Autosomal DNA is useless

[Atlantid]

A lot of threads pop up with people showing their ancestry by percentages through autosomal DNA, and I can't understand how they don't do their research first.

A lot of these companies are blatant scams, autosomal DNA is in no way accurately traceable and this is common knowledge to people in the scientific community. It is a blatant cash grab.


If you want to know your ancestry the only way is through Y DNA and mtDNA.

EDIT: After some of the replies, it's important to clarify that there are branches within the same name of Y DNA and mtDNA which differ greatly. An African with "European" haplgroups, will have the monolithic, unevoled versions - these are not European.

Both Y and mtDNA are extremely specific to a region when expressed in their full versions. An example of haplogroup R1b:

93924

[FinalFlash]

A lot of threads pop up with people showing their ancestry by percentages through autosomal DNA, and I can't understand how they don't do their research first.

A lot of these companies are blatant scams, autosomal DNA is in no way accurately traceable and this is common knowledge to people in the scientific community. It is a blatant cash grab.


If you want to know your ancestry the only way is through Y DNA and mtDNA.

They only trace your ancestry back a few hundred years. None of this was ever an exact science anyway.

[Daos777]

A lot of threads pop up with people showing their ancestry by percentages through autosomal DNA, and I can't understand how they don't do their research first.

A lot of these companies are blatant scams, autosomal DNA is in no way accurately traceable and this is common knowledge to people in the scientific community. It is a blatant cash grab.


If you want to know your ancestry the only way is through Y DNA and mtDNA.

So saying this are you willing to accept r1b Chadic people into your country because they have european Y-DNA? Because we all know it’s not what you say that shows your convictions in life but what you do. So help your R1b bros out.

[dududud]

Show me your ass.

[Rædwald]

Someone is upset

[Atlantid]

So saying this are you willing to accept r1b Chadic people into your country because they have european Y-DNA? Because we all know it’s not what you say that shows your convictions in life but what you do. So help your R1b bros out.

Of course not, a White person will have a European Y DNA and mtDNA. Say R1b and H, or I1 and J.

[Daos777]

Of course not, a White person will have a European Y DNA and mtDNA. Say R1b and H, or I1 and J.

But I mean you’re all about Y-DNA and mtDNA so it wouldn’t make sense to keep them out completely if they have european Y-DNA in this case the only solution is to allow them to stay 6 months out of the year. Because according to you your ancestry is nothing but Y and mtDNA so they have that claim on Europe.


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[Atlantid]

But I mean you’re all about Y-DNA and mtDNA so it wouldn’t make sense to keep them out completely if they have european Y-DNA in this case the only solution is to allow them to stay 6 months out of the year. Because according to you your ancestry is nothing but Y and mtDNA so they have that claim on Europe.


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https://myfamilyhistoryresearch.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/tree.jpg

Only the more evolved mtDNA's at the very bottom are European.

Y DNA and mtDNA are the only things that can prove our distance from other races. If you look at this image L is Black SSA and the least evolved - the left side is Asian - and only the most refined and evolved is European.

[nittionia]

this means i am albanian
ill have to start doing things a little differently around here

[Daos777]

this means i am albanian
ill have to start doing things a little differently around here

You will have to buy hijab and wear it while browsing TA or Allah will punish you with hairy back


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[Daos777]

https://myfamilyhistoryresearch.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/tree.jpg

Only the more evolved mtDNA's at the very bottom are European.

Y DNA and mtDNA are the only things that can prove our distance from other races. If you look at this image L is Black and the least evolved - the left side is Asian - and only the most refined and evolved is European.

How far back can we go in Y-DNA? The most european Y dna Haplo I separated from IJ like 25,000 years ago should we allow their J cousins into Europe?


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[WhatsGoingOnBigGuy]

Of course not, a White person will have a European Y DNA and mtDNA. Say R1b and H, or I1 and J.

By this logic someone can have a non-European paternal grandmother and a non-European maternal grandfather and still be considered white so long as they have the proper haplogroups? Lmao.

[Atlantid]

How far back can we go in Y-DNA? The most european Y dna Haplo I separated from IJ like 25,000 years ago should we allow their J cousins into Europe?


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Many Europeans carry haplogroup J.

There are studies that suggest intelligence is carried in the mtDNA because it's the power cell. I think that's the more important one, but having both is the safest bet.

[Atlantid]

By this logic someone can have a non-European paternal grandmother and a non-European maternal grandfather and still be considered white so long as they have the proper haplogroups? Lmao.

No, there is recombination. You'll be able to see the mutation.

[Samnium]

People take far to seriously these tests I think. Technology is still quite "primitive" in that regards, companies have a very tough time to identify ancestries in populations that are already a mixture of populations that were mixed as well themselves. You can still use your DNA file but what's important to know is that companies choose what alleles they will use as "genetical markers". So this can surely vary and lead to different results.

Think that the first DNA tests for criminal use where developed only 25 years ago.

[Lemgrant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMGpXIj8Xw

[marco]

You can’t because my Y dna is Jewish

[Daos777]

Many Europeans carry haplogroup J.

There are studies that suggest intelligence is carried in the mtDNA because it's the power cell. I think that's the more important one, but having both is the safest bet.

There has to be something outside of mtDNA affecting your intellect. Otherwise all siblings would have EXACTLY the same IQ.

[marco]

[QUOTE=Daos777;6408359]There has to be something outside of mtDNA affecting your intellect. Otherwise all siblings would have EXACTLY the same IQ.[/QUOTE
LOL

[TheMaestro]

Someone is upset

I'm upset
Fifty thousand on my head, it's disrespect
So offended that I had to double check
I'ma always take the money over sex
That's why they need me out the way
What you expect?

[Atlantid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMGpXIj8Xw

What part of both did you not get?

E is found in Europe.

[Atlantid]

There has to be something outside of mtDNA affecting your intellect. Otherwise all siblings would have EXACTLY the same IQ.

Siblings do have similar IQs, the difference is often minimal. There are studies of twins separated at birth that show them to be remarkably similar as well.

[Daos777]

Siblings do have similar IQs.

Similar, but what causes the difference? Sometimes it’s as great as 10 points

[Daos777]

[QUOTE=Daos777;6408359]There has to be something outside of mtDNA affecting your intellect. Otherwise all siblings would have EXACTLY the same IQ.[/QUOTE
LOL

There just has to be something I know it


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[celticdragongod]

A lot of threads pop up with people showing their ancestry by percentages through autosomal DNA, and I can't understand how they don't do their research first.

A lot of these companies are blatant scams, autosomal DNA is in no way accurately traceable and this is common knowledge to people in the scientific community. It is a blatant cash grab.


If you want to know your ancestry the only way is through Y DNA and mtDNA.

Y-DNA and mtDNA only cover a small part of the human genome so they don't tell you very much about your ancestry.

[Atlantid]

[QUOTE=marco;6408365]

There just has to be something I know it


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Maybe the mother's nutrition when you're in the womb.

[Atlantid]

Y-DNA and mtDNA only cover a small part of the human genome so they don't tell you very much about your ancestry.

It's the most important part though. Testosterone is passed through the Y and intelligence through the mtDNA.

[Daos777]

[QUOTE=Daos777;6408385]

Maybe the mother's nutrition when you're in the womb.

Wait so why is my H mtDNA classmate way smarter than me when we have the same mtDNA. I admit I jerked off a lot when I was growing up but it shouldn’t have affected me so severely


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[Daos777]

It's the most important part though. Testosterone is passed through the Y and intelligence through the mtDNA.

Actually that’s bs genes for testosterone production comes from both mama and papa, and mama is VERY important because she determines how much you’re exposed to T in the womb which has an overarching effect on almost every trait you have.

[celticdragongod]

Of course not, a White person will have a European Y DNA and mtDNA. Say R1b and H, or I1 and J.

There are plenty of African American men with R1b. Would you say they are European?

[Daos777]

There are plenty of African American men with R1b. Would you say they are European?

Clearly he said the mtDNA has to be white as well. So is that R1b black dude bangs a white chick and they have a kid he will be fully european


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[Lemgrant]

Clearly he said the mtDNA has to be white as well. So is that R1b black dude bangs a white chick and they have a kid he will be fully european


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:rotfl

[Atlantid]

Actually that’s bs genes for testosterone production comes from both mama and papa, and mama is VERY important because she determines how much you’re exposed to T in the womb which has an overarching effect on almost every trait you have.

No, that's not right, masculine fathers have masculine sons. The mother plays no part, testosterone in the womb is synthesized within the fetus.

[Atlantid]

Clearly he said the mtDNA has to be white as well. So is that R1b black dude bangs a white chick and they have a kid he will be fully european


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For a Black guy to have a European R1b he has to have had a very recent White ancestor. Y DNA recombines a little every time it's passed down.

This results in distinct branches of R1b, the African one is of a different branch than the European ones.

93923


The African R1b is archaic and unevolved, you can see it at the top right, it's Mesolithic, while the European one evolved in the Bronze Age.

[Dick]

Actually that’s bs genes for testosterone production comes from both mama and papa, and mama is VERY important because she determines how much you’re exposed to T in the womb which has an overarching effect on almost every trait you have.

Genes play more of a role. rising levels of Testosterone happens during puberty, only your sex is determined in the womb.

[Daos777]

No, that's not right, masculine fathers have masculine sons. The mother plays no part, testosterone in the womb is synthesized within the fetus.

Then why are some women more masculine than others when they lack Y chromosome? It’s because the mothers own testosterone level also has an effect on the developing uterus and not just the uterus producing the T.


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[Dick]

No, that's not right, masculine fathers have masculine sons. The mother plays no part, testosterone in the womb is synthesized within the fetus.

This. My mom was a petite 5'5 woman when she had me meanwhile my dad was a Chadoid and still is at an old age(He's never had a "dad bod" the man's built like a tank) I ended up having his exact build and deep voice except i'm taller than him by a few inches.

[Östsvensk]

I think I smell that someone didn't like their results. :D

[Atlantid]

Genes play more of a role. rising levels of Testosterone happens during puberty, only your sex is determined in the womb.

Even in the womb it's the fetus that produces it. The genes in the fetus activate it.

[Atlantid]

This. My mom was a petite 5'5 woman when she had me meanwhile my dad was a Chadoid and still is at an old age(He's never had a "dad bod" the man's built like a tank) I ended up having his exact build and deep voice except i'm taller than him by a few inches.

Yes, this has been studied extensively, testosterone is passed from father to son in the Y DNA.

[Dick]

Even in the womb it's the fetus that produces it. The genes in the fetus activate it.

yeah but when it really rises is during puberty of course, again a mixture of genetics and puberty

[Atlantid]

Then why are some women more masculine than others when they lack Y chromosome? It’s because the mothers own testosterone level also has an effect on the developing uterus and not just the uterus producing the T.


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No, women produce testosterone too, but the womb is never affected by the mothers hormones, it's the fetus that produces the hormones which then surround the womb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_testosterone_transfer

Only if the girl had a male twin would a transfer of testosterone happen in the womb, or it could be residual from an older brother.

[Dick]

Yes, this has been studied extensively, testosterone is passed from father to son in the Y DNA.

Probably true. My grandfather was the same. The man was ripped and muscular even in his 60s before he past away.

[Daos777]

No, women produce testosterone too, but the womb is never affected by the mothers hormones, it's the fetus that produces the hormones which then surround the womb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_testosterone_transfer

Only if the girl had a male twin would a transfer of testosterone happen in the womb, or it could be residual from an older brother.

So your claim is that your mothers genes play 0 role on your testosterone production as a male?

[Atlantid]

So your claim is that your mothers genes play 0 role on your testosterone production as a male?

It's not my claim it's the consensus. A healthier mother only allows for the full expression of the masculine genes in the womb, but she doesn't alter them.

95% of the Y DNA passes from father to son unchanged.

[Daos777]

It's not my claim it's the consensus. A healthier mother only allows for the full expression of the masculine genes in the womb, but she doesn't alter them.

95% of the Y DNA passes from father to son unchanged.

What consensus lmao the one you made up? Post studies

For example

“An international collaboration of researchers from 10 independent regions combined data of 14,429 Caucasian men and found that genetic variants at the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) gene and on the X chromosome are linked to a higher risk of low testosterone levels. The study was co-led by the University of Gothenburg and the University of Greifswald. “

The gene for the hormone SHBG is on the X chromosome. This gene is ridiculously important for free testosterone concentrations as the more of it you have the more testosterone will be locked up. This is just one. I can post hundreds I actually researched this topic but I’m too busy playing call of duty.


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[Atlantid]

What consensus lmao the one you made up? Post studies

For example

“An international collaboration of researchers from 10 independent regions combined data of 14,429 Caucasian men and found that genetic variants at the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) gene and on the X chromosome are linked to a higher risk of low testosterone levels. The study was co-led by the University of Gothenburg and the University of Greifswald. “

The gene for the hormone SHBG is on the X chromosome. This gene is ridiculously important for free testosterone concentrations as the more of it you have the more testosterone will be locked up. This is just one. I can post hundreds I actually researched this topic but I’m too busy playing call of duty.


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The Y chromosome is what masculinizes, you're a man solely because of that chromosome, if it was an X you'd be a female. I don't need to pull up any studies, this is too obvious to debate.

There are a lot of dubious studies like this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658794/ because of the tranny agenda. So a man can really be a woman even if he has the Y chromosome... Right? You need to read between the lines and make you own conclusions with any government study.

[Daos777]

The Y chromosome is what masculinizes, you're a man solely because of that chromosome, if it was an X you'd be a female. I don't need to pull up any studies, this is too obvious to debate.

That’s not what we’re talking about though. You said that your mothers genes play minimal effect on your testosterone production and that’s not true there are multiple genes that your mom passes on to you which either make you more masculine or feminine. It’s obvious that your Y-DNA determines sex. But males with the same fucking Y-DNA can differ wildly in their masculinity. Meaning there are other factors than your Y-DNA like autosomal dna which you don’t believe in and your mothers X dna carries a huge amount of information on it compared to Y-DNA.

[Atlantid]

That’s not what we’re talking about though. You said that your mothers genes play minimal effect on your testosterone production and that’s not true there are multiple genes that your mom passes on to you which either make you more masculine or feminine. It’s obvious that your Y-DNA determines sex. But males with the same fucking Y-DNA can differ wildly in their masculinity. Meaning there are other factors than your Y-DNA like autosomal dna which you don’t believe in and your mothers X dna carries a huge amount of information on it compared to Y-DNA.

https://news.st-andrews.ac.uk/archive/like-father-like-son/

This study is very straight forward, much more than all the government funded, convoluted, agenda driven 'science'.

“We checked to see if male and female facial traits are inherited. For the male line, we find that facial masculinity conforms to the rule ‘like father like son’: masculine dads have masculine sons."

[Daos777]

https://news.st-andrews.ac.uk/archive/like-father-like-son/

This study is very straight forward, much more than all the government funded, convoluted, agenda driven 'science'.

“We checked to see if male and female facial traits are inherited. For the male line, we find that facial masculinity conforms to the rule ‘like father like son’: masculine dads have masculine sons."

I’m not in disagreement with this tho, you do get a huge amount of DNA that determines testosterone production from your father as well. ALL IM SAYING is that mothers genes play a HUGE role in this as well. There is no way it doesn’t. The X chromosome is huge compared to Y chromosome and it contains wayyyy more genetic info.



Also, their own conclusions in that article is blue pill bullshit lmao.


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[SUPREEEEEME]

Of course not, a White person will have a European Y DNA and mtDNA. Say R1b and H, or I1 and J.

In my opinion, very few subclades of J (if any) can be classified as European. J (both J1 and J2) is more often associated with the Middle East than Europe.

EDIT: Unless I'm misinterpreting your comment, and you mean Mt-DNA J (and not Y-DNA J)?

[Trouble]

Yeah so forget the 99.999999999999999% of your ancestry and just go with the totally arbitrary indications of a singular lineage on both your mother and father's side. Sounds very smart. Based on that information, my father is a central asian Turk while I'm a Tajik.

Yes, these companies are shit, so what? Technology will develop and anyone who is not a complete moron can learn enough to determine what kind of mixture they have. On the whole, autosomal ancestry is way more important than haplogroups. Both in functionality(as in what traits you inherit) as well as which populations you are closest to genetically.

[Smeagol]

A mulatto with a white father will have a European Y-DNA. Are they white?

[Östsvensk]

A mulatto with a white father will have a European Y-DNA. Are they white?

No, he thinks that they must have both European Y-DNA and mtDNA. So if a Jamaican, Haitian or African-American with European R1b bangs a white chick, then the kid is a native white European according to his logic.

[Grace O'Malley]

So saying this are you willing to accept r1b Chadic people into your country because they have european Y-DNA? Because we all know it’s not what you say that shows your convictions in life but what you do. So help your R1b bros out.

They are V88 and not M269. It branched off very early as in well over 10,000 years ago. I don't think you can call R1b "European" but some subclades definitely are. I'd really like to see L51 in some ancient samples as it will be a big factor in determining the origin of most European R1b.

https://images.gr-assets.com/photos/1460663756p8/1421409.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

A lot of threads pop up with people showing their ancestry by percentages through autosomal DNA, and I can't understand how they don't do their research first.

A lot of these companies are blatant scams, autosomal DNA is in no way accurately traceable and this is common knowledge to people in the scientific community. It is a blatant cash grab.


If you want to know your ancestry the only way is through Y DNA and mtDNA.

EDIT: After some of the replies, it's important to clarify that there are branches within the same name of Y DNA and mtDNA which differ greatly. An African with "European" haplgroups, will have the monolithic, unevoled versions - these are not European.

Both Y and mtDNA are extremely specific to a region when expressed in their full versions. An example of haplogroup R1b:

93924

I disagree. DNA has been hugely important in looking at historical migrations and also you can get a fairly accurate idea of the nationality of someone by their dna and where they cluster. Look at how dna has been revolutionary in looking at ancient migrations of Europe and elsewhere. Who would have known about the impact of Bronze Age migrations without dna? It's absolutely brilliant and I'm looking forward to more studies. Isn't it something that they can extract dna from these ancient genomes?

Some smaller dna companies that try to predict specific regions to a very fine scale are a bit scammy but most dna companies do get the majority of people's ancestry composition correct. I do see results getting more refined with new technology and larger databases though. Ancestry are really good with people Genetic Communities as an example of this.

[Grace O'Malley]

It's the most important part though. Testosterone is passed through the Y and intelligence through the mtDNA.

The most important part is obviously autosomal dna which makes up nearly all you dna. ydna and mtdna are a tiny fraction of your dna. If you look at ethnicities for example you will have different ydna and mtdna but their autosomal dna is what makes them cluster together and what makes them the same ethnicity.

[Adamm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMGpXIj8Xw

Oldest E-M215 fossile was found in Morocco if I'm not mistaken, so it would make more sense that it came from North Africa instead of East Africa.

[Östsvensk]

Haplogroups generally follow a pattern along with autosomal DNA. There are exceptions where there was population replacement and haplogroups remained. An example would be the Lithuanians. They have a lot of "Asian" haplogroup N1c, but virtually zero Mongoloid ancestry autosomally. If we follow the logic of the OP, the South Saami who have Swedish paternal ancestry in Y-DNA and European mtDNA would be whiter than the Lithuanians. Even though South Saamis are autosomally 5-10% Mongoloid.

[Atlantid]

The most important part is obviously autosomal dna which makes up nearly all you dna. ydna and mtdna are a tiny fraction of your dna. If you look at ethnicities for example you will have different ydna and mtdna but their autosomal dna is what makes them cluster together and what makes them the same ethnicity.

The mtDNA is the power cell though, it's extremely important.

[Atlantid]

Haplogroups generally follow a pattern along with autosomal DNA. There are exceptions where there was population replacement and haplogroups remained. An example would be the Lithuanians. They have a lot of "Asian" haplogroup N1c, but virtually zero Mongoloid ancestry autosomally. If we follow the logic of the OP, the South Saami who have Swedish paternal ancestry in Y-DNA and European mtDNA would be whiter than the Lithuanians. Even though South Saamis are autosomally 5-10% Mongoloid.

Exactly, it won't change much for most people, only they are actually reliably traceable to a location. Autosomal DNA is not, it's too large and these companies don't know which parts to use. It's a complete mess.

Y DNA and mtDNA is also what influences how you look the most, if you're a man the Y is what makes you like your father, and the power cell mtDNA is what makes you intelligent or not. These are crucial bits of information.

[Atlantid]

Yeah so forget the 99.999999999999999% of your ancestry and just go with the totally arbitrary indications of a singular lineage on both your mother and father's side. Sounds very smart. Based on that information, my father is a central asian Turk while I'm a Tajik.

Yes, these companies are shit, so what? Technology will develop and anyone who is not a complete moron can learn enough to determine what kind of mixture they have. On the whole, autosomal ancestry is way more important than haplogroups. Both in functionality(as in what traits you inherit) as well as which populations you are closest to genetically.

No, because it's not traceable, it's hogwash. The autosomal DNA contains all the basic information, that's what you share with chimpanzees.

[Östsvensk]

Exactly, it won't change much for most people, only they are actually reliably traceable to a location. Autosomal DNA is not, it's too large and these companies don't know which parts to use. It's a complete mess.

Y DNA and mtDNA is also what influences how you look the most, if you're a man the Y is what makes you like your father, and the power cell mtDNA is what makes you intelligent or not. These are crucial bits of information.

So do Chadians and Brits look that different from each other simply because one of them are R1b V88 and the other are R1b M269?

[Smeagol]

Any sources to back any of this up?

[Grace O'Malley]

The mtDNA is the power cell though, it's extremely important.

We are talking about genetically though. Mtdna is a tiny fraction of your genetics. Mtdna mutates very slowly so while I'm Irish people of all sorts of different ethnicities can have the same mtdna as myself. I have someone from the Russian Federation who has only a one-step difference to my mtdna but that person wouldn't cluster anywhere near me. My paternal ydna is Irish/Scots though but my cousins would have a different ydna unless they were the children from the male paternal line in the family. Autosomal dna is the most important although ydna is very interesting if you are wanting to look back further in time.

[Atlantid]

So do Chadians and Brits look that different from each other simply because one of them are R1b V88 and the other are R1b M269?

African R1b is Mesolithic, that's 8000bce. European one is Middle Bronze Age 1500bce.

That's 6500 years of evolution in a vastly different climate.

[Atlantid]

We are talking about genetically though. Mtdna is a tiny fraction of your genetics. Mtdna mutates very slowly so while I'm Irish people of all sorts of different ethnicities can have the same mtdna as myself. I have someone from the Russian Federation who has only a one-step difference to my mtdna but that person wouldn't cluster anywhere near me. My paternal ydna is Irish/Scots though but my cousins would have a different ydna unless they were the children from the male paternal line in the family. Autosomal dna is the most important although ydna is very interesting if you are wanting to look back further in time.

No because it's very specific to a location when fully expressed. Look at all the branches of Y and mtDNA and you'll see that it gets very specific to regions.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

[Östsvensk]

African R1b is Mesolithic, that's 8000bce. European one is Middle Bronze Age 1500bce.

That's 6500 years of evolution in a vastly different climate.

They are both categorised as R1b, but ok. There are also Indians who have R1a-Z93, just like Poles, and the same mtDNA U. Do those two look the same?

[Grace O'Malley]

No because it's very specific to a location when fully expressed. Look at all the branches of Y and mtDNA and you'll see that it gets very specific to regions.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

R1b-L21 is not very specific other than being generally European. You have to get tested to find your terminal subclade to get more specific and closer to your ancestral origins. What I'm trying to explain to you though is that it is a tiny fraction of your dna. Your autosomal dna is what shows your ethnicity. R1b-L21 for instance is 4,000 years old and people of different ethnicities can have R1b-L21. It is most common though in Northwestern Europe but didn't originate there. I'm still waiting for L21 to turn up in some ancient genomes outside of the Isles. The oldest L21 is from British Bell Beakers so far.

[Atlantid]

They are both categorised as R1b, but ok. There are also Indians who have R1a-Z93, just like Poles, and the same mtDNA U. Do those two look the same?

R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) is Asian.

[Atlantid]

R1b-L21 is not very specific other than being generally European. You have to get tested to find your terminal subclade to get more specific and closer to your ancestral origins. What I'm trying to explain to you though is that it is a tiny fraction of your dna. Your autosomal dna is what shows your ethnicity. R1b-L21 for instance is 4,000 years old and people of different ethnicities can have R1b-L21. It is most common though in Northwestern Europe but didn't originate there. I'm still waiting for L21 to turn up in some ancient genomes outside of the Isles. The oldest L21 is from British Bell Beakers so far.

\https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/R1b1a2a1a1b4_en_Europe.jpg

R1b-L21 is Northwestern European, very likely Celtic, that's more specific than any autosomal DNA can give you. You have to understand that these companies don't know what they're doing, the autosomal DNA is huge and it's only reliable to tell a recent relative up to 2nd cousin, nothing more.

[Hajimurad]

A lot of threads pop up with people showing their ancestry by percentages through autosomal DNA, and I can't understand how they don't do their research first.

A lot of these companies are blatant scams, autosomal DNA is in no way accurately traceable and this is common knowledge to people in the scientific community. It is a blatant cash grab.


If you want to know your ancestry the only way is through Y DNA and mtDNA.

EDIT: After some of the replies, it's important to clarify that there are branches within the same name of Y DNA and mtDNA which differ greatly. An African with "European" haplgroups, will have the monolithic, unevoled versions - these are not European.

Both Y and mtDNA are extremely specific to a region when expressed in their full versions. An example of haplogroup R1b:

93924

Totally agree. Y-DNA and MtDNA clearly show your origin and your nearest relatives.

[Östsvensk]

R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) is Asian.

I said that they could both carry it, and didn't mention anything about how it was labelled. According to what you are saying, Europeans should overlap in looks with Indians because they can carry the same haplogroups and autosomal DNA is useless.


In comparison, there are only 12 European R1a individuals in the 1000 Genomes sample, and they represent all the major subclades of this haplogroup: R1a-Z283, R1a-Z93 and R1a-L664. Therefore, sampling bias can't be used as an argument for the more diverse result from Europe.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/05/south-asian-r1a-in-1000-genomes-project_15.html?m=1


Haplogroup U is found in 15% of Indian caste and 8% of Indian tribal populations.[10] Haplogroup U is found in approximately 11% of native Europeans and is held as the oldest maternal haplogroup found in that region.[10][11][12] In a 2013 study, all but one of the ancient modern human sequences from Europe belonged to maternal haplogroup U, thus confirming previous findings that haplogroup U was the dominant type of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in Europe before the spread of agriculture into Europe and the presence and the spread of the Indo-Europeans in Western Europe.[13][14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA)

Thus a European and an Indian who are both R1a and mtDNA U look the same.

[Grace O'Malley]

\https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/R1b1a2a1a1b4_en_Europe.jpg

R1b-L21 is Northwestern European, very likely Celtic, that's more specific than any autosomal DNA can give you. You have to understand that these companies don't know what they're doing, the autosomal DNA is huge and it's only reliable to tell a recent relative up to 2nd cousin, nothing more.

It's Bell Beaker. I doubt it's specifically Celtic. The Hallstatt genome for example was U152 and the Italics in the Roman study had some U152.

I think this map is better.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/af/33/5caf33dbc15d0751c3b59db59cdf8226.jpg

What is interesting though is that so far no ancient genomes other than the British Beakers have been found to be L21. The two Rathlins were also L21. It will be found in ancient genomes elsewhere though. Hopefully it will turn up in the French study that is coming out in March.

[Atlantid]

I said that they could both carry it, and didn't mention anything about how it was labelled. According to what you are saying, Europeans should overlap in looks with Indians because they can carry the same haplogroups and autosomal DNA is useless.


http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/05/south-asian-r1a-in-1000-genomes-project_15.html?m=1


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA)

Thus a European and an Indian who are both R1a and mtDNA U look the same.

It's not the same U, there are variants, and R-Z93 also has sub variants that distinguish the Asian version from the European.

There is no flaw, my conclusion is perfect, only through Y DNA and mtDNA can you properly trace your ancestry. All DNA originated in Africa and it's through evolution that we are born - we are evolved Blacks. Having the same letter as them or as Indians changes nothing, we have the evolved version.

[Östsvensk]

It's not the same U, there are variants, and R-Z93 also has sub variants that distinguish the Asian version from the European.

There is no flaw, my conclusion is perfect, only through Y DNA and mtDNA can you properly trace your ancestry. All DNA originated in Africa and it's through evolution that we are born - we are evolved Blacks. Having the same letter as them or as Indians changes nothing, we have the evolved version.

No, you claimed that it is a person's Y-DNA haplogroup that produces their phenotypes. How do women who don't even have Y-DNA get their phenotypes?

Furthermore, that doesn't explain why Southwestern Finland is more N1c and was traditionally also more Nordid than regions in the country that have more Y-DNA I1.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tuuli_Lappalainen/publication/47933595/figure/fig14/AS:668828560277509@1536472563282/The-frequencies-of-the-most-common-Y-chromosomal-haplogroups-in-nine-Finnish-provinces.jpg


The haplogroup reaches its peak frequencies in Sweden (52 percent of males in Västra Götaland County) and western Finland (more than 50 percent in Satakunta province).[7] In terms of national averages, I-M253 is found in 35–38 per cent of Swedish males,[8] 32.8% of Danish males,[9] about 31.5% of Norwegian males,[10] and about 28% of Finnish males.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253

Finland Proper (Southwest Finland):


*Varsinais-Suomi (male) Finnish speakers (FI)*
A.O.Arho - Anthropologische Untersuchungen in den Landschaften Åland und Varsinais-Suomi (Helsinki, 1934)

Height (cm) 171.68 (150.4-193.5)
Head lenght 194.18 (177-209)
Head breadth 153.46 (141-168)
Minimum frontal breadth 111.32 (92-126)
Bizygomatic diameter 140.5 (118-157)
Bigonial diameter 110.11 (95-141)
Total facial height 131.75 (102-160)
Upper facial height
Nasal height 53.50 (38-69)
Nasal breadth 35.27 (28-44)
Biorbital Width
Interorbital Width 32.67 (24-40)
Cephalic index 79.108 (71.50-89.83)
Facial index 93.875 (71.83-115.25)
Upper facial index
Nasal index 66.632 (49.15-93.02)

Satakunta:


*Satakunta (male)*
Niilo Pesonen, Anthropologische Untersuchungen an Bewohnern der Landschaft Satakunta (Helsinki, 1935)

Height (cm) 170.79 (151.3-188.7)
Head lenght 191.12 (171-211)
Head breadth 153.60 (139-169)
Minimum frontal breadth 112.09 (98-130)
Bizygomatic diameter 141.63 (122-157)
Bigonial diameter 111.08 (94-128)
Total facial height 126.93 (106-155)
Upper facial height
Nasal height 57.65 (41-74)
Nasal breadth 35.32 (26-52)
Biorbital Width
Interorbital Width 32.14 (23-49)
Cephalic index 80.478 (71.50-94.15)
Facial index 89.728 (72.39-111.38)
Upper facial index
Nasal index 62.028 (40.63-93.33)
B.H.I 86.343 (66.67-102.07)
H.L.I 69.421 (52.91-81.29)
http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2007/09/finland-by-region-anthropometric.html?m=1

Ola Toivonen, who has an Eastern Finnish name from his immigrant father, is most likely N1c and therefore should look East Baltic. Does he?

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1012281942136578049/kIyMGNDD_400x400.jpg

[Atlantid]

No, you claimed that it is a person's Y-DNA haplogroup that produces their phenotypes. How do women who don't even have Y-DNA get their phenotypes?

Furthermore, that doesn't explain why Southwestern Finland is more N1c and was traditionally also more Nordid than regions in the country that have more Y-DNA I1.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tuuli_Lappalainen/publication/47933595/figure/fig14/AS:668828560277509@1536472563282/The-frequencies-of-the-most-common-Y-chromosomal-haplogroups-in-nine-Finnish-provinces.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253

Finland Proper (Southwest Finland):



Satakunta:


http://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2007/09/finland-by-region-anthropometric.html?m=1

Ola Toivonen, who has an Eastern Finnish name from his immigrant father, is most likely N1c and therefore should look East Baltic. Does he?

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1012281942136578049/kIyMGNDD_400x400.jpg

It's both the Y and the mtDNA that produce the phenotype.

If the Y determines testosterone then it's hugely important to phenotype. If the mtDNA intelligence, then it will also have a huge effect in the progressive features of the face.

You don't know if Toivonen has N1c to begin with, but it doesn't really matter, the version in Finland has thousands of years of separate evolution.

93945

[Östsvensk]

It's both the Y and the mtDNA that produce the phenotype.

If the Y determines testosterone then it's hugely important to phenotype. If the mtDNA intelligence, then it will also have a huge effect in the progressive features of the face.

You don't know if Toivonen has N1c to begin with, but it doesn't really matter, the version in Finland has thousands of years of separate evolution.

93945

You wrote:


Y DNA and mtDNA is also what influences how you look the most, if you're a man the Y is what makes you like your father, and the power cell mtDNA is what makes you intelligent or not. These are crucial bits of information.

No, I don't know it for certain. Only that it is about 80% likely to be N1c if his father was from Eastern Finland. That doesn't matter since Southwest Finns were predominantly Nordids without I1 and Satakunta had more I1 and more brachycephalics. So there are evidently East Baltics with I1 in Finland.

[Voyt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M



poor hitler, if he wasn't lied to like that by his incompetent cabinet he wouldntahav kild imself

[Samnium]

Exactly, it won't change much for most people, only they are actually reliably traceable to a location. Autosomal DNA is not, it's too large and these companies don't know which parts to use. It's a complete mess.

Y DNA and mtDNA is also what influences how you look the most, if you're a man the Y is what makes you like your father, and the power cell mtDNA is what makes you intelligent or not. These are crucial bits of information.

It's exactly what I've said.

Companies have to choose which part of the DNA to test and to select genetical "markers". I can add also the probleme of the population references.

[Daos777]

It's exactly what I've said.

Companies have to choose which part of the DNA to test and to select genetical "markers". I can add also the probleme of the population references.

Why is that a huge problem exactly if done correctly?

[Atlantid]

You wrote:



No, I don't know it for certain. Only that it is about 80% likely to be N1c if his father was from Eastern Finland. That doesn't matter since Southwest Finns were predominantly Nordids without I1 and Satakunta had more I1 and more brachycephalics. So there are evidently East Baltics with I1 in Finland.

You have nothing to worry Finns are highly evolved people.

[Atlantid]

Why is that a huge problem exactly if done correctly?

It can't be done correctly, only up to 2nd cousins can autosomal DNA be accurate.

It really is pseudo science to link two people to a place with autosomal DNA, these companies are scammers.

[Daos777]

It can't be done correctly, only up to 2nd cousins can autosomal DNA be accurate.

It really is pseudo science to link two people to a place with autosomal DNA, these companies are scammers.

What are you talking about? Then why do people of the same ethnicity cluster together? Why are their 23 and me results almost the same? If you give me your raw dna file I can find out more about you then if you just state your Y and mtDNA. This is getting to troll level ridiculousness. You trolling me boy?

[Atlantid]

What are you talking about? Then why do people of the same ethnicity cluster together? Why are their 23 and me results almost the same? If you give me your raw dna file I can find out more about you then if you just state your Y and mtDNA. This is getting to troll level ridiculousness. You trolling me boy?

Cluster together? The regions they name are large and pretty random. Y and mtDNA go in much more specific to actual countries, not these hogwash regions.

[JamesBond007]

It's both the Y and the mtDNA that produce the phenotype.

If the Y determines testosterone then it's hugely important to phenotype. If the mtDNA intelligence, then it will also have a huge effect in the progressive features of the face.

You don't know if Toivonen has N1c to begin with, but it doesn't really matter, the version in Finland has thousands of years of separate evolution.

93945

I think it is true you get your intelligence from MtDNA. The German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said, before DNA was discovered, that you inherit your intelligence from your mother and your character from your father. I am lucky my mother has two Masters degrees from college !

[Atlantid]

I think it is true you get your intelligence from MtDNA. The German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said, before DNA was discovered, that you inherit your intelligence from your mother and your character from your father. I am lucky my mother has two Masters degrees from college !

Same here.

[Voyt]

I think it is true you get your intelligence from MtDNA. The German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said, before DNA was discovered, that you inherit your intelligence from your mother and your character from your father. I am lucky my mother has two Masters degrees from college !

which are the most intelligent mtDNAs den

[Atlantid]

which are the most intelligent mtDNAs den

Highly evolved ones.

[Adamm]

Y-DNA is much more important in order to understand your historical lineage, you can be per example 100% European but maybe through your paternal line you can discover that you were a few hundred years ago 100% black and thus in this situation you are not allowed in my opinion to take credit for centuries long of your European heritage, why? Well your paternal line was not part of that heritage/history.

[Daos777]

I don’t understand why I don’t look iberomaurusian considering my Y-DNA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Atlantid]

I don’t understand why I don’t look iberomaurusian considering my Y-DNA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What is your Y DNA? 93965

Most importantly what is your mtDNA H what?

[Token]

Yes, Afro-Americans are actually Anglo-Saxons painted black.
OP is probably in denial with his results.

[Atlantid]

Yes, Afro-Americans are actually Anglo-Saxons painted black.
OP is probably in denial with his results.

I would never give money to scammers bud, you're the sucker.

Y DNA and mtDNA are much more exact, that's the point of this thread, it does't change anything other than exactitude.

Autosomal DNA is a waste of money, save you money and pay for your Y and mtDNA's to know your exact ancestry.

[Smeagol]

Y-DNA is much more important in order to understand your historical lineage, you can be per example 100% European but maybe through your paternal line you can discover that you were a few hundred years ago 100% black and thus in this situation you are not allowed in my opinion to take credit for centuries long of your European heritage, why? Well your paternal line was not part of that heritage/history.

So you should identify with one ancestor from hundreds of years ago? And all the American blacks with European Y-DNA are really white and should only identify with their slave-master ancestor, right?

[Atlantid]

So you should identify with one ancestor from hundreds of years ago? And all the American blacks with European Y-DNA are really white and should only identify with their slave-master ancestor, right?

There are no Black Americans with European Y DNA unless their father is White.

Y DNA changes a bit every time it's passed down, there have been 7 generations since slavery, and the Y mixed in with Black DNA. It's no longer European, and it will show.

[Smeagol]

There are no Black Americans with European Y DNA unless their father is White.

So if their father is white they're white?


Y DNA changes a bit every time it's passed down, there have been 7 generations since slavery, and the Y mixed in with Black DNA. It's no longer European, and it will show.

If this is the case then Adamm's example still doesn't make sense as the Y-DNA of the person he described would have changed as well.

[Atlantid]

So if their father is white they're white?



If this is the case than Adamm's example still doesn't make sense as the Y-DNA of the person he described would have changed as well.

No because their mtDNA will be African.

Your second point is a good one, but it really depends on time. 95% of Y DNA is passed down untouched, so it will take quite a few generations of admixture for it to change significantly.

A purely European Y DNA and mtDNA will result in a White person, it's a certainty.

[Lemgrant]

No because their mtDNA will be African.

Your second point is a good one, but it really depends on time. 95% of Y DNA is passed down untouched, so it will take quite a few generations of admixture for it to change significantly.

A purely European Y DNA and mtDNA will result in a White person, it's a certainty.

No, a half black with white European father, that has white European wife, their kids will be 25% black autosomally despite their European haplogroups. Tell us what non-European admixture you got with your dna test and you are so frustrated.

[Daos777]

No, a half black with white European father, that has white European wife, their kids will be 25% black autosomally despite their European haplogroups. Tell us what non-European admixture you got with your dna test and you are so frustrated.

The mom can be half black too (black dad) and still the kid will get european mtDNA. So it’s even possible that the kid will be autosomally half black with european y and mtDNA.

[Yamnaya]

How long is I-f2642 branch? Im thinking about buying a kit but dont really know if its worth the price, as those tests are way more expensive than autosomal

[Adamm]

So you should identify with one ancestor from hundreds of years ago? And all the American blacks with European Y-DNA are really white and should only identify with their slave-master ancestor, right?

You should identity as you want, but when you talk about lineage you should take Y-DNA into consideration.

[Atlantid]

The mom can be half black too (black dad) and still the kid will get european mtDNA. So it’s even possible that the kid will be autosomally half black with european y and mtDNA.

Race mixing shouldn't be promoted, but if a man has a European Y and mtDNA he should have a lot of White characteristics. Your example is a rare one to begin with, there isn't that much race mixing for it to be a serious issue.


No, a half black with white European father, that has white European wife, their kids will be 25% black autosomally despite their European haplogroups. Tell us what non-European admixture you got with your dna test and you are so frustrated.

I haven't taken one, I'm calling out the scamming DNA companies. The whole autosomal scam was created for them to sell your data to pharmaceutical companies, they know they're full of shit.

[Daos777]

Race mixing shouldn't be promoted, but if a man has a European Y and mtDNA he should have a lot of White characteristics. Your example is a rare one to begin with, there isn't that much race mixing for it to be a serious issue.

In America there is. In fact I’m willing to bet this very scenario happened many times here.

[Atlantid]

In America there is. In fact I’m willing to bet this very scenario happened many times here.

The people that descend from that are probably 1% Black now. Either they stay within the Black community and remix into Blackness, or they integrate into the White community and dilute the African DNA into nothing. There is no in between, there is no quarter Black community in American society.