Are Germans dark or swarthy?

[Septentrion]

Do you consider Germans a dark-completed people (by European standards obviously) or not?

[nittionia]

no they're overall on the lighter end

[Teutone]

who cares

[Teutone]

Well I am 100% white, almost albino

https://i.imgur.com/5zZC0yw.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

no they're overall on the lighter end

Yes. They are blonder than Brits as a whole, while the proportion of olive-skinned people is about the same as Brits (around 5%).

[dperucca]

Depends on the region.

[Ranger0075]

who cares

Congratz man, serious

German is the first nationality who was not triggered in whiter threads

If it were about some places I wont name it would get 10 pages of discussion and shitposting jaja

[Tooting Carmen]

Depends on the region.

Even Bavarians are no darker than French people and certainly not comparable to any actual Southern European group.

[Voskos]

Can't really tell because the only time i visited germany i only saw turks.

[Septentrion]

who cares

If you don’t care then why are you on this thread?

[Septentrion]

Yes. They are blonder than Brits as a whole, while the proportion of olive-skinned people is about the same as Brits (around 5%).
Olive-skinned? What do you mean? Are you referring to skin phototypes or what’s this?

[Teutone]

If you don’t care then why are you on this thread?

to tell you that Germans dont care

[Tooting Carmen]

Olive-skinned? What do you mean? Are you referring to skin phototypes or what’s this?

Ulf Kirsten, swarthy German
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Ulf_Kirsten_2019.jpg

John Redwood, swarthy Brit
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Official_portrait_of_John_Redwood_crop_2.jpg/220px-Official_portrait_of_John_Redwood_crop_2.jpg

[Septentrion]

Even Bavarians are no darker than French people and certainly not comparable to any actual Southern European group.

I was just wondering, why are separating Bavarians from the main German groups, but you are not doing the same for the French. In both France and Germany, blondness increases from south to north. A group native from Perpignan in the very south will differ from one native to Nord - Pas -de - Calais.

[Tooting Carmen]

I was just wondering, why are separating Bavarians from the main German groups, but you are not doing the same for the French. In both France and Germany, blondness increases from south to north. A group native from Perpignan in the very south will differ from one native to Nord - Pas -de - Calais.

Northern France is on par with Britain and Germany in terms of (lack of) swarthiness, while they are on par with Britain and darker than Germany in terms of hair colour. Southern France is more-or-less on par with Northern Italy in terms of both hair colour and proportion of swarthy types.

[Septentrion]

to tell you that Germans dont care

So your point is? This thread was not made for Germans to care. It is a question!

[Teutone]

So your point is? This thread was not made for Germans to care. It is a question!

The terms swarthy doesnt exist here what does it even mean

[Dick]

Even Bavarians are no darker than French people and certainly not comparable to any actual Southern European group.

What about the German rugby team

[Tooting Carmen]

The terms swarthy doesnt exist here what does it even mean

Dark-skinned. Ethnic German examples include Mats Hummels, Kevin Volland, Joachim Low, Jonas Kaufmann, Ulf Kirsten, Hansi Muller, Joschka Fischer...

[Teutone]

Dark-skinned. Ethnic German examples include Mats Hummels, Kevin Volland, Joachim Low, Jonas Kaufmann, Ulf Kirsten, Hansi Muller, Joschka Fischer...

How is Mats Hummels dark skinned?

You anthroguys should worry about more important issues

Every sane German tries to get a tan

olive skin looks good

[Tooting Carmen]

Actually, looking at some less tanned photos of Hummels I could find, his skintone is more sallow than truly olive:
https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/GettyImages-1074427804-9c5e.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C429&ssl=1https://bulinews.com/i/640/1596.jpghttp://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Fsundaytimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F9c8e703 4-3368-11e8-8dfb-40a986c7e357.jpg?crop=1851%2C1041%2C243%2C36&resize=685

Nevertheless, he still looks more Southern European than many actual Southern Europeans.

[Tooting Carmen]

How is Mats Hummels dark skinned?

You anthroguys should worry about more important issues

Every sane German tries to get a tan

olive skin looks good

Then why are you so opposed to non-white immigration and race-mixing, if you actually want to look less white yourself? xD

[Septentrion]

Northern France is on par with Britain and Germany in terms of (lack of) swarthiness, while they are on par with Britain and darker than Germany in terms of hair colour. Southern France is more-or-less on par with Northern Italy in terms of both hair colour and proportion of swarthy types.

I think that you are definitely wrong in terms of hair colour. Firstly Northern France, although it is the lightest part of France it is not on par with Britain. Eastern France bordering Germany is not different from adjacent parts of Germany. Something you did not know, borders have changed over and over historically, depending who won wars. Germany is not lighter than Britain, by any means. Although we could say is that Northern Germany as a whole has a slightly higher frequency of blond hair than Britain.

[JamesBond007]

Do you consider Germans a dark-completed people (by European standards obviously) or not?

Not by European standards but they are by Anglo-Sphere standards :


Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind." --Benjamin Franklin




Benjamin Franklin FRS FRSA FRSE (January 17, 1706 [O.S. January 6, 1705][1] – April 17, 1790) was an American polymath and one of the Founding Fathers of the United States. Franklin was a leading writer, printer, political philosopher, politician, Freemason, postmaster, scientist, inventor, humorist, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat. As a scientist, he was a major figure in the American Enlightenment and the history of physics for his discoveries and theories regarding electricity. As an inventor, he is known for the lightning rod, bifocals, and the Franklin stove, among other inventions.[2] He founded many civic organizations, including the Library Company, Philadelphia's first fire department[3] and the University of Pennsylvania.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

[Tooting Carmen]

I think that you are definitely wrong in terms of hair colour. Firstly Northern France, although it is the lightest part of France it is not on par with Britain. Eastern France bordering Germany is not different from adjacent parts of Germany. Something you did not know, borders have changed over and over historically, depending who won wars.

But the corollary of that is how much internal migration many countries have had. For example, Alsace-Lorraine is nowadays full of people with origins elsewhere in France to the point where the ethnic German element is really a minority.

[Teutone]

Then why are you so opposed to non-white immigration and race-mixing, if you actually want to look less white yourself? xD

Being tanned has nothing to do with your race or ethnicity only utter anthrotards think being pale means being white.

Mats Hummels will score 100% European and vast mayority German on ANY dna test.

[JamesBond007]

I'm not saying this is the generic typical German but this is a good example of German swarthiness :

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1029457252464451585/C4L-BBMD.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Being tanned has nothing to do with your race or ethnicity only utter anthrotards think being pale means being white.

Mats Hummels will score 100% European and vast mayority German on ANY dna test.

I agree that even the darkest NW Europeans for the most part still look distinctly, well, European. Not sure if quite the same is true of the darkest Southern Europeans or the most Uralic/Mongoloid-looking NE Europeans, however.

[Tooting Carmen]

I'm not saying this is the generic typical German but this is a good example of German swarthiness :

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1029457252464451585/C4L-BBMD.jpg

Not that dark, he's a pan-Western Euro face.

[Teutone]

I agree that even the darkest NW Europeans for the most part still look distinctly, well, European. Not sure if quite the same is true of the darkest Southern Europeans or the most Uralic/Mongoloid-looking NE Europeans, however.

Southern Europeans are all white Europeans, the way they tan is completly irelevant.

Just as the pigmentation of cheddarman was irrelevant, only retards say hes black cause of his pigmentation. He wasnt negroid at all, the skull determines your race.

[JamesBond007]

Not that dark, he's a pan-Western Euro face.

I already said that Germans are not swarthy by European standards but by Anglo-Sphere standards they are; so, I haven't got a clue about what you are talking about here. This guys skin is darker than most English, Scottish and Irish people but I'm not so sure about Wales as the Welsh are the darkest Britons even darker than the Cornish.

[Tooting Carmen]

I already said that Germans are not swarthy by European standards but by Anglo-Sphere standards they are; so, I haven't got a clue about what you are talking about here. This guys skin is darker than most English, Scottish and Irish people but I'm not so sure about Wales as the Welsh are the darkest Britons even darker than the Cornish.

A little more tanned than average for Britain perhaps, but nothing exceptional in the slightest.

[Tooting Carmen]

Southern Europeans are all white Europeans, the way they tan is completly irelevant.

Just as the pigmentation of cheddarman was irrelevant, only retards say hes black cause of his pigmentation. He wasnt negroid at all, the skull determines your race.

There are MENA/semi-MENA types in (parts of) Southern Europe, though certainly a lot fewer than the stereotype. For example, having visited Sicily, they are nowhere near as exotic as Sikeliot used to portray them.

[Teutone]

There are MENA/semi-MENA types in (parts of) Southern Europe, though certainly a lot fewer than the stereotype. For example, having visited Sicily, they are nowhere near as exotic as Sikeliot used to portray them.

No normal human being would ever come up with the idea that sicilians arent white.

You should realize TA is madhouse and physical anthropology is a pseudo science mostly for aspergers.

[Septentrion]

But the corollary of that is how much internal migration many countries have had. For example, Alsace-Lorraine is nowadays full of people with origins elsewhere in France to the point where the ethnic German element is really a minority.

Stop with excuses. There are many foreigners in Germany too. I am speaking concerning people native to the region. Alsace - Lorraine still one of the highest frequency for blond hair and blue eyes in France.

[Marmara]

Yes they are brown.

[JamesBond007]

No normal human being would ever come up with the idea that sicilians arent white.

You should realize TA is madhouse and physical anthropology is a pseudo science mostly for aspergers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3yon2GyoiM

[JamesBond007]

No normal human being would ever come up with the idea that sicilians arent white.

You should realize TA is madhouse and physical anthropology is a pseudo science mostly for aspergers.

We aren't even engaging in physical anthropology here in this thread as no one has called him 'alpine', yet, as far as I noticed at least.

[Teutone]

We aren't even engaging in physical anthropology here in this thread as no one has called him 'alpine', yet, as far as I noticed at least.

What do I care, pigmentation and phenotypes are so irrelevant for non autists.

[JamesBond007]

What do I care, pigmentation and phenotypes are so irrelevant for non autists.

So Benjamin Franklin was an 'autist' ? Well , if you was an autist that makes you a swarthy kraut ! :P

[Teutone]

So Benjamin Franklin was an 'autist' ? Well , if you was an autist that makes you a swarthy kraut ! :P

Maybe he was, I dont care about Benjamin Franklin and know nothing about him.

Before DNA tests, anthropology made sense tho.
Now its obsolet

[Septentrion]

A proper pigmentation map based on genes responsible for lighter hair and eyes in European populations.
https://unsafeharbour.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/map-europepigmentationgenes.jpg

Britain is not darker than Germany by any means.
Parts of Southern Germany are equivalent to Northern and Central France. It is all connected to geographical location.

[Septentrion]

A little more tanned than average for Britain perhaps, but nothing exceptional in the slightest.

This is what Benjamin Franklin meant! That Germans and other continental Europeans were somewhat darker-completected than they ( British Islanders) were.

[Septentrion]

How is Mats Hummels dark skinned?

You anthroguys should worry about more important issues

Every sane German tries to get a tan

olive skin looks good

Yes it does look good on women especially. Yes, we Europeans aren’t all equally light-skinned.

[Insuperable]

Lulz this forum

[Septentrion]

There are MENA/semi-MENA types in (parts of) Southern Europe, though certainly a lot fewer than the stereotype. For example, having visited Sicily, they are nowhere near as exotic as Sikeliot used to portray them.

Yes MENA types although found don’t dominate.

[dperucca]

Even Bavarians are no darker than French people and certainly not comparable to any actual Southern European group.

There are some random swarthy ones here and there. I'm not talking about the most recent additions to the country.

[TheMaestro]

Their jaw is bigger than your future.

[JamesBond007]

Don’t bother writing more than 3 sentences dude, I have ADHD and short life.

Nice Avatar of an American :

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/-picture-id953612456?s=612x612


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_uujKuJMI

[TheMaestro]

Nice Avatar of an American :

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/-picture-id953612456?s=612x612


This is how you boost your ego old wise man XD ?

[Crimean]

The population of Germany in terms of swarthiness approximately corresponds to the level of Russia.
The north of Germany is as blonde on average as the Russian north, and southern Germany, Austria and the German-speaking part of Switzerland are approximately equal to southern Russia (Crimea, Krasnodar and Rostov regions) in terms of pigmentation intensity.
I believe that this is still quite far from the concept of "swarthiness."

[Septentrion]

I agree that even the darkest NW Europeans for the most part still look distinctly, well, European. Not sure if quite the same is true of the darkest Southern Europeans or the most Uralic/Mongoloid-looking NE Europeans, however.


The darkest NW Europeans look Atlantid, Paleo Atlantid, North Atlantid, darker Keltic Nordid, darker Hallstatt Nordid. Thus there is always a Nordid undertone in all these.

[Septentrion]

The population of Germany in terms of swarthiness approximately corresponds to the level of Russia.
The north of Germany is as blonde on average as the Russian north, and southern Germany, Austria and the German-speaking part of Switzerland are approximately equal to southern Russia (Crimea, Krasnodar and Rostov regions) in terms of pigmentation intensity.
I believe that this is still quite far from the concept of "swarthiness."

Fair enough. I would think that North Germany would more similar to West and North-West European Russia.

[Septentrion]

The population of Germany in terms of swarthiness approximately corresponds to the level of Russia.
The north of Germany is as blonde on average as the Russian north, and southern Germany, Austria and the German-speaking part of Switzerland are approximately equal to southern Russia (Crimea, Krasnodar and Rostov regions) in terms of pigmentation intensity.
I believe that this is still quite far from the concept of "swarthiness."

In my opinion and also according to various sources, Germans are as a group of fair pigmentation with a good tendency towards blondness, but much less so, towards red-headedness. Although they are not the fairest in Europe as many want us to believe.

[Zroota]

Not that dark, he's a pan-Western Euro face.
Not really. Kimmel looks more eastern, like Turkish, Greek islander, Assyrian/Armenian, Jewish (besides, he is a Jew anyway).


Ulf Kirsten, swarthy German
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Ulf_Kirsten_2019.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Ulf_Kirsten.jpg/220px-Ulf_Kirsten.jpg

He is undoubtedly mixed. Looks like that NW European with some SSA ancestry, like Nicole Richie:

https://cdn.mamamia.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/24123236/Nicole-feat.jpg

[Universe]

Yes!
They're brown people.

[Supercomputer]

I think that you are definitely wrong in terms of hair colour. Firstly Northern France, although it is the lightest part of France it is not on par with Britain. Eastern France bordering Germany is not different from adjacent parts of Germany. Something you did not know, borders have changed over and over historically, depending who won wars. Germany is not lighter than Britain, by any means. Although we could say is that Northern Germany as a whole has a slightly higher frequency of blond hair than Britain.

https://i.postimg.cc/8cLsb4Zp/nigrescence-germany-parsons.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Rico33]

'Nigrescense' sounds like the name of a perfume.

[Septentrion]

https://i.postimg.cc/8cLsb4Zp/nigrescence-germany-parsons.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Stop with Beddoe’s nonsense. The light hair and light eye gene map is a lot more accurate. Beddoe was a lot more bias towards non-Germanic or non Anglo-Saxon people. Therefore, I took everything with a grain of salt.
This light hair and light eye gene is a lot more precise than the one done in Beddoe’s days.
https://unsafeharbour.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/map-europepigmentationgenes.jpg

[JamesBond007]

Cro-Magnon is bullshit. If your wisdom teeth dosent fitt it is because your maxilla is to narrow because of for example mouth breathing not because lack of cro-magnon blood.

No, the British (I have British ancestry) are less Upper Paleolithic cro-magnon than the Germans and Irish so they (Germans and Irish) are related to inferior archaic hominid types. in Germany it is mostly Borreby and in Ireland it is mostly Brunn. The British tend to have more refined delicate facial features and the Germans a hard peasant look.

Charles Darwin IQ 160 > than your IQ.

My maxilla is highly evolved :

http://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/styles/ow_medium_feature/public/field/field_image_main/Aliens.jpg?itok=qBBUE1Su

[Septentrion]

No, the British (I have British ancestry) are less Upper Paleolithic cro-magnon than the Germans and Irish so they (Germans and Irish) are related to inferior archaic hominid types. in Germany it is mostly Borreby and in Ireland it is mostly Brunn. The British tend to have more refined delicate facial features and the Germans a hard peasant look.

Charles Darwin IQ 160 > than your IQ.

My maxilla is highly evolved :

http://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/styles/ow_medium_feature/public/field/field_image_main/Aliens.jpg?itok=qBBUE1Su

Why are you always more likely to utter nonsense? Mutt!

[Septentrion]

Note, although the Nordid subrace was greatly praised and respected in the first half of the 20th century by Europeans as a whole and Germans in particular. This subrace in the strict sense is definitely not dominant in the German population as a whole, as it is in parts of Northern Europe (Sweden - Hallstatt/ Britain - Keltic). The North-West Cromagnids ( Borreby and Dalofaelid) are by far much more dominant among Germans, especially northern ones. Let us not confuse the fair hair and light eyes feature as “Nordid” only. There are plenty of Borrebies and Dalofaelids who have that pigmentation, but different anthropometric measurements than Nordids!

[Vožd]

Light.

[Septentrion]

Light.

Yeah I think so too.

[Septentrion]

A little more tanned than average for Britain perhaps, but nothing exceptional in the slightest.

Yes, the Irish and British are lighter-complected than the Germans. Skin phototype IV is much more common among Germans than the British or Irish by far.

[Kamal900]

Of course not, rofl. In fact, they have this stereotype that all Germans are blonde and etc which is obviously not true.

[happycow]

This guy played a swarthy German in the show Boardwalk Empire. Anthony Laciura, not sure where he is actually from.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTgyMzIxNzQxNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODA0MTg2OA@@._ V1_.jpg

https://alchetron.com/cdn/anthony-laciura-97ce4d36-8b86-4791-85fa-59e1107dd86-resize-750.jpeg

[Supercomputer]

Stop with Beddoe’s nonsense. The light hair and light eye gene map is a lot more accurate. Beddoe was a lot more bias towards non-Germanic or non Anglo-Saxon people. Therefore, I took everything with a grain of salt.
This light hair and light eye gene is a lot more precise than the one done in Beddoe’s days.
https://unsafeharbour.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/map-europepigmentationgenes.jpg

You call me out for quoting nonsense yet you post even bigger one. That gene "map" is the biggest blunder that is circulating on pigmentation online along with Peter Frosts's eye color map. Russians lighter than Scandinavians? Bulgars as light as Slovenians? Come one dude. Even if the data on the map is correct we're obviously dealing with "Slavic" gene and there are much more than 3 genes involved in human pigmentation. My Beddoe map may not be 100% correct, but it's the best thing directly comparing Britain and Germany we have. Beddoe was British so I don't see him being biased against Britain when comparing it to Germany. In eye color I think Virchow's 72% light eyes corresponds to Britain's 78% and with hair color both TNH and XP have found England being roughly 30% blond (+ dark blond) and Germany around 40%. So Britain wins in eye color, and Germany in hair color, but in hair color the difference is greater so the Germany edges out.

[RandomGuy20]

Pigment depends on the region I guess. For example my family from the Rhineland-Palatinate (Frankish) are darker than my family from the north (Saxon).
I don't consider them dark or swarthy though.

[Septentrion]

Blondism in England and Germany are somehow different. In England it is more reddish and golden, while in Germany still golden but verges more towards ashen colors. Coon, Lundman finds eastern Britain to be of a Scandinavian level of blondism. Ripley finds England to be 40% blond. Coon finds the North Sea shore of England to be as high as 90% light-eyed. Gunther estimates Britain to be more Nordid than Germany. The light hair and eye gene map is lot more accurate than anthropological one. Ok.
Beddoe was bias against Celtic Britons. To even call Irish folks, Africanoids and linked it to “prognathism”. This is rubbish!

[Supercomputer]

Blondism in England and Germany are somehow different. In England it is more reddish and golden, while in Germany still golden but verges more towards ashen colors. Coon, Lundman finds eastern Britain to be of a Scandinavian level of blondism. Ripley finds England to be 40% blond. Coon finds the North Sea shore of England to be as high as 90% light-eyed. Gunther estimates Britain to be more Nordid than Germany. The light hair and eye gene map is lot more accurate than anthropological one. Ok.
Beddoe was bias against Celtic Britons. To even call Irish folks, Africanoids and linked it to “prognathism”. This is rubbish!

Numbers for Blond and light eyed you give are useless if we don't know the precise definitions of it in each case. There are many ways one can define "blond" as well as "light eyes". ToKneeHwin and Xenophobic prussian used consistent standards in their studies and both found Germany to be around 40% blond and England around 30%. That map I posted from Beddoe also directly compares two countries so it likely also uses equal criteria. Light gene map accurate? Are you stoned? It uses only a few data points for whole Europe the rest "map" is simply assumed from these limited data points. In other words they only used one location for whole Germany. That alone should be enough to disqualify this map from being an accurate representation of blondism. And those obviously aren't all genes, in eye color alone there are 15 genes that are involved. Besides the map is obviously horeseshit to anyone who isn't blind. Russians are not blonder than Swedes or Norwegians and Bulgarians aren't blonder than Romanians and equal to Slovenians. Since Russians and Bulgarians are surprisingly "light" we are probably dealing with "Slavic" or Eastern European genes. Most of England isn't Celtic so even if Beddoes was biased against Celtic peoples such as Irish it does not make him necessarily biased against his own country when comparing it's dark features to Germany. According to the map I posted most South German regions have a Nigrescence index higher than British average which makes sense. The average as a whole also isn't' much darker however Britain probably has more "dark" types due to darker hair.

[alnortedelsur]

Southern Germans are very average in terms of pigmentation for European standards, while Northern Germans are on the lighter end.

The OP question is a joke, though it is also a joke to pretend that nearly all of them are blond and blue eyed.

[Septentrion]

Pigment depends on the region I guess. For example my family from the Rhineland-Palatinate (Frankish) are darker than my family from the north (Saxon).
I don't consider them dark or swarthy though.

Rhineland Palatinate? This is one of the least blond region of Germany.

[Lousianaboy]

i have dark German ancestry, they were from Bavaria in the dark side and Leipzig in the lighter side

[Septentrion]

Ripley who wrote “Races of Europe” rates England at 40%! It is a fact when England is compared to Germany, we find among the English both blond and ginger hair colors are well represented. This is not the case with Germany where red hair is quite rare.

[Septentrion]

Numbers for Blond and light eyed you give are useless if we don't know the precise definitions of it in each case. There are many ways one can define "blond" as well as "light eyes". ToKneeHwin and Xenophobic prussian used consistent standards in their studies and both found Germany to be around 40% blond and England around 30%. That map I posted from Beddoe also directly compares two countries so it likely also uses equal criteria. Light gene map accurate? Are you stoned? It uses only a few data points for whole Europe the rest "map" is simply assumed from these limited data points. In other words they only used one location for whole Germany. That alone should be enough to disqualify this map from being an accurate representation of blondism. And those obviously aren't all genes, in eye color alone there are 15 genes that are involved. Besides the map is obviously horeseshit to anyone who isn't blind. Russians are not blonder than Swedes or Norwegians and Bulgarians aren't blonder than Romanians and equal to Slovenians. Since Russians and Bulgarians are surprisingly "light" we are probably dealing with "Slavic" or Eastern European genes. Most of England isn't Celtic so even if Beddoes was biased against Celtic peoples such as Irish it does not make him necessarily biased against his own country when comparing it's dark features to Germany. According to the map I posted most South German regions have a Nigrescence index higher than British average which makes sense. The average as a whole also isn't' much darker however Britain probably has more "dark" types due to darker hair.

Horseshit is what you are spewing! The map is based on a proper genetic study. Russia is obviously not lighter than Scandinavia. England is not darker than Germany! Coon states; “no typically brunet population may be found in England”.

[Septentrion]

https://unsafeharbour.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/map-europepigmentationgenes.jpg?w=584&h=489

Germany is not uniformly light as we can see. In fact the difference between its northern and southern parts is greater than those between western and eastern Britain.

[Rico33]

https://unsafeharbour.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/map-europepigmentationgenes.jpg?w=584&h=489

Germany is not uniformly light as we can see. In fact the difference between its northern and southern parts is greater than those between western and eastern Britain.

When I was in Berlin for a week, I noticed some people were disproportionately tall in the legs. I also remember seeing types that would probably be called 'Baltic' here.

[catgeorge]

Germans are European people --- nothing more to be said.

[CTPAXOTA]

Haven’t Germans always been viewed as very much on the fair side? Sounds like a dumb question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Septentrion]

When I was in Berlin for a week, I noticed some people were disproportionately tall in the legs. I also remember seeing types that would probably be called 'Baltic' here.

Yes, that is OK for Germany.

[Golden Lining]

Note, although the Nordid subrace was greatly praised and respected in the first half of the 20th century by Europeans as a whole and Germans in particular. This subrace in the strict sense is definitely not dominant in the German population as a whole, as it is in parts of Northern Europe (Sweden - Hallstatt/ Britain - Keltic). The North-West Cromagnids ( Borreby and Dalofaelid) are by far much more dominant among Germans, especially northern ones. Let us not confuse the fair hair and light eyes feature as “Nordid” only. There are plenty of Borrebies and Dalofaelids who have that pigmentation, but different anthropometric measurements than Nordids!

Nah. Dalofaelid is not dominant anywhere except for a few regions. Classic Nordics are a lot more common, almost everywhere.

[RandomGuy20]

Rhineland Palatinate? This is one of the least blond region of Germany.

Yeah it seems like most have brown/dark brown hair there - same as Franconia and Saarland (I'm convinced its a Frankish thing since people from these areas tend to be collectively less blond).

[Dna8]

I've never been to Germany, but every time I visit Frankfurt or Dusseldorf I am surprised how many Meds there are there.

[Westbrook]

My German dad and his family have darker features and tan much easier than my American mother and her side of the family, but the idea of Germans being "dark or swarthy" has never even entered my mind. That's nonsense.

[Tooting Carmen]

I've never been to Germany, but every time I visit Frankfurt or Dusseldorf I am surprised how many Meds there are there.

While there are definitely some native Germans who do look Med, aren't at least some of those Med types you see in big cities like Frankfurt and Dusseldorf gonna be of Turkish or Southern European origin?

[Dna8]

While there are definitely some native Germans who do look Med, aren't at least some of those Med types you see in big cities like Frankfurt and Dusseldorf gonna be of Turkish or Southern European origin?

Actually, the ones I referenced from Dusseldorf and Frankfurt were all German citizens.

But yes, they were mostly bilingual (German/Turkish).

[Latinus]

Not really, but I would they have a significant minority of "dark" types.

[Septentrion]

Yeah it seems like most have brown/dark brown hair there - same as Franconia and Saarland (I'm convinced its a Frankish thing since people from these areas tend to be collectively less blond).

I don't think it is due to the Frankish tribes. The Netherlands and Flanders are also heavily Frankish and there is a good frequency of blond hair. The Netherlands is actually as a whole more blond-haired than Germany. The thing is that the Frankish tribes mingled with earlier inhabitants who were less frequently blond-haired, less dark-eyed.
These are the least blond areas of Germany are:
Baden
Saarland
Lusatia
Frankish Bavaria
Rhineland Palatinate
Ruhr
Hesse

[Jana]

Actually, the ones I referenced from Dusseldorf and Frankfurt were all German citizens.

But yes, they were mostly bilingual (German/Turkish).

Thread is about Germans, not immigrants. Frankfurt is city with biggest amount of foreigners in Germany. My ex was there recently and said it was hard to see many real Germans on the streets.

[Mortimer]

Some are in a small amount like Löw and Lothar Matthäus.

[Septentrion]

Numbers for Blond and light eyed you give are useless if we don't know the precise definitions of it in each case. There are many ways one can define "blond" as well as "light eyes". ToKneeHwin and Xenophobic prussian used consistent standards in their studies and both found Germany to be around 40% blond and England around 30%. That map I posted from Beddoe also directly compares two countries so it likely also uses equal criteria. Light gene map accurate? Are you stoned? It uses only a few data points for whole Europe the rest "map" is simply assumed from these limited data points. In other words they only used one location for whole Germany. That alone should be enough to disqualify this map from being an accurate representation of blondism. And those obviously aren't all genes, in eye color alone there are 15 genes that are involved. Besides the map is obviously horeseshit to anyone who isn't blind. Russians are not blonder than Swedes or Norwegians and Bulgarians aren't blonder than Romanians and equal to Slovenians. Since Russians and Bulgarians are surprisingly "light" we are probably dealing with "Slavic" or Eastern European genes. Most of England isn't Celtic so even if Beddoes was biased against Celtic peoples such as Irish it does not make him necessarily biased against his own country when comparing it's dark features to Germany. According to the map I posted most South German regions have a Nigrescence index higher than British average which makes sense. The average as a whole also isn't' much darker however Britain probably has more "dark" types due to darker hair.

Why should I confide myself to extreme amateurs like ToKneeHwin and Xenophobic Prussian? The North Germany mean for blond hair may be well around 40%, but for the entire country, nope. Germany is definitely not equally blond.

[Wolfdog]

What about differences "dark" vs. "swarthy" ?

Also, both ideas are in the of beholder... IMO

[Septentrion]

What about differences "dark" vs. "swarthy" ?

Also, both ideas are in the of beholder... IMO

They are quite similar. Perhaps, I'd say "swarthy" is more attached to complexion (brunet), more than hair or eye color.

[JamesBond007]

What about differences "dark" vs. "swarthy" ?

Also, both ideas are in the of beholder... IMO

Dark British (this is my coloring BTW) :

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/22/7e/ff227ea33e2e44b62cdbd63d24726638.jpg

https://c.wallhere.com/photos/bd/40/Keira_Knightley_women-188207.jpg!d

Swarthy German :

https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2017/05/02/tv_jimmy_kimmel_baby_30284_c0-81-1000-664_s885x516.jpg?9be297de007578678b200db2537719340 49757f6

[Septentrion]

What about differences "dark" vs. "swarthy" ?

Also, both ideas are in the of beholder... IMO

A good example is Carleton. S. Coon's description of Upper Bavarian Miesbachers' skin color to be "brunet-white" in over 50%. These Germans can be called swarthy.

[Supercomputer]

----

[Supercomputer]

Horseshit is what you are spewing! The map is based on a proper genetic study. Russia is obviously not lighter than Scandinavia. England is not darker than Germany! Coon states; “no typically brunet population may be found in England”.

You call my post horseshit yet you acknowledge Russia is not lighter than Scandinavia. Are you on drugs? That's what your "proper genetic study" map shows. I'm not saying it's a fake study, I'm saying it's not an accurate representation of blondism. This map is based on only 3 genes. There are more than 3 genes involved in blondism. England is darker than Germany in hair color. Both scientific historical as well as TWO modern studies show that. There are zero studies showing England to be equal in hair color to Germany. There are also no typically brunet populations found in Germany either, brunette types are minorities in both countries.

[Regnera]

Not at all.

[RandomGuy20]

I don't think it is due to the Frankish tribes. The Netherlands and Flanders are also heavily Frankish and there is a good frequency of blond hair. The Netherlands is actually as a whole more blond-haired than Germany. The thing is that the Frankish tribes mingled with earlier inhabitants who were less frequently blond-haired, less dark-eyed.
These are the least blond areas of Germany are:
Baden
Saarland
Lusatia
Frankish Bavaria
Rhineland Palatinate
Ruhr
Hesse

What your two cents about varying levels of blondness in Germany? Maybe Celtic or possibly Roman influence? Its interesting seeing the contrast in pigment and phenotypes among North and South-Western Germans.

[Septentrion]

What your two cents about varying levels of blondness in Germany? Maybe Celtic or possibly Roman influence? Its interesting seeing the contrast in pigment and phenotypes among North and South-Western Germans.

Mixtures happened with Alpine Celts, Slavs, etc... Although Northern Germans almost completely absorbed or “bred out” Nordid strains to remain more Borreby and Dalofaelid than “strictly Nordid”. It is the South-Western Germans of all Germans who are said to have kept the most Nordid strains, but still with a strong Borreby/Dalofaelid cast. Other Southern Germans are darker, more Alpine and also Dinarid.

[Septentrion]

You call my post horseshit yet you acknowledge Russia is not lighter than Scandinavia. Are you on drugs? That's what your "proper genetic study" map shows. I'm not saying it's a fake study, I'm saying it's not an accurate representation of blondism. This map is based on only 3 genes. There are more than 3 genes involved in blondism. England is darker than Germany in hair color. Both scientific historical as well as TWO modern studies show that. There are zero studies showing England to be equal in hair color to Germany. There are also no typically brunet populations found in Germany either, brunette types are minorities in both countries.

There are typically brunet populations in Bavaria, where even over 50% of Miesbachers were found to have a brunet - white skin color. That is brunet enough, smart one! They were said to be one of the most brunet people in Germany. The English are one of the palest - complexioned people on the face of the earth! Even the Nazis who sold to most of you the “blond German dream” rated Britain to be more Nordid than Germany. Germans are nowhere as blond as the Scandinavians, their blondness decreases progressively from northern to southern regions.

[Supercomputer]

There are typically brunet populations in Bavaria, where even over 50% of Miesbachers were found to have a brunet - white skin color. That is brunet enough, smart one! They were said to be one of the most brunet people in Germany. The English are one of the palest - complexioned people on the face of the earth! Even the Nazis who sold to most of you the “blond German dream” rated Britain to be more Nordid than Germany. Germans are nowhere as blond as the Scandinavians, their blondness decreases progressively from northern to southern regions.

I'm skeptical of the skin color studies. Skin color changes over seasons and over time. Especially from Coon who was of English origin and wrote his book Races of Europe at the wake of Nazism and his country's war against Germany. He dark washed Germany in his map.

[Septentrion]

I'm skeptical of the skin color studies. Skin color changes over seasons and over time. Especially from Coon who was of English origin and wrote his book Races of Europe at the wake of Nazism and his country's war against Germany. He dark washed Germany in his map.

I am skeptical of you. You are harboring Nazism tendencies. It is with the help of Coon, Lundman and others that we have true picture of the physical anthropology of the European people. Coon is one of the best, that’s all! If not the best! He is not English, he is an American by the way. He has many ancestries, not only English. Skin color studies? Come on Supercomputer! Way before Coon, the English were known to be one of the fairest - skinned people on earth! Even Benjamin Franklin noted that. Skin phototypes studies much later than Coon, also shows skin type I or II are commonest in Celtic populations of Europe. “Dark-washed” Germany? My foot. Everyone knows that Germans or any other continental Europeans tan more easily than the English or British. Coon, even Deniker, Lundman, etc... thanks to them, they broke the Nazi lies (“All true Germans are blonds”). That is rubbish! Germany is not an exception to other Central and Northern European nations. Rather follows the same pigment charter. Blondism rises as one goes more north towards Scandinavia, Baltic, North Seas and decreases southwards towards Austria, Switzerland , France and so on.

[Septentrion]

Coon has English ( Cornish) and French ancestry too.

[Morena]

Depends on the German. Most Germans I've met have had brown hair, light eyes, and paleish skin. I don't consider them "swarthy" because to me, swarthy also includes black/brown black hair and coarser med features. Example: me. I'm swarthy, but most Germans I've met don't fit that definition. I dunno, maybe that definition is wrong. Is Liv Lisa Fries swarthy?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F6c%2Fa f%2F41%2F6caf41061589d4d13cfbec7cdca3783f.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

I say no.

[Creoda]

I'm skeptical of the skin color studies. Skin color changes over seasons and over time. Especially from Coon who was of English origin and wrote his book Races of Europe at the wake of Nazism and his country's war against Germany. He dark washed Germany in his map.
Sounds like projection of Southern European complexes/agendas over inconsequential matters onto NW European/American professionals. People can just be wrong for innocent reasons, not everyone always has an agenda. You must be Balkanite.

[Duffmannn]

Sounds like projection of Southern European complexes/agendas over inconsequential matters onto NW European/American professionals. People can just be wrong for innocent reasons, not everyone always has an agenda. You must be Balkanite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

The Piltdown Man was a paleoanthropological fraud in which bone fragments were presented as the fossilised remains of a previously unknown early human. The falsity of the hoax was demonstrated in 1953. An extensive scientific review in 2016 established that amateur archaeologist Charles Dawson was its likely perpetrator.

In 1912, Charles Dawson claimed that he had discovered the "missing link" between ape and man. In February 1912, Dawson contacted Arthur Smith Woodward, Keeper of Geology at the Natural History Museum, stating he had found a section of a human-like skull in Pleistocene gravel beds near Piltdown, East Sussex.[2] That summer, Dawson and Smith Woodward purportedly discovered more bones and artifacts at the site, which they connected to the same individual. These finds included a jawbone, more skull fragments, a set of teeth, and primitive tools.

Smith Woodward reconstructed the skull fragments and hypothesised that they belonged to a human ancestor from 500,000 years ago. The discovery was announced at a Geological Society meeting and was given the Latin name Eoanthropus dawsoni ("Dawson's dawn-man"). The questionable significance of the assemblage remained the subject of considerable controversy until it was conclusively exposed in 1953 as a forgery. It was found to have consisted of the altered mandible and some teeth of an orangutan deliberately combined with the cranium of a fully developed, though small-brained, modern human.

------

Regarding this "discoverment" many british anthropologists claimed the british racial superiority since the Paleolithic!!!!

[Roy]

Depends on the German. Most Germans I've met have had brown hair, light eyes, and paleish skin. I don't consider them "swarthy" because to me, swarthy also includes black/brown black hair and coarser med features. Example: me. I'm swarthy, but most Germans I've met don't fit that definition. I dunno, maybe that definition is wrong. Is Liv Lisa Fries swarthy?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F6c%2Fa f%2F41%2F6caf41061589d4d13cfbec7cdca3783f.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

I say no.

Would you say that this German is swarthy? I'd say he is (his name is Constantin Schmid)

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PYKCY7/herzogenaurach-deutschland-29th-oct-2018-constantin-schmid-single-photo-single-motif-portrait-portraits-season-201819-german-ski-association-dsv-athlete-and-supervisor-portraits-usage-worldwide-credit-dpaalamy-live-news-PYKCY7.jpg

https://static.berkutschi.com/berkutschi/images/jumpers/000/002/772/small/schmid.jpeg?1575219217

[samario]

No, they are not.

[Morena]

Would you say that this German is swarthy? I'd say he is (his name is Constantin Schmid)

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PYKCY7/herzogenaurach-deutschland-29th-oct-2018-constantin-schmid-single-photo-single-motif-portrait-portraits-season-201819-german-ski-association-dsv-athlete-and-supervisor-portraits-usage-worldwide-credit-dpaalamy-live-news-PYKCY7.jpg

https://static.berkutschi.com/berkutschi/images/jumpers/000/002/772/small/schmid.jpeg?1575219217

He's very close, but not quite. I wouldn't call him swarthy because his features aren't heavy enough. Funny enough, Goebbels comes to mind.I would consider him swarthy.

[Roy]

He's very close, but not quite. I wouldn't call him swarthy because his features aren't heavy enough. Funny enough, Goebbels comes to mind.I would consider him swarthy.

For me it's less about features alone, but about the overall vibe and pigmentation. His eye area is very dark, we call it oprawa oczu in Polish and it has no clear equivalent in English and he surely tans well too.


Either way what do you mean by heavy or heavy enough? I don't quite get you.

[Morena]

For me it's less about features alone, but about the overall vibe and pigmentation. His eye area is very dark, we call it oprawa oczu in Polish and it has no clear equivalent in English and he surely tans well too.


Either way what do you mean by heavy or heavy enough? I don't quite get you.

Thick eyebrow ridge, thick eyebrows in general, large, and a prominent nose. If his eyebrows were a tad thicker, then he would look swarthy to me.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fe0%2F0 1%2F4c%2Fe0014c229a10ead58328aee08afb6ab3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[Septentrion]

In my humble opinion, Germans are fair, due to a tendency towards blondness and are mainly sub-brachycephal to brachycephal. blond hair, blue or light eyes is most common in the north. Swarthiness is by no means the rule here, but may be found in enclaves in the south.

[Septentrion]

The best place in the world to find Alpines is in a Bavarian restaurant.
Southern Germany is the seat of one of the greatest concentrations of Alpines in Europe.

[Septentrion]

Depends on the German. Most Germans I've met have had brown hair, light eyes, and paleish skin. I don't consider them "swarthy" because to me, swarthy also includes black/brown black hair and coarser med features. Example: me. I'm swarthy, but most Germans I've met don't fit that definition. I dunno, maybe that definition is wrong. Is Liv Lisa Fries swarthy?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F6c%2Fa f%2F41%2F6caf41061589d4d13cfbec7cdca3783f.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

I say no.

Yeah, quite a few Germans have the light ashen brown hair and gray, green, hazel eyes than pure blue with a fair skin rather not pale. The “typical German” to me has dark blond or light ashen brown hair, light eyes and fair skin. They tan easily, but not as Italians or Southern Frenchmen or Spaniards, etc...

[Septentrion]

I'm not saying this is the generic typical German but this is a good example of German swarthiness :

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1029457252464451585/C4L-BBMD.jpg

He reminds me of M. Ballack the soccer player!
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BY2ZlZjY5MGEtNWZkZC00MzE1LTljZTEtMDVjZmIyNTZkMz QzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_UY1200_CR190,0, 630,1200_AL_.jpg

[Creoda]

Jimmy Kimmel is not German, he's another Euromutt/Amerimutt abomination just like the person who posted him.

[Richmondbread]

Germans tend to have dark hair, but swarthy they are not.

[Richmondbread]

Jimmy Kimmel is not German, he's another Euromutt/Amerimutt abomination just like the person who posted him.

He looks Italian or Jew. Germans have dark hair but very fair skin.

[Daco Celtic]

Jimmy Kimmel is not German, he's another Euromutt/Amerimutt abomination just like the person who posted him.

Are you under the impression that the typical Euromutt/Amerimutt looks like Jimmy Kimmel or Henry Hill?

[Creoda]

Are you under the impression that the typical Euromutt/Amerimutt looks like Jimmy Kimmel or Henry Hill?
No, most Euromutts/Amerimutts aren't half Italian.

[Daco Celtic]

No, most Euromutts/Amerimutts aren't half Italian.

Europemutts are kind of like wine, they require the right blend. It takes finesse. Many are more mixed than a neat 50/50 split. Why is Italian mix a particularly bad blend?

[Supercomputer]

Sounds like projection of Southern European complexes/agendas over inconsequential matters onto NW European/American professionals. People can just be wrong for innocent reasons, not everyone always has an agenda. You must be Balkanite.

Dude are you stoned? How the hell is claiming that an Englishmen might have dark washed Germans have anything to do with being Souther Euro or Balkanite??? You talk about projection, but ironically your post is the biggest example of a projection I have encountered in my entire life :banghead::033102st:

Yes he could be wrong for innocent reasons, that's why I wrote that I'm skeptical and I'm just theorizing. But did dark wash Germany, especially Bavaria which isn't nearly as dark as North Italy which is what his map shows.

[Creoda]

Dude are you stoned? How the hell is claiming that an Englishmen might have dark washed Germans have anything to do with being Souther Euro or Balkanite??? You talk about projection, but ironically your post is the biggest example of a projection I have encountered in my entire life :banghead::033102st:

Yes he could be wrong for innocent reasons, that's why I wrote that I'm skeptical and I'm just theorizing. But did dark wash Germany, especially Bavaria which isn't nearly as dark as North Italy which is what his map shows.
It's a conspiracy theory with no evidence. How exactly does an American (not English) anthropologist darkwashing Germans in the 1930s serve the war effort which the US wouldn't join until 1941? I say it's projection because it's always Southern Europeans/Balkanites trying to darkwash each other and paranoid about it. Northern Europeans are not very interested in it between them, nor does it serve any plausible propagandistic value. Germans being dark is not a trope in the Anglosphere and never has been.

With this type of allegation you can basically dismiss any anthropological study you disagree with as being nationally biased and thus invalid if you so wish, and invent some hypothetical reason.

It's better to just argue it's wrong because of inconsistency with other data, and leave it at that.

[Samnium]

Europemutts are kind of like wine, they require the right blend. It takes finesse. Many are more mixed than a neat 50/50 split. Why is Italian mix a particularly bad blend?

Because they are southern europeans. :icon_rolleyes:

[The Great Uniter]

No.

[Daco Celtic]

Because they are southern europeans. :icon_rolleyes:

People have interesting ideas about American Euromutts.

[Richmondbread]

People have interesting ideas about American Euromutts.

Europeans are simply jealous of Americans and that's the best they can come up with.

[Aileron]

i dont think they are dark lol if they are then almost whole population of Europea would be dark

[Supercomputer]

It's a conspiracy theory with no evidence. How exactly does an American (not English) anthropologist darkwashing Germans in the 1930s serve the war effort which the US wouldn't join until 1941? I say it's projection because it's always Southern Europeans/Balkanites trying to darkwash each other and paranoid about it. Northern Europeans are not very interested in it between them, nor does it serve any plausible propagandistic value. Germans being dark is not a trope in the Anglosphere and never has been.

With this type of allegation you can basically dismiss any anthropological study you disagree with as being nationally biased and thus invalid if you so wish, and invent some hypothetical reason.

It's better to just argue it's wrong because of inconsistency with other data, and leave it at that.

LOL and what would I as a Balkanite South Euro gain by lightwashing GERMANY??? You aren't making any sense.

Sepotinitron provided no sources for his scientific claim that English are significantly lighter skinned than Germans. I am not denying any scientific data or studies. I just expressed a hypothesis that Coon's map (which is totally arbitrary) and the way he wrote his book might have dark washed Germany. I base my assumption (not a conspiracy theory - you should read what the later is) is that Coon might have dark washed Germany. Nazis with their blond aryan theories were already in power for a long time and American society generally disliked Naziism coming from Germany and viewed itsle as a potential all of Britain not Germany. In his texts Coon wrote how Germans are majority brown haired in adulthood and never wrote about them as a blond nation in a way he did to say Poland (who is less blond than Germany). Portraying Germany as lighter might have been seen as expressing pro-German and pro Nazi sentiments and this would not been received well by American society in late 1930s which viewed Germans as potential enemy by that time as well as their ideology. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I have proof that it wasn't a genuine mistake.

[Septentrion]

LOL and what would I as a Balkanite South Euro gain by lightwashing GERMANY??? You aren't making any sense.

Sepotinitron provided no sources for his scientific claim that English are significantly lighter skinned than Germans. I am not denying any scientific data or studies. I just expressed a hypothesis that Coon's map (which is totally arbitrary) and the way he wrote his book might have dark washed Germany. I base my assumption (not a conspiracy theory - you should read what the later is) is that Coon might have dark washed Germany. Nazis with their blond aryan theories were already in power for a long time and American society generally disliked Naziism coming from Germany and viewed itsle as a potential all of Britain not Germany. In his texts Coon wrote how Germans are majority brown haired in adulthood and never wrote about them as a blond nation in a way he did to say Poland (who is less blond than Germany). Portraying Germany as lighter might have been seen as expressing pro-German and pro Nazi sentiments and this would not been received well by American society in late 1930s which viewed Germans as potential enemy by that time as well as their ideology. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I have proof that it wasn't a genuine mistake.

Rubbish, rubbish. Coon said only the truth. You are intoxicated with Nazi - like beliefs. I am here to tell you that not all Germans are blond and the majority is brown-haired. Blond hair is common among Germans and quite frequent in the north. You lied or are just ignorant about Coon’s statements. Coon is one of the best if not the best. He was a professor at the number one university of physical anthropology in the world ( Harvard)! He was a scholar, there was no interest of “dark - washing” Germans.
This is Coon’s overall statements concerning the German people:
“The Germans as a nation are blond or of light - mixed pigmentation. There is a decrease in blondism from north to south, culminating in the mountains of Bavaria where the hair is characteristically dark and the eyes are mixed.”
There is no “dark - washing” there, only truth. You live under the illusion that Germans are like Scandinavians or Balts. The reality is that they are not! There is also no bias for Poland. You should know that there are parts of Southern Germany which lay more south than Southern Poland. Therefore these places are definitely not blonder than Poland! Anyway, the Nazis were known for kidnapping blond, blue-eyed children from Eastern Europe, especially Poland to later raise them as German children. Thousands of these blond Polish were taken. If apples were so “dark”, there was no need for it.

[Septentrion]

LOL and what would I as a Balkanite South Euro gain by lightwashing GERMANY??? You aren't making any sense.

Sepotinitron provided no sources for his scientific claim that English are significantly lighter skinned than Germans. I am not denying any scientific data or studies. I just expressed a hypothesis that Coon's map (which is totally arbitrary) and the way he wrote his book might have dark washed Germany. I base my assumption (not a conspiracy theory - you should read what the later is) is that Coon might have dark washed Germany. Nazis with their blond aryan theories were already in power for a long time and American society generally disliked Naziism coming from Germany and viewed itsle as a potential all of Britain not Germany. In his texts Coon wrote how Germans are majority brown haired in adulthood and never wrote about them as a blond nation in a way he did to say Poland (who is less blond than Germany). Portraying Germany as lighter might have been seen as expressing pro-German and pro Nazi sentiments and this would not been received well by American society in late 1930s which viewed Germans as potential enemy by that time as well as their ideology. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I have proof that it wasn't a genuine mistake.

I am surprised that you did not know that the English were quite fair-skinned. I am quoting Coon;

“More characteristic of British skin than freckling; even, is its tendency to become red when constantly exposed to the air to the air. This extreme vascularity although without doubt partly climatic, must be racial to a certain extent, since it is accompanied by the physiological inability to tan.”

“Extreme vascularity” is characteristic of the British Islanders. In this, they exceed even the predominantly blond-haired, blue-eyed Scandinavians. The paler a skin, the less likely it is to tan. This type of skin is more common among the British than even Scandinavians, let alone Germans!

[Creoda]

LOL and what would I as a Balkanite South Euro gain by lightwashing GERMANY??? You aren't making any sense.

I never accused you of lightwashing Germany, once again you're seeing conspiracies everywhere. I deduce that you're Balkanite because of that conspiratorial mindset, and the fact that you assume someone like Coon would be so petty as to compromise the integrity of his life work so that he can make Germans look slightly darker than they are, and thereby deliver a crushing propaganda defeat or something.

[Supercomputer]

Rubbish, rubbish. Coon said only the truth. You are intoxicated with Nazi - like beliefs. I am here to tell you that not all Germans are blond and the majority is brown-haired. Blond hair is common among Germans and quite frequent in the north. You lied or are just ignorant about Coon’s statements. Coon is one of the best if not the best. He was a professor at the number one university of physical anthropology in the world ( Harvard)! He was a scholar, there was no interest of “dark - washing” Germans.
This is Coon’s overall statements concerning the German people:
“The Germans as a nation are blond or of light - mixed pigmentation. There is a decrease in blondism from north to south, culminating in the mountains of Bavaria where the hair is characteristically dark and the eyes are mixed.”
There is no “dark - washing” there, only truth. You live under the illusion that Germans are like Scandinavians or Balts. The reality is that they are not! There is also no bias for Poland. You should know that there are parts of Southern Germany which lay more south than Southern Poland. Therefore these places are definitely not blonder than Poland! Anyway, the Nazis were known for kidnapping blond, blue-eyed children from Eastern Europe, especially Poland to later raise them as German children. Thousands of these blond Polish were taken. If apples were so “dark”, there was no need for it.

I have Nazi beliefs just because I think one map portrayed Germany as darker than it is :D :D :D Apparently nobody can ever say that Germany might be blonder country than what someone other say in a forum on anthropology because that makes him a nazi :picard1:

I never said Germans were the blondest country in Europe or that they are on pair with Scandinavia. They're just a bit blonder than Poland and England (TWO studies over the course of 10 years showed almost exactly the same numbers) and about equal light eyed to Poland.

Coon wasn't perfect. Take a look again at his map. It shows North Italy equally light as Wales. Obviously not the case. It shows Slovakia and most of Czechia darker than North Croatia. Not the case. It shows Albanians and Kosovars two shades lighter than Greeks. Wrong again. He wrote Montenegrins were equally light eyed to Croatians and Slovenians (as a guy who spent many time in those countries this is just laughable - for example Slovenes have more than twice the light eyes as Montenegro ~55% vs ~25%). And his map showing Bavaria as dark as North Italy is just as wrong as the part about Wales.

Coon wasn't a bad anthropologist but he was human like the rest of us and he had to synchronize a vast collection of studs without having an access to the Internet and he wrote his book before color Satellite TV.

You quoted only a part of what he wrote about Germany. For Poland for example he described them as belonging vast majority of the country in the lightest part of Europe. Germany is blonder than Poland by around +30% (around 40% for Germany and around 30% for Poland) and around equally light eyed. He could have easily described Germany in those terms and he didn't. I suspect it was because of political climate of the time, but I can't prove it.

[Supercomputer]

I never accused you of lightwashing Germany, once again you're seeing conspiracies everywhere. I deduce that you're Balkanite because of that conspiratorial mindset, and the fact that you assume someone like Coon would be so petty as to compromise the integrity of his life work so that he can make Germans look slightly darker than they are, and thereby deliver a crushing propaganda defeat or something.

Learn what a conspiracy theory is moron. Bias isn't conspiracy. If anyone is racist here it's you against Balkan people.

As for Coon read again my post. There was a particular political climate in late 30s in USA leading up to war and Coon like a guy with reputation was careful. That's all I'm saying.

[Septentrion]

Learn what a conspiracy theory is moron. Bias isn't conspiracy. If anyone is racist here it's you against Balkan people.

As for Coon read again my post. There was a particular political climate in late 30s in USA leading up to war and Coon like a guy with reputation was careful. That's all I'm saying.

Coon was not a politician by all means. The particular political climate was created by Nazis who wanted the whole world to believe that “real Germans” were all blond and of the Nordid race or subrace. Coon was not just some amateur out there. He was the president of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists. So you could guess that he’d be a little more careful when making declarations. Harvard was the number 1 school of anthropology in the world at the time and could still be so today.

[Supercomputer]

Coon was not a politician by all means. The particular political climate was created by Nazis who wanted the whole world to believe that “real Germans” were all blond and of the Nordid race or subrace. Coon was not just some amateur out there. He was the president of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists. So you could guess that he’d be a little more careful when making declarations. Harvard was the number 1 school of anthropology in the world at the time and could still be so today.

And I'm saying making yourself appear to have favorable views about Germany in that time in America might have been risky even for president of American Association of Physical Anthropologists. Actually perhaps precisely because one was president of American Association of Physical Anthropologists.

And he did portray Germany darker than it is in his map. Bavaria is much lighter than North Italy.

[Septentrion]

And I'm saying making yourself appear to have favorable views about Germany in that time in America might have been risky even for president of American Association of Physical Anthropologists. Actually perhaps precisely because one was president of American Association of Physical Anthropologists.

And he did portray Germany darker than it is in his map. Bavaria is much lighter than North Italy.

There is no way where Coon portrays Bavaria being darker than Northern Italy!!!!! Nowhere he does that. Germans are said as a whole to have a blond pigmentation! Coon was the best, sorry. He does acknowledges some Bavarian groups tend to be darker than other North and Central German groups. That’s all. I advise you to get your fact straight. Coon was a professional at his job, Harvard was the number 1 and most likely still is the number 1 anthropology school in the world. Please get your facts straight.

[Supercomputer]

There is no way where Coon portrays Bavaria being darker than Northern Italy!!!!! Nowhere he does that. Germans are said as a whole to have a blond pigmentation! Coon was the best, sorry. He does acknowledges some Bavarian groups tend to be darker than other North and Central German groups. That’s all. I advise you to get your fact straight. Coon was a professional at his job, Harvard was the number 1 and most likely still is the number 1 anthropology school in the world. Please get your facts straight.

And I advise you to take a look at his pigmentation map. Bavaria is the same shade as North Italy. Coon made many errors with regard to his map as well as what he wrote about Montenegrins, take a look at my previous post where I list them.

[catgeorge]

Coon is outdated. There is no point discussing anthropology of five generations ago. Recent genetic reports (past five years) or in perpetual delusion.

[Septentrion]

And I advise you to take a look at his pigmentation map. Bavaria is the same shade as North Italy. Coon made many errors with regard to his map as well as what he wrote about Montenegrins, take a look at my previous post where I list them.

Nope the pigmentation map is too generalized to make such assumptions. What you have to do is to read his summary on Germany and the one on Italy and see if he links them. As far as I know, he doesn’t! The problem, I had with you is that is you were trying to portray Britain as “darker - complected” than Germany. The fact is that it isn’t the case.

[Supercomputer]

Nope the pigmentation map is too generalized to make such assumptions. What you have to do is to read his summary on Germany and the one on Italy and see if he links them. As far as I know, he doesn’t! The problem, I had with you is that is you were trying to portray Britain as “darker - complected” than Germany. The fact is that it isn’t the case.

It is in hair color.

[Septentrion]

It is in hair color.

You are Illusioned! Only the northern region is perhaps somewhat more blond-haired (particularly more ashen) , but far less ginger-haired than Britain.

[Supercomputer]

You are Illusioned! Only the northern region is perhaps somewhat more blond-haired (particularly more ashen) , but far less ginger-haired than Britain.

No Germany as a whole is blonder than England. Ginger is another thing.

[Teutone]

You are Illusioned! Only the northern region is perhaps somewhat more blond-haired (particularly more ashen) , but far less ginger-haired than Britain.

You are 100% autistic

why you care so much about blondness, whats the point?

[Supercomputer]

I remember an English documentary on laughter and they did an experiment on stereotypes to measure if people would laugh so they presented a stereotypical German guy talking German and he was blond. So even English stereotype Germans as being blond.

[TheMaestro]

Yes, sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing them from negroes.

[Duffmannn]

Yes, sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing them from negroes.

Do you consider them your blood-brothers?

[TheMaestro]

Do you consider them your blood-brothers?

Every African is my pal.

[Kyp]

How is this thread still alive..

[MysteriousWays]

As a whole, definitely not, although of course, some individuals are.

[Richmondbread]

Germans are the fairest of skin and often have dark hair. That isn't swarthy. They are a good looking bunch.

[TheMaestro]

Germans are the fairest of skin and often have dark hair. That isn't swarthy. They are a good looking bunch.

You have to accept it Richie you are Bavarian negroe.

[Septentrion]

I think some Germanic regions are more red-blond than areas of the British Isles. A 1958 survey of 2004 schoolchildren in Münster, Westphalia (https://books.google.com/books?id=EdkgAQAAMAAJ&q=Münster+2004+rothaarigen&dq=Münster+2004+rothaarigen&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjokbmQ-YPnAhVEiFkKHQBEAS8Q6AEIRDAE)found 6.19% Reds on the Fischer-Saller Scale of which 79% were red blond. Beddoe almost a century before identified Westphalia as having a remarkable number of red blonds, yet relatively few pronounced redheads compared to the British Isles. In 1975 Pálsson and Schwidetzky found 4.3% reds on the Fischer-Saller Scale among 702 Irish, comparable with Dupertuis’ results using the original Fischer Scale. Certainly a far more significant amount of this was pronounced red than with Westphalians. So the Irish and British Islanders in general stand out from Scandinavia and continental Northwest Europe much more in pure red hair than rufous hair overall.

Let us stop the ridiculousness, Germans or any Central European population are nowhere close to the British Islanders in terms of rufosity. People who are close are the Icelanders, Norwegians, Swedes, Frisians (North Dutch), some Walloons. Rufous hair reaches the world’s maximum whether in blond or brown hues in the British Islands. This is linked to their lighter complexion and a stronger tendency for skin freckling in comparison to other Northwest Europeans.

[Septentrion]

Germans are the fairest of skin and often have dark hair. That isn't swarthy. They are a good looking bunch.

I would say that they are usually fair-skinned, but not the fairest by any means. They generally have as adults have light or medium brown hair, so I would not call it “dark hair”. However, you are definitely entitled to your own opinion.

[Septentrion]

I don’t think that Rhineland and Westphalia to be as red-haired as England! Northern England is said to be as red-haired as Ireland according to recent genetic studies. Sunderland also found Northern England to have 15%+ for red hair. This is very high for any place. The “red blond” class of Beddoe most likely corresponds to Coon’s “golden blond”. The reddish-blonde or strawberry blonde class is a lot more common in England than anywhere else! The English are the blondest and lightest-haired people of the British Isles, a lot of their blond hair is reddish. I definitely cannot say about Germans.

[Septentrion]

I think some Germanic regions are more red-blond than areas of the British Isles. A 1958 survey of 2004 schoolchildren in Münster, Westphalia (https://books.google.com/books?id=EdkgAQAAMAAJ&q=Münster+2004+rothaarigen&dq=Münster+2004+rothaarigen&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjokbmQ-YPnAhVEiFkKHQBEAS8Q6AEIRDAE)found 6.19% Reds on the Fischer-Saller Scale of which 79% were red blond. Beddoe almost a century before identified Westphalia as having a remarkable number of red blonds, yet relatively few pronounced redheads compared to the British Isles. In 1975 Pálsson and Schwidetzky found 4.3% reds on the Fischer-Saller Scale among 702 Irish, comparable with Dupertuis’ results using the original Fischer Scale. Certainly a far more significant amount of this was pronounced red than with Westphalians. So the Irish and British Islanders in general stand out from Scandinavia and continental Northwest Europe much more in pure red hair than rufous hair overall.

I think the red-blonde here among these Germans is golden blonde. A similar study done on Dutch school children of the Groningen province in the northeast Netherlands to be as much as 83% golden blond.

[JamesBond007]

I understand your perspective, I was quite surprised at the Westphalian results.

Beddoe found that some parts of the Rhineland and Westphalia had a similar percentage of red hair to the English, but have a much lower frequency of bright red hair. He associated red blond hair with the Ripuarian Franks.

Virchow found only 0.45% brandrothe or flaming-red hair in Westphalia.

What is universally consistent is that British Islanders have more bright red hair than the Germanic peoples.

Who gives a shit about Beddoe ? This nigga lived in 1826 and according to him if he saw Tydal Norwegian Viking , with dark hair, in Cornwall , he would classify the Viking as negriscented inferior celt.

This nigga Beddoe would classify The Beatles as nigrescented celts.

[JamesBond007]

https://i.imgur.com/M1YKG.jpg

If Beddoe found this Norwegian Tydal man in Cornwall, Wales or Ireland he would be a nigrescented inferior 'celt'. What kind of moron makes up words like "nigrescence", anyway?

[Septentrion]

Here is a quote regarding red hair in Westphalia from Beddoe:
“There is little in Holland (1.81%) and not much in Flanders (2.48%); but in Westphalia and other parts of the old Saxoii land I found as much as 3.8 per cent. The German red, however, usually verges on pale yellow; and the great unpopularity of the colour in Germany led to its being almost ignored by Virchow's schoolmaster-agents.”

And, here are Beddoe’s red hair percentages for the British Isles compiled by F. G. Parsons:
https://i.ibb.co/YQQdhdL/1-C319387-A7-C6-4-C1-A-B5-B6-C6726-F1-A55-B1.png (https://ibb.co/B336B6C)

Beddoe found the same percentage of red hair in Bristol, England as he did in some parts of Westphalia. However, the German red verges on pale yellow, barely distinctive, while the English red is brighter.

The red that verges on pale yellow is Golden blond. Coon numerously speaks about the reddish element in Golden blond. Beddoe had some bias against Celts too. There is no way that Germany is as ginger as England! Not even Scandinavian countries like Iceland or Norway are that ginger, then why Germany?

[Septentrion]

https://i.imgur.com/M1YKG.jpg

If Beddoe found this Norwegian Tydal man in Cornwall, Wales or Ireland he would be a nigrescented inferior 'celt'. What kind of moron makes up words like "nigrescence", anyway?

Who told you that guy who was of the Tydal ( Paleo Atlantid) phenotype? He has dark hair, yes, but that doesn’t make him automatically that? See.

[Septentrion]

I don’t know but many a times in studies of hair color in Eastern Europe and Germany can quite complicated for students of anthropology. The category of “dark blond” and “light brown” are many times fused. When they are separated, then the “dark blond” class is preferred over the “light brown” one, I don’t know why. It could be due to bias or image. For example in Germany or Poland, it is light brown which is the commonest, but you’ll see in both nations, it’d be called rather “dark blond”. We all know in those population that (light ) Brown hair overides blond.
For a example in a self - Survey made on 9,000 ethnic Germans.
I would only list the North German group stats:
(light) blond - Men (3.4%) Women (4.9%)
(medium) blond - Men (20.7%) Women (22.4%)
(dark) blond - Men (26.8%) Women (27.9%)
(light) brown - Men (6.0%) Women (9.4%)

So this is quite confusing, they are trying to make us believe that there is a “blond majority” in Germany. I am too smart to fall for such nonsense. There seem to be more Germans with medium blond hair than light brown. Come on now!

[Septentrion]

Beddoe’s definition of red is: “All shades of red which approach more nearly to red than to brown, yellow, or flaxen”

Yellow clearly refers to Golden blond. Beddoe did not count yellow/golden hair as red.
Golden blond hair is blondism combined with some rufosity as Carleton Stevens Coon a had already mentioned.

[Septentrion]

Numbers for Blond and light eyed you give are useless if we don't know the precise definitions of it in each case. There are many ways one can define "blond" as well as "light eyes". ToKneeHwin and Xenophobic prussian used consistent standards in their studies and both found Germany to be around 40% blond and England around 30%. That map I posted from Beddoe also directly compares two countries so it likely also uses equal criteria. Light gene map accurate? Are you stoned? It uses only a few data points for whole Europe the rest "map" is simply assumed from these limited data points. In other words they only used one location for whole Germany. That alone should be enough to disqualify this map from being an accurate representation of blondism. And those obviously aren't all genes, in eye color alone there are 15 genes that are involved. Besides the map is obviously horeseshit to anyone who isn't blind. Russians are not blonder than Swedes or Norwegians and Bulgarians aren't blonder than Romanians and equal to Slovenians. Since Russians and Bulgarians are surprisingly "light" we are probably dealing with "Slavic" or Eastern European genes. Most of England isn't Celtic so even if Beddoes was biased against Celtic peoples such as Irish it does not make him necessarily biased against his own country when comparing it's dark features to Germany. According to the map I posted most South German regions have a Nigrescence index higher than British average which makes sense. The average as a whole also isn't' much darker however Britain probably has more "dark" types due to darker hair.

England and Germany are not so different in terms of blondism. Your 40% mark would apply only to the northern parts not the whole of Germany.

[Septentrion]

German blonds

Schleswig - Holstein (far - north) = 46%
Lower Saxony, Bremen, Hamburg, Mecklenburg - Vorpommern (north) - 43%
Thuringia = 36%
Northern Brandenburg, Berlin area = 33%
Swabia = 32%
Northern Rhineland, Bavaria = 30%
Hesse = 22%
Ruhr = 21%
Saxony Free State = 20%
Rhineland Palatinate = 19%
Baden, Frankish Bavaria = 15% - 20%
Lusatia, Saarland = 15%

[Supercomputer]

England and Germany are not so different in terms of blondism. Your 40% mark would apply only to the northern parts not the whole of Germany.

Both TNH and XP found roughly 40% over the course of 10 years. Since most footballers changed over that period of time I count these as two separate studies and I don't think it's a coincidence. Too bad XP did not do a separate study on N and S germany. It would be really interesting.

[Septentrion]

Both TNH and XP found roughly 40% over the course of 10 years. Since most footballers changed over that period of time I count these as two separate studies and I don't think it's a coincidence. Too bad XP did not do a separate study on N and S germany. It would be really interesting.

It is not coincidence but bias. People have already made up their mind of what a German person should look like (blond and blue-eyed), therefore it’s hard to make proper judgement.
I had that biased belief as a child about Germans too, until I saw for myself.
A comparison between Germans and Dutch people shows that in both populations, blond hair decreases somewhat as one goes further south.

Dutch
Friesland - 43.2%
Groningen - 41.2%
Drenthe - 39.4%
Overijssel - 35.5%
Gelderland - 34.4%
South Holland - 31.4%
North Holland - 31.2%
Zeeland - 28.4%
North Brabant - 22.3%
Limburg - 21.8%
Utrecht - 20.1%

[Supercomputer]

It is not coincidence but bias. People have already made up their mind of what a German person should look like (blond and blue-eyed), therefore it’s hard to make proper judgement.
I had that biased belief as a child about Germans too, until I saw for myself.
A comparison between Germans and Dutch people shows that in both populations, blond hair decreases somewhat as one goes further south.

Dutch
Friesland - 43.2%
Groningen - 41.2%
Drenthe - 39.4%
Overijssel - 35.5%
Gelderland - 34.4%
South Holland - 31.4%
North Holland - 31.2%
Zeeland - 28.4%
North Brabant - 22.3%
Limburg - 21.8%
Utrecht - 20.1%

Bollocks. Anyone can check the footballers himself, there's no incentive for him to make it up. He would have just exposed himself. He made his sources available unlike you.

[Septentrion]

Bollocks. Anyone can check the footballers himself, there's no incentive for him to make it up. He would have just exposed himself. He made his sources available unlike you.

Ok. If you follow that faulty logic. Then we should also believe this blond hair map of England based on ethnic English football players from small casual teams going county by county. There are areas with as high as 60% fair - haired!
https://i.redd.it/tfd6fc6yms4z.png

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Then why are you so opposed to non-white immigration and race-mixing, if you actually want to look less white yourself? xD

"White" people (referring to Europeans) come in many natural skin tones from Northern Europe to Southern Europe, you'll find Darker skinned Northern Europeans and Paler skinned Southern Europeans. Not every White person looks like they just came out of Latvia.

[PlattitüdenPaule]

Well it doesnt get much fairer than me, but on the other hand I dont look that typically german.

[Zeno]

Yes, as they obv come from SSA.

[Richmondbread]

Opposite. They are typically very fair skinned , only with dark hair.

[Benyzero]

Opposite. They are typically very fair skinned , only with dark hair.

Usually the stereotypical german will be blonde haired.. They ofcourse not as blonde as scandinavians

[Richmondbread]

Usually the stereotypical german will be blonde haired.. They ofcourse not as blonde as scandinavians
. YOu
Not really. Most Germans have dark hair and light eyes - some times brown or hazel too. Blonde haired blue eye Germans are only the Hallstat tribe which is limited to Northern Germany. You'll find a lot more more blonde haired people in Lithuania.

[Östsvensk]

They can't be, for this is an old German children's rhyme:

Es ging spazieren vor dem Tor
ein kohlpechrabenschwarzer Mohr.
Die Sonne schien ihm aufs Gehirn,
da nahm er seinen Sonnenschirm.
Da kam der Ludwig hergerannt
und trug sein Fähnchen in der Hand.
Der Kaspar kam mit schnellem Schritt
und brachte seine Brezel mit.
Und auch der Wilhelm war nicht steif
und brachte seinen runden Reif.
Die schrien und lachten alle drei,
als dort das Mohrchen ging vorbei,
weil es so schwarz wie Tinte sei!

English by Google Translate:

We went for a walk in front of the gate
a coal-black moor.
The sun shone on his brain
so he took his parasol.
Then Ludwig came running
and carried his flag in hand.
Kaspar came with a quick step
and brought his pretzel.
And Wilhelm wasn't stiff either
and brought his round ring.
All three of them screamed and laughed
when the little Moor passed by
because it is as black as ink!

[Benyzero]

. YOu
Not really. Most Germans have dark hair and light eyes - some times brown or hazel too. Blonde haired blue eye Germans are only the Hallstat tribe which is limited to Northern Germany. You'll find a lot more more blonde haired people in Lithuania.

I doN't want to come with statistics and etc I leave that for others in this matter, but.. In my observation the typical german is light brown or fair haired, chestnut is common too - and light eyed

[Impaler]

It depends on the individual and the region. For example Germans could be dark haired like this Southern German bodybuilder from Stuttgart:

https://i.ibb.co/gVmTsTs/1620897-720898551274359-612610302-n.png (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/LZQwVsr/12718056-1111250075572536-7983313251798408722-n.jpg (https://ibb.co/hmX53Tc)


Or they could look like this Northern German from Hamburg:

https://i.ibb.co/C20D0n4/1200x675.jpg (https://ibb.co/zJfDfSC)
https://i.ibb.co/S01T0sc/stefan-effenberg-10429487.jpg (https://ibb.co/0ZWNZDK)

[Tauromachos]

medium

[Jana]

. YOu
Not really. Most Germans have dark hair and light eyes - some times brown or hazel too. Blonde haired blue eye Germans are only the Hallstat tribe which is limited to Northern Germany. You'll find a lot more more blonde haired people in Lithuania.

No. Majority of Germans have light hair.

[Latinus]

No. Majority of Germans have light hair.

German-Brazilians clearly have a significant bigger proportion of light brown/blonde hair compared to average white Brazilians of Southern Euro stock.

[Richmondbread]

No. Majority of Germans have light hair.

Not really. Lithuanians and Baltic peoples do. Most Germans have dark hair or brown hair.

[Jana]

Not really. Lithuanians and Baltic peoples do. Most Germans have dark hair or brown hair.

No, they don't. And your repeating of false claims won't change it.

[Richmondbread]

No, they don't. And your repeating of false claims won't change it.

Really, my dad's family is half German and they are all dark haired, some with blue eyes. The light haired ones are the Lithuanians. Not saying there aren't blondes in Germany, but they are the Hallstat tribe which is the section that was once Prussia. Bavarian are not usually blondes, nor are the ones from the Rhineland area.

[Jana]

Really, my dad's family is half German and they are all dark haired, some with blue eyes. The light haired ones are the Lithuanians. Not saying there aren't blondes in Germany, but they are the Hallstat tribe which is the section that was once Prussia.

More than half of Germans have some kind of light hair (like lighter shades of brown and dirty blond) so just because your family is dark haired that doesn't mean they represent the average.
Germans aren't very blond, but not dark haired either. And their hair color is on average lighter than British.

[Richmondbread]

More than half of Germans have some kind of light hair (like lighter shades of brown and dirty blond) so just because your family is dark haired that doesn't mean they represent the average.
Germans aren't very blond, but not dark haired either. And their hair color is on average lighter than British.

Ok, if you're talking averages, but they are kind of half/half. Depends on what part of Germany. But if you want to find a predominantly blonde country, you need to go to the Baltic states or up in Scandinavian territory.

[Septentrion]

No. Majority of Germans have light hair.

Lithuania is as a whole lighter - haired and lighter-eyed than Germany. Although regions in the northern part of Germany can be comparable.

[Septentrion]

More than half of Germans have some kind of light hair (like lighter shades of brown and dirty blond) so just because your family is dark haired that doesn't mean they represent the average.
Germans aren't very blond, but not dark haired either. And their hair color is on average lighter than British.

The Germans are not lighter - haired than the British. More than half of Britons also have light hair (blond, light brown, red, reddish - brown). Northern Germans generally do have more blond/blondish shades, while the British have more red/reddish shades (especially the Scottish and Welsh). The British also have more light eyes (especially bluer shades) than Germans, for example the Welsh who are generally the darkest -haired British, still score higher frequencies of blue eyes. For sure, British have less pigmentation than Germans, they tend to be fairer in complexion than Germans, with skins which easily burn and freckle. This is all linked to a higher percentage of red hair genes in their population. I do agree that the typical German has dark blond hair, light eyes but this doesn't make the Germans as a group lighter than the British, definitely not. The most common hair color in Germany is brown.

[Decius]

No lmfao

[Decius]

No. Majority of Germans have light hair.

or at least light brown

[Richmondbread]

or at least light brown

These are all examples of Germans with dark hair. There are plenty of them. Plenty!

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-89f1be9b59af4e41a6af58fe51d4be16.webp

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-811adbfbc242d20712203465443c9ec2.webp

http://binaryapi.ap.org/9e12bd6b4b7048109edc6f3ff0fa6184/512x.jpg

https://www.athletespeakers.com/storage/celebrities/1532533055_michael-ballack.jpg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dd85bded66e87b87981b08c0aa08dc1d

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/e9/f0/ebe9f0f81c330050b41e1bbbb86fe9d7.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/8a/28/a78a28088616991faed1c26f8195277d.jpg

[Komintasavalta]

No. Majority of Germans have light hair.

Not according to XP's study (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303744-XP-s-Europe-wide-pigmentation-study/page1):

https://i.imgur.com/SQeElbc.png

Also it depends on whether you use a two-option scale with only the options light or dark or a scale with a third option in the middle. I tried classifying the hair color of 143 male soccer players who I estimated to be native Estonians and 147 male soccer players who I estimated to be native Swedes. I basically used a three-option scale that consisted of the options light, medium, and dark, where medium brown and darker was not counted as light. I got a percentage of only 41% light hair for Estonians and 38% light hair for Swedes (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?335358-Are-Swedes-and-Norwegians-lighter-than-Estonians).

Or here's Germany's team in the 2021 junior hockey world cup (https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2021/wm20/teams/roster/17403/germany). Do you really think that more than 50% of these have light hair?

https://i.imgur.com/Kwq966A.jpg

[Jana]

Not according to XP's study (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303744-XP-s-Europe-wide-pigmentation-study/page1):

https://i.imgur.com/SQeElbc.png

Has Germany lighter than Lithuania. That's more like amount of dirty blonds + proper blonds, not light hair in total certanly, data doesn't make sense otherwise.


Or here's Germany's team in the 2021 junior hockey world cup (https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2021/wm20/teams/roster/17403/germany). Do you really think that more than 50% of these have light hair?

https://i.imgur.com/Kwq966A.jpg

Bunch of weirdos with odd faces and not filmed in daylight. Not very representative.

[Komintasavalta]

Has Germany lighter than Lithuania. That's more like amount of dirty blonds + proper blonds, not light hair in total certanly, data doesn't make sense otherwise.

In the case of the Baltic states, he might have failed to exclude Slavic people or natives mixed with Slavic people with native-sounding names. His figure for light hair in Estonia was 75% of his figure for Sweden even though mine was 108%.

According to XP's map, he counted something like this or lighter as light-colored hair:

https://i.ibb.co/3zgTXQm/20210203053025.jpg


Bunch of weirdos with odd faces

They're top athletes close to their peak age, so they should have much better faces than average people.

[Jana]

According to XP's map, he counted something like this or lighter as light-colored hair:

https://i.ibb.co/3zgTXQm/20210203053025.jpg

That's average hair color in Germany.

[Luso]

How is Mats Hummels dark skinned?

You anthroguys should worry about more important issues

Every sane German tries to get a tan

olive skin looks good


No normal human being would ever come up with the idea that sicilians arent white.

You should realize TA is madhouse and physical anthropology is a pseudo science mostly for aspergers.

You are the most based person in this thread. I applaud you.

[Supercomputer]

The Germans are not lighter - haired than the British. More than half of Britons also have light hair (blond, light brown, red, reddish - brown). Northern Germans generally do have more blond/blondish shades, while the British have more red/reddish shades (especially the Scottish and Welsh). The British also have more light eyes (especially bluer shades) than Germans, for example the Welsh who are generally the darkest -haired British, still score higher frequencies of blue eyes. For sure, British have less pigmentation than Germans, they tend to be fairer in complexion than Germans, with skins which easily burn and freckle. This is all linked to a higher percentage of red hair genes in their population. I do agree that the typical German has dark blond hair, light eyes but this doesn't make the Germans as a group lighter than the British, definitely not. The most common hair color in Germany is brown.

The Germans are lighter haired than the English, but darker eyed.

[Septentrion]

The Germans are lighter haired than the English, but darker eyed.

This would only apply to Northern Germans, not the entire Germany. Approximately 70% of the English have light - haired, but most of the light hair is not very blond shades rather in light browns (mousy) and also red hair.

[Supercomputer]

Or here's Germany's team in the 2021 junior hockey world cup (https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2021/wm20/teams/roster/17403/germany). Do you really think that more than 50% of these have light hair?

https://i.imgur.com/Kwq966A.jpg

Bad lighting plus potentially moistly hair. I would say 9 out of 24 are dark blonde/light haired, that's 37.5% - very close to what XP found (38.8%)

[Jana]

This would only apply to Northern Germans, not the entire Germany.

Germany as a whole is lighter haired than UK and Ireland. Deal with it.

[Septentrion]

Germany as a whole is lighter haired than UK and Ireland. Deal with it.

The UK and Ireland are not equally blond! Where did you get that nonsense? Within the UK, England is the lightest - haired while Wales is darkest - haired. Germany is not lighter - haired than England and parts of Scotland. The only part of Germany which may lighter - haired be North Germany. However the eastern parts of England and Scotland are quite comparable. You deal with it now.

[Übermensch]

English people are way blonder than Germans on average, England is comparable to the neetherlands and northewst germany in terms of blondness...

[Alexandro]

On average? No, but some are swarthy, yes.

I remember seeing a lot of type I and II people with lighter colored hair last time I visited, and have certainly never considered them as being a particularly "dark" population, that is just nonsense.

[Supercomputer]

English people are way blonder than Germans on average, England is comparable to the neetherlands and northewst germany in terms of blondness...

No its not. Germans are blonder than English.

[Übermensch]

No its not. Germans are blonder than English.

Only north germans, and not by much.
Central and South Germans are a lot darker than the English

[Supercomputer]

Only north germans, and not by much.
Central and South Germans are a lot darker than the English

Only Bavarians might have darker hair than the English. The rest of Germany is definitely lighter haired.

[Übermensch]

Only Bavarians might have darker hair than the English. The rest of Germany is definitely lighter haired.

Nope, south and central Germans are much darker haired than the English,English people are predominantly light brown haired, with a strong blond minority and with a minor brunette component, South Germans are mostly medium/dark brown haired...

[Übermensch]

Only Bavarians might have darker hair than the English. The rest of Germany is definitely lighter haired.

Nope, south and central Germans are much darker haired than the English,English people are predominantly light brown haired, with a strong blond minority and with a minor brunette component, South Germans are mostly medium/dark brown haired...

[Septentrion]

English people are way blonder than Germans on average, England is comparable to the neetherlands and northewst germany in terms of blondness...

Correct. I recall according to your stats, you ranked the English at 80% light - haired, with their majority being light or medium brown shades. The English resemble more the Dutch and North - West Germans. The areas from where their Germanic ancestors came from. Physical anthropologists ranked England more Nordic in race than Germany as well.

[Septentrion]

Only Bavarians might have darker hair than the English. The rest of Germany is definitely lighter haired.

Only Bavaria? Come on. The Fehmarn Islanders of N.E. Germany in the Baltic region despite having as much as 78% for light eyes, 50% + were found to have dark brown hair. This is darker than Ireland and England is overall lighter - haired than Ireland. Not only Bavarians, those of Baden, Hesse, Ruhr and Rhine regions, Lusatia, Fehmarn are as a whole darker - haired let alone darker - eyed. Great population migrations and movement throughout Germany is making more difficult. Germans from the Old Prussia after WWII who were expelled from East - Central Europe from blonder regions have also moved into more central or southern regions of Germany.

[Tauromachos]

Only Bavarians might have darker hair than the English. The rest of Germany is definitely lighter haired.

Bavaria wasn't that dark when i visited there is many light or fair type Bavarians too

The darkest Germans i have met were in Rhineland

[Septentrion]

Bavaria wasn't that dark when i visited there is many light or fair type Bavarians too

The darkest Germans i have met were in Rhineland

There you go.

[Septentrion]

No its not. Germans are blonder than English.

John Beddoe samples of 4877 Germans and 1021 Dutch shows fair hair to reach 21% among Germans and 25% among the Dutch. For the English, some 8380 people fair hair was found in 23%. The Scots according to Beddoe were found to be 25% fair - haired just like the Dutch, only the Welsh scored 19%. You like sources, don't you? There you go.

[Supercomputer]

Nope, south and central Germans are much darker haired than the English,English people are predominantly light brown haired, with a strong blond minority and with a minor brunette component, South Germans are mostly medium/dark brown haired...

There is a big difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany in hair colour. Germany as a whole is blonder than England according to two studies done over last 10 years. I have not seen any study where English are blonder.

[PaleoEuropean]

Germany is a confederation of semi-related people with an immense amount of variation especially in the alpine regions where east, west and south meet.

[Komintasavalta]

Bad lighting plus potentially moistly hair. I would say 9 out of 24 are dark blonde/light haired, that's 37.5% - very close to what XP found (38.8%)

So what about Germany's team in the 2019 men's hockey world championship (https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2019/wm/teams/roster/3696/germany)?

https://i.ibb.co/s913hDL/a.jpg

Even when using liberal criteria for what counts as light-colored hair, I don't think it makes sense to say that the majority of non-elderly adult ethnic Germans have light-colored hair.

[Supercomputer]

John Beddoe samples of 4877 Germans and 1021 Dutch shows fair hair to reach 21% among Germans and 25% among the Dutch. For the English, some 8380 people fair hair was found in 23%. The Scots according to Beddoe were found to be 25% fair - haired just like the Dutch, only the Welsh scored 19%. You like sources, don't you? There you go.

This means nothing unless you give the link or at least a screenshot of the study. Besides, wasn't it you yourself who dismissed Beddoe as unreliable when I was the one sourcing him?

[Supercomputer]

So what about Germany's team in the 2019 men's hockey world championship (https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2019/wm/teams/roster/3696/germany)?

https://i.ibb.co/s913hDL/a.jpg

Even when using liberal criteria for what counts as light-colored hair, I don't think it makes sense to say that the majority of non-elderly adult ethnic Germans have light-colored hair.

I'm not using liberal criteria, like I sadi the issue is lighting. I never said most Germans have light hair, I said around 40% of them do.

[Septentrion]

There is a big difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany in hair colour. Germany as a whole is blonder than England according to two studies done over last 10 years. I have not seen any study where English are blonder.

Studies or personal observations. There is no big difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany. Rather between Bavaria and Northern Germany. England is overall lighter - haired due to the fact that it does not have the extreme North vs South gradient of Germany.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/photo-by-incidence-of-blond-hair-in-europe-melrorross-cc-by-sa-4-0.jpg

https://external-preview.redd.it/zKOQPu5OVx_FDjrL5HNaaMJplXGzFt-eCLMU8llJ_pw.jpg?auto=webp&8a42c684

[Token]

If Germans are swarthy, then 90% of Europe is swarthier.

[Supercomputer]

So what about Germany's team in the 2019 men's hockey world championship (https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2019/wm/teams/roster/3696/germany)?

https://i.ibb.co/s913hDL/a.jpg

Even when using liberal criteria for what counts as light-colored hair, I don't think it makes sense to say that the majority of non-elderly adult ethnic Germans have light-colored hair.

Look at their pupils. They're dialed suggesting bad lighting.

Just as a side note, the frequency of light eyes in this and the previous sample you provided is 35/49 or 71,4% - very close to what Virchow found (72,7%)

[XenophobicPrussian]

This means nothing unless you give the link or at least a screenshot of the study. Besides, wasn't it you yourself who dismissed Beddoe as unreliable when I was the one sourcing him?
Yes, when I sourced Beddoe on Irish vs English hair pigmentation he called Beddoe biased and unreliable. Only recently has Sept agreed to regional differences in the British Isles, before he would claim Irish are no different from English in hair colour, and even Germans/Scandos(not only skin and eye colour like he does now).

It's possible, but highly unlikely Beddoe actually looked at both the British Islanders and Germans together himself, Germans/Dutch might be from a local source, etc. He just posted Coon's mixed eye/light hair pigmentation index map edited by some random guy to be a hair colour map as a hair colour map, which shows you how much he knows about anything.

[Supercomputer]

Studies or personal observations. There is no big difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany. Rather between Bavaria and Northern Germany. England is overall lighter - haired due to the fact that it does not have the extreme North vs South gradient of Germany.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/photo-by-incidence-of-blond-hair-in-europe-melrorross-cc-by-sa-4-0.jpg

https://external-preview.redd.it/zKOQPu5OVx_FDjrL5HNaaMJplXGzFt-eCLMU8llJ_pw.jpg?auto=webp&8a42c684

It is according to Virchow. I have made a map about it which you have seen.

England isn't lighter haired than Germany. This Nigerscence map compares British to Germans and only a few German regions in the South have higher index while most of Germany has lower level.

https://i.postimg.cc/rFMr7MWB/nigrescence-germany-parsons.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The map you posted isn't a hair colour map, it's just a combination of Coon's hair and eye colour map (which has many innacuracies itself) and Peter Frost's map which is ridiculous.

[Tauromachos]

I already said that Germans are not swarthy by European standards but by Anglo-Sphere standards they are; so, I haven't got a clue about what you are talking about here. This guys skin is darker than most English, Scottish and Irish people but I'm not so sure about Wales as the Welsh are the darkest Britons even darker than the Cornish.

Some Welsh look so woggish it hurts :lol:

[Red Pill]

Blondism in England and Germany are somehow different. In England it is more reddish and golden, while in Germany still golden but verges more towards ashen colors. Coon, Lundman finds eastern Britain to be of a Scandinavian level of blondism. Ripley finds England to be 40% blond. Coon finds the North Sea shore of England to be as high as 90% light-eyed. Gunther estimates Britain to be more Nordid than Germany. The light hair and eye gene map is lot more accurate than anthropological one. Ok.
Beddoe was bias against Celtic Britons. To even call Irish folks, Africanoids and linked it to “prognathism”. This is rubbish!

Do you have references to those statements from Lundman and Gunther (correct sources, links etc)? My impression from pictures and movies is that generally Brits are less blond than Germans. For instance, looking at pics of British and German ww2 soldiers I have the impression that the latter look blonder and more "stereotypically" Nordic. Maybe that in part depends on the fact that German soldiers used to wear their hair longer. I read Lundman's book about Swedish racial types, he uses a combination of cephalic index and pigmentation in his classification, but ignores facial phenotype (physiognomy, which is a much more complex trait). Low cephalic index is common among Mediterraneans too, thus it's not surprising to find it among British Atlantid and Atlanto-mediterranean types. Coon wrote that Nordics are basically de-pigmented Mediterraneans, but that ignores other cranial features and physiognomy. If you took an average Swede and dyed his/her hair black with brown contacts he/she wouldn't look Southern European.

Anyway, the OP doesn't make much sense because in general it's evident that ethnic Germans are on the fair side of skin pigmentation, mostly type 2 with a minority of 3 in the Fitzpatrick scale. Maybe "Anglo" perception of "swarthy" Germans is due to the fact that they have less type 1 than in the British islands, but calling them swarthy seems a bit ridiculous.

[Lousianaboy]

im dirty blonde, I think I got the typical get,an pigmentation, pale skin, dirty blonde hair, hazel eyes a bit freckled

[Gründig]

im dirty blonde, I think I got the typical get,an pigmentation, pale skin, dirty blonde hair, hazel eyes a bit freckled

Let’s do steroids chaaaaa brahhhh

[Septentrion]

Do you have references to those statements from Lundman and Gunther (correct sources, links etc)? My impression from pictures and movies is that generally Brits are less blond than Germans. For instance, looking at pics of British and German ww2 soldiers I have the impression that the latter look blonder and more "stereotypically" Nordic. Maybe that in part depends on the fact that German soldiers used to wear their hair longer. I read Lundman's book about Swedish racial types, he uses a combination of cephalic index and pigmentation in his classification, but ignores facial phenotype (physiognomy, which is a much more complex trait). Low cephalic index is common among Mediterraneans too, thus it's not surprising to find it among British Atlantid and Atlanto-mediterranean types. Coon wrote that Nordics are basically de-pigmented Mediterraneans, but that ignores other cranial features and physiognomy. If you took an average Swede and dyed his/her hair black with brown contacts he/she wouldn't look Southern European.

Anyway, the OP doesn't make much sense because in general it's evident that ethnic Germans are on the fair side of skin pigmentation, mostly type 2 with a minority of 3 in the Fitzpatrick scale. Maybe "Anglo" perception of "swarthy" Germans is due to the fact that they have less type 1 than in the British islands, but calling them swarthy seems a bit ridiculous.

Do you even know what you are talking about? Gunther theories form the racial basis for the Nazis! Gunther was just as bad as the Nazis were! The only difference is that, he didn’t act upon his belief as the Nazis did. Now the reality is that even a prick like Gunther recognized the British Islanders to be more Nordic in race than the Germans as a whole. According to the idiots ( Nazis):
The Nordic race made up:
Sweden - over 80%
Norway - 80%:
Britain - 60%
Germany - 55%
France - 25%
Russia - 25%

Denmark was not seen to be compared to Norway and Sweden, as it was said to have strong East Baltic strains.

[Luso]

Let’s do steroids chaaaaa brahhhh

But can he grow a marvelous mustache? This is the important question.

[Septentrion]

Do you have references to those statements from Lundman and Gunther (correct sources, links etc)? My impression from pictures and movies is that generally Brits are less blond than Germans. For instance, looking at pics of British and German ww2 soldiers I have the impression that the latter look blonder and more "stereotypically" Nordic. Maybe that in part depends on the fact that German soldiers used to wear their hair longer. I read Lundman's book about Swedish racial types, he uses a combination of cephalic index and pigmentation in his classification, but ignores facial phenotype (physiognomy, which is a much more complex trait). Low cephalic index is common among Mediterraneans too, thus it's not surprising to find it among British Atlantid and Atlanto-mediterranean types. Coon wrote that Nordics are basically de-pigmented Mediterraneans, but that ignores other cranial features and physiognomy. If you took an average Swede and dyed his/her hair black with brown contacts he/she wouldn't look Southern European.

Anyway, the OP doesn't make much sense because in general it's evident that ethnic Germans are on the fair side of skin pigmentation, mostly type 2 with a minority of 3 in the Fitzpatrick scale. Maybe "Anglo" perception of "swarthy" Germans is due to the fact that they have less type 1 than in the British islands, but calling them swarthy seems a bit ridiculous.



Coon states it so well:

“To summarize the data on the physical anthropology of Germany it seems necessary to stress the relative absence of conventional Nordics comparable to those found in eastern Norway, in Sweden, and in England.”

[Septentrion]

There is a big difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany in hair colour. Germany as a whole is blonder than England according to two studies done over last 10 years. I have not seen any study where English are blonder.

You said studies? Are you sure, they were done by professionals such as anthropologists or from medical studies? If you say you have not seen studies which shows British lighter then you have a long way to go. As it is the 21st century, we have more choices. We do not have to rely on different scales, because this could vary from one individual to another, what one might "fair" might not be to another or "dark". Therefore genetics go deeper than that.
This is more precise study based on genes for fair hair and light eyes throughout the European continent.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Alleles.png/800px-Alleles.png

The British Islands do not appear to be darker whether in hair or color than Germany. And for those who wanted to compare Austria with Britain, they are nowhere close genetically. The British and Irish have far more genes for light hair and light eyes.

[Septentrion]

Some Welsh look so woggish it hurts :lol:

The Welsh are definitely not woggish. They have the highest frequency of red hair genes in the British Isles according to this relatively recent study.
Posted below:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/24/article-2401346-1B7041FC000005DC-552_634x757.jpg
Depending on classifications of what is red hair (pure red, orange, strawberry blond, auburn, titian, reddish brown), 10% to 15% of the Welsh have red hair. This is higher than any nation outside of the British Isles, Germany included. The vast majority of Welsh as other Celtic people belong to skin phototype 1and 2, this is as fair - skinned as it gets. Thus, there is nothing Woggy about them.

[Septentrion]

The Germans are lighter haired than the English, but darker eyed.

You also forgot to note that despite the fact that the majority of Germans have light eyes (blue/gray/green, etc...). The most common eye color in the entire Germany is brown! This is not the case with the British Isles. This I get from my German source. Although brown eyes are even more frequent in the south than the north. This is the order, I get from this German source concerning eye color in their population.
- Brown (1st)
- Green, Grey, Grey - blue,
- Blue (These are most frequent in the northern states)

[LorenzoSpitaleri]

A few are. Matthew Heimbach, Joseph and Hans Goebbels come to mind.

[Richmondbread]

A few are. Matthew Heimbach, Joseph and Hans Goebbels come to mind.

Matthem Heimbach? He's just fat and pasty. Not swarthy. Fatter than me too.

[LorenzoSpitaleri]

Matthem Heimbach? He's just fat and pasty. Not swarthy. Fatter than me too.
He's pale but his hair is very dark and he doesn't look extraordinarily nordic to me, but maybe that's just the fat.

[Richmondbread]

He's pale but his hair is very dark and he doesn't look extraordinarily nordic to me, but maybe that's just the fat.

Having dark hair doesn't make someone look swarthy. Otherwise half the people in Ireland would be labeled as that.

[Supercomputer]

This is more precise study based on genes for fair hair and light eyes throughout the European continent.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Alleles.png/800px-Alleles.png

The British Islands do not appear to be darker whether in hair or color than Germany. And for those who wanted to compare Austria with Britain, they are nowhere close genetically. The British and Irish have far more genes for light hair and light eyes.

That shitty map again? Are you serious? This is the worst map of pigmentation I have ever seen. According to this Russians are lighter than Swedes :picard1:

[Supercomputer]

You also forgot to note that despite the fact that the majority of Germans have light eyes (blue/gray/green, etc...). The most common eye color in the entire Germany is brown! This is not the case with the British Isles.

No they are not. Blue eyes are the most common colour in Germany at 39%. Brown (or dark) eyes are a mere 27%

[Septentrion]

No they are not. Blue eyes are the most common colour in Germany at 39%. Brown (or dark) eyes are a mere 27%

Not according to this German source, they are not! Actually the green, gray, gray - blue class is more common than just blue for Germans.

[Septentrion]

That shitty map again? Are you serious? This is the worst map of pigmentation I have ever seen. According to this Russians are lighter than Swedes :picard1:


It is not a shitty map!!! It is based on genetical studies, OK. I would not think of Russia being the largest country as being lighter than Sweden. It is much more recent. The map shows you well that Germany is not what you thought it was. You can see the various genes studied there.

[Immanenz]

Coon states it so well:

“To summarize the data on the physical anthropology of Germany it seems necessary to stress the relative absence of conventional Nordics comparable to those found in eastern Norway, in Sweden, and in England.”

Coon included Keltic/ lighter haired Atlantids as Nordid. (Nordic-Med in Hooton) He would call also dark haired Atlantids as Meds so dont think you would applaud this. He would include any light haired Meds as Nordics even North Africans Kabyles etc- so this sounds pretty plausible.:rolleyes:
There are a decent amont of Nordic types in Germany that would fit the criteria "looking Germanic". Also even the Swedish average morph looks like Nordic- Cm mix, so this splitting is nonsensical- just like the below average classifier (you) is not able to seperate it anyway.

[Septentrion]

The English are fairer than Central or Southern Germans. They are overall much comparable to the Northern Germans. As they are already lighter - eyed and lighter - skinned with higher frequency of light hair ( red + blond + light brown shades.

[XenophobicPrussian]

It is not a shitty map!!! It is based on genetical studies, OK. I would not think of Russia being the largest country as being lighter than Sweden. It is much more recent. The map shows you well that Germany is not what you thought it was. You can see the various genes studied there.
Yes, and if you look them up you will see 1 out of the 3 aren't even related with blondism and the two that are have different distribution shown from an actual DNA company. I've already explained this to you a thousand times, that isn't any sort of genetical study, it is a blogger posting about genome files he has, from 9 years ago, some ethnicities literally having single digit sample sizes. I'll literally tell you the sample size of any ethnicity he has there. The population with the highest frequency of derived alleles of those 3 are Moksha people, a whopping number of 5 Moksha. Next up is Belarus, a whopping number of 8 genomes, Lithuania has 17, Germans 19. Not one ethnicity gets anywhere close to sufficient sample sizes.

This from 23andme based on who the fuck knows how many European customers they had in 2015 is still the closest thing anyone has ever done to a professional study on rates of SNPs associated with blondism:

https://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/blond_hair_snps-640x196.jpg

and genes/the HIRISPLEX system only predict hair colour at birth, there is no genetic predictions for adult hair colour, will probably have a lot to do with hormones and not only derived alleles on an SNP(and of course all the SNPs related to it aren't even found yet, a 2018 paper alone found 200+). It also works on probability, this is literally how accurate it can be:

https://i.redd.it/ijinr9o3fmy41.jpg

[Komintasavalta]

That shitty map again? Are you serious? This is the worst map of pigmentation I have ever seen. According to this Russians are lighter than Swedes :picard1:

I think they're Mordvins and not Russian (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2011/10/pigmentation-genetics-of-europeans.html):


Indeed, I'm a bit taken aback by the very high rate of suggested blondism among the Belorussians and Mordvinians (second highest dot in Russia). This might have something to do with sampling bias. Perhaps most of the 12 Belorussians and 16 Mordvinians used here came from fairer than average communities within their respective nations?

[Septentrion]

Yes. They are blonder than Brits as a whole, while the proportion of olive-skinned people is about the same as Brits (around 5%).

The proportion of olive - skinned? Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Are you all there? The British and Irish are even lighter - skinned than Scandinavians or Balts, let alone Germans.

[Septentrion]

I think they're Mordvins and not Russian (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2011/10/pigmentation-genetics-of-europeans.html):


Indeed, I'm a bit taken aback by the very high rate of suggested blondism among the Belorussians and Mordvinians (second highest dot in Russia). This might have something to do with sampling bias. Perhaps most of the 12 Belorussians and 16 Mordvinians used here came from fairer than average communities within their respective nations?

Oh I see. So it was Germans who had scored so high. You would not be taken aback, but because it’s Mordvinians and Byelorussians, you have doubts. Germans are not fairer than White Russians and Mordvinians. The great blondism is centered in the lands of Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finnic lands, NW Russia. There are plenty of East Baltids there.

[Septentrion]

Not according to this German source, they are not! Actually the green, gray, gray - blue class is more common than just blue for Germans.

I have to admit that you are pretty good with your sources. However, I will advise you to "step up" just a little. Now since you like sources, the most recent professional study (by academics) done on Germans from Northern, Central and Southern Germany, concerning eye and hair colors by the University of Saarland in 2008. It is one of my sources. The study published in the German language (Deutsche) shows the following:

1) Braune Augen (brown eyes) - 31.05%
2) Blaue Augen (blue eyes) - 30.20%
3) Grune Augen (green eyes) - 18.36%
4) Graue Augen (gray eyes) - 3.35%
5) Gemischte Augen (mixed eyes) - 17%

Thus approximately 69% of the German population is light or mixed - eyed. The biggest difference between the British and Germans in eye color is that in Britain as in Northern Europe, blue eyes are the most common!

[Septentrion]

According to my sources, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands are more blond-haired than Germany as a whole. However comparable areas are in the north, Schleswig - Holstein, Hamburg, Bremen, Lower Saxony have many pure blonds. On the other hand, there are many more brown - haired (braun) and black - haired (schwarz) among German - speakers of Bavaria, Baden-Wurttemberg, Austria and Switzerland.