Iron Age Rome DNA

[Alexa]

Can somebody add it on the K15 cluster map ?


KIT NR: AG4512653

PuntDNAL K10

# Population Percent
1 ENF 39.16
2 WHG 34.04
3 CHG 22.81
4 Amerindian 1.78
5 Siberian 0.69
6 ASI 0.67
7 Oceanian 0.49
8 Sub-Saharan 0.35

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_North 4.07
2 Tuscan 4.31
3 Albanian 4.72
4 Italian_South 5.15
5 Greek 5.87
6 Bulgarian 7.12
7 Spanish_Southwest 11.06
8 French 11.07
9 Sicilian 12.05
10 Spanish_Northeast 12.49
11 Ashkenazi_Jew 12.94
12 German_South 14.64
13 Croatian 14.83
14 Hungarian 16.51
15 Utahn_white 17.14
16 Irish 18.03
17 English_South 19.18
18 Sephardic_Jew 20.02
19 German_North 20.94
20 Czech 21.13

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.6% French + 35.4% Sephardic_Jew @ 1.67
2 87.7% Italian_South + 12.3% Estonian @ 1.93
3 86.6% Italian_North + 13.4% Turkish_Aydin @ 1.93
4 80% Italian_South + 20% English_South @ 1.94
5 79% Italian_South + 21% Irish @ 1.94
6 87.1% Italian_South + 12.9% Finnish @ 1.94
7 88.3% Italian_North + 11.7% Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.95
8 75.5% Italian_South + 24.5% Croatian @ 1.95
9 82.6% Italian_South + 17.4% Scottish_West @ 1.96
10 91% Italian_North + 9% Iranian @ 1.98
11 80.9% Greek + 19.1% Basque_Spanish @ 2.01
12 89.7% Italian_North + 10.3% Kurdish @ 2.01
13 71.7% Spanish_Northeast + 28.3% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.02
14 78.2% Italian_South + 21.8% Utahn_white @ 2.03
15 69.1% Greek + 30.9% Spanish_Northeast @ 2.03
16 84.5% Italian_South + 15.5% Icelandic @ 2.07
17 84.5% Italian_South + 15.5% Norwegian @ 2.07
18 75.4% Italian_South + 24.6% German_South @ 2.07
19 77.6% Italian_South + 22.4% Hungarian @ 2.07
20 88.3% Italian_South + 11.7% Lithuanian @ 2.09





Eurogenes k15




Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.57
2 East_Med 17.21
3 West_Med 16.93
4 North_Sea 13.45
5 West_Asian 9.45
6 Baltic 7.99
7 Eastern_Euro 4.79
8 Red_Sea 3.77
9 Siberian 1.03
10 Amerindian 0.55
11 Oceanian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.14
2 Tuscan 6.17
3 Italian_Abruzzo 10.89
4 West_Sicilian 11.02
5 Greek 11.31
6 Spanish_Andalucia 11.34
7 Spanish_Extremadura 11.51
8 Spanish_Murcia 11.59
9 Bulgarian 11.87
10 Portuguese 12.23
11 Spanish_Valencia 12.26
12 Spanish_Cataluna 12.5
13 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.51
14 Romanian 12.52
15 Greek_Thessaly 12.59
16 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.28
17 Spanish_Galicia 13.48
18 Serbian 13.73
19 Central_Greek 14.34
20 East_Sicilian 14.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 40.3% Southwest_French @ 2.77
2 70.6% Southwest_French + 29.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.83
3 69.6% Southwest_French + 30.4% Assyrian @ 2.83
4 70.9% Southwest_French + 29.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.03
5 66.6% Southwest_French + 33.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.2
6 54.3% Greek + 45.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.28
7 53.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 46.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.37
8 57.7% Greek + 42.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.44
9 50.7% Greek + 49.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.45
10 52.2% Greek + 47.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.5
11 70.2% Southwest_French + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.51
12 61.3% Ashkenazi + 38.7% French_Basque @ 3.53
13 52.6% Central_Greek + 47.4% Southwest_French @ 3.55
14 54.2% Spanish_Valencia + 45.8% Central_Greek @ 3.62
15 70.5% Spanish_Valencia + 29.5% Turkish @ 3.62
16 75.7% Spanish_Valencia + 24.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.73
17 56.7% Spanish_Valencia + 43.3% Ashkenazi @ 3.76
18 75.3% Spanish_Valencia + 24.7% Assyrian @ 3.76
19 52.8% Greek + 47.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.78
20 58.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 41.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.78

[Jana]

Plots more or less the same like BA/IA Croatian samples (Illyrians)

[Alexa]

Plots more or less the same like BA/IA Croatian samples (Illyrians)


Nah it is more East shifted as I predicted and almost clusters with some Albanians

https://i.imgur.com/bwKs7wi.png


But it is obviously clustering with Tuscans / North Italian populations . Just that the average on K15 isn't very good and not much diverse samples as can also be seen by the distance it gets that's why I added other calculator.


There were some other samples found and apparently they were more like Iberians or something, at least they were shifting towards there but still don't think they were like Iberians but just West shifted Italians since Iberians lack west asian that Italians and Balkan people have , there was also an Etruscan found I think that was a J2b2-L283 and matches the one in Croatia which was a 7 year old boy so it's possible the Etruscan was an immigrant from Illyria


There was also an Etruscan found many years ago apparently that clustered around with Bulgarians or Albanians, even more East than this . I will try and get my hands on all these samples and add them. Also dig up some old Thracians etc.

[Alexa]

Albanians:

https://i.imgur.com/4vEC9YX.jpg

[Alexa]

Based on Ancient samples found in the Balkans and in Italy, what can be seen is that there was a East - West cline among ancient populations in these regions and a genetic overlap .

I will try add demonstrate this as I get more samples added. After Slavic influx this genetic overlap basically has been cut off .... but you can see why some Albanians today overlap with Tuscans/ North Italians somewhat while some of those Illyrian samples clustered well into Italy on k15 which is more West shifted

They weren't really really like Iberians since they scored West Asian also which is non-existant in Iberians but more like West shifted type of Italians / Albanians. With some few edits you can make modern Albanians shift that west too.

[Arch Hades]

Pretty cool how North Italians are genetically the closest of modern populations to the old true Romans. As I had predicted years and years ago.

Now lets get some Patrician genomes if we can.

[Alexa]

Pretty cool how North Italians are genetically the closest of modern populations to the old true Romans. As I had predicted years and years ago.

Now lets get some Patrician genomes if we can.

This sample is basically like a Tuscan / North Italian . An Eastern shifted version I assume.

Apparently some others were shifting way more West so I will try and get them.

I am still learning how to do all this


I found this sample on some other forum


Italy is a very diverse region even North Italy and Tuscany .... there is a branch of North Italy / Tuscany that is East shifted and almost touch the Albanian cluster while another shift towards Iberians etc....

But the average K15 doesn't show this but you can see this by the Puntdnal calculator, where this sample plots and what it gets.

You can make a North Italian average that clusters more East also for example.


There needs to be added much more samples for use onto these calculators to get more diversity.

[TheOldNorth]

Plots more or less the same like BA/IA Croatian samples (Illyrians)

Makes me wonder if the Illyrians come from the same ethnic stock as the italic peoples even if not the same linguistic stock

[TheOldNorth]

https://youtu.be/Jsh4SvPdfl8

Well I guess he wasn’t wrong about the original Sicilian ay

[Alexa]

Makes me wonder if the Illyrians come from the same ethnic stock as the italic peoples even if not the same linguistic stock

genetic similarity / overlap among South Euros

Greeks, Albanians, Italians etc all seem to overlap somewhat and before Slavic migrations a lot of Illyrians clustered really West too maybe some Thracians too . Thracian samples have been really diverse. You probably could find Illyrians / Thracians that clustered Greek-like too.


I think a Bronze Age from Montenegro was clustering South of those Albanians on that map around Abruzzo or Sicily actually.


It is basically just random based on frequency they score or have picked up such as WHG + EHG + CHG + EEF etc . it's impossible for these to be evenly distributed , especially in a larger area . This is also why that Vucedol was actually more South-East than those two samples in Dalmatia despite being geographically more North.


This is why clustering isn't always the best way to identify a population. Language , culture and even Y-DNA can tell us a lot rather than just clustering.


We need way more Iron Age or later time Balkan samples from West also.... there used to be some from East but all were deleted.


Though it is possible some Pre-Latin populations in Italy could of also been related to Balkan populations linguistically such as Etruscans maybe related to Albanians linguistically .


They seem at least some of them to of been quite Albanian like.

[Samnium]

https://youtu.be/Jsh4SvPdfl8

Well I guess he wasn’t wrong about the original Sicilian ay

A joke. Those who take what is said in this movie seriously are ridiculous.

[TheOldNorth]

A joke. Those who take what is said in this movie seriously are ridiculous.

Hey look it works!

[TheOldNorth]

genetic similarity / overlap among South Euros

Greeks, Albanians, Italians etc all seem to overlap somewhat and before Slavic migrations a lot of Illyrians clustered really West too maybe some Thracians too . Thracian samples have been really diverse. You probably could find Illyrians / Thracians that clustered Greek-like too.


I think a Bronze Age from Montenegro was clustering South of those Albanians on that map around Abruzzo or Sicily actually.


It is basically just random based on frequency they score or have picked up such as WHG + EHG + CHG + EEF etc . it's impossible for these to be evenly distributed , especially in a larger area . This is also why that Vucedol was actually more South-East than those two samples in Dalmatia despite being geographically more North.


This is why clustering isn't always the best way to identify a population. Language , culture and even Y-DNA can tell us a lot rather than just clustering.


We need way more Iron Age or later time Balkan samples from West also.... there used to be some from East but all were deleted.


Though it is possible some Pre-Latin populations in Italy could of also been related to Balkan populations linguistically such as Etruscans maybe related to Albanians linguistically .


They seem at least some of them to of been quite Albanian like.

I seriously doubt that Etruscan is related to Albanian, but yes more genetic work is needed and more samples are needed in order to definitively say exactly how all of the populations fit together back in those days...

[Samnium]

Anyway there was even a sample plotting with Southwest french people for "West shifting", Aquitanians are slighlty east shifted Basques basically. I would say that was a foreigner definitely.

[Bosniensis]

Bulgarian 7.12

This proves that Slavs were biologically present on Balkans in Iron Age and that Thracians are Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians.

It's unreasonable to expect that Thracian score Northern Italy

Here is my Punt. K10

# Population Percent
1 WHG 38.86
2 ENF 29.4
3 CHG 28.64
4 Amerindian 1.26
5 Sub-Saharan 1.2
6 E_Asian 0.48
7 Beringian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.67
2 Hungarian 6.38
3 Croatian 6.64
4 German_South 8.1
5 Irish 8.82

Being from Balkans, Having Bulgarian and Irish (Celtic, Illyrian, Thracian mix)

[Alexa]

This again debunks everything people here said.

Some people here claimed East shift in Albanians and Balkans is from later arrival or from Slavs. This dude almost clusters with some of those Ghegs.

If an East shift reached Italy by the Iron Age certainly it had reached the Balkans too , and especially including the Western Balkans too since it is geographically closest.

[Alexa]

Bulgarian 7.12

This proves that Slavs were biologically present on Balkans in Iron Age and that Thracians are Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians.

It's unreasonable to expect that Thracian score Northern Italy

Here is my Punt. K10

# Population Percent
1 WHG 38.86
2 ENF 29.4
3 CHG 28.64
4 Amerindian 1.26
5 Sub-Saharan 1.2
6 E_Asian 0.48
7 Beringian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.67
2 Hungarian 6.38
3 Croatian 6.64
4 German_South 8.1
5 Irish 8.82

Being from Balkans, Having Bulgarian and Irish (Celtic, Illyrian, Thracian mix)


https://media1.tenor.com/images/d70967fa125924840a438e906dd48dab/tenor.gif

[Leto]

A joke. Those who take what is said in this movie seriously are ridiculous.
The N Word influence in Sicily is like 1-2% only, I believe.

[ProudBrit]

Pretty cool how North Italians are genetically the closest of modern populations to the old true Romans. As I had predicted years and years ago.

Now lets get some Patrician genomes if we can.

The italics were not "old" romans just remainings from Bronze Age Urnfield savages who lived in mud huts.Real romans plotted inbetween greek islanders(greek) and cypriots(anatolian greek), modern sicillians are closest to them
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/UrnfieldCulture.jpg

[Alexa]

I seriously doubt that Etruscan is related to Albanian, but yes more genetic work is needed and more samples are needed in order to definitively say exactly how all of the populations fit together back in those days...

https://thelosttruth.altervista.org/the-enigma-of-pelasgians-and-etruscans-albanians/


http://shrani.si/f/1Q/ku/4ImI8aI4/huehue.png



Etruscan has also been linked to Armenian which has also been linked to Albanian.




Though I agree to determine autosomal of different ancient populations and get a better picture we need way more samples, I'd like to see atleast 10 samples from Dardania for example.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/DardaniaMap.png












As for these Iron Age Romans, apparently they found over a 100 samples but I didn't bother to look through all of them and see what they are like.

[TheOldNorth]

https://thelosttruth.altervista.org/the-enigma-of-pelasgians-and-etruscans-albanians/


http://shrani.si/f/1Q/ku/4ImI8aI4/huehue.png



Etruscan has also been linked to Armenian which has also been linked to Albanian.




Though I agree to determine autosomal of different ancient populations and get a better picture we need way more samples, I'd like to see atleast 10 samples from Dardania for example.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/DardaniaMap.png












As for these Iron Age Romans, apparently they found over a 100 samples but I didn't bother to look through all of them and see what they are like.

the biggest problem with this theory is that Etruscan definitely isn't an indo-European language

[TheOldNorth]

The italics were not "old" romans just remainings from Bronze Age Urnfield savages who lived in mud huts.Real romans plotted inbetween greek islanders(greek) and cypriots(anatolian greek), modern sicillians are closest to them
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/UrnfieldCulture.jpg

what the f do you think 'real' romans were other then conquering bronze smithers from the north that spoke proto-italic? I assure you the Urnfield lived in at the very least wooden homes, and not as you say 'mud huts' and were well versed in the ability to smith bronze and copper

[Kenshiro]

Makes me wonder if the Illyrians come from the same ethnic stock as the italic peoples even if not the same linguistic stock

I genetically look like a strange mix between the two, I am from the north-east of Puglia which in theory is the area that has best preserved the Illyrian DNA and has also had several Latin colonies
I genetically look like a strange mix between the two, I am from the north-east of Puglia which in theory is the area that has best preserved the Illyrian DNA and has also had several Latin colonies, more than 30% of my DNA comes from Hungary of the Bronze Age, I also seem to be very modelable with steppe samples though