What do Palestinian Christians receiving on their DNA results?

[Serbat14]

What do Palestinian Christians receiving on their DNA results? I've heard they have a higher Levanite ancestry compared to the Muslim ones and they are significantly less Arab genetically than them, are there any Palestinian Christians here who did a DNA test, if so, would they willing to share the results here? I'm curious
Thanks.

[Serbat14]

Up

[فاروق]

Muslim Palestinians are ~50% native on average, however there are some Palestinian Muslims who are completely native and score results not much different than Christians, so it's more like a spectrum. Least indigenous people can be found in Gaza.

Palestinian and Samaritan reference in GedMatch both are somehow close to each other. Palestinian Muslims are most likely Samaritans who converted to Islam and received a lot of outsider input. However, Christian Palestinians' DNA is exactly the same thing as Samaritans so they're basically Christian Samaritans.

In the end of the day, all Palestinians are native to the region and their DNA results show that. They get close genetic distance to the Lebanese, Syrians and Jordanians. If you think they're not native (like most Israelis think: "They're just Arabs"); WTF you expect them to be close to? Swedes? Yeah, they're close to Levantines in general and they're Levantines.

Jews in general also show Levantine ancestry so I think both are indigenous to the land and are close to each other. All Jews get East Med component in their DNA most likely from their Levantine ancestry. I hope you guys will co-exist together, peace!

[samario]

Yeah, Christian Palestinians are mostly Levantine whereas Muslim Palestinians often show high levels of Arabian admixture. Original Jews are of Levantine ancestry, too.

From an ethnic standpoint, Palestinians with low levels of Arabian admixture and Jews are brothers, as well as Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese.

[Smeagol]

From an ethnic standpoint, Palestinians with low levels of Arabian admixture and Jews are brothers, as well as Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese.

Jews are fairly distant from all Levantine populations. They cluster with peripheral South Europeans.

[samario]

Jews are fairly distant from all Levantine populations. They cluster with peripheral South Europeans.

Jews with non-Canaanite admixture are a native Levantine population, though and they share a common heritage with other Levantines regardless of admixture with other groups.

Native Samaritans and Palestinians being their closest relatives.

[Smeagol]

Jews without admixture are a native Levantine population, though.

But Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews make up the vast majority of Jews in the world.

[samario]

But Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews make up the vast majority of Jews in the world.

There's still a shared bond between Jews and other Levantines, no? Jews are not 100% European. They don't cluster too far away from Samaritans, for instance.

On the same note... Some Levantines, noticeably Muslim ones, have mixed with Arabs. Although some do not show Arabian admixture at all.

[Smeagol]

There's still a shared bond between Jews and other Levantines, no? Jews are not 100% European. They don't cluster too far away from Samaritans, for instance.

I said peripheral European because like South Italians and Greek Islanders they have substantial Middle Eastern as well but can't be considered a Levantine population.

They aren't that close to Samaritans.
https://image.ibb.co/gKWmqf/EURO-PCA-v3.jpg

[samario]

How Levantine are Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews on average? How much do they score? Are they more European than Levantine or is it a balanced mix?

What percentage of Jews are/were from outside Europe?

[فاروق]

A Random Ashkenazi Jew GedMatch results:

Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.44
2 West_Med 17.24
3 North_Atlantic 14.26
4 West_Asian 11.07
5 Baltic 10.05
6 Red_Sea 5.98
7 South_Asian 2.06
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Siberian 0.71
10 Amerindian 0.33
11 Sub-Saharan 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi 2.86
2 East_Sicilian 7.83
3 Italian_Jewish 8.25
4 South_Italian 8.68
5 Sephardic_Jewish 8.7
6 Algerian_Jewish 8.79
7 Central_Greek 8.81
8 West_Sicilian 10.73
9 Tunisian_Jewish 11.05
10 Italian_Abruzzo 11.56
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.97
12 Greek_Thessaly 12.44
13 Cyprian 13.81
14 Tuscan 16.58
15 Lebanese_Muslim 16.85
16 Syrian 17.94
17 Samaritan 18.9
18 Lebanese_Druze 18.94
19 Palestinian 19.32
20 Jordanian 19.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.2% Ashkenazi + 9.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 2
2 92.8% Ashkenazi + 7.2% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.2
3 91.8% Ashkenazi + 8.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.25
4 93.1% Ashkenazi + 6.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.26
5 93.4% Ashkenazi + 6.6% Assyrian @ 2.33
6 92.4% Ashkenazi + 7.6% Samaritan @ 2.42
7 91.8% Ashkenazi + 8.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.44
8 94.7% Ashkenazi + 5.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.46
9 90.4% Ashkenazi + 9.6% Cyprian @ 2.48
10 93.3% Ashkenazi + 6.7% Palestinian @ 2.51
11 95.7% Ashkenazi + 4.3% Iranian @ 2.53
12 93.1% Ashkenazi + 6.9% Syrian @ 2.55
13 95.6% Ashkenazi + 4.4% Armenian @ 2.57
14 96% Ashkenazi + 4% Kurdish @ 2.58
15 96.3% Ashkenazi + 3.7% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.59
16 95.5% Ashkenazi + 4.5% Azeri @ 2.6
17 94.6% Ashkenazi + 5.4% Jordanian @ 2.63
18 95.3% Ashkenazi + 4.7% Turkish @ 2.68
19 97.1% Ashkenazi + 2.9% Saudi @ 2.69
20 97.3% Ashkenazi + 2.7% Turkmen @ 2.73

Random Palestinian Christian GedMatch results:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 45.7
2 West_Asian 17.35
3 West_Med 14.77
4 Red_Sea 12.84
5 Atlantic 4.95
6 Northeast_African 3.31
7 Eastern_Euro 1.02
8 Southeast_Asian 0.04
9 Oceanian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Samaritan 3.04
2 Lebanese_Christian 5.36
3 Palestinian 7.9
4 Cyprian 8.28
5 Lebanese_Muslim 8.97
6 Syrian 9.29
7 Lebanese_Druze 9.36
8 Jordanian 9.39
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.9
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.8
11 Kurdish_Jewish 12.82
12 Bedouin 13.68
13 Iranian_Jewish 14.09
14 Sephardic_Jewish 14.48
15 Algerian_Jewish 14.99
16 Italian_Jewish 15.61
17 Assyrian 16.05
18 Egyptian 17.69
19 South_Italian 19.69
20 Georgian_Jewish 19.74

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.6% Samaritan + 10.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.78
2 97.4% Samaritan + 2.6% Sardinian @ 2.8
3 93.6% Samaritan + 6.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.87
4 89.6% Samaritan + 10.4% Cyprian @ 2.9
5 98.5% Samaritan + 1.5% French_Basque @ 2.91
6 94.3% Samaritan + 5.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.91
7 97.4% Samaritan + 2.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.92
8 95.1% Samaritan + 4.9% Italian_Jewish @ 2.93
9 97.1% Samaritan + 2.9% Tunisian @ 2.94
10 97.5% Samaritan + 2.5% Moroccan @ 2.94
11 99.2% Samaritan + 0.8% Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator @ 2.94
12 98.3% Samaritan + 1.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.95
13 98.5% Samaritan + 1.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.96
14 98.5% Samaritan + 1.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.96
15 99.3% Samaritan + 0.7% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 2.96
16 97.2% Samaritan + 2.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.96
17 98.5% Samaritan + 1.5% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.97
18 97.8% Samaritan + 2.2% Algerian @ 2.97
19 99.3% Samaritan + 0.7% Hadza @ 2.97
20 99.2% Samaritan + 0.8% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 2.98


Notice how the results aren't much different from each other except that Ashkenazis have elevated European components. Ashkenazis still somehow are predominantly Levantine in DNA despite living in Europe for very long time

[Smeagol]

A Random Ashkenazi Jew GedMatch results:

Comparing two individual results isn't really relevant. Especially considering this Ashkenazi result is atypical, as most don't even get Palestinian in their top 20 matches on Gedmatch.


Notice how the results aren't much different from each other except that Ashkenazis have elevated European components.

…And that makes a very significant difference and is the reason why Ashkenazis cluster with Sicilians/Calabrians/Greek Islanders rather than Levantines.


Ashkenazis still somehow are predominantly Levantine in DNA despite living in Europe for very long time

No, they're approximately half Levantine and half North Italian.

[فاروق]

Comparing two individual results isn't really relevant. Especially considering this Ashkenazi result is atypical, as most don't even get Palestinian in their top 20 matches on Gedmatch.



…And that makes a very significant difference and is the reason why Ashkenazis cluster with Sicilians/Calabrians/Greek Islanders rather than Levantines.



No, they're approximately half Levantine and half North Italian.

The fact that the Ashkenazi person I showed gets very close genetic distance to the Ashkenazi reference means he is representative of the average Ashkenazi.

Please observe this:

1 East_Med 36.44
2 West_Med 17.24
3 North_Atlantic 14.26
4 West_Asian 11.07
5 Baltic 10.05
6 Red_Sea 5.98
7 South_Asian 2.06
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Siberian 0.71
10 Amerindian 0.33
11 Sub-Saharan 0.26


1 East_Med 45.7
2 West_Asian 17.35
3 West_Med 14.77
4 Red_Sea 12.84
5 Atlantic 4.95
6 Northeast_African 3.31
7 Eastern_Euro 1.02
8 Southeast_Asian 0.04
9 Oceanian 0.02


36.44 + 11.07 + 14.77 + 5.98 + 4.95 + 1.02 = 74.23% SAME COMPONENTS AS THE PALESTINIAN CHRISTIAN.

[فاروق]

Another comparison:

Ashkenazi Meerkat user from this forum I copied:

1 East_Med 36.44
2 West_Med 17.24
3 North_Atlantic 14.26
4 West_Asian 11.07
5 Baltic 10.05
6 Red_Sea 5.98
7 South_Asian 2.06
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Siberian 0.71
10 Amerindian 0.33
11 Sub-Saharan 0.26


Palestinian MaldenK user from this forum I copied:

1 East_Med 45.15
2 West_Asian 18.27
3 Red_Sea 14.56
4 West_Med 13.43
5 Northeast_African 4.11
6 North_Atlantic 3.09
7 South_Asian 1.39

36.44 + 11.07 + 13.43 + 3.09 + 5.98 + 1.39 = 71.4% SAME COMPONENTS.

[Pine]

Smeagol's selective PCA didn't convince them and now he's sweating. It's ok, you can still retire in Florida.

[Smeagol]

The fact that the Ashkenazi person I showed gets very close genetic distance to the Ashkenazi reference means he is representative of the average Ashkenazi.

There isn't a huge amount of variation but he's still clearly on the more Levantine spectrum as he gets Palestinians in his top 20 populations, which again, most Ashkenazi do not so it makes no sense when people try to make the two out as "brother populations. This Jew can also be modeled as 90% Ashkenazi and 10% Druze.


36.44 + 11.07 + 14.77 + 5.98 + 4.95 + 1.02 = 74.23% SAME COMPONENTS AS THE PALESTINIAN CHRISTIAN.

Now compare how similar they are to the populations they actually cluster with. :)

[Smeagol]

Smeagol's selective PCA didn't convince them and now he's sweating. It's ok, you can still retire in Florida.

Selective = Pine doesn't like the results.

[فاروق]

There isn't a huge amount of variation but he's still clearly on the more Levantine spectrum as he gets Palestinians in his top 20 populations, which again, most Ashkenazi do not so it makes no sense when people try to make the two out as "brother populations. This Jew can also be modeled as 90% Ashkenazi and 10% Druze.



Now compare how similar they are to the populations they actually cluster with. :)

I have a Lebanese relative who has a North Italian great grandmother. GedMatch clusters him with South Italians and Sephardic Jews for some reason, it just shows that South Europeans and Levantines aren't that much different from each other genetically. If a Lebanese person received a little bit of that north components he starts clustering with South Europeans and Sephardic Jews.

[Smeagol]

I have a Lebanese relative who has a North Italian great grandmother. GedMatch clusters him with South Italians and Sephardic Jews for some reason, it just shows that South Europeans and Levantines aren't that much different from each other genetically. If a Lebanese person received a little bit of that north components he starts clustering with South Europeans and Sephardic Jews.

Post the result?

Far South Italians and Jews are around equally distant from North Italians and Lebanese. Ashkenazi Jews are essentially half Levantine and half North Italian, or it might be half Levantine and like 40% Tuscan-like and 10% East European or whatever.

[samario]

As did ancient Philistines:

https://www.livescience.com/amp/65867-philistines-ancient-dna-europe.html

(also South Italian/Greek-like)

I mean, they are not worlds apart. Jews are Eastern Mediterranean themselves. Close to Greece, Southern Italy, Cyprus.

[Smeagol]

As did ancient Philistines:

https://www.livescience.com/amp/65867-philistines-ancient-dna-europe.html

(also South Italian/Greek-like)

That's because Philistines were Aegean migrants.

[فاروق]

Clustering doesn't matter. Components is what matters, really.

1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese cousin results:

EUROGENES K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.79
2 West_Asian 17.08
3 West_Med 15.52
4 Atlantic 13.79
5 North_Sea 6.73
6 Red_Sea 5.63
7 Baltic 3.97
8 Northeast_African 3.81
9 Eastern_Euro 1.92
10 South_Asian 1.55
11 Amerindian 0.88
12 Oceanian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 7.38
2 Ashkenazi 7.46
3 Greek 11.43
4 Cyprian 12.94
5 Tuscan 13.81
6 Lebanese_Muslim 15.06
7 Turkish 15.54
8 Syrian 16.03
9 Bulgarian 18.71
10 Jordanian 18.92
11 Samaritan 19.38
12 North_Italian 20.14
13 Assyrian 20.36
14 Palestinian 20.45
15 Lebanese_Christian 20.76
16 Romanian 20.83
17 Bedouin 21.78
18 Lebanese_Druze 21.9
19 Armenian 22.1
20 Kurdish 23.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.71
2 68.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 31.3% Southwest_French @ 3.96
3 68% Lebanese_Muslim + 32% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.98
4 66.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.05
5 57.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 42.4% North_Italian @ 4.09
6 65.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.12
7 52.4% Tuscan + 47.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.22
8 67.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 32.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.27
9 65.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.36
10 64.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.43
11 66.1% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.44
12 64.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.2% Portuguese @ 4.5
13 73.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 26.6% French_Basque @ 4.56
14 64.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.57
15 56.7% Assyrian + 43.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.59
16 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% Chechen @ 4.75
17 60.5% Tuscan + 39.5% Assyrian @ 4.94
18 85.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.1% Balkar @ 4.97
19 85.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.1% Lezgin @ 4.97
20 83.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 16.1% Kumyk @ 5


DODECAD K12B


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 30.65
2 Atlantic_Med 24.98
3 Southwest_Asian 13.1
4 North_European 12.62
5 Gedrosia 10.52
6 Northwest_African 3.65
7 East_African 2.4
8 South_Asian 0.73
9 Southeast_Asian 0.53
10 East_Asian 0.48
11 Sub_Saharan 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.67
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 9.27
3 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.56
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 10.68
5 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.89
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 11.82
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 12.54
8 Greek (Dodecad) 12.63
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.84
10 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.89
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.64
12 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.32
13 Cypriots (Behar) 19.87
14 Lebanese (Behar) 20.16
15 Turks (Behar) 21.18
16 N_Italian (Dodecad) 21.52
17 Syrians (Behar) 22.23
18 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 22.69
19 North_Italian (HGDP) 23.04
20 Jordanians (Behar) 23.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.7% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 47.3% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 3.51
2 52.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 47.5% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 3.59
3 51.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 48.3% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 3.63
4 51.6% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 48.4% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 3.64
5 55.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 44.3% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 3.71
6 52.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 47.5% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 3.77
7 63.8% Lebanese (Behar) + 36.2% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 3.88
8 87.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 12.8% Makrani (HGDP) @ 4.06
9 60.2% Lebanese (Behar) + 39.8% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 4.08
10 51.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 48.5% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 4.11
11 60.7% Lebanese (Behar) + 39.3% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 4.12
12 88.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.3% Brahui (HGDP) @ 4.16
13 87.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 12.2% Balochi (HGDP) @ 4.16
14 51.7% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 48.3% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 4.17
15 57.8% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 42.2% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) @ 4.19
16 55.9% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 44.1% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 4.19
17 54.6% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 45.4% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) @ 4.2
18 51.7% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 48.3% Canarias (1000Genomes) @ 4.24
19 55.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 44.3% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 4.28
20 63.4% Lebanese (Behar) + 36.6% Spaniards (Behar) @ 4.29

[Pine]

Selective = Pine doesn't like the results.

Mein Mischling,

Almost all PCAs show Ashkenazim being closer to Levantines than that one. I've seen it before. And if that Ashkenazi is atypical, then what am I?

[فاروق]

Mein Mischling,

Almost all PCAs show Ashkenazim being closer to Levantines than that one. I've seen it before. And if that Ashkenazi is atypical, then what am I?

Can you post your Eurogenes please? I'm pretty sure you're going to get high amount of East Med as most Ashkenazis get?

[Smeagol]

Mein Mischling,

Almost all PCAs show Ashkenazim being closer to Levantines than that one. I've seen it before. And if that Ashkenazi is atypical, then what am I?

Well it's a Eurogenes chart isn't it? If you don't like it, then the other PCA's still prove my point in that they cluster primarily with far south Italians and Greek Islanders.

https://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png

And yeah, you are atypical with your very low Baltic score.

[Pine]

Well it's a Eurogenes chart isn't it? If you don't like it, then the other PCA's still prove my point.

https://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png

And yeah, you are atypical with your very low Baltic score.

This one doesn't help you. Plotting at and beyond the very edge of south Europeans after having absorbed north euro admixture implies a shit load of Levantine.

[Smeagol]

This one doesn't help you. Plotting at and beyond the very edge of south Europeans after having absorbed north euro admixture implies a shit load of Levantine.

The North European is probably mostly indirect from a Roman source along with minor East European. They have barely more of it than the people they cluster with. Like it or not, they're more similar to Italians than Palestinians.

[Smeagol]

Clustering doesn't matter. Components is what matters, really

Well where a group clusters is determined by their components and Jewish components are more similar to South Italians than to Palestinian Christians.

[فاروق]

Well where a group clusters is determined by their components and Jewish components are more similar to South Italians than to Palestinian Christians.

You haven't commented on my cousin's results. So being 1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese Christian makes a person Sephardic Jew?

[Smeagol]

You haven't commented on my cousin's results. So being 1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese Christian makes a person Sephardic Jew?

No, it just makes him biologically similar to one. In general Ashkenazi are modeled more like 1/2 North Italian and 1/2 Lebanese, give or take a little, though.

[فاروق]

Sorry but you are not going to change my mind really. I saw a Jew girl in New York and thought she was Lebanese at first sight. They definitely have Levantine ancestry and in GedMatch it shows as ~70%

[Pine]

The North European is probably mostly indirect from a Roman source along with minor East European. They have barely more of it than the people they cluster with. Like it or not, they're more similar to Italians than Palestinians.

The clustering argument is silly and won't convince your ideological ilk either. Plenty of half whites cluster with Europeans on such plots. As for the north European being overwhelmingly Italian, that's not supported by anything.

[Smeagol]

Sorry but you are not going to change my mind really. I saw a Jew girl in New York and thought she was Lebanese at first sight. They definitely have Levantine ancestry and in GedMatch it shows as ~70%

You seem to be focusing too much on individuals. Kirk Douglas is also a Jew and he looks North European, but it doesn't mean they look like that as a whole. Having spent a good amount of time in New York and known many Jews, I can tell you that look-wise they can fit much better among Italian-Americans than among a Levantine crowd.

They do have Levantine ancestry but gedmatch is not showing that it's 70%. By that logic, again, they could be said to be of mostly Italian ancestry. Here, let's compare the Jew and Palestinian with a Sicilian gedmatch result:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?251725-2-GEDMatch-results-from-Cerda-Palermo-province-Sicily

East Med:
Sicilian: 33.08%
Ashkenazi: 36.44%
Palestinian: 45.15%

West Med:
Palestinian: 13.43%
Ashkenazi: 17.24%
Sicilian: 21.07%

North Atlantic:
Palestinian: 3.09%
Ashkenazi: 14.26%
Sicilian: 16.06%

West Asian
Ashkenazi:11.07%
Sicilian: 12.15%
Palestinian: 18.27%

Baltic:
Palestinian: 0%
Sicilian: 6.89%
Ashkenazi: 10.05%

Red Sea:
Ashkenazi: 5.98%
Sicilian: 7.46%
Palestinian: 14.56%

South Asian:
Sicilian: 0%
Palestinian: 1.39%
Ashkenazi: 2.06%

East Asian:
Palestinian:0%
Sicilian: 0%
Ashkenazi: 1.59%

Now, what percentage of components does the Jew share with the Sicilian as opposed to the Palestinian?

[Smeagol]

The clustering argument is silly and won't convince your ideological ilk either. Plenty of half whites cluster with Europeans on such plots. As for the north European being overwhelmingly Italian, that's not supported by anything.

It's not, as you cluster with people you have similar genetic components to. Sure, a half European, half Middle Eastern person will cluster in Europe but a half East Asian or SSA never will.

It's supported by history as Jews mixed very rarely after the Roman Empire.

[فاروق]

You seem to be focusing too much on individuals. Kirk Douglas is also a Jew and he looks North European, but it doesn't mean they look like that as a whole. Having spent a good amount of time in New York and known many Jews, I can tell you that look-wise they can fit much better among Italian-Americans than among a Levantine crowd.

They do have Levantine ancestry but gedmatch is not showing that it's 70%. By that logic, again, they could be said to be of mostly Italian ancestry. Here, let's compare the Jew and Palestinian with a Sicilian gedmatch result:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?251725-2-GEDMatch-results-from-Cerda-Palermo-province-Sicily

East Med:
Sicilian: 33.08%
Ashkenazi: 36.44%
Palestinian: 45.15%

West Med:
Palestinian: 13.43%
Ashkenazi: 17.24%
Sicilian: 21.07%

North Atlantic:
Palestinian: 3.09%
Ashkenazi: 14.26%
Sicilian: 16.06%

West Asian
Ashkenazi:11.07%
Sicilian: 12.15%
Palestinian: 18.27%

Baltic:
Palestinian: 0%
Sicilian: 6.89%
Ashkenazi: 10.05%

Red Sea:
Ashkenazi: 5.98%
Sicilian: 7.46%
Palestinian: 14.56%

South Asian:
Sicilian: 0%
Palestinian: 1.39%
Ashkenazi: 2.06%

East Asian:
Palestinian:0%
Sicilian: 0%
Ashkenazi: 1.59%

Now, what percentage of components does the Jew share with the Sicilian as opposed to the Palestinian?

The Jewish northern admixture is not coming from Italians. It's rather coming from North West Europeans and you can see clearly that Ashkenazis have higher East Med which means their ancestors are most likely Samaritans

[Serbat14]

Yeah, Christian Palestinians are mostly Levantine whereas Muslim Palestinians often show high levels of Arabian admixture. Original Jews are of Levantine ancestry, too.

From an ethnic standpoint, Palestinians with low levels of Arabian admixture and Jews are brothers, as well as Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese.

That's pretty much a prove that the vast majority of Palestinian Muslims are not indigenous to the Levant, I've seen some Muslims who took DNA test and they got only aabout 30%-45% Levanite with large amounts of Arabian, Egyptian and Mesopotamian admixture. Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews have usually more Levanite ancestry, what makes them more indigenous to Israel.

[Smeagol]

The Jewish northern admixture is not coming from Italians. It's rather coming from North West Europeans and you can see clearly that Ashkenazis have higher East Med which means their ancestors are most likely Samaritans

It doesn't actually really matter where it comes from, but it's much more likely to come from Italians as the only significant pre-modern mixing between Jews and Gentiles was during the Roman Empire. The slightly higher Baltic that Jews have than Sicilians does indicate very minor East European admixture though.

Ashkenazi East Med percentage is closer to Sicilian than Palestinian, and no, Jews are not descended from Samaritans, but rather they're partially descended from Hebrews who were presumably closely related to Samaritans and Levantine Christians.

Now you didn't answer, what percentage of components does the Jew share with the Sicilian as opposed to the Palestinian?

[فاروق]

It doesn't actually really matter where it comes from, but it's much more likely to come from Italians as the only significant pre-modern mixing between Jews and Gentiles was during the Roman Empire. The slightly higher Baltic that Jews have than Sicilians does indicate very minor East European admixture though.

Ashkenazi East Med percentage is closer to Sicilian than Palestinian, and no, Jews are not descended from Samaritans, but rather they're partially descended from Hebrews who were presumably closely related to Samaritans and Levantine Christians.

Now you didn't answer, what percentage of components does the Jew share with the Sicilian as opposed to the Palestinian?

Don't Sicilians themselves have Levantine ancestry as well? Yes, Jews are more similar to South Italians however there isn't really much difference. As I said all these three populations are very close to each other. My cousin's case proves this. The Sicilian admixture is similar to Jews because Sicilians themselves have Levantine ancestry from the Phoenicians.

[فاروق]

Can you compare the components of an English and a Sicilian and see who would a Sicilian be closer to: Lebanese or English?

[Smeagol]

Can you compare the components of an English and a Sicilian and see who would a Sicilian be closer to: Lebanese or English?

Doing a quick search, I couldn't find an English gedmatch result, but the Sicilian would definitely be closer to the Lebanese.

[فاروق]

Doing a quick search, I couldn't find an English gedmatch result, but the Sicilian would definitely be closer to the Lebanese.

It just shows that Sicilians themselves aren't completely European but rather very similar to Jews' case. They have Levantine ancestry with European so comparing them with Jews isn't really a good comparison. Sicilians don't represent the average European.

[Smeagol]

It just shows that Sicilians themselves aren't completely European but rather very similar to Jews' case. They have Levantine ancestry with European so comparing them with Jews isn't really a good comparison. Sicilians don't represent the average European.

Yes, but my point was that Sicilians/South Italians and Greek Islanders are actually the people closest to Jews, not that Jews are fully European.

[Hashoeva]

Jews are in the end a religious group of people and not a race or something. Thats how they have been considered through out the history. They are made up of different races and peoples. Most ashkenazi Jews look European and not levantine at all.

[Hashoeva]

That's pretty much a prove that the vast majority of Palestinian Muslims are not indigenous to the Levant, I've seen some Muslims who took DNA test and they got only aabout 30%-45% Levanite with large amounts of Arabian, Egyptian and Mesopotamian admixture. Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews have usually more Levanite ancestry, what makes them more indigenous to Israel.
lol another troll here.

[ModernMaskil]

Jews are in the end a religious group of people and not a race or something. Thats how they have been considered through out the history. They are made up of different races and peoples. Most ashkenazi Jews look European and not levantine at all.

lol, a troll who called out a non troll for trolling

[Longbowman]

But Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews make up the vast majority of Jews in the world.

not in israel

[samario]

It's settled then. Jews are Levantine.

Samaritans look like this, they are one of Israelites' closest descendants.

https://i.postimg.cc/nz8ghrvc/1024px-Flickr-Government-Press-Office-GPO-Samaritans-prayi.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/1XsdDdCk/Samaritans-marking-Passover-on-Mount-Gerizim-West-Bank-200604.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/85h3JGHd/Sofi-Tzadka.jpg

[Smeagol]

not in israel

But in the majority of the world when people refer to Jews they're talking about European Jews.

[Smeagol]

It's settled then. Jews are Levantine.

Again, how? Unless you consider South Italians and Greeks Levantine as well. The reality is that they're about as Levantine as Barack Obama is European.

[Leto]

Again, how? Unless you consider South Italians and Greeks Levantine as well. The reality is that they're about as Levantine as Barack Obama is European.
I think you can't be considered both Levantine and European/white. Sure a few Levantines look European but pretty much everyone agrees they are as a group not European by any definition. Is Syria a white country? No. Is Lebanon a white country? No. So you are either white (= European) or Levantine.

[Smeagol]

I think you can't be considered both Levantine and European/white. Sure a few Levantines look European but pretty much everyone agrees they are as a group not European by any definition. Is Syria a white country? No. Is Lebanon a white country? No. So you are either white (= European) or Levantine.

Jews (as well as South Italians/Greek Islanders) are in between Europeans and Levantines genetically. I don't think anyone was discussing whether Syria or Lebanon were white countries or whatever.

[Token]

Jews (as well as South Italians/Greek Islanders) are in between Europeans and Levantines genetically. I don't think anyone was discussing whether Syria or Lebanon were white countries or whatever.

Are Mycenaeans and Classical Greeks European-Levantine hybrids too, since they plot with Greek Islanders and South Italians? They were the ones who invented the concept of Europe.

[Leto]

Jews (as well as South Italians/Greek Islanders) are in between Europeans and Levantines genetically. I don't think anyone was discussing whether Syria or Lebanon were white countries or whatever.
Well, they seem to be unsure as to whether they are Levantine or white. I don't want to continue this discussion because I don't want be attacked for the "wrong" opinion.

[Smeagol]

Are Mycenaeans and Classical Greeks European-Levantine hybrids too, since they plot with Greek Islanders and South Italians? They were the ones who invented the concept of Europe.

Genetically, yes. Europe was essentially just a geographic concept in Herodotus's day anyway. The Classical Greeks felt no kinship with Northern Europeans for example.

[Token]

Genetically, yes. Europe was essentially just a geographic concept in Herodotus's day anyway. The Classical Greeks felt no kinship with Northern Europeans for example.

What is a genetic European anyway? A North Italian is as distant from a Dutch as from a South Italian. They are just part of a natural European cline.
The West Asian-like admixture in Greece predates Indo-European migrations into Europe.

[Smeagol]

What is a genetic European anyway? A North Italian is as distant from a Dutch as from a South Italian. They are just part of a natural European cline.
The West Asian-like admixture in Greece predates Indo-European migrations into Europe.

That's true, but they're still closer to Levantines than to most other Europeans.

[Adamastor]

It's not, as you cluster with people you have similar genetic components to. Sure, a half European, half Middle Eastern person will cluster in Europe but a half East Asian or SSA never will.

It's supported by history as Jews mixed very rarely after the Roman Empire.

A half-Amerindian half SSA would cluster in Europe in these charts. It's irrelevant.

[Smeagol]

A half-Amerindian half SSA would cluster in Europe in these charts. It's irrelevant.

I don't think so? Can you post an example?

Even if it were true, The most similar populations to Jews are still the peripheral South European groups I mentioned. This seems to bother a lot of people. Not least among them, Jews themselves.

[Adamastor]

I don't think so? Can you post an example?

Even if it were true, The most similar populations to Jews are still the peripheral South European groups I mentioned. This seems to bother a lot of people. Not least among them, Jews themselves.

I don't have any example of Amerindian + SSA here right now, but you can see where an hypothetical mix between them would cluster in Eurogenes K15, probably in the middle of Europe. Being more specific, Yoruban + Amerindian would cluster in Europe.

Jews are similar to Sicilians and Calabrians by accident, not because they share the same ancestry. I cluster with the Swiss French in some calculators, it doesn't mean I'm Swiss or have similar ancestry.

[Smeagol]

Jews are similar to Sicilians and Calabrians by accident, not because they share the same ancestry. I cluster with the Swiss French in some calculators, it doesn't mean I'm Swiss or have similar ancestry.

I'm not saying they're literally Sicilian or something, but they do have similar amounts of European and Levantine ancestry. Modern Ashkenazi Jews simply can't be considered genetically native to Palestine.

[Samnium]

A half-Amerindian half SSA would cluster in Europe in these charts. It's irrelevant.

Not in 3d PCA though.

[Samnium]

I don't have any example of Amerindian + SSA here right now, but you can see where an hypothetical mix between them would cluster in Eurogenes K15, probably in the middle of Europe. Being more specific, Yoruban + Amerindian would cluster in Europe.

Jews are similar to Sicilians and Calabrians by accident, not because they share the same ancestry. I cluster with the Swiss French in some calculators, it doesn't mean I'm Swiss or have similar ancestry.

Do you have your gedmatch ? I would be interested since I've a little bit of Swiss French ancestry.

[Adamastor]

I'm not saying they're literally Sicilian or something, but they do have similar amounts of European and Levantine ancestry. Modern Ashkenazi Jews simply can't be considered genetically native to Palestine.

Yeah, I agree that they aren't full blown Middle Easterners.

[Samnium]

Yeah, I agree that they aren't full blown Middle Easterners.

Some italic woman mated Levant mens in a bottle-neck event and created Western Jews.

[PaleoEuropean]

Some italic woman mated Levant mens in a bottle-neck event and created Western Jews.

Well Ashkenazi's, the Sephardi share some Italian both male and female lines but most came over during the Arab conquest/rule of Iberia.

[Hashoeva]

Some italic woman mated Levant mens in a bottle-neck event and created Western Jews.
That is nonsense since Western Jews have very different mixed paternal haplogroups.

[Leto]

Some italic woman mated Levant mens in a bottle-neck event and created Western Jews.
Ivanka Trump style :cool:

[Samnium]

Well Ashkenazi's, the Sephardi share some Italian both male and female lines but most came over during the Arab conquest/rule of Iberia.

Yes I have to say for Ashkenazim, but also for other jewish groups like Italian jewish or others.

Most of Sephardim euro ancestry is from Iberia I would guess though I'm not sure.

[Longbowman]

Jews are to the southern levant as mestizos are to mexico.

[Yorgo]

No difference from other Levantine Christians.

[Leto]

Jews are to the southern levant as mestizos are to mexico.
What are your parents' percentages of the following components on MDLP K23b:
- European HG
- Early Euro Farmer
- Near Eastern
- North African

Of course if you are still on GEDmatch or have the results at hand. I'm just curious.

[FinalFlash]

I don't think so? Can you post an example?

Even if it were true, The most similar populations to Jews are still the peripheral South European groups I mentioned. This seems to bother a lot of people. Not least among them, Jews themselves.

It's because they know deep down that they've transformed into something different from their paternal ancestors of 2000 years ago so they feel the need to emphasize their Levantine ancestry while usually understating their obvious, and more noticeable(phenotype-wise) European ancestry.

[Longbowman]

What are your parents' percentages of the following components on MDLP K23b:
- European HG
- Early Euro Farmer
- Near Eastern
- North African

Of course if you are still on GEDmatch or have the results at hand. I'm just curious.



-
Euro HG
EEF
Near East
North African


Me
13.09
20.75
13.63
7.63


Mum
9.62
24.83
14.10
6.37


Dad
14.52
20.40
11.49
6.31



The remainder is mostly Caucasian.

[Leto]

-
Euro HG
EEF
Near East
North African


Me
13.09
20.75
13.63
7.63


Mum
9.62
24.83
14.10
6.37


Dad
14.52
20.40
11.49
6.31



The remainder is mostly Caucasian.
Thank you. The Canaanite samples range from 23 to 27% Near Eastern. Zero EHG but the EEF is present in a double-digit amount.

[Yorgo]

Muslim Palestinians are ~50% native on average, however there are some Palestinian Muslims who are completely native and score results not much different than Christians, so it's more like a spectrum. Least indigenous people can be found in Gaza.

Palestinian and Samaritan reference in GedMatch both are somehow close to each other. Palestinian Muslims are most likely Samaritans who converted to Islam and received a lot of outsider input. However, Christian Palestinians' DNA is exactly the same thing as Samaritans so they're basically Christian Samaritans.

In the end of the day, all Palestinians are native to the region and their DNA results show that. They get close genetic distance to the Lebanese, Syrians and Jordanians. If you think they're not native (like most Israelis think: "They're just Arabs"); WTF you expect them to be close to? Swedes? Yeah, they're close to Levantines in general and they're Levantines.

Jews in general also show Levantine ancestry so I think both are indigenous to the land and are close to each other. All Jews get East Med component in their DNA most likely from their Levantine ancestry. I hope you guys will co-exist together, peace!


First of all, nationalities are a very recent invention. Until the early 20th century all Christians called themselves Syrians (which was synonymous for Christian) and Muslims called themselves Arabs. A Christian from Damascus didn't consider himself any different from a Christian from Bethlehem.

The Holy Land is holy for Christians for a reason and throughout history it received Christians from all over the middle east.
The Christians of Haifa came mostly from Lebanon. The Christians of Jerusalem came from as far as Egypt and Armenia. Same for the Christians of Nazareth.

As Christians we don't marry our cousins and siblings like Muslims, that's why we would often travel to distant towns to find our partners. All Middle eastern Christians mingled and all have blood from the first Christians.

[فاروق]

First of all, nationalities are a very recent invention. Until the early 20th century all Christians called themselves Syrians (which was synonymous for Christian) and Muslims called themselves Arabs. A Christian from Damascus didn't consider himself any different from a Christian from Bethlehem.

The Holy Land is holy for Christians for a reason and throughout history it received Christians from all over the middle east.
The Christians of Haifa came mostly from Lebanon. The Christians of Jerusalem came from as far as Egypt and Armenia. Same for the Christians of Nazareth.

As Christians we don't marry our cousins and siblings like Muslims, that's why we would often travel to distant towns to find our partners. All Middle eastern Christians mingled and all have blood from the first Christians.

Sorry but I disagree. It shows in their GedMatch results that they are just the same thing as Samaritans. Christians from Levant all score different results from each other means they're just native to their region.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?272806-2-new-Palestinian-Christian-GEDMatch-results

[فاروق]

LOL @ The argument that Ashkenazis are half North Italian half Levantine. Please stop. My cousin is 1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese and clusters with Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.

Are Ashkenazis closer to Sicilians, Greek Islanders than Levantines? YES

Are Ashkenazis closer to Europeans or Levantines? LEVANTINES, their results are predominantly Levantine still 70%~.

[Pine]

Well, they seem to be unsure as to whether they are Levantine or white. I don't want to continue this discussion because I don't want be attacked for the "wrong" opinion.

I've explained this to you before: Jews don't have a mental white vs Levantine dichotomy.

[Pine]

It's because they know deep down that they've transformed into something different from their paternal ancestors of 2000 years ago so they feel the need to emphasize their Levantine ancestry while usually understating their obvious, and more noticeable(phenotype-wise) European ancestry.

You really like this topic, to the point where you claim that you think Ashkenazi gedmatch results are fabricated. No Jew cares about this. I've joked before that my ancestors would've probably stoned me if they saw me. Almost all Jews think they look European.

[Pine]

Not in 3d PCA though.

Higher dimensional PCAs would also broaden the distance between Jews and Sicilians.

[Samnium]

LOL @ The argument that Ashkenazis are half North Italian half Levantine. Please stop. My cousin is 1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese and clusters with Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.

Are Ashkenazis closer to Sicilians, Greek Islanders than Levantines? YES

Are Ashkenazis closer to Europeans or Levantines? LEVANTINES, their results are predominantly Levantine still 70%~.

Ashkenazim cluster is quite diverse but yes is generally more southern than Sicilians and the other most southern shifted S.Italians, though it exist people that are Cyprian genetically in S.Italy.


Higher dimensional PCAs would also broaden the distance between Jews and Sicilians.

Maybe, I think the proximity of Jews and S.Italians is often over-stated. Those who cluster with Jews in S.Italy are a minority and can be considered as outliers.

So overall of course they are close but not as much as thought. At the same time there is a fair number of Italians that have some jewish ancestry that they ignore and Jews have been around in S.Italy (but not only Italy generally) since 2000 years. Think that Catanzaro in S.Italy had a jewish community since the first century of our era. Dozens of crypto-jewish communities or villages with some jewish people can be found throughout S.Italy.

[Pine]

I don't think so? Can you post an example?

Even if it were true, The most similar populations to Jews are still the peripheral South European groups I mentioned. This seems to bother a lot of people. Not least among them, Jews themselves.

What are you - the mischling of lies and truth? No one minds that Ashkenazim plot near Sicilians. They take issue when you misinterpret it.

[FinalFlash]

You really like this topic, to the point where you claim that you think Ashkenazi gedmatch results are fabricated. No Jew cares about this. I've joked before that my ancestors would've probably stoned me if they saw me. Almost all Jews think they look European.

Jews are a fascinating ethno-religious group and are always one of the hottest topics in anthrofora. Just outta curiosity, how would you classify yourself phenotype-wise?

[Pine]

Can you post your Eurogenes please? I'm pretty sure you're going to get high amount of East Med as most Ashkenazis get?

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.68
2 West_Med 19.02
3 North_Atlantic 14.95
4 West_Asian 14.45
5 Red_Sea 6.14
6 Baltic 4.98
7 East_Asian 2.39
8 Sub-Saharan 1.16
9 Oceanian 0.97
10 Northeast_African 0.18
11 Amerindian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 5.02
2 Italian_Jewish 5.59
3 South_Italian 5.84
4 Ashkenazi 6.49
5 Algerian_Jewish 6.63
6 East_Sicilian 7.18
7 Central_Greek 8.32
8 Tunisian_Jewish 8.48
9 Libyan_Jewish 9.8
10 West_Sicilian 9.84
11 Italian_Abruzzo 10.46
12 Cyprian 11.23
13 Greek_Thessaly 14.58
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.6
15 Syrian 16.02
16 Tuscan 16.57
17 Samaritan 17.4
18 Lebanese_Druze 17.79
19 Lebanese_Christian 18.29
20 Palestinian 18.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.9% West_Sicilian + 35.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.53
2 88.7% Italian_Jewish + 11.3% Chechen @ 2.82
3 86.8% Italian_Jewish + 13.2% Kumyk @ 2.85
4 88.9% Italian_Jewish + 11.1% Lezgin @ 2.85
5 89.2% Italian_Jewish + 10.8% Tabassaran @ 2.91
6 88.3% Italian_Jewish + 11.7% Kabardin @ 2.93
7 88.2% Italian_Jewish + 11.8% Balkar @ 2.97
8 65.8% West_Sicilian + 34.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.98
9 88.9% Italian_Jewish + 11.1% North_Ossetian @ 2.99
10 88.4% Italian_Jewish + 11.6% Adygei @ 3.03
11 89% Italian_Jewish + 11% Ossetian @ 3.18
12 88.5% Italian_Jewish + 11.5% Nogay @ 3.31
13 52.6% Tuscan + 47.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.38
14 78.7% South_Italian + 21.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.42
15 56% Lebanese_Christian + 44% North_Italian @ 3.42
16 64.7% Lebanese_Christian + 35.3% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.44
17 80.6% Italian_Jewish + 19.4% Turkish @ 3.45
18 51.9% Tuscan + 48.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.51
19 87.6% Italian_Jewish + 12.4% Turkmen @ 3.52
20 67.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 32.2% Central_Greek @ 3.52

Smeagol missed the point: if that guy was atypical, then there is no room for me to even be Ashkenazi.

I'm the Sicilian who swam out too far (numbers are my chromosomes):

https://i.imgur.com/yXmTeRM.png

[Cumansky]

Jews are a fascinating ethno-religious group and are always one of the hottest topics in anthrofora. Just outta curiosity, how would you classify yourself phenotype-wise?

Dinaric

[Pine]

Jews are a fascinating ethno-religious group and are always one of the hottest topics in anthrofora. Just outta curiosity, how would you classify yourself phenotype-wise?

Most-handsomeoid. I don't buy into the phenotype pseudo-science. Those who have seen me, have said Faelid, but it makes no sense. Irl, most people think I'm a generic white dude. Sometimes, French tourists go up to me and speak French. Have gotten Italian a lot too. I've been mistaken for every ethnicity imaginable. From what I see in the mirror, south French makes most sense.

[فاروق]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.68
2 West_Med 19.02
3 North_Atlantic 14.95
4 West_Asian 14.45
5 Red_Sea 6.14
6 Baltic 4.98
7 East_Asian 2.39
8 Sub-Saharan 1.16
9 Oceanian 0.97
10 Northeast_African 0.18
11 Amerindian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 5.02
2 Italian_Jewish 5.59
3 South_Italian 5.84
4 Ashkenazi 6.49
5 Algerian_Jewish 6.63
6 East_Sicilian 7.18
7 Central_Greek 8.32
8 Tunisian_Jewish 8.48
9 Libyan_Jewish 9.8
10 West_Sicilian 9.84
11 Italian_Abruzzo 10.46
12 Cyprian 11.23
13 Greek_Thessaly 14.58
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.6
15 Syrian 16.02
16 Tuscan 16.57
17 Samaritan 17.4
18 Lebanese_Druze 17.79
19 Lebanese_Christian 18.29
20 Palestinian 18.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.9% West_Sicilian + 35.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.53
2 88.7% Italian_Jewish + 11.3% Chechen @ 2.82
3 86.8% Italian_Jewish + 13.2% Kumyk @ 2.85
4 88.9% Italian_Jewish + 11.1% Lezgin @ 2.85
5 89.2% Italian_Jewish + 10.8% Tabassaran @ 2.91
6 88.3% Italian_Jewish + 11.7% Kabardin @ 2.93
7 88.2% Italian_Jewish + 11.8% Balkar @ 2.97
8 65.8% West_Sicilian + 34.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.98
9 88.9% Italian_Jewish + 11.1% North_Ossetian @ 2.99
10 88.4% Italian_Jewish + 11.6% Adygei @ 3.03
11 89% Italian_Jewish + 11% Ossetian @ 3.18
12 88.5% Italian_Jewish + 11.5% Nogay @ 3.31
13 52.6% Tuscan + 47.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.38
14 78.7% South_Italian + 21.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.42
15 56% Lebanese_Christian + 44% North_Italian @ 3.42
16 64.7% Lebanese_Christian + 35.3% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.44
17 80.6% Italian_Jewish + 19.4% Turkish @ 3.45
18 51.9% Tuscan + 48.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.51
19 87.6% Italian_Jewish + 12.4% Turkmen @ 3.52
20 67.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 32.2% Central_Greek @ 3.52

Smeagol missed the point: if that guy was atypical, then there is no room for me to even be Ashkenazi.

I'm the Sicilian who swam out too far (numbers are my chromosomes):

https://i.imgur.com/yXmTeRM.png

You are even more East Med than my cousin who is 1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese. It would be sad to see you anywhere outside the Levant.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.79
2 West_Asian 17.08
3 West_Med 15.52
4 Atlantic 13.79
5 North_Sea 6.73
6 Red_Sea 5.63
7 Baltic 3.97
8 Northeast_African 3.81
9 Eastern_Euro 1.92
10 South_Asian 1.55
11 Amerindian 0.88
12 Oceanian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 7.38
2 Ashkenazi 7.46
3 Greek 11.43
4 Cyprian 12.94
5 Tuscan 13.81
6 Lebanese_Muslim 15.06
7 Turkish 15.54
8 Syrian 16.03
9 Bulgarian 18.71
10 Jordanian 18.92
11 Samaritan 19.38
12 North_Italian 20.14
13 Assyrian 20.36
14 Palestinian 20.45
15 Lebanese_Christian 20.76
16 Romanian 20.83
17 Bedouin 21.78
18 Lebanese_Druze 21.9
19 Armenian 22.1
20 Kurdish 23.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.71
2 68.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 31.3% Southwest_French @ 3.96
3 68% Lebanese_Muslim + 32% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.98
4 66.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.05
5 57.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 42.4% North_Italian @ 4.09
6 65.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.12
7 52.4% Tuscan + 47.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.22
8 67.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 32.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.27
9 65.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.36
10 64.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.43
11 66.1% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.44
12 64.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.2% Portuguese @ 4.5
13 73.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 26.6% French_Basque @ 4.56
14 64.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.57
15 56.7% Assyrian + 43.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.59
16 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% Chechen @ 4.75
17 60.5% Tuscan + 39.5% Assyrian @ 4.94
18 85.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.1% Balkar @ 4.97
19 85.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.1% Lezgin @ 4.97
20 83.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 16.1% Kumyk @ 5

[Pine]

You are even more East Med than my cousin who is 1/4 North Italian 3/4 Lebanese. It would be sad to see you anywhere outside the Levant.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.79
2 West_Asian 17.08
3 West_Med 15.52
4 Atlantic 13.79
5 North_Sea 6.73
6 Red_Sea 5.63
7 Baltic 3.97
8 Northeast_African 3.81
9 Eastern_Euro 1.92
10 South_Asian 1.55
11 Amerindian 0.88
12 Oceanian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 7.38
2 Ashkenazi 7.46
3 Greek 11.43
4 Cyprian 12.94
5 Tuscan 13.81
6 Lebanese_Muslim 15.06
7 Turkish 15.54
8 Syrian 16.03
9 Bulgarian 18.71
10 Jordanian 18.92
11 Samaritan 19.38
12 North_Italian 20.14
13 Assyrian 20.36
14 Palestinian 20.45
15 Lebanese_Christian 20.76
16 Romanian 20.83
17 Bedouin 21.78
18 Lebanese_Druze 21.9
19 Armenian 22.1
20 Kurdish 23.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.71
2 68.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 31.3% Southwest_French @ 3.96
3 68% Lebanese_Muslim + 32% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.98
4 66.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.05
5 57.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 42.4% North_Italian @ 4.09
6 65.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.12
7 52.4% Tuscan + 47.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.22
8 67.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 32.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.27
9 65.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.36
10 64.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.43
11 66.1% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.44
12 64.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.2% Portuguese @ 4.5
13 73.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 26.6% French_Basque @ 4.56
14 64.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 35.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.57
15 56.7% Assyrian + 43.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.59
16 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% Chechen @ 4.75
17 60.5% Tuscan + 39.5% Assyrian @ 4.94
18 85.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.1% Balkar @ 4.97
19 85.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.1% Lezgin @ 4.97
20 83.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 16.1% Kumyk @ 5


My East Med isn't particularly high. My West Asian is for an Ashkenazi, while the other "nothern" numbers are low, making me cluster with other Jews and Cypriots.

[فاروق]

Most-handsomeoid. I don't buy into the phenotype pseudo-science. Those who have seen me, have said Faelid, but it makes no sense. Irl, most people think I'm a generic white dude. Sometimes, French tourists go up to me and speak French. Have gotten Italian a lot too. I've been mistaken for every ethnicity imaginable. From what I see in the mirror, south French makes most sense.

Can you post Eurogenes K15? Just for comparison.

[Pine]

Can you post Eurogenes K15? Just for comparison.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29
2 West_Asian 16.01
3 West_Med 15.17
4 Atlantic 12.47
5 Red_Sea 8.39
6 North_Sea 8.16
7 Eastern_Euro 3.26
8 Baltic 2.75
9 Southeast_Asian 2.22
10 Northeast_African 0.99
11 Oceanian 0.88
12 Sub-Saharan 0.7

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 5.59
2 Ashkenazi 6
3 South_Italian 6.15
4 Sephardic_Jewish 6.34
5 Central_Greek 6.38
6 Italian_Jewish 6.51
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.73
8 Algerian_Jewish 8.49
9 West_Sicilian 8.56
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.28
11 Greek 12.13
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.38
13 Cyprian 12.43
14 Greek_Thessaly 12.72
15 Tuscan 13.84
16 Lebanese_Muslim 14.59
17 Syrian 15.16
18 Turkish 15.78
19 Jordanian 18.28
20 Samaritan 18.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% Italian_Jewish + 13.8% Chechen @ 3.01
2 85.6% Italian_Jewish + 14.4% Kabardin @ 3.16
3 85.6% Italian_Jewish + 14.4% Lezgin @ 3.19
4 86.1% Italian_Jewish + 13.9% Tabassaran @ 3.22
5 85.8% Italian_Jewish + 14.2% Balkar @ 3.22
6 67.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 32.1% Syrian @ 3.25
7 83.8% Italian_Jewish + 16.2% Kumyk @ 3.28
8 58.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 41.5% North_Italian @ 3.34
9 86.1% Italian_Jewish + 13.9% Adygei @ 3.39
10 51.4% Tuscan + 48.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.39
11 86.6% Italian_Jewish + 13.4% Ossetian @ 3.43
12 68.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 31.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.44
13 87% Italian_Jewish + 13% North_Ossetian @ 3.44
14 72.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 27.8% Jordanian @ 3.48
15 85.3% Italian_Jewish + 14.7% Nogay @ 3.54
16 72.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 27.6% Samaritan @ 3.56
17 52.4% Tuscan + 47.6% Syrian @ 3.58
18 65% Lebanese_Muslim + 35% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.58
19 65.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.6% Portuguese @ 3.58
20 73.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 26.3% Palestinian @ 3.64

[Samnium]

My East Med isn't particularly high. My West Asian is for an Ashkenazi, while the other "nothern" numbers are low, making me cluster with other Jews and Cypriots.

35% is a very high east med score but honestly I have seen S.Italian results with numbers like that so as you’ve said it’s your low Northern numbers that shift you southern.

[Pine]

35% is a very high east med score but honestly I have seen S.Italian results with numbers like that so as you’ve said it’s your low Northern numbers that shift you southern.

It's low Northern numbers + my West Asian. My non-Caucasoid components play a role too.

[فاروق]

Wow dude! Look at that:

1/4 North Italian 3/4 Levantine:

1 East_Med 28.79
2 West_Asian 17.08
3 West_Med 15.52
4 Atlantic 13.79
5 North_Sea 6.73
6 Red_Sea 5.63
7 Baltic 3.97
8 Northeast_African 3.81
9 Eastern_Euro 1.92
10 South_Asian 1.55
11 Amerindian 0.88
12 Oceanian 0.33

You:

1 East_Med 29
2 West_Asian 16.01
3 West_Med 15.17
4 Atlantic 12.47
5 Red_Sea 8.39
6 North_Sea 8.16
7 Eastern_Euro 3.26
8 Baltic 2.75
9 Southeast_Asian 2.22
10 Northeast_African 0.99
11 Oceanian 0.88
12 Sub-Saharan 0.7


Very cool! Almost same results. You are 3/4 Levantine. (:

[Pine]

Wow dude! Look at that:

1/4 North Italian 3/4 Levantine:

1 East_Med 28.79
2 West_Asian 17.08
3 West_Med 15.52
4 Atlantic 13.79
5 North_Sea 6.73
6 Red_Sea 5.63
7 Baltic 3.97
8 Northeast_African 3.81
9 Eastern_Euro 1.92
10 South_Asian 1.55
11 Amerindian 0.88
12 Oceanian 0.33

You:

1 East_Med 29
2 West_Asian 16.01
3 West_Med 15.17
4 Atlantic 12.47
5 Red_Sea 8.39
6 North_Sea 8.16
7 Eastern_Euro 3.26
8 Baltic 2.75
9 Southeast_Asian 2.22
10 Northeast_African 0.99
11 Oceanian 0.88
12 Sub-Saharan 0.7


Very cool! Almost same results. You are 3/4 Levantine. (:

Cool, except you mixed us up. I'm the second one.

[FinalFlash]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29
2 West_Asian 16.01
3 West_Med 15.17
4 Atlantic 12.47
5 Red_Sea 8.39
6 North_Sea 8.16
7 Eastern_Euro 3.26
8 Baltic 2.75
9 Southeast_Asian 2.22
10 Northeast_African 0.99
11 Oceanian 0.88
12 Sub-Saharan 0.7

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 5.59
2 Ashkenazi 6
3 South_Italian 6.15
4 Sephardic_Jewish 6.34
5 Central_Greek 6.38
6 Italian_Jewish 6.51
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.73
8 Algerian_Jewish 8.49
9 West_Sicilian 8.56
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.28
11 Greek 12.13
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.38
13 Cyprian 12.43
14 Greek_Thessaly 12.72
15 Tuscan 13.84
16 Lebanese_Muslim 14.59
17 Syrian 15.16
18 Turkish 15.78
19 Jordanian 18.28
20 Samaritan 18.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% Italian_Jewish + 13.8% Chechen @ 3.01
2 85.6% Italian_Jewish + 14.4% Kabardin @ 3.16
3 85.6% Italian_Jewish + 14.4% Lezgin @ 3.19
4 86.1% Italian_Jewish + 13.9% Tabassaran @ 3.22
5 85.8% Italian_Jewish + 14.2% Balkar @ 3.22
6 67.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 32.1% Syrian @ 3.25
7 83.8% Italian_Jewish + 16.2% Kumyk @ 3.28
8 58.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 41.5% North_Italian @ 3.34
9 86.1% Italian_Jewish + 13.9% Adygei @ 3.39
10 51.4% Tuscan + 48.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.39
11 86.6% Italian_Jewish + 13.4% Ossetian @ 3.43
12 68.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 31.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.44
13 87% Italian_Jewish + 13% North_Ossetian @ 3.44
14 72.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 27.8% Jordanian @ 3.48
15 85.3% Italian_Jewish + 14.7% Nogay @ 3.54
16 72.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 27.6% Samaritan @ 3.56
17 52.4% Tuscan + 47.6% Syrian @ 3.58
18 65% Lebanese_Muslim + 35% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.58
19 65.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.6% Portuguese @ 3.58
20 73.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 26.3% Palestinian @ 3.64

Post your K15 on Vahaduo

[Samnium]

It's low Northern numbers + my West Asian. My non-Caucasoid components play a role too.

Yep non-caucasoid elements in these calculators shift you a lot away of european cluster.

[Pine]

Post your K15 on Vahaduo

There are 3 of them on Vahaduo: Ancient, Updated, Original.

[FinalFlash]

There are 3 of them on Vahaduo: Ancient, Updated, Original.

Updated

[فاروق]

Cool, except you mixed us up. I'm the second one.

The difference is you've got less West Asian and more East Med. It's more likely that your Levantine ancestry comes from Samaritan-like source because Lebanese usually get a little bit higher West Asian than Samaritans.

[Pine]

Updated


Target: Me
Distance: 1.0506% / 1.05058994
24.6 Samaritan
18.6 Greek_Trabzon
9.6 Scotland
9.0 Italian_Jewish
8.8 Sardinian
7.6 Lebanese_Christian
7.4 French_Basque
4.8 Saudi
3.6 Austria-Tyrol
2.0 Dai
1.8 Tabassaran
1.0 Chuvash
0.6 Papuan
0.6 Yoruban

[FinalFlash]

Target: Me
Distance: 1.0506% / 1.05058994
24.6 Samaritan
18.6 Greek_Trabzon
9.6 Scotland
9.0 Italian_Jewish
8.8 Sardinian
7.6 Lebanese_Christian
7.4 French_Basque
4.8 Saudi
3.6 Austria-Tyrol
2.0 Dai
1.8 Tabassaran
1.0 Chuvash
0.6 Papuan
0.6 Yoruban

Let's see your oracle please.

[Pine]

Let's see your oracle please.


Distance to: Me
5.04971286 Italy_East_Sicily
5.21191903 Italy_Calabria
5.59194063 Italy_Central_Sicily
5.79984483 Italy_West_Sicily
6.12570812 East_Sicilian
6.34955904 Italy_Campania
6.64082826 South_Italian
6.76838976 Ashkenazi
6.96614671 Central_Greek
6.97921199 Greek_Crete
7.05565022 Italy_Apulia
7.23036652 Italy_Abruzzo
7.23112025 Sephardic_Jewish
7.43539508 Italian_Jewish
9.68151848 Algerian_Jewish
9.74735349 West_Sicilian
11.69946580 Tunisian_Jewish
11.73999095 GR_Peloponese
13.49183827 Albanian-South
13.66578940 Greek
13.71249795 Italy_Marche
13.90928826 Libyan_Jewish
14.40311772 Italy_Lazio
14.47384883 Greek_Thessaly
14.50861047 GR_Macedonia

[happycow]

Palestinian Christian
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238471-Palestinian-Christian-DNA-Gedmatch

Palestinian Muslim
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?240416-DNA-results-are-in!

I don't understand where this whole "Palestinian Christians have no arabian!" comes from considering their red sea averages is hardly any different from their islamic counter parts.

[samario]

Well, they seem to be unsure as to whether they are Levantine or white. I don't want to continue this discussion because I don't want be attacked for the "wrong" opinion.

You are mixing up concepts here. Levantines are indeed white/Caucasian and they are not European as in culture or language.

Levantines could easily pass in southern Europe (looks-wise).

[Smeagol]

What are you - the mischling of lies and truth? No one minds that Ashkenazim plot near Sicilians. They take issue when you misinterpret it.

It bothers them (including you) because the real Hebrews would have been much closer to Palestinian Christians. You can't be the chosen people anymore if you're so different from the original Jews.

[Pine]

It bothers them (including you) because the real Hebrews would have been much closer to Palestinian Christians. You can't be the chosen people anymore if you're so different from the original Jews.

Now you're just trolling.

[ModernMaskil]

It bothers them (including you) because the real Hebrews would have been much closer to Palestinian Christians. You can't be the chosen people anymore if you're so different from the original Jews.

Deez be da true true Hebrew

https://religionnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/webRNS-Hebrews-Splainer1-012219.jpg

[Abdelnour]

The difference is you've got less West Asian and more East Med. It's more likely that your Levantine ancestry comes from Samaritan-like source because Lebanese usually get a little bit higher West Asian than Samaritans.

Agreed. I think the Levant is a gradient when it comes to West Asian admixture. Syrians usually have the highest while Gazans usually have the lowest. Imo

[Leto]

You are mixing up concepts here. Levantines are indeed white/Caucasian and they are not European as in culture or language.

Levantines could easily pass in southern Europe (looks-wise).
I disagree. Some can pass but others cannot. It's a myth that all Syrians look like Greeks (or vice versa).

[samario]

I disagree. Some can pass but others cannot. It's a myth that all Syrians look like Greeks (or vice versa).


The Caucasian race (also Caucasoid or Europid) is a grouping of human beings historically regarded as a biological taxon, which, depending on which of the historical race classifications is used, has usually included ancient and modern populations from Europe, Western Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa.

Syrians don't look much different from southern Europeans, especially southeastern Europeans. They are at the same latitude and share the Eastern Mediterranean.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stelios_Katsanevakis/publication/230730002/figure/fig3/AS:667805481463810@1536228642164/Map-of-the-Levantine-basin-and-surrounding-countries.ppm

Some northern Greeks have Slavic admixture, though, so they might look a bit fairer on average, but they are all Caucasians and you can even find pale people in Syria. Just like this Palestinian refugee kid:

Moreover, bone structure is pretty Caucasoid in all of these countries.

https://live.staticflickr.com/188/441641018_6645cec785_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F2wuj)Palestinian refugee child (https://flic.kr/p/F2wuj) by shirien_87 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18746581@N00/), on Flickr

Even some Yemeni got light traits.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7339/11685394425_976be8cf1b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/iNAGDF)Yemeni Girl (https://flic.kr/p/iNAGDF) by Rod Waddington (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_waddington/), on Flickr

Yemeni youth:

https://live.staticflickr.com/541/18420152746_73ab89c333_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/u4J6Es)Local Girls, Sana'a, Yemen (https://flic.kr/p/u4J6Es) by Rod Waddington (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_waddington/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/2929/14195798129_e3646863e9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nCrbda)Girl in Sana'a, Yemen (https://flic.kr/p/nCrbda) by Rod Waddington (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_waddington/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/68/162877927_68dd4f4370_b.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/fleetnation/image/private/c_fit,w_1120/g_south,l_text:style_gothic2:%C2%A9%20Eric%20Laffo rgue,o_20,y_10/g_center,l_watermark4,o_25,y_50/v1514504141/kyejcnbjskmq6h6nnjpp.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/36/f6/2e36f64605bff93e8d012535692bbda6.jpg

Colombian of Levantine ancestry. Clearly Caucasian/white.

https://www.atptour.com/-/media/tennis/players/gladiator/2019/farah_full_ao19.png

https://cr00.epimg.net/radio/imagenes/2019/11/09/deportes/1573313769_305654_1573313983_noticia_normal.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XfzuTSeh1ls/maxresdefault.jpg

The term Caucasian/white goes beyond skin tone or light eyes. Levantines are usually tanned like southern Europeans, but light eyes or light hair can be a possibility even in southerly countries such as Yemen. Now Levantines are famed for having more people with light traits on average. Though, southern Europeans are not predominantly light-eyed or light-haired, either.

[Token]

I disagree. Some can pass but others cannot. It's a myth that all Syrians look like Greeks (or vice versa).

Not even 20% of Syrians can pass in Greece, lol. There are lots in South Brazil, i can spot them from a kilometer.

[Leto]

Not even 20% of Syrians can pass in Greece, lol. There are lots in South Brazil, i can spot them from a kilometer.
But Christian Lebs and Syrians did blend into Brazil very well, didn't they? I believe even a Brazilian presidential candidate was Lebanese. I guess most are miscegenated by now just like Japanese Brazilians.

[Token]

But Christian Lebs and Syrians did blend into Brazil very well, didn't they? I believe even a Brazilian presidential candidate was Lebanese. I guess most are miscegenated by now just like Japanese Brazilians.

Lebanese-Brazilians blend very well among white Brazilians and they are generally much more Euro-looking than Syrians, but that is probably due to mixing with white Brazilians. The Syrians that we have here are newcomers and their skin color is generally at least as dark as that of pardos.

[Leto]

Lebanese-Brazilians blend very well among white Brazilians and they are generally much more Euro-looking than Syrians, but that is probably due to mixing with white Brazilians. The Syrians that we have here are newcomers and their skin color is generally at least as dark as that of pardos.
Wow, didn't know there was significant Syrian Muslim immigration going on in Brazil.
Yes, most Syrians are light brown, quite a few look straight up like Usama Bin Laden type camel jockeys. Light features can be found but they are nowhere near as common as some are trying to claim.

[samario]

As dark as pardos? Well, that's surprising.

Here in Colombia Levantines tend to be lighter, not too different from Southern Europeans. They were not refugees but mostly Christian Levantines fleeing the Ottoman Empire.

Plus some Sephardic/Ashkenazi Jews and Conversos.

[happycow]

Some levantines can pass in South Europe sure. But come on. Most cannot.

[Kamal900]

Yeah, Christian Palestinians are mostly Levantine whereas Muslim Palestinians often show high levels of Arabian admixture. Original Jews are of Levantine ancestry, too.

From an ethnic standpoint, Palestinians with low levels of Arabian admixture and Jews are brothers, as well as Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese.

Palestinian Muslims in general have low Arabian/Bedouin admixture which is around 17% on average and more than 20% Egyptian. The rest is Levantine. Palestinians in general cluster with other Levantines.

[Kamal900]

First of all, nationalities are a very recent invention. Until the early 20th century all Christians called themselves Syrians (which was synonymous for Christian) and Muslims called themselves Arabs. A Christian from Damascus didn't consider himself any different from a Christian from Bethlehem.

The Holy Land is holy for Christians for a reason and throughout history it received Christians from all over the middle east.
The Christians of Haifa came mostly from Lebanon. The Christians of Jerusalem came from as far as Egypt and Armenia. Same for the Christians of Nazareth.

As Christians we don't marry our cousins and siblings like Muslims, that's why we would often travel to distant towns to find our partners. All Middle eastern Christians mingled and all have blood from the first Christians.

No. Christians weren't the only ones who called themselves as Syrians since the Muslims and the Druze also called themselves as such, and it has nothing to do with the Syriac ethnic identity either. Arabs had existed long before Islam, and there are plenty of Christians in the Levant who identify themselves as Arabs. You Maronites really have such an identity problem that it's baffling to say the least. In fact, it was the Arabs who invented the term "bilad al-sham" or Syria in today's context which even us Palestinians used to identify as Syrians before we started calling ourselves as Palestinians during the height of Arab nationalism and beyond. The Druze for example are just as genetically pure as their Christian counterparts, and yet, their religion used to be a sect of Islam before evolving into an independent religion.

[Kamal900]

Syrians don't look much different from southern Europeans, especially southeastern Europeans. They are at the same latitude and share the Eastern Mediterranean.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stelios_Katsanevakis/publication/230730002/figure/fig3/AS:667805481463810@1536228642164/Map-of-the-Levantine-basin-and-surrounding-countries.ppm

Some northern Greeks have Slavic admixture, though, so they might look a bit fairer on average, but they are all Caucasians and you can even find pale people in Syria. Just like this Palestinian refugee kid:

Moreover, bone structure is pretty Caucasoid in all of these countries.

https://live.staticflickr.com/188/441641018_6645cec785_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F2wuj)Palestinian refugee child (https://flic.kr/p/F2wuj) by shirien_87 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18746581@N00/), on Flickr

Even some Yemeni got light traits.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7339/11685394425_976be8cf1b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/iNAGDF)Yemeni Girl (https://flic.kr/p/iNAGDF) by Rod Waddington (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_waddington/), on Flickr

Yemeni youth:

https://live.staticflickr.com/541/18420152746_73ab89c333_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/u4J6Es)Local Girls, Sana'a, Yemen (https://flic.kr/p/u4J6Es) by Rod Waddington (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_waddington/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/2929/14195798129_e3646863e9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nCrbda)Girl in Sana'a, Yemen (https://flic.kr/p/nCrbda) by Rod Waddington (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_waddington/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/68/162877927_68dd4f4370_b.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/fleetnation/image/private/c_fit,w_1120/g_south,l_text:style_gothic2:%C2%A9%20Eric%20Laffo rgue,o_20,y_10/g_center,l_watermark4,o_25,y_50/v1514504141/kyejcnbjskmq6h6nnjpp.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/36/f6/2e36f64605bff93e8d012535692bbda6.jpg

Colombian of Levantine ancestry. Clearly Caucasian/white.

https://www.atptour.com/-/media/tennis/players/gladiator/2019/farah_full_ao19.png

https://cr00.epimg.net/radio/imagenes/2019/11/09/deportes/1573313769_305654_1573313983_noticia_normal.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XfzuTSeh1ls/maxresdefault.jpg

The term Caucasian/white goes beyond skin tone or light eyes. Levantines are usually tanned like southern Europeans, but light eyes or light hair can be a possibility even in southerly countries such as Yemen. Now Levantines are famed for having more people with light traits on average. Though, southern Europeans are not predominantly light-eyed or light-haired, either.

No. Most Levantines including Syrians stick out in Europe like a sore thumb. The reason why you see many Levantine Christians in Latin America look White is simply because they're heavily mixed with the European Hispanics and Brazilians of Latin America. I've been to the Levant countless times, and most of us don't look remotely Europeans at all. Turks are the most lightest looking people in west asia, and that's no exaggeration.

[Kamal900]

Some levantines can pass in South Europe sure. But come on. Most cannot.

The funny thing is that it's not Levantines themselves here who are claiming that they're Whites either. It's foreigners here who do which is making us look bad honestly.

[happycow]

The funny thing is that it's not Levantines themselves here who are claiming that they're Whites either. It's foreigners here who do which is making us look bad honestly.

I blame Sikeliot. His ghost continues to haunt this forum. xD

[Kamal900]

That's pretty much a prove that the vast majority of Palestinian Muslims are not indigenous to the Levant, I've seen some Muslims who took DNA test and they got only aabout 30%-45% Levanite with large amounts of Arabian, Egyptian and Mesopotamian admixture. Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews have usually more Levanite ancestry, what makes them more indigenous to Israel.

Care to show me some proof? All of the G25 results of Palestinian Muslims have over 50% Levantine, not under it. Our mixed Arabian and Egyptian admixture together accounts for 37% of our genepool. The rest is Levantine.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?305496-The-Genetic-Structure-of-Levantine-and-Egyptian-Arabs

[lameduck]

Care to show me some proof? All of the G25 results of Palestinian Muslims have over 50% Levantine, not under it. Our mixed Arabian and Egyptian admixture together accounts for 37% of our genepool. The rest is Levantine.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?305496-The-Genetic-Structure-of-Levantine-and-Egyptian-Arabs

bro just to get your attention (your opinion)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?311941-Pakistan-Swat-Saidu-Sharif-Buddhist-monastery-400-200BCE-samples

[Yorgo]

No. Christians weren't the only ones who called themselves as Syrians since the Muslims and the Druze also called themselves as such, and it has nothing to do with the Syriac ethnic identity either. Arabs had existed long before Islam, and there are plenty of Christians in the Levant who identify themselves as Arabs. You Maronites really have such an identity problem that it's baffling to say the least. In fact, it was the Arabs who invented the term "bilad al-sham" or Syria in today's context which even us Palestinians used to identify as Syrians before we started calling ourselves as Palestinians during the height of Arab nationalism and beyond. The Druze for example are just as genetically pure as their Christian counterparts, and yet, their religion used to be a sect of Islam before evolving into an independent religion.

I'm not Maronite. You think I'm Maronite simply because I'm using a Saint Charbel icon as my avatar? 💀 You clearly don't know anything about Middle Eastern Christians. Saint Charbel is beloved by all Middle Eastern Christians and we all pray for His intercession. It's amazing how culturally far removed Muslims are from Christians, 'Charbel' is one of the most popular names among Palestinians Christians, most of of whom are Greek Orthodox and Melkite Catholics, and you didn't even know that since you obviously have zero interaction with Palestinian Christians yet claims to be the same as them.💀

Syriac is actually just a derivation of Syrian, both mean the same thing - Christian. All the liturgically Syriac Churches used to until very recently be called Syrian Churches, until they officially changed their names since 'Syrian' now has more of an Arab Muslim connotation since they hijacked our identity. Yes, all Christians identified as Syrians and all Muslims as Arabs.

And I'm not surprised about the Druze, since their religion is actually way closer to Christianity than to Islam. The only aspect they retain from Islam is the Taqiyya. They reject the pedophile terrorist Mohammed and accept Jesus. Many of them actually hang a Cross necklace or the Rosary over the rear view mirror in their cars.

[Kamal900]

I'm not Maronite. You think I'm Maronite simply because I'm using a Saint Charbel icon as my avatar? �� You clearly don't know anything about Middle Eastern Christians. Saint Charbel is beloved by all Middle Eastern Christians and we all pray for His intercession. It's amazing how culturally far removed Muslims are from Christians, 'Charbel' is one of the most popular names among Palestinians Christians, most of of whom are Greek Orthodox and Melkite Catholics, and you didn't even know that since you obviously have zero interaction with Palestinian Christians yet claims to be the same as them.��

Syriac is actually just a derivation of Syrian, both mean the same thing - Christian. All the liturgically Syriac Churches used to until very recently be called Syrian Churches, until they officially changed their names since 'Syrian' now has more of an Arab Muslim connotation since they hijacked our identity. Yes, all Christians identified as Syrians and all Muslims as Arabs.

And I'm not surprised about the Druze, since their religion is actually way closer to Christianity than to Islam. The only aspect they retain from Islam is the Taqiyya. They reject the pedophile terrorist Mohammed and accept Jesus. Many of them actually hang a Cross necklace or the Rosary over the rear view mirror in their cars.

I'm an agnostic, so I don't give much crap about your beliefs and others. No, the word, Syrian, comes from the word Assyrian which became corrupted by the Greeks and Romans to refer to the region that is now Syria and Lebanon back then even though it wasn't inhabited by Assyrians. I have interacted with many of them, both in real life and on the internet. Can you back it up with proof? Syria - like Lebanon and other Levantine nations - was constructed by the Arab nationalists, which of whom were many Christians at that time, so it's not the same meaning as the Syriac or Assyrian peoples of Mesopotamia who are ethnically and genetically different from you guys despite that say the Maronites pray in the Syriac language and all. In other words, Syria was simply a regional name, not referring to an ethnicity or whatever. The Syriac churches for example are different from other Christian churches of the middle east, so you can't say that Copts have anything to do with your kind since they're genetically far more closer to us Palestinian Muslims than say to the Lebanese. Arab =/= Islam, but then again, Lebanon is heavily sectarian to the core, so it's not like it matters much to me or anything. Here's a thread about the history of the Arabs:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?306265-Ethnogenesis-of-the-Arabs

[Leto]

Some levantines can pass in South Europe sure. But come on. Most cannot.
Can the Apulian Graziano Pellè pass in the Levant?
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Graziano+Pelle+Italy+v+Bulgaria+UEFA+EURO+5T1jZOPK l62l.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/02/08/337B2A7F00000578-0-image-a-22_1462172739591.jpg
https://www.defeijenoorder.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Graziano-Pelle-in-het-nationale-elftal-van-Italie.jpg

[فاروق]

Can the Apulian Graziano Pellè pass in the Levant?
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Graziano+Pelle+Italy+v+Bulgaria+UEFA+EURO+5T1jZOPK l62l.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/02/08/337B2A7F00000578-0-image-a-22_1462172739591.jpg
https://www.defeijenoorder.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Graziano-Pelle-in-het-nationale-elftal-van-Italie.jpg

Yes

[Abdelnour]

Can the Apulian Graziano Pellè pass in the Levant?
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Graziano+Pelle+Italy+v+Bulgaria+UEFA+EURO+5T1jZOPK l62l.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/02/08/337B2A7F00000578-0-image-a-22_1462172739591.jpg
https://www.defeijenoorder.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Graziano-Pelle-in-het-nationale-elftal-van-Italie.jpg

I think there are a lot more Southern Euros that can pass in the Levant than vice versa. We are a relatively homogeneous group, afterall.

[happycow]

Can the Apulian Graziano Pellè pass in the Levant?
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Graziano+Pelle+Italy+v+Bulgaria+UEFA+EURO+5T1jZOPK l62l.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/02/08/337B2A7F00000578-0-image-a-22_1462172739591.jpg
https://www.defeijenoorder.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Graziano-Pelle-in-het-nationale-elftal-van-Italie.jpg

Yup :)

[Kamal900]

Can the Apulian Graziano Pellè pass in the Levant?
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Graziano+Pelle+Italy+v+Bulgaria+UEFA+EURO+5T1jZOPK l62l.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/02/08/337B2A7F00000578-0-image-a-22_1462172739591.jpg
https://www.defeijenoorder.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Graziano-Pelle-in-het-nationale-elftal-van-Italie.jpg

Yes. Easily.