Why Western Iberia is close to SE France?

[Tenma de Pegasus]

I dont get why Galicia, Catalunya, Portugal(and Castile Leon) appears close since they are on different sides of Iberia? Also its strange Galicia and Portugal seems close to SE France despite being so far of Auvergne-Rhone Alpes and Alpes Cotê d'Azur. I dont know if Im understanding the genetic map wrongly. If somebody could help, thanks anyway.

https://image.ibb.co/gKWmqf/EURO-PCA-v3.jpg

[Samnium]

I dont get why Galicia, Catalunya, Portugal(and Castile Leon) appears close since they are on different sides of Iberia? Also its strange Galicia and Portugal seems close to SE France despite being so far of Auvergne-Rhone Alpes and Alpes Cotê d'Azur. I dont know if Im understanding the genetic map wrongly. If somebody could help, thanks anyway.

https://image.ibb.co/gKWmqf/EURO-PCA-v3.jpg

The northern parts of Rhone-Alpes are close to W.German not at all Iberia. I would say that the "Iberian lean" begin in Grenoble approximately (Grenoble is here : http://ontheworldmap.com/france/city/grenoble/grenoble-location-on-the-france-map.jpg) and goes south and west. Also I don't believe that Aosta Valley is that "Iberian-shifted", to me they are similar to other people of Savoy genetically (atleast "Haute-Savoie").

People from Annecy from what I've seen are very close to Swiss French.

This map tend to confirm also that Swiss French and Swiss German are practically the same people, Swiss German being a bit more towards Germany but not by that much.

[Gota_type_]

I don´t know autosomally but it gets me a bit mad when I hear that French are lighter than Spaniards. Any French (no matter how "germanic" he could be) can pass unnoticed in Spain. And most Spaniards (except extreme Med types) can pass unnoticed in France. And people also make the mistake in thinking that when more South-West you go in Europe the darkest the people is. There are millions of Spaniards that are lighter than millions of French. Not just lighter but more European (or not "exotic" looking) looking.

I get the idea that some people think that we Spaniards are darker than any other central European country when there are millions that will pass unnotice in most European countries. And even some of us will pass unnoticed even in Scandinavia, Netherlands or UK (as it has happened to me many times).

[SharpFork]

This map tend to confirm also that Swiss French and Swiss German are practically the same people, Swiss German being a bit more towards Germany but not by that much.
German Swiss seem to be 50/50 Swiss French and Middle German so it's actually quite noticeable.

[Samnium]

German Swiss seem to be 50/50 Swiss French and Middle German so it's actually quite noticeable.

*50% S.German, but they are all close populations so it's not very noticeable in my opinion, also I don't know from which canton they took the samples because I would expect variation in between the Swiss French population. I'm sure that there are Swiss French that fall right into the Swiss German cluster.

[Samnium]

I don´t know autosomally but it gets me a bit mad when I hear that French are lighter than Spaniards. Any French (no matter how "germanic" he could be) can pass unnoticed in Spain. And most Spaniards (except extreme Med types) can pass unnoticed in France. And people also make the mistake in thinking that when more South-West you go in Europe the darkest the people is. There are millions of Spaniards that are lighter than millions of French. Not just lighter but more European (or not "exotic" looking) looking.

I get the idea that some people think that we Spaniards are darker than any other central European country when there are millions that will pass unnotice in most European countries. And even some of us will pass unnoticed even in Scandinavia, Netherlands or UK (as it has happened to me many times).

It's a fantasm, nowhere Iberia is as light as Normandy, Britonny, Pas de Calais, Alsace, Haute-Savoie, Iberians are darker in pigmentation.

Most spaniards can pass in southern France, overlap above would be a lot more difficult because of lacking Alpine types that's a very basic pheno for French as well as Dinarid types, and much less "Atlantids".

There are more "weird" looking Spaniards than weird looking French as well, in France you can't find exotic types that look MENA, in Spain you have some people like that. Same for Italy and other S.Euro countries.

[dududud]

It's a fantasm, nowhere Iberia is as light as Normandy, Britonny, Pas de Calais, Alsace, Haute-Savoie, Iberians are darker in pigmentation.

Most spaniards can pass in southern France, overlap above would be a lot more difficult because of lacking Alpine types that's a very basic pheno for French as well as Dinarid types, and much less "Atlantids".

There are more "weird" looking Spaniards than weird looking French as well, in France you can't find exotic types that look MENA, in Spain you have some people like that. Same for Italy and other S.Euro countries.

Because of 10% of north african in the Spaniard gene pool.

[Gota_type_]

It's a fantasm, nowhere Iberia is as light as Normandy, Britonny, Pas de Calais, Alsace, Haute-Savoie, Iberians are darker in pigmentation.

Most spaniards can pass in southern France, overlap above would be a lot more difficult because of lacking Alpine types that's a very basic pheno for French as well as Dinarid types, and much less "Atlantids".

There are more "weird" looking Spaniards than weird looking French as well, in France you can't find exotic types that look MENA, in Spain you have some people like that. Same for Italy and other S.Euro countries.

Are you really a french? Because it is false that there is "no ligther" region in Spain than Normandy or whatever. It is not about lighter or not, it is about that you can put millions of Spaniards (from any region) and will pass unnoticed in ANY region in France. I have seen many french and they are not lighter than us non-mediterranean looking Spaniards. And you also have millions of mediterranean looking french that are darker than millions of Spaniards.

The idea that the lightest Spaniards can also pass in SW France is absolutely stupid. In fact, even the most nordid-germanid french (which are rare) still looks french in some way. But the nordid-germanic Spaniards can pass unnoticed even in Netherlands or in Scandinavia (like me).

I have never seen a french that would be noticed in Spain as an outsider. And again you have millions of native french that are darker than MILLIONS of Spaniards.


Because of 10% of north african in the Spaniard gene pool.

Nice trolling, you ignorant. The "north-african" is just a label to 100% white caucasoid blood from ancient times. Northafricans are part caucasoids and that is where the link exists. And there is "north-african" even in France or Germany in 1-2% (in Eurogenes K15 for example), so did they have north-africans in the past, or is just a label from common caucasoid ancient ancestry? You guess.

[Leto]

It's a fantasm, nowhere Iberia is as light as Normandy, Britonny, Pas de Calais, Alsace, Haute-Savoie, Iberians are darker in pigmentation.

Most spaniards can pass in southern France, overlap above would be a lot more difficult because of lacking Alpine types that's a very basic pheno for French as well as Dinarid types, and much less "Atlantids".

There are more "weird" looking Spaniards than weird looking French as well, in France you can't find exotic types that look MENA, in Spain you have some people like that. Same for Italy and other S.Euro countries.
I thought you were a vehement opponent of people that swarthify Southern Europe, being a half Southern Italian yourself (arguably the swarthiest part of Europe).
I consider you very French though. If Kylian Mbappé is considered a Frenchman then you are much more French :thumb001: ;)

[Leto]

Are you really a french? Because it is false that there is "no ligther" region in Spain than Normandy or whatever. It is not about lighter or not, it is about that you can put millions of Spaniards (from any region) and will pass unnoticed in ANY region in France. I have seen many french and they are not lighter than us non-mediterranean looking Spaniards. And you also have millions of mediterranean looking french that are darker than millions of Spaniards.

The idea that the lightest Spaniards can also pass in SW France is absolutely stupid. In fact, even the most nordid-germanid french (which are rare) still looks french in some way. But the nordid-germanic Spaniards can pass unnoticed even in Netherlands or in Scandinavia (like me).

I have never seen a french that would be noticed in Spain as an outsider. And again you have millions of native french that are darker than MILLIONS of Spaniards.



Nice trolling, you ignorant. The "north-african" is just a label to 100% white caucasoid blood from ancient times. Northafricans are part caucasoids and that is where the link exists. And there is "north-african" even in France or Germany in 1-2% (in Eurogenes K15 for example), so did they have north-africans in the past, or is just a label from common caucasoid ancient ancestry? You guess.
Are you tested? I mean you claimed you scored some Siberian. Were you being serious?

[Adamastor]

Are you tested? I mean you claimed you scored some Siberian. Were you being serious?

No one saying Germans and French are as North African as Iberians can be considered serious IMO.

[mitalit]

Are you tested? I mean you claimed you scored some Siberian. Were you being serious?
it is quite normal for a Spaniard to have Siberian ...

[Leto]

it is quite normal for a Spaniard to have Siberian ...
Really? Since when? I thought it was unusual anywhere west of Poland and Hungary. Especially in Western and Southwestern Europe.

[mitalit]

Really? Since when? I thought it was unusual anywhere west of Poland and Hungary. Especially in Western and Southwestern Europe.
I have 1,63 on k13

[Tenma de Pegasus]

The northern parts of Rhone-Alpes are close to W.German not at all Iberia. I would say that the "Iberian lean" begin in Grenoble approximately (Grenoble is here : http://ontheworldmap.com/france/city/grenoble/grenoble-location-on-the-france-map.jpg) and goes south and west. Also I don't believe that Aosta Valley is that "Iberian-shifted", to me they are similar to other people of Savoy genetically (atleast "Haute-Savoie").

People from Annecy from what I've seen are very close to Swiss French.

This map tend to confirm also that Swiss French and Swiss German are practically the same people, Swiss German being a bit more towards Germany but not by that much.

WTF? This is not even my question.

Its not a discussion if SE France is more iberian or more german.

[Samnium]

WTF? This is no even my question.

Its not a discussion if SE France is more iberian or more german.

Well you included areas that aren't really "close" to iberian with other that are iberian/basque-like, I say that you have to put a border. Also I've noticed that Eastern France is much less Iberian shifted than Western and Central one, I don't know why though.

[Samnium]

Are you really a french? Because it is false that there is "no ligther" region in Spain than Normandy or whatever.


Normands have high level of blondness and fair eyes, what are you talking about ? They are basically celto-germanic people without East Med ancestry almost. Spaniards are southwestern people versus Normands that can be considered as NW people (they are very close to Brit populations etc.).



It is not about lighter or not, it is about that you can put millions of Spaniards (from any region) and will pass unnoticed in ANY region in France.

Lol. No. Spaniards are a med population, nothing wrong with it, collectively they absolutely can't fit in N.France or Eastern France. It's not possible.

They overlap well with southern regions, that's all.


I have seen many french and they are not lighter than us non-mediterranean looking Spaniards.

We are not talking about what you've seen but about incidence of light hair/fair eyes, French are way lighter than Spaniards in all the studies in physical anthropology that gathered datas about these physical traits.


In fact, even the most nordid-germanid french (which are rare) still looks french in some way.

Not true that all, there are lot of DaloFaelid/germanic types in Eastern France and those who have this phenotype don't look like French but like Germans. The most common french phenotypes are Atlantid, Alpine and Dinarid.


But the nordid-germanic Spaniards can pass unnoticed even in Netherlands or in Scandinavia (like me).

Lol. The nordid element in Iberia is very predominantly mixed, the same way as N.Italy. Iberia lacks the influences that are present in Nordid-Germanic types, one very important thing is CM.
The people that could pass in Scandinavia are very restricted and more a phenotypical outlier than anything else.


I have never seen a french that would be noticed in Spain as an outsider.

You haven't seen lot of French then, there are people that can't be mistaken as anything else than french, good troll.


I thought you were a vehement opponent of people that swarthify Southern Europe, being a half Southern Italian yourself (arguably the swarthiest part of Europe).
I consider you very French though. If Kylian Mbappé is considered a Frenchman then you are much more French :thumb001: ;)

Nothing wrong to be "darker" in pigmentation, simply saying that French are darker than Spaniards is false, and has to be corrected.

The same way if one french member would say that French are more nordid looking than Brits or Dutch people.

I don't like that lies are spread about my country.

[dududud]

Normands have high level of blondness and fair eyes, what are you talking about ? They are basically celto-germanic people without East Med ancestry almost. Spaniards are southwestern people versus Normands that can be considered as NW people (they are very close to Brit populations etc.).




Lol. No. Spaniards are a med population, nothing wrong with it, collectively they absolutely can't fit in N.France or Eastern France. It's not possible.

They overlap well with southern regions, that's all.



We are not talking about what you've seen but about incidence of light hair/fair eyes, French are way lighter than Spaniards in all the studies in physical anthropology that gathered datas about these physical traits.



Not true that all, there are lot of DaloFaelid/germanic types in Eastern France and those who have this phenotype don't look like French but like Germans. The most common french phenotypes are Atlantid, Alpine and Dinarid.



Lol. The nordid element in Iberia is very predominantly mixed, the same way as N.Italy. Iberia lacks the influences that are present in Nordid-Germanic types, one very important thing is CM.
The people that could pass in Scandinavia are very restricted and more a phenotypical outlier than anything else.



You haven't seen lot of French then, there are people that can't be mistaken as anything else than french, good troll.



Nothing wrong to be "darker" in pigmentation, simply saying that French are darker than Spaniards is false, and has to be corrected.

The same way if one french member would say that French are more nordid looking than Brits or Dutch people.

I don't like that lies are spread about my country.

It's not your country, you are mixed ass fuck. Southern italian (levantin blood).

[Leto]

It's not your country, you are mixed ass fuck. Southern italian (levantin blood).
Lol. Spanish and Italian immigrants assimilate fast and are generally accepted as French after one generation, even I know that. Why are you saying that?

[Samnium]

It's not your country, you are mixed ass fuck. Southern italian (levantin blood).

I'm half french, I bear a french name but this isn't my country ? You' aren't yourself 100% french, just saying. One thing : fuck off and enjoy your permaban as you've already banned 4 days for that.

People like you are more retarded than the "blacks" that you hate so much.

[Samnium]

Lol. Spanish and Italian immigrants assimilate fast and are generally accepted as French after one generation, even I know that. Why are you saying that?

He called to genocide southern italians, this guy would have like 70 IQ not more judging by his messages.

[Samnium]

Btw this guy believes that Sardos are a race superior to southern italians because they haven't any "Levantine", a Sardo nordicist or a Sardo supremacist, never seen that before.

[Leto]

He called to genocide southern italians, this guy would have like 70 IQ not more judging by his messages.
I don't know. He has never attacked or talked shit about me.

[Cristiano viejo]

@ dududud, motherfucker, stop claiming you are a pure French, being half Sardinian and looking 100% like one.


It's a fantasm, nowhere Iberia is as light as Normandy, Britonny, Pas de Calais, Alsace, Haute-Savoie, Iberians are darker in pigmentation.
French are lighter haired and eyed, that is obvious. But skin colour is pretty similar, like any European ethnicity.


IThere are more "weird" looking Spaniards than weird looking French as well, in France you can't find exotic types that look MENA, in Spain you have some people like that. Same for Italy and other S.Euro countries.

True that there are more exotic/MENA looking Spaniards than French, but you can find it among French too, and it is not that hard. Jerome Le Banner, Pierre Laval, the Clavier Brothers, are a few examples.

And with the pass of the time this will increases.

[Leto]

Btw this guy believes that Sardos are a race superior to southern italians because they haven't any "Levantine", a Sardo nordicist or a Sardo supremacist, never seen that before.
He doesn't look Nordic at all. Probably just as dark as you.
By the way, I really wanna see your own results. Please go ahead and buy one of those lousy tests for 50-60 euros :p

[Erronkari]

The northern parts of Rhone-Alpes are close to W.German not at all Iberia. I would say that the "Iberian lean" begin in Grenoble approximately (Grenoble is here : http://ontheworldmap.com/france/city/grenoble/grenoble-location-on-the-france-map.jpg) and goes south and west. Also I don't believe that Aosta Valley is that "Iberian-shifted", to me they are similar to other people of Savoy genetically (atleast "Haute-Savoie").

People from Annecy from what I've seen are very close to Swiss French.

This map tend to confirm also that Swiss French and Swiss German are practically the same people, Swiss German being a bit more towards Germany but not by that much.

About both swiss (german-speakers, french-speakers) are probably the same people nowadays.
The main settlers of my town (despite it was founded by a spanishman from Palencia, Castilla & León), were mostly basques, piedmontese and swiss.
And most of those swiss were from Valais and it curious that many of them had german surnames but used the french by main language.
Unhappily I don't know enough properly swiss people to ask them if It's that the families of =/= lenguage inner Switzerland "mixed" among them or which is the reason of that...
But that genetic stuff you are mentioning probably proves that fact...

[Samnium]

@ dududud, motherfucker, stop claiming you are a pure French, being half Sardinian and looking 100% like one.


French are lighter haired and eyed, that is obvious. But skin colour is pretty similar, like any European ethnicity.

Yes French overall have a pretty similar skin pigmentation range though there are a little bit more olive skinned people in Spain but it's still a minority.




True that there are more exotic/MENA looking Spaniards than French, but you can find it among French too, and it is not that hard. Jerome Le Banner, Pierre Laval, the Clavier Brothers, are a few examples.

Yes they exist of course, there is also Alexandre Astier that looks quite MENA or others.

French in their young age can sometimes be very MENA looking but growing they loose that ambiguous look. If you know what I mean.


And with the pass of the time this will increases.

Unfortunately yes. We will have more and more mixed people and extra-european minorities.

[Samnium]

About both swiss (german-speakers, french-speakers) are probably the same people nowadays.
The main settlers of my town (despite it was founded by a spanishman from Palencia, Castilla & León), were mostly basques, piedmontese and swiss.
And most of those swiss were from Valais and it curious that many of them had german surnames but used the french by main language.
Unhappily I don't know enough properly swiss people to ask them if It's that the families of =/= lenguage inner Switzerland "mixed" among them or which is the reason of that...
But that genetic stuff you are mentioning probably proves that fact...

Yeah really the border betwern Swiss French and Swiss German is pretty blurred genetically. You have german speaking cantons that are more southern geographically than french one that are close to Bale (like 1h30 of car travel).

I think that they are practically the same people, some parts of S.French might be a bit less german shifted however. I would expect others to be well in S.German cluster. It really depends on personal family background I believe.

[Samnium]

He doesn't look Nordic at all. Probably just as dark as you.
By the way, I really wanna see your own results. Please go ahead and buy one of those lousy tests for 50-60 euros :p

I have eyes that are a lot more lighter but overall it's a similar pigmentation (and even I don't care). Going by features I have more nordic features but again, I don't care at all. Only complexed people think that is important.

Yes I would do one day ! My results can be pretty interesting being half and half you can expect lot of different outcomes.

[SharpFork]

*50% S.German, but they are all close populations so it's not very noticeable in my opinion, also I don't know from which canton they took the samples because I would expect variation in between the Swiss French population. I'm sure that there are Swiss French that fall right into the Swiss German cluster.
Actually middle German, middle German seem closer to southern German than they are to Low-Saxon or Westfalians anyhow.

[Samnium]

Actually middle German, middle German seem closer to southern German than they are to Low-Saxon or Westfalians anyhow.

Interesting, yes Westphalians, Saxons and other more northern german regions are further north.

[Gota_type_]

Normands have high level of blondness and fair eyes, what are you talking about ? They are basically celto-germanic people without East Med ancestry almost. Spaniards are southwestern people versus Normands that can be considered as NW people (they are very close to Brit populations etc.).




Lol. No. Spaniards are a med population, nothing wrong with it, collectively they absolutely can't fit in N.France or Eastern France. It's not possible.

They overlap well with southern regions, that's all.



We are not talking about what you've seen but about incidence of light hair/fair eyes, French are way lighter than Spaniards in all the studies in physical anthropology that gathered datas about these physical traits.



Not true that all, there are lot of DaloFaelid/germanic types in Eastern France and those who have this phenotype don't look like French but like Germans. The most common french phenotypes are Atlantid, Alpine and Dinarid.



Lol. The nordid element in Iberia is very predominantly mixed, the same way as N.Italy. Iberia lacks the influences that are present in Nordid-Germanic types, one very important thing is CM.
The people that could pass in Scandinavia are very restricted and more a phenotypical outlier than anything else.



You haven't seen lot of French then, there are people that can't be mistaken as anything else than french, good troll.



Nothing wrong to be "darker" in pigmentation, simply saying that French are darker than Spaniards is false, and has to be corrected.

The same way if one french member would say that French are more nordid looking than Brits or Dutch people.

I don't like that lies are spread about my country.

It is you who is spreading lies about my country saying that just north Spaniards can pass in SW France. I have been like 6-7 times in different areas of France and ALL the people that I saw could pass in Spain unnoticed. ALL. Any of them. And 90% of Spaniards can pass unnoticed in France, in different degrees. Even the dark mediterranean types have clowns in France.

And again there are MILLIONS of Spaniards that are lighter than MILLIONS of native french. So, how can you say that only northern Spaniards can pass only in SW France?? LOL. Even a french thought that I was an English man when I was in rural France. And many Spaniards are lighter than many french. Not saying that this is better o not, I am just stating facts.

About how "nordic/germanic" the normands or bretons are. LOL. Most people in those regions look average french and all of them would pass unnoticed in Spain. And I say it again, even your germanic looking french have a french look for some reason, while many germanic looking Spaniards look quite NW European (UK, Netherlands or even Scandinavian, like me). Not talking about a majority, obviously, but a 5-10% of the population. And I don´t think that you have more than a 10% of germanic looking french.

Francoise Hollande as an average french would pass absolutely unnoticed here and most people would consider him a Spaniard if we saw him on the street. So, post some of your more extreme germanic/nordid french types and we will see what I say that your germanic french still look french. I don´t think you can find many french that look like these Spaniards (I put these examples but I could have posted hundred of thousands like them):
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?312383-Classify-2-Spanish-mulatto-brothers-from-Spain
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?312386-Classify-1-Spanish-mulatto-from-Spain

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

When you run averages of Iberian regions with Late Antiquity\Medieval samples you tend to notice that Western Iberians have more affinity with Imperial Rome and Suebi samples in comparison to their Eastern counterparts that tend to have slightly more native Basque-like ancestry (thus closer proximity to SW France). This makes Western Iberians have more proximity with SE France\NW Italy whom have a more similar genetic profile.

If you check my signature I fit this bill more or less. My highlighted regions are Galiza and Portugal plus Southern France and NW Italy.

[Samnium]

It is you who is spreading lies about my country saying that just north Spaniards can pass in SW France.

No it's you that are saying idiocies in all the threads where you're posting.


I have been like 6-7 times in different areas of France and ALL the people that I saw could pass in Spain unnoticed.

Not at all, you're vastly exagerating and thinking that you know better french looks than me.


And 90% of Spaniards can pass unnoticed in France, in different degrees. Even the dark mediterranean types have clowns in France.

In Southern France, not in all french regions.


And again there are MILLIONS of Spaniards that are lighter than MILLIONS of native french.

Anthropological statistics and genetics throw your bullshit out of this thread.

French are on average far lighter than Spaniards, it's a transition zone between Northern and Southern Europe but there are parts that are very close to NW Euros phenotypically and genetically, whereas Spain as a whole is Southern Europe.


So, how can you say that only northern Spaniards can pass only in SW France??

I don't say that they could only pass in SW France but surely the more you go north the least the fit would be good. You would have a hard time to pass a group of Spaniards as Alsatian or Parisian, they simply look different in pigmentation and features.


And many Spaniards are lighter than many french. Not saying that this is better o not, I am just stating facts.

I don't care if "many Spaniards" are lighter than some french, statistics prove that French are lighter in pigmentation.


About how "nordic/germanic" the normands or bretons are. LOL

Brittons and Normands are closer genetically to Brit islanders than to people from Central France, they are a NW European population, obviously I wouldn't expect you to know something about french genetics.


And I say it again, even your germanic looking french have a french look for some reason, while many germanic looking Spaniards look quite NW European (UK, Netherlands or even Scandinavian, like me).

Lol. Germanic looking french look germanic, there isn't any residual "french" component in their pheno, there are very few germanic looking Spaniards, for one reason : Spain isn't continental Europe and lack influences that are common amongst Germans : Alpine, CM, or more E.Europe influences (E.Germans).


Francoise Hollande as an average french would pass absolutely unnoticed here and most people would consider him a Spaniard if we saw him on the street.

François Hollande is an average southern french.


So, post some of your more extreme germanic/nordid french types and we will see what I say that your germanic french still look french. I don´t think you can find many french that look like these Spaniards (I put these examples but I could have posted hundred of thousands like them)

Lol. I've seen faces like that many times here (High-Savoy, french alpine region), and Spaniards looking like that are phenotypical outliers whereas here these are types quite common.

[Samnium]

double

[Gota_type_]

No it's you that are saying idiocies in all the threads where you're posting.



Not at all, you're vastly exagerating and thinking that you know better french looks than me.

Even the dark mediterranean types have clowns in France.

In Southern France, not in all french regions.



Anthropological statistics and genetics throw your bullshit out of this thread.

French are on average far lighter than Spaniards, it's a transition zone between Northern and Southern Europe but there are parts that are very close to NW Euros phenotypically and genetically, whereas Spain as a whole is Southern Europe.



I don't say that they could only pass in SW France but surely the more you go north the least the fit would be good. You would have a hard time to pass a group of Spaniards as Alsatian or Parisian, they simply look different in pigmentation and features.



I don't care if "many Spaniards" are lighter than some french, statistics prove that French are lighter in pigmentation.



Brittons and Normands are closer genetically to Brit islanders than to people from Central France, they are a NW European population, obviously I wouldn't expect you to know something about french genetics.



Lol. Germanic looking french look germanic, there isn't any residual "french" component in their pheno, there are very few germanic looking Spaniards, for one reason : Spain isn't continental Europe and lack influences that are common amongst Germans : Alpine, CM, or more E.Europe influences (E.Germans).



François Hollande is an average southern french.



Lol. I've seen faces like that many times here (High-Savoy, french alpine region), and Spaniards looking like that are phenotypical outliers whereas here these are types quite common.



As I said in the other thread I am just reading your posts "fast", here and there. I just saw your last phrase. Ok. Put some examples. I can find tons of Spaniards in internet like the ones in the pictures I told you. Can you post some french examples?? I am sure they still look like french and not true NW European.

By the way, in the end, the stupid phrase: "Africa starts in the pyrineos" it is correct. It starts in the pyrineos and ends in the limit with Netherlands... You have destroyed your own ethnic group forever. We are also bad in Spain about this, but it is not as extreme as in France. And I talked about the importance of Hispania for the Roman Empire since you consider yourself a "ROman Emperor". 3 of the Top5 Roman Emperors were from Hispania.

[Gota_type_]

When you run averages of Iberian regions with Late Antiquity\Medieval samples you tend to notice that Western Iberians have more affinity with Imperial Rome and Suebi samples in comparison to their Eastern counterparts that tend to have slightly more native Basque-like ancestry (thus closer proximity to SW France). This makes Western Iberians have more proximity with SE France\NW Italy whom have a more similar genetic profile.

If you check my signature I fit this bill more or less. My highlighted regions are Galiza and Portugal plus Southern France and NW Italy.

It is not just about genes, but looks. He says that only some Spaniards can pass in SW France when reality is a lot different. 90% of the people from Spain can pass unnoticed in any area of France. And all french can pass unnoticed in Spain. And millions of people from Spain are lighter than millions of native french.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

It is not just about genes, but looks. He says that only some Spaniards can pass in SW France when reality is a lot different. 90% of the people from Spain can pass unnoticed in any area of France. And all french can pass unnoticed in Spain. And millions of people from Spain are lighter than millions of native french.

When it comes to the overall look Western and Eastern Iberians overlap better with one another first and foremost than with any other region in Europe. I would even add that it is nearly impossible to guess from which region in the Iberian peninsula someone hails from merely based on how one looks since most phenotypes are evenly and homogeneously distributed across the territory.

I think the overlap between Spain and SW France is underestimated. SW Frenchmen are actually closer to NE Spaniards genetically than they are to the rest of French regions. The "real" natives of SW France (Frenchmen who do not have recent ancestry from other regions in France) tend to have significant Basque ancestry.

[mitalit]

When you run averages of Iberian regions with Late Antiquity\Medieval samples you tend to notice that Western Iberians have more affinity with Imperial Rome and Suebi samples in comparison to their Eastern counterparts that tend to have slightly more native Basque-like ancestry (thus closer proximity to SW France). This makes Western Iberians have more proximity with SE France\NW Italy whom have a more similar genetic profile.

If you check my signature I fit this bill more or less. My highlighted regions are Galiza and Portugal plus Southern France and NW Italy. How you did the map of your signature?¿

[Samnium]

As I said in the other thread I am just reading your posts "fast", here and there. I just saw your last phrase. Ok. Put some examples. I can find tons of Spaniards in internet like the ones in the pictures I told you. Can you post some french examples?? I am sure they still look like french and not true NW European.

I'm not here to do a group pictures war.


It starts in the pyrineos and ends in the limit with Netherlands... You have destroyed your own ethnic group forever. We are also bad in Spain about this, but it is not as extreme as in France.

Instead of pointing out the french situation you have to clean up your own backyard because Spain is on the same pathway as France, unfortunately.


I think the overlap between Spain and SW France is underestimated. SW Frenchmen are actually closer to NE Spaniards genetically than they are to the rest of French regions. The "real" natives of SW France (Frenchmen who do not have recent ancestry from other regions in France) tend to have significant Basque ancestry.

Yes there is a real gap between SW France and the others regions that are much more northern or eastern shifted. This is a very peculiar region, to me Aquitanians are basically gallicized Basques.


And all french can pass unnoticed in Spain

You're repeating lies.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

How you did the map of your signature?¿

You need to get in contact with Lukasz Macuga, either by sending him a private message (he is a member of TA that goes by the nickname Lukasz) or through his website: http://www.lm-genetics.ovh

[mitalit]

You need to get in contact with Lukasz Macuga, either by sending him a private message (he is a member of TA that goes by the nickname LukaszM) or through his website: http://www.lm-genetics.ovh

Thanks!

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

double

Dude, you are pretty much a hypocrite. You criticised Croats because we didn't like the fact darker ethnicities like Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks are darkwashing us but when a Spaniard does the same for French you get pissed. And I totally agree with your posts, but don't be two faced man as nobody likes to read bullshit from darker groups claiming they're pretty identical to you which isn't the case as Spaniards are obviously woggier than French lmao

[Samnium]

Dude, you are pretty much a hypocrite. You criticised Croats because we didn't like the fact darker ethnicities like Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks are darkwashing us but when a Spaniard does the same for French you get pissed. And I totally agree with your posts, but don't be two faced man as nobody likes to read bullshit from darker groups claiming they're pretty identical to you which isn't the case as Spaniards are obviously woggier than French lmao

I don't start thread asking if "Spaniards are lighter than French" or things like that, I don't care about who's lighter or darker, we're all dark wogs for Finnish or Swedes, it's simply that I can't see idiocies like that spread here on TA. The same way as Italians are darkwashed and exocitized.

I criticized Croat users because being obsessed by lightness and by despising other Balkan countries. You can search in the threads that I've wrote, I don't have any anti-iberian agenda. In fact I was one of the few that defended Iberia when some tried to darkwash it.

[Leto]

I don't start thread asking if "Spaniards are lighter than French" or things like that, I don't care about who's lighter or darker, we're all dark wogs for Finnish or Swedes, it's simply that I can't see idiocies like that spread here on TA. The same way as Italians are darkwashed and exocitized.

I criticized Croat users because being obsessed by lightness and by despising other Balkan countries. You can search in the threads that I've wrote, I don't have any agenda.
Well, they are lighter though, that's a fact.
And people can like being light, why can't they? Or only swarthy pride is a good thing. I don't care about classification, especially on this forum it's all a crock of shit but I'm fine with my "Baltic" looks, I'm fairly light but not pale like a ghost. Thank God I look fairly balanced.

[Samnium]

Well, they are lighter though, that's a fact.
And people can like being light, why can't they? Or only swarthy pride is a good thing. I don't care about classification, especially on this forum it's all a crock of shit but I'm fine with my "Baltic" looks, I'm fairly light but not pale like a ghost. Thank God I look fairly balanced.

I don't see anything wrong about being proud of some light or dark features, it becomes anthrotardism when you're beginning to make threads to ask if one ethnicity is whiter than another because of more lightness or whatever. To me both are part of the european variation, that's very unique to Europe.

I'm fine as well with my light-mixed eyes and my dark hair, I wouldn't like to dye it to appears lighter.

Only retarded and complexed people make that a problem.

But I agree that very light skin types don't look very "good" either as well as the extreme dark-skinned types that you can find, the best is the average.

[Erronkari]

I don't see anything wrong about being proud of some light or dark features, it becomes anthrotardism when you're beginning to make threads to ask if one ethnicity is whiter than another because of more lightness or whatever. To me both are part of the european variation, that's very unique to Europe.

I'm fine as well with my light-mixed eyes and my dark hair, I wouldn't like to dye it to appears lighter.

Only retarded and complexed people make that a problem.

Indeed I ve never known anybody who dreamt to be different being lighter in real life (talking about friends, mates, etc.).
At least not in adult ages.
Only one girl, a school mate I remember she usually said that she "envied" (literally) most of other mates because we were lighter...
I was around 18 and I really didn 't understand why a person could find that fact important.
Well... in my case there are some caracteristics of myself that I don't like (rough and not very aesterical traits, horsy face, etc) but not for that reason I dream to change something or envy others. ;)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I don't start thread asking if "Spaniards are lighter than French" or things like that, I don't care about who's lighter or darker, we're all dark wogs for Finnish or Swedes, it's simply that I can't see idiocies like that spread here on TA. The same way as Italians are darkwashed and exocitized.

I criticized Croat users because being obsessed by lightness and by despising other Balkan countries. You can search in the threads that I've wrote, I don't have any anti-iberian agenda. In fact I was one of the few that defended Iberia when some tried to darkwash it.

I got very dark hair myself but objectively speaking lot of darkest Euro ethnic groups are butthurt about it and always denying they are darker than their lighter neighbours. Going by that there is no darkest group in Europe as every group claims they are not. Have you ever seen Greek saying yeah we're darkest and so what? Nope. So it's a fact they do have certain complex about it...just my 2 cents

[Samnium]

Indeed I ve never known anybody who dreamt to be different being lighter in real life (talking about friends, mates, etc.).
At least not in adult ages.
Only one girl, a school mate I remember she usually said that she "envied" (literally) most of other mates because de were lighter...
I was around 18 and I really didn 't understand why a person could find that fact important.
Well... in my case there are some caracteristics of myself that I don't like (rough and not very aesterical traits, horsy face, etc) but not for that reason I dream to change something or envy others. ;)

There are lot of people that bleach their hair or that wear eye lens but I don't think that's for being more "Nordic looking" or whatever, it's just that they like this color, just exactly like blondes that dye their hair on brown/chestnut tones.

Only on forums like TA you would find people that would be obsessed by lightness (I'm talking about European people), IRL it doesn't exist really.

[Samnium]

I got very dark hair myself but objectively speaking lot of darkest Euro ethnic groups are butthurt about it and always denying they are darker than their lighter neighbours. Going by that there is no darkest group in Europe as every group claims they are not. Have you ever seen Greek saying yeah we're darkest and so what? Nope. So it's a fact they do have certain complex about it...just my 2 cents

I've only seen that on TA, really in real life nobody cares about that, and features/skull are much more important than pigmentation.

There are groups that are arguably darker but again it's a TA discussion, not even the modern scientists are doing studies about who's lighter or darker amongst Europeans.

Some might have a complex about that but really I've seen lot of southern euros since my infancy, even in the school (Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Serbians, even Greeks) and they don't care. And they are right.

People like Sicilians don't give a fuck (excuse me the expression) about having some fair-haired individuals or darker one. Same for eyes and skin tone.

[Leto]

I've only seen that on TA, really in real life nobody cares about that, and features/skull are much more important than pigmentation.

There are groups that are arguably darker but again it's a TA discussion, not even the modern scientists are doing studies about who's lighter or darker amongst Europeans.

Some might have a complex about that but really I've seen lot of southern euros since my infancy, even in the school (Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Serbians, even Greeks) and they don't care. And they are right.

People like Sicilians don't give a fuck (excuse me the expression) about having some fair-haired individuals or darker one. Same for eyes and skin tone.
Latinos and some Muslims secretly want to be white. They love white pu$$y for this reason. Some Latinos would go as far as to marry a trashy Eastern Euro prostitute in order to whiten their genetics. No kidding. Some Turks also love Russian, Ukrainian women for this reason.

[Samnium]

Latinos and some Muslims secretly want to be white. They love white pu$$y for this reason. Some Latinos would go as far as to marry a trashy Eastern Euro prostitute in order to whiten their genetics. No kidding. Some Turks also love Russian, Ukrainian women for this reason.

Yes Non-Euros are the one who like to lightwash themselves the most and that would like to have euro ancestry. Though mostly Latinos that are mongrels.

And yes I've seen quite a few half latino half full euro on reddit, it doesn't seems to be only a meme.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Latinos and some Muslims secretly want to be white. They love white pu$$y for this reason. Some Latinos would go as far as to marry a trashy Eastern Euro prostitute in order to whiten their genetics. No kidding. Some Turks also love Russian, Ukrainian women for this reason.

Sand niggers of all kinds from Turkey to India would sell their mother to get a Slavic wife so yeah you have a point.

[Leto]

Yes Non-Euros are the one who like to lightwash themselves the most and that would like to have euro ancestry. Though mostly Latinos that are mongrels.

And yes I've seen quite a few half latino half full euro on reddit, it doesn't seems to be only a meme.
Yeah but many Latinos are still European enough to have white-looking children. I mean those that are 50+% Euro.

[Samnium]

Sand niggers of all kinds from Turkey to India would sell their mother to get a Slavic wife so yeah you have a point.

Even more than NW or W.Euros IMO.

Non-Euros that worship literally Slavic womens like from Russia are plenty. Unfortunately sometimes it makes mongrels like half polish half african or half polish half central american.


Yeah but many Latinos are still European enough to have white-looking children. I mean those that are 50+% Euro.

Depends really on what range we're talking about. 55% euro the rest SSA makes a quadroon and not-white looking most of the time, Amerindian influence is not easy to spot sometimes when it's mixed with Euro.

Most of the time their offspring look non-euro.

[Leto]

Sand niggers of all kinds from Turkey to India would sell their mother to get a Slavic wife so yeah you have a point.
It's true that fair-skinned women are valued over there. Objectively true and has nothing to do with alleged European racism.

[Latinus]

Yes Non-Euros are the one who like to lightwash themselves the most and that would like to have euro ancestry. Though mostly Latinos that are mongrels.

And yes I've seen quite a few half latino half full euro on reddit, it doesn't seems to be only a meme.

Show me a post of mine where I lightwashed Brazil? Or you don't mean all Latinos?
Stating the fact, that Brazil is mainly Euro in genetics and culture is not lightwashing my country, it's being realistic. The image Brazil exports to world has been very darkwashed, and I don't see gringos here complaining about that, but when we prove that Brazil is not really like the stereotypes, we're accused of "whitewashing".

[Samnium]

Show me a post of mine where I lightwashed Brazil? Or you don't mean all Latinos?
Stating the fact, that Brazil is mainly Euro in genetics and culture is not lightwashing my country, it's being realistic. The image Brazil exports to world has been very darkwashed, and I don't see gringos here complaining about that, but when we prove that Brazil is not really like the stereotypes, we're accused of "whitewashing".

When I say "non-euros" it's real Latinos not you or other Euros that live in Brazil or in other countries.

Of course Brazil isn't all pardo or mulatto, there are lot of people with +80% ancestry there.

[Leto]

Even more than NW or W.Euros IMO.

Non-Euros that worship literally Slavic womens like from Russia are plenty. Unfortunately sometimes it makes mongrels like half polish half african or half polish half salvadorian.



Depends really on what range we're talking about. 55% euro the rest SSA makes a quadroon and not-white looking most of the time, Amerindian influence is not easy to spot sometimes when it's mixed with Euro.

Most of the time their offspring look non-euro.
15-20% Amerindian is oftentimes invisible. Sometimes even more. To me personally a lot better than proper mulattoes. In fact the Amerindian dilutes faster than the proper East Eurasian.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Six pages and sixty posts and so far I was the only one that attempted to give an explanation based on genetics to the OP.

TA :love0033:

[Samnium]

15-20% Amerindian is oftentimes invisible. Sometimes even more. To me personally a lot better than proper mulattoes. In fact the Amerindian dilutes faster than the proper East Eurasian.

Yes Amerindians are half ANE half East Asian after all, to me african component is a lot harder to "dilute". If you see all Castizos plot around Europe whereas Quadroons, not at all. They are very southern shifted.

Some amerindian features can be found also in Europeans, people like Sitting Bull were the exact copy of Afontova Gora reconstructions. At the same time african one are very different and don't overlap at all (you wouldn't find any european with a black nose).

[Dick]

Yes Amerindians are half ANE half East Asian after all, to me african component is a lot harder to "dilute". If you see Castizos plot around Europe whereas Quadroons, not at all. They are very southern shifted.

Some amerindians features can be found also in Europeans, people like Sitting Bull were the exact copy of Afontova Gora reconstructions. At the same time african one are very different and don't overlap at all (you wouldn't find any european with a black nose).

I had a black nose when I was a baby and Asian penis

[Bosniensis]

I had a black nose when I was a baby and Asian penis

You hoped for opposite?

[Adamastor]

Yes Amerindians are half ANE half East Asian after all, to me african component is a lot harder to "dilute". If you see all Castizos plot around Europe whereas Quadroons, not at all. They are very southern shifted.

Some amerindian features can be found also in Europeans, people like Sitting Bull were the exact copy of Afontova Gora reconstructions. At the same time african one are very different and don't overlap at all (you wouldn't find any european with a black nose).

True, even small quantities of SSA can take one out of the European cluster in these Eurogenes PCA plots. I mean, 15% SSA is enough to make a Swede plot like a Sicilian, 25% makes a 75% Swede plot in Sahara lol.

Subsaharan ancestry is very hard to dillute. IMO this is the scale from easiest to hardest: MENA (half MENA and half European plots in Europe and usually look European), Amerindian (30% or lower starts to be invisible), East African, Australoid, East Asian, Subsaharan/West African.

I think proper East Eurasian/East Asian is also very hard to dillute. I've seen many people a quarter Japanese here looking very Japanese influenced. It's no wonder someone 75% East Asian and 25% Subsaharan generally can pass as fully East Asian, but with European it's not always the case, quite the contrary (especially Southern European).

[Samnium]

True, even small quantities of SSA can take one out of the European cluster in these Eurogenes PCA plots. I mean, 15% SSA is enough to make a Swede plot like a Sicilian, 25% makes a 75% Swede plot in Sahara lol.

Subsaharan ancestry is very hard to dillute. IMO this is the scale from easiest to hardest: MENA (half MENA and half European plots in Europe and usually look European), Amerindian (30% or lower starts to be invisible), East African, Australoid, East Asian, Subsaharan/West African.

I think proper East Eurasian/East Asian is also very hard to dillute. I've seen many people a quarter Japanese here looking very Japanese influenced. It's no wonder someone 75% East Asian and 25% Subsaharan generally can pass as fully East Asian, but with European it's not always the case, quite the contrary (especially Southern European).

Yes East Asian ancestry is very hard to dilute because they are the farthest people to Europeans with SSA's, actually Europeans are even closer to most of SSA's than to E.Asians.

I've seen an half german half lebanese plotting in Abruzzo so yeah I agree for most of MENAs but not NA/Saudis/Yemenis/Pakistanis. These are fringes and mixing with them would make you cluster well outside the european cluster.
25% makes you plotting as a NA I would say, in the NA average (not the more southern shifted neither northern).

[Latinus]

When I say "non-euros" it's real Latinos not you or other Euros that live in Brazil or in other countries.

Of course Brazil isn't all pardo or mulatto, there are lot of people with +80% ancestry there.

I'm not European, I'm Brazilian, I don't understand what you're saying, having a white phenotype doesn't mean I'm not a real Latino/Brazilian. Most Brazilians identify with our country regardless of race, the average white Brazilian don't feel attached to Europe and most of them don't know they look (Southern) European.

[Adamastor]

Yes East Asian ancestry is very hard to dilute because they are the farthest people to Europeans with SSA's, actually Europeans are even closer to most of SSA's than to E.Asians.

25% makes you plotting as a NA I would say, in the NA average (not the more southern shifted neither northern).

I think it depends on one's ancestry. 75% Swedish and 25% SSA would plot near North Africans, 75% Portuguese and 25% SSA would plot deep in Sahara because he would have more deep SSA related components and more Med components pushing him south.

That's why Northern European Quadroons look whiter (and sometimes even fully European) than Latin American/South Euro Quadroons.

[Samnium]

I think it depends on one's ancestry. 75% Swedish and 25% SSA would plot near North Africans, 75% Portuguese and 25% SSA would plot deep in Sahara because he would have more deep SSA related components and more Med components pushing him south.

That's why Northern European Quadroons look whiter (and sometimes even fully European) than Latin American/South Euro Quadroons.

Yes you're totally true, people doesn't want to admit it but South euro quadroons look almost all the time off whereas NW Euro one can look very pred. white like Ryan Giggs, I didn't even knowed that he was a quadroon.

For genetic as well because N.Euros have a tad more Northern components that push them further away from any south med population (NAs) so yes.

[Leto]

Yes East Asian ancestry is very hard to dilute because they are the farthest people to Europeans with SSA's, actually Europeans are even closer to most of SSA's than to E.Asians.

No way. Both are still Eurasians.
At least I can tell you for sure in Russia the East Eurasian influence is very old and deep-rooted (long before the Mongol invasion) while black people were literally absent until the first African students came in the 1960s to study in the Soviet Union.
That said, I agree, sometimes even like 10-15% Mongoloid can be noticeable. At least to a Western or Southern European eye.

[Leto]

Yes you're totally true, people doesn't want to admit it but South euro quadroons look almost all the time off whereas NW Euro one can look very pred. white like Ryan Giggs, I didn't even knowed that he was a quadroon.

For genetic as well because N.Euros have a tad more Northern components that push them further away from any south med population (NAs) so yes.
Do you know Alessio? Dimanto or something on Anthrogenica. He is half Campanian half Northern Dutch and people would tell him he looks Moroccan. I had his photos, he sent me but I don't share anything without the sender's permission.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

When you run averages of Iberian regions with Late Antiquity\Medieval samples you tend to notice that Western Iberians have more affinity with Imperial Rome and Suebi samples in comparison to their Eastern counterparts that tend to have slightly more native Basque-like ancestry (thus closer proximity to SW France). This makes Western Iberians have more proximity with SE France\NW Italy whom have a more similar genetic profile.

If you check my signature I fit this bill more or less. My highlighted regions are Galiza and Portugal plus Southern France and NW Italy.

Yes, this is the first good commentary in this thread and you are a perfect example of this genetic paradox. SE France is closer to Portugal/Galiza than SW France. Its very interesting your map shows Portugaliza closer to regions even bordering Paris(or Swiss too) than to Navarre, Andaluzia and Extremadura. Castile-Madrid is on the middle and Catalunya is closer to Portugal-Galiza despite being on the mediterranean coast bordering France. The OP map also shows similar genetic orgazation and your explanation was also good. About Basque Country, they appear even far than any iberian and thats very clear why. That said, I still think iberians are very close to each other and the area of the Peninsula is impressive homogeneous compared to other parts of Europe. I just noticed small pecualiar tendances and perceveid how interesting they are. Also, about the french guy, my intention was not to say that Faro and Grenoble have the exactly same people haha and they are the most closer to each other, no haha. The most closer people to West Iberians are other East, Central, South and North Iberians followed by Southern French and North Italians(maybe basques can be somewhat far, but not at all too).

Other users attacking Southern Italians was just so unnecessary and ridiculous to see such uncivilized behavir amon SOME europeans. Generalization is complicated most of the time, of course southern italians lighter than half frenchs or 100% french people exists. The person is not automatically a half lebanese just because he is half south italian like some users think and comment.

https://i.postimg.cc/XvNdbsRY/Sem_T_tulo.png

[Tenma de Pegasus]

When it comes to the overall look Western and Eastern Iberians overlap better with one another first and foremost than with any other region in Europe. I would even add that it is nearly impossible to guess from which region in the Iberian peninsula someone hails from merely based on how one looks since most phenotypes are evenly and homogeneously distributed across the territory.

I think the overlap between Spain and SW France is underestimated. SW Frenchmen are actually closer to NE Spaniards genetically than they are to the rest of French regions. The "real" natives of SW France (Frenchmen who do not have recent ancestry from other regions in France) tend to have significant Basque ancestry.

Maybe Iberia Peninsula should start at SW France. It would be crazy to see Bordeaux as the first iberian city.

[Cristiano viejo]

Maybe Iberia Peninsula should start at SW France. It would be crazy to see Bordeaux as the first iberian city.

Iberians also lived in what now is the eastern part of France, and historically, and of course culturally, the Rosellón and the Cerdaña, now parts of France, are linked to Iberia since ever.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Latinos and some Muslims secretly want to be white. They love white pu$$y for this reason. Some Latinos would go as far as to marry a trashy Eastern Euro prostitute in order to whiten their genetics. No kidding. Some Turks also love Russian, Ukrainian women for this reason.

White Americans old men are the boss at maring poor east european prostitutes sir. There is even tv programs about that. Are they white wannabes because of that? Trump is a big white wanna be you know.

Also many europeans, especially italians, married a lot of the most poor stractum of women in my city around 1990-2004.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Iberians also lived in what now is the eastern part of France, and historically, and of course culturally, the Rosellón and the Cerdaña, now parts of France, are linked to Iberia since ever.

Maybe Madrid could conquer all SW Europe in the next centuries haha.

The geographic shape of this country would be very cool.

[Cristiano viejo]

Do you know Alessio? Dimanto or something on Anthrogenica. He is half Campanian half Northern Dutch and people would tell him he looks Moroccan. I had his photos, he sent me but I don't share anything without the sender's permission.

:thumb001:

[Cristiano viejo]

Maybe Madrid could conquer all SW Europe in the next centuries haha.

The geographic shape of this country would be very cool.
Madrid deserves napalm, just sayin.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Six pages and sixty posts and so far I was the only one that attempted to give an explanation based on genetics to the OP.

TA :love0033:

Pretty true man. But I already expected this result.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

When I say "non-euros" it's real Latinos not you or other Euros that live in Brazil or in other countries.

Of course Brazil isn't all pardo or mulatto, there are lot of people with +80% ancestry there.

White brazilians never consider themselves europeans, just what they are, white persons from the New World.

Outside those internet forums, most brazilians prefer to darkwash themselves and their country.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

I'm not European, I'm Brazilian, I don't understand what you're saying, having a white phenotype doesn't mean I'm not a real Latino/Brazilian. Most Brazilians identify with our country regardless of race, the average white Brazilian don't feel attached to Europe and most of them don't know they look (Southern) European.

As discussões nesses foruns são inutéis e por mais que uma pequena minoria seja informada/conscientizada com o passar do tempo e leitura de raros posts com informações, sempre chega mais gente desinformada e repleta de estereótipos. Eu mesmo já reduzi minha participação bastante e com certeza vou reduzir ainda mais.

[Samnium]

Do you know Alessio? Dimanto or something on Anthrogenica. He is half Campanian half Northern Dutch and people would tell him he looks Moroccan. I had his photos, he sent me but I don't share anything without the sender's permission.

Ah yes I know Dimanto, cool guy.

I didn't know that he looked moroccan.

I look Central Euro/French so I guess that the outlook depends heavily on how your Italian side look like.

There are people that are 25% Sicilian and 75% NW Euro still looking very East Med, lol.

[Latinus]

As discussões nesses foruns são inutéis e por mais que uma pequena minoria seja informada/conscientizada com o passar do tempo e leitura de raros posts com informações, sempre chega mais gente desinformada e repleta de estereótipos. Eu mesmo já reduzi minha participação bastante e com certeza vou reduzir ainda mais.

I agree. But write in English, please, we're not in the Brazilian section.

[Samnium]

Also, about the french guy, my intention was not to say that Faro and Grenoble have the exactly same people haha and they are the most closer to each other, no haha.

I think really that la Loire is a genetical border, and that in Grenoble begin somewhat the Iberian lean in Eastern France.

Something that you would see as interesting :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENyyN0hWkAEEQ6N?format=jpg&name=medium

See how north the central France cluster goes, it's pretty impressive, and all this cluster is closer to Iberians than NW euros.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

I think really that la Loire is a genetical border, and that in Grenoble begin somewhat the Iberian lean in Eastern France.

Something that you would see as interesting :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENyyN0hWkAEEQ6N?format=jpg&name=medium

See how north the central France cluster goes, it's pretty impressive, and all this cluster is closer to Iberians than NW euros.

Yep, I can see 4 tendances in France:

The First as pink seems to resemble more British Islands.

The second as yellow seems to resemble Iberia.

The third as dark blue maybe resemble north europe as whole.

The fourth as small light blue probably indicate some padanian.