Spain VS Italy; which country has better food and women?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Topic.

[Lasituacion]

No poll?

[Allenson]

Food, Italy.

Women, Spain.

:)

[Sikeliot]

Food, Italy.

Women, Spanish.

:)

Agree.

[Amapola]

Oh no... another thread of this kind?
Naughty Apotheosis! this can't end well :p

[Lasituacion]

I think Spanish food it's very underrated.
If you're a Sea food lover, Spain it's the right choice.

[Sikeliot]

The poll should have been;

Food - Italy
Food - Spain
Women - Italy
Women - Spain

and been multiple choice so you can choose one for food, one for women. But men should have been included as well or just "People"

[Ibericus]

Spain. Food and women.

[supergiovane]

Spain is better at tennis but Italy is better in winter sports.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The poll should have been;

Food - Italy
Food - Spain
Women - Italy
Women - Spain

and been multiple choice so you can choose one for food, one for women. But men should have been included as well or just "People"

All or nothing. :thumbs up

[Agrippa]

Food, Italy.

Women, Spain.

:)

My position as well.

[SilverKnight]

Spain -
women
football

Italy-
Food
climate

[Sikeliot]

As an Iberian-descendant I have to go with Spain on this one if it is all or nothing. ;)

[_______]

italy

[Bard]

I voted for italy, I think that italian cuisine is overall better but i have to admit that certain spanish products and dishes are way better. I've heard that spanish ham is way better than the italian one, especially pata negra.

[Amapola]

I voted Spain because it's all or nothing, but I think Spanish food can be exceptional (although not so popular) and some Italian women can look very fine and beautiful.

[gold_fenix]

absurd, both countries have a great mediterranean food and nice women and we are very similar

[Agrippa]

absurd, both countries have a great mediterranean food and nice women and we are very similar

Sure, both have a good quality of both assets. :thumb001:

Overall, they are much more similar to each other than to many other nations, to put it that way.

However, the small remaining difference results in Italy having a wider variety of, let's say "more sophisticated" foods and the Spanish women might be - on average - somewhat more attractive.

Both is just my personal impression, as small as this differences might be and as unimportant in a bigger context.

[skandinavian]

food: Italy

women: first Italy....

[SilverKnight]

Sure, both have a good quality of both assets. :thumb001:

Overall, they are much more similar to each other than to many other nations, to put it that way.

However, the small remaining difference results in Italy having a wider variety of, let's say "more sophisticated" foods and the Spanish women might be - on average - somewhat more attractive.

Both is just my personal impression, as small as this differences might be and as unimportant in a bigger context.

Speaking of 'sophisticated" foods, Spain has some pretty good looking fine or bizarre cousins

cw7uD3QRTao

[Lábaru]

I think Spanish food it's very underrated.
If you're a Sea food lover, Spain it's the right choice.

!!!!

http://www.quierounjamon.com/images/20cerdos.jpg

http://www.jamonestrescastro.telemw.com/es/sites/www.jamonestrescastro.telemw.com/files/styles/uc_product_full/public/bandeja%20de%20embutidos%20tres%20castro.JPG

[El Palleter]

absurd, both countries have a great mediterranean food and nice women and we are very similarOn the contrary, we are quite different. This is not meant to be diminishing of Italians. In fact, my best friend is Italian and I have many good friends there. But they know that they are byzantines to me. Just like I am a barbarian to them.

I enjoy Italian food, and yes, I know Italian cuisine beyond pasta and pizza. Roman buiaccari are excellent places to eat. But Spanish cuisine is still more varied and it excels in the quality and freshness of the products.

Wines...well, that's another chapter. No matter their efforts to show me their best red wines, I still don't like Italian red wine. With a few exceptions that are some wines made of the Cannonau stock which, as I found later (as I did suspect), it's the name that they give to the Spanish Garnacha (the French call it Grenache) in Sardinia.

But Italians have better white wines than we do. Although I still have to drink one like the ones from O Rosal or Cambados (Galicia) of the Albariño stock (at 80%, with Treixadura at 15% and Loureiro at 5% in O Rosal), in my opinion the best to go with shellfish. Mind you I've had Portuguese white wines of the same stock, yet they are nothing like the Galician wines.

Catalan cavas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cava_%28Spanish_wine%29) (champagne-like) are a world apart from Italian asti spumanti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asti_Spumante).

As for the other question, it doesn't deserve an answer.

[supergiovane]

I'm waiting for Hussar to point out that italy is closer to France being two bordering nations, because this thread might be inspired by the assumption that Italy and Spain are like twin countries.

[Lábaru]

:lightbul:Spain and Italy are the same, both are brunettes.

[Gratis]

I'll take Italian food and women as a whole over Spain. Although I find Italian cuisine to be overrated as I find it somewhat reliant on pastas which I don't care for.

[Wölfin]

I voted with my stomach on this one. While I appreciate spanish cuisine I by far prefer Italian food.
For the women it is a tossup because while there are gorgeous women in both countries, exceptionally beautiful Italian women have more of an effect on me. On the other hand there are on average more pretty girls in Spain (instead of being polarized like Italy).
In my humble opinion, anyway.

[Lasituacion]

!!!!

http://www.quierounjamon.com/images/20cerdos.jpg

http://www.jamonestrescastro.telemw.com/es/sites/www.jamonestrescastro.telemw.com/files/styles/uc_product_full/public/bandeja%20de%20embutidos%20tres%20castro.JPG

I was thinking about this when i wrote that

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2588/4190738807_1b869f7943.jpg
http://www.cocinarecetas.net/tmp/images/sardinas-a-la-planchajpg.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5243/5304279855_10fbc6b3d1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Crjlj8onp3Y/SKWq32Rrx3I/AAAAAAAAAtg/bfZIxv0c6YU/s400/DSCF0028.JPG

http://www.cocinatipo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/mejillones.jpg

[Mordid]

*Eating Italian food at the moment* *Fart* Sorry. :o

[Amapola]

exceptionally beautiful Italian women have more of an effect on me. On the other hand there are on average more pretty girls in Spain

It's curious. It's not the first time that I hear this. :icon_ask:

[Eldritch]

Anyone who takes this poll/thread seriously officially eats women and fucks food. True story.

[Amapola]

Anyone who takes this poll/thread seriously officially eats women and fucks food. True story.

Absolutely...



.....


However it would still be a interesting comparative opinion thread if only some kind of people were to answer: people having been to Spain and Italy and having stayed long enough to know their gastronomy and people. I don't think that going to a tapas bar (I have done it, terrible!) can give you the slightest idea of what Spanish food is, or people that have brought a plastic paella in Lidl, or people that have been to a pizzeria in NY or the like. Let alone having seen "a couple" of films or... several "threads of Spaniards/Italians are not European". :thumb001:

[Peasant]

!!!!

http://www.quierounjamon.com/images/20cerdos.jpg

http://www.jamonestrescastro.telemw.com/es/sites/www.jamonestrescastro.telemw.com/files/styles/uc_product_full/public/bandeja%20de%20embutidos%20tres%20castro.JPG

Spain has my vote.

[Tony]

Spain is better at tennis but Italy is better in winter sports.
We're also better at aquatic sports and motorsports, at least Formula1 and MotoGP.

I'll take Italian food and women as a whole over Spain. Although I find Italian cuisine to be overrated as I find it somewhat reliant on pastas which I don't care for.
Keep in mind that most of what you eat abroad is a mediocre replica and sometimes a pure fake, for getting real Italian food you've to venture into our countryside, we've got basically tons of everything, not just pasta or pizza, with receips going back to Medieval times so that over the centuries a culture of gastronomy could have grown to almost perfection.


I voted with my stomach on this one. While I appreciate spanish cuisine I by far prefer Italian food.
For the women it is a tossup because while there are gorgeous women in both countries, exceptionally beautiful Italian women have more of an effect on me. On the other hand there are on average more pretty girls in Spain (instead of being polarized like Italy).
In my humble opinion, anyway.
Spain is predominatly Berid and Atlanto-Mediterranean while we have more diversity with, aside Atlanto-Meds, also a lot of Alpinids, Dinarics, Armenoids, East Med and Levantine beauties, thankfully we are in the middle and get every subrace, saved the Baltoid I'd think.

I admit I have a thing for Spaniard women due to both their character and Atlantic phenotype but overall it's a tie with Italian women, while on food I prefer ours.

So Italy beat Spain 2-1 :tongue

[Falkata]

We're also better at aquatic sports and motorsports, at least Formula1 and MotoGP.




The trend is changing in the last years though
:D


2010 Grand Prix Motorcycle racing




MotoGP world Championship

Constructors Champion: Yamaha (Japan)

Riders Champion: Jorge Lorenzo (Spain)



Moto2 world Championship

Constructors Champion: Moriwaki (Japan)

Riders Champion: Toni Elias (Spain)




125cc World Championship

Constructors Champion: Derbi (Spain)

Riders Champion: Marc Marquez (Spain)

[Lábaru]

http://bestofmeanwhilein.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/meanwhile-in-italy-fucking-tourists.jpg

http://d3uwin5q170wpc.cloudfront.net/photo/64823_700b_v1.jpg

;)

[Sikeliot]

Spain and Italy are both wonderful countries, simple as that!

[Raikaswinþs]

they are fairly even, and,along with French, the trilogy of the best culinary tradition in the history of the Western Civilization. I consider 3 countries to form a civilizational continuum ,rather than 3 separate blokes.

That applies to both food and women

[Comte Arnau]

However, the small remaining difference results in Italy having a wider variety of, let's say "more sophisticated" foods

How so? Much as Italian food is great, I wouldn't think of it as more diverse, rather on the contrary.

In fact, there is not even a Spanish cuisine, but several cuisines. I'd say it's just a product of misinformation, as usual.

This said, I concur with Comunero about Iberia, Gallia and Italia being the three gastronomical paradises of the Western Civilization. In fact, just as it happens with the languages, it's a continuum, because you can't break the Alpine cuisine by regions or Catalonia from southern France.

There is something in which Italy and France win hands down, though, and that's the marketing of their products. Iberia has gained some reputation lately, but it's still far as the other two are already solidly placed, so words like 'underrated' are still commonly seen when referred to Iberian meals. It could also be that Iberians have traditionally cared less about presentation than the French or Italians, considering it too snobbish. Even today, when Iberia (Catalonia and the Basquelands mainly) are at the top of high cuisine, most Iberians continue to laugh at it and scorn their own cuisines. Iberians have always been lame at selling themselves to an audience.

[Trog]

For me, Italia always wins, it's the best country in the world for most things. Spain is like the poor man's Italy. Most of our culture and civilisation is a gift to us from Italy. There is no contest. Italians are pioneers, Spanish, just peasants.

[Gaztelu]

Food, Italy.

Women, Spain.

:)

LOL

I see it the opposite.

[Sikeliot]

I think an exceptionally beautiful/handsome Italian can outdo an exceptional looking Spaniard looks-wise, but I'd expect to find more relatively attractive looking people in Spain as a whole.

[1212]

Italian cuisine is authentic shit, but I must admit that their women are prettier. Also I have to admit that the most beautiful women I've ever seen in Europe are bulgarians. My rank in Southern Europe are Italians, Spanish, Greeks and portuguese.

PS:The Italian woman is quite puritanical.

[Neanderthal]

I voted Pedro.
http://rojerthat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/vote-for-pedro.jpg

[Nurzat]

i visited both extensively so i voted italy (not by a large margin)

italian women also look more diverse. in spain, for a far foreigner, people look more alike than in other countries, maybe because of their marginal geographical position in europe that maybe made spaniards less mixed

[Tony]

The trend is changing in the last years though
:D


2010 Grand Prix Motorcycle racing




MotoGP world Championship

Constructors Champion: Yamaha (Japan)

Riders Champion: Jorge Lorenzo (Spain)



Moto2 world Championship

Constructors Champion: Moriwaki (Japan)

Riders Champion: Toni Elias (Spain)




125cc World Championship

Constructors Champion: Derbi (Spain)

Riders Champion: Marc Marquez (Spain)
2010 has been a lucky year and it's true you're making your way but it will take soooo long before you can get us as regarding the numbers of trophies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing_World_champio ns

World Champs bikers by nationality
Nationality MotoGP/500cc 350cc Moto2/250cc 125cc 80cc/50cc Total
Italian 20 8 22 23 2 75
British 17 13 9 4 1 44
Spanish 2 7 14 12 35
American 15 2 17
German 2 7 3 4 16
Australian 7 1 1 1 10


constructor
By country
Country MotoGP/500cc 350cc Moto2/250cc 125cc 80cc/50cc Sidecar/B2A/B2B Total
Japan 37 15 37 23 7 11 130
Italy 22 15 20 33 2 92
Germany 2 1 10 29 42
United Kingdom 3 4 6 13
Spain 4 8 12
Belgium 3 3
United States 2 2
Switzerland 1 1
Austria 1 1
Netherlands 1 1

[El Palleter]

I admit I have a thing for Spaniard women due to both their character and Atlantic phenotypeThat seems to be a trend among Italian men.

It's fortunate though that it's usually only the less educated Spanish women who fall for it.


I consider 3 countries to form a civilizational continuum ,rather than 3 separate blokes.Hay que joderse...

[Tony]

That seems to be a trend among Italian men.

It's fortunate though that it's usually only the less educated Spanish women who fall for it.
Go dream...
Spain is not a third world country like Vietnam or Colombia where poor uneducated girls sell themselves to the rich first worlders.
If a Spaniard woman get engaged with an Italian there will be a reason and it's not that you mentioned...:coffee:

[Blossom]

I'm a woman so I obviously dislike girls. But I need to say, I do prefer italian women than spanish. No hating, not at all. I just think they're more diverse and not that easy to recognize when you're out of the country.

I can recognize spanish women pretty easy out of Spain...while is not that easy to do with italians.

And about food, well, both of them tbh. There are many things I like from spanish gastronomy, like lomo ibérico, tortilla de patata, and their own way to prepare food. I dislike rabo de toro and all those yuck things (at least to me)...the italian, its nice and tasty aswell :) ...and well, who doesnt love a nice traditional mozarella pizza...cmon.

[El Palleter]

Go dream...
Spain is not a third world country like Vietnam or Colombia where poor uneducated girls sell themselves to the rich first worlders.
If a Spaniard woman get engaged with an Italian there will be a reason and it's not that you mentioned...:coffee:It's the profile of most who let themselves be wheedled by the saucy poses of Italian men swearing eternal love at the first chance, to anything that stands on two legs and has boobs (preferably two...or more :P).

[Foxy]

Well I think that Italy has great wines of which I am a great estimateur... Indeed 2 days ago I went to a boucolic party en plain air and after some glasses I found myself in a limbo match with Brazilian music.
Yeah, fucking good wine. :thumbs up

[Lábaru]

Food and women appear to measure which country is the best, interesting.

[Blossom]

Food and women appear to measure which country is the best, interesting.

Well tbh, sounds like some kind of lycanthrope did this poll..:D

[Foxy]

PS:The Italian woman is quite puritanical.

???


Food and women appear to measure which country is the best, interesting.

Indeed I remake this thread in Latin version. Translatin' in romance, which country has:

1)faster cars
2)better football
3)bigger boobs
4)longer dicks
5)best tanning beaches.


Oh, now I recognize it! :thumb001:

[Comte Arnau]

I was thinking about this when i wrote that


The problem is that people worldwide know quite a lot more about Italian food than about real Spanish food, of which they usually know three or four things, probably one or two of them being Mexican. So in a poll like this Italian food is always going to win from the very start.


For me, Italia always wins, it's the best country in the world for most things. Spain is like the poor man's Italy. Most of our culture and civilisation is a gift to us from Italy. There is no contest. Italians are pioneers, Spanish, just peasants.

I don't know what you really mean by peasants, I know you're not precisely an Iberophile, but anyway you may indirectly have a point in something, as I heard this interesting/funny comment from an essayist some weeks ago and you brought it back to my mind. It's about character rather than about food, but it can be applied to it too. More or less it went like this:


Italians are the Mediterraneans par excellence, agile, free and confident in their ways of expression, talk and flirtation.
Iberians, instead, are "stiff/stuffy/rigid/restrained Italians": Eastern Iberians (Catalans) are too afraid to put their foot in it, lose face or feel embarrassed. Central Iberians (Castilians) are too afraid to lose a certain sense of dignity, honour or status. Western Iberians (Portuguese) are too afraid to lose their own sense of moderation, calm or self-imposed distance with regard to events. A mixture of the Mediterranean joy of life with a particular sense of Iberian sobriety that goes deep down in history and which can be seen when comparing Iberian and Italian cuisine, architecture, paintings, music...

[Sikeliot]

Italians are the Mediterraneans par excellence, agile, free and confident in their ways of expression, talk and flirtation.
Iberians, instead, are "stiff/stuffy/rigid/restrained Italians": Eastern Iberians (Catalans) are too afraid to put their foot in it, lose face or feel embarrassed. Central Iberians (Castilians) are too afraid to lose a certain sense of dignity, honour or status. Western Iberians (Portuguese) are too afraid to lose their own sense of moderation, calm or self-imposed distance with regard to events. A mixture of the Mediterranean joy of life with a particular sense of Iberian sobriety that goes deep down in history and which can be seen when comparing Iberian and Italian cuisine, architecture, paintings, music...

The French are that way too.

[Neanderthal]

Dick waving:coffee:
I'll stay neutral, both countries are awesome.

[Comte Arnau]

The French are that way too.

The French are a chapter apart.

[Ibericus]

I like burritos, tacos, nachos, tortitas, etc.

[antonio]

The French are a chapter apart.

Let's be Franc and open: I've had to choose between Spain(inc Catalonia) and Italy I would choose France. :D

[safinator]

Italy in both.

[Comte Arnau]

Let's be Franc and open: I've had to choose between Spain(inc Catalonia) and Italy I would choose France. :D

Lol.

Well, the good thing of Catalonia is that there's something Spanish, French and Italian in us, as we've had very direct contact with the three countries for centuries. That's what's nice of being in the center. ;)

[antonio]

I somewhat hate to say you're right. The bizarre thing I'm living among yours. I'm still thinking on. Too much petit-bourgeoise (in disguise) mentalities, for not to talk about chav ones. :D

Anycase I'm still dreaming on Catalonia 100 years or more before. A lost cause indeed, at least from my strict views.

[AntonyCapolongo]

Spain (in general) for Women, Italy for food.

[Tony]

On our side:
Inventors of Fascism

http://pro.corbis.com/images/VV6764.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BAEA51857-46F6-466F-BC58-CDBB0AC7749C%7D


and Futurism

http://blog.cartaematita.com/temperamente/balla.jpg

[Foxy]

The problem is that people worldwide know quite a lot more about Italian food than about real Spanish food

I am not sure. People of Italy know only pizza and pasta, that are just the point of the iceberg of our real cuisine. They are the cheapest meals here, to go to an Italian and tell him pizza is like to go to an America and tell him hamburger or to a German kraut. Come on! These are some very famouse Italian dishes that we eat often in Italy and that constitue our real diet that are almost unknown out of Italy (I am now posting only dishes from Abruzzo, every region has got a specific cuisine):

OCTOPUS SALAD

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EAK6SwoiqlI/TT8oFdG8QZI/AAAAAAAAAEk/af3hx7neJuM/s1600/insalata_di_polipo.jpg

MARINATED ANCHOVIES

http://www.odealvino.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/alici-marinate.jpg

STUFFED SEPIAS
http://cookingmama.myblog.it/media/01/00/359537175.JPG

ADRIATIC FISH SOUP

http://blog.leiweb.it/cucina/files/2009/03/zuppa_pesce_senza_spine.jpg

ARROSTICINI (ROASTED SHEEP MEAT)

http://www.pesolillo.it/images/arrosticini.jpg

ROASTED LAMB CHOPS

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ag8PBMzch4o/Sns3KuDahYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/GFA6YI1Gv2M/s400/scottadito+025.JPG

SCRIPPELLE (CREPES STUFFED WITH CHICKEN AND CHEESE IN BROTH)

http://turismo.provincia.teramo.it/enogastronomia/la-cucina-teramana/primi-piatti/scrippelle-mbusse/images/scrippelle.jpg

CARDOON BROTH WITH MEAT BALLS

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_76BeQ7a6kAs/SzKBQnqWzfI/AAAAAAAACnw/khKlpDBYz3g/s640/IMG_6193.JPG

That's to name just few dishes only from my region.

[Meerkat.86]

On our side:
Inventors of Fascism

http://pro.corbis.com/images/VV6764.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BAEA51857-46F6-466F-BC58-CDBB0AC7749C%7D

and Futurism

http://blog.cartaematita.com/temperamente/balla.jpg

ehm....it was a poll on women and food, not about Mussolini.

Anyway I don't undestand how the women of a country would be valued in relation to foods!

[Cymel]

Italian cuisine is the best in the world.
While Italian women have usually a hooked nose that I hate. They also shout to much.
Spanish girls are usually prettier.

[El Palleter]

These are some very famouse Italian dishes that we eat often in Italy and that constitue our real diet that are almost unknown out of Italy (I am now posting only dishes from Abruzzo, every region has got a specific cuisine):It's not hard to find similar dishes in both countries. See:


OCTOPUS SALADOften found in Spain, at least in my region. But I still prefer the octopus the Galician style, which emphasises on it being tender. Poupo a feira:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0EFoSdlKQwg/S8OQMY5PS3I/AAAAAAAAAFc/17cKCV-4_TU/s1600/chuches+001.jpg


MARINATED ANCHOVIESAgain, found anywhere in Spain. We call them boquerones (more typical in the Mediterranean Sea, in the SE), while reserving the name anchoas (better quality from the Cantabrian Sea, in the N) to the same fish preserved in brine.
Boquerones:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_K_5FlQSpZOI/S_pDaQT3TcI/AAAAAAAAAdw/eQKZlvhUUEM/s1600/DSC09258.JPG
Anchoas (with red peppers):
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MiIpd0N0E3A/SI4NWPGpjhI/AAAAAAAAA4I/i5Ae0nIkxyY/s400/pimientos%2B%2B.jpg


STUFFED SEPIASWe're more keen on stuffing calamares than sepias. Sepia's thickness makes them good for roasting with garlic and parsley, or even a stew with onion. Here, calamares Tossa del Mar style:
http://images.vinosyrecetas.com/images/recetas/calamares-rellenos-al-estilo-de-tossa-de-mar.jpeg


ADRIATIC FISH SOUPSuquet de peix, from this region. The French also have it, they call it bouillabaise.
Suquet:
http://m1.11870.com/multimedia/imagenes/bar-lo-sancho_pxl_362b043be5e5b6fdd7300f794407e2ea.jpeg


ARROSTICINI (ROASTED SHEEP MEAT)Lamb skewers here are common, and normally go with pieces of onion and green and red pepper in between the meat chunks, and a mushroom in the end.
http://www.recetasdemicroondas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Brochetas-de-cordero-al-microondas.jpg


ROASTED LAMB CHOPSWell those exist everywhere. But, in the tradition of freshness and tenderness, Spaniards are much more keen on cordero lechal (suckling baby lamb) chops.
http://www.cocinarecetas.net/tmp/images/chuletascorderojpg.jpg

In Castile the lamb is unique as it is still raised under the ancient tradition of transhumance, i.e. they are droven from the northern green grass pastures where they fatten in the summer, to the southern dry lands where they feed themselves on all type of aromatic herbs. The result is a lamb with a sublime flavour without needing any condiments.


SCRIPPELLE (CREPES STUFFED WITH CHICKEN AND CHEESE IN BROTH)Like the filloas from Leon, Asturias and Galicia. The fillings are varied, from savoury (sea or land) to sweet.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NYGv45d27oI/TZoOn4WRVmI/AAAAAAAAAXE/meHqIbmmAdU/s1600/IMG_0575.jpg


CARDOON BROTH WITH MEAT BALLSUmh...none that I know of. We cook thistles with other vegetables, and with meats. But not with meatballs that I know of.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/5335526390_dc2f1e252c_o.jpg

;)

[Lasituacion]

Where does this Spanish soup (sopa verde de mariscos) comes exactly?
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/50312_317167200690_9815_n.jpg

My favorite

[Agrippa]

So, in the end, this thread brought us some good things: Many delicious food variations a lot of us might haven't known before ;)

[El Palleter]

Where does this Spanish soup (sopa verde de mariscos) comes exactly?
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/50312_317167200690_9815_n.jpgIt's a green sauce (salsa verde). There are variants in different parts of the world. Spanish salsa verde is used for cooking seafood, most commonly hake and clams. It's Cantabrian, but also Basque.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa_verde
http://www.directoalpaladar.com/curso-de-cocina/como-hacer-salsa-verde

[El Palleter]

Without a hint of doubt, the steer rib-eye or t-bone/porterhouse steak from ploughing-oxen! :)

For Spaniards, having a chuletón (de buey) would be like for Italians having pasta, if ox t-bone steaks weren't so much more expensive.

Of course Italians have the bistecca alla fiorentina, from Tuscany. But just the name bistecca (from beef steak) suggests something not quite local ;)

The article and the video is from the restaurant El Capricho, placed in a few-hundred-year old cellars in small village in Leon, in NW Spain. The video, by the way, was made by an Italian who obviously knew what's best in life! :D

The owner often travels around northern Spain searching for actual traditional ploughing-oxen, and when he finds one he buys it and takes it home. When he slaughters one, he leaves it on maceración (the process to dry and soften) for the right days naturally (the meat they usually sell at butcher's goes through this process with aritificial aid). He then keeps one part for his restaurant and the other part for connoisseurs from all over Spain who have previously reserved it.

Why the sexiest? Well, share one of those over 3kg (usually between 3 and 3.7 kg) steaks with your beloved one, over a couple of fine bottles of Ribera del Duero or Tierras de Castilla y León red wines, and you are ready to resist through the longest night of your life! ;)

nm7MeDbx9Mg

Where's the Best Beef? (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1691115,00.html) (Time magazine, 2007)

Another great food in there is cecina, a dry cured and slightly smoked beef meat.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Cecina.jpg

Again, the Italians have carpaccio di manzo, which is raw slightly cured beef.

[Aviane]

I cant really say much about Spain.

If I have to choose then that would be Italy becuase it said alot of times to be one of the most diverse countries you can get plus this thread should of rather been instead France VS Italy to make a better comparsion.

I hope Spaniards are not getting obssesive on who is more better than who.

[Amapola]

I cant really say much about Spain.
so why voting?


If I have to choose then that would be Italy becuase it said alot of times to be one of the most diverse countries
Say? do you base yourself on sayings? In other words, you have not tried much of any :p

[Comte Arnau]

I am not sure. People of Italy know only pizza and pasta, that are just the point of the iceberg of our real cuisine.

That is why said people worldwide know quite a lot more about Italian food. I'm well aware that people only know a small part of the rich Italian diversity when it comes to food, but even that small part is much more than what they really know about the Iberian.

Also, as Chateaubriand already said, many of the dishes can be found in both peninsulas, and in France too, particularly in the center/south.


this thread should of rather been instead France VS Italy to make a better comparsion.


Lol.

[Amapola]

I am going to give some examples of Southern food: all the food selected from the place my ancestors are from in Eastern Andalusia; simple, not-sophisticated-looking but quite nutritive and tasty.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OOgMDL9uFLo/SPIpJL8ZuOI/AAAAAAAACo8/1wYVur29t8Q/s400/Leche+Frita.JPG
Dessert made of milk. Firm, sweet, cold milk-pudding center encased in a warm and crunchy fried shell of flour and egg.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Tj6n_o6mldM/TPdZSO7K0KI/AAAAAAAAAdw/q-N207S0uWU/s400/berj.JPG
Berenjenas con miel. Aubergines with honey

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RS27opqB5Jw/TRE8ItwH4FI/AAAAAAAAAa0/kY8YpUVA4ag/s1600/Carne+de+membrillo+1.JPG
Carne de membrillo. The membrillo, as the quince is called in Spanish, is cooked into a reddish jelly-like block or firm reddish paste known as dulce de membrillo. It is then eaten in sandwiches and with cheese, traditionally manchego cheese, or accompanying fresh curds. The sweet and floral notes of carne de membrillo (quince meat) contrast nicely with the tanginess of the cheese.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/19277_309526698446_276708388446_3447599_1874309_n. jpg
Migas. Migas are often eaten the morning of the matanza (butchery) and are served with a stew, traditionally eaten right after butchering a pig, a sheep or a goat. The migas are often cooked over an open stove or coals.

http://www.cocinarecetas.net/tmp/images/almejas-a-la-marinerajpg.jpg
Almejas a la marinera. Clams à la marinière

http://www.pepekitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/berza.jpg
Berza malagueña.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SjEUeMhOxJs/SjgrUeoz5KI/AAAAAAAAFWg/0b5qsD3q45o/s400/IMG_0196boquerons.jpg
Boquerones en vinagre. Anchovies in vinegar, you can have them with a meal, or as a snack with a nice wine.

http://slsonline.axspace.com/pannatura/images/stories/gazpacho_vaso.jpg
Gazpacho. It is a cold Spanish tomato-based raw vegetable soup, usually consumed in summer. There is lots of variants.

http://inigoaguirre.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/pulpo-seco-vinagreta-2.jpg
Pulpo seco. This is a secret ;). For those who can read Spanish:http://www.ideal.es/granada/v/20100823/costa/secreto-pulpo-seco-motrileno-20100823.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b13e0h6tAoI/TdBieaMlsCI/AAAAAAAAACg/ptSh0eyNb-Q/s1600/sardina+espeto.jpg
Espetos de sardinas. No words needed.

http://www.fototravel.net/image/3819/F27E39/ESGR-00268-00.jpg
Perdiz Escabechada.Pickled partridge; the "escabeche" is a style of marinade. This meal was already known in the XVI century. An english travelling man, Lord Ross, praised it in 1610:

Camino de Sevilla, en la provincia de Toledo, hay ventas donde se puede comer magníficas perdices rojas escabechada, suculentas codornices, alondras, patos y grullas.

http://www.andaluciaturismodigital.com/imagenes/upload/03112009lomodeorza.jpg
Lomo en orza, also known as "lomo a la orza", potted pork loin.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jUk2AfIavl0/SLRKmXAtKmI/AAAAAAAAA6E/-BSTz-xczSE/s400/Frame_DSC03779.JPG
Pastel de berenjenas. Eggplant pie.

http://www.elgranchef.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/habas_con_jamon_.jpg
Habas con jamón. Beans with ham, usually served with bread.

[Comte Arnau]

^ I'd say that migas, with the exception of the Catalan area and some parts in the North-West, is quite a pan-Iberian dish.

[Amapola]

Yes, and some others I posted... for example el lomo en orza is quite Manchego too.

[El Palleter]

Habas con jamón. Beans with ham, usually served with bread.I'm afraid that that's a Catalan dish ;) faves amb pernil i alls tendres. That's tender beans with cured ham and spring green garlic.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-at4rnDtfV5s/TbGtC7rxOxI/AAAAAAAAA5g/HP-XZMAjmCo/s1600/JMAP-2010-0502-10412_%2528800%2529.jpg


^ I'd say that migas, with the exception of the Catalan area and some parts in the North-West, is quite a pan-Iberian dish.It's Catalan too, in a way. But in Catalonia it's called farinetes, which is made with wheat (or chickpea) flour instead of bread crumbs (migas). In other parts, in western Spain, they use corn flour and I think they're still called migas.

But not many know farinetes today, because older people related it with post-war hardships.

farinetes amb bolets (with wild mushrooms)
http://www.gastroteca.cat/content/imgsxml/galerias/recetas/630/farinetes-amb-bolets-barrejats.jpg

[Amapola]

I'm afraid that that's a Catalan dish ;) faves amb pernil i alls tendres. That's tender beans with cured ham and spring green garlic.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-at4rnDtfV5s/TbGtC7rxOxI/AAAAAAAAA5g/HP-XZMAjmCo/s1600/JMAP-2010-0502-10412_%2528800%2529.jpg

A Catalan dish? :eek:

It's funny as it is one, if not, the most typical meal of Granada. I don't know where it goes back though.

It is usually served with 1 or 2 eggs, the ham is served in slices and generally from Trévelez.

This is the wiki

generalmente frescas y de pequeño tamaño que se guisan en aceite de oliva acompañadas de unas tiras de jamón (en algunas ocasiones se emplea un jamón de Trevélez2 ). Se elabora igualmente con tomate, comino y pimienta.3 Es un plato que se sirve caliente (generalmente acompañado de un plato de huevo: huevo revuelto o una tortilla) y que debe comerse en poco tiempo para que las habitas no queden aceitosas. Esta preparación, aunque tradicionalmente granadina, puede encontrarse en otros lugares de Andalucía.

He buscado, pero no puedo indagar más en su origen pero Gallego Burín en su Granada, guía artística e histórica de la ciudad, ya habla de ellas.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habas_con_jam%C3%B3n

La foto la saqué de ahí.

[El Palleter]

Two sea jewels, one Mediterranean and the other Atlantic,

from the Balearic Islands, caldereta de llagosta (o llamàntol) = Lobster (or claw lobster) stew

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PM1q2zpACVg/SQM8VLDAp4I/AAAAAAAAAOY/bssNxUr_s6A/s400/caldera+008+copia.jpg

and from Galicia, centolla rellena = stuffed spider crab

http://elrincondeyilmo.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/centolla.jpg

Both are a true pleasure for the meat and for dipping bread. I couldn't decide which one is best.

[Dario Argento]

Spain of course. Pasta and pizza are shit compared to tacos and chapulines.

[Amapola]

¿Es posible que lo trajeran catalanes? Hubo una buena ola de catalanes a Granada y Almería en el siglo XVIII (con las industrias textiles; la mayor parte de los nombres burgueses de la época en mi pueblo eran catalanes) y XIX ... de hecho en mi pueblo hay una calle llamada "Calle de los catalanes", yo misma por parte almeriense tengo apellidos catalanes y del levante.

[El Palleter]

A Catalan dish? :eek:

It's funny as it is one, if not, the most typical meal of Granada. I don't know where it goes back though.Also known as faves ofegades (drawn beans): http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faves_ofegades :shrug:

There is no little Catalan influence in Andalucia. Did you know that Seville's Fair festival was initiated by a Catalan? :D

Oh, and Valencian is also spoken in a few villages around Seville. They were originally Valencian farmers settled there to grow oranges.

[Aces High]

Italy - Food

Italy - Women

Spain - Football

[Comte Arnau]

Italy - Food

Italy - Women

Spain - Football

Spain and Italy are playing a "friendly" match in a few minutes, btw. :p

[El Palleter]

The power of Winter in the North..

Fabada asturiana (Asturian bean stew, with chorizo, black pudding and bacon)
http://www.vootar.com/imgs/elementos/1246981670_Fabada%20asturiana.jpg

Fabes con amasueles (Asturian bean stew, with clams)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G30IGssZHa8/TWv9UuHnfhI/AAAAAAAAEQo/-gnIf4shdyc/P2068737+copia.jpg

Cocido montañés (Cantabrian highlands stew)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HzZOmiG6QCE/SX4-QeQ9-YI/AAAAAAAABf8/ep-Qy7OEGhc/s1600/100_1274.jpg

Cocido lebaniego (Cantabrian Liébana valley stew)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GXxJDnmKbUQ/SwUBvO7gsxI/AAAAAAAAABY/bGy9DX8ZSFc/s1600/cocido.jpg

Cocido pasiego (Cantabrian Pas valley stew)
http://musgosu.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/cocidito-pasiego2.jpg?w=500

Cocido maragato (Leonese stew)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZDbfeemR2Xg/TgSLMFHngYI/AAAAAAAAKxI/H_NzMetSMd8/s400/cocido%2Bmaragato.jpg

Olla aranesa (Pyrenean Aran stew)
http://www.guiamaximin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/olla.jpg

Olla podrida (Castilian stew). The name translates as "rotten stew", but the original word was "poderida", which made reference to powerfulness (of the ingredients), and then "e" was dropped to end as "podrida" (rotten).
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KMtlOXtf6pY/SZxNmP8L8ZI/AAAAAAAAA64/RZ6VKo8iUaA/s400/olla+podrida.jpg

Escudella i carn d'olla (Catalan stew, with pasta)
http://bonplat.cat/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/escudella-barrejada.jpg

...

[Comte Arnau]

^ You missed among the stews some recau from Upper Aragon.

But I'll add some yummy ternasco instead, with its delicious potatoes. :icon_hungry:


http://www.alimentosdearagon.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ternasco-aragon.jpg

[Black Sun Dimension]

In the women department, I'd choose Italy.

On food, I'd say it's a tie: I LOVE spanish charcuterie (http://www.orceserranohams.com/pages-shop/charcuterie.htm) but I also love pizza and lasagna.

[esaima]

Italian women are more beautiful, I think. So voted for Italy. Aswell I haven't much heard about Spanish cuisine while Italian one is so wellknown.

[Falkata]

^ I'd say that migas, with the exception of the Catalan area and some parts in the North-West, is quite a pan-Iberian dish.

No migas around here :p. I think is something very typical in Castilla and Andalusia.

[El Palleter]

No migas around here :p.Migas de Carballiño (http://www.enciclopediadegastronomia.es/recetas/platos-de-entrada/recetas-de-guisos/migas-de-carballino.html?hemeroteca=false&pag=2) ;)

[Sikeliot]

It's too bad authentic Spanish food is not more well known in the US.

[El Palleter]

It's too bad authentic Spanish food is not more well known in the US.Well, the Spanish mentality has long been that we create it for our enjoyment. The Italians (and the French to a lesser extent) have more of a commercial target in mind. That's why theirs is usually presented as more sophisticated, while ours remains more rustic.

I don't know about U.S. and Canada Americans. But I've observed that the Brits are not attracted to food for what it tastes but for what it looks like. It's the vision not the olfact and the palate that counts to them. I don't know if this has changed in the last years.

So something that has many mixed colours is going to appeal to the Brits more than anything else. The brighter the colours, the better.

I've seen things there that were unpalatable to me for how they mixed flavours that didn't match, yet colourful and thus popular. I don't mean British food but international food.

[Amapola]

I am thinking that the amount of Italian immigration in the USA might have boosted the popularity of Italian cuisine too, rather than Italy itself. Kind of like Greece (probably it's even more popular than Spanish cuisine in the USA), or like it is happening now with the shitty Kebab-culture, Chinese food etc in Europe. Spaniards have never been very numerous in the USA; we also like to go back home in the end if we can.

[Raikaswinþs]

OK it was about time that I showed up to show off some Burgalese cuisine, very likely in the top 5 of Iberian provincial cuisine.

Olla Podrida (EnglishWiki) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olla_podrida)

La olla podrida es un guiso de la cocina española y conocido desde la cocina medieval. Se consume preferentemente en los meses de invierno o con mal tiempo. Se puede considerar como de la familia de los cocidos.
Actualmente es el plato más representativo de la cocina burgalesa. En especial de Burgos capital y los pueblos de su alrededor.

http://boqueronesenvinagre.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/olla-podrida.jpg


Cojonudos

(toasted bread with quail egg, red hot pepper or "guindillas" and fried chorizo.)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bnOvmDMaQQ0/TDotzNxOv2I/AAAAAAAAEWc/HB17D0dzsoY/s1600/COJONUDOS+MBDP.jpg

Cojonnudas is the same concept, save it has Morcilla de Burgos (haggies-black pudding styled , made of rice,onions,blood and lard,seeimage below)

http://www.tusrecetas.tv/images/stories/jreviews/1539_morcillapinonesespinacaspasas_1274774129.jpg

Tigres

spiced and croqueted mussels cooked on their shell.

http://recetin.socialmood.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/mejillon.jpg

Mussels (Mejillones) have a cult statusin the city of burgos,with many "tabernas" specialized on dozens of ways to prepare them. Some of them rare to find elsewere

Same with Patatas Bravas. Bravas are seen in many places, butnowhere have the cult status than theydo in the city of Burgos. The Burgalese equivalent of "irse de pintxos" or "irse de tapas" is "irse de bravas". There are no less than 20 "bares de bravas" in the Province's capital alone.

http://www.cocinatipo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/patatas-bravas.jpg


Burgos Styled Lentil Stew Lentejas a la Burgalesa.

http://burgospedia1.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/4069640784_dcc5663027.jpg

Crujientes de bacalao y pimiento de piquillo (Cod and pepper crispy croquetes)

http://thecookrocker.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/croquetas-de-bacalao-con-pimiento-de-piquillo.jpg

Queso de Burgos (Burgalese Cheese)

http://burgospedia1.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/queso_burgos.jpg

Cocido de Burgos (Burgalese chickpea hotpot)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VBKPgCqLwuA/S8irN-UblTI/AAAAAAAAB-k/XBdp2MGbGrE/s1600/Garbanzos+al+estilo+de+Burgos.JPG

Cangrejos de Rio a la Burgalesa

"Primos-Hermanos"of the Basque river-crabs

http://www.burgoshoy.es/posted_img_thumbnail.php?pic_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.b urgoshoy.es%2Ffiles%2Fposted_images%2Fuser_41_cang rejos_de_rio_picantes.jpg


Merluza en Salsa Verde (this one is popular all over the Cantabric range)

http://www.javirecetas.com/images/recetas/merluza-en-salsa-verde.jpg

Menestra a la Burgalesa (Burgos styled vegetable stew)

http://fotos.mundorecetas.net/albums/userpics/10546/Menestra_Chefo-.JPG


Sopa Burgalesa (a sub variety of the "Sopa Castellana")

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6qABYblZj_Y/SOeQuQUx3FI/AAAAAAAAAHc/vIpo9jQ9CIA/s400/DSC03661.JPG


Pan y Vino de Burgos

Some say they are among the Iberian finest.

Rivera de Duero, Burgos Wine, English Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribera_del_Duero)


Lechazo and Cochinnillo asado de Burgos (arguably the country's best)

http://www.nextoyou.es/fotos/foto_68_6G.jpg


Patatas a la Importancia


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_23hrrIu-3P8/TCMFQ-ZiOwI/AAAAAAAABTA/DtsnjEGPTJ4/s1600/Patatas+a+la+importancia.JPG



Ok I'm tired for now, I will resume later . Still a few classics to go and haven't even started with the province's desserts

[Sikeliot]

The most well known Spanish dish in the US is probably paella, I have heard it mentioned from time to time.

[Aces High]

Italy - Food

Italy - Women

Spain - Football

Italy - Food

Italy - Women

Italy - Football

Corrected after last night.:D

[Tony]

Italian cuisine is the best in the world.
While Italian women have usually a hooked nose that I hate. They also shout to much.
Spanish girls are usually prettier.
Never been to Spain or known any Spanish girls? as regards the loudness I don't think they would lose to our women...
generally speaking of course.

[Amapola]

Never been to Spain or known any Spanish girls? as regards the loudness I don't think they would lose to our women...
generally speaking of course.

The loudness in southerners is overrated and is underrated in Northeners. I have been living in England and Wales, and I can tell you that there is no big difference in general.

[Foxy]

It's not hard to find similar dishes in both countries. See:



Yes, I am noticing it too. I think that this is becouse when we come to fish our cuisines are from the Roman one that was based mostly on fish and legumes. Btw I have never said that I dislike Spanish cuisine. On the contrary!! Well I know just few things but I like them all.





In Castile the lamb is unique as it is still raised under the ancient tradition of transhumance, i.e. they are droven from the northern green grass pastures where they fatten in the summer, to the southern dry lands where they feed themselves on all type of aromatic herbs. The result is a lamb with a sublime flavour without needing any condiments.
;)

:eek: Identical thing happens here in Abruzzo. We have transumance too, sheephards brings sheeps and lambs from the mountains to the coastal plains every day. :thumb001: That's the secret of the good meat.
Traditional routes made by sheephards during the transhumance are called "tratturi". That's one of them:

http://termoli.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tratturo-2.jpg


That is why said people worldwide know quite a lot more about Italian food. I'm well aware that people only know a small part of the rich Italian diversity when it comes to food, but even that small part is much more than what they really know about the Iberian.

Also, as Chateaubriand already said, many of the dishes can be found in both peninsulas, and in France too, particularly in the center/south.



Lol.

I think that we are both from two very stereotyped countries about which the avarage foreigner knows a fuck.


Spain and Italy are playing a "friendly" match in a few minutes, btw. :p


Italy - Food

Italy - Women

Spain - Football

Indeed they finally played. Now you can change :

Italy: women
Italy: food
Italy: football :D (joking)

Eh! eh! :wink

[Raikaswinþs]

I fucking love Italy and Italians. Full stop. Are there a few million of Italian dickheads? well... yes indeed,they have one as president, and so do we.

If it was up to me, the European Union that I care would be made of Romance Europe exclusively. Iberia,Occitania , Italian peninsula and the romance islanders of the Mediterranean and Near Atlantic . The rest of the french can join too,although they wouldn't have to if they prefer to join the"non-swarthy-european-commonwealth". The NSEC

Greece , Swizterland and Beligium (or Waloonia if the country were to split) would be invited too, although if they wish, they could be just observing or limited members.

Poland and Ireland, just because they are Roman Catholics and old friends (plus enemies of the enemy) would be also offered limited membership. As would Romania-Moldova.

The Romance/Romanic/Romanian Union would have a similar use to the former EEC, an international organisation created with a view to bring about economic integration (including a single market) , and maybe a common defence organization. (Integrated armed forces) . But its constituent states would remain largely as such. (no open-borders , at least until a common policy is set about stopping non-member-states migrants flocking in masses to the union's states)

[Comte Arnau]

Italy - Football

Corrected after last night.:D

Del Bosque has given clear orders of losing friendly matches, so that all teams believe they can easily win Spain in the serious ones too. :p


The loudness in southerners is overrated and is underrated in Northeners. I have been living in England and Wales, and I can tell you that there is no big difference in general.

That's because Britain is West, not North. Go live in Sweden and you'll know there's a group of Iberians/Italians from a three-street distance, I tell you.

[Aces High]

I fucking love Italy and Italians. Full stop. Are there a few million of Italian dickheads? well... yes indeed,they have one as president, and so do we.


Why is Giorgio Napolitano a dickhead.....?

[Eurocentric]

Both.

http://i53.tinypic.com/4jtim9.jpg

:)

[Tony]

Del Bosque has given clear orders of losing friendly matches, so that all teams believe they can easily win Spain in the serious ones too. :p
Yes, you're right, it's a tradition of yours this one, you've also won 3 World Cups less than us but purposely, because you didn't want us to feel inferior.:D


Why is Giorgio Napolitano a dickhead.....?

I think he meant our President of Council/Premier/Prime Minister...
btw also for me Napolitano is a dickhead, he keeps on calling for an austerity program to fix the counts while at the same time his "staff" is been reported to cost as much as 4 times Queen Elizabeth's courts...
beside being a commie...

[Raikaswinþs]

Why is Giorgio Napolitano a dickhead.....?

:D that was a "false-friend" type of error.

In Spain the Prime Minister is called the "President":D

[El Palleter]

If it was up to me, the European Union that I care would be made of Romance Europe exclusively. Iberia,Occitania , Italian peninsula and the romance islanders of the Mediterranean and Near Atlantic . The rest of the french can join too,although they wouldn't have to if they prefer to join the"non-swarthy-european-commonwealth". The NSECBe it war or trade, what would be your plans to prevent (1) the French from stabbing you in the back, and (2) the Italians from surrendering to your enemy or competitor?

Not to mention that the Mediterranean stopped being in the center of world interests in favour of the Atlantic, back in the XVIth century, a few years after Columbus arrived to the Americas.

What makes me think that what would make sense is that Spain should focus on being a gateway between Europe and the Spanish (speaking) Americas, under an EFTA-like treaty with the EU, and able to keep international relations with single EU countries as it would correspond to any country that's sovereign.

[Ibericus]

In Catalonia there is something similar to Pizza, the Coca, (though it can also be sweet) :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Coca_de_tremp%C3%B3.jpg

Coca de verdura (Carcaixent)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Coca_de_verdura_%28Carcaixent%29.jpg

Coca de sucre del Priorat :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Coca_de_sucre_del_Priorat.jpg

[Amapola]

Is it very old?

[Ibericus]

Is it very old?
The Coca de Sant Joan is from at least the end of XIII century, so yes quite old

[Absinthe]

I have unfortunately visited neither, so I voted based on the stereotype that Italian women are the classier and most well-groomed in Europe (and maybe the world) :p

As for the food, I haven't tried anything Spanish except paella. But I am a huge fan of Italian cuisine. :)

[Aces High]

The Coca de Sant Joan is from at least the end of XIII century, so yes quite old

No wonder the Spanish have e-coli outbreaks.

[Comte Arnau]

No wonder the Spanish have e-coli outbreaks.

According to most official sources, Hamburg is not a Spanish town. :coffee:

[El Palleter]

In Catalonia there is something similar to Pizza, the Coca, (though it can also be sweet) :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Coca_de_tremp%C3%B3.jpgIt looks funny..

Valencian coca de tomaca (tomato, red and green peppers, tunna)
http://fotos.subefotos.com/44e26b8f35b6f824cf7798b06bbf6741o.jpg


Coca de verdura (Carcaixent)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Coca_de_verdura_%28Carcaixent%29.jpgThat's Valencian.


Coca de sucre del Priorat :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Coca_de_sucre_del_Priorat.jpg
Valencian coca de llanda (or malfeta, de mida, ...)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Coca_de_llanda_de_Val%C3%A8ncia.jpg

[Logan]

http://www.diet-weight-lose.com/celebrity/celebrity-picture/penelope-cruz-face.jpg
http://www.2flashgames.com/photo/file/penelope_cruz/Penelope_Cruz_0047.jpg
http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Vicky+Cristina+Barcelona+Screening+-w6gVU5DcTIl.jpg

Who needs food?

[Raikaswinþs]

I don't feel even remotely aroused by Pene Cruz.Not even back in the days when she was flashing about her teats in Bigas Luna's flicks

[Edge]

Food goes to Italy but women-wise it's apples and oranges.

[Bridie]

I don't feel even remotely aroused by Pene Cruz.Not even back in the days when she was flashing about her teats in Bigas Luna's flicksFrom what I understand, Spanish men often seem to be less enthusiastic about Penelope Cruz than most other men are. :p I don't know why... not only is she gorgeous, but she seems to have a certain charisma that many actresses lack.

[poiuytrewq0987]

After very long deliberation I have decided to vote for Spain. Spain has far better women (and we have some excellent examples who post here :D). As for food, I'd tip the scales towards Spain since I'm tired of boring pizza, pasta, etc and I'm sure there are more variations like seafood, some kinds of meats but they are a far cry to the diverse Spanish cuisine.

http://thumbs.ifood.tv/files/images/How_to_eat_paella-mixed.jpg

http://www.travelerstipsnpics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hot-blooded-Latins.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

Food is Italy hands down.

[Edge]

http://www.travelerstipsnpics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hot-blooded-Latins.jpg

Intriguing photographic evidence. :p

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/off-topic-talk/177970d1276744620-italian-women-italian_woman_08.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

From what I understand, Spanish men often seem to be less enthusiastic about Penelope Cruz than most other men are. :p I don't know why... not only is she gorgeous, but she seems to have a certain charisma that many actresses lack.

I don't understand either why she's criticized so much in Spain. I guess it's in the Spanish character thinking that when someone has reached a top position is always because of malas artes (dirty tricks). It is true that she's nothing special as an actress, but she's not that bad either. At least, in her European films. In Hollywood, it'll always be different, because a Hispanic has to play Hispanic roles, and that doesn't help much.

As for her being gorgeous, I don't think so. She has a warm attractive gaze, specially when enhanced with makeup and fake lashes, but that's pretty much all. Not that she's ugly at all, it's just that she's not that outstanding, at least by Iberian parameters. Of course then comes the glamour of fame which adds "extra beauty", just like power seems to add "extra beauty" to men for women, but I was trying to speak from a more objective POV. ;)

[El Palleter]

I don't understand either why she's criticized so much in Spain. I guess it's in the Spanish character thinking that when someone has reached a top position is always because of malas artes (dirty tricks).No wonder when the cinema industry in Spain is a sucker for public subsidies for the usual Left puppeteers who have never lifted a finger.

I guess that it's in the character of Catalan independentists and other assorted Left-derived, to outrage when people criticise the flow of public subsidies to the useless.

[Comte Arnau]

Pfff, you're so tiresome with all that typically right-wingie harangue. Yes, whatever you say. I send you an evil Catalan kiss.

[Gaztelu]

No wonder when the cinema industry in Spain is a sucker for public subsidies for the usual Left puppeteers who have never lifted a finger.

I guess that it's in the character of Catalan independentists and other assorted Left-derived, to outrage when people criticise the flow of public subsidies to the useless.

You really enjoy breaking his balls, do you?

[Lauranum]

I like Italian food.

[Raikaswinþs]

From what I understand, Spanish men often seem to be less enthusiastic about Penelope Cruz than most other men are. :p I don't know why... not only is she gorgeous, but she seems to have a certain charisma that many actresses lack.

maybe because Penelope Cruz's looks are everything but uncommon (which isn't necessarily a bad thing,but, you know, makes you wonder what all the fuzz is about) .Also the kind of Spanish girl-roles that she usually performs is one of the most common types of characters within Spanish women. Men who have the same character might find it attractive, but most chilled-out Spaniards find that kind of personality obnoxious , stressing and infuriating in the long term (although most of us fall for it on the first time :P)

You can say that she plays herself all the time.The male equivalent would be the Javier Bardem type (while most Spaniards fallmore into the Antonio Resines /Jorge Sanz /Gabino Diego/Santiago Segura types :D)


Also, many guys in Spain have had a poisonous relationship with that type of chick at some point in their lives. precisely because there are so many of them (maybe one of each 10) so you can say that Pene reminds us of our annoying ex.

[Tony]

Penelope and Monica are my ideal type of woman, my secret dream is to marry both a la Mormon.

ps Fuck Bardem:mad:

[Lábaru]

No wonder when the cinema industry in Spain is a sucker for public subsidies for the usual Left puppeteers who have never lifted a finger.

I guess that it's in the character of Catalan independentists and other assorted Left-derived, to outrage when people criticise the flow of public subsidies to the useless.

Verdades como puños que duelen como mazazos.

[Raikaswinþs]

After very long deliberation I have decided to vote for Spain. Spain has far better women (and we have some excellent examples who post here :D). As for food, I'd tip the scales towards Spain since I'm tired of boring pizza, pasta, etc and I'm sure there are more variations like seafood, some kinds of meats but they are a far cry to the diverse Spanish cuisine.

http://thumbs.ifood.tv/files/images/How_to_eat_paella-mixed.jpg

http://www.travelerstipsnpics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hot-blooded-Latins.jpg

nah, as flattering as your post might be, the truth is that we are pretty much even in both beauty and tasty. Fact.

[El Palleter]

You really enjoy breaking his balls, do you?If you were a Valencian and you had endured decades of his ideological kin pesting you with their propaganda machine (subsidised with millions of euros) that we are like them (from some fictitious catalan countries) and not who we are (Valencian, Spanish), you would understand.

It's not just us though. Aragonese, Aranese and Majorcans too. In fact even many Catalans too are fed up with it.

Notice how many other times before he's used the phrase "the Spanish character" or "the character of Spaniards" with an implied negative connotation, to try to create a deformed character idea through repetitiveness. A sneaky old tactic of Left propagandism.

And notice also that when you slap him back on his face he plays the poor victim. Also an old tactic of Left propagandism.

[Ibericus]

After very long deliberation I have decided to vote for Spain. Spain has far better women (and we have some excellent examples who post here :D). As for food, I'd tip the scales towards Spain since I'm tired of boring pizza, pasta, etc and I'm sure there are more variations like seafood, some kinds of meats but they are a far cry to the diverse Spanish cuisine.

http://thumbs.ifood.tv/files/images/How_to_eat_paella-mixed.jpg

Damn this paella looks so freaking good :thumb001:

[askra]

i have serious difficult to vote for this thread
sardinia was administered for 4 centuries from spain, and now is part of italy,
so here we can eat both spaghetti, pizza and paella, too :p

sardinian paella from the city of alghero:
http://www.gastroteca.cat/content/imgsxml/galerias/recetas/734/pergola-paella.jpg

sardinian empanadas:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_X5oCX5rI_es/S7w7OmX2WxI/AAAAAAAABQk/e6WQeudz23w/s640/IMG_1158.JPG
http://ricette.pourfemme.it/img/panadas.jpg

[El Palleter]

i have serious difficult to vote for this thread
sardinia was administered for 4 centuries from spain, and now is part of italy,
so here we can eat both spaghetti, pizza and paella, too :pSomeone I know was recently in Sardinia and, among the things he brought, there was what in Spain is known as hueva de maruca (ling fish dry salted roe).

http://www.vulka.es/imagenes/empresas_fotos/10663_big.jpg

The generic name of salazones (dry salted fish) is a culinary tradition that's known to have existed since Iberian times, in E and SE Spain, where archaeological remains of factories have been found. A produce that was traded with Romans, Greeks, Punics and Phoenicians.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0gbi3-e5X_g/ThIjgIfcEzI/AAAAAAAACbM/XO3-YY08PD8/s1600/DSCN3412.JPG

I was surprised to see it outside Spain. You have to like fish taste very much to appreciate it. It's served in different ways but most commonly over a toast with olive oil and fresh tomato, or a vinaigrette as this mojama de atún (of tunna meat) in the picture.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fhNIFt5wkT4/TW_WGBeOx7I/AAAAAAAAA1w/YLBn6276Zm4/s1600/Mojama%2Bcon%2Bvinagreta%2B1%2Bblog.jpg

[El Palleter]

This is one I cooked today, chilindrón de cordero, a lamb casserole on a peppers sauce. It's a classic from Navarre, Rioja and Aragon. It took me three hours to cook, but it's always worth the work as it's a celebrated dish.

I used bacon instead of cured ham. Also red (and green) peppers, carrots, tomatos, cayenne pepper (dried, then soaked in hot water for half an hour and the inside meat removed with a teaspoon), black pepper, salt, and white wine. And floured lamb and potatoes. Goes well with chicken instead of lamb.

http://www.hoteleuropapamplona.com/fotos/cd3/cordero-en-chilindron.jpg

[Aviane]

I love Italians and their food, much more than French and mostly others (except Greek) for example.

I decently feel connected to them and their food and flavourings which this goes along with Greek food which I've also tried at resturants.

I still consider Italians as one of my close neighbours even though it may not be the very first and what I like is their quite lively attitude.

Plus for the rich history they have accomplised in my view.

[askra]

Someone I know was recently in Sardinia and, among the things he brought, there was what in Spain is known as hueva de maruca (ling fish dry salted roe).

http://www.vulka.es/imagenes/empresas_fotos/10663_big.jpg


here it's called bottarga and can it's also eaten together pasta
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_K66E0gXn6Mc/SsIHYCskBEI/AAAAAAAABB0/AhrKqDIb0HY/s400/spaghetti_bottarga2.jpg

[P-Chan]

Spanish women

Italian foods

[poiuytrewq0987]

nah, as flattering as your post might be, the truth is that we are pretty much even in both beauty and tasty. Fact.

:D I think Italian women look a lot like our women especially Central/South Italians but with a more peasant-like appearance. North Italian women are nicer but they are too alike to Germans. ;) Spanish women however have a exotic flair in addition to pred. Western Euro appearance and that combo is just :love:.

[Comte Arnau]

If you were a Valencian and you had endured decades of his ideological kin pesting you with their propaganda machine (subsidised with millions of euros) that we are like them (from some fictitious catalan countries) and not who we are (Valencian, Spanish), you would understand.

It's not just us though. Aragonese, Aranese and Majorcans too. In fact even many Catalans too are fed up with it.

Notice how many other times before he's used the phrase "the Spanish character" or "the character of Spaniards" with an implied negative connotation, to try to create a deformed character idea through repetitiveness. A sneaky old tactic of Left propagandism.

And notice also that when you slap him back on his face he plays the poor victim. Also an old tactic of Left propagandism.

I knew it from the start. You had to be a blavero.

[Gaztelu]

If you were a Valencian and you had endured decades of his ideological kin pesting you with their propaganda machine (subsidised with millions of euros) that we are like them (from some fictitious catalan countries) and not who we are (Valencian, Spanish), you would understand.

It's not just us though. Aragonese, Aranese and Majorcans too. In fact even many Catalans too are fed up with it.


I am aware of the feuds within the Catalanosphere, although I have never heard of the Aragonese and Aranese being victims of Catalan imperialism.

:confused:

[Lábaru]

I am aware of the feuds within the Catalanosphere, although I have never heard of the Aragonese and Aranese being victims of Catalan imperialism.

:confused:

Then you need hear more about Spain.

[Gaztelu]

Then you need hear more about Spain.

Perhaps you could enlighten me on the problems that Catalan separatists pose in Aragon and Aran.

[Svipdag]

Italy has better food, BUT, Spain has more passionate women. You could commute. ;)



"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."

[El Palleter]

I am aware of the feuds within the Catalanosphere, although I have never heard of the Aragonese and Aranese being victims of Catalan imperialism.

:confused:It's funny that you speak of a "catalanosphere" when the golden age of the language is actually the Golden Age of the Valencian Language (http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segle_d%27or_valenci%C3%A0). And it is as such –Llengua Valenciana– that's referred to by some of the most significant representants of the age.

It's not "imperialism". It's "collonism". You might have heard in Castilian the words mosca cojonera. It's that fly (or individual(s)) that's constantly revolving around you and getting in your nerves (or in your balls, to put it bluntly).


Perhaps you could enlighten me on the problems that Catalan separatists pose in Aragon and Aran.In Aragon, their interference in la Franja ("the Stripe", western or eastern, depending on if it's Catalans or Aragonese who say it), where they speak Ribagorçan and Matarranyenc, most similar to Valencian, but who are Aragonese.

That's why Jordi's (C. Arnau's) idea of nation is based on language alone.

In the Aran Valley their prepotence is such that the natives, though they speak Aranese, and Castilian and Catalan equally, they prefer to talk to non Aranese (Gascon) speakers in Castilian rather than in Catalan.

It would be unfair to say that this (very slobbish) prepotence is Catalan though. In fact it is Barcelonian. But that's what Catalan independentism is about, Barcelona and the eastern sphere. Mind you even through the early formation of Catalonia, the County of Pallars held tight relations with Castile (and with Aragon during the reign of Alfonso I "The Battler", King of Aragon and Pamplona, Imperator totius Hispaniae) until the time of Jaume I.

[El Palleter]

I knew it from the start. You had to be a blavero.The fact is that I'm not. Not that I see much wrong with blavers though.

However, I understand that that's all that your limited vision of things can see.

http://spb.fotolog.com/photo/11/57/81/antonio_ever11/1210955202_f.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_F3cVBTRubeI/ScqQW0QaZnI/AAAAAAAAAGM/Z_Q3R42CRJw/s400/384741toro%2520osborne%2520dando%2520pol%2520culo% 2520al%2520burro%2520catalan%2520por%2520angelus%2 520azul.gif

[Comte Arnau]

Perhaps you could enlighten me on the problems that Catalan separatists pose in Aragon and Aran.

The only problems come from the Spanish nationalist side, always unwilling to admit that those lands are Catalan by culture and history. Catalan, not Catalonian. As many in the Catalan-speaking strip of Aragon would say: 'I am Aragonese, my language is Catalan.' Apparently some Spanish nationalists can't accept the fact that while Catalan has never been a foreign language in Aragon, Castilian was.


It's funny that you speak of a "catalanosphere" when the golden age of the language is actually the Golden Age of the Valencian Language (http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segle_d%27or_valenci%C3%A0). And it is as such –Llengua Valenciana– that's referred to by some of the most significant representants of the age.

So the so-called Latin American boom of the 20th century means Cien años de soledad, Pedro Páramo or El Aleph don't belong to Spanish literature? I'm sorry for you, but literary studies, libraries and bookshops will disagree with you.

València was definitely the greatest city of the Catalanosphere in the 15th century, and I just feel as proud of calling it the Valencian Golden Age, I don't see what the problem is. And Valencians have always called the language Valencian and so should they keep on doing. So what? Those things don't change the fact that the birth of it was in Catalonia, just like Castilian was born in Castile and English in England.


In Aragon, their interference in la Franja ("the Stripe", western or eastern, depending on if it's Catalans or Aragonese who say it), where they speak Ribagorçan and Matarranyenc, most similar to Valencian, but who are Aragonese.

It's not an interference: Catalan has been spoken in Aragon since the Middle Ages.

And if you think Matarranyenc is a variety of the Aragonese language, you know less than I expected. As for the Ribagorza, it's the transitional area between the Aragonese and Catalan languages, being separated in a gradual way by the Isábena river.


That's why Jordi's (C. Arnau's) idea of nation is based on language alone.

No, genius. I've already said enough times on what I base it on, but apparently you've never had problems in putting words in the mouth of others on your convenience. Quite logical when arguments fail.


In the Aran Valley their prepotence is such that the natives, though they speak Aranese, and Castilian and Catalan equally, they prefer to talk to non Aranese (Gascon) speakers in Castilian rather than in Catalan.

Sure. That's why I've been working two years there, talking either in Catalan or Aranese with the locals.


It would be unfair to say that this (very slobbish) prepotence is Catalan though. In fact it is Barcelonian. But that's what Catalan independentism is about, Barcelona and the eastern sphere. Mind you even through the early formation of Catalonia, the County of Pallars held tight relations with Castile (and with Aragon during the reign of Alfonso I "The Battler", King of Aragon and Pamplona, Imperator totius Hispaniae) until the time of Jaume I.

Lol. And what has that to do with all this? :confused:


The fact is that I'm not. Not that I see much wrong with blavers though.

You're obviously one, your constantly attacking anything Catalan just for the sake of it is far from obvious. At least now it makes some sense. Funny that you still deny it, though.


http://spb.fotolog.com/photo/11/57/81/antonio_ever11/1210955202_f.jpg

Let me tell you that when you show those things you're behaving like pathetic children. Few are the Catalans saying that Valencia is Catalonia. Being Catalan does not mean being Catalonian. Actually the very term "Països Catalans" means that they're different countries, not the same one. But of course, it's useful for blaverism to lie about it, so that Catalonians seem imperialist and blah blah blah. When funnily enough you don't care at all being 'imperialised' by Madrid.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_F3cVBTRubeI/ScqQW0QaZnI/AAAAAAAAAGM/Z_Q3R42CRJw/s400/384741toro%2520osborne%2520dando%2520pol%2520culo% 2520al%2520burro%2520catalan%2520por%2520angelus%2 520azul.gif

Really, childish behaviour. Typical "macho" insecurity... En fin. :rolleyes2:

[Hess]

Catalans=Moors?

[Comte Arnau]

Catalans=Moors?

Stand up. Looks like blood's not really reaching up there.

[Hess]

Stand up. Looks like blood's not really reaching up there.

Looks like someone is lacking Sarcasm detectors :rolleyes2:

[billErobreren]

Food, Italy really no competition

Women, Spain on average but Italian girls have better faces

[El Palleter]

The only problems come from the Spanish nationalist side, always unwilling to admit that those lands are Catalan by culture and history.They are, by culture and history, distinctive and of their own.


Catalan, not Catalonian.Or Catalanese or whatever other wordy you invent next.


As many in the Catalan-speaking strip of Aragon would say: 'I am Aragonese, my language is Catalan.'I'm Jamaican, my language is English; I'm Honduran, my language is Spanish; and so on.

It tells all that's needed to know about your concept of what constitutes a nation.


Apparently some Spanish nationalists can't accept the fact that while Catalan has never been a foreign language in Aragon, Castilian was.The comment is plain stupid.

An actual relevant comment is that the adscription of the Glosas Emilianenses, written between the Xth and XIth centuries, was first thought to have been old Castilian, however now thought by many to be Navarre-Aragonese...

Which it should go without saying that it points to an extremely similarity between the Navarre-Aragonese language and the Castilian language...

And that should tell anyone with enough common sense that all your attempts to construct a east-west differentiation in Spain where Castile would be West and Navarre and Aragon East, are merely based on a political motivation and badly constructed lies.


So the so-called Latin American boom of the 20th century means Cien años de soledad, Pedro Páramo or El Aleph don't belong to Spanish literature? I'm sorry for you, but literary studies, libraries and bookshops will disagree with you.What they don't belong to is to some would-be fictitious "Spanish Countries", like your fictitious "Catalan Countries".


València was definitely the greatest city of the Catalanosphere in the 15th century, and I just feel as proud of calling it the Valencian Golden Age, I don't see what the problem is.I understand that any Spaniard, even if not being Valencian, would say that he's proud of it, as a Spaniard.

But you are not Valencian and you don't consider yourself Spanish. So your relation with us Valencians is nil, and at best just casual.


And Valencians have always called the language Valencian and so should they keep on doing. So what?Your partners in political thought have been for ages attempted to deny us to call our Valencian language for its name, Valencian.

Your comment is a mere and futile attempt at public relations on the internet. The reality is –and always has been– different.


Those things don't change the fact that the birth of it was in Catalonia, just like Castilian was born in Castile and English in England.The formation of languages, rather than their "birth", are a rather complex thing. Didn't you study Philology? If so, your political fanaticism has clearly erased any trace of philological rigour in your brains.

The problem, however, is not with language but with your insistance of attaching to it a totalitarian political significance.

Valencians are Valencians and as such we are of a distinctive identity to Catalans and not a "Catalan country". Our closest kin are not Catalan-speaking people from Barcelona, but other Valencians from the traditionally Castilian-speaking areas of Valencia.


It's not an interference: Catalan has been spoken in Aragon since the Middle Ages.That stripe where it's spoken is a frontier area between Western Catalonia and Eastern Aragon. But, as with Valencians, they are Aragonese and their closest kin are other Aragonese, be them Castilian- or Aragonese-speaking.

They don't belong to any "Catalan countries" either. Although L'Alta Ribagorça is a part held by Catalonia.


And if you think Matarranyenc is a variety of the Aragonese language, you know less than I expected.I don't think that you got that idea from anything that I said. Since I didn't say nor did I suggest anything of the kind.


No, genius. I've already said enough times on what I base it on, but apparently you've never had problems in putting words in the mouth of others on your convenience. Quite logical when arguments fail.Yes, you've made it clear enough times that you base it on the Catalan language and then you expand its influence, according to that, to your "Catalan countries" of interest.


Sure. That's why I've been working two years there, talking either in Catalan or Aranese with the locals.Really? I have a house there. I've had it for many long years.

Or did you think that I was just figuring things out?


Lol. And what has that to do with all this? :confused:Background historical information that adds up to current political information.

Why would you have a problem with me supplying information on the subject?


You're obviously one, your constantly attacking anything Catalan just for the sake of it is far from obvious."Anything Catalan", in your imagination, means you and your politically constructed ideas.

Fortunately Catalan identity is something altogether different from the twisted and degraded ideas that the likes of you subscribe.


At least now it makes some sense. Funny that you still deny it, though.If I were one I wouldn't see a reason to deny it.

And, in fact, I don't mind if you believe that I'm one of them. Like I said, I don't see much wrong with it. Even if I'm not one.


Let me tell you that when you show those things you're behaving like pathetic children.In your mind children may be pathetic. But that only tells how sick you are.



Few are the Catalans saying that Valencia is Catalonia. Being Catalan does not mean being Catalonian.Again, not true. Only in the last years you've adopted a different approach, changing the old slogans to new ones that you believe that might be less rejectable by people over here.

Call it whatever. But anyone will guess that it's just deceiving.


Actually the very term "Països Catalans" means that they're different countries, not the same one.Now that's the biggest lie you've said so far.

What it means is that, in your deluded mind, each of those territories are Catalan. The term país means territory more than it means country.


But of course, it's useful for blaverism to lie about it, so that Catalonians seem imperialist and blah blah blah.Funnily enough I don't have a problem with the name of País Valencià to refer to my region, the Old Kingdom of Valencia –except for its pretended usage as a term meaning separatism.

That alone makes me a more than unlikely candidate to be a Blaver.

Having said that, Blavers don't lie when they protest of Catalan annexionist attempts. It's a fact.


When funnily enough you don't care at all being 'imperialised' by Madrid.That's a false idea that surged from equating Madrid to Paris. Something that, to anyone who knows the hugely difference of conformations between Spain and France, is ridiculous.

All your pretended arguments are ridiculous. Though sometimes they are plain idiotic:

Really, childish behaviour. Typical "macho" insecurity... En fin. :rolleyes2:

[CelticTemplar]

*coff* ... Portuguese women... *coff*

[Comte Arnau]

They are, by culture and history, distinctive and of their own.

Sure. Once you cross the Sénia, it's a completely different world. :rolleyes2:


Or Catalanese or whatever other wordy you invent next.

Both Catalan and Catalonian are words that exist. Don't use your misinformation as a weapon for the sake of the thread.


I'm Jamaican, my language is English; I'm Honduran, my language is Spanish; and so on.

It tells all that's needed to know about your concept of what constitutes a nation.

No. Just what is needed to explain your stupid extrapolation of New World postcolonial contexts to traditional European history. It may be useful for your cheap demagogy, but you just can't sell that to any minimally sharp mind.


The comment is plain stupid.

An actual relevant comment is that the adscription of the Glosas Emilianenses, written between the Xth and XIth centuries, was first thought to have been old Castilian, however now thought by many to be Navarre-Aragonese...

Which it should go without saying that it points to an extremely similarity between the Navarre-Aragonese language and the Castilian language...

Lol. You never learn...

The Glosas were considered Spanish simply because Asturian and Aragonese were regarded as Spanish dialects. Yet it was obvious to experts from the very beginning that they couldn't be Old Castilian, both because of language traits and history.

Extreme similarity? Maybe to the lay. To any Romanist they can't but be classified as Aragonese. Obviously in the Low Navarrese/Riojan variety, closer to Castilian if only by geographical terms, of course.

It'd be better if you would not deepen in this issue for the sake of your credibility.


And that should tell anyone with enough common sense that all your attempts to construct a east-west differentiation in Spain where Castile would be West and Navarre and Aragon East, are merely based on a political motivation and badly constructed lies.

That differentiation clearly exists for any unbiased expert. That is not to say the cut is neat, it is neither between Iberia and southern Gallia, or between Gallia and northern Italy, etc. Every neighbour lands are a continuum and the Ebro basin also worked often as a corridor, specially after the Basque retreat and the Castilian expansion. But as typologists for the Romance languages show, there is a clear gap between the so-called Ibero-Romance languages (those from the Kingdom of Leon) and the ones east of the Basques.


What they don't belong to is to some would-be fictitious "Spanish Countries", like your fictitious "Catalan Countries".

Lol. So one can talk about the Hispanidad/Spanish-speaking world, one can talk about the Anglosphere, one can talk about the Francophonie... but it is fictitious and an outrage when one talks about the Catalan Countries. My, some phobias are bigger than I expected.


I understand that any Spaniard, even if not being Valencian, would say that he's proud of it, as a Spaniard.

But you are not Valencian and you don't consider yourself Spanish. So your relation with us Valencians is nil, and at best just casual.

I am an Iberian, who probably knows and loves Iberia a thousand times more than all those Spanish nationalists who've never left their town and can only speak Spanish. One doesn't have to be a Spanish nationalist to be a Hispanist. What's more, one of my reasons for political independence is my real Iberianism, but that's a different issue.

And I am a Catalan, a member of the same ethnic group to which traditional coastal Valencians proudly belong to, with many of whom I relate on an daily basis. Of course my relation with Valencians is huge, regardless of whatever bullshit blaveros have to say about it.


Your partners in political thought have been for ages attempted to deny us to call our Valencian language for its name, Valencian.

First, better don't talk about who my political partners are, as I'm not a member of any party. Independentist thoughts are not property of any party. And secondly, you're simply lying, as the overwhelming majority have always defended the fact that Valencians call it Valencian. What just can't be accepted is saying that they are different languages, which is what blaverism has always tried to do via the naming demagogy, as even blaveros are perfectly aware of their own lies.


Valencians are Valencians and as such we are of a distinctive identity to Catalans and not a "Catalan country". Our closest kin are not Catalan-speaking people from Barcelona, but other Valencians from the traditionally Castilian-speaking areas of Valencia.

Really, denying such obvious facts only makes your point seem more and more stupid. And I say this from the bottom of my heart, not as a reproach. First because historically and linguistically it is more than evident that Western Catalonia is responsible for the main ethnic impact in most of Valencia, as any serious sources attest. Secondly because the duality of Valencia has traditionally been with the Aragonese, not with the Castilians, as the surnames and language substrata in the comarcas churras show. Only the westernmost area, the Requena & Utiel area, is really considered traditionally Castilian, having belonged to Castile until the 19th century.


That stripe where it's spoken is a frontier area between Western Catalonia and Eastern Aragon. But, as with Valencians, they are Aragonese and their closest kin are other Aragonese, be them Castilian- or Aragonese-speaking.

I'm sorry, but your belief that administrative divisions are a sort of abrupt natural borders can't be taken seriously. Really, try to be objective for a second: do you sincerely believe that Catalan speakers from a town 10km from Lleida are closer to those from Calatayud than to those from Lleida, with whom they not only have historically related, but also relate nowadays daily, where they go to buy, study, etc...? If so, all I can say is, be happy with your own delusions.


They don't belong to any "Catalan countries" either. Although L'Alta Ribagorça is a part held by Catalonia.

They are part of the Catalanosphere. Not everybody who talks about the Catalan Countries wants to make them be politically united, as you try to put it. Just like not all Germans want to be politically united with Austria and Switzerland, but that doesn't prevent them from knowing they are culturally and historically related.


Really? I have a house there. I've had it for many long years.

Good for you. So what? I'm convinced that you're the first one who makes them speak in Spanish to you.


"Anything Catalan", in your imagination, means you and your politically constructed ideas.

Fortunately Catalan identity is something altogether different from the twisted and degraded ideas that the likes of you subscribe.

Yeah, I'm convinced it is way closer to what a biased blavero has to say about it. :rolleyes:


If I were one I wouldn't see a reason to deny it.

And, in fact, I don't mind if you believe that I'm one of them. Like I said, I don't see much wrong with it. Even if I'm not one.

In every sentence you say, and in your speech as a whole, you just confirm it.


Again, not true. Only in the last years you've adopted a different approach, changing the old slogans to new ones that you believe that might be less rejectable by people over here.

If you knew better about it, you'd knew that that way of thought was not born in Catalonia, but in Valencia itself. But I imagine this is of no interest for your purposes.


Now that's the biggest lie you've said so far.

What it means is that, in your deluded mind, each of those territories are Catalan. The term país means territory more than it means country.

Oh, and sure they are. Not completely in the case of Valencia, true, but sure they are Catalan. Again, Catalan, not Catalonian. If you are unable to see the difference, I just can't help it. I know you're perfectly able, though, you're just pretending you don't.

And as I said, only to Valencians in Valencia Catalonians are 'imperialists', because Spanish nationalism there has made some good demagogical work in this regard. The sad reality is that most everyday Catalonians just don't give a fuck about Valencia, and many even consider it a waste of time trying to see if Valencians still feel proud for their traditional identity. Catalonians who never go to Valencia think it is just full of Spanish nationalist chavs.


Funnily enough I don't have a problem with the name of País Valencià to refer to my region, the Old Kingdom of Valencia –except for its pretended usage as a term meaning separatism.

Malament. You should say Comunidad Valenciana, in clear Spanish, or you might be burnt in the next Fallas.


That's a false idea that surged from equating Madrid to Paris. Something that, to anyone who knows the hugely difference of conformations between Spain and France, is ridiculous.

Lol. Because Valencia is not Madrid's beach, is it? What I find really sad is that the divide-et-impera goes so far as to not see the real importance of such a priority as a good communication between Barcelona and Valencia, since it is in the Mediterranean Arch where the real economic engine of the Peninsula is.


All your pretended arguments are ridiculous. Though sometimes they are plain idiotic:

Yours are at such a high level that you need to illustrate them with those intelligent pictures of bulls and donkeys, for us mortals to make sense of them. As if a recent donkey figure represented Catalonia more than the traditional wyvern, the one that the Catalan Peter IV, King of Aragon and Valencia, had on his helmet, with which both the fire dragons of Catalonian festivals and the Valencian bat are related.

[Raikaswinþs]

I wonder why Jordi and Chateubriand bother to do all that jipper-japper in Shakespearian, even tho the only person reading and having fun with their Dornish quarrels here is probably just me, and maybe some of the other Spaniards.

I admire your Mediterranean passion guys and also your caballerosidad ;P

[Lábaru]

Yo lo veo más como una persona diciendo cosas razonables y un independentista catalán con la cabeza lavada, nada nuevo :)

[Comte Arnau]

I wonder why Jordi and Chateubriand bother to do all that jipper-japper in Shakespearian,

I'd do it in Ausiasmarchian, but my Valencian might be more fluid than his. :cool:

[Raikaswinþs]

Yo lo veo más como una persona diciendo cosas razonables y un independentista catalán con la cabeza lavada, nada nuevo :)

pues a mí me gusta discutir con Jordi . Y probablemente estoy de acuerdo con Chateaubriand en más de lo que estoy de acuerdo con él.

Al menos los dos argumentan, las punzadas son parte del entretenimiento del foro,pero macho, si decir "cosas razonables" significa para tí decir "cosas con las que estoy de acuerdo" apaga y vámonos...dónde queda el debate?y para que existe un foro sino es para debatir?

A mi Count no me parece que tenga el cerebro lobotomizado, solo porque parta de una posición ideológica más "fuerte" que la mía. Y creo que tu posición ideolóígica es al menos tan fuerte como la suya, sino más.

[Lábaru]

Como siempre un perfecto centrista comunero, deberías quitarle el puesto a Rubalcaba :P

[Raikaswinþs]

Como siempre un perfecto centrista comunero, deberías quitarle el puesto a Rubalcaba :P

Centristas no hay fuera de Madrid, que para eso esta en el centro. Yo soy periférico. Tan periférico soy que me he salido del borde 2000km hacia el norte :P


Bromas a parte,políticamente hablando, no tengo nada de centrista, sino de racionalista.Y el racionalismo en la política Ibérica esta tan ausente del mal llamado centro, como lo está del PPSOE, de los partidos nazionanistas y en general, de toda la vida poltica patria, donde lo que tiran son las pasiones futboleras. Cuando te encuentras a alguién que sabe y está dispuesto a argumentar, date con un canto en los dientes. Chateau y Count saben, pero el hecho de que yo sepa reconocerlo no significa que me encuentre ideológicamente en "medio" de ellos.

Teniéndo en cuenta que soy más cercano al pensamiento de Antonio Trevijano o Jorge Vestrynge en cuanto a política Espanola contemporanea, creo que la ultima etiqueta que me pondria un politologo seria centrista.



originally posted by Chateubriand I'm Jamaican, I speak English

Having lived with, worked alongside, and befriended several Jamaican nationals through my life, I feel that I know enough to tell you that the language they speak is an apple that has fallen much farther from the English tree than Valencian has from Catalan. Much like Ghiskari isn't exactly High Valyrian


FuiRMTJt4dE

Bukaya!Buyaka! 45matikk xD

[Piparskeggr]

Gotta be Italy, that's where my maternal great grandmothers were born. ;)

[bticker]

Italy has better food, BUT, Spain has more passionate women. You could commute. ;)



"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."

Well the thing with passion is that the Spanish people kind of inherit it. They are passion through and through because they feel passionate about life and living and being. They simply celebrate every single day. That is what makes them so fascinating and special compared to all the people around the world. They seem to have a tranquil way of living but they live it with fire.

On the contrary the Italians simply have a passion and a predilection for food. They know all about it because they brought us everything we love to eat. In a great variety and in never ending resources. And connected to food... just think about the wine delivered (http://www.serenatawines.com/wine-gifts/Wine_delivered) to our countries by the fabulous Italian wine makers. There is not a meal I would not love and enjoy to drink Italian red wine with.

So for me the Spanish people get passion and passionate living and the Italian people get delicious food and a fundamental change in wine history.

[Peyrol]

Indeed, our food is better.

I don't know about womans...both are indeed very hot.

[Peyrol]

I'll take Italian food and women as a whole over Spain. Although I find Italian cuisine to be overrated as I find it somewhat reliant on pastas which I don't care for.

Do you really believe that the shit that in Canada (but also in US) is presented as "italian food" it's really italian food? :laugh:

[tlockf]

A typical Catalan dish, we have all the time, breakfast or dinner. Although now of course people diverge into dishes from other cultures, this has mainly been a peasant dish, but still loved by all. I think it falls into that category of rusticness everyone was talking about before.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs140.snc1/5968_1239875316414_1215232634_30740951_7818810_n.j pg

[Queen B]

Italy for both

[Amapola]

A typical Catalan dish, we have all the time, breakfast or dinner. Although now of course people diverge into dishes from other cultures, this has mainly been a peasant dish, but still loved by all. I think it falls into that category of rusticness everyone was talking about before.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs140.snc1/5968_1239875316414_1215232634_30740951_7818810_n.j pg

Pls don't torture me now that I am not allowed to eat "embutidos". :cry2

[Foxy]

A typical Catalan dish, we have all the time, breakfast or dinner. Although now of course people diverge into dishes from other cultures, this has mainly been a peasant dish, but still loved by all. I think it falls into that category of rusticness everyone was talking about before.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs140.snc1/5968_1239875316414_1215232634_30740951_7818810_n.j pg

Its Italian counterpart :thumb001: Tagliere di salumi e formaggi

http://www.negozidiroma.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/salumi-e-formaggi-tipici_740x492.jpg

http://it.groupalia.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/1/01_6_5.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

Marzipan with nuts and chocolate. Yum yum yum, Bones Festes!!!! :)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dbQAREGf0po/TSRTKX2b4cI/AAAAAAAAGMU/iX5ADozl2N4/s1600/massap%25C3%25A0+de+nous+2.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dbQAREGf0po/TSRSxh4bFqI/AAAAAAAAGMQ/KyqmGIPjzCc/s1600/massap%25C3%25A0+de+nous+4.JPG

[Incal]

Food: Italy

Women: Italy

[Foxy]

Marzipan with nuts and chocolate. Yum yum yum, Bones Festes!!!! :)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dbQAREGf0po/TSRTKX2b4cI/AAAAAAAAGMU/iX5ADozl2N4/s1600/massap%25C3%25A0+de+nous+2.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dbQAREGf0po/TSRSxh4bFqI/AAAAAAAAGMQ/KyqmGIPjzCc/s1600/massap%25C3%25A0+de+nous+4.JPG

Its Italian counterpart (this is from Abruzzo actually). Parrozzo, marzipan and nuts covered with chocolate. :D Italian cuisine has an edge!

http://www.ilpasticcione.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/parrozzo.gif

I was forgotting this (panettone):

http://www.lucianopignataro.it/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/panettone.jpg

This (pandoro)

http://www.dolci.it/sites/dolci.it/files/2011/pandoro_0.jpg

And this (torrone bianco)

http://www.odealvino.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Torrone.jpg

But the best remains this (pandoro stuffed with Nutella and cream)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6fAy6tgZJxw/TtsefdLKDsI/AAAAAAAAAYU/YAr1NQ-gP7Q/s1600/pandoro.jpg

:love:

[gold_fenix]

We have the same raw material but different elaborations, Italy is not only paste and pizza, Spain is not only paella and Gazpacho

[Comte Arnau]

We have the same raw material but different elaborations, Italy is not only paste and pizza, Spain is not only paella and Gazpacho

Actually, they're quite local, only widespread now because of tourists. I find stews (cocidos, ollas podridas, pucheros, escudelles, marmitakos...) and the unique potato omelette to be more of a pan-Iberian dish.

[Tchek]

Italy for both women and food by far. It's no contest first round KO really.

But I'd prefer going to spain than italy though. Barcelona seems a cooler, more fun loving city than any italian cities.

[dukeofsouls]

I think both but italy has it a little bit better :thumb001:

[Libertas]

Spain for women and Italy for food

[Adrian]

Food - Italy
Woman - both

[Sarcofago]

food -France

women - The U.K.

spain and italy are so too trendy

[Occident]

Well, the Spanish mentality has long been that we create it for our enjoyment. The Italians (and the French to a lesser extent) have more of a commercial target in mind. That's why theirs is usually presented as more sophisticated, while ours remains more rustic.

I don't know about U.S. and Canada Americans. But I've observed that the Brits are not attracted to food for what it tastes but for what it looks like. It's the vision not the olfact and the palate that counts to them. I don't know if this has changed in the last years.

So something that has many mixed colours is going to appeal to the Brits more than anything else. The brighter the colours, the better.

I've seen things there that were unpalatable to me for how they mixed flavours that didn't match, yet colourful and thus popular. I don't mean British food but international food.

British traditional food is very rustic and straightforward, in a manner stylistically reminiscient of Spanish food. I am thinking of the stews and blood sausage. This, along with the general cultural insecurity towards our own food, is probably why British people expect something arty from foreign food. We are a country that has compared ourselves to the French for the past 500 years, so foreign has to mean fancy and over the top; 'British' means straightforward and hearty. In reality France, Spain, and Italy all have hearty straightforward food like we do, but thats not what people in Britain are taught to expect from foreignors.

[Foxy]

:D I think Italian women look a lot like our women especially Central/South Italians but with a more peasant-like appearance.

Do I look Albanian? And peasant?? I don't think that Italians look like peasants, on the contrary most have a natural charme in their manners (not all like in any country but surely our level is high). I think that only the French have a similar charme (we call the French "our cousins beyond the Alps" indeed).

[Guapo]

Do I look Albanian? And peasant?? I don't think that Italians look like peasants, on the contrary most have a natural charme in their manners (not all like in any country but surely our level is high). I think that only the French have a similar charme (we call the French "our cousins beyond the Alps" indeed).

Albanian? "our cousins beyond the Alps"?

[Foxy]

Albanian? "our cousins beyond the Alps"?

Nooo, we Italians call the French "our cousins beyond the Alps".

[Guapo]

Nooo, we Italians call the French "our cousins beyond the Alps".

Why? French aren't like Italians, nobody is like Italians. And you dont look Albanian, you're too hot.

[Falkata]

We call the French "the bastards beyond the Alps"

[Foxy]

Why? French aren't like Italians, nobody is like Italians. And you dont look Albanian, you're too hot.

Because culturally French and Italians are very similar.
I agree partially with Dushan, I am from the Adriatic side of Italy and we have various Albanians. Some look like us (I'd like to know if there's a dinaric continuum), some look slavic and some look too dinaric.
Thank you Guapo for the compliment, you hottie! ;)

[Foxy]

We call the French "the bastards beyond the Alps"

Apparently Charles De Gaulle called Italians "cousins" when he visited England and said "cousins of Italy, wake up!"; during the monarchy, the French kings gave the title of "cousin" to various Italian nobles; plus the many cultural exchanges between the two countries created this slogan.
If you listen an Italian TV news, to don't repeat always "French", sometime journalists say instead "our transalpine cousins".

[Drawing-slim]

Thank you Guapo for the compliment, ;)I just read your previews post talking about how charming elegant etc italians girls are...
but the way you take this compliment "on the pretext that you're too hot to be compared to albo girls"..
Its almost cheaper then the lame dude who gave the "compliment"

[Guapo]

I just read your previews post talking about how charming elegant etc italians girls are...
but the way you take this compliment "on the pretext that you're too hot to be compared to albo girls"..
Its almost cheaper then the lame dude who gave the "compliment"

You still frustrated lame loser?

[MandM]

i vote Italy

[Drawing-slim]

You still frustrated lame loser?You're pathetic. So is veleda

[Guapo]

You're pathetic. So is veleda

Why veleda? I thought you had a sense of humor.

[Kanuni]

Do I look Albanian? And peasant?? I don't think that Italians look like peasants, on the contrary most have a natural charme in their manners (not all like in any country but surely our level is high). I think that only the French have a similar charme (we call the French "our cousins beyond the Alps" indeed).

Firstly Dusan is not Albanian anyway he is already banned.

As far as you go i think you look some kind of Iranian so no you don't look Albanian.

[Guapo]

As far as you go i think you look some kind of Iranian so no you don't look Albanian.

She's pretty and a female, relax.

[Kanuni]

She's pretty and a female, relax.

I am relaxed no worries.Jut made a note.;)

[Drawing-slim]

Why veleda? I thought you had a sense of humor.

I do have far greater sense of humor then you ever will.
As far veleda, its sad that dusan plaid the lamest cheapest game in the book to make her feel insecure, and she felt for it. Trying to prove herself to a fakir on the expense of other women, regardless albanians serbians greek etc

(No wonder i seem frustrated, watching lame souls gettin way with cheap shit, and here im gettin no action:D)
I got nothing against her, but i have every reason to be mad:mad::D

[Peyrol]

This discussion is about Veleda personality or about a Italian-spanish comparison...?

[Mordid]

This discussion is about Veleda personality or about a Italian-spanish comparison...?

Italy je simply Nordic

[safinator]

Veleda je Hot

[Mordid]

Veleda je Hot
She should check with doctor Mordid.

[Comte Arnau]

YUM YUM YUM !! :D :hungry: :thumb001:


http://oi40.tinypic.com/34gkn6u.jpg

http://oi43.tinypic.com/9u0k7l.jpg


Competition? Why excluding one? :(

[Prince Carlo]

I cannot choose. :P

Both Spain and Italy are great countries.

[Foxy]

I just read your previews post talking about how charming elegant etc italians girls are...
but the way you take this compliment "on the pretext that you're too hot to be compared to albo girls"..
Its almost cheaper then the lame dude who gave the "compliment"

:confused: Ok, you have written a soap opera in your mind. No, I asked if I look Albanian just to know if what Dusan wrote can have some fundament. Where have I said that I think I am too hot to be compared with Albanians? I consider some Albanian guys to be very cute, so relax! :wink

What I contested is that Italian girls have a peasant look. I just don't think so.

[Guapo]

:confused: Ok, you have written a soap opera in your mind. No, I asked if I look Albanian just to know if what Dusan wrote can have some fundament. Where have I said that I think I am too hot to be compared with Albanians? I consider some Albanian guys to be very cute, so relax! :wink

What I contested is that Italian girls have a peasant look. I just don't think so.

Just ignore him, he is sad and lonely :(

[Drawing-slim]

:confused: Ok, you have written a soap opera in your mind..:D

[MM81]

Better food: Italy
Better women: Spain

[Gaztelu]

I think I have posted here before, although in my opinion, Spain has the better food, whereas Italy has the better women. :)

[dralos]

food:italy
women:spain bcs they're more social and less highminded in my opinion

[Richard]

Italy has the best food in the whole universe,i cant believe people are still arguing bout that.Women?I left my heart in north east Europe.:D

[Damião de Góis]

I voted Italy, but food had a big weight on my decision.

[Libertas]

I think I have posted here before, although in my opinion, Spain has the better food, whereas Italy has the better women. :)

It's definitely the OPPOSITE.

[Gaztelu]

It's definitely the OPPOSITE.

Eh, we all have a fascination to things that are foreign to us.

[Comte Arnau]

Italian food is better known worldwide. That's why more people will vote for Italian food, no need to be a genius. :D

[Damião de Góis]

Italian food is better known worldwide. That's why more people will vote for Italian food, no need to be a genius. :D

Not only that but it's genuinely good :p
It's known for a reason.

[Comte Arnau]

Not only that but it's genuinely good :p
It's known for a reason.

I'm not saying it isn't, I love Italian food!

I'm only saying that the 'fight' for the best food is biased from the beginning, because Spanish food isn't well-known worldwide. Europeans think it's all ham, paella, tapas and sangria, while for Americans Spanish food means Mexican food.

[Amapola]

I'm not saying it isn't, I love Italian food!

I'm only saying that the 'fight' for the best food is biased from the beginning, because Spanish food isn't well-known worldwide. Europeans think it's all ham, paella, tapas and sangria, while for Americans Spanish food means Mexican food.

Do you think they are similar, though?

[Comte Arnau]

Do you think they are similar, though?

In many things, yes. (I'm thinking now of the whole of Iberia, not just Spain)

Not only dishes from the Mediterranean coast, many of which are almost pan-Med, but also much of inland ones. Others seem to have a parallel in southern France too.

There are also many differences, of course. Italy lacks an Atlantic façade, and Iberia doesn't have the variety of pasta types used in Italy, for instance.

[Foxy]

In many things, yes. (I'm thinking now of the whole of Iberia, not just Spain)

Not only dishes from the Mediterranean coast, many of which are almost pan-Med, but also much of inland ones. Others seem to have a parallel in southern France too.

There are also many differences, of course. Italy lacks an Atlantic façade, and Iberia doesn't have the variety of pasta types used in Italy, for instance.

Actually in Italy we have also Alpine dishes that Spain lacks, derived from the German/Suisse cuisine, like goulash (Trentino-Friuli)

http://cdn.taste.com.au/images/recipes/sfi/2009/08/22875.jpg

founduta valdostana (fondue of cheeses), Valle D'Aosta, Piedmont

http://www.donnamoderna.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/ricette-importate/primo/minestra-e-zuppa/fonduta-valdostana/piatto-pronto-fonduta-pane-casseruola-ingredienti/46348961-1-ita-IT/piatto-pronto-fonduta-pane-casseruola-ingredienti_dettaglio_ricette_slider_grande3.jpg

frico (Friuli)

http://www.hotelagrifoglio.com/images/cultura/frico2.jpg

mush with stewed (Veneto, Trentino, Friuli, Lombardy)

http://www.contradalaflora.it/e107_images/newspost_images/spezzatino.jpg

strudel (Trentino-Veneto-Friuli)

http://www.agriturbook.com/public/Image/trentino/immagini%20ricettario/strudel.jpg

canederli (Trentino-South Tyrol)

http://www.gastronomia-online.com/files/2008/12/canederli.jpg

black bread (Lombardy)

http://cookingmama.myblog.it/media/00/00/1979074338.JPG

and many others...

I think the Spanish users here are not very well informed about Italian cuisine. We don't have only pasta and pizza. Also on the Appennine we have many typical dishes and in the North they have a very large variety of risotti and cheeses.

[Foxy]

In many things, yes. (I'm thinking now of the whole of Iberia, not just Spain)

Not only dishes from the Mediterranean coast, many of which are almost pan-Med, but also much of inland ones. Others seem to have a parallel in southern France too.

There are also many differences, of course. Italy lacks an Atlantic façade, and Iberia doesn't have the variety of pasta types used in Italy, for instance.

About atlantic dishes, I have never eard before of any "Atlantic cuisine" but just for info, most of the fish that you find in Italy today is imported from the Atlantic.

[Falkata]

About atlantic dishes, I have never eard before of any "Atlantic cuisine" but just for info, most of the fish that you find in Italy today is imported from the Atlantic.

There are some differences with the mediterranean diet. Atlantic diet lacks pasta or fried stuff (most of dishes are boiled or grilled so olive oil is not so important), it includes a lot of fish and seafood, white wine rather than red one, meat comes basically from cow and pork (lamb is absent)...

Some studies mention it

http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/05/19/ajcn.2009.29075.abstract

[Iloko]

Italy has the better food, culture, language, and history.

Spain probably has the hotter women overall, but the lighter skinned Italianas can match or exceed them.

For better looking men though, I'd say it's tied. Architecture-wise it's a tie as well imo.

[Ctwentysevenj]

I like the food and women from both countries. A bit off the the topic, the Italians build a better plane over the Spanish, in the highly competitive light/medium military transport division

Italian:Alenia C-27j Spartan
Spanish: EADS C-295

[Scandalf]

I'm not saying it isn't, I love Italian food!

I'm only saying that the 'fight' for the best food is biased from the beginning, because Spanish food isn't well-known worldwide. Europeans think it's all ham, paella, tapas and sangria, while for Americans Spanish food means Mexican food.
Some (I hope!) Americans might think you serve tacos. But I think most people know the most famous Iberian dishes. I've only been to Portugal and I liked the food there (and the wine, even vino verde). I think it might be a tie, both on women and food.

[Ulla]

YUM YUM YUM !! :D :hungry: :thumb001:


http://oi40.tinypic.com/34gkn6u.jpg

http://oi43.tinypic.com/9u0k7l.jpg


Competition? Why excluding one? :(


What a silly competition, good for non-Euros. :)

Probably, Italian cuisine and Italian women phenotypes can be more various than Spanish counterpart but much in common especially in cuisine. In Italy you can find also some Spanish dishes like Paella, Crema Catalana (more common in Italy than Creme brulée)... Calamares a la romana means Roman-style calamari (squid)?

I remember last time I went to Spain in a traditional Catalan restaurant in Barcelona I feel perfectly at home.

[Comte Arnau]

What a silly competition, good for non-Euros. :)

My thoughts exactly. :)


Probably, Italian cuisine and Italian women phenotypes can be more various than Spanish counterpart but much in common especially in cuisine.

I haven't quantified that and I doubt there are statistics about the topic. If it's about pasta, no doubt Italian cuisine is more varied. But there's a lot of local food all over Iberia that people just don't know about. And Iberia is a large peninsula.


In Italy you can find also some Spanish dishes like Paella,

Paella is not a "Spanish dish", in the sense that all Spaniards will tell you that the place to eat it is in Valencia. It has become associated with Spain because the eastern coast is a popular destination for tourists, but paellas (parola catalana che sarebbe padella in italiano) were mostly reserved for meetings of friends or relatives on special occasions. A bit like with sangria.


Crema Catalana (more common in Italy than Creme brulée)...

Really? I didn't know that. :)


Calamares a la romana means Roman-style calamari (squid)?

Yes. I don't know why that name, are they particularly common in Rome? Fried squids can be found all over the Mediterranean, I'd say. In Spain, Madridians are famous for eating them in baguettes. :D


I remember last time I went to Spain in a traditional Catalan restaurant in Barcelona I feel perfectly at home.

I guess, our traditional cuisine is very Med, except in the mountains. And many elements are common to the south of France and parts of Italy. In general the only thing I miss when I'm away from Catalonia is something as simple as having my bread rubbed with a tomato. :)

[Immortal Technique]

Italy for several reasons

[special]

food: Italy

women: East Europe

[Insuperable]

Food: Italy
Women: Probably a tie

[Borna]

Both superbly inferior to Swedish people who are most advanced, richest, most beautiful and smartest on this world, with most beautiful females.

[Bobby Martnen]

Italy

Tacos are good, but lasagna is better.

[Cristiano viejo]

Italy

Tacos are good, but lasagna is better.

USA does not compete, sorry.