Genetic analysis of male Hungarian Conquerors: European and Asian paternal lineages of the conquerin

[Dick]

goes into a lot of detail. They think the I2a-Din N found in the conquerors expanded from south east poland based off the Strs.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0

[PaleoEuropean]

goes into a lot of detail. They think the I2a-Din N found in the conquerors expanded from south east poland based off the Strs.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0

I think the first known I2a1b I-l161 came from Poland actually, remember reading it a few years back.

[PaleoEuropean]

Awesome article, they usually never dive this deep.

[PaleoEuropean]

The largest groups were N,G, I and R1a the rest were small minorities.

[PaleoEuropean]

Karos-Eperjesszög II, graves 16 (KEII/16) and 52 (KEII/52); Karos-Eperjesszög III, grave 11 (KEIII/11): I2a1-L621, CTS10228
The three samples were identical on those loci which were included in the network. One sample was different from the two others on DYS518, but that locus was not included in the network. Regardless of this single step distance, we can consider the three males close relatives. As the matrilineal lineages (mtDNA X2f) of the individuals from grave 52 in Karos II and grave 11 in Karos III are also identical (Neparáczki et al. 2018), they can be considered full siblings, and the grave goods discovered suggest that this genetic lineage belongs to the chief of the Karos-Eperjesszög settlements. The haplotype of the individual from grave 12 in Karos III (Neparáczki et al. 2017) is likewise identical to that of the 3 individuals we examined here, and 11 and was therefore also part of the chief’s family. The I2a1-L621 sample from grave 17 in Karos III (Neparáczki et al. 2017), however, was not a close genetic relative, because it differed on several markers.

[Dick]

I think the first known I2a1b I-l161 came from Poland actually, remember reading it a few years back.

They must of picked it up from somewhere in east Europe whilst they traveled west, they must've been chieftains or something if they joined them. They obviously weren't ethnic Magyars

[Dick]

The largest groups were N,G, I and R1a the rest were small minorities.

The one R1b is interesting


R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103) among the peoples of the Idel-Ural

and the G


Although the other two analyzed Hungarian Conqueror males (from Karos I grave 3 and Rakamaz grave 7) were not related, they both belonged to the G2a1-L293 subgroup, which is characteristic of the Ossetians from the Northern Caucasus.

[PaleoEuropean]

The one R1b is interesting



and the G

Seems like they were an epic patchwork of people, I wonder what their common interests were.

[Crimson Winds]

Seems like they were an epic patchwork of people, I wonder what their common interests were.

having a tough relation with Khazars.

[Dick]

Seems like they were an epic patchwork of people, I wonder what their common interests were.

https://pics.me.me/money-cash-hoes-43371492.png


Just another "Hell's Angels" gang on horseback like others from the Steppe

[bained]

"The Karos samples’ STR data are 1 genetic distance on 17 loci in the Balkans to a Bulgarian from Montana and 2 mutation steps to a Bulgarian from Sofia, a Bulgarian from Plovdiv, and a Tuscan Albanian"
Imagine how the slavs gonna spin this one out.

[Dick]

"The Karos samples’ STR data are 1 genetic distance on 17 loci in the Balkans to a Bulgarian from Montana and 2 mutation steps to a Bulgarian from Sofia, a Bulgarian from Plovdiv, and a Tuscan Albanian"
Imagine how the slavs gonna spin this one out.

We should ask Dr Bosniensis

[War Chef]

My haplogroup G2a1 was probably when Magyars conquered the Kahazars absorbed them. Khazars had a bunch of north-Caucasian mercenaries.

[Chris596]

Amazing article (I read most of it). So basically, the origins of the ancient Hungarians still remain a mistery. But we know the migration route of the ancient hungarians, collectively, and also what other languages influenced the Hungarian language, by getting in contact with different tribes and nations.

In spite of this, can someone explain in a nutshell what is the conclusion of this whole analysis? I'm really just a beginner and I know very little about haplogroup compositions, haplotypes or genetic distances between groups of individuals.

[Luke35]

Amazing article (I read most of it). So basically, the origins of the ancient Hungarians still remain a mistery. But we know the migration route of the ancient hungarians, collectively, and also what other languages influenced the Hungarian language, by getting in contact with different tribes and nations.

In spite of this, can someone explain in a nutshell what is the conclusion of this whole analysis? I'm really just a beginner and I know very little about haplogroup compositions, haplotypes or genetic distances between groups of individuals.

I can't, beyond saying it was a complicated and fascinating ethnogenesis :)

I do wonder what you Y haplogroup is, does your paternal side come from Alfold region or Transylvania?

I am actually haplogroup N, but I had my clade tested by YSEQ and I am a rare Slavo-Baltic type, found mostly in southern Poland, and also in Hungarians in NE Hungary. It's not the same branch as the conquerors in the article had.

[bained]

94580 This is reconstruction of the leader guy,52:

[Kökény]

I do wonder what you Y haplogroup is, does your paternal side come from Alfold region or Transylvania?

I spoke with him, his paternal side is the Szekely one. His father is from the same county as my parents. Quite close to us.

[Chris596]

I can't, beyond saying it was a complicated and fascinating ethnogenesis :)

I do wonder what you Y haplogroup is, does your paternal side come from Alfold region or Transylvania?

I am actually haplogroup N, but I had my clade tested by YSEQ and I am a rare Slavo-Baltic type, found mostly in southern Poland, and also in Hungarians in NE Hungary. It's not the same branch as the conquerors in the article had.

I'm still waiting to do a DNA test :) But it's coming for sure. And Kökény is right, my paternal side comes from Transylvania and my maternal side comes from the Alföld. But I'm unable to tell you anything other than this right now. But let's discuss my haplogroup composition later in the future, in another thread :)

[Chris596]

I can't, beyond saying it was a complicated and fascinating ethnogenesis :)

I do wonder what you Y haplogroup is, does your paternal side come from Alfold region or Transylvania?

I am actually haplogroup N, but I had my clade tested by YSEQ and I am a rare Slavo-Baltic type, found mostly in southern Poland, and also in Hungarians in NE Hungary. It's not the same branch as the conquerors in the article had.

I'm still waiting to do a DNA test :) But it's coming for sure. And Kökény is right, my paternal side comes from Transylvania and my maternal side comes from the Alföld. But I'm unable to tell you anything other than this right now. But let's discuss my haplogroup composition later in the future, in another thread :)

[Luke35]

I'm still waiting to do a DNA test :) But it's coming for sure. And Kökény is right, my paternal side comes from Transylvania and my maternal side comes from the Alföld. But I'm unable to tell you anything other than this right now. But let's discuss my haplogroup composition later in the future, in another thread :)

I look forward to it. You may already know that 23andMe gives you your basic haplogroup. That's how I got mine. After that I took it a step further by testing with YSEQ to get my deeper subclade.

[Kökény]

Yeah I also think 23&me is a good choice. I will send my sample back to them tomorrow. I can't wait for the results.

[bained]

"The group’s demographic expansion may have begun in Southeast Poland around that time, as carriers of the oldest subgroup are found there today. The group cannot solely be tied to the Slavs, because the proto-Slavic period was later, around 300–500 CE. " Oh no no no, the more I read, the better it gets.

[Luke35]

Yeah I also think 23&me is a good choice. I will send my sample back to them tomorrow. I can't wait for the results.

Cool, look forward to it. I expect your 2 biggest components will be Balkan and Eastern European, either split evenly or leaning to Balkan. We shall see.

[War Chef]

I2a culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przeworsk_culture

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

goes into a lot of detail. They think the I2a-Din N found in the conquerors expanded from south east poland based off the Strs.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0

Yeah and we know which Slav tribe comes from southeast Poland.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

We are your daddies

https://enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/80/Poland_under_Boleslaw_Chrobry.jpg

[Bosniensis]

People mixed a lot even those "Slavs" have enslaved many foreign people in Eastern/Central Europe.

[bained]

I see slav fanboys forgot their glasses today, so I will copy-paste once more: The group cannot solely be tied to the Slavs, because the proto-Slavic period was later, around 300–500 CE

[vbnetkhio]

"The group’s demographic expansion may have begun in Southeast Poland around that time, as carriers of the oldest subgroup are found there today. The group cannot solely be tied to the Slavs, because the proto-Slavic period was later, around 300–500 CE. " Oh no no no, the more I read, the better it gets.

which group?

[bained]

which group?

CTS10228

[bained]

https://media.springernature.com/original/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1007%2Fs12520-019-00996-0/MediaObjects/12520_2019_996_Fig7_HTML.png

[Dick]

Yeah and we know which Slav tribe comes from southeast Poland.

I2 dinaric North is more common in Romanians, Bulgarians.

[vbnetkhio]

CTS10228

lol, that's the Slavicest of the Slavic haplogroups

[Dick]

I see slav fanboys forgot their glasses today, so I will copy-paste once more: The group cannot solely be tied to the Slavs, because the proto-Slavic period was later, around 300–500 CE

Who said they were Slavs? You are seeing something that’s not even there

Edit; vbnetkio just did

[War Chef]

These guys spread I2a:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przeworsk_culture

& if you want to take it back a little earlier, them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomeranian_culture

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I2 dinaric North is more common in Romanians, Bulgarians.

Most of north Croats are dinaric north and I don't remember Bulgarians and Romanians coming out of southeast Poland lol.

[Dick]

Most of north Croats are dinaric north and I don't remember Bulgarians and Romanians coming out of southeast Poland lol.

Seyas father is I-S17250

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Karos-Eperjesszög II, graves 16 (KEII/16) and 52 (KEII/52); Karos-Eperjesszög III, grave 11 (KEIII/11): I2a1-L621, CTS10228
The three samples were identical on those loci which were included in the network. One sample was different from the two others on DYS518, but that locus was not included in the network. Regardless of this single step distance, we can consider the three males close relatives. As the matrilineal lineages (mtDNA X2f) of the individuals from grave 52 in Karos II and grave 11 in Karos III are also identical (Neparáczki et al. 2018), they can be considered full siblings, and the grave goods discovered suggest that this genetic lineage belongs to the chief of the Karos-Eperjesszög settlements. The haplotype of the individual from grave 12 in Karos III (Neparáczki et al. 2017) is likewise identical to that of the 3 individuals we examined here, and 11 and was therefore also part of the chief’s family. The I2a1-L621 sample from grave 17 in Karos III (Neparáczki et al. 2017), however, was not a close genetic relative, because it differed on several markers.

Most elite grave is zero chink lmao. I get it in K13 ancient run and I wondered which modern pops it's cloese too. It looks half Kavkaz half Slav

Target: K2_52_vengr_lider
Distance: 3.9960% / 3.99600707
35.8 Lezgin
33.0 Latvian
26.8 Abhkasian
3.2 Dai
1.2 Yoruban

Distance to: K2_52_vengr_lider
19.00158678 Chechen
19.12873754 Yagnobi
19.43496077 Tabassaran
19.67869152 Lezgin
20.14293921 Kumyk
20.28540362 Turk_Kardzhali-Alevi
20.29871178 Turk_Sliven-Alevi
20.65012833 Kabardin
22.19247846 Nogay
22.84926038 Turk_Kardzhali-West
22.94958170 Balkar
23.00178471 Bulgarian_Ruse
23.20300196 Adygei
23.28234739 Turk_Drama
23.57375023 Bulgarian_Burgas
23.60676174 Turk_Kardzhali-Mountaineer
23.89777186 North_Ossetian
24.22732342 Pomak_Komotini
24.64125200 Turk_Edirne
24.67244212 Turk_Kardzhali-South-Plain
24.91431115 Pomak_Kavala
25.07564356 Turk_Komotini
25.18597626 Pomak_Drama
25.51740778 Turk_Razgrad
25.54471570 Bulgarian_Eastern-Rhodopes

CLEAR OUTPUT
MAX OUTPUT NUMBER:
25
ADD GRADIENT - YES
GRADIENT FROM:
0
GRADIENT TO:
30
RUN ALL

Chechen masterrace xD

[bained]

Most elite grave is zero chink lmao. I get it in K13 ancient run and I wondered which modern pops it's cloese too. It looks half Kavkaz half Slav

Target: K2_52_vengr_lider
Distance: 3.9960% / 3.99600707
35.8 Lezgin
33.0 Latvian
26.8 Abhkasian
3.2 Dai
1.2 Yoruban

Distance to: K2_52_vengr_lider
19.00158678 Chechen
19.12873754 Yagnobi
19.43496077 Tabassaran
19.67869152 Lezgin
20.14293921 Kumyk
20.28540362 Turk_Kardzhali-Alevi
20.29871178 Turk_Sliven-Alevi
20.65012833 Kabardin
22.19247846 Nogay
22.84926038 Turk_Kardzhali-West
22.94958170 Balkar
23.00178471 Bulgarian_Ruse
23.20300196 Adygei
23.28234739 Turk_Drama
23.57375023 Bulgarian_Burgas
23.60676174 Turk_Kardzhali-Mountaineer
23.89777186 North_Ossetian
24.22732342 Pomak_Komotini
24.64125200 Turk_Edirne
24.67244212 Turk_Kardzhali-South-Plain
24.91431115 Pomak_Kavala
25.07564356 Turk_Komotini
25.18597626 Pomak_Drama
25.51740778 Turk_Razgrad
25.54471570 Bulgarian_Eastern-Rhodopes

CLEAR OUTPUT
MAX OUTPUT NUMBER:
25
ADD GRADIENT - YES
GRADIENT FROM:
0
GRADIENT TO:
30
RUN ALL

Chechen masterrace xD

Which fits Bulgar migration pattern from Armenian sources.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Which fits Bulgar migration pattern from Armenian sources.

Pretty interesting mate. Tho it doesn't look Turanic at all. What's your view of Bulgar origins?

[Matty74]

goes into a lot of detail. They think the I2a-Din N found in the conquerors expanded from south east poland based off the Strs.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0

Interesting read. Thanks Dick

[vbnetkhio]

Most elite grave is zero chink lmao. I get it in K13 ancient run and I wondered which modern pops it's cloese too. It looks half Kavkaz half Slav

Target: K2_52_vengr_lider


where could this sample be from? it was posted on eupedia as an ancient sample. but the Hungarian conqueror study tested only y-dna, not autosomal.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

where could this sample be from? it was posted on eupedia as an ancient sample. but the Hungarian conqueror study tested only y-dna, not autosomal.

Idk man, I get it in K13 ancient on Vahaduo. Shouldn't it be I2-din guy?

[bained]

Autosomal was tested, but I don't think it was released. Usually the russian genetic forums are pretty good at obtaining samples and judging by the name vengr (hangarian in russian) it was from there.

[Dick]

The I2a din north from the Magyar leader is 1 genetic distance from 3 Bulgarians and a Tosk Albanian from the Ftdna project on Str values.

[PAGANE]

Does anyone know what the type of funeral is? Pagan or Christian?

[bained]

Does anyone know what the type of funeral is? Pagan or Christian?

It is one of the most famous and rich Magyar burial, there are tons of photos on facebook and GOOGLE. From the study, in supplementary files: "Archaeological findings: horse cranium (and leg bones), gold hairrings, pair of silver wire bracelets, golden ring with green glasss tone, boot mounts, arabic dirhems, gilded silver impressed belt-buckles, silver-plated sabre tache, flint, iron knife, gilded-silver mounted saber, snaffle, bridle ornaments, horse breast collar mounts, bone mouth of leather bottle, mounted bow case ornaments, remnants of quiver with rosette mounts, arrow heads, bone plates of the bow grip and horns, girth buckle, stirrups, remnants of ornamented saddle."

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205920#sec019