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Serbat14
01-17-2020, 07:56 PM
So from what I know most Lebanese Maronites tend to not consider themselves as Arabs but rather as Phoenicians who got Arabinized. Now I've also read that there was an Arab tribe who came from Yemen called as 'Ghassanids', this Arab tribe migrated from the Arabian peninsula to the Levant and settled there a lot before the Arab Muslims conquests in 700's, the Ghassanids were also Christians.

Now for the questions for Maronites:

1.how do you know that you don't have Arab Ghassanid ancestry in your DNA? (Since Maronites possibly intermarriage with them)

2.why do many Maronites have Arabic surnames?

Can you explain it to me please? Thanks.

Serbat14
01-17-2020, 10:48 PM
Bump

Serbat14
01-18-2020, 11:26 AM
Bump

Aileron
01-18-2020, 11:37 AM
History of the region is fascinating to me, lots of different religion sects and nationalities...

Serbat14
01-18-2020, 02:58 PM
Bump

Pulsa Dinura
01-21-2020, 10:41 AM
So from what I know most Lebanese Maronites tend to not consider themselves as Arabs but rather as Phoenicians who got Arabinized.

What is the criterion to be called an Arab?

Is it religion?
Is it race?
Is it language?
Is it geography?
Is it culture?



1.how do you know that you don't have Arab Ghassanid ancestry in your DNA? (Since Maronites possibly intermarriage with them)
So being an Arab is about race?


2.why do many Maronites have Arabic surnames?
You could also ask why do many Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews have "Arabic" surnames.

Hajimurad
01-21-2020, 11:58 AM
Although some of Maronite families trace their ancestry to Banu Ghassan tribe, majority of Maronites aren't Arabs by descent. They came to Lebanon from inland Syria (Orontes river valley) along with Banu Tanukh Arabs (ancestors of Druzes) in Fatimid times (IX-X c). Before Arabization Maronites spoke Western - Aramaic language. Matti Moosa suggested Maronite church as spin-off on Syriac Jacobite church.

Serbat14
01-21-2020, 12:13 PM
What is the criterion to be called an Arab?

Is it religion?
Is it race?
Is it language?
Is it geography?
Is it culture?



So being an Arab is about race?


You could also ask why do many Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews have "Arabic" surnames.

Someone Arab is someone who have Arabian blood in him.

Adamm
01-21-2020, 12:17 PM
Someone Arab is someone who have Arabian blood in him.

What is Arabian blood? Define that.

Hajimurad
01-21-2020, 12:21 PM
Someone Arab is someone who have Arabian blood in him.

If Arab is someone with Arab blood then only Bedouins and some sedentary families scattered across MENA region are Arabs. All others are Arabized Syriacs, Persians, Copts, Berbers, Nubians etc.

Serbat14
01-21-2020, 12:29 PM
What is Arabian blood? Define that.
What you didn't understand in my answer? If someone have ethnic Arabian ancestry from the Arabian Peninsula then he is Arab, that's what makes someone an Arab (it least that's what I think).

Serbat14
01-21-2020, 12:32 PM
If Arab is someone with Arab blood then only Bedouins and some sedentary families scattered across MENA region are Arabs. All others are Arabized Syriacs, Persians, Copts, Berbers, Nubians etc.

Yes that's probably true.
So from what I understand Levanite Christians and North Africans are Arabinized by culture

Pulsa Dinura
01-21-2020, 12:54 PM
If someone have ethnic Arabian ancestry from the Arabian Peninsula then he is Arab, that's what makes someone an Arab (it least that's what I think).
The region stretching from the Arabian Sea to the Atlantic Ocean is identified as the "Arab World" even though there are different races.


So from what I understand Levanite Christians and North Africans are Arabinized by cultureIf it is by culture, then what do Levantine Christians and North Africans have in common with Somalis, Sudanese, Comorians, Saudis, Mauritanians, Djiboutis, Libyans, Moroccans, Yemenis, Bahreinis…to name few?

Arsen_
01-21-2020, 01:55 PM
I wonder what is the difference between Arabs and Bedouins? Are they same people or not? Is it right to say that Arabs are sedentary people and Bedouins are nomads? I heard that Bedouins in Israel perceived as more loyal people than Arabs.

Hajimurad
01-21-2020, 02:02 PM
I wonder what is the difference between Arabs and Bedouins? Are they same people or not? Is it right to say that Arabs are sedentary people and Bedouins are nomads? I heard that Bedouins in Israel perceived as more loyal people than Arabs.

Bedouins are pure unmixed Arabs with tribal structure (but in Africa they are mixed with nomadic Berbers, Bejas, Zaghawas and Fulanis). Simple Arab is an Arabic-speaking city-dweller or sedentary farmer (often of mixed origin).

Abdelnour
01-21-2020, 02:33 PM
1. Last name. Association is based on your father's ethnicity/Race.

2. Probably because we speak Arabic?

Also, Maronites in general do not have Arabian blood. Based on GEDmatches, it seems like the Orthodox Christians have the highest Red Sea.

Also, in the distant past, the Levant was more Arabian as it is now, so it is kind of a mute point.

Lastly, Northern Levantines are of great distance of Arabians/Bedouins in G25. I plot with many different European groups before BedouinB.

Yorgo
01-21-2020, 03:27 PM
Arabization was imposed by force on Middle Eastern Christians, so a Christian 'Mansour' from the Levant and a Muslim 'Mansour' from North Africa or Arabia don't actually share the same lineages.

Still, many Levantine Christian surnames are plain and simple Aramaic: Haddad, Semaan, Shamoun

Some of Greek origin: Kyriacos, Constantin

And of course Biblical ones, arabized or not: Elias, Boutros (Peter), Boulos (Paul), Hanna (John), Gebrael etc

And of course the most common Levantine Christian surname, Khoury, which literally means Priest.

Generally speaking it's very easy to tell if someone is Christian just by their names. Sometimes you can even guess if someone is Catholic or Orthodox.

Abdelnour
01-21-2020, 03:47 PM
Arabization was imposed by force on Middle Eastern Christians, so a Christian 'Mansour' from the Levant and a Muslim 'Mansour' from North Africa or Arabia don't actually share the same lineages.

Still, many Levantine Christian surnames are plain and simple Aramaic: Haddad, Semaan, Shamoun

Some of Greek origin: Kyriacos, Constantin

And of course Biblical ones, arabized or not: Elias, Boutros (Peter), Boulos (Paul), Hanna (John), Gebrael etc

And of course the most common Levantine Christian surname, Khoury, which literally means Priest.

Generally speaking it's very easy to know if someone is Christian just by their names. Sometimes you can even guess if someone is Catholic or Orthodox.

I know of an Assyrian by Samaan.

My cousins last name is Haddad. The last name is also popular with Sephardic Jews.

Yorgo
01-21-2020, 07:11 PM
I know of an Assyrian by Samaan.

My cousins last name is Haddad. The last name is also popular with Sephardic Jews.

Other Levantine Christian surnames: Abdel Nour, Abdel Massih (Servant of Christ), Kassab, Fares, Karam, Saliba, Maalouf, Khalil, Salloum, Touma, Tannous, Antoun, Mikhael, Youssef, Yacoub, Younan

As one can see, mostly a mix of Syriac, Arabized Biblical and Greek-derived names.


One thing I noticed is that some Lebanese Christians (most likely Maronites) have Latin-derived surnames, which is unusual for other Levantine Christians: Romanos, Germanos, Frances, Stefan

Other surnames I associate mostly with Lebanese Christians: Helou, Slim, Skaf, Harb, Sarkis, Aoun

Hajimurad
01-21-2020, 07:27 PM
Arabization was imposed by force on Middle Eastern Christians, so a Christian 'Mansour' from the Levant and a Muslim 'Mansour' from North Africa or Arabia don't actually share the same lineages.

Still, many Levantine Christian surnames are plain and simple Aramaic: Haddad, Semaan, Shamoun

Some of Greek origin: Kyriacos, Constantin

And of course Biblical ones, arabized or not: Elias, Boutros (Peter), Boulos (Paul), Hanna (John), Gebrael etc

And of course the most common Levantine Christian surname, Khoury, which literally means Priest.

Generally speaking it's very easy to tell if someone is Christian just by their names. Sometimes you can even guess if someone is Catholic or Orthodox.

Do mountain Christians of all denominations (Tur-Abdin, Lebanon, Hakkari and other regions) trace their ancestry from famous cities of Middle East (Baghdad, Mosul, Antiochia, Damascus, Aleppo, Jerusalem etc)?

Yorgo
01-21-2020, 09:57 PM
Do mountain Christians of all denominations (Tur-Abdin, Lebanon, Hakkari and other regions) trace their ancestry from famous cities of Middle East (Baghdad, Mosul, Antiochia, Damascus, Aleppo, Jerusalem etc)?

Middle Eastern Christians are native to the respective areas they inhabit, unlike the Muslims. We don't trace our ancestry to just one specific city, since the whole region used to be Christian. And many of us have relatives spread across the region.

Serbat14
01-22-2020, 10:41 AM
Other Levantine Christian surnames: Abdel Nour, Abdel Massih (Servant of Christ), Kassab, Fares, Karam, Saliba, Maalouf, Khalil, Salloum, Touma, Tannous, Antoun, Mikhael, Youssef, Yacoub, Younan

As one can see, mostly a mix of Syriac, Arabized Biblical and Greek-derived names.


One thing I noticed is that some Lebanese Christians (most likely Maronites) have Latin-derived surnames, which is unusual for other Levantine Christians: Romanos, Germanos, Frances, Stefan

Other surnames I associate mostly with Lebanese Christians: Helou, Slim, Skaf, Harb, Sarkis, Aoun

Wait so basically their surnames just got Arabinized?

By the way, why do some of them have Latin sounding surnames?

dark-mysterio
01-22-2020, 11:55 PM
Arabization was imposed by force on Middle Eastern Christians, so a Christian 'Mansour' from the Levant and a Muslim 'Mansour' from North Africa or Arabia don't actually share the same lineages.

Still, many Levantine Christian surnames are plain and simple Aramaic: Haddad, Semaan, Shamoun

Some of Greek origin: Kyriacos, Constantin

And of course Biblical ones, arabized or not: Elias, Boutros (Peter), Boulos (Paul), Hanna (John), Gebrael etc

And of course the most common Levantine Christian surname, Khoury, which literally means Priest.

Generally speaking it's very easy to tell if someone is Christian just by their names. Sometimes you can even guess if someone is Catholic or Orthodox.

and the "the arabization" wasn't also imposed on the muslim/others :confused3:?

VigVagKesalt
01-26-2020, 07:31 AM
According to Israel, Arabs are just the Muslims surrounding them. They see Christian Levantines as non-Arab.