What does it mean that Albanian is a language isolate within the IE family?

[Illyrius]

Could there have been similar languages related to Albanian?
An Albanic Group of IE and paleo-balkanic languages perhaps
Did Albanian directly cut off and split from Proto-indo-european?
Was Proto Indo European similar to Albanian?
Are greek and Albanian the oldest branches of Indo-European meaning that they're isolates
Was Tocharian more similar to Albanian or Greek?
In which language group should Albanian be classified and put into.

[Nurzat]

1. Could there have been similar languages related to Albanian?
2. Was Proto Indo European similar to Albanian?

1. maybe Dacian/Thracian was grouped with Illiryan but it's only speculation

2. no. and there's extensive research done on PIE


a simple wikipedia article could be very informative for your questions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_languages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sprachbund

[Illyrius]

But still that doesn't deny the fact that Albanian is an old language

[Div]

1. Yes, the most similar languages are probably paleo-Balkan dialects that were neighboring Albania like Thracian. Some people even think Phrygian and Hittite are related to Albanian.

2. PIE is a re-constructed language, so there are similarities just like with English and PIE.

3. Greek and Albanian are most likely related since they derive from invaders who took over the Peninsula.

4. In most graphic depictions Albanian is seen as its own branch in the IE family. It is derived from a dialect of Illyrian which eventually evolved into proto-Albanian and sometime around the 14th century a group of Albanians moved south to become the Tosks.

5. Tocharian is in the centum group, that's been verified. However, linguists still debate over whether Albanian is Centum or Satem. So there is no definitive answer for this, it depends on the specific school of thought you work from.

[Dick]

But still that doesn't deny the fact that Albanian is an old language

No it is not. It's a modern day Creole language, like english, of god know's what mishmashed all together(Slavic, Greek,Latin, Arabic, Caucasus Armenian)



5. Tocharian is in the centum group, that's been verified. However, linguists still debate over whether Albanian is Centum or Satem. So there is no definitive answer for this, it depends on the specific school of thought you work from.

The general rule of thumb for the centum vs satem theory is that k and g sounds became s and z. It's not rocket science. So Which one is Albanian then?

[Div]

No it is not. It's a modern day Creole language, like english, of god know's what mishmashed all together(Slavic, Greek,Latin, Arabic, Caucasus Armenian)



The general rule of thumb for the centum vs satem theory is that k and g sounds became s and z. It's not rocket science. So Which one is Albanian then?

Probably centum then.

[Dick]

Probably centum then.

In that case two armchair linguists figured it out in a few minutes meanwhile professional linguists still debate over it.

[Turkophagos]

Albanian is related to Georgian and Armenian.

[Illyrius]

I really hate it how people dismiss the truth
Albanian is closest language to Proto-indo-European, hence it neither being centum or satem.

[mamacia]

It's an ''isolate'' because it forms it's own branch within the IE family and is unrelated to any language also which adds more to the fact that it actually is an Ancient language and not a mish mash of different languages as claimed by some here. It branched off from an Ancient Balkan language which is now extinct basicall and which would of formed it's own group within the IE family together with Albanian.


It's at least 3000 years old. Ancestor of Albanian was also probably the first Indo European language spoken in Europe since the Balkans received Indo European migrations already during the Bronze Age compared to the rest of Europe which seemed to of occurred later during the Iron Age.

Even if it has loan words, it still branched from an Ancient Balkan language but later added Latin influence and some Slavic+Germanic due to being in contact with such people. Doesn't change the fact that it's still an old language as it's main or lots of its structure hasn't really changed. Also it's Latin influence is pretty old, dates back before Christianity. All languages change over time and get other influences, especially when they are subjects of other Empires which Albanians have been such as Roman and various other empires, adds more to the Ancient origin of a people or language if they actually have loan words from other people they came in contact with or other empires. This is a no brainer. Some people here arguing that it's not an old language (mostly Serbs and Greeks I see) while claiming Albanians are some new people because supposedly mentioned ''late'' that magically popped out of nowhere, how would such a thing even be possible. If it has loan words from other populations or old Empires such as Roman then it shows that ancestors of Albanians were around already then and subjects of such old empires.


The Balkans has been a crossroad of different Empires and people which Albanians have been a subject of or part of, no wonder it has such different influences. It just testifies to the old origin of Albanians and that they have been always around there. But the people that use these arguments are the same ones that claim basically that Albanians are supposedly some people that ''popped'' relatively late in history. Such a thing would be of course impossible.

It seemed to of also influenced other Balkan languages.

The small ''Arabic'' influence, is from Turkish due to the Ottoman Empire which is also found in Serbian and other Balkan languages. The connection with Armenian has also been included with Greek and is most likely due to common IE roots, same way Slavic has been connected to Indo Iranian. Albanian has also been connected to Balto-Slavic and Germanic. And some even grouped it with Germanic but later decided it's different. I know some argued it branched off from an Ancient Germanic language.



Also the wikipedia article regarding Illyrian and Balkan sprachbund and Albanian is honestly quite bogus. It's pretty obvious Albanians are a West Balkan people. Since the West Balkans were under Roman occupation for the longest period. Whereas the East Balkans wasn't. Bulgaria and Southern Balkans was also under long periods of Hellenic influence. A lot of Thracian tribes became Hellenized.

What I never understood is why some people actually believe that Romanian language originated in Dacia when it obviously didn't. There is almost nothing added in the wikipedia page to debate this.

[mamacia]

Albanian is related to Georgian and Armenian.


Never heard that Albanian is related to Georgian. What are you even babbling on about ?

Only way would be that IE people were half Caucasian or half CHG basically. And IE seems to of branched off from a Caucasic+Uralic language basically. It's more or less the only relationship Albanian has to such languages or people. Other than that I'd say Greeks are by far closer to those people.

[mamacia]

No it is not. It's a modern day Creole language, like english, of god know's what mishmashed all together(Slavic, Greek,Latin, Arabic, Caucasus Armenian)



The general rule of thumb for the centum vs satem theory is that k and g sounds became s and z. It's not rocket science. So Which one is Albanian then?


Yes, it is.

It's for the most part not a mix of those languages at all. A lot of the similarities with those languages is mostly due to a common Indo-European ancestor. Also shows commonalities with Germanic.

Since it was actually believed by Hamp for example that an Albanian or Albanoid like language was spoken all across the Western Balkans, all the way up to the border of Hungary and Austria.

But I guess you never heard of Indo European language and how they all show commonalities. You're passing commonalities that most likely come from common Indo European ancestors as ''influences'' basically without even knowing if they are influences.

We don't even have enough of Ancient Balkan languages to compare to Albanian to even see how much it has changed. Even Latin might not of had that strong influence as believed. And Albanian might not of even changed THAT much. There is a reason why it forms an own branch within the IE tree.

Armenians have never been present in the Balkans to of influenced Albanians so not sure what you're even talking about there , it's an Indo European language and shows similarities with other Indo European languages including Slavic, Greek etc, it's more so that Albanian, Armenian and other Indo European languages share common ancestors. Especially since it's possible Armenian came from the Balkans also.

[Illyrius]

Albanians are the original PIE people
The R1b ones at least.