Şah İsmayıl / Shah Ismail Appreciation Thread

[Kyp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7k8QX3JIKI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50SQnhVRLq4&list=PLebvboeWAWaQGmDyXMv4SDw5uIZRQZ891&index=2&t=0s


Ismail declares himself Shah by entering Təbriz
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Ismail_declares_himself_shah_by_entering_Tabriz%2C _Chingiz_Mehbaliyev.jpg/1280px-Ismail_declares_himself_shah_by_entering_Tabriz%2C _Chingiz_Mehbaliyev.jpg

Statue in Ardabil, Iranian Azerbaijan
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fa/thumb/c/cb/Shah_esmaeil.JPG/576px-Shah_esmaeil.JPG
Statue in Baku, Republic of Azerbaijan
http://danamotor.ir/media/Baku_Shah_Ismail_Safavi_Statue.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/november-26-khachmaz-city-azerbaijan-a-statue-of-shah-ismail-khatai-picture-id478496948
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Shah_Ismail_I.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/e7/27/0e/e7270ebee672254d32132ad691d2ab9c.jpg
http://dedehankulturevi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/18-20x25-1.jpg
Safavid Unity
http://98211921.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/2/1/44216611/header_images/1422591323.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oMHL0eF.jpg

[Kyp]

His animosity with Ottoman Sultan Selim I
https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2015/09/04/HaberDetay/1441321268301.jpg


Letter exchange before battle:

http://www1.udel.edu/History-old/figal/Hist104/assets/pdf/readings/02selimismail.pdf

[Kyp]

Facts:

- his father a Qizilbash leader died in battle when he was just 4
- quickly rose to power in NW Iran, declared himself Shah in Tebriz
- in 1510 he moved against Sunni Uzbek tribes and defeated the 28.000 men army with only 17.000 men, leader of the Uzbeks, was killed trying to escape after the battle
- established Shia Islam as State religion
- in 1514 the Ottomans, with highly trained professional troops armed with muskets and artillery, invaded northwest Iran. Ismāʿīl rushed from his campaigns in Central Asia to oppose the threat to his capital at Tabrīz. In a hard-fought battle, Selim and a force of 120,000 troops defeated Ismāʿīl and his army of 70,000 Ismāʿīl was wounded and nearly captured as he tried to rally troops. The Ottomans then took Tabrīz without opposition. A mutiny among his troops, however, forced Selim to withdraw, giving Ismāʿīl time to recover his strength.
- considered firearms unmanly which lead to the defeat
- The basic conflict between the Shīʿite empire Ismāʿīl had founded and the Sunnī Ottomans in the west and the Sunni Uzbek tribes in the east continued for more than a century.
- Ismāʿīl died at the age of 36

[Oghuz]

Shah Ismael was great and pioneer of the modern Iranian identity no doubt but Abbas was the greatest Saffavid Shah ever.

[Kyp]

Shah Ismael was great and pioneer of the modern Iranian identity no doubt but Abbas was the greatest Saffavid Shah ever.

I've always found myself more drawn to Ismail. He seems so deep and dutiful.

[Kamal900]

I've always found myself more drawn to Ismail. He seems so deep and dutiful.

It's not odd considering that you're half Iranian Azeri and all like Ismail. It's odd on how Iranian Azeris identify more closer to Iranians while those in Azerbaijan feel more closer to Turkey and all.

[Kyp]

It's not odd considering that you're half Iranian Azeri and all like Ismail. It's odd on how Iranian Azeris identify more closer to Iranians while those in Azerbaijan feel more closer to Turkey and all.

Yes but to be fair Ismail is also considered a great man/leader among a lot Republican Azerbaijanis and Shias/Alevis in Turkey.

[Fedora]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3eRI5K2diU

[Kyp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3eRI5K2diU

Love this song!

[MustafaTekin]

I like some of his poems. Nadir shah is the greatest (turkic) emperor of iran tho.

[Kyp]

Ismail hunting down Uzbek leader Shaybani Khan in battle
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/The_Battle_between_Shah_Ismail_and_Shaybani_Khan.j pg

[Negah]

I like some of his poems. Nadir shah is the greatest (turkic) emperor of iran tho.

Nadir Shah was perhaps one of the top 5 greatest military leaders of all time.

However, the difference between Ismail and Nader was that Ismail established a dynasty that lasted over 200 years and its impact on Iran was profound and transformative, the other one became so paranoid that he killed or maimed everyone of his successors; therefore, his dynasty did not last after his death and the legacy of his dynasty beyond Nader Shah's incredible military victories was not much.

[Negah]

It's odd on how Iranian Azeris identify more closer to Iranians while those in Azerbaijan feel more closer to Turkey and all.

It stems from the poor leadership in Iran that has caused northern Azeris to feel alienated towards Iranians. But Northern Azeris share identical history and culture with Iran, not Turkey.

[Kyp]

It stems from the poor leadership in Iran that has caused northern Azeris to feel alienated towards Iranians. But Northern Azeris share identical history and culture with Iran, not Turkey.

People shouldn't be illiterate in their mother tounge..
What can be done in the future?

[Reis-i Cumhur]

I don't care how he was a noble or good person.He was a loser and faggot and also He lost his wife to Armenoid Selim.What a shame !
Edit:I shit on his name.Most of Turkmens removed cuz of his fault.He literally sold his believers and supporters.
I don't blame armenoid Selim he did it for turkish safety.

[Kyp]

I don't care how he was a noble or good person.He was a loser and faggot and also He lost his wife to Armenoid Selim.What a shame !

I don't think he was a good person per se. He was brutal and had a god-complex Definetly not a "good person". But this thread is about appreciation. No ruler is perfect. I think he played an integral part for Azerbaijani people's ethnogenesis and Alevites in the long run.

[Aileron]

It stems from the poor leadership in Iran that has caused northern Azeris to feel alienated towards Iranians. But Northern Azeris share identical history and culture with Iran, not Turkey.

Honestly i think Azeris from Azerbaijan feel much closer to Caucasians and us compared to Iran

[itilvolga]

He was a fair man. Tekelis (a qizilbash Turkmen tribe) revolted against Ottomans and decided to follow Shah Ismail in Iran, during their migration, they looted some caravans in Elazig and Shah Ismail put them to death just because of that when they finally arrived to Iran.

[Reis-i Cumhur]

I don't think he was a good person per se. He was brutal and had a god-complex Definetly not a "good person". But this thread is about appreciation. No ruler is perfect. I think he played an integral part for Azerbaijani people's ethnogenesis and Alevites in the long run.

Dude Most of Eastern Turks don't have turkic ancestry because of this muthafucker and Armenoid Selim.
Do you know that ?No matter what Shah and Armenoid Selim destroyed Turkic heritage in eastern Anatolia.
My people removed from anatolia to Iran but thanks to tengri we found the true way and come back to Turkey again.
Proud Turkish

[Kyp]

Honestly i think Azeris from Azerbaijan feel much closer to Caucasians and us compared to Iran

Because Iranian identity is based on three things:

1. Persian chauvinism, later got removed for Iranian chauvinism
2. Iranian chauvinism: includes Azeris, but denies Turkic background. Considers them native Azeri people.
3. Shia Islam.

Hardcore shia azeris won't have any problems with Iran. They can easily play integral parts in Iran. But if you're not hardcore Shia and care about your mother tongue/culture etc. you'll easily will find yourself alienated by Iran because you're left with Persian/Iranian chauvinism and a regime runned by clerics on top of that (universal issue).
Republic Azerbaijanis broke most ties with Iranian culture and they'll never look bad, for better or for worse.

[Kyp]

Dude Most of Eastern Turks don't have turkic ancestry because of this muthafucker and Armenoid Selim.
Do you know that ?No matter what Shah and Armenoid Selim destroyed Turkic heritage in eastern Anatolia.
My people removed from anatolia to Iran but thanks to tengri we found the true way and come back to Turkey again.
Proud Turkish

I don't care if Eastern Turkey has turkic ancestry or not. I'm not from there and I won't hate them just because they don't.
Also it was Selim's fault.

[Negah]

Honestly i think Azeris from Azerbaijan feel much closer to Caucasians and us compared to Iran

You mean Northern Azerbaijanis feel closer to Anatolian Turks, Armenians and Georgian than Iranian Azeris? You surely cannot be serious

[Negah]

Because Iranian identity is based on three things:

1. Persian chauvinism, later got removed for Iranian chauvinism
2. Iranian chauvinism: includes Azeris, but denies Turkic background. Considers them native Azeri people.
3. Shia Islam.

Hardcore shia azeris won't have any problems with Iran. They can easily play integral parts in Iran. But if you're not hardcore Shia and care about your mother tongue/culture etc. you'll easily will find yourself alienated by Iran because you're left with Persian/Iranian chauvinism and a regime runned by clerics on top of that (universal issue).
Republic Azerbaijanis broke most ties with Iranian culture and they'll never look bad, for better or for worse.

Persian chauvinism? that is Pan Turkic nonsense without any foundations. Let me tell you why. I think the reason Iran under both the Pahlavis and the current region suppressed local languages and identities has 2 primary drivers 1) after world war I Iran attempted to modernize itself in the form of a European country. European countries are modeled based on ethnicity. So Iran a nation that has existed for over 2000 years made a feeble attempt to model itself the same. The leaders of Iran know it has failed in some regions while it succeeded in some. So today Gilakis, Mazandarnis, Lurs, Bakhtiari, etc all identify as Persians. With some other groups, it has yielded some animosity and tension. it failed

The 2nd factor for these policies was that the outsiders namely Russia, Britain and today the USA attempt tp weaken Iran by exploring its minority groups. Iran cannot allow these movements to weaken the central government so stupidly Iran is paranoid and they suppress them

So it is really not chauvinism that has led to these policies, there is more to it as you can see.

The other issue for Northern Azerbaijanis is that the clerical regime is not appealing to them. Azerbaijan was under Soviet rule for 200 years and it is rather secular and not religious.

[Negah]

Dude Most of Eastern Turks don't have turkic ancestry because of this muthafucker and Armenoid Selim.
Do you know that ?No matter what Shah and Armenoid Selim destroyed Turkic heritage in eastern Anatolia.
My people removed from anatolia to Iran but thanks to tengri we found the true way and come back to Turkey again.
Proud Turkish

I have no idea what you have written here.

[Kyp]

Persian chauvinism? that is Pan Turkic nonsense without any foundations. Let me tell you why. I think the reason Iran both the Pahalavis and current region suppressed local languages and identities has 2 primary drivers 1) after world war I Iran attempted to modernize itself in the form of a European country. European countries are modeled based on ethnicity. So Iran a nation that has existed for over 2000 years made a feeble attempt to model itself the same. The leaders of Iran know it has failed in some regions while it succeeds in some. So today Gilakis, Mazandarnis, Lurs, Bakhtiari, etc all identify as Persians. With some other groups, it has yielded some animosity and tension.

The 2nd factor for these policies was that the outsiders namely Russia, Britain and today the USA attempt tp weaken Iran by exploring its minority groups. Iran cannot allow these movements to weaken the central government so stupidly Iran is paranoid and they suppress them

So it is really not chauvinism that has led to these policies, there is more to it as you can see.

The other issue for Northern Azerbaijanis is that the clerical regime is not appealing to them. Azerbaijan was under Soviet rule for 200 years and it is rather secular and not religious.

Isn't this a form of chauvinism? It confirms my point. I'm not a supporter of any Pan-idealistic movements. I just want more language rights for Azeris. The rest is up in the stars. Current situation isn't ideal regardless of ethnicity/region.

[MustafaTekin]

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60323069_2323806504559698_680530936621694976_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=nfaY7eOgUvgAX-I0I96&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=478726040233b480c6611d8de3e315f9&oe=5EC89F06

[Negah]

Isn't this a form of chauvinism? It confirms my point. I'm not a supporter of any Pan-idealistic movements. I just want more language rights for Azeris. The rest is up in the stars. Current regime isn't ideal regardless of ethnicity/region.

Persian was the lingua franca of the region for over 1300 years. Northern Azerbaijan is home to great Persian poets such as Nizami Ganjavi, Khaqani, etc reflecting that Persian was the language that was embraced by many groups and it was the language that connected people of the region. Then the adoption of Persian made sense, and it was not enforced and adopted due chauvinism. It was a logical move. But other policies were erroneous. The bigger question is how do you make a transition without breaking the country apart.

As I said I certainly don't support these policies, but I don't think chauvinism is the proper word for the current predicament

[Negah]

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60323069_2323806504559698_680530936621694976_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=nfaY7eOgUvgAX-I0I96&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=478726040233b480c6611d8de3e315f9&oe=5EC89F06

What is the purpose of this idiotic, anti-intellectual post? Every ruler from that age killed a lot of people. That is not how you measure a person like SHAH ISMAIL.

The truth is that he is universally considered by historians as a great leader nothing can change or alter that.

You have the intellectual integrity of an infant

[Heaven]

There are historical records about his ancestry. You have "Al Kurdi" when you dig some generations back in time. He was a sick person eliminating his own mother. Pretty much like Apricity German Skinheads preferring Poles over Prussians.
İsmail is the symbol of modern Iran, rather than Azerbaijan which is Akkoyunlu revivalist state of Uzun Hasan and founded by Young Turks in 1918. Azerbaijan is more of Nadir Shah and Uzun Hasan. Iran, banana Islamic Republic is from Ismail.

[Negah]

There are historical records about his ancestry. You have "Al Kurdi" when you dig some generations back in time. He was a sick person eliminating his own mother. Pretty much like Apricity German Skinheads preferring Poles over Prussians.
İsmail is the symbol of modern Iran, rather than Azerbaijan which is Akkoyunlu revivalist state of Uzun Hasan and founded by Young Turks in 1918. Azerbaijan is more of Nadir Shah and Uzun Hasan. Iran, banana Islamic Republic is from Ismail.

You may think gibberish is covert nonsense talk or something a 2-month-old infant might say, but, in reality, it is a "secret language" used by some either for secrecy or just for kicks. If you want to join the conversation, listen (and read!) up.

This post by Heaven is in gibberish, not English.

[Aileron]

You mean Northern Azerbaijanis feel closer to Anatolian Turks, Armenians and Georgian than Iranian Azeris? You surely cannot be serious

Nope i meant North Azeris would feel closer to us than non Azeri İranians

[Negah]

Nope i meant North Azeris would feel closer to us than non Azeri İranians

I agree with you to an extent. I think we both agree that clearly the closest group to Northern Azerbaijanis are Southern Azerbaijanis. I think that is an indisputable fact.

Linguistically and politically they tend to be closer to Turkey than non-Azeri Iranians. However, religiously culturally and historically they share more with Iranians. The closeness to Turkey is a recent phenomenon and has no historical precedent while with Iran it has a historical foundation.

Turkey's interest in Azerbaijan is about its energy resources and blocking Russian influence into Turkey. Plus Azerbaijan will also provide Turkey a window and an access into the energy-rich Central Asian Republics of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, and ultimately make Turkey a major hub of energy to Europe and the rest of world, and Azerbaijan's interest in working with the Turks is to weaken the Russian influence and to provide additional markets for their oil outside the former Soviet Bloc. Also, to provide an ally to regain Nagaro-Karabakh from the Armenians who are a very close ally of the Russians. So Azeris are hoping that long term Turkey can be used against the Russians in the region.

While Turkic brotherhood /Pan Turkism plays a role and has an appeal in both Turkey and Azerbaijan other factors play much more pivotal roles.

Clearly, I agree with you at least for the time being Turkey and Azerbaijan are much closer than Iran and Azerbaijan despite Iran having a large Azeri population.