Intelligent design in nature is a fact

[Loki]

I find it astonishing how secular naturalists and academics can refute and slander it. It is very evident, when investigating the complexity of certain species, that common evolutionary processes like natural selection cannot explain all detail of design. There must have been a very intelligent and awesome designer!

[Aldaris]

I find it astonishing how secular naturalists and academics can refute and slander it. It is very evident, when investigating the complexity of certain species, that common evolutionary processes like natural selection cannot explain all detail of design. There must have been a very intelligent and awesome designer!

I don't think most of them claim they can outright refute it. That said, they're gonna need a bit more to accept it.

[Loki]

I don't think most of them claim they can outright refute it. That said, they're gonna need a bit more to accept it.

I think they are too biased to even consider it. They probably don't ever sit and think about the logic of it all... to me, intelligent design is absolutely obvious. No scientific experiments need to be done to grasp it, or mathematical calculations... it can be understood through simple observation and deduction. It's so obvious, I'd say it's like a huge elephant in the room, that no-one seems to notice... and mostly due to inherent bias (because of the religious implications thereof), but also due to ignorance or lack of intelligence; incapable of logical thinking.

[Arsen_]

There are even much more astonishing things: there are some so-called constants that underlie our Universe. And it turns out that if even one of these constants were one millionth of a fraction different from the existing one, then the present Universe would never exist!

[Aldaris]

I think they are too biased to even consider it. They probably don't ever sit and think about the logic of it all... to me, intelligent design is absolutely obvious. No scientific experiments need to be done to grasp it, or mathematical calculations... it can be understood through simple observation and deduction. It's so obvious, I'd say it's like a huge elephant in the room, that no-one seems to notice... and mostly due to inherent bias (because of the religious implications thereof), but also due to ignorance or lack of intelligence; incapable of logical thinking.

I'm afraid it's not that simple, but you surely must see this yourself. In any case, Loki, scientists deserve more credit than you give them. You seem to think everyone else is missing something and while nobody's free of bias, academic world isn't as close minded as you think. I know you do this because you want people to be saved, which is honorable, but if intelligent design was really that obvious, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

[Aldaris]

There are even much more astonishing things: there are some so-called constants that underlie our Universe. And it turns out that if even one of these constants were one millionth of a fraction different from the existing one, then the present Universe would never exist!

Doesn't that hold for any universe whatsoever? I mean, the parameters have to end up somehow - if the constants turned up differently, you could have said the exact same thing.

[Arsen_]

Doesn't that hold for any universe whatsoever? I mean, the parameters have to end up somehow - if the constants turned up differently, you could have said the exact same thing.

Not at all! For any constants different from the existing ones there would be nothing but the infinitesimal dust of elementary particles in an infinite vacuum.

[Aldaris]

Not at all! For any constants different from the existing ones there would be nothing but the infinitesimal dust of elementary particles in an infinite vacuum.

Sounds a lot like overwhelming majority of the one we're stuck in. Minus a lot of black holes.

[Arsen_]

Sounds a lot like overwhelming majority of the one we're stuck in. Minus a lot of black holes.


Тонкая настройка Вселенной

Тонкая настройка Вселенной (от англ. fine-tuning) — концепция в теоретической физике, согласно которой в основе Вселенной и ряда её составляющих лежат не произвольные, а строго определённые значения фундаментальных констант, входящих в физические законы. В состав минимального списка этих фундаментальных мировых констант обычно включают скорость света (c), гравитационную постоянную (G), постоянную Планка (h), массы электрона и протона m_{e}, m_{p} и заряд электрона (e).

Замечено, что изменение значения констант в пределах порядка или исключение одного из внутренних квантовых чисел ведёт к невозможности существования атомов, звёзд, галактик и жизни.



https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BD%D0%B0% D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%92%D 1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9



Fine tune the universe

Fine tuning of the Universe (from the English fine-tuning) is a concept in theoretical physics, according to which the Universe and a number of its components are based not on arbitrary, but on strictly defined values ​​of fundamental constants that are part of physical laws. The minimum list of these fundamental world constants usually includes the speed of light (c), gravitational constant (G), Planck constant (h), electron and proton masses m_ {e}, m_ {p} and electron charge (e).

It is noted that changing the value of the constants within the order of magnitude or the exclusion of one of the internal quantum numbers leads to the impossibility of the existence of atoms, stars, galaxies and life.

[Aldaris]

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BD%D0%B0% D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%92%D 1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9

In the form we know these? Sure. In a sort of equivalent form? Not so. This whole field is kinda new and unknown, so I'd be rather careful with making bold, anthropocentric assertions like the whole fine-tuned universe concept, which is basically a carbon chauvinism taken to the level of cosmology. I mean, sure, some alternative explanation may turn out to be correct, but we're not quite there yet.

[Tauromachos]

Yeah its a fact

A fact is also many things nature does and many things we humans(as a part of nature) do are not intelligent...

Nature look a bit like a half finished product and maybe its our(real) task to do the rest of work to be done

[Loki]

I'm afraid it's not that simple, but you surely must see this yourself. In any case, Loki, scientists deserve more credit than you give them. You seem to think everyone else is missing something and while nobody's free of bias, academic world isn't as close minded as you think. I know you do this because you want people to be saved, which is honorable, but if intelligent design was really that obvious, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

The thing is, though, whilst useful to explain most things in life, there are things that are beyond the reach of scientific verification... hence science cannot be used to explain everything. For example -- science cannot adequately explain life; consciousness. It can explain the environment necessary for life to exist, it can explain the chemical processes of life, etc... but it cannot explain life itself. Life is not merely a sum of all its chemical processes. Likewise, it cannot explain human will. We autonomously make decisions in our lives that can be influenced by many things, yet science cannot explain what exactly human will is, or how it came to be. Scientists need to understand where to draw the line on what they can or cannot do.

[Loki]

I know you do this because you want people to be saved, which is honorable, but if intelligent design was really that obvious, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

No, here you are wrong I'm afraid. I've made this thread because I've been thinking about this logically, and it wasn't motivated by my desire to see people saved. And yes ID is very obvious to me... I can see the hand of a higher creator in creation... most definitely. Everyone who opens his eyes and lays his biases to rest, and employ some genuine critical thinking should also realise this.

[Oghuz]

I find it astonishing how secular naturalists and academics can refute and slander it. It is very evident, when investigating the complexity of certain species, that common evolutionary processes like natural selection cannot explain all detail of design. There must have been a very intelligent and awesome designer!

Very Good post.

Equilibrium within Atomic structure, on which this whole universe is based upon, is the evidence itself. Someone or something started the spin of electron around nucleus.

We may call that designer different names but He is there and is one.