Why there is backwardness wherever there is Islam?

[Heaven]

Whereas wherever you have Cristians (especially Protestant), you see a calm and prosperous society, why there is backwardness and turmoil virtually anywhere there is Islam?
There is a similar trend even inside Muslim regions. The more there is a rise in religiosity, the more backwards.

[pulstar]

Whereas wherever you have Cristians (especially Protestant), you see a calm and prosperous society, why there is backwardness and turmoil virtually anywhere there is Islam?
There is a similar trend even inside Muslim regions. The more there is a rise in religiosity, the more backwards.

I think you can answer it yourself coming from Muslim country

[Dorian]

Because wherever it's present ,primitive races are too...so islam is not the cause ,it's just one more symptom..

[Synapsid]

Ultra conservatism, inhibition of human creativity to maintain orthodoxy (anti innovation) and retrograde Arab and Semitic costumes that is intrinsic to the religion. Its a very reactionary belief system.

[Synapsid]

Because wherever it's present ,primitive races are too...so islam is not the cause ,it's just one more symptom..

Which primitive races?

[Heaven]

Ultra conservatism, inhibition of human creativity to maintain orthodoxy (anti innovation) and retrograde Arab and Semitic costumes that is intrinsic to the religion. Its a very reactionary belief system.

Interesting point. You are like describing a system creating self-made hell on earth.

[Synapsid]

Interesting point. You are like describing a system creating self-made hell on earth.

I would not say that it creates hell on earth. Saudi Arabia is arguably preferable to North Korea for example (unless you are very unconventional, liberal minded woman). But conservative Islamic societies creates a society that arrest development to maintain the status quo and limit innovation to prevent orthodox tenets being violated. After all, Islam is not suppose to be 'corrupted' like Judaism and Christianity, since its the original and un-corrupted religion from God. Its an iconoclastic religion, that discourages representational art and music, two fields of human endeavours that from neo-biological point of view, stimulates human creativity and imagination (look at MRI and glucose brain intake studies). hence why Medieval Islamic anatomy lagged behind Post Renaissance era European anatomy in the age before photographs existed (look Andreas Vesalius fine detailed drawings or the 19th century Gray's Anatomy text-book). I remember in my early childhood in Leicester (an immigrant populated town in the UK) seeing Muslims parents debate about where their children are theologically allowed to watch television or attend class cinema, or attend art and design class since drawing living objects with eyes is considered bad in some hadiths.
Islam also puts a heavy emphasis on route learning (e.g. spending your childhood learning the entire corpus of the Qur'an is idolised) and repetitive rituals such 5 times a day prayer. The repetitive behaviours has a long term effect on the brain. Islam (at least Sunni Islam) also follows the argument form authority fallacy, where a religious Muslim is not suppose to question to much about what Allah has reviled hence it better to suspend your critical faculties than to lose some faith in 'relived truths'. Of course in Islam, knowledge is generally seen as a good thing and is preferred over ignorance e.g. there is a Hadith where the prophet said to seek knowledge as far as China. But if that knowledge contradict scripture that it better to choose scripture over said knowledge for the religion sake, not on the weight of the evidences (for examples, the story of Adam creation vs modern Evolutionary theory). This thinking process will sooner or later class with modernity. This why North East Asians have a easier time with modernisation and handing a complex modern societies and an industrial economy than the MENA region, despite MENAs being geographically, genetically and (arguably) historically closer to Europeans (the first people to create an Industrial society).

Its also why Islam is popular amongst Westerners who either failed in life (Prisoners etc), made unstable choices (e.g. Drug addiction), live unstable lives or feel rootless and alienated from society. For example, Islam became popular in Aframs living in lower income neighbourhoods (by product of jim crow and red-lining) since the 60s because (a) Its more against 'da white man' (b) Its provides more structural stability in their lives (its is a community rife with illegitimacy rates, drug usage, gun violence and discrimination). I mean who is more likely to adopt Islam on a larger scale, a faculty in a leading western university that does research in theoretical physics or evolutionary biology or a prison full of dispossessed minorities with grievances .
Societies that have higher rates of cognition and an advanced material and social culture are less likely to adopt Islam as en-mass or make it a state religion. E.g. Both Sub-Saharan Africans and Han Chinese/North East Asians have been in contact with the Arabs and other Islamized people groups since the high middle ages. The Chinese had contact with Islamic Polities since the Tang Dynasties via conflict like the battle of Talas river or peaceful trade through the silk road that was dominated by Turkics, sogdians and Arabs. Yet it was the Sub-Saharans that a higher rate of voluntary conversion to Islam (nearly half of Africa is Islamic) than North East Asians, with only 0.5 of Han Chinese being Hui.

[Heaven]

...

Nice and informative post. Actually, friends of mine who have been Saudi Arabia report that the country is quite developed with "Sharia being only problem". Such Gulf countries don't produce anything, they live off hydrocarbon resources. And as such oil and gas resources are growing scarcer and are being replaced by renewable, environment-friendly solutions, Arabs are going anxious.
That will bring the end of Arabs, and when you add global warming, those deserts will be even more unlivable.

Arabs are aware of this. It is why they bribe their cucky slaves (political Islamics) from countries such as Turkey and Bosnia and are buying properties at cheap prices in those countries. They distribute passport to paradise in counterpart.

South Korea being only 45 million is more productive in terms of innovation than the 1.6 billion Muslims. Actually even the Communist North developed the a bomb and intercontinental ballistic missiles, which random Muslims can't have the capacity to do.

[Adamm]

Nice and informative post. Actually, friends of mine who have been Saudi Arabia report that the country is quite developed with "Sharia being only problem". Such Gulf countries don't produce anything, they live off hydrocarbon resources. And as such oil and gas resources are growing scarcer and are being replaced by renewable, environment-friendly solutions, Arabs are going anxious.
That will bring the end of Arabs, and when you add global warming, those deserts will be even more unlivable.

Arabs are aware of this. It is why they bribe their cucky slaves (political Islamics) from countries such as Turkey and Bosnia and are buying properties at cheap prices in those countries. They distribute passport to paradise in counterpart.

South Korea being only 45 million is more productive in terms of innovation than the 1.6 billion Muslims. Actually even the Communist North developed the a bomb and intercontinental ballistic missiles, which random Muslims can't have the capacity to do.

It's more of a genetic thing than a religious thing, East Asians have the highest IQ on average and are smarter than any other people on this planet. Protestants are pre-dominantly white North Europeans (Calvinists etc) and they are also higher IQ than other people regardless of ideology/religion, muslims are on average lower IQ because most muslims belong to low IQ race/ancestry. Just like black people belong to a race of pre dominantly low IQ people, black Christians and even Hispanic (Brown) christians can be as backward or more than muslims. So imo it's a matter of genetics and the development of culture surrounding those who adhere and belong to a certain genetic ancestry.

[Crn Volk]

Malaysia seems to do ok. Must be more racial.

[Synapsid]

Malaysia seems to do ok. Must be more racial.
Really?


https://youtu.be/4Q4_q8n45Ys

70% of Formal economy dominated by non-islamic Southern Han Chinese. They even have a system of affirmative action against the economically and academically Chinese and hindu minorities called bumiputra, despite being the dominate majority :/.

[Heaven]

Actually Malaysian and Indonesian economies are completely under the control non-Muslim Han. Singapore is also their miracle.
Were it not for American support to Muslim Malays and Austronesian elements in order to counter Chinese effect, the Chinese minorities would also take the control too.

As for Turkey, secularism enabled the country to modernize ever since the end of Ottoman era. However, with the rise of Muslim Arab nationalists (Ottoman Nostalgists etc) the once prospering country has redefined its orientation and stated to face towards countries such as Yemen or Afghanistan.
Value given to human life or overall life quality dropped dramatically in Turkey and continues to drop.

[Synapsid]

Actually Malaysian and Indonesian economies are completely under the control non-Muslim Han. Singapore is also their miracle.
Were it not for American support to Muslim Malays and Austronesian elements in order to counter Chinese effect, the Chinese minorities would also take the control too.

As for Turkey, secularism enabled the country to modernize ever since the end of Ottoman era. However, with the rise of Muslim Arab nationalists (Ottoman Nostalgists etc) the once prospering country has redefined its orientation and stated to face towards countries such as Yemen or Afghanistan.
Value given to human life or overall life quality dropped dramatically in Turkey and continues to drop.

How would you compare N.E Asians and Nothern Euros to MENA from your experience? And do you believe that Turkic people have the potential to do better? How is Erdogan's Neo-Ottoman dream impacting Turkey in a negative way?
Sorry for the mouthful questions but I would to see a Turks opinion on the matter

[Heaven]

How would you compare N.E Asians and Nothern Euros to MENA from your experience? And do you believe that Turkic people have the potential to do better? How is Erdogan's Neo-Ottoman dream impacting Turkey in a negative way?
Sorry for the mouthful questions but I would to see a Turks opinion on the matter

You are obviously Georgian and next to Turkey, if you travel to Turkey at regular intervals you would see the effects of increasing Ottomanism, Islam and integration with MENA.
Istanbul is being overcrowded and life is losing quality (becoming like Egypt or India), Turks being forced to pay higher taxes to feed Muslims, destruction of private property concept, removing gates and opening the country borders to anyone.
A path leading to national destruction.
A path justified and promoted by that religion.

[Synapsid]

You are obviously Georgian and next to Turkey, if you travel to Turkey at regular intervals you would see the effects of increasing Ottomanism, Islam and integration with MENA.
Istanbul is being overcrowded and life is losing quality (becoming like Egypt or India), Turks being forced to pay higher taxes to feed Muslims, destruction of private property concept, removing gates and opening the country borders to anyone.
A path leading to national destruction.
A path justified and promoted by that religion.

Are Turks getting more fed up by the situation?

[Heaven]

Sure. Last regional elections were won by secularist party which wants to depart from Middle Eastern phylosophy.

[Synapsid]

Sure. Last regional elections were won by secularist party which wants to depart from Middle Eastern phylosophy.

Would Erdogan eventually leave power? Who succeed him. That Imamgolu guy who won the Istanbul elections? Wouldn't there be a backlash by Islamist or conservatives who received Turkish support in MENA region or Africa (Somalia).

[Teutone]

Because wherever it's present ,primitive races are too...so islam is not the cause ,it's just one more symptom..

I doubt it, pre islamic civilizations of the middle east were quite impressive. I think Iran/Persia would thrive if it wasnt a islamic nation.

[Bosniensis]

Persia isn't Primitive
Pakistan = nuclear power
Turkey = doing well
Egypt = doing OK

Arabs are primitive, certain MENA sectarian tribal wars due to massive CNN, TIMES coverage.

Let's say.. CNN won't say how good Turkey is or How Iran is doing well, they will only show you some lunatics chopping heads.

If you curate your news from such media of course you will observe muslims as backward.

Also Ottoman Empire ruled mediterranean for 500+ years.. that isn't backwardness.

[Heaven]

Error

[Synapsid]

Persia isn't Primitive
Pakistan = nuclear power
Turkey = doing well
Egypt = doing OK

Arabs are primitive, certain MENA sectarian tribal wars due to massive CNN, TIMES coverage.

Let's say.. CNN won't say how good Turkey is or How Iran is doing well, they will only show you some lunatics chopping heads.

If you curate your news from such media of course you will observe muslims as backward.

Also Ottoman Empire ruled mediterranean for 500+ years.. that isn't backwardness.

delete

[Synapsid]

Persia isn't Primitive
Pakistan = nuclear power
Turkey = doing well
Egypt = doing OK

Arabs are primitive, certain MENA sectarian tribal wars due to massive CNN, TIMES coverage.

Let's say.. CNN won't say how good Turkey is or How Iran is doing well, they will only show you some lunatics chopping heads.

If you curate your news from such media of course you will observe muslims as backward.

Also Ottoman Empire ruled mediterranean for 500+ years.. that isn't backwardness.

The Ottomans did not rule the Mediterranean for 500 years. Only for perhaps 200 years before being beaten to a pump in naval powers by the Venetians and Iberians in the 1600s and first half of the 1700s and the Industrialised NW European powers of France and England in the 1700s and 1800s and WW1. By the time the Ottoman were at the Gates of Vienna, the great divergence had began and the game was up the sublime Porte, and the true steep decline has began after the treaty of Passarowitz. Western Science and engineering and Empirical-Rationalist philosophy have taken roots in much of Northern and central Europe. This translates in more advance military drills and doctrines (see Maurice of Nassau) and more Newtonian physics have given the Christian powers to develop more advanced weapon systems, while the Turks still used the old Humbaracı field artillery system that still depended on the old line of sight technique that was out dated in Enlightenment Era Western Europe. In-fact it was french man who introduced modern military warfare techniques to the Turks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Alexandre_de_Bonneval). And the Ottoman lasted as they did in the Balkans not due to Military prowess but intra-European power politics. Basically the French and British did not want to see Russia have access to the Dardanelles and a ice free base in Med, while the Austrians did not to see an over powerful Russia that may disrupt the balance of power in Central Europe and incite Pan-Slavism within Hapsburg territory. If western powers did not intervene, the Russians would have been at the Gates of Constantinople long ago. Also Iran publishes scientific papers barely above the level of Belgium, an small artificial state in Europe, and Iran is actually one of the two most leading science journal publishers in the Islamic world. And Egypt? An a nation of a hundred million where they have an GDP less than that of the Netherlands, where they dependent on US money to fund their over-bloated military and gulf petro-oil money for food support and to buy grain? LOL! The land of taharush and where 90% of Teenage girls have the vagina butchered for puritanical reasons LMAO

[Heaven]

Would Erdogan eventually leave power? Who succeed him. That Imamgolu guy who won the Istanbul elections? Wouldn't there be a backlash by Islamist or conservatives who received Turkish support in MENA region or Africa (Somalia).

Politics aren't predictable in Turkey. It is not easy to foresee from now

[Jehan]

Because wherever it's present ,primitive races are too...so islam is not the cause ,it's just one more symptom..

So you think it's not islam who tend to transform people into savages.
But savages tend to adopt islamic religion because it fit them better.

You are probably right in some extent.

[VigVagKesalt]

Because wherever it's present ,primitive races are too...so islam is not the cause ,it's just one more symptom..

Geez, you gotta do a DNA test bro. You'd be 70% Syrian-like.

[VigVagKesalt]

It's more of a genetic thing than a religious thing, East Asians have the highest IQ on average and are smarter than any other people on this planet. Protestants are pre-dominantly white North Europeans (Calvinists etc) and they are also higher IQ than other people regardless of ideology/religion, muslims are on average lower IQ because most muslims belong to low IQ race/ancestry. Just like black people belong to a race of pre dominantly low IQ people, black Christians and even Hispanic (Brown) christians can be as backward or more than muslims. So imo it's a matter of genetics and the development of culture surrounding those who adhere and belong to a certain genetic ancestry.

Go tell that to Israel to Israel who are genetically same as Arabs. If there was no Islam the IQ would increase, racial disparities do not exist and ancient Middle Easterners had one of the best civilizations in history.

[KuakoVoice]

Because wherever it's present ,primitive races are too...so islam is not the cause ,it's just one more symptom..

So like Albanian Muslims?🤔

[KuakoVoice]

I would not say that it creates hell on earth. Saudi Arabia is arguably preferable to North Korea for example (unless you are very unconventional, liberal minded woman). But conservative Islamic societies creates a society that arrest development to maintain the status quo and limit innovation to prevent orthodox tenets being violated. After all, Islam is not suppose to be 'corrupted' like Judaism and Christianity, since its the original and un-corrupted religion from God. Its an iconoclastic religion, that discourages representational art and music, two fields of human endeavours that from neo-biological point of view, stimulates human creativity and imagination (look at MRI and glucose brain intake studies). hence why Medieval Islamic anatomy lagged behind Post Renaissance era European anatomy in the age before photographs existed (look Andreas Vesalius fine detailed drawings or the 19th century Gray's Anatomy text-book). I remember in my early childhood in Leicester (an immigrant populated town in the UK) seeing Muslims parents debate about where their children are theologically allowed to watch television or attend class cinema, or attend art and design class since drawing living objects with eyes is considered bad in some hadiths.
Islam also puts a heavy emphasis on route learning (e.g. spending your childhood learning the entire corpus of the Qur'an is idolised) and repetitive rituals such 5 times a day prayer. The repetitive behaviours has a long term effect on the brain. Islam (at least Sunni Islam) also follows the argument form authority fallacy, where a religious Muslim is not suppose to question to much about what Allah has reviled hence it better to suspend your critical faculties than to lose some faith in 'relived truths'. Of course in Islam, knowledge is generally seen as a good thing and is preferred over ignorance e.g. there is a Hadith where the prophet said to seek knowledge as far as China. But if that knowledge contradict scripture that it better to choose scripture over said knowledge for the religion sake, not on the weight of the evidences (for examples, the story of Adam creation vs modern Evolutionary theory). This thinking process will sooner or later class with modernity. This why North East Asians have a easier time with modernisation and handing a complex modern societies and an industrial economy than the MENA region, despite MENAs being geographically, genetically and (arguably) historically closer to Europeans (the first people to create an Industrial society).

Its also why Islam is popular amongst Westerners who either failed in life (Prisoners etc), made unstable choices (e.g. Drug addiction), live unstable lives or feel rootless and alienated from society. For example, Islam became popular in Aframs living in lower income neighbourhoods (by product of jim crow and red-lining) since the 60s because (a) Its more against 'da white man' (b) Its provides more structural stability in their lives (its is a community rife with illegitimacy rates, drug usage, gun violence and discrimination). I mean who is more likely to adopt Islam on a larger scale, a faculty in a leading western university that does research in theoretical physics or evolutionary biology or a prison full of dispossessed minorities with grievances .
Societies that have higher rates of cognition and an advanced material and social culture are less likely to adopt Islam as en-mass or make it a state religion. E.g. Both Sub-Saharan Africans and Han Chinese/North East Asians have been in contact with the Arabs and other Islamized people groups since the high middle ages. The Chinese had contact with Islamic Polities since the Tang Dynasties via conflict like the battle of Talas river or peaceful trade through the silk road that was dominated by Turkics, sogdians and Arabs. Yet it was the Sub-Saharans that a higher rate of voluntary conversion to Islam (nearly half of Africa is Islamic) than North East Asians, with only 0.5 of Han Chinese being Hui.

So then why did relatively civilized South Asians (Pakistan) and Southeast Asians (Malaysia/Indonesia) adopt Islam?

[VigVagKesalt]

To those saying Middle Easterners are racially inferior please look at Israel who is better than all South Euro/East Euro countries and on pair with UK and France. I lived in Israel for a while and they're predominately Middle Eastern. Even Ashkenazim still are Middle Eastern. Is it a coincidence that Israel is better? Is it a coincidence that the only non-Muslim nation in the Middle East is the best one?

No. Reality is very clear: Islam brings backwardness. Period.

[Teutone]

To those saying Middle Easterners are racially inferior please look at Israel who is better than all South Euro/East Euro countries and on pair with UK and France. I lived in Israel for a while and they're predominately Middle Eastern. Even Ashkenazim still are Middle Eastern. Is it a coincidence that Israel is better? Is it a coincidence that the only non-Muslim nation in the Middle East is the best one?

No. Reality is very clear: Islam brings backwardness. Period.

Well Ashkenazi jews are genetically distinguishable from other semitic ethnicities.
A bunch of the greatest minds were and are Ashkenazi jews, Israel profits from them too. But indeed Islam is holding alot of ethnicities back, Persia/Iran would be a great power without it.
I think the biggest problem with Arabs is their culture of Cousin marriage which fucks the gene pool and leads to literal degeneration.

[VigVagKesalt]

Well Ashkenazi jews are genetically distinguishable from other semitic ethnicities.
A bunch of the greatest minds were and are Ashkenazi jews, Israel profits from them too. But indeed Islam is holding alot of ethnicities back, Persia/Iran would be a great power without it.
I think the biggest problem with Arabs is their culture of Cousin marriage which fucks the gene pool and leads to literal degeneration.

They're slightly different from other Semitic ethnicities. According to GEDMatch I'm 13% only different genetically from them. This cousin marriage stuff only happens in Arabia and doesn't happen in the Levant but I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen in Turkey either. Turkey just tried a little bit to get rid of Islam by making their country secular and putting mosques under state control they ended up being second best country in the Middle East and on pair or even better than East Euro countries. There was even some studies about Islam and its effects on IQ.

[Nassbean]

It's more of a genetic thing than a religious thing, East Asians have the highest IQ on average and are smarter than any other people on this planet. Protestants are pre-dominantly white North Europeans (Calvinists etc) and they are also higher IQ than other people regardless of ideology/religion, muslims are on average lower IQ because most muslims belong to low IQ race/ancestry. Just like black people belong to a race of pre dominantly low IQ people, black Christians and even Hispanic (Brown) christians can be as backward or more than muslims. So imo it's a matter of genetics and the development of culture surrounding those who adhere and belong to a certain genetic ancestry.

wtf but aren't you muslim ?

[Adamm]

Go tell that to Israel to Israel who are genetically same as Arabs. If there was no Islam the IQ would increase, racial disparities do not exist and ancient Middle Easterners had one of the best civilizations in history.

The only high IQ Israelis are Ashkenazi Israelis who are pre-dominantly of European (Germanic/Baltic) stock.

[Adamm]

wtf but aren't you muslim ?

Me being muslim doesn't mean I cannot accept facts surrounding race and genetics...

[Nassbean]

Me being muslim doesn't mean I cannot accept facts surrounding race and genetics...

So you admit belonging to an inferior race ? And you admit that you religion is the product of low IQ people ? I wonder what scientific facts back up that kind of claims and what about atheist/agnostic/christian mena people ? MENA people are clearly not genetically/biologically inferior don't take the modern socio-economical context as the ultimate evidence.

[PaleoEuropean]

There is depravity wherever there is man, there is just more where the rule of law is tyranny.

[Adamm]

So you admit belonging to an inferior race ? And you admit that you religion is the product of low IQ people ? I wonder what scientific facts back up that kind of claims and what about atheist/agnostic/christian mena people ? MENA people are clearly not genetically/biologically inferior don't take the modern socio-economical context as the ultimate evidence.

I admit that my race is genetically inferior on average to North European races (shorter height on average, more recessed bone features on average, lower IQ, worse genetic development in comparance with others which could be explained by bad nutrition and the huge practice of endogamy). My religion is not the product of low IQ people though, Islam is the truth and the product of God and its theological structure is developed by very high IQ scholars, people are the masses and they just follow for the sake of following. The elites are always high IQ and better developed than the masses, the masses follow the elites and this is true for all societies. Islam is the product of high IQ elites who have imposed these metaphysical structures upon the people, be it Catholclism or Islam, they are both authentic traditions and always have been product of high IQ elites.

[Teutone]

They're slightly different from other Semitic ethnicities. According to GEDMatch I'm 13% only different genetically from them. This cousin marriage stuff only happens in Arabia and doesn't happen in the Levant but I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen in Turkey either. Turkey just tried a little bit to get rid of Islam by making their country secular and putting mosques under state control they ended up being second best country in the Middle East and on pair or even better than East Euro countries. There was even some studies about Islam and its effects on IQ.

IQ is determined by genetics and cant be influenced by a Religion.

Also Levantines participate in cousin marriage.

Map of cousin marriage percentage by country

https://i.imgur.com/I5dEUIn.png

This tradition gotta stop and Islam gotta be stopped too
It doesnt affect IQ but the access to education,science and critical thought.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Yx8pF8NPTxP-koebRI8sjx0QvfRwhKGCcVX6r7yZExxzZQhQ7tMMoOa_G0IFQ7 _Y_7IeCBWeiE5msMN2mGh9P3f8bzP5lDc5qFJDeOrvAk7K-JMpLOw1pNbnANt58rXtkajaNhIA

Even tho I agree with Adamm that SSA will remain on their level no matter what religion they practize. But Arabs arent stupid.

[Nassbean]

I admit that my race is genetically inferior on average to North European races (shorter height on average, more recessed bone features on average, lower IQ, worse genetic development in comparance with others which could be explained by bad nutrition and the huge practice of endogamy). My religion is not the product of low IQ people though, Islam is the truth and the product of God and its theological structure is developed by very high IQ scholars, people are the masses and they just follow for the sake of following. The elites are always high IQ and better developed than the masses, the masses follow the elites and this is true for all societies. Islam is the product of high IQ elites who have imposed these metaphysical structures upon the people, be it Catholclism or Islam, they are both authentic traditions and always have been product of high IQ elites.

You're confusing the real causes here : have the elites high IQs because they are richer and grew up in the best conditions or because they are genetically superior? Also you contradicted yourself because you imply that all the elites no matter their ethnicity have high IQs so at the end it has nothing to do with genetics. Moreover I don't see why some biological features should be seen as "superior/inferior" it's just a mix of environmental adaptation and sexual selection. Romans themselves in the past talked about how tall germans were but it didn't prevent romans to control one of the biggest empire in history. Also if it's all about civilization why the craddle of it wasn't in north europe ? are you going to say that the ancient egyptian civilization was built by an elite of north european stock ? same for mesopotamia? China ? Rome? Greece? mesoamerica ?

You live in europe and so you meet these people on a daily basis do you really have the impression that they are that different mentally ? In my case not at all they are not impressive to me and I will not even talk at school/university.

[Adamm]

You're confusing the real causes here : have the elites high IQs because they are richer and grew up in the best conditions or because they are genetically superior? Also you contradicted yourself because you imply that all the elites no matter their ethnicity have high IQs so at the end it has nothing to do with genetics. Moreover I don't see why some biological features should be seen as "superior/inferior" it's just a mix of environmental adaptation and sexual selection. Romans themselves in the past talked about how tall germans were but it didn't prevent romans to control one of the biggest empire in history. Also if it's all about civilization why the craddle of it wasn't in north europe ? are you going to say that the ancient egyptian civilization was built by an elite of north european stock ? same for mesopotamia? China ? Rome? Greece? mesoamerica ?

You live in europe and so you meet these people on a daily basis do you really have the impression that they are that different mentally ? In my case not at all they are not impressive to me and I will not even talk at school/university.

Well humans adapt and develop like you said, I believe that the development of Europeans in the last 500 years was way better than other races (in terms of nutrition, breeding and the selection of breeding), maybe I expressed myself poorly. It's much possible that Levantines/Middle Easterners were higher IQ and better developed during cradle of civilization era than the average Europeans, that's a possibility and I'm not denying that. But I'm just speaking from modern basis, for me genetic development manifests itself in the body of the human being:

height
bone structure
IQ

In all 3 of the above we can easily detect that Europeans (Northern Europeans especially) are superior than any other people on this planet, it's something you cannot deny right?

[Teutone]

Well humans adapt and develop like you said, I believe that the development of Europeans in the last 500 years was way better than other races (in terms of nutrition, breeding and the selection of breeding), maybe I expressed myself poorly. It's much possible that Levantines/Middle Easterners were higher IQ and better developed during cradle of civilization era than the average Europeans, that's a possibility and I'm not denying that. But I'm just speaking from modern basis, for me genetic development manifests itself in the body of the human being:

height
bone structure
IQ

In all 3 of the above we can easily detect that Europeans (Northern Europeans especially) are superior than any other people on this planet, it's something you cannot deny right?



North East Asians and Ashkenazi jews have a higher IQ than any European population.

Height? I heard Balkans.

[Nassbean]

Well humans adapt and develop like you said, I believe that the development of Europeans in the last 500 years was way better than other races (in terms of nutrition, breeding and the selection of breeding), maybe I expressed myself poorly. It's much possible that Levantines/Middle Easterners were higher IQ and better developed during cradle of civilization era than the average Europeans, that's a possibility and I'm not denying that. But I'm just speaking from modern basis, for me genetic development manifests itself in the body of the human being:

height
bone structure
IQ

In all 3 of the above we can easily detect that Europeans (Northern Europeans especially) are superior than any other people on this planet, it's something you cannot deny right?

You're talking about economical and cultural development not a genetic one. In less than 500 years it's biologically impossible for anyone to evolve quickly and acquire new genes with such an impact. Also studies show that IQ is determined by the environment and our genes (but this genetic factor isn't specific to some ethnicities it's all about some individuals carrying certain genes ). As for the bone structure and height I don't see what makes it superior that's totally subjective imo

[VigVagKesalt]

The only high IQ Israelis are Ashkenazi Israelis who are pre-dominantly of European (Germanic/Baltic) stock.

This guy is genetically 99.1% Ashkenazi Jewish. Pure Nordid no?
https://www.tubefilter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h3h3productions-ethan-klein.jpg

[Nassbean]

This guy is genetically 99.1% Ashkenazi Jewish. Pure Nordid no?
https://www.tubefilter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h3h3productions-ethan-klein.jpg

Idk why i have the impression that you're a jew hiding behind the palestinian label...

[VigVagKesalt]

Idk why i have the impression that you're a jew hiding behind the palestinian label...

I'm actually an atheist with progressive views. It could give the impression that I'm not a Palestinian since that's a rarity among my people.

[VigVagKesalt]

North East Asians and Ashkenazi jews have a higher IQ than any European population.

Height? I heard Balkans.

Honestly IQ thingy never crossed my mind. For example Cypriots with an IQ of 91 have much better country and live longer than for example Poles with an IQ of 99 or Chinese with 105 IQ.

[Teutone]

This guy is genetically 99.1% Ashkenazi Jewish. Pure Nordid no?
https://www.tubefilter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h3h3productions-ethan-klein.jpg

Genetics are facts and phenotypes are pseudo science, learn that. Phenotypes arent accurate enough to determine genetic background.

[Cumansky]

Genetics are facts and phenotypes are pseudo science, learn that. Phenotypes arent accurate enough to determine genetic background.

Eye sight is a human sense, smarter than computer, people know their race from an eye test, computer genetics can be a manipulation depending on who is running it..

[VigVagKesalt]

....

[Nassbean]

I'm actually an atheist with progressive views. It could give the impression that I'm not a Palestinian since that's a rarity among my people.

hahah no it's not about that but ok

[Dorian]

You're talking about economical and cultural development not a genetic one. In less than 500 years it's biologically impossible for anyone to evolve quickly and acquire new genes with such an impact. Also studies show that IQ is determined by the environment and our genes (but this genetic factor isn't specific to some ethnicities it's all about some individuals carrying certain genes ).

There's no dichotomy there ,both feed from each other...culture/environment define the selection strategies and obviously for dysgenic islam to work out you need the dumbest to reproduce who in turn have higher birth rates ,how do you think this would translate to genetics?

[Teutone]

This guy is genetically 99.1% Ashkenazi Jewish. Pure Nordid no?
https://www.tubefilter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h3h3productions-ethan-klein.jpg

Genetics are facts and phenotypes are pseudo science, learn that. Phenotypes arent accurate enough to determine genetic background.

[Nassbean]

There's no dichotomy there ,both feed from each other...culture/environment define the selection strategies and obviously for dysgenic islam to work out you need the dumbest to reproduce who in turn have higher birth rates ,how do you think this would translate to genetics?

It's not as simple as that and I don't see what's the difference between Islam and christianity when it comes to this topic they both promote reproduction at a high rate. Also Islam have billions of followers from all over the world so statistically I doubt that all of them represent the dumbest people and as I said don't forget the environmental factor so even if only the dumbest reproduce there is still another key factor

[Smeagol]

They're slightly different from other Semitic ethnicities. According to GEDMatch I'm 13% only different genetically from them.

Most Ashkenazi don't even get Palestinians in their top 20 populations on Gedmatch. They're closer to Greeks and Italians than you.

[Ford]

Because such is the nature of the people practicing it, for the most part.

[Dick]

It's more of a genetic thing than a religious thing, East Asians have the highest IQ on average and are smarter than any other people on this planet.

Eating bats is pretty dumb though

[Synapsid]

North East Asians and Ashkenazi jews have a higher IQ than any European population.

Height? I heard Balkans.

Northern Europeans have high Spatial IQ, which is associated with mathematical and logical reasoning (though logic is also dependent on verbal iq).

[Pro.crasti.nation]

Christianity did Latin America and Africa no great favours. Anglican Africans aren't exactly blazing a trail through STEM or the business world.
Christianity seems to be "civilising" only because it is largely associated with Europeans, particularly Brits, Dutch, French and Germans. Nobody would pay it a second thought, if Hungary, Romania, Poland, Spain ... were there references, they're not that far off modern Turkey or Albania.

That said, I think Islam is cancerous. It has fundamental issues that cannot be addressed, due to the existence of hadith and sunnah and the emphasis on "following the example of the prophet". This is especially troublesome, when your prophet engaged in banditry, rape, slavery, murder, suppression of opposition ... You have too many *bad* things being condoned by Islam!

So, you can't change Islam without obviously breaking from the "rightly guided" and the sunnah/hadith. You basically have to do what China is doing, write your own Islam (also, similar to what Gaddafi did, iirc), using force to imprint it upon Muslims and censorship to remove traces of the prior Islam. If I recall correctly, there was a case of this kind of destruction of authentic texts, back when the quran was compiled, with contesting versions of the same verses and surahs being whittled down to an accepted truth.

The basic problems are:
1. Polygamy
2. Prohibition of Interest
3. Rigid gender segregation
4. Daily prayers and ablution
5. The demand that Muslims work towards the creation of a Caliphate
6. The central position of Islam in culture

Basically, Islam is brilliant for creating warriors, but only because it creates sexually frustrated young men, in large numbers.
It is great for elites, as there is much in the hadiths that secures their rule and helps to keep authority beyond question and challenge. As long as you cover yourself in the garb of Islam. There is a massive amount of scholarship in Islam, which immediately elevates it beyond the scope of the ordinary semi-literate follower, and creates a power-dynamic similar to that which existed between priest and laymen, before they democratised Christianity.

Further it condones cruelty and torture, both in the example of the conduct of Mohammed and Allah, and in the "hud" (the chopping of hands, lashes, stoning, etc.). This is obviously bad for generating a high-trust, low anxiety society and the kind of "God" it imprints on the believer, is one that luxuriates in its power and is unabashedly dominant. So, people take example from their God, in how they act in relation to those weaker than them.

And, to cap it all off, the Quran/Allah says that poverty and misfortune are from Allah and present an opportunity for the powerful to bestow their charity upon the poor. That these things are a test for both the rich and the poor. This of course, encourages servility in the lower orders, as they are encouraged to look to the rich/mighty to "help" them, rather than to their own efforts. This also increases the paternalistic self-image in the elite.

Islam is also *very* loud in its celebration of male sexual energies, both in promoting marriage (and procreation, breed more Muslims, Allah will provide!) and in glorifying war and conquest. It sharpens those desires, by allowing for the taking of "booty" in war, from slaves (including concubines) to gold and wealth of the conquered. It encourages the predatory side of the elites, as well as their thirst for war.

And, in the combination of polygamy with rigid gender segregation, corporal punishment for fornication and the elitism that is born out of Islamic scholarship, the culture of Islam produces incels. Men with no understanding of women, or the pleasures of heterosexuality, who visit their urges upon boys (madrassahs are notorious for sodomy), and view women as simply objects that are to be guarded, as their "impurity" confers dishonour upon the guardian. So rape and the opportunity to act predatorily, with the sanction of the state, is an immense opportunity (war!).

Most wars are orgies of rape and banditry anyhow, Islam just happens to create a culture that feeds off and promotes war. With the dysgenic impact of Islamic culture, the need for a "valve" to release that pressure, is Jihad. And this is why Islam is expansionist, so that there can always be a war to fight, to release that sexual/socio-economic frustration.

Given all this, the average Muslim nation has little time to do anything during the day, beyond basic work to feed the belly. Much of the productive day is lost to futile "prayer", to the business of congregating and ritual cleansing (which takes time and imposes mental costs - most men try not to fart or touch anything haram, between prayers, so as to avoid having to do the ablutions again, for the next prayer!). Those that have an aptitude for learning, are channelled towards Islamic scholarship, as this provides a route to financial security, social status and - for the truly intelligent - serious power!
Also, the establishment always need a good school of Islam, to back them and give them the shield of Islamic legitimacy. so there's plenty of money in it, for those with charisma and wit.

The prohibition on interest, hampers large-scale investment from below, relying on only the public works of the state, as corporate loans is hard to raise, if opportunity costs of capital are not acknowledged (interest basically acknowledges that capital has competing opportunities and thus, any investment must offset the potential profits of alternative investments). This hampers the development of a large middle class and keeps things at an almost feudal level. So, market competition is little not non-existent. Innovations are more or less novelties, rather than opportunities for profit, as they are supposed to be in a free market (regulations and corruptions in Western markets exist, that retard innovation, deliberately).

So, most of the males are blue-balled, because the elite can marry 4 wives and keep concubines. They can't even fuck because the girls are all segregated and, if you even got the chance, you'd still have to pray that you don't get caught and whipped/killed. And how are you supposed to raise the money to buy a home or to pay the mahr to marry a girl, if your society is mostly devoting its time to prostrating in congregation and debating the intricacies of living a halal life, in the day-to-day. There are no big businesses to employ you, there is a corrupt elite that eats up the nation's resources but you can't talk about it, because that elite is protected by Islam (and you will be killed if you defy your Islamic authority!).

The best you can hope for, is to go off to fight, make some money, maybe fuck something, if you manage to capture someone ...

[sanhadji]

backwardness is everywhere
muslims are less advanced because they give less importance to money and life on earth that's why they are less ambitious

[Derceto]

It's more of a genetic thing than a religious thing, East Asians have the highest IQ on average and are smarter than any other people on this planet. Protestants are pre-dominantly white North Europeans (Calvinists etc) and they are also higher IQ than other people regardless of ideology/religion, muslims are on average lower IQ because most muslims belong to low IQ race/ancestry. Just like black people belong to a race of pre dominantly low IQ people, black Christians and even Hispanic (Brown) christians can be as backward or more than muslims. So imo it's a matter of genetics and the development of culture surrounding those who adhere and belong to a certain genetic ancestry.

كس اختك على اخت اسلامك !!

עם ישראל חי וקיים 💪🇮🇱

As a Maronite, I have a positive regard for Israel. The mere mention of its existence has the potential to provoke reactions from numerous Muslims globally. It is my belief that aligning with Israel and the United States could be beneficial, with the ultimate goal of fully eradicating Islam from Lebanon.

[Trachian_Nefer]

The problem arises with Salafism and Wahhabism in general, the forms of Islam practiced in the Golden age and before Imam Ghazali implemented his ultraorthodox views were the reason Islam soared in the first place, ever since Ghazali's anti-logic driven viewpoint had come mainstream the Islamic world has been left on the curbside.

[Incal]

Actually Malaysian and Indonesian economies are completely under the control non-Muslim Han. Singapore is also their miracle.
Were it not for American support to Muslim Malays and Austronesian elements in order to counter Chinese effect, the Chinese minorities would also take the control too.

True dat.

[White Swan]

Because they think they can win the birthright back by following the letter of the law to its (unjustifiable) extremes.

[Östsvensk]

It's mainly a combination of a lack of literacy and book production (Muslim authorities banned the printing press after its invention, so basically Islam doesn't promote critical thinking to say the least), possibly unnecessarily high rates of violence, and economy.

Further reading (originally posted by Tooting Carmen): https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-the-west