PDA

View Full Version : France eyes more deficit cuts as ratings eyed



The Lawspeaker
08-12-2011, 06:29 PM
France eyes more deficit cuts as ratings eyed

(Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Wednesday ordered his finance and budget ministers to find new ways to prune the public deficit as markets fretted over the country's strained finances and banks in the wake of a U.S. debt downgrade.

Shares in French banks -- among the most exposed to Italian and other peripheral euro zone government debt -- tumbled in afternoon trade as fears about the currency bloc's debt crisis moved back to the forefront of investor concerns.

Sarkozy, who played a leading role in frantic diplomacy over the weekend aimed at halting two weeks of market turmoil, had earlier summoned his top ministers and central bank chief to emergency talks, interrupting the summer recess.

He urged French political parties to support his proposal for a constitutional rule to limit future deficits which is set to be defeated if put to a special two-chamber parliamentary vote.

Budget Minister Valerie Pecresse said after the talks she would target tax loopholes in the 2012 budget.

"We will not deviate one inch from our deficit-cutting targets," she told BFM television.

France -- the most indebted of the euro zone's six AAA-rated states -- has vowed to cut its deficit to 4.6 percent of GDP next year and 3 percent in 2013, down from 7.1 percent in 2010 and an expected 5.7 percent this year.

Yet its public debt, at around 85 percent this year, is well above the euro zone's recommended 60 percent of GDP ceiling and the market turmoil deals a blow to hopes investment will pick up after a bleak second quarter.

Sarkozy asked Pecresse and Finance Minister Francois Baroin to outline suggestions to speed up deficit cuts at an upcoming August 17 meeting with Prime Minister Francois Fillon. A further meeting on August 24 will formally agree on the steps.

"Whatever the impact of global uncertainty, of the announcement of the U.S. downgrade by S&P, the nervousness of markets -- regardless of any of these external parameters, we will take the necessary measures to reach our targets," Baroin told reporters after the meeting.



DIVE

The three major rating agencies reaffirmed France's AAA rating on Wednesday, and said its outlook was stable, but markets remain concerned that French banks are among the most exposed to a worsening of Europe's government debt crisis.

"The pressure was there before the U.S. downgrade. France is the euro zone's second leg. if it stumbles the bloc will really start to limp," said Jean-Christophe Caffet, an economist at Natixis.

Volatile trading in shares of Societe Generale and other French banks on Wednesday appeared to be inflamed by a perfect storm of rumors fueled by Twitter postings, market blogs and a now debunked newspaper report.

Shares of Societe Generale plummeted as much as 23 percent before trimming some losses to end 14.7 percent lower on the day. BNP Paribas dove 9.5 percent.

Sarkozy was at the center of a July 21 agreement among euro zone leaders to give the EFSF rescue fund the power to buy sovereign bonds on the secondary market and aid Greece with a new multibillion-euro bailout.

With the opposition Socialist Party on board, parliament should pass the resulting adjustments to the 2011 budget at special sessions on September 6-7 -- tacking an extra 15 billion euros onto France's public debt by 2014, equivalent to adding 0.75 percentage point to the debt-to-GDP ratio.

Lawmakers on the left, however, have vowed to block Sarkozy's proposal for a constitutional "debt brake" if it goes to a two-chamber vote in coming weeks, part of the jockeying for political position ahead of a 2012 presidential election.

The Socialists oppose tampering with the Constitution, noting the reform would have limited impact as numerical deficit ceilings would be set by particular governments anyway.

Markets, however, see the constitutional move as symbolic of France's commitment to fiscal prudence and some analysts fear that rating agencies could use a failure of the initiative to put France on negative outlook, or on review for a possible downgrade.

The strident head of Sarkozy's conservative UMP party, Jean-Francois Cope, told Le Figaro in an interview to be published on Thursday that 90 countries already had such a debt control rule. He challenged the left to sign up or stand accused of sacrificing France's interests for the sake of party politics.

France has not produced a balanced budget since 1974, but like others in the euro zone, is struggling with low growth. Data on Friday is expected to show the economy expanded just 0.2 percent in the second quarter.

Government officials have already said they will try to squeeze at least 3 billion euros in extra revenues from the 2012 budget, to be debated from September. The Senate finance committee is eyeing between 5 and 10 billion.

With an election just eight months away, Sarkozy will steer clear of broad tax hikes, but a group of advisors have suggested slapping new taxes on the super-rich or nudging up value-added taxes from the current rate of 19.6 percent.

To avoid touching the overall rate, the group suggests raising the reduced VAT rate of 5.5 percent, applied to restaurants and labor-intensive services like home repairs, to 8 percent and also setting higher rates for some luxury goods.


Source: Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/10/us-crisis-idUSL6E7J707B20110810) (10 august 2011)

The Lawspeaker
08-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Lovely. We have to pay for their farmers and soon we'll have to bail out the rest of the garlic-munchers too. :rolleyes2:

Treffie
08-13-2011, 07:21 AM
Data on Friday is expected to show the economy expanded just 0.2 percent in the second quarter.

French growth was 0.00% the last quarter, worse than expected.

Agrippa
08-13-2011, 08:07 AM
Lovely. We have to pay for their farmers and soon we'll have to bail out the rest of the garlic-munchers too. :rolleyes2:

If France goes down, most likely there will be no EU any more and if, it would be or become a quite different one. And of course, the economic-financial situation of MANY STATES might be horrible then already, I'm not sure how many would be spared, with or without having to pay for other's debts.

Fact is, this whole system is and always was a scam and freak of the money lenders!

The Plutocracy build itself up on the debts and interest rates of the common people, the workers and entrepreneurs, as well as the states, because this money system is nothing else but the privilege of printing money for some, while even the state has to pay interest for it to foreign, private bankers and others interested and wealthy enough!

This news just point to one crucial aspect: The anticipatory obedience of "our" political class to "the markets" (= Capitalism), bankers and the ruling Plutocracy.

Fact is, many countries being already starved to death, because they don't use new credits, new money for real investment any more, but just for paying the structures, often very one sided and harmful ones actually, just their to spread the Liberalist and Cultural Marxist disease, and for paying the interest rates!

Just think about how much tax money ALL STATES have to pay for simply paying their usual bills, including INTEREST RATE!

And how much money most states had to spend to keep their population stable and relatively wealthy in a crisis largely caused by speculators and banks again!

The people and economies being raped 3 times a day minimum by the Financial Oligarchy in various ways and the only result of all this is that the Europeans hack on each other, agree to asocial and destructive Neoliberal measures and don't really care for the longer term future at all - because the longer term future WILL HAVE to mean that this financial and money system must be abandoned!

The question is just, who will make it and how - and our task is to prevent the Plutocracy from doing it, gaining even more profits from and power over the people in the next financial-economic cycle which will come, because that would be complete slavery and dependence on this "chosen few" Plutocrats and no chance for recovering from the mess already done in the last decades for Europeans in particular.

The problem is not even just the prospect of a global government, but the way how it will come into existence and the character it will have - because of going on like that, the spirit of ruthless money lenders, this petty minded profit-oriented bankers will control it all and make it "their New World Order".

Treffie
08-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Lovely. We have to pay for their farmers and soon we'll have to bail out the rest of the garlic-munchers too. :rolleyes2:

It's shameful that French farmers are by far the most heavily subsidised group in the EU.

Germanicus
08-13-2011, 07:50 PM
It's shameful that French farmers are by far the most heavily subsidised group in the EU.


You do not understand European farm subsidies rules, if the French farmers were not subsidised they would flood the rest of europe with a mountain of products, this would end up upsetting the apple cart so to speak by undercutting the rest of europes farmers. . . . .that means curtains for our farmers. . . . Get it?

The Lawspeaker
08-13-2011, 07:57 PM
You do not understand European farm subsidies rules, if the French farmers were not subsidised they would flood the rest of europe with a mountain of products, this would end up upsetting the apple cart so to speak by undercutting the rest of europes farmers. . . . .that means curtains for our farmers. . . . Get it?
No they are subsidised to produce worthless stuff that ends up at the scrapheap (take for instance surplus wine) while if they wouldn't be subsidised they would be forced to look for new ideas that the market actually needs.

Not just that: it actually hurts small farmers in France as well. As most money goes to the big guys.

I remember watching a program on TV where it was stated that French viticulturists in the Rhone Valley were having trouble maintaining their traditional crop as the climate in that region was changing (probably a Global Warming-scare story) and that they needed subsidy in order to find scientific ways to keep their crop while my idea is that maybe those people in the Rhone Valley should look for other things to produce. Can't they grow grains, vegetables or even things like almonds, olives or in the lower areas rice ? For short: can't they diversify their crops ?

Ouistreham
08-13-2011, 09:13 PM
It's shameful that French farmers are by far the most heavily subsidised group in the EU.
Bollocks, mate. French agricultural turnover is about four times larger than UK's but gets little more than double as much subsidies than the UK.

In other words, the EU agricultural policy supports inefficient British farmers (without mentioning the famous UK rebate).


Lovely. We have to pay for their farmers and soon we'll have to bail out the rest of the garlic-munchers too. :rolleyes2:
Caution, friendly fire! French per capita garlic consumption is among the world's lowest. Much lower than in Spain, Italy or Greece, but also lower than British, Dutch and American figures.


I remember watching a program on TV where it was stated that French viticulturists in the Rhone Valley were having trouble maintaining their traditional crop as the climate in that region was changing (probably a Global Warming-scare story) and that they needed subsidy in order to find scientific ways to keep their crop while my idea is that maybe those people in the Rhone Valley should look for other things to produce. Can't they grow grains, vegetables or even things like almonds, olives or in the lower areas rice ? For short: can't they diversify their crops ?
This is a big problem indeed. Agricultural productions in Southern France are inherently uncompetitive because Spanish and Italian Mediterranean fruits and vegetables are ripe weeks ahead of ours with higher yields per acre, and consequently grab all of the market, even in France. Furthermore French groves are often laid waste by freak cold waves (which makes impossible to set up viable olive productions). Really big problem. EU agricultural subsidies and open borders policy are a blessing for our potatoe and wheat productions, but it's the ruin of our Mediterranean agriculture.

Agrippa
08-13-2011, 09:26 PM
Also in time of crisis, if thinking European wide economically, being as independent as possible, with an own agricultural production, even if that means at times overproduction and subsidies, is an asset which shouldn't be destroyed in a careless way...

Germanicus
08-14-2011, 12:18 PM
Common Agricultural Policy


The CAP is often explained as the result of a political compromise between France and Germany: German industry would have access to the French market; in exchange, Germany would help pay for France's farmers. Germany is still the largest net contributor into the EU budget; however, as of 2005 France is also a net contributor and the more agriculture-focused Spain, Greece and Portugal are the biggest beneficiaries. Meanwhile particularly urbanised member states where agriculture compromises only a very small part of the economy such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom are much smaller beneficiaries and the CAP is often unpopular with the national governments. Transitional rules apply to the newly admitted member states which limit the subsidies which they currently receive.
Objectives Sectors covered by the CAP
The common agricultural policy price intervention covers only certain agricultural products:

cereal, rice, potatoes
oil
dried fodder
milk and milk products, wine, honey
beef and veal, poultry meat and eggs, pig meat, sheep / lamb meat and goat meat
sugar
fruit and vegetables
cotton
peas, field beans
sweet lupins
olives
seed flax
silkworms
fibre flax
hemp
tobacco
hops
seeds
flowers and live plants
animal feed stuffs
The coverage of products in the external trade regime is more extensive than the coverage of the CAP regime. This is to limit competition between EU products and alternative external goods (for example, lychee juice could potentially compete with orange juice).
The initial objectives were set out in Article 39 of the Treaty of Rome:

1.to increase productivity, by promoting technical progress and ensuring the optimum use of the factors of production, in particular labour;
2.to ensure a fair standard of living for the agricultural Community;
3.to stabilise markets;
4.to secure availability of supplies;

As you can see objective 3/ stabilise markets.

Albion
08-17-2011, 09:30 PM
Lovely. We have to pay for their farmers and soon we'll have to bail out the rest of the garlic-munchers too. :rolleyes2:

Lol, apparently you're distributionist.

The Lawspeaker
08-17-2011, 09:31 PM
Lol, apparently you're distributionist.
Distributism is no communism. Distributism means that the means of production are to be spread throughout society. That doesn't mean hand-outs. That means giving them the tools to work.

Albion
08-17-2011, 09:37 PM
Distributism is no communism. Distributism means that the means of production are to be spread throughout society. That doesn't mean hand-outs. That means giving them the tools to work.


I see. That sounds like a good idea. I'd like to return to my family's recent farming roots myself,I haven't the money to rent let alone buy land or stock yet though but one day...
The problem with society today is that we value lawyers, bankers and CEOs above farmers, manufacturers and small traders, the people we really need.