Do you consider Palestinians to be indigenous genetically or no?

[VigVagKesalt]

<h2>Discussion</h2>
<p>I'll add here some samples for comparison with Lebanese Christians whom everyone consider to be indigenous.</p>

<table style="width:100%"><caption>Eurogenes K15 Top 5 Matches:</caption><tr><th>Palestinian</th><th>Lebanese Christian</th></tr><tr><td>3.45540157 Samaritan</td><td>6.22398586 Lebanese_Druze</td></tr><tr><td>7.56075393 Lebanese_Christian</td><td>7.45896776 Samaritan</td></tr><tr><td>8.66321534 Lebanese_Muslim</td><td>7.56075393 Palestinian</td></tr><tr><td>9.20517246 Syrian</td><td>7.73871436 Lebanese_Muslim</td></tr><tr><td>10.11492956 Lebanese_Druze</td><td>9.18185167 Cypriot</td></tr></table>

<hr>

<table style="width:100%"><caption>Eurogenes K13 Top 5 Matches:</caption><tr><th>Palestinian</th><th>Lebanese Christian</th></tr><tr><td>4.45583887 Jordanian</td><td>3.81540299 Samaritan</td></tr><tr><td>7.65989556 Samaritan</td><td>6.97043758 Lebanese_Druze</td></tr><tr><td>8.62777492 Bedouin</td><td>9.17162472 Lebanese_Muslim</td></tr><tr><td>8.84711817 Syrian</td><td>9.54090667 Palestinian</td></tr><tr><td>9.54090667 Lebanese_Christian</td><td>10.12118570 Cyprian</td></tr></table>

[VigVagKesalt]

....

[VigVagKesalt]

bump

[Mortimer]

Yes they are indigenous and should have their rights.

[Adamastor]

I think GEDmatch isn't the best way to measure this. But from what I saw until now, West Bank Palestinians are mainly native Levantines while Gazans seem to be mixed with Egyptians.

[VigVagKesalt]

I think GEDmatch isn't the best way to measure this. But from what I saw until now, West Bank Palestinians are mainly native Levantines while Gazans seem to be mixed with Egyptians.

What about Palestinian Christians?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238471-Palestinian-Christian-DNA-Gedmatch
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?271583-Palestinian-Christian-GEDMatch-result

[Dick]

The Samaritans and Druze are mixed with ancient Greek Colonists aka the Aramaeans.

[samario]

Some Muslim Palestinians are very mixed with Gulf Arabs.

[VigVagKesalt]

The Samaritans and Druze are mixed with ancient Greek Colonists aka the Aramaeans.

Well Samaritans are basically the ancient Jews.

[samario]

The Samaritans and Druze are mixed with ancient Greek Colonists aka the Aramaeans.

By the way, Israel just recognised the Arameans as an ethnic group with their own religion and language. So now they make up a distinct bunch apart from Muslim Arabs.

Are Christians (Arameans) in Israel and the West Bank mixed with Greeks? :O

I'm part Sephardic or Converso or Aramean (not sure yet) as far as I know.

[samario]

What about Palestinian Christians?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238471-Palestinian-Christian-DNA-Gedmatch
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?271583-Palestinian-Christian-GEDMatch-result

Palestinian Christians are eligible for Aramean identity.

[Dick]

Well Samaritans are basically the ancient Jews.


By the way, Israel just recognised the Arameans as an ethnic group with their own religion and language. So now they make up a distinct bunch apart from Muslim Arabs.

Are Christians (Arameans) in Israel and the West Bank mixed with Greeks? :O

I'm part Sephardic or Aramean (not sure yet) as far as I know.

It's just my theory. Northern Egyptians were probably mixed with Greek colonists, same goes for Sicily and other areas of the Mediterranean including the Black Sea coast off Ukraine.

[Aileron]

Yes they are

[Adamastor]

The Samaritans and Druze are mixed with ancient Greek Colonists aka the Aramaeans.

They may have, but their results are typical Levantine results. The Levantines with the most probability of having European blood are the Muslims.

Druze

Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 46.59
2 West_Asian 18.47
3 West_Med 14.98
4 Red_Sea 10.12
5 Atlantic 3.8
6 North_Sea 2.98
7 Northeast_African 1.82
8 Southeast_Asian 0.86
9 South_Asian 0.36
10 Eastern_Euro 0.03

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Christian 4.54
2 Samaritan 4.71
3 Cyprian 7.43
4 Lebanese_Druze 7.59
5 Lebanese_Muslim 8.78
6 Palestinian 10.02
7 Syrian 10.09
8 Jordanian 11.27
9 Kurdish_Jewish 11.6
10 Tunisian_Jewish 12.01
11 Libyan_Jewish 12.02
12 Iranian_Jewish 13.2
13 Assyrian 14.61
14 Sephardic_Jewish 14.86
15 Algerian_Jewish 15.21
16 Italian_Jewish 15.38
17 Bedouin 16.34
18 Georgian_Jewish 18.65
19 South_Italian 19.01
20 Egyptian 20.29

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.7% Lebanese_Christian + 7.3% Sardinian @ 2.86
2 78.3% Lebanese_Christian + 21.7% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.2
3 82.5% Lebanese_Christian + 17.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.26
4 82.8% Lebanese_Christian + 17.2% Italian_Jewish @ 3.3
5 80.5% Lebanese_Christian + 19.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.58
6 87.3% Lebanese_Christian + 12.7% South_Italian @ 3.63
7 70.7% Lebanese_Christian + 29.3% Cyprian @ 3.66
8 94.1% Lebanese_Christian + 5.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.67
9 89.9% Lebanese_Christian + 10.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.68
10 94.2% Lebanese_Christian + 5.8% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.68
11 94.2% Lebanese_Christian + 5.8% Portuguese @ 3.69
12 93.2% Lebanese_Christian + 6.8% North_Italian @ 3.69
13 94.8% Lebanese_Christian + 5.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.7
14 94.7% Lebanese_Christian + 5.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.7
15 84.7% Lebanese_Christian + 15.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.71
16 94.5% Lebanese_Christian + 5.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.71
17 94.5% Lebanese_Christian + 5.5% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.72
18 94.3% Lebanese_Christian + 5.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.72
19 92% Lebanese_Christian + 8% Tuscan @ 3.73
20 94.4% Lebanese_Christian + 5.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.73

Muslims

Eurogenes K13 (I don't have their kits)

Sunni, Tripoli


Population Percent
1 East_Med 40.4
2 West_Asian 22.42
3 West_Med 15.82
4 Red_Sea 8.82
5 North_Atlantic 6.81
6 Baltic 2.11
7 Northeast_African 1.91
6 South_Asian. 1.12
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Sub-Saharan 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 3.12
2 Lebanese_Muslim 3.48
3 Syrian 7.06
4 Lebanese_Christian 8.45
5 Samaritan 9.37
6 Lebanese_Druze 9.65
7 Tunisian_Jewish 10.41
8 Kurdish_Jewish 10.53
9 Libyan_Jewish 10.67
10 Sephardic_Jewish 11.24
11 Iranian_Jewish 11.94
12 Assyrian 12.07
13 Turkish 12.32
14 Italian_Jewish 13.08
15 Algerian_Jewish 13.21
16 South_Italian 13.29
17 Jordanian 13.46
18 Georgian_Jewish 13.89
19 Ashkenazi 14.02
20 Armenian 14.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 39.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.26
2 57.1% Italian_Jewish + 42.9% Assyrian @ 2.49
3 56.4% Libyan_Jewish + 43.6% Armenian @ 2.83
4 90.8% Cyprian + 9.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.95
5 56.3% Tunisian_Jewish + 43.7% Assyrian @ 2.98
6 62.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 37.6% Assyrian @ 3.03
7 59.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.10
8 88.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 11.4% Georgian @ 3.17
9 52.1% Italian_Jewish + 47.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.21
10 87.3% Lebanese_Christian + 12.7% Tuscan @ 3.22
11 91.3% Samaritan + 8.7% French @ 3.26
12 86.5% Cyprian + 13.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.28
13 79.7% Samaritan + 20.3% South_Italian @ 3.32
14 93.1% Samaritan + 6.9% Southwest_French @ 3.35
15 51.7% Assyrian + 48.3% Lybian_Jewish @ 3.36
16 53.2% Assyrian + 46.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.39
17 94.2% Cyprian + 5.8% Saudi @ 3.42
18 81.5% Cyprian + 18.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.47
19 89% Lebanese_Muslim + 11% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.51
20 50.6% Georgian_Jewish + 49.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.53



Shiite, half Tyre half Byblos

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 46.72
2 West_Asian 19.65
3 West_Med 15.19
4 Red_Sea 9.24
5 North_Atlantic 4.36
6 South_Asian 1.92
7 Northeast_African 1.58
8 Baltic 1.13
9 Siberian 0.2
10 Sub-Saharan 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Christian 2.47
2 Lebanese_Muslim 4.28
3 Cyprian 6.21
4 Lebanese_Druze 7.23
5 Syrian 7.47
6 Samaritan 7.65
7 Jordanian 9.74
8 Palestinian 10.17
9 Tunisian_Jewish 11.22
10 Kurdish_Jewish 11.29
11 Assyrian 12.44
12 Lybian_Jewish 13.32
13 Iranian_Jewish 13.51
14 Sephardic_Jewish 13.55
15 Algerian_Jewish 15.34
16 Turkish 15.79
17 Georgian_Jewish 15.87
18 Italian_Jewish 16.21
19 Armenian 16.38
20 South_Italian 16.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.8% Lebanese_Christian + 2.2% French @ 1.98
2 84.2% Lebanese_Christian + 15.8% Cyprian @ 2.26
3 88% Lebanese_Muslim + 12% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.67
4 90.7% Samaritan + 9.3% Tuscan @ 2.69
5 88.6% Samaritan + 11.4% Italian_Jewish @ 2.80
6 85.1% Samaritan + 14.9% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.82
7 89.8% Samaritan + 10.2% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.83
8 61.2% Samaritan + 38.8% Cyprian @ 3.09
9 96.3% Lebanese_Christian + 3.7% North_Italian @ 3.17
10 97.9% Lebanese_Christian + 2.1% Southwest_French @ 3.19
11 84.7% Lebanese_Christian + 15.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.21
12 77.7% Lebanese_Christian + 22.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.22
13 92.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 7.8% Samaritan @ 3.35
14 77% Lebanese_Muslim + 23% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.39
15 88.7% Lebanese_Druze + 11.2% Samaritan @ 3.43
16 95.1% Samaritan + 4.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.46
17 95.7% Samaritan + 4.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.49
18 96.8% Lebanese_Christian + 3.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.52
19 91.4% Syrian + 8.6% Samaritan @ 3.57
20 92.7% Syrian + 7.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.61

[VigVagKesalt]

They may have, but their results are typical Levantine results. The Levantines with the most probability of having European blood are the Muslims.

Well I'm Palestinian of Muslim descent and I get some European, although irreligious right now.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 40.1
2 West_Asian 16.87
3 Red_Sea 12.99
4 West_Med 11.59
5 Baltic 6.54
6 Atlantic 4.24
7 Northeast_African 3.52
8 Eastern_Euro 2.4
9 North_Sea 1.37
10 South_Asian 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 6.7
2 Samaritan 7
3 Lebanese_Muslim 7.26
4 Jordanian 7.83
5 Palestinian 8.16
6 Cyprian 8.17
7 Lebanese_Christian 8.96
8 Tunisian_Jewish 10.18
9 Libyan_Jewish 11.19
10 Turkish 11.41
11 Lebanese_Druze 11.53
12 Sephardic_Jewish 12.77
13 Kurdish_Jewish 13.38
14 Iranian_Jewish 13.42
15 Algerian_Jewish 13.91
16 Italian_Jewish 14.13
17 Ashkenazi 14.24
18 Assyrian 16.27
19 Egyptian 16.77
20 South_Italian 16.87

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.2% Samaritan + 10.8% Lithuanian @ 2.93
2 88.2% Samaritan + 11.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.99
3 88.4% Samaritan + 11.6% Southwest_Russian @ 3.07
4 88.8% Samaritan + 11.2% Belorussian @ 3.08
5 88.5% Samaritan + 11.5% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.09
6 88.9% Samaritan + 11.1% Estonian_Polish @ 3.11
7 89% Samaritan + 11% Erzya @ 3.32
8 88.9% Samaritan + 11.1% Polish @ 3.42
9 88.4% Samaritan + 11.6% South_Polish @ 3.45
10 88.2% Samaritan + 11.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.45
11 89.1% Samaritan + 10.9% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.48
12 88.5% Samaritan + 11.5% Ukrainian @ 3.51
13 89.7% Samaritan + 10.3% Estonian @ 3.52
14 87.2% Samaritan + 12.8% Croatian @ 3.63
15 86.6% Samaritan + 13.4% Moldavian @ 3.68
16 83.3% Samaritan + 16.7% Bulgarian @ 3.96
17 90% Samaritan + 10% La_Brana-1 @ 4
18 89.9% Samaritan + 10.1% East_Finnish @ 4
19 84.4% Samaritan + 15.6% Romanian @ 4.03
20 87.9% Samaritan + 12.1% Hungarian @ 4.11

[VigVagKesalt]

Palestinian Christians are eligible for Aramean identity.

Pali Christians aren't even Arameans they're Christian Hebrews. They cluster close to Samaritans.

[VigVagKesalt]

They may ha

Sry I forgot to say originally from West Bank so yeah.

[samario]

Pali Christians aren't even Arameans they're Christian Hebrews. They cluster close to Samaritans.

Arameans in Israel (Arabic: آراميون‎, Hebrew: ארמים‎, Aramaic: ܐܪ̈ܡܝܐ‎) are a Christian minority residing in Israel who identify as Arameans, Syriac-Arameans or Syriacs. They are claiming descent from a Northwest Semitic people who originated in what is now western, southern and central Syria region (Biblical Aram) during the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age and until first centuries CE.[3]

Some Syriac Christians in the Middle East espouse an Aramean ethnic identity and a minority in Syria still speak a Western Aramaic language, although the Eastern Aramaic languages are far more widely spoken. Most of the Aramaeans in Israel are Maronites.[4] Until 2014, self-identified Arameans in Israel used to be registered as ethnic Arabs or without ethnic identity. However, since September 2014, Christian families or clans who can speak Aramaic and/or have an Aramaic family tradition are eligible to register as ethnic Arameans in Israel.[5]

The first person to receive the "Aramean" ethnic status in Israel was 2 year old Yaakov Halul in Jish on October 20, 2014.[6] In July, the estimated number of Israeli Christians eligible to register as Arameans in Israel to be 120,000.

----------

Don't know about Arameans being an ethnicity. Israeli Christians (including those in the West Bank) remain close to their Israelite roots, true. They have very little admixture, same applies to Samaritans. They don't tend to score Greek ancestry, some might have a sizeable Crusader input? I haven't seen the first sample where this occurs, though.

They are eligible for Aramean identity though, mainly because they are Christian and some of them even speak Aramaic. There's even a new movement seeking to part ways between the Muslim and Christian populations of Israel/West Bank. Beit Jala is one of those heavily Christian populated tows, by the way, as is Jish in Northern Israel and as used to be Bethlehem. I wish Bethlehem would turn back to how it used to be before the massive Muslim refugee influx.

[Kamal900]

They're genetically are with significant Arabian and Egyptian admixtures for Palestinian Muslims. The Christians are genetically the purest among Palestinian Arabs since they cluster very closely with Samaritans.

[Kamal900]

Palestinian Christians are eligible for Aramean identity.

Mostly the Maronites, but most Palestinian Christians are of Greek Othrodox and Catholic sects. The Aramaean ethnic identity is independent from religion which is true for Arab since many self declared Arameans in villages like Ma3loola and etc are muslims and all in Syria. Here's Ahmad al-Jallad's article on the history of the Arabic language:
https://www.academia.edu/38100372/Al-Jallad._A_Manual_of_the_Historical_Grammar_of_Arab ic

And about my stance in Trump's deal, it's a joke of the century, and really, the only thing that Palestinians should do is to advocate for a one state solution where both Palestinians and Jews have equal rights and etc under Israel which is the most realistic solution to the conflict.

[Synapsid]

Well I'm Palestinian of Muslim descent and I get some European, although irreligious right now.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 40.1
2 West_Asian 16.87
3 Red_Sea 12.99
4 West_Med 11.59
5 Baltic 6.54
6 Atlantic 4.24
7 Northeast_African 3.52
8 Eastern_Euro 2.4
9 North_Sea 1.37
10 South_Asian 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 6.7
2 Samaritan 7
3 Lebanese_Muslim 7.26
4 Jordanian 7.83
5 Palestinian 8.16
6 Cyprian 8.17
7 Lebanese_Christian 8.96
8 Tunisian_Jewish 10.18
9 Libyan_Jewish 11.19
10 Turkish 11.41
11 Lebanese_Druze 11.53
12 Sephardic_Jewish 12.77
13 Kurdish_Jewish 13.38
14 Iranian_Jewish 13.42
15 Algerian_Jewish 13.91
16 Italian_Jewish 14.13
17 Ashkenazi 14.24
18 Assyrian 16.27
19 Egyptian 16.77
20 South_Italian 16.87

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.2% Samaritan + 10.8% Lithuanian @ 2.93
2 88.2% Samaritan + 11.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.99
3 88.4% Samaritan + 11.6% Southwest_Russian @ 3.07
4 88.8% Samaritan + 11.2% Belorussian @ 3.08
5 88.5% Samaritan + 11.5% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.09
6 88.9% Samaritan + 11.1% Estonian_Polish @ 3.11
7 89% Samaritan + 11% Erzya @ 3.32
8 88.9% Samaritan + 11.1% Polish @ 3.42
9 88.4% Samaritan + 11.6% South_Polish @ 3.45
10 88.2% Samaritan + 11.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.45
11 89.1% Samaritan + 10.9% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.48
12 88.5% Samaritan + 11.5% Ukrainian @ 3.51
13 89.7% Samaritan + 10.3% Estonian @ 3.52
14 87.2% Samaritan + 12.8% Croatian @ 3.63
15 86.6% Samaritan + 13.4% Moldavian @ 3.68
16 83.3% Samaritan + 16.7% Bulgarian @ 3.96
17 90% Samaritan + 10% La_Brana-1 @ 4
18 89.9% Samaritan + 10.1% East_Finnish @ 4
19 84.4% Samaritan + 15.6% Romanian @ 4.03
20 87.9% Samaritan + 12.1% Hungarian @ 4.11

This is the result of Steppe Ancestry in the Bronze age, not crusaders.

[Kamal900]

This is the result of Steppe Ancestry in the Bronze age, not crusaders.

Basically this.

[Synapsid]

They're genetically are with significant Arabian and Egyptian admixtures for Palestinian Muslims. The Christians are genetically the purest among Palestinian Arabs since they cluster very closely with Samaritans.

You are back here again!

[Kamal900]

You are back here again!

Yeah. Loki forgiven me and I promised to him that I wouldn't be talking anything related to religion ever again, so it's all good :)

[Synapsid]

Basically this.

I am suprised by his results tho. Surely waves of migrations from the Araemians, Egyptians, Persians, Romans and Greeks and arabs should have diluted out that mitanni/steppe ancestry.

[Kamal900]

I am suprised by his results tho. Surely waves of migrations from the Araemians, Egyptians, Persians, Romans and Greeks and arabs should have diluted out that mitanni/steppe ancestry.

Well, there were no population displacement in Palestine as what some Zionists like to claim, so it's no biggie for us to have steppe ancestry in our genepool really. In G25, Palestinian Muslim average are more than 65% Lebanese Christian, 20% Egyptian and the rest is mostly Arabian with some Black admixtures. Pali Christians are genetically pure.

[Synapsid]

Well, there were no population displacement in Palestine as what some Zionists like to claim, so it's no biggie for us to have steppe ancestry in our genepool really. In G25, Palestinian Muslim average are more than 65% Lebanese Christian, 20% Egyptian and the rest is mostly Arabian with some Black admixtures. Pali Christians are genetically pure.

Do you find it cool to have ancient Egyptian ancestry?

[Kamal900]

Do you find it cool to have ancient Egyptian ancestry?

Pretty much, yeah. I mean ancient Egypt is one of the world's most ancient and unique civilizations in history, and it's well known that ancient Egyptians are genetically very well affiliated to Palestinians other than their modern day descendants.

[VigVagKesalt]

Basically this.


This is the result of Steppe Ancestry in the Bronze age, not crusaders.

I have blue eyes. Is it coming from Steppe thing? I heard blue eyed people have one origin.

[Synapsid]

Pretty much, yeah. I mean ancient Egypt is one of the world's most ancient and unique civilizations in history, and it's well known that ancient Egyptians are genetically very well affiliated to Palestinians other than their modern day descendants.

Yeah, the Egyptians were old stock levantines, before there was mass migrations of Iranian farmers and Anatolians in the Levant along with minor steppe.

[Kamal900]

Yeah, the Egyptians were old stock levantines, before there was mass migrations of Iranian farmers and Anatolians in the Levant along with minor steppe.

Indeed. The ancient Canaanites from Early Bronze age Jordan were genetically very similar to Egyptians and Arabians while the later Canaanites were different because of these migrations to the region from Iran and Turkey which made them shift to west asia.

[Synapsid]

I have blue eyes. Is it coming from Steppe thing? I heard blue eyed people have one origin.

Blue eyes existed in the Levant before the emergence of Steppe ancestry. see the study Ancient DNA from Chalcolithic Israel (Harney et al. 2018). They have SNP associated with blue eyes. Chacolithic Levantines were 57% Levantine Neolithic (old stock levatines), 26% Anatolian farmers and 17% Iran_CHl (copper age Iranians). But Bronze age levantines replaced chacolithic Levantines, possibly the first Semitic speakers.

[Synapsid]

Indeed. The ancient Canaanites from Early Bronze age Jordan were genetically very similar to Egyptians and Arabians while the later Canaanites were different because of these migrations to the region from Iran and Turkey which made them shift to west asia.

The shift started before the bronze age. The first semites were peobably Levant_N + Iran_Chl, hence why the J1-p58 became associated with Semites, the J1 came from West Asians. But the Proto-Afro Asiatics were probably old stock levantines and likely were E1b1b1

[Hajimurad]

Pretty much, yeah. I mean ancient Egypt is one of the world's most ancient and unique civilizations in history, and it's well known that ancient Egyptians are genetically very well affiliated to Palestinians other than their modern day descendants.

What's your opinion on Rivka Shpak-Lissak's book "When and How the Jewish Majority in the Land of Israel Was Eliminated: Are the Palestinians Descendants of Islamized Jews"?
According to her Palestinian Christians descended chiefly from Phoenicians, settled during Hellenistic period and Christianized by Byzantines while Muslim ones - from converted Christians and recent immigrants from Egypt, Jordan and other regions.

[Kamal900]

What's your opinion on Rivka Shpak-Lissak's book "When and How the Jewish Majority in the Land of Israel Was Eliminated: Are the Palestinians Descendants of Islamized Jews"?
According to her Palestinian Christians descended chiefly from Phoenicians, settled during Hellenistic period and Christianized by Byzantines while Muslim ones - from converted Christians and recent immigrants from Egypt, Jordan and other regions.

A lot of bullshit. Palestinian Christians cluster very closely with Samaritans, and there is no archaeological evidence whatsoever that Jews were displaced in massive numbers and all that. The Levantine ancestry among all Palestinian Arabs - both Muslims and Christians - came mostly from the ancestral Jewish and Samaritan populace. Now, Palestinian Muslims do have Arabian and Egyptian admixture, NOT population displacement during the 1800's and early 1900's while Christians don't have any recent admixtures due to their religious beliefs in not marrying with Muslims due on the fact that their children would grow up to be as Muslims according to Islamic law. There were no Phoenicians or ethnic Aramaeans ever living in the Southern Levant in mass, and the Phoenicians that were living in the Galilee region of Israel/Palestine were mixed and assimilated by Israelites during the Hosmonian Jewish kingdom which they incorporated the Aramaic language as a vernacular language for Jews which made the Hebrew language to go extinct in the 3rd century AD as a vernacular language.

[Tauromachos]

Yeah, the Egyptians were old stock levantines, before there was mass migrations of Iranian farmers and Anatolians in the Levant along with minor steppe.

Haha those Iranian and Anatolian invadors haha

[Synapsid]

Haha those Iranian and Anatolian invadors haha

it was a migration event

[Nassbean]

Of course they are at least way more than the zionists

[Leto]

If half Middle Eastern Jews can be considered 'indigenous', the Palis are even more so, especially the less admixed ones.

[Leto]

I have blue eyes. Is it coming from Steppe thing? I heard blue eyed people have one origin.
I still can't believe your two different kits generate such different results. I mean going up from zero NE Euro to 6% is mind-blowing if that's really the case.

[Kamal900]

Of course they are at least way more than the zionists

Indeed.

"fit": 3.0772,
"Levant_PPNB": 54.17,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 25,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 9.17,
"Yamnaya_RUS_Samara": 7.5,
"MAR_Iberomaurusian": 4.17,

"sample": "Test1alestinian",
"fit": 1.0421,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 53.33,
"Levant_JOR_EBA": 22.5,
"TKM_IA": 13.33,
"Canary_Islands_Guanche": 6.67,
"TZA_Pemba_600BP": 4.17,
"GEO_CHG": 0,

"sample": "Test1alestinian",
"fit": 1.3939,
"Lebanese_Christian": 65.83,
"Egyptian": 20.83,
"BedouinB": 10.83,
"Dinka": 2.5,

[Abdelnour]

The Aramaic ethnicity is bs. Palestinians, like Lebanese, are arabs.

Ethnicity is about language and culture, and less about genetics.

[Kamal900]

The Aramaic ethnicity is bs. Palestinians, like Lebanese, are arabs.

Ethnicity is about language and culture, and less about genetics.

Indeed. Here's a thread on that:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?314737-%26%23703%3BArab-%26%23702%3BA%26%23703%3Br%26%23257%3Bb-and-Arabic-in-Ancient-North-Arabia-the-first-attestation-of-(%26%23702%3B)%26%23703%3Brb-as-a-group-name

[Leto]

The Aramaic ethnicity is bs. Palestinians, like Lebanese, are arabs.

Ethnicity is about language and culture, and less about genetics.
Does it actually make sense for a Christian Levantine to call themself an Arab? I mean do you feel close to the Arabians?

[Abdelnour]

Does it actually make sense for a Christian Levantine to call themself an Arab? I mean do you feel close to the Arabians?

Culturally, yeah.

Even then, Arabians and Gulf Arabs knows that people from the Levant and North African are genetically different.

[Kamal900]

Does it actually make sense for a Christian Levantine to call themself an Arab? I mean do you feel close to the Arabians?

Why not? I mean, many of the ancient Arab tribes that were living in the Levant and Mesopotamia were Christians, so..yeah. And besides, Arabs as an ethnicity didn't originate from Arabia btw but rather their original Arab homeland was somewhere between the Southern Levant and NW-Arabia:
https://www.academia.edu/38100372/Al-Jallad._A_Manual_of_the_Historical_Grammar_of_Arab ic

Just a reminder that Arabs have existed long before Islam was created, so it wouldn't make sense for a Christian not to identify him/herself as an Arab really. Like Polish people had converted to Christianity in the 10th century AD(966 which the conversions took place), and yet, some of them were still pagans to the point that they revolted against the Polish kingdom in the 11th century AD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagan_reaction_in_Poland

In other words, ethnicity is independent from religion..unless if you're talking about ethno-religious groups like Jews and Copts.

[Leto]

Culturally, yeah.

Seriously? Muslim Arabs and Egyptians are closer to you than Greeks and Italians?

[Leto]

In other words, ethnicity is independent from religion..unless if you're talking about ethno-religious groups like Jews and Copts.
It isn't totally independent though. Religion is a huge part of culture and only recently atheism and nihilism became so widespread. One doesn't have to be a serious believer in order to acknowledge that. I know your sentiments, so let's not go into that, shall we.

[Kamal900]

Seriously? Muslim Arabs and Egyptians are closer to you than Greeks and Italians?

Well, yeah. Italians and Greeks are culturally very dissimilar to middle easterners as a whole really. My friend is a Maronite, so it's not something that non-Semitic peoples of Europe can exactly relate to besides their religion. As for phenotype, he looks very similar to myself(my family are Pali Muslims), but the only difference between him and me is that he's more pigmented than me, that's all. You can ask him to show you his pics via private message if you want.

[Kamal900]

It isn't totally independent though. Religion is a huge part of culture and only recently atheism and nihilism became so widespread. One doesn't have to be a serious believer in order to acknowledge that. I know your sentiments, so let's not go into that, shall we.

Sort of since Polaks see Christianity as an integral part of their culture and all, but not all Slavs share this sentiment since Czechs are mainly atheists or at least secularists. So, it depends on what ethnic group you're talking about.

[Leto]

Sort of since Polaks see Christianity as an integral part of their culture and all, but not all Slavs share this sentiment since Czechs are mainly atheists or at least secularists. So, it depends on what ethnic group you're talking about.
Well, the Czechs were Christian for 1,000 years too, just because they don't believe/don't practice today doesn't mean one thousand years of history can be easily disregarded. Europe wasn't a unified continent when it consisted of a multitude of pagan tribes. Again, don't let your personal grievances cloud your judgement. Anyway modern Europeans are increasingly cultureless globohomos who don't even care about their roots, so what does it matter if they don't see it as important. They probably don't see anything other than money and fun as important.
I know how it was/is in Russia after 70 years of communism. The void was quickly filled with all sorts of garbage coming from the West.

[Bred]

Palaestian shares common Anecerty with the Jews which is cannaite bronze age or Neolithic Levant natufian
but minority of them are mixed with other elements such as arab , Egyptian , Greco-roman and Maybe See
same with Jews who are mixed with locals euros

[Longbowman]

Not sure why you want me to weigh in, but, yeah, mostly, although some towns are more recently settled than others, or experienced recent migration. There are even black Palestinians.

[marco]

Op 10/10 for trolling or if not that check yourself on the spectrum

[Tauromachos]

Yes i consider them to be indigenous

[Token]

Palestinian Muslims have Arabic and Egyptian ancestry. Palestinian Christians are fully indigenous.

[samario]

Mostly the Maronites, but most Palestinian Christians are of Greek Othrodox and Catholic sects. The Aramaean ethnic identity is independent from religion which is true for Arab since many self declared Arameans in villages like Ma3loola and etc are muslims and all in Syria. Here's Ahmad al-Jallad's article on the history of the Arabic language:
https://www.academia.edu/38100372/Al-Jallad._A_Manual_of_the_Historical_Grammar_of_Arab ic

And about my stance in Trump's deal, it's a joke of the century, and really, the only thing that Palestinians should do is to advocate for a one state solution where both Palestinians and Jews have equal rights and etc under Israel which is the most realistic solution to the conflict.

What? I'm confused now. I thought religion was a turning point in Aramean identity 'cause they sort of want to segregate themselves from Muslims even though some of them don't even have a grasp of Aramaic and speak Arabic instead. However, there are some Aramaic-speaking people trying to introduce the language to newer generations in towns like Jish and Beit Jala. There's this other guy who wanted tu turn Jish into a fully Aramaic-speaking shelter.

Arameans, apparently, have a similar aim as Copts. Both Christian and sometimes using a language other than Arabic during liturgical events. Arameans are really pushing forward so that they can bring Aramaic back to life, though and they are sending their children to Hebrew-speaking schools.

[samario]

The Aramaic ethnicity is bs. Palestinians, like Lebanese, are arabs.

Ethnicity is about language and culture, and less about genetics.

How about self-determination? They are Christian, they hold the Aramaic language in high regard and most importantly they have a right to self-determination. Genetically they are for the most part native Canaanites with very low admixture, similar to Samaritans. They don't consider themselves as Arab. Some of them denounce mistreatment from Muslims even. Centuries of seclusive interbreeding also, possibly resulted in a distinctive genetic group, similar to Copts. (some of you have called them 'purer', etc.)

They were Arabised and they clearly are taking important steps to recover their lost identity.

[Smeagol]

Yes, much more than Jews.

[samario]

Palestinian Muslims have Arabic and Egyptian ancestry. Palestinian Christians are fully indigenous.

I think Egyptians and Canaanites, before Muslim conquest were closely related. You could tell that by the Bible.

Gulf Arabs aren't. Too far south.

[SUPREEEEEME]

Sure

[Kamal900]

What? I'm confused now. I thought religion was a turning point in Aramean identity 'cause they sort of want to segregate themselves from Muslims even though some of them don't even have a grasp of Aramaic and speak Arabic instead. However, there are some Aramaic-speaking people trying to introduce the language to newer generations in towns like Jish and Beit Jala. There's this other guy who wanted tu turn Jish into a fully Aramaic-speaking shelter.

Arameans, apparently, have a similar aim as Copts. Both Christian and sometimes using a language other than Arabic during liturgical events. Arameans are really pushing forward so that they can bring Aramaic back to life, though and they are sending their children to Hebrew-speaking schools.

Nah. My paternal half uncle is half Palestinian Arab and half Syrian Aramaean from Syria, and he's a Muslim, so..yeah. Well, most Pali Christians are NOT Aramaic speakers nor do they pray in Aramaic but rather in Greek and Arabic. Copts on the other hand do pray in their ancient language alongside with Arabic, and they're an ethno-religious grouping no different from Jews hence why they don't identify themselves as Arabs for the most part. The Aramaic language is just as "alien" to Israel as the Arabic language, and there were no Aramaeans that were living in mass in Israel but rather mostly Aramaic speaking Jews and Samaritans with some Arabs AKA Nabateans that used to live in the Negev desert.

[Kamal900]

Sure

Western Jewish peoples like yourself and Pali Muslims are both natives, yeah. Just not as genetically pure as their Christian and Samaritan counterparts.

[SUPREEEEEME]

Western Jewish peoples like yourself and Pali Muslims are both natives, yeah. Just not as genetically pure as their Christian and Samaritan counterparts.

Yes

[Kamal900]

Not sure why you want me to weigh in, but, yeah, mostly, although some towns are more recently settled than others, or experienced recent migration. There are even black Palestinians.

Indeed. We did see some migration from Egypt in the early 1800's to Palestine which many Sudanese people also migrated with them. Though, these Egyptian families pretty much mixed and assimilated with us which is why you find many Palestinian Muslim 23andMe results scoring significant Egyptian admixture which is between 15 to 20%.

[Smeagol]

Western Jewish peoples like yourself and Pali Muslims are both natives, yeah.

Jews are as native as Obama is to Northwest Europe. 50% foreign ancestry pretty much excludes them from being native.

I don't know about the muslims.

[Kamal900]

Jews are as native as Obama is to Northwest Europe. 50% foreign ancestry pretty much excludes them from being native.

I don't know about the muslims.

Well, how middle easterners see things is quite different from how Whites and East Asians see when it comes to inclusion and race/genetics. Western Jews are genetically around 50 to 55% Levantine/MENA while Palestinian Muslims are a little higher than that which is around 60 to 65%.

"sample": "Test1alestinian",
"fit": 1.3939,
"Lebanese_Christian": 65.83,
"Egyptian": 20.83,
"BedouinB": 10.83,
"Dinka": 2.5,

Lebanese Christians are genetically the most pure in the Levant, and using them to get the idea on how Levantine Palestinian Muslims are is indeed ideal to use. The average Ashkenazi Jews is a bit lower but still are considered as natives since more than half of their genome is Levantine.

[FinalFlash]

Jews are as native as Obama is to Northwest Europe. 50% foreign ancestry pretty much excludes them from being native.

I don't know about the muslims.

Pretty much this. You can make the same case for Sepharidic as well. As a matter of fact, I've yet to find any middle eastern jew that gets a palestinian, or any type of Levantine as their top match be they Yemeni jews, Iraqi Jews or whatever else.

[VigVagKesalt]

Well, how middle easterners see things is quite different from how Whites and East Asians see when it comes to inclusion and race/genetics. Western Jews are genetically around 50 to 55% Levantine/MENA while Palestinian Muslims are a little higher than that which is around 60 to 65%.

"sample": "Test1alestinian",
"fit": 1.3939,
"Lebanese_Christian": 65.83,
"Egyptian": 20.83,
"BedouinB": 10.83,
"Dinka": 2.5,

Lebanese Christians are genetically the most pure in the Levant, and using them to get the idea on how Levantine Palestinian Muslims are is indeed ideal to use. The average Ashkenazi Jews is a bit lower but still are considered as natives since more than half of their genome is Levantine.

Samaritans are less pure than Lebanese Christians?

[Kamal900]

Samaritans are less pure than Lebanese Christians?

A bit. Samaritans are indeed genetically predominately Levantines, but not as pure as the Lebanese Christians which is why I used them to get an idea how Levantine Palestinian Muslims are on average.

[VigVagKesalt]

A bit. Samaritans are indeed genetically predominately Levantines, but not as pure as the Lebanese Christians which is why I used them to get an idea how Levantine Palestinian Muslims are on average.

That's a little bit hard to believe considering Samaritans are probably the most isolated group of people in the Levant.

[Tauromachos]

Its interesting that the Christian population maintained the purest genetic ancestry from indigenous people of the
region more than both their Muslim and Jewish counterparts

[Kamal900]

That's a little bit hard to believe considering Samaritans are probably the most isolated group of people in the Levant.

Not exactly the most isolated. The Druze are pretty much isolated from the rest of the world, and yet, they do seem to have some west asian admixture that got added into their genepool when the Druze were simply an Islamic sect of Islam before evolving into it's own independent religion. According to many genetic studies that I have seen, the most genetically pure people in the Levant are the Lebanese Christians while other genetic isolated groups of the Levant like the Pali Christians, Druze and Samaritans come in 2nd place. Pali Muslims and Western Jewish peoples are genetically admixed with non-Levantine groups.

[Kamal900]

Its interesting that the Christian population maintained the purest genetic ancestry from indigenous people of the
region more than both their Muslim and Jewish counterparts

It makes sense really since they don't want to see their community disappear like what happened with most Samaritans who got mixed and assimilated to the general Islamic populace of the Levant since their children would identify as Muslims according to Islamic law where a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman(Christians and Jews only) while this is not the case for a Muslim woman at all which is why the Y-DNA among Pali Muslims is around 37% belong to the Arabian clades of the J1-P58 while the Pali Christians don't. In other words, Palestinian Muslim got their tribal and religious affiliation from their Arabian fathers despite that their mt-DNA is no different from their Christian and Samaritan counterparts.

[Longbowman]

Not exactly the most isolated. The Druze are pretty much isolated from the rest of the world, and yet, they do seem to have some west asian admixture that got added into their genepool when the Druze were simply an Islamic sect of Islam before evolving into it's own independent religion. According to many genetic studies that I have seen, the most genetically pure people in the Levant are the Lebanese Christians while other genetic isolated groups of the Levant like the Pali Christians, Druze and Samaritans come in 2nd place. Pali Muslims and Western Jewish peoples are genetically admixed with non-Levantine groups.

No, Druze have a lot of Yemeni ancestry.

I disagree with you on this