Turkish 23andme from Izmir. Genetically European???

[Voskos]

The guy's listed ancestors' birthplaces:
3/4 Izmir
1/4 Crete

His result:
https://snipboard.io/eLl5gR.jpg

Rest is unassigned, Siberian and Central Asian are 0.


What do you guys think?

[Aileron]

The guy's listed ancestors' birthplaces:
3/4 Izmir
1/4 Crete

His result:
https://snipboard.io/eLl5gR.jpg

Rest is unassigned, Siberian and Central Asian are 0.


What do you guys think?

Arent Cretans middle eastern?

[Voskos]

Arent Cretans middle eastern?

no.why?

[Kamal900]

Arent Cretans middle eastern?

Half of their genes is west Asian from the Caucasus and the Levant while the other half is from the Mycenaean Greeks.

[Bosniensis]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-26950efa4f776993f329df047f31b5b7.webp

[Voskos]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-26950efa4f776993f329df047f31b5b7.webp

His Y-DNA is R1a Z282.

[Bosniensis]

His Y-DNA is R1a Z282.

As seen on Macedonian Bronze Age sample steppe admixture is very old here. R1a as original steppe carriers are present on Balkans and Anatolia for many many years, just weren't majority rather minority (and R1a is a minor haplogroup in Anatolia)

[Salonikios]

Gedmatch?

[Thracian]

It seems old version of 23andme but you can not trust their methods since West Asia also has Turkish samples. That means he most likely has hidden East Euroasian. I also have 0.1% or something like that but I have around 3% on Gedmatch.

[Thracian]

...

[Faklon]

Arent Cretans middle eastern?

Cretan ancestry is the Euro-shift among Anatolian Turks who generally are 90% Iranian 10% Cretan.



Half of their genes is west Asian from the Caucasus and the Levant while the other half is from the Mycenaean Greeks.


No, Mycenaean samples are close to Cretans and they are even more South-East/Neolithic shifted.

https://i.imgur.com/uKZsfhE.jpg

[catgeorge]

Arent Cretans middle eastern?

Islam is for low IQ nitwits that cant tell the difference between their ass and their elbow - did you know that?

[Bosniensis]

People are misguided about modern naming of places.

For example, in Ottoman and Roman Empire, Asia was just Anatolia while steppes were called Scythia or Magogia (not Asia)

Same for Africa, Africa wasn't a name for a continent but for Tunis, rest of African desert were called Garmanites Tribes or something like that or Nubians.

The fact that someone is from Anatolia today, doesn't mean he is Asian (in the modern understanding of the word Asia) because ASIA in Ancient Times
was considered part of Mediterranean world not a different continent like today.

Africa was also Mediterranean world where Carthage and similar Western Mediterranean cities existed.

Anatolian Turks are in fact Asian Mediterranean people, Turkified native populace.

[catgeorge]

People are misguided about modern naming of places.

For example, in Ottoman and Roman Empire, Asia was just Anatolia while steppes were called Scythia or Magogia (not Asia)

Same for Africa, Africa wasn't a name for a continent but for Tunis, rest of African desert were called Garmanites Tribes or something like that or Nubians.

The fact that someone is from Anatolia today, doesn't mean he is Asian (in the modern understanding of the word Asia) because ASIA in Ancient Times
was considered part of Mediterranean world not a different continent like today.

Africa was also Mediterranean world where Carthage and similar Western Mediterranean cities existed.

Anatolian Turks are in fact Asian Mediterranean people, Turkified native populace.

I'll be surprised if that result is the norm. But would be the typical result of the population exchanges it occured four generations ago now.

[Faklon]

People are misguided about modern naming of places.

For example, in Ottoman and Roman Empire, Asia was just Anatolia while steppes were called Scythia or Magogia (not Asia)

Same for Africa, Africa wasn't a name for a continent but for Tunis, rest of African desert were called Garmanites Tribes or something like that or Nubians.

The fact that someone is from Anatolia today, doesn't mean he is Asian (in the modern understanding of the word Asia) because ASIA in Ancient Times
was considered part of Mediterranean world not a different continent like today.

Africa was also Mediterranean world where Carthage and similar Western Mediterranean cities existed.

Anatolian Turks are in fact Asian Mediterranean people, Turkified native populace.

Asian as in Kurdish larpers?

[Bosniensis]

Asian as in Kurdish larpers?

No, modern Turkey extends far further than what was proper Anatolia, those Kurds in South East were considered Persians and were not Anatolians.

[Leto]

His Y-DNA is R1a Z282.
Probably was a slave from our lands. Crimean Tatars stole and sold up to 3 million Russians and Slavs within 300 years.

[Faklon]

No, modern Turkey extends far further than what was proper Anatolia, those Kurds in South East were considered Persians and were not Anatolians.

To answer to both to you and the Durkish butthurt who is thumbing down.

Here is a peer-reviewed PCA by Haak et al.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/ba/0a/11ba0a237e5fd84c056e0756f0abd3bc.png

Durks are mostly Iranoid folk, not mediterranean.

https://i.imgur.com/uKZsfhE.jpg

They got med influx from muslim Cretans, Balkanic from Vallahades and Albanians, Slavobalkanic from Bosniaks and Pomaks. In the grand scheme of thngs, they are mainly Turkified Kurds. Cretans are pretty much pure Myceneans since they haven't seen any major influx since the Bronze Age, Roumelian Greeks are Mycenaeans with a notable Slavobalkan influx and you are pretty much half Northern Slav or more.

[Bosniensis]

To answer to both to you and the Durkish butthurt who is thumbing down.

Here are is a peer-reviewed PCA by Haak et al.

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/ba/0a/11ba0a237e5fd84c056e0756f0abd3bc.png[/IG]

Durks are mostly Iranoid folk, not mediterranean.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/uKZsfhE.jpg[/IG]

The got med influx from muslim Cretans, Balkanic from Vallahades and Albanians, Slavobalkanic from Bosniaks and Pomaks. In the grand scheme of thngs, they are mainly Turkified Kurds. Cretans are pretty much pure Myceneans since they haven't seen any major influx since the Bronze Age, Roumelian Greeks are Mycenaeans with a notable Slavobalkan influx and you are pretty much half Northern Slav or more.

I challenge you to Duel, let's see how Bronze Age Macedonian sample you score. I score distance 7.9

Can you beat that?

Target: Bosniensis
Distance: 1.4160% / 1.41604615 | ADC: 0.25x
48.8 I2165_Balkans_BronzeAge
23.4 Bul4_Yamnaya_Bulgaria
11.8 SZ5
6.4 ANI163_Varna_Outlier
4.0 I4111_Ukraine_Neolithic
2.8 I4112_Ukraine_Neolithic
2.4 SZ6
0.4 I1709_AG84_8_Early_MPPNB

6.75925292 SZ5
7.59790761 SZ18
7.90972819 AlemannicBavariaBIM_33
7.95738651 I2165_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.99975000 CL63
8.12264120 SZ27
8.63529965 CL53
8.86762651 R1219_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria

[Faklon]

I challenge you to Duel, let's see how Bronze Age Macedonian sample you score. I score distance 7.9

Can you beat that?

Target: Bosniensis
Distance: 1.4160% / 1.41604615 | ADC: 0.25x
48.8 I2165_Balkans_BronzeAge
23.4 Bul4_Yamnaya_Bulgaria
11.8 SZ5
6.4 ANI163_Varna_Outlier
4.0 I4111_Ukraine_Neolithic
2.8 I4112_Ukraine_Neolithic
2.4 SZ6
0.4 I1709_AG84_8_Early_MPPNB

6.75925292 SZ5
7.59790761 SZ18
7.90972819 AlemannicBavariaBIM_33
7.95738651 I2165_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.99975000 CL63
8.12264120 SZ27
8.63529965 CL53
8.86762651 R1219_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria

48.8 is not even half Brate.

7.9 km is around the distance from my father's village to Macedonia's borders, speaking a Greek languange with a lot of Latin and some Slavic words.

[Bosniensis]

48.8 is not even half Brate.

7.9 km is around the distance from my father's village to Macedonia's borders, speaking a Greek languange with a lot of Latin and some Slavic words.

Are u scared of duel?

come on, post your Bronze Age Balkans

You don't understand that "Slavic Steppe" component was present on Balkans in 1000 B.C.

Yamnaya people mixed with Macedonians FAR before 1st Olympian games.

Also those Roman warriors from 6th century seem more Bosnian than Greek

1. Kosovan (7.844)
2. Bulgarian (11.16)
3. Romanian (12.12)
4. Tuscan (12.38)
5. Bosnian (12.81)
6. North_Italian (12.87)
7. Greek (13.91)
8. Greek_Thessaly (14.64)

Your concept of understanding Balkan genetics is so 2010.

[Faklon]

Are u scared of duel?

come on, post your Bronze Age Balkans

You don't understand that "Slavic Steppe" component was present on Balkans in 1000 B.C.

Yamnaya people mixed with Macedonians FAR before 1st Olympian games.

Some Steppe component was present in the Balkans, not all the Steppe component and it will be already mixed with Neolithic Balkans by the Bronze Age.

I haven't taken a DNA test, run Greek_Thessaly*3 and Central_Greek*1, divide by 4 and check the percentage.

[Faklon]

Also those Roman warriors from 6th century seem more Bosnian than Greek

1. Kosovan (7.844)
2. Bulgarian (11.16)
3. Romanian (12.12)
4. Tuscan (12.38)
5. Bosnian (12.81)
6. North_Italian (12.87)
7. Greek (13.91)
8. Greek_Thessaly (14.64)

Your concept of understanding Balkan genetics is so 2010.

From which peer-reviewed study are these and how are they closer to Kosovars who by extend are far closer to Northern Greeks than Bosnians?

Seems skewed af.

[Aileron]

To answer to both to you and the Durkish butthurt who is thumbing down.

Here are is a peer-reviewed PCA by Haak et al.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/ba/0a/11ba0a237e5fd84c056e0756f0abd3bc.png

Durks are mostly Iranoid folk, not mediterranean.

https://i.imgur.com/uKZsfhE.jpg

They got med influx from muslim Cretans, Balkanic from Vallahades and Albanians, Slavobalkanic from Bosniaks and Pomaks. In the grand scheme of thngs, they are mainly Turkified Kurds. Cretans are pretty much pure Myceneans since they haven't seen any major influx since the Bronze Age, Roumelian Greeks are Mycenaeans with a notable Slavobalkan influx and you are pretty much half Northern Slav or more.

You mean steppe?Personally i dont have any med influence
I think Greeks and other mediternean populations would have Arabic and middle eastern influence
A user indicated that even püre Bedouin Arabs are kinda close south euros

[Heaven]

It is funny to see Greeks acting as if they really had a proper race, own genes and distinctive features from other people. If we were really unaware and ignorant of the racial chaos that happened and wiped out ancient Hellenic people, starting from the rise and fall of Macedon, Roman occupation, Byzantine calamity, we could have actually believed such cheap propaganda. But it is anyway fun to watch Greeks acting as if there were really some biological component that distinguished them. Watching with pop corn.

[Bosniensis]

From which peer-reviewed study are these and how are they closer to Kosovars who by extend are far closer to Northern Greeks than Bosnians?

Seems skewed af.

Byzantine soldiers who died in fight against Goths somewhere north of Slovenia (Eastern Alps)

Here is complete research link: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/09/1400-year-old-warrior-burial-ground-reveals-german-fighters-came-near-and-far

The one buried had Roman artifacts (equipment)

Do you see now how trivial is "Paleobalkan" ancestry, and 605 A.D. Soldier is Pre-Slavic migrations and this sample shows us that "Slavic migrations" did nothing to change demography of Western Balkans.

The fact that soldier is closer to Bosnians than omni-glorified Greeks (with respect) is astonishing.

Greeks were Part of Roman Empire and probably cultural CORE, but to call that soldier "Slav" would be ... wrong.

Also Greeks were not Latin speakers, but our Vlachs were... that is the first sign how Roman Empire wasn't Greek exclusive space.

[Maintenance]

It is funny to see Greeks acting as if they really had a proper race, own genes and distinctive features from other people. If we were really unaware and ignorant of the racial chaos that happened and wiped out ancient Hellenic people, starting from the rise and fall of Macedon, Roman occupation, Byzantine calamity, we could have actually believed such cheap propaganda. But it is anyway fun to watch Greeks acting as if there were really some biological component that distinguished them. Watching with pop corn.

Basically like turks claiming to be steppe when in fact their steppe is next to none and much lower than Europeans.

[Faklon]

You mean Steppe?

The Steppe is well shown in the plots above, no special relation to Turks whatsoever. You are as close to Steppe as Iranics and Cretans are.

The difference is that you are mixed with Indus Valley folk when Cretans are mixed with Neolithic folk.

[Kaspias]

The guy's listed ancestors' birthplaces:
3/4 Izmir
1/4 Crete

His result:
https://snipboard.io/eLl5gR.jpg

Rest is unassigned, Siberian and Central Asian are 0.


What do you guys think?

3/4 Balkan migrator, non-Turk(Bosniak? Greek Convert? Albanian?)

[Faklon]

Byzantine soldiers who died in fight against Goths somewhere north of Slovenia (Eastern Alps)

Here is complete research link: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/09/1400-year-old-warrior-burial-ground-reveals-german-fighters-came-near-and-far

The one buried had Roman artifacts (equipment)

Do you see now how trivial is "Paleobalkan" ancestry, and 605 A.D. Soldier is Pre-Slavic migrations and this sample shows us that "Slavic migrations" did nothing to change demography of Western Balkans.

The fact that soldier is closer to Bosnians than omni-glorified Greeks (with respect) is astonishing.

Greeks were Part of Roman Empire and probably cultural CORE, but to call that soldier "Slav" would be ... wrong.

Also Greeks were not Latin speakers, but our Vlachs were... that is the first sign how Roman Empire wasn't Greek exclusive space.

There is no genetic study in the article you posted and no reference to this skewed calculator.

Latin has been the major influence in the Balkans including Greece since the Battle of Actium and beyond, Vlach isn't even defined in modern Balkan nations and is dying as an identity. You don't hail from people that identified as Vlachs and you carry a Slavonic surname.

[userade]

You mean steppe?Personally i dont have any med influence
I think Greeks and other mediternean populations would have Arabic and middle eastern influence
A user indicated that even püre Bedouin Arabs are kinda close south euros

I don't have a horse in this race. Just casually passing by:

https://i.imgur.com/XQeCjBm.png

[Faklon]

I don't have a horse in this race. Just casually passing by:

https://i.imgur.com/XQeCjBm.png

Less than Cretans, mb for being Turkophile.

[Aileron]

Anyways as a Yörük i am probably closer to other Turkic peoples than natives(Greeks,Armenian etc)

[userade]

Less than Cretans, mb for being Turkophile.

I don't understand what you are saying. I didn't collect the samples nor made the algorithm. It's based on G25 Eurogenes data. You can recreate it yourself here (https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/).

[Faklon]

I don't understand what you are saying. I didn't collect the samples nor made the algorithm. It's based on G25 Eurogenes data. You can recreate it yourself here (https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/).

I'm referring to the presentation of Turks as Steppe folk.

[Bosniensis]

There is no genetic study in the article you posted and no reference to this skewed calculator.

Latin has been the major influence in the Balkans including Greece since the Battle of Actium and beyond, Vlach isn't even defined in modern Balkan nations and is dying as an identity. You don't hail from people that identified as Vlachs and you carry a Slavonic surname.

You are trolling.

You are not particulary smart in doing that.

[Faklon]

You are trolling.

You are not particulary smart in doing that.

I found ancient document, you are the Scythian Borreby at 3:06.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfaltp8CL0

[userade]

I'm referring to the presentation of Turks as Steppe folk.

I am not representing anything, all the components are neolithic components of the area that do not overlap between them (at least significantly). Modern Turks and Greeks are similar in their Neolithic component breakdown, if you take out the significant Siberian Neolithic admixture Turks have that seems to be eating away from their EEF and their elevated Iranian_Neo farmer admixture, which makes sense from their historical perspective and their geography.

Greek_Trabzon and Turkish_Trabzon are also almost identical, with both lacking the Siberian/Steppe component, and both plotting right on top of the Armenian_Hemshin cluster (not shown here), representatives of an almost undiluted Kura-Araxes-like population.

[Maintenance]

I'm referring to the presentation of Turks as Steppe folk.

They have next to no steppe which is laughable since they claim some steppe ancestry and even have tons of youtube accounts with steppe content in it.

[Bosniensis]

I found ancient document, you are the Scythian Borreby at 3:06.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfaltp8CL0

Go find ancient document where it says: "Greek State"

I can't wait to see it.

[Aileron]

They have next to no steppe which is laughable since they claim some steppe ancestry and even have tons of youtube accounts with steppe content in it.

Physically I am the definition of steppe dude( not süre about genetics)

[Maintenance]

Physically I am the definition of steppe dude( not süre about genetics)

Yes maybe since you look northern european where the real steppe ancestry is.

if you are geneticly turkish you are the opposite of steppe.

[userade]

They have next to no steppe which is laughable since they claim some steppe ancestry and even have tons of youtube accounts with steppe content in it.

I am sorry but the sampling says you are wrong. They have a Yamnaya_Samara component averaging in the 15-23%s-ish. Greeks have a bit more on average.

[Maintenance]

I am sorry but the sampling says you are wrong. They have a Yamnaya_Samara component averaging in the 15-23%s-ish. Greeks have a bit more on average.

Show any turkish in a calculator and i can show any european ethnicity with higher steppe

[Faklon]

I am not representing anything, all the components are neolithic components of the area that do not overlap between them (at least significantly). Modern Turks and Greeks are similar in their Neolithic component breakdown, if you take out the significant Siberian Neolithic admixture Turks have that seems to be eating away from their EEF and their elevated Iranian_Neo farmer admixture, which makes sense from their historical perspective and their geography.

Greek_Trabzon and Turkish_Trabzon are also almost identical, with both lacking the Siberian/Steppe component, and both plotting right on top of the Armenian_Hemshin cluster (not shown here), representatives of an almost undiluted Kura-Araxes-like population.

Agreed but they are not similar in their Neolithic breakdown. Beyond the Trabzon samples, Turks are leaning towards Ganj Dareh and Greeks towards Barcin with notable elevated Steppe in the Balkans, only Balkan Turks score high Steppe since they are highly Turkified natives.

[userade]

Show any turkish in a calculator and i can show any european ethnicity with higher steppe

I just linked you the G25 averages. I am not arguing that Europeans not have more Yamnaya_Samara% than both the Greeks and the Turks, but to say they have none, it's far from the truth. Greeks and Turks are both EEF-majority in their components with Turks shifting towards Iran and East Asia, in comparison.

[Maintenance]

I just linked you the G25 averages. I am not arguing that Europeans not have more Yamnaya_Samara% than both the Greeks and the Turks, but to say they have none, it's far from the truth. Greeks and Turks are both EEF-majority in their components with Turks shifting towards Iran and East Asia, in comparison.

G25 is useless, its references are made by people here who have an agenda

Proof of that is feichy whos a mutt cherry picked and cried untill croatian references are from her cherrypicks
And greeks are moldovan on G25

K10 Steppe calculator.

[userade]

Agreed but they are not similar in their Neolithic breakdown. Beyond the Trabzon samples, Turks are leaning towards Ganj Dareh and Greeks towards Barcin with notable elevated Steppe in the Balkans, only Balkan Turks score high Steppe since they are highly Turkified natives.

I think we are saying the same thing. Also "high" is a relative term, Northern Euros score 40-50% Samara which means that the 15-23% average of the Turks is roughly in the 1/3 to 1/2 ballpark, compared to them.

[Aileron]

Agreed but they are not similar in their Neolithic breakdown. Beyond the Trabzon samples, Turks are leaning towards Ganj Dareh and Greeks towards Barcin with notable elevated Steppe in the Balkans, only Balkan Turks score high Steppe since they are highly Turkified natives.

how can mediternean Greeks have any steppe ancestry ?

[Maintenance]

I think we are saying the same thing. Also "high" is a relative term, Northern Euros score 40-50% Samara which means that the 15-23% average of the Turks is roughly in the 1/3 to 1/2 ballpark, compared to them.

Thats what i meant, turkish people build their whole persona after some steppe ancestry which is lower than everyone else in Europe.

[userade]

G25 is useless, its references are made by people here who have an agenda

Proof of that is feichy whos a mutt cherry picked and cried untill croatian references are from her cherrypicks
And greeks are moldovan on G25

K10 Steppe calculator.

Dude, I am sorry, I don't know you or the people you reference but it seems to me it's you who has an agenda. K10 is made by the same person who designed and is currently maintaining G25, so w/e bias you think he has can be logically applied to all of his work.

[Aileron]

Yes maybe since you look northern european where the real steppe ancestry is.

if you are geneticly turkish you are the opposite of steppe.

I am probably more Turkic in genetics compared to avarage Türk

[Bosniensis]

how can mediternean Greeks have any steppe ancestry ?

Influence of Scythians through Thracians and Illyrians.

here is example:

Zyraxes was a Getae king who ruled the northern part of what is today Dobrogea in the 1st century BC. He was mentioned in relation with the campaigns of Marcus Licinius Crassus (grandson of the triumvir). His capital, Genucla, was besieged by the Romans in 28 BC, but he managed to escape and flee to his Scythian allies.

Earlier, Antonius Hybrida, the governor of Moesia, was defeated beneath the walls of Histria in 61 BC. The Getae (Thracians) under Zyraxes and the bastarnae of Scythia were allied with the Histrians (Illyrians), but it seems that the main victors of this conflict were the Getae, as they were the keepers of the battle trophies and brought them back to Genucla, Zyraxes' capital.

[Maintenance]

Dude, I am sorry, I don't know you or the people you reference but it seems to me it's you who has an agenda. K10 is made by the same person who designed and is currently maintaining G25, so w/e bias you think he has can be logically applied to all of his work.

The calculators were made according to some users here, one user cried and complained untill she got to pick the references for balkan

That makes g25 a joke

k10 steppe is not touched by random people who want to be special

[userade]

how can mediternean Greeks have any steppe ancestry ?

Well, how do you think? The same way everyone got it since the invasions of the EBA/IA. Minoans had 0%, Myceneans had around 10-15% and modern Greeks have obviously more (some attribute it to the Slavic Invasions but results are inconclusive).

[userade]

The calculators were made according to some users here, one user cried and complained untill she got to pick the references for balkan

That makes g25 a joke

k10 steppe is not touched by random people who want to be special

The calculators and all the samples are maintained by the same person, Davidski, at his Eurogenes website, and only he gets to decide what's included and what not (and he's really transparent about it). 90%+ of the samples are from academic research.

You're just clueless, sorry.

[Faklon]

how can mediternean Greeks have any steppe ancestry ?

Since steppe is Indo-European carriers when Turks are predominately gypsy folk with a mongoloid admixture, their gypsy admixture accounts for some Steppe.

[Maintenance]

The calculators and all the samples are maintained by the same person, Davidski, at his Eurogenes website, and only he gets to decide what's included and what not (and he's really transparent about it). 90%+ of the samples are from academic research.

You're just clueless, sorry.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310130-NEW!-All-Gedmatch-calculators-on-Vahaduo-ON-LINE&p=6403468#post6403468

ok man

[Aileron]

Since steppe is Indo-European carriers when Turks are predominately gypsy folk with a mongoloid admixture, their gypsy admixture accounts for some Steppe.

Spare me with your bullshit dude lol
Greeks dont have any indo european , you are just native dark haired,tanned skin neolithic med people

[Maintenance]

Spare me with your bullshit dude lol
Greeks dont have any indo european , you are just native dark haired,tanned skin med people

Why are you even discussing things you have no knowledge about?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ283N_ZdKY

[Faklon]

Spare me with your bullshit dude lol
Greeks dont have any indo european , you are just native dark haired,tanned skin med people

Steppe/Yamnaya wansn't blonde to begin with, we are dark pigmented for European standards which is funny since Anatolian gypsies in the Ottoman empire used Rum as a synonym for blonde.

[userade]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310130-NEW!-All-Gedmatch-calculators-on-Vahaduo-ON-LINE&p=6403468#post6403468

ok man

I am sorry, dude. I have no idea or interest to partake in your juvenile forum dramas. Everything I linked you can recreate yourself with 100% accuracy. Go here (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html), take the list of the components you want and then link them here (https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/), using the pop. reference you want as the target. My model is legit and is using Davidski's 100% academic samples. You just have an agenda and act like a little spoiled brat about it.


Spare me with your bullshit dude lol
Greeks dont have any indo european , you are just native dark haired,tanned skin med people

You are wrong and my model above proves it painfully to both of you juvenile posters.

[Maintenance]

I am sorry, dude. I have no idea or interest to partake in your juvenile forum dramas. Everything I linked you can recreate yourself with 100% accuracy. Go here (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html), take the list of the components you want and then link them here (https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/), using the pop. reference you want as the target. My model is legit and is using Davidski's 100% academic samples. You just have an agenda and act like a little spoiled brat about it.



You are wrong and my model above proves it painfully to both of you juvenile posters.

Trying to prove what i said but you refuse and just insult, i have no agenda what so ever, you agreed with what i said but keep on yapping.

[Faklon]

Perception in Ottoman Izmir.

https://i.ibb.co/8m6RdPT/duuuurk.jpg

[Aileron]

Steppe/Yamnaya wansn't blonde to begin with, we are dark pigmented for European standards which is funny since Anatolian gypsies in the Ottoman empire used Rum as a synonym for blonde.
Lol you are burned
Native Turkified people in some areas in western Turkey are usually dark and look like Greeks even Arabs(Curly wavy haired etc) whereas Highter Türkic input people like me are different looking

[userade]

Trying to prove what i said but you refuse and just insult, i have no agenda what so ever, you agreed with what i said but keep on yapping.

Prove what? You either trust Eurogenes' work or you don't. Saying you trust the outdated (author's words) K10 and not the G25 is an exercise in pedantic futility. I repeat my model is legit and can be recreated by everyone in mere minutes.

I am sorry you don't like the fact that Turks have 1/4 to 1/6 of their ancestry tracing back to Samara, but it's the truth and no number of childish back-and-forths can refute it.

[Faklon]

Lol you are burned
Native Turkified people in some areas in western Turkey are usually dark and look like Greeks even Arabs(Curly wavy haired etc) whereas Highter Türkic input people like me are different looking

Sure thing mate, spam some blondes with Thracian and Slavic names.

[Bosniensis]

Faklon doesn't understand that after the collapse of Eastern Roman Empire people changed languages and identities.

[Maintenance]

Prove what? You either trust Eurogenes' work or you don't. Saying you trust the outdated (author's words) K10 and not the G25 is an exercise in pedantic futility. I repeat my model is legit and can be recreated by everyone in mere minutes.

I am sorry you don't like the fact that Turks have 1/4 to 1/6 of their ancestry tracing back to Samara, but it's the truth and no number of childish back-and-forths can refute it.

G25 runs on that site Yes or No?

And what model, you just post where to buy G25 and which site to use.

[Faklon]

Faklon doesn't understand that after the collapse of Eastern Roman Empire people changed languages and identities.

I understand it very well, what you have to understand is that Turks don't come up like Rums. Only Balkan Turks but with elevated Slavic admixture.

[Aileron]

Sure thing mate, spam some blondes with Thracian and Slavic names.

Why do you mention Slavs , they are different and look vay different than Greeks

[Bosniensis]

I understand it very well, what you have to understand is that Turks don't come up like Rums. Only Balkan Turks but with elevated Slavic admixture.

Not all Turks are Rums (Romans)

Only those with little Steppe who are predominantly Armenians, Laz, Greeks, Anatolian Syrian and Persian are Rum, for the reason those people were Roman Citizens before Turkic conquests.

After collapse of Roman Empire, many populations were forced to identify with their new overlords for obvious reasons.

You can't deny the fact that Istanbul populace excluding Arabs and Kurds are Rum.

I believe that about 60% Turks qualify as Rums.

Also your perception of "South Slavs" is completely Outdated.

Pomaks are 100% Thracians.

[userade]

G25 runs on that site Yes or No?

And what model, you just post where to buy G25 and which site to use.

Look, very quick tutorial. You visit the G25 list page (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html), and you open up the text file you want (I used ancient_scaled_averages). You pick the samples you want and copy/paste them to SOURCE. Then you open up the modern scaled list (I used the averages again) and you pick the modern population you want (one or many) and copy/paste to the TARGET tab. Then you click RUN on the last two tabs.

And to continue, further, I really don't understand what the big deal is with Samara ancestry. All modern Europeans (and West Eurasians I would add) pick up their genetic ancestry from three major sources, EEF, Samara and WHG. Both Greeks and Turks share the EEF and Samara components with the people of Western Europe, albeit in different percentages. Instead of WHG, both Greeks and Turks draw from the CHG/Iran Neo and Natufian neolithic components (in smaller numbers), with Turks also scoring Siberian Neolithic.

If this is about a 'who's whiter' racist discourse, rest assured that both EEF and Samara are responsible for the white skin genes of all Europeans (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin) (WHGs were quite dark).

[Faklon]

Why do you mention Slavs , they are different and look vay different than Greeks

When I mention Slavs, I mean Bosniensis not Finnic Russians. If you think they look very different so be it. Declaring Turks as gypsies, since the distance is even greater genetically and anthropologically, makes even more sense.

[Aileron]

When I mention Slavs, I mean Bosniensis not Finnic Russians. If you think they look very different so be it. Declaring Turks as gypsies, since the distance is even greater genetically and anthropologically, makes even more sense.
Lol wut i meant Slavs are very different compared to pred dark Greeks even south slavs look different compared to Greeks

Besides genetics many Greeks look kinda Arabs from med region which is interesting( curly haired etc...)

[Faklon]

Not all Turks are Rums (Romans)

Only those with little Steppe who are predominantly Armenians, Laz, Greeks, Anatolian Syrian and Persian are Rum, for the reason those people were Roman Citizens before Turkic conquests.

After collapse of Roman Empire, many populations were forced to identify with their new overlords for obvious reasons.

You can't deny the fact that Istanbul populace excluding Arabs and Kurds are Rum.

I believe that about 60% Turks qualify as Rums.

Also your perception of "South Slavs" is completely Outdated.

Pomaks are 100% Thracians.

*For cuck reasons.

*Pomaks speak Slavic.

*Turks that don't come up like Kurds and Arabs are a small minority.

[Bosniensis]

When I mention Slavs, I mean Bosniensis not Finnic Russians. If you think they look very different so be it. Declaring Turks as gypsies, since the distance is even greater genetically and anthropologically, makes even more sense.

Well, let's see how Justnian's people looked, well not even remotely like Greeks.

Whoever has lived north of Greeks, (Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia) knows they look alike to us ONLY.

Even people around St. Catharine in Egypt Sinai say "We are Vlachs" obiviously.. not Greeks.


https://st4.depositphotos.com/4741067/21800/i/1600/depositphotos_218004496-stock-photo-ravenna-italy-september-2018-byzantine.jpg

[Faklon]

Lol wut i meant Slavs are very different compared to pred dark Greeks even south slavs look different compared to Greeks

Yeah, okay. Go beg for a dick in the taxonomy section, hopefully you are not using another man's picture.

[Aileron]

Anyways i am out of this troll thread
✌️ out

[itilvolga]

We need to see his gedmatch results before saying anything categorically

[Faklon]

Well, let's see how Justnian's people looked, well not even remotely like Greeks.

Whoever has lived north of Greeks, (Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia) knows they look alike to us ONLY.


https://st4.depositphotos.com/4741067/21800/i/1600/depositphotos_218004496-stock-photo-ravenna-italy-september-2018-byzantine.jpg

They look like Cretans.

https://i.ibb.co/qmL2GtK/alsithi.jpg

Close but different than Greeks in general.

https://i.ibb.co/64MC3Kp/ss-2015-02-13-at-02-58-28.jpg

Somewhat distant to Roumeliot Greeks but still close.

https://i.ibb.co/GQ7nCNQ/100-1791.jpg

No relation to Bosniaks.

https://xdn.tf.rs/2016/06/09/20160609095332000000-830x553.jpg

https://tip.ba/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/596a0e2d-1c4c-4422-a93d-069f0a0a0a66-ines-midzic-preview.jpg

[Bosniensis]

They look like Cretans.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/qmL2GtK/alsithi.jpg[/IG]

Close but different than Greeks in general.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/64MC3Kp/ss-2015-02-13-at-02-58-28.jpg[/IG]

Somewhat distant to Roumeliot Greeks but still close.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/GQ7nCNQ/100-1791.jpg[/MG]

No relation to Bosniaks.

[IMG]https://xdn.tf.rs/2016/06/09/20160609095332000000-830x553.jpg[/MG]


HAHAHAHHAHAHA Cretans yes...

Cope my friend.... travel more.

As I said, NO GREEK look like Justinian and his people, He was Thraco-Illyrian

We will yet to troll HELL out of Greeks and your false claims in years to come, you will be ashamed of yourself.

Also Basic Math:

Justinian father did not speak Greek ... Upss...

Justinian LEARNED Greek... ups...

"Muh Greek"

The only romance latin speakers are Illyrians, Dacians.. noob.

[Faklon]

HAHAHAHHAHAHA Cretans yes...

Cope my friend.... travel more.

As I said, NO GREEK look like Justinian and his people, He was Thraco-Illyrian

We will yet to troll HELL out of Greeks and your false claims in years to come, you will be ashamed of yourself.

Also Basic Math:

Justinian father did not speak Greek ... Upss...

Justinian LEARNED Greek... ups...

"Muh Greek"

The only romance latin speakers are Illyrians, Dacians.. noob.

It doesn't matter what he spoke.

https://roberthorvat30.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/justinian-i-1.jpg

Looks like this member from Ionian islands.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315059-Classify-me-(21-y-o-Greek)

Or somewhere between these Cretans.

https://image.fthis.gr/userfiles/articles/AAA_MARCH/kritikos.jpg?w=875&mode=crop&scale=both&quality=85&anchor=topcenter

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WAOneqgA2gQ/maxresdefault.jpg

This is Dinaro-med look very relevant to Crete and probably common all around Balkans before Slavic migrations.

[Bosniensis]

It doesn't matter what he spoke.

https://roberthorvat30.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/justinian-i-1.jpg[/IG]

Looks like this member from Ionian islands.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315059-Classify-me-(21-y-o-Greek)

Or somewhere between these Cretans.

[IMG]https://image.fthis.gr/userfiles/articles/AAA_MARCH/kritikos.jpg?w=875&mode=crop&scale=both&quality=85&anchor=topcenter[/IG]

[IMG]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WAOneqgA2gQ/maxresdefault.jpg

This is Dinaro-med look very relevant to Crete and probably common all around Balkans before Slavic migrations.

That guy has much wider Chin

Vlachs have small mouth, large faces

https://www.novum.ba/cimage/webroot/img.php?src=/userfiles/image/VIJESTI2018/Nejra/02062018/Denis-Becirovic30012015-620x400.jpg&w=1280&crop-to-fit

https://static.scsport.ba/media/2020/02/krstajic-1.jpg
https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p/500x600/354.jpg?v=1485681235
https://cdn.britannica.com/14/12314-050-161308A7/Diocletian-detail-bust-Rome-Capitoline-Museum.jpg
https://glossy.espreso.rs/data/images/2019/05/15/11/259995_1850907-luka01news1dragankadic-ls_ff.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Xee30jmtgEqArldZy_mPnKubS8yXoPn5IVNaN4uzrjBMUC0WeC RNHTbtgIHNkB9IhKNTemGtu2ZtLvmZwOzSGI-bKxmk3crnhftbDZrIhsyuotoTB18xotfP_Nkucviq6H-EbQ

[xripkan]

The guy's listed ancestors' birthplaces:
3/4 Izmir
1/4 Crete

His result:
https://snipboard.io/eLl5gR.jpg

Rest is unassigned, Siberian and Central Asian are 0.


What do you guys think?

Greek Izmir samples at g25 plot between Greek Islanders and Mainlanders. They seem to be a bridge between these two groups.
They have limited West Asian and Slavic-Balkan influence, less than Islanders and Mainlanders respectively.

[Faklon]

https://www.novum.ba/cimage/webroot/img.php?src=/userfiles/image/VIJESTI2018/Nejra/02062018/Denis-Becirovic30012015-620x400.jpg&w=1280&crop-to-fit



Looks like Carpathid straight out of Poland.

Justinian has big lips, bushier eyebrows and his eyes are not deep-set.

All the busts you posted and Justinian look far more closer to this Cretan professor than any of your examples.

https://news.mit.edu/sites/mit.edu.newsoffice/files/styles/news_article_image_top_slideshow/public/images/2018/daskalakis-mit-csail_0.jpeg?itok=n8a8iS25

[Bosniensis]

Looks like Carpathid straight out of Poland.

Justinian has big lips, bushier eyebrows and his eyes are not deep-set.

All the busts you posted and Justinian look far more closer to this Cretan professor than any of your examples.

https://news.mit.edu/sites/mit.edu.newsoffice/files/styles/news_article_image_top_slideshow/public/images/2018/daskalakis-mit-csail_0.jpeg?itok=n8a8iS25


You are obviously trolling, Daskalakis doesn't even look European.

[Kaspias]

Greek Izmir samples at g25 plot between Greek Islanders and Mainlanders. They seem to be a bridge between these two groups.
They have limited West Asian and Slavic-Balkan influence, less than Islanders and Mainlanders respectively.

That sample seems not much reliable, i believe these Greek Izmir samples were not native Greek population of Izmir but Mainlanders.

[Faklon]

You are obviously trolling, Daskalakis doesn't even look European.

You have to understand that you don't have to look White American to look like Justinian or paleo-Balkan folk. Daskalakis doesn't look like a Turk neither, he has very specific features.

[xripkan]

That sample seems not much reliable, i believe these Greek Izmir samples were not native Greek population of Izmir but Mainlanders.

They plot more south to every Greek Mainlnder group and have extra West Asian so they can't be pure Mainlnders.
In general I think these samples are representative to the native Greek population there because the West coast of Anatolia was always in contact with Mainland Greece since the Antiquity.

[Kaspias]

They plot more south to every Greek Mainlnder group and have extra West Asian so they can't be pure Mainlnders.
In general I think these samples are representative to the native Greek population there because the West coast of Anatolia was always in contact with Mainland Greece since the Antiquity.

I will check it later again

[Voskos]

His Y-DNA R1a Z282(which is slavic by origin) is from that one Cretan grandparent (Cretan Turk/muslim from central crete).

[Salonikios]

Unfortunately there is no gedmatch. But his İzmir side has Balkan muhajir ancestry I believe.

[JQP4545]

23andMe isn’t going to show central Asian because it’s Turkish samples are included in Middle Eastern. Turkmens also have a lot of middle Eastern haplogroups and some of their DNA is closer to Iranians than East Asians. I think it is hard to tell how much Turkish DNA is native and how much central Asian.

[Dorian]

They plot more south to every Greek Mainlnder group and have extra West Asian so they can't be pure Mainlnders.
In general I think these samples are representative to the native Greek population there because the West coast of Anatolia was always in contact with Mainland Greece since the Antiquity.

I was reading this and its comments
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/03/coming-of-greeks-to-provence-and.html

and saw this..

"Coastal West Anatolia (the tested area in this study) received migrants from the Greek mainland not only during Ancient times but also during the Ottoman era. In fact, coastal West Anatolian Greeks are overwhelmingly descended from the Ottoman era Orthodox Christian migrants to the West Anatolian coast from the southern Balkans and the Aegean islands according to the historical demographic sources (the original coastal West Anatolian Greek population had mostly been absorbed by the Turks due to mass slavery and conversions mostly during the earlier Anatolian Turkish principilities era). So coastal West Anatolian Greeks are genetically the least Anatolian of all Anatolian Greeks.

Other Anatolian Greeks (who, unfortunately, weren't included in this study), including the Interior West Anatolian Greeks, on the other hand, are much less influenced by the Ottoman era Orthodox Christian migrations from the southern Balkans and the islands and thus much more indigenous to Anatolia."


It's something I've been thinking myself because of this...(keep in mind that it is these guys that later colonized Pontus.)
https://i.postimg.cc/FFy5TfPp/Screenshot-25.jpg

Decided to search a little..
http://en.kms.org.gr/Portals/0/O%20%CE%B5%CE%BE%CE%B9%CF%83%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%BC%CE% B9%CF%83%CE%BC%CF%8C%CF%82%20%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82%20 %CE%9C%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%82%20%CE%91%CF%8 3%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82.pdf

Page 330
"The Hellenism of almost two millions that survived in Asia Minor land until 1922-22 , can be discerned in two categories in respect to its ancestral roots : a)The Greeks of Pontus and Cappadocia - and some areas like Sille and Livisi - they are descendants of old Byzantine Greeks of Asia minor who survived due to their geographical isolation and due to the existence of an independent Greek state in Pontus(until 1461) which preserved Hellenism during the years of islamization. b) The dense Greek communities of Western Asia minor came from migration of Greeks from Aegean islands , Peloponnese and Mainland Greece and who settled there after the Ottoman conquest"

Now ,how fucked up would this be?

[Dick]

Probably was a slave from our lands. Crimean Tatars stole and sold up to 3 million Russians and Slavs within 300 years.

The poor guy must've been a sex slave since he passed on his seed.

[Heaven]

Unfortunately there is no gedmatch. But his İzmir side has Balkan muhajir ancestry I believe.
Muhajir was the word used for Muhammad moving from his native Mecca away. It doesnt apply for Yugoslavian refugees fleeing bad ass Serbs or for Syrians escaping from Assad.

[Salonikios]

Muhajir was the word used for Muhammad moving from his native Mecca away. It doesnt apply for Yugoslavian refugees fleeing bad ass Serbs or for Syrians escaping from Assad.

Ok. We can say Balkan migrants too. But Balkan migrants are culturally close to Turks. Don't you know famous Turkish historian Halil İnalcık says that Balkan Turks are not Slavic but Cumans, Pechenegs and Bulgars that settled in Balkans. Syrians are culturally close to Arabs and Mena people. They are very different than Balkan Turks.

[Bosniensis]

Muhajir was the word used for Muhammad moving from his native Mecca away. It doesnt apply for Yugoslavian refugees fleeing bad ass Serbs or for Syrians escaping from Assad.

Muhajir is an Arab word and as such shouldn't have been used.

Balkan muslims going to constantinople is basically going home to other balkan anatolian converts.

Very few slanted eyes horsefuckers in constantinople bori.

[Leto]

The poor guy must've been a sex slave since he passed on his seed.
Well, some apostates might have become freemen and blended in with the population.

[Zuh]

Well, some apostates might have become freemen and blended in with the population.

Can you please check on this lady and confirm if she really looks by her admixture.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315206-Is-there-such-thing-as-genetic-loterry

[Salonikios]

Well, some apostates might have become freemen and blended in with the population.

Do not forget that there were Slavic tribes in Greece. They went as far as Peloponnese. Maybe some of them went to Crete. Though Slavic influence is not high in Crete.

[Kaspias]

Ok. We can say Balkan migrants too. But Balkan migrants are culturally close to Turks. Don't you know famous Turkish historian Halil İnalcık says that Balkan Turks are not Slavic but Cumans, Pechenegs and Bulgars that settled in Balkans. Syrians are culturally close to Arabs and Mena people. They are very different than Balkan Turks.

Böri doesn't even accept Cumans and Bulgars as Turk :D

Macır(Turkish, derived from Muhajir) word in Turkey represents Balkan Migrators, no any other people like the ones who come from Caucasia use this. You were correct.

[Bosniensis]

Böri doesn't even accept Cumans and Bulgars as Turk :D

Macır(Turkish, derived from Muhajir) word in Turkey represents Balkan Migrators, no any other people like the ones who come from Caucasia use this. You were correct.

why?

Cumans, Bulgars, Avars, Pechengs .. only those people are Turks.

I bet that Bori isn't even a Turk but some Kartvelian convert.

[Kaspias]

why?

Cumans, Bulgars, Avars, Pechengs .. only those people are Turks.

I bet that Bori isn't even a Turk but some Kartvelian convert.

Ask him :D

[Bosniensis]

Ask him :D

He is very angry on me, doesn't want to talk.

Can you tell me :D

[Heaven]

The threads in this forum are sabotaged by a jobless "dick head" from Bosnia who believes that he will change the world by typing some posts, he and his Muslim brothers think that they will destroy Turkish state, confiscate and extort the country of Turks and replace it by an administration like you had in ISIS-controlled zones of Iraq where people scream in Arabic and where you have 10th century style backwardness and chaos.

Same people use a European Cultural Community to support ideas aiming and aspiring at destroying anything about the European culture and changing them to Arab-Muslim ways.

[Kaspias]

He is very angry on me, doesn't want to talk.

Can you tell me :D


Kipchaks are related to Turks, they aren't Turks. All Turkic groups aren't called Turks. In late Middle Ages, there was already a distinction between Turks (inheriting the ethnonym from Altaian Gray Wolves clan) and Kipchaks.
Arab, Rus and Byzantine sources already make the distinction as from late 9th century.

For example, Rus manuscripts explain that Vikings (Ruslar) under Sviatoslav were allied to "Torki" and both fought together against Khazars, Bulgars.

Referring to all Turkic groups as Turks create a situation where boundaries become unclear as regards to who is a Turk.
In Turkey, it has been done intentionally.
It is like Kemalists and Islamists filling Turkey with Muslim migrants and forcing native Turks to consider migrants as Turks with inferior imamist propaganda and then also, incredibly, blaming anyone telling the truth to be "racist". Low IQness belonging to 20th century.
So "Türk" becomes a super natural title, but which is also at the disposal of everyone. Accordingly, even people like the Bosniensis you have here end up having "Turkish identity" at own disposal.

Kipchaks:
Kipchaks defended Georgia from the wrath of Turks. And Kipchaks also killed Pechenegs in Thrace for Byzantine golds. Those are unforgivable deeds. Kipchaks aren't Turks.

[Bosniensis]

...

Basically: Bori: "You are not Turk Kaspias"

Kaspias is the real Turk and he is being denied by the Turks.. hahahhaha

Also Bori thinks I am Islamist .. .WTF?? hahahh

[Aileron]

https://i.hizliresim.com/3g8PY5.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/3g8PY5)

[Heaven]

If you keep typing 24-7, without sleeping, in the end you will succeed in destroying the Turkish state, overruning Turkey with tens of millions of your Muslim brothers.
And as bonus, the European Cristians will all live in line with Sharia principles and providing you with virgins...
Dream.

[Bosniensis]

If you keep typing 24-7, without sleeping, in the end you will succeed in destroying the Turkish state, overruning Turkey with tens of millions of your Muslim brothers.
And as bonus, the European Cristians will all live in line with Sharia principles and providing you with virgins...
Dream.

Bori's Heroes:
Kayzer Wilhem II, Liman Von Sanders, Colmar Freiherr Von Der Goltz

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


love you bori.

[Thracian]

Ok. We can say Balkan migrants too. But Balkan migrants are culturally close to Turks. Don't you know famous Turkish historian Halil İnalcık says that Balkan Turks are not Slavic but Cumans, Pechenegs and Bulgars that settled in Balkans. Syrians are culturally close to Arabs and Mena people. They are very different than Balkan Turks.

Muhajir -in Turkish Muhacır- means Turks who moved to Turkey from Balkans. On the other hand, Balkan migrant has wider meaning and it also contains Non Turkish populations such as Bosniaks and Abanians. There are three type of Balkan Turks in Turkey, 1- Muhajirs, 2- Gajals and 3- Mountaineers.