Which region has the highest amount of north african admixture between Iberia and Sicily ?

[Nassbean]

I'm asking this because now I'm confused I've seen some sicilian results with more than 20% NA. Also is it western sicily that scores the highest amount of NA in south italy ? if yes do you think it has something to do with carthaginians who mainly controlled the western part of the island ?

[Gaska]

I'm asking this because now I'm confused I've seen some sicilian results with more than 20% NA. Also is it western sicily that scores the highest amount of NA in south italy ? if yes do you think it has something to do with carthaginians who mainly controlled the western part of the island ?

I have been here for a short time but enough to see that you are very worried about the percentage of NA in Iberia

Canary Islands-10.2-Iberomaurissian 0,6-West African- Total-10,8-It is the only Spanish region that has a percentage of WA,but obviously I do not know if it is valid as an example because it is Spanish territory in the African continent

Iberian Peninsula

(0-1%)-Spanish Basque- 0%, Barcelonés-0,8%, Catalunya Central-0,4%, Girona-0,9%, la Rioja-0,9%, LLeida-0,8%, Peri-Barcelona-1%, Penedés-1%, Soria-1%, Terres del Ebre-1%

(1-2%)- Menorca-1.2%, Mallorca-1,8%, Navarra-1.6%, Baleares-1.6%, Tarrragona-1.6%, Cantabria, 1,4%, Castellón-1.2%, Pirineos-1,6%

(2-3%)- Aragón-2%, Alicante-2.8%, Castilla la Mancha-2,4%

(3-5%)-Andalucia-4.4%, Asturias-4.4%, Castilla y León 4,8%, Galicia-4,4%

>5%- Extremadura-5.2%, Portugal-5,2%

Curiously, Galicia and Asturias that were always populated by Christians have the same percentage as Granada that was in the hands of the Moors 700 years- Without a doubt Andalusia was effectively repopulated-North and Eastern Iberia, including Aragon and Castilla la Mancha (Madrid etc.) is practically zero north african

Regarding the Bell Beaker culture samples (2,500-2,000 BC), the percentages of NA was around 1%, which shows ancient contacts between Iberia and North Africa at least since the Neolithic-Iberian migrations to Northern Africa were very intense in the chalcolithic with several Moroccan deposits with many European mitochondrial markers.

Sardinia-1,2%, Calabria-0,2%, French Corsica-0,4%,

[Imperator Biff]

I personally haven’t seen any Sicilians score that amount, but generally the average for east Sicilians is something like ~5%.
Maybe a little higher in west Sicilians, who also score some minor amount of Bedouin.
Most of the Berber related ancestry probably coming from Carthaginian settlements and not Aghlabid emirate.

In east Iberians it’s also around ~5%. In west Iberians it’s more like ~10% peaking in Galicians. Most of it is from ummayad rule but some I’d imagine came earlier from Roman and Carthaginian settlements as well.

Basques of course only scoring noise level.

[Jana]

According to this study, North African admixture peaks in Galicia followed by Portugal. 25% NA is way too much for pure Sicilian, that sample is most likely mixed.

https://i.imgur.com/XPMRQT8.png

[Rocinante]

Western sicilians and some other places of South Italy could reach above 20%, eastern sicilians must have around 10% or less, apulians seems to be a similar case. Western iberians could reach 10% but no more than that, the rest of iberians must have in average 4%, but the basques have less than 1%, most cases it's 0.

[Nassbean]

I have been here for a short time but enough to see that you are very worried about the percentage of NA in Iberia

Canary Islands-10.2-Iberomaurissian 0,6-West African- Total-10,8-It is the only Spanish region that has a percentage of WA,but obviously I do not know if it is valid as an example because it is Spanish territory in the African continent

Iberian Peninsula

(0-1%)-Spanish Basque- 0%, Barcelonés-0,8%, Catalunya Central-0,4%, Girona-0,9%, la Rioja-0,9%, LLeida-0,8%, Peri-Barcelona-1%, Penedés-1%, Soria-1%, Terres del Ebre-1%

(1-2%)- Menorca-1.2%, Mallorca-1,8%, Navarra-1.6%, Baleares-1.6%, Tarrragona-1.6%, Cantabria, 1,4%, Castellón-1.2%, Pirineos-1,6%

(2-3%)- Aragón-2%, Alicante-2.8%, Castilla la Mancha-2,4%

(3-5%)-Andalucia-4.4%, Asturias-4.4%, Castilla y León 4,8%, Galicia-4,4%

>5%- Extremadura-5.2%, Portugal-5,2%

Curiously, Galicia and Asturias that were always populated by Christians have the same percentage as Granada that was in the hands of the Moors 700 years- Without a doubt Andalusia was effectively repopulated-North and Eastern Iberia, including Aragon and Castilla la Mancha (Madrid etc.) is practically zero north african

Regarding the Bell Beaker culture samples (2,500-2,000 BC), the percentages of NA was around 1%, which shows ancient contacts between Iberia and North Africa at least since the Neolithic-Iberian migrations to Northern Africa were very intense in the chalcolithic with several Moroccan deposits with many European mitochondrial markers.

Sardinia-1,2%, Calabria-0,2%, French Corsica-0,4%,


Yes I want to know because I'm north african myself and want to know the NA admixture of our neighbours I don't see what's wrong with this. Actually you didn't even answer me I ask for galicia and sicily and your results are clearly false all portuguese results I've seen have at least 8% I doubt 5% is the average. Also Galicia is the region in Spain (excluding canaria) with the highest amount of NA admixture with an average of 10%. You clearly underestimate the NA admixture I've studies to back up my claims here. Moreover yes the south was repopulated by northern settlers especially when you look at roman and medieval samples from south-east iberia they all almost scored 40-50% NA.

[Jana]

Western sicilians and some other places of South Italy could reach above 20%, eastern sicilians must have around 10% or less, apulians seems to be a similar case..

Sound like poor trolling. Post evidence of full Sicilians with 30% North African. Apulians don't score any as far as I know. Neither is south Italy 20% on average, it is less than Portugal and Spain.

[Rocinante]

Sound like poor trolling. Post evidence of full Sicilians with 30% North African. Apulians don't score any as far as I know. Neither is south Italy 20% on average, it is less than Portugal and Spain.

Not 30%, sorry i wrote it accidentally. Also what i meant is all MENA markers, they could reach considerable numbers.

[Nassbean]

I personally haven’t seen any Sicilians score that amount, but generally the average for east Sicilians is something like ~5%.
Maybe a little higher in west Sicilians, who also score some minor amount of Bedouin.
Most of the Berber related ancestry probably coming from Carthaginian settlements and not Aghlabid emirate.

In east Iberians it’s also around ~5%. In west Iberians it’s more like ~10% peaking in Galicians. Most of it is from ummayad rule but some I’d imagine came earlier from Roman and Carthaginian settlements as well.

Basques of course only scoring noise level.

I don't know how accurate myheritage really is but take a look at this how can we explain such a high amount of NA ? it's a guy and his parents :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u8F3fSmV4w&list=FL1diJrylRFPW1ZHvesD6Nig&index=15&t=0s

here another one :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC_AjCxf3Hc

[Cumansky]

I have been here for a short time but enough to see that you are very worried about the percentage of NA in Iberia

Canary Islands-10.2-Iberomaurissian 0,6-West African- Total-10,8-It is the only Spanish region that has a percentage of WA,but obviously I do not know if it is valid as an example because it is Spanish territory in the African continent

Pffffffttttt hahaha lmao

[Cumansky]

I get Galicia in my paid genetic reports BTW

Is a mix African, Sephardic Jewish, Basque roughly speaking

[Cumansky]

Not 30%, sorry i wrote it accidentally. Also what i meant is all MENA markers, they could reach considerable numbers.

Exactly..

[Samnium]

I've seen a Trapani result reaching 9% North-African on 23andme, never seen that with any other european. So Sicilians can have very outlying people but overall there's more NA admixture in Iberia I would say, and Sicilians have strong influences from East Med/Caucasus region more than North-African or Arabian.

Why Trapani score more North-African ? Likely Arab Era and Punic heritage. Don't forget that Trapani is close to Palermo that was a very important city for Arabs in Sicily. Also, one thing, people from all the Middle-East and North-Africa came to Sicily and not all were expelled, some of them (actually many) were also assimilated and there were Egyptians, Berbers, Levantines and even Arabs.

It's true that Normans ended the Emirate of Sicily but it's also true that Federick II of Hohenstaufen kept Arab scholars, musicists, scientists to his court.

[Rocinante]

I get Galicia in my paid genetic reports BTW

Is a mix African, Sephardic Jewish, Basque roughly speaking

No sir, that's not true.

[Tauromachos]

Maybe some people Non Mainland Iberians i mean people from Spanish or Portugese speaking Islands between Iberia and Africa

[Cumansky]

No sir, that's not true.

Call me Tariq from now, if I wasn't an I my other Grandfather was E haplo

And in this order: Basque (which encompass Celtiberian admixture white people European), Sephardic Jewish (possible other Jewish), African (Iberomaurusian sample is SSA admixed already)

[Samnium]

Call me Tariq from now, if I wasn't an I my other Grandfather was E haplo

And in this order: Basque (which encompass Celtiberian admixture white people European), Sephardic Jewish (possible other Jewish), African (Iberomaurusian sample is SSA admixed already)

I've heard a lot about the famous conversos in Spain but I'm still waiting to see one. But generally speaking as Italy we don't have lot of samples coming from Spain so there are surely a substantial portion that will have some "back" jewish ancestry. Even if in most cases it's probably "diluted" nowadays.

[Cumansky]

I've heard a lot about the famous conversos in Spain but I'm still waiting to see one. But generally speaking as Italy we don't have lot of samples coming from Spain so there are surely a substantial portion that will have some "back" jewish ancestry. Even if in most cases it's probably "diluted" nowadays.

I just check in my matches to see these converso, they are all there, you know their names all very common in Southern Europe and beyond

Ferreira, etc

[Rocinante]

Call me Tariq from now, if I wasn't an I my other Grandfather was E haplo

And in this order: Basque (which encompass Celtiberian admixture white people European), Sephardic Jewish (possible other Jewish), African (Iberomaurusian sample is SSA admixed already)

Basques are not celtiberians, they are an unmixed iberian tribe. Galicians are mainly celtiberians, with suebi, ibero-marussian and slight roman.

[Cumansky]

Basques are not celtiberians, they are an unmixed iberian tribe. Galicians are mainly celtiberians, with suebi, ibero-marussian and slight roman.

I don't think so buddy, but there is definitely some small amount of Northern European input in Iberia however it got sexually distributed, probably the Gothic and Vandalic rape squads, possibly Scythians too

[Rocinante]

I don't think so buddy, but there is definitely some small amount of Northern European input in Iberia however it got sexually distributed, probably the Gothic and Vandalic rape squads, possibly Scythians too

Goths didn't have a real impact in the galicians, they were ruled more time by the suebis. If you don't believe me, it's ok. But just saying that I'm 3/4 northwestern iberian and i saw a lot of galicians K15 and K36. I know what i am talking about.

[Gaska]

Yes I want to know because I'm north african myself and want to know the NA admixture of our neighbours I don't see what's wrong with this. Actually you didn't even answer me I ask for galicia and sicily and your results are clearly false all portuguese results I've seen have at least 8% I doubt 5% is the average. Also Galicia is the region in Spain (excluding canaria) with the highest amount of NA admixture with an average of 10%. You clearly underestimate the NA admixture I've studies to back up my claims here. Moreover yes the south was repopulated by northern settlers especially when you look at roman and medieval samples from south-east iberia they all almost scored 40-50% NA.

I don't know what sources you use, but they are certainly wrong because those percentages are from a recent doctoral thesis with more than 10,000 samples throughout Spain so be careful what you say about their falsehood-I don´t clearley understimate nothing, next time try abstaining from saying such bullshit-

In addition, if you knew some genetics, you would understand that to find out when that percentage entered the Iberian Peninsula, you have to study all the ancient genomes available, and interestingly, that small African percentage that sometimes reaches 1% in the chalcolithic remains almost constant until the arrival of the Romans. Then it is clear that the Muslim invasion (711) left hardly a genetic trail in the north and east of the peninsula while in the west except in Extremadura it does not reach 5%. This is one of the most interesting genetic discussions in Spain because nobody can explain at the moment why Galicia has a 4.4% NA if the Moors were never there.

It seems very good to me that you show interest in the genetics of your neighbors, but do not lie about the percentages- Now the Spaniards are much more tolerant but you have to understand that we do not have much sympathy for the Moors-We don't have very good memories of our African neighbors, because we had to fight hundreds of years against them. In my village we still have the ruins of a convent burned by Almanzor, so it is normal for a Spaniard to get angry if you use false data about it.

[Samnium]

I don't think so buddy, but there is definitely some small amount of Northern European input in Iberia however it got sexually distributed, probably the Gothic and Vandalic rape squads, possibly Scythians too

What do you say to that ?

Target: Spanish_Pirineu
Distance: 3.0275% / 0.03027515
50.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
Distance: 3.5380% / 0.03538046
53.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Penedes
Distance: 3.3723% / 0.03372271
55.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
44.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 3.0092% / 0.03009165
50.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Navarra
Distance: 3.4553% / 0.03455276
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Murcia
Distance: 4.2525% / 0.04252540
50.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Menorca
Distance: 4.3386% / 0.04338631
50.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Mallorca
Distance: 4.0465% / 0.04046472
54.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
45.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Lleida
Distance: 3.2870% / 0.03286980
53.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_La_Rioja
Distance: 3.0406% / 0.03040568
57.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
42.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 4.1672% / 0.04167167
52.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Extremadura
Distance: 4.7021% / 0.04702144
51.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Eivissa
Distance: 4.3468% / 0.04346828
52.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
Distance: 3.1767% / 0.03176744
53.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
46.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 3.2910% / 0.03291040
52.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
Distance: 4.4761% / 0.04476076
52.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 3.8065% / 0.03806517
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Castello
Distance: 2.9970% / 0.02997001
50.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Cantabria
Distance: 3.1258% / 0.03125835
51.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Canarias
Distance: 6.9588% / 0.06958773
52.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
47.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
Distance: 3.3396% / 0.03339579
54.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
46.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Barcelones
Distance: 3.2815% / 0.03281476
54.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
45.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Baleares
Distance: 4.2175% / 0.04217514
52.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Asturias
Distance: 4.7574% / 0.04757434
51.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Aragon
Distance: 3.5340% / 0.03533986
50.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Andalucia
Distance: 4.3382% / 0.04338248
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Alacant
Distance: 3.9519% / 0.03951942
52.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Bell_Beaker NLD clustering more Northern than modern Scandinavians, just saying.

[Rocinante]

What do you say to that ?

Target: Spanish_Pirineu
Distance: 3.0275% / 0.03027515
50.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
Distance: 3.5380% / 0.03538046
53.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Penedes
Distance: 3.3723% / 0.03372271
55.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
44.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 3.0092% / 0.03009165
50.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Navarra
Distance: 3.4553% / 0.03455276
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Murcia
Distance: 4.2525% / 0.04252540
50.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Menorca
Distance: 4.3386% / 0.04338631
50.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Mallorca
Distance: 4.0465% / 0.04046472
54.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
45.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Lleida
Distance: 3.2870% / 0.03286980
53.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_La_Rioja
Distance: 3.0406% / 0.03040568
57.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
42.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 4.1672% / 0.04167167
52.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Extremadura
Distance: 4.7021% / 0.04702144
51.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Eivissa
Distance: 4.3468% / 0.04346828
52.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
Distance: 3.1767% / 0.03176744
53.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
46.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 3.2910% / 0.03291040
52.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
Distance: 4.4761% / 0.04476076
52.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 3.8065% / 0.03806517
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Castello
Distance: 2.9970% / 0.02997001
50.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Cantabria
Distance: 3.1258% / 0.03125835
51.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Canarias
Distance: 6.9588% / 0.06958773
52.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
47.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
Distance: 3.3396% / 0.03339579
54.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
46.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Barcelones
Distance: 3.2815% / 0.03281476
54.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
45.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Baleares
Distance: 4.2175% / 0.04217514
52.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Asturias
Distance: 4.7574% / 0.04757434
51.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Aragon
Distance: 3.5340% / 0.03533986
50.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Andalucia
Distance: 4.3382% / 0.04338248
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Alacant
Distance: 3.9519% / 0.03951942
52.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Bell_Beaker NLD clustering more Northern than modern Scandinavians, just saying.

Where can i find that g25 modeling?

[Cumansky]

Goths didn't have a real impact in the galicians, they were ruled more time by the suebis. If you don't believe me, it's ok. But just saying that I'm 3/4 northwestern iberian and i saw a lot of galicians K15 and K36. I know what i am talking about.

I believe you, Suebi I heard of that Barbarian tribe going to the Iberian Peninsula, but how much can these Barbarians really leave in terms of genetic? You know is lower end of your genetic

Basques, I use them in many of my calculators, Basque admixture is getting picked up all around Europe and even non-Europeans showing. Basque is a diverse sample but also has a distinct origin because of their communication language shows to have some distinct characteristics

[Samnium]

Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD

0.03463511 Icelandic
0.03663791 Norwegian
0.03665182 Swedish
0.04043258 Orcadian
0.04054541 Irish
0.04144717 Scottish
0.04165060 Shetlandic
0.04191246 Dutch
0.04655772 English
0.04682025 Welsh
0.04984215 English_Cornwall
0.05172174 German
0.05199097 French_Brittany
0.05272974 German_East
0.05471590 Czech
0.06045254 Slovakian
0.06095871 Austrian
0.06202049 Finnish
0.06269363 Hungarian
0.06276326 Polish
0.06286551 Belgian
0.06666054 French_Nord
0.06688260 Ingrian
0.06759967 Ukrainian
0.06799847 Russian_Orel

Distance to: Iberia_Southwest_MLN
0.05798519 Sardinian
0.09376381 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.10063295 Basque_Spanish
0.10579225 Basque_French
0.10826317 French_South
0.10877696 Spanish_Navarra
0.10902770 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.10938071 Spanish_Castello
0.10964086 Spanish_Pirineu
0.11018070 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.11029499 Spanish_Aragon
0.11069855 Spanish_Murcia
0.11100177 Spanish_Valencia
0.11117651 Spanish_Cantabria
0.11201650 Spanish_Andalucia
0.11263158 Spanish_Menorca
0.11283650 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.11331921 French_Corsica
0.11351717 Spanish_Soria
0.11393565 Spanish_Cataluna
0.11456594 Spanish_Lleida
0.11465751 Spanish_Alacant
0.11484382 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.11530998 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.11591565 Spanish_Extremadura


Where can i find that g25 modeling?

You have just to use the scaled averages :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F2rKEVtu8nWSm7qFhxPU6UESQNsmA-sl/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZr-UOve0KUKo_Qbgeo27m-CQncZWb8y/view

I've made it one model rapidly, I think you can find even better sources for the Neolithic ancestry to improve the fit but that was not my objective here.

[Cumansky]

What do you say to that ?

Target: Spanish_Pirineu
Distance: 3.0275% / 0.03027515
50.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
Distance: 3.5380% / 0.03538046
53.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Penedes
Distance: 3.3723% / 0.03372271
55.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
44.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 3.0092% / 0.03009165
50.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Navarra
Distance: 3.4553% / 0.03455276
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Murcia
Distance: 4.2525% / 0.04252540
50.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Menorca
Distance: 4.3386% / 0.04338631
50.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Mallorca
Distance: 4.0465% / 0.04046472
54.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
45.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Lleida
Distance: 3.2870% / 0.03286980
53.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_La_Rioja
Distance: 3.0406% / 0.03040568
57.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
42.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 4.1672% / 0.04167167
52.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Extremadura
Distance: 4.7021% / 0.04702144
51.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Eivissa
Distance: 4.3468% / 0.04346828
52.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
Distance: 3.1767% / 0.03176744
53.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
46.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 3.2910% / 0.03291040
52.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
Distance: 4.4761% / 0.04476076
52.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 3.8065% / 0.03806517
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Castello
Distance: 2.9970% / 0.02997001
50.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Cantabria
Distance: 3.1258% / 0.03125835
51.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Canarias
Distance: 6.9588% / 0.06958773
52.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
47.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
Distance: 3.3396% / 0.03339579
54.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
46.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Barcelones
Distance: 3.2815% / 0.03281476
54.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
45.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Baleares
Distance: 4.2175% / 0.04217514
52.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
47.4 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Asturias
Distance: 4.7574% / 0.04757434
51.2 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.8 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Aragon
Distance: 3.5340% / 0.03533986
50.4 Bell_Beaker_NLD
49.6 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Target: Spanish_Andalucia
Distance: 4.3382% / 0.04338248
50.2 Iberia_Southwest_MLN
49.8 Bell_Beaker_NLD

Target: Spanish_Alacant
Distance: 3.9519% / 0.03951942
52.0 Bell_Beaker_NLD
48.0 Iberia_Southwest_MLN

Bell_Beaker NLD clustering more Northern than modern Scandinavians, just saying.

Bellbeakers can be anything under the sun, never use Bellbeakers in ancient models, rookie mistake

[Adamastor]

...

You are wrong, you are using Iberomaurusian score in G25 samples to measure North African admxiture. But North Africans don't have only Iberomaurusian, they also score Sardinian and Levant-type of admixture. Actually they have more Sardinian than Iberomaurusian.

So the real North African admixture for someone scoring 5% Iberomaurusian considering that North Africans don't even have 40% of it is much higher. There is no way most Galicians, Extremadurans and Portuguese are only 5% North African. All peer-reviewed papers put them at 9-12%.


Answering the OP: Sicilian average is less North African than Iberia, but in Sicily you can find individuals with up to 20% North African admixture, in Iberia it's rare or even impossible, the most North African an Iberian can get is around 10-12% IMO.

[Cumansky]

Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD

0.03463511 Icelandic
0.03663791 Norwegian
0.03665182 Swedish
0.04043258 Orcadian
0.04054541 Irish
0.04144717 Scottish
0.04165060 Shetlandic
0.04191246 Dutch
0.04655772 English
0.04682025 Welsh
0.04984215 English_Cornwall
0.05172174 German
0.05199097 French_Brittany
0.05272974 German_East
0.05471590 Czech
0.06045254 Slovakian
0.06095871 Austrian
0.06202049 Finnish
0.06269363 Hungarian
0.06276326 Polish
0.06286551 Belgian
0.06666054 French_Nord
0.06688260 Ingrian
0.06759967 Ukrainian
0.06799847 Russian_Orel

Distance to: Iberia_Southwest_MLN
0.05798519 Sardinian
0.09376381 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.10063295 Basque_Spanish
0.10579225 Basque_French
0.10826317 French_South
0.10877696 Spanish_Navarra
0.10902770 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.10938071 Spanish_Castello
0.10964086 Spanish_Pirineu
0.11018070 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.11029499 Spanish_Aragon
0.11069855 Spanish_Murcia
0.11100177 Spanish_Valencia
0.11117651 Spanish_Cantabria
0.11201650 Spanish_Andalucia
0.11263158 Spanish_Menorca
0.11283650 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.11331921 French_Corsica
0.11351717 Spanish_Soria
0.11393565 Spanish_Cataluna
0.11456594 Spanish_Lleida
0.11465751 Spanish_Alacant
0.11484382 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.11530998 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.11591565 Spanish_Extremadura



You have just to use the scaled averages :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F2rKEVtu8nWSm7qFhxPU6UESQNsmA-sl/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZr-UOve0KUKo_Qbgeo27m-CQncZWb8y/view

I've made it one model rapidly, I think you can find even better sources for the Neolithic ancestry to improve the fit but that was not my objective here.

Lol all those modern samples are close with each other, Slovaks and Hungarians 1/4 Jewish

Look at their Eucliedean distance buddy is like 2-3% disparity

[Adamastor]

This Cumansky is a dumb troll btw.

[Rocinante]

I believe you, Suebi I heard of that Barbarian tribe going to the Iberian Peninsula, but how much can these Barbarians really leave in terms of genetic? You know is lower end of your genetic

Basques, I use them in many of my calculators, Basque admixture is getting picked up all around Europe and even non-Europeans showing. Basque is a diverse sample but also has a distinct origin because of their communication language shows to have some distinct characteristics

Well for example, what differs galicians k15 to a Spanish average k15? Galician will have higher Northsea/baltic component because suebi and higher eastmed/northeastafrican because ibero-marussian.

[Gaska]

Call me Tariq from now, if I wasn't an I my other Grandfather was E haplo

And in this order: Basque (which encompass Celtiberian admixture white people European), Sephardic Jewish (possible other Jewish), African (Iberomaurusian sample is SSA admixed already)

Hi Tariq, what do you mean about the Canary Islands?
Basques encompass celtiberian admixture? Who told you that?
What planet do you live on? Do you know what a celtiberian is? Do you know what their uniparental markers were?
Do you know in which regions of Spain they settled?

[Cumansky]

This Cumansky is a dumb troll btw.

Ok, I don't care, I just tell you the facts if you can't handle you can't handle

Zlatan is better than Ronaldo, most people can't handle facts, is part of life to deal with harsh reality

[Samnium]

Bellbeaker can be anything under the sun, never use Bell Beakers in ancient models, rookie mistake

Well they can be anything but have you seen the distances and where the Bell Beaker plot ?

He's more northern than the North-Western cluster even (green dot) :
https://i.imgur.com/MNcOIyt.png

[Imperator Biff]

Basques are not celtiberians, they are an unmixed iberian tribe. Galicians are mainly celtiberians, with suebi, ibero-marussian and slight roman.

But they are ultimately closer to celtiberians and IA populations in general as they lack any east med or moorish ancestry unlike Galicians, even if Galicians have a higher amount of celtiberian.

[Cumansky]

Hi Tariq, what do you mean about the Canary Islands?
Basques encompass celtiberian admixture? Who told you that?
What planet do you live on? Do you know what a celtiberian is? Do you know what their uniparental markers were?
Do you know in which regions of Spain they settled?

I'm a Moor, idgaf to be honest, if I have some traces from Celtiberians than one of my ancestors was moving haram

[Samnium]

You are wrong, you are using Iberomaurusian score in G25 samples to measure North African admxiture. But North Africans don't have only Iberomaurusian, they also score Sardinian and Levant-type of admixture. Actually they have more Sardinian than Iberomaurusian.

So the real North African admixture for someone scoring 5% Iberomaurusian considering that North Africans don't even have 40% of it is much higher. There is no way most Galicians, Extremadurans and Portuguese are only 5% North African. All peer-reviewed papers put them at 9-12%.


Answering the OP: Sicilian average is less North African than Iberia, but in Sicily you can find individuals with up to 20% North African admixture, in Iberia it's rare or even impossible, the most North African an Iberian can get is around 10-12% IMO.

20% North-African sicilians don't exist honestly, never seen one, even the 9% NA 23andme Trapani result is very atypical and the highest I've ever seen even in Gedmatch (I have her results).

This individual is surely mixed, even Maltese don't reach these scores, and they have a lot more berber ancenstry than a regular sicilian.

[Cumansky]

Well they can be anything but have you seen the distances and where the Bell Beaker plot ?

He's more northern than the North-Western cluster even (green dot) :
https://i.imgur.com/MNcOIyt.png

Plot is for rookies, it has numerous variables that can be manipulated

Wog Meds think plotting is Holy Book, it is just one tool that you are misinterpret for its main purpose of comparing similar samples to see where is there deviance from the rest of the group

[Gota_type_]

According to this study, North African admixture peaks in Galicia followed by Portugal. 25% NA is way too much for pure Sicilian, that sample is most likely mixed.

https://i.imgur.com/XPMRQT8.png

Again with the stupid maps. I highly doubt that more than 100-200 persons have ever been DNA tested for this scientific paper in ALL of Spain, let alone trying to represent 47000000 of Spaniards. Even more, I am quite sure that they chose the more "ethnic" looking people to fullfill their goal (it would be stupid in a scientific paper to not take the most extreme looking dark Med Spaniards).

Anyways, all this discussion is extremely retarded. The NorthAfrican is present in ALL European countries. Just check the Eurogenes K15 spreadsheets. They have 0.40% in Germany, 0.50 in Austria, 0.35 in Netherlands, and so on. These % just represent ANCIENT COMMON ANCESTRY (5000 years old or more) with northafricans. Northafricans are part caucasoids, so these is where this northafrican appears. Or just because Germany gets 0.50% does it mean that they were ruled by northafricans?? And Austria, or Netherlands? Again, it is a matter of labels of segments and their representation today in modern groups.

Why Spain has more and why inside Spain it is the most endogamic (isolated) places the ones that get the higher amount of "northafrican" (Galicia, Asturias)?? Just with this you could see that this has nothing to do with the islamic invasion on 711 since zero muslims went to Asturias or Galicia. Even more, Galicia and Asturias are the most homogeneous regions in Spain, and that is why they still show the % of the most ancient DNA groups. That is why in Andalucia they have a very little "northafrican" score, because andalucians are a heavy mix of all Spaniards (and some inputs from other european countries).

Why Germany or Austria have lower Northafrican %? Because since they are in central Europe they have been receiving many genetic inputs from many different people, and thus they have diluted more their ancient blood. And this is why in Spain, the most endogamic-homogeneous regions still score higher despite having zero muslims ever.

So, the Northafrican means COMMON ANCESTRY between caucasoid groups, and NOT ADMIXTURE as most people like to pursue with their obscure agendas.

It is like this mongolian that gets a % of Finnish. So, when were the Finnish people living and ruling Mongolia?? Never. It just means that Finnish and Mongolians share a % of ancient blood, but it does not mean that mongolians and finnish mixed in the past.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjcQuLfoic

[Cumansky]

Well for example, what differs galicians k15 to a Spanish average k15? Galician will have higher Northsea/baltic component because suebi and higher eastmed/northeastafrican because ibero-marussian.

Probably that makes sense

[Rocinante]

But they are ultimately closer to celtiberians and IA populations in general as they lack any east med or moorish ancestry unlike Galicians, even if Galicians have a higher amount of celtiberian.

Of course, they are close to celtiberians because they are a pure iberian tribe, in spanish celtas + íberos = celtíberos, pure iberos are the basques, they all have a common ancestry. Galicians are the less celtiberian cause of the suebi and ibero-marussian, also a suspicious pinch of roman ancestry i saw in the k36 and k15.

[Samnium]

Plot is for rookies, it has numerous variables that can be manipulated

Wog Meds think plotting is Holy Book, it is just one tool that you are misinterpret for its main purpose of comparing similar samples to see where is there deviance from the rest of the group

Plot with several dozens of samples (like this) is pretty reliable, the PCA and the position of the dots are affected also by the number of samples that you put in, stil it's a 2D plot but it gives a good idea of how the Dutch Bell Beaker was, so saying that Spaniards haven't "northern admixture" is dumb.

[Rocinante]

Probably that makes sense

It's a vague explanation but hope it clarified, my mate Tariq.

[Cumansky]

Basque are Wog too, maybe compared with other Wog Meds they are the "white ones"

Compare them with Northeast Europeans from near Baltic coast and they are Wogs

[Gota_type_]

. Then it is clear that the Muslim invasion (711) left hardly a genetic trail in the north and east of the peninsula while in the west except in Extremadura it does not reach 5%. This is one of the most interesting genetic discussions in Spain because nobody can explain at the moment why Galicia has a 4.4% NA if the Moors were never there.



It is quite obvious that it is an ancient component that is shown more in more isolated populations (like Galicians). If they have been mixing just between galicians (and they are quite similar in DNA segments) these would mean that their ancient composition is better maintained today than those of a population (like Andalucia) that is the result of many different population groups mixing (and that is why Andalucians score very little "northafrican").

And again, it is common ancestry and not admixture. LIke you can see with the Mongolian video saying she has ancestry from Finland. It is just a matter of labels. Someone today tried to put name to some DNA segments that today they are quite common in northafrica, so he labels those segments as "northafrican". If a Spaniard has the same segments, they will say that he is part "northafrican", when in fact, it could be the other way around (that it is "Spanish" ancient blood in northafricans, or that both groups carry some DNA segments from a common ancestor).

[Jana]

...

Academic papers >>> Your opinion. And no, it is not common caucasoid ancestry, otherwise all Europeans would score it but they don't.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Map_of_African_admixture_in_European_populations.p ng

[Adamastor]

20% North-African sicilians don't exist honestly, never seen one, even the 9% NA 23andme Trapani result is very atypical and the highest I've ever seen even in Gedmatch (I have her results).

This individual is surely mixed, even Maltese don't reach these scores, and they have a lot more berber ancenstry than a regular sicilian.

23andme gives less North African than what the person really has. Commercial calculators only pick ancestry in the last 500 years (that's why I think their percentages of MENA to SOuth Euros are really strange). Someone scoring 9% on 23andme would have more than double in reality.

West Iberians only score 2-5% MENA on 23andme, but we know they have up to 10% North African.

[Cumansky]

Plot with several dozens of samples (like this) is pretty reliable, stil it's a 2D plot but it gives a good idea of how the Dutch Bell Beaker was, so saying that Spaniards haven't "northern admixture" is dumb.

I said they have Northern already man, just my assumption is that is lower than you people are imagining, visualizing, fetishizing, etc

[Gota_type_]

Basque are Wog too, maybe compared with other Wog Meds they are the "white ones"

Compare them with Northeast Europeans from near Baltic coast and they are Wogs

NorthEast Europeans near the Baltic coast are REAL wogs, since they have a lot more % of asian-mongoloid-uralic blood than any Spaniard-Italian has ""northafrican"", taking into consideration, that the "northafrican" blood is 100% caucasoid but the asian is a complete different race. Even Putin is a Euro-Asian mestizo. Putin is a nonwhite:

https://www.transform-network.net/fileadmin/_processed_/3/7/csm_vladimir_putin__2017-07-08__266f06177e.jpg

[Samnium]

23andme gives less North African than what the person really has. Commercial calculators only pick ancestry in the last 500 years (that's why I think their percentages of MENA to SOuth Euros are really strange). Someone scoring 9% on 23andme would have more than double in reality.

West Iberians only score 2-5% MENA on 23andme, but we know they have up to 10% North African.

She doesn't scored 18% North-African on Gedmatch.

[Gota_type_]

23andme gives less North African than what the person really has. Commercial calculators only pick ancestry in the last 500 years (that's why I think their percentages of MENA to SOuth Euros are really strange). Someone scoring 9% on 23andme would have more than double in reality.

West Iberians only score 2-5% MENA on 23andme, but we know they have up to 10% North African.

LOL. Most of the Spanish examples on 23andme that I have seen (and I have seen a few hundreds) score 0% "Northafrican" in 23andme, me is one of the examples. I am 100% European, most of it Spanish.

Can you tell us why all Europeans get "northafrican"?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Can you tell us when did the muslim rule Germany or Austria? Can you get the easy idea that the "northafrican" just means common caucasoid ancestry between northafricans and Europeans and not mixing?? It is the same when any European get Red Sea or even some Scandinavians get "Amerindian". When did the aztecs lived in Sweden?? When did the jordans lived in Germany?? Can you understand the concept of COMMON ANCESTRY among populations instead of mixing groups? It is not that difficult.

[mitalit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri_N33K3FXc Sicily obviously

[Cumansky]

NorthEast Europeans near the Baltic coast are REAL wogs, since they have a lot more % of asian-mongoloid-uralic blood than any Spaniard-Italian has ""northafrican"", taking into consideration, that the "northafrican" blood is 100% caucasoid but the asian is a complete different race. Even Putin is a Euro-Asian mestizo. Putin is a nonwhite:

https://www.transform-network.net/fileadmin/_processed_/3/7/csm_vladimir_putin__2017-07-08__266f06177e.jpg

Lmao

Back to the topic at hand, look man, genetically I'm 65% Northeast and 35% Iberian, let's not worry about Northeast because you don't know what those people are either

Being 35% Iberian genetically speaking, after creating over 20 research calculators and serving 1000s of users, I can tell you I'm 7-8% African from the continent of Africa, out of 35% Iberian, but I am Moor not everyone is a Moor

[Adamastor]

LOL. Most of the Spanish examples on 23andme that I have seen (and I have seen a few hundreds) score 0% "Northafrican" in 23andme, me is one of the examples. I am 100% European, most of it Spanish.

Can you tell us why all Europeans get "northafrican"?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Can you tell us when did the muslim rule Germany or Austria? Can you get the easy idea that the "northafrican" just means common caucasoid ancestry between northafricans and Europeans and not mixing?? It is the same when any European get Red Sea or even some Scandinavians get "Amerindian". When did the aztecs lived in Sweden?? When did the jordans lived in Germany?? Can you understand the concept of COMMON ANCESTRY among populations instead of mixing groups? It is not that difficult.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Leto]

NorthEast Europeans near the Baltic coast are REAL wogs, since they have a lot more % of asian-mongoloid-uralic blood than any Spaniard-Italian has ""northafrican"", taking into consideration, that the "northafrican" blood is 100% caucasoid but the asian is a complete different race. Even Putin is a Euro-Asian mestizo. Putin is a nonwhite:

First of all, Cumansky isn't Russian, you idiot. Secondly he didn't even mention Russians specifically as the area "near the Baltic coast" isn't not even the core Russian territory. Thirdly, "wog" means swarthy, brown, etc. Even full Asian people are never called "wog".
Putin in 1998, not very "Asian" to me
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/RIAN_archive_100306_Vladimir_Putin%2C_Federal_Secu rity_Service_Director.jpg/313px-RIAN_archive_100306_Vladimir_Putin%2C_Federal_Secu rity_Service_Director.jpg

I am Russian/Belorussian, my mom is quite Eastern, so on Gedmatch I score ca. 6% East Eurasian. However we in our family look very European, everyone who saw my photos on this site can confirm it. Am I a wog to you?

[Leto]

I'd rather be 20% Japanese than 5% Jigaboo to be honest.

[Jana]

:1127::cheer_icoon:

[Gota_type_]

Academic papers >>> Your opinion. And no, it is not common caucasoid ancestry, otherwise all Europeans would score it but they don't.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Map_of_African_admixture_in_European_populations.p ng

Show the scientific papers and not the maps.

Again, it is common ancestry, and not admixture. And common ancestry between 100% caucasoid groups. Uralid is completely Asian and most Eastern Europeans get it. Siberian is asian and most Scandinavians get it. East Med and others means the same as "northafrican" and ALL European get them.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-N.gif

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/West-Asian-admixture.gif

So, the rest of Europe is full of mutts, do you agree? Or you just cherrypick what only suits to you.

And I have never seen any scientific paper that say that Spain has subsaharan blood. Unless you mistake old ancient common ancestry with real mixing, since most Europeans get subsaharan in different proportion, even in Sweden:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

[Cumansky]

I'd rather be 20% Japanese than 5% Jigaboo to be honest.

Your both haha

[Rocinante]

LOL. Most of the Spanish examples on 23andme that I have seen (and I have seen a few hundreds) score 0% "Northafrican" in 23andme, me is one of the examples. I am 100% European, most of it Spanish.

Can you tell us why all Europeans get "northafrican"?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Can you tell us when did the muslim rule Germany or Austria? Can you get the easy idea that the "northafrican" just means common caucasoid ancestry between northafricans and Europeans and not mixing?? It is the same when any European get Red Sea or even some Scandinavians get "Amerindian". When did the aztecs lived in Sweden?? When did the jordans lived in Germany?? Can you understand the concept of COMMON ANCESTRY among populations instead of mixing groups? It is not that difficult.

Tienes tu k15 a mano? Por curiosidad.

[Leto]

Your both haha
I'm zero Jigaboo. It's you who keeps posting imputed shit with 3% SSA only because you love rap and basketball.

[Jana]

Show the scientific papers and not the maps.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/12/250191

Ofcourse vast majority of Europeans don't score any SSA. Some Iberians do, however most do not. North African is different story.



"A very small (0.2%) but statistically non-zero contribution from sub-Saharan Africa is present for just one cluster (red triangles), which contains individuals largely from Portugal and regions of southern Iberia, such as Andalucia, and Murcia."

Maybe you should read actual papers instead of trolling.

[Gota_type_]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

I am glad that you are happy. Some have pictured you right now:
https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/resources/images/3029295.jpg




First of all, Cumansky isn't Russian, you idiot. Secondly he didn't even mention Russians specifically as the area "near the Baltic coast" isn't not even the core Russian territory. Thirdly, "wog" means swarthy, brown, etc. Even full Asian people are never called "wog".
Putin in 1998, not very "Asian" to me
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/RIAN_archive_100306_Vladimir_Putin%2C_Federal_Secu rity_Service_Director.jpg/313px-RIAN_archive_100306_Vladimir_Putin%2C_Federal_Secu rity_Service_Director.jpg

I am Russian/Belorussian, my mom is quite Eastern, so on Gedmatch I score ca. 6% East Eurasian. However we in our family look very European, everyone who saw my photos on this site can confirm it. Am I a wog to you?

When did I insulted you, retard? I chose russians as I could have chose Lithuanians, it is an example that suits the same argument.

Wog means a non-white in any case, so it is the same to use it to portrait amerindians from Mexico or chink russians.

Putin looks asian in most pictures, denying it shows how retarded you are.

6% East Eurasian. LOL. Most people from Spain get 0% northafrican. I am 100% Western European. So, for me you are a wog, despite looking, as you say, "very European", as Putin I imagine.

[Jana]

Lithuanians are almost entirely devoid of any east eurasian autosomal admixture. Along with Latvians, they have highest amount of native European mesolithic ancestry. Another fail.

[Cumansky]

I'm zero Jigaboo. It's you who keeps posting imputed shit with 3% SSA only because you love rap and basketball.

No, I'm 7-8% African my Mother is 12% and my Father is 2-3%

Someone in your family has Red Sea markers 2-3% I forget exactly but your Russian and you have it too diluted alot cause your a Mongolian

[Gaska]

First of all, Cumansky isn't Russian, you idiot. Secondly he didn't even mention Russians specifically as the area "near the Baltic coast" isn't not even the core Russian territory. Thirdly, "wog" means swarthy, brown, etc. Even full Asian people are never called "wog".
Putin in 1998, not very "Asian" to me
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/RIAN_archive_100306_Vladimir_Putin%2C_Federal_Secu rity_Service_Director.jpg/313px-RIAN_archive_100306_Vladimir_Putin%2C_Federal_Secu rity_Service_Director.jpg

I am Russian/Belorussian, my mom is quite Eastern, so on Gedmatch I score ca. 6% East Eurasian. However we in our family look very European, everyone who saw my photos on this site can confirm it. Am I a wog to you?

What means very European?

[Adamastor]

I am glad that you are happy. Some have pictured you right now:
https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/resources/images/3029295.jpg





When did I insulted you, retard? I chose russians as I could have chose Lithuanians, it is an example that suits the same argument.

Wog means a non-white in any case, so it is the same to use it to portrait amerindians from Mexico or chink russians.

Putin looks asian in most pictures, denying it shows how retarded you are.

6% East Eurasian. LOL. Most people from Spain get 0% northafrican. I am 100% Western European. So, for me you are a wog, despite looking, as you say, "very European", as Putin I imagine.

Can you post your Eurogenes K15 or K13? Also post Gedrosia K3, that's the calculator that inflates the most SSA and East_Eurasian. Let's see how much you will score.

[Samnium]

Anyway denying North-African in Spaniards it's like denying East Med influence in Italians : it's laughable and ridiculously not proved scientifically.

[Gota_type_]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/12/250191

Ofcourse vast majority of Europeans don't score any SSA. Some Iberians do, however most do not. North African is different story.



Maybe you should read actual papers instead of trolling.

You should get some brain instead of trolling. That is 1 study that it is focused in Iberia. I would like to see the exact methodology for the rest of Europe and they will show "northafrican", "subsaharian", uralid" and others in different proportions. Not getting the idea that when someone write a scientific paper HE TRIES to get the goal that he is pursuing. If he tries to focus in "different migrations in Iberia" and he finds none, his study will never be publiqued, so he needs to say that those segments are "northafrican" or whatever he says. As you can imagine there are tons of other scientific papers that says the contrary: zero genetic impact in Spain.

And isolating just an area of Europe and ignoring at the same time the rest of Europe for "Uralid", "West Asian", "Red Sea", "NorthEast African", that ALL Europeans get, it shows lack of universality in your conclussions. To get a fair conclussion about populations you have to use the same criteria for every population. If a study is focused only in Iberia, taking just this study to show your conclussions is extremely retarded, because if the same criteria was taken for France they will also find "northafrican" or "subsaharan".

Again:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Can you explain the Northafrican and subsaharan in most European countries? And this is an example of hundred of thousands of real autosomal DNA samples without pursuing a conclussion, and they show subsaharan and northafrican. It is not like when someone writes a scientific paper from just a peninsula and ignore the rest of the countries.

[Gota_type_]

Tienes tu k15 a mano? Por curiosidad.

A ver si lo busco mañana y lo pongo. Lo debo tener por ahí en algún disco duro.

[Leto]

I am glad that you are happy. Some have pictured you right now:
https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/resources/images/3029295.jpg





When did I insulted you, retard? I chose russians as I could have chose Lithuanians, it is an example that suits the same argument.

Wog means a non-white in any case, so it is the same to use it to portrait amerindians from Mexico or chink russians.

Putin looks asian in most pictures, denying it shows how retarded you are.

6% East Eurasian. LOL. Most people from Spain get 0% northafrican. I am 100% Western European. So, for me you are a wog, despite looking, as you say, "very European", as Putin I imagine.
I don't look like him, I look passable even in Central Europe.
I've never attacked Spaniards or Italians, actually. In fact I've defended the Meds many times in other places when ignorant people called them non-white. Who cares about Caucasoid? Are you going to say Armenians and Assyrians are whiter than Finns for example just because they lack any East Asian or Sub-Saharan?

[Leto]

No, I'm 7-8% African my Mother is 12% and my Father is 2-3%

Someone in your family has Red Sea markers 2-3% I forget exactly but your Russian and you have it too diluted alot cause your a Mongolian
Red Sea isn't Sub-Saharan and who cares about such a minor score? I've seen Scandinavians with 2% Red Sea.
You are a troll and I'll try my best to have you banned.

[Jana]

..

I post scientific paper, you post amateur gedmatch data. Get out of here troll. Iberians do have north African admixture, except Basques. Other Europeans don't apart from some Med islanders. Live with it.

[Leto]

What means very European?
It means what it means - European.

[Cumansky]

You can't ban a Freemason, just wait for my next thread


3,2,1...

[Rocinante]

A ver si lo busco mañana y lo pongo. Lo debo tener por ahí en algún disco duro.

Vale vale, siempre se lo pido a los españoles que se que lo tienen para comparar y tal. Te lo agradecería.

[Gota_type_]

Lithuanians are almost entirely devoid of any east eurasian autosomal admixture. Along with Latvians, they have highest amount of native European mesolithic ancestry. Another fail.

Look at Lithuania:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-N.gif

You are wellcome.

[Gota_type_]

I don't look like him, I look passable even in Central Europe.
I've never attacked Spaniards or Italians, actually. In fact I've defended the Meds many times in other places when ignorant people called them non-white. Who cares about Caucasoid? Are you going to say Armenians and Assyrians are whiter than Finns for example just because they lack any East Asian or Sub-Saharan?


You have attacked me.

[Jana]

Look at Lithuania:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-N.gif

You are wellcome.

Try better next time.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/81/09/ae810906a5e455b7a6d9a9488be13b95.gif

[Rocinante]

I post scientific paper, you post amateur gedmatch data. Get out of here troll. Iberians do have north African admixture, except Basques. Other Europeans don't apart from some Med islanders. Live with it.

Yes, they do have "north african" ancestry from the ibero-marussians, not from islamic rule, like many people think, that makes it ancient common ancestry. That's what he is saying, or that's what i think.

[Gaska]

Can you post your Eurogenes K15 or K13? Also post Gedrosia K3, that's the calculator that inflates the most SSA and East_Eurasian. Let's see how much you will score.

Do you want to see mine?

[Jana]

Yes, they do have "north african" ancestry from the ibero-marussians, not from islamic rule, like many people think, that makes it ancient common ancestry. That's what he is saying, or that's what i think.

Why is it relevant from who it is? Never understood that part. And I don't get the fuss about minor North African admixture, either. Iberians have more northern European admixture than average Italians and Greeks.

[Gota_type_]

I post scientific paper, you post amateur gedmatch data. Get out of here troll. Iberians do have north African admixture, except Basques. Other Europeans don't apart from some Med islanders. Live with it.

There are hundreds of scientific papers that says that Iberia has zero northafrica and you have just chosen 1 in which they took 1400 iberians (probably the darkest possible types or mixed with gypsies) to portrait your agenda.

At the same time there are hundreds of scientific papers that confirm the Asian admixture in many Eastern and Baltic Europeans yet you don´t like to show them (probably in zero threads you have supported this idea).

And finally I have shown you the AVERAGES of real DATA (with hundred of thousands examples) yet you don´t believe because you need that a retard writes a 3 pages long "scientific" paper with 1.400 persons.


Again, why the Danish score 0.20% NorthEast African and 0.07% Subsaharan? Take a look at the rest of Europe, it is the same. Does it means that the Danish were ruled by the africans in the past, or it just mean common ancient admixture as with the example of Spain with the % of northafrican?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Try to get a brain, and stop pushing your agenda, you slav.

[Leto]

Look at Lithuania:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-N.gif

You are wellcome.
She is correct, Lithuanians are 1-2% East Eurasian at most but they have a huge amount of Euro HG blood.

[Adamastor]

Try better next time.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/81/09/ae810906a5e455b7a6d9a9488be13b95.gif

And why the fuck East Eurasian admixture in North Europeans is always used by Spaniards to avoid discussing their real North African admixture?

Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
Distance: 1.2980% / 0.01297956
Aggregated
41.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
26.8 DEU_MA_ACD
14.0 Moroccan_North
12.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
5.2 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
0.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Target: Spanish_Extremadura
Distance: 1.0861% / 0.01086072
Aggregated
34.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
32.0 DEU_MA_ACD
10.8 Moroccan_North
9.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
8.2 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
4.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 0.9243% / 0.00924275
Aggregated
37.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
35.4 DEU_MA_ACD
10.8 Moroccan_North
7.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
7.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
1.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Target: Spanish_Asturias
Distance: 2.3181% / 0.02318115
Aggregated
54.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
25.2 DEU_MA_ACD
10.2 Moroccan_North
10.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Compare with Basques:

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 1.9205% / 0.01920518
Aggregated
70.0 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
21.8 DEU_MA_ACD
8.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
0.2 Moroccan_North

Basques basically have 0% North African admixture, while other Spaniards can reach impressive numbers.

[Jana]

There are hundreds of scientific papers that says that Iberia has zero northafrica and you have just chosen 1 in which they took 1400 iberians (probably the darkest possible types or mixed with gypsies) to portrait your agenda.

At the same time there are hundreds of scientific papers that confirm the Asian admixture in many Eastern and Baltic Europeans yet you don´t like to show them (probably in zero threads you have supported this idea).

And finally I have shown you the AVERAGES of real DATA (with hundred of thousands examples) yet you don´t believe because you need that a retard writes a 3 pages long "scientific" paper with 1.400 persons.


Again, why the Danish score 0.20% NorthEast African and 0.07% Subsaharan? Take a look at the rest of Europe, it is the same. Does it means that the Danish were ruled by the africans in the past, or it just mean common ancient admixture as with the example of Spain with the % of northafrican?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Try to get a brain, and stop pushing your agenda, you slav.

Yes, show us scientific papers who claim Iberia is 0% North African, we want to see them. How is east eurasian influence in parts of eastern Europe connected to this thread? You seem incredibly insecure. And I have no agenda. You do.

[Adamastor]

Do you want to see mine?

No, you're a Basque. So you have 0% North African admixture.

[mitalit]

I post scientific paper, you post amateur gedmatch data. Get out of here troll. Iberians do have north African admixture, except Basques. Other Europeans don't apart from some Med islanders. Live with it. no... just some iberians

[Samnium]

Why is it relevant from who it is? Never understood that part. And I don't get the fuss about minor North African admixture, either. Iberians have more northern European admixture than average Italians and Greeks.

Average Greek or Italian doesn't make any sense though, think that Greek cluster extend from heavily Slavic admixed Greek Macedonians to Cypriots Greeks, and in Italy from Aosta to Sicily and people that can cluster like Cypriots actually or Sephardim.



6% East Eurasian. LOL. Most people from Spain get 0% northafrican. I am 100% Western European. So, for me you are a wog, despite looking, as you say, "very European", as Putin I imagine.

Ah, and by the way I've seen Leto pictures, he looks 100% European, nothing "Uralic", "East Asian" or "Mongoloid" in his look.

[Leto]

You have attacked me.
You attacked my people for no reason using Putin, lol. I'm against Putin actually but that doesn't mean he is genetically Mongolian or anything. Again, 20% East Asian is better than 10% Moor in my opinion because the former at least create sophisticated cultures.

[Jana]

And why the fuck East Eurasian admixture in North Europeans is always used by Spaniards to avoid discussing their real North African admixture?

I wonder about that too. Strange. My father for example, is around 2% mongoloid, and I find it cool. :)



Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
Distance: 1.2980% / 0.01297956
Aggregated
41.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
26.8 DEU_MA_ACD
14.0 Moroccan_North
12.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
5.2 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
0.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Target: Spanish_Extremadura
Distance: 1.0861% / 0.01086072
Aggregated
34.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
32.0 DEU_MA_ACD
10.8 Moroccan_North
9.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
8.2 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
4.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 0.9243% / 0.00924275
Aggregated
37.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
35.4 DEU_MA_ACD
10.8 Moroccan_North
7.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
7.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
1.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Target: Spanish_Asturias
Distance: 2.3181% / 0.02318115
Aggregated
54.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
25.2 DEU_MA_ACD
10.2 Moroccan_North
10.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Compare with Basques:

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 1.9205% / 0.01920518
Aggregated
70.0 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
21.8 DEU_MA_ACD
8.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
0.2 Moroccan_North

Basques basically have 0% North African admixture, while other Spaniards can reach impressive numbers.

:thumb001:

[Rocinante]

Do you want to see mine?

I do my friend, but for different reasons than the others.

[Gota_type_]

Try better next time.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/81/09/ae810906a5e455b7a6d9a9488be13b95.gif

Even taking your map (there are many other maps that show uralid admixture, but I don´t care) you can see that there are like 20 European countries with ASIAN (a different race) admixture or ancient ancestry....yet you focus in the % of Spain northafrica (100% caucasoid because northafricans are part caucasoid). As you can imagine we Europeans are caucasoids. Plus the % of northafrica in Spain is the same "race" of people. Yet, you "forget" to consider the high % and the 20 European countries with ASIAN ancestry, which it is a complete different race. Why this? In fact, if you are slavic you have more ASIAN blood than we Spaniards have northafrican caucasoid (by the way, I get 0.00000% northafrican and I am a blond-blue eyed quite nordic Spaniard). So, are you a mestiza? Are you like Jennifer Lopez, a caucasoid-asian mixture?? Are you happy when you are in China?? Tell us about your asian customs. Do you like insects?

[Jana]

no... just some iberians

Sicilians, Maltese, Cretans and some others do score some north African as far as I know.

[mitalit]

Can you post your Eurogenes K15 or K13? Also post Gedrosia K3, that's the calculator that inflates the most SSA and East_Eurasian. Let's see how much you will score.

K15
Population
North_Sea 24.96 Pct
Atlantic 29.26 Pct
Baltic 7.76 Pct
Eastern_Euro 1.43 Pct
West_Med 16.68 Pct
West_Asian 3.48 Pct
East_Med 11.31 Pct
Red_Sea 1.76 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.35 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.55 Pct
Northeast_African 1.18 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.29 Pct
K13
Population
North_Atlantic 40.79 Pct
Baltic 12.54 Pct
West_Med 23.00 Pct
West_Asian 4.94 Pct
East_Med 12.74 Pct
Red_Sea 2.11 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.87 Pct
Northeast_African 1.37 Pct
Sub-Saharan -
K3
Population
E_Eurasian 3.25 Pct
SSA 3.75 Pct
W_Eurasian 93.00 Pct

[Leto]

And why the fuck East Eurasian admixture in North Europeans is always used by Spaniards to avoid discussing their real North African admixture?

They and Italians and maybe Greeks always do that. I have nothing against those countries, great places actually but that's what they do. "B-b-but Pootin looks part Asian or that Finnish race driver has chinky Asians". So what? They still have a lot more European HG whether you like it or not.

[Gota_type_]

You attacked my people for no reason using Putin, lol. I'm against Putin actually but that doesn't mean he is genetically Mongolian or anything. Again, 20% East Asian is better than 10% Moor in my opinion because the former at least create sophisticated cultures.

Attacked "your people" because I said that Putin looks a mixed asian-white type?? LOL. Don´t you have eyes in your head? Anyone can see that he has asian admixture. Showing what everybody can see (except you) is attacking? LOL.

How can you even deny it?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Vladimir_Putin_2019-04-12.jpg/440px-Vladimir_Putin_2019-04-12.jpg

https://www.dw.com/es/putin-llama-a-rusia-unida-a-renovarse-tras-rev%C3%A9s-electoral/a-51382453#

https://www.telesurtv.net/__export/1581417737404/sites/telesur/img/2020/02/11/rusia_enmiendas01.jpg_1718483347.jpg

His face is alien in Western Europe.

[Jana]

Average Greek or Italian doesn't make any sense though, think that Greek cluster extend from heavily Slavic admixed Greek Macedonians to Cypriots Greeks, and in Italy from Aosta to Sicily and people that can cluster like Cypriots actually or Sephardim.

True. By average I mean central Italians like Tuscans or Greeks like Peloponese, in between most northern and most southern shifted Italian/Greek clusters.

[mitalit]

Attacked "your people" because I said that Putin looks a mixed asian-white type?? LOL. Don´t you have eyes in your head? Anyone can see that he has asian admixture. Showing what everybody can see (except you) is attacking? LOL.

How can you even deny it?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Vladimir_Putin_2019-04-12.jpg/440px-Vladimir_Putin_2019-04-12.jpg

https://www.dw.com/es/putin-llama-a-rusia-unida-a-renovarse-tras-rev%C3%A9s-electoral/a-51382453#

https://www.telesurtv.net/__export/1581417737404/sites/telesur/img/2020/02/11/rusia_enmiendas01.jpg_1718483347.jpg

His face is alien in Western Europe.

totally

[Adamastor]

K15
Population
North_Sea 24.96 Pct
Atlantic 29.26 Pct
Baltic 7.76 Pct
Eastern_Euro 1.43 Pct
West_Med 16.68 Pct
West_Asian 3.48 Pct
East_Med 11.31 Pct
Red_Sea 1.76 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.35 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.55 Pct
Northeast_African 1.18 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.29 Pct
K13
Population
North_Atlantic 40.79 Pct
Baltic 12.54 Pct
West_Med 23.00 Pct
West_Asian 4.94 Pct
East_Med 12.74 Pct
Red_Sea 2.11 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.87 Pct
Northeast_African 1.37 Pct
Sub-Saharan -
K3
Population
E_Eurasian 3.25 Pct
SSA 3.75 Pct
W_Eurasian 93.00 Pct

You are ~5% North African.

[Samnium]

True. By average I mean central Italians like Tuscans or Greeks like Peloponese, in between most northern and most southern shifted Italian/Greek clusters.

Tuscans generally have more Steppe than Iberians but less WHG and minor East Med, so if you count "Northern Ancestry" as Steppe they have "more".

And Peloponese would be far from being the midpoint, I would say more Thessaly definitely.

[Jana]

Even taking your map (there are many other maps that show uralid admixture, but I don´t care) you can see that there are like 20 European countries with ASIAN (a different race) admixture or ancient ancestry....yet you focus in the % of Spain northafrica (100% caucasoid because northafricans are part caucasoid). As you can imagine we Europeans are caucasoids. Plus the % of northafrica in Spain is the same "race" of people. Yet, you "forget" to consider the high % and the 20 European countries with ASIAN ancestry, which it is a complete different race. Why this? In fact, if you are slavic you have more ASIAN blood than we Spaniards have northafrican caucasoid (by the way, I get 0.00000% northafrican and I am a blond-blue eyed quite nordic Spaniard). So, are you a mestiza? Are you like Jennifer Lopez, a caucasoid-asian mixture?? Are you happy when you are in China?? Tell us about your asian customs. Do you like insects?

Maybe you didn't notice thread is about North African, not mongoloid admixture? You seem very strange, to put it mildly. :o
And photo in my avatar is me.

Post your gedmatch results, please.

[Jana]

Tuscans generally have more Steppe than Iberians but less WHG and minor East Med, so if you count "Northern Ancestry" as Steppe they have "more".

And Peloponese would be far from being the midpoint, I would say more Thessaly definitely.

Are you sure about Tuscans being more northern than Iberians? I doubt it.
I think Peloponese are good mid point between islanders like Cretans and people like Macedonian Greeks. Epirus is too similar to Albania, thus on the northern end of Greek cline.

[mitalit]

You are ~5% North African.

Why? I have a g25 to if you know a good calculator to see if i am a 5% north african. I am just like a 0,8% from west asia because i have a great grandfather from south italy

[Leto]

Attacked "your people" because I said that Putin looks a mixed asian-white type?? LOL. Don´t you have eyes in your head? Anyone can see that he has asian admixture. Showing what everybody can see (except you) is attacking? LOL.

How can you even deny it?


His face is alien in Western Europe.
He looked less so when he was younger. Yes, some of us look a bit Asian, so what? Look at the fucking map, Russia is a transcontinental country.
So what if he is alien to Western Europe? Western Europe isn't the only place in Europe. I can find Spaniards who would be mistaken for Caucasians in Russia.

[mitalit]

You are ~5% North African.

Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 2.5374% / 0.02537406
66.6 SouthwestEuropean
24.0 NorthwestEuropean
8.2 SoutheastEuropean
0.8 EastAsianHan
0.4 NortheastAsian


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri_N33K3FXc

[Gaska]

I do my friend, but for different reasons than the others.

Ja JA Ja-Solamente se lo enseño a mis amigos-

[Gota_type_]

And why the fuck East Eurasian admixture in North Europeans is always used by Spaniards to avoid discussing their real North African admixture?

Target: Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
Distance: 1.2980% / 0.01297956
Aggregated
41.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
26.8 DEU_MA_ACD
14.0 Moroccan_North
12.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
5.2 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
0.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Target: Spanish_Extremadura
Distance: 1.0861% / 0.01086072
Aggregated
34.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
32.0 DEU_MA_ACD
10.8 Moroccan_North
9.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
8.2 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
4.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 0.9243% / 0.00924275
Aggregated
37.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
35.4 DEU_MA_ACD
10.8 Moroccan_North
7.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
7.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
1.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Target: Spanish_Asturias
Distance: 2.3181% / 0.02318115
Aggregated
54.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
25.2 DEU_MA_ACD
10.2 Moroccan_North
10.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o

Compare with Basques:

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 1.9205% / 0.01920518
Aggregated
70.0 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
21.8 DEU_MA_ACD
8.0 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
0.2 Moroccan_North

Basques basically have 0% North African admixture, while other Spaniards can reach impressive numbers.

Because seeing that 20 european countries get asian ancestry it is the same that when you like to put maps of northafrica in Spain. It means ZERO ADMIXTURE (or just in some very limited number), it means COMMON ANCESTRY. When did the asians were in all of Eastern Europe and the Baltics?? The huns left minimal impact in Europe, and they even went to Germany and close to France yet they don´t get any asian in the maps.

So, can you get the easy idea that the northafrican in Iberia is the same as the East Asian in Eastern Europe, a signification of COMMON ANCESTRY, and not really admixture?? Why do Mongolians get Finnish DNA?? Were the Finnish in Mongolia? No. It is just common ancestry. It is a matter of labels, nothing to do with admixture.

And we like to put in equal terms all foreign DNA blood (foreign to Europe). If you take the "northafrican", why do you feel molest because we show the asian? Even considering the Asian is a different race, and the northafrican is pure caucasoid?

These are the northafricans that invaded Spain:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Cantigas_battle.jpg/400px-Cantigas_battle.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f3cPpS11M28/WRmPCxEp2XI/AAAAAAAAWPA/UDRgaLDCZNsB3lkzMT23umaL1kVkTc_pACEw/s1600/20170515_131856.jpg

That is our supossed northafrican DNA. Pure white. Northafricans are mulattos now after centuries of islam enslaving blacks. But 1200 years ago, they were pure bereberes, 100% caucasoid types. We can´t say the same about your asian "ancestors".

[Voskos]

And why the fuck East Eurasian admixture in North Europeans is always used by Spaniards to avoid discussing their real North African admixture?

Because Mongoloid admixture is non caucasoid, from an anthropological point of view. You basically have 1%-10% Siberian admixed people trolling Spaniards for having mixed with berbers, an ethnic group that scores at least 75% west eurasian admixture.

[Samnium]

Are you sure about Tuscans being more northern than Iberians? I doubt it.
I think Peloponese are good mid point between islanders like Cretans and people like Macedonian Greeks. Epirus is too similar to Albania, thus on the northern end of Greek cline.

Plotting is a back and forth "movement", they plot a bit south of Iberians because of East Med ancestry that's more elevated, but otherwise yes they have more "Steppe" actually and it's confirmed also in other studies that they have even more Steppe than Bergamo people for instance.

I'm not talking about Eurogenes results but about professionnal modeling and also G25 models that you can make.

Why Iberians don't plot more "Northern" despite having like around 50% Dutch-Bell Beaker ancestry ? Well Roman influence and Iberomaurusian.

[Leto]

The thing is that Putin does not represent the average Northern European look. In fact he is not even a very typical Slav.
This Russian actor would be more (stereo)typically Slavic
https://img.7ya.ru/pub/img/17254/1.jpg

[Jana]

Plotting is a back and forth "movement", they plot a bit south of Iberians because of East Med ancestry that's more elevated, but otherwise yes they have more "Steppe" actually and it's confirmed also in other studies that they have even more Steppe than Bergamo people for instance.

I'm not talking about Eurogenes results but about professionnal modeling and also G25 models that you can med.

I see, thanks for info. :)

[Jana]

Because Mongoloid admixture is non caucasoid, from an anthropological point of view. You basically have 1%-10% Siberian admixed people trolling Spaniards for having mixed with berbers, an ethnic group that scores at least 75% west eurasian admixture.

Why is it trolling to note the fact Iberians have NA admixture? Are north Africans subhumans? And Caucasoid is obsolete term. Genetically speaking there is no Caucasian race.

[Cumansky]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315377-Classify-18th-Century-Russian-Nobleman&p=6503345#post6503345

[Gota_type_]

Maybe you didn't notice thread is about North African, not mongoloid admixture? You seem very strange, to put it mildly. :o
And photo in my avatar is me.

Post your gedmatch results, please.

I am sure you have not commented in any thread that had to do with asian admixture in Eastern Europe or Scandinavia.



He looked less so when he was younger. Yes, some of us look a bit Asian, so what? Look at the fucking map, Russia is a transcontinental country.
So what if he is alien to Western Europe? Western Europe isn't the only place in Europe. I can find Spaniards who would be mistaken for Caucasians in Russia.

There is nothing good or bad with having asian blood. Why does it molest you? Stating facts for everyone, not just to 1-2 countries. Ask any other western Euro and ask them if they think that Putin has an asian vibe and if his looks are alien to western Europe. 99% would say yes.

Yes, I know that there are some rare Spaniards. And caucasians are the ancestors of all Europeans in their routine to Europe from the Middle East.

[Adamastor]

Why? I have a g25 to if you know a good calculator to see if i am a 5% north african. I am just like a 0,8% from west asia because i have a great grandfather from south italy

You score minor Northeast African and most Basques score 0%.

The higher the Northeast African and SSA in an Iberian, the higher the North African admixture. North Africans have 20% of both combined in K13 and K15, so it's easy to calculate the North African in Iberians based on these components.

[Voskos]

Why is it trolling to note the fact Iberians have NA admixture? Are north Africans subhumans?

Never said that. But it's sort of politicized to insist on it in order to present iberians as non european or bastards.

[Adamastor]

Because Mongoloid admixture is non caucasoid, from an anthropological point of view. You basically have 1%-10% Siberian admixed people trolling Spaniards for having mixed with berbers, an ethnic group that scores at least 75% west eurasian admixture.

I don't see anyone trolling here, it was just a civilized discussion. These Spaniards are the ones who chimped out after facing truth.

[mitalit]

You score minor Northeast African and most Basques score 0%.

The higher the Northeast African and SSA in an Iberian, the higher the North African admixture. North Africans have 20% of both combined in K13 and K15, so it's easy to calculate the North African in Iberians based on these components.

I m not basque

[Jana]

I am sure you have not commented in any thread that had to do with asian admixture in Eastern Europe or Scandinavia.

Ofcourse I have, why wouldn't I? You seem like some kind of purity freak. Facts are facts.

[Cumansky]

Ofcourse I have, why wouldn't I? You seem like some kind of purity freak. Facts are facts.

Feiichy calling someone purity freak haha good one

[Jana]

Never said that. But it's sort of politicized to insist on it in order to present iberians as non european or bastards.

Don't see anyone mentioned that in here. I only saw false claims that completely overrated NA input in Sicilians.

[Voskos]

I don't see anyone trolling here, it was just a civilized discussion. These Spaniards are the ones who chimped out after facing truth.

even these shitty gedmatches are unreliable. I've seen a full swede score as much northeast african as me(possibly higher than me by 0.1 but i dont really remember tbh) and I'm island greek myself.

[Leto]

Why is it trolling to note the fact Iberians have NA admixture? Are north Africans subhumans? And Caucasoid is obsolete term. Genetically speaking there is no Caucasian race.
Caucasoid does exist as an anthropological category but socially speaking it's not exactly a "race". I mean Arabs aren't seen as the same race as Germans.

[Rocinante]

Ja JA Ja-Solamente se lo enseño a mis amigos-

Jajajaja, vale, no problem

[Jana]

Caucasoid does exist as an anthropological category but socially speaking it's not exactly a "race". I mean Arabs aren't seen as the same race as Germans.

Genetically it doesn't however. ENF, WHG and steppe are worlds apart genetically. Like 3 different races. Steppe being mix itself.

[Gota_type_]

Ofcourse I have, why wouldn't I? You seem like some kind of purity freak. Facts are facts.

When you used just 1 scientific paper that showed supossed northafrican admixture in Spain, and denying at the same time hundreds of other studies that say that the admixture was zero because all muslims were removed from Spain, even moriscos in 1609, is because you wanted to focus in how we had northafrican.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/06/04/ciencia/1559654994_049558.html

That is a newspaper article based in a scientific paper, and it says that the admixture is zero and the only probably cause of the "northafrican" is neolithic.

[Voskos]

Caucasoid does exist as an anthropological category but socially speaking it's not exactly a "race". I mean Arabs aren't seen as the same race as Germans.

agree. caucasoid might not be a race but i guess any person understands that a western european is culturally/anthropoligically closer to an arab than to a Japanese.

[Leto]

Never said that. But it's sort of politicized to insist on it in order to present iberians as non european or bastards.
You Southerners do that as well. "Illiterate cavemen, we were building temples when you lived on the trees", bla bla bla. Actually on this forum specifically Greeks are disappointingly Russophobic in my opinion. Looks like you guys have largely fallen away from the Orthodox faith.

[Leto]

Genetically it doesn't however. ENF, WHG and steppe are worlds apart genetically. Like 3 different races. Steppe being mix itself.
All of them are considered West Eurasian.

[Jana]

When you used just 1 scientific paper that showed supossed northafrican admixture in Spain, and denying at the same time hundreds of other studies that say that the admixture was zero because all muslims were removed from Spain, even moriscos in 1609, is because you wanted to focus in how we had northafrican.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/06/04/ciencia/1559654994_049558.html

That is a newspaper article based in a scientific paper, and it says that the admixture is zero and the only probably cause of the "northafrican" is neolithic.

Post the paper article is based on please, and why aren't your posting your gedmatch?

[Samnium]

Genetically it doesn't however. ENF, WHG and steppe are worlds apart genetically. Like 3 different races. Steppe being mix itself.

Only on an european scale which is very tiny. See just gedmatch of Asians or Africans... You would see distances over 40.00 in the top 20 populations, something that you don't see in Middle-East or in Europe.

Definitely not three different races.

[Leto]

agree. caucasoid might not be a race but i guess any person understands that a western european is culturally/anthropoligically closer to an arab than to a Japanese.
Culturally? Not sure. On the right for instance the Japanese have a far more favorable reputation than the Eyrabs. Japan is a Western style democracy with safe and prosperous cities, not a barabric war-torn and low IQ hellhole.

[Voskos]

You Southerners do that as well. "Illiterate cavemen, we were building temples when you lived on the trees", bla bla bla. Actually on this forum specifically Greeks are disappointingly Russophobic in my opinion. Looks like you guys have largely fallen away from the Orthodox faith.

but when greeks do it they don't base it on genetic arguments.also, everyone has fallen away from the orthodox faith, not just the greeks.

[Gaska]

Jajajaja, vale, no problem

Aunque podía mandar también el de mi padre. La verdad estos tipos son unos pesados, supongo que llevarán años dando la barrila con el tema-

[Jana]

All of them are considered West Eurasian.

Which doesn't mean much. Both australoid and mongoloid are considered east Eurasian admixture for example.

[Jana]

Only on an european scale which is very tiny. See just gedmatch of Asians or Africans... You would see distances over 40.00 in the top 20 populations, something that you don't see in Middle-East or in Europe.

Definitely not three different races.

In my view Europeans are products of ancient race mix. Which doesn't mean I support additional mass race mixing because of that. Ofcourse not.

[Voskos]

Culturally? Not sure. On the right for instance the Japanese have a far more favorable reputation than the Eyrabs. Japan is a Western style democracy with safe and prosperous cities, not a barabric war-torn and low IQ hellhole.

forget about arabs. are you culturally closer to a jew or an ethnic Mongolian?

[Adamastor]

even these shitty gedmatches are unreliable. I've seen a full swede score as much northeast african as me(possibly higher than me by 0.1 but i dont really remember tbh) and I'm island greek myself.

GEDmatch do open too much room for high noise, but at the same time some things are consistent. Most Basques don't score any Northeast African and neither Sub-Saharan. At the same time most West Iberians do, there's a pattern here. Since the latter region is the most North African admixed it makes complete sense.

Find me just one Swede scoring 2.78% Northeast African and 2.30% Sub-Saharan (I can post Galicians, Portuguese and Asturians with these results). These levels are way above noise. Some atypical ones can score even more, someone posted an Asturian with 3.50 Northeast African some other day. It's not only GEDmatch noise.

[Leto]

forget about arabs. are you culturally closer to a jew or an ethnic Mongolian?
Obviously Mongolian! :icon_lol:
You first used Arabs and Japs, now you have changed the example... Makes no sense.

[Samnium]

In my view Europeans are products of ancient race mix. Which doesn't mean I support additional mass race mixing because of that. Ofcourse not.

Of course we are the product of "Ancient populations mixing" but what I wanted to say is that even if WHG, ENF and Yamnaya appear to be very far each other in reality they are very close in a world scale.

[Jana]

forget about arabs. are you culturally closer to a jew or an ethnic Mongolian?

How about being close to neither?

[Leto]

Anyway, if someone feels attacked by me, I apologize. I want to leave this discussion and don't want to post any more irrelevant off-topic things.

[Voskos]

Obviously Mongolian! :icon_lol:
You first used Arabs and Japs, now you have changed the example... Makes no sense.



If you feel closer to Mongolians than to Jews you're obviously a Mong worshipper. And probably a minority among west eurasians.

[Leto]

If you feel closer to Mongolians than to Jews you're obviously a Mong worshipper. And probably a minority among west eurasians.

How about being close to neither?
^
This.

[Leto]

In my view Europeans are products of ancient race mix. Which doesn't mean I support additional mass race mixing because of that. Ofcourse not.
Yep. At least this mix has proved to be successful. Not sure about other mixes.

[Samnium]

Yep. At least this mix has proved to be successful. Not sure about other mixes.

The mix Yamnaya + Iran + (direct) CHG + probably some Natufian was also successful in the Ancient Mesopotamia.

[Gaska]

Why is it trolling to note the fact Iberians have NA admixture? Are north Africans subhumans? And Caucasoid is obsolete term. Genetically speaking there is no Caucasian race.

You should understand that for us the Moors are like the devil. We were 600 years at war with them because they invaded our land, robbed, killed, sacked and destroyed many cities, churches etc. After harvesting the crops every year the Christians of the north went out to war with the Moors to defend our land and our religion.Then it is not so much a genetic issue as a political, social, economic and cultural issue. Now we have 1 million Moroccans living with us and everything has become much more complicated. Do you get it? That's why we don't like to be provoked especially for some Moorish trolls who claim Al Andalus and dream of returning to live in Spain

It seems that you are Croatian, I don't know if you were culturally affected by Turkish domination like other Balkan countries and I don't know if you have a good relationship with the Turks but I imagine that the Greeks will not have good memories of the Ottoman Empire. However, I suppose your Levantine blood will have something to do with the Turks- And regarding the Asian blood it is simply fun to see that many Europeans have such Asian components, for us they are as strange as the African or Levantine components.

The genetic issue is the least important because the Spaniards are phenotypically very different from the Moors. The Basques have no NA component and you could not distinguish a Basque from the rest of the Spaniards

[Nassbean]

I don't know what sources you use, but they are certainly wrong because those percentages are from a recent doctoral thesis with more than 10,000 samples throughout Spain so be careful what you say about their falsehood-I don´t clearley understimate nothing, next time try abstaining from saying such bullshit-

In addition, if you knew some genetics, you would understand that to find out when that percentage entered the Iberian Peninsula, you have to study all the ancient genomes available, and interestingly, that small African percentage that sometimes reaches 1% in the chalcolithic remains almost constant until the arrival of the Romans. Then it is clear that the Muslim invasion (711) left hardly a genetic trail in the north and east of the peninsula while in the west except in Extremadura it does not reach 5%. This is one of the most interesting genetic discussions in Spain because nobody can explain at the moment why Galicia has a 4.4% NA if the Moors were never there.

It seems very good to me that you show interest in the genetics of your neighbors, but do not lie about the percentages- Now the Spaniards are much more tolerant but you have to understand that we do not have much sympathy for the Moors-We don't have very good memories of our African neighbors, because we had to fight hundreds of years against them. In my village we still have the ruins of a convent burned by Almanzor, so it is normal for a Spaniard to get angry if you use false data about it.

lol show me these 10 000 samples and show me one portuguese member here with 5% NA or less good luck. Now some facts :


"Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA (Fig. 1C and fig. S3) and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans (8), can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans(15) and Early Neolithic Europeans (tables S9 and S10). His genome-wide ancestry and uniparental markers (tables S1 and S4) are unique among Copper Age Iberians, including individuals from sites with many analyzed individuals such as Sima del Ángel, and point to a North African origin. Our genetic evidence of sporadic contacts with North Africa during the Copper Age fits with the presence of African ivory at Iberian sites (16) and is further supported by a Bronze Age individual (I7162) from Loma del Puerco in southern Iberia who had 25% ancestry related to individuals like I4246 (Fig. 1D and table S16)."

some individuals clearly had more than 1% lol.


African contacts are older than previously thought: The study found, at sites in Madrid and Cádiz, a couple of individuals with African descent who lived in the Peninsula about 4,000 years ago. These are sporadic contacts, but show that there was an African presence long before the arrival of Muslims on the Peninsula in the 8th century. The scientists also detected a gene flow from North Africa to the Southeast of the Peninsula in Punic and Roman times. Romans, Greeks, Phoenicians, Visigoths and Muslims: Based on the analysis of 24 individuals from the Greek colony of Empúries, founded between the 600s and the late-Roman period in present-day Catalonia, scientists have concluded that at the beginning of The Middle Age of at least a quarter of Iberian ancestry had been replaced by new flows of population from the Eastern Mediterranean (Romans, Greeks and Phoenicians). The researchers also analyzed two individuals of Visigothic origin at a site in Girona and several of Muslim origin in Granada, Valencia, Castellón and Vinaròs. These ‘ancient Iberians’ showed a North African genetic component of almost 50%, while in the current population it is 5%. “This North African ancestry was almost completely eliminated during the Reconquista and the subsequent expulsion of the Moors”, says Carles Lalueza-Fox, one of the directors of the study at the IBE.

source : https://ellipse.prbb.org/reconstructing-the-genetic-map-of-the-last-8000-years-in-the-iberian-peninsula/

We keep finding north african individuals even before the roman era ...Let's wait for more samples.



we have shown that recent North African ancestry is highest in southwestern Europe and decreases in northern latitudes, with a sharp difference between the Iberian Peninsula and France, where Basques are less influenced by North Africa (as suggested in ref. 48). Our estimates of shared ancestry are much higher than previously reported (up to 20% of the European individuals’ genomes). This increase in inferred African ancestry in Europe is due to our inclusion of seven North African, rather than Sub-Saharan African populations.


Southwestern European populations average between 4% and 20% of their genomes assigned to a North African ancestral cluster (SI Appendix, Fig. S3), whereas this value does not exceed 2% in southeastern European populations.

between 4% and 20% ! not 4% and 20% but between 4% and 20% !


However, strong similarities in pottery production are also found between southern Iberia and Northwest Africa 7,500 ya. The existence of “maritime pioneers” in the Mediterranean Sea during this period has been hypothesized (21). As a consequence, some authors support the existence of Neolithic networks joining the European and African shores of the western Mediterranean Sea (22).

way before Rome...

source : https://www.pnas.org/content/110/29/11791#sec-9

Also yes the average for the whole country is 5% but that's because the basque region has none NA admixture but there is a lot of variations between regions : In the peninsula overall, admixture from an African-type parental population appears to be 10·6%, but this varies widely; there is none in the Basque zones, but 21·6% in Castile, i. e. twice as much as elsewhere.

https://i.imgur.com/ZaszKvk.jpg

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Iberian-North-African-and-Sephardic-Jewish-Admixture-Proportions-among-Iberian_fig4_23629037

the highest amount of NA is found in Iberia :

https://i.imgur.com/xgIPlHl.png

Also how do you explain that 42% of the paternal haplogroups of Pasiegos are from NA :

https://i.imgur.com/BTLMDBV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NpxREpG.jpg

Moreover I don't really care about your feelings and how spaniards perceive us most north africans don't really care about you but let's go back to my question galicia in average has 10% what about sicily ?

[Jana]

You should understand that for us the Moors are like the devil. We were 600 years at war with them because they invaded our land, robbed, killed, sacked and destroyed many cities, churches etc. After harvesting the crops every year the Christians of the north went out to war with the Moors to defend our land and our religion.Then it is not so much a genetic issue as a political, social, economic and cultural issue. Now we have 1 million Moroccans living with us and everything has become much more complicated. Do you get it? That's why we don't like to be provoked especially for some Moorish trolls who claim Al Andalus and dream of returning to live in Spain

It seems that you are Croatian, I don't know if you were culturally affected by Turkish domination like other Balkan countries and I don't know if you have a good relationship with the Turks but I imagine that the Greeks will not have good memories of the Ottoman Empire. However, I suppose your Levantine blood will have something to do with the Turks- And regarding the Asian blood it is simply fun to see that many Europeans have such Asian components, for us they are as strange as the African or Levantine components.

The genetic issue is the least important because the Spaniards are phenotypically very different from the Moors. The Basques have no NA component and you could not distinguish a Basque from the rest of the Spaniards

We didn't provoke Spaniards, you seem very childlish and insecure. And I don't have any recent Levantine blood.

[Leto]

The mix Yamnaya + Iran + (direct) CHG + probably some Natufian was also successful in the Ancient Mesopotamia.
Now they aren't so much, unfortunately. I'd rather live in 100% Mongoloid Seul than in Baghdad for example.

[Samnium]

lol show me these 10 000 samples and show me one portuguese member here with 5% NA or less good luck. Now some facts :



some individuals clearly had more than 1% lol.



source : https://ellipse.prbb.org/reconstructing-the-genetic-map-of-the-last-8000-years-in-the-iberian-peninsula/

We keep finding north african individuals even before the roman era ...Let's wait for more samples.






between 4% and 20% ! not 4% and 20% but between 4% and 20% !



way before Rome...

source : https://www.pnas.org/content/110/29/11791#sec-9

Also yes the average for the whole country is 5% but that's because the basque region has none NA admixture but there is a lot of variations between regions : In the peninsula overall, admixture from an African-type parental population appears to be 10·6%, but this varies widely; there is none in the Basque zones, but 21·6% in Castile, i. e. twice as much as elsewhere.

https://i.imgur.com/ZaszKvk.jpg

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Iberian-North-African-and-Sephardic-Jewish-Admixture-Proportions-among-Iberian_fig4_23629037

the highest amount of NA is found in Iberia :

https://i.imgur.com/xgIPlHl.png

Also how do you explain that 42% of the paternal haplogroups of Pasiegos are from NA :

https://i.imgur.com/BTLMDBV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NpxREpG.jpg

Moreover I don't really care about your feelings and how spaniards perceive us most north africans don't really care about you but let's go back to my question galicia in average has 10% what about sicily ?

No way Sicily is 10% North-African in average. As I've said the most "NA" admixed are usually from Trapany and Palermo, and they come rarely to 10% North-African. If anything Sicilians are an East Med population much more related to Levantines than to North-Africans EVEN if there are some sicilians that show Moroccan/Algerian in their top 20 populations (still at a high distance, like 25 which is quite huge).

[Jana]

Don't believe in any kind of connection between genetics and success. It comes and goes and changes all the time.

[Leto]

It seems that you are Croatian, I don't know if you were culturally affected by Turkish domination like other Balkan countries and I don't know if you have a good relationship with the Turks but I imagine that the Greeks will not have good memories of the Ottoman Empire. However, I suppose your Levantine blood will have something to do with the Turks- And regarding the Asian blood it is simply fun to see that many Europeans have such Asian components, for us they are as strange as the African or Levantine components.

She has no Levantine blood, lol. Her results are all over the place.

[Nassbean]

You are wrong, you are using Iberomaurusian score in G25 samples to measure North African admxiture. But North Africans don't have only Iberomaurusian, they also score Sardinian and Levant-type of admixture. Actually they have more Sardinian than Iberomaurusian.

So the real North African admixture for someone scoring 5% Iberomaurusian considering that North Africans don't even have 40% of it is much higher. There is no way most Galicians, Extremadurans and Portuguese are only 5% North African. All peer-reviewed papers put them at 9-12%.


Answering the OP: Sicilian average is less North African than Iberia, but in Sicily you can find individuals with up to 20% North African admixture, in Iberia it's rare or even impossible, the most North African an Iberian can get is around 10-12% IMO.

interesting thanks what about this spaniard from la Huelva what do you think ? :

https://i.imgur.com/N9v6tn7.jpg

[Leto]

Don't believe in any kind of connection between genetics and success. It comes and goes and changes all the time.
Well, one needs to look up the list of the most prosperous and safest countries in the world to see there's not a lot of African or Middle Eastern ones among them (or rather that there are none).

[Jana]

Finns were same genetically 500 years ago and now for the most part, back than they were backwater and now they are one of most advanced countries on Earth. Assyrians didn't change much since golden days of Mesopotamia, and look at the region now. I think other factors matter more (favorable climate, trade connections etc)

[Jana]

Well, one needs to look up the list of the most prosperous and safest countries in the world to see there's not a lot of African or Middle Eastern ones among them (or rather that there are none).

True, but it was different 2000 years ago, for example. Egypt was once considered most prosperous Roman province. Yemen was called ''Arabia Felix'' by them. And look at it now.

[Gaska]

We didn't provoke Spaniards, you seem very childlish and insecure. And I don't have any recent Levantine blood.

Insecure? quite the opposite, we continue to defend our land. And if you are Croatian, surely you have Levantine blood, for us Basques, you are similar to the Arabs/Moors in that regard.

[Samnium]

Finns were same genetically 500 years ago and now for the most part, back than they were backwater and now they are one of most advanced countries on Earth. Assyrians didn't change much since golden days of Mesopotamia, and look at the region now. I think other factors matter more (favorable climate, trade connections etc)

Yes. I'm not a person that would explain all by genetics. It looks like Marx that wanted to explain all through the fight between the social classes, everything reduced to that.

[Nassbean]

Yes, they do have "north african" ancestry from the ibero-marussians, not from islamic rule, like many people think, that makes it ancient common ancestry. That's what he is saying, or that's what i think.

North africans are only 1/3 iberomaurusian the north african component is way more than just iberomaurusian so no all the studies show that iberians (except basques) have north african admixture that is both ancient and recent.

[Duffmannn]

Well, one needs to look up the list of the most prosperous and safest countries in the world to see there's not a lot of African or Middle Eastern ones among them (or rather that there are none).

The poorest countries in Europe, except Moldavia, are all muslim or have big muslim minorities: Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Bulgaria.

[Leto]

True, but it was different 2000 years ago, for example. Egypt was once considered most prosperous Roman province. Yemen was called ''Arabia Felix'' by them. And look at it now.
Yeah, they somehow stopped "progressing" or maybe even regressed a bit.

[Jana]

Insecure? quite the opposite, we continue to defend our land. And if you are Croatian, surely you have Levantine blood, for us Basques, you are similar to the Arabs/Moors in that regard.

Why would I have Levantine blood being Croatian? Please don't be ridiculous. xD

[Nassbean]

There are hundreds of scientific papers that says that Iberia has zero northafrica and you have just chosen 1 in which they took 1400 iberians (probably the darkest possible types or mixed with gypsies) to portrait your agenda.

At the same time there are hundreds of scientific papers that confirm the Asian admixture in many Eastern and Baltic Europeans yet you don´t like to show them (probably in zero threads you have supported this idea).

And finally I have shown you the AVERAGES of real DATA (with hundred of thousands examples) yet you don´t believe because you need that a retard writes a 3 pages long "scientific" paper with 1.400 persons.


Again, why the Danish score 0.20% NorthEast African and 0.07% Subsaharan? Take a look at the rest of Europe, it is the same. Does it means that the Danish were ruled by the africans in the past, or it just mean common ancient admixture as with the example of Spain with the % of northafrican?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19c_bZjUV_RouKyGyLHmMDw57WwAVabXFJOaso_gcuRE/htmlview?pli=1

Try to get a brain, and stop pushing your agenda, you slav.

Why are you so dishonest ? There are no studies who show that iberians have zero NA admixture :picard1: show us these studies ...

[Duffmannn]

Yeah, they somehow stopped "progressing" or maybe even regressed a bit.

I bet when more muslim a region in Russia is, poorer is.

And this could apply to the most mongoloid provinces.

Avoiding extreme distorting effects like an oil producting region (Dubai or Qatar style)

[Jana]

Yeah, they somehow stopped "progressing" or maybe even regressed a bit.

Islam played a part in my opinion.

[Gaska]

She has no Levantine blood, lol. Her results are all over the place.


I don't know if she particularly has Levantine blood, but I guess she wouldn't mind or does she think the Levantines are subhuman?

[Jana]

I don't know if she particularly has Levantine blood, but I guess she wouldn't mind or does she think the Levantines are subhuman?

I don't. My mother taught our maternal line was Jewish, however it isn't - it's German. I have my DNA results and I don't score any Levantine. Genetically I plot in southern part of Central Europe.

[Duffmannn]

I don't know if she particularly has Levantine blood, but I guess she wouldn't mind or does she think the Levantines are subhuman?

She´s a cynical and hypocrital on this thread, she has been writing here for years. And she´s trying to troll in a low-intensity.

Anyways, even the most dark, northafrican or wog regions of Spain like Canary Islands or so have been historical, economical or in any other aspect more important than "whiter" countries like Denmark or Croatia.

You should not take this so seriously. Just explain your points quietly, the reality won´t change in a discussion here.

[Nassbean]

Because seeing that 20 european countries get asian ancestry it is the same that when you like to put maps of northafrica in Spain. It means ZERO ADMIXTURE (or just in some very limited number), it means COMMON ANCESTRY. When did the asians were in all of Eastern Europe and the Baltics?? The huns left minimal impact in Europe, and they even went to Germany and close to France yet they don´t get any asian in the maps.

So, can you get the easy idea that the northafrican in Iberia is the same as the East Asian in Eastern Europe, a signification of COMMON ANCESTRY, and not really admixture?? Why do Mongolians get Finnish DNA?? Were the Finnish in Mongolia? No. It is just common ancestry. It is a matter of labels, nothing to do with admixture.

And we like to put in equal terms all foreign DNA blood (foreign to Europe). If you take the "northafrican", why do you feel molest because we show the asian? Even considering the Asian is a different race, and the northafrican is pure caucasoid?

These are the northafricans that invaded Spain:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Cantigas_battle.jpg/400px-Cantigas_battle.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f3cPpS11M28/WRmPCxEp2XI/AAAAAAAAWPA/UDRgaLDCZNsB3lkzMT23umaL1kVkTc_pACEw/s1600/20170515_131856.jpg

That is our supossed northafrican DNA. Pure white. Northafricans are mulattos now after centuries of islam enslaving blacks. But 1200 years ago, they were pure bereberes, 100% caucasoid types. We can´t say the same about your asian "ancestors".

Again why are you lying ? We have the autosomal results of guanches who were isolated from any arab invasions or slave trade and they are similar to modern north africans :

https://i.imgur.com/Kd8A6ks.png

so no we aren't mulattoes and we didn't change that much stop your propaganda you filthy racist.

[Leto]

I don't know if she particularly has Levantine blood, but I guess she wouldn't mind or does she think the Levantines are subhuman?
Well, I would mind personally but that doesn't mean they are "subhuman". As a Christian I refuse to consider any race as such for example.

[Jana]

She´s a cynical and hypocrital on this thread, she has been writing here for years. And she´s trying to troll in a low-intensity.

No, I never trolled Iberians. Please leave me alone. I realise how unpleasant many of you can be now when I returned, It's sad. Get some self-respect.

[Leto]

I bet when more muslim a region in Russia is, poorer is.

And this could apply to the most mongoloid provinces.

Avoiding extreme distorting effects like an oil producting region (Dubai or Qatar style)
Mongoloids have some of the highest IQ scores in the world. Chess and math are now dominated by the Chinese.

[Jana]

Mongoloids have some of the highest IQ scores in the world. Chess and math are now dominated by the Chinese.

IQ studies are given too much importance. Everybody has a gift for something. West Africans are talented for sports, East Asians are for science etc. I don't put much value to these things.

[Gaska]

North africans are only 1/3 iberomaurusian the north african component is way more than just iberomaurusian so no all the studies show that iberians (except basques) have north african admixture that is both ancient and recent.

You know what sporadic contacts mean right? - The truth is that the North African influence is Spain is ridiculous, however the European influence in North Africa is much greater, that is the real reason for the small percentage of autosomal DNA we share .

+ Ancient genomes from North Africa evidence prehistoric migrations to the Maghreb from both the Levant and Europe-The cultural and genetic similarities between Iberian and North African Neolithic traditions further reinforce the model of an Iberian migration into the Maghreb. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome haplogroups obtained for IAM (Moroccan Early Neolithic) and KEB (Moroccan Late Neolithic) suggest either a population replacement or an important genetic influx into Morocco between 5,000 and 3,000 BCE. IAM samples belong to the mtDNA haplogroups U6a and M1, both of which are associated with the back migration to Africa from Eurasia in Upper Paleolithic times and observed in Moroccan Later Stone Age individuals, whereas KEB samples belong to haplogroups K1, T2, and X2, which are prominently found in Anatolian and European Neolithic samples.

In the PCA, IAM samples are placed close to Mozabites (Berber group inhabiting the Mʾzab oases of southern Algeria), while Iberian Neolithic samples fall close to southern European populations. As suspected from the mtDNA and Y chromosome data, KEB samples do not cluster with IAM and are placed in an intermediate position between IAM and TOR. We further explored the genetic structure of these samples using the program ADMIXTURE. At K = 5, TOR is composed of the component associated with the European Early Neolithic and IAM is composed of the North African component observed in Mozabites. KEB is placed in an intermediate position, with ∼50% each of European Early Neolithic and North African ancestries. It is worth mentioning that, compared with current North African samples, IAM and KEB do not show any sub-Saharan African ancestry in the MEGA-HGDP ADMIXTURE analysis, suggesting that trans-Saharan migrations occurred after Neolithic times.

[Duffmannn]

Mongoloids have some of the highest IQ scores in the world. Chess and math are now dominated by the Chinese.

But the mongoloid is a very wide term, as caucasian one.

It´s not the same East Asians (Koreans, Japanese, Chinese) than Southeast Asians, Siberians or Central Asian (even amerindians could fit in the mongoloid category)

The reality is that Russia is a country of orthodox christianity majortiy, indo-european speaker that has ruled (and still does) in a colonial way caucasian and mongoloid peoples that have been aculturalised in the russian culture, religion and lenguage, through a process of war and miscegenation, and which its elites are 95% (probably reaching almost 100%, im not expert on this) of pure russian stock (or other indo-european ones as ukranian, belarusian...)

[Duffmannn]

IQ studies are given too much importance. Everybody has a gift for something. West Africans are talented for sports, East Asians are for science etc. I don't put much value to these things.

Of course, gypsies are known for their theaving abilities in Hungary. They just need other 500 years of cohabitation to get success, just another oportunity.

Who could care of living next to gypsies?

Would you do?

[Leto]

IQ studies are given too much importance. Everybody has a gift for something. West Africans are talented for sports, East Asians are for science etc. I don't put much value to these things.
Yeah but black Africans have yet to achieve anything noteworthy in terms of developement. I'll never believe human populations are simply interchangeable. If you import Somalis you'll get Somalia, as simple as that. People simply recreate the type of society they have left back home plus some differences here and there. See Russians in the Far East, Kazakhstan or German towns in Brazil or the Afrikaner society in South Africa.

[Jana]

Of course, gypsies are known for their theaving abilities in Hungary. They just need other 500 years of cohabitation to get success, just another oportunity.

Who could care of living next to gypsies?

Would you do?

Viktor Orban is part Gypsy, I bet you won't consider him stupid nor incapable.

[Leto]

...

[Jana]

Yeah but black Africans have yet to achieve anything noteworthy in terms of developement. I'll never believe human populations are simply interchangeable. If you import Somalis you'll get Somalia, as simple as that. People simply recreate the type of society they have left back home plus some differences here and there. See Russians in the Far East, Kazakhstan or German towns in Brazil or the Afrikaner society in South Africa.

I don't believe one society needs to compare to another. Japan is civilised and prosperous, yet they have highest amount of adult virgins and depressed loners in the world. People who don't leave their rooms for 10 years and play vieogames. West Africa is a mess of violence and diesease, but they have lot of sex, dance, sing and lot of offspring. Every society has bad and good sides.

I am against mass migration of any kind. But honestly I wouldn't want to live in Japan or Sweden. They don't seem happy people. Development isn't everything.

[Duffmannn]

Why are you even talking about us? Spaniards obsessing with Russia tonight? Yes, we are fucking Mongols, shut up, amigos.

You are very sensitive man.

Anyways, if you are interested to know this, the process of imperial expansion I commented before in Russia, also applies to Spain. But the expansion would be in America, and the equivalent to Moscovia would be Spain itself. Russia was more succesfull on this than Spain.

[Nassbean]

You should understand that for us the Moors are like the devil. We were 600 years at war with them because they invaded our land, robbed, killed, sacked and destroyed many cities, churches etc. After harvesting the crops every year the Christians of the north went out to war with the Moors to defend our land and our religion.Then it is not so much a genetic issue as a political, social, economic and cultural issue. Now we have 1 million Moroccans living with us and everything has become much more complicated. Do you get it? That's why we don't like to be provoked especially for some Moorish trolls who claim Al Andalus and dream of returning to live in Spain

It seems that you are Croatian, I don't know if you were culturally affected by Turkish domination like other Balkan countries and I don't know if you have a good relationship with the Turks but I imagine that the Greeks will not have good memories of the Ottoman Empire. However, I suppose your Levantine blood will have something to do with the Turks- And regarding the Asian blood it is simply fun to see that many Europeans have such Asian components, for us they are as strange as the African or Levantine components.

The genetic issue is the least important because the Spaniards are phenotypically very different from the Moors. The Basques have no NA component and you could not distinguish a Basque from the rest of the Spaniards

By reading this I clearly see how biased and complexed you're ...seriously it's really difficult to meet spaniards who are objective and who can put aside their stereotypes. Most portugueses I've met tend to be less ignorant and more respectful anyway what you're saying is completely false and we clearly see that you haven't read anything about Al andalus. There is no "we were at war with them" most moors during that time were local iberians who converted to Islam some of them were even slavs from central and east europe they were called "Saqaliba" so you were just fighting against your own people. Also you have no evidence that you descend from old christians you probably have plenty of morisco and marranes ancestors (not all of them were expulsed btw).

Moreover Visigoths and romans also invaded "your" land but we don't see you complaining about it ...Moors robbed and killed like most soldiers at that time you think christian soldiers were angels ? lol also this "reconquista" is an anachronism there were no such thing as a reconquest simply kingdoms expanding themselves and killing the muslims. Without the call of the Pope and the help of other european crusaders be sure that this "reconquest" would have failed.

Also I disagree spaniards in general aren't that different phenotypically from the moors especially the ones who come from the coastal areas (in my own family plenty of people can pass in iberia easily and some members here have seen my mother and they agreed) myself when I go there I'm always surprised by how some iberians would pass easily in north africa despite the big genetic distance. Btw my people have nothing to do with your people culturally and genetically and i'm not trying to associate my people with yours I just asked a simple question and of course y'all started to act hysterically.

Behave.

[Duffmannn]

Viktor Orban is part Gypsy, I bet you won't consider him stupid nor incapable.

-Where are you going?"
+I have apples"

[Jana]

I would much rather live in tri-racial, communist Cuba than in Japan :)

[Duffmannn]

I would much rather live in tri-racial, communist Cuba than in Japan :)

The cubans not.

[Jana]

The cubans not.

I met them. They wouldn't like Japan. Most Japanese are miserable people. Social pressure to preform in school and workplace is unimaginable for Europeans like me, not to mention for Latinos.

[Leto]

@Nassbean, I bet you live in a white country. Probably France, Belgium, maybe even Spain. That says a lot. Every single Muslim or "brown" supremacist on the internet lives in the West.

[Nassbean]

You know what sporadic contacts mean right? - The truth is that the North African influence is Spain is ridiculous, however the European influence in North Africa is much greater, that is the real reason for the small percentage of autosomal DNA we share .

+ Ancient genomes from North Africa evidence prehistoric migrations to the Maghreb from both the Levant and Europe-The cultural and genetic similarities between Iberian and North African Neolithic traditions further reinforce the model of an Iberian migration into the Maghreb. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome haplogroups obtained for IAM (Moroccan Early Neolithic) and KEB (Moroccan Late Neolithic) suggest either a population replacement or an important genetic influx into Morocco between 5,000 and 3,000 BCE. IAM samples belong to the mtDNA haplogroups U6a and M1, both of which are associated with the back migration to Africa from Eurasia in Upper Paleolithic times and observed in Moroccan Later Stone Age individuals, whereas KEB samples belong to haplogroups K1, T2, and X2, which are prominently found in Anatolian and European Neolithic samples.

In the PCA, IAM samples are placed close to Mozabites (Berber group inhabiting the Mʾzab oases of southern Algeria), while Iberian Neolithic samples fall close to southern European populations. As suspected from the mtDNA and Y chromosome data, KEB samples do not cluster with IAM and are placed in an intermediate position between IAM and TOR. We further explored the genetic structure of these samples using the program ADMIXTURE. At K = 5, TOR is composed of the component associated with the European Early Neolithic and IAM is composed of the North African component observed in Mozabites. KEB is placed in an intermediate position, with ∼50% each of European Early Neolithic and North African ancestries. It is worth mentioning that, compared with current North African samples, IAM and KEB do not show any sub-Saharan African ancestry in the MEGA-HGDP ADMIXTURE analysis, suggesting that trans-Saharan migrations occurred after Neolithic times.

And so what's your point ? Everyone here is aware of the european component found among north africans....meanwhile southern iberia was almost half north african :

https://i.imgur.com/vNlJvcL.jpg

Don't try to play this game with me.

[Gaska]

No, I never trolled Iberians. Please leave me alone. I realise how unpleasant many of you can be now when I returned, It's sad. Get some self-respect.

Yes you do, and you also do it without knowing what you are saying

Conclusion- By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that [I]at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves. Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today

[Nassbean]

@Nassbean, I bet you live in a white country. Probably France, Belgium, maybe even Spain. That says a lot. Every single Muslim or "brown" supremacist on the internet lives in the West.

and so ?

[Leto]

I met them. They wouldn't like Japan. Most Japanese are miserable people. Social pressure to preform in school and workplace is unimaginable for Europeans like me, not to mention for Latinos.
Latino countries are crime-ridden hell, especially Central America, Venezuela and parts of Brazil. You literally cannot leave your home or car and be safe. Who the fuck cares if they have "a lot of sex and can dance"? That's not a virtue at all.

[Nassbean]

Yes you do, and you also do it without knowing what you are saying

Conclusion- By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that [I]at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves. Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today

It doesn't change the fact that iberians have NA admixture.

[Leto]

and so ?
Well, that means you invaded a place where you refuse to assimilate and which you probably despise. I have nothing against you personally but if they don't want lots of Moros or mulattoes or whoever else it is their right.

[Ethel]

https://i.imgur.com/ki7O5BP.jpg

[Jana]

Latino countries are crime-ridden hell, especially Central America, Venezuela and parts of Brazil. You literally cannot leave your home or car and be safe. Who the fuck cares if they have "a lot of sex and can dance"? That's not a virtue at all.

Cuba isn't dangerous, it's just poor. In Latin America huge class differences are biggest issue (much larger than in Europe). No wonder communism became popular in parts of it.
For me, east-central Europe (V4) is by far the best place to be. :)

[Nassbean]

Well, that means you invaded a place where you refuse to assimilate and which you probably despise. I have nothing against you personally but if they don't want lots of Moros or mulattoes or whoever else it is their right.

Invaded ? I was born here and my grandparents came after belgium proposed them to work here ( they even paid their flight tickets lol) they just took the opportunity to have a better life. And what makes you think that I'm not integrated and that I despise the locals? And yes it's their right to depise and be against anyone they want.

[Jana]

-Where are you going?"
+I have apples"

Problem with Gypsies is their lifestyle, not their genetics.

[Duffmannn]

Problem with Gypsies is their lifestyle, not their genetics.

Both things are related.

[Leto]

Invaded ? I was born here and my grandparents came after belgium proposed them to work here ( they even paid their flight tickets lol) they just took the opportunity to have a better life. And what makes you think that I'm not integrated and that I despise the locals? And yes it's their right to depise and be against anyone they want.
Okay. I didn't know you were Belgian. I thought you were straight from Morocco.

[Gaska]

And so what's your point ? Everyone here is aware of the european component found among north africans....meanwhile southern iberia was almost half north african :

https://i.imgur.com/vNlJvcL.jpg

Don't try to play this game with me.

What game? You seem obsessed with Spain, these samples are useless because they have nothing to do with North Africa. Do not you realize that the first are Roman and Greek, the second Visigoths and the third Moors who were totally expelled from the Iberian Peninsula? You just try to confuse people with lies, you should be honest-
You remind me of Boabdil crying like a woman for not knowing how to defend Granada HA HA HA

[Jana]

Both things are related.

I doubt it. They are mix of European and South Asian for the most part, with some west Asian. And they preform much worse than pure South Asians (in south Asia Dravidian southern India is much more developed than Aryan north India)

[Jana]

Yes you do, and you also do it without knowing what you are saying

Conclusion- By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that [I]at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves. Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today

Post your gedmatch K13 please.

[Kamal900]

Again why are you lying ? We have the autosomal results of guanches who were isolated from any arab invasions or slave trade and they are similar to modern north africans :

https://i.imgur.com/Kd8A6ks.png

so no we aren't mulattoes and we didn't change that much stop your propaganda you filthy racist.

Indeed. Even Palestinian Muslims themselves get around 10% Guanche on average since we heavily mixed with both the Egyptians and the later Berber migrants to the Levant and so on. It's no biggie really since we don't have anything against Berbers like many Iberians today. Again, anyone with political biases is biased when it comes to these things, you know? We have their genetics of the ancient Berber Guanches who genetically cluster very closely with modern day Maghrebi people, and they were pretty isolated from the rest of humanity before the Spaniards came in and mixed and assimilated them.

[Leto]

I doubt it. They are mix of European and South Asian for the most part, with some west Asian. And they preform much worse than pure South Asians (in south Asia Dravidian southern India is much more developed than Aryan north India)
I preach Gypsy assimilation but Serbs usually disagree with me. I say - eliminate them through miscegenation, that's the only legal and peaceful way to solve the problem.

[Nassbean]

What game? You seem obsessed with Spain, these samples are useless because they have nothing to do with North Africa. Do not you realize that the first are Roman and Greek, the second Visigoths and the third Moors who were totally expelled from the Iberian Peninsula? You just try to confuse people with lies, you should be honest-
You remind me of Boabdil crying like a woman for not knowing how to defend Granada HA HA HA

Sure they have nothing to do with north africa but they were half north african :picard1: Before romans and greek you forget the punics :thumb001: Again the moors for the most part were iberian not north african so you expulsed mainly your own people and not all of them were expulsed some went to Portugal or northern regions like Galicia.

I'm at Home in south spain HA HA HA

[Jana]

I preach Gypsy assimilation but Serbs usually disagree with me. I say - eliminate them through miscegenation, that's the only legal and peaceful way to solve the problem.

I agree.

[Nassbean]

Indeed. Even Palestinian Muslims themselves get around 10% Guanche on average since we heavily mixed with both the Egyptians and the later Berber migrants to the Levant and so on. It's no biggie really since we don't have anything against Berbers like many Iberians today. Again, anyone with political biases is biased when it comes to these things, you know? We have their genetics of the ancient Berber Guanches who genetically cluster very closely with modern day Maghrebi people, and they were pretty isolated from the rest of humanity before the Spaniards came in and mixed and assimilated them.

exactly bro you see I just asked a simple question because I was confused by some results and look at their reactions and they dare to say it's me who have a problem smh It seems we're restricted to ask questions about the middle east and that's it If i'm curious about south europeans it will immediately be a mess.

[Kamal900]

exactly bro you see I just asked a simple question because I was confused by some results and look at their reactions and they dare to say it's me who have a problem smh It seems we're restricted to ask questions about the middle east and that's it If i'm curious about south europeans it will immediately be a mess.

I guess it's mostly due to their great sensitivity when it comes to them and their relations with Berbers. For us Palis, it's not something that is odd or whatever since Berbers are also part of our genetic heritage and all that nor do we have any kind of racial insecurities about ourselves either since we don't give much fuck about that either. The thing is that we Palestinians do get shit on sometimes by say Lebanese since they look down on us as being more darker than them and so on due on the fact that we're admixed with Egyptians and all(Lebanese Muslims are more admixed with west Asians and Europeans in contrast), but instead of feeling a sense of inferiority we just simply brush these things aside and move on with our lives. Southern Europeans sit in between Northern Europeans and the Middle East genetically, so there are times that they would need to prove their Whiteness or whatever to other Europeans, you know? Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but of all the European groups here it's usually the Southern Europeans are the ones that tend to have sensitivities on these things.

[Gaska]

By reading this I clearly see how biased and complexed you're ...seriously it's really difficult to meet spaniards who are objective and who can put aside their stereotypes. Most portugueses I've met tend to be less ignorant and more respectful anyway what you're saying is completely false and we clearly see that you haven't read anything about Al andalus. There is no "we were at war with them" most moors during that time were local iberians who converted to Islam some of them were even slavs from central and east europe they were called "Saqaliba" so you were just fighting against your own people. Also you have no evidence that you descend from old christians you probably have plenty of morisco and marranes ancestors (not all of them were expulsed btw).

Moreover Visigoths and romans also invaded "your" land but we don't see you complaining about it ...Moors robbed and killed like most soldiers at that time you think christian soldiers were angels ? lol also this "reconquista" is an anachronism there were no such thing as a reconquest simply kingdoms expanding themselves and killing the muslims. Without the call of the Pope and the help of other european crusaders be sure that this "reconquest" would have failed.

Also I disagree spaniards in general aren't that different phenotypically from the moors especially the ones who come from the coastal areas (in my own family plenty of people can pass in iberia easily and some members here have seen my mother and they agreed) myself when I go there I'm always surprised by how some iberians would pass easily in north africa despite the big genetic distance. Btw my people have nothing to do with your people culturally and genetically and i'm not trying to associate my people with yours I just asked a simple question and of course y'all started to act hysterically.

Behave.

I know that you have "skin in the game" when it comes to this topic because you are an immigrant from outside of Europe but it's important that we stick to the facts even if they come at the expense of your own sense of belonging-“I will repeat myself since your small dogmatic brain could not understand it from the first time”

Are you trying to convince us that there was no war in Spain against the Moors? It's the most fun I've heard in many years
I don't care what the Portuguese think, we are very clear that you are our enemies and that we can never trust your word
Morisco and marrano ancestors?- HA HA HA If that were so, the Holy Inquisition would have taken care of them
You and your family can pass in Spain? HA HA HA

Holy shit, get another hobby

[Nassbean]

I guess it's mostly due to their great sensitivity when it comes to them and their relations with Berbers. For us Palis, it's not something that is odd or whatever since Berbers are also part of our genetic heritage and all that nor do we have any kind of racial insecurities about ourselves either since we don't give much fuck about that either. The thing is that we Palestinians do get shit on sometimes by say Lebanese since they look down on us as being more darker than them and so on due on the fact that we're admixed with Egyptians and all(Lebanese Muslims are more admixed with west Asians and Europeans in contrast), but instead of feeling a sense of inferiority we just simply brush these things aside and move on with our lives. Southern Europeans sit in between Northern Europeans and the Middle East genetically, so there are times that they would need to prove their Whiteness or whatever to other Europeans, you know? Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but of all the European groups here it's usually the Southern Europeans are the ones that tend to have sensitivities on these things.

They exaggerate most lebanese I know aren't that light or lighter than the average palestinian that's surprising to see such an arrogant opinion from them but yes I understand we should move on as you say

[Kamal900]

They exaggerate most lebanese I know aren't that light or lighter than the average palestinian that's surprising to see such an arrogant opinion from them but yes I understand we should move on as you say

Indeed, but in their own minds, they think that way since they associate lightness with civilization or something which is obviously a colonial mentality from their former French masters. Not saying all of them are like this since most aren't like that in real life, but there had been instances like this against us, you know?

[Nassbean]

I know that you have "skin in the game" when it comes to this topic because you are an immigrant from outside of Europe but it's important that we stick to the facts even if they come at the expense of your own sense of belonging-“I will repeat myself since your small dogmatic brain could not understand it from the first time”

Are you trying to convince us that there was no war in Spain against the Moors? It's the most fun I've heard in many years
I don't care what the Portuguese think, we are very clear that you are our enemies and that we can never trust your word
Morisco and marrano ancestors?- HA HA HA If that were so, the Holy Inquisition would have taken care of them
You and your family can pass in Spain? HA HA HA

Holy shit, get another hobby

Hahah lol that guy is still stuck in the XVth century thinking he's at war against the moors ... pathetic :lmao How many times should I repeat ? You are obsessed with us while in north africa the only time when NAs think of spaniards it's when they watch football on their TVs lol Also I never said me and my family can pass in spain I said that it's so common that even some members of my own family can pass.

"you are our ennemies" hahah wtf as if I care I can't take you seriously you're just a joke to me

[Leto]

Indeed, but in their own minds, they think that way since they associate lightness with civilization or something which is obviously a colonial mentality from their former French masters. Not saying all of them are like this since most aren't like that in real life, but there had been instances like this against us, you know?
randomguy1234 was Palestinian and he was against Negro and Saudi blood because it's not indigenous.

[Adamastor]

Why all genetics threads in this hellhole end up with lots of whining and trolling? Why people cannot simply discuss things without resorting to these pathetic ''I'm whiter than you'' thoughts.

The fact is: according to genetic studies both Iberians and Sicilians have North African admixture, it's higher in Iberia than in Sicily even if Iberians are much more European than Sicilians in terms of genetics (and phenotype as well IMO, but that's subjective). North African admixture in Sicily is likely recent while in Iberia it probably arrived in different layers.

[Nassbean]

Indeed, but in their own minds, they think that way since they associate lightness with civilization or something which is obviously a colonial mentality from their former French masters. Not saying all of them are like this since most aren't like that in real life, but there had been instances like this against us, you know?

what about syrians and jordanians ? They are ok with you ?

[Nassbean]

Why all genetics threads in this hellhole end up with lots of whining and trolling? Why people cannot simply discuss things without resorting to these pathetic ''I'm whiter than you'' thoughts.

The fact is: according to genetic studies both Iberians and Sicilians have North African admixture, it's higher in Iberia than in Sicily even if Iberians are much more European than Sicilians in terms of genetics (and phenotype as well IMO, but that's subjective). North African admixture in Sicily is likely recent while in Iberia it probably arrived in different layers.

thanks at last one definitive and serious answer

[Kamal900]

what about syrians and jordanians ? They are ok with you ?

Jordanians are good, but Syrians are the best Levantines to us Palestinians.

[Gaska]

It doesn't change the fact that iberians have NA admixture.

NO, North Africans have Iberian admixture, if you do not understand it is because you are simply blinded by your own biases

[Nassbean]

NO, North Africans have Iberian admixture, if you do not understand it is because you are simply blinded by your own biases

stop trolling I posted studies. Btw not all north africans have iberian admixture it's mainly coastal populations. Yes we have iberian admixture and you have north african admixture. Period.

[Kamal900]

randomguy1234 was Palestinian and he was against Negro and Saudi blood because it's not indigenous.

That's because he had some insecurities about himself and race. I mean, he was born and raised in the US which obviously would have an affect in his way of thinking and his ethnicity as a whole which is why he once went to a rabbi and showed him his genetic results which resulted the rabbi being angry with him, rofl. Now, I don't want to beat a dead horse since it's been said and done a really long time ago and so on, and what happened in the past stays in the past.

[Gaska]

Post your gedmatch K13 please.


I would be ashamed

[Jana]

I would be ashamed

Just post components, I will post mine. And no, I am not interested in your North African score knowing you are Basque.

[Samnium]

Why all genetics threads in this hellhole end up with lots of whining and trolling? Why people cannot simply discuss things without resorting to these pathetic ''I'm whiter than you'' thoughts.

The fact is: according to genetic studies both Iberians and Sicilians have North African admixture, it's higher in Iberia than in Sicily even if Iberians are much more European than Sicilians in terms of genetics (and phenotype as well IMO, but that's subjective). North African admixture in Sicily is likely recent while in Iberia it probably arrived in different layers.

True in genetics, not true in phenotype.

There are lot of very exotic Iberian types like you would see in Sicily. Most of Sicilians look average southern Euro. So no they don't look less "european".

By lightness they might even come as similar in lightness rates.

[Adamastor]

True in genetics, not true in phenotype.

There are lot of very exotic Iberian types like you would see in Sicily. Most of Sicilians look average southern Euro. So no they don't look less "european".

By lightness they might even come as similar in lightness rates.

I think genetics and phenotype generally correlate; average Southern Euro is already a dark phenotype for European standards (most Europeans are not Southern Europeans) and when you add 25%+ of some ''exotic'' admixture it becomes difficult to say there's no correlation to phenotype. Having 5-10% of some stuff is one thing, 20%+ another completely different.

[Jana]

Most Europeans are in fact ''dark''. Some non Europeans have weird idea average central European is blond for example. Even in northern Europe majority of adults have brown hair. Keep that in mind.

[Leto]

I think genetics and phenotype generally correlate; average Southern Euro is already a dark phenotype for European standards (most Europeans are not Southern Europeans) and when you add 25%+ of some ''exotic'' admixture it becomes difficult to say there's no correlation to phenotype. Having 5-10% of some stuff is one thing, 20%+ another completely different.
East Eurasian is often noticeable even in relatively small amounts for instance. Look at Tatars, some are white-passing but many look hapa.

[Adamastor]

East Eurasian is noticeable even in relatively small amounts for instance. Look at Tatars, some are white-passing but many look hapa.

I agree, but Tatars probably also passed for a borealization process making them to look more Mongoloid, it's very common for people living in relatively northern latitudes to display Mongoloid features. I've seen Nordics who probably score little if any East Eurasian looking ''Mongoloid''.

How much East Eurasian are the Tatars? Compare with Turks, for example. Despite the obsession Turkish members here have for Mongoloids and the widespread ''Turanid'' classification most Turks look Caucasoid even being 5-12% East Eurasian autosomally. Average persons barely can see differences between Eastern Turks and Armenians or Western Turks and Greeks (I do believe most Turkish people in Western regions look white/European).

[Leto]

I agree, but Tatars probably also passed for a borealization process making them to look more Mongoloid, it's very common for people living in relatively northern latitudes to display Mongoloid features. I've seen Nordics who probably score little if any East Eurasian looking ''Mongoloid''.

How much East Eurasian are the Tatars? Compare with Turks, for example. Despite the obsession Turkish members here have for Mongoloids and the widespread ''Turanid'' classification most Turks look Caucasoid even being 5-12% East Eurasian autosomally. Average persons barely can see differences between Eastern Turks and Armenians or Western Turks and Greeks (I do believe most Turkish people in Western regions look white/European).
Tatars in European Russia are ca. 20% East Eurasian, some more, some less. But that's not a super cold region, a little colder than Central Europe maybe.
Western Turks can be up to 20% and I don't think most of them look white. Some do for sure. They love their mongoloid because their state is based on the idea of Turkicness (i.e. Asian conquerors). It sucks to be an assimilated West Asian living on a stolen land. Russians for example don't have positive feelings about their "mongoloid" because they are told it's from rape and humiliation which is not even true, just a popular misconception.

[Samnium]

I think genetics and phenotype generally correlate; average Southern Euro is already a dark phenotype for European standards (most Europeans are not Southern Europeans) and when you add 25%+ of some ''exotic'' admixture it becomes difficult to say there's no correlation to phenotype. Having 5-10% of some stuff is one thing, 20%+ another completely different.

I doubt you know that much about how Sicilian can look like, this region has variation just like Iberia. And by the way two phenotypes that are very common in Iberia : Gracile Med and Atlanto-Med are also very present in Sicily.

I don't know if you're trying to push the "Atlantid facad" agenda but actually Spaniards look closer to Southern.Italians than to any Central Euro/other Western country. Excepted France.

Southern Italians don't look like if they are 20% Levantine, and lightness is definitely not overrated amongst them.

In my italian family I've redheads, light eyed individuals, people that could pass in France and other Western countries or in NW Balkans (like my grandmother). They don't show any Levantine feature or whatever, and indeed I don't have even one.

[Adamastor]

Tatars in European Russia are ca. 20% East Eurasian, some more, some less. But that's not a super cold region, a little colder than Central Europe maybe.
Western Turks can be up to 20% and I don't think most of them look white. Some do for sure.

Wow, I didn't know Turks could reach 20% East Eurasian, I agree that that is significant amount. Certainly enough to influence phenotype in many individuals. A population that is 100% West Eurasian (let's say the Caucasoid ancestors of the Turks) and another one that is 80% will have many individuals looking similar, but also many other individuals from the 80% population looking mixed.

Do you know any autosomal study on Turks and Tatars? I ask because I don't trust completely GEDmatch and GEDmatch based studies to measure these things.

[Leto]

Wow, I didn't know Turks could reach 20% East Eurasian, I agree that that is significant amount. Certainly enough to influence phenotype in many individuals. A population that is 100% West Eurasian (let's say the Caucasoid ancestors of the Turks) and another one that is 80% will have many individuals looking similar, but also many other individuals from the 80% population looking mixed.

Do you know any autosomal study on Turks and Tatars? I ask because I don't trust completely GEDmatch and GEDmatch based studies to measure these things.
I can't think of any study offhand, unfortunately. Only Gedmatch and G25 plus amateur threads about it.

[Adamastor]

I doubt you know that much about how Sicilian can look like, this region has variation just like Iberia. And by the way two phenotypes that are very common in Iberia : Gracile Med and Atlanto-Med are also very present in Sicily.

I don't know if you're trying to push the "Atlantid facadd" agenda but actually Spaniards look closer to Southern.Italians than to any Central Euro/other Western country. Excepted France.

Southern Italians don't look like if they are 20% Levantine, and lightness is definitely not overrated amongst them.

In my italian family I've redheads, light eyed individuals, people that could pass in France and other Western countries or in NW Balkans (like my grandmother). They don't show any Levantine feature or whatever, and indeed I don't have even one.

Why would I have 'Atlantic Facade' agenda? I'm just noting that admixture up to 20-25% generally show up on phenotype. You can have even individual people mixed with Aboriginal, Onge or Central African Pygmies in 75/25 range looking white, but in any population, regardless of the admixture, 1/4 is too much to not show on a collective level.

[Duffmannn]

Indeed, but in their own minds, they think that way since they associate lightness with civilization or something which is obviously a colonial mentality from their former French masters. Not saying all of them are like this since most aren't like that in real life, but there had been instances like this against us, you know?

Lebanon was a prosperous, developed, peaceful and christian majority country until palestinian refugees flooded it, thus becaming a shithole and beginning a civil war due to their intention of becoming its receiving country into a muslim-only one.

You should be ashamed of having destroyed the single oasis of peace and prosperity in the Near East apart Israel.

If I were lebanese I would do exactly the same.

[Leto]

Syria was fine before the globalists ruined it starting in 2011. Now, even if the war ends tomorrow, it will take years upon years to rebuild everything.

[SharpFork]

@Adamastor @Feichy @Nassbean

What is your opinion for when the North African admixture entered the various regions in Iberia? Experimenting with nMonte it seems to me that outside some minor Bronze Age influence most of the North African entered during the Roman period or Umayyad period. Not really "ancient admixture"

[Rocinante]

Aunque podía mandar también el de mi padre. La verdad estos tipos son unos pesados, supongo que llevarán años dando la barrila con el tema-

Aca hay gente que esta con la labor de trolear a los españoles y por eso cuando salimos de nuestra zona de confort en los threads que discutimos de la Vieja Nación, hay que sacar la espada, porque los otros threads mira nada mas.

[Rocinante]

North africans are only 1/3 iberomaurusian the north african component is way more than just iberomaurusian so no all the studies show that iberians (except basques) have north african admixture that is both ancient and recent.

Mate... The little % of NA that the average iberian person have, at least is 80% ancient in average, it can't be less. I don't know bout moroccans heritage but the common ancestry is way pred. Ibero-marussian.

[Leto]

Again why are you lying ? We have the autosomal results of guanches who were isolated from any arab invasions or slave trade and they are similar to modern north africans :

https://i.imgur.com/Kd8A6ks.png

so no we aren't mulattoes and we didn't change that much stop your propaganda you filthy racist.
I think you once said only pockets of Morocco remain unmixed while the largest urban areas are mulattoized.

French football star Mamadou Sakho is married to a Moroccan
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article21300267.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_Mamadou-Sakho-Instagram-pics.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Most Europeans are in fact ''dark''. Some non Europeans have weird idea average central European is blond for example. Even in northern Europe majority of adults have brown hair. Keep that in mind.

But there is a difference between the mousy/light brown hair that predominates in Northern and even Central Europe versus the very dark brown hair that predominates further South.

Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, probably Iberia but only very marginally.

[Voskos]

In my vahaduo attempt to get spaniards modelled, average Spaniard is no more than 1.9% Berber (see last row ''Average'').

https://snipboard.io/Xq8VTe.jpg
https://snipboard.io/EpPGvf.jpg

[Jana]

But there is a difference between the mousy/light brown hair that predominates in Northern and even Central Europe versus the very dark brown hair that predominates further South.

Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, probably Iberia but only very marginally.

Both are not light. For me light is blond and red hair. Average hair color in UK and Germany is medium brown.

[SharpFork]

In my vahaduo attempt to get spaniards modelled, average Spaniard is no more than 1.9% Berber (see last row ''Average'').

Dude Iberia Northeast c.8-12CE has like 2% "Iberomaurusian" in it and all South East sample form the common era have North African in them which didn't exist prior and you are obviously filtering the North African componenent throught it:

"sample": "Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:Average",
"fit": 1.5352,
"Bell_Beaker_Iberia": 67.5,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 18.33,
"DEU_Unetice_EBA": 12.5,
"MAR_Taforalt": 1.67,

"sample": "Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:Average",
"fit": 1.3419,
"Bell_Beaker_Iberia": 45,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 28.33,
"DEU_Unetice_EBA": 17.5,
"MAR_Taforalt": 9.17,

"sample": "Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE:Average",
"fit": 1.9612,
"Bell_Beaker_Iberia": 54.17,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 27.5,
"DEU_Unetice_EBA": 9.17,
"MAR_Taforalt": 9.17,

"sample": "Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:Average",
"fit": 2.1215,
"Bell_Beaker_Iberia": 59.17,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 30.83,
"MAR_Taforalt": 7.5,
"DEU_Unetice_EBA": 2.5,

"sample": "Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:Average",
"fit": 2.0774,
"Bell_Beaker_Iberia": 65,
"DEU_Unetice_EBA": 24.17,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 9.17,
"MAR_Taforalt": 1.67,

You should have seen that something was wrong when Basque had North African when most others didn't.

You should probably try not using all those samples and limiting yourself to the pre-Roman samples(given all the iron age ones lack North African ancestry AFAIK), also seems weird to use one single Morrocan region when you use a dozen and more Spanish ones, imagine if you did the opposite!

[SharpFork]

Mate... The little % of NA that the average iberian person have, at least is 80% ancient in average, it can't be less. I don't know bout moroccans heritage but the common ancestry is way pred. Ibero-marussian.
But on what basis you say this? By using early Bronze ages samples as the basis virtually no North African admixture existed outside the South before the Roman era(not that we can see NA admixture there, but we don't have Iron age samples from there AFAIK), do you have gedmatch results of Iron or Bronze age Iberians that have all the "SSAfrican" components?

[Duffmannn]

But on what basis you say this? By using early Bronze ages samples as the basis virtually no North African admixture existed outside the South before the Roman era(not that we can see NA admixture there, but we don't have Iron age samples from there AFAIK), do you have gedmatch results of Iron or Bronze age Iberians that have all the "SSAfrican" components?

Because the most "northafrican" regions in Spain are Asturias and Galicia, where there was never any northafrican rule or migration. 0.

There's even one valley in Cantabria, Valle del Pas, where the "northafrican" admixture is atonishing. But there was any northafrican rule there too. You can write in Google images "pasiegos" to know how they look.

[Nassbean]

@Adamastor @Feichy @Nassbean

What is your opinion for when the North African admixture entered the various regions in Iberia? Experimenting with nMonte it seems to me that outside some minor Bronze Age influence most of the North African entered during the Roman period or Umayyad period. Not really "ancient admixture"

Yes actually that's also what the studies show that this NA admixture mainly appeared during the punic/roman era but let's wait for more data/samples I'm sure it will show earlier migrations

[Voskos]

Dude Iberia Northeast c.8-12CE has like 2% "Iberomaurusian" in it and all South East sample form the common era have North African in them which didn't exist prior and you are obviously filtering the North African componenent throught it.You should have seen that something was wrong when Basque had North African when most others didn't.

You should probably try not using all those samples and limiting yourself to the pre-Roman samples(given all the iron age ones lack North African ancestry AFAIK), also seems weird to use one single Morrocan region when you use a dozen and more Spanish ones, imagine if you did the opposite!

So what? I did that on purpose, to show that recent berber admixture is minimal once you take into account the assimilation of christian north africans in the roman era.


also seems weird to use one single Morrocan region when you use a dozen and more Spanish ones

i found 3 moroccan regions on the spreadsheet and tried them all at once. this one gave the highest berber.

[Samnium]

Both are not light. For me light is blond and red hair. Average hair color in UK and Germany is medium brown.

I definitely agree.

And most of the time you don't even see clearly the difference between Medium and Dark Brown.

Only with Light Brown. Light eyes are actually way more common.

[Nassbean]

Because the most "northafrican" regions in Spain are Asturias and Galicia, where there was never any northafrican rule or migration. 0.

There's even one valley in Cantabria, Valle del Pas, where the "northafrican" admixture is atonishing. But there was any northafrican rule there too. You can write in Google images "pasiegos" to know how they look.

actually some moriscos went there and some moors after the berber revolt of 740 went there too and converted to christianity. There is also the berber soldiers who settled there during the punic and roman era for example if I remember correctly some berber soldiers fought with the romans at the siege of Numantia in 134 BC and in reward they receive some fields in northern iberia