Afghan kochi nomad people

[Nomansman]

Just wanted to post pics of one of the most iconic people to afghans in AFG and hear your opinions about them.
Here are some pics:


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678407643768815616/ccax7atwwaaruuh.png?width=285&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678405479805747250/family-of-kuchi-nomads-walks-to-a-polling-station-in-the-countryside-picture-id55712412.png?width=608&height=428
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678405783926472704/6_094_feature_lo_res.png?width=569&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678406312975007774/6_123.png?width=569&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678407850514448414/unknown.png?width=258&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678408012205129728/24bc7e9bc626b917237e10ff66145988.png?width=345&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678408522022780928/15406034868_11bded4cfe_b.png?width=633&height=428
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678408883370459137/maslakh-herat-ostafghanistan-kochi-afghanische-nomaden-frauen-im-camp-fur-intern-vertriebene-d9mam5.png?width=271&height=428
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678408972415270944/Nomads-and-flocks-e1384046659890.png?width=573&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678409040979820554/pakistan-nomads-wana-pakistan-shutterstock-editorial-7180413d.png?width=616&height=428
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678409268374011904/Kuchi-caravan-624x416-310x200.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678410618700693514/EC1ByNPXoAAvTpY.png?width=639&height=428
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678410941695524864/afghan-kochi-nomad-girls-study-outside-their-tent-in-the-zhari-of-picture-id511815352.png?width=670&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678411095505109046/an-afghan-kochi-children-hold-an-election-posters-of-afghan-candidate-picture-id53456628.png?width=657&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678411169685569536/afghan-kochi-tribesmen-dance-an-afghan-national-dance-called-attan-in-picture-id89199660.png?width=614&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678411392285409300/afghan-naim-kochi-isn-931-was-arrested-by-american-soldiers-on-the-picture-id112916152.png?width=307&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678411533902151700/afghan-election-candidate-fahima-ahmadzai-emerges-from-a-tent-as-an-picture-id53456571.png?width=655&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678412200007827488/unknown.png?width=499&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678413216048611377/unknown.png?width=635&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678415099425325065/an-afghan-kochi-tribesman-holds-a-picture-of-former-afghan-finance-picture-id89199407.png?width=595&height=427
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/585338821739020309/678414349517455370/unknown-44.png?width=616&height=428

[Nomansman]

Bump

[Nomansman]

Bumpity bump

[NPKTO]

Irano Afghan, Irano Nordids especially kids. Men on last picture show some form of AASI influence. Does not mean they look South Asian though. Overall, they look distinctively South Central Asian.

[Nomansman]

More opinions

[Nomansman]

bump

[alpha.ghot]

Most of the photos are of low quality but anyways they look Pashtun.

[Nomansman]

Bump

[Pro.crasti.nation]

Some of the women look good. Very, very good.

<-- Would I pass as an Afghan? ;)

[Avicenna]

Some of the women look good. Very, very good.

<-- Would I pass as an Afghan? ;)

No

[Nomansman]

Some of the women look good. Very, very good.

<-- Would I pass as an Afghan? ;)

Yeah, even with light skin you kind of look punjabi

[Avicenna]

Yeah, even with light skin you kind of look punjabi

His skin isn't even light I can guarantee you . It's just the exposure of camera on his skin .

[Nomansman]

More pics of kochi people:



https://c8.alamy.com/comp/D9M4PJ/herat-eastern-afghanistan-kochi-afghan-nomad-women-holding-health-D9M4PJ.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/D8ARTG/herat-eastern-afghanistan-elderly-kochi-afghan-nomad-woman-D8ARTG.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/D8ARTR/herat-eastern-afghanistan-kochi-afghan-nomad-midwife-bringing-newborn-D8ARTR.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/2749/4376672709_9eb8726def.jpg

[Nomansman]

More pics of them:



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7UcsmRCQAAMqdA.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/3f/c5/083fc5ff67a803a3da4553c6aeb53bca.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/2d/f7/1d2df7e0cf59b6a415666f45b184e87a.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/91/ea/b791ea05ce738b0b7ee0e5baa7eee6b4.jpg

[Zoro]

I have always noticed that they tend to be lighter pigmented with more frequency of blonde hair than city people even with them being outdoors all day And remarkably similar to some of the nomadic peoples inside Iran such as Qashqai, Kurds and others.

I have noticed the lighter pigmentation and blonde hair with nomadic kurds and other nomadic Iranian peoples.

Since they are likely less admixed than city people I’m guessing that’s how many of the peoples migrating into Afghanistan from the Caucasus and northern W. Asia looked looked like before mixing with local ASI ( Iran N + AASI).

[Nomansman]

I have always noticed that they tend to be lighter pigmented with more frequency of blonde hair than city people even with them being outdoors all day And remarkably similar to some of the nomadic peoples inside Iran such as Qashqai, Kurds and others.

I have noticed the lighter pigmentation and blonde hair with nomadic kurds and other nomadic Iranian peoples.

Since they are likely less admixed than city people I’m guessing that’s how many of the peoples migrating into Afghanistan from the Caucasus and northern W. Asia looked looked like before mixing with local ASI ( Iran N + AASI).

I still imagine them to be more similiar to many afghans. Even have some samples with kochi ancestors. They seemed more to be on the western shifted end of the huge afghan cluster though

[Avicenna]

I have always noticed that they tend to be lighter pigmented with more frequency of blonde hair than city people even with them being outdoors all day And remarkably similar to some of the nomadic peoples inside Iran such as Qashqai, Kurds and others.

I have noticed the lighter pigmentation and blonde hair with nomadic kurds and other nomadic Iranian peoples.

Since they are likely less admixed than city people I’m guessing that’s how many of the peoples migrating into Afghanistan from the Caucasus and northern W. Asia looked looked like before mixing with local ASI ( Iran N + AASI).

Light pigmented ? Kuchi are not known for being light so that's the not reason imo . Also not all city urban populations are dark . Here is a good representation of afghans from Kabul .


https://youtu.be/7_D2urCMy-Y


https://youtu.be/1C7NnKqDcjE


https://youtu.be/tD-GEQ7qwic

[Zoro]

Light pigmented ? Kuchi are not known for being light so that's the not reason imo . Also not all city urban populations are dark . Here is a good representation of afghans from Kabul .


https://youtu.be/7_D2urCMy-Y





Well comparing them to let’s say pashtuns from kandahar Ningarhar or Jalalabad they look more Caucasian with more blond hair. To me that translates into less Iran N and AASI

[Pro.crasti.nation]

His skin isn't even light I can guarantee you . It's just the exposure of camera on his skin .

My album's there, for all to see, not all my photos are taken under the same light.

[Yaglakar]

Do they have felt tents?

[Avicenna]

Which album ? I cant see any pics

[Avicenna]

My album's there, for all to see, not all my photos are taken under the same light.

Which album ? I cant see any pics

[Avicenna]

Well comparing them to let’s say pashtuns from kandahar Ningarhar or Jalalabad they look more Caucasian with more blond hair. To me that translates into less Iran N and AASI

That's not necessarily true either . Yes usually dark types are from metropolitan cities such as jalalabad, kanadahar but ningarahar province generally produces very light types too . What you are talking about is completely irrelevant my friend . Iran N and AASI is thousands years prior to kuchi nomad history .

In additon, nuristanis are the lightest afghans and they have more AASI than southern pashtuns who can be quite dark ( look at nomansman). Bringing up ancient components , some that aren't even real to begin with ( AASI for now ) in topics and correlating them phentoypes makes no sense.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

Which album ? I cant see any pics

There's only one album under my profile.

[Avicenna]

There's only one album under my profile.
Okay but where are your pics ?

[Nomansman]

Do they have felt tents?

I think they do have tents. After all theyre nomads.

[Zoro]

That's not necessarily true either . Yes usually dark types are from metropolitan cities such as jalalabad, kanadahar but ningarahar province generally produces very light types too . What you are talking about is completely irrelevant my friend . Iran N and AASI is thousands years prior to kuchi nomad history .

In additon, nuristanis are the lightest afghans and they have more AASI than southern pashtuns who can be quite dark ( look at nomansman). Bringing up ancient components , some that aren't even real to begin with ( AASI for now ) in topics and correlating them phentoypes makes no sense.

What I mean by AASI+Iran N is ASI that was present in IVC. I think Kuchis and Kalash//Nuristanis on avg are less IVC admixed than pashtuns from cities I mentioned.

In fact kalash have the most ANI ( steppe + iran chl ) than other groups in Pakistan. Admixture calculators should definitely not be used on such highly drifted people. I would use formal stats and other 1 to 1 population testing tools to figure out AASI in Nuristanis and kalash. I bet it’s very low

[Negah]

Do youhave any genetic results for the kochis? If you do please post them in other thread.

[Nomansman]

Do have any genetic results for the kochis? If you do please post them in other thread.


I posted them long time ago. One of them were a ghazni pashtun with slight iranian ancestry, the other were a kabuli with zabul kochi ancestors(although he's also partly peshewari). You can check them in the harappaworld thread(sadly, the ghazni kit isnt avaiable anymore).

[Avicenna]

What I mean by AASI+Iran N is ASI that was present in IVC. I think Kuchis and Kalash//Nuristanis on avg are less IVC admixed than pashtuns from cities I mentioned.

In fact kalash have the most ANI ( steppe + iran chl ) than other groups in Pakistan. Admixture calculators should definitely not be used on such highly drifted people. I would use formal stats and other 1 to 1 population testing tools to figure out AASI in Nuristanis and kalash. I bet it’s very low

We can only speculate right now tbh . Kuchis seem very dark to me .

[Negah]

We can only speculate right now tbh . Kuchis seem very dark to me .

They seem desperately poor. How large are they?

[Nomansman]

Althoough nuristanis have higher amount of lighter people, i dont think theyre really much lighter as whole compared to rest of afg.

Sure you can pick up lighter looking nuris(remember also that nuris are a mix of different tribes and while some are more similiar to kalashis, i heard from some afghans other nuris might also be genetically closer to south pamiris/ishkashimis/similiar to badaskhsis), but i wouldnt be suprised if majority looked like this:



https://cdn.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/0707/49540/1444x1932_q95.jpg
https://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.78545.1273638645!/image/4251468132.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/4251468132.jpg
https://bobshepherdauthor.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/nuristani-family-near-kunar-river-at-kam-desh.jpg7
https://tkg.af/english/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/08/abdullah-new-pic.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-FgvXTRxI/AAAAAAAAAVM/alY_Iyx5zBg/s320/100218-F-2222C-167.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-GGaSv3cI/AAAAAAAAAVc/rFar9V4TBPU/s320/100218-F-2222C-176.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-FzcA7p0I/AAAAAAAAAVU/s5aWCL3CKto/s320/100218-F-2222C-170.jpg
https://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2012/06/14/77488_img650x420_img650x420_crop.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSB6pAPP52YqYtTnr59KHL14EriYBN 9OiK5005N8DOqWSvvZ0r1
https://i.imgur.com/MM5eC6D.jpg


Not really that different looking from other afghans all over the country. And although south afghans are darker, i doubt its like comparing kandahris to nuris is like comparing pamiris to punjabis.


Kalash people as well:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Kalasha_women.jpg
https://www.arabnews.pk/sites/default/files/styles/n_670_395/public/main-image/2018/07/28/1266686-1312376033.jpg?itok=8FhaCbyb
https://www.arabnews.pk/sites/default/files/styles/n_670_395/public/2018/07/28/1266691-1359078607.jpg?itok=I0wraNMi
https://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/mj-618_348_pakistan-pagan-valley.jpg?w=618&h=348&crop=1
https://gdb.rferl.org/B72AAAE5-CF2C-46AC-B8B0-A30AF494473D_w1024_q10_s.jpg
https://newslinemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/216-1024x768.gif
https://c.tribune.com.pk/2014/05/709300-chitralfestival-1400259578.jpg


Sure you can do the same thing with kalashis as you can do with nuris: Posting the lighter people.
But most of the time, 1/2 of the pics with the light/western shifted looking people also have darker, more native looking people.


Honestly, it just seems like some people exaggerate the lightness of some people.

[Zoro]

We can only speculate right now tbh . Kuchis seem very dark to me .

Most of the ones I’ve seen are very Caucasian/w asian looking like the ones in pics 2,3,4 down

[Avicenna]

Althoough nuristanis have higher amount of lighter people, i dont think theyre really much lighter as whole compared to rest of afg.

Sure you can pick up lighter looking nuris(remember also that nuris are a mix of different tribes and while some are more similiar to kalashis, i heard from some afghans other nuris might also be genetically closer to south pamiris/ishkashimis/similiar to badaskhsis), but i wouldnt be suprised if majority looked like this:



https://cdn.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/0707/49540/1444x1932_q95.jpg
https://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.78545.1273638645!/image/4251468132.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/4251468132.jpg
https://bobshepherdauthor.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/nuristani-family-near-kunar-river-at-kam-desh.jpg7
https://tkg.af/english/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/08/abdullah-new-pic.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-FgvXTRxI/AAAAAAAAAVM/alY_Iyx5zBg/s320/100218-F-2222C-167.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-GGaSv3cI/AAAAAAAAAVc/rFar9V4TBPU/s320/100218-F-2222C-176.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-FzcA7p0I/AAAAAAAAAVU/s5aWCL3CKto/s320/100218-F-2222C-170.jpg
https://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2012/06/14/77488_img650x420_img650x420_crop.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSB6pAPP52YqYtTnr59KHL14EriYBN 9OiK5005N8DOqWSvvZ0r1
https://i.imgur.com/MM5eC6D.jpg


Not really that different looking from other afghans all over the country. And although south afghans are darker, i doubt its like comparing kandahris to nuris is like comparing pamiris to punjabis.

South afghans like kandaharis aren't even dark in terms of facial features . Alot of them are just very tanned especially during the summer since kandahar, Helmand and surrounding regions have very hot summers . But yeah you are right I'm guessing .

[Avicenna]

Most of the ones I’ve seen are very Caucasian/w asian looking like the ones in pics 2,3,4 down

Urban afghans

[

[Zoro]

To me they look like very average Afghan Tajiks most of whom can very easily pass in Kurdistan and NW Iran and some Caucasus countries

[Avicenna]

Althoough nuristanis have higher amount of lighter people, i dont think theyre really much lighter as whole compared to rest of afg.

Sure you can pick up lighter looking nuris(remember also that nuris are a mix of different tribes and while some are more similiar to kalashis, i heard from some afghans other nuris might also be genetically closer to south pamiris/ishkashimis/similiar to badaskhsis), but i wouldnt be suprised if majority looked like this:



https://cdn.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/0707/49540/1444x1932_q95.jpg
https://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.78545.1273638645!/image/4251468132.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/4251468132.jpg
https://bobshepherdauthor.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/nuristani-family-near-kunar-river-at-kam-desh.jpg7
https://tkg.af/english/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/08/abdullah-new-pic.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-FgvXTRxI/AAAAAAAAAVM/alY_Iyx5zBg/s320/100218-F-2222C-167.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-GGaSv3cI/AAAAAAAAAVc/rFar9V4TBPU/s320/100218-F-2222C-176.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QU5jtWQKK9U/S3-FzcA7p0I/AAAAAAAAAVU/s5aWCL3CKto/s320/100218-F-2222C-170.jpg
https://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2012/06/14/77488_img650x420_img650x420_crop.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSB6pAPP52YqYtTnr59KHL14EriYBN 9OiK5005N8DOqWSvvZ0r1
https://i.imgur.com/MM5eC6D.jpg


Not really that different looking from other afghans all over the country. And although south afghans are darker, i doubt its like comparing kandahris to nuris is like comparing pamiris to punjabis.


Kalash people as well:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Kalasha_women.jpg
https://www.arabnews.pk/sites/default/files/styles/n_670_395/public/main-image/2018/07/28/1266686-1312376033.jpg?itok=8FhaCbyb
https://www.arabnews.pk/sites/default/files/styles/n_670_395/public/2018/07/28/1266691-1359078607.jpg?itok=I0wraNMi
https://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/mj-618_348_pakistan-pagan-valley.jpg?w=618&h=348&crop=1
https://gdb.rferl.org/B72AAAE5-CF2C-46AC-B8B0-A30AF494473D_w1024_q10_s.jpg
https://newslinemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/216-1024x768.gif
https://c.tribune.com.pk/2014/05/709300-chitralfestival-1400259578.jpg


Sure you can do the same thing with kalashis as you can do with nuris: Posting the lighter people.
But most of the time, 1/2 of the pics with the light/western shifted looking people also have darker, more native looking people.


Honestly, it just seems like some people exaggerate the lightness of some people.

You can apply the same logic to pretty much any Caucasoid group , especially southern and se Europeans. Kalash are very light compared to their Punjabi, Sindhi neighbours .

[Nomansman]

You can apply the same logic to pretty much any Caucasoid group , especially southern and se Europeans. Kalash are very light compared to their Punjabi, Sindhi neighbours .

Theyre light and different looking to most/almost all punjabis and sindhis, but they arent as light as some people portray them as.

[Avicenna]

Theyre light and different looking to most/almost all punjabis and sindhis, but they arent as light as some people portray them as.

Unless you have actually visited the region itself , I don't think you can make bold statements like that . I'm not kalash nor have I visited that region , so I can't be sure You can look at pics all you want , but you are biased deep down . I can show you videos of kalash and majoirty of them look what they are portrayed as . Maybe not Nordic looking , but certainly a unique aesthetic that is admired by most Pakistanis and south Asians .

[Nomansman]

Unless you have actually visited the region itself , I don't think you can make bold statements like that . I'm not kalash nor have I visited that region , so I can't be sure You can look at pics all you want , but you are biased deep down . I can show you videos of kalash and majoirty of them look what they are portrayed as . Maybe not Nordic looking , but certainly a unique aesthetic that is admired by most Pakistanis and south Asians .

Im not saying they look punjabi. I seen pics of them, so i know much as you do about kalashis. Im just saying theyre darker than some people portray them as(like lighter pamiris, which shouldnt be the case). But yeah, i just cant make such statements myself either.
But i just dont really think they look super light compared to pashtuns though and probs darker

[Avicenna]

Im not saying they look punjabi. I seen pics of them, so i know much as you do about kalashis. Im just saying theyre darker than some people portray them as(like lighter pamiris, which shouldnt be the case). But yeah, i just cant make such statements myself either.
But i just dont really think they look super light compared to pashtuns though and probs darker

Where did I mention that you said they looked Punjabi ? I don't know why people are throwing the term "whitewash " around nowadays . Kalash are not whitewashed . I don't think anyone assumes they are misplaced icelandics tbh . The whole region itself ( south central Asia ) was a place that fascinated tourists and photographers . The sub continent has always been well known for tourists etc but not south central Asia ( nw Pakistan , afghanistan , tajikstan ). Imagine seeing typical Indian phentoypes for thousands of miles then as soon as you get to this region you start seeing "euro " looking types .

Fyi I am NOT saying that those phentoypes are better or more special than sub continent phenotypes . I'm just assuming western photographers and tourists were fascinated at how they looked . Not many people knew that region had so many diverse types .

[Nomansman]

Bump

[Kamal900]

Overall, they look what they are, Central Asiatic Caucasoid, and they resemble more closely with west Asians than to South Asians as a whole.

[Nomansman]

More thoughts about them?

[Trouble]

I can never understand how these Hindu Kush people , some of which are almost equidistant to me as many SI tribals look completely different and I look much more like the latter. It seems the ASI phenotype is dominant in me and most curries

[Nomansman]

I can never understand how these Hindu Kush people , some of which are almost equidistant to me as many SI tribals look completely different and I look much more like the latter. It seems the ASI phenotype is dominant in me and most curries

You said it yourself.
SC asian folks are most of the time have a significantly high amount of bmac/sintashta admix and lower aasi, which ends up making them more western shifted(although they dont end up too western shifted always) and specially compared to south asians.

South asians however have a higher amount of aasi and iran n admix compared to sc asians always(also lower steppe admix) making them appear darker. Although i assume many haryanna jatts/rors and kambojas can appear to look like afghans a lot of the times, most nw south asians however have less steppe and bmac admix(i thinkk kambojas got some bmac admix in them) compared to the other nw south asians(kambojas and haryanna folks) even look even darker.

Youre however south indian. I seen your hw results before. Extremely low steppe and no bmac admix. And your iran n/aasi admix is the more dominant componensts in you. ALso, south indian tribals(despite having higher aasi and lower iran n + no steppe at all) got some iran n admix as well. So i assume thats why you look more similiar south indian tribals?

[Trouble]

You said it yourself.
SC asian folks are most of the time have a significantly high amount of bmac/sintashta admix and lower aasi, which ends up making them more western shifted(although they dont end up too western shifted always) and specially compared to south asians.

South asians however have a higher amount of aasi and iran n admix compared to sc asians always(also lower steppe admix) making them appear darker. Although i assume many haryanna jatts/rors and kambojas can appear to look like afghans a lot of the times, most nw south asians however have less steppe and bmac admix(i thinkk kambojas got some bmac admix in them) compared to the other nw south asians(kambojas and haryanna folks) even look even darker.

Youre however south indian. I seen your hw results before. Extremely low steppe and no bmac admix. And your iran n/aasi admix is the more dominant componensts in you. ALso, south indian tribals(despite having higher aasi and lower iran n + no steppe at all) got some iran n admix as well. So i assume thats why you look more similiar south indian tribals?

I have some BMAC and steppe is at 7-8%. HW can not tell you how much of these you have got. G25 can.

Yet the distance between me and the tribals is still great but I look like them anyways

[Avicenna]

I have some BMAC and steppe is at 7-8%. HW can not tell you how much of these you have got. G25 can.

Yet the distance between me and the tribals is still great but I look like them anyways

Can I see you hw results bro please ?

[Nomansman]

I have some BMAC and steppe is at 7-8%. HW can not tell you how much of these you have got. G25 can.

Yet the distance between me and the tribals is still great but I look like them anyways

Youre steppe is likely partly iran n/bmac.

If you got 7-8%, then afghans/sc asians get like 25-33%, which is a big difference.

Also, i think youre comparing yourself to tribals with even lower iran n. SOme got higher, some get lower.
Anyway, youre mostly aasi/ivc/iran n+aasi combo, so its no wonder why you look so much like them.

[Nomansman]

Can I see you hw results bro please ?

I think i remember him getting like 47-52% SI.

[Avicenna]

Youre steppe is likely partly iran n/bmac.

If you got 7-8%, then afghans/sc asians get like 25-33%, which is a big difference.

Also, i think youre comparing yourself to tribals with even lower iran n. SOme got higher, some get lower.
Anyway, youre mostly aasi/ivc/iran n+aasi combo, so its no wonder why you look so much like them.

But he doesn't look tribal Indian though? Am I missing something ? He actually looks quite light for an Indian .

[Nomansman]

But he doesn't look tribal Indian though? Am I missing something ? He actually looks quite light for an Indian .

You think so? I think by facial feautures he kinds of look like a mowgli type. Maybe we got different pics from him

[Avicenna]

You think so? I think by facial feautures he kinds of look like a mowgli type. Maybe we got different pics from him

He has a short round face , turanid influenced eyes . His skin doesn't seem dark for an Indian too . I don't know tbh , could be just the photos he sent me .

[Nomansman]

He has a short round face , turanid influenced eyes . His skin doesn't seem dark for an Indian too . I don't know tbh , could be just the photos he sent me .

I dont think we should focus too much on his "turanidness" since many indians can have eyes like those. Some examples:


https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws.com%2F88a902e0-2336-11ea-b8a1-584213ee7b2b?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700
https://timesofislamabad.com/digital_images/medium/2018-01-25/thousands-of-hindus-are-converting-to-islam-in-india-government-report-1516822623-6765.jpg
https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/45c70c7/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2F77%2Fd1 bc3e8e4b5d79a1a8ed3e4ffee87e%2Ftag%3Areuters.com%2 C2019%3Anewsml_LYNXMPEFA806N%3A12019-11-09T080011Z_1_LYNXMPEFA806N_RTROPTP_3_INDIA-RELIGION-TEMPLE.JPG

Some of these people seem "turanid" aka slant eyed too.

To me he just looks mowgli type to me(AKA lower caste types)

[Avicenna]

I dont think we should focus too much on his "turanidness" since many indians can have eyes like those. Some examples:


https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws.com%2F88a902e0-2336-11ea-b8a1-584213ee7b2b?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700
https://timesofislamabad.com/digital_images/medium/2018-01-25/thousands-of-hindus-are-converting-to-islam-in-india-government-report-1516822623-6765.jpg
https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/45c70c7/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2F77%2Fd1 bc3e8e4b5d79a1a8ed3e4ffee87e%2Ftag%3Areuters.com%2 C2019%3Anewsml_LYNXMPEFA806N%3A12019-11-09T080011Z_1_LYNXMPEFA806N_RTROPTP_3_INDIA-RELIGION-TEMPLE.JPG

Some of these people seem "turanid" aka slant eyed too.

To me he just looks mowgli type to me(AKA lower caste types)

True, but he looks nothing like the people you posted nor does he look lower case indian . Hes Muslim right ?

[Nomansman]

True, but he looks nothing like the people you posted nor does he look lower case indian . Hes Muslim right ?

He's syed, so obvs hes muslim

[lameduck]

Unless you have actually visited the region itself , I don't think you can make bold statements like that . I'm not kalash nor have I visited that region , so I can't be sure You can look at pics all you want , but you are biased deep down . I can show you videos of kalash and majoirty of them look what they are portrayed as . Maybe not Nordic looking , but certainly a unique aesthetic that is admired by most Pakistanis and south Asians .

They are admired for uniqueness not really looks , also they are just famous for there culture , there are many such groups stretching from North East Afghanistan to Northern Azad Kashmir through gilgit baltistan but none get that attention

Nuristanis , kho, shina, burushus, wakhi, kohistanis , and such unique groups in hushe valley and harmosh valley.

I have been to chitral valley and gilgit balitistan uptill K2 base camp , people are light skinned no doubt about (you can see from imran khans rallies there) , beauty is subjectivee but tbh woman are very average looking but men look good. hottest women are from seriaki belt imo.

[Avicenna]

They are admired for uniqueness not really looks , also they are just famous for there culture , there are many such groups stretching from North East Afghanistan to Northern Azad Kashmir through gilgit baltistan but none get that attention

Nuristanis , kho, shina, burushus, wakhi, kohistanis , and such unique groups in hushe valley and harmosh valley.

I have been to chitral valley and gilgit balitistan uptill K2 base camp , people are light skinned no doubt about (you can see from imran khans rallies there) , beauty is subjectivee but tbh woman are very average looking but men look good. hottest women are from seriaki belt imo.

Everyone has their own taste regarding what they find atttactive so it's pointless to debate that . I just assumed what photographers and tourists would sense when visiting that region . I think the Greek origin as well pagan tradition and religioun had something to do with it too .

[Bandesha]

some of photos are not nomads but professional models , anyhow they look like sindhi nomads that i have seen upon my visit there couple of times , they also like those kolachi nomads in our area and are basically photopcopy of them , i wonder they are same

[Nomansman]

some of photos are not nomads but professional models , anyhow they look like sindhi nomads that i have seen upon my visit there couple of times , they also like those kolachi nomads in our area and are basically photopcopy of them , i wonder they are same

TBH; i kind of wonder the same thing.

Even gujarati nomads have the same kind of colourfull clothes. Even some other afghans noticed it, despite afghan kuchis likely being genetically very different from desi nomads.

But i mean more like through clothing they look similiar, not looks necessarily

[lameduck]

Everyone has their own taste regarding what they find atttactive so it's pointless to debate that . I just assumed what photographers and tourists would sense when visiting that region . I think the Greek origin as well pagan tradition and religioun had something to do with it too .

but lighter types arent exaggerated at all , they do exist in siginificant numbers and increase once you go to high altitude villages(above 10000 feets) , but darker pseudo indid types also exist . almost all anthropologists recorded the occurance of lighter types in the region.


these are two politicians from chitral , they are khos

https://pamirtimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/new-pic.bmp
https://i1.wp.com/www.chitraltoday.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/aftab-3.jpg?resize=210%2C210&ssl=1

[lameduck]

some of photos are not nomads but professional models , anyhow they look like sindhi nomads that i have seen upon my visit there couple of times , they also like those kolachi nomads in our area and are basically photopcopy of them , i wonder they are same

many nomads in balochistan and sindh are also kochis


these are kochis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sulemani/albums/72157704813327835

[Nomansman]

many nomads in balochistan and sindh are also kochis


these are kochis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sulemani/albums/72157704813327835

Many of them have specific looks. They look like their own thing.

Looking at the lighter girls and the darker older women really shows how physically hard kochi life can be,

Wouldnt mind getting married with a kochi woman

[Trouble]

He's syed, so obvs hes muslim

I am not syed and the photos I sent to both were the same though I sent more to him cause he asked. Once I get on PC I’ll post HarappaWorld and show how I model with G25 ancients. But it’ll be later today

[Nomansman]

I am not syed and the photos I sent to both were the same though I sent more to him cause he asked. Once I get on PC I’ll post HarappaWorld and show how I model with G25 ancients. But it’ll be later today

Ok. I must had been talking about dissafection then

[Trouble]

Ok. I must had been talking about dissafection then

It’s me that’s my old account

[Avicenna]

many nomads in balochistan and sindh are also kochis


these are kochis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sulemani/albums/72157704813327835

Very beautiful . These are pashtun nomads who move in between afghanistan and Pakistan border .

[Avicenna]

TBH; i kind of wonder the same thing.

Even gujarati nomads have the same kind of colourfull clothes. Even some other afghans noticed it, despite afghan kuchis likely being genetically very different from desi nomads.

But i mean more like through clothing they look similiar, not looks necessarily

Definitely not looks lol. Among afghans , the kuchi nomad dresses are extremely popular , with it's extravagant colours worn by the women .

[Avicenna]

but lighter types arent exaggerated at all , they do exist in siginificant numbers and increase once you go to high altitude villages(above 10000 feets) , but darker pseudo indid types also exist . almost all anthropologists recorded the occurance of lighter types in the region.


these are two politicians from chitral , they are khos

https://pamirtimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/new-pic.bmp
https://i1.wp.com/www.chitraltoday.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/aftab-3.jpg?resize=210%2C210&ssl=1

I don't even think that many indid type exists in chitral tbh . Looking at photos the darker types are just east iranid albeit a darker variant of it .

[Bandesha]

many nomads in balochistan and sindh are also kochis


these are kochis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sulemani/albums/72157704813327835

my best kulachi friend khanda disagree , lol thy are kulachi balochs and spread all the way from baloch to suth punjab , i see them every week

you are ignorant and dont know diversity of sindhi nomads, kochi mean muhajir/migrant , its a normal title for all type of kuchi.koochis and these look like baloch kulachi specially woman , almost half of sindhi kids have protein deficiency and which result in those hairs

[Avicenna]

my best kulachi friend khanda disagree , lol thy are kulachi balochs and spread all the way from baloch to suth punjab , i see them every week

you are ignorant and dont know diversity of sindhi nomads, kochi mean muhajir/migrant , its a normal title for all type of kuchi.koochis and these look like baloch kulachi specially woman , almost half of sindhi kids have protein deficiency and which result in those hairs

I can't believe those are Sindhis . They look ultra pashtun to me .

[Nomansman]

I can't believe those are Sindhis . They look ultra pashtun to me .

If youre talking about the pics,. they were obvs from suleiman areas, which is around quetta and theyre most likely pashtuns

[Avicenna]

If youre talking about the pics,. they were obvs from suleiman areas, which is around quetta and theyre most likely pashtuns

Yeah those ones . They look so pashtun it's not even funny lol

[Trouble]

many nomads in balochistan and sindh are also kochis


these are kochis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sulemani/albums/72157704813327835

I want to show these photos to the delusional nationalists on Anthrogenica like Sapporo and MDL who say think Poojabis look similar to Pashtuns. They look more like Gujaratis and it’s not even close.

[Avicenna]

I want to show these photos to the delusional nationalists on Anthrogenica like Sapporo and MDL who say think Poojabis look similar to Pashtuns. They look more like Gujaratis and it’s not even close.

Check out my recent threads bro

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315703-Classify-Afghans-in-this-wedding-from-London

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315714-Afghan-women-in-TV-game-show-(-Family-Fortunes-)

Do they honestly believe that lol? I cannot imagine how they could justify it unless they are talking about heavily admixed regions such as Peshawar etc .

[Nomansman]

I want to show these photos to the delusional nationalists on Anthrogenica like Sapporo and MDL who say think Poojabis look similar to Pashtuns. They look more like Gujaratis and it’s not even close.

Well....thats AG for you.

ALthough they might have some intellectual discussions, they also seem rather biased from time to time...

[Avicenna]

Well....thats AG for you.

ALthough they might have some intellectual discussions, they also seem rather biased from time to time...

I have always suspected they have severe complexes deep down . Shogun has interacted with them for a while and he has clocked on to them too . Truth is, punjabis are close to most south Asian pops , which is nothing wrong that . They try to put other groups down whilst promoting their own fantasies .

[lameduck]

I can't believe those are Sindhis . They look ultra pashtun to me .

I think he is saying that flickr pictures are of kolachi balochs , he is not saying , they are sindhis.

[lameduck]

I want to show these photos to the delusional nationalists on Anthrogenica like Sapporo and MDL who say think Poojabis look similar to Pashtuns. They look more like Gujaratis and it’s not even close.

Punjabi, sindhis , pashtuns, balochs , dards etc have differences thats why they are different ethnicities , otherwise they would be same ethnicites , but at higher global level Pakistanis from all groups share an organic bond with each other that shows in their genetics, socioeconomics and geopolitics.

[Nomansman]

I have always suspected they have severe complexes deep down . Shogun has interacted with them for a while and he has clocked on to them too . Truth is, punjabis are close to most south Asian pops , which is nothing wrong that . They try to put other groups down whilst promoting their own fantasies .

Well, tbh nw south asians are as close to afghans though as to avg indians(not talking about nw indians, but all of them put together into a representable indian) and sometimes also as close to pamiris(that goes mostly for jatts though), so i can see why they dont try to make too much connection with most indians either.

But as you say, they have some weird agendas.

[Avicenna]

Well, tbh nw south asians are as close to afghans though as to avg indians(not talking about nw indians, but all of them put together into a representable indian) and sometimes also as close to pamiris(that goes mostly for jatts though), so i can see why they dont try to make too much connection with most indians either.

But as you say, they have some weird agendas.

I don't think that's true tbh . Majoirty of punjabis , jatts etc are quite close to central Indians as well high caste south Indians . If you include appearance , common nationality , culture , environment , history and language then its no doubt they are close to other Indians .

[Nomansman]

I don't think that's true tbh . Majoirty of punjabis , jatts etc are quite close to central Indians as well high caste south Indians . If you include appearance , common nationality , culture , environment , history and language then its no doubt they are close to other Indians .

Im talking about genetics and most nw south asians get on avg 31% SI(lots of 28% SI types and lots of 35% SI types as well), while avg indians(not talking about nw indians) would get around 46% SI(many central indians and south indian brahmins get around 43% SI). AVG afghan(based on all my samples) would get like 16% SI. Although the nw south asian is distant to the avg afghan, hes also distant to avg indian.

But yeah. culture-wise theyre def closer to most/almost all indians.

[lameduck]

Well, tbh nw south asians are as close to afghans though as to avg indians(not talking about nw indians, but all of them put together into a representable indian) and sometimes also as close to pamiris(that goes mostly for jatts though), so i can see why they dont try to make too much connection with most indians either.

But as you say, they have some weird agendas.

punjabis and sindhis have more variations than south central asians , it would be on case by case basis , many pakistanis punjabis are lot closer to their lighter neighbours than to tribals e.g , I mean its so obvious . Also no group is viking , its not like we are comparing apples with oranges.

[Avicenna]

Im talking about genetics and most nw south asians get on avg 31% SI(lots of 28% SI types and lots of 35% SI types as well), while avg indians(not talking about nw indians) would get around 46% SI(many central indians and south indian brahmins get around 43% SI). AVG afghan(based on all my samples) would get like 16% SI. Although the nw south asian is distant to the avg afghan, hes also distant to avg indian.

But yeah. culture-wise theyre def closer to most/almost all indians.

That's only in regards to admixture calculators though . I'm almost certain if you include dstats and fst methods , they would share a more homogeneous connection .

[Nomansman]

That's only in regards to admixture calculators though . I'm almost certain if you include dstats and fst methods , they would share a more homogeneous connection .

Im not sure about that. I wouldnt trust too much on kurd's d-stat results, because he himself doesnt seem too interested in those anymore.

And apart from him, i havent honestly seen any other people who done dna analyse on south asians and sc asians having other opinions like kurd.

[Avicenna]

Im not sure about that. I wouldnt trust too much on kurd's d-stat results, because he himself doesnt seem too interested in those anymore.

And apart from him, i havent honestly seen any other people who done dna analyse on south asians and sc asians having other opinions like kurd.

Why are you bringing up Kurd man? I'm talking about the methods itself . There is not only one type of method you know but many other forms . Research on fst and dstats I suggest .

[Nomansman]

Bump(go to OP post)

[Negah]

many nomads in balochistan and sindh are also kochis


these are kochis

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sulemani/albums/72157704813327835

do Kochis represent a unified linguistic group?

[Negah]

I want to show these photos to the delusional nationalists on Anthrogenica like Sapporo and MDL who say think Poojabis look similar to Pashtuns. They look more like Gujaratis and it’s not even close.

there is some overlap, I mean there are some similarities. I would find it hard to believe there is none. I have seen some pretty dark Pashtuns in IRL here in California obviously they are not as dark as Punjabis or as South Asian looking. But I feel there is some overlap. However, I agree even most lighter Punajbis have this south Asian look about them. Most cannot pass outside their ethnicity.

[Negah]

Bump(go to OP post)

can post some historical fact about them

[Negah]

Bump(go to OP post)

can you post some historical facts about them?

[Nomansman]

can post some historical facts about them?

BTW in Iran, we use the word Kochi for our gypsies who tend to be pretty dark-skinned.

Well, theyre just the last pashtun nomads apparetly. Frankly i dont have much info about them, but i might come up with some from some afghans i know.
You can just read about them on wiki

[Trouble]

Punjabi, sindhis , pashtuns, balochs , dards etc have differences thats why they are different ethnicities , otherwise they would be same ethnicites , but at higher global level Pakistanis from all groups share an organic bond with each other that shows in their genetics, socioeconomics and geopolitics.

Yes there is some affinity between the groups on a genetic basis but they don't really "overlap". The general upper limit for Pashtuns is 22% SI on HW and is generally closer to 18-20% especially for Afghans while for Punjabi upper castes their low end is around 26% SI but they're typically closer to 30-31%. The lower castes can go up to over 60+% SI.

The phenotypic contrast is more stark, however. There is overlap but then again many Pakistanis can look very west asian and vice versa so it's not just with Pashtuns. Still going through KPK there is a rapid change away from more Indic phenotypes to Iranid ones. Anyone denying this is deluded.

As for the indian punjabis, they don't overlap with Pashtuns at all. They have a tendency to look more "Indic" but also their exotic types look more like the products of half white half indian marriages. Nikki Haley is an example.

[Avicenna]

Yes there is some affinity between the groups on a genetic basis but they don't really "overlap". The general upper limit for Pashtuns is 22% SI on HW and is generally closer to 18-20% especially for Afghans while for Punjabi upper castes their low end is around 26% SI but they're typically closer to 30-31%. The lower castes can go up to over 60+% SI.

The phenotypic contrast is more stark, however. There is overlap but then again many Pakistanis can look very west asian and vice versa so it's not just with Pashtuns. Still going through KPK there is a rapid change away from more Indic phenotypes to Iranid ones. Anyone denying this is deluded.

As for the indian punjabis, they don't overlap with Pashtuns at all. They have a tendency to look more "Indic" but also their exotic types look more like the products of half white half indian marriages. Nikki Haley is an example.

Yeah spot on . I recently watched a video of a man walking through Amritsar and literally everyone was very dark skinned and could pass easily in southern India . I will post it if I find it . There is definitely some overlap between Pak punjabis ( gujjars , kohostanis etc ) with pashtuns, especially ones from Pakistan ( swat , Peshawar , swabi ).