Where does Ottoman Empire start

[Cumansky]

Any opinion?

95615

[Bosniensis]

Constantinople was Ottoman Empire.

All other cities and regions were subjugated to that city.

[Ion Basescul]

Vienna

[Kayra]

https://www.ilimiz.net/haritalar/bilecik-min.png

[pulstar]

Right next to my recliner

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/fdn-images-2/img/products%2Fsmith_brothers%2Fcolor%2F988_988%20ot%2 0ch-b.jpg

[Cumansky]

Constantinople was Ottoman Empire.

All other cities and regions were subjugated to that city.

Constantinople was Byzantine before anything, but where does Ottoman Empire start, after all those centuries it can drawn on a map

[Cumansky]

Vlad not looking for smartass answers, I want real discussion on my history

[Cumansky]

Vienna

In the Northwest, that's what I put, Vienna is soft I agree Vienna is Ottoman stronghold

[Cumansky]

Constantinople was Ottoman Empire.

All other cities and regions were subjugated to that city.

Your city, not mine

Lmao

[Epirus DNA]

Mongolia.
Ottoman Empire = Mongolian Diaspora.

[Bosniensis]

Constantinople was Byzantine before anything, but where does Ottoman Empire start, after all those centuries it can drawn on a map

and Ottomans were Byzantines before conversion to Islam.

[Cumansky]

and Ottomans were Byzantines before conversion to Islam.

I think most of them were Balkaners, but some were Oghuz conquerors from Asia that passed thru Azerbaijan, etc

[tipirneni]

https://www.atlastours.net/iraq/ctesiphon.jpg
Ctesiphon

[Bosniensis]

I think most of them were Balkaners, but some were Oghuz conquerors from Asia that passed thru Azerbaijan, etc

George of Trebizond explained the best:

He addressed the new ruler of the Empire, Mehmed the Conqueror, in a letter of 1466, as the legal emperor of the Romans and of the whole Universe and also as the common emperor of both Romans and Turks.

Dimitri Kitsikis, from the time of the Persian Empire and Alexander the Great, to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the 20th century A.D., the Intermediate Region has been covered by an ecumenical empire that had common civilizational characteristics, despite the fact that it passed into the hands successively of the Persians, to the Greeks, to the Romans, to the Byzantines and, finally, to the Ottomans. This central civilization of the Intermediate Region, existing since the time of Cyrus the Great, bore the characteristics, since the 11th century A.D. and for the last thousand years, of Greek and Turkish cultures.


Basically, Turks became a new addition to already established mix of: Balkaners, Greeks, Armenians, Syrians and Anatolian Persians.

But the Empire.. was the same old Empire as George identified.

Claiming that Ottoman Empire isn't Byzantine Empire is like claiming that modern Iranians aren't Persians because they are muslims and don't use Old Persian language.

[Negah]

and Ottomans were Byzantines before conversion to Islam.

I tend to agree with this. The original Turks were central Asian but Ottoman Empire was the resurrection of the Byzantine empire just like Safavid empire was the resurrection of the sassanid empire

[pulstar]

Vlad not looking for smartass answers, I want real discussion on my history

Ok Kuba, then I guess it both starts and ends in Turkey, maaaaybe a bit more to the Middle East.

[Cumansky]

Basically, Turks became a new addition to already established mix of: Balkaners, Greeks, Armenians, Syrians and Anatolian Persians.

But the Empire.. was the same old Empire as George identified.

This is what happened in my land:

The Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin was a series of events resulting in the settlement of the Hungarians at the turn of the 9th and 10th centuries. Before the arrival of the Hungarian Conquerors (or Proto-Hungarians), three medieval powers were fighting for control of the Carpathian Basin - the First Bulgarian Empire, East Francia and Moravia. Occasionally they would hire Proto-Hungarian horsemen as soldiers. These people who lived on the Pontic Steppes became familiar with their future homeland as a result. After they were attacked by the Bulgarians and Pechengs in 894, the Proto-Hungarians crossed the Carpathian Mountains and took over the lowlands east of the Danube, and then went into Pannonia. Then by defeating a Bavarian army in 907, they launched a series of plundering raids. Gradually they began settling in the Basin and established a monarchy, the Kingdom of Hungary in 1000 AD and ruled over the existing peoples of the region at this time including Slavs, Greeks, Germans, Moravians and Vlachs."

[Bosniensis]

This is what happened in my land:

The Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin was a series of events resulting in the settlement of the Hungarians at the turn of the 9th and 10th centuries. Before the arrival of the Hungarian Conquerors (or Proto-Hungarians), three medieval powers were fighting for control of the Carpathian Basin - the First Bulgarian Empire, East Francia and Moravia. Occasionally they would hire Proto-Hungarian horsemen as soldiers. These people who lived on the Pontic Steppes became familiar with their future homeland as a result. After they were attacked by the Bulgarians and Pechengs in 894, the Proto-Hungarians crossed the Carpathian Mountains and took over the lowlands east of the Danube, and then went into Pannonia. Then by defeating a Bavarian army in 907, they launched a series of plundering raids. Gradually they began settling in the Basin and established a monarchy, the Kingdom of Hungary in 1000 AD and ruled over the existing peoples of the region at this time including Slavs, Greeks, Germans, Moravians and Vlachs."


Hungary is very complex.. it was under direct hit of so many enemies it's terrifying. From Attila onward.

[Cumansky]

George of Trebizond explained the best:

He addressed the new ruler of the Empire, Mehmed the Conqueror, in a letter of 1466, as the legal emperor of the Romans and of the whole Universe and also as the common emperor of both Romans and Turks.

Dimitri Kitsikis, from the time of the Persian Empire and Alexander the Great, to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the 20th century A.D., the Intermediate Region has been covered by an ecumenical empire that had common civilizational characteristics, despite the fact that it passed into the hands successively of the Persians, to the Greeks, to the Romans, to the Byzantines and, finally, to the Ottomans. This central civilization of the Intermediate Region, existing since the time of Cyrus the Great, bore the characteristics, since the 11th century A.D. and for the last thousand years, of Greek and Turkish cultures.


Basically, Turks became a new addition to already established mix of: Balkaners, Greeks, Armenians, Syrians and Anatolian Persians.

But the Empire.. was the same old Empire as George identified.

Claiming that Ottoman Empire isn't Byzantine Empire is like claiming that modern Iranians aren't Persians because they are muslims and don't use Old Persian language.

So was there Romani people in the Byzantine Empire?

Why do modern Romani show up as Byzantine?

[Cumansky]

Hungary is very complex.. it was under direct hit of so many enemies it's terrifying. From Attila onward.

There is alot of back migrations into Balkans that happened after Byzantine era too, I am part of that migration in the south

[Bosniensis]

So was there Romani people in the Byzantine Empire?

Why do modern Romani show up as Byzantine?

It's simple.

Not all Romani are Romani.

Some Romani are "romani" because their mother is Romani, and father being... Southern European for example.

Mortimer is Romani, but not through paternal line so he shows as "Byzantine" i.e. Serb + something.

Romani are Indian people who roamed through entire Europe, they had no properties etc...

They were present in late Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) if we are talking about Christian Empire.

[tipirneni]

So was there Romani people in the Byzantine Empire?

Why do modern Romani show up as Byzantine?

There were Indian trading colonies in Mesopotamia, Syria, Armenia etc.. You still see some mtDNA & ydna evidence there. Later Romani migration probably used some of those places on the way

[Cumansky]

It's simple.

Not all Romani are Romani.

Some Romani are "romani" because their mother is Romani, and father being... Southern European for example.

Mortimer is Romani, but not through paternal line so he shows as "Byzantine" i.e. Serb + something.

Romani are Indian people who roamed through entire Europe, they had no properties etc...

They were present in late Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) if we are talking about Christian Empire.

But Romani mixed those "Southern Europeans" ;) in what era Ottoman or they were already mixing in Byzantine era

They are known as Ashkali in the Balkans..

[Cumansky]

There were Indian trading colonies in Mesopotamia, Syria, Armenia etc.. You still see some mtDNA & ydna evidence there. Later Romani migration probably used some of those places on the way

I heard in East Africa too, Pemba people or no?

[Bosniensis]

But Romani mixed those "Southern Europeans" ;) in what era Ottoman or they were already mixing in Byzantine era

They are known as Ashkali in the Balkans..

I don't know, their history is very poorly documented, they are nomads and have no history unfortunately.

Beautiful Romani girl could steal the heart of any man, they are not lesser than we are, just nomads from India.

[Cumansky]

I don't know, their history is very poorly documented, they are nomads and have no history unfortunately.

Beautiful Romani girl could steal the heart of any man, they are not lesser than we are, just nomads from India.

I don't think their history is poor, even if less documented..

[tipirneni]

I heard in East Africa too, Pemba people or no?

East Africa there is no Indian influence. It might be other way round.

But Egypt has India like F1 clades, which might have been the ones from India or the old Europe ones