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Loki
08-14-2011, 05:29 PM
Macedonia statue: Alexander the Great or a warrior on a horse? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/14/alexander-great-macedonia-warrior-horse)

Lookalike statue reignites debate with Greece over Macedonian name as Skopje locals dismiss works as nationalistic kitsch

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/8/11/1313077831973/Alexander-the-Great-statu-007.jpg

In a move that has upset the Greeks, Alexander the Great has suddenly made a huge comeback in Macedonia.

A giant statue bearing an uncanny resemblance to the warrior king – although, officially, no one dares call it that – has been erected in the heart of Skopje, Macedonia's capital. Seated upon his favourite steed, the classical hero surveys the capital from the vantage point of Plostad Makedonija, Skopje's central square. At 22 metres, or eight storeys high, the statue dwarfs its surroundings.

But, then, that is the idea.

Amid great clouds of dust, giant bulldozers perpetually gnaw at the ground as the former Yugoslav republic undergoes one of Europe's biggest urban renewal schemes.

And it all takes place against the backdrop of a 20-year-long dispute with Greece (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/oct/16/inthenameofharmony), its southern neighbour, over the right to use the name Macedonia.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/GUARDIAN/Pix/pictures/2011/6/27/1309183841834/Alexander-the-Great-Statu-007.jpg

The sculpture (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/27/macedonia-alexander-great-greece-discord), part of a building bonanza that has also erected gothic edifices, grandiose bridges and a triumphal arch, has been billed as the project's crowning glory.

For the overtly nationalist government in Skopje, the overhaul is more eloquent than any other propaganda tool in its long battle with Greece over the country's name, and the right to claim Alexander as a national hero.

With Greece in economic crisis, it couldn't come at a better time.

"This is our way of saying [up yours] to them," Antonio Milososki, the state's former foreign minister, told the Guardian in a recent interview.

"Alexander the Great, in fact, had no passport or birth certificate," he said, sitting in the foyer of a government building brimming with relics dating back to the warrior king. "This project is about asserting Macedonia's identity at a time when it is under threat because of the name issue. We all live in a geographic area where we share a common past but our attitude towards history is inclusive. The Greeks' is exclusive."

Greece has long held that the desire of their Slav neighbours to call themselves Macedonian conceals territorial ambitions over its own adjacent province of Macedonia.

Since the landlocked country's proclamation of independence in 1991, Alexander the Great has been at the centre of the controversy. The statue is the former Yugoslav republic's biggest claim yet to his legacy, though in recent years Skopje has also named its airport, highway and main stadium after him.

Re-elected this year as prime minister, Nikola Gruevski, a hardline nationalist who started out as a bank clerk before turning to politics, has pursued the building programme with gusto, ordering a new archaeological museum, national theatre, philharmonic hall and scores of rococo building facades and sculptures to be erected at record speed. A statue of Alexander's father, Philip of Macedon, is, at 28 metres, expected to be even taller than that of the warrior king. But the administration has been hesitant about releasing costs for the project, conservatively estimated at more than €200m.

Most people, according to polls, regard the campaign as overly kitsch, even if some also think it brings a little joy to the dullness imposed on the capital by communist apparatchiks after Skopje was levelled by an earthquake in 1953.

"The intention, they say, is to make Skopje look like Paris," says Danica Pavlovska, who heads Macedonia's Association of Architects. "But the scale of the project for a city this size is all wrong and frankly the pace is frightening."

With unemployment nudging 35%, and at least a third of the population living below the poverty line, the scheme has provoked violent protests and grassroots opposition.

"I don't think it's the time for statues. People need to eat, work and live," says Minira Krivaneva, an ethnic Albanian emerging from her home in the central district of Duqanxhik. "None of the people in my family works and often there is no money to pay the bills. We are 14 people and our only means of survival is the €30 we get from social security every month."

For public intellectuals, who have become increasingly incensed that their capital is being turned into a mini Las Vegas, the scheme is the embodiment of "retarded nationalism" by a conservative government bent as much on giving the metropolis a facelift as changing the course of the nation's history.

"It is not only kitsch, it smacks of social engineering," says Sasho Ordanoski, a prominent political analyst. "What we are seeing is a typically populist regime building a nationalist superstate. By trying to reform our ethnic identity, to say we are not Slavs but hark back to an older age, they have resorted to a process of antiquitisation."

Petar Arsovski, another commentator, said: "We never grew up hearing about the feats of Alexander the Great. If there was any mention of him, it was very obscure. Gruevski is turning this city into a theme park, a place that looks a bit more like Las Vegas every day."

But across town, in the communist-era headquarters of the Macedonian Academy of Arts and Sciences, Professor Blaze Ristovski begs to differ. The silver-haired academician has spent a lifetime studying the history of his beloved country and for him the statue-building amounts to a "very useful" exercise.

"We are a young state and prior to 1944 when the communists took over, we simply couldn't build anything other than churches and mosques," he says. "Only with the creation of our own country were we at liberty to present our past and culture and show our struggle for Macedonian statehood. These monuments don't just fill a gap, they are a very useful way of presenting ourselves as a nation.

"We might be Slavs and our language Slavonic but since ancient times we have inhabited these lands."

Internationally, the mini-state is still forced to call itself the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia – the title it was given by the UN shortly after independence – even if 120 countries have recognised it as the Republic of Macedonia, its constitutional name. Greeks refer to their neighbour as Fyrom, with its citizens more often than not being called Skopjians, though there are signs that it is shifting its stance.

"Greece has moved a lot on this matter," said Stavros Lambrinidis, the Greek foreign minister. "We have made it clear that we are willing to accept a compromise, a compromise that does not offend or insult anyone by agreeing to mixed name with a geographic delineation ... All this story with the statues is not useful."

Recently, the Gruevski government stopped referring to the great statue in Plostad Makedonija as Alexander the Great, preferring instead to call it a "warrior on a horse".

A breakthrough, say optimists, could be in store. What is certain is that the Greeks are watching – closely.

Adrian
08-14-2011, 06:29 PM
I know I sound nationalist in this forum but i prefere always to tell the truth.

Today macedonians are not the same people with ancient macedonians. Today macedonians are mixture between bulgars, serbs and some slavicised albanians. God knows where do thay see connection with ancient Alexander the Great!!!

Alexanders mother (Olympia) was Illyrian, Alexanders father was Philip, king of old and powerfull macedonian tribe.

Today macedonians have serious problem with thair identity. Thay have religion problems with church of Serbia, territorial problems with autokton albanians and problem with using name 'macedonia' with greeks.

Äike
08-15-2011, 04:45 PM
With unemployment nudging 35%, and at least a third of the population living below the poverty line, the scheme has provoked violent protests and grassroots opposition.

Now this is shocking. :eek:

I remember that I was banned from some forum, for saying(in a thread dedicated to this statue) that the FYROMans aren't related to the ancient Macedonians. The Greek people are ethnically, culturally and probably linguistically more similar to the ancient Macedonians than the current "Macedonians". What relates the people of FYROM with the ancient Macedonians is that they live in the land that was inhabited by the Macedonians.

Turkophagos
08-15-2011, 05:04 PM
Alexanders mother (Olympia) was Illyrian


http://rob.nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/facepalm11.jpg


Olympias (Greek: Ὀλυμπιάς, pronounced [olympiás], ca. 375–316 BC[1]) was a Greek princess of Epirus, daughter of king Neoptolemus I of Epirus, the fourth wife of the king of Macedonia, Philip II, and mother of Alexander the Great.

...

Olympias was the daughter of Neoptolemus I, king of the Molossians, a principal Greek tribe in Epirus, and sister of Alexander I. Her family was member of the Aeacidae, a well-respected family of ancient Greece, which claimed descent from Neoptolemus, son of Achilles. Apparently, she was originally named Polyxena, as Plutarch mentions in his work Moralia, and changed her name to Myrtale prior to her marriage to Philip II of Macedon, as part of her initiation to an unknown mystery cult.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympias



The Molossians (Greek: Μολοσσοί, Molossoi) were an ancient Greek tribe that inhabited the region of Epirus since the Mycenaean era.[1] On their northeast frontier they had the Chaonians and to their southern frontier the kingdom of the Thesprotians, to their north were the Illyrians. The Molossians were part of the League of Epirus until they sided against Rome in the Third Macedonian War (171 BC-168 BC).

...

Strabo tells us that the Molossians, along with the Chaonians and Thesprotians, were the most famous among the fourteen tribes of Epirus, who once ruled over the whole region. The Chaonians ruled Epirus at an earlier time and afterwards the Thesprotians and Molossians controlled the region. Plutarch[3] tells us that the Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians were the three principal clusters of Greek-speaking tribes that had emerged from Epirus and were the most powerful among all other tribes. Strabo records that the Thesprotians, Molossians, and Macedonians referred to old men as πελιοί pelioi and old women as πελιαί peliai (<PIE *pel-, 'grey'). Cf. Ancient Greek πέλεια peleia, "pigeon", so-called because of its dusky grey color. Ancient Greek πελός pelos meant "grey".[4] Their senators were called Peligones, similar to Macedonian Peliganes.

...

The most famed member of the Molossian dynasty was Pyrrhus, who became famous for his Pyrrhic victory over the Romans. According to Plutarch, Pyrrhus was the son of Aeacides of Epirus and a Greek woman from Thessaly named Phthia, the daughter of a war hero in the Lamian War. Pyrrhus was a second cousin of Alexander the Great.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molossians