r1a and semitic groups

[mashail]

so if there is an arab or jewish with r1a dna will they considered to be semitic? or indo european?
since J ydna is native to arabs and jewish.

[Kyp]

YDNA doesn't determine ethnicity

[Jana]

Original semitic haplogroup is E1b.

[Dick]

R1 is an iffy question in general I believe. There was two R1b found in present day Romania from early farmers,possibly via Anatolia since downstream on the yfull tree you have R1b subclades from Saudi Arabia and even Africa(Chad)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V2219/

The million dollar question is were they “indo-European” speakers?


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5483232/

[Leto]

J1 is Semitic. However, no major ethnic group has only one haplogroup. R1a-Z93 has been present in the Near East for hundreds upon hundreds of years.

[Slavic Italian]

YDNA doesn't determine ethnicity

It does to an extent.

[mashail]

Original semitic haplogroup is E1b.
E1b is native to north africa and had an ancient present in levant.
modern GCC they score more than 88% J1 , the minority is j2 and G and E1b.

[Jana]

E1b is native to north africa and had an ancient present in levant.
modern GCC they score more than 88% J1 , the minority is j2 and G and E1b.

J1 and J2 have Caucasus/CHG origin. G2a is Anatolian neolithic.

[Kyp]

I think your R1a could stem from the Mitanni people of Mesopotamia.

[mashail]

I think your R1a could stem from the Mitanni people of Mesopotamia.

yeah it's kinda odd to have r1a origin in Mesopotamia since south Iraq are from J1 and north Iraq Kurdistan J2.
I never heard about this ppl that u mentioned but who knows u might be right!

[tipirneni]

Strange but there are some H1a people among Semitic people in Middle East & Levant probably from Chalcolithic age trade networks to the Indus Valley

[Kyp]

yeah it's kinda odd to have r1a origin in Mesopotamia since south Iraq are from J1 and north Iraq Kurdistan J2.
I never heard about this ppl that u mentioned but who knows u might be right!

North Iraq would have a good amount of R1a or am I wrong? I think Kurds have around 10%. If you have Kurdish background it's actually not surprising to have R1a. In that case the Medes would be the most likely source for your ydna.

[gixajo]

yeah it's kinda odd to have r1a origin in Mesopotamia since south Iraq are from J1 and north Iraq Kurdistan J2.
I never heard about this ppl that u mentioned but who knows u might be right!

Where did you get your haplotypes?

I mean, with which company.

You got only a unespecified r1a?

I´am also r1a, from Spain, it´s suposed only 1,5% of total population has it here.

[mashail]

North Iraq would have a good amount of R1a or am I wrong? I think Kurds have around 10%. If you have Kurdish background it's actually not surprising to have R1a. In that case the Medes would be the most likely source for your ydna.
The main ydna in north Iraq is always J2 but true some Kurdish have r1a ydna I would say maybe around 5%-10%.

[mashail]

Where did you get your haplotypes?

I mean, with which company.

You got only a unespecified r1a?

I´am also r1a, from Spain, it´s suposed only 1,5% of total population has it here.
mine it didn't show me my ydna since I am a girl, but me and my brother we did the test and he got r1a and it was in FTDNA company.
my mtDNA haplogroup is T1!

[Pine]

J1 is Semitic. However, no major ethnic group has only one haplogroup. R1a-Z93 has been present in the Near East for hundreds upon hundreds of years.

Thousands*. It's Middle Eastern, period. The real exception is when Europeans are found with R-Z93.

[Pine]

What's your background? Which R1a subclade do you have?

[Pine]

Muh Aryan Indo-Europeans: https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y2632/

[gixajo]

mine it didn't show me my ydna since I am a girl, but me and my brother we did the test and he got r1a and it was in FTDNA company.
my mtDNA haplogroup is T1!

Sorry, I didn´t see you were a girl, I never watch gender.

[Pine]

Original semitic haplogroup is E1b.

It predates Semitic languages. Other haplos were present among early Semitic speakers.

[Pine]

You're all retarded. Most major halpogroup was present among the first Semitic speakers. Subclades matter here.

[gixajo]

mine it didn't show me my ydna since I am a girl, but me and my brother we did the test and he got r1a and it was in FTDNA company.
my mtDNA haplogroup is T1!

But your brother only get r1a? Not more specific?

Even the Morley calculator gives a little more .

[mashail]

What's your background? Which R1a subclade do you have?
R-M173 > R-BY126933.
I am northern Iraqi half Kurdish half Arab.
According to ftdna I also have a good amount of Sephardic Jewish ancestry and small European and Berber ancestry as well.

[mashail]

But your brother only get r1a? Not more specific?

Even the Morley calculator gives a little more .
it was this one> R-BY126933

[Pine]

R-M173 > R-BY126933.
I am northern Iraqi half Kurdish half Arab.
According to ftdna I also have a good amount of Sephardic Jewish ancestry and small European and Berber ancestry as well.

FTDNA isn't that reliable. Highly unlikely that you're part Sephardi - maybe you have distant Mizrachi, but it would take more to confirm it. Berber is also very unlikely.

[mashail]

FTDNA isn't that reliable. Highly unlikely that you're part Sephardi - maybe you have distant Mizrachi, but it would take more to confirm it. Berber is also very unlikely.
tbh idk alot about these things especially when it comes to dna etc!
but in ftdna a lot of my 3rd and 4th cousins were actually Jewish and one of them was Mizrahi they were all spainders and one Iraqi.
and my Berber ancestry is a weird story since Iraq has nothing to do with morocco.

[Pine]

tbh idk alot about these things especially when it comes to dna etc!
but in ftdna a lot of my 3rd and 4th cousins were actually Jewish and one of them was Mizrahi they were all spainders and one Iraqi

This certainly changes things.

[Pine]

it was this one> R-BY126933

Not surprising, it's subclade of R-Z93. Is your patrilineal side Kurdish or Arab?

[gixajo]

it was this one> R-BY126933

That´s what I wanted to know.

https://i.postimg.cc/1XWPY37f/r1-yb1269.png (https://postimg.cc/JHB9sMLL)keyboard test software online (https://keyboardtester.co/)

https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?chromosome=Y&snp=BY126933

[mashail]

Not surprising, it's subclade of R-Z93. Is your patrilineal side Kurdish or Arab?
my dad is Kurdish but it's kinda funny cause he always says we are descendants from prophet Mohammed and Abraham so idk if he's trying to claim that he's originally semitic not indo european lol

[Pine]

my dad is Kurdish but it's kinda funny cause he always says we are descendants from prophet Mohammed and Abraham so idk if he's trying to claim that he's originally semitic not indo european lol

You could be a troll, but the subclade you belong to looks Ashkenazi(unconfirmed).

[mashail]

You could be a troll, but the subclade you belong to looks Ashkenazi(unconfirmed).
why would I be a troll? is it because I said the truth? well, I am not trolling!

[gixajo]

Philogenetic family parents/childrens of by126933

https://i.postimg.cc/V6vc08kw/rby12.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rdBH774Z)

[Pine]

You could be a troll, but the subclade you belong to looks Ashkenazi(unconfirmed).

Less likely to be Ashkenazi based on what I'm seeing now. Are you sure your patrilineal ancestor wasn't Circassian?

[mashail]

You could be a troll, but the subclade you belong to looks Ashkenazi(unconfirmed).


my dad is obviously Kurd but most Muslims in the world claim to be from Mohammed tribe in Iran in Iraq in Pakistan even in Indonesia but in the end, they might be wrong!

[mashail]

Less likely to be Ashkenazi based on what I'm seeing now. Are you sure your patrilineal ancestor wasn't Circassian?

what ik for sure that both my parents are from north Iraq if there is something else it might be very ancient

[Pine]

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY30762/

When I see this pattern (Pale of Settlement countries with West Asians), it's usually Ashkenazi and TMRCA date goes in line with most Ashkenazi clades. However, I can't find a record of Jews belonging to it, and I think I found the Ukrainian dude (his name is certainly goyish, though that happens with descendants of ex-Jews). It's unlikely that you're that closely related to those 2 with East Euro flags, so either the common ancestor estimate is really off, or all of you descend from some Circassian, or this gets really interesting. Your Jewish cousin matches might have something to do with this clade.

[mashail]

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY30762/

When I see this pattern (Pale of Settlement countries with West Asians), it's usually Ashkenazi and TMRCA date goes in line with most Ashkenazi clades. However, I can't find a record of Jews belonging to it, and I think I found the Ukrainian dude (his name is certainly goyish, though that happens with descendants of ex-Jews). It's unlikely that you're that closely related to those 2 with East Euro flags, so either the common ancestor estimate is really off, or all of you descend from some Circassian, or this gets really interesting. Your Jewish cousin matches might have something to do with this clade.
Genetics is so weird and idk about my ancient ancestors since i only know that my parents from north iraq who knows i might have jewish ancestry or Circassian but it has to be ancient
and i am only 4% from the balkan the rest is middle east and spanish jewish.

[Pine]

Genetics is so weird and idk about my ancient ancestors since i only know that my parents from north iraq who knows i might have jewish ancestry or Circassian but it has to be ancient
and i am only 4% from the balkan the rest is middle east and spanish jewish.

I don't care so much about what FTDNA assigned you for ethnicity. How close are your closest Jewish matches? (those who identify as Jews, don't just have Jewish in their ethnicity breakdown) What kinda Jews are they?

[Daos777]

Original semitic haplogroup is E1b.

E is Hamitic not Semitic. The afro-asiatic family label is retarded because Berber language is not in any way similar to Arabic or Aramaic.

[mashail]

I don't care so much about what FTDNA assigned you for ethnicity. How close are your closest Jewish matches? (those who identify as Jews, don't just have Jewish in their ethnicity breakdown) What kinda Jews are they?
they were all my 3rd and 4th and 5th cousins and most of them were spanish(sphardic) and one was mizrahi from Iraq.

[Pine]

they were all my 3rd and 4th cousins and most of them were spanish(sphardic) and one was mizrahi from Iraq.

You spoke to them?

[mashail]

You spoke to them?

Not really.

[Pine]

Not really.

How do you know what they are then?

[Leto]

my dad is obviously Kurd but most Muslims in the world claim to be from Mohammed tribe in Iran in Iraq in Pakistan even in Indonesia but in the end, they might be wrong!
I remember seeing your Gedmatch results and they looked full-on Peninsular Arab, not Kurdish at all.

[mashail]

How do you know what they are then?
from their profile I saw their information

[Pine]

Anyway, the simplest explanation here is that the clade's MRCA date is off and that your addition might help push it back.

[Pine]

from their profile I saw their information

Never seen anyone state their ethnicity on FTDNA.

[mashail]

I remember seeing your Gedmatch results and they looked full-on Peninsular Arab, not Kurdish at all.
true gedmatch results were middle east but my ydna is r1a and i got 3rd and 4th jewish cousins !

[Leto]

true gedmatch results were middle east but my ydna is r1a and i got 3rd and 4th jewish cousins !
You're cool, Masha. Masha is a Russian name :D

[mashail]

Never seen anyone state their ethnicity on FTDNA.
look
this is my 5th cousin
https://j.top4top.io/p_1511nhwol1.png

[mashail]

You're cool, Masha. Masha is a Russian name :D
lol

[Pine]

look
this is my 5th cousin
https://j.top4top.io/p_1511nhwol1.png

It's a surname.

[mashail]

It's a surname.
he's name was Jewish! yeah, his surname was Jewish as well.

[Leto]

Do you still have Gedmatch? Care to post your HarappaWorld? Lately I've been "obsessed" with that calculator which is about as old as the universe, lol.

[Pine]

he's name was Jewish! yeah, his surname was Jewish as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1-05t23Kxo

[mashail]

Never seen anyone state their ethnicity on FTDNA.
look at this pic
https://d.top4top.io/p_1511pjjgx1.png

[mashail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1-05t23Kxo
lol ik few Hebrew not that much so i didn't understand what was written
like shalom meh ata? ani mashail
bi kam atah? ani 24
ani sham mashail

[Pine]

look at this pic
https://d.top4top.io/p_1511pjjgx1.png

Yemenite Jews are heavily admixed with locals. Unless their admixture with them is "recent" (haven't checked), then you have Jewish ancestry.

[mashail]

Yemenite Jews are heavily admixed with locals. Unless their admixture with them is "recent" (haven't checked), then you have Jewish ancestry.
yeah, that's true! but I am not sure if he's Iraqi or Yemeni or both. indeed I do have Jewish ancestry on me !!!

[Zoro]

The main ydna in north Iraq is always J2 but true some Kurdish have r1a ydna I would say maybe around 5%-10%.

You are correct about J2a being the dominant ydna for Kurds, but you are quite off about the frequency of R1a for Kurds. All the scientific studies I'm aware of show Kurds as one of the highest R1a groups between Lebanon and Pakistan.


The Grugni et al (2012) study on Iranian groups showed Iranian Kurds at 20% R1a. The Hennerbichler (2012) study showed Zaza Kurds from Turkey at 26% R1a1-M17 plus another 11% R1-M173.

Finally, the Dogan et al 2017 study on Iraqi ethnic groups had Kurds at 17% R1a.

https://i.imgur.com/qyG7iG1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZQFbGLQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SliTnNI.jpg