View Full Version : 'Don't mess with the red star or Russia's national anthem'
Hilding
03-21-2009, 02:08 PM
http://www.thelocal.se/articleImages/18336.jpg
Tingeling tingeling - It’s the song all of Sweden is singing. But laughing at Russia’s national anthem and emotionally charged symbols is just not funny, writes Sweden-based translator Anna Titova.
The song ’Tingeling’, performed during the interval of the Melodifestivalen final on Saturday, was of course just a joke and Sveriges Television (SVT) had no intention of upsetting anybody. But the question that needs to be asked is: what was SVT’s intention? This so-called “humourous song” certainly wasn’t funny. At best, it displayed a very bad sense of humour.
I’m not going to bring up stereotypes such as Matryoshka dolls, Cossacks and dancing bears. We Russian have already become accustomed to these and no longer really care since they just bear witness to Swedes’ lack of knowledge or interest when it comes to another country. There is no sign of any development when it comes to these stereotypes. Time passes, people and countries change, but Swedes are stuck with an outdated image of the world and are incredibly pleased with themselves.
But that’s not what has aggravated the Russian embassy or Russians who watched the performance on SVT. During the sketch, the Russian national anthem is played and the red star is placed on the backsides of tackily dressed dancers. SVT’s communications manager Helga Baagøe said SVT gives its full backing to the sketch and does not see any reason at all to apologise despite the Russian reaction.
I can actually understand why Saturday night’s events on the Globen stage seem completely unproblematic in Sweden. It’s hard to expect anybody in a country that “missed” the Second World War to understand the importance of the symbols.
So allow me to explain: The red star is an incredibly important symbol for every Russian. It stands for victory over fascism. At least ten million Russians sacrificed their lives in the fight against fascism under the red star flag. It is saddening to say the least to see this symbol used as it is in the Swedish context.
SVT also uses the Russian national anthem in the sketch. As far as I’m aware, national anthems are considered national symbols that ought to be respected. It’s no coincidence that people stand to attention when listening to a national anthem, as even every school child will be able to tell you.
It shouldn’t have been too hard to imagine that this might not strike all viewers as appropriate. And people who work for SVT, Sweden’s largest television broadcaster, should at least be educated enough to recognize certain nuances. At least I’d like to think so.
All the Russian people I know were entirely baffled by the SVT sketch. The production team at SVT needs to realize that it’s not a good idea to use symbols considered very important in another country just to satisfy an audience’s vulgar expectations.
Russian national Anna Titova is a Stockholm-based student and part-time translator who has lived in Sweden for the past two years.
http://www.thelocal.se/18336/20090319/
And here's that HORRIBLE video that the media and all culturalists in Sweden are SOOOOOOO mad about!
How 'bout a video about Germany with some nazis? Or perhaps a video about finns with a bottle of moonshine and a knife? Or perhaps a video of all the racist swedes? Everybody would just laugh and enjoy the parody...
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Beorn
03-21-2009, 03:08 PM
And here's that HORRIBLE video that the media and all culturalists in Sweden are SOOOOOOO mad about!
Yuck! I would have been offended if that was about England.
How 'bout a video about Germany with some nazis?
I think the Germans have enough self flagellation issues about the whole second world war without us contributing towards that.
Hilding
03-21-2009, 03:45 PM
Yuck! I would have been offended if that was about England.
I think the Germans have enough self flagellation issues about the whole second world war without us contributing towards that.
Well atleast I have enogh self distace to enjoy a parody that is made for fun and not for political propaganda. Prejudices makes good jokes.
Beorn
03-21-2009, 04:13 PM
Prejudices makes good jokes.
They certainly do. Yet this wasn't exactly the pinnacle of comedy. This was just tasteless and tacky, and if it was geared towards England I would be overly offended.
Anna Titova was right in being offended, but wrong in how she should have been offended.
Hilding
03-21-2009, 04:21 PM
They certainly do. Yet this wasn't exactly the pinnacle of comedy. This was just tasteless and tacky, and if it was geared towards England I would be overly offended.
Anna Titova was right in being offended, but wrong in how she should have been offended.
Well I agree on that it "wasn't exactly the pinnacle of comedy" but still I don't think that it is anything to be offended by. It is all over the swedish media you know.
Beorn
03-21-2009, 04:40 PM
It is all over the swedish media you know.
Must be a particularly slow period for the Swedish press. :D
The English press is currently going crazy over a low-IQ'd half-caste from East London with cancer.
ReichGirl
03-21-2009, 09:44 PM
Long live Germany Long Live the Reich!
Germany in this competition is what? And what the hell is Sweden’s.
Inese
03-22-2009, 12:14 PM
It is good that they make fun about Russian symbols!! :thumb001: Under the dirty red star million of people have died by communists and moscow imperialists, they subyugate other people and countries. Anna Titova should shut up and go home to Russia....
The Lawspeaker
03-22-2009, 12:34 PM
I agree with that. They don't get scorned for no reason.
If you look at Russia's history (not just her recent history) you'll see bloodshed, imperialism, conquest and murder coupled with nothing less then incompetence (they want an empire just for the heck of it, killing everything that is in their way, but they don't know how to rule it). Not much more- and most certainly not less.
Doesn't the Swedish press have any important issues to write about: like the multicultural society that is so "enriching" their beautiful country... or what is left of it ?
RoyBatty
03-22-2009, 12:47 PM
I see a lot of Russian this Russian that comments but how many of those celebrated "Russian" bad boys were actually Russian? How many "crimes" can be attributed to Russians vs other ethnic or religious groups in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union?
Furthermore, let's not forget that Westerners (and here I include the ENTIRE Western Europe and the USA) have been and sometimes still are guilty of amongst other things, warmongering, slavery, colonialism and drugrunning and millions upon millions of deaths around the world.
Do we really want to start this pointing the finger at Russia game? Which nations amongst us are entirely without guilt? :confused:
As for the song, it's idiotic. Why don't they also make some "humourous" tunes about the Muslims, Jews and Blacks so that everybody can have an equal chance to be entertained? We wouldn't want to discriminate would we?
Which nations amongst us are entirely without guilt?
Only the ones who were in slavery for their entire history, for example, Latvians.
However, if we associate murderers and hankers of Latvian SS with the Latvian nation, not even them...
Inese
03-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Latvian SS
National heroes fighting USSR scum!!!
National heroes fighting USSR scum!!!
The ones who burnt Byelorussians villages together with their defenceless inhabitants, the ones who run a children death camp literally sucking children's blood, the ones who massacred the entire local Jewish population with pleasure and sadism even before Nazi made it to Latvia...
Heros good enough for the ever slave nation of Latvia.
The Lawspeaker
03-22-2009, 05:45 PM
National heroes fighting USSR scum!!!
The SS were scum themselves. Although I think that the Finnish or Baltic SS were a different breed of people then the German SS was: the Balts and Finns were fighting for national liberation.
The ones who burnt Byelorussians villages together with their defenceless inhabitants, the ones who run a children death camp literally sucking children's blood..What has Russia been doing for all of it's history ? Let's say they got paid back for once. Karma is a b.tch.
Heros good enough for the ever slave nation of Latvia. Can you get more obnoxious ? Latvia is a free, democratic country and a valued member of the European family.. other then your non-European slave state.
What has Russia been doing for all of it's history ? Let's say they got paid back for once. Karma is a b.tch.
It's interesting that you defend murder and torture of children and peaceful peasants... who weren't even Russian, for starters.
Can you get more obnoxious ?
Yes.
Latvia is a free, democratic country and a valued member of the European family..
LOL
Nobody values parasites, even if they're kept in a fully foreign controlled terrotory with half of its inhabitants deprived of basic political, economical and cultural rights.
other then your non-European slave state.
What's about half-Muslim, half-gay Netherlands? :rolleyes2:
RoyBatty
03-22-2009, 06:50 PM
The SS were scum themselves. Although I think that the Finnish or Baltic SS were a different breed of people then the German SS was: the Balts and Finns were fighting for national liberation.
The Estonians and Ukrainians burning people alive in Belarus (Belarus is NOT Russia by the way) were fighting for liberation? :confused: That's news to me.
What has Russia been doing for all of it's history ? Let's say they got paid back for once. Karma is a b.tch.
What was Russia doing throughout its history? Invaded by France, attacked by the Swedes, attacked by Britain, attacked by the USA, attacked by Germany supported by Dutch and Belgian divisions..... yeah... real bad guys.
Can you get more obnoxious ? Latvia is a free, democratic country and a valued member of the European family.. other then your non-European slave state.
Latvia isn't so free at all. Especially for those who make mention of economic problems or those who aren't "Latvian" enough.
RoyBatty
03-22-2009, 06:55 PM
National heroes fighting USSR scum!!!
Some of the top bosses in the Cheka were Latvian. Things started going wrong with Latvian / Russian relations in the 1930's after Stalin had a lot of Latvians purged, just as he had 1000's of people from other nationalities purged. He was a Georgian by the way.
Hopefully you hate them with equal fervour? :confused:
Inese
03-22-2009, 07:15 PM
The SS were scum themselves. Although I think that the Finnish or Baltic SS were a different breed of people then the German SS was: the Balts and Finns were fighting for national liberation.
Yes right of course!! Germany has a very good reputation in Latvia it is the country our people see the most positive!! :)
Hors is a person to not discuss with him, he is a example how the normal Russian think ----- all others are slaves and idiots and should knee down before his monster-slavs from Russia! :coffee::mad: Take a human, exchange all brain-cells with vodka and you have the Russian....
Roybatty you dont know the situation in our country!!! Where the Russian set his foot everything gets worse and degenerates! Crime , economic failure and blackmail! We could be so developed and rich like Finland or Norway but we had the russian imperialistic mongrols in our country until USSR broke! And now we have more than 35% Russians in our county , they were brought into our country because of political agenda - demographic GENOCIDE on ethnic latvians , we should be substituted by Russians!!! If you want to help our Baltic states take a strong army and get rid of the Russians in our countries!!!
Treffie
03-22-2009, 07:25 PM
I can actually understand why Saturday night’s events on the Globen stage seem completely unproblematic in Sweden. It’s hard to expect anybody in a country that “missed” the Second World War to understand the importance of the symbols.
Touché! :D
Where the Russian set his foot everything gets worse and degenerates! Crime , economic failure and blackmail!
Now compare the situation in Russia with its currency strengthening and in the Baltic States where they stop lightening streets in major cities.
We could be so developed and rich like Finland or Norway but we had the russian imperialistic mongrols in our country until USSR broke apart!
LOL
You're always poor. There is even a saying in Russian that a Latvian has only his dick and his soul :D
And now we have more than 35% Russians in our county , they were settled into our country because of political agenda - demographic GENOCIDE on ethnic latvians , we should be substituted by Russians!!!
Indeed, there was a political agenda - to develop the backward impoverished Baltic regions, but as Latvians, due to milleniums of slavery were (and still are) incapable to develop anything of value, being backward uneducated peasants it was decided to move the qualified work force from Russia. Eventually, Russians made Latvia and Estonia the most advanced, developed and rich regions in the USSR.
Some of the top bosses in the Cheka were Latvian. Things started going wrong with Latvian / Russian relations in the 1930's after Stalin had a lot of Latvians purged, just as he had 1000's of people from other nationalities purged. He was a Georgian by the way.
It was not only Cheka. It were also infamous Latvian Red Shooters, cold blooded sadistic murderers of thousands and thousands Russians. They were the major force of Bolsheviks, esp. when it came to terror and ethnic and class cleansing.
Vacetis was chief in comand of the Red Army in 1919.
Lenin publicly admitted, that without Latvian RedShooters the Revolution would have failed.
Hey, Lawspeaker, so in 1940 and 1944 Latvians got what they deserved, heh? Karma is b.tch :thumb001:
The Estonians and Ukrainians burning people alive in Belarus (Belarus is NOT Russia by the way) were fighting for liberation? :confused: That's news to me.
It's their national style. They have burned their Jewish neighbours in synagogues alive as well.
RoyBatty
03-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Roybatty you dont know the situation in our country!!! Where the Russian set his foot everything gets worse and degenerates! Crime , economic failure and blackmail! We could be so developed and rich like Finland or Norway but we had the russian imperialistic mongrols in our country until USSR broke! And now we have more than 35% Russians in our county , they were brought into our country because of political agenda - demographic GENOCIDE on ethnic latvians , we should be substituted by Russians!!! If you want to help our Baltic states take a strong army and get rid of the Russians in our countries!!!
Inese, I realise there's a lot of animosity between Latvia and Russia but blaming them for everything.... it's just not correct. Things are similar in my country where the "majority democratically elected govt." blames my people for everything the government messes up.
As Hors mentioned, the USSR spent a lot of effort, time and money developing infrastructure in the Baltics. It wasn't a case of "they broke everything".
Another thing to consider is that Latvia has been out of the USSR since at least 1992? Blaming Russia now for economic problems makes no sense. Those problems were caused by financing the Latvian economy with excessive loans from Western Banks. If anything, the West has really screwed Latvia and a number of other Eastern European countries by conning them into taking all that money. The poor guys thought that the upward economic cycle would just continue indefintely.... and now they suddenly realise... oops.... we're broke AND we've just pawned our country to the banks....
Another thing to keep in mind is that as much as you despise the Russians, things could be a lot worse. For example, the Latvian population could have been 35% African and Muslim. In a couple of years Sweden will have majority Muslim / Immigrant cities. No wonder they're so busy making anti-Russian songs because they apparently need a reason to feel good about themselves while they're being bent over. That's a real tragedy.. for them and the craziest thing about it is that it's hardly mentioned in their media because this type of news is "blacked out". So much for "freedom of speech" in Europe. It doesn't exist.
When the USSR broke up many ethnic groups ended up on one or the other side of the borders. It's unlikely that there are going to be mass removals of people in ex-USSR states from one to another, for example, Russians being removed from Latvia or, another example, Finno-Ugric peoples being expelled from Russia. That basically means "getting along with the neighbours" would make more sense than arguing. It's not to the benefit of either Latvia or Russia. There are other countries who have an interest in manipulating bad feelings and hatred between Russia and its neighbours. Think twice before becoming a tool for them.
You can't move your country and Russia isn't going to disappear so easily. Many Europeans have tried that trick and failed.
Hilding
03-22-2009, 10:32 PM
Well the conclusion that I draw from your posts in this thread is that you all seem to think like the politically correct media in Sweden. That it is HIGHLY offensive to make a parody of another country. If this particular song is good or not is not the issue really it's more a matter of freedom of speech in my opinion. I don't believe in censorship in humour or art and I think that all people that lack the self distance and can't enjoy a parody really will be more unhappy persons and miss out on many good laughs.
Please try to stay on topic, this thread isn't about if you like or dislike Russia.
Please try to stay on topic, this thread isn't about if you like or dislike Russia.
I thought it is. :)
When the USSR broke up many ethnic groups ended up on one or the other side of the borders. It's unlikely that there are going to be mass removals of people in ex-USSR states from one to another, for example, Russians being removed from Latvia or, another example, Finno-Ugric peoples being expelled from Russia. That basically means "getting along with the neighbours" would make more sense than arguing.
There were mass removals of Serbs from Croatia and Kosovo in ex-Yugoslavia.
There was massive exodus of Russians from Caucasus and especially Chechnya, as well as from Central Asia... Kazakhastan was majority Russian 15 years ago.
The threat is real. Russia shall not tolerate discrimination of Russian co-patriots in the Baltic States, as it becomes more and more decisive and aimed at the total removal of Russians from the Baltic States.
Personally, I'm convinced that Russia should apply military force, not now but in 2 or 3 years, when the military reform and re-armament are over and the Baltic States still in anarchy and poverty. NATO will not meddle in, as we saw with Georgia... not that it's in position to meddle in. Russia has got both legal and moral grounds to re-establish the control over Latvia and Estonia. Lithuania is a different issue. They're Russophobic, but don't infringe the rights of local Russians... so let 'em live... for a time being :)
stormlord
03-22-2009, 11:31 PM
In Soviet Russia, Bear dances you!
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Birka
03-22-2009, 11:36 PM
There were mass removals of Serbs from Croatia and Kosovo in ex-Yugoslavia.
There was massive exodus of Russians from Caucasus and especially Chechnya, as well as from Central Asia... Kazakhastan was majority Russian 15 years ago.
The threat is real. Russia shall not tolerate discrimination of Russian co-patriots in the Baltic States, as it becomes more and more decisive and aimed at the total removal of Russians from the Baltic States.
Personally, I'm convinced that Russia should apply military force, not now but in 2 or 3 years, when the military reform and re-armament are over and the Baltic States still in anarchy and poverty. NATO will not meddle in, as we saw with Georgia... not that it's in position to meddle in. Russia has got both legal and moral grounds to re-establish the control over Latvia and Estonia. Lithuania is a different issue. They're Russophobic, but don't infringe the rights of local Russians... so let 'em live... for a time being :)
If only Patton had not been taken out of the picture, he would have organized the remaining German Army and wiped out Stalin and Russian imperialists like you who think they have a right to the Baltic countries. I am still in amazement that you are still allowed on this forum.
RoyBatty
03-23-2009, 06:39 AM
Well the conclusion that I draw from your posts in this thread is that you all seem to think like the politically correct media in Sweden. That it is HIGHLY offensive to make a parody of another country.
This isn't some lighthearted fun. There's a difference between joking and being deliberately offensive.
If this particular song is good or not is not the issue really it's more a matter of freedom of speech in my opinion. I don't believe in censorship in humour or art and I think that all people that lack the self distance and can't enjoy a parody really will be more unhappy persons and miss out on many good laughs.
Sure. So lets so some more Swedish "jokes" broadcast on National TV about Muslims, Africans and Jews. Do you believe it will happen? I don't.
Please try to stay on topic, this thread isn't about if you like or dislike Russia.*Cough*... yeah.... sure. :rolleyes:
If only Patton had not been taken out of the picture, he would have organized the remaining German Army and wiped out Stalin and Russian imperialists like you who think they have a right to the Baltic countries. I am still in amazement that you are still allowed on this forum.
So would that be like if only Stalin and Hitler worked together and wiped out the USA it wouldn't now be going around bombing little third world countries for fun and profits? :confused:
Hilding
03-23-2009, 07:59 AM
This isn't some lighthearted fun. There's a difference between joking and being deliberately offensive.
Oh yeah sure, swedish national tv, financed with tax money would for sure make a political statement against Russia? For real? Sweden? Those people in that song are comedians.
Sure. So lets so some more Swedish "jokes" broadcast on National TV about Muslims, Africans and Jews. Do you believe it will happen? I don't.
Yes it happen, though mostly by other immigrants but yes there is bashing of iranians, moslems etc on national television. It is called humour and prejudices makes good jokes.
*Cough*... yeah.... sure. :rolleyes:
Well it wasn't until you all made it into one.
If only Patton had not been taken out of the picture, he would have organized the remaining German Army and wiped out Stalin and Russian imperialists like you who think they have a right to the Baltic countries. I am still in amazement that you are still allowed on this forum.
What was left of the German Army consisted of "frozen meat" and other disabled units, as well as national formations not capable to fight on the Eastern front, which thus were lucky enough to avoid annihilation or captivity.
The Allied forces were hardly any better, being unable to defeat the parody of army which was called the Western front.
The general consensus is that if Patton was allowed to attack it would have led to total occupation of the entire Europe (except Britain) by the Soviets.
Inese
03-23-2009, 02:33 PM
Now compare the situation in Russia with its currency strengthening and in the Baltic States where they stop lightening streets in major cities.
Liar again Russia has economic problems too!! :coffee: And our Baltic countries are hit hard because Russians have their dirty fingers in nearly every buisness ----- more illegal than lega buisness of course
You're always poor. There is even a saying in Russian that a Latvian has only his dick and his soul :D
The next Russian lie , coming from megalomaniac people like you!! :mad: We are poor because your people made us poor , we were very rich in middle ages but Russian influence brought poverty, degeneration and destruction in to our countries.
And we are poor??? What is your country then??? Your whole shit house called USSR broke in pieces after the iron curtain felt , your imperial ideas crashed and the whole world laughed about the Russians!! Other countries only need your gas nothing else. If Russia had no gas no country would care about you vodka drinking raping and beating mongrols!! :coffee:
Indeed, there was a political agenda - to develop the backward impoverished Baltic regions, but as Latvians, due to milleniums of slavery were (and still are) incapable to develop anything of value, being backward uneducated peasants it was decided to move the qualified work force from Russia.
You are a gigantic asshole the most backward region on the continent is central Russia, sibirsk and Western Russia!!! All full of poverty. Without our baltic countries the USSR would went bankrup in 1960ies ----- You pressed us out and left nothing else as broken enviroment. After 20 years we can get out of the problems but how if we have so many Russians in our country???
Inese, I realise there's a lot of animosity between Latvia and Russia but blaming them for everything.... it's just not correct.
Sorry but what do you know , you know nothing!! Do you visited Latvia or Estonia??? Or do you know it from Internet only!?
As Hors mentioned, the USSR spent a lot of effort, time and money developing infrastructure in the Baltics. It wasn't a case of "they broke everything".
This is real non-sense Roybatty because the baltic states were very developed in middle ages as much as France, Germany, Finland or Norway!!! We was in the Hanse and very prosperous! :lightbul: If we had more luck in the history we would be a super advanced region in Europe because we Northern Europeans are the best what Human race has reached, but our bad luck is that the fate gave us the Russian scum eastern to us, we always have problems with them, they have missgunst and try to keep us dowm. They want to provit on our shoulders!!
Another thing to consider is that Latvia has been out of the USSR since at least 1992? Blaming Russia now for economic problems makes no sense.
Do you read what i write it makes sense because Russia makes the big buisness in Latvia!! :mad: They have their fingers in the game, they are the economic players, the salesmen come from Moscow to us and have their allied Russians in our country. They work together, the man is moscow says to the buisnessman in Riga what he should do and buy, and both profit from it on our cost!!
We are a small nation and small people what can we do alone against the gigantic Russian bear??? Nothing , we need help because they try to dominate us!!! They always tried to dominate us, do you get it??? You sit in your English island with only sea as a border, you dont have the breath of Russkis in your neck all your life!!
Another thing to keep in mind is that as much as you despise the Russians, things could be a lot worse. For example, the Latvian population could have been 35% African and Muslim.
Dirt is dirt, it is unimportant if the dirt is Russian or African or Muslim!!! Hear me what you would say if i say that the Pakistani in your country are improving your nation, want to make it stronger and that they en-rich your culture and that it could be worse??? Hmm what would you say?? You would say that i know nothing and that i should shut the fuck up!! :rolleyes:I dont have experience with the Pakistani in your country but you have no experience with Russians in my country. Please dont say things you cant know!!
You can't move your country and Russia isn't going to disappear so easily. Many Europeans have tried that trick and failed.
I cant move my country but we could remove the russians from OUR country in to THEIR country!! Russians into Russia and our countries for us ---- best solution.
The threat is real. Russia shall not tolerate discrimination of Russian co-patriots in the Baltic States, as it becomes more and more decisive and aimed at the total removal of Russians from the Baltic States.
Your Russian "com-patriots" have no right to be in our countries!! If they are so super-proud Russians why do they life in our country!!??? If Russia is so gorgeos why dont they move their vodka-ass into Russia where they belong to???
I can tell you why, because your Russia is a corrput nest, you want to provit from others ----- from our nations and our genetic strenghs!!
We Balts are on the same eye level with Germanics and Celts but Russian Slavs are on the eye level of Asians and Turk tribes!! We belong to the culture of Scandinavia and Germany and you belong to the culture of Cheyna, Usbekistan or Pakistan!!
Personally, I'm convinced that Russia should apply military force, not now but in 2 or 3 years, when the military reform and re-armament are over and the Baltic States still in anarchy and poverty. NATO will not meddle in, as we saw with Georgia... not that it's in position to meddle in. Russia has got both legal and moral grounds to re-establish the control over Latvia and Estonia. Lithuania is a different issue. They're Russophobic, but don't infringe the rights of local Russians... so let 'em live... for a time being :)
What do you want , come with your red army in our country and enslave us again????
You are a asshole, i am sad that my grandfather has not shoot your personal ancestors in world war ---- you would not be here then!! But okay he has killed enough Russians and i am proud about it!! My Latvian grandfather killed Russians and my German grandfather killed Russians in the Wehrmacht.
Gooding
03-23-2009, 03:38 PM
Hello, all!:) I do find it interesting that everybody in my acquaintance who is of Eastern European descent, most of them are Polish, one was Western Ukrainian, have this visceral hatred of Russia and Russians.:confused: They seem to regard them as " semi- Slavic mongrels", I guess because of the Finnic and Varangian influence on the Russian gene pool? They love their own old countries with equal vigor. I've never seen that kind of nationalism from anyone in the West and it kind of awes me, really. The only thing is, perhaps the Russians have the same kind of pride in their country that everyone else in the East does and they have their own reasons for that kind of pride, just like the Poles, the Croatians and the other Slavic/Baltic/ Magyar/ Romanian countries in that part of the world do. It seems to me to be at heart little different than the antagonism that exists between the English and the Irish, who in their turn have very good reasons to be proud of their respective heritages. My question is, is the situation in that part of the world truly that ( you'll pardon the expression, I'm sure) clear cut and black and white?
Birka
03-23-2009, 04:18 PM
So would that be like if only Stalin and Hitler worked together and wiped out the USA it wouldn't now be going around bombing little third world countries for fun and profits? :confused:
If you read my posts, I am a libertarian who is 100% against American imperialism. I voted for candidate Ron Paul who wants all our troops out of all foreign countries. He also wants to end all foreign aid to all foreign countries. Some day Americans will realize that we cannot afford to be the imperial police force of the world, nor is it in our best interests.
Gooding
03-23-2009, 04:56 PM
If you read my posts, I am a libertarian who is 100% against American imperialism. I voted for candidate Ron Paul who wants all our troops out of all foreign countries. He also wants to end all foreign aid to all foreign countries. Some day Americans will realize that we cannot afford to be the imperial police force of the world, nor is it in our best interests.
That is quite true.We have enough issues here without worrying about the worries and woes of outlanders who scream for money and protection from us.We need to focus on the interests of our own Folk, tighten up security around the U.S./Mexican border, throw out the illegals and work on our economy.We also need to reestablish our dominance as a people here and reform our media.The multiculturalists need to realize that not only does their system not work, but they've managed to weaken and demoralize our nation.
Liar again Russia has economic problems too!!
Russia doesn't beg other countries for money. On the contrary, it gives BILLIONS in interstate loans.
The next Russian lie , coming from megalomaniac people like you!! :mad: We are poor because your people made us poor , we were very rich in middle ages
Who are "we"? If you're talking about Baltic Germans, it's true. Ethnic Latvians, however, were poor as church rats and treated like like cattle. They were even prohibited to live in cities, for example, in Riga. They were nothing more than slaves of Germans.
but Russian influence brought poverty, degeneration and destruction in to our countries.
The contrary is true.
And we are poor??? What is your country then???
We have no debts, we're 5th or 6th economy in the world, we're the richest nation in ex-USSR per capita, while in Eastern Europe we're next only to Czechia and Slovenia.
Your whole shit house called USSR broke in pieces after the iron curtain felt , your imperial ideas crashed and the whole world laughed about the Russians!! Other countries only need your gas nothing else. If Russia had no gas no country would care about you vodka drinking raping and beating mongrols!! :coffee:
Не злись, зверушка :)
You are a gigantic asshole the most backward region on the continent is central Russia, sibirsk and Western Russia!!! All full of poverty. Without our baltic countries the USSR would went bankrup in 1960ies -----
LMAO
You pressed us out and left nothing else as broken enviroment. After 20 years we can get out of the problems but how if we have so many Russians in our country???
You're still alive only because of the wealth left from the USSR which you squandered. You yourselves are incapable to develop a sound economy, it always had to be Germans or Russians, with you as their docile but useless slaves.
And Lithuania is as deep in shit as you, and its Russians population is very very small.
This is real non-sense Roybatty because the baltic states were very developed in middle ages as much as France, Germany, Finland or Norway!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
We was in the Hanse and very prosperous! :lightbul:
I see now... "we" stands for Germans and has nothign to do with Latvian cattle :D
If we had more luck in the history we would be a super advanced region in Europe because we Northern Europeans are the best what Human race has reached, but our bad luck is that the fate gave us the Russian scum eastern to us, we always have problems with them, they have missgunst and try to keep us dowm. They want to provit on our shoulders!!
LOL
Do you read what i write it makes sense because Russia makes the big buisness in Latvia!! :mad:
Name 5 big businesses controlled by Russians.
They have their fingers in the game, they are the economic players, the salesmen come from Moscow to us and have their allied Russians in our country. They work together, the man is moscow says to the buisnessman in Riga what he should do and buy, and both profit from it on our cost!!
The girl is obviously insane.
Dirt is dirt, it is unimportant if the dirt is Russian or African or Muslim!!! Hear me what you would say if i say that the Pakistani in your country are improving your nation,
Latvia is not your country, Latvia belongs to Russia acc. to the treaty with Sweden. :D
I cant move my country but we could remove the russians from OUR country in to THEIR country!! Russians into Russia and our countries for us ---- best solution.
And Russians can move Latvians to where they belong, to their historical motherland - SIBERIA :thumb001:
Your Russian "com-patriots" have no right to be in our countries!!
It's their countries, not yours.
If they are so super-proud Russians why do they life in our country!!???
See above.
If Russia is so gorgeos why dont they move their vodka-ass into Russia where they belong to???
Latvia is nothing more than the Ost-See province of Russia, only temporarily out of Russian jurisdiction.
I can tell you why, because your Russia is a corrput nest, you want to provit from others ----- from our nations and our genetic strenghs!!
Latvia is a parasite nation, it can only thrive on theft, corruption, money laudering, smuggling and prostitution. As soon as Russia made it impossible for Latvians to make money on the Russian transit Latvia becam ebankrupt, and the crisis only accelerated the process.
We Balts are on the same eye level with Germanics and Celts but Russian Slavs are on the eye level of Asians and Turk tribes!! We belong to the culture of Scandinavia and Germany and you belong to the culture of Cheyna, Usbekistan or Pakistan!!
Genetically, the Balts are Finno-Ugrian and came to Europe only recently, several thousand years ago from Siberia. But soon Russians will send them back there.
What do you want , come with your red army in our country and enslave us again????
The country is not yurs, it should be liberated from you.
You are a asshole, i am sad that my grandfather has not shoot your personal ancestors in world war ---- you would not be here then!! But okay he has killed enough Russians and i am proud about it!! My Latvian grandfather killed Russians and my German grandfather killed Russians in the Wehrmacht.
I hope you will be in Latvia the day the glorious Russian Army liberates it and sends all Latvians, including you, to Siberia... I could be in position to allocate for you a nice beech on the shore of the Arctic Ocean :D
Gooding
03-23-2009, 05:13 PM
Wow..I think I am beginning to understand the animosity..:eek:
The Lawspeaker
03-23-2009, 05:16 PM
Nah. Hors is just showing his true Russian colours. They are more Nazi then the Nazi's.
Sarmata
03-23-2009, 05:45 PM
Well I must say to Hors that exist similarity beetwen Russian and Baltic gene pool, and N haplogroup is numerous amongst Russians.
You talked about "murderers" from Latvian SS, well they were noble soldiers when we compare them to RONA and other "rezuns", right?
I have nothing against You and other Russians but I think that small states like Latvia and Poland(compared to Russia) have right to independence and their/our own law and to cultivate their/our own culture especially when they/our forfathers many times shed their own blood for that reason.
Birka
03-23-2009, 05:50 PM
...and to cultivate their/our own culture especially when they/our forfathers many times shed their own blood for that reason.
Isn't that what this forum is about, preserving European ethnicity and culture?
:thumbs up
That is why I am here.
Gooding
03-23-2009, 07:13 PM
Isn't that what this forum is about, preserving European ethnicity and culture?
:thumbs up
That is why I am here.
Ditto on this end, comrade!:cool:
RoyBatty
03-23-2009, 07:32 PM
Sorry but what do you know , you know nothing!! Do you visited Latvia or Estonia??? Or do you know it from Internet only!?
:speechless-smiley-0
This is real non-sense Roybatty because the baltic states were very developed in middle ages as much as France, Germany, Finland or Norway!!!
Huh??? What alternate reality universe do you come from? Germany didn't even exist in the Middle Ages!!! :confused:
We was in the Hanse and very prosperous! :lightbul: If we had more luck in the history we would be a super advanced region in Europe because we Northern Europeans are the best what Human race has reached, but our bad luck is that the fate gave us the Russian scum eastern to us, we always have problems with them, they have missgunst and try to keep us dowm. They want to provit on our shoulders!!
Why is it that every miniature country always seem to believe that they were the originators of the white race, the center of the universe and that everything else was "stolen" from them. You're beginning to sound like the FYROM's. Boring.
Do you read what i write it makes sense because Russia makes the big buisness in Latvia!! :mad: They have their fingers in the game, they are the economic players, the salesmen come from Moscow to us and have their allied Russians in our country. They work together, the man is moscow says to the buisnessman in Riga what he should do and buy, and both profit from it on our cost!!
Yeah yeah sure sure.... Russia keeps ruining your country because they enjoy losing money. Latvians are victims. Boo hoo......
We are a small nation and small people what can we do alone against the gigantic Russian bear??? Nothing , we need help because they try to dominate us!!! They always tried to dominate us, do you get it??? You sit in your English island with only sea as a border, you dont have the breath of Russkis in your neck all your life!!
It's worse than the Russians. Over here we get to pick from the friends of Allah, the Albanians, the friends of Israel, Omabongo and our own irrepressible PC Police. Sorry but for me it's a no-brainer which I'd rather have on my doorstep. You don't realise how lucky you are compared to how bad it gets for some of the rest of us.
Dirt is dirt, it is unimportant if the dirt is Russian or African or Muslim!!! Hear me what you would say if i say that the Pakistani in your country are improving your nation, want to make it stronger and that they en-rich your culture and that it could be worse??? Hmm what would you say?? You would say that i know nothing and that i should shut the fuck up!! :rolleyes:I dont have experience with the Pakistani in your country but you have no experience with Russians in my country. Please dont say things you cant know!!
I didn't use bad language towards you so relax. Fanaticism is hardly going to help your cause either. Calm down. Try to act like a human.
I cant move my country but we could remove the russians from OUR country in to THEIR country!! Russians into Russia and our countries for us ---- best solution.
The term for that is ethnic cleansing. It usually doesn't work unless you have friends who are willing to bleed for you or you have a huge military. Saakashbaboon and Gamzakhurdia from Georgia are two great examples of what happens when idiots start believing they can "purify" their countries.
Your Russian "com-patriots" have no right to be in our countries!! If they are so super-proud Russians why do they life in our country!!??? If Russia is so gorgeos why dont they move their vodka-ass into Russia where they belong to???
I can tell you why, because your Russia is a corrput nest, you want to provit from others ----- from our nations and our genetic strenghs!!
We Balts are on the same eye level with Germanics and Celts but Russian Slavs are on the eye level of Asians and Turk tribes!! We belong to the culture of Scandinavia and Germany and you belong to the culture of Cheyna, Usbekistan or Pakistan!!
Sigh........ :loco:
What do you want , come with your red army in our country and enslave us again????
You are a asshole, i am sad that my grandfather has not shoot your personal ancestors in world war ---- you would not be here then!! But okay he has killed enough Russians and i am proud about it!! My Latvian grandfather killed Russians and my German grandfather killed Russians in the Wehrmacht.
If this is your friendly face I wouldn't want to see you angry, LOL!!! :laugh:
RoyBatty
03-23-2009, 07:42 PM
Isn't that what this forum is about, preserving European ethnicity and culture?
:thumbs up
That is why I am here.
Indeed it is which is why I question the wisdom of promoting xenophobia between the countries / cultures which are considered to be "European". One could play the European "let's blame one another" or "let's all pick our favourite untermenschen" game all day long. Nobody are going to come out of it with clean hands or proven racial superiority. It's pointless fighting WW2 all over again. The only people who benefit from wars are the bankers and industrialists and occasionally, the fanatics who get sponsored and employed by those bankers and industrialists.
The problems we face today are becoming a major threat to all of our countries and cultures and we'd be better off cooperating instead of bickering over bs.
Inese
03-23-2009, 08:35 PM
I ask myself why people dont care about the preservation of our Baltic countries and culture???? It is a board about European preservation and Russian imperialism against small countries like Latvia is the oposite of preservation!!! :mad: Why do you treat us like air??? Are we too small??? We are only good for cheap beer or what ---- Loki please do something and remove this Hors from the board!!
Russia doesn't beg other countries for money. On the contrary, it gives BILLIONS in interstate loans.
Liar again, Russia is in a bad situation because of the crisis!! And you have many depts , you have taken credits from Germany and other countries. Pay it back!! You use your gas to blackmail other countries like Ukraine , it is the Russian blood ---- if you dont get what you want you harm others!
Who are "we"? If you're talking about Baltic Germans, it's true. Ethnic Latvians, however, were poor as church rats and treated like like cattle. They were even prohibited to live in cities, for example, in Riga. They were nothing more than slaves of Germans.
You only try to mis-lead the people i know about the history of my country good enough! The Germans did many good things to our country , the teutonic knights and many more! We like Germans they were always friends to us... But the Russians are the opposite they always come as aggresor and imperialists and talk shit like you! :mad:
And i am Latvian to 75%, German to 25%. I am proud to have Baltic and Germanic genes , you have neither one or the other , loser! :coffee:
We have no debts, we're 5th or 6th economy in the world, we're the richest nation in ex-USSR per capita, while in Eastern Europe we're next only to Czechia and Slovenia.
You have depts, many depts you took credits from Western countries. Dont lie to people!
Не злись, зверушка :)
tschjornaja dyrka , tschudil’nik.....:rolleyes2:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The first reaction of the doctor after he saw you after birth????
Latvia is not your country, Latvia belongs to Russia acc. to the treaty with Sweden. :D
Latvia belongs to Latvians and to no one else. My country is in the EU you cant harm us , if you attack us the whole EU will fight your country and remove the russian bastard!!
And Russians can move Latvians to where they belong, to their historical motherland - SIBERIA :thumb001:
You have no experience and wisdom about genetic and history: All Europeans come from the caucasus a long time ago...only the russians not ---- they came from the south and mixed with mongols, asians, tartars and turk people. You have the dirtiest race of the world mixed with bad ethnicies..
Latvia is nothing more than the Ost-See province of Russia, only temporarily out of Russian jurisdiction.
Dream on idiot! The baltic countries will never be a part of Russia again, this time is over and we are so glad about it.
Russia is a parasite nation, it can only thrive on theft, corruption, money laudering, smuggling and prostitution.
I fixed your posting now it is correct!! :coffee:
Genetically, the Balts are Finno-Ugrian and came to Europe only recently, several thousand years ago from Siberia. But soon Russians will send them back there.
That is wrong only some Estonians are finno ugric, Balts are a own group with relationship to Germanics and Slavs but not Russians.
The country is not yurs, it should be liberated from you.
Someone should liberate the continent from Russian scum like you. You are a threat to all who want to life free and prosperus. You only want to dominate and torture others , go to hell! :mad:
I hope you will be in Latvia the day the glorious Russian Army liberates it and sends all Latvians, including you, to Siberia... I could be in position to allocate for you a nice beech on the shore of the Arctic Ocean :D
Before that happens we allocate you Russians to a nice place six feet under where you belong to!!
Huh??? What alternate reality universe do you come from? Germany didn't even exist in the Middle Ages!!! :confused:
But German states and German duchies dont play as you would dont know that...
What you call "alternative universe" is the reality, you must wake up from your dream.
Why is it that every miniature country always seem to believe that they were the originators of the white race, the center of the universe and that everything else was "stolen" from them. You're beginning to sound like the FYROM's. Boring.
Miniature country?? You talk like a Russian about us, from above downwards. How respectless are you??? Yes we are a small country and not many people but we have our history, culture and pride and we have a right to defend it against Russians. We have a right to preservation!!! Do you want to take it from us?
And our "miniature country"" is a holiday destination for your countrymen ; why do you speak so respectless about the Baltic states? Maybe you only like our country to buy cheap beer and easy sex but we are more worth than that. Realise it wont you?!!
Yeah yeah sure sure.... Russia keeps ruining your country because they enjoy losing money. Latvians are victims. Boo hoo......
How often have you kissed the ass of Hors in the past? :rolleyes2: Are you his new sex tool? You are only echoing his shit!! If you has nothing to say be silent.
I tell you what: My dad was hit by a knife, i was beaten more than one time and all of this were Russians!! Have you ever asked yourself the question to you why my family moved to Germany some years past??? I can tell you: Because of the russians who threatened my family , harmed my parents and beat me because i am the daughter of my father! We have experienced Russian ---superiority--- on our own skin! I can tell you there is nothing positive on them!! They are rapers, killers, blackmailers and criminals by genes and culture!! Many Latvians have the same experience but not all are so lucky to have family relationships in Germany where they can move to and seek schelter!
It's worse than the Russians. Over here we get to pick from the friends of Allah, the Albanians, the friends of Israel, Omabongo and our own irrepressible PC Police.
Yes and what? I am not making fun about your situation , i would support English preservation anytime and love it , but you are the one who makes fun about our countries and kiss the ass of the Russian who want to remove our sovereignity once again!! Shame on you Roybatty really--
I didn't use bad language towards you so relax. Fanaticism is hardly going to help your cause either. Calm down. Try to act like a human.
You dont use bad language but the sentences you say hurt a lot because it shows that too many people in the West are ignoring our problems because they want to have good terms with Russia!! We feel abadoned because of people like you!
The term for that is ethnic cleansing. It usually doesn't work unless you have friends who are willing to bleed for you or you have a huge military.
Yes we need more friends. You dont want to be a friend as i see...
Saakashbaboon and Gamzakhurdia from Georgia are two great examples of what happens when idiots start believing they can "purify" their countries.
You think that multi-cultural imigration and parallel socieites in a country are a good thing??? Or why do you make fun about Georgias attempt to gain freedom. If you think that Georiga was wrong than you must LOVE your pakistani, muslims, africans and political correct media in your country because then it is that what you deserve. Georgia must tolerate Muslims and Russians in their country and you must tolerate muslims, pakistani in your country.
If this is your friendly face I wouldn't want to see you angry, LOL!!! :laugh:
No need to show a friendly face to people who want to ruin our country or take away our rights to self-existence!!
Well I must say to Hors that exist similarity beetwen Russian and Baltic gene pool, and N haplogroup is numerous amongst Russians.
Most Russians have 5-10% of it (more in the north, less in the south). Baltics have 40-50%.
You talked about "murderers" from Latvian SS, well they were noble soldiers when we compare them to RONA and other "rezuns", right?
First of all, dude, we CONDEMN the bastards, not adore them like Latvian cattle do.
Second, what does RONA have to do with Russians except the name?
I have nothing against You and other Russians but I think that small states like Latvia and Poland(compared to Russia) have right to independence and their/our own law and to cultivate their/our own culture especially when they/our forfathers many times shed their own blood for that reason.
And I think that ethnic minorities in small countries have the right to live there and not being discriminated. And if the above mentioned small countries refuse it their independence should be revoked.
The Lawspeaker
03-23-2009, 08:54 PM
And I think that ethnic minorities in small countries have the right to live there and not being discriminated. And if the above mentioned small countries refuse it their independence should be revoked.
Right.. let me compare the Russian minorities in the Baltic to the Turkish minority here. Does the couple of percent of Turkish citizens here turn us into a Turkish province? If you would say yes to that then perhaps you are indeed on the wrong forum.
Because those immigrants are-- guess what.... colonists.
And what are the Russians who were imported under Stalin's Empire.. yes they were colonists.
Well my friend- I think that the Baltic did indeed make a mistake: they allowed them to stay. Whereas many other countries- that includes my own.. would have kicked out the colonists (we did it with the German citizens in 1945 during Operation Black Tulip).
Or since the Russians were/are a lot worse then even the Germans were: it would have been (given the genocide the Russians have inflicted upon the Baltic populations) regrettable but perhaps perfectly understandable if they would have had them all shot.
They didn't- they are citizens now. With equal representation. The Russians displaced millions of people- the Balts allowed the Russian colonists to stay. Who are the better people ?
Yes- the Balts. But then again-- only fools let the enemy stay within. And I hope (from the bottom of my heart) that the Baltic will not pay dearly for this.humane mistake.
Liar again, Russia is in a bad situation because of the crisis!!
Russia has caught cold and sneezing, while Latvia is already on the way to morgue :D
And you have many depts , you have taken credits from Germany and other countries. Pay it back!!
Stupid girl. Russia's state debt is ver very small, almost non-existant. Russia is wealthy enough even to help Russian private companies to pay their debts.
Latvia, on the contrary, is totally bankrupt.
You use your gas to blackmail other countries like Ukraine , it is the Russian blood ---- if you dont get what you want you harm others!
Isn't it only just that Ukraine should pay for gas the price Latvia pays?
You only try to mis-lead the people i know about the history of my country good enough! The Germans did many good things to our country
Correction: Germans did a lot of good thing to THEIR country. Latvia never belonged to Latvian cattle aka Latvians.
, the teutonic knights and many more! We like Germans they were always friends to us...
That's why Latvians weren't allowed in the cities. Cities are for humans, it's absurd to allow there cattle.
But the Russians are the opposite they always come as aggresor and imperialists and talk shit like you! :mad:
Russians have always treated Latvian cattle better than Germans. They even allowed Latvian cattle to live in cities!!! Together with Germans!!!
Imagine, that's when Latvians learned how to use toilette!!!
And i am Latvian to 75%, German to 25%!!! I am proud to have Baltic and Germanic genes , you have neither one or the other , loser! :coffee:
So you're 75% non-European and belong to Siberia.
You have depts, many depts you took credits from Western countries. Dont lie to people!
LOL
Prove it, silly girl.
Latvia belongs to Latvians and to no one else.
A country cannot belong to slaves, only to their masters. It's either Germans or Russians.
My country is in the EU you cant harm us , if you attack us the whole EU will fight your country and remove the russian bastard from the universe!!
That's wat retards like you were talking about Georgia :D:D:D
You have no experience and wisdom about genetic and history: All Europeans come from the caucasus a long time ago...
:coffee:
only the russians not ---- they came from the south and mixed with mongols, asians, tartars and turk people. You have the dirtiest race of the world, mixed with bad ethnicies..
:coffee:
Dream on idiot! The baltic countries will never be a part of Russia again, this time is over and we are so glad about it.
Oh, c'mon, how many times the Baltics were incirporated and re-incorporated into Russia? :D
I fixed your posting now it is correct!! :coffee:
не злись, зверушка :D
That is wrong only some Estonians are finno ugric, Balts are a own group with relationship to Germanics and Slavs but not Russians.
Balts just speak an IE language, but genetically they're Siberian.
Someone should liberate the continent from Russian scum like you. You are a threat to all who want to life free and prosperus. You only want to dominate and torture others , go to hell! :mad:
A lot of people tried, inthe result Latvians always found themselves being slaves of Russians :D
Before that happens we allocate you Russians to a nice place six feet under where you belong to!!
Who are "we"? Latvians? They will soon die out in their bankrupt country. The empty land will be resettled by Russians.
And our "miniature country"" is a holiday destination for your countrymen, why do you speak so respectless about the Baltic states?
Maybe because Latvia is the prime European sex tourism destination? Respect cheap Latvian whores? LOL
I tell you what: My dad was hit by a knife, i was beaten more than one time and all of this were Russians!!
Good news from Latvia, finally :D
Have you ever asked yourself the question to you why my family moved to Germany some years past???
Because Latvia is the shithole of Europe with no future?
And what are the Russians who were imported under Stalin's Empire.. yes they were colonists.
I have a couple of questions for you:
1. Should the whites leave Americas, Africa and Australia and move back to Europe? Aren't they colonists, after all?
2. Was it right to kick Germans out of Silesia, Prussia, Volyn etc.? Weren't they colonists, after all?
Another thing to consider is that Russians were cleansed from the Baltic States many times.
What's now the Baltic States was the Russian territory since the beginning of it's written history. When Germans came to build Riga back in the 13th century they asked permission from Russian princes, as it was Russian land. Eastern Eastinia and Eastern Latvia were populated by Russians (along side with locals), there were several Russian principalities there. A lot of Russian presence was eliminated by Germans during the Tataro-Mongol invasion of Russia, however, Russians were numerous in Estonia and Latvia till the times of Ivan the Terrible (second half of the 16th century), who started the war because Russians were discriminated and their churches and houses destroyed. In the result of war, Russians were cleansed from Latvia and Estonia. But they returned in the 17th century, to be wiped out again. And once agained they returned in the 18th century and restored their presence. However, when the Baltic States got independence they eliminated the Russian comunity.
So when you speak about "Stalin colonists" you should realize that Russians have lived in Latvia and Estonia for centuries. Many European peoples occupy their present lands for much shorter periods.
Well my friend- I think that the Baltic did indeed make a mistake: they allowed them to stay. Whereas many other countries- that includes my own.. would have kicked out the colonists (we did it with the German citizens in 1945 during Operation Black Tulip).
Allowed? LOL
Or since the Russians were/are a lot worse then even the Germans were: it would have been (given the genocide the Russians have inflicted upon the Baltic populations) regrettable but perhaps perfectly understandable if they would have had them all shot.
Genocide? You're talking out of your arse.
And of course nobody can shoot Russians without punishment. Ask your buddies Chechens or Georgians.
They didn't- they are citizens now. With equal representation.
LOL
You're talking about things you've not got the slightest idea about. Only Lithuania granted citizenship to all people on its territory, incl. Russia. Latvia and Estonia refused to do it. No citizenship. No equal representation. Discrimination is rampant. That's why Latvians and Estonians will eventually die out in Siberia...
The Russians displaced millions of people- the Balts allowed the Russian colonists to stay. Who are the better people ?
What are you talking about? Who was displaced?
Yes- the Balts. But then again-- only fools let the enemy stay within. And I hope (from the bottom of my heart) that the Baltic will not pay dearly for this.humane mistake.
They will pay dearly for discrimination of Russians. We always return and have it our way.
Sarmata
03-23-2009, 10:23 PM
Most Russians have 5-10% of it (more in the north, less in the south). Baltics have 40-50%.
But 10 % percent of 116.000.000 ;) Ok Balts had more N haplogroup in percentage but it's rather normal if we take their neighbourhood with Ugro-Finns...That what you said that Balts comes from Siberia it's little manipulation or just sheer spite for young lady...
First of all, dude, we CONDEMN the bastards, not adore them like Latvian cattle do.
Second, what does RONA have to do with Russians except the name?
And there are no Russians(Russian NS) who "worship" them ofcourse:rolleyes: Second, besides Asian bastards who were murdered Polish citizens of Warsaw in 1944 there were also ethnic Russians(in RONA)... unfortunately.
And I think that ethnic minorities in small countries have the right to live there and not being discriminated. And if the above mentioned small countries refuse it their independence should be revoked.
Problem is when minorities becomes to large and host Nation must protect his own independence...Personally I haven't got any problems to European minorities in my Motherland, but fortunately Poles are almost 97% in Poland...
But 10 % percent of 116.000.000 ;) Ok Balts had more N haplogroup in percentage but it's rather normal if we take their neighbourhood with Ugro-Finns...
Finns have 55-60%. So iy's pretty evident that Balts are assimilated Fenno-Ugrians.
That what you said that Balts comes from Siberia it's little manipulation or just sheer spite for young lady...
No, what I say is true.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/10038/2007/00000052/00000009/00000179
Y-chromosome haplogroup N dispersals from south Siberia to Europe
In order to reconstruct the history of Y-chromosome haplogroup (hg) N dispersals in north Eurasia, we have analyzed the diversity of microsatellite (STR) loci within two major hg N clades, N2 and N3, in a total sample of 1,438 males from 17 ethnic groups, mainly of Siberian and Eastern European origin. Based on STR variance analysis we observed that hg N3a is more diverse in Eastern Europe than in south Siberia. However, analysis of median networks showed that there are two STR subclusters of hg N3a, N3a1 and N3a2, that are characterized by different genetic histories. Age calculation of STR variation within subcluster N3a1 indicated that its first expansion occurred in south Siberia [approximately 10,000 years (ky)] and then this subcluster spread into Eastern Europe where its age is around 8 ky ago. Meanwhile, younger subcluster N3a2 originated in south Siberia (probably in the Baikal region) approximately 4 ky ago. Median network and variance analyses of STR haplotypes suggest that south Siberian N3a2 haplotypes spread further into Volga-Ural region undergoing serial bottlenecks. In addition, median network analysis of STR data demonstrates that haplogroup N2-A is represented by two subclusters, showing recent expansion times. The data obtained allow us to suggest Siberian origin of haplogroups N3 and N2 that are currently widespread in some populations of Eastern Europe.
So the naughty girl should be sent to Siberia, to work in uranium mines :D
And there are no Russians(Russian NS) who "worship" them ofcourse:rolleyes:
Who cares for a couple of dozens of retards. The Satan worshippers are even more numerous, so what?
Second, besides Asian bastards who were murdered Polish citizens of Warsaw in 1944 there were also ethnic Russians(in RONA)... unfortunately.
RONA consisted mostly of Ukrainians and Byelorussians (and even some Poles), commanded by a Pole.
Problem is when minorities becomes to large and host Nation must protect his own independence...Personally I haven't got any problems to European minorities in my Motherland,
Of course you don't, after oles have cleansed Germans from German Silesia and Prussia (that's 50% of territory of contemporary Poland).
Russians should have done the same with Latvians, to be able to say something like -
but fortunately Poles are almost 97% in Poland...
Inese
03-24-2009, 03:18 PM
Stupid girl.
I am glad that you see me as a stupid girl because if a russian calls me stupid then i know i say the right things!! If you would agree with me it was a shame. :coffee:
Correction: Germans did a lot of good thing to THEIR country. Latvia never belonged to Latvian cattle aka Latvians.
Latvia belogs to Latvians because the name of country is Latvia and not Russia ---- and who do you call cattle hmm?? We are not sub human dirt like you , Baltics are considered as proud and advanced Europeans , we are the most progressiv and blonde race in Europe!! We are more blonde and blue eyed than Germanics!!
What about Russians??? This is your kind:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2001/putinsoli.jpg
dumb, brutal, stupid --- mongrels!
Cities are for humans, it's absurd to allow there cattle.
That is why Latvian SS and Wehrmacht shoot Russians hm?!!!!
Russians have always treated Latvian cattle better than Germans. They even allowed Latvian cattle to live in cities!!! Together with Germans!!!
Cattle here cattle there , how stupid are you??? You love cattle hmmm? Maybe your girlfriend is a cattle too..... :rolleyes:
Imagine, that's when Latvians learned how to use toilette!!!
Yes that is when we learned to shit you Russians in the face....:coffee:
Oh, c'mon, how many times the Baltics were incirporated and re-incorporated into Russia? :D
Every story ends , your countrys story of imperialism too!
Good news from Latvia, finally :D
It says enough that you support harm on my parents and me!!! But what to expect from Russians??? You laugh if older people beat me as a girl who was not even 14 years old!! Your people are fully responsible for the hate we have on you , it is your fault and one day you will harvest what you seed ----a bulett you and your people deserve for try to hold us down in our own baltic nations!!
Because Latvia is the shithole of Europe with no future?
I will go back to Latvia after i have good school graduations and then i will help my con-patriots to throw people like you out of our country!!:mad: My parents moved to Germany because of me --- that i have good chances and a better enviroment to grow up without Russians.
and who do you call cattle hmm??
The ones who were not allowed in Latvian cities by their German masters, of course. :D
I will go back to Latvia after i have good school graduations
Surely you're going to help your country by joining its only thriving industry - the sex tourism?
and then i will help my con-patriots to throw people like you out of our country!!
That's right, Latvian "patriots" are all cons :D :D :D
@Lawspeaker
You've posted a lot rubbish and I spent a lot of time explaining how wrong you're. Does your silence mean you will not make silly posts about Russia anymore?
The Lawspeaker
03-24-2009, 03:57 PM
@Lawspeaker
You've posted a lot rubbish and I spent a lot of time explaining how wrong you're. Does your silence mean you will not make silly posts about Russia anymore?
I didn't post rubbish.. on the contrary. you are the one that is posting the imperialist genocidal rubbish and I only want to argue with those that are worthy of my time and my attention.
As a typical Russian you are apparently man enough to take it out on a young girl but not man enough to stay to the facts,
You're delusional. And you post rubbish. The last one was about Baltic citizenship for all Russians. If you'll care to address this issue, I'll remind you about many other unsubstantiated claims you made.
RoyBatty
03-24-2009, 08:08 PM
Miniature country?? You talk like a Russian about us, from above downwards. How respectless are you??? Yes we are a small country and not many people but we have our history, culture and pride and we have a right to defend it against Russians. We have a right to preservation!!! Do you want to take it from us?
I don't want to take anything from you. I remarked that you have "small country syndrome", in other words, a chip on your shoulder and a sense of over importance. Nobody's talking about harming Latvia, that's insane. The entire idea is to support ALL European nations and peoples and that includes Latvia. It also includes Russia.
And our "miniature country"" is a holiday destination for your countrymen ; why do you speak so respectless about the Baltic states? Maybe you only like our country to buy cheap beer and easy sex but we are more worth than that. Realise it wont you?!!
If I wanted easy sex why would I want to leave the UK? You're not making any sense. As for cheap beer, it's affordable enough so again, not sure why we'd need to go to the Baltics for that. Not sure I can make much sense of your ranting........ :confused:
How often have you kissed the ass of Hors in the past? :rolleyes2:
Uhm.....Is that really necessary? :confused:
Are you his new sex tool? You are only echoing his shit!! If you has nothing to say be silent.
You're talking like a street whore. I could treat you like one if that's what you want but are you really really sure it's necessary to descend to gutterspeak? Or is this just your natural breeding?
I tell you what: My dad was hit by a knife, i was beaten more than one time and all of this were Russians!! Have you ever asked yourself the question to you why my family moved to Germany some years past??? I can tell you: Because of the russians who threatened my family , harmed my parents and beat me because i am the daughter of my father! We have experienced Russian ---superiority--- on our own skin! I can tell you there is nothing positive on them!! They are rapers, killers, blackmailers and criminals by genes and culture!! Many Latvians have the same experience but not all are so lucky to have family relationships in Germany where they can move to and seek schelter!
How am I supposed to know your family history? :confused: Anyway, these things happen anywhere. Where I'm from it gets much worse than a few punchups or the occasionaly stabbing. Count yourself lucky.
Yes and what? I am not making fun about your situation , i would support English preservation anytime and love it , but you are the one who makes fun about our countries and kiss the ass of the Russian who want to remove our sovereignity once again!! Shame on you Roybatty really--
I wasn't making fun of your country or demanding that they be integrated into Russia. My apparent crime was saying that we, as white Europeans, all need to get along and work together for the greater good instead of getting stuck with idiotic arguments amongst ourselves. If you think the "EU" is going to protect you, think again. The EU isn't even protecting itself.
You dont use bad language but the sentences you say hurt a lot because it shows that too many people in the West are ignoring our problems because they want to have good terms with Russia!! We feel abadoned because of people like you!
That's right, I haven't used bad language so I'd appreciate it if you did the same.
Yes we need more friends. You dont want to be a friend as i see...
You think that multi-cultural imigration and parallel socieites in a country are a good thing???
You're demanding I "choose sides" in some kind of re-enactment of WW2. You must be insane. The last thing on earth I support is white-on-white violence and strife.
Or why do you make fun about Georgias attempt to gain freedom. If you think that Georiga was wrong than you must LOVE your pakistani, muslims, africans and political correct media in your country because then it is that what you deserve. Georgia must tolerate Muslims and Russians in their country and you must tolerate muslims, pakistani in your country.
Georgia is an example of what happens when idiot "nationalists" start committing genocide against their own populations, ie, people who have lived there for centuries. It's got nothing to do with "Georgia being free". It has everything to do with them trying to steal land which was never theirs in the first place but was gifted to them by Stalin. In the CCCP this didn't matter but after the CCCP dissolved it turned out to be a huge mistake and has led to a lot of trouble since.
No need to show a friendly face to people who want to ruin our country or take away our rights to self-existence!!
Oh for f*** sake, grow up, put a sock in the hysterics and get a clue. :rolleyes2:
RoyBatty
03-24-2009, 08:21 PM
Right.. let me compare the Russian minorities in the Baltic to the Turkish minority here. Does the couple of percent of Turkish citizens here turn us into a Turkish province?
In a couple of years the Turks and Moroccans will be the bosses. Just wait.
And what are the Russians who were imported under Stalin's Empire.. yes they were colonists.
Let me get this straight.... a Georgian comes up with a diabolical master plan to colonise the Baltics with Russians? :p
Well my friend- I think that the Baltic did indeed make a mistake: they allowed them to stay. Whereas many other countries- that includes my own.. would have kicked out the colonists (we did it with the German citizens in 1945 during Operation Black Tulip).
I suppose you'd propose that the Finno-Ugric peoples of Russia should be expelled as well... together with all kinds of other minorities? While we're at it... may as well expel the Saami from Finland too. Wouldn't that just be cosy.
Or since the Russians were/are a lot worse then even the Germans were: it would have been (given the genocide the Russians have inflicted upon the Baltic populations) regrettable but perhaps perfectly understandable if they would have had them all shot.
I guess those Balts had nothing whatsoever to do with serving in SS Legions which were going around burning villagers and farmers in the CCCP. Innocent little lambs. Perhaps you believe in fairytales. I don't.
They didn't- they are citizens now. With equal representation. The Russians displaced millions of people- the Balts allowed the Russian colonists to stay. Who are the better people ?
No offense but are you on crack? What EQUAL REPRESENTATION are you talking about? :confused:
Yes- the Balts. But then again-- only fools let the enemy stay within. And I hope (from the bottom of my heart) that the Baltic will not pay dearly for this.humane mistake.
Come on man... that's fanaticism talking. We're all supposed to be working together for the greater good instead of promoting white-on-white genocide and spewing hatred.
They didn't- they are citizens now. With equal representation. The Russians displaced millions of people- the Balts allowed the Russian colonists to stay. Who are the better people ?
No offense but are you on crack?
Apparently, he is.
Some interesting facts about Latvia and Latvians:
1. In 1940 - 1953 only 57 000 residents of Latvia were deportated to inner regions of the USSR. Mostly for collaboration with the Nazi.
2. It weren't only ethnic Latvians, but Russians, Poles, Jews etc.
3. The deportations were orginized and conducted by ethnic Latvians.
4. In 1917-1923 more than 100 000 Latvian Red Shooters were employed by Bolsheviks in ethnic and class mass executions.
5. Out of 44 members of the Bolshevik Military Council 4 were ethnic Latvians and only 1 was an ethnic Russian.
6. Latvians constituted less than 1% of population of the Russian Empire, yet they were the THIRD largest ethnic group in CHEKA.
7. An ethnic Latvian was commander in chief of the Red Army in 1918-1919.
Sarmata
03-24-2009, 09:15 PM
Finns have 55-60%. So iy's pretty evident that Balts are assimilated Fenno-Ugrians.
No, what I say is true.
No it's rather pretty evidented that Balts(like Latvians and Lithuanians) assimilated large group of Fenno-Ugrians, besides Estonians who are Fenno-Ugrians ofcourse:)
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/10038/2007/00000052/00000009/00000179
Y-chromosome haplogroup N dispersals from south Siberia to Europe
In order to reconstruct the history of Y-chromosome haplogroup (hg) N dispersals in north Eurasia, we have analyzed the diversity of microsatellite (STR) loci within two major hg N clades, N2 and N3, in a total sample of 1,438 males from 17 ethnic groups, mainly of Siberian and Eastern European origin. Based on STR variance analysis we observed that hg N3a is more diverse in Eastern Europe than in south Siberia. However, analysis of median networks showed that there are two STR subclusters of hg N3a, N3a1 and N3a2, that are characterized by different genetic histories. Age calculation of STR variation within subcluster N3a1 indicated that its first expansion occurred in south Siberia [approximately 10,000 years (ky)] and then this subcluster spread into Eastern Europe where its age is around 8 ky ago. Meanwhile, younger subcluster N3a2 originated in south Siberia (probably in the Baikal region) approximately 4 ky ago. Median network and variance analyses of STR haplotypes suggest that south Siberian N3a2 haplotypes spread further into Volga-Ural region undergoing serial bottlenecks. In addition, median network analysis of STR data demonstrates that haplogroup N2-A is represented by two subclusters, showing recent expansion times. The data obtained allow us to suggest Siberian origin of haplogroups N3 and N2 that are currently widespread in some populations of Eastern Europe.
So the naughty girl should be sent to Siberia, to work in uranium mines :D
with about 16 millions of Russians,right?;)
Who cares for a couple of dozens of retards. The Satan worshippers are even more numerous, so what?
RONA consisted mostly of Ukrainians and Byelorussians (and even some Poles), commanded by a Pole.
Thats eight but my thesies was that not all Russians condemned your own SS(RONA,ROA.)
Kaminski was half-Pole(his mother was German) but Andriej Andriejewicz Własow and Konstantin Pawłowicz Woskobojnik were Russians rather.
Of course you don't, after oles have cleansed Germans from German Silesia and Prussia (that's 50% of territory of contemporary Poland).
Russians should have done the same with Latvians, to be able to say something like -
After II WW Poles had very little to said about our country, all decisions about borders and displacements comes from Moscow...from the other side conception of one ethnics Nations is rather good idea...doesn't matter how cynical that sounds.
Thats eight but my thesies was that not all Russians condemned your own SS(RONA,ROA.)
Not all Poles condemn the Nazi idea to turn half of Poles into slaves to work on fields and send the other half to Siberia...
Kaminski was half-Pole(his mother was German) but Andriej Andriejewicz Własow and Konstantin Pawłowicz Woskobojnik were Russians rather.
The latter was a Ukrainian, as for Vlasov... really, he has nothing to do with SS and the course of their actions.
After II WW Poles had very little to said about our country, all decisions about borders and displacements comes from Moscow...from the other side conception of one ethnics Nations is rather good idea...doesn't matter how cynical that sounds.
Okey, put all the blame on Russians, but don't forget to hand over half of your country too
PS. And, yeah, Poles were more than willing to expel the Germans, even if it was the order from Moscow, and they did it with pleasure in the way which cannot be described as human or compassionate. And it were their neighbours!
ReichGirl
03-27-2009, 01:20 AM
These Christians are but a few of the 100,000,000 Christian innocents who were exterminated by All Anti-Christian Jewish Red Commissars in Russia under the orders of Trotsky, the Jewish Commissar of Commissars. Yet Spielberg will never Direct a "Schindler's List" Movie for them or their genocide. Why is that? Because Jews did it.
My relatives and my fellow Christians were murdered in the USSR under Jewish Marxism between 1917-1945, and many of the Marxists came to Russia from New York to do this to Christians in 1917 after Jacob Schiff, the Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker who owned The Guaranty National Trust, the largest bank in the United States, financed Lenin and Trotsky $35 million for the Red Revolution and the mass killing of these Christian souls. We must never forget this.
* The Role of the Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution and the Genocidal Killing of 65,000,000 Christians by the Jewish Leaders in the USSR
* Jewish Bolsheviks & Their Roles Listed in Let My People Go, Empirical Publications, 1976.
* Jews Led Red Revolution - By The Numbers
*
Jewish Bolsheviks Played Major Role in the USSR, Says www.answer.com
* Rabbi Yissocher Frand's Admission of Jewish Communist Connections
* Speech in National Geographic Magazine, Dec 1 1906, on Jewish Revolutionary Crimes in Russia
* Historical Observations on Red Revolution in USSR as Jewish
* Winston Churchill's Famous History of Zionists vs. Bolsheviks Carried in Sunday Illustrated Herald on February 8, 1920, page 5
* Jews & The Red Revolution
* Jews & the Soviet Government
* Jews , Their Press, and Others Say Jews Behind Red Revolution
* First President of Soviet Union, Yakov Sverdlov, a Jew--Article in People's Weekly World
* Jews, Communism, and The Job of Killing Off the USSR's Christians
* The Vinnitsa Christians Genocide--Committed by the USSR's Jews & Who Controlled the NKVD
* Discussion of Jewish Bolshevism as Taking Over Russia in Red Revolution with Names of Jews
* Arrested and Enslaved by Jewish Bolsheviks 52 Years Ago, These Christians Still Want to Leave Their Artic Prisons
* Jewish Use of Fascist Beating Methods, Torture, and Executions in USSR Prisons
* The Jewish Inventions of the Russian Gulags & Their Inhumane Conditions
* How Hundreds of Christian [sic. "bourgeousie" Were Lined Up and Shot by the Nazi-Like Jewish Cheka - Red Revolution Materials
* Nicholas Utin, a Jew, the First Russian Marist, 1860's to 1870's
* Jewish Founders of the Russian Social-Democratic Movement in 1883
* Jewish Socialism in 1980-1900
* Ukrainian Famine in the book "Ninth Circle" with pictures published in The Chicago American newspaper during February and March, 1935
* Genrik Yagoda, Russian Jewish Christian Killer
* The Prop Masters
* Historical Worksheet on Jewish Influences in the Red Revolution W/USA Banking Connections
* Anti-Semitism USSR Capital Crime by Grateful Communists
* Boston Globe Reports 100,000,000 Killed by Communism
* Lutheran Synod/Missouri Reports on 95.5 Million Murdered Christians in USSR by Jews
* Genocide by High NKVD Jews in Russia Still Hidden--Eric Margolis, Toronto Sun, 12-13-98
* Pictures of Dying Ukrainians in The Chicago American, February and March 1935
* Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee
* Jews Blamed for Lithuanian Genocide
* Jewish Assassination of Czar Alexander
* Lazar Kaganovich, Soviet Jewish Commissar and Christian Genocidal Killer
* Trotsky -- Lev Davidovich Bronstein
* Reuter's Story on Crucifixions, Scalpings, and Beastial Torture of the Christians in USSR
* How the Jews Led USSR Communism
* "Yiddish Culture, Socialist Politics and the Shaping of Immigrant Jewish Identity in America, 1890-1924," Dissertation by Stanford Ph.D. candidate Anthony Michels
* Netherland Ambassadors Report on Jewish Bolsheviks Published by U.S. State Department
* Post USSR Jewish Control Areas
* Email to Jew Watch from USSR Victims
* Commemorating the 65,000,000 Dead with European Holocaust Memorial Week, a European Holocaust Museum, and $20 Trillion in Reparations
* Stalin's Jews
First Russian Marxists Were Jewish
Nicholas Utin, a Jew, the First Russian Marxist, 1860's to 1870's.
Instrumental in Creating a Russian Section in the First Communist International.
'In the 1860s and '70s, Jewish activists occupied some of the highest positions in the fledgling Russian revolutionary movement.
The "pioneer of Russian-Jewish revolutionary action" was Nicholas Utin, a baptized Jew who was instrumental in creating a Russian Section in the First International.
Known as the first Russian Marxist, Utin was prominent in the struggle of the International's Marxian wing against the anarchistic tactics of Bakunin. '
-- Philip Mendes, THE NEW LEFT, THE JEWS AND THE VIETNAM WAR, 1965-1972, Lazare Press, North Caulfield, Victoria, Australia, p 10 from material printed originally in Parkin, A.L. The Origins of the Russian-Jewish Labour Movement. F.W.Cheshire Pty Ltd. Melbourne. 1947. p80.
Jewish Russian Social-Democrats 1883
Jewess Assassin of Tsar Alexander
Jewish Founders of the Russian Social-Democratic Movement in 1883
Hesya Helfmann, Jewish Assassin of Tzar Alexander
"Utin was followed by a great number of Jews including Mark Natanson, the founder of the Russian Narodnik movement, Paul Axeirod who together with George Plckahnov and Vera Zasulitch formed the "Triumvirate" of the founders of the Russian Social-Democratic movement in 1883, Rosalie Bograd who married Plekhanov, Meir Molodetsky, Gregory Goldenberg, Mw Deutch, Vladimir Jochelson, Aaron Sundelievitch, and Hesya Helfmann, who was among those sentenced to death for the assassination of Czar Alexander."
-- Philip Mendes, THE NEW LEFT, THE JEWS AND THE VIETNAM WAR, 1965-1972, Lazare Press, North Caulfield, Victoria, Australia, p 10 from information found in: Parkin, A.L. The Origins of the Russian-Jewish Labour Movement. F.W.Cheshire Pty Ltd. Melbourne. 1947. pp8O-84; Feuer, Op Cit, pp157-158; Ascher, Abraham. "Pavel Axelrod: A Conflict Between Jewish Loyalty and Revolutionary Dedication" in Russian Review 24 1965, pp249-265; Schapiro, Leonard. "The Role of the Jews in the Russian Revolutionary Movement" in Slavonic and East European Review 490 (Dec 1961), pp 148-167.
Jewish Socialist Youth
Jewish Socialism in 1980-1890.
Revolutionary Emotion and Socialist Protests Among Jewish Student Youth.
'In the following two decades - in the '80s and '90s - the "explosion of revolutionary emotion among Jewish student youth" crystallized into a movement of Jewish socialism, the first of its kind in Jewish history.'
Patkin traces the origins of "Jewish Socialism" to the "two explosive elements - mass misery and intellectual doctrine" which had existed in Jewish life for many previous generations.
These explosive elements had often produced mass revolts against the rich and the powerful in communal affairs, one example being the emergence of the Chassidic movement, Jewish socialism reflected the extension of Chassidism as a doctrine "for the poor" into a "revolutionary situation of social protest and resentment."'
-- Philip Mendes, THE NEW LEFT, THE JEWS AND THE VIETNAM WAR, 1965-1972, Lazare Press, North Caulfield, Victoria, Australia, p 10, from material gathered in Parkin, A.L. The Origins of the Russian-Jewish Labour Movement. F.W.Cheshire Pty Ltd. Melbourne. 1947. p80.
THE JEWISH GULAG:
RACIST USSR WORK CAMPS
FOR UNFORTUNATE NON-JEWS
http://sunsite.unc.edu/expo/soviet.exhibit/gulag.html
Found on this site on July 12, 1998
The Soviet system of forced labor camps was first established in 1919 under the Cheka, but it was not until the early 1930s that the camp population reached significant numbers.
By 1934 the GULAG, or Main Directorate for Corrective Labor Camps, then under the Cheka's successor organization the NKVD, had several million inmates.
Prisoners included murderers, thieves, and other common criminals-along with political and religious dissenters.
The GULAG, whose camps were located mainly in remote regions of Siberia and the Far North, made significant contributions to the Soviet economy in the period of Joseph Stalin. GULAG prisoners constructed the White Sea-Baltic Canal, the Moscow-Volga Canal, the Baikal-Amur main railroad line, numerous hydroelectric stations, and strategic roads and industrial enterprises in remote regions. GULAG manpower was also used for much of the country's lumbering and for the mining of coal, copper, and gold.
Stalin constantly increased the number of projects assigned to the NKVD, which led to an increasing reliance on its labor. The GULAG also served as a source of workers for economic projects independent of the NKVD, which contracted its prisoners out to various economic enterprises.
Conditions in the camps were extremely harsh. Prisoners received inadequate food rations and insufficient clothing, which made it difficult to endure the severe weather and the long working hours; sometimes the inmates were physically abused by camp guards. As a result, the death rate from exhaustion and disease in the camps was high.
After Stalin died in 1953, the GULAG population was reduced significantly, and conditions for inmates somewhat improved. Forced labor camps continued to exist, although on a small scale, into the Gorbachev period, and the government even opened some camps to scrutiny by journalists and human rights activists.
With the advance of democratization, political prisoners and prisoners of conscience all but disappeared from the camps.
[NOTE: The communists had their concentration camps in service since 1919 all the way up to and including the Gorbachev period.]
INHUMANE CONDITIONS
IN THE JEWISH USSR GULAG SYSTEM
INVENTED & GUARDED BY THE JEWS
WHO FOUNDED & RAN THE USSR:
Found on this site on July 12, 1998
http://sunsite.unc.edu/expo/soviet.exhibit/d2presid.html
To the Presidium of the Central Executive Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolshevik)
We appeal to you, asking you to pay a minimum of attention to our request. We are prisoners who are returning from the Solovetsky concentration camp because of our poor health.
We went there full of energy and good health, and now we are returning as invalids, broken and crippled emotionally and physically.
We are asking you to draw your attention to the arbitrary use of power and the violence that reign at the Solovetsky concentration camp in Kemi and in all sections of the concentration camp.
It is difficult for a human being even to imagine such terror, tyranny, violence, and lawlessness. When we went there, we could not conceive of such a horror, and now we, crippled ourselves, together with several thousands who are still there, appeal to the ruling center of the Soviet state to curb the terror that reigns there.
As though it weren't enough that the Unified State Political Directorate [OGPU] without oversight and due process sends workers and peasants there who are by and large innocent (we are not talking about criminals who deserve to be punished), the former tsarist penal servitude system in comparison to Solovky had 99% more humanity, fairness, and legality.
[...] People die like flies, i.e., they die a slow and painful death; we repeat that all this torment and suffering is placed only on the shoulders of the proletariat without money, i.e., on workers who, we repeat, were unfortunate to find themselves in the period of hunger and destruction accompanying the events of the October Revolution, and who committed crimes only to save themselves and their families from death by starvation. They have already borne the punishment for these crimes, and the vast majority of them subsequently chose the path of honest labor. Now because of their past, for whose crime they have already paid, they are fired from their jobs.
Yet, the main thing is that the entire weight of this scandalous abuse of power, brute violence, and lawlessness that reign at Solovky and other sections of the OGPU concentration camp is placed on the shoulders of workers and peasants; others, such as counterrevolutionaries, profiteers and so on, have full wallets and have set themselves up and live in clover in the Soviet State, while next to them, in the literal meaning of the word, the penniless proletariat dies from hunger, cold, and back-breaking 14-16 hour days under the tyranny and lawlessness of inmates who are the agents and collaborators of the [Jewish] State Political Directorate [GPU].
If you complain or write anything ("Heaven forbid"), they will frame you for an attempted escape or for something else, and they will shoot you like a dog. They [Jews] line us up naked and barefoot at 22 degrees below zero and keep us outside for up to an hour. It is difficult to describe all the chaos and terror that is going on in Kemi, Solovky, and the other sections of the concentrations camp. All annual inspections uncover a lot of abuses. But what they discover in comparison to what actually exists is only a part of the horror and abuse of power, which the inspection accidentally uncovers.
One example is the following fact, one of a thousand, which is registered in GPU and for which the guilty have been punished:
THEY FORCED THE INMATES TO EAT THEIR OWN FECES.
"Comrades," if we dare to use this phrase, verify that this is a fact from reality, about which, we repeat, OGPU has the official evidence, and judge for yourself the full extent of effrontery and humiliation in the supervision by those who want to make a career for themselves. [...]
We are sure and we hope that in the All-Union Communist Party there are people, as we have been told, who are humane and sympathetic; it is possible, that you might think that it is our imagination, but we swear to you all, by everything that is sacred to us, that this is only one small part of the nightmarish truth, because it makes no sense to make this up. We repeat, and will repeat 100 times, that yes, indeed there are some guilty people, but the majority suffer innocently, as is described above.
The word law, according to the law of the GPU concentration camps, does not exist; what does exist is only the autocratic power of petty tyrants, i.e., collaborators, serving time, who have power over life and death.
Everything described above is the truth and we, ourselves, who are close to the grave after 3 years in Solovky and Kemi [Jewish run Gulags] and other sections, are asking you to improve the pathetic, tortured existence of those who are there who languish under the yoke of the OGPU's tyranny, violence, and complete lawlessness....
To this we subscribe: G. Zheleznov, Vinogradov, F. Belinskii.
Dec. 14, 1926
True copy
Christians Arrested by Jewish Bolsheviks Are Still Prisoners of Injustice
The Sunday Times of London, June 28 1998
by Mark Franchetti Vorkuta
Original Source for This Story Was Found on the Internet, July 2, 1998, at http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/98/06/28/stifgnrus02001.html?1500530 and is archived under the "fair use" provision of U.S.C. Title 17 Section 107 for scholarly, educational, and personal use by those previously requesting such.
Stalin's Forgotten Prisoners...
THROUGHOUT his tortuous 10 years of hard labour in Stalin's gulag, Pavel Negretov dreamt of the new life that would begin on the day he finished his sentence for anti-communist activities.
Still a young man, he imagined himself starting afresh in Moscow, far from the horrors he had endured.
That new life never came.
More than half a century later, Negretov remains stranded in Vorkuta, in the Arctic Circle, where he was sent to work in barbaric conditions in the coalmines of Russia's far north. Now 75, he has yet to be granted the residence permit he needs to move with his wife to the Russian capital.
Negretov is not alone.
Hundreds of former opponents of Stalin's dictatorship, including 250 in Vorkuta, have been left to their hard lives in remote regions to which they were exiled in the 1930s and 1940s. Most have struggled ever since to return to their home towns and villages. Thousands have died of old age without being allowed to resettle.
"There are queues of former political prisoners waiting to leave Vorkuta," said Yevgenia Khaidarova, of the local branch of Memorial, a human rights organisation that helps victims of Soviet repression. "The scene is the same all over Russia. These people are caught in limbo, living in a terrible vicious circle - they can't resettle without a propiska [residence permit], which they could get only if they had a flat in the city they wanted to go back to." Those dispatched to the gulag had their flats confiscated by the authorities. With their homes, they lost their right to live in the places where they had grown up with their families. If they were affluent, they could buy a privatized flat.
Deprived long ago of any opportunity to establish themselves, however, they are poor.
If they moved without an official permit, they would have no legal right to work or to receive vital benefits, including healthcare.
Like the overwhelming majority of Russians, they depend on the state to provide them with homes. So they wait in the frozen Arctic, hoping forlornly that one day the state will find them a flat somewhere - anywhere - other than Vorkuta.
Isolated from the outside world by inhospitable tundra, 100 miles north of the Arctic Circle and more than 1,000 miles from Moscow, Vorkuta is a place where winter lasts for 10 months and the temperature falls regularly to -40C. It is completely dark for weeks on end. Like the other labour camps scattered across the northern wastes and christened the gulag archipelago by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, a camp survivor himself, Vorkuta was uninhabited until geologists found huge coal reserves beneath its frozen earth. Slave labour was the only way to develop the mineral wealth.
The first prisoners were sent to Vorkuta in 1931 on a journey that took six months and claimed thousands of lives. They were crammed first into cattle trains, then onto barges along several rivers and completed the last 50 miles on foot. Between 1934 and 1954, 2 million were sent away to toil in Vorkuta's 80 mines - petty criminals, political opponents of Stalin and the hapless, innocent victims of senseless purges, "guilty" of anything from simply being related to a foreigner to having turned up late for work.
"My first year and a half was the hardest," recalled Negretov, who arrived in Vorkuta at the height of winter after being arrested in Ukraine in 1946 for collaborating with an anti-communist group. "I thought I had landed in hell. "There were three shifts of eight hours. We were escorted at gunpoint in the snow from our barracks to the mines. It was always pitch-dark, with freezing temperatures, but the wind was the most terrible thing. I used to wonder why my parents had brought me into this world. I was skin and bones, and covered in ulcers."
The inmates slept in pairs to keep warm, using one jacket as a mattress on the floor and the other as a blanket.
"We kept our boots under our heads to stop other prisoners from stealing them, and pulled our trousers down over our feet to prevent frostbite," Negretov said. "Every morning an angry corporal would wake us up, shouting. That was the worst time - waking up to another day, exhausted."
Every day in Vorkuta, prisoners starved, froze to death, were executed by guards or were killed digging in the mines. Memorial, which was headed by Andrei Sakharov, the dissident nuclear physicist, until his death in 1989, has obtained access to archives in an attempt to calculate the toll. The initial estimate is half a million dead. Today, the graves are marked by numbered, nameless wooden crosses in seven cemeteries that surround a city of 180,000 people built on bones.
"I have been here 52 years, and I have dreamt all my life of living in a city like Moscow or St Petersburg," said Negretov. "Our state has no conscience. It has forgotten about us and the Russian people as a whole. We have no democracy, only greed for more power. And who is Boris Yeltsin? A former Communist party boss. Power has not changed hands."
Since the advent of glasnost, the Russian government has rehabilitated most former zeks - as gulag inmates were known - formally recognizing them as innocent victims of repression and providing them with minimal compensation and the right to a proper pension. But it has done little to help them resettle.
Negretov fought until 1995 to be rehabilitated. He was awarded £700 compensation for the 10 years he sacrificed in the mines. All he really wants, however, is to move to any large Russian city. He was finally offered resettlement last month, but to the acrid smokestacks of Dzerzhinsk, the dangerously polluted centre of Russia's chemical industry.
Memorial has written several times to Yeltsin and the Russian parliament, urging them to help the last gulag survivors go home. But the Kremlin has other, more pressing matters to attend to.
Along with Vorkuta's ageing former prisoners, hundreds of unemployed young miners have joined the clamour to leave in search of a brighter future. They constitute a more menacing force for change. Since taking up the cause of the former inmates with the aid of the Solzhenitsyn Foundation, which is run by the writer's wife, Natalia, Memorial has managed to help several gulag victims resettle far from Vorkuta, but seldom to the cities of their choice. Some who were moved to rural backwaters without heating or hot water were so disappointed that they returned to Vorkuta.
Gulag survivors have received little support from ordinary Russians in their quest to return home. When Stalin's death in 1953 led to the release of millions of prisoners, even their families often refused to take them in, for fear of persecution by the KGB.
"The first thing I did when I was let out was to get on a train back to Moscow," said Lyubov Kalashnikova, who spent a decade in Vorkuta's camps. "I still had a brother and sister living there. "They hadn't seen me for 10 years but nobody dared welcome me home. They were too scared. Everyone was terrified of being associated with me." She was eventually forced to go back to Vorkuta. Decorated for bravery as a volunteer in the Soviet army during the second world war, Kalashnikova, now 78, was accused of treason in 1941 because she had survived a German ambush. Her superiors said she should have turned the gun on herself rather than risk capture. When she became a "free" woman, she made an annual, 46-hour journey by train to Moscow for 15 years in a vain attempt to plead for a residence permit. "I have tried to return to Moscow all my life," she said.
Kalashnikova, who can barely walk and lives with her disabled daughter in a tiny flat in Vorkuta, has never been given any hope of success. Instead, every year, she receives the letter Yeltsin sends to all veterans, congratulating them on the anniversary of the end of the war.
"I don't want to die here," said Kalashnikova, whose baby son died from diptheria in the camps at the age of two. "I hate this town. It is a symbol of death. I buried my life here, my destiny, my happiness. "My only wish is to return to Moscow, to die in my homeland. I have not lived here. I have simply existed. That has been the most painful thing - just seeing my life pass away, crossed off, erased without trace. Russia has forgotten about us."
More Proven Connections
Between Jews and Communism
in Russia and the USA
Including the Banking Connections
Between New York Jews Financing the Red Revolution
" The Jewish Communal Register" of 1917 - 1918, published by the Kehillah (Jewish communal government) states that Russian immigrant Jews brought "socialism'' (meaning "Communism") to America. It is important to note that the most violent organization involved in the overthrow of the Czar of Russia was The Jewish Bund, headed by Abramovitch and Lieber. The three other revolutionary parties included the all-Jewish Mensheviks (headed by Martov and Dan), the Social Democrats, a front for Gentiles but headed by the Jew Danishevsky and The Bolsheviks headed by Lenin who has only recently been revealed to be of Jewish descent. Note that the Bund sent money back to their comrades in Russia. More important is the remark that the failed revolution of 1905 in Russia caused "a great influx" of Jews to immigrate to the U.S. The truth is that over one million Marxist Jews flooded into the U.S.
Jews Assassinate Tzar
"The Pale of Settlement" as the vast area of Russia in which over ten million Jews were required to live. This order was issued by the Czar in 1772 because of the Jews' sharp business practices which had brought much misery upon the Christian population. The "Pale" included all of the Ukraine, western Russia, all of Poland and Lithuania. Thus the Jews were banned from St. Petersburg, Moscow, and Kharkov. Even though the Jews flourished, they were not satisfied and wanted to be able to dominate all of Russia. Thus they formed the "Social Revolutionary Party" to overthrow the Czar.
On March 13, 1881 the Jew Grinevetsky threw the bomb which killed Czar Alexander II. In 1901 they assassinated Bogolepov, the Czar's Minister of Education. They murdered Sipyagin, Minister of Interior in 1902, Bogdanovich, Governor of Ufa in 1903, Premier von Plehve in 1904, Grand Duke Sergei the Czar's uncle in 1905, Gen. Dubrassov in 1906 (his soldiers put down the Jewish revolution of 1905.). Peter Stolypin, the Prime Minister, offered vast new tracts of land to the peasants which threatened the Communist Jews of their base of support among poor Gentiles. Thus the Jew terrorist, Mordecai Bogrov, assassinated Stolypin in September 1911. He shot him in the back of the head during a gala in Kiev attended by the Czar and his Court. The Jew tailor Yevno Azev was convicted of heading the assassination squads and executed in 1911. He was also a founder of the Social Revolutionary Party.
Jews Exploit Christians
The new Tzar, Alexander III, was so infuriated with the Jews that he issued the following statement which is quoted from the Encyclopedia Britannica, page 76, Vol. 2, 1947 edition:
[quote]
"For some time the government has given its attention to the Jews and to the* relations the rest of the inhabitants of the empire, with a view of ascertaining the sad condition of the Christian inhabitants brought about by the conduct of the Jews in business matters. During the last 20 years, the Jews have gradually possessed themselves of not only every trade and business in all its branches, but also of a great part of the land by buying or farming it. With few exceptions, they have as a body devoted their attention, not to enriching or benefiting the country, but to defrauding, by their wiles, its inhabitants, and particularly its poor inhabitants ! This conduct of theirs has called forth protests on the part of the people, as manifested in acts of violence. The government, while on the one hand doing its best to put down the disturbances and to deliver the Jews from oppression and slaughter, has also on the other hand, thought it a matter of urgency and justice to adopt stringent measures in order to put an end to the oppression practiced by the Jews on the inhabitants, and to free the country from their malpractices, which were. as is known, the cause of the agitation."
(Note: Thus the so-called " pogroms" by Christians against the Jews were brought on by the Jews themselves!)
Jewish Bankers Finance Revolution In Russia
American Jacob Schiff was the wealthiest Jewish banker in the world as head of the international bank of "Kuhn, Loeb & Co." Note here that Schiff "floated the large Japanese War Loans of 1904-1905 which made their victory over Russia possible". At the end of the article we read that Schiff "used his financial influence to keep Russia from the money markets of the U.S." Also note that Schiff controlled all of the railroads in the U.S. and "suppressed ruinous competition." [Note: This would be like allowing one person to own all of the Air Lines today and "suppressing all competition." He also controlled the Central Trust Bank and Western Union.). Thus, with all this money power, Schiff was able to prevent the Czar from obtaining loans to raise armies for a defense against the Japanese. Schiff formed called "The Friends of Russian Freedom." Its purpose was to agitate for the overthrow of the Christian Czar. This group, with the help of the Japanese, ran an anti-Czar indoctrination campaign among the 50,000 Russian soldiers taken as POWs during the war. They returned home ready to support the Jewish revolution.
The first "Soviet" seized control of the city of St. Petersburg on March 14, 1917, while the nation was in turmoil over their defeats by the Germans during World War One. "The New York Times" of March 24, 1917, reports that Jacob Schiff sent the following telegram to members of his "Friends of Russian Freedom": "Will you say for me to those present at tonight's meeting how deeply I regret my inability to celebrate with the Friends of Russian Freedom the actual reward of what we had hoped and striven for these long years." (Schiff was obviously referring to the spreading Communist revolution in Russia.)
Quote from "Jewish Communal Register", 1918:
Title: Schiff Finances Enemies Of Czar
Kehillah (Jewish Community) of New York City 356 SECOND AVENUE New York City
"Schiff, Jacob Henry, was born In 1847, at Frankfort on-the- Maine, Germany. He received his education in the schools of Frankfort. In 1866 he came to America, where he settled in New York City. Here, he joined the staff of a banking house. In 11173, he returned to Europe where he made connections with some of the chief German banking horses. Upon returning to the United States, he entered the banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb and Company, New York of which he later became the head. His firm became the financial reconstructors of the Union Pacific Railroad, and since then is strongly interested in American railroad"
Mr. Schiff's principle of "community of interests among the chief railway combinations led to the formation of the Northern Securities Company, thus suppressing ruinous competition. The firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Co.. floated the large Japanese War Loans of 1904-5, thus making possible the Japanese victory over Russia Mr. Schiff is director of numerous financial companies, among them the Central Trust company. Western Union Telegraph Company, the Wells Fargo Express Company. He has been severer time vice-president of the New York Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people. He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia and used his financial influence to keep Russia from the money market of the United States.
When last year, Mr. Schiff celebrated his seventieth birthday, all the factions of Jewry in the United States and elsewhere united in paying tribute to him.
[end quote]
Trotsky and Schiff
Leon Trotsky (real name: Bronstein) was exiled from Russia and came to New York City on January 13, 1917. The Russian Jews who owned Vitagraph Movie Studies in Brooklyn gave Trotsky a job. He appeared in three films including "My Official Wife" starring Clara Kimball Young. Ironically, Trotsky played the part of a Russian revolutionary.
While in New York, Trotsky met with Schiff who saw in him the perfect revolutionary. Schiff had his "Friends of Russian freedom" locate 267 other Yiddish speaking Russian Jew exiles. He arranged for President Woodrow Wilson to give them U.S. passports so they could not be refused entry into Russia. Also, Schiff gave Trotsky $10 million (that is in 1917 dollars, which today would be worth hundreds of millions). Later Schiff would transfer another $15 million to Lenin.
[quote from "The Jewish Communist Register" of New York's Kehillah
(community government), 1918. Edition.]
"THE JEWISH SOCIALIST FEDERATION OF AMERICA" By Frank F. Rosenblatt, Chief of staff, Bureau of Philanthropic Research.
"The birth of the Jewish Socialist Federation in 1912 must be recognized as the moat important landmark in the history of the Jewish Socialist movement in this country. The Federation was the outgrowth of a previous organization, the Jewish Socialist Agitation Bureau. which for a period of seven years led a precarious and inconsequential existence. The Agitation Bureau was organized at a time when the idea of Jewish nationalism began to spread its roots in the minds of the Jewish workmen. It is to the glory of the Jewish Socialist Bund in Russia that the question of nationalism, which in the minds of the Socialists of the older generation was synonymous with oppression and subjection, was forced into the foreground. The idea became ever more popular that nationalism and internationalism are by no means mutually exclusive teens, and that genuine internationalism is possible only when all nations are guaranteed full and equal rights."
Jewish Bund Organizes In U.S.
The heroic fight of the Bund against the old Russian autocracy caused thousands of its members and followers many of them exiles to Siberia or under rigid surveillance by the gendarmes, to flee to this country! But they would not resign themselves to inactivity, and as a result a net of Bund branches was spread throughout the United States and Canada. For a number of years these branches, whose primary object was to collect funds for the Bund in Russia, were the most active and influential bodies in the Jewish radical world. Their members formed the vanguard of the Workmen's Circle (Arbeiter Ring).
This anomaly became particularly striking after the great influx of political refugees which the abortive Russian revolution of 1905 had swept to these shores.
Zionist-Socialism however, was enriched by an extraordinary new force: B. Boruchev, he introduced a theory which was necessarily very popular among the Jewish masses, who were at that time Socialistic through and through. He contended that only though a land of their own in Zion could the Jewish people have a proletariat, and that Zionism ought therefore to join forces with Socialism. Zionism thus received a Marxist basis, and appealed strongly to the masses.
Boruchov, with the assistance of other intellectual comrades -- a number of them students took charge of number of periodicals in Russian and Yiddish, which the Russian Government suppressed one after the other. (In Russian: "The Jewish Workmen's Chronicle" and "The Hammer"; In Yiddish: "The Proletarian Idea," the "Forward," and an edition of books called the "Hammer.")
(Jewish Communal Register" 1918 continued)
Beginning of "International Communism"
At the name time that the party was organized in Russia, sister societies were organized in America, in Austria, in England, and, finally, in Palestine.
The Poale-Zion were, , however, recognized as a part of the Socialist party in Turkey, which gave the party the possibility of introducing the international Socialist movement in favor of Zionism and the Jewish national aims.
The most important achievement of Poale-Zion in Palestine was the organization of Ha-Shomer (The Watchman), an organization of heroic young guards who protect the property of the colonies with their lives against thieving Arabs.
In 1907, during the Zionist congress at The Hague. delegates of the Poale-Zion parties of various countries assembled at a conference and organized the Poale-Zion Weltverband ("World Organization") which watches over the international interests of the Poale-Zion in the Zionist and the Socialist worlds. Fund, which is collected from Jews all over the world, is administered by the "World Organization."
Through its propaganda in the Socialist International and the English Labor Party the organization" has succeeded in securing a favorable attitude towards Zionist alma on the part of Socialists and labor leaders As a result, a Jewish home in Palestine is one of the points in the peace program of the "International" and of the English Labor Party.
The Poale-Zion In America
In the far-reaching work of the international Poale-Zion movement, the "Jewish Socialist Labor Party Poale Zion" of America plays the most important role after the Palestine party. The Russian reaction of 1906-1917 caused the real centre of the movement to shift to America.
"World Organization" presented a Memorandum ("The Red Book") to the Socialist International.
[end quote]
Zionism is Marxism
Russia's Jewish population supported one of the four Marxist Parties. However, many supported Theodore Herzl and his new Zionist movement. Herzl's plan was to found an all-Jewish Marxist state in some foreign underpopulated land. Herzl considered Kenya and Madagascar in Africa, Palestine and Sinai just below the present Israel.
Note that the Jewish Communal Register clearly states that Zionism is a Marxist movement. When they took over the city of Haifa in Palestine it became known as "Red Haifa". Every May Day the Jews would march through the streets with their clenched fists held high and the Red flag flying. The Soviets were the first to smuggle weapons to the Zionists so that they could wage an underground war against the British and later against the Arabs.
Jewish Bankers Unite Behind Communism
The U.S. Foreign Relations Committee of 1918 released a report on the international Jewish banks which were financing Communism. In each case they were banks owned by Jews. The Jew Olof Aschberg of Sweden's "Nya Banken" is referred to as "The Bolshevik Bank". Note that this bank "is financed in America by the Guarantee Trust Co." This bank was controlled by Jacob Schiff.
Jewish Communism in U.S.
As the Russian Jewish refugee population grew in the U.S. so did their radical Marxist groups. Note the "Communal Register" again. IT lists the four main Jewish "radical organizations". Their unity meeting took place in 1915 just two years before the Communist Revolution in Russia. We read: "The revolution in Russia, having at a single stroke, emancipated the Jews of that country."
U.S. Communist Party founded By Russian Jews
[quote from "Jewish Communal Register," 1918]:
The Four Groups Which Founded The U.S. Communist Party
The National Workmen's Committee was organized in the early part of 1915, by representatives of the four leading radical organizations, viz.: The Workmen's Circle, the United Hebrew Trades, the Jewish Socialist Federation of America, and the Forward Association.
The revolution in Russia having at a single stroke emancipated the Jews of that country, the Committee, _ . _ .though continuing its study of the Russian situation, has largely concentrated its attention upon the Romanian Jewish problem and is now engaged, in cooperation with various European organizations, in dealing with it.
[end quote]
"The Roots of American Communism" by Theodore Draper, can be ordered from your local bookstore for $11.95. This is a detailed account of the founding of the U.S. Communist Party. Excerpt from the book:
[quote]
"Most of the others in the up-and-coming New York Group were more or less of similar background. They included Dr. Maximilian Cohen, a dentist; Joseph Brodsky, a lawyer, and his brother Carl; Rose Wortis, a dressmaker; and Harry M. Winitsky. They had a number of things strikingly in common; almost all were in their twenties, some in their very early twenties; they were mostly Jewish; they came over from Russia as children or were first-generation Americans of Russian Jewish parents; they became active in the Socialist movement in their late teens and were generally about twenty or a little older at the time of the Russian Revolution."
[end quote]
The overwhelming majority of its leaders were Russian Jews. They were under the direction of the Soviets who also financed them. The chief Jewish leaders were Bertram Wolfe, who operated under the Christian name Albright. He served on the Communist Part USA National Council. The German born Jew, Max Bedacht, represented the Communist Part USA at Comintern meetings in Moscow under the Gentile name James A. Marshall. Israel Amter, a well known pianist, ran the 'Workers Party"-a Communist Part USA front group.
Amter went under the name J. Ford. In 1917 Benjamin Gitlow, of Russian Jewish parents, was one of the first Communists elected to office (as state Assemblyman from the Bronx). As late as 1945 the Communist Party had two members on the New York City Council. Both were elected from Jewish areas of the city. Two Jews born in Russia were William Weinstone, (of the Communist Part USA Central Executive Committee) and Jay Lovestone, (editor of "The Communist" magazine).
Mike Gold was editor of "New Masses." Alexander Bittelman served on the Central Executive Committee of Communist Part USA and as editor of the Yiddish Communist Part USA daily newspaper, "Freiheit". Alexander Trachtenberg fought in the failed 1905 revolution against the Czar. He fled to the U.S. and headed the front group, "Friends of the Russian Revolution. Louis Fraina, a Jew born in Italy, was the chief organizer of the original U.S. Communist Party. He operated under the name Ralph Snyder.
Majority of Communist Party Members Were Jews
Draper writes that the first daily newspaper of the Communist Party was the Yiddish "Freiheit" launched on April 22, 1922. It would be two more years before they would start a paper for Gentiles. The famous ex-Communist Whittaker Chambers, (who exposed Alger Hiss as a Soviet spy), was an early editor of The Daily Worker. He wrote that the party held separate meetings for "English speakers" and for Yiddish speakers (Jews). Chambers said that the Yiddish meetings were always the largest ! They were called "foreign language groups."
Whitaker Chambers former editor of 'The Daily Worker " said that two Jewish college professors recruited him into the Communist Party. Chambers also said that Jews made up the largest bloc in the party.
Draper writes that fewer than 25% of the members were born in the U.S. and only about 10% spoke English only. This proves that its foreign makeup had to be mainly Jewish. One reason being that all Gentile East European immigrants were strongly anti-Communists.
The Communist Party membership built up to over 100,000 by 1939 and from 50% to 75% were Jews. A/so, 25,000 members lived in New York City and this group was almost entirely Jewish. (Hundreds of thousands of other Marxist Jews supported the party and were known as "Fellow Travelers. " The party controlled several labor unions including the "Ladies Garment Workers Union" which was made up of some 6,000 Jewish women. They were all Communist Party supporters.
The power of the Communist Party was demonstrated at the Sept. 1921 convention of the Socialist Party. Draper writes: "The final blow to the Socialist Party was the defection of the Jewish federation at a convention in Sept. 1921. The entire group defected to the Communist Party. The Socialist Party membership fell to its lowest point 11,019."
Jewish Communists Today
The Jewish leaders of the Communist Part USA were always very careful to choose Gentiles as the "pubic heads" of the party. The first was William Z. Foster, then Earl Browder, Eugene Dennis and today, Gus Hall. Reading the "Communist Weekly Word" easily reveals their support of the Democratic Party and Clinton. Communists say that they have "found a new home" in the Democratic Party. In fact, Clinton has appointed three people to senior positions who have been connected with the Communist apparatus Arnold Leese. a great British expert on the Jewish problem wrote in 1938: "When the Jews leave Russia Communism will collapse." World Jewry is today relocating in America. Thus the real threat of Communism in our country has just begun.
Communism is not dead by any means and in fact is far more of a threat today than ever before. The Communist Part USA infiltration of the Democratic Party has been a meticulous operation. Herein lies the present danger of a Communist takeover of America under the name of their newest communist front which is the modern National Democratic Party.
Debate on Jews in Red Revolution
Usenet, June 19, 1998
Doc Tavish debates Jeffrey G. Brown with Supporting Internet Links
Doc Tavish Says:
EVIDENCE #1
http://x1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=288129033
Subject: The Russian Revolution: Still inspiring after 80 years (Reprinted from the November 8, 1997 issue of the People's Weekly World. May be reprinted or reposted with PWW credit. For subscription information see below)
"The Bolshevik Party (later the Communist Party) was the party of the industrial workers in Russia.... After the revolution, all legal restrictions were abolished, and the first Soviet President was a Jew, Yakov Sverdlov."
Tired of the same old system:
Join the Communist Party, USA Info: CPUSA@rednet.org; or (212) 989-4994;
or http://www.hartford-hwp.com/cp-usa
EVIDENCE #2
[Communist Party organ declares first President of Soviet Union was a Jew! The first Chairman appointed to the Soviet State was a Jew, a Jew with an alias of Trotsky. Tavish]
http://www.idbsu.edu/surveyrc/Staff/jaynes/marxism/bios/trotsky.htm
Originally named Lev Davidovich Bronstein, Trotsky was born on November 7, 1879, in Kherson Province in Ukraine, the son of Russified Jews....
The March Revolution of 1917 caught him by surprise in New York City, where he wrote for a Russian newspaper. Trotsky reached Russia in May, quickly assumed leadership of the independent left Social-Democratic Interdistrict Group, and joined the Petrograd (as St. Petersburg was renamed) Soviet. Within weeks, he had gained enormous popularity as the most eloquent agitator of the Soviet left. In July, after being courted by Lenin, he joined the Bolshevik party and was elected to its Central Committee.
As a Bolshevik, Trotsky was elected chairman of the Soviet in September. He sided with Lenin on the need to overthrow the provisional government and devoted all his energies to marshaling support for the armed uprising of the Bolsheviks. With Lenin in hiding, Trotsky was the general in charge, and he successfully directed the masses of workers and soldiers in the November revolution......
[How many of you think that Jew Trotsky's revolution was bloodless and was a debate of ideas? Notice the first Chairman of the Soviet was a Jew named Trotsky. Trotsky was also the first General and commander of the Red "Bolshevik" Army! Tavish]
http://csf.Colorado.EDU/psn/marx/Other/Trotsky/
states:
"Lev Davidovich Bronstein. Leader of the Russian Revolution. Architect of the Red Army. Commissar of foreign affairs between 1917-1924." Let's see ol' Bronstein was the Leader of the Revolution and the Architect of the Red Army too!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EVIDENCE #3
http://www.aish.org/dt-liber.htm
Society: Where Judaism and Liberalism Part
by Rabbi Nachum Braverman Aish HaTorah Los Angeles
It’s often considered axiomatic that Jews are politically liberal. This impression has some basis in fact. In 1991, the National Jewish Community Relations Council (NJCRC) identified the public agenda of the Jewish community as activism on behalf of Israel, and Soviet and Ethiopian Jewry, as well as "social and economic justice." ...
[ ... ]
Though many Jews are liberal this no more makes liberalism the Jewish agenda than the prominence of Jews among Bolsheviks made Bolshevism the Jewish agenda.
[Notice the Rabbi used the word "prominenence." Tavish]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EVIDENCE #4
http://www.jewishamerica.com/TimeLine/haskala.htm
[...]
The Czar exploits the break-offs. In their struggle against traditional Judaism, Haskala Jews are given some privileges and assistance, sometimes clandestinely. Some get influence in the Bureau of Jewish Affairs and interfere with religious matters.....
A lot of Haskala Jews are ready to give up on Russia. Many channel their energy into creating a home land of their own.
Some Haskala Jews turn to political revolution. The Russian Revolution of the early 20th century will overthrow the Czarist government and it will be led by a disproportionate number of Jews. The Czar that used civil unrest against the Jews will be destroyed by it.
[Notice the "Russian Revolution... will be led by a disproportionate number of Jews..." Tavish]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These Christians are but a few of the 100,000,000 Christian innocents who were exterminated by All Anti-Christian Jewish Red Commissars in Russia under the orders of Trotsky, the Jewish Commissar of Commissars.
Those of us who are sympathetic to victims of the Red Revolution (or rather Invasion) should not make fun of their memory by quoting absurd figures. It only makes all expressions of grief look like a parody or even mocking, as the the real figure is about 10 000 000.
ReichGirl
03-27-2009, 03:10 PM
never believe a russian :thumb001:
Inese
03-27-2009, 03:13 PM
never believe a russian :thumb001:
:thumbs up Law 1!
2Lawspeaker
You're delusional. And you post rubbish. The last one was about Baltic citizenship for all Russians. If you'll care to address this issue, I'll remind you about many other unsubstantiated claims you made.
:coffee:
The Lawspeaker
03-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Take your propaganda somewhere else, Hors. To Pravda.:coffee:
Take your propaganda somewhere else, Hors. To Pravda.:coffee:
Translation:
Get lost, Hors. Of course, I cannot prove a word of BS I post.
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