What is Germany?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Was the idea of Germany based on common language or common heritage or both? And by heritage I mean common ethnicity. Before Germany the peoples living there identified as Wurttermberger, Bavarian, Austrian, Hamburger, Prussian etc. Did they finally come together because all of them spoke a similar language kind of like the Serbocroation situation today?

[Comte Arnau]

I don't know how ethnicity can be considered apart from language, specially in Europe. I guess that's me.

An interesting question would be: would Germany be Germany if it had not been for the Prussian expansion?

[Electronic God-Man]

Was the idea of Germany based on common language or common heritage or both? And by heritage I mean common ethnicity. Before Germany the peoples living there identified as Wurttermberger, Bavarian, Austrian, Hamburger, Prussian etc. Did they finally come together because all of them spoke a similar language kind of like the Serbocroation situation today?

Common ethnicity, which contains language.

Poland, on the other hand, was different. Their nationalism was formed around the Polish language, and perhaps even more so the land called Poland. I believe this happened because of the way in which Poland was devoured several times by different nations. Since there was no Poland on the map for periods of time, the idea of remaining a nation, though it wasn't officially recognized, was more important for Poland's survival. I recall reading some early Polish nationalist say something to the effect of "Poland is in our hearts." They accepted Jews and anyone else as "Polish" so long as they felt they belonged to the idea of "Poland." This all happened in the 18th century. Poland's nationalism is an interesting one in this regard and I think it doesn't get the attention it should.

Sorry for going off-topic. Somehow Poland entered my thoughts. Probably because I think the idea of Germany is easier to explain.

First off, Germania has existed since at least the Romans, when they lumped all the German speakers across the Rhine together. And then throughout the HRE it's pretty obvious that there was some sort of "Germany" as a concept. It was the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, after all.

Actually, it's interesting to wonder if the Dutch would presently be considered Germans had they not broken away from the HRE.

EDIT: To be more precise, and it better get my point across, the quote was something more along the lines of "A Polish person is anyone who has Poland in their hearts."

[Groenewolf]

An interesting question would be: would Germany be Germany if it had not been for the Prussian expansion?

There where attempts to create an unified country before that. But that attempt suffered from a lot of problems and where not able to present workable solutions that the different governments could agree on.

[Frederick]

That song of the early German nationalism brings the answere:
With english subs:

NAslBqrbof4

Where is Germany?
as far as the German tounge is to be heard, praising god in heaven!

So all the German speaking theists.
Bot the funky english speaking atheist subhumans. They are not Germany :P

[Turkophagos]

What brought Germans together?


The Devil.

[poiuytrewq0987]

OK, so the common consensus seems to be that the German-speaking peoples reveled in the glory that they spoke a similar language despite dialectical differences. They decided to come together and form a nation for the German-speaking peoples. The Germans are not so different from the Yugoslavs then.

[Frederick]

OK, so the common consensus seems to be that the German-speaking peoples reveled in the glory that they spoke a similar language despite dialectical differences. They decided to come together and form a nation for the German-speaking peoples. The Germans are not so different from the Yugoslavs then.


In a way yes.
Sometimes there are sentences like:

"When the balkanisation of Germany ended...and Germany became a unified nationstate...."

[Logan]

http://www.freewebs.com/jimweaver1972/HRE1.GIF
Seems a bit more than German.


Would be more my thought for what we know as Deutschland.
http://www1.pickens.k12.sc.us/dhsteachers/instructional_staff/wilsonwe/bismarck.jpg


I believe it all started with the Jastorf Culture 750 BC.

[Frederick]

The song of the Germans says:

From the Maas to the Memel, from the Etsch to the Belt.
These are rivers.

And here these rivers are:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Maas_Memel_Etsch_Belt.png

[Comte Arnau]

I also wonder what Germans think about Austria? Do you see it as part of Southern Germany? As a different country? As an independent part of Bavaria?