The Norman Conquest question

[Boudica]

I had a question regarding the Norman conquest of England.. It may be a stupid one, but o'h well, i've always been told it's stupid not to ask a question if you want an answer..

I know about the Anglo Saxon invasion of England, etc and that many original English people mated with the Saxons.. A lot of people that are English consider themselves to be Anglo Saxon because of this.. However I was wondering what effect the Normans caused in the gene pool.. Since there was the Norman invasion of course.. Did they have a large impact on the gene pool as well? I just don't hear it being talked of very much..

[Guapo]

60% of english has Norman French loan words so wtf do you think?

[Boudica]

60% of english has Norman French loan words so wtf do you think?

I wasn't 100% sure "wtf to think" which is why I asked.. I just don't ever hear people talking of Norman descent in England, I usually hear Anglo Saxon..

[Guapo]

I wasn't 100% sure "wtf to think" which is why I asked.. I just don't ever hear people talking of Norman descent in England, I usually hear Anglo Saxon..

Just fucking with you. The Normans were few in number compared to the native English population. Historians estimate the number of Norman settlers at around 8,000 but teh English were too afraid to fight them because they had bigger axes and stuff.

[Curtis24]

They had negligible impact on English genes. They ruled the country as a small minority.

[Boudica]

So what i'm gathering is that they had an impact on certain areas?

[Mercury]

Yes, even though Normans civilized the Anglo-Saxon barbarians (:P) they didn't have a large genetic impact on the population. I'm sure, by now, everyone on the British isles has some small amount of Norman blood, but uhh.. I lean towards the belief that the British are still mostly Pre-Celtic with elements of Angles, Saxons, Romans, Jutes, Vikings, Normans, etc.. sprinkled in.

[ariaka]

Queen Elizabeth II is a descendant of William the COnqueror, the guy who became King due to the Norman Conquest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_of_Elizabeth_II_from_William_I

The following website mentions Norman ancestry of various aristocratic families

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f96/the-british-aristocracy-17344.html

What percentage of the aristocracy has Norman blood I do not know. I also do not know to what extend Norman blood has contributed to other social classes.

The Normans spoke French. Things related to food and finance have a lot of French loan words... budget and finance are based on French words. Juice is based on a French word(le jus). Working class words are associated with the original anglo-saxon language; words such as smith, tailor, and other words of that ilk.

[Albion]

Most estimate Norman genetics account for 2% to 5% of the population. However I have heard at least one theory which goes as high as 20% due to the population bottleneck during the Black Death where half the population of the UK got killed off.
It is suggested that the Norman aristocracy had no choice but to mix with the native English.

It's hard to tell from genetics because Northern France, including Normandy would have always been quite similar to Southern England due to proximity.
Its the same with Danish Viking and Anglo-Saxon DNA, very hard to tell apart I read.

After the last Ice Age Britain was still joined to Europe and this is when people spread back into Britain. Because the land was joined once the genetics aren't too different between England and the continent.
http://nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/2007_dogger_re-engineered_satelite_photo_530.jpg

[Beorn]

You can tell those who are descended from the normans through their love of gin, large noses with buck teeth and an unhealthy willingness to 'keep it in the family'.

[Allenson]

Yeah, they probably didn't make a huge genetic impact on the English population. Also, they were surely genetically very similar to the English anyway, so no big shakes.

[Oreka Bailoak]

Keep in mind that the Normans are...

The Normans were the people descended from Norse Vikings who in the 10th century founded the Duchy of Normandy, a fiefdom of the Kingdom of France.

This is an interesting documentary about the Normans. In America we never learned about this in school so it was fun for me to learn about their origins and how they spread. They were a bit different that I thought they would be from reading their wikipedia page.
PBNiqBQMQCI
^they must have had a huge birth rate too, compared to neighboring groups.

[Libertas]

Keep in mind that the Normans are...


This is an interesting documentary about the Normans. In America we never learned about this in school so it was fun for me to learn about their origins and how they spread. They were a bit different that I thought they would be from reading their wikipedia page.
PBNiqBQMQCI
^they must have had a huge birth rate too, compared to neighboring groups.

Yes, but they brought few women with them from Denmark and Norway and they intermarried with the French very quickly.

[Albion]

You can tell those who are descended from the normans through their love of gin, large noses with buck teeth and an unhealthy willingness to 'keep it in the family'.

Well yeah, much of the upper classes are still Norman-descended although a lot went bankrupt or lost their properties over the last century or so and they have been joined by a lot of the business elite.


The Normans were the people descended from Norse Vikings who in the 10th century founded the Duchy of Normandy, a fiefdom of the Kingdom of France.

Well most Normans descended from the French who were already there, the Vikings didn't make up much of the population but would have been a large part of the nobility. Also around 20% of the "Normans" who came to the British Isles were actually Bretons (Celts).

[Libertas]

Well yeah, much of the upper classes are still Norman-descended although a lot went bankrupt or lost their properties over the last century or so and they have been joined by a lot of the business elite.



Well most Normans descended from the French who were already there, the Vikings didn't make up much of the population but would have been a large part of the nobility. Also around 20% of the "Normans" who came to the British Isles were actually Bretons (Celts).

Yes, and some were Flemings.

[Albion]

Yes, and some were Flemings.

Oh yeah, I forgot them. Well bordering nations as a whole tend to have a degree of overlap due to history and geography and that is what this is mostly about.

[Osweo]

I reckon, after nearly 1,000 years, in which many individual families' fortunes rose and fell many times, there's not an Englishman alive without a Norman ancestor somewhere in their family tree.

That said, if all our ancestors living in 1066 were lined up to be counted, there would be a fair few non-Normans for every Norman.

For the upper class, it might be more equal proportions, but still a LOT of English in them. Many fresh off the boat married the daughters of the English lords they dispossessed. Many English ex-lords managed to scramble back into the gentry class after a few generations too. As the Middle Ages rolled on, all sorts of descendants of townsmen and merchants crept into the elite.

[Logan]

If I recall correctly the number of Normans were estimated to be about 10k, the number of English or Anglo-Saxons about 2m. It matters little, but what part of the 2m were of English desent is unknown.

The English were a mixed group both before, and after their arrival in the British Isles. To further complicate matters, by the time of the Normans they had well mixed with the aboriginal or Celtic population, and as well the Danish and Norwegian.

Current genetic studies are not as yet of much concrete assistance. This is something, that in future one might well expect to discover.

A would imagine the Normans to be genetically awash or altogether submerged. I'd be having a look at the gentry for any surviving genetic evidence.

[Curtis24]

So what i'm gathering is that they had an impact on certain areas?

No, there were not nearly enough Normans in England to have much of an impact anywhere...