How much Steppe ancestry do various MENA populations actually have?

[SharpFork]

Experimenting with vahaduo I consistently get some MENA populations that were never largely IE speaking having 10-12% Steppe ancestry but even those with such high ancestry do not have enough ENF ancestry to make it seem like a later European genetic input, so where does this ancestry come from and when did it appear? Is it even correct?

[Zoro]

Experimenting with vahaduo I consistently get some MENA populations that were never largely IE speaking having 10-12% Steppe ancestry but even those with such high ancestry do not have enough ENF ancestry to make it seem like a later European genetic input, so where does this ancestry come from and when did it appear? Is it even correct?

Your question is too vague for us to figure out exactly what you mean. What exactly are you talking about. Give some examples

[SharpFork]

Your question is too vague for us to figure out exactly what you mean. What exactly are you talking about. Give some examples
It's not vague at all, basically in trying to model Berber, Arab and other Semitic populations with Vahaduo I consistently get 5-10% IE Steppe ancestry in populations such as Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Lebanese, Assyrians and Palestinians. The question is where does it come from and why is there little ENF, especially in the Maghreb where IE would have to had traversed so much of Europe:

Source

ENF:Anatolia_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312 ,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
ENF:HRV_Cardial_N,0.1233083,0.185165,0.0110623,-0.1009917,0.058575,-0.0501073,-0.0092437,-0.0053843,0.0513353,0.0925153,0.009202,0.016685,-0.026214,0.001055,-0.0417113,-0.017281,0.0122127,0.0006757,0.0111033,-0.0136317,-0.012478,0.005894,-0.0049713,-0.0110053,-0.008143
ENF:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N,0.1222458,0.1842168,0. 0082966,-0.0902462,0.0553334,-0.044957,-0.0058282,-0.0081228,0.0436042,0.0857604,0.0063658,0.0136678,-0.0239346,-0.0047618,-0.0360746,-0.0112964,0.0194534,0.0015456,0.0086482,-0.0130314,-0.012827,0.0041546,-0.002465,-0.0036872,-0.0021554

Near_Eastern:IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C,0.0896355,0.1327805 ,-0.0780642,-0.0667802,-0.0437002,-0.0196618,0.0098702,-0.0065768,-0.035178,-0.0030977,0.0051965,-0.0013113,-0.0006317,-0.0019613,-0.0046145,0.0036128,0.00088,0.0022802,0.0032995,-0.0063468,0.0045232,-0.0033388,-0.00835,-0.0118992,0.0006588
Near_Eastern:Levant_PPNC,0.067156,0.168578,-0.023004,-0.150842,0.028621,-0.071954,-0.013866,-0.017999,0.077719,0.037905,0.006496,-0.013188,0.032705,-0.000275,-0.014929,0.008486,-0.000913,-0.007728,-0.013575,0.012381,-0.009982,0.01014,0.002958,0.003012,-0.001916
Near_Eastern:Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps,0.1013025,0.133034,-0.07071,-0.043605,-0.0498555,-0.0092035,0.008108,-0.011653,-0.066368,-0.01631,0.0030855,0.011015,-0.019846,0.005849,0.0042075,-0.0102095,-0.0001305,-0.003927,-0.001697,0.0032515,0.003494,-0.000247,-0.0036975,-0.0090975,-0.0030535
Near_Eastern:BedouinB,0.041925,0.1439232,-0.0598156,-0.1169808,-0.0093179,-0.0480622,-0.0141008,-0.0087432,0.05154,-0.0052038,0.0158689,-0.0305729,0.0629496,0.004855,0.0043959,0.0288529,-0.0199706,0.00366,-0.0040153,0.029,0.0109668,0.0152299,-0.0039166,0.0071025,-0.0083092

Steppe:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.042 6986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537

Berber:Iberia_Central_CA_Afr,-0.05122,0.140143,-0.002263,-0.091086,0.0397,-0.047133,-0.036192,0.007384,0.091013,0.044283,0.012179,-0.000899,0.006987,-0.018029,0.020087,-0.016309,0.000652,-0.016596,-0.033561,0.003001,-0.011729,-0.018548,0.013064,-0.009399,0.005987
Berber:ITA_Sardinia_C_o,-0.086506,0.136081,-0.012068,-0.097869,0.035083,-0.041834,-0.039717,0.003461,0.109011,0.035718,0.008282,-0.010341,0.027205,-0.018441,0.024294,-0.030761,-0.014473,-0.032939,-0.058324,0.012506,-0.013351,-0.045628,0.024526,-0.008676,0.00467

Subsaharan:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Subsaharan:Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
Target:

Moroccan,-0.0853671,0.1302133,-0.0128221,-0.0708806,0.0211321,-0.03294,-0.0277833,0.0097687,0.0554032,0.0243993,0.0095087,-0.0090252,0.0269902,-0.0144658,0.0163016,-0.0061874,-0.0027669,-0.0170326,-0.0384216,0.0094351,-0.0098438,-0.0295119,0.0209111,-0.0011248,0.0059207
Moroccan_North,-0.0299735,0.1373221,-0.0030378,-0.0673993,0.0280564,-0.0319174,-0.0244542,0.0050512,0.0609822,0.0327317,0.0059091,-0.0065526,0.0185908,-0.0147102,0.0151403,-0.0105629,0.0012604,-0.0179828,-0.040747,0.0092961,-0.0121937,-0.0346297,0.0214382,-0.0055763,0.0043974
Moroccan_South,-0.1844646,0.119896,0.0007308,-0.0569288,0.0239659,-0.0268258,-0.0321962,0.0152301,0.0538154,0.0285428,0.0060591,-0.0068189,0.0227358,-0.0173318,0.0181018,-0.0153306,0.0010921,-0.0189241,-0.0407889,0.0085196,-0.0148254,-0.038456,0.0240718,-0.0034944,0.0054934
Algerian,-0.0680567,0.1327805,-0.0071652,-0.0677358,0.0212218,-0.0300737,-0.0221204,0.007442,0.0530313,0.0250954,0.0055076,-0.0061695,0.0208558,-0.0138598,0.0130235,-0.0101707,-0.0033574,-0.0164009,-0.0316446,0.0071597,-0.0096392,-0.0282908,0.0181892,-0.0002661,0.0012922
Berber_Algeria,-0.2936636,0.1051579,0.0019988,-0.0400681,0.0144488,-0.012341,-0.0366736,0.0210568,0.0269358,0.0215312,0.0057566,-0.0045259,0.021318,-0.0074316,0.0114277,-0.0088304,0.0031227,-0.011079,-0.023053,0.0049898,-0.0073621,-0.019636,0.0121769,-0.0003616,0.0026523
Berber_MAR_ERR,-0.0923593,0.1309307,-0.0032863,-0.0711984,0.0256529,-0.0324909,-0.0312229,0.0101041,0.0673468,0.0299258,0.0098476,-0.0059732,0.021662,-0.0161411,0.0201934,-0.0141398,-0.005979,-0.0213652,-0.0461312,0.0094778,-0.0164531,-0.0416268,0.024808,-0.0020657,0.0053715
Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.1025221,0.131656,-0.0023166,-0.0759511,0.0310606,-0.0356582,-0.0335058,0.012016,0.0766524,0.0315659,0.0088154,-0.0092596,0.0247308,-0.0204174,0.0203483,-0.0157212,0.0001119,-0.0288305,-0.0534217,0.0119165,-0.0208205,-0.0511129,0.0307414,-0.0051899,0.0074671
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Berber_Tunisia_Sen,-0.0391015,0.1347667,-0.0189668,-0.0779,0.0188088,-0.0355667,-0.0216624,0.005864,0.0576878,0.0205605,0.0056455,-0.0122362,0.0263216,-0.009407,0.0124783,-0.0050072,-0.0056909,-0.0131682,-0.0303375,0.0115203,-0.0085143,-0.0241851,0.0149999,-4.95e-05,0.0005494
Tunisian,-0.048517,0.1313841,-0.0150849,-0.0751379,0.019619,-0.0306779,-0.022091,0.005019,0.0543778,0.0197954,0.0054402,-0.0080365,0.0267404,-0.0101842,0.013046,-0.0071432,-0.003716,-0.0129222,-0.0290048,0.0051745,-0.0104502,-0.0228294,0.0181174,-0.0033439,0.0002096
Libyan,-0.0476858,0.1309498,-0.0219326,-0.080954,0.0089733,-0.0345677,-0.020953,0.0030243,0.0520675,0.0098215,0.0061365,-0.0123917,0.0292235,-0.0049978,0.0085218,-0.0005094,-0.003788,-0.0095751,-0.0201184,0.0112686,-0.0028108,-0.0132634,0.0093993,0.0007991,-0.0002963
Maltese,0.0919124,0.1464901,-0.0024985,-0.0434031,0.0132714,-0.0178141,-0.0044064,-0.0009231,0.0110953,0.0205244,0.0061504,0.0009739,-0.0028989,-0.0007226,-0.0042581,0.0008784,-0.0004074,-0.0037688,-0.0004871,-0.0023606,-0.0061454,-0.0025968,0.0028192,0.0011899,0.002904
Spanish_Canarias,0.0812937,0.1457017,0.0302689,-0.012903,0.0378369,-0.0062237,-0.0064936,0.0008137,0.0316044,0.0290523,-0.0004957,0.0052611,-0.0071748,-0.0136175,0.0110221,-0.0021982,-0.0027382,-0.0034873,-0.0108431,0.0009874,0.0006041,-0.0064299,0.0016412,-0.0034183,0.0017017
Egyptian,-0.01548,0.1341176,-0.042778,-0.0872208,-0.0044008,-0.0333553,-0.0137874,0.0005691,0.037605,0.0011968,0.0069772,-0.0087772,0.0229334,0.0018258,-0.0005202,-6.19e-05,-0.003303,-0.0026182,-0.0034861,0.0032432,-0.0005781,-0.0022875,0.0008381,0.0008636,-0.0004072
Palestinian,0.0455292,0.134253,-0.0473285,-0.0780045,-0.0126482,-0.0297299,-0.0062276,-0.0019845,0.0167504,-0.0003096,0.0081843,-0.0096364,0.0203072,-0.0013211,-0.00095,0.0097452,-0.0020079,-0.001761,8.81e-05,0.0025387,0.0011356,0.0052801,-0.0001603,0.0023977,0.001844
Palestinian_Beit_Sahour,0.0876435,0.146744,-0.0541165,-0.084949,-0.0156955,-0.023148,-0.005405,-0.0050765,0.01176,0.0102965,0.00341,-0.00577,0.010927,-0.0052295,-0.004886,0.0144525,0.009844,0.0019635,-0.0001255,-0.0011255,-0.0016845,0.003895,0.0035125,0.005362,0.0033525
Lebanese_Christian,0.0881496,0.1457849,-0.0488581,-0.0788479,-0.0128912,-0.03074,-0.0004961,-0.0042818,0.0051812,0.0102254,0.0066579,-0.0045293,0.0103899,0,-0.0103147,0.0084709,-0.0021007,0.0017877,0.0025419,-0.0001251,0.0007627,-0.0003022,-0.0014104,0.0023564,-0.0012108
Lebanese_Druze,0.0841153,0.1404478,-0.0496667,-0.070091,-0.0156642,-0.0251838,-0.0024205,-0.0053304,-0.0023112,0.0075992,0.0051477,-0.0030274,0.009083,0.0020232,-0.0068675,0.0061655,-0.0020861,0.0008361,0.0024761,-0.000913,-0.0013225,0.0019414,0.0002465,0.0025182,-0.0005866
Lebanese_Muslim,0.075744,0.1347885,-0.0450488,-0.0672721,-0.0164783,-0.0223113,-0.0007905,-0.00579,0.0005764,0.0036448,0.0045911,-0.0038285,0.0120145,0.0028025,-0.008649,0.0038692,-0.0023587,0.0004147,0.0016226,0.0007048,-0.0016902,-0.0011465,-0.0030812,0.0017638,-0.0006749
Samaritan,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
Assyrian,0.0978879,0.1320187,-0.0621905,-0.0623096,-0.0319779,-0.017342,0.005811,-0.0057269,-0.0245056,-0.0037937,0.0042368,-0.0014715,0.0047166,-0.0003002,-0.0027515,0.0080879,-0.0006045,0.0011402,0.001177,-0.0050024,-0.0027792,0.0023155,-0.000112,-0.0025524,0.0028523

[Zoro]

What’s the output you’re showing. Is it a certain calculator? and when you say10-12% steppe how do you figure that out?

[SharpFork]

What’s the output you’re showing. Is it a certain calculator? and when you say10-12% steppe how do you figure that out?
https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

Copy and paste source and target and go to multi and run it, the Steppe is the Yamnaya_Samara ancestry.

[Daos777]

Fully Moroccan here are my results:

Target: yo_scaled
Distance: 7.2067% / 0.07206708
63.2 Steppe
36.8 ENF

[Zoro]

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

Copy and paste source and target and go to multi and run it, the Steppe is the Yamnaya_Samara ancestry.

Ok but we need to know how you got the source and target results in the first place (a calculator’s output, g25 coordinates)??

I see the moroccan user got 62% steppe. Something doesn’t add up wouldn’t you say

[Leto]

Ok but we need to know how you got the source and target results in the first place (a calculator’s output, g25 coordinates)??

I see the moroccan user got 62% steppe. Something doesn’t add up wouldn’t you say
He is not Moroccan, he is Romanian and Ukrainian, just trolling.

[Zoro]

He is not Moroccan, he is Romanian and Ukrainian, just trolling.

Ah ok I forgot for a minute where i was lol

[Daos777]

Ok but we need to know how you got the source and target results in the first place (a calculator’s output, g25 coordinates)??

I see the moroccan user got 62% steppe. Something doesn’t add up wouldn’t you say

63 percent actually. It’s average result for half Moroccan 1/2 Romanian 1/2 Ukrainian Man.

[Zoro]

63 percent actually. It’s average result for half Moroccan 1/2 Romanian 1/2 Ukrainian Man.

That makes it even more off. Regardless we need to know how he got those results in the list

[Dick]

Fully Moroccan here are my results:

Target: yo_scaled
Distance: 7.2067% / 0.07206708
63.2 Steppe
36.8 ENF

Mashallah saba7o 7abibi

[SharpFork]

Ok but we need to know how you got the source and target results in the first place (a calculator’s output, g25 coordinates)??

I see the moroccan user got 62% steppe. Something doesn’t add up wouldn’t you say
All global25, the list from the eurogenes guy. In any case no modern sample is 60% Steppe.

[SharpFork]

That makes it even more off. Regardless we need to know how he got those results in the list
You are getting trolled, just ignore him...

[Daos777]

All global25, the list from the eurogenes guy. In any case no modern sample is 60% Steppe.

So you’re jealous of my high steppe ancestry?

[Daos777]

Mashallah saba7o 7abibi

https://youtu.be/2s7f7DSB3UM

[Zoro]

All global25, the list from the eurogenes guy. In any case no modern sample is 60% Steppe.

There’s your problem. G25 is based on coordinates from a PCA program. It’s absurd if someone tells you they can figure out directional geneflow from a PCA program.

No one in the scientific community uses a PCA based program to figure out directional geneflow. You can check any scientific paper. All it does is cluster people and even then their coordinates vary depending on which specific samples are in the run. Each sample pushes or pulls on another sample.

Figuring out how much geneflow and what direction is a very difficult problem and you often need several formal programs to try to figure it out

I’ve also heard the Eurogenes guy say his G25 is consistent with qpAdm. The 2 programs are totally different and have no relationship with each other. QpAdm focuses only on the target and couple of source populations with some outgroups and also outputs standard errors and likelihoods the model is correct. By contrast g25 has 1000s of samples in addition to the source and target that exert all sorts of pushes and pulls on the sources and target and does not output standard errors or likelihoods.

That’s why no one in their right mind uses a PCA program based coordinate system to figure out directional geneflow

[SharpFork]

There’s your problem. G25 is based on coordinates from a PCA program. It’s absurd if someone tells you they can figure out directional geneflow from a PCA program.

No one in the scientific community uses a PCA based program to figure out directional geneflow. You can check any scientific paper. All it does is cluster people and even then their coordinates vary depending on which specific samples are in the run. Each sample pushes or pulls on another sample.

Figuring out how much geneflow and what direction is a very difficult problem and you often need several formal programs to try to figure it out

I’ve also heard the Eurogenes guy say his G25 is consistent with qpAdm. The 2 programs are totally different and have no relationship with each other. QpAdm focuses only on the target and couple of source populations with some outgroups and also outputs standard errors and likelihoods the model is correct. By contrast g25 has 1000s of samples in addition to the source and target that exert all sorts of pushes and pulls on the sources and target and does not output standard errors or likelihoods.

That’s why no one in their right mind uses a PCA program based coordinate system to figure out directional geneflow
If every answer from you is "your method is wrong, use mine that says X" then don't participate in my threads or questions, you are almost as useless as the troll.

Literally everyone here uses such things and they are consistent enough while you so far have only pushed ridiculous theories I have not actually seen anywhere else, I have no reason to simply distrust any specific result just because of the methodology behind the program not being perfect.

Edit: G25 has been incredibly consistent and has almost never given ridiculous results given reasonable sources, should I for some reason just distrusts it completely and use what exactly?

Edit2: Your criticism is also kinda pointless, how can you properly asses ancestry in "recent" history without relying on history and archeology to guide you in choosing correct source populations?

[Zoro]

If every answer from you is "your method is wrong, use mine that says X" then don't participate in my threads or questions, you are almost as useless as the troll.

Literally everyone here uses such things and they are consistent enough while you so far have only pushed ridiculous theories I have not actually seen anywhere else, I have no reason to simply distrust any specific result just because of the methodology behind the program not being perfect.

Edit: G25 has been incredibly consistent and has almost never given ridiculous results given reasonable sources, should I for some reason just distrusts it completely and use what exactly?

Edit2: Your criticism is also kinda pointless, how can you properly asses ancestry in "recent" history without relying on history and archeology to guide you in choosing correct source populations?

Where did i say use mine?? If you don’t know something basic as PCA is only a clustering program and and not used for calculating Ancestry then we have nothing to discuss

[SharpFork]

Where did i say use mine?? If you don’t know something basic as PCA is only a clustering program and and not used for calculating Ancestry then we have nothing to discuss
Plenty of intelligent people use it as a proxy for ancestry and if they do right now it's good enough for me and I fully know the problem of using anachronistic samples or stupid source populations.
I don't see how the tool itself is to blame for the specific issue that some MENA people being 5-12% Steppe, maybe I'm missing some ancestral population or maybe I'm misunderstanding how the Steppe admixture spread but to simply blame the entire system for something that is maybe questionable(or not) will lead me and others to have less knowledge while we will wait for some perfect program with a methology that satisfies everyone.
But right now I'm just wondering about this specific issue, no need to discuss the nature of PCA-based programs vs others.

[Nurzat]

for Maghrebis it can be no link but CHG DNA or CHG-like DNA that Maghrebis inherited from Iberomaurusian culture population

ran their averages with Nurzat K12 World calculator:

Target: Moroccan
Distance: 0.8525% / 0.00852467
73.4 Berber
9.4 Near_Eastern
5.4 African
4.4 Southern_European
4.0 Caucasian
3.0 Western_European
0.4 Papuan

Target: Algerian
Distance: 0.8497% / 0.00849657
66.4 Berber
10.0 Southern_European
8.0 Near_Eastern
5.4 Caucasian
5.2 African
4.0 Western_European
0.8 Eastern_European
0.2 Papuan

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 1.0819% / 0.01081939
61.4 Berber
17.6 Near_Eastern
8.8 Southern_European
5.2 Caucasian
3.4 Eastern_European
3.2 African
0.4 East_Asian

Target: Libyan
Distance: 1.1508% / 0.01150755
45.0 Berber
36.0 Near_Eastern
6.0 African
5.6 Southern_European
3.8 Caucasian
3.0 Eastern_European
0.6 East_Asian

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.3144% / 0.02314445
49.8 Near_Eastern
20.8 Berber
14.6 Caucasian
7.4 Southern_European
7.0 African
0.2 East_Asian
0.2 South_Asian

[Nurzat]

then, when I remove Berber from source:

Target: Moroccan
Distance: 7.9985% / 0.07998481
45.8 Near_Eastern
31.2 Southern_European
22.6 African
0.2 Papuan
0.2 South_Asian

Target: Algerian
Distance: 7.1092% / 0.07109168
42.0 Near_Eastern
36.6 Southern_European
20.8 African
0.6 Siberian

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 6.6168% / 0.06616767
48.6 Near_Eastern
32.8 Southern_European
17.6 African
0.6 South_Asian
0.4 East_Asian

Target: Libyan
Distance: 4.9597% / 0.04959748
59.0 Near_Eastern
23.4 Southern_European
16.6 African
0.4 East_Asian
0.4 Siberian
0.2 American

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 3.1537% / 0.03153679
62.2 Near_Eastern
15.8 Southern_European
11.8 African
9.4 Caucasian
0.8 South_Asian

[Zoro]

Plenty of intelligent people use it as a proxy for ancestry and if they do right now it's good enough for me and I fully know the problem of using anachronistic samples or stupid source populations.
I don't see how the tool itself is to blame for the specific issue that some MENA people being 5-12% Steppe, maybe I'm missing some ancestral population or maybe I'm misunderstanding how the Steppe admixture spread but to simply blame the entire system for something that is maybe questionable(or not) will lead me and others to have less knowledge while we will wait for some perfect program with a methology that satisfies everyone.
But right now I'm just wondering about this specific issue, no need to discuss the nature of PCA-based programs vs others.


First you use a tool G25 which is PCA based and never intended to calculate geneflow and direction and you are puzzled that it may be giving you wrong results!! Where is the disconnect??

So merely the fact that a bunch of people are using it for something it wasn’t designed to do because it’s easy to use and they don’t know how to use the actual programs scientists use for calculating ancestry somehow makes it the right tool?

If you are really interested in finding out geneflow why not use the programs scientists actually use such as qpAdm f3 f4 Treemix? Is it my fault that you or others don’t know how to use them and try to take the lazy way out?

[Daos777]

All global25, the list from the eurogenes guy. In any case no modern sample is 60% Steppe.

Then how did I score 60 percent? I’m ancient?

[SharpFork]

First you use a tool G25 which is PCA based and never intended to calculate geneflow and direction and you are puzzled that it may be giving you wrong results!! Where is the disconnect??

So merely the fact that a bunch of people are using it for something it wasn’t designed to do because it’s easy to use and they don’t know how to use the actual programs scientists use for calculating ancestry somehow makes it the right tool?

If you are really interested in finding out geneflow why not use the programs scientists actually use such as qpAdm f3 f4 Treemix? Is it my fault that you or others don’t know how to use them and try to take the lazy way out?
Just fuck off, you don't actually know whether the results are correct or not, you didn't even check. I'm tired of your constant tirade against things you don't like and fringe theories.

[SharpFork]

for Maghrebis it can be no link but CHG DNA or CHG-like DNA that Maghrebis inherited from Iberomaurusian culture population

ran their averages with Nurzat K12 World calculator:

What do you have behind Berber?

[Zoro]

Just fuck off, you don't actually know whether the results are correct or not, you didn't even check. I'm tired of your constant tirade against things you don't like and fringe theories.

Wtf are you on. You are the one asking the question and when i try to help you by telling you your methodology is wrong because PCA or G25 is not meant for determining geneflow and it’s direction and for you to use tools specifically designed for that purpose that’s fringe theory. You using something not for its intended purpose is not fringe theory!!

When the fuck was the last time you saw a scientific paper stating

METHODOLOGY
“ we used PCA and G25 coordinates to determine ancestry in the subjects ......”

Figuring geneflow and it’s direction is not as fucking easy as you think. Use the right tools and if you’re still puzzled then we’ll talk.

Otherwise stop wasting our time

[SharpFork]

Wtf are you on. You are the one asking the question and when i try to help you by telling you your methodology is wrong because PCA or G25 is not meant for determining geneflow and it’s direction and for you to use tools specifically designed for that purpose that’s fringe theory. You using something not for its intended purpose is not fringe theory!!

When the fuck was the last time you saw a scientific paper stating

METHODOLOGY
“ we used PCA and G25 coordinates to determine ancestry in the subjects ......”

Figuring geneflow and it’s direction is not as fucking easy as you think. Use the right tools and if you’re still puzzled then we’ll talk.

Otherwise stop wasting our time
You should stop wasting oru times, you don't know shit-all whether the resutls are wrong or not, you simply barge here and push your points time and time again, they are irrelevant to the discussion until you conclusively show that the results I ahve are wrong, instead of starting the discussion by assuming they are and blaming things you dislike.

[Leto]

You should stop wasting oru times, you don't know shit-all whether the resutls are wrong or not, you simply barge here and push your points time and time again, they are irrelevant to the discussion until you conclusively show that the results I ahve are wrong, instead of starting the discussion by assuming they are and blaming things you dislike.
He is also constantly promoting calculators of Dilawer or whatever his name. I suspect that's because he also happens to be a Kurd. There is not a lot of genuine Kurdish inventions out there, is there? ;)

[SharpFork]

He is also constantly promoting calculators of Dilawer or whatever his name. I suspect that's because he also happens to be a Kurd. There is not a lot of genuine Kurdish inventions out there, is there? ;)
I care about calculators that contain more samples, if I had to use every new and upcoming calculators with far less modern and ancient samples I can get a better deal by just sticking solely to studies.

The thing is it's not a dichotomy, I can use coordinate based calculators and proof check them with studies, instead of assuming everything is wrong a priori and wait until the perfect methodology exists to answer basic question I can already answer through actual studies that exist today.

[Axios]

Don't know why, but i get 17% steppe and low ENF.