Bell Beaker England vs Bell Beaker France

[Synapsid]

Target Distance Anatolia_Barcin_N RUS_Maykop UKR_Sredny_Stog_II_En WHG
Bell_Beaker_FRA_C:I3874 0.04303478 29.6 0.0 59.6 10.8
Bell_Beaker_England:I67770.03986953 6.0 2.2 83.6 8.2

Average 0.04145216 17.8 1.1 71.6 9.5

We can infer two conclusions from the results:
1) There was greater replacement in the British Isles of the Native Farmer population compared to France
2) That Bronze Age France are more Med than the Brits but are still more NW European than SW European.

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

[J. Ketch]

Target Distance Anatolia_Barcin_N RUS_Maykop UKR_Sredny_Stog_II_En WHG
Bell_Beaker_FRA_C:I3874 0.04303478 29.6 0.0 59.6 10.8
Bell_Beaker_England:I67770.03986953 6.0 2.2 83.6 8.2

Average 0.04145216 17.8 1.1 71.6 9.5

We can infer two conclusions from the results:
1) There was greater replacement in the British Isles of the Native Farmer population compared to France
2) That Bronze Age France are more Med than the Brits but are still more NW European than SW European.

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/
Bell_Beaker_FRA is more Northern than Bell_Beaker_FRA_C from memory.


Distance to: Bell_Beaker_FRA
0.03245732 Norwegian
0.03601619 Swedish
0.03607039 Icelandic
0.03669143 Dutch
0.03731085 Shetlandic
0.03785972 Irish
0.03795518 Orcadian
0.03839421 Scottish
0.04115684 Welsh
0.04186539 English

Distance to: Bell_Beaker_FRA_C
0.02097130 French_Brittany
0.02373724 Welsh
0.02641343 English_Cornwall
0.02659356 Belgian
0.02678887 English
0.02749292 French_Nord
0.02827497 Orcadian
0.02846649 Scottish
0.02879946 French_Paris
0.02999251 German

I think it's reasonable to assume France has varied a lot since the Bell Beakers, and Northern French Beakers were similar to other Northern Beakers. You can still see the state of EBA Northern France in the Bretons with their high Steppe, and clustering more with Brits than with other French.

[Synapsid]

Bell_Beaker_FRA is more Northern than Bell_Beaker_FRA_C from memory.


Distance to: Bell_Beaker_FRA
0.03245732 Norwegian
0.03601619 Swedish
0.03607039 Icelandic
0.03669143 Dutch
0.03731085 Shetlandic
0.03785972 Irish
0.03795518 Orcadian
0.03839421 Scottish
0.04115684 Welsh
0.04186539 English

Distance to: Bell_Beaker_FRA_C
0.02097130 French_Brittany
0.02373724 Welsh
0.02641343 English_Cornwall
0.02659356 Belgian
0.02678887 English
0.02749292 French_Nord
0.02827497 Orcadian
0.02846649 Scottish
0.02879946 French_Paris
0.02999251 German

I think it's reasonable to assume France has varied a lot since the Bell Beakers, and Northern French Beakers were similar to other Northern Beakers. You can still see the state of EBA Northern France in the Bretons with their high Steppe, and clustering more with Brits than with other French.

Yeah France was extremely heterogeneous compared early Beaker Britain, Scandinavia and Northern Half of Germany. I am guessing what Changed Britain genetically in the Iron age was perhaps the influx of Gallic like people who brought Insular Celtic languages to Britain and had their greatest impact in Southern Britain while the Midlands, the Pictish areas and Ireland were less impacted?

[J. Ketch]

Yeah France was extremely heterogeneous compared early Beaker Britain, Scandinavia and Northern Half of Germany. I am guessing what Changed Britain genetically in the Iron age was perhaps the influx of Gallic like people who brought Insular Celtic languages to Britain and had their greatest impact in Southern Britain while the Midlands, the Pictish areas and Ireland were less impacted?
That's certainly how I see it, but there's still so much mystery and different opinions surrounding the Celtic question. I can't wait for these questions to be better resolved with more ancient DNA.

[Synapsid]

That's certainly how I see it, but there's still so much mystery and different opinions surrounding the Celtic question. I can't wait for these questions to be better resolved with more ancient DNA.

Perhaps there were more like Halstatt + Gallic rather than pure Gauls. How southern where southern Celtic Britons compared the Irish?

[J. Ketch]

Perhaps there were more like Halstatt + Gallic rather than pure Gauls. How southern where southern Celtic Britons compared the Irish?
I think all you have to do is look at people from Cornwall, Devon, Wales, the Welsh Borders, Cumbria and the North East to see approximately what Celtic Britons were like genetically. Southern Britons were noticeably more Southern than the Irish (2-3% more ENF), Northern Britons were probably intermediary of Irish and Southern Britons, having less recent continental input.

[Synapsid]

I think all you have to do is look at people from Cornwall, Devon, Wales, the Welsh Borders, Cumbria and the North East to see approximately what Celtic Britons were like genetically. Southern Britons were noticeably more Southern than the Irish (2-3% more ENF), Northern Britons were probably intermediary of Irish and Southern Britons, having less recent continental input.

Most people I know from Wales still look typically NW Europeans. Not southern looking folks. I know one guy from plymouth who looks kinda french.
https://www.devonlife.co.uk/people/celebrity-interviews/devon-celebrities-1-5312688
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/fame-list-20-most-famous-404923

[J. Ketch]

Most people I know from Wales still look typically NW Europeans. Not southern looking folks. I know one guy from plymouth who looks kinda french.
https://www.devonlife.co.uk/people/celebrity-interviews/devon-celebrities-1-5312688
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/fame-list-20-most-famous-404923
No doubt. They are totally NW European. More red haired than the English.

[dududud]

Most people I know from Wales still look typically NW Europeans. Not southern looking folks. I know one guy from plymouth who looks kinda french.
https://www.devonlife.co.uk/people/celebrity-interviews/devon-celebrities-1-5312688
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/fame-list-20-most-famous-404923

They looks like my father: gaulish ass fuck. Same face that neolithic man (close).

[Dick]

Most people I know from Wales still look typically NW Europeans. Not southern looking folks. I know one guy from plymouth who looks kinda french.
https://www.devonlife.co.uk/people/celebrity-interviews/devon-celebrities-1-5312688
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/fame-list-20-most-famous-404923

I know a Half Welsh/Danish guy. Oddly he took after his Welsh side 100%, curly dark hair and eyes etc, but he still looks British as fuck.