Onogur-Bulgar Gedmatch + Global25

[axlredneck]

First, I'd like to explain how I deduced that this sample is a Onogur-Bulgar (Old Great 'Bulgar').

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Giudjenov_Kubrat_and_his_sons.jpg

In the 137 ancient human genomes study (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2), I came across a medieval 'nomad' sample from the Rostov region which had significant Mongoloid ancestry. The previous inhabitants of the region - Scythians and Sarmatians - had a similar profile, but their Mongoloid ancestry was much less in comparison. The Y-DNA of the previous Sarmatians (atleast one) and this sample nevertheless matched;- which hinted at an acculturated continuity between them, and meant that this nomad wasn't a recent immigrant from other parts of Inner Asia.

This sample dates to 1400-1100 ybp, - which coincides with the period of Khazar and Magna Bulgarian domination of Pontic-Caspian steppe; both people were Turkic in origin.

I looked further for information relating to it, and in the process downloaded the Supplementary Information.

Supplementary Table 3 has condensed information on the samples used in the study; the same given below:
https://i.ibb.co/HzgR2wy/20200308-152927.jpg

According to this, all the ten medieval nomads (nine of which were found in Central steppe) were of Turkic heritage. The burial from which this sample was excavated was right in the middle of Old Great Bulgaria, far from where the initial Khazars flourished, - in much eastern locations - on the shores of Caspian Sea, in Dagestan and Astrakhan.

Old Great Bulgariahttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzy6qjkfHlcqrQxZ6A3MC7wm25QHj WuJj1u5xJCsLIDTWp41iG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Old_Great_Bulgaria_and_migration_of_Bulgarians.png/1280px-Old_Great_Bulgaria_and_migration_of_Bulgarians.png

Khazar Khaganatehttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Chasaren.jpg/1280px-Chasaren.jpg



According to this preprint (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.15.876912v1), Khazars excavated from in and around the same region had very high NE Asian (Yakut-like) ancestry, and clustered distantly with IA Scytho-Siberian cultures. This makes it clear that Khazars were migrants from Eastern Siberia, and that they weren't acculturated locals.
https://i.ibb.co/z2jWbcB/6-Screenshot-20191217-125927-Drive.jpg
https://imageup.ru/img181/3525503/autosomy2.png
https://i.ibb.co/hMNBRmb/Screenshot-20191217-230634-Drive.jpg

On a PCA with other ancient/medieval samples, this sample falls at the tail of the steppe cluster.
https://i.ibb.co/jyFqnMm/20200308-123722.jpg

For clarity, https://i.ibb.co/Lkmv9fr/Screenshot-20200308-123549-Drive.jpg

[axlredneck]

Onogur-Bulgar, DA142

Sex: Male
Y-DNA: R-Y52 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y52/)
mt-DNA: J1c5a
Period: Khazar
Age: 620 - 920 AD
Burial: Kamyshevahsky X
Region: Caspian Steppe (lower Don basin)
https://i.ibb.co/nnH7F1M/20200308-142946.jpg


Eurogenes K13 result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 25.79
2 Siberian 25.32
3 North_Atlantic 18.7
4 West_Asian 17.67
5 East_Asian 4.66
6 West_Med 3.41
7 South_Asian 2.23
8 Amerindian 1.99
9 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 14.41
2 Chuvash 18.49
3 Mari 18.88
4 Afghan_Turkmen 19.09
5 Nogay 23.33
6 Uzbeki 23.43
7 Shors 25.27
8 Aghan_Hazara 26.82
9 Kazakh 26.97
10 Hazara 28.31
11 Uygur 28.37
12 Hakas 29.32
13 Moldavian 30.64
14 Erzya 30.64
15 Kargopol_Russian 30.66
16 Tadjik 31.21
17 Kirgiz 31.23
18 Hungarian 32.3
19 Ukrainian_Lviv 32.42
20 East_Finnish 32.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.6% Tatar + 33.4% Shors @ 7.95
2 74.9% Tatar + 25.1% Altaian @ 8.31
3 70.5% Tatar + 29.5% Hakas @ 8.36
4 83.3% Tatar + 16.7% Yakut @ 8.46
5 84.7% Tatar + 15.3% Evens @ 8.58
6 84.4% Tatar + 15.6% Evenki @ 8.6
7 81% Tatar + 19% Buryat @ 8.73
8 83.3% Tatar + 16.7% Dolgan @ 8.75
9 79.3% Tatar + 20.7% Tuvinian @ 8.76
10 69.1% Tatar + 30.9% Kazakh @ 8.8
11 84% Tatar + 16% Oroqen @ 8.84
12 72.5% Tatar + 27.5% Kirgiz @ 8.89
13 83% Tatar + 17% Koryak @ 9.18
14 56.5% Mari + 43.5% Nogay @ 9.28
15 79.4% Tatar + 20.6% Mongolian @ 9.31
16 57.9% Shors + 42.1% South_Polish @ 9.35
17 51.1% Chuvash + 48.9% Afghan_Turkmen @ 9.4
18 60.4% Tatar + 39.6% Afghan_Turkmen @ 9.42
19 57% Shors + 43% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 9.53
20 65.3% Afghan_Turkmen + 34.7% East_Finnish @ 9.64


Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 updated SPS:

Distance to: Bulgar
10.82519284 Bashkir
13.64849809 Turk_Dobruja-Tatar
15.28958469 Tatar
16.64933933 Crimean_Tatar
20.73170036 Chuvash
21.36844636 Mari
21.52620496 Afghan_Turkmen
25.09354299 Karakalpak
25.83522789 Uzbeki
25.90122198 Nogay
26.21456847 Shors
27.68018605 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
28.12338706 Kazakh
28.89695140 Turk_Kardzhali-Mountaineer
29.40915164 Aghan_Hazara
29.85020770 Turk_Sliven-Alevi
29.98462273 Uygur
30.38879728 Turk_Kardzhali-Alevi
30.40091117 Hakas
30.77948180 Hazara
30.84190007 Turk_Kardzhali-South-Plain
30.90574866 Turk_Kardzhali-West
31.38376969 Turk_Kardzhali-East
31.38483073 Csango_Gymes
31.40222922 Szekely

Eurogenes K15 result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 24.13
2 Eastern_Euro 17.51
3 West_Asian 13.83
4 Baltic 13.35
5 North_Sea 11.72
6 Atlantic 9.98
7 Southeast_Asian 5.41
8 South_Asian 2.25
9 Amerindian 1.82

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 12.99
2 Afghan_Turkmen 16.54
3 Chuvash 20.1
4 Uzbeki 20.58
5 Mari 21.86
6 Nogay 22.18
7 Afghan_Hazara 23.87
8 Hazara 25.18
9 Shors 26.19
10 Uygur 26.33
11 East_Finnish 27.04
12 Kargopol_Russian 27.92
13 Erzya 28.27
14 Hakas 29.07
15 Tadjik 29.35
16 Finnish 29.71
17 Afghan_Uzbeki 30.24
18 Afghan_Tadjik 30.36
19 Moldavian 30.41
20 Croatian 31.67

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.5% Tatar + 16.5% Yakut @ 5.69
2 84.5% Tatar + 15.5% Evenki @ 5.77
3 84.9% Tatar + 15.1% Evens @ 5.82
4 83.5% Tatar + 16.5% Dolgan @ 5.96
5 83.7% Tatar + 16.3% Oroqen @ 6.01
6 80.8% Tatar + 19.2% Buryat @ 6.18
7 75.3% Tatar + 24.7% Altaian @ 6.37
8 79.2% Tatar + 20.8% Saqqaq @ 6.5
9 79.3% Tatar + 20.7% Tuvinian @ 6.54
10 82.9% Tatar + 17.1% Koryak @ 6.74
11 71.9% Tatar + 28.1% Hakas @ 6.83
12 79.4% Tatar + 20.6% Mongolian @ 7.35
13 70.4% Tatar + 29.6% Shors @ 7.6
14 83.4% Tatar + 16.6% Chukchi @ 7.81
15 79.1% Tatar + 20.9% Ket @ 7.81
16 80.5% Tatar + 19.5% Selkup @ 8.28
17 59.2% Tatar + 40.8% Afghan_Turkmen @ 8.56
18 52.5% Hakas + 47.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 9.09
19 53% Hakas + 47% South_Polish @ 9.37
20 53.2% Hakas + 46.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 9.4


MDLP K23b result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 18.1
2 East_Siberian 17.34
3 Tungus-Altaic 12.65
4 Ancestral_Altaic 11.62
5 South_Central_Asian 11.52
6 European_Early_Farmers 11.2
7 Caucasian 9.62
8 Arctic 2.92
9 Melano_Polynesian 1.41
10 Paleo_Siberian 1.24
11 Austronesian 1.1
12 Amerindian 1.04
13 African_Pygmy 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bashkir ( ) 14.11
2 Tatar-Siberian ( ) 14.73
3 Saami_Finland ( ) 18.43
4 Saami ( ) 18.5
5 Mari ( ) 19.34
6 Kazahs ( ) 20.73
7 Chuvashs ( ) 21.16
8 Udmurd ( ) 21.54
9 Turkmen_Afghan ( ) 21.59
10 Yukagir_Forest ( ) 21.6
11 Chuvash ( ) 21.97
12 Saami_Kola ( ) 22.28
13 Uygur-Han ( ) 22.67
14 Uzbek ( ) 22.8
15 Tatar ( ) 23.09
16 Komi ( ) 23.37
17 Karakalpak ( ) 23.52
18 Kazakh ( ) 24.02
19 Uygur ( ) 24.09
20 Hazara ( ) 24.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 15.2% Basque_French ( ) @ 7.83
2 84.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 15.3% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 7.93
3 82.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 17.2% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 8.05
4 81.2% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 18.8% French_South ( ) @ 8.84
5 86.4% Bashkir ( ) + 13.6% Basque_French ( ) @ 8.89
6 86.3% Bashkir ( ) + 13.7% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 9.05
7 80.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.3% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 9.32
8 80.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.3% Spanish_Aragon_IBS ( ) @ 9.33
9 85% Bashkir ( ) + 15% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 9.51
10 80.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.2% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 9.55
11 80.9% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.1% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 9.76
12 73.2% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 26.8% Orcadian ( ) @ 9.78
13 51.6% Hakas ( ) + 48.4% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 9.83
14 56.2% Hakas ( ) + 43.8% Irish ( ) @ 9.86
15 80.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.2% Spanish_Andalucia_IBS ( ) @ 9.89
16 73.1% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 26.9% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 9.96
17 80% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 20% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 9.97
18 79.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 20.3% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) @ 10
19 55.6% Hakas ( ) + 44.4% Dutch ( ) @ 10
20 86.3% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 13.7% Sardinian ( ) @ 10.07

HarappaWorld result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 31.01
2 Siberian 21.35
3 NE-Asian 12.56
4 Baloch 12.16
5 Caucasian 9.39
6 Mediterranean 7.3
7 Beringian 3.26
8 American 1.5
9 S-Indian 0.62
10 W-African 0.53
11 Papuan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 uzbek (behar) 20.15
2 chuvash (behar) 20.64
3 kazakh (harappa) 23.32
4 uyghur (hgdp) 25.97
5 hazara (hgdp) 26.91
6 kyrgyz (xing) 27.73
7 nogai (yunusbayev) 28.77
8 kyrgyz (hodoglugil) 29.01
9 altaian (rasmussen) 30.23
10 tajik (yunusbayev) 30.3
11 romanian-a (behar) 32.27
12 hungarian (behar) 33.32
13 mordovian (yunusbayev) 33.39
14 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 33.43
15 turkmen (yunusbayev) 33.47
16 slovenian (xing) 33.9
17 selkup (rasmussen) 34.14
18 ukranian (yunusbayev) 35.63
19 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 35.69
20 russian (hgdp) 35.71

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.2% chuvash (behar) + 46.8% kazakh (harappa) @ 4.93
2 57% chuvash (behar) + 43% hazara (hgdp) @ 5.55
3 57.8% chuvash (behar) + 42.2% kyrgyz (xing) @ 5.73
4 54.2% altaian (rasmussen) + 45.8% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 5.74
5 58.9% chuvash (behar) + 41.1% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) @ 5.78
6 50.7% uzbek (behar) + 49.3% chuvash (behar) @ 5.97
7 59.4% kazakh (harappa) + 40.6% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 6.4
8 53% altaian (rasmussen) + 47% slovenian (xing) @ 6.42
9 52.6% altaian (rasmussen) + 47.4% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 6.57
10 56.3% chuvash (behar) + 43.7% uyghur (hgdp) @ 6.74
11 52.5% altaian (rasmussen) + 47.5% hungarian (behar) @ 6.79
12 61.2% kazakh (harappa) + 38.8% russian (hgdp) @ 7.06
13 54.9% kyrgyz (xing) + 45.1% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 7.12
14 56.1% altaian (rasmussen) + 43.9% russian (behar) @ 7.12
15 57% altaian (rasmussen) + 43% belorussian (behar) @ 7.14
16 61.2% kazakh (harappa) + 38.8% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 7.42
17 66.2% chuvash (behar) + 33.8% mongolian (rasmussen) @ 7.52
18 62.9% kazakh (harappa) + 37.1% russian (behar) @ 7.58
19 53.7% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) + 46.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 7.74
20 60.5% chuvash (behar) + 39.5% altaian (rasmussen) @ 7.82

Vahaduo HarappaWorld updated SPS:

Distance to: Bulgar
4.82819842 Bashkir
17.35919065 Tatar
22.08035099 uzbek
22.54370200 chuvash
24.37796956 turkmen-afghanistan
25.17927521 kazakh
28.12471867 uyghur
29.32538832 hazara
29.94548714 kyrgyz2
31.30276026 kyrgyz1
31.91800119 nogai
32.27293603 pamiri-rushan
32.40267119 altaian
32.81776805 pamiri-shughnan
32.96583990 tajik
33.42094254 tajik-nw-afghanistan
33.42829490 uzbek-afghanistan
33.74819995 yaghnobi
34.16379663 serbian
34.49504892 romanian-a
35.53066281 hungarian
35.73909064 selkup
35.78797424 pamiri-ishkashim
35.85458827 bulgarian
36.07435377 singapore-indian-d

Global25 result:
https://i.ibb.co/tBjqPXw/20200308-150204.jpg

[Jana]

Great thread! If this is indeed Bulgar, his genetic profile is very similar to Magyar conquerors, who also come closest to Bashkirs and Tatars according to last paper on them.
I always suspected there was connection between the two.

[axlredneck]

Great thread! If this is indeed Bulgar, his genetic profile is very similar to Magyar conquerors, who also come closest to Bashkirs and Tatars according to last paper on them.
I always suspected there was connection between the two.

Indeed!

[Kaspias]

Nice find!


https://i.ibb.co/tBjqPXw/20200308-150204.jpg

That's my Turkic admixture :D

Distance to: Kaspias-Turkic
0.11311023 Bashkir
0.11527744 Tatar_Siberian
0.12075092 Uzbek
0.12710239 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.12989701 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.13009948 Nogai
0.13324712 Turkmen
0.13469246 Uygur
0.13800402 Hazara
0.14270297 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.14308569 Karakalpak
0.14883822 Yukagir_Forest
0.15485993 Udmurt
0.15744596 Tatar_Lipka
0.15875851 Tubalar
0.16120746 Besermyan
0.16843667 Kazakh
0.17111833 Tajik
0.17150055 Shor_Mountain
0.17202217 Mansi
0.17282107 Shor_Khakassia
0.17287921 Tatar_Kazan
0.17355490 Tlingit
0.17609774 Shor
0.17695017 Chuvash

[axlredneck]

Nice find!





Wow!

[Ion Basescul]

Interesting, apparently it has a better pull than the Gokturk/Cuman from the same period for a lot of people. You might be onto something.

https://i.imgur.com/MxQMG74.png

[Sora]

Nice! :thumb001: :o

[Leto]

Very interesting. His Mongoloid ancestry seems to match that of modern Volga Tatars and Chuvash. Or at least close to them. We don't know what kind of groups the Bulgars found in the Volga basin. But this sample is already heavily European.

[axlredneck]

Interesting, apparently it has a better pull than the Gokturk/Cuman from the same period for a lot of people. You might be onto something.

Nice ;);)


Nice! :thumb001: :o

Thanks :)

[axlredneck]

Likely Y-DNA lineages of Bulgars:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-Y15849/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F1096/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y934/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2124/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-M2058/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Z1936/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-PH1612/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Y13850/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-L30/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-L1266/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z6653/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2108/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L26/

Árpád Royals
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS1460/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP451/ (=> Béla III)

Ps. These are Hungarian Conquerors' eastern lineages.

[Thracian]

Can you also post his G25 coordinates?

[axlredneck]

Can you also post his G25 coordinates?

Scaled:
RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754

[andre]

Scaled:
RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754

Do you know the khazars coordinates too?

[axlredneck]

Do you know the khazars coordinates too?

Oh, no!
I guess they'd be like Shors, or other South Siberian people.

[Kaspias]

Clustering

Green = Asian part of Half Hunnic Gepid and DEU_MA samples
Red = Turkic subtractions of 4 Balkan Turks, including I and Deniz
Brown = DA142

https://i.ibb.co/5KVb6TK/x.jpg

[Leto]

Oh, no!
I guess they'd be like Shors, or other South Siberian people.
Post the Bulgar Dodecad 12b components please.

[axlredneck]

Very interesting. His Mongoloid ancestry seems to match that of modern Volga Tatars and Chuvash. Or at least close to them. We don't know what kind of groups the Bulgars found in the Volga basin. But this sample is already heavily European.

Going by Harappa scores ('cause it gives best fit with Bashkir), I'd say it's more Bashkir-like, and they're very eastern shifted on an Altaic cline compared to Tatars!
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/17-uralic-cline-ugric.jpg

[Leto]

Yep, the Bashkir Mongoloid (8 or 9 samples)

Siberian 21.66
NE-Asian 11.6
Beringian 4.58
SE-Asian 0.92

[axlredneck]

Post the Bulgar Dodecad 12b components please.

Population
Gedrosia 9.84 Pct
Siberian 22.51 Pct
Northwest_African 0.06 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 10.67 Pct
North_European 32.10 Pct
South_Asian 0.53 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian -
East_Asian 15.08 Pct
Caucasus 8.91 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.30 Pct

[axlredneck]

But this sample is already heavily European.

As explained in the OP already, I don't think Bulgars were a South Siberian-like population to begin with, with 70-80% East-Asian/Siberian ancestry. They were a West Eurasian population with significant Mongoloid ancestry.
Going by Kaspias' clustering chart/tree(or whatever) we can say that such ancestry was native to the Steppes from Iron age.

[axlredneck]

Likely Y-DNA lineages of Bulgars

Information relating to the mt-DNA of Hungarian Conquerors - who were Bulgars or Bulgar-like people.

Source: Mitogenomic data indicate admixture components of Central-Inner Asian and Srubnaya origin in the conquering Hungarians (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205920)

ABSTRACT:

Our results show that the Conquerors assembled from various nomadic groups of the Eurasian steppe. Population genetic results indicate that they had closest connection to the Onogur-Bulgar ancestors of Volga Tatars. Phylogenetic results reveal that more than one third of the Conqueror maternal lineages were derived from Central-Inner Asia and their most probable ultimate sources were the Asian Scythians and Asian Huns, giving support to the Hungarian Hun tradition. The rest of the lineages most likely originated from the Bronze Age Potapovka-Poltavka-Srubnaya cultures of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Available data imply that the Conquerors did not have a major contribution to the gene pool of the Carpathian Basin.

RESULTS:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205920.g005https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205920.t001

From the Conqueror population Volga Tatars have the smallest overall distance with both methods (Table 1, all 102 samples), and accordingly they are positioned very close on the MDS plot implying closest genetic relation at the population level.

1. Other possible admix components may include 9–26% Volga Tatars, Poltavka-Potapovka, Sintastha and Combed Ware populations. Thus MITOMIX principally derives East Eurasian Conqueror lineages from Tuvans, Belarusians and Volga Tatars, though latter two are located now in Europe. Belarusians comprise 22% Lipka Tatars in our dataset [52], who arrived to Europe after the Conquerors’ era, but seemingly with similar Hg-s.

2. Main admixture components of Volga Tatars are 24–46% Conquerors, 20–50% Russians, 16–30% Mansis+Khantys (Yug) and 9–18% Norvegians (S5F Table).

3. Belarusians come to play just because of their similar European and Lipka Tatar components, while Volga Tatars still harbor a salient Conqueror like subpopulation consisting of both eastern and western lineages (S5F Table,Table 1). Thus MITOMIX confirms the direct genetic relation to Volga Tatars, detected by both Fst and SHD, and this relation must be closest in time.


Relation to Volga Tatars

Our data testify closest genetic relation to this modern population. Volga Tatars incorporate three main ethnic components [53]; the Volga Bulgars, which arrived in the 8th century, and intermingled with local Scythian and Finno-Ugric populations, then in the 13th century Kipchak Tatars of the Golden Horde brought a final Central-Inner Asian genetic layer and their language to the region. MITOMIX seems to identify these historical components, as Finno-Ugric Mansis and Khantys (Yug) comprise a major component of Volga Tatars besides Russians, while Scythians also appear among their potential sources (S5F Table). Our remarkable result is that the Conquerors seem to provide a predominant (26–41%) component of Volga Tatars (S5F Table), while the opposite value is significantly lower (9–26%; S5A Table). This asymmetry is due to the absence of some Tatar components, like Finno-Ugric ones, from the Conquerors. Thus our data indicate that rather Volga Tatars harbor a “Conqueror like” genetic component than the opposite, which may be linked historically to the Volga Bulgars.

This assumption is well supported by archaeological, anthropological and historical sources; Volga Bulgars were one of the few groups which had the same partial horse burial customs [54] and similar grave goods as the Conquerors. Both groups are characterized by similar anthropological types [55], and practiced identical symbolic trepanation customs [56] which is documented with such a high frequency just among the related Danube Bulgars [57]. Historical data link both groups to the Onogurs [58], the Conquerors must have belonged to the Onogur tribal union, as the name “Hungarian” is derived from “Onogur” [5,59]. Historical sources imply that ruling dynasties of both groups might be traced back to the Hun ruling dynasty [60]. Taken together the direct genetic relation of the Conquerors to Onogur-Bulgar ancestors of Volga Tatars is very feasible.

[Leto]

As explained in the OP already, I don't think Bulgars were a South Siberian-like population to begin with, with 70-80% East-Asian/Siberian ancestry. They were a West Eurasian population with significant Mongoloid ancestry.
Going by Kaspias' clustering chart/tree(or whatever) we can say that such ancestry was native to the Steppes from Iron age.
Are there any decent G25 models for him?

By the way, it's nice he was an aR1an too :cool:

[axlredneck]

Are there any decent G25 models for him?

By the way, it's nice he was an aR1an too :cool:

I haven't modelled him yet. Will try tomorrow.

[axlredneck]

Information relating to the mt-DNA of Tatars.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4fyGtwWJTMI/UKpNK618KvI/AAAAAAAAHd4/3X5GQF0efE8/s1600/preironage.pnghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k1IjPrySLkI/UKpQDf0O_3I/AAAAAAAAHe0/aOeYkVyPI6g/s1600/ironage.png

TA2 = Tatars

[Speedy Freedy]

Going by Harappa scores ('cause it gives best fit with Bashkir), I'd say it's more Bashkir-like, and they're very eastern shifted on an Altaic cline compared to Tatars!
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/17-uralic-cline-ugric.jpg

Where would Siberian Tatars be with Harappa?

[bained]

Likely Y-DNA lineages of Bulgars:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-Y15849/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F1096/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y934/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2124/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-M2058/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Z1936/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-PH1612/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Y13850/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-L30/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-L1266/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z6653/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2108/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L26/

Árpád Royals
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS1460/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP451/ (=> Béla III)

Ps. These are Hungarian Conquerors' eastern lineages.


What a bunch of horseshit. You fall into the usual closed circular logic that every turanist spins. First you assume Bulgars are turkic, then you claim specific lineages for them, then you fail to provide any facts or material culture, so you invent "oh they just died out lol". And to confirm your statement, the sample doesn't even match Bulgarians. You picked a random sample, and because it has asian then it has to be Bulgar. Why? Because. As far as I remember, the Khazars were always turkic, called themselves turkic and were vivid Bulgar haters, even #rekt their old great country. Same mutual feelings were shared with the Avars, who ceased to exist because of Bulgars. Is this another episode of how they worshiped Tangra, even that there is not a single writing, rock, mention or whatever of Tangra and that Tangra was not even a major god back then?

The males in Bulgaria with these Y-haplomemes are probably less than 20 in total. Wonder how the country survived for 1300 years, if it was totally replaced and please, stop with the usual crap of classes: The Bulgar Bourgeoisie and the oppressed proletarian Slavs, who thru sheer intelligence, farming and other hippie shit, managed to overthrow them. You even excluded the chief of the Magyar study, which is I2 and is closest 2 modern Bulgarians.

It's so frustrating to see how everybody falls into the same scenario every time Bulgarians are discussed, without following history or politics: 1. if we need them, they are brother slavs 2. if they don't do what we tell them, they are tatar turkic bulgars. 3. Some weed infested autochthonous thinker.

Please guys, its all so tiresome.

[ioan assen]

What a bunch of horseshit. You fall into the usual closed circular logic that every turanist spins. First you assume Bulgars are turkic, then you claim specific lineages for them, then you fail to provide any facts or material culture, so you invent "oh they just died out lol". And to confirm your statement, the sample doesn't even match Bulgarians. You picked a random sample, and because it has asian then it has to be Bulgar. Why? Because. As far as I remember, the Khazars were always turkic, called themselves turkic and were vivid Bulgar haters, even #rekt their old great country. Same mutual feelings were shared with the Avars, who ceased to exist because of Bulgars. Is this another episode of how they worshiped Tangra, even that there is not a single writing, rock, mention or whatever of Tangra and that Tangra was not even a major god back then?

The males in Bulgaria with these Y-haplomemes are probably less than 20 in total. Wonder how the country survived for 1300 years, if it was totally replaced and please, stop with the usual crap of classes: The Bulgar Bourgeoisie and the oppressed proletarian Slavs, who thru sheer intelligence, farming and other hippie shit, managed to overthrow them. You even excluded the chief of the Magyar study, which is I2 and is closest 2 modern Bulgarians.

It's so frustrating to see how everybody falls into the same scenario every time Bulgarians are discussed, without following history or politics: 1. if we need them, they are brother slavs 2. if they don't do what we tell them, they are tatar turkic bulgars. 3. Some weed infested autochthonous thinker.

Please guys, its all so tiresome.
The sample is from Volga Bulgaria, right? So it might be plausible, because the Bulgars that went there from Ukraine (Old Great Bulgaria) also mixed with Turkics, Ugrofinns, Mongols etc. Just like the Bulgars, who established Danube Bulgaria mixed with Slavs and Romanized/Hellenized Thracians. In 11 century those two populations had almost zero between themselves.

[axlredneck]

Where would Siberian Tatars be with Harappa?

They'd be right behind the Bashkirs, whereas the Zabolotniye Tatars would fall in the Samoyedic cline.

[Pubiczar]

Great job...
Also, you can see that in that clustering tree by Kaspias that this 'Bulgar' is west euroasian and clusters with IA Scythians.
Imo, this sample is an example of Iranic-Turkic symbiosis.
Probably many of the Iranic and Turkic words in the modern Bulgarian language were brought directly from the old Bulgars.

I am also positive that it was in Old Great Bulgaria that many non Bulgar lineages we're Incorporated in the Bulgar nation such as I-Z17855. This lineages thereafter shows spread typical for the Bulgar expansion in the Balkans. Something similar to I2a lineages found among the Magyar conquerors.

[Pubiczar]

Double

[Bosniensis]

Great job...
Also, you can see that in that clustering tree by Kaspias that this 'Bulgar' is west euroasian and clusters with IA Scythians.
Imo, this sample is an example of Iranic-Turkic symbiosis.
Probably many of the Iranic and Turkic words in the modern Bulgarian language were brought directly from the old Bulgars.

I am also positive that it was in Old Great Bulgaria that many non Bulgar lineages we're Incorporated in the Bulgar nation such as I-Z17855. This lineages thereafter shows spread typical for the Bulgar expansion in the Balkans. Something similar to I2a lineages found among the Magyar conquerors.

Magyar rulers are confirmed R1a through Arpad y-dna test.

I2 are just enslaved populace unfortunately xD

[Pubiczar]

Magyar rulers are confirmed R1a through Arpad y-dna test.

I2 are just enslaved populace unfortunately xD

That's a typical nonsense spew by you.

In fact, the I2a guys among the Magyars were the leaders with the richest burials. That doesn't sound much as an enslaved nation?

I2a among Magyars and Bulgars ended up probably through alliance among different tribes, at the end the etnonyms like Magyar and Bulgar prevailed over the other ethnonyms because of their popularity and prestige.

[Pubiczar]

Double

[PAGANE]

Seal of Tervel 700-721, son of *****uh and grandson of Kubrat.
Omurtagh 814 to 831 g., Miniature from the chronicle of John Skylitsa, 11th century.
Does anyone see Mongoloids?
http://www.desant.net/files/news/2017/10/16/tn/150814263943856.jpghttps://cache2.24chasa.bg/Images/Cache/966/Image_6379966_500_0.jpg

[axlredneck]

Where would Siberian Tatars be with Harappa?

https://i.ibb.co/8dnTg47/Screenshot-20200309-105535-Drive.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9tpZBnL/Screenshot-20200309-105442-Drive.jpg

Tts = Siberian Tatars
Ttz = Tatar Zabototniye (a subgroup of Siberian Tatars of Khanty-Mansi origin)
Bsn, Bsc, BSs = Bashkirs - north, central and south.

[axlredneck]

Seal of Tervel 700-721, son of *****uh and grandson of Kubrat.
Omurtagh 814 to 831 g., Miniature from the chronicle of John Skylitsa, 11th century.
Does anyone see Mongoloids?
http://www.desant.net/files/news/2017/10/16/tn/150814263943856.jpghttps://cache2.24chasa.bg/Images/Cache/966/Image_6379966_500_0.jpg

Was he a pure unmixed Bulgar?

[Turul Karom]

Lots of Hungarian results (Hungarian, Székely, Csángó) that shows Turkic ancestry of Hungarians today!

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = axlredneck; 6547496] Той беше чист несмесен булгар? [/ ЦИТОВЕ]
In fact, little is known in historical science about the mothers of rulers. But even if we assume that the fathers were Mongoloid and the mothers were not, then Mongoloidism cannot be hidden. Moreover, no information from a Latin, Byzantine, Arabic or other medieval source describes them as people of a specific kind other than European. They are more likely to be of Indo-Iranian origin, but to a lesser extent influenced by Mongoloidism, since they were under the power of the Avar Haganate until 630 AD. From the east were the Central Asian tribes, and from the west the Slavs - as a general plan

[axlredneck]

[QUOTE = axlredneck; 6547496] Той беше чист несмесен булгар? [/ ЦИТОВЕ]
In fact, little is known in historical science about the mothers of rulers. But even if we assume that the fathers were Mongoloid and the mothers were not, then Mongoloidism cannot be hidden. Moreover, no information from a Latin, Byzantine, Arabic or other medieval source describes them as people of a specific kind other than European. They are more likely to be of Indo-Iranian origin, but to a lesser extent influenced by Mongoloidism, since they were under the power of the Avar Haganate until 630 AD. From the east were the Central Asian tribes, and from the west the Slavs - as a general plan

Gosh!
1. He's a WEST EURASIAN!
2. He ain't from Mongolia or China.
3. Marry a Tatar or Bashkir, and going by the looks of your future offspring, decide whether or not this sample is a Bulgar!

[PAGANE]

[Цитат = axlredneck; 6547565] Gosh!
1. Той е ЗАПАДЕН Евразийски!
2. Той не е от Монголия или Китай.
3. Ожени се за татарин или башкир и, като погледнеш погледите на бъдещото си потомство, прецени дали тази проба е булгарка! [/ ЦИТО]
It can be bulgar, but it can be avar or khazar. Much depends on the exact date, funeral practice, archeological inventory

[axlredneck]

[Цитат = axlredneck; 6547565] Gosh!
1. Той е ЗАПАДЕН Евразийски!
2. Той не е от Монголия или Китай.
3. Ожени се за татарин или башкир и, като погледнеш погледите на бъдещото си потомство, прецени дали тази проба е булгарка! [/ ЦИТО]
It can be bulgar, but it can be avar or khazar. Much depends on the exact date, funeral practice, archeological inventory

If this guy was an Avar, he'd score like this => https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316363-Proto-Avar-Gedmatch-Global25

If this guy was a Khazar, he'd still be like the Avars, - only with significant Caucasoid admixture. Although there are 3 outliers that score differently.
https://imageup.ru/img181/3525503/autosomy2.png

[Leto]

I wonder what could be the source of his European ancestry, it's more intriguing than Mongoloid which is obviously South Siberian and Inner Asian.

[Voskos]

What's his G25 coordinates?

[Thracian]

What's his G25 coordinates?

Scaled:
RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754

[Voskos]

Distance to: RUS_Nomad_MA
0.03212139 Bashkir
0.05639047 Tatar_Siberian
0.07017485 Uzbek
0.08036237 Nogai
0.08096285 Tatar_Lipka
0.08301480 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.08709085 Turkmen
0.09523950 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.09881207 Yukagir_Forest
0.09951208 Uygur
0.10136670 Udmurt
0.10218711 Besermyan
0.10262107 Hazara
0.10407308 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.10679699 Karakalpak
0.11450107 Tatar_Kazan
0.11961713 Chuvash
0.12297903 Saami
0.12865322 Tlingit
0.12866342 Mari
0.13238353 Tubalar
0.13899421 Tajik
0.14080417 Kazakh
0.14507332 Tatar_Mishar
0.14511253 Komi
0.14717504 Mansi
0.14874993 Shor_Mountain
0.15230045 Shor_Khakassia
0.15258529 Shor
0.15492571 Maori
0.15778620 Khanty
0.16249690 Tajik_Shugnan
0.16336470 Burusho
0.16353112 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.16595433 Tajik_Rushan
0.16647456 Ket
0.16966047 Khakass
0.17007077 Kho_Singanali
0.17319197 Turkish_South
0.17462963 Greenlander_West
0.17585109 Turkish_Balikesir
0.17957307 Turkish_North
0.18009292 Turkish_Southwest
0.18128073 Turkish_Aydin
0.18144993 Kirghiz
0.18203708 Turkish_Northwest
0.18432795 Jatt_Pathak
0.18592288 Pashtun
0.18608078 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.18633516 Ror
0.18831384 Uthmankhel
0.18894787 Russian_Pinega
0.19103017 Tarkalani
0.19125554 Yusufzai
0.19227900 Kashmiri_Pandit
0.19291981 Kohistani
0.19487922 Kalash
0.19684921 Vepsian
0.19700353 Kamboj
0.19718678 Mordovian
0.19785181 Roma_Balkans
0.19905078 Abazin
0.20040933 Punjabi_Jatt
0.20073092 Roma_Bilbao
0.20088790 Finnish_East
0.20145092 Karelian
0.20160670 Khatri
0.20180504 Kabardin
0.20193549 Roma_Granada
0.20369911 Cherkes
0.20423838 Karachay
0.20434146 Roma_Porto
0.20511369 Russian_Kostroma
0.20537373 Turkish_Balkans
0.20578619 Kumyk
0.20583177 Balkar
0.20591648 Circassian
0.20827786 Turkish_Central
0.20944646 Khakass_Kachins
0.20984725 Roma_Madrid
0.21068411 Sindhi
0.21156300 Altaian
0.21166884 Gujar_Pakistan
0.21202073 Turkish_Istanbul
0.21252941 Ingrian
0.21295570 Finnish
0.21407715 Brahmin_Gujarat
0.21421657 Roma_Barcelona
0.21468171 North_Ossetian
0.21483358 Brahmin_West_Bengal
0.21635159 Gujar_India
0.21635426 Turkish_Adana
0.21694243 Parsi_Pakistan
0.21760262 Parsi_India
0.21809559 Cossack_Kuban
0.21903516 Azeri_Dagestan
0.22004845 Azeri
0.22069543 Lak
0.22102824 Darginian
0.22144490 Tabasaran
0.22155117 Avar
0.22183895 Ingushian
0.22305455 Kaitag
0.22309943 Turkish_Kayseri
0.22321635 Brahui
0.22332062 Selkup
0.22372253 Kshatriya
0.22396597 Balochi
0.22448053 Azeri_Turkey
0.22453286 Chechen
0.22613284 Russian_Tver
0.22654537 Kubachinian
0.22719638 Adygei
0.22730885 Iranian_Bandari
0.22745180 Iranian_Seyyed
0.22875726 Iranian_Fars
0.22940995 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
0.22948245 Moldavian_o
0.22962650 Ossetian
0.23103070 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
0.23152761 Russian_Kursk
0.23262353 Makrani
0.23308337 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.23367182 Brahmin_Manipuri
0.23374443 Iyer
0.23399965 Russian_Orel
0.23758548 Greenlander_East
0.23758856 Russian_Voronez
0.23767374 Nenets
0.23791419 Hungarian
0.23845284 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.23886191 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.23888849 Ukrainian
0.24053122 Estonian
0.24137719 Gagauz
0.24154345 Ezid
0.24169693 Romanian
0.24217787 Russian_Smolensk
0.24219326 Bengali_Bangladesh
0.24226191 Croatian
0.24234177 Iranian_Lor
0.24235085 Bulgarian
0.24243406 Punjabi_Lahore
0.24258986 Slovakian
0.24302338 Bosnian
0.24310341 Czech
0.24313049 Norwegian
0.24314947 Dutch
0.24320564 Austrian
0.24321917 Swedish
0.24342809 Belarusian
0.24375683 Slovenian
0.24394890 Polish
0.24401843 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.24428073 Moldavian
0.24470720 Montenegrin
0.24498253 Kanjar
0.24504740 Serbian
0.24623700 Greek_Thrace
0.24625918 Kol
0.24671801 Orcadian
0.24674658 Lithuanian_PA
0.24697558 Scottish
0.24723357 Shetlandic
0.24740859 Kurdish
0.24766122 German
0.24802636 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.24816957 German_East
0.24838506 Icelandic
0.24844702 Belgian
0.24860365 Irish
0.24905880 Gujarati
0.24940691 Macedonian
0.24968982 English
0.24981690 Kamboj_o
0.24988032 Lithuanian_VA
0.24991800 French_Alsace
0.25002492 Dharkar
0.25028280 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.25051364 French_Nord
0.25079827 French_Brittany
0.25085188 Lithuanian_RA
0.25090701 Welsh
0.25097542 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.25144570 Swiss_German
0.25145954 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.25150452 Abkhasian
0.25283590 English_Cornwall
0.25320214 Lithuanian_VZ
0.25324968 Latvian
0.25331707 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.25359149 Swiss_Italian
0.25364647 French_Paris
0.25379520 Albanian
0.25404079 Italian_Northeast
0.25414430 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.25418320 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.25426002 Mongolian
0.25475248 French_Provence
0.25492268 Sorb_Niederlausitz

[axlredneck]

I wonder what could be the source of his European ancestry, it's more intriguing than Mongoloid which is obviously South Siberian and Inner Asian.

"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 2.5572,
"Shor": 55.83,
"Mordovian": 27.5,
"Chechen": 16.67

"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 2.3791,
"Altaian": 48.33,
"Mordovian": 33.33,
"Chechen": 18.33

I'm trying other models; will share 'em later.

[axlredneck]

"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 2.2465,
"Altaian": 47.5,
"Vepsian": 30.83,
"Chechen": 21.67

Best Model so far:
"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 1.8952,
"Tubalar": 57.5,
"Mordovian": 25,
"Chechen": 17.5

[Leto]

Gosh!
1. He's a WEST EURASIAN!
2. He ain't from Mongolia or China.
3. Marry a Tatar or Bashkir, and going by the looks of your future offspring, decide whether or not this sample is a Bulgar!
He scores more North European than modern Bulgarians. Oh the irony;) :rolleyes:

[Leto]

"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 2.2465,
"Altaian": 47.5,
"Vepsian": 30.83,
"Chechen": 21.67

Best Model so far:
"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 1.8952,
"Tubalar": 57.5,
"Mordovian": 25,
"Chechen": 17.5
So we need an Altaic Caucasian Finno-Ugric mix to recreate that population :cool:

[axlredneck]

He scores more North European than modern Bulgarians. Oh the irony;) :rolleyes:

:eusa_shifty::eusa_shifty:

[Kmakkmak]

Onogur-Bulgar, DA142

Sex: Male
Y-DNA: R-Y52 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y52/)
mt-DNA: J1c5a
Period: Khazar
Age: 620 - 920 AD
Burial: Kamyshevahsky X
Region: Caspian Steppe (lower Don basin)
https://i.ibb.co/nnH7F1M/20200308-142946.jpg


Eurogenes K13 result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 25.79
2 Siberian 25.32
3 North_Atlantic 18.7
4 West_Asian 17.67
5 East_Asian 4.66
6 West_Med 3.41
7 South_Asian 2.23
8 Amerindian 1.99
9 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 14.41
2 Chuvash 18.49
3 Mari 18.88
4 Afghan_Turkmen 19.09
5 Nogay 23.33
6 Uzbeki 23.43
7 Shors 25.27
8 Aghan_Hazara 26.82
9 Kazakh 26.97
10 Hazara 28.31
11 Uygur 28.37
12 Hakas 29.32
13 Moldavian 30.64
14 Erzya 30.64
15 Kargopol_Russian 30.66
16 Tadjik 31.21
17 Kirgiz 31.23
18 Hungarian 32.3
19 Ukrainian_Lviv 32.42
20 East_Finnish 32.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.6% Tatar + 33.4% Shors @ 7.95
2 74.9% Tatar + 25.1% Altaian @ 8.31
3 70.5% Tatar + 29.5% Hakas @ 8.36
4 83.3% Tatar + 16.7% Yakut @ 8.46
5 84.7% Tatar + 15.3% Evens @ 8.58
6 84.4% Tatar + 15.6% Evenki @ 8.6
7 81% Tatar + 19% Buryat @ 8.73
8 83.3% Tatar + 16.7% Dolgan @ 8.75
9 79.3% Tatar + 20.7% Tuvinian @ 8.76
10 69.1% Tatar + 30.9% Kazakh @ 8.8
11 84% Tatar + 16% Oroqen @ 8.84
12 72.5% Tatar + 27.5% Kirgiz @ 8.89
13 83% Tatar + 17% Koryak @ 9.18
14 56.5% Mari + 43.5% Nogay @ 9.28
15 79.4% Tatar + 20.6% Mongolian @ 9.31
16 57.9% Shors + 42.1% South_Polish @ 9.35
17 51.1% Chuvash + 48.9% Afghan_Turkmen @ 9.4
18 60.4% Tatar + 39.6% Afghan_Turkmen @ 9.42
19 57% Shors + 43% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 9.53
20 65.3% Afghan_Turkmen + 34.7% East_Finnish @ 9.64


Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 updated SPS:

Distance to: Bulgar
10.82519284 Bashkir
13.64849809 Turk_Dobruja-Tatar
15.28958469 Tatar
16.64933933 Crimean_Tatar
20.73170036 Chuvash
21.36844636 Mari
21.52620496 Afghan_Turkmen
25.09354299 Karakalpak
25.83522789 Uzbeki
25.90122198 Nogay
26.21456847 Shors
27.68018605 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
28.12338706 Kazakh
28.89695140 Turk_Kardzhali-Mountaineer
29.40915164 Aghan_Hazara
29.85020770 Turk_Sliven-Alevi
29.98462273 Uygur
30.38879728 Turk_Kardzhali-Alevi
30.40091117 Hakas
30.77948180 Hazara
30.84190007 Turk_Kardzhali-South-Plain
30.90574866 Turk_Kardzhali-West
31.38376969 Turk_Kardzhali-East
31.38483073 Csango_Gymes
31.40222922 Szekely

Eurogenes K15 result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 24.13
2 Eastern_Euro 17.51
3 West_Asian 13.83
4 Baltic 13.35
5 North_Sea 11.72
6 Atlantic 9.98
7 Southeast_Asian 5.41
8 South_Asian 2.25
9 Amerindian 1.82

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 12.99
2 Afghan_Turkmen 16.54
3 Chuvash 20.1
4 Uzbeki 20.58
5 Mari 21.86
6 Nogay 22.18
7 Afghan_Hazara 23.87
8 Hazara 25.18
9 Shors 26.19
10 Uygur 26.33
11 East_Finnish 27.04
12 Kargopol_Russian 27.92
13 Erzya 28.27
14 Hakas 29.07
15 Tadjik 29.35
16 Finnish 29.71
17 Afghan_Uzbeki 30.24
18 Afghan_Tadjik 30.36
19 Moldavian 30.41
20 Croatian 31.67

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.5% Tatar + 16.5% Yakut @ 5.69
2 84.5% Tatar + 15.5% Evenki @ 5.77
3 84.9% Tatar + 15.1% Evens @ 5.82
4 83.5% Tatar + 16.5% Dolgan @ 5.96
5 83.7% Tatar + 16.3% Oroqen @ 6.01
6 80.8% Tatar + 19.2% Buryat @ 6.18
7 75.3% Tatar + 24.7% Altaian @ 6.37
8 79.2% Tatar + 20.8% Saqqaq @ 6.5
9 79.3% Tatar + 20.7% Tuvinian @ 6.54
10 82.9% Tatar + 17.1% Koryak @ 6.74
11 71.9% Tatar + 28.1% Hakas @ 6.83
12 79.4% Tatar + 20.6% Mongolian @ 7.35
13 70.4% Tatar + 29.6% Shors @ 7.6
14 83.4% Tatar + 16.6% Chukchi @ 7.81
15 79.1% Tatar + 20.9% Ket @ 7.81
16 80.5% Tatar + 19.5% Selkup @ 8.28
17 59.2% Tatar + 40.8% Afghan_Turkmen @ 8.56
18 52.5% Hakas + 47.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 9.09
19 53% Hakas + 47% South_Polish @ 9.37
20 53.2% Hakas + 46.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 9.4


MDLP K23b result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 18.1
2 East_Siberian 17.34
3 Tungus-Altaic 12.65
4 Ancestral_Altaic 11.62
5 South_Central_Asian 11.52
6 European_Early_Farmers 11.2
7 Caucasian 9.62
8 Arctic 2.92
9 Melano_Polynesian 1.41
10 Paleo_Siberian 1.24
11 Austronesian 1.1
12 Amerindian 1.04
13 African_Pygmy 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bashkir ( ) 14.11
2 Tatar-Siberian ( ) 14.73
3 Saami_Finland ( ) 18.43
4 Saami ( ) 18.5
5 Mari ( ) 19.34
6 Kazahs ( ) 20.73
7 Chuvashs ( ) 21.16
8 Udmurd ( ) 21.54
9 Turkmen_Afghan ( ) 21.59
10 Yukagir_Forest ( ) 21.6
11 Chuvash ( ) 21.97
12 Saami_Kola ( ) 22.28
13 Uygur-Han ( ) 22.67
14 Uzbek ( ) 22.8
15 Tatar ( ) 23.09
16 Komi ( ) 23.37
17 Karakalpak ( ) 23.52
18 Kazakh ( ) 24.02
19 Uygur ( ) 24.09
20 Hazara ( ) 24.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 15.2% Basque_French ( ) @ 7.83
2 84.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 15.3% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 7.93
3 82.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 17.2% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 8.05
4 81.2% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 18.8% French_South ( ) @ 8.84
5 86.4% Bashkir ( ) + 13.6% Basque_French ( ) @ 8.89
6 86.3% Bashkir ( ) + 13.7% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 9.05
7 80.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.3% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 9.32
8 80.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.3% Spanish_Aragon_IBS ( ) @ 9.33
9 85% Bashkir ( ) + 15% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 9.51
10 80.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.2% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 9.55
11 80.9% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.1% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 9.76
12 73.2% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 26.8% Orcadian ( ) @ 9.78
13 51.6% Hakas ( ) + 48.4% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 9.83
14 56.2% Hakas ( ) + 43.8% Irish ( ) @ 9.86
15 80.8% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 19.2% Spanish_Andalucia_IBS ( ) @ 9.89
16 73.1% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 26.9% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 9.96
17 80% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 20% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 9.97
18 79.7% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 20.3% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) @ 10
19 55.6% Hakas ( ) + 44.4% Dutch ( ) @ 10
20 86.3% Tatar-Siberian ( ) + 13.7% Sardinian ( ) @ 10.07

HarappaWorld result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 31.01
2 Siberian 21.35
3 NE-Asian 12.56
4 Baloch 12.16
5 Caucasian 9.39
6 Mediterranean 7.3
7 Beringian 3.26
8 American 1.5
9 S-Indian 0.62
10 W-African 0.53
11 Papuan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 uzbek (behar) 20.15
2 chuvash (behar) 20.64
3 kazakh (harappa) 23.32
4 uyghur (hgdp) 25.97
5 hazara (hgdp) 26.91
6 kyrgyz (xing) 27.73
7 nogai (yunusbayev) 28.77
8 kyrgyz (hodoglugil) 29.01
9 altaian (rasmussen) 30.23
10 tajik (yunusbayev) 30.3
11 romanian-a (behar) 32.27
12 hungarian (behar) 33.32
13 mordovian (yunusbayev) 33.39
14 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 33.43
15 turkmen (yunusbayev) 33.47
16 slovenian (xing) 33.9
17 selkup (rasmussen) 34.14
18 ukranian (yunusbayev) 35.63
19 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 35.69
20 russian (hgdp) 35.71

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.2% chuvash (behar) + 46.8% kazakh (harappa) @ 4.93
2 57% chuvash (behar) + 43% hazara (hgdp) @ 5.55
3 57.8% chuvash (behar) + 42.2% kyrgyz (xing) @ 5.73
4 54.2% altaian (rasmussen) + 45.8% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 5.74
5 58.9% chuvash (behar) + 41.1% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) @ 5.78
6 50.7% uzbek (behar) + 49.3% chuvash (behar) @ 5.97
7 59.4% kazakh (harappa) + 40.6% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 6.4
8 53% altaian (rasmussen) + 47% slovenian (xing) @ 6.42
9 52.6% altaian (rasmussen) + 47.4% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 6.57
10 56.3% chuvash (behar) + 43.7% uyghur (hgdp) @ 6.74
11 52.5% altaian (rasmussen) + 47.5% hungarian (behar) @ 6.79
12 61.2% kazakh (harappa) + 38.8% russian (hgdp) @ 7.06
13 54.9% kyrgyz (xing) + 45.1% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 7.12
14 56.1% altaian (rasmussen) + 43.9% russian (behar) @ 7.12
15 57% altaian (rasmussen) + 43% belorussian (behar) @ 7.14
16 61.2% kazakh (harappa) + 38.8% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 7.42
17 66.2% chuvash (behar) + 33.8% mongolian (rasmussen) @ 7.52
18 62.9% kazakh (harappa) + 37.1% russian (behar) @ 7.58
19 53.7% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) + 46.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 7.74
20 60.5% chuvash (behar) + 39.5% altaian (rasmussen) @ 7.82

Vahaduo HarappaWorld updated SPS:

Distance to: Bulgar
4.82819842 Bashkir
17.35919065 Tatar
22.08035099 uzbek
22.54370200 chuvash
24.37796956 turkmen-afghanistan
25.17927521 kazakh
28.12471867 uyghur
29.32538832 hazara
29.94548714 kyrgyz2
31.30276026 kyrgyz1
31.91800119 nogai
32.27293603 pamiri-rushan
32.40267119 altaian
32.81776805 pamiri-shughnan
32.96583990 tajik
33.42094254 tajik-nw-afghanistan
33.42829490 uzbek-afghanistan
33.74819995 yaghnobi
34.16379663 serbian
34.49504892 romanian-a
35.53066281 hungarian
35.73909064 selkup
35.78797424 pamiri-ishkashim
35.85458827 bulgarian
36.07435377 singapore-indian-d

Global25 result:
https://i.ibb.co/tBjqPXw/20200308-150204.jpg

Royal or Commoner or others? Who is R-Y52?

[axlredneck]

So we need an Altaic Caucasian Finno-Ugric mix to recreate that population :cool:

Yeah, 3/16 Caucasian, 4/16 Volga Finnic, 9/16 Altaic.

Another model:
"sample": "RUS_Nomad_MA:Average",
"fit": 1.8412,
"Tubalar": 58.33,
"Mordovian": 25,
"Kumyk": 16.67

Ps. Chechens and Kumyks are the best source for this sample's Caucasian ancestry.

[axlredneck]

Royal or Commoner or others? Who is R-Y52?

Nothing can be said in that regard as of now!

[Kaspias]

Ancient


[1,] "RUS_Nomad_MA" "0"
[2,] "KAZ_Turk" "0.0215"
[3,] "KAZ_Karakhanid" "0.0235"
[4,] "Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA" "0.0235"
[5,] "KAZ_Karluk" "0.0241"
[6,] "MNG_XiongNu_WE" "0.0266"
[7,] "KAZ_Kipchak" "0.0269"
[8,] "HUN_Prescythian_IA" "0.0273"
[9,] "KAZ_Nomad_MA" "0.0274"
[10,] "Hun_Tian_Shan" "0.0275"
[11,] "CHN_Shirenzigou_IA" "0.0277"
[12,] "Anatolia_Ottoman" "0.0277"
[13,] "Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA" "0.0286"
[14,] "Gepidian_SRB_ACD" "0.0294"
[15,] "KAZ_Pazyryk_IA" "0.0295"
[16,] "Scythian_RUS_Urals" "0.0299"
[17,] "MDA_Cimmerian" "0.0306"
[18,] "Scythian_UKR" "0.0314"
[19,] "Saka_Kazakh_steppe" "0.0317"
[20,] "KAZ_Molaly_LBA" "0.0328"
[21,] "Saka_Tian_Shan" "0.0329"
[22,] "MNG_Hovsgol_BA_o2" "0.0335"
[23,] "KAZ_Wusun" "0.0342"
[24,] "KAZ_Nomad_IA" "0.0343"
[25,] "KGZ_Turk" "0.0348"
[26,] "KAZ_Alpamsa_MLBA_Alakul" "0.0353"
[27,] "KAZ_Chanchar2_LBA" "0.0356"
[28,] "RUS_Tagar" "0.0357"
[29,] "KAZ_Tasbas_IA" "0.036"
[30,] "RUS_Altai_IA" "0.036"
[31,] "DEU_MA_ACD" "0.0361"
[32,] "Anatolia_IA" "0.0366"
[33,] "Yamnaya_BGR" "0.0367"
[34,] "HUN_BA_o" "0.0372"
[35,] "KAZ_Kangju" "0.0375"
[36,] "Sarmatian_RUS_Urals" "0.0378"
[37,] "TJK_Ksirov_H_Kushan" "0.0379"
[38,] "KAZ_Kimak" "0.038"
[39,] "UKR_Cimmerian" "0.0384"
[40,] "Hun_Tian_Shan_o" "0.0392"
[41,] "DEU_Alberstedt_LN" "0.0399"
[42,] "KAZ_Zevakinskiy_BA" "0.0402"
[43,] "Sarmatian_KAZ" "0.0402"
[44,] "Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe" "0.0405"
[45,] "POL_Unetice_EBA" "0.0406"
[46,] "KAZ_Zevakinskiy_LBA" "0.041"
[47,] "ARM_Areni_C" "0.0412"
[48,] "KAZ_Katon_Karagay_LBA" "0.0413"
[49,] "Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA" "0.0413"
[50,] "HUN_MA_Szolad" "0.0413"
[51,] "CZE_Early_Slav" "0.0416"
[52,] "DEU_Unetice_EBA" "0.0418"
[53,] "RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA" "0.042"
[54,] "KAZ_Kairan_MLBA" "0.0421"
[55,] "Scythian_MDA" "0.0423"
[56,] "Saka_Kazakh_steppe_o2" "0.0424"
[57,] "DEU_MA" "0.0426"
[58,] "SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna" "0.0427"
[59,] "Bell_Beaker_CZE" "0.0427"
[60,] "RUS_Mezhovskaya" "0.0429"
[61,] "DEU_BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN" "0.043"
[62,] "CZE_Unetice_EBA" "0.043"
[63,] "RUS_Srubnaya_MLBA" "0.043"
[64,] "ITA_Collegno_MA" "0.043"
[65,] "HUN_MA_Szolad_o2" "0.043"
[66,] "Bell_Beaker_POL" "0.043"
[67,] "ARM_LBA" "0.0431"
[68,] "SWE_Battle-Axe" "0.0431"
[69,] "KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA" "0.0432"
[70,] "KAZ_Dali_MLBA" "0.0432"
[71,] "RUS_Karasuk" "0.0432"
[72,] "CZE_Bilina_BA" "0.0432"
[73,] "RUS_Chalmny-Varre" "0.0432"
[74,] "KAZ_Maitan_MLBA_Alakul" "0.0433"
[75,] "BGR_Varna_En3" "0.0434"
[76,] "Scythian_HUN" "0.0437"
[77,] "Bell_Beaker_Bavaria" "0.0438"
[78,] "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA" "0.044"
[79,] "SWE_IA" "0.044"
[80,] "RUS_Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA" "0.044"
[81,] "ITA_Rome_Renaissance" "0.0441"
[82,] "CZE_EBA" "0.0441"
[83,] "IRN_Hajji_Firuz_BA" "0.0442"
[84,] "UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA_o" "0.0443"
[85,] "UKR_Sredny_Stog_II_En" "0.0443"
[86,] "Bell_Beaker_CZE_o" "0.0446"
[87,] "KAZ_Lisakovskiy_MLBA_Alakul" "0.0446"
[88,] "MNG_Hovsgol_BA" "0.0447"
[89,] "Levant_LBN_MA_Euro" "0.0448"
[90,] "KAZ_Ak_Moustafa_MLBA1" "0.0448"
[91,] "Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD" "0.0448"
[92,] "Corded_Ware_CZE" "0.0448"
[93,] "Bell_Beaker_England" "0.0449"
[94,] "RUS_Alan_MA" "0.045"
[95,] "Bell_Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale" "0.0451"
[96,] "Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL" "0.0451"
[97,] "POL_Chopice_Wesele_Culture" "0.0452"
[98,] "UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine" "0.0452"
[99,] "KAZ_Taldysay_MLBA2" "0.0452"
[100,] "HUN_MA" "0.0453"



[1,] "67.6 % KAZ_Karluk + 32.4 % RUS_Chalmny-Varre"
[2,] "24.9 % Anatolia_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res + 75.1 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[3,] "30.5 % FIN_Levanluhta_IA + 69.5 % KAZ_Karluk"
[4,] "28.9 % ITA_Collegno_MA_o2 + 71.1 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[5,] "35.3 % Anatolia_IA + 64.7 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[6,] "34.5 % HUN_BA_o + 65.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[7,] "22.8 % Levant_ISR_Ashkelon_IA1 + 77.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[8,] "54.4 % KAZ_Turk + 45.6 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[9,] "41.4 % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 58.6 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[10,] "27.8 % IND_Roopkund_B + 72.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[11,] "20.4 % Levant_ISR_MLBA + 79.6 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[12,] "42.3 % RUS_Ust_Ida_LN + 57.7 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[13,] "67.3 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 32.7 % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian"
[14,] "25.5 % ITA_Collegno_MA_o1 + 74.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[15,] "29 % Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD + 71 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[16,] "25.7 % ITA_Rome_Imperial + 74.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[17,] "24.2 % IND_Roopkund_B_o + 75.8 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[18,] "17.7 % Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N + 82.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[19,] "28.2 % ITA_Rome_MA + 71.8 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[20,] "24.5 % ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o + 75.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[21,] "27.9 % FIN_Levanluhta_IA + 72.1 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[22,] "44.2 % KAZ_Kipchak + 55.8 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[23,] "48.9 % KAZ_Karluk + 51.1 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[24,] "76.3 % KAZ_Karluk + 23.7 % RUS_Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov"
[25,] "20.8 % Levant_Canaanite_MBA + 79.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[26,] "71.3 % KAZ_Karluk + 28.7 % RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA_o"
[27,] "26.6 % ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity + 73.4 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[28,] "21.3 % Anatolia_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA + 78.7 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[29,] "31.2 % CZE_Early_Slav + 68.8 % KAZ_Karluk"
[30,] "70.1 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA + 29.9 % Scythian_MDA"
[31,] "34.1 % DEU_MA_ACD + 65.9 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[32,] "21.5 % Anatolia_Ovaoren_EBA + 78.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[33,] "30.1 % CZE_Early_Slav + 69.9 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[34,] "71.3 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 28.7 % RUS_Shamanka_N"
[35,] "19.8 % BGR_Beli_Breyag_EBA + 80.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[36,] "20.7 % Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 + 79.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[37,] "71.4 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 28.6 % RUS_Lokomotiv_N"
[38,] "43.3 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 56.7 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[39,] "67.7 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 32.3 % RUS_Ust_Ida_LN"
[40,] "71 % KAZ_Karakhanid + 29 % RUS_Chalmny-Varre"
[41,] "20 % Anatolia_Isparta_EBA + 80 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[42,] "34.3 % RUS_Baikal_EBA + 65.7 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[43,] "76.7 % KAZ_Turk + 23.3 % RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA_o"
[44,] "27.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad + 72.8 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[45,] "22.5 % ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o + 77.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[46,] "16.7 % GRC_Minoan_Odigitria_low_res + 83.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[47,] "66 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 34 % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[48,] "66.7 % KAZ_Karakhanid + 33.3 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[49,] "37.8 % RUS_Kurma_EBA + 62.2 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[50,] "25.8 % ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance + 74.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[51,] "21.5 % Levant_LBN_Roman + 78.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[52,] "44 % MNG_Hovsgol_BA + 56 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[53,] "20.2 % Levant_ISR_Ashkelon_LBA + 79.8 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[54,] "30.1 % ARM_Areni_C + 69.9 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[55,] "21.9 % BGR_IA + 78.1 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[56,] "28.1 % Bell_Beaker_CZE_o + 71.9 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[57,] "71.7 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 28.3 % RUS_Kurma_EBA"
[58,] "16.7 % Anatolia_Kumtepe_N + 83.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[59,] "21 % HUN_MA_Szolad_o1 + 79 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[60,] "53.1 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 46.9 % KAZ_Pazyryk_IA"
[61,] "19.5 % GRC_Mycenaean + 80.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[62,] "21.8 % DEU_MA_o + 78.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[63,] "25.5 % HRV_IA + 74.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[64,] "62.6 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 37.4 % Hun_Tian_Shan_o"
[65,] "50.2 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 49.8 % KAZ_Nomad_MA"
[66,] "38 % HUN_BA_o + 62 % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[67,] "58.9 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 41.1 % KGZ_Turk"
[68,] "28.5 % BGR_Varna_En3 + 71.5 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[69,] "20.3 % BGR_EBA + 79.7 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[70,] "21.6 % Levant_LBN_MA_NE + 78.4 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[71,] "28.7 % HUN_MA_Szolad_o2 + 71.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[72,] "71.9 % KAZ_Karakhanid + 28.1 % SWE_IA"
[73,] "38.3 % RUS_Ust_Belaya + 61.7 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[74,] "70.2 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 29.8 % RUS_Baikal_MA"
[75,] "28.3 % BGR_Varna_En3 + 71.7 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[76,] "25.8 % Levant_LBN_MA_Mixed + 74.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[77,] "19 % Bell_Beaker_HUN + 81 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[78,] "70.2 % KAZ_Karakhanid + 29.8 % POL_Unetice_EBA"
[79,] "22.2 % FIN_Levanluhta_IA + 77.8 % KAZ_Turk"
[80,] "27.1 % ITA_Proto-Villanovan + 72.9 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[81,] "18.6 % England_Roman_Near_Eastern_o + 81.4 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[82,] "60.6 % KAZ_Nomad_MA + 39.4 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[83,] "74.9 % KAZ_Karakhanid + 25.1 % RUS_Sunghir_MA"
[84,] "21.7 % IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C + 78.3 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[85,] "79.3 % KAZ_Karakhanid + 20.7 % RUS_Ingria_IA"
[86,] "15.4 % Levant_ISR_C + 84.6 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[87,] "29.1 % CZE_Early_Slav + 70.9 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[88,] "69.2 % KAZ_Karluk + 30.8 % POL_Unetice_EBA"
[89,] "15.6 % BGR_Late_C + 84.4 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[90,] "72.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA + 27.8 % Scythian_HUN"
[91,] "71.6 % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 28.4 % RUS_Ust_Belaya"
[92,] "42 % Anatolia_Ottoman + 58 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[93,] "24.4 % HRV_EBA + 75.6 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[94,] "60.8 % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA + 39.2 % HUN_BA_o"
[95,] "15.8 % GRC_Minoan_Lassithi + 84.2 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[96,] "57.8 % KAZ_Pazyryk_IA + 42.2 % Yamnaya_BGR"
[97,] "21.6 % Baltic_LTU_BA + 78.4 % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[98,] "23.2 % ITA_Etruscan + 76.8 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[99,] "14.4 % HUN_Hunyadihalom_MCHA + 85.6 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[100,] "15.6 % ROU_C + 84.4 % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"


[1,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[2,] "50% % KAZ_Turk + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[3,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KAZ_Nomad_MA"
[4,] "50% % KAZ_Karakhanid + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[5,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Pazyryk_IA"
[6,] "50% % KAZ_Turk + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[7,] "50% % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA + 50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA"
[8,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KAZ_Kipchak"
[9,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KAZ_Pazyryk_IA"
[10,] "50% % KAZ_Kipchak + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[11,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[12,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA"
[13,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[14,] "50% % KAZ_Karakhanid + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[15,] "50% % RUS_Nomad_MA + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[16,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[17,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[18,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[19,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[20,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[21,] "50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian + 50% % KAZ_Satan_MLBA_Alakul"
[22,] "50% % KGZ_Turk + 50% % Yamnaya_BGR"
[23,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KAZ_Karluk"
[24,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % Hun_Tian_Shan"
[25,] "50% % Hun_Tian_Shan_o + 50% % Yamnaya_BGR"
[26,] "50% % Corded_Ware_DEU + 50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian"
[27,] "50% % KAZ_Pazyryk_IA + 50% % Scythian_UKR"
[28,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % KAZ_Turk"
[29,] "50% % KAZ_Karakhanid + 50% % KAZ_Turk"
[30,] "50% % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA + 50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD"
[31,] "50% % KAZ_Kipchak + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[32,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA"
[33,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Nomad_MA"
[34,] "50% % ITA_Collegno_MA_o2 + 50% % RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA_o"
[35,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % Hun_Tian_Shan"
[36,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KAZ_Turk"
[37,] "50% % HUN_BA_o + 50% % RUS_Altai_IA"
[38,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA"
[39,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[40,] "50% % KAZ_Chanchar_LBA + 50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian"
[41,] "50% % KAZ_Nomad_MA + 50% % Scythian_UKR"
[42,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % Scythian_RUS_Urals"
[43,] "50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA + 50% % SWE_IA"
[44,] "50% % KAZ_Karakhanid + 50% % KAZ_Karluk"
[45,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA"
[46,] "50% % HUN_BA_o + 50% % KGZ_Turk"
[47,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Karakhanid"
[48,] "50% % Hun_Tian_Shan + 50% % KAZ_Karluk"
[49,] "50% % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA + 50% % Scythian_UKR"
[50,] "50% % HUN_MA_Szolad_o2 + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[51,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Karluk"
[52,] "50% % KAZ_Nomad_MA + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[53,] "50% % Hun_Tian_Shan_o + 50% % POL_Unetice_EBA"
[54,] "50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian + 50% % KAZ_Kyzlbulak_MLBA1"
[55,] "50% % BGR_Varna_En3 + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[56,] "50% % HUN_BA_o + 50% % KAZ_Tasbas_IA"
[57,] "50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[58,] "50% % KAZ_Turk + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[59,] "50% % HUN_Avar_Szolad + 50% % RUS_Ust_Ida_LN"
[60,] "50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian + 50% % UZB_Kashkarchi_BA"
[61,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % MDA_Cimmerian"
[62,] "50% % CZE_Early_Slav + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[63,] "50% % KAZ_Kipchak + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[64,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % Saka_Kazakh_steppe"
[65,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[66,] "50% % KAZ_Nomad_MA + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[67,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Molaly_LBA"
[68,] "50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian + 50% % KAZ_Kairan_MLBA_o"
[69,] "50% % HUN_BA_o + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA_o2"
[70,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD"
[71,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Nomad_IA"
[72,] "50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian + 50% % UZB_Kokcha_BA"
[73,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % Scythian_UKR"
[74,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[75,] "50% % HUN_Prescythian_IA + 50% % KGZ_Turk"
[76,] "50% % Anatolia_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res + 50% % RUS_Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov"
[77,] "50% % Bell_Beaker_CZE_o + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[78,] "50% % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA + 50% % KAZ_Kipchak"
[79,] "50% % RUS_Ust_Ida_LN + 50% % Wales_CA_EBA"
[80,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % KAZ_Kipchak"
[81,] "50% % KAZ_Nomad_MA + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[82,] "50% % HUN_BA_o + 50% % KAZ_Nomad_IA"
[83,] "50% % Hun_Tian_Shan + 50% % KAZ_Kipchak"
[84,] "50% % KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian + 50% % RUS_Priobrazhenka_LBA"
[85,] "50% % HUN_BA_o + 50% % KAZ_Alpamsa_MLBA_Alakul"
[86,] "50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA + 50% % Scythian_UKR"
[87,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % Hun_Tian_Shan"
[88,] "50% % Hun_Tian_Shan + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[89,] "50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE + 50% % Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA"
[90,] "50% % DEU_MA_ACD + 50% % KGZ_Turk"
[91,] "50% % KAZ_Karluk + 50% % Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA"
[92,] "50% % CHN_Shirenzigou_IA + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[93,] "50% % KAZ_Karakhanid + 50% % Scythian_UKR"
[94,] "50% % DEU_BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[95,] "50% % KAZ_Karakhanid + 50% % MNG_XiongNu_WE"
[96,] "50% % Gepidian_SRB_ACD + 50% % KAZ_Kipchak"
[97,] "50% % Anatolia_Ottoman + 50% % RUS_Nomad_MA"
[98,] "50% % DEU_MA + 50% % MNG_Hovsgol_BA"
[99,] "50% % RUS_Altai_IA + 50% % Yamnaya_BGR"
[100,] "50% % KAZ_Pazyryk_IA + 50% % Yamnaya_BGR"


Modern


[1,] "Bashkir" "0.019"
[2,] "Tatar_Siberian" "0.0196"
[3,] "Tatar_Lipka" "0.0228"
[4,] "Nogai" "0.0251"
[5,] "Uzbek" "0.0254"
[6,] "Tatar_Kazan" "0.0271"
[7,] "Hazara" "0.0277"
[8,] "Turkmen" "0.0277"
[9,] "Karakalpak" "0.0278"
[10,] "Hazara_Afghanistan" "0.0288"
[11,] "Uygur" "0.03"
[12,] "Tatar_Mishar" "0.0304"
[13,] "Kazakh" "0.0309"
[14,] "Besermyan" "0.0313"
[15,] "Komi" "0.0336"
[16,] "Turkish_Balikesir" "0.0347"
[17,] "Khakass" "0.0351"
[18,] "Tajik" "0.0354"
[19,] "Turkish_Balkans" "0.0355"
[20,] "Kirghiz" "0.0355"
[21,] "Tubalar" "0.0358"
[22,] "Khakass_Kachins" "0.0367"
[23,] "Turkish_North" "0.0374"
[24,] "Turkish_Northwest" "0.0378"
[25,] "Udmurt" "0.0382"
[26,] "Turkish_South" "0.0384"
[27,] "Turkish_Aydin" "0.0384"
[28,] "Turkish_Istanbul" "0.0387"
[29,] "Hungarian" "0.0389"
[30,] "German_East" "0.0394"
[31,] "Austrian" "0.0398"
[32,] "Tajik_Rushan" "0.04"
[33,] "Gagauz" "0.0401"
[34,] "Tajik_Shugnan" "0.0405"
[35,] "Turkish_Southwest" "0.0405"
[36,] "Turkish_Central" "0.0406"
[37,] "Altaian" "0.0406"
[38,] "Croatian" "0.0408"
[39,] "Shor" "0.0412"
[40,] "Moldavian" "0.0412"
[41,] "Slovenian" "0.0412"
[42,] "German" "0.0414"
[43,] "Bulgarian" "0.0414"
[44,] "Turkish_Adana" "0.0414"
[45,] "Kumyk" "0.0415"
[46,] "Tajik_Ishkashim" "0.0415"
[47,] "Romanian" "0.0416"
[48,] "Czech" "0.0416"
[49,] "Finnish" "0.0417"
[50,] "Mordovian" "0.0418"
[51,] "Serbian" "0.0419"
[52,] "Azeri_Dagestan" "0.042"
[53,] "Turkish_Azer" "0.0421"
[54,] "Russian_Kostroma" "0.0422"
[55,] "Italian_Aosta_Valley" "0.0424"
[56,] "Tajik_Yagnobi" "0.0426"
[57,] "French_Alsace" "0.0426"
[58,] "Montenegrin" "0.0429"
[59,] "Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye" "0.0429"
[60,] "Turkish_Kayseri" "0.043"
[61,] "Bosnian" "0.0433"
[62,] "French_Nord" "0.0434"
[63,] "Swedish" "0.0436"
[64,] "Macedonian" "0.0436"
[65,] "Azeri" "0.0437"
[66,] "Swiss_German" "0.0439"
[67,] "Ingrian" "0.0439"
[68,] "Mogush" "0.0441"
[69,] "Italian_Northeast" "0.0442"
[70,] "Finnish_East" "0.0443"
[71,] "Saami" "0.0443"
[72,] "Belgian" "0.0446"
[73,] "Karelian" "0.0446"
[74,] "Dutch" "0.0447"
[75,] "Vepsian" "0.0449"
[76,] "Roma_Bilbao" "0.045"
[77,] "Shor_Mountain" "0.045"
[78,] "Russian_Pinega" "0.0451"
[79,] "Roma_Madrid" "0.0451"
[80,] "Polish" "0.0452"
[81,] "Roma_Barcelona" "0.0452"
[82,] "Kabardin" "0.0452"
[83,] "Orcadian" "0.0454"
[84,] "Greek_Ionia" "0.0454"
[85,] "Italian_Liguria" "0.0458"
[86,] "Kaitag" "0.0459"
[87,] "French_Provence" "0.046"
[88,] "Scottish" "0.046"
[89,] "Tabasaran" "0.0462"
[90,] "Italian_Marche" "0.0462"
[91,] "Slovakian" "0.0463"
[92,] "Cossack_Ukrainian" "0.0463"
[93,] "Roma_Porto" "0.0463"
[94,] "Welsh" "0.0463"
[95,] "Italian_Piedmont" "0.0463"
[96,] "Roma_Granada" "0.0464"
[97,] "Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige" "0.0464"
[98,] "Roma_Balkans" "0.0464"
[99,] "Cherkes" "0.0464"
[100,] "Ezid" "0.0464"



[1,] "42.9 % Tatar_Lipka + 57.1 % Tatar_Siberian"
[2,] "69.9 % Tatar_Lipka + 30.1 % Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye"
[3,] "17.5 % Selkup + 82.5 % Tatar_Lipka"
[4,] "60.1 % Bashkir + 39.9 % Tatar_Lipka"
[5,] "25.1 % German_East + 74.9 % Tatar_Siberian"
[6,] "18.9 % Khanty + 81.1 % Tatar_Lipka"
[7,] "76.8 % Tatar_Siberian + 23.2 % Turkish_Azer"
[8,] "21.4 % Italian_Liguria + 78.6 % Tatar_Siberian"
[9,] "78.6 % Bashkir + 21.4 % Turkish_Azer"
[10,] "68.5 % Bashkir + 31.5 % Hazara"
[11,] "45.7 % Besermyan + 54.3 % Hazara"
[12,] "26.8 % Shor_Khakassia + 73.2 % Tatar_Lipka"
[13,] "16.7 % Nenets + 83.3 % Tatar_Lipka"
[14,] "27.7 % Shor_Mountain + 72.3 % Tatar_Lipka"
[15,] "18.5 % Mansi + 81.5 % Tatar_Lipka"
[16,] "20.4 % Orcadian + 79.6 % Tatar_Siberian"
[17,] "73.9 % Tatar_Siberian + 26.1 % Turkish_Balikesir"
[18,] "33.9 % Khakass + 66.1 % Tatar_Lipka"
[19,] "81.4 % Bashkir + 18.6 % Italian_Liguria"
[20,] "22.2 % Slovenian + 77.8 % Tatar_Siberian"
[21,] "76.1 % Bashkir + 23.9 % Turkish_Balikesir"
[22,] "19.9 % Kaitag + 80.1 % Tatar_Siberian"
[23,] "19.3 % English_Cornwall + 80.7 % Tatar_Siberian"
[24,] "76 % Tatar_Siberian + 24 % Turkish_North"
[25,] "77.9 % Bashkir + 22.1 % Turkish_North"
[26,] "23.1 % Hungarian + 76.9 % Tatar_Siberian"
[27,] "67.1 % Bashkir + 32.9 % Uzbek"
[28,] "19.7 % Scottish + 80.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[29,] "21.7 % German + 78.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[30,] "22.4 % Gagauz + 77.6 % Tatar_Siberian"
[31,] "20 % Kabardin + 80 % Tatar_Siberian"
[32,] "21.6 % Czech + 78.4 % Tatar_Siberian"
[33,] "21.1 % French_Alsace + 78.9 % Tatar_Siberian"
[34,] "20.6 % Swedish + 79.4 % Tatar_Siberian"
[35,] "19.4 % English + 80.6 % Tatar_Siberian"
[36,] "21.1 % Italian_Aosta_Valley + 78.9 % Tatar_Siberian"
[37,] "18.7 % Italian_Lombardy + 81.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[38,] "71.7 % Bashkir + 28.3 % Hazara_Afghanistan"
[39,] "20 % Dutch + 80 % Tatar_Siberian"
[40,] "65.1 % Tatar_Siberian + 34.9 % Uzbek"
[41,] "15.9 % Ket + 84.1 % Tatar_Lipka"
[42,] "19.7 % Roma_Bilbao + 80.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[43,] "31.7 % Hazara + 68.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[44,] "80.9 % Tatar_Siberian + 19.1 % Welsh"
[45,] "20.1 % Swiss_German + 79.9 % Tatar_Siberian"
[46,] "20.9 % Azeri_Dagestan + 79.1 % Tatar_Siberian"
[47,] "18.9 % Shetlandic + 81.1 % Tatar_Siberian"
[48,] "18.7 % Icelandic + 81.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[49,] "20.2 % French_Nord + 79.8 % Tatar_Siberian"
[50,] "41.4 % Besermyan + 58.6 % Nogai"
[51,] "18.2 % Irish + 81.8 % Tatar_Siberian"
[52,] "21.3 % Croatian + 78.7 % Tatar_Siberian"
[53,] "21.7 % Austrian + 78.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[54,] "67.7 % Bashkir + 32.3 % Nogai"
[55,] "67.2 % Tatar_Lipka + 32.8 % Tubalar"
[56,] "17.5 % Russian_Smolensk + 82.5 % Tatar_Siberian"
[57,] "82.7 % Bashkir + 17.3 % Kabardin"
[58,] "19.4 % Belgian + 80.6 % Tatar_Siberian"
[59,] "18.7 % Roma_Porto + 81.3 % Tatar_Siberian"
[60,] "80.3 % Bashkir + 19.7 % German_East"
[61,] "18.6 % Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige + 81.4 % Tatar_Siberian"
[62,] "20.5 % Serbian + 79.5 % Tatar_Siberian"
[63,] "17.5 % Ingushian + 82.5 % Tatar_Siberian"
[64,] "18.5 % Cherkes + 81.5 % Tatar_Siberian"
[65,] "78 % Tatar_Siberian + 22 % Turkish_Istanbul"
[66,] "18.2 % Karachay + 81.8 % Tatar_Siberian"
[67,] "45.6 % Besermyan + 54.4 % Karakalpak"
[68,] "83 % Bashkir + 17 % Roma_Bilbao"
[69,] "81.2 % Bashkir + 18.8 % Turkish_Central"
[70,] "20.4 % Bulgarian + 79.6 % Tatar_Siberian"
[71,] "18.3 % Italian_Marche + 81.7 % Tatar_Siberian"
[72,] "20.3 % Kumyk + 79.7 % Tatar_Siberian"
[73,] "80.5 % Bashkir + 19.5 % Turkish_Istanbul"
[74,] "84.2 % Bashkir + 15.8 % Italian_Lombardy"
[75,] "76.4 % Tatar_Siberian + 23.6 % Turkish_Balkans"
[76,] "17.8 % French_Paris + 82.2 % Tatar_Siberian"
[77,] "17.8 % Circassian + 82.2 % Tatar_Siberian"
[78,] "15 % Spanish_Asturias + 85 % Tatar_Siberian"
[79,] "18 % French_Brittany + 82 % Tatar_Siberian"
[80,] "79.4 % Tatar_Siberian + 20.6 % Turkish_Central"
[81,] "23.5 % Tajik + 76.5 % Tatar_Siberian"
[82,] "83.8 % Bashkir + 16.2 % Cherkes"
[83,] "18.6 % Polish + 81.4 % Tatar_Siberian"
[84,] "28.7 % Shor + 71.3 % Tatar_Lipka"
[85,] "82.7 % Bashkir + 17.3 % Turkish_Kayseri"
[86,] "17.7 % Azeri_Dagestan + 82.3 % Bashkir"
[87,] "20.2 % Moldavian + 79.8 % Tatar_Siberian"
[88,] "84.2 % Bashkir + 15.8 % Karachay"
[89,] "57 % Hazara + 43 % Komi"
[90,] "86.5 % Bashkir + 13.5 % Greek_Trabzon"
[91,] "17.3 % Balkar + 82.7 % Tatar_Siberian"
[92,] "18.3 % Greek_Ionia + 81.7 % Tatar_Siberian"
[93,] "19.1 % Bosnian + 80.9 % Tatar_Siberian"
[94,] "17.2 % French_Occitanie + 82.8 % Tatar_Siberian"
[95,] "84.1 % Bashkir + 15.9 % Roma_Porto"
[96,] "19.8 % Romanian + 80.2 % Tatar_Siberian"
[97,] "16.6 % Kubachinian + 83.4 % Tatar_Siberian"
[98,] "28.9 % Hazara_Afghanistan + 71.1 % Tatar_Siberian"
[99,] "81.7 % Bashkir + 18.3 % Gagauz"
[100,] "80.9 % Bashkir + 19.1 % Turkish_Aydin"



[1,] "50% % Tatar_Lipka + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.0167"
[2,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Kazakh" "0.0176"
[3,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Tatar_Lipka" "0.018"
[4,] "50% % Hazara + 50% % Tatar_Kazan" "0.019"
[5,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Hazara" "0.0191"
[6,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.0192"
[7,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Uygur" "0.0198"
[8,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Karakalpak" "0.0198"
[9,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Hazara_Afghanistan" "0.0199"
[10,] "50% % Karakalpak + 50% % Tatar_Kazan" "0.0201"
[11,] "50% % Tatar_Siberian + 50% % Uzbek" "0.0207"
[12,] "50% % Khakass + 50% % Turkish_Balkans" "0.0208"
[13,] "50% % Kirghiz + 50% % Komi" "0.0209"
[14,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Uzbek" "0.0209"
[15,] "50% % Nogai + 50% % Tatar_Kazan" "0.021"
[16,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Nogai" "0.021"
[17,] "50% % Tatar_Kazan + 50% % Uzbek" "0.021"
[18,] "50% % Hazara_Afghanistan + 50% % Tatar_Kazan" "0.021"
[19,] "50% % Khakass + 50% % Komi" "0.0212"
[20,] "50% % Nogai + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.0212"
[21,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Kirghiz" "0.0214"
[22,] "50% % Khakass + 50% % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0214"
[23,] "50% % Kazakh + 50% % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0214"
[24,] "50% % Kazakh + 50% % Komi" "0.0215"
[25,] "50% % Tatar_Kazan + 50% % Turkmen" "0.0216"
[26,] "50% % Tubalar + 50% % Turkish_Balkans" "0.0217"
[27,] "50% % Hazara + 50% % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0217"
[28,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Nogai" "0.0217"
[29,] "50% % Hazara_Afghanistan + 50% % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0217"
[30,] "50% % Nogai + 50% % Tatar_Lipka" "0.0217"
[31,] "50% % Shor + 50% % Slovenian" "0.0218"
[32,] "50% % Tatar_Lipka + 50% % Uzbek" "0.0219"
[33,] "50% % Altaian + 50% % Finnish" "0.0219"
[34,] "50% % German_East + 50% % Khakass_Kachins" "0.0219"
[35,] "50% % Tatar_Mishar + 50% % Uygur" "0.022"
[36,] "50% % Kirghiz + 50% % Udmurt" "0.022"
[37,] "50% % Hazara + 50% % Komi" "0.0221"
[38,] "50% % Bulgarian + 50% % Shor" "0.0222"
[39,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Hazara" "0.0222"
[40,] "50% % Khakass + 50% % Turkish_Balikesir" "0.0223"
[41,] "50% % Komi + 50% % Tubalar" "0.0223"
[42,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Uzbek" "0.0224"
[43,] "50% % Karakalpak + 50% % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0224"
[44,] "50% % German_East + 50% % Khakass" "0.0224"
[45,] "50% % Hazara + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.0225"
[46,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Turkmen" "0.0225"
[47,] "50% % Moldavian + 50% % Shor" "0.0225"
[48,] "50% % Hazara_Afghanistan + 50% % Komi" "0.0226"
[49,] "50% % Hungarian + 50% % Khakass" "0.0226"
[50,] "50% % Croatian + 50% % Shor" "0.0226"
[51,] "50% % German_East + 50% % Shor" "0.0226"
[52,] "50% % Kazakh + 50% % Tatar_Kazan" "0.0227"
[53,] "50% % Finnish_East + 50% % Mogush" "0.0228"
[54,] "50% % Tatar_Mishar + 50% % Tubalar" "0.0228"
[55,] "50% % Ingrian + 50% % Mogush" "0.0228"
[56,] "50% % Finnish + 50% % Shor" "0.0228"
[57,] "50% % Altaian + 50% % German_East" "0.0228"
[58,] "50% % Komi + 50% % Uygur" "0.0229"
[59,] "50% % Tatar_Kazan + 50% % Uygur" "0.0229"
[60,] "50% % Khakass_Kachins + 50% % Komi" "0.0229"
[61,] "50% % Khakass + 50% % Tajik" "0.0229"
[62,] "50% % Russian_Pinega + 50% % Shor_Mountain" "0.0229"
[63,] "50% % Hungarian + 50% % Khakass_Kachins" "0.023"
[64,] "50% % Czech + 50% % Shor" "0.0231"
[65,] "50% % Serbian + 50% % Shor" "0.0231"
[66,] "50% % Gagauz + 50% % Shor" "0.0231"
[67,] "50% % Tubalar + 50% % Turkish_Balikesir" "0.0231"
[68,] "50% % Hungarian + 50% % Tubalar" "0.0232"
[69,] "50% % Karakalpak + 50% % Komi" "0.0232"
[70,] "50% % Hazara + 50% % Tatar_Lipka" "0.0233"
[71,] "50% % Tatar_Siberian + 50% % Turkmen" "0.0233"
[72,] "50% % German_East + 50% % Tubalar" "0.0233"
[73,] "50% % Romanian + 50% % Shor" "0.0234"
[74,] "50% % Finnish + 50% % Mogush" "0.0234"
[75,] "50% % Tatar_Mishar + 50% % Turkmen" "0.0234"
[76,] "50% % Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye + 50% % Turkish_Azer" "0.0234"
[77,] "50% % Altaian + 50% % Russian_Kostroma" "0.0235"
[78,] "50% % Polish + 50% % Shor_Mountain" "0.0235"
[79,] "50% % Mogush + 50% % Swedish" "0.0235"
[80,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Turkmen" "0.0235"
[81,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Karakalpak" "0.0235"
[82,] "50% % German + 50% % Shor" "0.0236"
[83,] "50% % Mordovian + 50% % Shor" "0.0236"
[84,] "50% % Hungarian + 50% % Shor" "0.0236"
[85,] "50% % Bashkir + 50% % Hazara_Afghanistan" "0.0236"
[86,] "50% % Nogai + 50% % Uzbek" "0.0236"
[87,] "50% % Khakass_Kachins + 50% % Tajik" "0.0237"
[88,] "50% % Hazara_Afghanistan + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.0237"
[89,] "50% % Besermyan + 50% % Turkish_Balikesir" "0.0238"
[90,] "50% % Tatar_Lipka + 50% % Turkmen" "0.0238"
[91,] "50% % Russian_Kostroma + 50% % Shor" "0.0238"
[92,] "50% % Karakalpak + 50% % Tatar_Lipka" "0.0238"
[93,] "50% % Tatar_Kazan + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.0239"
[94,] "50% % Shor_Mountain + 50% % Vepsian" "0.0239"
[95,] "50% % Karelian + 50% % Mogush" "0.0239"
[96,] "50% % Hazara_Afghanistan + 50% % Tatar_Lipka" "0.0239"
[97,] "50% % Khakass_Kachins + 50% % Tatar_Mishar" "0.024"
[98,] "50% % Tatar_Mishar + 50% % Uzbek" "0.024"
[99,] "50% % Tubalar + 50% % Turkish_North" "0.024"
[100,] "50% % Karakalpak + 50% % Tatar_Siberian" "0.024"

[Voskos]

Target: RUS_Nomad_MA
Distance: 1.7311% / 0.01731062 | ADC: 0.25x
57.0 Nomad_Kazak_Tengri
23.4 Sklavenoi
8.2 Illyrian_settler
4.8 Ottoman_Turkish
4.6 Siberian_tribe
2.0 Egyptian_settler

Target: RUS_Nomad_MA
Distance: 1.6986% / 0.01698563
54.2 Nomad_Kazak_Tengri
24.0 Sklavenoi
6.8 Illyrian_settler
6.2 Siberian_tribe
3.2 Egyptian_settler
2.4 Armenian_dynasty
2.0 Chinese_merchant_silk_road
1.0 Kenyan_runner_marathon
0.2 Bantu_civilization

[Deniz]

Great job...
Also, you can see that in that clustering tree by Kaspias that this 'Bulgar' is west euroasian and clusters with IA Scythians.
Imo, this sample is an example of Iranic-Turkic symbiosis.
Probably many of the Iranic and Turkic words in the modern Bulgarian language were brought directly from the old Bulgars.

I am also positive that it was in Old Great Bulgaria that many non Bulgar lineages we're Incorporated in the Bulgar nation such as I-Z17855. This lineages thereafter shows spread typical for the Bulgar expansion in the Balkans. Something similar to I2a lineages found among the Magyar conquerors.

May ı ask where is the Iranic at this sample?Dont get me wrong.Just more info.

[Kaspias]

Scythians were a general term for Steppe nomads who lived in that time period. There are no connection between most of Scythian DNA findings.

Here, in this case, I'm sure that Zevakino-Chillikta is actually an earlier form of Turks. Talking about Proto-Turks, they carry a high amount of Europid(Uralic/Ugric) admixture, but very slight/none Iranic. More like ANE like admixture which can be regarded as West Asian in some algorithms.

[Jana]

He scores more North European than modern Bulgarians. Oh the irony;) :rolleyes:

Not suprising. Modern Bulgarians have tons of Thracian and some minor Greco-Roman ancestry too.

[Kmakkmak]

May ı ask where is the Iranic at this sample?Dont get me wrong.Just more info.

R1a1a1b2-Z93

[Kaspias]

R1a1a1b2-Z93

It is PIE. Turkic meta-group formed with at least half IE admixture, and there were no specific haplogroups belong to neither Iranic nor Turkic at that time. Because there were no such things.

[axlredneck]

Here, in this case, I'm sure that Zevakino-Chillikta is actually an earlier form of Turks. Talking about Proto-Turks, they carry a high amount of Europid(Uralic/Ugric) admixture, but very slight/none Iranic. More like ANE like admixture which can be regarded as West Asian in some algorithms.

Right!

Tracing the origin and expansion of the Turkic and Hunnic confederations, by Flegontov et al.

Turkic-speaking populations, now spread over a vast area in Asia, are highly heterogeneous genetically. The first confederation unequivocally attributed to them was established by the Göktürks in the 6th c. CE. Notwithstanding written resources from neighboring sedentary societies such as Chinese, Persian, Indian and Eastern Roman, earlier history of the Turkic speakers remains debatable, including their potential connections to the Xiongnu and Huns, which dominated the Eurasian steppe in the first half of the 1st millennium CE. To answer these questions, we co-analyzed newly generated human genome-wide data from Central Asia (the 1240K panel), spanning the period from ca. 3000 to 500 YBP, and the data published by de Barros Damgaard et al. Firstly, we generated a PCA projection to understand genetic affinities of ancient individuals with respect to present-day Tungusic, Mongolic, Turkic, Uralic, and Yeniseian-speaking groups. Secondly, we modeled hundreds of present-day and few ancient Turkic individuals using the qpAdm tool, testing various modern/ancient Siberian and ancient West Eurasian proxies for ancestry sources.

A majority of Turkic speakers in Central Asia, Siberia and further to the west share the same ancestry profile, being a mixture of Tungusic or Mongolic speakers and genetically West Eurasian populations of Central Asia in the early 1st millennium CE. The latter are themselves modelled as a mixture of Iron Age nomads (western Scythians or Sarmatians) and ancient Caucasians or Iranian farmers. For some Turkic groups in the Urals and the Altai regions and in the Volga basin, a different admixture model fits the data: the same West Eurasian source + Uralic- or Yeniseian-speaking Siberians. Thus, we have revealed an admixture cline between Scythians and the Iranian farmer genetic cluster, and two further clines connecting the former cline to distinct ancestry sources in Siberia. Interestingly, few Wusun-period individuals harbor substantial Uralic/Yeniseian-related Siberian ancestry, in contrast to preceding Scythians and later Turkic groups characterized by the Tungusic/Mongolic-related ancestry. It remains to be elucidated whether this genetic influx reflects contacts with the Xiongnu confederacy.

Present day Turkic speakers fall into two clusters of admixture patterns (Uralic/Yenisean and Tungussic/Mongolic) based on genomic data, with ancient Turks belonging almost exclusively to the first cluster.

[Deniz]

Great job...
Also, you can see that in that clustering tree by Kaspias that this 'Bulgar' is west euroasian and clusters with IA Scythians.
Imo, this sample is an example of Iranic-Turkic symbiosis.
Probably many of the Iranic and Turkic words in the modern Bulgarian language were brought directly from the old Bulgars.

I am also positive that it was in Old Great Bulgaria that many non Bulgar lineages we're Incorporated in the Bulgar nation such as I-Z17855. This lineages thereafter shows spread typical for the Bulgar expansion in the Balkans. Something similar to I2a lineages found among the Magyar conquerors.

Oh remember also my paternal hg I-Z17855.

[Deniz]

Right!


Present day Turkic speakers fall into two clusters of admixture patterns (Uralic/Yenisean and Tungussic/Mongolic) based on genomic data, with ancient Turks belonging almost exclusively to the first cluster.

Totally agree with you and Kaspias.I saw mostly uralic mixture for Proto Turks.

[Deniz]

Right!


Present day Turkic speakers fall into two clusters of admixture patterns (Uralic/Yenisean and Tungussic/Mongolic) based on genomic data, with ancient Turks belonging almost exclusively to the first cluster.

Totally agree with you and Kaspias.I saw mostly uralic mixture for Proto Turks.

[Leto]

Right!


Present day Turkic speakers fall into two clusters of admixture patterns (Uralic/Yenisean and Tungussic/Mongolic) based on genomic data, with ancient Turks belonging almost exclusively to the first cluster.
What about the Volga Ural pops? Are they mainly or entirely Uralic-Yeniseian?

[axlredneck]

What about the Volga Ural pops? Are they mainly or entirely Uralic-Yeniseian?

Most Volga-Ural folks have Uralic ancestry, but in varying proportions. Bashkirs have high Asian ancestry, followed by Tatars.

https://i.ibb.co/Fm9MjzS/20200310-191813.jpg
(K8)
Light Blue - Mediterranean/W-Asian;
Dark Blue - European;
Light Green - Caucasian;
Dark Green - South-Central Asian;
Purple - Siberian (Nganasan-like);
Light Purple - Arctic (Chukchi-like);
Bright Yellow - East Asian (Han-like);
Beige - NE Asian (Yakut-like).

[axlredneck]

K=14
https://i.ibb.co/LZhg3Dw/20200310-201634.jpg

[Leto]

Most Volga-Ural folks have Uralic ancestry, but in varying proportions. Bashkirs have high Asian ancestry, followed by Tatars.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/Fm9MjzS/20200310-191813.jpg
(K8)
Light Blue - Mediterranean/W-Asian;
Dark Blue - European;
Light Green - Caucasian;
Dark Green - South-Central Asian;
Purple - Siberian (Nganasan-like);
Light Purple - Arctic (Chukchi-like);
Bright Yellow - East Asian (Han-like);
Beige - NE Asian (Yakut-like).
Tatars and Bashkirs have pretty much the same components, only the proportions are different.

[axlredneck]

Tatars and Bashkirs have pretty much the same components, only the proportions are different.

Right!

[axlredneck]

--

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/8dnTg47/Screenshot-20200309-105535-Drive.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/XFbcbYk/20200311-134928.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/9tpZBnL/Screenshot-20200309-105442-Drive.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/jyFqnMm/20200308-123722.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/Lkmv9fr/Screenshot-20200308-123549-Drive.jpg
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/17-uralic-cline-ugric.jpg

Based on available PCAs, contemporary Inner and N. Eurasian people can be classified into the following clines.

ALTAIC CLINE
1. Steppe cline: Mishar Tatars, Kazan Tatars, Bashkirs, Siberian Tatars, Crimean (Steppe) Tatars, Ashtrakhan Tatars.
2. Southern Steppe cline: Tajiks, Pamiris1, Yagnobis2, Kuban Nogais2, Karanogays, Uzbeks, Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Karakalpaks, Turkmen.
3. Paleo-Altaic cluster: Tubalars, Shors, Khakass, Altaians, Chelkans, Tuvinians.

SIBERIAN CLINE
1. Ugric cline: Khanty, Mansi, Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts, Besermyan, Komi, Mordvins, N. Russians, Zabolotniye Tatars.
2. Paleo-Siberian cluster: Nganasan.

LAPLANDIC CLINE
1. Laplandic cline: Veps, Karelians, Finns, Ingrians.
2. Paleo-Laplandic cluster: Saami.


1. strongly attracted towards Steppe cline.
2. attracted towards Steppe and Caucasian clines.

[Leto]

Based on available PCAs, contemporary Inner and N. Eurasian people can be classified into the following clines.

ALTAIC CLINE
1. Steppe cline: Mishar Tatars, Kazan Tatars, Bashkirs, Siberian Tatars, Crimean (Steppe) Tatars, Ashtrakhan Tatars.
2. Southern Steppe cline: Tajiks, Pamiris1, Yagnobis2, Kuban Nogais2, Karanogays, Uzbeks, Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Karakalpaks, Turkmen.
3. Paleo-Altaic cluster: Tubalars, Shors, Khakass, Altaians, Chelkans, Tuvinians.

SIBERIAN CLINE
1. Ugric cline: Khanty, Mansi, Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts, Besermyan, Komi, Mordvins, N. Russians, Zabolotniye Tatars.
2. Paleo-Siberian cluster: Nganasan.

LAPLANDIC CLINE
1. Laplandic cline: Veps, Karelians, Finns, Ingrians.
2. Paleo-Laplandic cluster: Saami.


1. strongly attracted towards Steppe cline.
2. attracted towards Steppe and Caucasian clines.
What about Kalmyks, Buryats, Yakuts?

[axlredneck]

What about Kalmyks, Buryats, Yakuts?

https://i.ibb.co/bzT9y3p/Screenshot-20200312-091634-Drive.jpg

Kalmyks and Buryats are located right behind the Altaic cluster. Yakuts are Yukhagir shifted, although they have a Tungusic pull aswell.

[Cumansky]

Axlredneck is not Bulgar

Get outta here nigga, we are not from Mongolia

Where did Bulgars originated? Can you show me in the map or no

[axlredneck]

Axlredneck is not Bulgar

Get outta here nigga, we are not from Mongolia

Where did Bulgars originated? Can you show me in the map or no

What're you talking about, Nigga?

[Cumansky]

What're you talking about, Nigga?

Answer this nigga

Where did Bulgars originated? Can you show me in the map or no

[axlredneck]

Answer this nigga

Where did Bulgars originated? Can you show me in the map or no

They very much originated in the steppe, not in Mongolia or China!

[axlredneck]

Have you even read the thread?

[Cumansky]

They very much originated in the steppe, not in Mongolia or China!

No we didn't originate in the Steppe, China or Mongolia

Our ethnogenesis was always mixed but it formed in Balharia now known as northern Afghanistan in Central Asia

[axlredneck]

No we didn't originate in the Steppe, China or Mongolia

Our ethnogenesis was always mixed but it formed in Balharia now known as northern Afghanistan in Central Asia

What's the source?

Ps. What's your ethnicity?

[Cumansky]

Have you even read the thread?

If our Global25 is Kobe Bryant, Eurogenes K13 is Bob Cousy nigga

[Cumansky]

What's the source?

Ps. What's your ethnicity?

Listen to Pasha, "Origin of the Bulgarians (Bulgars)" Youtube

[Cumansky]

My ethnicity is Vlach Bulgar, same as my Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather, etc, etc

[Leto]

https://i.ibb.co/bzT9y3p/Screenshot-20200312-091634-Drive.jpg

Kalmyks and Buryats are located right behind the Altaic cluster. Yakuts are Yukhagir shifted, although they have a Tungusic pull aswell.
I would expect Buryats to be more Northern than Kalmyks and Khalkha.

[axlredneck]

I would expect Buryats to be more Northern than Kalmyks and Khalkha.

That they are. Kalmyks cluster with Mongols (southern Mongolic cluster), and Buryats cluster with Khamnegan (northern Mongolic cluster).

[PAGANE]

What's the source?

Ps. What's your ethnicity?

The Bactria region is connected with one of the contemporary hypotheses about the origin of the Proto-Bulgarians. In this context it is called Balkhara. In the Indian religious epic, the Mahabharata is referred to as the "Blgh" because of the lack or difficulty of using the "ъ" sound in pronouncing and recording "БЪлгари/Bulgarians". Hence the hypothesis that this is the oldest known homeland of the Proto-Bulgarians. Mainly comes from the purely sound coincidence of Balkh / Bulgars, respectively. "Bahliki", as the ancient Bulgarians call it in their books. Then the seventh-century Armenian Ashharatswitz geography and the flea nation mentioned there, whose location is in the Hindu Kush region. Also
Dimashki, an Arab author who referred to the Balkar district in the area in question, understood "west of Tajikistan" as Tajikistan. This information is linked to the announcement of Mikhail Syriysky about the resettlement of the Bulgarians from Imeon Mountain, which is connected to the Pamir-Hindokushi Massif in Central Asia, although Imeon mainly covers Tianshan. Last but not least, the Chinese chronicles (in this case, Bei-sheh, Tang-shu), speaking about the Bolo state (middle Chinese "pā-lhāk") in Central Asia, and mostly an open-ended lexical fund showing proximity with the language of the present. "Pamir Tajiks" This hypothesis is not uniquely accepted in Bulgaria, and there are no serious supporters outside the country. For example, Prof. Rasho Rashev, who is considered one of the leading contemporary researchers in the field of Pro-Bulgarian archeology, believes that the Pro-Bulgarians were a heterogeneous tribal alliance headed by a Turkic elite who brought with them both Iranian and Hungarian tribes. whose ethnogenesis took place in the 2 - 6 century

[Chelubey]

Could at least one topic about the origin of the ancient Turkic tribes do without mentioning the Iranians? As far as I know, the theory of origin of ancient Bulgarians from Iranians is considered marginal (outside of Bulgaria). Many Iranian loanwords that exist in the Bulgarian language, as far as I know, either fell into the Bulgarian language just in Slavic period or exist also in languages of the Turkic peoples, whose origin is not associated with Iranians.

[Cumansky]

The Bactria region is connected with one of the contemporary hypotheses about the origin of the Proto-Bulgarians. In this context it is called Balkhara. In the Indian religious epic, the Mahabharata is referred to as the "Blgh" because of the lack or difficulty of using the "ъ" sound in pronouncing and recording "БЪлгари/Bulgarians". Hence the hypothesis that this is the oldest known homeland of the Proto-Bulgarians. Mainly comes from the purely sound coincidence of Balkh / Bulgars, respectively. "Bahliki", as the ancient Bulgarians call it in their books. Then the seventh-century Armenian Ashharatswitz geography and the flea nation mentioned there, whose location is in the Hindu Kush region. Also
Dimashki, an Arab author who referred to the Balkar district in the area in question, understood "west of Tajikistan" as Tajikistan. This information is linked to the announcement of Mikhail Syriysky about the resettlement of the Bulgarians from Imeon Mountain, which is connected to the Pamir-Hindokushi Massif in Central Asia, although Imeon mainly covers Tianshan. Last but not least, the Chinese chronicles (in this case, Bei-sheh, Tang-shu), speaking about the Bolo state (middle Chinese "pā-lhāk") in Central Asia, and mostly an open-ended lexical fund showing proximity with the language of the present. "Pamir Tajiks" This hypothesis is not uniquely accepted in Bulgaria, and there are no serious supporters outside the country. For example, Prof. Rasho Rashev, who is considered one of the leading contemporary researchers in the field of Pro-Bulgarian archeology, believes that the Pro-Bulgarians were a heterogeneous tribal alliance headed by a Turkic elite who brought with them both Iranian and Hungarian tribes. whose ethnogenesis took place in the 2 - 6 century

Nice read about my ancestor(s)

[Chelubey]

Main admixture components of Volga Tatars are 24–46% Conquerors, 20–50% Russians, 16–30% Mansis+Khantys (Yug) and 9–18% Norvegians (S5F Table).

Tatars (as well as Bashkirs) have subclades of the hg I close to the Norwegians (tmrca 1500-2500 years).

[Leto]

2. Southern Steppe cline: Tajiks, Pamiris1, Yagnobis2, Kuban Nogais2, Karanogays, Uzbeks, Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Karakalpaks, Turkmen.

What's the difference between Kuban Nogais and Karanogais? There is only a little over 100,000 Nogais living in Russia today, mainly Dagestan and Southern Russia as well as some migrants in other parts.

[axlredneck]

What's the difference between Kuban Nogais and Karanogais? There is only a little over 100,000 Nogais living in Russia today, mainly Dagestan and Southern Russia as well as some migrants in other parts.

Karanogays are the original Nogays, whereas the Kuban nogais are mixed.

[Leto]

Karanogays are the original Nogays, whereas the Kuban nogais are mixed.
How much Mongoloid are both groups? I asked fucking Peterski to make a spreadsheet of Nogais for me because he has the data but he hasn't.

[axlredneck]

How much Mongoloid are both groups? I asked fucking Peterski to make a spreadsheet of Nogais for me because he has the data but he hasn't.

The former are around half Mongoloid, the latter around a quarter.

[Leto]

The former are around half Mongoloid, the latter around a quarter.
Half Mongoloid is huge. But then again, linguistically they are very close to Kazakhs and Kazakhs are very Mongoloid (~60% on average).

[axlredneck]

Half Mongoloid is huge. But then again, linguistically they are very close to Kazakhs and Kazakhs are very Mongoloid (~60% on average).

Yeah. Both languages are classified under Kipchak-Nogai subdivision of Kipchak languages.

[Ilnur]

First, I'd like to explain how I deduced that this sample is a Onogur-Bulgar (Old Great 'Bulgar').

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Giudjenov_Kubrat_and_his_sons.jpg

In the 137 ancient human genomes study (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2), I came across a medieval 'nomad' sample from the Rostov region which had significant Mongoloid ancestry. The previous inhabitants of the region - Scythians and Sarmatians - had a similar profile, but their Mongoloid ancestry was much less in comparison. The Y-DNA of the previous Sarmatians (atleast one) and this sample nevertheless matched;- which hinted at an acculturated continuity between them, and meant that this nomad wasn't a recent immigrant from other parts of Inner Asia.

This sample dates to 1400-1100 ybp, - which coincides with the period of Khazar and Magna Bulgarian domination of Pontic-Caspian steppe; both people were Turkic in origin.

I looked further for information relating to it, and in the process downloaded the Supplementary Information.

Supplementary Table 3 has condensed information on the samples used in the study; the same given below:
https://i.ibb.co/HzgR2wy/20200308-152927.jpg

According to this, all the ten medieval nomads (nine of which were found in Central steppe) were of Turkic heritage. The burial from which this sample was excavated was right in the middle of Old Great Bulgaria, far from where the initial Khazars flourished, - in much eastern locations - on the shores of Caspian Sea, in Dagestan and Astrakhan.

Old Great Bulgariahttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzy6qjkfHlcqrQxZ6A3MC7wm25QHj WuJj1u5xJCsLIDTWp41iG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Old_Great_Bulgaria_and_migration_of_Bulgarians.png/1280px-Old_Great_Bulgaria_and_migration_of_Bulgarians.png

Khazar Khaganatehttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Chasaren.jpg/1280px-Chasaren.jpg



According to this preprint (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.15.876912v1), Khazars excavated from in and around the same region had very high NE Asian (Yakut-like) ancestry, and clustered distantly with IA Scytho-Siberian cultures. This makes it clear that Khazars were migrants from Eastern Siberia, and that they weren't acculturated locals.
https://i.ibb.co/z2jWbcB/6-Screenshot-20191217-125927-Drive.jpg
https://imageup.ru/img181/3525503/autosomy2.png
https://i.ibb.co/hMNBRmb/Screenshot-20191217-230634-Drive.jpg

On a PCA with other ancient/medieval samples, this sample falls at the tail of the steppe cluster.
https://i.ibb.co/jyFqnMm/20200308-123722.jpg

For clarity, https://i.ibb.co/Lkmv9fr/Screenshot-20200308-123549-Drive.jpg


You have a contradiction, in 1 message you write the date 1100-1400 ad, in 2 message you specify the date 620-920 ad.
There were no onogurs in 1100-1400 years, this is the period of the Kipchak invasion, if you specify these dates, it can not be onogur.
Tell me, what do you justify 620-920 ad? P.S. I am a Kazan Tatar, and therefore a descendant of the Volga Bulgarians, who are related to the Bulgarians from the black sea steppes.

Onogur-Bulgar Rostov Steppes
770 AD
DA142
mtDNA: J1c5a1Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 100)
1 SNP chain (min. 60 SNPs) / 28.07 cM
Largest segment=130 SNPs / 28.07 cM
(Sample is too new for user comparison)

[axlredneck]

You have a contradiction, in 1 message you write the date 1100-1400 ad, in 2 message you specify the date 620-920 ad.
There were no onogurs in 1100-1400 years, this is the period of the Kipchak invasion, if you specify these dates, it can not be onogur.
Tell me, what do you justify 620-920 ad? P.S. I am a Kazan Tatar, and therefore a descendant of the Volga Bulgarians, who are related to the Bulgarians from the black sea steppes.

Onogur-Bulgar Rostov Steppes
770 AD
DA142
mtDNA: J1c5a1Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 100)
1 SNP chain (min. 60 SNPs) / 28.07 cM
Largest segment=130 SNPs / 28.07 cM
(Sample is too new for user comparison)

1100-1400 ybp (years before present) = 620-920 CE

I don't justify no dates. I found them on the spreadsheet with information relating to the 137 ancient genomes.

Welcome to the forum!

Ps. Are you a Kazan Tatar or Mishar?

[Ilnur]

1100-1400 ybp (years before present) = 620-920 CE

I don't justify no dates. I found them on the spreadsheet with information relating to the 137 ancient genomes.

Welcome to the forum!

Ps. Are you a Kazan Tatar or Mishar?

Thank you for your prompt response! I hope this is reliable information.

I come from the Urals, my family lived for 300 years surrounded by Bashkirs, after they were forced to leave their native lands.. My family never called themselves Mishars. On calculators, I am equally close to the Kazan Tatars and to the Mishars, in theory there is little difference between us.

MDLP K23b 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar-Kazan @ 4.906849
2 Tatar-Mishar @ 5.800932
3 Tatar @ 5.808203
4 Chuvashs @ 9.282559
5 Tatar_Kryashen @ 9.647030
6 Tatar_Mishar @ 9.723809
7 Tatar-Lithuanian @ 11.239594
8 Tatar_Lithuania @ 11.868806
9 Russian-Ural @ 12.494166
10 Komi @ 12.523430
11 Chuvash @ 12.649119
12 Moksha @ 12.939190
13 Erzya @ 15.356900
14 Swede_Saami @ 16.405827
15 Finn_East @ 17.647505
16 Finn_West @ 17.655132
17 Finnish-East @ 17.933252
18 Mari @ 17.956007
19 Russian_Meshtchyora @ 18.255232
20 Crimean_Tatar_Step @ 18.282972
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar-Kazan @ 4.382379

MDLP World-22 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 5.207479
2 Tatar_Kryashen @ 10.274651
3 Tartar_Mishar @ 11.718913
4 Tatar_Lithuania @ 12.423434
5 Chuvash @ 13.155669
6 Komi @ 16.609554
7 Aleut @ 19.623541
8 German @ 20.498692
9 Bosnian @ 21.519161
10 Hungarian @ 21.627359
11 Mordovian_V @ 22.141579
12 Latvian_V @ 22.350925
13 Croatian @ 22.507551
14 Croatian_V @ 22.761150
15 Serbian @ 22.856308
16 Slovenian @ 23.338936
17 Mordovian @ 23.508129
18 Macedonian @ 23.534315
19 German_V @ 23.692589
20 Mari @ 23.715284
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar @ 5.207479

Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 4.318049
2 Chuvash @ 10.614622
3 Mari @ 16.075468
4 Erzya @ 17.432171
5 Kargopol_Russian @ 18.343380
6 Moldavian @ 19.690903
7 Southwest_Russian @ 19.799109
8 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 19.886105
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 20.080626
10 Ukrainian @ 20.760338
11 Croatian @ 21.121653
12 South_Polish @ 21.894527
13 Russian_Smolensk @ 22.730791
14 East_Finnish @ 22.769283
15 Estonian_Polish @ 23.028818
16 Polish @ 23.463589
17 Hungarian @ 23.720667
18 Belorussian @ 23.801983
19 Finnish @ 24.442749
20 Serbian @ 24.946009
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar @ 4.318049

[Leto]

Thank you for your prompt response! I hope this is reliable information.

I come from the Urals, my family lived for 300 years surrounded by Bashkirs, after they were forced to leave their native lands.. My family never called themselves Mishars. On calculators, I am equally close to the Kazan Tatars and to the Mishars, in theory there is little difference between us.

MDLP K23b 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar-Kazan @ 4.906849
2 Tatar-Mishar @ 5.800932
3 Tatar @ 5.808203
4 Chuvashs @ 9.282559
5 Tatar_Kryashen @ 9.647030
6 Tatar_Mishar @ 9.723809
7 Tatar-Lithuanian @ 11.239594
8 Tatar_Lithuania @ 11.868806
9 Russian-Ural @ 12.494166
10 Komi @ 12.523430
11 Chuvash @ 12.649119
12 Moksha @ 12.939190
13 Erzya @ 15.356900
14 Swede_Saami @ 16.405827
15 Finn_East @ 17.647505
16 Finn_West @ 17.655132
17 Finnish-East @ 17.933252
18 Mari @ 17.956007
19 Russian_Meshtchyora @ 18.255232
20 Crimean_Tatar_Step @ 18.282972
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar-Kazan @ 4.382379

MDLP World-22 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 5.207479
2 Tatar_Kryashen @ 10.274651
3 Tartar_Mishar @ 11.718913
4 Tatar_Lithuania @ 12.423434
5 Chuvash @ 13.155669
6 Komi @ 16.609554
7 Aleut @ 19.623541
8 German @ 20.498692
9 Bosnian @ 21.519161
10 Hungarian @ 21.627359
11 Mordovian_V @ 22.141579
12 Latvian_V @ 22.350925
13 Croatian @ 22.507551
14 Croatian_V @ 22.761150
15 Serbian @ 22.856308
16 Slovenian @ 23.338936
17 Mordovian @ 23.508129
18 Macedonian @ 23.534315
19 German_V @ 23.692589
20 Mari @ 23.715284
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar @ 5.207479

Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 4.318049
2 Chuvash @ 10.614622
3 Mari @ 16.075468
4 Erzya @ 17.432171
5 Kargopol_Russian @ 18.343380
6 Moldavian @ 19.690903
7 Southwest_Russian @ 19.799109
8 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 19.886105
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 20.080626
10 Ukrainian @ 20.760338
11 Croatian @ 21.121653
12 South_Polish @ 21.894527
13 Russian_Smolensk @ 22.730791
14 East_Finnish @ 22.769283
15 Estonian_Polish @ 23.028818
16 Polish @ 23.463589
17 Hungarian @ 23.720667
18 Belorussian @ 23.801983
19 Finnish @ 24.442749
20 Serbian @ 24.946009
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar @ 4.318049
Hi,
Can you post your Eurogenes K13 and Dodecad K12b admixture proportion please?

[Ilnur]

Hi,
Can you post your Eurogenes K13 and Dodecad K12b admixture proportion please?

Hi!
Yes, of course. Is this data enough?

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit RB5132277

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.8
2 North_Atlantic 17.2
3 Siberian 14.79
4 West_Asian 10.92
5 East_Med 6.35
6 West_Med 4.39
7 East_Asian 3.75
8 South_Asian 2.48
9 Red_Sea 1.5
10 Amerindian 1.33
11 Oceanian 0.48

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar 3.86
2 Chuvash 9.8
3 Mari 15.49
4 Erzya 15.99
5 Kargopol_Russian 16.76
6 Southwest_Russian 18.75
7 Moldavian 18.89
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.96
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 19.18
10 Ukrainian 19.65
11 East_Finnish 20.2
12 Croatian 20.21
13 South_Polish 20.64
14 Russian_Smolensk 21.37
15 Estonian_Polish 21.49
16 Finnish 21.79
17 Polish 22.04
18 Hungarian 22.09
19 Belorussian 22.15
20 Serbian 23.26

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Kit RB5132277

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 42.83
2 Atlantic_Med 13.76
3 Siberian 12.39
4 Caucasus 11.47
5 Gedrosia 8.4
6 East_Asian 7.53
7 Southwest_Asian 2.22
8 South_Asian 1.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Chuvashs (Behar) 14.89
2 Hungarians (Behar) 20.64
3 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 22.18
4 Russian (HGDP) 23.39
5 German (Dodecad) 24.26
6 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 24.58
7 Romanians (Behar) 25.03
8 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 25.22
9 Russian (Dodecad) 25.55
10 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 25.94
11 Polish (Dodecad) 26.09
12 Russian_B (Behar) 26.27
13 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 26.62
14 Swedish (Dodecad) 28.1
15 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 28.22
16 Belorussian (Behar) 28.68
17 Dutch (Dodecad) 29.03
18 Norwegian (Dodecad) 29.43
19 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 31.1
20 English (Dodecad) 31.27

[Ilnur]

1100-1400 ybp (years before present) = 620-920 CE

I don't justify no dates. I found them on the spreadsheet with information relating to the 137 ancient genomes.

Welcome to the forum!

Ps. Are you a Kazan Tatar or Mishar?

Here is another example where these dates are indicated, just for this article there is a link

Supplementary Figure 12 - Outgroup-f3 statistics for sample DA142.
DA142 – Region: Rostov
Period: 12th – 14th century AD
Population label: Nomad_Med
https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41586-018-0094-2/MediaObjects/41586_2018_94_MOESM1_ESM.pdf

[Leto]

Hi!
Yes, of course. Is this data enough?

Oh yes, thank you. I've run you through the updated Vahaduo K12b oracle

Distance to: Ilnur
1.98496851 Tatar_Kazan
15.40619356 Chuvashs
20.13346468 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
20.31184876 Bashkir
20.85229963 Bosnian
20.92632075 Hungarians
21.34324249 Croat
23.60933925 Mordovians
24.14881364 Turk_Romania
24.80783949 German

Target: Ilnur
Distance: 1.8698% / 1.86978261 | ADC: 0.5x
98.6 Tatar_Kazan
1.4 Mordovians

Target: Ilnur
Distance: 1.2337% / 1.23368172 | ADC: 0.25x
94.4 Tatar_Kazan
2.2 Mordovians
1.8 Russian
1.2 Saudis
0.4 Tajiks

You are VERY typical. True Tatar(in) :cool:

[axlredneck]

Here is another example where these dates are indicated, just for this article there is a link

Supplementary Figure 12 - Outgroup-f3 statistics for sample DA142.
DA142 – Region: Rostov
Period: 12th – 14th century AD
Population label: Nomad_Med
https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41586-018-0094-2/MediaObjects/41586_2018_94_MOESM1_ESM.pdf

The dates in the Supplementary Information are wrong and misleading. The correct/apt dates are found in the Supplementary Table.

[Ilnur]

Oh yes, thank you. I've run you through the updated Vahaduo K12b oracle

Distance to: Ilnur
1.98496851 Tatar_Kazan
15.40619356 Chuvashs
20.13346468 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
20.31184876 Bashkir
20.85229963 Bosnian
20.92632075 Hungarians
21.34324249 Croat
23.60933925 Mordovians
24.14881364 Turk_Romania
24.80783949 German

Target: Ilnur
Distance: 1.8698% / 1.86978261 | ADC: 0.5x
98.6 Tatar_Kazan
1.4 Mordovians

Target: Ilnur
Distance: 1.2337% / 1.23368172 | ADC: 0.25x
94.4 Tatar_Kazan
2.2 Mordovians
1.8 Russian
1.2 Saudis
0.4 Tajiks

You are VERY typical. True Tatar(in) :cool:

Cool! Thank you very much!

[Ilnur]

The dates in the Supplementary Information are wrong and misleading. The correct/apt dates are found in the Supplementary Table.

I am very grateful for your patience and feedback.

[axlredneck]

I am very grateful for your patience and feedback.

:)

[axlredneck]

I am very grateful for your patience and feedback.

You like the thread?

[itilvolga]

Great thread! If this is indeed Bulgar, his genetic profile is very similar to Magyar conquerors, who also come closest to Bashkirs and Tatars according to last paper on them.
I always suspected there was connection between the two.

Of course there was a connection between Bulgars and Magyars. I recommend you searching about the Dulo Dynasty.


The Dulo clan was a ruling dynasty of the Bulgars. It is intimately related to the origin and activity of the Huns and Western Turkic Khaganate. Particularly, it is said that the Dulo descended from the rulers of Great Bulgaria, which was founded by Khan *****ukh's (679-700) father on the steppes of Ukraine.

And guess what: Attila is from the Dulo clan :D

Also I wanna show you another thing, you would be interested in my opinion:

The symbol of Dulo (Hun-Bulgar):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Khans_Dulo_of_Bulgaria.jpg

The symbol of Kayi (Oghuz):
https://n11scdn.akamaized.net/a1/450/mucevher-saat/sac-aksesuari/dirilis-kayi-boyu-simgesi-tattoo-dovme-sablonu__1348562151203190.jpg

[Ilnur]

You like the thread?

Sure. Before that, our connection was only based on historical and ethnic materials, now this is confirmed by genetics. By the way, in addition to the Tatars, this Onogur also has Chuvash relatives, and they are the only ones who still keep the R-Turkic language, which convinces me of the correctness of your conclusions.

[Leto]

Sure. Before that, our connection was only based on historical and ethnic materials, now this is confirmed by genetics. By the way, in addition to the Tatars, this Onogur also has Chuvash relatives, and they are the only ones who still keep the R-Turkic language, which convinces me of the correctness of your conclusions.
So in your opinion Volga Tatars are basically Kypchak by language only? Genetically more Bulgar plus pre-Bulgar elements and some Golden Horde-era influence?

[axlredneck]

Here's an academic Mishar sample (shared by Leto previously)

https://i.ibb.co/7Rbm251/Tatar-Mishar.png

[Leto]

The Mishars are the Westernmost Tatars basically (Penza, Mordovia, Nizhny Novgorod), west of those cities Volga Tatar settlements are virtually non-existent (I think Kasimov, Ryazan oblast was probably the Westernmost one but that's a small town and few Tatars remain there today). So it's not surprising they are also the least Mongoloid/East Eurasian of all Tatars. But then again, that's just one sample.

[Ilnur]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4fyGtwWJTMI/UKpNK618KvI/AAAAAAAAHd4/3X5GQF0efE8/s1600/preironage.pnghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k1IjPrySLkI/UKpQDf0O_3I/AAAAAAAAHe0/aOeYkVyPI6g/s1600/ironage.png

TA2 = Tatars

97047

I don't know how much of this data can be trusted, but here's what my results show on the site https://mytrueancestry.com/

Sarmatians 30,7%, Cimmerians 11,1%, Huns 11%, Scythians 10,1%, Avars 7,52%, Proto-Hungarians 5,96%, Kievan Rus 3,39%, Vikings (Swedish) 2,8%, Baltic Tribes 2,25%, Gauls 1,91%, Gepids 1,75%, Visigoths 1,75%, Thuringii 1,55%, Early Slavs 1,37%, Celts 1,36%, Ottomans 1,28%, Ostrogoths 1,25%, Byzantine Empire 1,14%, Longobards 0,94%, Han Dynasty 0,71%

The majority of Tatars, Mishars and Chuvash people have the same data.

[axlredneck]

97047

I don't know how much of this data can be trusted, but here's what my results show on the site https://mytrueancestry.com/

Sarmatians 30,7%, Cimmerians 11,1%, Huns 11%, Scythians 10,1%, Avars 7,52%, Proto-Hungarians 5,96%, Kievan Rus 3,39%, Vikings (Swedish) 2,8%, Baltic Tribes 2,25%, Gauls 1,91%, Gepids 1,75%, Visigoths 1,75%, Thuringii 1,55%, Early Slavs 1,37%, Celts 1,36%, Ottomans 1,28%, Ostrogoths 1,25%, Byzantine Empire 1,14%, Longobards 0,94%, Han Dynasty 0,71%

The majority of Tatars, Mishars and Chuvash people have the same data.

I dunno about the MTA stuff, but Chuvash are not the same as Tatars.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTcSc3hRef9lNV6BdxBIBl-TeXspApEaBNKOkrs9ubaPvaqflPz&usqp=CAU
CU = Chuvash

[Ilnur]

The Mishars are the Westernmost Tatars basically (Penza, Mordovia, Nizhny Novgorod), west of those cities Volga Tatar settlements are virtually non-existent (I think Kasimov, Ryazan oblast was probably the Westernmost one but that's a small town and few Tatars remain there today). So it's not surprising they are also the least Mongoloid/East Eurasian of all Tatars. But then again, that's just one sample.

I compared a lot of Mishars samples. There are exceptions among them, all sub-ethnic Tatars are far from them, but there are not many of them. For the most part, the results are very similar to the results of other Tatars.
Here is in my genes on the idea of, too, Mishars there is, me in ftdna go in relatedness Penza, Nizhny Novgorod Mishari, as and Tatars with all other regions Middle Volga region.. By the way, most of the Mishars migrated to the land of the Bashkirs and Urals.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = itilvolga; 6611408] Разбира се, имаше връзка между българите и маджарите. Препоръчвам ви да търсите за династията Дуло.



И познайте какво: Атила е от клана Дуло. :D

Също така искам да ви покажа друго нещо, бихте се интересували от моето мнение:

Символът на Дуло (Хун-Булгар):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Khans_Dulo_of_Bulgaria.jpg

Символът на Кай (Огуз):
https://n11scdn.akamaized.net/a1/450/mucevher-saat/sac-aksesuari/dirilis-kayi-boyu-simgesi-tattoo-dovme-sablonu__1348562151203190.jpg[/ ЦИТО]

These are the real tamgams of the Oguz family, including Kayı. As you can see, it has nothing to do with the copy that Ertugrul became popular with

https://i.ibb.co/kXvTG4h/29872146-2095149447165895-7581226541117252999-o.jpg

[Ilnur]

I dunno about the MTA stuff, but Chuvash are not the same as Tatars.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTcSc3hRef9lNV6BdxBIBl-TeXspApEaBNKOkrs9ubaPvaqflPz&usqp=CAU
CU = Chuvash
I apologize, but it is not clear who is and where the Tatars are, and where the Chuvash are.

Here are the MTA data. Where red star-is Chuvash. Where Ilnur is specified-my results.
97048

[axlredneck]

I apologize, but it is not clear who is and where the Tatars are, and where the Chuvash are.

Here are the MTA data. Where red star-is Chuvash. Where Ilnur is specified-my results.
97048

Tatars = TA, Bashkir = bas, UD = Udmurt, CU = Chuvash, ME = Mari, MO = Mordvin.

Ps. This, and neither the previous PCA quoted by you are of autosomal data; they're of mtDNA. I'll share the autosomal PCAs later.

[Ilnur]

I dunno about the MTA stuff, but Chuvash are not the same as Tatars.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTcSc3hRef9lNV6BdxBIBl-TeXspApEaBNKOkrs9ubaPvaqflPz&usqp=CAU
CU = Chuvash

And this is a sample of the Onogur nomad from Rostov97050

[axlredneck]

If you're hinging your opinion on the basis of MTA, I would suggest you not to do so. MTA is a fun tool to satisfy your fantasies of being related to some ancient folks. There's little truth in that, it's mostly bogus!

[Ilnur]

Tatars = TA, Bashkir = bas, UD = Udmurt, CU = Chuvash, ME = Mari, MO = Mordvin.

Ps. This, and neither the previous PCA quoted by are of autosomal data; they're of mtDNA. I'll share the autosomal PCAs later.

Thank you, so these are female lines on the X chromosome. I wonder if the Chuvash and Bashkir women are Finno-Ugric, and the Tatars are European?

[Ilnur]

Tatars = TA, Bashkir = bas, UD = Udmurt, CU = Chuvash, ME = Mari, MO = Mordvin.

Ps. This, and neither the previous PCA quoted by are of autosomal data; they're of mtDNA. I'll share the autosomal PCAs later.

Thank you, so these are female lines on the X chromosome. I wonder if the Chuvash and Bashkir women are Finno-Ugric, and the Tatars are European?

[axlredneck]

Thank you, so these are female lines on the X chromosome. I wonder if the Chuvash and Bashkir women are Finno-Ugric, and the Tatars are European?

It seems to suggest mostly this. I'll look for other research papers aswell.

Here's a PCA of the mtDNA of Tagar Scythians; Bashkirs here look very eastern.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQYDFM6Sbn4jMBsg312DFRoc5bFwmK 9IOtld9Q1dK7VdJ4Sjv3b&usqp=CAU

[Kaspias]

Thank you, so these are female lines on the X chromosome. I wonder if the Chuvash and Bashkir women are Finno-Ugric, and the Tatars are European?

I don't know if this information will help you, but Chuvash heavily shifts to Ugric cluster genetically, while Bashkir is heavily Turkic, even can be used as a proxy for Proto-Turks.

Welcome btw.

[axlredneck]

I don't know if this information will help you, but Chuvash heavily shifts to Ugric cluster genetically, while Bashkir is heavily Turkic, even can be used as a proxy for Proto-Turks.

Welcome btw.

Exactly! An average of Bashkirs/Siberian Tatars can be used as a proxy for Bulgars. Only those that score this ancestry are eligible to claim Bulgar ancestry!

[Ilnur]

If you're hinging your opinion on the basis of MTA, I would suggest you not to do so. MTA is a fun tool to satisfy your fantasies of being related to some ancient folks. There's little truth in that, it's mostly bogus!

You may be right. But in the case of DA142, it really worked out for me, for the Chuvash, and for the Bashkirs.

[Ilnur]

I don't know if this information will help you, but Chuvash heavily shifts to Ugric cluster genetically, while Bashkir is heavily Turkic, even can be used as a proxy for Proto-Turks.

Welcome btw.

Thanks!

[axlredneck]

Perhaps you are right. But in the case of DA142, it really came out and I and the Chuvash and the Bashkirs.

https://i.ibb.co/jyFqnMm/20200308-123722.jpg

Here's the PCA from the original study. One of the Medieval nomad (upside down blue triangle) is this Bulgar - on the Steppe Cline. Neither Tatars nor Chuvash are located in its vicinity. Instead Bashkirs and Siberian Tatars are located here.
Chuvash are characterised by Ugric ancestry (and are located outside of the Steppe-MLBA cline) whereas Tatars, Bashkirs and this sample are characterised by Ulchi like ancestry!

[Dunai]

What is the consensus among Turkic and Russian scholars regarding what happened to Magyars living in Magna Hungaria in the 13th century still? Was the population completely wiped out by the Mongol Tatars, or were they gradually assimilated into the newly arrived nomads?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friar_Julian

[Kaspias]

What is the consensus among Turkic and Russian scholars regarding what happened to Magyars living in Magna Hungaria in the 13th century still? Was the population completely wiped out by the Mongol Tatars, or were they gradually assimilated into the newly arrived nomads?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friar_Julian

To be honest I haven't seen any Turkish scholars argues about it, but I will be searching.

What is your opinion about this?

https://mta.hu/tudomany_hirei/julianus-barat-keleti-magyarjainak-genetikai-nyomara-bukkanhattak-a-kutatok-109751

[Dunai]

To be honest I haven't seen any Turkish scholars argues about it, but I will be searching.

What is your opinion about this?

https://mta.hu/tudomany_hirei/julianus-barat-keleti-magyarjainak-genetikai-nyomara-bukkanhattak-a-kutatok-109751

I read the article and it's basically a shortened description of a recent study, which I believe was posted on page 1 about Conqueror Magyars were the closest genetically to today's Volga Tatars and Bashkirs. It also say that they found a very particular Y-chromosome which was only shared between Ugric people and Bashkirs and to a smaller extent Volga Tatars. They speculate that genetically some of the Magna Hungaria population have transmitted their genes to Bashkirs and Volga Tatars. However if it's this the case I still don't know why aren't there Ugric, specifically Magyar loanwords in the languages of Bashkirs and Volga Tatars? At least this is what I read somewhere.

[Ilnur]

https://i.ibb.co/jyFqnMm/20200308-123722.jpg

Here's the PCA from the original study. One of the Medieval nomad (upside down blue triangle) is this Bulgar - on the Steppe Cline. Neither Tatars nor Chuvash are located in its vicinity. Instead Bashkirs and Siberian Tatars are located here.
Chuvash are characterised by Ugric ancestry (and are located outside of the Steppe-MLBA cline) whereas Tatars, Bashkirs and this sample are characterised by Ulchi like ancestry!

DA142,
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
Single Population Sharing:
Population (source) Distancе
1 Tatar 14.43
2 Chuvash 18.51
3 Mari 18.9
4 Afghan_Turkmen 19.07
5 Nogay 23.31
6 Uzbeki 23.41
7 Shors 25.26
8 Aghan_Hazara 26.8
9 Kazakh 26.96
10 Hazara 28.29
11 Uygur 28.36
12 Hakas 29.31
13 Moldavian 30.65
14 Erzya 30.66
15 Kargopol_Russian 30.68
16 Tadjik 31.19
17 Kirgiz 31.21
18 Hungarian 32.31
19 Ukrainian_Lviv 32.44
20 Croatian 32.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.6% Tatar + 33.4% Shors @ 7.97
2 74.8% Tatar + 25.2% Altaian @ 8.32
3 70.5% Tatar + 29.5% Hakas @ 8.38
4 83.3% Tatar + 16.7% Yakut @ 8.47

This utility does not have Bashkir http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,4190.60.html

[axlredneck]

This utility does not have Bashkir http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,4190.60.html

Distance to: Bulgar
4.82819842 Bashkir
17.35919065 Tatar
22.08035099 uzbek
22.54370200 chuvash
24.37796956 turkmen-afghanistan
25.17927521 kazakh
28.12471867 uyghur
29.32538832 hazara
29.94548714 kyrgyz2
31.30276026 kyrgyz1
31.91800119 nogai
32.27293603 pamiri-rushan
32.40267119 altaian
32.81776805 pamiri-shughnan
32.96583990 tajik
33.42094254 tajik-nw-afghanistan
33.42829490 uzbek-afghanistan
33.74819995 yaghnobi
34.16379663 serbian
34.49504892 romanian-a
35.53066281 hungarian
35.73909064 selkup
35.78797424 pamiri-ishkashim
35.85458827 bulgarian
36.07435377 singapore-indian-d

[itilvolga]

These are the real tamgams of the Oguz family, including Kayı. As you can see, it has nothing to do with the copy that Ertugrul became popular with

https://i.ibb.co/kXvTG4h/29872146-2095149447165895-7581226541117252999-o.jpg

Lol no

The tamga of Kayi was already well known, it’s not a made up symbol which is used only in the series of Dirilis and Kurulus.

You can see the symbol on historical artifacts from the Ottoman Era:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQMZ-3b8-5M5jzZ6yofsU3ZIG8hWivG4YwnnrgZtzFTOi514w5U&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRvtFBW3VlcsuXeUaVgHIW4cEHVHAb xdOL1YAbEmBj2rCb8GDx4&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTje4uijnufjb9n58EbO1WKx5Cwx48 U7SDihyrp9Jx7Z6NzLPg3&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS3pNCWVAwhgi5pgJg5A5qDQjuu7TU Dst86O4bo9uc06h1TNl0_&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSUJIc2qFNbVSDo5ZgTKl8wmUJKp9r TKLm8ImgDZXGr3I3z-Hzl&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTsAAfLIgH0Li82ETpqriOlod6LFpM _Q9kakZQliyTFsHfDojD4&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTEI5LOmQOH9yKDQt5S09aNNCJp0hx 80n_7YwgTJNgELTnWBX7g&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTgoz5vslMQdbj5hakbEdB51R4VHhE tpYSTvFIsI6Q8YeZvla4B&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSfR2sr2jeCtwhGzI7fcdWTz08aCIU pteLUyLkeQtNfp0pVKXqT&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRPO7Iak4NmAvgBz3WgHWHjE5Xn9-BjyrOVCYKi_r9MBMh5X_y8&usqp=CAU

[StefanSmith]

hey alex
i have some questions about these samples
as someone who is half bulgarian im really interested in khan kubrat
please email me at stefansmith367@gmail.com

[Lucas]

interesting

[Leto]

Population
Gedrosia 9.84 Pct
Siberian 22.51 Pct
Northwest_African 0.06 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 10.67 Pct
North_European 32.10 Pct
South_Asian 0.53 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian -
East_Asian 15.08 Pct
Caucasus 8.91 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.30 Pct
Distance to: Bulgar
4.96858129 Bashkir_South
7.55230428 Bashkir_Central
8.62320706 Tatar_Siberia
12.99991923 Bashkir_North
14.55041924 Tatar_Lipka
14.92531072 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
16.51393957 Tatar_Kazan
16.54045042 Besermyan_Udmurtia
16.99782633 Tatar_Zabolotniye
17.07370786 Mari

Target: Bulgar
Distance: 229.8394% / 2.29839354 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.6 Bashkir_South
35.8 Bashkir_Central
6.0 Nogai_Astrakhan
2.6 Spanish_Basque

Target: Bulgar
Distance: 207.4014% / 2.07401350 | R3P
45.0 Tatar_Kazan
36.8 Bashkir_South
18.2 Altaian_Kizhi

[Fried]

delete

[Fried]

I think this sample is not an Onogur and not a Bulgar. There were no
Onogurs and Bulgars in the Don basin in the period from the XIth to the XIVth century
AD (this is how this sample is dated in the appropriate article). In that times the Onogurs did not exist anymore and the Bulgars lived either in the Volga basin or in the Danube basin. This sample is rather a Don Cuman or even a Don Alan (of the pure steppe ancestry), because, according to Giosaphat Barbaro, who lived in the city of Azov in XV century, the nomadic Alans lived in the Lower Don basin until the Mongol invasion in the XIIIth century and there were many Alanish mound burials in the steppes along the Don river.

[Fried]

Thank you for your prompt response! I hope this is reliable information.

I come from the Urals, my family lived for 300 years surrounded by Bashkirs, after they were forced to leave their native lands.. My family never called themselves Mishars. On calculators, I am equally close to the Kazan Tatars and to the Mishars, in theory there is little difference between us.

MDLP K23b 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar-Kazan @ 4.906849
2 Tatar-Mishar @ 5.800932
3 Tatar @ 5.808203
4 Chuvashs @ 9.282559
5 Tatar_Kryashen @ 9.647030
6 Tatar_Mishar @ 9.723809
7 Tatar-Lithuanian @ 11.239594
8 Tatar_Lithuania @ 11.868806
9 Russian-Ural @ 12.494166
10 Komi @ 12.523430
11 Chuvash @ 12.649119
12 Moksha @ 12.939190
13 Erzya @ 15.356900
14 Swede_Saami @ 16.405827
15 Finn_East @ 17.647505
16 Finn_West @ 17.655132
17 Finnish-East @ 17.933252
18 Mari @ 17.956007
19 Russian_Meshtchyora @ 18.255232
20 Crimean_Tatar_Step @ 18.282972
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar-Kazan @ 4.382379

MDLP World-22 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 5.207479
2 Tatar_Kryashen @ 10.274651
3 Tartar_Mishar @ 11.718913
4 Tatar_Lithuania @ 12.423434
5 Chuvash @ 13.155669
6 Komi @ 16.609554
7 Aleut @ 19.623541
8 German @ 20.498692
9 Bosnian @ 21.519161
10 Hungarian @ 21.627359
11 Mordovian_V @ 22.141579
12 Latvian_V @ 22.350925
13 Croatian @ 22.507551
14 Croatian_V @ 22.761150
15 Serbian @ 22.856308
16 Slovenian @ 23.338936
17 Mordovian @ 23.508129
18 Macedonian @ 23.534315
19 German_V @ 23.692589
20 Mari @ 23.715284
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar @ 5.207479

Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 4.318049
2 Chuvash @ 10.614622
3 Mari @ 16.075468
4 Erzya @ 17.432171
5 Kargopol_Russian @ 18.343380
6 Moldavian @ 19.690903
7 Southwest_Russian @ 19.799109
8 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 19.886105
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 20.080626
10 Ukrainian @ 20.760338
11 Croatian @ 21.121653
12 South_Polish @ 21.894527
13 Russian_Smolensk @ 22.730791
14 East_Finnish @ 22.769283
15 Estonian_Polish @ 23.028818
16 Polish @ 23.463589
17 Hungarian @ 23.720667
18 Belorussian @ 23.801983
19 Finnish @ 24.442749
20 Serbian @ 24.946009
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar +50% Tatar @ 4.318049
The true Volga Bulgars' descendants are the Chuvashs speaking their own Chuvash language deriving from the Ancient Bulgarian (non-Slavic, Onogur) language. You are a Tatar, and these calculations show this, so you are hardly of the ancient Bulgar ancestry, as I suppose.

[Fried]

I think this sample is not an Onogur and not a Bulgar. There were no
Onogurs and Bulgars in the Don basin in the period from the XIth to the XIVth century
AD (this is how this sample is dated in the appropriate article). In that times the Onogurs did not exist anymore and the Bulgars lived either in the Volga basin or in the Danube basin. This sample is rather a Don Cuman or even a Don Alan (of the pure steppe ancestry), because, according to Giosaphat Barbaro, who lived in the city of Azov in XV century, the nomadic Alans lived in the Lower Don basin until the Mongol invasion in the XIIIth century and there were many Alanish mound burials in the steppes along the Don river.

There was my mistake from the very beginning - its age is 1400-1100 YBP, not AD ( I repeated the mistake of the Ancient Human DNA project on the UMAP, thanks to its author) https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/47.436/39.902.
Thus he could be an Onogur-Bulgar (according to Prokopy Kesarian, in the VIth century there were Hunnic tribes of the Kutrigurs to the east from Maeotian Lake and Utigurs to the west), but also could be a Don Alan, since the real steppe nomadic Alans lived in the Lower Don basin and had no Caucasian background unlike how Peter De Barros Damgaard imagines them.

[axlredneck]

A Balkan Bulgar's results can be found here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?374477-I2525-Danube-Bulgar-on-G25).

[zarni0]

Great thread! If this is indeed Bulgar, his genetic profile is very similar to Magyar conquerors, who also come closest to Bashkirs and Tatars according to last paper on them.
I always suspected there was connection between the two.

There is a bit of a problem here though. Modern bulgarians have the lowest east asian admixture out of any sampled ethnicity in europe.
The bulgars of the 7th century were said to have been numerous when they invaded the Danube delta and below the danube. They effectivey beat the full roman army at the time.
How does such a numerous people just disolve and their supposed east asian admixture simply disappear in their descendents?
There is a problem here obviously and most likely they did not die out and miraculously refrain from procreating.

[DomitiusAurelian]

Target: Domitius_scaled
Distance: 1.9921% / 0.01992074
69.2 Anatolian
30.8 Onogundur_Bulgar

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/WBW-o7KDneE