People from Reggio Calabria (probably the darkest Italians), closer to Provence or Turkey?

[Gondor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwRv25ztBLg

[eatensemn]

Turkey has over 80 millions of people, can't be generalised. I can say most people in this video would be in the mid-range in turkey,

[gixajo]

Always far closer to Provence.

[gixajo]

Turkey has over 80 millions of people, can't be generalised. I can say most people in this video would be in the mid-range in turkey,

The question is clear. Closer to Turkey or Provence?

It´s an absurd question , I know, but easy to answer.

[eatensemn]

Sure very easy to answer. I haven't seen this amount of white people without africans around anywhere in france so answer is very easy turkey. ^^

[Cristiano viejo]

Provenza.

[Anaximander]

Provence, if u take a closer look, some of the darkies are from muslim families and they wear scarfs.

[Ethel]

Turkey is too diverse to generalize like this, if we're talking about greek settled cities in Turkey like Izmir or Kos, then they're surely close to them, whereas compared to eastern Turks or Cypriots, then Provençal comes first.

[Samnium]

Provence, and you're vastly exagerating their darkness I would say.

IMO Reggio Calabria isn't at all the "darkest" or the "most exotic" calabrian province, you have to look at Vibo Valentia.

[Gondor]

Provence, and you're vastly exagerating their darkness I would say.

IMO Reggio Calabria isn't at all the "darkest" or the "most exotic" calabrian province, you have to look at Vibo Valentia.

I completly totally disagree a lot, I've been in Vibo, Catanzaro, Cosenza, Crotone, the Locride area, and Reggio Calabria. I think that Reggio Calabria e than the Locride are by far the darkest Italians, there is almost no nordics there, even in Sicily you always 5-10% of light phenotypes. Maybe yuo find less Maghrebi looking people than Sicily but overall these people are dark as fuck.
These are two videos in Vibo Valentia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=himKXd-yoxo&list=LLdfG6k-sXr_mQ72zURIIdLQ&index=2&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iBSSJFgnoE
Overall the rest of Calabria, especially north of Catanzaro and around Cosenza people look more like Puglia and Campanians, some exotic types but many standard Italians types and some nordics, overall I think that even Vibo Valentia is intermediate between Tuscany/Marche and Reggio Calabria. Honestly compared to Tuscans, the only difference is the lack of blondes, otherwise people look very standard IMO

[Samnium]

I completly totally disagree a lot, I've been in Vibo, Catanzaro, Cosenza, Crotone, the Locride area, and Reggio Calabria. I think that Reggio Calabria e than the Locride are by far the darkest Italians, there is almost no nordics there, even in Sicily you always 5-10% of light phenotypes. Maybe yuo find less Maghrebi looking people than Sicily but overall these people are dark as fuck.
These are two videos in Vibo Valentia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=himKXd-yoxo&list=LLdfG6k-sXr_mQ72zURIIdLQ&index=2&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iBSSJFgnoE
Overall the rest of Calabria, especially north of Catanzaro and around Cosenza people look more like Puglia and Campanians, some exotic types but many standard Italians types and some nordics, overall I think that even Vibo Valentia is intermediate between Tuscany/Marche and Reggio Calabria. Honestly compared to Tuscans, the only difference is the lack of blondes, unless people look very standard IMO

IMO I've seen many exotic types coming from Vibo Valentia, don't know why but at the same time I agree that there are also very few Nordics/Nordid influenced types in Reggio Calabria.

Part of my italian side is from Southern Cosenza (southern part of the province) near Sila, and many of them look like N.Italian/French, do you noticed this trend as well in some parts of Cosenza (I've noticed it but I ask you) ?

There is also something that could explain the fact that Cosenza differs : there were many "local" inputs like Arbereshe, a village of Southern France in Guardia Piemontese, but also recent migrations of Greeks without forgetting Normans/Longobards. They have likely influenced the local look.

Only in the village of my calabrian ancestors there were soldiers from Charles V army that were left. I think many little "historical facts" like that can explain that.

And I agree that Tuscans have more blondes definitely.

[Gondor]

IMO I've seen many exotic types coming from Vibo Valentia, don't know why but at the same time I agree that there are also very few Nordics/Nordid influenced types in Reggio Calabria.

Part of my italian side is from Southern Cosenza (southern part of the province) near Sila, and many of them look like N.Italian/French, do you noticed this trend as well in some parts of Cosenza (I've noticed it but I ask you) ?

There is also something that could explain the fact that Cosenza differs : there were many "local" inputs like Arbereshe, a village of Southern France in Guardia Piemontese, but also recent migrations of Greeks without forgetting Normans/Longobards. They have likely influenced the local look.

Only in the village of my calabrian ancestors there were soldiers from Charles V army that were left. I think many little "historical facts" like that can explain that.

And I agree that Tuscans have more blondes definitely.

Even genetically near Cosenza people are less East-Med, my theory that the Griko people were actually from Crete/Cryprus or even from Anatolia, and they added an addional east-med element to Calabria. The last Griko speakers are basically just in Southern Calabria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabrian_Greek#/media/File:Greco_calabro.png.
And yes, the Norman influence really defines West Sicily vs East Sicily, and it could be the same for other parts of Southern Italy, but it's hard to tell, IMO area with more nordic types in Southern Italy coincide with Norman settlements.

[Samnium]

Even genetically near Cosenza people are less East-Med, my theory that the Griko people were actually from Crete/Cryprus or even from Anatolia, and they added an addional east-med element to Calabria. The last Griko speakers are basically just in Southern Calabria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabrian_Greek#/media/File:Greco_calabro.png.


Griko people aren't different genetically to people from the area where they live. My guess : "hellenized" locals. I would say.





And yes, the Norman influence really defines West Sicily vs East Sicily, and it could be the same for other parts of Southern Italy, but it's hard to tell, IMO area with more nordic types in Southern Italy coincide with Norman settlements.

In my own italian "side" I've redhead relatives (and not only one), I've always thought that could come for Normans, definitely. Because it's not something that appears at very high rates normally.

I think in addition that there are differences between coastal areas and inland, as well urban areas and countryside. The inland countryside look different from people of the coast and from urban areas like Catanzaro. In Calabria mountains played a great role as a "border" between different provinces. It also allowed a great endogamy between very near villages, so you know, there are probably many intra-provincial variations. I've noticed also in Cosenza elevated Italo-Celtic haplogroups (sometimes the only area in S.italy with a so high incidence of one subclade, similar to Central Italy/Central-Northern Italians regions), probably because of Bruttians that lived there (Italic people).

One thing to take in account is that there are many people in Calabria with partial jewish ancestry. So that might influence also the looks. Some armenian input also in some areas. Without forgetting Byzainte (Levantine or Caucasians) that settled a bit in Southern Calabria.

It looks quite like Sicily but with different ethnical groups (not Phoenicians or Arabs but Armenians and Byzantines Levantines or Caucasians)...

[Gondor]

Griko over time might have been homogenized. Yes, jews could be a thing too. In some genetic results I've seen some Calabrians with high North Africans and SSA but most of them have very little or none. I don't exclude that there are some recent medieval arab influence, probably localized like in Sicily, especially on the SE part of Calabria, I know various people from that coast that I thought they were half black or something like that. I'm surprised that in this forums they haven't found them yet, probably they think that they are migrants. But you don't see this very exotic types in Puglia, Campania or even North of Catanzaro and in the Cosenza area. You see some people that look like non-arabid Levantines, but that's expected considering that they are 20% Anatolia/Levant. IMO, you don't see Turk looking people anywhere, probably the Turanid admixture never reached Italy.

[Samnium]

Griko over time might have been homogenized. Yes, jews could be a thing too. In some genetic results I've seen some Calabrians with high North Africans and SSA but most of them have very little or none. I don't exclude that there are some recent medieval arab influence, probably localized like in Sicily, especially on the SE part of Calabria, I know various people from that coast that I thought they were half black or something like that.

Yes the part of the coast facing Sicily is also thought as being quite exotic, and I've seen various results in this area and they are outlying. There are Calabrians without SSA and NA, but with very low Steppe.



I'm surprised that in this forums they haven't found them yet, probably they think that they are migrants. But you don't see this very exotic types in Puglia, Campania or even North of Catanzaro and in the Cosenza area. You see some people that look like non-arabid Levantines, but that's expected considering that they are 20% Anatolia/Levant. IMO, you don't see Turk looking people, probably the Turanid admixture never reached Italy.

I entirely agree you see slight exotic types, people that look generally East Med and that could pass in Lebanon, but you know it's not something very "exotic" like you said. There are few people that might pass in Turkey but usually it's a minority.

In my calabrian family from Cosenza area there are some people that could pass as atypical in Turkey but it's a tiny minority, otherwise they don't have at all "Southernish" features or "Levantine", on average. I can send you an imgur in PM if you want (calabrian pictures, they are all 100% calabrian).

[Gondor]

Yeah, Cosenza looks like a different country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wdc-ekIko8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm7oEFqwOr8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1mgoky3AZY

[Samnium]

Yeah, Cosenza looks like a different country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wdc-ekIko8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm7oEFqwOr8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1mgoky3AZY

I made two threads showing Cosentians :

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?304055-Cosentian-people-(area-around-Cosenza)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?304542-Marzi-and-Rogliano-Cosenza-(inland-Calabria)

One is the villages of my calabrian ancestors (Marzi and Rogliano), another is a more general thread with many cosentians. I think it's amazing the diversity that there's in a region like that.

And yes indeed it looks like a completely different country. Different phenotypes and different pigmentation, great contrast with other calabrian areas. Interesting, in the videos that you've sent I've seen many womens with chestnut/a bit redhair tones/very light brown hair, something that you don't see in the videos of Reggio Calabria clearly (but I knowed about that).

[Avgvstvs]

Very interesting thread,i'm thinking of opening similar ones about Central Italians from certain areas.....

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[MinervaItalica]

Leave that goddamn region alone fcs. They are close to other Europeans.

Op mind your country.

[Samnium]

Very interesting thread,i'm thinking of opening similar ones about Central Italians from certain areas.....

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

Regional/Provincial differences in look, it's a very interesting subject ! You see really the incredible phenotypical variation amongst Italians in look, pigmentation...

[Avgvstvs]

Regional/Provincial differences in look, it's a very interesting subject ! You see really the incredible phenotypical variation amongst Italians in look, pigmentation...Yes,i find it very interesting too

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Gondor]

Other videos from the area near the Aspromonte where I think that people are particularly dark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DcmHC-2jes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW0wWxc4yw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xxO43wnOzc


Also people from the Catanzaro area, just 50km north, somewhat different IMO, maybe in between Cosenza and Reggio (but closer to Cosenza, close to Salento too), quite a mistery, maybe like a founder effect of more Med traits or natural selection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKN73QYK-gE

[Gondor]

Interesting enough even by cherry picking videos of dark Calabrians you can still spot the MENA in these crowds, and also they far better looking and more Euro looking than the extras in american Mafia movies :p.

[Samnium]

I think that foundry effects played a role as well, Calabria was a very isolated region before Fascist era, so someone has to take in account that in addition to genetical groups.

Aspromonte is the home of calabrian mafia

[trebil]

con tutto quello che sta accadendo in Italia e nel resto del mondo, un numero crescente di morti, ma davvero ci sono utenti italiani come voi che riaprono vecchie, stupide e inutili discussioni nordiciste sugli italiani?

ma non vi vergognate neanche un po'?

[Gondor]

Ma leggi l'Inglese? Di certo non abbiamo avuto una prospettiva nordicista nella discussione

[Samnium]

con tutto quello che sta accadendo in Italia e nel resto del mondo, un numero crescente di morti, ma davvero ci sono utenti italiani come voi che riaprono vecchie, stupide e inutili discussioni nordiciste sugli italiani?

ma non vi vergognate neanche un po'?

Non sono un nordicista e me ne fregho di chi è più chiaro o no.

Sono in parte italiano, sono interessato dalla Calabria perchè qualche dei miei antenati vivevano qua.

[Gondor]

La prospettiva nordicista è chi vuol mettere tutti i mediterranei insieme, che non ha senso, che c'è la Palestina e la Francia sul mediterraneo, noi diciamo che i Calabresi sono Italiani scuri, che non c'è niente di male, e non diciamo che sono altro. Chiaramente il 90% persone in questi video passa come Italiano prima di qualsiasi altro paese. Io sono per un'Italia unita e i leghisti mi fanno cagare, tanto per parlar chiaro.

[trebil]

gondor stai solo prendendo per il culo te stesso, sei un razzista non solo un nordicista, la tua frase sui curdi che in italia vengono scambiati per zingari solo un razzista e nordicista la può scrivere

alla fine quelli come te finiscono solo per creare shitstorm contro gli italiani

[Gondor]

gondor stai solo prendendo per il culo te stesso, sei un razzista non solo un nordicista, la tua frase sui curdi che in italia vengono scambiati per zingari solo un razzista e nordicista la può scrivere

alla fine quelli come te finiscono solo per creare shitstorm contro gli italiani

contento te, io ho cercato su google image, e se vedo uno così per strada non penso sia un arabo

[Gondor]

gondor stai solo prendendo per il culo te stesso, sei un razzista non solo un nordicista, la tua frase sui curdi che in italia vengono scambiati per zingari solo un razzista e nordicista la può scrivere

alla fine quelli come te finiscono solo per creare shitstorm contro gli italiani

https://www.arabnews.com/sites/default/files/styles/n_670_395/public/2019/12/05/1873746-1603837374.jpg?itok=fAbGnzQ3

ora dimmi te se vedi a giro questi della foto che pensi te? Che sono Libanesi o Turchi o Egiziani? No, lo sai anche te

[trebil]

a parte che questo sarà tipo il tuo trentesimo account su Apricity tu sei venuto solo per far casino e far partire altri shitstorm contro gli italiani

[Gondor]

rispondimi

[Tauromachos]

More like Greeks

[MinervaItalica]

Other videos from the area near the Aspromonte where I think that people are particularly dark

Also people from the Catanzaro area, just 50km north, somewhat different IMO, maybe in between Cosenza and Reggio (but closer to Cosenza, close to Salento too), quite a mistery, maybe like a founder effect of more Med traits or natural selection.

They are not dark at all on average plus clearly there are non italians in those videos. Just google for Turkish or Middle Eastern crowds and you'll see they are two worlds apart.

[Gondor]

They are not dark at all on average plus clearly there are non italians in those videos. Just google for Turkish or Middle Eastern crowds and you'll see they are two worlds apart.

read my post after that one :p

edit from my own post:

" Interesting enough even by cherry picking videos of dark Calabrians you can still spot the MENA in these crowds, and also they far better looking and more Euro looking than the extras in american Mafia movies . "

edit: I agree

[Samnium]

Darkness/lightness in these regions can be also provocked by isolation factor though Reggio Calabria is outlying in a "southern" direction.