R1a is the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Hungarian Árpád Dynasty

[Dunai]

The study is a couple years old, and maybe some already were familiar with it, but I created this thread for once again debunking the false misconception that R1a is Slavic haplogroup, and any other none-Slavic population that has it in significant percentages must have got it by assimilating Slavs. R1a is a haplogroup mostly spread among various steppe populations, including Slavs, but not exclusively.

"We investigated the remains of ten persons originating from the Székesfehérvár Royal Basilica and later placed into Matthias Church. Successful autosomal and Y-chromosomal STR typing was performed on the ancient samples. We also successfully performed sequence analysis on the control region of the mitochondrial DNA of three skeletons. There were three R1a and two R1b statistically predicted Y haplogroups among the male skeletons (Table 3). These are the most frequent and second most frequent haplogroups (25.6 and 18.1% respectively) in the present Hungarian population (Völgyi et al. 2009). King Béla III was inferred to belong to haplogroup R1a. The R1a Y haplogroup relates paternally to more than 10% of men in a wide geographic area from South Asia to Central Eastern Europe and South Siberia (Underhill et al. 2010). It is the most frequent haplogroup in various populations speaking Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Dravidian, Turkic and Finno-Ugric languages."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323107094_DNA_profiling_of_Hungarian_King_Bela_III _and_other_skeletal_remains_originating_from_the_R oyal_Basilica_of_Szekesfehervar

[Dick]

Magyar tribes brought R1a-Z645, I2a-L621, and N1a-L392(xB197) lineages to the Carpathian Basin

https://indo-european.eu/2019/04/magyar-tribes-brought-r1a-z280xz92-and-n1a-l392xb197-to-the-carpathian-basin/

[Ion Basescul]

https://indo-european.eu/2019/04/magyar-tribes-brought-r1a-z280xz92-and-n1a-l392xb197-to-the-carpathian-basin/

Worth mentioning that they were negative for I-S17250, which leaves either Y4460 or Z17855 as candidates. Both are quite popular in Romania apparently.

http://blog.vayda.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Din-haplogroups-dystribution-map-v6-1024x773.jpg

[Dunai]

https://indo-european.eu/2019/04/magyar-tribes-brought-r1a-z280xz92-and-n1a-l392xb197-to-the-carpathian-basin/

Good article. This fragment got my attention:

"Regarding the important question of the ethnic makeup of Ugric populations stemming from the Urals, the most interesting (and expected) data is the presence of R1a-Z645 lineages among high-ranking conquerors, in particular four R1a-Z280 subclades proper of Finno-Ugrians.

This proves that, in line with the old split and expansion of R1a-CTS1211 (formed ca. 2600 BC, TMRCA ca. 2400 BC), and its finding in Bronze Age Fennoscandian samples, only some late R1a-Z280 (xZ92) lineages (see Z280 on YFull) may show a clear identification with early acculturated Uralic speakers, with the main early acculturated Balto-Slavic R1a haplogroup remaining R1a-M458.

This finding also supports the expected shared R1a-Z280 lineages among ancient Finno-Ugric populations, as predicted from the study of modern Permic and Ugric peoples in Dudás et al. (2019)."

[Dick]

Worth mentioning that they were negative for I-S17250, which leaves either Y4460 or Z17855 as candidates. Both are quite popular in Romania apparently.

http://blog.vayda.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Din-haplogroups-dystribution-map-v6-1024x773.jpg

I noticed Seya's father is I-S17250 but that's basal.

Which exact branch are you?

[Ion Basescul]

I noticed Seya's father is I-S17250 but that's basal.

Which exact branch are you?

I'm positive for PH908, but negative for every currently known branch downstream. If you are asking upstream then that falls under S17250.

[Dick]

I'm positive for PH908, but negative for every currently known branch downstream. If you are asking upstream then that falls under S17250.

Yeah a little birdie just told me. I'm not familiar with it.

[Leto]

Z280 is sure Balto-Slavic, why deny that. Hungarians are a mix of Slavs, Germanics, Vlachs plus some Conqueror influence. Nothing wrong with that, a great country IMO.

[Dick]

Z280 is sure Balto-Slavic, why deny that. Hungarians are a mix of Slavs, Germanics, Vlachs plus some Conqueror influence. Nothing wrong with that, a great country IMO.

Hungary +Balkans has best looking people because it’s so mixed. Haters gonna hate

[Leto]

Hungary +Balkans has best looking people because it’s so mixed. Haters gonna hate
Well, not racially mixed. Also fewer blondes in those countries. Maybe you like it swarthy :D

[Dick]

Well, not racially mixed. Also fewer blondes in those countries. Maybe you like it swarthy :D
They are hiding in villages and Instagram. Self isolation is now the trend. Do you like this Bulgarian woman?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/82/f4/8682f40bd68601fe516d2c7d44face71.jpg

Serbian woman?

https://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/0109041.jpg?w=584

[Dunai]

Z280 is sure Balto-Slavic, why deny that. Hungarians are a mix of Slavs, Germanics, Vlachs plus some Conqueror influence. Nothing wrong with that, a great country IMO.

Do you really want to argue that the Hungarian Árpádian chieftains and kings were assimilated Slavs, that's why they had R1a? Are you for real? Are you aware that R1a predates the appearance of Slavs with several millennia at least, and was always one of the dominant steppe haplogroups, no matter the language their bearers spoken?

[Leto]

Do you really want to argue that the Hungarian Árpádian chieftains and kings were assimilated Slavs, that's why they had R1a? Are you for real? Are you aware that R1a predates the appearance of Slavs with several millennia at least, and was always one of the dominant steppe haplogroups, no matter the language their bearers spoken?
Nah, they prolly had the Asian R1a like in Turkics and Iranics.

[Jana]

Nah, they prolly had the Asian R1a like in Turkics and Iranics.

Yes, they are Z93 which is almost absent in ethnic Hungarians but over 30% in Hungarian Gypsies.

[Leto]

Yes, they are Z93 which is almost absent in ethnic Hungarians but over 30% in Hungarian Gypsies.
Cool. An Aryan diaspora in Hungary. That should make mixing with Roma more attractive to the public :cool:

[Leto]

There is no non-Slavic R1a in Europe except for the Scando branch and a couple of rare Germanic, Western clades.

[Ion Basescul]

There is no non-Slavic R1a in Europe except for the Scando branch and a couple of rare Germanic, Western clades.

There is no proof that Slavs spread R1a round Europe. The only almost certain haplogroup for that with current data is I-Y3120.

But if you believe otherwise, then show me those branches. They should have a TMRCA of about 2000ybp at its oldest for us to hypothesise any connection with Slavs.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Z-93 is not european, it may have been in the past but today it's central and south asian.

[Cumansky]

There is no proof that Slavs spread R1a round Europe. The only almost certain haplogroup for that with current data is I-Y3120.

There is no proof of this, but I have proof against it

[Leto]

There is no proof that Slavs spread R1a round Europe. The only almost certain haplogroup for that with current data is I-Y3120.
The highest concentration of Z282 in Europe is all in Slavic majority countries (plus Baltic). Obviously in the Balkans and Central Europe it's mostly Slavic. Who else could have spread it?

[Cumansky]

The highest concentration of Z282 in Europe is all in Slavic majority countries (plus Baltic). Obviously in the Balkans and Central Europe it's mostly Slavic. Who else could have spread it?

Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, etc

[Cumansky]

Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, etc

I2

[Kmakkmak]

it is Indo-European. Turkic, Finnic and Uralic people Have Indo-European Y Dna(R1a-Z93, R1b-M269, R1a-Z92, R1a-M417). Every nation is mixed others. We do not say that Arpad Dynasty is slavic. Arpad's Y dna is most probably R1a-Z93 branch of R1a-M417.

[Kmakkmak]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316283-Y-Dna-of-famous-Turkic-People

[Ion Basescul]

The highest concentration of Z282 in Europe is all in Slavic majority countries (plus Baltic). Obviously in the Balkans and Central Europe it's mostly Slavic. Who else could have spread it?

Cultures who have preceded the Slavs like the Corded Ware for example? When we are talking about Slavic, we mean the culture as we know it, not their forefathers who are loosely related.
To have been spread by Slavs, you should find branches that have spread around the time of the formation of Slavs as a culture. Slavs are officially recorded for the 1st time in the 6th AD, which is 1400ybp. Assuming that ancient historians were slow, we can spare them some slack and assume that Slavs formed about 2000ybp, but managed to hide.

Z282 has a TMRCA of 4800ybp, which is more than 3000 years older than the appearance of Slavs as a culture. Same goes for M458. What might have been spread by Slavs from under Z282 are younger branches like R-YP1337 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1337/), R-YP254 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP254/), R-YP417 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP417/) and R-L1029 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L1029/). The latter is probably among the most widespread teritorry-wise and arrived with Slavs.

[Blondie]

Z-93 is not european, it may have been in the past but today it's central and south asian.

It's originated from Europe:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YzEHDZmCZRI/Um1SawZ_ZxI/AAAAAAAACTk/73fOaBjcblk/s1600/Migration+map+of+haplogroup+R1a+from+the+Neolithic +to+the+late+Bronze+Age+(c.+1000+BCE).jpg

[Kmakkmak]

It's originated from Europe:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YzEHDZmCZRI/Um1SawZ_ZxI/AAAAAAAACTk/73fOaBjcblk/s1600/Migration+map+of+haplogroup+R1a+from+the+Neolithic +to+the+late+Bronze+Age+(c.+1000+BCE).jpg

From Eastern Europea(or West Asia) go to mongolia.

[Kmakkmak]

I2

I2 is slavicized and Germanized.

[Leto]

Cultures who have preceded the Slavs like the Corded Ware for example? When we are talking about Slavic, we mean the culture as we know it, not their forefathers who are loosely related.
To have been spread by Slavs, you should find branches that have spread around the time of the formation of Slavs as a culture. Slavs are officially recorded for the 1st time in the 6th AD, which is 1400ybp. Assuming that ancient historians were slow, we can spare them some slack and assume that Slavs formed about 2000ybp, but managed to hide.

Z282 has a TMRCA of 4800ybp, which is more than 3000 years older than the appearance of Slavs as a culture. Same goes for M458. What might have been spread by Slavs from under Z282 are younger branches like R-YP1337 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1337/), R-YP254 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP254/), R-YP417 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP417/) and R-L1029 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L1029/). The latter is probably among the most widespread teritorry-wise and arrived with Slavs.
Okay, perhaps some of it isn't directly Slavic. I'm not a Slavic supremacist or anything, I genuinely thought it was mostly Slavic. But yeah, of course it's all ultimately IE.

[Blondie]

Z280 is sure Balto-Slavic, why deny that. Hungarians are a mix of Slavs, Germanics, Vlachs plus some Conqueror influence. Nothing wrong with that, a great country IMO.

It's baltio-slavic marker but the conquerors were not mix of these ethnicities.

[Cumansky]

I2 is slavicized and Germanized.

I2 is your Pasha

[Ion Basescul]

Okay, perhaps some of it isn't directly Slavic. I'm not a Slavic supremacist or anything, I genuinely thought it was mostly Slavic. But yeah, of course it's all ultimately IE.

Yes, it definitely spread as Indo-European, but there are theories out there that only R1b is the OG Indo-European culture, whereas R1a started out as something Uralic. I won't comment on this, as I really didn't care enough to do my own research.

[Kmakkmak]

I2 is your Pasha

I do not understand you.

[Kmakkmak]

Yes, it definitely spread as Indo-European, but there are theories out there that only R1b is the OG Indo-European culture, whereas R1a started out as something Uralic. I won't comment on this, as I really didn't care enough to do my own research.

Uralic is N1 people not R1a.

[Cumansky]

I do not understand you.

You said I2 is German, prove it and I believe you

[Cumansky]

I do not understand you.

Then why you @ me if you do not understand

[Kmakkmak]

You said I2 is German, prove it and I believe you

not german but germanized.

[Cumansky]

not german but germanized.

So you have no answer

You mean some Germanics (Crusaders) are ancient Troyans, I think that what you are trying to mumble

[Ion Basescul]

You said I2 is German, prove it and I believe you

I2 is not German, because Germans didn't exist at that point, but Y3120, which is responsible for more than 90% of I2a variety in Eastern Europe, originated from a backward migration from NW Europe towards the East. Who knows who these people were as a culture, but they probably mixed and got acculturated by Slavs.
It is possible that they were some kind of Celts, because immediately upstream from Y3120 is CTS10228, which formed 3800ybp and is recorded in a French and South German ethnic. Upstream from that in CTS4002, there is FGC20479 from 4300ybp that occurs only in the British Isles. Y85772, which has a TMRCA of 3400ybp and is parallel to CTS4002 occurs only in one German. Closer to L621 upstream, there is Y45825, which is shared between a Brit and a German.

[Kmakkmak]

So you have no answer

You mean some Germanics (Crusaders) are ancient Troyans, I think that what you are trying to mumble

Germanic? Crusaders? Troyans?

[Cumansky]

Germanic? Crusaders? Troyans?

Yes you can type you can read

[Ion Basescul]

Here's the migration path for Y3120/S20602, which accounts for most of I2a in Eastern Europe

https://i.imgur.com/RrzjWea.png

[Cumansky]

Here's the migration path for Y3120/S20602, which accounts for most of I2a in Eastern Europe

https://i.imgur.com/RrzjWea.png

This is dig sites

[Ion Basescul]

This is dig sites

You have no idea what you are talking about, which was further demonstrated by your angry downvote that wasn't followed by any counter-arguments.

[Cumansky]

You have no idea what you are talking about, which was further demonstrated by your angry downvote that wasn't followed by any counter-arguments.

I2 dig sites will not indicate "migration path"

I am downvoting this fact that you are spinning, I only downvoted 12 times in 14 months with this website, that indicate your level of BS

[Ion Basescul]

I2 dig sites will not indicate "migration path"

I am downvoting this fact that you are spinning, I only downvoted 12 times in 14 months with this website, that indicate your level of BS

Offf, those are not dig sites, but actual modern people from FTDNA's publically available ytree. Then the guy at SNP Tracker simply takes their countries of ancestry and connects them with arrows.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree

But the message you downvoted didn't have any relation to SNP Tracker. That one was based on data from YFull and again all users are moderns. As I said, you don't understand this yet, which is ok. We all learn new things all the time.

[Cumansky]

Offf, those are not dig sites, but actual modern people from FTDNA's publically available ytree. Then the guy at SNP Tracker simply takes their countries of ancestry and connects them with arrows.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree

I know, I am Basarab Laiota nephew my condolence

[Ion Basescul]

I know, I am Basarab Laiota nephew my condolence

https://i.imgur.com/bFdCanr.jpg

[Zmey Gorynych]

It's originated from Europe:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YzEHDZmCZRI/Um1SawZ_ZxI/AAAAAAAACTk/73fOaBjcblk/s1600/Migration+map+of+haplogroup+R1a+from+the+Neolithic +to+the+late+Bronze+Age+(c.+1000+BCE).jpg
Yes, R1as who chose the "wrong" path and got "lost" in a sea of people who were different from them. Arpads like other R1a magyars would've had partial european ancestry.

[PaleoEuropean]

Hungary +Balkans has best looking people because it’s so mixed. Haters gonna hate

Some of the hottest women for sure.