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Dr_Maul
03-17-2020, 01:42 AM
Basically the title, I wonder what people here think about this. I usually thought they are European (and most Americans I know IRL think it too) but I guess a lot of people disagree so let's hear your reasoning :thumb001:

Samnium
03-17-2020, 01:54 AM
No.

PaleoEuropean
03-17-2020, 02:11 AM
They are a border people like Armenians and Turks.

Div
03-17-2020, 02:30 AM
Absolutely, they have shared a common experience thanks to their ties to Greece. Euripedes wrote Medea to be the wife of Jason and the princess of Colchis (western Georgia). After its conversion to Orthodoxy Georgia retained its status as a relatively friendly neighbor to Byzantium. I would say they are culturally European but not geographically.

Rgvgjhvv
03-17-2020, 02:32 AM
I think they have the right to self-identify as European, or self-identify as non-European. There's a lot of factors and so probably no correct answer.

Dick
03-17-2020, 02:33 AM
OP I assume you failed geography 101


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Georgia_in_United_States.svg/300px-Georgia_in_United_States.svg.png

Samnium
03-17-2020, 02:42 AM
I think they have the right to self-identify as European, or self-identify as non-European. There's a lot of factors and so probably no correct answer.

I think that being european is like a set of things : genetics, culture, history...

So Georgians are surely close to Europe in many aspects but at the end it's a West Asian country genetically.

I would see them as "friends of Europe" or "cousins of Europe" if you see what I mean.

Rgvgjhvv
03-17-2020, 02:45 AM
I think that being european is like a set of things : genetics, culture, history...

So Georgians are surely close to Europe in many aspects but at the end it's a West Asian country genetically.

I would see them as "friends of Europe" or "cousins of Europe" if you see what I mean.

Yes but again, genetics is one factor of many. I think it's not fair to be focused on just one. That's all I'm saying but I don't know any Georgians personally to have an idea of what they prefer. I think it's up to them.

Samnium
03-17-2020, 02:47 AM
Yes but again, genetics is one factor of many. I think it's not fair to be focused on just one. That's all I'm saying but I don't know any Georgians personally to have an idea of what they prefer. I think it's up to them.

Yes but to me you can't surely take away "genetics" from the equation.

Now Georgians if we see at a world scale genetically, are particuliarly close to Europeans, like many other West Asians. So even if they aren't Europeans they are still related.

Dr_Maul
03-17-2020, 02:48 AM
OP I assume you failed geography 101


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Georgia_in_United_States.svg/300px-Georgia_in_United_States.svg.png

Sorry, education quality has gone down since the sanctions.. and since Georgia is about 1/3 Black I guess that answers my question

Rgvgjhvv
03-17-2020, 02:57 AM
Yes but to me you can't surely take away "genetics" from the equation.

Now Georgians if we see at a world scale genetically, are particuliarly close to Europeans, like many other West Asians. So even if they aren't Europeans they are still related.

Yes but if you turn around and tell an everyday Pontic Greek or Greek Cypriot that they aren't genetically Greek and therefore "non-European", they will be deeply offended even if fully aware of their roots (which they are). I know it's different because both have been part of the Greek ethnos for thousands of years, but Georgia, as you know, does have many ties to Europe culturally, historically, religiously, etc. They would probably be by far the biggest outlier genetically, however. But I mean Greeks are an outlier genetically too if your European frame of reference is NW Euros. So, it's hard to say. At the end of the day, there is a line *somewhere*.

I have no idea where the line ends either. I have no clue what factors should be deemed more important than others. That's what I mean, I truly think that's an individual thing. They are "far enough" to claim non-European identity. But the question would also automatically extend to Armenians too then. @FinalFlash are you European? What do most of you guys think? My guess is nobody cares enough to think about it. Something so obvious to us on here can be a complete afterthought in reality.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 03:36 AM
No.

Gallop
03-17-2020, 03:51 AM
They seem so to me but I don't know anyone from that area, I don't know what they are like or what they think of Europe.

Morena
03-17-2020, 04:02 AM
I vote Other:
Not European but European culturally influenced enough so that they don't seem to be a problem in Europe or here in the US (as opposed to other west asians, such as their cousins the Chechens). A fascinating people and culture. I hope to visit one day.

Historyinterest
03-17-2020, 04:20 AM
As you previously said that after the 11th century things changed for Georgians (becoming less European), I made a list of empires/kingdoms/entities/dynasties that held sway over Georgia pre-11th century.


* Colchis
* Achaemenid Empire
* Kingdom of Iberia (antiquity)
* Pharnavazids
* Parthian Empire
* Arsacid dynasty of Iberia
* Lazica
* Artaxiad dynasty of Iberia
* Sasanian Empire
* Roman Empire
* Chosroids
* Byzantine Empire
* Rashidun Caliphate
* Bagratid Iberia
* Abbasid Caliphate
* Emirate of Tbilisi
* Kingdom of Abkhazia


Can you tell me which ones of this long list were "European"?

sean
03-17-2020, 11:00 AM
No.

Georgia is part of the Iran-Caucasus-Central Asia cultural zone.

https://i.imgur.com/wGmxU3S.jpg

Latin America is more European than Georgia, culturally speaking.

Jana
03-17-2020, 11:30 AM
No. They are not European, but like North Caucasians they are white. Culturally they are most European shifted Kavkaz country.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 11:31 AM
Of course they are, but Georgia is a transcontinental country like Russia and Turkey. But Georgians are considered European, just like Cypriots, and Cyprus falls fully in West Asia.

Jana
03-17-2020, 11:32 AM
btw, I voted option 3 by accident. Option 4 is what I wanted to vote for.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:33 AM
A Georgian who says he is European has lost all self-respect and is a clown in my eyes.
Same goes for other countries too (Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan etc.)

Hajimurad
03-17-2020, 11:37 AM
Georgians culturally, racially and genetically belongs to two groups:
- Oriental Christians (like Armenians, Syriacs)
- Caucasians
Neither of these group are European. Curiously Sovietization make Georgians closer to Europe. Before Russian annexion Georgia was under cultural influence of Iran from pagan times.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 11:38 AM
A Georgian who says he is European has lost all self-respect.
Same goes for other countries too (Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan etc.)

Georgia has territory in Europe and has traditionally been connected to the European part.
People have also been Christians traditionally.
That's pretty much all that's needed for them to be considered European.

Those who have selected otherwise need to explain themselves.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:40 AM
Georgia has territory in Europe and has traditionally been connected to the European part.
People have also been Christians traditionally.
That's pretty much all that's needed for them to be considered European.

Those who have selected otherwise need to explain themselves.

See Hajimurads post above

Hajimurad
03-17-2020, 11:41 AM
Georgia has territory in Europe and has traditionally been connected to the European part.
People have also been Christians traditionally.
That's pretty much all that's needed for them to be considered European.

Those who have selected otherwise need to explain themselves.

Do you understand Europe-Asian border is along Ural mountains, Volga and Don river through Black sea to Bosphorus and Aegean Sea? If Anatolia called Asia Minor why Georgia should called as part of Europe?

Voskos
03-17-2020, 11:43 AM
They're Caucasian people with a considerable amount of ancient european genetic admixture.

Jana
03-17-2020, 11:44 AM
They're Caucasian people with a considerable amount of ancient european genetic admixture.

They are actually among purest west Asians with high CHG and little to none European admixture.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:44 AM
They're Caucasian people with a considerable amount of ancient european genetic admixture.

Actually no. Their southern neighbours have more European admixture but you would never call them european because they don't have white skin.

Check here:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317649-European-Admixture-in-MENA-(NA-WA)-people

Root
03-17-2020, 11:46 AM
no, not even close

Lioncourt
03-17-2020, 11:48 AM
They don't consider themselves Europeans so this is what matters the most.

Nomansman
03-17-2020, 11:50 AM
Actually no. Their southern neighbours have more European admixture but you would never call them european because they don't have white skin.

Check here:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317649-European-Admixture-in-MENA-(NA-WA)-people

They might have more than gedmatch shows.

Balochs on gedmatch are shown to have almost no steppe, but the gedrosian component is always super high amongst them in gedmatch, to they point they seem different to everyone else. But on g25 nmonte, theyre more steppe shifted than shown on gedmatch.

Same case with georgians on gedmatch probably, since the west asian/caucasian component likely is the highest in them and gedmatch gives them an odd shift.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 11:51 AM
See Hajimurads post above

And I disagree that race and genetics have anything to do with that. CHG is one of the major components in the Steppe component, which every European has. EHG is at its biggest in half Mongoloid populations like the Komi and Mari, yet both are considered European.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 11:54 AM
They don't consider themselves Europeans so this is what matters the most.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vbfwkh2BAK8/T5-JJBEewSI/AAAAAAAAAGM/Zb4K17EGqqA/s1600/Picture2.png

http://crrc-caucasus.blogspot.com/2012/05/ethnic-versus-european-identity-case-of.html

Jana
03-17-2020, 11:57 AM
And I disagree that race and genetics have anything to do with that. CHG is one of the major components in the Steppe component, which every European has. EHG is at its biggest in half Mongoloid populations like the Komi and Mari, yet both are considered European.

Komi and Mari are borderline European in my opinion. (more European than not however)

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:00 PM
Komi and Mari are borderline European in my opinion. (more European than not however)

I actually confused them for Khanty and Mansi. Komi and Mari are like 20% East Asian/Siberian, while those are close to 50%.

Jana
03-17-2020, 12:01 PM
I actually confused them for Khanty and Mansi. Komi and Mari are like 20% East Asian/Siberian, while those are close to 50%.

Khanty and Mansi are Siberians.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:04 PM
Khanty and Mansi are Siberians.

But culturally also European, because Khanty and Mansi are the closest languages to Hungarian.

Hajimurad
03-17-2020, 12:05 PM
And I disagree that race and genetics have anything to do with that. CHG is one of the major components in the Steppe component, which every European has. EHG is at its biggest in half Mongoloid populations like the Komi and Mari, yet both are considered European.

Georgian culture became European-influenced only during Russian and Soviet domination. Traditional Georgian culture is more similar to Armenian and Caucasian cultures and strongly influenced by Iranian culture. Look at the Georgian alphabet (derived from Aramaic one) and Georgian Orthodox temples with conical roofs (similar to Armenian). Look at the Georgian traditional dress and their cuisine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/9/9c/Алфавиты.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Gelati_Monastery_1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Vepkhistkaosani_zichy.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Adjarian_Khachapuri_%284%29.jpg
Does that culture looks European to you?

Jana
03-17-2020, 12:06 PM
But culturally also European, because Khanty and Mansi are the closest languages to Hungarian.

Honestly, I don't think there is anything European about their culture if you exclude linguistic similarity to Hungarian (which has west Siberian origin in fact) and some recent Russian influence.
They lived hunter gatherer lifestyle for long time, more similar to northern Amerindians. I think they used to be Shamans as well.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:08 PM
Georgian culture became European-influenced only during Russian and Soviet domination. Traditional Georgian culture is more similar to Armenian and Caucasian cultures and strongly influenced by Iranian culture. Look at the Georgian alphabet (derived from Aramaic one) and Georgian Orthodox temples with conical roofs (similar to Armenian). Look at the Georgian traditional dress and their cuisine.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Грузинское_письмо#/media/Файл:Алфавиты.JPG
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Гелатский_монастырь#/media/Файл:Kutaisi_gelati.jpg
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тамара_(царица)#/media/Файл:Vepkhistkaosani_zichy.jpg
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Грузинская_кухня#/media/Файл:Adjarian_Khachapuri_(4).jpg
Does that culture looks European to you?

There isn't such a thing as a homogeneous European culture, so yeah, those can be considered as one regional subtype. At the end of the day, what matters is that the teritorry partially falls in Europe and that most Georgians consider themselves European. That's all that's needed.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:10 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Adjarian_Khachapuri_%284%29.jpg


Hachyapuri is so popular in Ukraine that it might as well be a national dish. Not to mention that belyashes are closely related and probably draw influence from hachyapuri.

Hajimurad
03-17-2020, 12:15 PM
There isn't such a thing as a homogeneous European culture, so yeah, those can be considered as one regional subtype. At the end of the day, what matters is that the teritorry partially falls in Europe and that most Georgians consider themselves European. That's all that's needed.

Territory of Georgia even partially don't falls in Europe. Majority of Georgians consider themselves as aborigines of Caucasus, not Europeans. By your logic Ashkenazi Jews and Balkan Turks (whose traditional culture isn't European) also can be European.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:18 PM
Territory of Georgia even partially don't falls in Europe. Majority of Georgians consider themselves as aborigines of Caucasus, not Europeans. By your logic Ashkenazi Jews and Balkan Turks (whose traditional culture isn't European) also can be European.

I'm just looking at what I can see from the studies that I found. I already linked that most Georgians feel European, not to mention also that 90% of them want in the EU.
I'd appreciate some evidence that isn't anecdotal as a counter-argument.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vbfwkh2BAK8/T5-JJBEewSI/AAAAAAAAAGM/Zb4K17EGqqA/s1600/Picture2.png

https://crrc-caucasus.blogspot.com/2012/05/ethnic-versus-european-identity-case-of.html

https://www.iri.org/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/georgia_infographic_final.png

Neither you nor I can speak in the name of Georgians, so we have to respect their choices from above.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 12:23 PM
They might have more than gedmatch shows.

Balochs on gedmatch are shown to have almost no steppe, but the gedrosian component is always super high amongst them in gedmatch, to they point they seem different to everyone else. But on g25 nmonte, theyre more steppe shifted than shown on gedmatch.

Same case with georgians on gedmatch probably, since the west asian/caucasian component likely is the highest in them and gedmatch gives them an odd shift.

"Steppe" is irrelevant, since it's not 100% European.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 12:24 PM
Territory of Georgia even partially don't falls in Europe. Majority of Georgians consider themselves as aborigines of Caucasus, not Europeans. By your logic Ashkenazi Jews and Balkan Turks (whose traditional culture isn't European) also can be European.

By their logic Gypsies should be prototype Europeans.

- more European admixture than Georgians
- live in Europe
- Christians
- ...

Ülev
03-17-2020, 12:29 PM
for some of geopolitical goal yes

PaleoEuropean
03-17-2020, 12:31 PM
Georgian culture became European-influenced only during Russian and Soviet domination. Traditional Georgian culture is more similar to Armenian and Caucasian cultures and strongly influenced by Iranian culture. Look at the Georgian alphabet (derived from Aramaic one) and Georgian Orthodox temples with conical roofs (similar to Armenian). Look at the Georgian traditional dress and their cuisine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/9/9c/Алфавиты.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Gelati_Monastery_1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Vepkhistkaosani_zichy.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Adjarian_Khachapuri_%284%29.jpg
Does that culture looks European to you?

looks very mixed Euro-Iranian to me

Hajimurad
03-17-2020, 12:46 PM
looks very mixed Euro-Iranian to me

Where you see Euro?

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:49 PM
By their logic Gypsies should be prototype Europeans.

- more European admixture than Georgians
- live in Europe
- Christians
- ...

Well, they are.

brennus dux gallorum
03-17-2020, 12:50 PM
genetically and linguistically no.

from any other aspect yes. I see no reason to classify Georgian civilization, society and mentality anywhere else, except for the case that caucasus can be considered a category of its own, separated from both Europe and West Asia. In that case they are not European

Georgian culture became European-influenced only during Russian and Soviet domination. Traditional Georgian culture is more similar to Armenian and Caucasian cultures and strongly influenced by Iranian culture. Look at the Georgian alphabet (derived from Aramaic one) and Georgian Orthodox temples with conical roofs (similar to Armenian). Look at the Georgian traditional dress and their cuisine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/9/9c/Алфавиты.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Gelati_Monastery_1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Vepkhistkaosani_zichy.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Adjarian_Khachapuri_%284%29.jpg
Does that culture looks European to you?

first and third pic no. The second absolutely, meanwhile the third semi-European

but still not all represent 2020

Jana
03-17-2020, 12:52 PM
Well, they are.

Gypsies are not European at all, although it's true they have very significant SE European admixture.

Jana
03-17-2020, 12:53 PM
Well, they are.

Gypsies are not European at all, although it's true they have very significant SE European admixture.

Voskos
03-17-2020, 12:54 PM
Actually no.


They are actually among purest west Asians with high CHG and little to none European admixture.

Sure guys, if you say so.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ranajit_Das2/publication/310368464/figure/fig1/AS:429001895354370@1479293430674/Admixture-proportions-of-all-populations-included-in-this-study-For-brevity.png

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 12:55 PM
Gypsies are not European at all, although it's true they have very significant SE European admixture.

They are and I'm not talking about it from a genetic point of view. They've been in Europe for almost 1000 years.

Ülev
03-17-2020, 12:59 PM
nvmd

Kyp
03-17-2020, 01:00 PM
They are and I'm not talking about it from a genetic point of view. They've been in Europe for almost 1000 years.

Well at least you are consistent in your opinion. But Georgia is not geographical Europe. I would consider it in one geographical sphere with Northeast Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan. It doesn't belong to North Caucasus which could be considered semi-european.

Jana
03-17-2020, 01:06 PM
They are and I'm not talking about it from a genetic point of view. They've been in Europe for almost 1000 years.

They don't even consider themselves European, and practically nobody considers them European either.

Adamm
03-17-2020, 01:08 PM
They are not European because they are not located in Europe.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 01:14 PM
They don't even consider themselves European, and practically nobody considers them European either.

Both don't really matter. They are born and die in Europe. Three thousand years down the line archeologists will classify them as European skeletons and cultures.

Renekton
03-17-2020, 01:29 PM
They are Caucasians

Reis-i Cumhur
03-17-2020, 01:48 PM
Georgians are non european white caucasoids.Georgians are lighter than greek and balkan people

Jana
03-17-2020, 01:51 PM
Both don't really matter. They are born and die in Europe. Three thousand years down the line archeologists will classify them as European skeletons and cultures.

Place of living alone isn't enough to make somebody European.

Babak
03-17-2020, 01:59 PM
Georgians are west asians. Whats all the fuss about?

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 02:00 PM
Place of living alone isn't enough to make somebody European.

I think that's the only thing that matters; place and length of time. Americans, South Africans, Latin Americans, Australians, etc. are definitely non-European in my book.

Jana
03-17-2020, 02:03 PM
I think that's the only thing that matters; place and length of time. Americans, South Africans, Latin Americans, Australians, etc. are definitely non-European in my book.

Agree with that. But they are Europeans by origin.

samario
03-17-2020, 02:22 PM
They are white and Christian but they are not European.

Westbrook
03-17-2020, 02:31 PM
I think most people just don't really know what Georgia is like
Georgia has territory in Europe and has traditionally been connected to the European part.
People have also been Christians traditionally.
That's pretty much all that's needed for them to be considered European.

Those who have selected otherwise need to explain themselves.

Tauromachos
03-17-2020, 02:33 PM
Georgians are more European than Europeans are

Rgvgjhvv
03-17-2020, 03:22 PM
A Georgian who says he is European has lost all self-respect and is a clown in my eyes.
Same goes for other countries too (Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan etc.)

Lol..why the tf do you care :lol: very strange

Kyp
03-17-2020, 03:48 PM
Lol..why the tf do you care :lol: very strange

The question should be what is there to gain in labelling a completely unrelated country as "European".

Oghuz
03-17-2020, 03:48 PM
IMO

Georgians can be called white people (if they want to adapt that identity) being christian and majorly European genetics (significant West Asian admixture as well) but they are by geography not European. They are like white people of west asia.

The word Georgia comes from Persian word Garg (wolf) ... implying Georgia = land of wolves.

Good people.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 03:51 PM
IMO

Georgians can be called white people (if they want to adapt that identity) being christian and majorly European genetics (significant West Asian admixture as well) .

*Exclusively West Asian genetics with very minor European input.

Oghuz
03-17-2020, 03:59 PM
*Exclusively West Asian genetics with very minor European input.

I was basing my opinion on basis of Gorjis being very close to Armenians in terms of admixtures. If Armenians can call themselves based on religion alone white then so can Gorjis.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TMKkCxSdsCI/AAAAAAAACwI/CPXiAI8SLZY/s1600/WEST_EURASIAN_ALL_10.png

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kristiina_Tambets/publication/264985653/figure/fig2/AS:296007708495873@1447585145141/ADMIXTURE-analysis-of-autosomal-SNPs-of-the-Western-Balkan-region-in-a-global-context-on.png

Rgvgjhvv
03-17-2020, 04:00 PM
The question should be what is there to gain in labelling a completely unrelated country as "European".

I'm not speaking for anyone, unlike you. I'm not offended either way. I don't think they're "clowns" either way either. I don't understand the animosity.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 04:08 PM
I'm not speaking for anyone, unlike you. I'm not offended either way. I don't think they're "clowns" either way either. I don't understand the animosity.

No i'm just basing my opinion on factors such as Geography, History, Culture & Genetics. If Georgians want to be considered as European it's of course up to them. But that doesn't mean I as an outsider have to consider them European too.

Historyinterest
03-17-2020, 04:12 PM
No i'm just basing my opinion on factors such as Geography, History, Culture & Genetics. If Georgians want to be considered as European it's of course up to them. But that doesn't mean I as an outsider have to consider them European too.

That's what every intellectual person shoud do. However when one reads this thread its all about "muh I want to believe something even though i have zero knowledge about the subject".

Jana
03-17-2020, 04:12 PM
I was basing my opinion on basis of Gorjis being very close to Armenians in terms of admixtures. If Armenians can call themselves based on religion alone white then so can Gorjis.

Armenians don't look white, at least based on photos of them I have seen.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 04:15 PM
Armenians don't look white, at least based on photos of them I have seen.

I also think most Armenians don't give themselves labels, such as "white" or "European".

Historyinterest
03-17-2020, 04:15 PM
The question should be what is there to gain in labelling a completely unrelated country as "European".

I noticed a lot of peripheral European nations (Rums, Romanians, Balkanites) are interested in proclaiming Georgia and Armenia as European. Probably to create a buffer against "Islamic Arab Turkey", which borders them, ruled them, and makes them feel threatened and insecure about their own marginal Europeaness

Kyp
03-17-2020, 04:18 PM
I noticed a lot of peripheral Euroepan nations (Rums, Romanians, Balkanites) are interested in proclaiming Georgia and Armenia as European. Probably to create a buffer against "Islamic Arab Turkey", as they feel threatened and insecure by their own marginal Europeaness

That's TA in a nutshell yes.

Same thing with Taxonomy threads.

Oghuz
03-17-2020, 04:23 PM
Armenians don't look white, at least based on photos of them I have seen.

As per my understand white is a loose ethno-religious identity roughly translating to a Caucasian Christian person. It has less to do with appearance or genetics. One can be a dark Italian yet still white while a light most Irano nordoid kurd is not.

Rgvgjhvv
03-17-2020, 04:33 PM
I also think most Armenians don't give themselves labels, such as "white" or "European".

Armenians in America do. I've seen it on Twitter lol

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:06 PM
As per my understand white is a loose ethno-religious identity roughly translating to a Caucasian Christian person. It has less to do with appearance or genetics. One can be a dark Italian yet still white while a light most Irano nordoid kurd is not.The only place where the word 'white' is used politically is the USA. On internet the use of the word 'white' is pretty useless. And according to the American official documents people of MENA ancestry are white.

But South Asians like Pakistani are not considered Caucasian or White

https://imgur.com/3AGlP6w

White or Caucasoid race is actually not from Europe, but from West Asia. Europeans are a product of different West Asian people. Ancient farmers were from West Asia. Also Yamnaya was partly West Asian.

European culture, civilisation, religion (Christianity) is also from West Asia. It is actually we people in Europe who have identity crisis.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:07 PM
As per my understand white is a loose ethno-religious identity roughly translating to a Caucasian Christian person. It has less to do with appearance or genetics. One can be a dark Italian yet still white while a light most Irano nordoid kurd is not.The only place where the racial term 'white' is used politically is the USA. On internet the use of the word 'white' is pretty useless. And according to the official American documents people of MENA ancestry are white.

But South Asians like Pakistani are not considered Caucasian or White.


American census 2020

https://i.postimg.cc/43gdfBqr/031420-bl-census-data-inline-race-ethnicity-680.png


White or Caucasoid race is actually not from Europe, but from West Asia. Europeans are a product of different West Asian people. Ancient farmers were from West Asia. Also Yamnaya was partly West Asian in nature.

European culture, civilisation, religion (Christianity) is also from West Asia. It is actually we people in Europe who have an identity crisis.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:12 PM
When we accept the American racial term of White as being the same as Caucasoid, then Georgians are actually the most Caucasoid people on planet Earth.

But Georgia is located in Transcaucasia and Transcaucasia is West Asia.

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:15 PM
White and Caucasoid aren't synonyms. Caucasoid is useless and outdated concept without genetic basis.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:18 PM
It is all about politics and power games. Because Georgia wants to break with its own communist past and break from Russia and join the European family. If Georgian joins the EU it will be a much wealthier country than as it is now. But it is very difficult because Russians don't let Georgia go that easy

Ford
03-17-2020, 05:18 PM
I don't think so, they're distinctly Kavkaz with some influences from all possible directions. But I do feel some kind of odd affinity towards Caucasus region, but maybe this is more personal thing.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:23 PM
White and Caucasoid aren't synonyms. Caucasoid is useless and outdated concept without genetic basis.How is it outdated? In the USA they still use this racial term today in 2020. According to the USA census of 2020 White=Caucasoid.

On genetic base Europeans are just an offshoot of a Greater Caucasoid race. The people of Europe constructed their own genetic cluster due to the interracial f*ckfest (genetic drift) that happened in Europe between Europeans for the last 2000 years.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:24 PM
I noticed a lot of peripheral European nations (Rums, Romanians, Balkanites) are interested in proclaiming Georgia and Armenia as European. Probably to create a buffer against "Islamic Arab Turkey", which borders them, ruled them, and makes them feel threatened and insecure about their own marginal Europeaness

It's probably more like we feel them, considering that they are pestered by Muslims in the South and Russians in the North. But what I said before has nothing to do with this. I quoted studies where actual Georgians claimed that they are Georgian and by extent European. You guys are just putting words in their mouth to pander to your fantasies.

You would probably be surprised that a lot of people, myself included, look quite positively at Ottoman culture and history. Not everyone associates Ottomans with extremists.

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:25 PM
How is it outdated? In the USA they still use this racial term today in 2020.

On genetic base Europeans are just an offshoot of a Greater Caucasoid race. The people of Europe constructed their own genetic cluster die to the interracial f*ckfest that happened in Europe between Europeans for the last 2000 years.

Americans are clueless when it comes to race.
Caucasoid means nothing, both Swede and Bedouin are ''Caucasoid'' and genetically they are oceans aparts just like in looks.

FinalFlash
03-17-2020, 05:27 PM
Armenians in America do. I've seen it on Twitter lol

Can confirm. Many, if not most do. Most are at least light enough to pass too.

JerryS.
03-17-2020, 05:29 PM
they are of the Caucasian race, but they are not European.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:35 PM
Americans are clueless when it comes to race.
Caucasoid means nothing, both Swede and Bedouin are ''Caucasoid'' and genetically they are oceans aparts just like in looks.
USA is the only place where different races do exist. Here in Europe in the political arena races don't even exist. According to the political European standards there is just 1 race, it is all human construction and we all belong to the same human race.

Most of the ancient ancestors (CHG, Anatolian Farmers) of the Bedouin and the Europeans are the same. And even before that the European Cro Magnons came from the MENA area.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:37 PM
Can confirm. Many, if not most do. Most are at least light enough to pass too.Well, in America every MENA is White=Caucasoid by constitution/law. Every person of MENA ancestry is clicking that box. And it is still the only place where they divide humans in different races

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:39 PM
Everyone should watch this from 1:40


https://youtu.be/ZZ065Enw34A?t=99

FinalFlash
03-17-2020, 05:41 PM
Well, in America every MENA is White=Caucasoid by constitution/law. Every person of MENA ancestry is clicking that box. And it is still the only place where they divide humans in different races

The perception of Armenians from the States varies as well from person to person. Some see us as white, others as near eastern. In Russia we are "kavkazets". Take your pick lol

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:41 PM
USA is the only place where different races do exist. Here in Europe in the political arena races don't even exist. According to the political European standards there is just 1 race, it is all human construction and we all belong to the same human race.

Most of the ancient ancestors (CHG, Anatolian Farmers) of the Bedouin and the Europeans are the same. And even before that the European Cro Magnons came from the MENA area.

Cro Magnons were genetically so extremely apart from modern mid easterners that even modern Europeans are closer to them than they were.
MENA lack major steppe and WHG input of Europeans and have other extra influences like SSA, Indian and very high Natufian.

They are not similar to Europeans.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:44 PM
Everyone should watch this from 1:40


https://youtu.be/ZZ065Enw34A?t=99

Also read the comments of actual Georgians ;)

"As a Georgian I would say Georgia is Caucasian, not european, not Asian. But if i have to choose culturally and historically we are more europeans than asians. P.S thanks for Video :)"

"Europe of course. Hello im georgian"

"No georgua is EUROPEAN COUNTRY we look like them and we are christians we are first EUROPEAN COUNTRY ZEZVA DA MZIA IN OUR COUNTRY THERE ARE 2000000 YEARS OLD HUMAN DISCOVERD!!!"

"I'm Georgian and If i had to choose Europe or Asia i would choose Europe becuease we share more traditions ❤"

"Georgia is European country we look like europeans and we are christian"


There's literally not a single comment where Georgians claim that they are Asian or Middle Eastern.
So, come again?

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:44 PM
Also nobody in Europe considers Arabs or Indians as similar people, it's enough to look at them. Ridiculous discussion.
Strongly Siberian admixed Finno-Ugrics in Russia are million times whiter and more European looking than vast majority of Asian ''Caucasoids''

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:48 PM
Also nobody in Europe considers Arabs or Indians as similar people, it's enough to look at them. Ridiculous discussion.
Strongly Siberian admixed Finno-Ugrics in Russia are million times whiter and more European looking than vast majority of Asian ''Caucasoids''

I guess it's also the strongly Siberian admixed Finno-Ugrics who invented the term Europe and put the foundation of Western culture, instead of the Asian "Caucasoid" looking Greeks.

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:50 PM
I guess it's also the strongly Siberian admixed Finno-Ugrics who invented the term Europe and put the foundation of Western culture, instead of the Asian "Caucasoid" looking Greeks.

Greeks are Europeans in majority, so why do you involve them?
Franks are forefathers of western European Christian culture.

Eline
03-17-2020, 05:50 PM
Cro Magnons were genetically so extremely apart from modern mid easterners that even modern Europeans are closer to them than they were.
MENA lack major steppe and WHG input of Europeans and have other extra influences like SSA, Indian and very high Natufian.

They are not similar to Europeans.That's because Western Europeans have still some Cro Magnon genes, while Bedouin have genes of Cro Magnon-brothers and sisters who stayed in the Middle East

True, nobody is the same and there is some viarion in admixture in all place. But at the core/basis all Caucasoids share the same ancestors.

Some have more African (Megroide) some have more East Asian (Mongoloid).


And ancient Steppe ancestry is for a great part 'mid easterners' (Levant/Anatolia + CHG) in nature. So most native people in Europe got their MENA ancestry either from the Leavant-Anatolian farmers of via Steppes immigrants. Some in Southeast Europe even after those migrations.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 05:51 PM
Georgians are non european white caucasoids.Georgians are lighter than greek and balkan people

And from Turks ofc.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:51 PM
Greeks are Europeans in majority, so why do you involve them?
Franks are forefathers of western European Christian culture.

Don't forget that a lot of them lived in Anatolia and we know how Anatolian Greeks score on autosomal tests; majority West Asian.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:52 PM
Franks are forefathers of western European Christian culture.

Hell no, maybe for Catholics. For Orthodox it's Greeks and Bulgarians.

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:53 PM
That's because Western Europeans have still some Cro Magnon genes, while Bedouin have genes of Cro Magnon-brothers and sisters who stayed in the Middle East

True, nobody is the same and there is some viarion in admixture in all place. But at the core/basis all Caucasoids share the same ancestors.

Some have more African (Megroide) some have more East Asian (Mongoloid).

And ancient Steppe ancestry is for a great part 'mid easterners' (Levant/Anatolia + CHG) in nature. So most native people in Europe got their MENA ancestry either from the Leavant-Anatolian farmers of via Steppes immigrants. Some in Southeast Europe even after those migrations.

CHG isn't really mid eastern component, it doesn't peak there although MENAs have lot of CHG ancestry from Caucasus migrations just like Europeans.
Anatolian farmers were not genetically mid eastern (in modern sense) either.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 05:53 PM
I guess it's also the strongly Siberian admixed Finno-Ugrics who invented the term Europe and put the foundation of Western culture, instead of the Asian "Caucasoid" looking Greeks.

It is more possible to find asian(mongoloid) genes to Romania/Moldova rather to Greece.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 05:55 PM
It is more possible to find asian(mongoloid) genes to Romania/Moldova rather to Greece.

Greeks definitely don't have Mongoloid genes. I meant Asian as in West Asian.

FinalFlash
03-17-2020, 05:56 PM
Cro Magnons were genetically so extremely apart from modern mid easterners that even modern Europeans are closer to them than they were.
MENA lack major steppe and WHG input of Europeans and have other extra influences like SSA, Indian and very high Natufian.

They are not similar to Europeans.

I can't say much about north africans(BS MENA term) but some West Asians score Steppe admixture ranging anywhere from 10-20% if not slightly higher than that. Plus shared EEF and CHG ancestry must be considered as well. Both groups are different, sure, but to deny any overlap is dishonest.

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:56 PM
Don't forget that a lot of them lived in Anatolia and we know how Anatolian Greeks score on autosomal tests; majority West Asian.

Pontic Greeks are not European genetically. West coast Anatolian Greeks seem closer to other Greeks if I am not mistaken.
Greeks are people who lived on two continents, nothing wrong with it.

Greco-Roman civilisation was rather pan-mediterranean than truly European. For them Egypt and Judea were far more familiar and more important than Sarmatia or Germania.
Europe in modern sense started when Germanic barbarians took Latin rite Christianity and organised functional state.

And even the EU is based on that Frankish (France-Germany) axis.

Jana
03-17-2020, 05:58 PM
Hell no, maybe for Catholics. For Orthodox it's Greeks and Bulgarians.

Ofcourse, nobody denies that.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:01 PM
Greeks definitely don't have Mongoloid genes. I meant Asian as in West Asian.

It depends what you consider asian.To me Yamnaya/EHG is an asian component like CHG/Iran N are.

Eline
03-17-2020, 06:01 PM
Also nobody in Europe considers Arabs or Indians as similar people, it's enough to look at them. Ridiculous discussion.
Strongly Siberian admixed Finno-Ugrics in Russia are million times whiter and more European looking than vast majority of Asian ''Caucasoids''Arabs are Semitic and in the USA Indians/Pakistani are not considered Caucasoid people at all.

You showed your interests in genes. Finno-Ugric genes are not White=Caucasoid. Finno-Ugric genes are Mongoloid.

Some Caucasoid people have more Mongoloid genes in them and some Caucasoid people have more Negroide genes in them. That's why there is a variation within a Caucasoid race.


But according to the European standards/definition there are no races because every human has every race in her/him. So according to the Europeans native people in Sweden have still very little Negroide genes in them, while Bedouin still have very little Mongoloid genes in them. Geneflow is very fluid. It can be very limited, but you can never stop the geneflow.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:02 PM
Arabs are Semitic and in the USA Indians/Pakistani are not considered Caucasoid people at all.

You showed your interests in genes. Finno-Ugric genes are not White=Caucasoid. Finno-Ugric genes are Mongoloid.

Some Caucasoid people have more Mongoloid genes in them and some Caucasoid people have more Negroide genes in them. That's why there is a variation within a Caucasoid race.

But according to the European standards/definition there are no races because every human has every race in her/him. So according to the Europeans native people in Sweden have still very little Negroide genes in them, while Bedouin still have very little Mongoloid genes in them. Geneflow is very fluid. It can be very limited, but you can never stop the geneflow.

Whatever they are, Finno-Ugrics are in majority white and not only white, but northern European kind of white.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:03 PM
I can't say much about north africans(BS MENA term) but some West Asians score Steppe admixture ranging anywhere from 10-20% if not slightly higher than that. Plus shared EEF and CHG ancestry must be considered as well. Both groups are different, sure, but to deny any overlap is dishonest.

I don't think anyone claims there is 0% overlap.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:03 PM
Whatever they are, Finno-Ugrics are in majority white and not only white, but northern European kind of white.

There is 5% east asian to some of them.I would not consider 100% caucausoid people like samis,some finns and some northern russians.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 06:04 PM
Pontic Greeks are not European genetically. West coast Anatolian Greeks seem closer to other Greeks if I am not mistaken.
Greeks are people who lived on two continents, nothing wrong with it.

Greco-Roman civilisation was rather pan-mediterranean than truly European. For them Egypt and Judea were far more familiar and more important than Sarmatia or Germania.
Europe in modern sense started when Germanic barbarians took Latin rite Christianity.

And even the EU is based on that Frankish (France-Germany) axis.

In modern sense, sure, it started in Carolingian times when Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman Emperor. But Europe as a concept was defined by Greeks a long time before that and the Western culture based on democracy and choice were also their products.
There weren't any Western values in Carolingian times and later the Holy Roman Empire. They resurfaced quite recently actually, unironically in the USA, and then they were adopted by the old continent.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:04 PM
It depends what you consider asian.To me Yamnaya/EHG is an asian component like CHG/Iran N are.

WHG is most distinctly European genetic component.

Eline
03-17-2020, 06:05 PM
I can't say much about north africans(BS MENA term) but some West Asians score Steppe admixture ranging anywhere from 10-20% if not slightly higher than that. Plus shared EEF and CHG ancestry must be considered as well. Both groups are different, sure, but to deny any overlap is dishonest.We here in Europe developed our own cluster due to isolation from the Middle East after introduction of Christianity and because of the interracial f*ckfest that happened between the Europeans within Europe for the last 2000 years.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:06 PM
There is 5% east asian to some of them.I would not consider 100% caucausoid people like samis,some finns and some northern russians.

Would you consider my man non-white? He scores few percent mongoloid.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:08 PM
In modern sense, sure, it started in Carolingian times when Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman Emperor. But Europe as a concept was defined by Greeks a long time before that and the Western culture based on democracy and choice were also their products.
There weren't any Western values in Carolingian times and later the Holy Roman Empire. They resurfaced quite recently actually, unironically in the USA, and then they were adopted by the old continent.

I'm just saying, Greeks coined the term but Europe for them didn't mean the same it means to us. They didn't consider northern European barbarians similar to them, but they did consider kin Greek-speaking Anatolians.
Romans took from Greeks sure, but Greeks also didn't invent everything on their own. After all civilisation started in Mesopotamia.

North Africa, Levant and southern Europe were much closer to each other in ancient times in every sense than southern Europe was to rest of Europe, for example.

Eline
03-17-2020, 06:10 PM
Whatever they are, Finno-Ugrics are in majority white and not only white, but northern European kind of white.I will tell you more, Finno-Ugric people might be more native to Europe, like the Basque people, than Indo-European immigrants from Yamnaya.

Accroding to the outdated racial theories (Charles Coon) Finno-Ugric speaking people are not Caucasoid, but Mongoloid. But according to the USA census of 2020 all people with the European ancestry can be considered Caucasoid=White.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:10 PM
WHG is most distinctly European genetic component.

WHG yes but EHG-ANE is definitely not native in EU and contains some mongoloid-siberian like (1/3).You know the connection of Native Americans and Europeans but in general i don't consider anatolian N as european either.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:11 PM
Would you consider my man non-white? He scores few percent mongoloid.


How much?Have you run his coordinates on G25 with ancient references?

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:13 PM
How much?Have you run his coordinates on G25 with ancient references?

Around 2-3% and 1-2% south Asian. He is Hungarian after all.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:14 PM
I will tell you more, Finno-Ugric people might be more native to Europe, like the Basque people, than Indo-European immigrants from Yamnaya.

Accroding to the outdated racial theories (Charles Coon) Finno-Ugric speaking people are not Caucasoid, but Mongoloid. But according to the USA census of 2020 all people with the European ancestry can be considered Caucasoid=White.

Would you agree Coon is outdated? Don't Estonians for instance look like some of whitest people in the world to most of other Europeans?

Eline
03-17-2020, 06:15 PM
WHG yes but EHG-ANE is definitely not native in EU and contains some mongoloid-siberian like (1/3).You know the connection of Native Americans and Europeans but in general i don't consider anatolian N as european either.Ancient Yamnaya people were at least European WHG + East Asian Siberian ANE (WHG + ANE = EHG) + Asian Levant-Anatolian + Asian CHG + Asian Iran_N + maybe some other undicovered ancestries.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:18 PM
Around 2-3% and 1-2% south Asian. He is Hungarian after all.

How the heck he scores south asian?It is from a related hun/turkoman group or proto-hungarians?

Eline
03-17-2020, 06:21 PM
Would you agree Coon is outdated? Don't Estonians for instance look like some of whitest people in the world to most of other Europeans?Coon is outdated. I think American 2020 census is also outdated. I think more like our modern scientists here in Europe. I don't think in races, but rather in cultures and ethnicities.

Here in Belgium there are not that much people from Estonian. And most of them I met here are actually ethnic Russians. Estonians have a different origin, just look at their Y-DNA (N1c1), but they live with the Balto-Slavic people for a very long time and therefore they are already heavily mixed with the Balto-Slavic people.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:22 PM
How the heck he scores south asian?It is from a related hun/turkoman group or proto-hungarians?

I am not sure. Not excluding Gypsies as possibility, although he doesn't match them on gedmatch. Might be from his North Caucasus like ancestry, which he has suprisingly plenty.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:24 PM
Coon is outdated. I think American 2020 census is also outdated. I think more like our modern scientists here in Europe. I don't think in races, but rather in cultures and ethnicities.

Here in Belgium there are not that much people from Estonian. And most of them I met here are actually ethnic Russians. Estonians have a different origin, just look at their Y-DNA (N1c1), but they live with the Balto-Slavic people for a very long time and therefore they are already heavily mixed with the Balto-Slavic people.

They are genetically almost zero mongoloid, despite N1c haplogroup. Estonians are closer to Latvians and NW Russians than to Finns genetically.

Eline
03-17-2020, 06:31 PM
They are genetically almost zero mongoloid, despite N1c haplogroup. Estonians are closer to Latvians and NW Russians than to Finns genetically.Oui, they are like Latvians and NW Russians. But these people have a lot EHG. And EHG is partly Siberian. EHG is not fully Caucasoid=White. Their Mongoloid genes went to their EHG component.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:35 PM
Oui, they are like Latvians and NW Russians. But these people have a lot EHG. And EHG is partly Siberian. EHG is not fully Caucasoid=White. Their Mongoloid genes went to their EHG component.

There is not such a thing like 'White' lol.Stop using anglo-american terms when it comes to genetics.EHG is indeed siberian admixed but ancient siberians were not either like east asians.They admixed with them later..

Token
03-17-2020, 06:36 PM
Not European in any sense of the word.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:39 PM
I am not sure. Not excluding Gypsies as possibility, although he doesn't match them on gedmatch. Might be from his North Caucasus like ancestry, which he has suprisingly plenty.

Magyars genetically would might be like other central asian tribes like turkomans-huns etc with half sintasta-corded like and half like modern turks,azeris and other turkish central asian folks witch contains East Asian,South Asian,Iran N,some Anatolian N and maybe Levant genes.In general nomadic tribes from central-centraleast asia were very mixed..with very mixed Ydna/Mtdna as well.

Jana
03-17-2020, 06:41 PM
Magyars genetically would might be like other central asian tribes like turkomans-huns etc with half sintasta-corded like and half like modern turks,azeris and other turkish central asian folks witch contains East Asian,South Asian,Iran N,some Anatolian N and maybe Levant genes.In general nomadic tribes from central-centraleast asia were very mixed..with very mixed Ydna/Mtdna as well.

Magyars were similar to one probable Volga Bulgar sample which was posted recently, closest to Bashkirs and Tatars. Around 70% west Eurasian 30% mongoloid if not mistaken.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 06:43 PM
Magyars were similar to one probable Volga Bulgar sample which was posted recently, closest to Bashkirs and Tatars. Around 70% west Eurasian 30% mongoloid if not mistaken.

Yep probably.Its sad their genetic legacy was limited among modern Hungarians.Do you think modern Hungarians are more slavic or germanic-celtic?

Rumata
03-17-2020, 06:59 PM
This thread can help with the identification of the Georgians:
Are Georgians culturally closer to Armenians or to North Caucasians? (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310268-Are-Georgians-culturally-closer-to-Armenians-or-to-North-Caucasians)

user_
03-17-2020, 07:38 PM
Georgians culturally, racially and genetically belongs to two groups:
- Oriental Christians (like Armenians, Syriacs)
- Caucasians
Neither of these group are European. Curiously Sovietization make Georgians closer to Europe. Before Russian annexion Georgia was under cultural influence of Iran from pagan times.

1. Georgians are not oriental Christians, Georgians are orthodox Christians, like most of Slavs and other East Europeans.
2. Sovetisation and Russia maybe bring Europe to Central Asia and but not to Georgia.

I'll show some pictures of Georgian art and architecture of X-XII centuries, there were 0 Russian influences at that time, it was Georgia influencing other neighbors.

https://i.ibb.co/9gqLLKv/97f7c2fa-067e-40fc-a275-b5dacbd3e0d3-bagrati-church-kutaisi.jpg (https://ibb.co/wgKXXGL)

https://i.ibb.co/Cnxxhcv/129c3bfb1ec847e1c045d9204b028b3f.jpg (https://ibb.co/brppz0L)

https://i.ibb.co/z7nkJNy/800px-Damiane1.jpg (https://ibb.co/3MrJzkD)

https://i.ibb.co/dtFrBHx/1984-Ubissa-Annunciation-Damiane-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/7QPXv0L)

https://i.ibb.co/YLSB8SF/1984-Ubissa-Last-Supper.jpg (https://ibb.co/sV49Q4d)

https://i.ibb.co/PtN9XzL/1984-Ubissa-Nativity-1.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/HXJRSgR/49303281462-ba279fc172.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/GtnnhgF/maxresdefault.jpg (https://ibb.co/CMmmrxW)

https://i.ibb.co/wh19kFB/mtskheta-sveticxoveli.jpg (https://ibb.co/7tFwfdj)



If that is not European, tell me what is Europe?

brennus dux gallorum
03-17-2020, 07:42 PM
1. Georgians are not oriental Christians, Georgians are orthodox Christians, like most of Slavs and other East Europeans.
2. Sovetisation and Russia maybe bring Europe to Central Asia and but not to Georgia.

I'll show some pictures of Georgian art and architecture of X-XII centuries, there were 0 Russian influences at that time, if anything Georgia was influencing other neighbors.

https://i.ibb.co/9gqLLKv/97f7c2fa-067e-40fc-a275-b5dacbd3e0d3-bagrati-church-kutaisi.jpg (https://ibb.co/wgKXXGL)

https://i.ibb.co/Cnxxhcv/129c3bfb1ec847e1c045d9204b028b3f.jpg (https://ibb.co/brppz0L)

https://i.ibb.co/z7nkJNy/800px-Damiane1.jpg (https://ibb.co/3MrJzkD)

https://i.ibb.co/dtFrBHx/1984-Ubissa-Annunciation-Damiane-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/7QPXv0L)

https://i.ibb.co/YLSB8SF/1984-Ubissa-Last-Supper.jpg (https://ibb.co/sV49Q4d)

https://i.ibb.co/PtN9XzL/1984-Ubissa-Nativity-1.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/HXJRSgR/49303281462-ba279fc172.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/GtnnhgF/maxresdefault.jpg (https://ibb.co/CMmmrxW)

https://i.ibb.co/wh19kFB/mtskheta-sveticxoveli.jpg (https://ibb.co/7tFwfdj)



If that is not European, tell me what is Europe?

especially the city in your post looks quite European to me

user_
03-17-2020, 07:57 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Adjarian_Khachapuri_%284%29.jpg
Does that culture looks European to you?

Why delicious bread stuffed with cheese, butter and egg is not European? LOL :D

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 07:59 PM
1. Georgians are not oriental Christians, Georgians are orthodox Christians, like most of Slavs and other East Europeans.
2. Sovetisation and Russia maybe bring Europe to Central Asia and but not to Georgia.

I'll show some pictures of Georgian art and architecture of X-XII centuries, there were 0 Russian influences at that time, if anything Georgia was influencing other neighbors.


If that is not European, tell me what is Europe?

There's no point in arguing with them. You are literally the only Georgian in this thread and you obviously feel European. I showed them studies that most Georgians feel European rather than Asian, but Muslim Caucasians and others refused to believe this. I wonder what their agenda is.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317708-Are-Georgians-European&p=6563373&viewfull=1#post6563373

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317708-Are-Georgians-European&p=6563909#post6563909

user_
03-17-2020, 08:44 PM
There's no point in arguing with them. You are literally the only Georgian in this thread and you obviously feel European. I showed them studies that most Georgians feel European rather than Asian, but Muslim Caucasians and others refused to believe this. I wonder what their agenda is.


I guess they find Georgia attractive and they want us to be part of West Asian world :D I appreciate that, but whole history of Georgia is surviving from Asian invasions, not to be assimilated by them. That is a fact.

Kivan
03-17-2020, 08:53 PM
I see them as some kind of bridge between Asia and Europe, although closer culturally to Europe than to most of Asia.

But anyway, who cares? Being European is not synonym of being better than anyone.
Japan and South Korea are Asian and still much superior than almost all European countries.

"Being more European" in this forum is just status to measuring dick size, apparently.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 08:59 PM
Georgians have nothing to do with Europe.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 09:05 PM
Yes, idk why owd middle easteners post here, like their words mean anything.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 09:10 PM
Yes, idk why owd middle easteners post here, like their words mean anything.

owd Middle eastern equals Georgian

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 09:11 PM
owd Middle eastern equals Georgian

Actual Georgian man told you that it doesn't.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 09:15 PM
I guess they find Georgia attractive and they want us to be part of West Asian world :D I appreciate that, but whole history of Georgia is surviving from Asian invasions, not to be assimilated by them. That is a fact.

Not true. Look up Georgian-Persian relations. Persian shahs liked to replace the royal guards (Turkmen Qizilbash) with Georgian and Persian soldiers because they were more loyal to the Persian crown and easier to control. Of course your history is about surviving Asian invasions, since Georgia lies in Transcaucasia.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 09:42 PM
Yes, idk why owd middle easteners post here, like their words mean anything.

At least we don’t share fake results and claim we are European here, as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. :)

Jana
03-17-2020, 09:48 PM
At least we don’t share fake results and claim we are European here, as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. :)

He himself said he is 7/8 Greek Cypriot and 1/8 Georgian, I remember that perfectly. Later people claimed he is half Swede half Thessalian Greek, who is lying here I wonder?

user_
03-17-2020, 09:51 PM
Not true. Look up Georgian-Persian relations. Persian shahs liked to replace the royal guards (Turkmen Qizilbash) with Georgian and Persian soldiers because they were more loyal to the Persian crown and easier to control. Of course your history is about surviving Asian invasions, since Georgia lies in Transcaucasia.
Georgian and Circassian soldiers were popular not only in Iran, but all over middle east. I guess the reason was they had more "white and upper class look". Many shahs wanted to marry georgian or circassian girls to have european looking heirs.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 09:53 PM
He himself said he is 7/8 Greek Cypriot and 1/8 Georgian, I remember that perfectly. Later people claimed he is half Swede half Thessalian Greek, who is lying here I wonder?

It’s because he showed some results which is identical with a half Thessalian half Swede

Jana
03-17-2020, 09:53 PM
Georgian and Circassian soldiers were popular not only in Iran, but all over middle east. I guess the reason was they had more "white and upper class look". Many shahs wanted to marry georgian or circassian girls to have european looking heirs.

And yet both of these are not European genetically. So they don't look European, they look native to their lands. White skinned people are native to Caucasus.

Jana
03-17-2020, 09:54 PM
It’s because he showed some results which is identical with a half Thessalian half Swede

Strange.

Lioncourt
03-17-2020, 09:54 PM
Georgians have nothing to do with Europe.

This is an exaggaration. They are Orthodox Christians who have been under strong Russian influence for the last century, at least with Eastern Europe they have some connection.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 09:55 PM
At least we don’t share fake results and claim we are European here, as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. :)

Im not kivan dear

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 09:57 PM
Strange.

I find it strange too since i never posted my 23andme here, its just the turkish owd discord gossip

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 09:59 PM
Im not kivan dear

Of course you are not due to lack of capacity, dear

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:02 PM
Of course you are not due to lack of capacity, dear

Speak proper english else you just make yourself look even dumber.

Google words you don't know the meaning of.

Historyinterest
03-17-2020, 10:06 PM
^ u sound mad bro

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 10:06 PM
I find it strange too since i never posted my 23andme here, its just the turkish owd discord gossip

You shared it personally with some members, stop lying.
https://i.hizliresim.com/1GyiHF.jpg

You better don’t call anyone OWD since you are the biggest one

user_
03-17-2020, 10:06 PM
If both Sardinians and Finns can be European, why Georgians can't? )))

Genetically, culturally, phenotype or geographic, Finns and Sardinians are closer to Georgians than they are to each other.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:09 PM
You shared it personally with some members, stop lying.
https://i.hizliresim.com/1GyiHF.jpg

You better don’t call anyone OWD since you are the biggest one

Yes, my raw data does not funcion well with gedmatch for some reason i cant remember, peterski tried to explain but i dont care about gedmatch.

I have never denied having a half swedish father.

tell the rat marmara to grow some balls you filthy muslims seem to lack.

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 10:10 PM
If both Sardinians and Finns can be European, why Georgians can't? )))

Because other people decided that for you. You don't have a right to self determination. Just sit back and enjoy their expert advices :lol:

Alenka
03-17-2020, 10:12 PM
No. Caucasus is a distinct region in it's own right. But if I had to group Georgians with either Europeans or Middle Easterners, I would lean towards grouping them with Middle Easterners.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 10:12 PM
If both Sardinians and Finns can be European, why Georgians can't? )))

Genetically, culturally, phenotype wise, Finns and Sardinians are closer to Georgians than they are to each other.

Because both countries lie in Europe and both countries are European genetically forming two ends of the European spectrum, while Georgians fall out of it, since they are genetically mostly of the WestAsian/Caucasus component which in no European country forms the majority of it's DNA.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:14 PM
itilvolga and the other turks gossiping without balls who have to use a woman to do their bidding, im sorry but nobody will recognize you as european, you are middle easteners.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 10:18 PM
Yes, my raw data does not funcion well with gedmatch for some reason i cant remember, peterski tried to explain but i dont care about gedmatch.

I have never denied having a half swedish father.

tell the rat marmara to grow some balls you filthy muslims seem to lack.

So where is Swedish here?

Greek islander, cypriot, georgian


Bla bla bla ok liar

user_
03-17-2020, 10:19 PM
Because both countries lie in Europe and both countries are European genetically forming two ends of the European spectrum, while Georgians fall out of it, since they are genetically mostly of the WestAsian/Caucasus component which in no European country forms the majority of it's DNA.

Genetically Georgians are closer to Finns than Sardinians are, also Georgians are closer to Sardinians than Finns are to Sardinians. Yet Sardinians and Finns can group together, while Georgians can't be in that spectrum. Where is logic?

Ion Basescul
03-17-2020, 10:21 PM
Genetically Georgians are closer to Finns than Sardinians are, also Georgians are closer to Sardinians than Finns are to Sardinians. Yet Sardinians and Finns can group together, while Georgians can't be in that spectrum. Where is logic?

Here it is:

https://previews.123rf.com/images/vvoennyy/vvoennyy1311/vvoennyy131100158/23728607-ajarian-khachapuri-georgian-cheese-pastry-filled-with-cheese-and-topped-with-a-soft-boiled-egg-and-b.jpg

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:21 PM
So where is Swedish here?



Bla bla bla ok liar

Thats what my Gedmatch show so thats not a lie, how come you roaches never take a test instead of trying to pass turks as nw Europeans 24/7

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:23 PM
Here it is:

https://previews.123rf.com/images/vvoennyy/vvoennyy1311/vvoennyy131100158/23728607-ajarian-khachapuri-georgian-cheese-pastry-filled-with-cheese-and-topped-with-a-soft-boiled-egg-and-b.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/media.zeinaskitchen.se/2015/07/812.jpg

user_
03-17-2020, 10:23 PM
Here it is:

https://previews.123rf.com/images/vvoennyy/vvoennyy1311/vvoennyy131100158/23728607-ajarian-khachapuri-georgian-cheese-pastry-filled-with-cheese-and-topped-with-a-soft-boiled-egg-and-b.jpg

If you remove eggs basically it is fondue )))

Kyp
03-17-2020, 10:24 PM
Genetically Georgians are closer to Finns than Sardinians are, also Georgians are closer to Sardinians than Finns are to Sardinians. Yet Sardinians and Finns can group together, while Georgians can't be in that spectrum. Where is logic?

The logic is: There are no non-european people close to Sardinians or Finns, while all people close to Georgians are from West Asia.

Also Georgians are nowhere near Finns so where is the point? Even Iranians are closer to Finns probably.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 10:24 PM
Thats what my Gedmatch show so thats not a lie, how come you roaches never take a test instead of trying to pass turks as nw Europeans 24/7

There is no any single Turk on the forum who claims Turks are European but you do for yourself as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. Pathetic.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:27 PM
There is no any single Turk on the forum who claims Turks are European but you do for yourself as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. Pathetic.

Sure, kivans posts are all European leaning people aswell as him classifying every "turk" as typical turk as atlantid

you call me mutt, know your own history and kivans 2 mutts with no knowledge

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 10:30 PM
Sure, kivans posts are all European leaning people aswell as him classifying every "turk" as typical turk as atlantid

you call me mutt, know your own history and kivans 2 mutts with no knowledge

But there is a difference between us and you: we don’t lie about our backgrounds.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:32 PM
But there is a difference between us and you: we don’t lie about our backgrounds.

Ehm yes you do, while i dont.

you are so delusional to think kivan a brazilian mutt with turkish roots is pure turk yet they dont speak a word of turkish, i knew you were dumb but this is painful.

Lioncourt
03-17-2020, 10:34 PM
Too many users consider Georgians Middle Eastern, what they have in common with Palestinians or Iraqis?

They are unique on their own, but culturally closer to Bulgarians or Romanians than to Arabs.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 10:37 PM
Ehm yes you do, while i dont.

you are so delusional to think kivan a brazilian mutt with turkish roots is pure turk yet they dont speak a word of turkish, i knew you were dumb but this is painful.

You know what, you are a loser. It’s much more painful to see you feeling trapped and attacking others to save your own ass hahaha if Drusilla is real, just go and marry her as soon as possible so your poor kids can claim they’re half European

user_
03-17-2020, 10:41 PM
Europe is a diverse region, where genetically absolutely different people Sardinians and Finns can be called Europeans. Non Indo European Basks are also European. Cyprus located in Asia is Europe.

I see no reason why Georgia can't be a part of Europe. If Georgians want to be a part of European family, and that's how majority of Georgians think, they why not?

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:44 PM
You know what, you are a loser. It’s much more painful to see you feeling trapped and attacking others to save your own ass hahaha if Drusilla is real, just go and marry her as soon as possible so your poor kids can claim they’re half European

Nothing else to say?
Yes shes more real than any of you turks and your ethnic claims.
its funny how you think shes fake, just as your "ex" ruyjin who came to discord just to lie and start fights, seem like a typical middle eastern thing.

i dont understand why she would be fake, people who hate me here can vouch shes real since she have talked to them while they have blocked me.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 10:45 PM
Europe is a diverse region, where genetically absolutely different people Sardinians and Finns can be called Europeans. Non Indo European Basks are also European. Cyprus located in Asia is Europe.

I see no reason why Georgia can't be a part of Europe. If Georgians want to be a part of European family, and that's how majority of Georgians think, they why not?

You can feel European. I got no problem with it. But your history isn't a European one and you are genetically clearly in the west asian cluster. CHG element is the single major component of the Middle East.

Oghuz
03-17-2020, 10:46 PM
The only place where the word 'white' is used politically is the USA. On internet the use of the word 'white' is pretty useless. And according to the American official documents people of MENA ancestry are white.

But South Asians like Pakistani are not considered Caucasian or White

https://imgur.com/3AGlP6w

White or Caucasoid race is actually not from Europe, but from West Asia. Europeans are a product of different West Asian people. Ancient farmers were from West Asia. Also Yamnaya was partly West Asian.

European culture, civilisation, religion (Christianity) is also from West Asia. It is actually we people in Europe who have identity crisis.

I consider american way of classifying races very stupid. Blue, Brown, Yellow, Green, White ...

White in modern times is a mild concept that does not have a clear criteria on who is white and who is not. It roughly implies someone who is racially Caucasian (to exclude gypsies), native of Europe and is of christian background (to exclude European Jews and Muslims). Hardcore European nationalists do not consider Balkan Muslims as white on basis of faith alone. Hence white is an ethnoreligious identity which Georgians fulfill despite them being not European by geography.

Georgians being closer to Armenians genetically and being of christian faith can call themselves white if Armenians call themselves white. On average a Georgian is much more European looking than any other western Asian group so thats another bonus they have. Like I said before, they are white people of west Asia to me.

user_
03-17-2020, 10:50 PM
No. Caucasus is a distinct region in it's own right. But if I had to group Georgians with either Europeans or Middle Easterners, I would lean towards grouping them with Middle Easterners.

You really think that this people groups better with Iraq or Iran, than with Serbia?


https://youtu.be/--q03kBRplg


https://youtu.be/ibSIW00otGM

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 10:51 PM
Nothing else to say?
Yes shes more real than any of you turks and your ethnic claims.
its funny how you think shes fake, just as your "ex" ruyjin who came to discord just to lie and start fights, seem like a typical middle eastern thing.

i dont understand why she would be fake, people who hate me here can vouch shes real since she have talked to them while they have blocked me.

I have already said but your incapable brain didn’t get it.
Yes sure. He is not my “ex” but also not a “Middle Eastern”, you can compare your “fake” results with his and see you are much more Middle Eastern. “My dad is half Swedish” haha my ass

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 10:59 PM
I have already said but your incapable brain didn’t get it.
Yes sure. He is not my “ex” but also not a “Middle Eastern”, you can compare your “fake” results with his and see you are much more Middle Eastern. “My dad is half Swedish” haha my ass

You already said what?

My dad was classified baltid here, something you turks have wet dreams about.

according to ruyjin he was almost half way in before you kissed him on the cheek and dumped him, thats what he said on

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 11:08 PM
You already said what?

My dad was classified baltid here, something you turks have wet dreams about.

according to ruyjin he was almost half way in before you kissed him on the cheek and dumped him, thats what he said on

I have said everything clearly unlike you liar. Saying you are actually not a Cypriot and then claiming your father is half Swedish is quite funny when the reality is you are a mix of Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian.

Nobody cares about his phenotype. People classifed my maternal grandpa as Baltid as well here, so what? He is still a Turk.

I haven’t had relationship with him and I am not gonna repeat again. If you wanna reply, send me a PM. No need to spoil the thread anymore.

user_
03-17-2020, 11:08 PM
You can feel European. I got no problem with it. But your history isn't a European one and you are genetically clearly in the west asian cluster. CHG element is the single major component of the Middle East.

Ok, let's forget genetics. Tell me honestly if you didn't know who this people are, would you guess them Persian or Serbian? :)


https://youtu.be/lHfhL8IWZiE

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 11:11 PM
I have said everything clearly unlike you liar. Saying you are actually not a Cypriot and then claiming your father is half Swedish is quite funny when the reality is you are a mix of Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian.

Nobody cares about his phenotype. People classifed my maternal grandpa as Baltid as well here, so what? He is still a Turk.

I haven’t had relationship with him and I am not gonna repeat again. If you wanna reply, send me a PM. No need to spoil the thread anymore.

Kivans wishfull atlantid baltid classifications doesn't count.
als not spoil the thread?
your muslim owd ass started attacking me.

whats your TA body count so far?
ruyjin, lonewolf, luca, kivan any more?

brennus dux gallorum
03-17-2020, 11:14 PM
Kivans wishfull atlantid baltid classifications doesn't count.
als not spoil the thread?
your muslim owd ass started attacking me.

whats your TA body count so far?
ruyjin, lonewolf, luca, kivan any more?

maintenance I am a little confused..

Are you half Swede half thessalian or 7/8 pontian and 1/8 georgian? :D

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:15 PM
You really think that this people groups better with Iraq or Iran, than with Serbia?


You are right Georgia looks totally out of place:

Georgia (Europe):
https://cdn.mygeotrip.com/file_manager/images/Travel%20Articles/Georgian%20dance.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/43/e2/8c/43e28c6449a19b9b5dbb0d2790264fc1.jpg
https://eurasianet.org/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/images/012315_01.jpg?itok=2UjKke6l
Azerbaijan (MENA):
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/e9/6f/ebe96f6c313e6d66e719d924d3315c57.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/c1/0b/1bc10b4f03f59cc482287d950130446b.jpg
Iran (MENA):
https://live.staticflickr.com/3056/2930766881_8df43255af_b.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/f0/09/6ff009a748cfc1e560001b473ea2c29c.jpg

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 11:16 PM
maintenance I am a little confused..

Are you half Swede half thessalian or 7/8 pontian and 1/8 georgian? :D

dad is italian and swede, mom greek with roots from west thessaly and rhodes.

user_
03-17-2020, 11:22 PM
You are right Georgia looks totally out of place:

Georgia (Europe):
https://cdn.mygeotrip.com/file_manager/images/Travel%20Articles/Georgian%20dance.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/43/e2/8c/43e28c6449a19b9b5dbb0d2790264fc1.jpg
https://eurasianet.org/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/images/012315_01.jpg?itok=2UjKke6l
Azerbaijan (MENA):
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/e9/6f/ebe96f6c313e6d66e719d924d3315c57.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/c1/0b/1bc10b4f03f59cc482287d950130446b.jpg

You mean Azerbaijan is also Europe? I have no problems with it. I would like to see you guys in EU also )) if you fill you are part of Europe go on!

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 11:23 PM
You can feel European. I got no problem with it. But your history isn't a European one and you are genetically clearly in the west asian cluster. CHG element is the single major component of the Middle East.

You are fully german?If not,you are not in position to say who's european and who isn't.I will agree btw that Georgians are a caucasian group and they don't belong in Europe,but i am really wondering why people want so bad to be europeans.The old good europe is dead,now its a continent full of muslims,atheists,gays,left-liberal cocksuckers(Soros puppets),vegans,feminists and political correct losers..

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:23 PM
You mean Azerbaijan is also Europe? I have no problems with it. I would like to see you guys in EU also )) if you fill you are part of Europe go on!

Being in EU and being European are two different shoes. No I never would like Azerbaijanis to be considered as European considering our history.
Azerbaijan has zero connection to Europe historically other than being part of the Sovietunion.

user_
03-17-2020, 11:26 PM
You are right Georgia looks totally out of place:


Iran (MENA):
https://live.staticflickr.com/3056/2930766881_8df43255af_b.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/f0/09/6ff009a748cfc1e560001b473ea2c29c.jpg

Russians MENA
https://i.ibb.co/6JFtx6r/8cf324ea9ef451d9cbd7d491bc88de54-parti-ukraine.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
Is that your logic?

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 11:28 PM
Kivans wishfull atlantid baltid classifications doesn't count.
als not spoil the thread?
your muslim owd ass started attacking me.

whats your TA body count so far?
ruyjin, lonewolf, luca, kivan any more?

Not only he but also many others.
It’s because you attacked us calling as OWD MENAs, you dumb.

My untrue list seems better than your imaginary one.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 11:30 PM
Not only he but also many others.
It’s because you attacked us calling as OWD MENAs, you dumb.

My untrue list seems better than your imaginary one.

I didn't specifically attack you, but if you identify as MENA and owd thats your issue not mine.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:31 PM
You are fully german?If not,you are not in position to say who's european and who isn't.I will agree btw that Georgians are a caucasian group and they don't belong in Europe,but i am really wondering why people want so bad to be europeans.The old good europe is dead,now its a continent full of muslims,atheists,gays,left-liberal cocksuckers(Soros puppets),vegans,feminists and political correct losers..

Even if I would be fully German I would not be in a position to. A discussion about the ethno-cultural context of Georgians can be lead by everyone who wants to. Georgians who want to feel European won't change their opinion because of me. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 11:36 PM
I didn't specifically attack you, but if you identify as MENA and owd thats your issue not mine.

What’s OWD about me? I am neither MENA nor European. Both are not identical to me, that’s what I say. But you count yourself European as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. The real issue is here.

Bestworld
03-17-2020, 11:38 PM
Even if I would be fully German I would not be in a position to. A discussion about the ethno-cultural context of Georgians can be lead by everyone who wants to. Georgians who want to feel European won't change their opinion because of me. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

No its not that way.They can't feel what they want.Its what they are in reality.Georgia is a country in western asia and more specific in caucasus.From geographical kind of view they are out of EU.Genetically they are also not Europeans but a pure Caucasus group.They also speak a non-european language.My whole point is that someones who's doesn't fully european is not in a place to define who's can be EUROPEAN or not.But anyway being European nowadays its a shame for me but never mind.

user_
03-17-2020, 11:39 PM
Being in EU and being European are two different shoes. No I never would like Azerbaijanis to be considered as European considering our history.
Azerbaijan has zero connection to Europe historically other than being part of the Sovietunion.

Maybe Azeris feel themselves okay in MENA spectrum, you are muslim, have many similarities with Persia, and you feel closer to them. But Georgians who's historical background is Christian, nowadays it has liberal society, can't feel connections with patriarchal muslim region.

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 11:39 PM
What’s OWD about me? I am neither MENA nor European. Both are not identical to me, that’s what I say. But you count yourself European as a Greek Islander, Cypriot and Georgian mutt. The real issue is here.

I didn't call you owd, get some fucking english lessons.

Kyp
03-17-2020, 11:45 PM
Maybe Azeris fill themselves okay in MENA spectrum, you are muslim, have many similarities with Persia, and you fill closer to them. But Georgians who's historical background is Christian, nowadays it has liberal society, can't feel connections with patriarchal muslim region.

Well okay let's leave it at that.

itilvolga
03-17-2020, 11:50 PM
I didn't call you owd, get some fucking english lessons.

So you mentioned OWD for what?

Maintenance
03-17-2020, 11:52 PM
So you mentioned OWD for what?

YOU took offense to my post so if YOU identify as mena and owd, its not my fault, i didnt say it to you.

Borat
03-17-2020, 11:57 PM
No they are not.

itilvolga
03-18-2020, 12:07 AM
YOU took offense to my post so if YOU identify as mena and owd, its not my fault, i didnt say it to you.

I didn’t get it wrong then since nobody (including me) would “identify as OWD” so it makes sense asking you what’s OWD about me if I identify as such. You better take an English course for yourself before advising me, though:


Kivans wishfull atlantid baltid classifications doesn't count.


who came to discord just to lie and start fights, seem like a typical middle eastern thing.

i dont understand why she would be fake, people who hate me here can vouch shes real since she have talked to them while they have blocked me.

Maintenance
03-18-2020, 12:36 AM
I didn’t get it wrong then since nobody (including me) would “identify as OWD” so it makes sense asking you what’s OWD about me if I identify as such. You better take an English course for yourself before advising me, though:

Stupid cockroach your iq is monkey tier


Atleast WE you took offense since you identify as Middle Eastern and OWD, i never called you that, YOU reacted because you identify with it, now dont quote me again.

https://i.imgur.com/DUqdWy5.jpg

itilvolga
03-18-2020, 12:44 AM
Stupid cockroach your iq is monkey tier


Atleast WE you took offense since you identify as Middle Eastern and OWD, i never called you that, YOU reacted because you identify with it, now dont quote me again.

https://i.imgur.com/DUqdWy5.jpg

I love how you feel trapped hahahaha it was nice to piss you off, have a good night.

Laag
03-18-2020, 07:19 AM
It’s because you attacked us calling as OWD MENAs, you dumb.



Turks are MENA because MENA is an English-language acronym referring to the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, which corresponds to the Greater Middle East.
MENA countries.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Greater_Middle_East_%28orthographic_projection%29. svg/800px-Greater_Middle_East_%28orthographic_projection%29. svg.png
https://www.ramyabdu.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/tmp750673133966458880.png

Turks phenotypically, culturally, historically are closer to MENA people than even to Circassians or other Caucasian groups.

Hajimurad
03-18-2020, 11:12 AM
1. Georgians are not oriental Christians, Georgians are orthodox Christians, like most of Slavs and other East Europeans.
2. Sovetisation and Russia maybe bring Europe to Central Asia and but not to Georgia.
I'll show some pictures of Georgian art and architecture of X-XII centuries, there were 0 Russian influences at that time, it was Georgia influencing other neighbors.
If that is not European, tell me what is Europe?

Georgia is located in Caucasus. Caucasus isn't part of Europe because Europe-Asia border is Ural, Volga and Don.
Georgian temple architecture and art resemble Armenian one than Byzantine or Roman Catholic art. Armenians are Oriental Christians.
When people speak about Europe they mean countries like Italy, England, France, Benelux and Germany. There are Pre-Russian Georgians:
https://bagrationi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/теймураз2й.png
https://bagrationi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ираклий2.jpg
https://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0908/e8/3244057d74c2.jpg
And look to Georgians after Sovietization
https://image.jimcdn.com/app/cms/image/transf/dimension=4000x3000:format=jpg/path/sab015f87eb039000/image/ifadc3e43c71d9352/version/1520250380/image.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Kbo2iiHFCnSQ-S6aHUqxYGjPs6y5FH0srOE9rzrzwW2BB8fxJPxuAex1wzpGy87--GeM2gxJzrAjj-WBpY4WLjY
https://uznayvse.ru/images/stories/uzn_1387179295.jpg

Sora
03-18-2020, 11:29 AM
No, they're not, they're mostly West Asian. But they're culturally very Euro-influenced.

Also they're lightest West Asians (light hair & eyes are the most frequent among the West Asian countries)

Rumata
03-18-2020, 04:31 PM
..

Rumata
03-18-2020, 04:40 PM
All this is just Caucasian dances. But culture isn't dances only.


You are right Georgia looks totally out of place:

Georgia (Europe):
https://cdn.mygeotrip.com/file_manager/images/Travel%20Articles/Georgian%20dance.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/43/e2/8c/43e28c6449a19b9b5dbb0d2790264fc1.jpg
https://eurasianet.org/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/images/012315_01.jpg?itok=2UjKke6l
Azerbaijan (MENA):
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/e9/6f/ebe96f6c313e6d66e719d924d3315c57.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/c1/0b/1bc10b4f03f59cc482287d950130446b.jpg
Iran (MENA):
https://live.staticflickr.com/3056/2930766881_8df43255af_b.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/f0/09/6ff009a748cfc1e560001b473ea2c29c.jpg

Ford
03-18-2020, 04:45 PM
Georgians culturally, racially and genetically belongs to two groups:
- Oriental Christians (like Armenians, Syriacs)
- Caucasians
Neither of these group are European. Curiously Sovietization make Georgians closer to Europe. Before Russian annexion Georgia was under cultural influence of Iran from pagan times.

I don't think they're European, but they're not Oriental Christians either. They're regular Orthodoxes.

Hajimurad
03-18-2020, 05:06 PM
I don't think they're European, but they're not Oriental Christians either. They're regular Orthodoxes.

Before 607-610 (Third council of Dvin) Georgian church was the same as Armenian but after became Orthodox. Nevertheless Georgians call their church leader as Catholicos and built temples with conical roofs.

Universe
03-18-2020, 05:21 PM
They're whiter than Markos.

Rumata
03-18-2020, 05:44 PM
Caucasus isn't part of Europe because Europe-Asia border is Ural, Volga and Don.

Geographically, the border is not on Don, but on the Caucasus ridge.

Europe is commonly considered to be separated from Asia by the watershed divides of the Ural and Caucasus Mountains, the Ural River, the Caspian and Black Seas and the waterways of the Turkish Straits
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

Rumata
03-18-2020, 05:46 PM
according to ruyjin he was almost half way in before you kissed him on the cheek and dumped him, thats what he said on


whats your TA body count so far?
ruyjin, lonewolf, luca, kivan any more?

More soap opera? :popcorn:

Zanzibar
06-09-2021, 04:42 AM
I actually confused them for Khanty and Mansi. Komi and Mari are like 20% East Asian/Siberian, while those are close to 50%.

No, Mari are around 32% East Asian/Siberian, not 20%. They are almost Hapa lol.

Target: Mari
Distance: 9.6244% / 0.09624447
48.2 Baltic_EST_BA
32.2 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
11.8 TKM_Gonur1_BA
7.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

Target: Mari
Distance: 9.5642% / 0.09564226
68.0 Estonian
32.0 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA


The distance is not that good as Maris are very drifted but that's how much East Eurasian they usually score as observed from other calculators.

Frowning Man
06-09-2021, 06:37 AM
Georgia is located in Caucasus. Caucasus isn't part of Europe because Europe-Asia border is Ural, Volga and Don.
Georgian temple architecture and art resemble Armenian one than Byzantine or Roman Catholic art. Armenians are Oriental Christians.
When people speak about Europe they mean countries like Italy, England, France, Benelux and Germany. There are Pre-Russian Georgians:
https://bagrationi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/теймураз2й.png
https://bagrationi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ираклий2.jpg
https://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0908/e8/3244057d74c2.jpg
And look to Georgians after Sovietization
https://image.jimcdn.com/app/cms/image/transf/dimension=4000x3000:format=jpg/path/sab015f87eb039000/image/ifadc3e43c71d9352/version/1520250380/image.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Kbo2iiHFCnSQ-S6aHUqxYGjPs6y5FH0srOE9rzrzwW2BB8fxJPxuAex1wzpGy87--GeM2gxJzrAjj-WBpY4WLjY
https://uznayvse.ru/images/stories/uzn_1387179295.jpg

Georgian kings and noble families often made marriages with people of other nationalities, for example, they took Armenian or Alanian princesses as their wives, this is a normal phenomenon for the elite, so they are the least like Georgians. People in 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the picture, they all belonged either to the royal family, the man in the fourth picture belonged to the Noble family. Therefore, they are all hyper mixed especially with Armenians, and they have no less Armenian blood, and maybe more than Georgian.

And Kikabidze (5th photo) is not the best example for demonstrating Georgians, even for me he is less typical Georgian than Kakhi Kavsadze. He looks more like a real Georgian.
Kakhi Kavsadze.
https://b.radikal.ru/b30/2103/9d/4d281146ff48.jpg

Frowning Man
06-09-2021, 06:50 AM
Georgia is not Europe and has nothing to do with Europe. We are different genetically, we are different externally (anthropologically) and we have a different mentality.
But for me Georgia and not the Middle East.
Georgia is the Caucasus.

Super Mario
06-09-2021, 09:51 AM
Georgians are not Europeans, Armenians are not Europeans, Turks are not Europeans(except some of balkan immigrants).