100% probability Scythians ancestral to Kurds & some Iranians according to big study

[Zoro]

Ancestry and demography and descendants of Iron Age nomads of the Eurasian Steppe

An extensive study of Scythian genomes by Unterländer, Lazaridis, Reich and others shows that Kurds and some Iranians have almost a 100% probability of being descended from Western Scythians.

The other surprise is Kurds have one of the highest probabilities from Indo-Iranians of being descended from Eastern Scythians in addition to Western Scythians.

They used very sophisticated methods to arrive at their conclusions

This is consistent with what Eurasian DNA independently found a couple of years that Tian Shan Saka are ancestral to Kurds. Kudos to Dilawer. https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/

The Kurdish group consisted of 30 samples of Kurmanji Kurds from Turkmenistan which are basically and extension of Khorasani Kurds in Iran. Khorasani Kurds number about 1.5 million and are basically Kurmanji Kurds who migrated there about 500 years ago and still speak Kurmanji Kurdish.

From their supplement (typo corrected) Numbers are probabilities not admixture percentage

https://i.imgur.com/XMrqlG4.jpg


Decent from E Scythians (dark grey). Pink shows decent from W Scythians

https://i.imgur.com/TWJHPAp.jpg



Decent from W Scythians shown in red

https://i.imgur.com/uIUftgD.jpg

[Zoro]

These are the population codes

https://i.imgur.com/1miWpUv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fh0Fyhw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wVxljjX.jpg

[Kmakkmak]

I think that Turkic people have partial scythian origin.

[Zoro]

I think that Turkic people have partial scythian origin.

Yes especially from Eastern Scythians but I think that R1a in Turks is Indo-Iranian Scythians who were assimilated by Turkics when they expanded from the northern Altai around the 4th to 10th century AD. So in effect Turkics also have some Indo-Iranian ancestry.

[Kmakkmak]

Yes especially from Eastern Scythians but I think that R1a in Turks is Indo-Iranian Scythians who were assimilated by Turkics when they expanded from the northern Altai around the 4th to 10th century AD. So in effect Turkics also have some Indo-Iranian ancestry.

You have Q-M25 y dna?

[Zoro]

You have Q-M25 y dna?

Yes

[Kmakkmak]

Yes

It is interesting for a Kurd? you have paternal turkic origin.

[Zoro]

It is interesting for a Kurd? you have paternal turkic origin.

Yes my grandfather is Turkmen. I have to research Q-M25 but i think Turkmen have quite a bit

[PaleoEuropean]

Anyone who says 100% referring to ADNA should be laughed and pointed at.

1. Kurds aren't a single ethnicity, they are an amalgamation of peoples
2. Kurds don't speak the same language or even all have the same religion
3. Their Ydna paints a different picture

https://i.imgur.com/sHYJOZp.png

[Zoro]

Anyone who says 100% referring to ADNA should be laughed and pointed at.

1. Kurds aren't a single ethnicity, they are an amalgamation of peoples
2. Kurds don't speak the same language or even all have the same religion
3. Their Ydna paints a different picture

https://i.imgur.com/sHYJOZp.png

Well kurd in Middle Persian means nomad. I agree that our languages such as kurmanji, feyli, sorani, gorani, zaza are quite different and some sentences are not mutually intelligible.

I blame the simplistic program Admixture G25 or some of the commercial testing companies for homogenizing kurdish results but more sophisticated formal programs can easily detect differences. This said all kurds have a core Chalcolithic zagrosian base but the amount of mede parthian anatolian scythian Mesopotamian BMAC levant varies between say zazas and feyli kurds and reflects the large area kurds occupy and neighboring populations

[Historyinterest]

Anyone who says 100% referring to ADNA should be laughed and pointed at.

Spot on. This includes many other facets of science in general. Just don't use "100%".

[PaleoEuropean]

Spot on. This includes many other facets of science in general. Just don't use "100%".

Very true, nothing in science is concrete except some fundamental things and even those have their questions

[axlredneck]

Lol! Those charts and graphs are an indication of the mt-DNA, not actual descent or ancestry! :picard1::picard1:

From the study:

In this study, mtDNA data from 96 individuals associated with the Scythian culture in different geographical regions and time periods have been sequenced and analysed; additionally, genomic data from eight of these individuals was obtained and analysed (Supplementary Table 1). From the western part of the Eurasian Steppe, samples discovered in the North Caucasus dating to the initial Scythian period (eighth to sixth century BCE), classical Scythians from the Don-Volga region (third century BCE), and Early Sarmatians from Pokrovka, southwest of the Ural (fifth to second century BCE), were included. From the eastern part of the Eurasian Steppe, we analysed samples from East Kazakhstan dating to the Zevakino-Chilikta phase (ninth to seventh century BCE); from the site Arzhan 2, assigned to the Aldy Bel culture in Tuva (seventh to sixth century BCE); and from the Tagar culture of the Minusinsk Basin (fifth century BCE).

[Zoro]

Lol! Those charts and graphs are an indication of the mt-DNA, not actual descent or ancestry! :picard1::picard1:

From the study:


In this study, mtDNA data from 96 individuals associated with the Scythian culture in different geographical regions and time periods have been sequenced and analysed; additionally, genomic data from eight of these individuals was obtained and analysed (Supplementary Table 1). From the western part of the Eurasian Steppe, samples


Results
Samples and sequence data. We generated genome-wide capture
data on a target set of 1,233,553 SNPs 26,27 for six individuals: two
Early Sarmatians from the southern Ural region (PR9, PR3, group
#3 in Fig. 2; fifth to second century BCE), two individuals from
Berel’ in East Kazakhstan (Be9, Be11, #6) dating to the Pazyryk
period (fourth to third century BCE), and two individuals found
in kurgan Arzhan 2 (A10, A17, #5)


DON'T TROLL THIS THREAD MAN. Do you think everyone is a stupid 1st grader here and can't read the paper for themselves and see which charts refer to mt DNA and which to autosomal. These are the same samples that have been used in many threads here and on Gedmatch.

[axlredneck]

DON'T TROLL THIS THREAD MAN. Do you think everyone is a stupid 1st grader here and can't read the paper for themselves and see which charts refer to mt DNA and which to autosomal. These are the same samples that have been used in many threads here and on Gedmatch.

You're the one trolling. True that eight genomes were processed for autosomal, but can these eight tell about all eastern and western Scythians?
What about those 96 genomes whose mt-DNA was tested and compared with contemporary populations?

[Cumansky]

I'm from Ukraine

Target: Cumansky
Distance: 3.7661% / 0.03766134
29.2 NOR_N_HG
26.4 Saka_Tian_Shan
24.6 MKD_N
12.2 Kurdish
4.6 Gambian
2.0 Fulani
1.0 BedouinB

[axlredneck]

These are the population codes

https://i.imgur.com/Fh0Fyhw.jpg

And, from the supplementary information, reference for Persians and Kurds (#78) gives me this: Quintana-Murci, L. et al. Where west meets east: the complex mtDNA landscape of the southwest and Central Asian corridor. American Journal of Human Genetics 74, 827-845 (2004).

[Zoro]

You're the one trolling. True that eight genomes were processed for autosomal, but can these eight tell about all eastern and western Scythians?
What about those 96 genomes whose mt-DNA was tested and compared with contemporary populations?

Show me one chart where they compared the Scythian mt-DNA to those of the 100s of modern samples they used . Better yet, show me one table where they even list what the Mt-DNA is for the 100s of the modern samples in the study. Use common sense.

Show me where in the description of the charts I posted there's even a hint about Mt-DNA.


Model posteriors for descent from Scythian populations for 86 contemporary human populations in
Central Asia. Given for each contemporary sample are pie-charts representing the model posteriors for descent from western
Scythians (black), descent from eastern Scythians (grey) ancestral relatedness to western Scythians (red) or eastern Scythian groups
(green). Also given are the approximate locations of the ancient DNA samples and the historical range of Iron Age Scythian tribes
(orange area). See Supplementary Table 19 for detailed information on contemporary populations. Source: underlying map was created
by Tom Patterson, and downloaded from http://www.shadedrelief.com.

I already posted Table 19 for the contemporary populations. Nothing about their Mt-DNA. Zip. I know you're trolling

[Zoro]

And, from the supplementary information, reference for Persians and Kurds (#78) gives me this: Quintana-Murci, L. et al. Where west meets east: the complex mtDNA landscape of the southwest and Central Asian corridor. American Journal of Human Genetics 74, 827-845 (2004).

What's your point. They're not allowed to post any references that talk about Mt-DNA

[axlredneck]

Show me one chart where they compared the Scythian mt-DNA to those of the 100s of modern samples they used . Better yet, show me one table where they even list what the Mt-DNA is for the 100s of the modern samples in the study. Use common sense.

Show me where in the description of the charts I posted there's even a hint about Mt-DNA.



I already posted Table 19 for the contemporary populations. Nothing about their Mt-DNA. Zip. I know you're trolling

If you're stubborn and dont wanna accept the truth, well, don't! I gave you the reference from the same Table 19, and from the same Supplementary Information, and no where else.

[axlredneck]

What's your point. They're not allowed to post any references that talk about Mt-DNA

Check the references in the supplementary information.

[Zoro]

I'm from Ukraine

Target: Cumansky
Distance: 3.7661% / 0.03766134
29.2 NOR_N_HG
26.4 Saka_Tian_Shan
24.6 MKD_N
12.2 Kurdish
4.6 Gambian
2.0 Fulani
1.0 BedouinB


Yeah, Ukrainians and other E Europeans have quite a bit of W Scythian ancestry. I'm not saying this based on what looks like a G25 output because those types of programs don't parse the various Scythians well and they are not even informative to the direction of geneflow. So for example if Saka Tian Shan hypothetically had 26% ancestry related to Ukrainians it would still show what you are showing.

BTW, if I was Ukrainian I would start out with logical sources such as the Ukrainian or other E European or Caucasus Scythian samples along with some MLBA steppe along with maybe E European Chl and maybe SW Asian sources

[Zoro]

If you're stubborn and dont wanna accept the truth, well, don't! I gave you the reference from the same Table 19, and from the same Supplementary Information, and no where else.

If they wanted to compare Scythian Mt-DNA to the 500 contemporary samples they would list the Mt-DNA for each sample or show the Mt-DNA breakdown for each contemporary population.

Do yourself a favor and be guided by the descriptions for each figure and don't blanket assume every damn chart and figure in the paper is about Mt-DNA. In fact the opposite is true. If you carefully read each table or chart description you'll see that most of them are about autosomes. No one ever does dstats or f4s or f3s on Mt-DNA.

Enough time wasted on 1st grade stuff

[Cumansky]

Yeah, Ukrainians and other E Europeans have quite a bit of W Scythian ancestry. I'm not saying this based on what looks like a G25 output because those types of programs don't parse the various Scythians well and they are not even informative to the direction of geneflow. So for example if Saka Tian Shan hypothetically had 26% ancestry related to Ukrainians it would still show what you are showing.

BTW, if I was Ukrainian I would start out with logical sources such as the Ukrainian or other E European or Caucasus Scythian samples along with some MLBA steppe along with maybe E European Chl and maybe SW Asian sources

I ran some model just now, when I remove Saka Tian Shan from spreadsheet and run it isolated was picking a low distance around 1, majority of genome was Kurdish, a smaller part was picking up Mongolian ancient samples, and a trace Baltic North European

For me Saka Tian Shan in this basic run pick up Eurasian ancestry mostly Caucasoid some trace Mongoloid but also something that went into Western Europeans probably Sintasha related if I had to bet

But I have low West Euro ancestry we went to war with Nazi, so whatever is in the Western Euros and Kurds probably also survive from Cossacks

[axlredneck]

If they wanted to compare Scythian Mt-DNA to the 500 contemporary samples they would list the Mt-DNA for each sample or show the Mt-DNA breakdown for each contemporary population.

Do yourself a favor and be guided by the descriptions for each figure and don't blanket assume every damn chart and figure in the paper is about Mt-DNA. In fact the opposite is true. If you carefully read each table or chart description you'll see that most of them are about autosomes. No one ever does dstats or f4s or f3s on Mt-DNA.

Enough time wasted on 1st grade stuff

S. Figure 10 and 11 direct you to S. Table 19 for reference populations, and the latter directs to the references for information relating to each and every ethnicity mentioned in the table. Each reference is about MT-DNA and not autosomal related! Plus, they wouldn't have to compare each and every ethnicity separately to show that this ethnicity has this percentage of mt-DNA. They've made charts and that serves the purpose!

[Kaspias]

Using the stuff like G25 is better while determining potential ancestry, it is open-ended, unlike dstats and f. These are good while seeing geneflow as you stated but before check geneflow, you have to be sure that you have this admixture. However, I can't see such input at the beginning. Simple, if I would model myself here with Haji-Firuz Chl, W-Scythian, I would be around 80% Scythian and it would really show my geneflow. But this does not necessarily reflect reality.

I think optimist, and believe that these are all accurate, then it also should show up in G25.

https://i.ibb.co/9ZGCs3f/Ads-z.png

Avg comparison with other Iranians:

https://i.ibb.co/fnQfHk3/MG.png

[Zoro]

S. Figure 10 and 11 direct you to S. Table 19 for reference populations, and the latter directs to the references for information relating to each and every ethnicity mentioned in the table. Each reference is about MT-DNA and not autosomal related! Plus, they wouldn't have to compare each and every ethnicity separately to show that this ethnicity has this percentage of mt-DNA. They've made charts and that serves the purpose!


Sure boss the whole fucking paper is nothing but mt-dna and sure they don’t have to give the mt-dna distribution or the mt haplogroup of the 500 modern samples they’re comparing the scythians to . We can all just guess what their mt-dna distribution or haplogroup is. I mean that’s how scientific papers are written....

All the fucking Admixture plots are mt-dna based
All the f3 graphs are mt-dna based
All the f4 graphs are mt-dna based
All the qpwave and qpAdm outputs are mt-dna based. Who cares if those programs are built for autosomal inputs. What do Lazaridis and Reich know about these programs. Their institutions just happen to build them

And kurd mt-dna is all Scythian. Happy?

Now get lost and stop cluttering this thread with useless rubbish

[axlredneck]

Sure boss the whole fucking paper is nothing but mt-dna and sure they don’t have to give the mt-dna distribution or the mt haplogroup of the 500 modern samples they’re comparing the scythians to . We can all just guess what their mt-dna distribution or haplogroup is. I mean that’s how scientific papers are written....

All the fucking Admixture plots are mt-dna based
All the f3 graphs are mt-dna based
All the f4 graphs are mt-dna based
All the qpwave and qpAdm outputs are mt-dna based. Who cares if those programs are built for autosomal inputs. What do Lazaridis and Reich know about these programs. Their institutions just happen to build them

And kurd mt-dna is all Scythian. Happy?

Now get lost and stop cluttering this thread with useless rubbish

You have the comprehension skills of a fucking amoeba!
You get lost instead.

[Zoro]

Using the stuff like G25 is better while determining potential ancestry, it is open-ended, unlike dstats and f. These are good while seeing geneflow as you stated but before check geneflow, you have to be sure that you have this admixture. However, I can't see such input at the beginning. Simple, if I would model myself here with Haji-Firuz Chl, W-Scythian, I would be around 80% Scythian and it would really show my geneflow. But this does not necessarily reflect reality.

I think optimist, and believe that these are all accurate, then it also should show up in G25.

https://i.ibb.co/9ZGCs3f/Ads-z.png

Avg comparison with other Iranians:

https://i.ibb.co/fnQfHk3/MG.png



A couple of points real quick:

1- It’s never a good idea to use a program such as ADMIXTURE or PCA to calculate ancestry where the program user throws 1000s of samples in the run because the 1000s of samples have an UNKNOWN push or pull on the target you’re trying to model. That’s why if Davidski had run the PCA with only the samples which make sense for each specific target or the ADMIXTURE program is only run using logical sources for your specific target the G25 coordinates or ADMIXTURE output would be totally different and make more sense. But these people will not run them this way because it’s not practical for them since they would have to do 100s of PCA or ADMIXTURE runs one for each specific population and tell the users if you belong to population A you can only use calculator A or G25 coordinates obtained using only sources logical for population A

You’ll notice that’s exactly what they do in scientific papers when modelling someone using dstats f3s or qpAdm theyonly use a couple of sources and outgroups in each model

2- G-25 or Admixture doesn’t tell you standard error or p-value or model likelihood for EACH specific model. Distance is not an acceptable measure

3- The formal models f3s f4s qpAdm and so on including the paper in the OP contradict what you just posted. Sorry,but I’ll go with them over G25 or ADMIXTURE for the reasons mentioned and more any day.

[Zoro]

I would be around 80% Scythian and it would really show my geneflow. But this does not necessarily reflect reality.

Not if you have someone who knows what they’re doing model you with qpAdm using the logical sources for your group.maybe anatolia chl, bulgaria chl, haji firuz, and various scythians and Sarmatian s

[Zoro]

..........

[bained]

Are kurds the albanians of Middle East?

[Dr_Maul]

Honest question, why do people (of multiple backgrounds) want to be Scythian so bad? I have seen it all over the place from Iranians Turks Russians etc. You would think by the sheer amount of Persians and Turkish peoples who brag about their Scythian brethren that these people were some sort of superhumans who came from Mars or something. Scythian contributions to society are somewhat equal with SSA's lmao. Reality of the situation is that Scythians are not a race or a people, but a conglomeration / confederacy of nomads composed of Turkic types in the east, Iranics in the center / south, and Slavic types in the west.

[Zoro]

Honest question, why do people (of multiple backgrounds) want to be Scythian so bad? I have seen it all over the place from Iranians Turks Russians etc. You would think by the sheer amount of Persians and Turkish peoples who brag about their Scythian brethren that these people were some sort of superhumans who came from Mars or something. Scythian contributions to society are somewhat equal with SSA's lmao. Reality of the situation is that Scythians are not a race or a people, but a conglomeration / confederacy of nomads composed of Turkic types in the east, Iranics in the center / south, and Slavic types in the west.

Agree with most of your points. I think most people like to be associated with ancient warriors . For me it’s connecting with all my roots. To me the ancient Persians are just as important but as a Kurd I take it for granted that Medes Parthians and the like are my ancestors but i also would like to quantify my Indo Iranian steppe heritage and yes also my Turkic since I’m a composite of all. They’re all important although i think we got our tall genes and some of our warrior genes and E Eurasian from the diverse steppe amalgamation known as Saka/ Scythians

It’s nice to be able to connect the linguistic, artifact dots with genetics and also share information that simplistic programs such as Admixture and PCA Doesn’t pick up on

[Aileron]

Scythians are my relatives too.

Lol Jk

[Zoro]

Are kurds the albanians of Middle East?

We share some ancient balkan and anatolian with then but so do a few others in ME

[Historyinterest]

Are kurds the albanians of Middle East?

I think that label should be assigned to Armenians

[Zoro]

Scythians are my relatives too.

Lol Jk

Yes the diverse Scythians are are ancestral to many Caucasians whether Adygei or Balkar, most Iranics and Turks also.

[Kyp]

Are kurds the albanians of Middle East?

yes. Very tribal people.


Scythians are my relatives too.

Lol Jk

Mine too.

[TheOldNorth]

These are the population codes

https://i.imgur.com/1miWpUv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fh0Fyhw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wVxljjX.jpg

Could someone like put this in to English please, I don’t speak scientific model mathematics

[Zoro]

Could someone like put this in to English please, I don’t speak scientific model mathematics

Pi is nucleotide diversity. It's a measure of genetic variation among a population. It's the average number of nucleotide differences per site between two DNA sequences in all possible pairs in the sample population. So for Kurds, Iranians and Hazaras it's 0.020 which is on the higher side.

A negative Tajima's D signifies an excess of low frequency alleles relative to expectation, indicating population size expansion (e.g., after a bottleneck or a selective sweep) and/or purifying selection.

[Eline]

So, this study is basically saying that the most of non-native DNA in Kurds roughly between 20-25% comes mostly from the back migrating Scythians. Almost 100% chance that it is from the Scythians.

Most people knew that already, nothing new here. But now we have some backing from genes department.

[TheOldNorth]

So, this study is basically saying that the most of non-native DNA in Kurds roughly between 20-25% comes mostly from the back migrating Scythians. Almost 100% chance that it is from the Scythians.

Most people knew that already, nothing new here. But now we have some backing from genes department.

To be honest I had no idea

[Chelubey]

The origin of the Kurds (Kurdish language) from the Scythians is chronologically impossible.
Kurdish language belongs to the Western Iranian languages (like Persian).
Where and when did the West Iranian languages first be witnessed?
Medes - 8th century BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes
Persia - 6th century BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire
In Avesta there described confrontaition between the ancestors of Persians (Western Iranians) and Sakas(Turan).
Stop fantasizing.
The ancient Greeks preserved for us quite a few descriptions of the traditions, customs and legends of the Scythians.
Can Kurds find at least one phenomenon related them to scythians described in ancient Greek sources?

[Eline]

The ancient Greeks preserved for us quite a few descriptions of the traditions, customs and legends of the Scythians.
Can Kurds find at least one phenomenon related them to scythians described in ancient Greek sources?
Only one?

1.
An ancient Kurdish mother goddess ShahMaran is related to the Scythian goddess 'Api'

https://i.postimg.cc/0jLkXc0t/ace.jpg


2.
Scytho-Cimmerian stelae in Kurdistan

https://i.postimg.cc/kXT35jbL/D-0-Gf2l-W4-AUSr30.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/BnzrTXNg/Mardin-daggers-sun.png


3.
Kurdish city Saqqez was the home city and capital of the Scythians


4.
The ancient Scythian festival of Sakaia survived in Kurdistan: http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2010/11/ancient-scythian-festival-of-sakaia.html


5.
Many Scythian words in Kurdish: http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2010/04/scythian-proto-kurdish-language.html



More about the similarities between Scythians and Kurds

http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2010/

[TheOldNorth]

The origin of the Kurds (Kurdish language) from the Scythians is chronologically impossible.
Kurdish language belongs to the Western Iranian languages (like Persian).
Where and when did the West Iranian languages first be witnessed?
Medes - 8th century BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes
Persia - 6th century BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire
In Avesta there described confrontaition between the ancestors of Persians (Western Iranians) and Sakas(Turan).
Stop fantasizing.
The ancient Greeks preserved for us quite a few descriptions of the traditions, customs and legends of the Scythians.
Can Kurds find at least one phenomenon related them to scythians described in ancient Greek sources?

They are talking genetically not linguistically, And even then if you would read a couple comments up it said only partially genetically

[Eline]

Kurdish Origins & the Saka Claim. Pt. 1 - Credibility of Sources

http://zoroastrianheritage.blogspot.com/2015/07/kurdish-origins-saka-pt-1-credibility.html


Kurdish Origins & the Saka Claim. Pt. 2 - Inscriptions at Saqqez, Kurdistan (Iran)

http://zoroastrianheritage.blogspot.com/2015/07/inscriptions-found-at-c-kurdistan-iran.html


Scythian dish found at Sakkez/Saqqez, Iranian Kurdistan. Saqqez was the capital of the Scythians in West Asia.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v6QnqDjk8Ew/VZEIEgwEzyI/AAAAAAAABmE/aSdm-16eyqE/s1600/Sakkez%2Bdish%2B-%2Btrim.jpg


Luwian-Hittite hieroglyphic script characters of the type used on the Sakkez/Saqqez, Iranian Kurdistan plate.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--b8tWGHmyC0/VZG9uiqtwcI/AAAAAAAABmg/JU12gc-I3Uo/s1600/Inscription%2Busing%2BHieroglyphic%2BHittite%2BLuw ian%2BSakkez%2BKurdistan.png

[Chelubey]

They are talking genetically not linguistically, And even then if you would read a couple comments up it said only partially genetically
Tuvinians and English are also genetically partially Scythians

[Eline]

Google Scythian Ziwiye treasure found in Kurdish city Saqqez.

https://www.ancient-art.co.uk/scythian-gold-the-ziwiye-treasure/

You will see a lot Scythian golden objects found in Saqqez, like this:

https://i.postimg.cc/tgFtD4FP/ziwiye-hoard-c7281dde-c163-420c-abd1-bcbd8fa0de3-resize-750.jpg

[Chelubey]

Only one?

1.
An ancient Kurdish mother goddess ShahMaran is related to the Scythian goddess 'Api'

https://i.postimg.cc/0jLkXc0t/ace.jpg

I do not see the connection between these gods.
In the history of mankind, there were hundreds of female gods, and all of them are similar in one way or another. There are Turkic female deities. Apa in Turkic languages means mistress,missis, mother.







Scytho-Cimmerian stelae in Kurdistan
https://i.postimg.cc/kXT35jbL/D-0-Gf2l-W4-AUSr30.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/BnzrTXNg/Mardin-daggers-sun.png

It is wrong circular reasoning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning)
These steles are found from Tuva to Anatolia.
You must provide evidence like these:
Recording
European traveler William of Rubruck mentioned them for the first time in the 13th century, seeing them on kurgans in the Cuman (Kipchak) country, he reported that Cumans installed these statues on tombs of their deceased
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_stelae


Kurdish city Saqqez was the home city and capital of the Scythians

Yes, the Scythians were in the Middle East and probably even genetically made some contribution to the Kurds, which does not mean that the Kurdish language and culture come from the Scythians.


The ancient Scythian festival of Sakaia survived in Kurdistan: http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2010/11/ancient-scythian-festival-of-sakaia.html

Possibly the Iranian holiday Novruz has something to do with the Scythian holiday of sakaya. But the authors themselves (from the link) claim that this holiday is not of Iranian origin and was borrowed by Western Iranians from the Scythians. By the way, part of Turkic people also celebrate this holiday. It is just a regional international cultural phenomen.

[Eline]

Yes, the Scythians were in the Middle East and probably even genetically made some contribution to the Kurds, which does not mean that the Kurdish language and culture come from the Scythians.Honestly I don’t understand you.

Major Kurdish ancestors were the Gutians/Medes. Kurds always say that they are from the West Iranian Medes. Kurds are also the West Iranian speakers.

Kurds are native to Kurdistan. What OP is trying to say that minor non-native (non-Median) part of the Kurdish DNA is from the Scythians. There is almost 100% match with the Scythian DNA.

But, once upon a time in some Kurdish cities (like Saqqez or ArdAlan) lived Scythians. The major power of the Scythians was concentrated in Kurdistan. I showed you archaeological evidences that the Scythians lived in the ancient Kurdish cities. Now they are gone. Where are they? Genocide? I don't think so. Most likely they were just assimilated by the Medes who were true direct ancestors of the Kurds. Ancient Greeks wrote about the Scythians in Kurdistan. According to the ancient Greeks the Gutians/Medes (proto-Kurds) assimilated those Scythians who lived once in Kurdistan after the Medes killed their Scythians leaders/kings. Now they found some genetic traces of those Scythians in Kurdish DNA.


Haji-Firuz is native DNA of the West Iranian people: Gutians/Medes + there is some non-native element in the Kurds. And that element is matching almost for 100% with the Scythians. Just read the OP.

https://i.postimg.cc/bNy9zPkH/377-CA70-B-CA59-460-E-9-C45-AD0669885-DAE.png

https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/

[Zoro]

Honestly I don’t understand you.

Major Kurdish ancestors were the Gutians/Medes. Kurds always say that they are from the West Iranian Medes. Kurds are also the West Iranian speakers.

Kurds are native to Kurdistan. What OP is trying to say that minor non-native (non-Median) part of the Kurdish DNA is from the Scythians. There is almost 100% match with the Scythian DNA.

But, once upon a time in some Kurdish cities (like Saqqez or ArdAlan) lived Scythians. The major power of the Scythians was concentrated in Kurdistan. I showed you archaeological evidences that the Scythians lived in the ancient Kurdish cities. Now they are gone. Where are they? Genocide? I don't think so. Most likely they were just assimilated by the Medes who were true direct ancestors of the Kurds. Ancient Greeks wrote about the Scythians in Kurdistan. According to the ancient Greeks the Gutians/Medes (proto-Kurds) assimilated those Scythians who lived once in Kurdistan after the Medes killed their Scythians leaders/kings. Now they found some genetic traces of those Scythians in Kurdish DNA.


Haji-Firuz is native DNA of the West Iranian people: Gutians/Medes + there is some non-native element in the Kurds. And that element is matching almost for 100% with the Scythians. Just read the OP.

https://i.postimg.cc/bNy9zPkH/377-CA70-B-CA59-460-E-9-C45-AD0669885-DAE.png

https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/



According to Dilawer at Eurasian DNA they are doing a much more in depth study now of the relationship between Sarmatians/Saka/Scythians and Iranics in light of the new ancient Sarmatian/Saka/Scythian samples that became available after the study and they are also taking a deeper look at the more recent Kurdish/Iranian ancient samples of Iron Age Hasanlu and Haji-Firuz IA as well as Haji-Firuz BA which were not available to them before.

The reason they are also taking a deeper look at the W Iranian Iron Age samples that become available after their first study is to see what type of admixture W iranians had by the Iron Age and whether there was additional admixture from C Asia after the Iron Age. They are taking an ingenious approach to this by asking the question how modern populations in the W Iran area differ in terms of modeling as Hasanlu IA an Haji-Firuz IA. In other words do NW Iranians and Kurds and Armenians need additional Sarmatian type admixture after Hasanlu IA and Haji-Firuz IA vs post Haji-Firuz Chl and Seh Gabi Chl.

Dilawer said he has found a better Saka/Sarmatian sample than Tian-Shan Saka that was ancestral to Kurds and which was not available to him when he published this article but he would not disclose the identity to me except to say that it was recovered a little west of the Tian Shan sample.

He also said he is using the Turkmenistan-IA sample in his investigation to make sure it was not a better proxy for the steppe admixture in Kurds than the Sarmatian and Saka samples. He said it worked some but he just could not get it to work as well as the a couple of the Sarmatian/Scythian samples. I guess he wants to cover all possible scenarios. I'm sure it will be an interesting study whenever they publish it.

[Zoro]

Google Scythian Ziwiye treasure found in Kurdish city Saqqez.

https://www.ancient-art.co.uk/scythian-gold-the-ziwiye-treasure/

You will see a lot Scythian golden objects found in Saqqez, like this:

https://i.postimg.cc/tgFtD4FP/ziwiye-hoard-c7281dde-c163-420c-abd1-bcbd8fa0de3-resize-750.jpg

That deer in the middle definitely looks like a Scythian gold stag https://www.google.com/search?q=scythian+deer&client=ubuntu&hs=oQR&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC2dnL57DoAhUJqZ4KHc2NCf0Q_AUoAXoECA4QA w&biw=1199&bih=838

Saqqez was the Saka administrative capital and some say it was named after Saka

[Chelubey]

Honestly I don’t understand you.
Major Kurdish ancestors were the Gutians/Medes. Kurds always say that they are from the West Iranian Medes. Kurds are also the West Iranian speakers.


I think Zoro means a little different :


Kurds and some Iranians have almost a 100% probability of being descended from Western Scythians.
The other surprise is Kurds have one of the highest probabilities from Indo-Iranians of being descended from Eastern Scythians in addition to Western Scythians.


Some linguists do not agree that the Kurdish language is a descendant of the Medes. They consider it a branch of the ancient Persian language.
By the way, some European Orientalists of 19th-century considered that all Iranian nomadic peoples(including Pashtuns) have partly Saka origin, unlike the Persians, who were sedentary people. I agree with them.

[TheOldNorth]

Tuvinians and English are also genetically partially Scythians

the english is stretching it, sure a couple Alan auxiliaries where stationed in Britannia but not only was it not enough to leave a genetic impact, but also most romans and auxiliaries fled Britain during the great turmoils leading to the downfall of the western roman empire

[Eline]

Some linguists do not agree that the Kurdish language is a descendant of the Medes. They consider it a branch of the ancient Persian language.
By the way, some European Orientalists of 19th-century considered that all Iranian nomadic peoples(including Pashtuns) have partly Saka origin, unlike the Persians, who were sedentary people. I agree with them.Kurdish is like the language of the Medes a Northwest Iranic language, while Persian belongs to a Southwest Iranic language. Although it is possible that Kurdish has some influences from Old Persian, Kurdish has been evolved from a different branch of Iranic, Northwestern branch.

https://i.postimg.cc/LXfs475c/parthians-medes.jpg


And yes, most East Iranic people in Central Asia have partly Scythian/Saka origin. Scythians themselves were East Iranic people. But there were also differences within Scythians. They were very diverse people. Some Scythians in the west of the Steppes had more 'European' tendencies, while Scythians in the east had more Turkic/Mongoloid/East Asiatic tendencies.

[Chelubey]

Scythians themselves were East Iranic people.


No, no, no, Scythians were Turkic people. I can not find normal explanations for the fact that Turkic people, who were not descendants of Scythians, preserveded Scythian traditions until the late Middle Ages, and Eastern Iranians did not have Scythian traditions from the earliest period of their existence. This is just weird.
Returning to Scythian mythology. Look how the Scythian pantheon of gods is logically explained through Turkic lexicon.
In Greek language there is no sound "B", so Greeks transmitted a foreign sound B usually through the letter/sound P.

1. Papay - is the supreme god of the Scythians.
Turkic "Babai" is an old man, an ancestor, a respectful appeal to an old man.
2. His wife was goddess Api.
Turkic Abi, Epi, Ebi - woman in labor, grandmother, respectful appeal to a woman.
It is Ideal semantic pair Papai (Babai) and Api (Abi).
Herodotus possibly confused the functions of Scythian goddesses: Api was patroness of hearth (the main goddess), and Tabiti was goddess of nature (air, earth, water).
3 . Tabiti is Scythian godness.
Tatar Tabighati - nature(air, earth, water), in other languages ​​(such as Turkish) this word should sound like Tabi'ati.
Herodotus also noted that the Scythians worshiped the god of war in the form of a sword drived in a pile of brushwood. Ammianus Marcellinus notes that the Huns worship the god of war - a sword drived in a ground.
Kurds do not have such similarities besides strange two-component graphs.

[SharpFork]

No, no, no, Scythians were Turkic people. I can not find normal explanations for the fact that Turkic people, who were not descendants of Scythians, preserveded Scythian traditions until the late Middle Ages, and Eastern Iranians did not have Scythian traditions from the earliest period of their existence. This is just weird.
Lifestyle differences, plus there is a heck of a lot of discontinuity in many of the practices of the Kushans, Sakas, Sarmatians and Scythians and later nomads, but there is also continutiy as well, it shouldn't be surprising considering the genetics of both groups.

[Raizen]

No, no, no, Scythians were Turkic people.
Early Turkic people were genetically and needless to say also culturally very similar to Eastern Scythians. It is pretty clear Turkic people are mostly descended from Eastern Scythians, no matter if they spoke Iranic or not.

[Eline]

Everything is possible. But Scythians were diverse. People in Central Asia, like Turks, Uzbeks, Afghans, Tajiks have mostly Mongoloid Eastern Scythian blood, as you can see in the OP fist post. Foreign blood in Kurds comes mostly from the Western Scythians, although there is some Eastern also.

[Eline]

True modern descedants of the Scytians are the Northeast Iranian Ossetians, because the Ossetians actally do speak the language of the Scythians as their native language. And the Ossetians are genetically related to ths Persians and Kurds.

[Zoro]

..............

[Chelubey]

..............

I can give an argument that convinced me that the Scythians were Turkic people.
This is a well-known argument that, for unknown reasons, is ignored by scientists.
Herodotus describes a Scythian legend according to which the sons of slaves(caring for horses) blinded by the masters, rebel and then marry the daughters of noble masters.
https://books.google.ru/books?id=EjVDadjzg-4C&pg=PA289&dq=sons+of+the+blind+herodoutus&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjglOCC7bvqAhUlxqYKHSNpApcQ6AEwAHoECAAQA g#v=onepage&q=sons%20of%20the%20blind%20herodoutus&f=false

This legend completely repeats the storyline of the common Turkic epos Koroglu ( translates as the "Son of blind man"), where the main character Ali, the son of a blinded stableman
, revolts, after the uprising he and his comrades-in-arms marry the daughters of noble masters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Koroghlu

Many legends of different nations are conceptually similar, but these two legends are not similar conceptually, but in detail.
The sons of the blinded stablemen slaves rebel and marry the daughters of noble masters. This cannot be just a coincidence.
Undoubtedly, the Herodotian Scythian epos about the sons of the blind is just an early version of the Turkic Epos of Koroglu.

[VikLevaPatel]

Kurdish admixture calculator
10 global populations Kurdish Admix Calculator

https://archive.is/6L0Qk/401a12cfb176734cf41e5a1b60f0efe76eafde3f.png
https://ibb.co/v4xfGPs

Kurdish admixture calculator Oracle

https://www.yourdnaportal.com/nmonte3/KurdishK10

Your nMonte3 oracle results
nMonte3 calculator by Ger Huijbregts

Kurdish admixture calculator
Calculator model by Dilawer Khan, EurasianDNA.com

Closest population distances
Population Distance
Punjabi 1.66663
Sindhi 1.888141
Burusho 2.075716
Bengali 2.095318
Pathan 2.854701
Kalash 3.607054
Pashtun_Afghan 4.170661
Kharia 4.500766


If your raw data file is lacking certain SNPs, due to a no call from your test or because your test provider does not cover those SNPs, (they do not record your entire genome, only relevant markers for their algorithms) you may find some of your ancestry calculations are skewed.

Natural barriers, like mountains, the Alps in Europe, deserts like the Sahara in Africa and oceans have also created genetic barriers, (some more impenetrable than others) defining human population genetics across the world. The building of ships and seafaring changed migratory patterns. There is some evidence that suggests Neanderthal used boats. Much migration was done by early humans using a coastal trajectory, as the sea was a source of food like shellfish.
https://www.yourdnaportal.com/gadata/KurdishK10