Genetica d'Italia [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Rocinante

03-19-2020, 09:37 AM

Questo thread si concentra sulla discussione, condivisione di idee e informazioni sulla varietà genetica dell'Italia.

This thread is focused on discussing, sharing ideas and information about the genetic variety of Italy.

Rocinante

03-19-2020, 09:42 AM

Target: Italian_Abruzzo
Distance: 0.5697% / 0.00569719
34.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
14.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
13.4 CZE_N
12.4 HUN_Koros_N
12.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
6.2 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.2 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N
1.8 MAR_EN
1.6 Yamnaya_BGR
0.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.2 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o

Target: Italian_Aosta_Valley
Distance: 0.7682% / 0.00768191
42.8 CZE_N
21.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
15.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
8.4 Yamnaya_BGR
4.6 HRV_Impressa_N
4.0 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
2.0 SRB_Starcevo_N
1.6 MAR_EN
0.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Apulia
Distance: 0.6948% / 0.00694815
34.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
15.0 Yamnaya_BGR
11.6 HUN_Koros_N
10.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
6.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
6.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
5.2 CZE_N
4.4 MKD_N
2.2 BGR_Krepost_N
1.8 MAR_EN
0.8 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Basilicata
Distance: 0.6068% / 0.00606751
35.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
11.0 Yamnaya_BGR
9.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia
7.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
6.4 GRC_N
5.6 HUN_Koros_N
5.6 SRB_Starcevo_N
5.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
5.0 MKD_N
4.8 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
2.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.4 MAR_EN
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.2 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o

Target: Italian_Bergamo
Distance: 0.7739% / 0.00773900
35.6 SRB_Starcevo_N
17.2 CZE_N
11.8 Yamnaya_BGR
11.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
8.6 Yamnaya_UKR
7.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
5.6 England_N
1.6 MAR_EN
1.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 0.7085% / 0.00708531
39.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
11.2 BGR_Krepost_N
8.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
7.4 Yamnaya_BGR
6.0 MKD_N
5.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
5.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia
4.4 Anatolia_Kumtepe_N
4.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
2.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
2.2 HUN_Koros_N
1.8 MAR_EN
1.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 0.6857% / 0.00685726
38.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
15.2 HUN_Koros_N
11.8 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
9.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
8.8 CZE_N
7.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
4.0 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o
2.0 MAR_EN
1.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.4 Yamnaya_BGR

Target: Italian_Lazio
Distance: 0.7040% / 0.00704035
22.2 SRB_Starcevo_N
20.8 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
17.8 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
14.8 CZE_N
7.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
6.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
5.0 GRC_N
2.2 MAR_EN
1.8 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o
1.0 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
0.4 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N

Target: Italian_Liguria
Distance: 1.2465% / 0.01246521
28.6 CZE_N
28.0 Yamnaya_BGR
18.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
9.2 SRB_Starcevo_N
5.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
4.8 HRV_Impressa_N
3.2 Iberia_N
2.8 MAR_EN

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 0.9684% / 0.00968396
43.2 CZE_N
21.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
16.0 Yamnaya_BGR
8.2 SRB_Starcevo_N
4.0 Iberia_N
3.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
2.2 MAR_EN
1.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Marche
Distance: 0.7042% / 0.00704179
30.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
25.4 CZE_N
13.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
12.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
9.0 Yamnaya_BGR
3.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
3.0 SRB_Starcevo_N
1.6 MAR_EN
1.0 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.6 MKD_N
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Molise
Distance: 0.6321% / 0.00632110
30.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
19.0 Yamnaya_BGR
9.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
8.6 MKD_N
8.2 GRC_N
7.2 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N
6.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
5.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.2 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
2.0 Yamnaya_UKR
0.8 HUN_Koros_N
0.6 MAR_EN

Target: Italian_Northeast
Distance: 0.8666% / 0.00866636
32.6 SRB_Starcevo_N
18.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia
16.2 Yamnaya_BGR
8.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
7.0 ROU_N
5.2 POL_BKG_N
4.6 CZE_N
3.2 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
1.6 Yamnaya_UKR
1.4 MAR_EN
1.0 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 0.6470% / 0.00647041
26.4 CZE_N
20.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
15.2 SRB_Starcevo_N
13.0 Yamnaya_BGR
12.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
2.0 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N
1.8 MAR_EN
0.6 England_N
0.6 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
0.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.4 Yamnaya_UKR

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 0.6629% / 0.00662894
30.8 CZE_N
17.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
14.6 SRB_Starcevo_N
13.0 Yamnaya_BGR
9.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
6.2 MKD_N
4.0 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
1.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
1.2 MAR_EN
1.2 POL_BKG_N
0.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia
0.4 Iberia_N

Target: Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 0.5632% / 0.00563198
20.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
19.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
18.2 CZE_N
13.8 SRB_Starcevo_N
6.4 Yamnaya_BGR
5.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
4.8 England_N
3.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.8 HRV_Impressa_N
1.6 IRN_Wezmeh_N
1.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.0 MKD_N
1.0 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o
0.8 MAR_EN

Target: Italian_Umbria
Distance: 0.5572% / 0.00557175
22.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
18.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
15.6 CZE_N
9.0 HRV_Impressa_N
6.4 ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N
6.2 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o
4.8 MKD_N
4.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
3.6 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N
3.2 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
2.4 Yamnaya_BGR
2.2 MAR_EN
1.8 SRB_Starcevo_N
0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.2 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N

Target: Italian_Veneto
Distance: 0.6529% / 0.00652945
23.2 SRB_Starcevo_N
20.6 CZE_N
15.4 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
10.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia
8.8 Yamnaya_BGR
5.4 MKD_N
4.2 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
3.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
3.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
3.4 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N
1.4 MAR_EN
0.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
0.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 0.8141% / 0.00814115
58.4 ITA_Sardinia_N
14.6 GRC_Peloponnese_N
9.6 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N
7.4 Iberia_N
3.8 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.8 MAR_EN

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 0.7568% / 0.00756765
40.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
18.4 Yamnaya_BGR
14.0 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
11.4 CZE_N
7.2 Anatolia_Kumtepe_N
4.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.6 MAR_EN

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 0.7246% / 0.00724618
28.0 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
25.2 CZE_N
20.0 Yamnaya_BGR
9.8 Yamnaya_KAZ_Mereke
8.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
3.6 MAR_EN
2.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.6 ROU_Iron_Gates_N
0.6 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
0.6 Yamnaya_UKR

Samnium

03-19-2020, 09:51 AM

I will post there gedmatch/autosomal results that I found recently, most of them are quite "unique" (in a sense that they come mostly from region with not many samples) :

Emilia Romagna/Lombardy mix

# Population Percent

1 North_Atlantic 33.05

2 West_Med 24.75

3 East_Med 19.21

4 Baltic 10.86

5 West_Asian 7.68

6 Red_Sea 2.7

7 East_Asian 1.24

8 Oceanian 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 North_Italian 2.23

2 Tuscan 7.3

3 Spanish_Extremadura 8.34

4 Portuguese 8.46

5 Spanish_Andalucia 9.08

6 Spanish_Murcia 9.15

7 Spanish_Valencia 9.6

8 Spanish_Galicia 9.9

9 Spanish_Cataluna 10.01

10 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.39

11 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 10.86

12 Spanish_Cantabria 12.78

13 Spanish_Aragon 13.52

14 French 13.82

15 West_Sicilian 14.1

16 Italian_Abruzzo 14.25

17 Southwest_French 14.49

18 Greek_Thessaly 15.12

19 Romanian 16.24

20 Bulgarian 16.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 64.6% Spanish_Cataluna + 35.4% Central_Greek @ 1.45

2 58.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 41.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.67

3 66.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 33.5% South_Italian @ 1.69

4 77.3% Spanish_Cataluna + 22.7% Cyprian @ 1.73

5 58.2% Tuscan + 41.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.76

6 60% Spanish_Valencia + 40% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.77

7 65.3% Spanish_Cataluna + 34.7% East_Sicilian @ 1.89

8 52.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 47.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2

9 50.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 49.6% Southwest_French @ 2

10 65.8% Spanish_Valencia + 34.2% Central_Greek @ 2

11 90.2% North_Italian + 9.8% Spanish_Murcia @ 2

12 96.7% North_Italian + 3.3% West_Scottish @ 2.02

13 96.5% North_Italian + 3.5% Southwest_English @ 2.03

14 96.8% North_Italian + 3.2% Irish @ 2.03

15 91.6% North_Italian + 8.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.04

16 94% North_Italian + 6% French @ 2.05

17 96.6% North_Italian + 3.4% Southeast_English @ 2.05

18 96.9% North_Italian + 3.1% Orcadian @ 2.06

19 58.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 41.3% West_Sicilian @ 2.06

20 99.2% North_Italian + 0.8% Dai @ 2.07

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQ1CvgPYls

Campania (Caserta)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayC5xAAdHcc

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.82
2 North_Atlantic 24
3 West_Med 21.58
4 West_Asian 13.19
5 Baltic 6.26
6 Red_Sea 5.77
7 Oceanian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 3.6
2 West_Sicilian 4.02
3 Tuscan 7.2
4 South_Italian 7.21
5 East_Sicilian 7.29
6 Central_Greek 7.5
7 Ashkenazi 10.58
8 Greek_Thessaly 10.65
9 Sephardic_Jewish 11.41
10 Italian_Jewish 11.87
11 Algerian_Jewish 13.22
12 North_Italian 13.55
13 Tunisian_Jewish 16.2
14 Libyan_Jewish 16.93
15 Bulgarian 18.26
16 Romanian 19.44
17 Cyprian 20.43
18 Spanish_Extremadura 20.72
19 Portuguese 21.2
20 Spanish_Andalucia 21.4

MyHeritage results for what it's worth :

Italian 59,7%
Iberian 5,9%
Greek and South Italian 4,0%
North and West European 3,9%
Irish, Scottish and Welsh 1,7%
West Asia 16,0%
Middle East 8,8%

Veneto

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 North_Atlantic 29.04

2 West_Med 24.26

3 Baltic 15.96

4 East_Med 14.30

5 West_Asian 13.85

Using 1 population approximation:

1 North_Italian @ 10.309572

2 Romanian @ 13.007937

3 Tuscan @ 13.529220

4 Bulgarian @ 14.075195

5 Serbian @ 15.112546

6 Greek_Thessaly @ 15.835256

7 Portuguese @ 15.960762

8 Spanish_Extremadura @ 16.102398

9 Spanish_Galicia @ 16.549561

10 Spanish_Andalucia @ 16.983130

11 Spanish_Cataluna @ 16.992086

12 Italian_Abruzzo @ 17.515720

13 French @ 17.592390

14 Spanish_Murcia @ 17.720076

15 Spanish_Valencia @ 17.854183

16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 17.951416

17 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 18.476231

18 West_Sicilian @ 19.246962

19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 19.390762

20 Southwest_French @ 20.245195

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRakI3zoHkU

Half Tuscan/Half Sicilian

Eurogenes K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

East_Med 27.44%
West_Med 23.01%
North_Atlantic 17.99%
West_Asian 12.18%
Baltic 11.32%
Red_Sea 4.89%
South_Asian 0.89%
Sub-Saharan 0.83%
Northeast_African 0.76%
Oceanian 0.68%

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 3.99
2 East_Sicilian 4.14
3 West_Sicilian 4.61
4 Greek_Thessaly 5.63
5 Italian_Abruzzo 5.73
6 South_Italian 6.72
7 Ashkenazi 8.2
8 Tuscan 9.03
9 Algerian_Jewish 12.28
10 Italian_Jewish 12.68
11 Sephardic_Jewish 12.83

Eurogenes K36 results:

Italian 26,64%
East Mediterranean 13,12%
Iberian 11,84%
Near Eastern (Middle East + West Asia) 10,14%
West Mediterranean 6,02%
East Balkan 5,87%
Armenian 4,55%
West Caucasian 3,97%
North African 3,11%
North Sea 2,89%
French 2,78%
North Caucasia 2,49%
Volga-Ural 2,23%
Basque 1,28%
Eastern Euro 0,98%
Arabian 0,95%
Eastern Central Euro 0,91%
North Atlantic 0,17%
Oceanian 0,06%

Italian Alpine (Vale Seriana)

Eurogenes K13

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 65.5% Central_Greek + 34.5% French_Basque @ 4.33

2 92.5% North_Italian + 7.5% Abhkasian @ 4.6

3 92.3% North_Italian + 7.7% Georgian @ 4.7

4 54.3% Central_Greek + 45.7% Southwest_French @ 4.75

5 51.8% South_Italian + 48.2% Southwest_French @ 4.76

6 91.6% North_Italian + 8.4% Armenian @ 4.81

7 91.8% North_Italian + 8.2% Balkar @ 4.84

8 92.2% North_Italian + 7.8% Ossetian @ 4.85

9 55.1% Spanish_Andalucia + 44.9% Central_Greek @ 4.93

10 92.6% North_Italian + 7.4% North_Ossetian @ 4.95

11 92.4% North_Italian + 7.6% Adygei @ 4.96

12 92.4% North_Italian + 7.6% Kabardin @ 5.02

13 90.6% North_Italian + 9.4% Turkish @ 5.05

14 92.6% North_Italian + 7.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.09

15 63.7% Southwest_French + 36.3% Cyprian @ 5.09

16 92.3% North_Italian + 7.7% Kumyk @ 5.09

17 83.7% North_Italian + 16.3% South_Italian @ 5.11

18 52.4% Central_Greek + 47.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.14

19 82.6% North_Italian + 17.4% Central_Greek @ 5.14

20 92.7% North_Italian + 7.3% Assyrian @ 5.15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-HQ9x0kV2M

Italian Alpine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL4WqLE_DaM

My Gedmatch Genesis EUtest Admixture Proportions:
Single Population Sharing:
1 North_Italian 5.47
2 Tuscan 6.54
3 PT 9.6
4 ES 11.01
5 FR 12.68
6 RO 17.35
7 Serbian 18.04
8 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 18.32
9 AT 18.34
10 West_&_Central_German 20.42
11 GR 20.48
12 AJ 20.62
13 NL 21.07
14 HU 21.12
15 Cornish 21.31
16 English 21.58
17 Orcadian 24.07
18 French_Basque 24.23
19 IE 24.3
20 DK 24.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 69.4% Tuscan + 30.6% FR @ 3.79
2 68% Tuscan + 32% ES @ 4.52
3 81.6% Tuscan + 18.4% Cornish @ 4.55
4 81.9% Tuscan + 18.1% English @ 4.58
5 64.5% Tuscan + 35.5% PT @ 4.62
6 81.8% Tuscan + 18.2% NL @ 4.69
7 84.1% Tuscan + 15.9% French_Basque @ 4.77
8 84.2% Tuscan + 15.8% Orcadian @ 4.81
9 84.3% Tuscan + 15.7% IE @ 4.82
10 63.2% North_Italian + 36.8% Tuscan @ 4.83
11 85.1% Tuscan + 14.9% Scottish @ 4.86
12 82% Tuscan + 18% West_&_Central_German @ 4.88
13 85% Tuscan + 15% DK @ 4.91
14 86% Tuscan + 14% NO @ 4.94
15 86.3% Tuscan + 13.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 4.97
16 96.6% North_Italian + 3.4% Sardinian @ 5.34
17 88.6% Tuscan + 11.4% North_Swedish @ 5.36
18 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% PT @ 5.37
19 92.1% North_Italian + 7.9% FR @ 5.38
20 96.1% North_Italian + 3.9% English @ 5.4

trebil

03-19-2020, 10:20 AM

Rocinante

03-19-2020, 10:27 AM

He is not fully Emilian, he is Emilian and Lombard.

She told to be 50% French and 50% Sicilian, not Half Tuscan/Half Sicilian.

Do you have G25?

trebil

03-19-2020, 10:30 AM

Do you have G25?

Mine? Nope.

Samnium

03-19-2020, 10:34 AM

He is not fully Emilian, he is Emilian and Lombard.

Thanks, I will correct it.

She told to be 50% French and 50% Sicilian, not Half Tuscan/Half Sicilian.

I put a wrong link, I would take away it. (it was another video)

Samnium

03-19-2020, 10:34 AM

trebil

03-19-2020, 10:43 AM

Thanks, I will correct it.

I put a wrong link, I would take away it. (it was another video)

generally speaking people can claim what they want and can also declare things untrue in good faith. I would never take these results too seriously.

Samnium

03-19-2020, 10:58 AM

generally speaking people can claim what they want and can also declare things untrue in good faith. I would never take these results too seriously.

It’s true but at this point better than nothing. I take the risk, I definitely think that most people don’t lie about that, they aren’t anthrotards.

I have professional studies that I can post here by the way.

trebil

03-19-2020, 10:59 AM

It’s true but at this point better than nothing.

I have professional studies that I can post here by the way.

Ok, we know all those studies, you wouldn't say anything new

Samnium

03-19-2020, 11:02 AM

Ok, we know all those studies, you wouldn't say anything new

I have very local studies about Calabrian genetics/population that I posted on others threads, not known at all.

I’m not talking about Fiorito et al. etc.

kaltar

03-19-2020, 11:31 AM

Target: Italian_Abruzzo
Distance: 0.5698% / 0.00569788
62.2 FARMER
28.6 YAMNAYA
6.2 IRN_Wezmeh_N
1.8 MAR_EN
0.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Aosta_Valley
Distance: 0.7682% / 0.00768183
49.4 FARMER
44.8 YAMNAYA
4.0 WHG
1.6 MAR_EN
0.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Apulia
Distance: 0.6948% / 0.00694850
57.8 FARMER
32.4 YAMNAYA
6.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
1.8 MAR_EN
0.8 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Basilicata
Distance: 0.6068% / 0.00606761
57.8 FARMER
30.4 YAMNAYA
7.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.8 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.4 MAR_EN
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Bergamo
Distance: 0.7783% / 0.00778290
58.2 FARMER
38.8 YAMNAYA
1.6 MAR_EN
1.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 0.7085% / 0.00708531
63.2 FARMER
25.0 YAMNAYA
5.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.8 MAR_EN
1.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 0.6857% / 0.00685721
62.4 FARMER
26.6 YAMNAYA
7.6 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.0 MAR_EN
1.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N

Target: Italian_Lazio
Distance: 0.7040% / 0.00704040
63.0 FARMER
27.0 YAMNAYA
6.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.2 MAR_EN
1.0 WHG

Target: Italian_Liguria
Distance: 1.2465% / 0.01246521
46.2 YAMNAYA
45.8 FARMER
5.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
2.8 MAR_EN

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 0.9684% / 0.00968396
55.4 FARMER
40.6 YAMNAYA
2.2 MAR_EN
1.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Marche
Distance: 0.7042% / 0.00704179
59.2 FARMER
34.6 YAMNAYA
3.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
1.6 MAR_EN
1.0 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Molise
Distance: 0.6321% / 0.00632110
55.0 FARMER
36.4 YAMNAYA
5.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.2 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
0.6 MAR_EN

Target: Italian_Northeast
Distance: 0.8706% / 0.00870600
50.8 FARMER
43.8 YAMNAYA
2.4 WHG
1.4 MAR_EN
1.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 0.6468% / 0.00646812
56.8 FARMER
39.8 YAMNAYA
1.8 MAR_EN
0.8 WHG
0.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 0.6629% / 0.00662894
53.2 FARMER
40.0 YAMNAYA
4.0 WHG
1.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
1.2 MAR_EN

Target: Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 0.5656% / 0.00565646
60.0 FARMER
35.6 YAMNAYA
1.8 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.6 IRN_Wezmeh_N
0.8 MAR_EN
0.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Umbria
Distance: 0.5572% / 0.00557175
59.4 FARMER
33.8 YAMNAYA
4.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.2 MAR_EN
0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.2 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N

Target: Italian_Veneto
Distance: 0.6529% / 0.00652945
56.0 FARMER
37.8 YAMNAYA
4.2 WHG
1.4 MAR_EN
0.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
0.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 0.8141% / 0.00814115
90.0 FARMER
3.8 YAMNAYA
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.8 MAR_EN

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 0.7568% / 0.00756765
59.2 FARMER
32.4 YAMNAYA
4.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
2.4 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.6 MAR_EN

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 0.7246% / 0.00724618
53.2 FARMER
31.0 YAMNAYA
8.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N
3.6 MAR_EN
2.6 KEN_Early_Pastoral_N
1.6 WHG

Is this model based on unscaled or scaled G25?

kaltar

03-19-2020, 11:43 AM

Celtíbero Itálico, there is something wrong both in your model and in your results, are you mixing by chance unscaled and scaled samples?

Rocinante

03-19-2020, 12:00 PM

Is this model based on unscaled or scaled G25?

No, the model was right, but i edited it because there was a mesolithic england sample that was giving strange results to northern europeans by giving them very low WHG related ancestry, now is good.

Is unscaled, look at the distances now.

kaltar

03-19-2020, 12:39 PM

No, the model was right, but i edited it because there was a mesolithic england sample that was giving strange results to northern europeans by giving them very low WHG related ancestry, now is good.

Is unscaled, look at the distances now.

The results in your model for Italians are unreliable. The peak of EEF farmer ancestry according to your model is in Italian Jews, while actually it is in northern Italians. Yamnaya is often inflated (just few examples: Sicilians East with 41.2% Yamnaya at 0.25, Italian_Aosta_Valley over 56%!). Very unlikely this big difference between Abruzzo and Molise.

Distances do not prove the correctness of a model. There is a reason why most models are based on scaled samples. The problems may also be due to the lack of accuracy of the G25 unscaled datasheets.

Some of them are not even real ancestral components, like KEN_Pastoral_N.

https://i.imgur.com/clEwHN6.png

https://i.imgur.com/yT79GTx.png

kaltar

03-19-2020, 12:44 PM

Problems also with Greek samples if one uses your model. Greek_Thrace with 57.8% Yamnaya! C'mon.

https://i.imgur.com/vSz8ApH.png

Rocinante

03-19-2020, 12:46 PM

Problems also with Greek samples if one uses your model. Greek_Thrace with 57.8% Yamnaya! C'mon.

https://i.imgur.com/vSz8ApH.png

Yeah i know, i'm realizing it has some problems, spanish references are getting weird results too. I will make a new one, but scaled.

kaltar

03-19-2020, 12:50 PM

And problems as well as many Spanish averages.

Spanish_Asturias, Spanish_Barcelones, Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Andalucia with more than 50% of Yamnaya!

These results are not at all plausible.

https://i.imgur.com/ig58yXJ.png

https://i.imgur.com/vHF5Yja.png

Token

03-19-2020, 12:51 PM

Middle Bronze Age North Italian sample:

https://i.imgur.com/dmF1fEY.png

kaltar

03-19-2020, 12:53 PM

Samnium

03-19-2020, 04:50 PM

Color-blindness in Calabria (Southern Italy): A north-south decreasing trend

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11534000

"The three Calabrian provinces, with the exception of the ethnic minorities, show a decreasing trend in the frequency of CB from north to south (Fig. 2): CS, 6.23%; CZ, 4.65%; RC, 3.43%, (x2 4 32.5; P < 0.0005; df 2). The frequencies also differ significantly between CS and CZ (x2 4 9.44; P < 0.005; df 1) and CS and RC (x2 4 28.913; P < 0.0005; df 1); there is a significant difference betweenCZandRCprovinces(x2 4 5.435;P< 0.001; df 1).

[...] Cosenza province also shows some other peculiarities regarding genetic markers.Tagarelli et al. (1991a) showed an opposite trend for glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency in respect to that of CB. The mean frequency of this deficiency has a maximal value on the Ionian coast (1.92%) and a minimal value on Tyrrhenian coast (0.93%), passing through the internal area (1.67%). This trend may be explained by historical and environmental factors. All other areas with higher G6PD deficiency frequencies are those areas where, during the VIIIth to Vth centuries BC, the Greeks (people who brought the more common G6PD genotype Mediterranean G6PD into Calabria) made their more populous settlements. These areas are also the same where malaria was endemic in the past (Tagarelli et al., 1997), and where another inherited disorder, the thalassemias (Brancati and Tagarelli, 1982), are present. Filosa et al. (1993) showed a linkage disequilibrium between the G6PD deficiency locus with that for CB within a Tyrrhenian sample from Cosenza province. Another trend was demonstrated by Tagarelli et al. (1991b) for the phosphoglucomutase 1 locus (PGM1). There was an increase in the trend from the Ionian coast towards that Tyrrhenian coast for the PGM1*1S allele,and a decrease in the same direction for the PGM1*2S allele. There was no trend for the Gm polymorphism (De Benedictis et al., 1986) as for other Calabrian polymorphisms (Piazza et al., 1989).
[…]
Furthermore, the precarious economic status and the geographical peculiarities of the territory did not allow communication between the three Calabrian provinces until the beginning of this century. Until this period, there was only one road, the state road “S.S.19” which follows the ancient “Via Popilia,” built for military reasons following the occupation by the Romans. Improvement of the roads during the period following World War II allowed better communication between Cosenza, Catanzaro, and Reggio Calabria. But, when the towns along the Tyrrhenian and Ionian coasts improved their communications with other towns, those in the internal region were again isolated. "

X-chromosome SNP analyses in 11 human Mediterranean populations show a high overall genetic homogeneity except in North-west Africans
(Moroccans)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2315647/

In Figure 1a (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-75#Fig1), the first two axes accounted for 39% of the total variability (first axis: 25%, second axis: 14%). Thus, the Mediterranean populations are quite homogeneous. Equivalently to the results of the AMOVA analysis, the Moroccan population was considerably displaced in the first axis, and the Majorcans were placed in the opposite direction. In the second axis, the differentiation was less, but it is interesting that the Cosenza and Ibiza populations were located opposite to their neighbouring populations (i.e. Catanzaro and Valencia, respectively).

https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-8-75/MediaObjects/12862_2007_Article_644_Fig1_HTML.jpg
(Cosenza is CSZ, Reggio is RCA)

As we have commented above, relative high genetic distances between neighbouring populations were found between Cosenza and (1) Catanzaro and (2) Reggio di Calabria and between Ibiza and (1) Majorca and (2) Valencia. The results support the hypothesis that the genetic differentiation of the Ibiza and Cosenza populations is a result of their particular demographic histories [15 (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-75#ref-CR15), 16 (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-75#ref-CR16), 23 (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-75#ref-CR23)]. The Moroccan population showed a high level of differentiation in relation to the other populations, even to those that are geographically close to Morocco (Western side of the Mediterranean basin).

[...]

Tagarelli et al [16 (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-75#ref-CR16)] described the Calabria province as a collection of many "human genetic isolates". In contrast to Catanzaro and Reggio di Calabria, Cosenza did not suffer destructive telluric events that would have modified its population structure. So, the population heterogeneity inside Cosenza is more patent than in any of the other two populations. This is reflected by the heterogenic distribution of various genetic markers at the coast compared to the internal areas [16 (https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-75#ref-CR16)]. The results obtained with the 25 X-chromosome markers were in agreement with the previous studies. Cosenza showed not just a relatively high genetic differentiation compared to the populations from Catanzaro and Reggio di Calabria but also a certain displacement in relation to other Mediterranean populations.

[...]

Moreover, when a parametric multilocus association analysis was performed, significant values of associations were only observed in the Ibiza and Cosenza populations."

SharpFork

03-19-2020, 08:16 PM

Try this, using scale coordinates:

ENF:Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG,0.113823,0.166547,0.0297 93,-0.082688,0.070782,-0.04016,-0.005875,0.001846,0.04745,0.079637,0.006008,0.0091 42,-0.021407,-0.009358,-0.042073,-0.003713,0.0442,-0.002787,0.008045,-0.001251,-0.013851,0.003339,-0.003451,-0.009278,-0.005628
ENF:Anatolia_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312 ,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
ENF:HRV_Cardial_N,0.1233083,0.185165,0.0110623,-0.1009917,0.058575,-0.0501073,-0.0092437,-0.0053843,0.0513353,0.0925153,0.009202,0.016685,-0.026214,0.001055,-0.0417113,-0.017281,0.0122127,0.0006757,0.0111033,-0.0136317,-0.012478,0.005894,-0.0049713,-0.0110053,-0.008143
ENF:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N,0.1222458,0.1842168,0. 0082966,-0.0902462,0.0553334,-0.044957,-0.0058282,-0.0081228,0.0436042,0.0857604,0.0063658,0.0136678,-0.0239346,-0.0047618,-0.0360746,-0.0112964,0.0194534,0.0015456,0.0086482,-0.0130314,-0.012827,0.0041546,-0.002465,-0.0036872,-0.0021554

WHG:I1875,0.130897,0.120848,0.191577,0.194447,0.15 9107,0.048248,0.015746,0.040152,0.087332,0.007472,-0.016076,-0.015436,0.017839,-0.003303,0.047909,0.047069,0.007302,0.018497,-0.003268,0.057027,0.087471,0.00915,-0.048436,-0.143153,0.01449
WHG:Rochedane,0.118376,0.111708,0.178001,0.184111, 0.150182,0.044623,0.010575,0.034383,0.090809,0.028 064,-0.014615,-0.016186,0.013974,-0.002752,0.058767,0.069344,0.002738,0.014189,-0.015335,0.054151,0.101446,0.013231,-0.050778,-0.178579,0.019519
WHG:ITA_Villabruna,0.121791,0.114755,0.18592,0.184 111,0.156337,0.060798,0.020211,0.035998,0.092445,0 .018041,-0.016239,-0.016186,0.016947,-0.010046,0.054017,0.067356,0.000782,0.005448,-0.008422,0.053526,0.100073,0.010758,-0.048313,-0.163517,0.01928
WHG:Iberia_Northwest_Meso,0.118376,0.088351,0.1621 62,0.17216,0.141565,0.0502,0.007285,0.035075,0.100 626,0.012392,-0.012017,-0.009292,0.022745,-0.00523,0.060531,0.056218,-0.021253,0.012415,-0.007919,0.085291,0.139254,0.024483,-0.068526,-0.254614,0.027662
WHG:WHG:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.112 0467,0.2008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.016 0593,0.0412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
WHG:England_Mesolithic,0.126344,0.110693,0.202891, 0.197031,0.157876,0.055778,0.010575,0.03346,0.0865 14,0.016583,-0.017863,-0.01139,0.014866,-0.001651,0.061481,0.065499,0.002477,0.009882,-0.005531,0.06353,0.116295,0.019661,-0.055954,-0.179664,0.019399
WHG:Wales_Meso,0.1160995,0.1157705,0.187806,0.1954 16,0.1629535,0.0642845,0.0243235,0.030691,0.091524 5,0.010023,-0.020055,-0.0059945,0.0049805,-0.0015825,0.061617,0.0646375,-0.001043,0.010135,-0.0043995,0.0596535,0.1056885,0.0183625,-0.047327,-0.175386,0.017783
WHG:BEL_Loschbour:I0001,0.133173,0.106631,0.20176, 0.192186,0.164338,0.055778,0.00611,0.036922,0.0965 35,0.02278,-0.020786,-0.016186,0.024975,-0.007432,0.065824,0.063643,0.008084,0.006714,-0.013324,0.065281,0.120038,0.019166,-0.059405,-0.175687,0.022992

WHG:Baltic_LVA_HG,0.1292603,0.1004104,0.1802636,0. 1972329,0.1064236,0.0560919,0.0083574,0.0207106,0. 0524476,-0.0261394,-0.0046788,-0.0181151,0.0281434,-0.0053759,0.0355759,0.0480141,0.003072,0.0040856,-0.0059236,0.042325,0.0613526,0.0130531,-0.0262979,-0.1110549,0.0095949
WHG:NOR_N_HG,0.129758,0.075149,0.156882,0.189602,0 .053548,0.066655,-0.00047,0.006,0.022702,-0.054489,0.007632,-0.018583,0.031962,-0.024222,0.026058,0.044152,0.002217,0.00114,-0.002011,0.03039,0.024956,0.010016,-0.008997,-0.060852,0.005508
WHG:ROU_Iron_Gates_HG,0.1303272,0.1157702,0.174983 8,0.176036,0.1194838,0.0578,0.0108102,0.0302295,0. 056551,-0.0113898,-0.0038565,-0.0196325,0.024492,-0.004335,0.0332178,0.048594,0.0074645,0.0086782,-0.0058763,0.0448655,0.0666322,0.0105105,-0.0249885,-0.112064,0.0100292
WHG:SRB_Iron_Gates_HG,0.1305661,0.1170479,0.182173 6,0.179266,0.1313397,0.0553463,0.0143661,0.0327084 ,0.0650782,-0.010023,-0.0091618,-0.0172588,0.025608,-0.0001331,0.0333084,0.048361,0.0045466,0.0058194,-0.0069012,0.0482893,0.0749404,0.0111487,-0.0339606,-0.1222246,0.0112834
WHG:SWE_Motala_HG,0.13249,0.0895696,0.1651034,0.18 7341,0.0864774,0.0551646,-0.00235,0.008538,0.0376324,-0.0389258,0.0016562,-0.0187034,0.0310404,-0.0173406,0.0315686,0.049297,0.005763,0.0024324,-0.006335,0.039744,0.0507604,0.014418,-0.022086,-0.0977008,0.0070412
WHG:Baltic_LTU_Meso,0.134311,0.108662,0.181395,0.1 86695,0.136949,0.061077,0.010575,0.034383,0.071174 ,-0.007472,-0.013153,-0.016935,0.029286,0.000138,0.039495,0.060063,0.005 215,0.001267,-0.00352,0.048523,0.072248,0.013231,-0.036235,-0.136525,0.012574
WHG:NOR_Meso,0.1257745,0.0766725,0.1551855,0.19089 4,0.0475475,0.0631685,-0.0024675,0.0038075,0.0193275,-0.051755,0.009987,-0.016635,0.02438,-0.0319285,0.0215115,0.0374565,-0.001956,0.0046875,-0.009867,0.026513,0.022398,0.0172495,-0.00721,-0.057779,0.003293
WHG:SWE_Meso,0.1331727,0.0937673,0.1669387,0.18712 57,0.084426,0.0605193,0.00329,0.012384,0.0395413,-0.043433,-0.0018403,-0.0187833,0.0286917,-0.0156893,0.0352873,0.039998,-0.0018253,0.001436,-0.0061593,0.0451467,0.0465843,0.017064,-0.020911,-0.0959977,0.00467
WHG:UKR_Meso,0.1231564,0.0820548,0.1424008,0.18960 2,0.0454236,0.0528776,-9.4e-05,0.0047996,0.016812,-0.0585344,0.0086066,-0.017924,0.0319918,-0.020203,0.023751,0.0341814,0.005111,-0.0016468,-0.0044496,0.029139,0.0266528,0.0108072,-0.003254,-0.046368,0.0019878
WHG:ROU_Meso,0.134311,0.110693,0.168573,0.168284,0 .089863,0.064145,0.01081,0.015922,0.046427,-0.033714,0.002598,-0.019633,0.025272,-0.003991,0.026465,0.023866,-0.00665,0.006334,-0.008673,0.035392,0.052158,0.01014,-0.013434,-0.090133,0.012095

WHG:RUS_Karelia_HG,0.1236877,0.0321583,0.129855,0. 2101663,-0.010361,0.0571723,-0.0196627,-0.0234603,-0.002659,-0.0860153,0.0182957,-0.0184337,0.0333497,-0.039085,0.018865,0.0295237,-0.0148203,0.0031673,-0.0044413,0.012506,-0.007487,0.0169817,0.0093667,-0.021007,-0.0103383
WHG:RUS_Samara_HG,0.119514,0.048745,0.113513,0.206 398,-0.008001,0.054384,-0.013161,-0.023537,-0.01309,-0.090936,0.01429,-0.018883,0.026164,-0.03647,0.020629,0.012994,-0.005867,-0.000507,-0.00729,0.009004,-0.011854,0.025102,0.009737,-0.02651,-0.009101
WHG:RUS_Sidelkino_HG,0.118376,0.039606,0.133501,0. 195739,0.001846,0.054105,-0.019271,-0.018922,-0.0045,-0.071437,0.010068,-0.012139,0.030475,-0.043351,0.027008,0.02201,-0.002738,-0.003927,-0.008547,0.019509,-0.003868,0.011623,0.005546,-0.022413,-0.001796

W_Asian:Levant_PPNC,0.067156,0.168578,-0.023004,-0.150842,0.028621,-0.071954,-0.013866,-0.017999,0.077719,0.037905,0.006496,-0.013188,0.032705,-0.000275,-0.014929,0.008486,-0.000913,-0.007728,-0.013575,0.012381,-0.009982,0.01014,0.002958,0.003012,-0.001916
W_Asian:BedouinB,0.041925,0.1439232,-0.0598156,-0.1169808,-0.0093179,-0.0480622,-0.0141008,-0.0087432,0.05154,-0.0052038,0.0158689,-0.0305729,0.0629496,0.004855,0.0043959,0.0288529,-0.0199706,0.00366,-0.0040153,0.029,0.0109668,0.0152299,-0.0039166,0.0071025,-0.0083092
W_Asian:IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C,0.0896355,0.1327805,-0.0780642,-0.0667802,-0.0437002,-0.0196618,0.0098702,-0.0065768,-0.035178,-0.0030977,0.0051965,-0.0013113,-0.0006317,-0.0019613,-0.0046145,0.0036128,0.00088,0.0022802,0.0032995,-0.0063468,0.0045232,-0.0033388,-0.00835,-0.0118992,0.0006588
W_Asian:IRN_Wezmeh_N,0.037562,0.072103,-0.165556,-0.016473,-0.11756,0.01506,0.017861,-0.003231,-0.071583,-0.046835,0.003085,-0.003147,0.00669,0.000688,0.022122,0.053036,-0.011735,0.001014,0.014581,-0.035267,0.009358,-0.023741,-0.006655,-0.032896,0.019998
W_Asian:Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps,0.1013025,0.133034,-0.07071,-0.043605,-0.0498555,-0.0092035,0.008108,-0.011653,-0.066368,-0.01631,0.0030855,0.011015,-0.019846,0.005849,0.0042075,-0.0102095,-0.0001305,-0.003927,-0.001697,0.0032515,0.003494,-0.000247,-0.0036975,-0.0090975,-0.0030535

Steppe:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.042 6986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537

Berber:MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Berber:MAR_EN,-0.1735805,0.0919055,-0.0258325,-0.083657,0.0283125,-0.0596825,-0.079316,0.021461,0.1500185,0.0043735,0.0222475,-0.0264515,0.075148,-0.0461725,0.069353,-0.03381,0.0171455,-0.05549,-0.1487635,0.0340785,-0.038245,-0.118212,0.0826995,-0.009941,0.021615
Berber:Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
Berber:Iberia_Central_CA_Afr,-0.05122,0.140143,-0.002263,-0.091086,0.0397,-0.047133,-0.036192,0.007384,0.091013,0.044283,0.012179,-0.000899,0.006987,-0.018029,0.020087,-0.016309,0.000652,-0.016596,-0.033561,0.003001,-0.011729,-0.018548,0.013064,-0.009399,0.005987
Berber:ITA_Sardinia_C_o,-0.086506,0.136081,-0.012068,-0.097869,0.035083,-0.041834,-0.039717,0.003461,0.109011,0.035718,0.008282,-0.010341,0.027205,-0.018441,0.024294,-0.030761,-0.014473,-0.032939,-0.058324,0.012506,-0.013351,-0.045628,0.024526,-0.008676,0.00467

African:Mbuti,-0.647426,0.0591038,0.0254932,0.0374034,-0.001108,0.0066378,0.3663348,-0.293434,0.0177118,0.02985,-0.0089316,0.2198242,0.1264506,0.0010182,0.010342,-0.0014052,0.0009386,-0.0518664,0.014229,0.003727,0.0061144,-0.0018548,-0.0043878,0.0025304,-0.0006944
African:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
African:ZAF_2000BP,-0.641583,0.0558543,0.0258957,0.034884,0.001231,-0.0030677,0.2680687,-0.2072223,0.0104307,0.0153683,0.008715,-0.0659913,-0.0216053,0.0064223,0.023751,-0.0201537,0.034204,0.294593,-0.09574,0.0060447,-0.033857,-0.0039157,0.003163,-0.0029323,-0.000399
African:TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP,-0.303908,0.087336,-0.022627,-0.066861,0.005539,-0.035419,0.00141,-0.018692,0.111465,-0.075992,-0.006333,-0.005395,0.001635,0.001789,0.022122,-0.012198,0.020731,0.013682,0.000754,-0.004877,0.003244,-0.001978,-0.006655,0.00494,0.001078
African:CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP,-0.602693,0.055346,0.0148965,0.0263245,-0.0064625,0.00502,0.1243205,-0.099919,0.0138055,-0.007016,-0.00065,-0.0242785,-0.0203665,-0.0052295,0.0021035,-0.00179,0.0127125,0.017356,-0.0011945,-0.0040645,-0.003494,-0.000371,0.0016025,-0.0009035,-0.0020955
African:Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995

East_Eurasian:NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP,0.012521,-0.410274,-0.011691,-0.031331,0.017542,0.011435,0.00658,0.011999,0.0100 22,0.021139,-0.081194,-0.006444,0.010109,-0.004679,-0.011401,0,0.011213,-0.001267,-0.009302,0.009379,0.004991,0.029306,0.004314,0.003 615,0.031734
East_Eurasian:RUS_Shamanka_N,0.0309599,-0.4147422,0.0950344,-0.0157947,-0.0868469,-0.0482203,0.0053815,0.010061,0.0147054,0.0125196,-0.0160603,-0.0018134,0.0035828,-0.0078032,-0.0046552,-0.0032088,-0.0025164,0.0005827,0.0064608,0.0178333,-0.0170449,-0.0059478,-0.0165151,-0.0032051,0.0046943
East_Eurasian:Nganassan,0.0476917,-0.4066181,0.1557885,0.0023902,-0.1594452,-0.0882129,0.0285066,0.0433367,0.0310876,0.0128477, 0.1028569,0.0094115,-0.0040734,-0.0261619,-0.0219731,-0.0123307,-0.0010952,0.0134165,0.0268365,-0.0008505,0.0431363,-0.0118954,0.0336096,0.0003977,0.0135556
East_Eurasian:Even,0.0421147,-0.4319387,0.1399117,-0.015827,-0.138795,-0.0819007,0.0287493,0.036691,0.0328603,0.0261203,0 .0556993,0.007843,-0.0146187,0.0089913,-0.0159697,-0.011049,0.0022597,0.0133867,0.0288267,0.0127147,0 .050411,-0.045298,0.0072717,0.0127327,0.0190403
East_Eurasian:Evenk,0.0409763,-0.421783,0.1272153,-0.0185187,-0.1392053,-0.0880367,0.0288277,0.041229,0.0226337,0.0232047,0 .0638727,0.0085423,-0.013677,0.016744,0.0012667,0.0009723,-0.00226,0.00663,0.0125697,-0.007087,0.030654,-0.010799,0.015488,0.0096397,0.0043507
East_Eurasian:TON_2500BP,0.009675,-0.415859,-0.0499685,-0.0499035,0.1481815,0.061495,0.00047,-0.0080765,-0.0243385,-0.017039,0.0531825,0.0086925,-0.004683,-0.0128675,0.0129615,0.006099,-0.0083445,0.0033575,0.012947,-0.0086295,0.0023705,-0.024854,-0.0077645,-0.013255,-0.0644255
East_Eurasian:VUT_2900BP_all,0.0087267,-0.4211063,-0.0467627,-0.0628773,0.145668,0.0595897,-0.0067367,-0.017307,-0.0191573,-0.0241163,0.0579187,0.0049457,-0.007532,0.006514,0.0184127,0.0109607,-0.00565,0.0032517,0.010601,-0.0117553,0.0045337,-0.0247717,-0.0013967,-0.0151023,-0.062629

For Italians you can remove East Eurasian and African, they always are at "noise" levels(I mean African is definitely real and has a pattern but is still very small), those are the results I get:

https://i.imgur.com/GhCc5o7.png

Vid Flumina

03-19-2020, 08:54 PM

For Italians you can remove East Eurasian and African, they always are at "noise" levels(I mean African is definitely real and has a pattern but is still very small), those are the results I get:

Wouldn't Berber capture it anyway? African admixture in Europe is generally mediated by Afro-Asiatic speakers from North Africa/Arabia

Vid Flumina

03-19-2020, 08:54 PM

Target: VFlumina_scaled
Distance: 3.0018% / 0.03001793
55.0 ENF
38.4 Steppe
5.6 WHG
1.0 W_Asian

Large chunk of Pinarbasi_HG is eating some WHG, otherwise nothing unusual

SharpFork

03-19-2020, 10:19 PM

Wouldn't Berber capture it anyway? African admixture in Europe is generally mediated by Afro-Asiatic speakers from North Africa/Arabia
When you use Berber samples from Sardinia and Iberia(immigrants that don't seem admixed at all), Guanches and earlier mostly Iberomaurusian people you end up with North Africans having around 10% Subsaharan DNA, even when modelling using modern Bedouin samples and Copper Age Levantines.

They definitely have recent SSA admixture through the slave trade and surprisingly not that little, so some of it spilling into Sicily is not unexpected, but it's still under 1%.

SharpFork

03-19-2020, 10:48 PM

Target: VFlumina_scaled
Distance: 3.0018% / 0.03001793
55.0 ENF
38.4 Steppe
5.6 WHG
1.0 W_Asian

Large chunk of Pinarbasi_HG is eating some WHG, otherwise nothing unusual
I don't think it is, if I remove it the average of all results stays the same, if anything maybe all my ENF samples outside Anatolia are eating some WHG but it's really minor(but I guess 1-3% is a lot when talking about WHG admixture in Italians...), I made sure everything was >95% Anatolia Barcin N, I added those to improve fit by including drift, but maybe it wasn't so necessary, try using only the Anatolian Neolithic sample.

BTW where are you from?

Samnium

03-19-2020, 11:03 PM

Southern Italian 23andme results, I can add other (there are many others results on Reddit)

Calabrian and apulian results

Apulians :

4/4 Apulian
Italian 55%
Greek and Balkan 6.8%
Spanish and Portuguese 0.9%
Broadly Southern European !5.4%
Scandinavian 0.5%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.9%
Eastern European 0.6%
Broadly European 1.7%
Anatolian 4.6%
Cypriot 4.2%
Broadly Northern West Asian 2.9%
Levantine 0.3%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 0.9%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 4.3%
Unassigned 1%

4/4 Apulian
Italian 49.3%
Greek & Balkan 10.3%
Spanish & Portuguese 2.8%
Broadly Southern European 11.1%
French & German 4.8%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.4%
Eastern European 1.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
Broadly European 1.0%
Anatolian 3.0%
Cypriot 2.1%
Broadly Northern West Asian 2.9%
Levantine 1.2%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 3.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 4.8%
East Asian 0.1%
Cenral and South Asian 0.1%
Sub-Saharan 0.1%
Unassigned 1.5%

4/4 Apulian
Italian54.3%
Greek & Balkan 6.5%
Spanish & Portuguese 0.5%
Sardinian 0.3%
Broadly Southern European 19.3%
Northwestern European 1.0%
French & German 0.9%
Eastern European 0.6%
Broadly European 5.5%
Anatolian 5.5%
Broadly Northern West Asian 3.9%
Broadly Western Asian & North African1.3%
Sub-Saharan 0.1%
Unassigned 1.4%
https://i.imgur.com/F14Amai.png
https://i.imgur.com/FAAO5mV.png

Cosentians :

1/2 Abruzzo 1/2 Cosenza Calabria
Italian 49.2%
Greek & Balkan 20.3%
Spanish & Portuguese 1.7%
Broadly Southern European 10.0%
British & Irish 0.2%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%
Broadly European 0.6%
Anatolian 2.5%
Cypriot 2.5%
Broadly Northern West Asian 4.0%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 1.0%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 1.0%
North African 0.1%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 6.0%
East Asian 0.1%
Unassigned 1.8%
https://i.imgur.com/H51lUin.png
https://i.imgur.com/erGTOrd.png
https://i.imgur.com/d1ubqvB.png

Other Calabrian provinces :

4/4 Calabrian (unknow location but likely from Reggio/Vibo/Catanzaro)
Italian 60.0%
Greek & Balkan 0.9%
Spanish & Portuguese 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 7.7%
Broadly European 0.6%
Anatolian 4.2%
Iranian, Caucasian & Mesopotamian 3.9%
Cypriot 0.2%
Broadly Northern West Asian 10.1%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 2.7%
Egyptian 1.4%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 1.3%
North African 0.6%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 6.6%
West African 0.1%
Broadly West African 0.1%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.1%
https://i.imgur.com/eVXHupt.png (Reggio Calabria)
https://i.imgur.com/AfTN5M2.png (Catanzaro)

Rocinante

03-19-2020, 11:16 PM

Target: Italian_Abruzzo
Distance: 0.9745% / 0.00974532
46.0 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
28.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.0 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
7.0 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.0 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
0.4 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna

Target: Italian_Aosta_Valley
Distance: 1.4786% / 0.01478631
47.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
43.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.0 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
3.8 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
0.4 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Apulia
Distance: 1.1555% / 0.01155501
46.8 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
25.2 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.6 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
7.0 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.4 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG

Target: Italian_Basilicata
Distance: 0.9674% / 0.00967410
46.6 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
25.0 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.0 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
7.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
0.8 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an

Target: Italian_Bergamo
Distance: 1.6038% / 0.01603807
58.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
36.2 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.8 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
1.0 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an
0.4 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt
0.2 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
0.2 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.1755% / 0.01175527
47.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
22.4 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.2 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
7.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.4 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
1.4 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 0.9248% / 0.00924762
44.4 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
24.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
18.4 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
8.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.2 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG

Target: Italian_Lazio
Distance: 1.0896% / 0.01089634
47.0 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
29.0 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.2 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
7.8 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.0 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna

Target: Italian_Liguria
Distance: 2.2072% / 0.02207237
52.6 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
33.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.8 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
3.8 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
3.6 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
1.4 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an
1.2 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 2.0221% / 0.02022122
57.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
36.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.2 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
2.0 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
1.0 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Marche
Distance: 1.3005% / 0.01300489
46.6 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
31.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
13.6 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
3.6 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.2 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
1.4 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna

Target: Italian_Molise
Distance: 1.1317% / 0.01131699
49.6 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
28.4 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.6 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
6.8 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.6 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
1.0 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an

Target: Italian_Northeast
Distance: 1.3551% / 0.01355140
52.0 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
41.0 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.8 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
2.2 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
1.0 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 1.3031% / 0.01303096
52.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
36.8 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.4 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
2.8 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
1.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.2 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt
0.2 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 1.3968% / 0.01396845
54.8 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
37.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.2 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
1.2 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
1.2 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an

Target: Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 1.0787% / 0.01078707
51.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
34.2 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.0 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
2.4 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
2.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.6 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
0.2 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an

Target: Italian_Umbria
Distance: 0.9175% / 0.00917538
50.6 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
31.2 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.0 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
4.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.6 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
1.4 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
0.8 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Veneto
Distance: 1.2075% / 0.01207462
53.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
38.2 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.8 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
3.8 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 2.1235% / 0.02123492
80.6 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
10.4 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
3.4 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt
3.4 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.0 Ancient_Siberia:RUS_Tyumen_HG

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 1.5820% / 0.01582009
45.2 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
23.6 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.0 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
6.2 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.8 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
1.8 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an
0.4 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 1.5223% / 0.01522296
42.8 Early_European_Farmer:HUN_Koros_N
23.0 Steppe_Pastoralist:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.2 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B_Levant:Levant_PPNC
8.2 Iran_Pastoral_Neolithic:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.2 Western_Hunter_Gatherer:ITA_Villabruna
3.2 Satsurblia_Cluster:GEO_CHG
1.8 Africa_Pastoral_Neolithic:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteit an
0.6 Iberomaurusian:MAR_Taforalt

Vid Flumina

03-20-2020, 12:16 AM

I don't think it is, if I remove it the average of all results stays the same, if anything maybe all my ENF samples outside Anatolia are eating some WHG but it's really minor(but I guess 1-3% is a lot when talking about WHG admixture in Italians...), I made sure everything was >95% Anatolia Barcin N, I added those to improve fit by including drift, but maybe it wasn't so necessary, try using only the Anatolian Neolithic sample.

BTW where are you from?

I must be the only one scoring it in significant amounts then, if I remove it WHG goes back up:

Target: VFlumina_scaled
Distance: 3.1328% / 0.03132803
53.6 ENF
38.2 Steppe
8.0 WHG
0.2 East_Eurasian

I'm mostly from SW Piedmont and Eastern Veneto

Token

03-21-2020, 04:00 PM

Target: Italian_Northeast
Distance: 1.2849% / 0.01284887
59.0 Italian_Lombardy
30.0 Slovenian
11.0 Swiss_German

Rocinante

03-23-2020, 09:46 AM

Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin,0.1175998,0.1801 18,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Ancient_Sub-Saharan_Africa:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan,-0.287024,0.0907208,-0.0276555,-0.0726212,0.0024618,-0.038301,-0.0101445,-0.0047307,0.1227825,-0.0826743,-0.0060355,-0.0064442,-0.0024528,0.0003442,0.021783,-0.019093,0.01695,0.0029983,0.0102862,-0.0021678,0.0041177,0.0024938,-0.0084632,-0.0035748,0.0022753
Yamnaya:RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0. 1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0. 0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Ancient_East_Asia:RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N,0.0227646 ,-0.4480516,0.0728598,-0.052972,-0.0414846,-0.0407738,0.005264,0.011215,0.0075266,0.021431,-0.0507624,-0.005665,0.0027948,0.0100466,-0.0100162,-0.0120658,-0.0043026,0.0060558,0.0153102,0.0099798,0.0104566,-0.0287366,-0.0196458,-0.0016628,-0.0099152
Ancient_South_Asia:IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708 ,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858, 0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian,0.020488,0.143 1895,-0.0377125,-0.1387295,0.030775,-0.079484,-0.025616,-0.0175375,0.114329,0.002005,0.0332085,-0.0222555,0.076486,0.002133,0.0153365,0.009016,-0.0154505,-0.001014,-0.02206,0.040832,0.001497,0.0001235,-0.003636,-0.0044585,0.006287
Ancient_America:BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP,0.050765,-0.3095332,0.1206032,0.098515,-0.1156522,-0.017626,-0.284645,-0.3400012,-0.0136212,-0.0184422,0.002241,-0.003267,0.0004162,0.017478,-0.0065688,0.0064438,0.006493,-0.001267,0.0026898,0.003727,-0.0010482,0.007963,-0.002662,-0.0043378,0.001413
Ancient_America:USA_Ancient_Beringian,0.0432525,-0.3051665,0.0873035,0.081073,-0.0887855,-0.020777,-0.1215005,-0.150686,-0.020657,-0.0218685,0.008038,-0.009816,0.0097375,-0.0141065,-0.009093,0.004508,0.002021,0.0119085,0.003017,0.01 39445,-0.005927,0.0059355,0.00721,0.0040965,-0.0006585
Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik,0.10870 1,0.1731478,-0.0143308,-0.100534,0.0270818,-0.0402298,-0.0045828,-0.005019,0.02623,0.05745,0.008444,0.0080555,-0.0101832,0.0052298,-0.0352192,-0.0104748,0.0088662,0.0004432,0.005342,-0.0032828,0.0026827,0.0044515,-0.0071795,-0.0038258,-0.0045805
Ancient_Sub-Saharan_Africa:ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Yamnaya:RUS_Kalmykia,0.115189,0.092007,0.0465368,0 .1129864,-0.0276358,0.0420566,0.004371,-0.003646,-0.0539944,-0.0743522,-0.000942,0.0004496,-0.001011,-0.023616,0.0278496,0.0116148,0.0012254,-0.002559,0.0007542,0.0102548,-0.0042426,0.0005688,0.016244,0.0230152,-0.0035446
Ancient_Oceania:VUT_2350BP,-0.025041,-0.308721,-0.164802,0.148258,0.158491,-0.256579,-0.0094,-0.017999,-0.030474,-0.015672,0.021273,0.005995,0.004608,0.000963,0.008 279,-0.004243,-0.007953,-0.005321,0.005782,-0.004252,-0.003119,-0.008161,-0.010846,-0.002289,-0.02862
Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke,0.1161,0.073118,0.040729,0.1178 96,-0.032929,0.059961,-0.00517,-0.003,-0.052972,-0.080548,0.002436,-0.006744,0.001933,-0.027662,0.034473,0.008751,-0.021122,-0.004814,0.002388,0.014632,0.000499,0.006059,0.018 117,0.016629,-0.004071
Western_Hunter-Gatherer:BEL_Loschbour,0.133173,0.106631,0.20176,0 .192186,0.164338,0.055778,0.00611,0.036922,0.09653 5,0.02278,-0.020786,-0.016186,0.024975,-0.007432,0.065824,0.063643,0.008084,0.006714,-0.013324,0.065281,0.120038,0.019166,-0.059405,-0.175687,0.022992
Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1195143,0.11 2385,0.1988683,0.204137,0.1729553,0.0623787,0.0160 593,0.0390753,0.10867,0.0242983,-0.019649,-0.0154863,0.0161543,-0.0117437,0.0715247,0.0668253,4.37e-05,0.011191,-0.0103493,0.0629887,0.1171267,0.010634,-0.0599803,-0.1960117,0.0237503

Target: Italian_Abruzzo
Distance: 1.4419% / 0.01441945
44.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
21.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
21.4 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
6.6 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
3.6 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.6 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.2 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Aosta_Valley
Distance: 2.7342% / 0.02734177
52.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
29.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
10.2 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
7.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:BEL_Loschbour

Target: Italian_Apulia
Distance: 1.5563% / 0.01556267
54.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
17.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
15.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
8.4 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
3.6 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt
0.4 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Italian_Basilicata
Distance: 1.3165% / 0.01316527
48.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
18.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
13.2 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
10.2 Yamnaya:RUS_Kalmykia
5.2 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.6 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
1.6 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.4 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt
0.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Italian_Bergamo
Distance: 2.5892% / 0.02589192
61.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
17.2 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
15.8 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
5.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.4312% / 0.01431200
54.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
14.8 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
11.0 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
9.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Kalmykia
6.8 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.8 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt
1.6 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.4259% / 0.01425854
46.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
19.8 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
18.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
6.0 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.4 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
2.8 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.6 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Lazio
Distance: 1.8234% / 0.01823360
42.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
24.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
21.4 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
5.8 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
2.4 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
2.2 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian

Target: Italian_Liguria
Distance: 3.0875% / 0.03087453
48.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
33.0 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
12.8 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
5.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.8 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 2.9476% / 0.02947569
62.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
27.8 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
5.0 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
4.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik

Target: Italian_Marche
Distance: 1.7569% / 0.01756860
47.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
22.0 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
19.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
8.8 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
2.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.4 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian

Target: Italian_Molise
Distance: 1.4795% / 0.01479507
46.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
23.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
20.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
4.4 Yamnaya:RUS_Kalmykia
3.6 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.6 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.6 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke

Target: Italian_Northeast
Distance: 2.4605% / 0.02460514
54.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
20.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Kalmykia
14.0 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
6.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:BEL_Loschbour
4.0 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 2.0523% / 0.02052324
44.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
26.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
17.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
7.4 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
4.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 2.4145% / 0.02414480
58.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
24.0 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
10.8 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
5.4 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
1.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:BEL_Loschbour

Target: Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 1.6371% / 0.01637081
35.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
28.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
28.6 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
3.8 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
3.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.2 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Umbria
Distance: 1.5442% / 0.01544152
34.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
30.8 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
30.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
2.0 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.8 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Veneto
Distance: 2.2101% / 0.02210118
58.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
26.4 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
9.0 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
3.2 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
3.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:BEL_Loschbour

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 3.4905% / 0.03490520
82.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
11.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
4.2 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
1.0 Ancient_South_Asia:IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
0.8 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 1.7434% / 0.01743447
61.8 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
19.4 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
7.4 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
4.2 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
3.2 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.6 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
0.6 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt
0.6 Ancient_Sub-Saharan_Africa:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan
0.4 Ancient_Oceania:VUT_2350BP

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 1.8469% / 0.01846890
58.0 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Tepecik_Ciftlik
15.0 Yamnaya:KAZ_Mereke
8.2 Anatolian_Neolithic_Farmer:Barcin
7.6 Yamnaya:RUS_Samara
3.6 Ancient_Central_Asia:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
2.4 Ancient_North_Africa:MAR_Taforalt
0.8 Ancient_Middle_East:Levant_Natufian
0.4 Ancient_Sub-Saharan_Africa:KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan
0.4 Ancient_South_Asia:IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2

With my calc and good distances, seems to be that southern italians are getting very european.

Samnium

03-24-2020, 12:13 AM

Spreadsheet of different results from Sicily (23andme) :

https://i.redd.it/i11z0bxjy8o41.png

Some comments :

"This is what I observed:

Maltese are different than Sicilians based on the limited results I have, even compared to those from Agrigento. Maltese score very high North African-like ancestry (both North African Berber and North African Jewish, which I combined into one grouping as Myheritage does) when compared to Sicilians, but much less West Asian and Middle Eastern.

Palermo has some very high outliers for both West Asian and Middle Eastern, sometimes 20%+, as well as more North/Northwest/Eastern European. This offsets their lower Greek ancestry.

Southeastern Sicily -- Syracuse, Ragusa, and Enna -- have the least total "WANA" ancestry, with the Syracusan result having the least. The Syracusan also is the only Sicilian on my list to score 'Balkan' and they score it at 36%. This person is an outlier for the spreadsheet.

Sicily seems to have more of a North vs South genetic division, with Palermo, Messina, and Catania being similar versus Trapani and Agrigento being similar, with the southeast and Malta as outliers."

"I am noticing more of a southeast to northwest cline for increasing WANA admixture, and a southeast Sicily which is strongly Italic and Greek which means that similarly to Iberia where the Basque Country was shielded from a lot of later migration, this is SE Sicily for Sicily.

West Asian (Anatolian, Armenian, Mesopotamian type mixture) is on a clear north to south cline, with Palermo having the most, then Messina/Catania, down to almost nothing in the southeast of the island.

Middle Eastern (Levant, Arabian type mixture) is omnipresent across the island, with the highest outliers in the north. So there is a minor north to south cline here too but it is not as noticeable.

This would indicate to me that to some extent, these two components arrived together, possibly either from Phoenician settlement or movements out of West Asia when these regions were under Byzantine rule.

North African mixture is present throughout the island with the exception of the southeast where it is negligible."

(https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/fn1vmm/any_siciliansmaltese_try_myheritage_spreadsheet/)

Rocinante

03-24-2020, 04:08 PM

Rocinante

04-05-2020, 11:20 AM

Using my last model:

Target: Italian_Abruzzo
Distance: 2.4430% / 0.02443049 | ADC: 0.25x
56.2 EEF
32.2 WSH
6.2 Natufian
5.4 Neolithic_Iran

Target: Italian_Aosta_Valley
Distance: 3.0556% / 0.03055640 | ADC: 0.25x
50.0 EEF
42.8 WSH
7.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Apulia
Distance: 2.6136% / 0.02613585 | ADC: 0.25x
57.0 EEF
29.6 WSH
7.0 Neolithic_Iran
6.4 Natufian

Target: Italian_Basilicata
Distance: 2.2185% / 0.02218538 | ADC: 0.25x
56.6 EEF
29.0 WSH
7.8 Neolithic_Iran
6.6 Natufian

Target: Italian_Bergamo
Distance: 3.2485% / 0.03248473 | ADC: 0.25x
58.8 EEF
36.0 WSH
5.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 2.6068% / 0.02606799 | ADC: 0.25x
56.2 EEF
25.2 WSH
10.6 Neolithic_Iran
8.0 Natufian

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 2.3488% / 0.02348788 | ADC: 0.25x
56.2 EEF
27.0 WSH
9.0 Neolithic_Iran
7.8 Natufian

Target: Italian_Lazio
Distance: 2.7331% / 0.02733051 | ADC: 0.25x
58.2 EEF
33.2 WSH
5.8 Natufian
2.6 Neolithic_Iran
0.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Liguria
Distance: 4.0454% / 0.04045372 | ADC: 0.25x
55.4 EEF
38.2 WSH
4.2 WHG
2.2 Natufian

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 3.7785% / 0.03778503 | ADC: 0.25x
59.4 EEF
36.4 WSH
4.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Marche
Distance: 2.8065% / 0.02806478 | ADC: 0.25x
56.4 EEF
37.2 WSH
5.8 Natufian
0.6 Neolithic_Iran

Target: Italian_Molise
Distance: 2.3391% / 0.02339091 | ADC: 0.25x
57.2 EEF
32.8 WSH
5.4 Neolithic_Iran
4.6 Natufian

Target: Italian_Northeast
Distance: 2.7891% / 0.02789084 | ADC: 0.25x
53.0 EEF
41.0 WSH
6.0 WHG

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 2.7190% / 0.02718986 | ADC: 0.25x
57.6 EEF
38.4 WSH
2.8 WHG
1.2 Natufian

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 2.8644% / 0.02864371 | ADC: 0.25x
55.8 EEF
37.4 WSH
6.8 WHG

Target: Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 2.4372% / 0.02437207 | ADC: 0.25x
58.0 EEF
37.6 WSH
3.0 Natufian
1.4 WHG

Target: Italian_Umbria
Distance: 2.3233% / 0.02323282 | ADC: 0.25x
58.4 EEF
36.2 WSH
3.8 Natufian
1.6 Neolithic_Iran

Target: Italian_Veneto
Distance: 2.5576% / 0.02557616 | ADC: 0.25x
56.4 EEF
37.8 WSH
5.8 WHG

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 4.2313% / 0.04231267 | ADC: 0.25x
81.4 EEF
10.8 WHG
7.6 WSH
0.2 Iberomaurusian

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 3.0512% / 0.03051169 | ADC: 0.25x
53.8 EEF
28.6 WSH
10.6 Natufian
7.0 Neolithic_Iran

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 3.0001% / 0.03000069 | ADC: 0.25x
51.4 EEF
29.6 WSH
12.0 Natufian
5.8 Neolithic_Iran
1.2 WHG

Vid Flumina

04-05-2020, 11:30 PM

Samnium

04-05-2020, 11:34 PM

Italian_Aosta_Valley has been updated with lots of new samples, eventually making it to the top of my closest modern populations:

Distance to: VFlumina_scaled
0.03098592 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03266227 French_Provence
0.03369721 Italian_Northeast
0.03515743 Swiss_French
0.03615507 Italian_Veneto
0.03842079 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03932807 Swiss_Italian
0.03948891 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04039403 Spanish_Baleares
0.04081677 Spanish_Girona
0.04170423 French_Auvergne
0.04195865 Spanish_Penedes
0.04266887 Italian_Bergamo
0.04378555 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04428843 Swiss_German
0.04443637 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04488918 Italian_Piedmont
0.04491194 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04545997 Romanian
0.04551167 Montenegrin
0.04562266 French_Occitanie
0.04564784 Spanish_Castello
0.04569003 Spanish_Lleida
0.04585928 French_Paris
0.04605192 French_Alsace
0.04692039 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04750461 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04815329 Spanish_Soria
0.04826715 Spanish_Alacant
0.04836103 French_Nord
0.04846847 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04852102 Spanish_Menorca
0.04855184 Bulgarian
0.04873171 Moldovan
0.04906639 Italian_Tuscany
0.04956727 Spanish_Murcia
0.04992163 Belgian
0.05033435 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.05054438 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.05075020 Macedonian
0.05101677 Spanish_Pirineu
0.05123258 Spanish_Valencia
0.05142352 Albanian
0.05176692 Italian_Lombardy
0.05203176 French_Corsica
0.05207841 Spanish_Extremadura
0.05227366 Spanish_Cantabria
0.05252009 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.05268212 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.05284368 Portuguese

Aostans essentially bridge the gap between Italian_Northeast cluster and Swiss French/Southcentral France, which should be no surprise given their geographic position. There's possibly a gradient within the valley itself

I've always thought about areas that are close to Piedmonte (close to Ivrea area, at the beginning of the valley) being much more italian, and others that are near the border, NW part of the valley being really French like.

The precedent average had only two samples, but one was clearly Northern French leaning, and the other Northern Italian "shifted".

For Swiss French, I don't know from where have been taken the samples but if anything I would say that they are between Central France (like Auvergne) and Swiss Germans genetically rather than with Provence or whatever (it's a position that I've observed in some PCA), Swiss France cover from near Aosta Valley to areas that are at 1h from Bale, I don't think that all the region would look the same definitely.

Vaud, Valais, Fribourg, Genève are very disparate areas, with different geography and history. The only thing that they share more or less (because Fribourg is really at the fringe of Swiss France) it's the language.

Token

04-05-2020, 11:37 PM

Samnium

04-05-2020, 11:42 PM

Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta1,0.134311,0.161469,0.04 5254,0.004845,0.049855,0.001952,-0.00517,0.005538,0.002659,0.02442,0.002598,0.00554 5,-0.019177,-0.014863,0.0076,-0.000133,0,-0.0019,0.004777,0.005503,0.01123,0.002968,-0.007518,0.002289,0.005748
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta10,0.132035,0.135065,0.0 36958,0.00323,0.039392,0,0.00517,0.003692,0.021066 ,0.019317,-0.00682,0.003897,-0.013082,-0.007569,0.008686,0.001061,-0.002999,-0.000253,0.002011,-0.002001,0.00836,-0.004081,-0.000986,0.015424,-0.005029
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta11,0.124067,0.144205,0.0 36581,-0.01292,0.0397,0.003347,-0.00564,0.002077,0.020043,0.016401,0.001299,0.0139 38,-0.019177,-0.008257,0.009908,0.011138,0.00678,0.002534,-0.00176,0.001751,0.004367,0.008408,-0.002342,0.004579,-0.012214
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta12,0.114961,0.149283,0.0 32432,0.018734,0.02739,0.001394,0.004935,-0.002538,-0.002863,0.018588,-0.006333,0.01124,-0.023042,-0.005505,0.013843,-0.008088,-0.007041,-0.000127,0.003394,-0.016508,0.016845,0.002226,-0.004437,0.010363,0.002275
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta14,0.126344,0.146236,0.0 33187,0.008075,0.035083,-0.00251,0.00564,0.002538,0.008795,0.026606,-0.001299,0.00045,-0.010704,-0.020506,0.011672,0.014187,0.016037,-0.00076,0.005782,-0.00075,-0.00287,0.00371,0.007395,0.010604,0.000359
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta15,0.127482,0.148267,0.0 47894,0.013566,0.036314,-0.006972,0.007285,0,0.01718,0.029887,-0.008444,-0.001798,-0.020961,-0.010322,0.002172,-0.001724,-0.007432,-0.001647,0.009176,0,0.009608,0.004699,-0.013434,0.003374,0.002275
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta16,0.125205,0.14319,0.03 8466,0.004199,0.032006,-0.01004,0.005405,0.000231,0.005113,0.019864,-0.000974,0.015286,-0.017839,-0.008257,0.019001,-0.004243,-0.010691,0.002787,0.002765,-0.011005,0.003743,0.007666,-0.004437,0,0.003952
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta17,0.124067,0.141159,0.0 36581,0.001615,0.038776,-0.008088,0.00329,0.005538,0.001227,0.029158,-0.011042,0.004646,-0.015758,-0.013487,-0.003936,0.016839,0.015907,0.003801,0.003645,-0.003001,-0.00574,-0.012736,0.007765,0.00723,-0.002874
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta18,0.129758,0.148267,0.0 38466,0.007752,0.039392,-0.003626,0.003525,-0.002308,0.012476,0.020046,-0.001299,0.00015,-0.009514,-0.002202,0.007465,-0.003978,-0.017732,0.002407,0.003771,0.000625,0.003993,0.004 081,-0.003081,0.003133,0.003592
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta19,0.125205,0.142174,0.0 39598,0.002584,0.038161,-0.00251,0.00564,0.005769,0.006749,0.017495,-0.015265,0.007793,-0.008028,-0.010872,0.0076,0.012861,0.014603,-0.005701,0.006788,0.001501,0.005241,0.001731,0.004 19,0.002048,-0.005628
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta2,0.129758,0.14319,0.044 5,0.00969,0.039084,-0.004462,0.00564,0.011307,0.007158,0.016948,-0.014453,0.005395,-0.013082,-0.00867,0.012758,0.011933,0.008736,-0.000633,0.004777,0.003752,0.019216,0.004575,0.002 835,0.020123,0.001916
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta20,0.126344,0.135065,0.0 30547,0.006137,0.029852,0.00251,0.009635,0.005538,-0.001432,0.024055,-0.012179,-0.004796,-0.01665,-0.011423,0.006107,0.005436,0.010952,-0.012289,0.002263,-0.001126,0.001373,0.005193,0.002711,0.00976,0.0003 59
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta21,0.122929,0.157407,0.0 34318,-0.001292,0.032621,-0.00502,-0.00188,0.000462,0.014726,0.018041,-0.003085,0.006444,-0.016055,-0.003165,0.005565,0.0118,0,0.009755,-0.004525,-0.011756,-0.000873,0.002844,0.004314,0.010604,0.004311
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta22,0.132035,0.141159,0.0 36204,-0.002907,0.028928,-0.003347,0.011986,0.009,0.004909,0.019499,0.002111 ,0.001948,-0.013379,-0.020368,0.002307,0.011535,0.020079,-0.003547,-0.002388,0.005503,-0.003369,0.001113,-0.000739,0.012893,0.00479
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta3,0.125205,0.142174,0.05 0911,0.007106,0.037545,0.001116,-0.00423,0.005077,0.01309,0.026789,-0.005359,-0.001049,-0.013082,-0.011698,0.009772,0.015248,0.001434,0.006714,0.001 131,-0.008129,-0.001497,0.000742,-0.007518,0.005061,-0.003473
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta4,0.122929,0.145221,0.03 5826,-0.00323,0.041546,-0.003904,-0.001175,0.001385,0.01493,0.029158,-0.007795,-0.000749,-0.016799,-0.00055,0.001629,0.017502,0.006389,0.003927,0.0211 17,-0.001626,0.007487,-0.00136,-0.007518,0.001205,-0.001916
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta6,0.12862,0.149283,0.041 106,0.011951,0.037545,0.005299,0.00235,0.005769,0. 012476,0.016401,-0.001299,0.009741,-0.008176,-0.010872,0.010043,-0.00716,-0.001956,0.001267,-0.000251,0.002626,-0.00262,0.005441,-0.000739,0.006868,-0.001676
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta7,0.126344,0.151314,0.03 9221,0.004522,0.03139,-0.000279,-0.001175,0.002308,0.015748,0.025513,-0.005196,0.004796,-0.010704,-0.012799,0.005565,0.012861,0.017732,0.000507,0.003 897,0.008754,-0.01148,-0.003586,0.012202,0.015424,-0.001916
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta8,0.129758,0.153345,0.04 6763,-0.002261,0.0397,0.006136,-0.00094,-0.005769,0.012885,0.020775,-0.000812,0.008243,-0.014569,-0.015414,0.000407,0.003978,0.017211,-0.005828,0.003142,0.006753,-0.001622,0.001855,-0.006902,0.009158,0.002395
Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta9,0.132035,0.144205,0.04 0352,0.013566,0.045239,-0.001952,-0.002115,0.000462,0.017589,0.020228,0.000325,0.007 493,-0.014717,-0.010322,0.011808,0.00411,0.015776,-0.006714,-0.002011,0.008379,-0.00287,0.003462,-0.000123,0.012652,0.001557

Ethel

04-05-2020, 11:46 PM

Piedmont and Swiss_Italian are still broken though, these two need to be updated as well
I expect Piedmontese to be closer to Aostans than any Trivenetians

SharpFork

04-05-2020, 11:47 PM

It might be a grandient but it probably has a strong break on the Italian side because trying to model samples as a mixture of Northern Italians and Swiss French I end up with at best a 40/60 French/Italian split and outside a pair of 100% French samples the maximum is 85% French.

Among piedmontese samples there is one with 33% French and another with 18% French but all others are only Italian.

SharpFork

04-05-2020, 11:48 PM

Piedmont and Swiss_Italian are still broken though, these two need to be updated as well
I expect Piedmontese to be closer to Aostans than any Trivenetians
Broken how?
What's a Trivenetian?

Samnium

04-05-2020, 11:51 PM

Distances to different Aostan samples

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta1
0.02973188 Swiss_French
0.03101300 French_Auvergne
0.03200615 French_Occitanie
0.03205727 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03259007 Spanish_Penedes
0.03278070 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03305370 Spanish_Lleida
0.03455511 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03493973 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03501030 Spanish_Girona
0.03515396 French_Provence
0.03568911 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03570240 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03671496 Spanish_Castello
0.03711317 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03800318 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03857165 Spanish_Valencia
0.03861680 Swiss_German
0.03878749 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03887932 Spanish_Aragon
0.03894212 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03965709 Spanish_Baleares
0.04045613 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04054725 French_South
0.04057492 Italian_Bergamo

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta10
0.02484133 French_Provence
0.02764701 Swiss_French
0.02843339 French_Auvergne
0.02879544 Spanish_Girona
0.02917586 Spanish_Lleida
0.02953537 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02987962 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02998956 Spanish_Penedes
0.03023677 French_Occitanie
0.03099902 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03113574 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03147582 Italian_Northeast
0.03151604 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03181940 Spanish_Baleares
0.03189372 Swiss_German
0.03294116 French_Paris
0.03303853 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03304794 Italian_Veneto
0.03305386 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03360873 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03417286 French_Alsace
0.03428435 Spanish_Castello
0.03444859 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03456622 Spanish_Valencia
0.03523369 Spanish_Aragon

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta11
0.02963192 Spanish_Baleares
0.03012369 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03128855 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03147594 French_Provence
0.03148551 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03168084 Spanish_Girona
0.03178765 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03182760 Spanish_Menorca
0.03219727 Italian_Veneto
0.03222883 Spanish_Penedes
0.03248593 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03252616 Spanish_Lleida
0.03312337 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03321769 Swiss_French
0.03478367 Spanish_Castello
0.03488116 Spanish_Alacant
0.03548497 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03562913 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03601906 Swiss_Italian
0.03634879 Portuguese
0.03652840 Italian_Bergamo
0.03659805 French_Auvergne
0.03670694 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03713440 Spanish_Valencia
0.03719809 Spanish_Aragon

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta12
0.03914023 French_Provence
0.04032166 Swiss_German
0.04209773 Swiss_French
0.04289662 French_Alsace
0.04335606 Belgian
0.04335787 French_Occitanie
0.04385586 French_Auvergne
0.04427219 French_Nord
0.04438507 French_Paris
0.04499497 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04595651 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04610318 Italian_Northeast
0.04639996 Spanish_Penedes
0.04714522 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04747083 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04763648 Spanish_Girona
0.04768890 Italian_Veneto
0.04792074 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04808276 Spanish_Lleida
0.04827939 Spanish_Alacant
0.04894633 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04896239 Spanish_Baleares
0.04910113 Italian_Bergamo
0.04942540 Italian_Liguria
0.04965785 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta14
0.02781510 French_Provence
0.02880954 Swiss_French
0.03276218 Spanish_Girona
0.03344645 Spanish_Penedes
0.03370140 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03513719 Spanish_Baleares
0.03568355 Italian_Veneto
0.03579190 French_Auvergne
0.03592567 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03621978 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03668493 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03701712 Italian_Northeast
0.03745237 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03840799 Spanish_Lleida
0.03850683 French_Occitanie
0.03909544 Spanish_Castello
0.03957258 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03957522 French_Paris
0.04041311 Spanish_Soria
0.04100312 Swiss_German
0.04149033 Swiss_Italian
0.04151715 Spanish_Alacant
0.04195167 Italian_Bergamo
0.04271933 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04312973 Spanish_Barcelones

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta15
0.02784502 French_Occitanie
0.02859873 French_Auvergne
0.02880230 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02994081 Spanish_Lleida
0.03118408 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03166219 Spanish_Penedes
0.03171837 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03176317 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03190151 Spanish_Castello
0.03212571 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03249436 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03263923 Spanish_Girona
0.03343352 French_South
0.03369182 Swiss_French
0.03377155 French_Provence
0.03435078 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03472319 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03481554 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03502609 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03519950 Swiss_German
0.03551669 Spanish_Valencia
0.03556345 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03560778 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03577868 Spanish_Baleares
0.03645508 Spanish_Aragon

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta16
0.03005811 French_Provence
0.03261802 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03292386 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03312737 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03313940 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03356661 French_Auvergne
0.03428478 Spanish_Penedes
0.03439763 French_Occitanie
0.03457215 Spanish_Lleida
0.03491737 Swiss_French
0.03537394 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03539278 Italian_Lombardy
0.03571290 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03580832 Spanish_Girona
0.03595561 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03646896 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03653586 Spanish_Alacant
0.03669053 Spanish_Baleares
0.03693854 Italian_Veneto
0.03763852 Swiss_German
0.03763976 Italian_Bergamo
0.03767457 Spanish_Valencia
0.03772652 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03778664 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03807700 Spanish_Menorca

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta17
0.03526454 French_Provence
0.03656125 Italian_Veneto
0.03677064 Italian_Northeast
0.03696564 Spanish_Baleares
0.03703884 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03789644 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03880148 Spanish_Girona
0.04024528 Swiss_French
0.04078395 Spanish_Penedes
0.04109985 Italian_Bergamo
0.04133746 Swiss_Italian
0.04219236 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04270547 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04327243 Spanish_Soria
0.04358844 Spanish_Castello
0.04399481 Italian_Piedmont
0.04403364 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04409824 French_Auvergne
0.04449121 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04468466 Spanish_Lleida
0.04568108 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04581260 Spanish_Alacant
0.04630867 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04667472 Spanish_Menorca
0.04676049 French_Occitanie

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta18
0.02710527 French_Auvergne
0.02758848 French_Occitanie
0.02771877 French_Provence
0.02784316 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02882853 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03029897 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03036994 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03065571 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03097861 Italian_Northeast
0.03110111 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03122720 Spanish_Penedes
0.03129476 Spanish_Lleida
0.03143513 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03160419 Swiss_German
0.03178621 Swiss_French
0.03203889 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03229207 French_Alsace
0.03248815 Italian_Veneto
0.03341808 Spanish_Girona
0.03373941 Spanish_Valencia
0.03378320 Italian_Lombardy
0.03410896 Italian_Bergamo
0.03416872 French_Nord
0.03452216 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03461267 Spanish_Menorca

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta19
0.02636373 French_Provence
0.02760285 Swiss_French
0.03157563 Italian_Northeast
0.03221027 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03236010 Spanish_Girona
0.03251735 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03269837 Italian_Veneto
0.03296801 Spanish_Baleares
0.03337159 French_Auvergne
0.03471293 Spanish_Penedes
0.03491104 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03620759 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03683510 French_Occitanie
0.03704028 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03706503 Spanish_Lleida
0.03717364 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03795012 Spanish_Castello
0.03826754 French_Paris
0.03857008 Swiss_German
0.03911925 Swiss_Italian
0.03945846 Spanish_Soria
0.03946869 French_Alsace
0.03974722 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03984967 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04013328 Spanish_Cataluna

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta2
0.03381309 Swiss_French
0.03406528 French_Paris
0.03424609 French_Provence
0.03725977 French_Occitanie
0.03740705 French_Auvergne
0.03764071 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03777348 French_Alsace
0.03785739 Swiss_German
0.03845292 French_Nord
0.03893071 Belgian
0.04170651 Spanish_Girona
0.04193880 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04275771 Spanish_Lleida
0.04296402 Italian_Northeast
0.04304233 Spanish_Penedes
0.04323421 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04388761 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04411843 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04485453 Spanish_Baleares
0.04526187 Spanish_Castello
0.04593852 Italian_Veneto
0.04622830 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04625454 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04672511 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04680632 Spanish_Cataluna

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta20
0.03137330 French_Provence
0.03384663 Swiss_French
0.03429541 Italian_Northeast
0.03633109 Italian_Veneto
0.03635937 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03736937 Swiss_Italian
0.03940511 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04091324 Swiss_German
0.04119678 Spanish_Girona
0.04123868 French_Auvergne
0.04143202 Spanish_Penedes
0.04215013 Spanish_Baleares
0.04218505 Italian_Piedmont
0.04247194 Italian_Bergamo
0.04314657 Romanian
0.04336635 French_Paris
0.04347143 French_Alsace
0.04348292 French_Occitanie
0.04366815 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04420855 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04475525 French_Nord
0.04478922 Italian_Liguria
0.04524729 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04532070 Belgian
0.04553790 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta21
0.02773297 Italian_Veneto
0.02783705 French_Provence
0.02831526 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02972810 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03117844 Spanish_Baleares
0.03187348 Italian_Northeast
0.03190852 Italian_Bergamo
0.03219442 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03303248 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03373940 Spanish_Alacant
0.03388515 Spanish_Penedes
0.03393213 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03407742 Spanish_Girona
0.03479279 Italian_Piedmont
0.03545915 Italian_Lombardy
0.03563185 Swiss_French
0.03590465 Swiss_Italian
0.03603228 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03633616 Spanish_Lleida
0.03657223 French_Auvergne
0.03670179 Spanish_Menorca
0.03815015 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03862226 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03891388 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03906624 Spanish_Galicia

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta22
0.03512850 French_Provence
0.03714805 Italian_Northeast
0.03729043 Swiss_Italian
0.03749629 Swiss_French
0.03781463 Italian_Veneto
0.03997026 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04134921 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04247130 Spanish_Girona
0.04288063 Italian_Bergamo
0.04288498 Italian_Piedmont
0.04301938 Spanish_Penedes
0.04351917 Spanish_Baleares
0.04455918 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04494211 French_Auvergne
0.04555700 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04608072 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04666679 Spanish_Lleida
0.04676377 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04747812 Spanish_Castello
0.04810422 Swiss_German
0.04818329 Italian_Tuscany
0.04825345 French_Occitanie
0.04937389 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04947698 Italian_Lombardy
0.04965637 Romanian

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta3
0.02426153 French_Auvergne
0.02515594 French_Occitanie
0.02522500 Spanish_Penedes
0.02589603 Spanish_Girona
0.02623179 French_Provence
0.02641886 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02693915 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02834098 Swiss_French
0.02845101 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02868315 Spanish_Castello
0.02885310 French_Paris
0.02888486 Spanish_Baleares
0.02933485 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03011549 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03028041 Spanish_Lleida
0.03111602 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03159777 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03196504 Spanish_Alacant
0.03240621 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03291794 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03315396 French_Alsace
0.03330395 Swiss_German
0.03332952 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03333553 French_Nord
0.03342602 Spanish_Soria

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta4
0.03187071 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03271121 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03319590 Italian_Veneto
0.03372729 Spanish_Baleares
0.03446166 Spanish_Girona
0.03503204 French_Provence
0.03504819 Spanish_Castello
0.03522949 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03541083 Italian_Bergamo
0.03551003 Spanish_Penedes
0.03619720 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03629497 Italian_Northeast
0.03639016 Spanish_Lleida
0.03698378 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03734402 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03776575 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03789917 Swiss_French
0.03822205 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03830278 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03848601 Spanish_Menorca
0.03848805 French_Auvergne
0.03854265 Spanish_Murcia
0.03856090 Spanish_Alacant
0.03907631 Swiss_Italian
0.03969831 Spanish_Valencia

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta6
0.01904939 French_Auvergne
0.01968952 French_Provence
0.01995916 Swiss_French
0.02105256 Swiss_German
0.02177145 French_Occitanie
0.02492888 French_Alsace
0.02528657 French_Nord
0.02581992 French_Paris
0.02640627 Spanish_Penedes
0.02746219 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02757521 Italian_Northeast
0.02759525 Spanish_Girona
0.02808651 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02852465 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02906956 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02926201 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02926524 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02958164 Spanish_Lleida
0.02980157 Belgian
0.03149961 Italian_Veneto
0.03171394 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03193505 Spanish_Baleares
0.03214224 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03396051 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03400079 Spanish_Pirineu

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta7
0.03379343 French_Provence
0.03573518 Swiss_French
0.03648071 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03650005 Spanish_Girona
0.03721418 Spanish_Baleares
0.03787574 Italian_Northeast
0.03792336 Italian_Veneto
0.03815154 Spanish_Penedes
0.03909217 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03937152 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03960910 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03983298 French_Auvergne
0.04171941 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04273034 Spanish_Lleida
0.04309338 Spanish_Castello
0.04322440 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04326849 French_Occitanie
0.04363735 Swiss_Italian
0.04373774 Italian_Bergamo
0.04415621 French_Paris
0.04415835 Spanish_Soria
0.04536025 Spanish_Alacant
0.04556447 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04608710 Spanish_Pirineu
0.04626171 Portuguese

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta8
0.02817211 Swiss_French
0.03148689 French_Provence
0.03150587 Spanish_Penedes
0.03185714 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03188239 Spanish_Girona
0.03190584 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03243548 French_Auvergne
0.03259718 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03326257 Italian_Northeast
0.03397985 Spanish_Baleares
0.03409316 Italian_Veneto
0.03474902 Spanish_Lleida
0.03492782 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03493961 Spanish_Castello
0.03532682 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03620924 Italian_Bergamo
0.03767010 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03784507 French_Occitanie
0.03849674 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03885339 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03925402 Spanish_Soria
0.03929170 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03936916 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04076559 Spanish_Valencia
0.04094837 Spanish_Alacant

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta9
0.02444469 Swiss_French
0.02766485 French_Auvergne
0.03015124 French_Provence
0.03033184 French_Occitanie
0.03033966 Spanish_Penedes
0.03170998 Spanish_Girona
0.03239637 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03242053 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03299920 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03341140 Swiss_German
0.03380029 French_Paris
0.03414679 Spanish_Lleida
0.03429173 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03595622 Spanish_Castello
0.03651786 French_Nord
0.03668214 Italian_Northeast
0.03693035 Spanish_Baleares
0.03747689 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03771134 French_Alsace
0.03792988 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03803743 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03839254 Spanish_Soria
0.03900946 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03904347 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03917085 Spanish_Aragon

I've removed the average from the list of the sources, but indeed there's a great regional variation. There are Spaniard-like samples, Northern Italian like samples, Southern French like, Central French like and even very Northern French shifted sample (for one).

It's not surprising, and I expected that to be honest, the average is probably "fucked up".

SharpFork

04-05-2020, 11:53 PM

Distances to different Aostan samples

I've removed the average from the list of the sources, but indeed there's a great regional variation. There are Spaniard-like samples, Northern Italian like samples, Southern French like, Central French like and even very Northern French shifted sample (for one).
Isn't there always variation? I'm surprised by how much variation there is in individual samples in any given region despite regional averages being quite consistent when compared with one another.

Samnium

04-05-2020, 11:55 PM

Isn't there always variation? I'm surprised by how much variation there is despite regional average being quite consistent when compare.

Honestly I expected entirely to find Southern, Central and even Northern French like samples aside of more Northern Italian one, but I didn't expected to find Spaniard like samples. It's almost unbelievable. I know that some Piedmontese can score almost like Spaniards, but damn Aostans...

So even in a tiny region like Val d'Aosta you find that variation. Probably because of the geography, a very rugged territory.

Token

04-06-2020, 12:01 AM

Honestly I expected entirely to find Southern, Central and even Northern French like samples aside of more Northern Italian one, but I didn't expected to find Spaniard like samples. It's almost unbelievable. I know that some Piedmontese can score almost like Spaniards, but damn Aostans...

So even in a tiny region like Val d'Aosta you find that. Probably because of the geography, a very rugged territory.

Baleares is very close to Southern French, there isn't much difference between Baleares and Provence. All of these Aostans seems to have French admixture and most are basically French.

Samnium

04-06-2020, 12:06 AM

Baleares is very close to Southern French, there isn't much difference between Baleares and Provence. All of these Aostans seems to have French admixture and most are basically French.

Yeah but these samples are really Spaniard shifted because you see lot of Spaniard regions coming before even French_Auvergne.

Otherwise I do agree, most of them are French genetically, I don't know if I might find the location of these, putting them on a map would be even more useful.

Ethel

04-06-2020, 12:10 AM

Broken how?
What's a Trivenetian?

They're plotting with Tuscans and south of Ligurians. I guess these samples must be from Val Borbera or another Ligurian-speaking community in Piedmont region. There's only three Swiss Italian samples and one of them is very outlying, and a single Ligurian sample.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692777219772121169/696511186052841542/newplot7.png

Trivenetians are NE Italians except for South Tyroleans who are an exotic bunch lying there

Vid Flumina

04-06-2020, 12:10 AM

I've always thought about areas that are close to Piedmonte (close to Ivrea area, at the beginning of the valley) being much more italian, and others that are near the border, NW part of the valley being really French like.

The precedent average had only two samples, but one was clearly Northern French leaning, and the other Northern Italian "shifted".

For Swiss French, I don't know from where have been taken the samples but if anything I would say that they are between Central France (like Auvergne) and Swiss Germans genetically rather than with Provence or whatever, Swiss France cover from Aosta Valley to areas that are at 1h from Bale, I don't think that all the region would look the same definitely.

Piedmontese between Ivrea and Aosta Valley are already almost indistinguishable from Aostans, and much closer to them than to average Lombard.

And just like Aostans, they don't really look French (see comments):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278101-Piedmontese-from-Ivrea

PCA definitely shows some variation however none of the Aostan samples is really close to Northern French (new Pas-de-Calais + Seine-Maritime samples), though a couple of Swiss French - probably from Fribourg or Biel/Bienne area - seem to go in that direction:

https://i.imgur.com/GqtMnjS.png

*I marked the two old samples as Italian_Aosta_Valley_OLD, they are quite close to each other

Vid Flumina

04-06-2020, 12:12 AM

What is your ancestry if i may ask?

SW Piedmont and Eastern Veneto - distant Aostan (6.25%)

Token

04-06-2020, 12:16 AM

SW Piedmont and Eastern Veneto - distant Aostan (6.25%)
Interesting, you are so northern shifted that i thought you were half Piedmontese half Swiss or something like that.

Samnium

04-06-2020, 12:21 AM

Piedmontese between Ivrea and Aosta Valley are already almost indistinguishable from Aostans, and much closer to them than to average Lombard.

And just like Aostans, they don't really look French (see comments):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278101-Piedmontese-from-Ivrea

PCA definitely shows some variation however none of the Aostan samples is really close to Northern French (new Pas-de-Calais + Seine-Maritime samples), though a couple of Swiss French - probably from Fribourg or Biel/Bienne area - seem to go in that direction:

https://i.imgur.com/GqtMnjS.png

*I marked the two old samples as Italian_Aosta_Valley_OLD, they are quite close to each other

In reality only one sample has more a "Northern French" leaning, I should have precised :

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta2
0.03381309 Swiss_French
0.03406528 French_Paris
0.03424609 French_Provence
0.03725977 French_Occitanie
0.03740705 French_Auvergne
0.03764071 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03777348 French_Alsace
0.03785739 Swiss_German
0.03845292 French_Nord
0.03893071 Belgian
0.04170651 Spanish_Girona
0.04193880 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04275771 Spanish_Lleida
0.04296402 Italian_Northeast
0.04304233 Spanish_Penedes
0.04323421 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04388761 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04411843 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04485453 Spanish_Baleares
0.04526187 Spanish_Castello
0.04593852 Italian_Veneto
0.04622830 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04625454 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04672511 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04680632 Spanish_Cataluna

For Swiss French, I would like to have the location of the samples as well (I don't know if Davidski have them), however Bienne/Biel is barely Swiss France, or proper Romandy, people there are considered as Swiss Germans.

For Aostans, there are clearly Italian shifted samples, and I definitely think that these are from areas "closer" to Piedmonte.

Piedmontese between Ivrea and Aosta Valley are already almost indistinguishable from Aostans, and much closer to them than to average Lombard.

And just like Aostans, they don't really look French (see comments):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278101-Piedmontese-from-Ivrea

I don't agree, recently I managed to find many pictures from my distant aostan part, and they look indistinguishable from French, now it's the NW part of the valley, very close to France geographically, but phenotypically I didn't noticed any differences with people on the other side of the border. They look very alike.

Vid Flumina

04-06-2020, 12:48 AM

I don't agree, recently I managed to find many pictures from my distant aostan part, and they look indistinguishable from French, now it's the NW part of the valley, very close to France geographically, but phenotypically I didn't noticed any differences with people on the other side of the border. They look very alike.

All Aostans look the same to me, extremely familiar and relatable faces; it's impossible to tell if someone is from lower or upper valley (my Aostan ancestry is from Val di Rhêmes) by phenotype.

On the other hand these savoyards look like regular French to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B0N9Pv_-1E

Same for this guy, no idea if mixed but he would not pass in Aosta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zot6A1F1YKo

Samnium

04-06-2020, 12:53 AM

All Aostan look the same to me, extremely familiar and relatable faces; it's impossible to tell if someone is from lower or upper valley (my Aostan ancestry is from Val di Rhêmes) by phenotype.

On the other hand these savoyards look like regular French to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B0N9Pv_-1E

Same for this guy, no idea if mixed but he would not pass in Aosta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zot6A1F1YKo

We can have different point of view, but really I haven't find noticeable differences phenotypically with French here. And you know I live in Haute-Savoie so I know well the average phenotype.

My aostan ancestry seems to be from Introd.