Is there such a thing as a cheap haplogroup test?

[Albion]

I'am a penny-less student you see,is there any cheap one's, say below £100? ;)

I'm becoming ever more curious as to which I belong to and only have sub-racial associations with certain haplogroups to guestimate at what I could be.

[Loki]

I'am a penny-less student you see,is there any cheap one's, say below £100? ;)

I'm becoming ever more curious as to which I belong to and only have sub-racial associations with certain haplogroups to guestimate at what I could be.

Best thing is to save up and get the whole deal of 23andme. :) It's not that expensive, and sometimes deals come out.

[hajduk]

Try Igenea
http://www.igenea.com/en/

[Transhumanist]

I know Igenea is associated with FTDNA, but FTDNA's 12 marker tests cost $99. If shipping overseas does not offset the difference, that is the cheaper of the two options.

Every so often FTDNA has promotions. The 12 marker Y-DNA tests, if memory serves me correct, during one particular promotion a few months back, were going for $59 USD. It lasted only a couple of days.

I spend most of my money these days testing Assyrian Y-DNA STR markers. I wish more men would test with FTDNA. Women too. Countless opportunities for discovery. One of the few areas where amateurs are AHEAD of the academics. Case in point, the very recent addition of two new R1b lines on the tree at ISOGG (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html). See R1b1a2a1b L277.1 and R1b1a2a1c L584. These two particular additions were in some part thanks to the testing of Y-STR markers of Armenian and Assyrian men at FTDNA.

I have to admit, of course, you get more "bang for your buck" by testing with 23andMe. Y-DNA and mtDNA resolution, however, is FTDNA's big draw.

[Transhumanist]

Here is a post I made on another forum, alerting folks of the FTDNA promotion I referred to in my post above (now expired). You can get an idea of the promotional prices occasionally offered by FTDNA:


FTDNA DNA Day Promotion, Posted 2011-04-14, 13:55
Hopefully some folks will also take advantage of the offers below:

Quote:
DNA Day is April 15th! Starting at 12:00 PM on April 14th, join the celebration!

New customers:
Y-DNA12……. $59
Y-DNA37……. $129
...mtDNA………. $59
Family Finder… $199
Family Finder + Y-DNA12….. $258
Family Finder + mtDNA…….. $258
Family Finder + mtFullSequence + Y-DNA67 …. $657

Upgrades:
Y-DNA12 add-on ….. $59
Y-DNA12 to 37…….. $69
Y-DNA37 to 67…….. $79
Y-DNA12 to 67…….. $148
mtDNA add-on …….. $59
mtFull Sequence upgrade ….. $199

[Scrapple]

I'am a penny-less student you see,is there any cheap one's, say below £100? ;)

I'm becoming ever more curious as to which I belong to and only have sub-racial associations with certain haplogroups to guestimate at what I could be.

If you can hold out until DNA day next April, 23andme has a sale. This April past you just had to pay the $9 subscription fee a month for 12 months.

[Damião de Góis]

I think 23andme is at 99$, which is 68€ and 60£

[Albion]

That at 23andme sounds quite reasonable for £60 I suppose.

[Frederick]

I would also suggest that you save up for a full thing (Y-DNA, mtDNA, aDNA)
Y-DNA alone is quiet... unsatisfying. Specially the aDNA gives long time fun in all kind of projects that analyse it and tries to find clusters. ;)

Y-DNA: passed from father to son. Its the part of the DNA with the program needed to turn a human embryo (female by default) into a male and to develop the male sex organs.

mtDNA: information for the development of female sex organs. Handed from mother to all children. But only doughters pass it on.

aDNA: programm for the construction of all the body parts, that exist in both sexes and is inheritated from all anchestral lineages.

[Osweo]

Upon receiving haplogroup results;
"Ah, heh, no surprise there, then."

A few days later;
"Fuck."

[Damião de Góis]

Upon receiving haplogroup results;
"Ah, heh, no surprise there, then."

A few days later;
"Fuck."

Why was that? Did they change?

[Trog]

The thing about these tests is that for some reason, once you have an analysis, you still can't settle, you want to know even more. I've done FTDNA and 23and me - 2 tests in 2 years. Last one I liked was tribesbydna. And I can't get enough of Polako/Alabama man's charts and stuff.

But anyway, let's have a whip-round for the guy

:mocking:

[Boudica]

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like it :( 23andme is worth it though, and once you have the Data you can send it to people who will do more with it, as Sorcha said.

[Osweo]

Why was that? Did they change?

LoL, no. This was my imaginary chain of events for Albion who started the thread. He'll probably just find out he's some sort of generic R1b-thingy, and that'll be IT. Pointless, really.

[Peasant]

That at 23andme sounds quite reasonable for £60 I suppose.

Costs more like £160 with the compulsary years subscription paid off at once and shipping. (I think)

Ok, I checked: $271 or £164.32

[Frederick]

LoL, no. This was my imaginary chain of events for Albion who started the thread. He'll probably just find out he's some sort of generic R1b-thingy, and that'll be IT. Pointless, really.

Thats exactly what I meant with "Unsatisfying"

You got told you have the same haplogroup like 75% of the English do have. And you say: yeah, I am native! (or whatever) and then... uuuuuh.... and what now?

[Albion]

LoL, no. This was my imaginary chain of events for Albion who started the thread. He'll probably just find out he's some sort of generic R1b-thingy, and that'll be IT. Pointless, really.

Lol, generic British. :D At least it'd be a native R1b hopefully, or failing that a "Germanic" one. I1 or R1a would be interesting or one of the rarer ones. I definitely wouldn't want to be E3b, J, G or anything out of the Med though!


Costs more like £160 with the compulsary years subscription paid off at once and shipping. (I think)

Ok, I checked: $271 or £164.32

Aww... What happened to all those programmes they did at the turn of the millennium like 'Blood of the Vikings' where they did it for free and gave them the results on TV?


You got told you have the same haplogroup like 75% of the English do have. And you say: yeah, I am native! (or whatever) and then... uuuuuh.... and what now?

Yeah, it'd be quite a boring result really, but in England there's a 30% chance you're something else (usually I).

[Damião de Góis]

lol, i'm the most generic R1b type there is. I can't trace it either.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/THq_t3eR6JI/AAAAAAAACjg/ECinYNcEUB8/s1600/s116.jpg

[Frederick]

Yeah, it'd be quite a boring result really, but in England there's a 30% chance you're something else (usually I).

Well, ALL of them are your anchestors if your think about it. Because the Y-DNA represents only 1 lineage from thousands of lineages that contributed to your aDNA.

And statistically you could assume that they match the percentages they have in the population. Because your anchestors will have mated with all kind of Haplogroups that existed in Britain. even the 1% ones. ;)

So, why spend money at all?

[Albion]

So, why spend money at all?

Because it's nice to know.

Is aDNA any better, how does that work?

[Frederick]

Because it's nice to know.

Is aDNA any better, how does that work?

aDNA is autosomal DNA.
Its that part of the DNA that contains all the plans to build the body parts that are existant in both genders. Males and females alike (and since man and woman are euqal for the most part, it contains almost anything that makes you human)

Imagine this: (just an example)

Grandfather mothers side: R1b (you dont get it)
You get 25% of this persons aDNA.

Grandfathers mother: H (you get it)
you get 25% of this persons aDNA

Grandfather fathers side: R1a (you get it)
you get 25% of this persons aDNA

Grandmother fathers side: K (you dont get it)
you get 25% of this persons aDNA.

You see, 4 Grandparents... you get from each of them 25% of their aDNA. But you get only 1 Y-DNA and 1 mtDNA from them.

Also: aDNA is mixable. Y-DNA not.

If your Father was English and your mother was Chinese, you get an English Y-DNA.

But your aDNA is 50% English and 50& Chinese.

or even with 1 Grandparent Russian, 1 GP English, 1GP Subsaharan African and one Grandparent Eskimo... you get that English Y-DNA.

But your aDNA is 25% Russian, 25% English, 25% Subsaharan African and 25% Eskimo.

From my aDNA its possible to say I am German. Its even possible to say that I differ from generic German slightly to the Northeast (based on my Lithuanian Great Great Grandmother). Thats visible in the aDNA.

And this aDNA can be analysed in different ways and they for example can make interesting maps from it like this:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3383/otherk.gif

or this:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6561/pic3xt.jpg

[Albion]

So you're saying Y and mtDNA test are a waste of time and I should just go for the aDNA test?
So aDNA shows the origin of most of your ancestors then?

And what are aDNA classifications like, you don't get told something like:you're R1ba2 - go look for your ancestors in Western Europe but instead they work out the percentage from each place?

[Damião de Góis]

Albion, 23andme is the test that everyone on these forums does and it gets you the whole thing: haplogroups and raw data that you can send to other people so that you can have your autosomal results (McDonald, Eurogenes, Dodecad). I think that if you're spending money on this, it should be on 23andme.

[Frederick]

So you're saying Y and mtDNA test are a waste of time and I should just go for the aDNA test?
So aDNA shows the origin of most of your ancestors then?

And what are aDNA classifications like, you don't get told something like:you're R1ba2 - go look for your ancestors in Western Europe but instead they work out the percentage from each place?

if you buy a 23andMe test, you get your Y-DNA and mtDNA Haplogroups aswell as your aDNA.

Means you get the Y-DNA and mtDNA ANYWAYS in that case.

the aDNA analysis you get from them contains stuff like ..... what risc do you have to get what kind of illness (cancer and the like)....

Are you likely to smoke a lot, if you smoke?

Are you likely to have blue eyes?

Are you likely to be a good sprinter?
Are you a risc person for obesity?
How tall will you probably stand?
Are you lactose tolerant?
etc.

the analysis where you may originate is less good at 23andMe but you can download your rawdata and let it analyse for free with more advanced technologys in free projects.

[Æscwyn]

Edit: Just saw post above which answered my question.

[Osweo]

Start saving. Some people spend more money on beer in a week. :shrug:

You won't find out owt curious like being related or not to me, Barreldriver or Daguerrotype, too. :D It amuses me no end to think that people I've known on these forums for years or months are actually distant cousins of mine.

As for Y chromosomes, SOMETIMES you're lucky, and get a special one like mine - demonstrating likely descent from the High Kings of Ireland... Most don't though!

A few generations back, you have 256 ancestors. Haplogroups only tell you a TINY thing about TWO of them. Worthless waste of money that could be put to summat far more worthwhile.

Autosomal DNA KEEPS paying.

[Albion]

I'll go for the 23andme test then, it sounds the best in testing those three types of DNA.

[Osweo]

By the way, on 23 and me, you can get your girlfriend to do it, and see if you'll have Atlanto-Uebermensch kids, or ugly pale washed out nordlings.

It compares your eye and hair colour alleles and provides likely percentages in theoretical children. :p

[Frederick]

Does 23andme test both yDNA and mtDNA?

Yes.
But they dont do STR for the Y-DNA. thats the main problem with them.

Means, you will get your Haplogroup and all the subclades of it. But you wont get STR Markers wich are needed to tell, if you share a paternal anchestor to someone (or to find STR clusters you may belong to)

FTDNA on the other side, does all tests (including STR) but no medical/traits about the aDNA (but they do aDNA aswell)

Also, FTDNA is much more expensive if you take Y-DNA, mtDNA and Family Finder (aDNA) than the 23andMe package is.

[Sahson]

I know other's have already said some of the things I will be saying, but I'm just going to cover all bases, with my 2 cents.

Y-DNA and MTdna haplogroups only depict a tiny drop in the ocean of your genetic pool(as many others have mentioned). Once you find you out what your Ydna and MTdna is... you're left in a curious nature for about 2 hours. These Haplogroup tags are just really superficial.

I want a DNA test to find out more about my ancestry that census records could not do justice to. It sounds to me you are interested in a similar motive. I'll tell you now, like I said the haplogroup labels are superficial, they will keep you entertained for about 2 hours, looking at research papers to see what people have found about your haplogroups. The reality of it, is your just scratching the surface.

23andme's service is very good, and well worth the money, for about 8 months I have been kept amused in all the services they have provided, throughout the last 4 months, they have made some incredible ground in the health section, suggesting whether you might forget where you left your last anglo-saxon history book, or whether you should watch your cholesterol levels.

With 23andme the money you paid doesn't halt there, you can take your raw dna as so many others have done, and use an array of free services to try and discover more. There's very little to fault with 23andme and for how much it costs.

You will get a global similarity graph, plotting roughly where your ancestors are from, for me it thinks I'm Orcadian.


http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/Capturedcran2011-04-05122403.png

Then McDonald's Graph of origin said I was Dutch. But should I take this seriously, when Frederick, the Prussian German was placed in England by Mcdonald? :D


http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/genome_Gregg_Tomlinson_Bell_Full_20110405001602txt _BGA_3.png

On other tests, like Eurogene's Eu7c I was again placed as a Dutch, or within the Dutch bracket that Frederick drew... Dodecad thought I was Orcadian(95.1% Orcadian;Orkney_1kg sample). As for interprettome, well it thinks I'm a German.


http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/interpret2.png

Then you can see my "per chromosome" overview that frederick posted here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13588&d=1313807555). All of these things are the fringe benefits of 23andme. I payed about AU$200 with the postage and the subscription, and it's been well worth it. As you can see once you have your RAW data all these free projects on the internet starting paying off in the knowledge you get.

As for 23andme's relative finder that can be insightful too. Osweo is apparently my 6th cousin, and I have come across cousins with only German and Swedish heritage that are my 3rd and 4th cousins. However Many Americans like to approach you, and ask about your genealogy.

There's a very good reason why nearly everyone here is on 23andme, and that's because it's one of the best value for money DNA tests.

[Transhumanist]

Lol, generic British. :D At least it'd be a native R1b hopefully, or failing that a "Germanic" one. I1 or R1a would be interesting or one of the rarer ones. I definitely wouldn't want to be E3b, J, G or anything out of the Med though!

Aww... What happened to all those programmes they did at the turn of the millennium like 'Blood of the Vikings' where they did it for free and gave them the results on TV?

Yeah, it'd be quite a boring result really, but in England there's a 30% chance you're something else (usually I).

Albion, although most British and European men are members of subclades downstream of R-M269, its origin, based on what we know, is most likely the same general region as J1/J2, G1/G2, and T1. The Y-DNA paternal ancestors of men who are not a form of R1b, including ones I did not mention above, may have arrived in the British Isles several millennia ago.

Please see the attachment. It is my reply to a man from England on 23andMe, curious about his G1 classification.

The American man with Welsh ancestry, who is in the same G1 category as myself, based on 111 STR markers, has a GD (genetic distance) of 57 with me. This is a tremendous distance. Certainly in the thousands of years. Six millennia, seven millennia. Difficult to say. What is not difficult to say is that it was a heck of a long time ago.

[Scrapple]

Then McDonald's Graph of origin said I was Dutch. But should I take this seriously, when Frederick, the Prussian German was placed in England by Mcdonald? :D

Dr McDonald seems to place people of solely European ancestry mainly based upon their Mid-East %. As you travel East generally Mid-East rises but there is a problem with that assumption since people of NE Euro ancestry as also are naturally low Mid-East as there wasn't much migration from that region going back to Neolithic times. So it assigns NE Euro ancestry to England. That is my take on it anyway, I could of course be wrong but it does explain Frederick's results.

If your ancestry doesn't include NE Euro then he is probably correct. For example in your case you are in the Netherlands and your ancestry according to your profile is English and N German so you being in the Netherlands makes sense as that is in between the two countries.

[Damião de Góis]

McDonald did guess me as spanish, which is accurate enough. But he placed me on southern France on his map. :icon_ask:

[Scrapple]

McDonald did guess me as spanish, which is accurate enough. But he placed me on southern France on his map. :icon_ask:

Well you don't have any NE European ancestry so it is more accurate for you.

To add to my last post. I was looking at a spreadsheet hosted on dna-forums and the Finns all had a negative number for their Mid-East. A Pole had numbers similar to those of British Isles ancestry.

Oh well at least he does it for free.

[Frederick]

Dr McDonalds claimed me 98.5% English and placed me in Kent (southeast England)

Population Finder of FTDNA claims me 94% Orcadian + 6% Middle Eastern

Eurogenes has me clustering with the German cloud.

Dienekes Oracle claims "German" is closest for me.
Its however puzzling why its followed by Scottish and Orcadian, when its mixture mode correctly recognizes an 5% Northeast aboration from German average.

Dienekes "Cluster galore" clustered me of course also with Germans. But the overall size of the cluster was different in different runs.

In one run I was in the same cluster as: White Americans, Irish, Brits, Scandinavians, Germans, Slovenians and Hungarians.
In another run (wich had no Hungarians included) I was in a cluster with Scandinavians, Germans and Slovenians.

And in just another run with Austrians and the Hungarians back again it clustered me into a cluster that contained 70% of the Germans, 50% of the Austrians and 50% of the Hungarians aswell as all the Slovenians.

Then Dienekes once had a run with Celtic, Germanic, Slavic and Baltic speaking members and demanded 2 Clusters.
It neatly put all Celtic and Germanic speakers in one and the Baltic and Slavic speakers into the other cluster. It put me to the Celto-Germanic cluster.

Interpretome puts me into the German cloud, virtually in its center even. (that region overlaps with Austrians, Belgians and British clouds)

[Odoacer]

I definitely wouldn't want to be E3b, J, G or anything out of the Med though!

:tsk:

[Albion]

:tsk:

Sorry mate, I just don't want to be first farmer.

[Frederick]

Sorry mate, I just don't want to be first farmer.

You most likely have first farmer aDNA anyways, because whatever aDNA originally was connected to Y-DNA or mtDNA has now diffused out into the whole country and is no longer connected to people with certain y-DNA or mtDNA.

And technically, ALL lineages are of equal importance.
Carrying the y-DNA of a guy who migrated from the middle east or Anatolia to Britain 7000 years ago, doesnt make you one of them. ;)

[Albion]

You most likely have first farmer aDNA anyways, because whatever aDNA originally was connected to Y-DNA or mtDNA has now diffused out into the whole country and is no longer connected to people with certain y-DNA or mtDNA.

And technically, ALL lineages are of equal importance.
Carrying the y-DNA of a guy who migrated from the middle east or Anatolia to Britain 7000 years ago, doesnt make you one of them. ;)

Ah, I see. I would like to be associated with the Megalith builders, only I think there's the same association with them. On failing that, Germanics.

[Quasimodem]

Frederick...

Doesn't the abbreviation "aDNA" usually mean "ancient DNA", not "autosomal DNA"?

EDIT: A Google search revealed some studies that use it to mean "autosomal DNA", too.