Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Resuts

[Ion Basescul]

Did you decide not to add the self-described Russian from Bender, Transnistria?

He is obviously mixed with Vlachs and maybe something else. Both his Baltic and North Atlantic are too low for an unmixed Russian from Russia.

No, I actually forgot about him. Will add in the next update.

[Ion Basescul]

Update v10
+Siret Valley Csango and Bender Transnistrian Russian

https://i.imgur.com/Ib19iHj.png

[Aspirin]

That person with surname Boichuk, I have a feeling, he is not mixed, and these are normal results for him, because he seems to be Carpathian Rusyn (Hutsul or Boyko).

https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA

[Ion Basescul]

That person with surname Boichuk, I have a feeling, he is not mixed, but these are normal results for him, because he seems to be Carpathian Rusyn (Hutsul or Boyko).

https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA

Finally, here's the map. You never texted it back to me.
If Boichuk is a full Rusyn then I can still keep them around for reference, but just as with the full non-Moldavian/Romanian individuals, they won't be counted in the averages.

[Aspirin]

Finally, here's the map. You never texted it back to me.
If Boichuk is a full Rusyn then I can still keep them around for reference, but just as with the full non-Moldavian/Romanian individuals, they won't be counted in the averages.

Many Carpathian Slavs have such results, I saw and other results from that region, and many have visible Balkan influence (some more, some lesser). For this exist logical historical explanation.

[Aspirin]

Finally, here's the map. You never texted it back to me.
If Boichuk is a full Rusyn then I can still keep them around for reference, but just as with the full non-Moldavian/Romanian individuals, they won't be counted in the averages.

Carpathian Rusyn results:


1.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.37
2 North_Atlantic 28.05
3 West_Med 13.56
4 East_Med 9.61
5 West_Asian 6.71
6 Red_Sea 2.15
7 Siberian 1.4
8 South_Asian 1.22
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.31
11 Sub-Saharan 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 2.16
2 Moldavian 5.12
3 Hungarian 5.86
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.37
5 South_Polish 6.86
6 Ukrainian 7.66
7 East_German 9.49
8 Austrian 10.04
9 Serbian 10.12
10 Polish 10.32
11 Southwest_Russian 11.4
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.92
13 Russian_Smolensk 12.63
14 Estonian_Polish 13.09
15 Belorussian 13.63
16 Romanian 14.11
17 Kargopol_Russian 15.36
18 Southwest_Finnish 15.51
19 Bulgarian 16.34
20 Estonian 17.23

2.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 38.33
2 North_Atlantic 25.02
3 West_Med 14.59
4 East_Med 8.75
5 West_Asian 6.9
6 Siberian 2.02
7 Red_Sea 1.9
8 East_Asian 1.1
9 Amerindian 0.51
10 South_Asian 0.5
11 Oceanian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.6
2 Moldavian 5.32
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 5.47
4 Ukrainian 6.58
5 South_Polish 7.34
6 Hungarian 9.11
7 Polish 10.08
8 Southwest_Russian 10.13
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.67
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.73
11 Serbian 11.88
12 Estonian_Polish 12.12
13 East_German 12.43
14 Belorussian 13.02
15 Austrian 13.16
16 Kargopol_Russian 13.84
17 Romanian 15.33
18 Erzya 15.61
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.6
20 Estonian 16.91

3.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.15
2 North_Atlantic 27.47
3 West_Med 15.53
4 East_Med 10.63
5 West_Asian 4.92
6 Red_Sea 3.25
7 South_Asian 1.36
8 Siberian 0.95
9 East_Asian 0.55
10 Sub-Saharan 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.75
2 Moldavian 5.58
3 Hungarian 6.67
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.59
5 Serbian 9.09
6 South_Polish 9.21
7 Ukrainian 9.71
8 East_German 10.03
9 Austrian 10.29
10 Polish 12.34
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Southwest_Russian 13.61
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.24
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.64
15 Estonian_Polish 14.92
16 Bulgarian 15.2
17 Belorussian 15.53
18 Southwest_Finnish 17.35
19 Kargopol_Russian 17.45
20 West_German 18.02

4.

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Croatian @ 6,860456
2 Moldavian @ 7,886959
3 Hungarian @ 8,974471
4 Serbian @ 9,469107
5 South_Polish @ 12,745112
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12,862446
7 Ukrainian @ 13,268209
8 Romanian @ 13,403067
9 Austrian @ 13,759909
10 East_German @ 14,04709
11 Bulgarian @ 15,384614
12 Polish @ 16,578473
13 Southwest_Russian @ 16,859848
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17,684521
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 18,862002
16 Estonian_Polish @ 18,94036
17 Belorussian @ 19,403739
18 West_German @ 21,725138
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 21,87295
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 22,250612

5.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.91
2 North_Atlantic 26.73
3 West_Med 15.6
4 East_Med 11.7
5 West_Asian 5.36
6 Sub-Saharan 1.09
7 South_Asian 1
8 Amerindian 0.6

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.98
2 Moldavian 6.35
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.91
4 South_Polish 8.2
5 Ukrainian 8.22
6 Hungarian 8.35
7 Serbian 10.96
8 Polish 11.23
9 East_German 11.59
10 Southwest_Russian 11.92
11 Austrian 12.23
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.56
13 Russian_Smolensk 13.34
14 Estonian_Polish 13.49
15 Belorussian 14.18
16 Romanian 14.45
17 Bulgarian 16.21
18 Kargopol_Russian 16.4
19 Southwest_Finnish 17.44
20 Estonian 18.18

6.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.65
2 North_Atlantic 24.52
3 West_Med 14.67
4 East_Med 12.23
5 West_Asian 2.83
6 South_Asian 1.57
7 Siberian 1.36
8 Amerindian 0.91
9 Red_Sea 0.71
10 Oceanian 0.45
11 Northeast_African 0.07
12 East_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 6.98
2 Ukrainian 7.8
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.95
4 Moldavian 8.86
5 South_Polish 8.88
6 Southwest_Russian 10.38
7 Polish 10.91
8 Hungarian 11.48
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.57
10 Estonian_Polish 11.77
11 Russian_Smolensk 12.1
12 Belorussian 12.62
13 Serbian 13.82
14 Kargopol_Russian 14.49
15 East_German 14.65
16 Austrian 15.55
17 Erzya 16.17
18 Lithuanian 16.84
19 Estonian 16.93
20 Romanian 17.03

[Ion Basescul]

Carpathian Rusyn results:


1.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.37
2 North_Atlantic 28.05
3 West_Med 13.56
4 East_Med 9.61
5 West_Asian 6.71
6 Red_Sea 2.15
7 Siberian 1.4
8 South_Asian 1.22
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.31
11 Sub-Saharan 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 2.16
2 Moldavian 5.12
3 Hungarian 5.86
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.37
5 South_Polish 6.86
6 Ukrainian 7.66
7 East_German 9.49
8 Austrian 10.04
9 Serbian 10.12
10 Polish 10.32
11 Southwest_Russian 11.4
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.92
13 Russian_Smolensk 12.63
14 Estonian_Polish 13.09
15 Belorussian 13.63
16 Romanian 14.11
17 Kargopol_Russian 15.36
18 Southwest_Finnish 15.51
19 Bulgarian 16.34
20 Estonian 17.23

2.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 38.33
2 North_Atlantic 25.02
3 West_Med 14.59
4 East_Med 8.75
5 West_Asian 6.9
6 Siberian 2.02
7 Red_Sea 1.9
8 East_Asian 1.1
9 Amerindian 0.51
10 South_Asian 0.5
11 Oceanian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.6
2 Moldavian 5.32
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 5.47
4 Ukrainian 6.58
5 South_Polish 7.34
6 Hungarian 9.11
7 Polish 10.08
8 Southwest_Russian 10.13
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.67
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.73
11 Serbian 11.88
12 Estonian_Polish 12.12
13 East_German 12.43
14 Belorussian 13.02
15 Austrian 13.16
16 Kargopol_Russian 13.84
17 Romanian 15.33
18 Erzya 15.61
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.6
20 Estonian 16.91

3.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.15
2 North_Atlantic 27.47
3 West_Med 15.53
4 East_Med 10.63
5 West_Asian 4.92
6 Red_Sea 3.25
7 South_Asian 1.36
8 Siberian 0.95
9 East_Asian 0.55
10 Sub-Saharan 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.75
2 Moldavian 5.58
3 Hungarian 6.67
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.59
5 Serbian 9.09
6 South_Polish 9.21
7 Ukrainian 9.71
8 East_German 10.03
9 Austrian 10.29
10 Polish 12.34
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Southwest_Russian 13.61
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.24
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.64
15 Estonian_Polish 14.92
16 Bulgarian 15.2
17 Belorussian 15.53
18 Southwest_Finnish 17.35
19 Kargopol_Russian 17.45
20 West_German 18.02

4.

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Croatian @ 6,860456
2 Moldavian @ 7,886959
3 Hungarian @ 8,974471
4 Serbian @ 9,469107
5 South_Polish @ 12,745112
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12,862446
7 Ukrainian @ 13,268209
8 Romanian @ 13,403067
9 Austrian @ 13,759909
10 East_German @ 14,04709
11 Bulgarian @ 15,384614
12 Polish @ 16,578473
13 Southwest_Russian @ 16,859848
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17,684521
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 18,862002
16 Estonian_Polish @ 18,94036
17 Belorussian @ 19,403739
18 West_German @ 21,725138
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 21,87295
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 22,250612

5.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.91
2 North_Atlantic 26.73
3 West_Med 15.6
4 East_Med 11.7
5 West_Asian 5.36
6 Sub-Saharan 1.09
7 South_Asian 1
8 Amerindian 0.6

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.98
2 Moldavian 6.35
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.91
4 South_Polish 8.2
5 Ukrainian 8.22
6 Hungarian 8.35
7 Serbian 10.96
8 Polish 11.23
9 East_German 11.59
10 Southwest_Russian 11.92
11 Austrian 12.23
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.56
13 Russian_Smolensk 13.34
14 Estonian_Polish 13.49
15 Belorussian 14.18
16 Romanian 14.45
17 Bulgarian 16.21
18 Kargopol_Russian 16.4
19 Southwest_Finnish 17.44
20 Estonian 18.18

6.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.65
2 North_Atlantic 24.52
3 West_Med 14.67
4 East_Med 12.23
5 West_Asian 2.83
6 South_Asian 1.57
7 Siberian 1.36
8 Amerindian 0.91
9 Red_Sea 0.71
10 Oceanian 0.45
11 Northeast_African 0.07
12 East_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 6.98
2 Ukrainian 7.8
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.95
4 Moldavian 8.86
5 South_Polish 8.88
6 Southwest_Russian 10.38
7 Polish 10.91
8 Hungarian 11.48
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.57
10 Estonian_Polish 11.77
11 Russian_Smolensk 12.1
12 Belorussian 12.62
13 Serbian 13.82
14 Kargopol_Russian 14.49
15 East_German 14.65
16 Austrian 15.55
17 Erzya 16.17
18 Lithuanian 16.84
19 Estonian 16.93
20 Romanian 17.03


Thanks, Ukrainians range from roughly 43% to 47% Baltic, so those are definitely mixed. Not sure about those who are between 40-43%, but those under 40% definitely have some recent minority genes in them.

[Aspirin]

Thanks, Ukrainians range from roughly 43% to 47% Baltic, so those are definitely mixed. Not sure about those who are between 40-43%, but those under 40% definitely have some recent minority genes in them.

Is not recent, is old, from Middle Ages (13-15th centuries). These type of results are specific only for Carpathian region, for local highlanders.

[Ion Basescul]

Is not recent, is old, from Middle Ages (13-15th centuries). These type of results are specific only for Carpathian region, for local highlanders.

I see, so Ukrainians have another genetic substrate, which is specific to the mountainous region.

[Leto]

I see, so Ukrainians have another genetic substrate, which is specific to the mountainous region.
The Ukrainian state was tailored from several totally different regions historically speaking. So that shouldn't be a surprise.

[Aspirin]

I see, so Ukrainians have another genetic substrate, which is specific to the mountainous region.

Yes, other Ukrainians with such results are mostly from the South, from steppe regions (Novorossiya), but their Balkan influence is new, from Balkan colonists.

[Leto]

Yes, other Ukrainians with such results are mostly from the South, from steppe regions (Novorossiya), but their Balkan influence is new, from Balkan colonists.
70% of Ukraine's population live east of Vinnytsa and they are much more like Russians.

[Aspirin]

70% of Ukraine's population live east of Vinnytsa and they are much more like Russians.

Yes, but in southern regions, close to Black Sea, you can find such outliers, because of colonisation of those lands by people of different background (mostly of East Slavic stock, but some Balkanites too, including some Moldavians).

[Leto]

Yes, but in southern regions, close to Black Sea, you can find such outliers, because of colonisation of those lands by people of different background (mostly of East Slavic stock, but some Balkanites too, including some Moldavians).
Yes, true. Pontic Greeks and Bulgarians come to mind too.

[Dušan]

Serbs also settled in today Ukraine in 18th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/New_serbia_slavo_serbia.png

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Serbs also settled in today Ukraine in 18th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/New_serbia_slavo_serbia.png

It seems that prior to the colonization, there were a few Poles and Moldavians which were ordered to go back to their native lands in New Serbia. Then, Serbs moved in (quite a few from Vojvodina with even some Romanians from Banat) but the page mentions that it was Moldavians making up the majority of the population.

"Because of the large number of Moldavian settlers, the largest ethnic group in the province in 1757 were not Serbs, but Moldavians.[1] In 1757, the population of New Serbia numbered 5,482 inhabitants, including:[2]

75.33% Moldavians
11.56% Serbs
13.11% others
Settlements"

[Dušan]

It seems that prior to the colonization, there were a few Poles and Moldavians which were ordered to go back to their native lands in New Serbia. Then, Serbs moved in (quite a few from Vojvodina with even some Romanians from Banat) but the page mentions that it was Moldavians making up the majority of the population.

"Because of the large number of Moldavian settlers, the largest ethnic group in the province in 1757 were not Serbs, but Moldavians.[1] In 1757, the population of New Serbia numbered 5,482 inhabitants, including:[2]

75.33% Moldavians
11.56% Serbs
13.11% others
Settlements"

Yes, Serbs and Moldavians lived together there, with Moldavian majority.

[Ion Basescul]

I've got two interesting cases from R. Moldova, which I am not sure whether they are mixed or not, because I only have their paternal surnames.


For the 1st case, the paternal surname itself is dubious. It doesn't mean anything in Romanian, so its root probably isn't related to something connected to Moldovans/Romanians.
The surname is very rare in Moldova, literally limited to one village mainly, but in its exact form doesn't exist anywhere else. Derivatives of it, with Russian inspired suffixes, exist in Uzbekistan and Russia, but are also extremely rare.
He scores exactly like my mom.

The 2nd case has an obviously Romanain surname, so at least paternally this individual should be Moldovan/Romanian. This surname is more popular in Romania, but I know that the person is from R. Moldova due to his email "sanyoc...".
The closest person from our list to him is Daos, who is 3/4 Ukrainian and 1/4 Moldovan.

[Aspirin]

I've got two interesting cases from R. Moldova, which I am not sure whether they are mixed or not, because I only have their paternal surnames.


For the 1st case, the paternal surname itself is dubious. It doesn't mean anything in Romanian, so its root probably isn't related to something connected to Moldovans/Romanians.
The surname is very rare in Moldova, literally limited to one village mainly, but in its exact form doesn't exist anywhere else. Derivatives of it, with Russian inspired suffixes, exist in Uzbekistan and Russia, but are also extremely rare.
He scores exactly like my mom.

The 2nd case has an obviously Romanain surname, so at least paternally this individual should be Moldovan/Romanian. This surname is more popular in Romania, but I know that the person is from R. Moldova due to his email "sanyoc...".
The closest person from our list to him is Daos, who is 3/4 Ukrainian and 1/4 Moldovan.


Do you know from where they are? With such results they can be mixed.

[Ion Basescul]

Do you know from where they are? With such results they can be mixed.

I don't know about the 2nd person, but definitely from R. Moldova judging by the email address. Casata and forebears hint at Singerei, but obviously that's just the paternal side.

[Nurzat]

...


Thanks, she is not from Wallachia though. I'll add to the other table.

I've replaced the initial RO and MD in the source with the unmixed_average on your sheets:

Romania_Muntenia,21.74,24.52,16.95,11.73,19.26,2.3 1,0.82,0.55,1,0.45,0.34,0.26,0.07
Romania_Oltenia,23.83,25.02,17.91,10.68,17.72,1.81 ,0.67,0.85,0.60,0.40,0.37,0.09,0.06
Moldavia,23.83,28.02,16.76,9.92,15.75,1.88,0.55,0. 59,1.39,0.58,0.45,0.15,0.12


based on the results posted by Leto:

Distance to: seya
3.09122953 Moldavia
4.17001199 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.49553111 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.64296687 Serbian_new
4.74205652 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.74621955 Serb_Croatia
5.09506669 Montenegrin
5.34985047 Romania_Oltenia
5.58154101 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.73466651 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.77171105 Macedonian
5.89811834 Romania_Muntenia


then, in spite of my low Baltic (31%) I am still modeled as half Ukrainian with the 3 (RO_Olt, RO_Mun, MD) in the source, nothing removed from source, I mean (Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Belgorod + South_Polish + Estonian + Southeast_English is 54.8):

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.3391% / 0.33906266
45.6 Ukrainian
21.4 Greek_Northern-Thrace
6.2 Sardinian
4.6 French_Basque
4.2 Tabassaran
3.6 Balkar
3.0 Ukrainian_Belgorod
2.8 South_Polish
2.0 Estonian
1.8 Bulgarian_Ruse
1.4 Georgian_imereti
1.4 Southeast_English

[Nurzat]

all three from the spreadsheet - they don't seem to get any strong one population, it's a diarrhea of a result for each:


this guy who has more Baltic than me (almost 34%) gets modeled like this:

Target: BT
Distance: 0.3666% / 0.36659857
27.2 Macedonian_Central
17.8 Belorussian
14.6 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
10.0 Macedonian_Southwest
8.8 Latvian
6.0 Cossacks_Kuban
4.8 Erzya
2.4 Russian_Smolensk
2.0 Sardinian
1.6 Turk_Kardzhali-South-Plain
1.4 Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
1.0 South_Polish

others:

Target: NT
Distance: 0.3426% / 0.34264928
22.0 Greek_Western-Macedonia
19.6 Bulgarian_Northwest
13.4 Cossacks_Kuban
9.8 Pomak_Central-Macedonia
6.8 Belorussian
6.0 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.6 Laz
5.2 Turk_Kardzhali-Alevi
3.4 Macedonian_Greece
3.0 Latvian
1.2 North_Ossetian
1.0 Norwegian


Target: VS
Distance: 0.1375% / 0.13753587
14.4 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
11.2 Cossacks_Kuban
10.4 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
6.2 Estonian
5.8 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.6 Bulgarian_Ruse
5.2 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
5.0 Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
4.6 Macedonian_Central
4.2 Latvian
4.0 Bulgarian_Plovdiv
3.6 Sardinian
3.2 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
3.2 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
2.4 Pomak_Xanthi
2.2 Serb_North-Macedonia
2.0 Southwest_Finnish
1.4 Selkup
1.0 Greek_Central-Macedonia

[Ion Basescul]

I've replaced the initial RO and MD in the source with the unmixed_average on your sheets:

Romania_Muntenia,21.74,24.52,16.95,11.73,19.26,2.3 1,0.82,0.55,1,0.45,0.34,0.26,0.07
Romania_Oltenia,23.83,25.02,17.91,10.68,17.72,1.81 ,0.67,0.85,0.60,0.40,0.37,0.09,0.06
Moldavia,23.83,28.02,16.76,9.92,15.75,1.88,0.55,0. 59,1.39,0.58,0.45,0.15,0.12


based on the results posted by Leto:

Distance to: seya
3.09122953 Moldavia
4.17001199 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.49553111 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.64296687 Serbian_new
4.74205652 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.74621955 Serb_Croatia
5.09506669 Montenegrin
5.34985047 Romania_Oltenia
5.58154101 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.73466651 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.77171105 Macedonian
5.89811834 Romania_Muntenia


then, in spite of my low Baltic (31%) I am still modeled as half Ukrainian with the 3 (RO_Olt, RO_Mun, MD) in the source, nothing removed from source, I mean (Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Belgorod + South_Polish + Estonian + Southeast_English is 54.8):

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.3391% / 0.33906266
45.6 Ukrainian
21.4 Greek_Northern-Thrace
6.2 Sardinian
4.6 French_Basque
4.2 Tabassaran
3.6 Balkar
3.0 Ukrainian_Belgorod
2.8 South_Polish
2.0 Estonian
1.8 Bulgarian_Ruse
1.4 Georgian_imereti
1.4 Southeast_English

See the guys Boychuk and Tsurkan Lazareva. They are allegedly Rusyns/Hutsuls, so maybe you'll get modelled better with them as your Ukrainian side.

[Ion Basescul]

To make it easier for you, the average of them two:
Rusyn_Ukraine,28.11,36.96,13.035,5.08,12.055,1.05, 0,0,2.695,0.52,0,0,0.48

[Aspirin]

See the guys Boychuk and Tsurkan Lazareva. They are allegedly Rusyns/Hutsuls, so maybe you'll get modelled better with them as your Ukrainian side.

Tsurkan is not Rusyn, this is for sure. But Boychuk yes, is a high probability to be from Carpathian region.

[Ion Basescul]

Tsurkan is not Rusyn, this is for sure. But Boychuk yes, is a high probability to be from Carpathian region.

I thought we stopped at her being very similar to a Rusyn, despite her paternal family name. Perhaps just half West Ukrainian then or something like that.

[Nurzat]

See the guys Boychuk and Tsurkan Lazareva. They are allegedly Rusyns/Hutsuls, so maybe you'll get modelled better with them as your Ukrainian side.

I am ok with how this models me, it seems quite accurate - it keeps my Ukrainian half and for the Romanian half it breaks it down into Balkanic, Caucasian and Sardinian, sounds right.

when I add Boiciuc (funnily my dad's paternal line is of Boyko origin, our village is mixed Hutsul/Rusyn/Boyko, told you Germans were majority until WW1 and some Gorals got lost in the village too over time, including my dad's mom's mom):

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.3510% / 0.35103336
41.4 Ukrainian
17.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
11.6 Boiciuc
6.2 Sardinian
5.2 French_Basque
5.2 Ukrainian_Belgorod
3.8 Tabassaran
3.0 Georgian_imereti
2.6 Balkar
1.4 South_Polish

[Ion Basescul]

I am ok with how this models me, it seems quite accurate - it keeps my Ukrainian half and for the Romanian half it breaks it down into Balkanic, Caucasian and Sardinian, sounds right.

when I add Boiciuc (funnily my dad's paternal line is of Boyko origin, our village is mixed Hutsul/Rusyn/Boyko, told you Germans were majority until WW1 and some Gorals got lost in the village too over time, including my dad's mom's mom):

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.3510% / 0.35103336
41.4 Ukrainian
17.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
11.6 Boiciuc
6.2 Sardinian
5.2 French_Basque
5.2 Ukrainian_Belgorod
3.8 Tabassaran
3.0 Georgian_imereti
2.6 Balkar
1.4 South_Polish


Your Romanian side is not accurate at all. It looks Aromanian/Greek. It's very South-shifted for Wallachia, let alone for Vaslui.

Your Vaslui genes are just too strong and also we need more samples.

Target: Nurzat_1/2Vaslui_1/2Ukrainian
Distance: 382.9294% / 3.82929376
73.2 Romania_Vaslui_average
26.8 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.0 Rusyn_Ukraine
0.0 Ukrainian
0.0 Ukrainian_Belgorod

Romania_Vaslui_average,25.96,27.62,16.23,9.46,15.9 0,1.49,0.18,0.09,2.01,0.49,0.23,0.12,0.24

[Aspirin]

I thought we stopped at her being very similar to a Rusyn, despite her paternal family name. Perhaps just half West Ukrainian then or something like that.

Yes, but she, bassed on her surname is not Rusyn, she seem to be from Chernivtsi, Odessa or Nikolaev oblast.

https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A6%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD

[Nurzat]

Your Romanian side is not accurate at all. It looks Aromanian/Greek. It's very South-shifted for Wallachia, let alone for Vaslui.

Your Vaslui genes are just too strong and also we need more samples.

Target: Nurzat_1/2Vaslui_1/2Ukrainian
Distance: 382.9294% / 3.82929376
73.2 Romania_Vaslui_average
26.8 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.0 Rusyn_Ukraine
0.0 Ukrainian
0.0 Ukrainian_Belgorod

Romania_Vaslui_average,25.96,27.62,16.23,9.46,15.9 0,1.49,0.18,0.09,2.01,0.49,0.23,0.12,0.24

I've noticed all Romanians get modeled on K13 with Vlach-like populations (northern Greece, Macedonia) and for the Slavic-Vlach mix they get northwest Bulgaria, Bulgaria Dupnitsa, like that. in the end I think it reads it well as Vlach-East Slavic more recent mix than the ones in the West Balkans.

also, some of my Ukrainian % on this is certainly from the northeast Romanian side, and this balances the Vlach %.

[Ion Basescul]

Yes, but she, bassed on her surname is not Rusyn, she seem to be from Chernivtsi, Odessa or Nikolaev oblast.

https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A6%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD

Probably Chernivtsi and surrounding regions, because she is married to a guy with an obvious West Ukrainian forename and surname.

[Aspirin]

Probably Chernivtsi and surrounding regions, because she is married to a guy with an obvious West Ukrainian forename and surname.

Can be. But surnames of Western Ukrainian origin exist in big number in other places too, including Odessa and Nikolaev.

[Nurzat]

Can be. But surnames of Western Ukrainian origin exist in big number in other places too, including Odessa and Nikolaev.

noice avatar. you give me strong Russkie vibes

[Aspirin]

noice avatar. you give me strong Russkie vibes

That's because of my shaved baby face. :D

[Ion Basescul]

noice avatar. you give me strong Russkie vibes

Looks more Romanian/Moldovan than me or anyone else in my family and relatives. I'm not even trying to diss or troll.

[Ion Basescul]

Regarding the update that I'll post this evening, for those 2 guys who score like Moldovan/Romanians mixed with Ukrainians, here's their K13.
The Moldavian average from Eurogenes K13 is basically North Moldovan-like (33% Baltic), but Oracles favour Ukrainians and Russians in mixed mode for them.

First person (the one with the strange surname from Edinet):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.99
2 North_Atlantic 20.49
3 West_Med 14.24
4 East_Med 12.58
5 West_Asian 10.49
6 Siberian 2.42
7 Red_Sea 1.15
8 Amerindian 0.33
9 Sub-Saharan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.93
2 Croatian 7.41
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.14
4 Ukrainian 11.01
5 Serbian 11.71
6 South_Polish 11.99
7 Hungarian 12.38
8 Southwest_Russian 12.62
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.83
10 Romanian 13.67
11 Bulgarian 14.58
12 Polish 14.58
13 Russian_Smolensk 15.23
14 Estonian_Polish 15.67
15 Kargopol_Russian 16.49
16 Belorussian 16.57
17 Erzya 16.75
18 East_German 16.98
19 Austrian 17.02
20 Tatar 18.07

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.6% Bulgarian + 46.4% Erzya @ 2.92
2 58.3% Erzya + 41.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.66
3 71.1% Southwest_Russian + 28.9% Central_Greek @ 3.85
4 78.2% Southwest_Russian + 21.8% Cyprian @ 3.87
5 55.4% Romanian + 44.6% Erzya @ 3.94
6 53.9% Southwest_Russian + 46.1% Bulgarian @ 4.03
7 64.5% Erzya + 35.5% Central_Greek @ 4.04
8 70.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 29.2% Central_Greek @ 4.06
9 65.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 34.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.08
10 74.1% Southwest_Russian + 25.9% South_Italian @ 4.09
11 65.6% Southwest_Russian + 34.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.1
12 80.8% Ukrainian + 19.2% Cyprian @ 4.1
13 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% Bulgarian @ 4.12
14 72.1% Southwest_Russian + 27.9% East_Sicilian @ 4.16
15 82.3% Ukrainian + 17.7% Assyrian @ 4.17
16 73.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 26.2% South_Italian @ 4.21
17 83% Ukrainian + 17% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.23
18 82.2% Ukrainian + 17.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.23
19 53.3% Bulgarian + 46.7% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.26
20 71.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.2% East_Sicilian @ 4.26


Second person (old Wallachian surname, in R. Moldova it's most popular in Singerei district):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.17
2 North_Atlantic 22.51
3 West_Med 13.01
4 East_Med 11.58
5 West_Asian 7.82
6 East_Asian 2.28
7 South_Asian 1.85
8 Red_Sea 1.68
9 Siberian 1.66
10 Northeast_African 0.44

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.05
2 Croatian 5.53
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.44
4 Ukrainian 9.32
5 South_Polish 10
6 Hungarian 10.3
7 Serbian 10.9
8 Southwest_Russian 11.63
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.95
10 Polish 12.84
11 Romanian 13.73
12 Russian_Smolensk 13.86
13 Estonian_Polish 14.24
14 East_German 14.72
15 Austrian 14.94
16 Belorussian 15.02
17 Bulgarian 15.11
18 Kargopol_Russian 15.58
19 Erzya 16.58
20 Tatar 17.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.6% Ukrainian + 15.4% Samaritan @ 2.32
2 84.9% Ukrainian + 15.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.32
3 83.2% Ukrainian + 16.8% Cyprian @ 2.54
4 83.6% Ukrainian + 16.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.6
5 83.6% Ukrainian + 16.4% Syrian @ 2.61
6 84.2% Ukrainian + 15.8% Jordanian @ 2.75
7 84.7% Ukrainian + 15.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.76
8 84.5% Ukrainian + 15.5% Palestinian @ 2.77
9 85.1% Ukrainian + 14.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.92
10 67.6% Southwest_Russian + 32.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.93
11 85% Ukrainian + 15% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.99
12 73.8% Southwest_Russian + 26.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.08
13 78.6% Ukrainian + 21.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.12
14 84.5% Ukrainian + 15.5% Bedouin @ 3.13
15 84.7% Ukrainian + 15.3% Assyrian @ 3.13
16 75.7% Southwest_Russian + 24.3% South_Italian @ 3.14
17 67.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 32.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.16
18 77.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 22.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.16
19 73.1% Southwest_Russian + 26.9% Central_Greek @ 3.16
20 56.9% Southwest_Russian + 43.1% Bulgarian @ 3.17

[Jana]

Aspirin passes in Croatia as native.

[Ion Basescul]

Update v11 (Raw)

https://i.imgur.com/0iYkD2l.png

[Ion Basescul]

Update v11 (Raw)

https://i.imgur.com/0iYkD2l.png

The Obrinteschi person is from Timis, so will be removed from this table.

[Ion Basescul]

Update v11 (Final)

https://i.imgur.com/FOQ9cGn.png

[Leto]

Aspirin passes in Croatia as native.
Nice fellow. I was wrong about him but now changed my mind.

[Ion Basescul]

From Suceava (will be in next update)


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.46
2 North_Atlantic 26.9
3 West_Med 17.28
4 East_Med 14.68
5 West_Asian 9.68
6 Siberian 2.21
7 Amerindian 1.16
8 Oceanian 0.35
9 Sub-Saharan 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.52
2 Romanian 5.37
3 Moldavian 7.5
4 Bulgarian 7.88
5 Hungarian 8.67
6 Croatian 9.68
7 Austrian 11.57
8 East_German 13.12
9 Greek_Thessaly 16.07
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.13
11 West_German 16.19
12 South_Polish 16.5
13 Ukrainian 17.25
14 North_Italian 17.37
15 French 17.61
16 South_Dutch 17.71
17 Tuscan 19.17
18 Polish 20.24
19 Portuguese 20.34
20 Spanish_Galicia 20.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.7% Romanian + 16.3% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.74
2 63.5% Bulgarian + 36.5% East_German @ 2.78
3 52.7% Bulgarian + 47.3% Hungarian @ 2.88
4 64.4% Romanian + 35.6% Hungarian @ 2.89
5 75.9% Bulgarian + 24.1% North_Swedish @ 2.92
6 74% Romanian + 26% East_German @ 2.94
7 85.6% Romanian + 14.4% Finnish @ 3.05
8 84% Romanian + 16% North_Swedish @ 3.06
9 71.4% Moldavian + 28.6% North_Italian @ 3.07
10 76.6% Bulgarian + 23.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.07
11 85.9% Romanian + 14.1% Estonian @ 3.07
12 97.6% Serbian + 2.4% West_Greenlander @ 3.13
13 97.9% Serbian + 2.1% East_Greenlander @ 3.14
14 78.8% Romanian + 21.2% South_Polish @ 3.14
15 98% Serbian + 2% Chukchi @ 3.16
16 73.6% Moldavian + 26.4% Tuscan @ 3.18
17 60.7% Bulgarian + 39.3% Austrian @ 3.2
18 98.2% Serbian + 1.8% Koryak @ 3.2
19 97.8% Serbian + 2.2% Selkup @ 3.21
20 98.5% Serbian + 1.5% North_Amerindian @ 3.21

[Aspirin]

From Suceava

These people from Suceava (Bukovina), based on their results, kinda remove the myth about heavily Slavic admixed people here.

[Ion Basescul]

These people from Suceava (Bukovina), based on their results, kinda remove the myth about heavily Slavic admixed people here.

Yeah, Botosani pulls closer to East Slavs with the samples that I have so far.

[Ion Basescul]

Jo reggelt intensifies

https://i.imgur.com/nAataCV.png

[Ion Basescul]

Jo reggelt intensifies

https://i.imgur.com/nAataCV.png

Observations:

My mom's South R. Moldovan ancestry is being interpreted as a mix of Transylvanian and Bulgarian, probably due to our R. Moldova average being too North-shifted at the moment. If I had the Stefan Voda samples, the algorithm might have picked those for the Moldovan side.
Dad gets modelled as 20% Ukrainian, which we don't know of in the family, but his paternal village has a Russian name afterall, so who knows what happened there historically.
Daos is modelled as 30% Romanian, when it should be 25%, but that could also be because he inherited more Romanian segments.
Nurzat joins me as both Hungarian and Tatar. I guess Hungarian simply appears in both us, due to Romanian and Ukrainian genes mixing and creating an average that looks intermediary between Romanians and Ukrainians.
ZmeyGorynych is Northern-shifted for his region, but we already knew that.

[Leto]

Jo reggelt intensifies

https://i.imgur.com/nAataCV.png
Daos is almost exactly that in reality. He said his grandfather was Romanian.

[Aspirin]

These are K13 results of all nine samples who formed the Eurogenes K15 average.



Three ones who are close to Eurogenes K15 average:

1.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.8
2 North_Atlantic 23.34
3 West_Med 14.87
4 East_Med 13.08
5 West_Asian 9.75
6 Red_Sea 2
7 Siberian 1.5
8 Amerindian 1.15
9 South_Asian 1.14
10 East_Asian 0.69
11 Sub-Saharan 0.57
12 Oceanian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.09
2 Serbian 5.96
3 Croatian 6.36
4 Romanian 8.25
5 Hungarian 8.8
6 Bulgarian 9.95
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.2
8 Austrian 13.19
9 South_Polish 13.43
10 Ukrainian 13.53
11 East_German 13.92
12 Southwest_Russian 16.44
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.66
14 Polish 16.77
15 Russian_Smolensk 18.49
16 Greek_Thessaly 18.66
17 Estonian_Polish 19.01
18 Tatar 19.26
19 West_German 19.72
20 Belorussian 19.73

2.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.38
2 North_Atlantic 25.76
3 West_Med 14.65
4 East_Med 11.03
5 West_Asian 8.61
6 Red_Sea 1.75
7 Oceanian 1.62
8 East_Asian 1.16
9 Siberian 0.95
10 Sub-Saharan 0.69
11 South_Asian 0.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 2.46
2 Croatian 3.85
3 Hungarian 6.87
4 Serbian 7.14
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.68
6 South_Polish 10.63
7 Romanian 10.71
8 Austrian 11.04
9 Ukrainian 11.07
10 East_German 11.4
11 Bulgarian 12.69
12 Polish 14.1
13 Southwest_Russian 14.49
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.73
15 Russian_Smolensk 16.13
16 Estonian_Polish 16.71
17 Belorussian 17.31
18 West_German 18.24
19 Kargopol_Russian 18.45
20 Southwest_Finnish 19.4

3.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.37
2 North_Atlantic 23.19
3 West_Med 14.95
4 East_Med 13.16
5 West_Asian 9.85
6 Siberian 1.91
7 Red_Sea 1.89
8 South_Asian 1.2
9 Amerindian 1.16
10 Sub-Saharan 0.84
11 East_Asian 0.37
12 Oceanian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.45
2 Serbian 5.88
3 Croatian 6.81
4 Romanian 7.97
5 Hungarian 9.01
6 Bulgarian 9.67
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.61
8 Austrian 13.35
9 South_Polish 13.84
10 Ukrainian 13.95
11 East_German 14.14
12 Southwest_Russian 16.82
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.07
14 Polish 17.19
15 Greek_Thessaly 18.34
16 Russian_Smolensk 18.92
17 Tatar 19.06
18 Estonian_Polish 19.41
19 West_German 19.72
20 Belorussian 20.14

Two south-shifted ones with very similar results:

4.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.07
2 North_Atlantic 19.26
3 East_Med 19.17
4 West_Med 16.76
5 West_Asian 10.77
6 East_Asian 1.55
7 Oceanian 0.87
8 Amerindian 0.73
9 Red_Sea 0.73
10 Siberian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 6.22
2 Romanian 7.09
3 Serbian 8.29
4 Moldavian 9.65
5 Croatian 12.58
6 Greek_Thessaly 14.22
7 Hungarian 14.7
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.23
9 Austrian 18.64
10 Ukrainian 19.19
11 South_Polish 19.39
12 East_German 19.82
13 Central_Greek 20.88
14 Tuscan 21.02
15 North_Italian 21.4
16 Italian_Abruzzo 21.4
17 Southwest_Russian 21.53
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 21.7
19 East_Sicilian 22.21
20 Polish 22.62

5.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.48
2 North_Atlantic 19.73
3 East_Med 18.86
4 West_Med 16.5
5 West_Asian 10.45
6 East_Asian 1.51
7 Oceanian 0.95
8 Red_Sea 0.85
9 Amerindian 0.67

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 6.52
2 Romanian 7.11
3 Serbian 7.91
4 Moldavian 9.1
5 Croatian 11.95
6 Hungarian 14.11
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.69
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.6
9 Austrian 18.11
10 Ukrainian 18.56
11 South_Polish 18.73
12 East_German 19.25
13 Southwest_Russian 20.92
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 21.11
15 Tuscan 21.29
16 Central_Greek 21.41
17 North_Italian 21.52
18 Italian_Abruzzo 21.83
19 Polish 21.97
20 East_Sicilian 22.72

One north-shifted:

6.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.05
2 North_Atlantic 24.44
3 West_Med 15.39
4 West_Asian 10.94
5 East_Med 7.53
6 South_Asian 2.03
7 Siberian 1.21
8 Amerindian 1.19
9 Red_Sea 0.73
10 Oceanian 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.75
2 Croatian 4.28
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.68
4 Ukrainian 9.15
5 Hungarian 9.22
6 South_Polish 9.53
7 Serbian 11.06
8 Polish 12.35
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.46
10 Southwest_Russian 12.53
11 East_German 12.57
12 Austrian 12.98
13 Romanian 13.86
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.11
15 Estonian_Polish 14.91
16 Bulgarian 15.66
17 Kargopol_Russian 15.84
18 Belorussian 15.88
19 Erzya 17.39
20 Tatar 18.39

Outliers:

7.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45.34
2 North_Atlantic 31.58
3 West_Med 6.36
4 West_Asian 6.06
5 East_Med 4.52
6 Siberian 2.48
7 South_Asian 1.13
8 Amerindian 0.87
9 Northeast_African 0.85
10 Oceanian 0.81

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 4.73
2 Belorussian 5.13
3 Russian_Smolensk 5.3
4 Estonian_Polish 5.75
5 Southwest_Russian 5.8
6 South_Polish 5.87
7 Ukrainian_Belgorod 6.38
8 Ukrainian 6.62
9 Estonian 6.8
10 Finnish 7.27
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.41
12 Southwest_Finnish 8.19
13 Kargopol_Russian 8.37
14 Lithuanian 8.82
15 East_Finnish 9.31
16 Erzya 11.56
17 Croatian 12.79
18 North_Swedish 14.38
19 Hungarian 14.46
20 East_German 15.05

8.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.16
2 North_Atlantic 22.5
3 West_Med 11.38
4 West_Asian 8.35
5 East_Med 7.16
6 Siberian 1.84
7 Sub-Saharan 1.34
8 Oceanian 0.71
9 Amerindian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 4.81
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 5.05
3 Ukrainian 6.03
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.53
5 Russian_Smolensk 7.38
6 Estonian_Polish 7.71
7 Polish 8.37
8 South_Polish 8.42
9 Belorussian 8.89
10 Kargopol_Russian 9.12
11 Erzya 9.36
12 Croatian 10.74
13 Lithuanian 11.62
14 Moldavian 12.34
15 Estonian 13.36
16 East_Finnish 14.8
17 Finnish 15.11
18 Hungarian 15.88
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.82
20 East_German 18.41

9.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 39.93
2 North_Atlantic 22.31
3 West_Med 9.28
4 South_Asian 9.1 :laugh:
5 West_Asian 7.66
6 East_Med 7.37
7 Amerindian 1.17
8 Sub-Saharan 1.13
9 Red_Sea 1.02
10 Siberian 0.98
11 Oceanian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.14
2 Ukrainian 9.84
3 Southwest_Russian 10.42
4 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.45
5 Croatian 10.48
6 South_Polish 10.74
7 Moldavian 11.06 :laugh:
8 Polish 11.94
9 Russian_Smolensk 12.04
10 Estonian_Polish 12.49
11 Kargopol_Russian 12.77
12 Belorussian 13.42
13 Erzya 14
14 Hungarian 14.24
15 Lithuanian 16.55
16 East_German 17.05
17 Estonian 17.16
18 Serbian 17.18
19 East_Finnish 17.82
20 Finnish 17.9




How they plot on K15 map.

https://sun9-8.userapi.com/c855416/v855416847/faea2/8PdjPuUApT8.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

These are K13 results of all nine samples who formed the Eurogenes K15 average.



Do you have the kit numbers by any chance?

[Aspirin]

Do you have the kit numbers by any chance?

CM2678489 Moldavian
ZW2326107 Moldavian_G2a1
CZ7344575 moldavian_V02612
JA8090639 moldavian_V13693
DN1116786 moldavian_V28645
JR6490623 moldavian_V44175
GG5842270 moldavian_V46055
QY8192067 moldavian_V48759
JR2297171 moldavian_V49937

[Leto]

I bet the exact same data was used for all E-genes runs. And if they are the basis for the Moldovan reference, obviously the results will be severely skewed.

[Bosniensis]

All Romanians have DNA like Bosniensis.

Entire Romania has similar DNA to me...

[Dick]

All Romanians have DNA like Bosniensis.

Entire Romania has similar DNA to me...
But you don’t look Romanian and are not related to Romanians . It’s not gedmatch components that count but IBD sharing among people

[Leto]

But you don’t look Romanian and are not related to Romanians . It’s not gedmatch components that count but IBD sharing among people
Why do you think he can't pass?

[Dick]

Why do you think he can't pass?
I can tell he is South Slav from a plane. Romanians just look different from us. You have to remember we descend from a close knit tribe from early Middle Ages with same ydna bottlenecks. This bottleneck effect can be seen in Bosnia specifically

[Nurzat]

But you don’t look Romanian and are not related to Romanians . It’s not gedmatch components that count but IBD sharing among people

he already is honorary Romanian for all the struggle xD IBD matters most, of course. but most people in the region would pass in the neighbouring countriesm since the gradient of looks is not abruptly ending/diminishing at the border, it crosses the borders. of course, such long faces are really uncommon in Romanians. Romanians are short-faced (small eyes-to-mouth distance and high % of the face width from this distance).

[Leto]

I can tell he is South Slav from a plane. Romanians just look different from us. You have to remember we descend from a close knit tribe from early Middle Ages with same ydna bottlenecks. This bottleneck effect can be seen in Bosnia specifically
A few people here said Bosniaks look distinctly Muslim even though they're autosomally almsot the same as their Christian neighbors.

[Leto]

he already is honorary Romanian for all the struggle xD IBD matters most, of course. but most people in the region would pass in the neighbouring countriesm since the gradient of looks is not abruptly ending/diminishing at the border, it crosses the borders. of course, such long faces are really uncommon in Romanians. Romanians are short-faced (small eyes-to-mouth distance and high % of the face width from this distance).
How different are Romanians from Italians? Do they frequently pass as Italianos in Italy? I know mamaliga is basically the same as polenta xD
Румыны - мамалыжники.

[Nurzat]

How different are Romanians from Italians? Do they frequently pass as Italianos in Italy? I know mamaliga is basically the same as polenta xD
Румыны - мамалыжники.

no, they almost never pass as Italians. but it's also the clothing style maybe that makes Romanians so obviously non-Western. you rarely get the chance to guess a Romanian by the face because you usually instantly already guess him by the clothes/style xD

[Jana]

How different are Romanians from Italians? Do they frequently pass as Italianos in Italy? I know mamaliga is basically the same as polenta xD
Румыны - мамалыжники.

Lot of Romanians I saw in Transylvania looked Italian or Greek to me. They were visibly more Mddish/southern Euro looking than people in Croatia taken as a whole.
Similar stature too (quite short and thin). But, there was minority of types that would look very off in Italy, those with Russian/Baltid or Tatar like look.

[Ion Basescul]

CM2678489 Moldavian
ZW2326107 Moldavian_G2a1
CZ7344575 moldavian_V02612
JA8090639 moldavian_V13693
DN1116786 moldavian_V28645
JR6490623 moldavian_V44175
GG5842270 moldavian_V46055
QY8192067 moldavian_V48759
JR2297171 moldavian_V49937

Thanks, I'll see if I can find more about them.


These are also on G25, but classified as outliers.

CZ7344575 moldavian_V02612
JA8090639 moldavian_V13693
DN1116786 moldavian_V28645
JR6490623 moldavian_V44175
GG5842270 moldavian_V46055

Moldovan_o:Moldovan_V02612,0.124067,0.123895,0.043 746,0.03553,0.040315,0.006693,0.013161,0.009692,-0.007976,-0.005285,-0.00406,-0.006594,0.012785,0.012248,-0.011536,-0.002519,0.005867,-0.002914,0.010559,0.005503,-0.003743,-0.00136,0.003944,0.006989,0
Moldovan_o:Moldovan_V13693,0.121791,0.122879,0.067 505,0.055233,0.033237,0.014781,0.00799,0.01223,-0.00859,-0.022415,-0.002436,-0.003447,0.017096,0.009221,-0.023208,0.011138,0.020601,-0.003801,0.002891,0.002751,-0.007237,-0.005564,0.01442,0.002289,0.000359
Moldovan_o:Moldovan_V28645,0.1161,0.108662,0.03808 9,0.0646,0.019388,0.025379,0.0047,0.008769,0.00552 2,-0.012574,-0.005196,-0.008992,0.010852,0.023809,-0.0095,-0.005967,-0.006258,0.000253,0.00176,-5e-04,0.002995,-0.004946,0.004437,-0.002289,-0.001916
Moldovan_o:Moldovan_V44175,0.130897,0.116786,0.071 653,0.068799,0.035391,0.022032,0.00752,0.010384,-0.0045,-0.028247,-0.000162,-0.008093,0.020367,0.020368,-0.012758,0.00358,0.002217,0.003167,0.003268,-0.006628,-0.003868,-0.001607,0.005546,0.002651,0.000958
Moldovan_o:Moldovan_V46055,0.12862,0.123895,0.0512 88,0.041021,0.02739,0.015339,0.005875,0.006,-0.002045,-0.007654,-0.003573,-0.002997,0.008176,0.01156,-0.015879,0.012066,0.025686,0.000127,0.002137,0.007 504,-0.011355,-0.004946,0.003328,-0.005302,-0.001796

[Leto]

no, they almost never pass as Italians. but it's also the clothing style maybe that makes Romanians so obviously non-Western. you rarely get the chance to guess a Romanian by the face because you usually instantly already guess him by the clothes/style xD
That sucks. I feel bad for Italia, was hoping that it wouldn't be changed profoundly by Rumano mass immigration. I thought they should be blending in with natives racially thus assimilating quickly. Romanian speakers can learn Italian or Spanish in 1-2 years easily.

[Leto]

Lot of Romanians I saw in Transylvania looked Italian or Greek to me. They were visibly more Mddish/southern Euro looking than people in Croatia taken as a whole.
Similar stature too (quite short and thin). But, there was minority of types that would look very off in Italy, those with Russian/Baltid or Tatar like look.
Well, they're not supposed to look like us considering their genetics. They're like half Russian half Ashkenazi on Gedmatch.

[Nurzat]

That sucks. I feel bad for Italia, was hoping that it wouldn't be changed profoundly by Rumano mass immigration. I thought they should be blending in with natives racially thus assimilating quickly. Romanian speakers can learn Italian or Spanish in 1-2 years easily.

but many Romanians assimilate greatly now. I have as reference the times I went to Italy for summer, over 10 years ago. then Romanians were only cheap workforce, now they've infiltrated also some office or institution jobs (nurses, even some doctors, corporate workers etc). but these are usually the kids of the initial immigrants. usually they came to Italy during late childhood so they are still fully Romanian as well (native speakers and can totally understand culture)

[Leto]

but many Romanians assimilate greatly now. I have as reference the times I went to Italy for summer, over 10 years ago. then Romanians were only cheap workforce, now they've infiltrated also some office or institution jobs (nurses, even some doctors, corporate workers etc). but these are usually the kids of the initial immigrants. usually they came to Italy during late childhood so they are still fully Romanian as well (native speakers and can totally understand culture)
Well, if Tziganes are overrepresented among them, I can fully understand why they don't pass as Italians.

[Aspirin]

Average K13 for Moldavians from Republic based on these 15 samples.

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28,82
2 North_Atlantic 23.90
3 West_Med 16,52
4 East_Med 14.90
5 West_Asian 10.09
6 Red_Sea 1,80
7 Siberian 1.47
8 Amerindian 0.68
9 South_Asian 0.53
10 East_Asian 0.57
11 Sub-Saharan 0.10
12 NE_African 0,14
13 Oceanian 0.41

[Nurzat]

Well, if Tziganes are overrepresented among them, I can fully understand why they don't pass as Italians.

I'm not counting the Gypsies. they follow a totally different path in the West. also they're very mobile and will be where they can get money faster easier, now a lot of them are in UK or Germany. Italy doesn't get a relevant share of Gypsies from Romania, they used to and anyway those were living in nomad camps, totally different path in Italy than usual Romanians, no matter how low class some of these Romanians were

[Leto]

I can tell he is South Slav from a plane. Romanians just look different from us. You have to remember we descend from a close knit tribe from early Middle Ages with same ydna bottlenecks. This bottleneck effect can be seen in Bosnia specifically


A few people here said Bosniaks look distinctly Muslim even though they're autosomally almsot the same as their Christian neighbors.
This guy for ex
https://i.redd.it/m1f50ugpf3p41.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

ZW2326107 Moldavian_G2a1


I found a new kit through this one. Close distance and he is most likely from R. Moldova. However, I can't trace the guy exactly, but according to the forename+surname and Facebook, all 4 potential candidates are from R. Moldova.
One was born in Floresti and the rest in Chisinau (2 of them live abroad).
I emailed the guy just in case. Hopefully he'll answer.

North_Atlantic 22.13 Pct
Baltic 23.89 Pct
West_Med 18.68 Pct
West_Asian 16.35 Pct
East_Med 12.57 Pct
Red_Sea 1.83 Pct
South_Asian 1.01 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 2.83 Pct
Amerindian 0.58 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.13 Pct

[Ion Basescul]

CZ7344575 moldavian_V02612


This guy is weird, because he has a 85cM relative, meaning a 3rd cousin, with perfect Engllish/Irish results.
That's a lot, because for example, the closest match that I have is a guy from Cahul on MyHeritage (surname Puls), and even then the shared segments are only 44cM. For my mom it's 63cM with the same person. My dad matches another person as his number one, a certain Cogilnicean from R. Moldova (with other surnames Cociug, Golban Gorgos) at 83cM. Unfortunately he doesn't have a family tree, so I don't know the district.

But the point that I'm trying to make is that 85cM is a lot, so the ancestors of this guy were recently mixed with some kind of Anglo.

https://i.imgur.com/xobbUBr.png

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.83
2 Baltic 22.25
3 West_Med 13.87
4 East_Med 6.37
5 Red_Sea 2.68
6 West_Asian 2.56
7 Amerindian 1.22
8 Sub-Saharan 0.74
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Northeast_African 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 3.62
2 Southwest_English 4.9
3 Orcadian 5.42
4 South_Dutch 6.16
5 West_Scottish 6.22
6 North_Dutch 6.39
7 Irish 6.45
8 Danish 6.87
9 West_German 7.5
10 North_German 7.79
11 Norwegian 8.62
12 French 10.06
13 Swedish 10.47
14 Austrian 13.72
15 East_German 14.51
16 North_Swedish 15.68
17 Spanish_Cataluna 16.94
18 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 17.82
19 Spanish_Galicia 18.22
20 Hungarian 18.24

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.7% Southeast_English + 3.3% Saudi @ 2.85
2 95.6% Southeast_English + 4.4% Algerian @ 2.86
3 96.8% Southeast_English + 3.2% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.88
4 95.8% Southeast_English + 4.2% Moroccan @ 2.89
5 95.7% Southeast_English + 4.3% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.89
6 95.8% Southeast_English + 4.2% Tunisian @ 2.9
7 96.6% Southeast_English + 3.4% Egyptian @ 3.01
8 96.9% Southeast_English + 3.1% Bedouin @ 3.11
9 91.2% Southeast_English + 8.8% Portuguese @ 3.17
10 91.1% Southeast_English + 8.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.17
11 90.9% Southeast_English + 9.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.17
12 97.7% Southeast_English + 2.3% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 3.19
13 92.1% Southeast_English + 7.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.19
14 97.8% Southeast_English + 2.2% Ethiopian_Amhara @ 3.19
15 94.7% Southwest_English + 5.3% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.2
16 91.9% Southeast_English + 8.1% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.2
17 96.7% Southeast_English + 3.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.21
18 97.2% Southeast_English + 2.8% Palestinian @ 3.21
19 85.1% Southeast_English + 14.9% French @ 3.21
20 96.7% Southeast_English + 3.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.22

[Aspirin]

I found a new kit through this one. Close distance and he is most likely from R. Moldova. However, I can't trace the guy exactly, but according to the forename+surname and Facebook, all 4 potential candidates are from R. Moldova.
One was born in Floresti and the rest in Chisinau (2 of them live abroad).
I emailed the guy just in case. Hopefully he'll answer.

North_Atlantic 22.13 Pct
Baltic 23.89 Pct
West_Med 18.68 Pct
West_Asian 16.35 Pct
East_Med 12.57 Pct
Red_Sea 1.83 Pct
South_Asian 1.01 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 2.83 Pct
Amerindian 0.58 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.13 Pct

If this one is from Republic, clearly have ancestry from the south with so high West Asian, weird results.

[Leto]

But the point that I'm trying to make is that 85cM is a lot, so the ancestors of this guy were recently mixed with some kind of Anglo.

Maybe both have some kind of Jewish ancestry? Unless that's a false match altogether.

[Ion Basescul]

JA8090639 moldavian_V13693
DN1116786 moldavian_V28645


JA8090639 is pure Russian, the one with 46% Baltic.
DN1116786, the one with 39% Baltic and 9% South Asian, has a full Roma as the closest match and then Ukrainians. With his results he is probably 1-2/4 Roma and the rest Ukrainian.

[Ion Basescul]

If this one is from Republic, clearly have ancestry from the south with so high West Asian, weird results.

Yes, most likely from the South if it's from here.

[Ion Basescul]

Maybe both have some kind of Jewish ancestry? Unless that's a false match altogether.

85cM is a lot for the results that he's getting first of all, but secondly Jews have a strong founder effect, so he should have been covered in Jewish matches with the same length of shared segments, which is not the case.

[Ion Basescul]

JR6490623 moldavian_V44175


This one, who gets 45% Baltic, has a 83cM match, so 3rd cousin, in West Ukraine.
His second closest match, at 37.5cM is also Ukrainian and so are those at 20cM.

His 3rd cousin


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45.76
2 North_Atlantic 22.34
3 West_Med 12.83
4 West_Asian 6.78
5 East_Med 6.76
6 South_Asian 2.69
7 East_Asian 1.47
8 Sub-Saharan 0.86
9 Siberian 0.21
10 Amerindian 0.14
11 Red_Sea 0.11
12 Oceanian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 5.74
2 Southwest_Russian 6.16
3 Ukrainian_Belgorod 6.26
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.49
5 Russian_Smolensk 7.67
6 Estonian_Polish 7.93
7 Polish 8.3
8 South_Polish 8.38
9 Belorussian 9.29
10 Kargopol_Russian 10.22
11 Croatian 10.31
12 Erzya 10.98
13 Lithuanian 11.92
14 Moldavian 12.13
15 Estonian 13.92
16 Hungarian 15.76
17 East_Finnish 15.78
18 Finnish 16.01
19 Southwest_Finnish 17.28
20 East_German 17.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 7.7% Sardinian @ 4.3
2 93.2% Southwest_Russian + 6.8% Sardinian @ 4.69
3 82.8% Lithuanian + 17.2% Cyprian @ 5.02
4 74.6% Lithuanian + 25.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.09
5 68% Lithuanian + 32% Bulgarian @ 5.11
6 50.5% Lithuanian + 49.5% Moldavian @ 5.12
7 78.2% Lithuanian + 21.8% Central_Greek @ 5.14
8 93.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 6.4% Moroccan @ 5.15
9 76.6% Southwest_Russian + 23.4% Moldavian @ 5.16
10 93.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 6.4% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.17
11 75.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 24.3% Moldavian @ 5.18
12 93.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 6.3% Tunisian @ 5.21
13 59.2% Ukrainian + 40.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.22
14 90.5% Estonian_Polish + 9.5% Armenian @ 5.24
15 80.1% Lithuanian + 19.9% South_Italian @ 5.25
16 93.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 6.3% Algerian @ 5.25
17 78.8% Lithuanian + 21.2% East_Sicilian @ 5.27
18 90.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 9.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.27
19 80.9% Ukrainian + 19.1% Erzya @ 5.27
20 93.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 6.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.28

[Ion Basescul]

GG5842270 moldavian_V46055


The person with 36% Baltic also is related to the same West Ukrainian. The full Moldovan? Ukrainian from above had a relationship of 83cM, while this one of 74cM. Still, that's by far his closest match.
So this guy's family was at a minimum mixed with one Ukrainian very recently.

The surname of the Ukrainian cousin is Kolomiychenko btw. You can see it if you'll search by email.

https://i.imgur.com/gkcuQ6v.png

[Leto]

85cM is a lot for the results that he's getting first of all, but secondly Jews have a strong founder effect, so he should have been covered in Jewish matches with the same length of shared segments, which is not the case.
Then prolly an American with some Romanian ancestry, like 1/4 Romanian for example.

[Aspirin]

Based on all samples from Republic who were posted here, can be observed a clearly invisible line who radically change the results in southern areas compared to the areas northern of this line.

The red line I made based on these results and their geographic location.
https://sun9-10.userapi.com/c206724/v206724344/d7168/lfNWvyYs4xc.jpg

Compare with the ethnic map of the country.
https://sun9-25.userapi.com/c206724/v206724344/d715f/-ZdViFRRtwE.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

Then prolly an American with some Romanian ancestry, like 1/4 Romanian for example.

Yes, I agree with that, because now I have proof. Can't be Romanian from Romania though at this strength of the relationship. 83cM is so much that it's not even from the other side of the country, but very close by, like 50km or so.

[Leto]

Gagauz average

North_Atlantic 19.35
Baltic 23.14
West_Med 17.99
West_Asian 12.57
East_Med 21.48
Red_Sea 2.9
South_Asian 0.52
East_Asian 0.25
Siberian 0.69
Amerindian 0.40
Oceanian 0.64
Northeast_African 0.06
Sub-Saharan 0.00

[Leto]

Yes, I agree with that, because now I have proof.
Proof of what?

[Aspirin]

Guy from the south. I forgot about him. I have all four surnames of his grandparents.


https://i.imgur.com/ZJTofpW.png


Population:

North_Atlantic 20.92 Pct
Baltic 28.56 Pct
West_Med 14.80 Pct
West_Asian 9.67 Pct
East_Med 22.16 Pct
Red_Sea 0.86 Pct
South_Asian 1.64 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.64 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.75 Pct

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.96
2 Romanian 6.65
3 Serbian 8.19
4 Moldavian 11.49
5 Greek_Thessaly 12.97
6 Croatian 14.04
7 Hungarian 14.84
8 Austrian 18.68
9 Tuscan 19.57
10 Central_Greek 19.7
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.81
12 Italian_Abruzzo 19.9
13 East_German 20.1
14 North_Italian 20.44
15 South_Polish 20.46
16 Ukrainian 20.72
17 East_Sicilian 20.83
18 Ashkenazi 20.96
19 West_Sicilian 21.12
20 Southwest_Russian 22.83

[Ion Basescul]

Yes, I agree with that, because now I have proof. Can't be Romanian from Romania though at this strength of the relationship. 83cM is so much that it's not even from the other side of the country, but very close by, like 50km or so.

And here's the proof:

The next kit from R. Moldova that I was looking at, QY8192067, was also matching the same Anglo at 3rd cousin level.
So I dug deeper, by looking him up with the email. There, I found another kit, which is probably a distant cousin of his that he asked to test to research this side of his family.

Surname Aldea

North_Atlantic 19.20 Pct
Baltic 26.97 Pct
West_Med 17.98 Pct
West_Asian 13.72 Pct
East_Med 17.17 Pct
Red_Sea 0.71 Pct
South_Asian 1.21 Pct
East_Asian 0.13 Pct
Siberian 2.11 Pct
Amerindian 0.16 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.65 Pct

Going by the distance that the guy is getting with the 2 Moldovan kits, (QY8192067 - 31% Baltic, 83cM and CZ7344575 - 33% Baltic, 72cM) they are all from the same country first of all and secondly their ancestors lived closely.
At least these 3 guys are ethnic Romanian/Moldovan.

So far we have the following situation.
Confirmed unmixed
ZW2326107 - 31%, close match with a certain Moraru who scores like Cahul and Stefan Voda samples, with a very non-Romanian but popular in R. Moldova forename (whom I emailed to see if he's actually from here)
QY8192067 - 31%
CZ7344575 - 33%

Russian
JA8090639

Ukrainian
JR6490623

Ukrainian mixed
GG5842270 - 36%, 3rd cousin Ukrainian, probably a halfie with a Moldovan
DN1116786 - 39%, Full Ukrainian with likely Roma grandparent

I've still got 2 more kits to look at:
CM2678489
JR2297171

[Aspirin]

Surname Aldea


https://nume.casata.md/index.php?l=ro&action=viewnume&id=687

[Pribislav]

Average K13 for Moldavians from Republic based on these 15 samples.

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28,82
2 North_Atlantic 23.90
3 West_Med 16,52
4 East_Med 14.90
5 West_Asian 10.09
6 Red_Sea 1,80
7 Siberian 1.47
8 Amerindian 0.68
9 South_Asian 0.53
10 East_Asian 0.57
11 Sub-Saharan 0.10
12 NE_African 0,14
13 Oceanian 0.41

That is significant more southern than Moldavian average on Gedmatch. How is this possible?

[Aspirin]

That is significant more southern than Moldavian average on Gedmatch. How is this possible?

Because in that list with unmixed Moldavians exist persons from south of the country (except two) who are very southern, if I will remove them, the results will be visible more northern.

[Ion Basescul]

CM2678489


For this guy, the closest match starts at 22cM, which is ok because not a lot of people from R. Moldova are on GEDmatch. At least this kind of confirms that he's not mixed with East Slavs or is from Romania.



JR2297171


The last guy is also mixed recently with Ukrainians, 63cM match.


Confirmed unmixed
ZW2326107 - 31%, close match with a certain Moraru who scores like Cahul and Stefan Voda samples, with a very non-Romanian but popular in R. Moldova forename (whom I emailed to see if he's actually from here)
QY8192067 - 31%
CZ7344575 - 33%
CM2678489 - 30%

Full Russian
JA8090639 - 46%, no close matches, but lots of Russian matches at average distance - 30cM

Full Ukrainian
JR6490623 - 45% , matches a Ukrainian at 83cM, 3rd cousin

Ukrainian mixed
GG5842270 - 36%, 3rd cousin Ukrainian, 74cM, probably a halfie with a Moldovan
DN1116786 - 39%, Full Ukrainian with likely Roma grandparent, closest match is a full Roma at 48cM, then Ukrainians
JR2297171 - 30% Mixed Ukrainian, 63cM Ukrainian match


I'll add all the samples to our list and those 4 samples will be put in the unmixed category.

[Ion Basescul]

That is significant more southern than Moldavian average on Gedmatch. How is this possible?

Only 4 out of 9 samples that were used to make the average on GEDmatch are full Moldovans.

[Pribislav]

Because in that list with unmixed Moldavians exist persons from south of the country (except two) who are very southern, if I will remove them, the results will be visible more northern.

Serbian woman from central Serbia with similar Baltic, Red_Sea, East_Asian, Amerinian, Oceanian and Northeast_African score as that average.

1 Baltic 28.3
2 North_Atlantic 26.61
3 West_Med 18.06
4 East_Med 16.92
5 West_Asian 6.23
6 Red_Sea 1.57
7 East_Asian 0.96
8 Amerindian 0.58
9 Oceanian 0.42
10 Northeast_African 0.35

[Leto]

Full Russian
JA8090639 - 46%, no close matches, but lots of Russian matches at average distance - 30cM

Looks more like a Ukrainian to me but I don't mind xoxols being called Russians ;) :swl
Is he a Moldovan Russian?

[Ion Basescul]

Gagauz average

North_Atlantic 19.35
Baltic 23.14
West_Med 17.99
West_Asian 12.57
East_Med 21.48
Red_Sea 2.9
South_Asian 0.52
East_Asian 0.25
Siberian 0.69
Amerindian 0.40
Oceanian 0.64
Northeast_African 0.06
Sub-Saharan 0.00

Unfortunately, I don't have the Stefan Voda kits on GEDmatch yet, but they should score pretty closely to the Gagauz, with some exceptions.
Here's how they model on G25.

https://i.imgur.com/mDjHkrv.png

[Ion Basescul]

Looks more like a Ukrainian to me but I don't mind xoxols being called Russians ;) :swl
Is he a Moldovan Russian?

No idea, because all the kits that were provided didn't have names nor emails, but his close matches are Russian.

[Aspirin]

Serbian woman from central Serbia with similar Baltic, Red_Sea, East_Asian, Amerinian, Oceanian and Northeast_African score as that average.

1 Baltic 28.3
2 North_Atlantic 26.61
3 West_Med 18.06
4 East_Med 16.92
5 West_Asian 6.23
6 Red_Sea 1.57
7 East_Asian 0.96
8 Amerindian 0.58
9 Oceanian 0.42
10 Northeast_African 0.35

Do you understand what many people in the south have some visible Bulgarian/Gagauz ancestry? I know people from that region, and some of them have very mixed ancestry. And their southern results very well correlate with presence of these ethnicities in that area. If their ancestry is older, 3-4 generations or more, and they indentify as Moldavians, you cant remove them because of their mixed origins, they will pass as unmixed ones, many have Moldavian surnames, not foreign ones, like the guy Zamaneagra from the list who score high East Med. In that region, based on results, was formed a separate genetic cluster. If in the north were live many Ukrainians you will find people who score 36-38 Baltic, same scenario will see in the southern area, but with the opposite effect.

[Ion Basescul]

Do you understand what many people in the south have some visible Bulgarian/Gagauz ancestry? I know people from that region, and some of them have very mixed ancestry. And their southern results very well correlate with presence of these ethnicities in that area. If their ancestry is older, 3-4 generations or more, and they indentify as Moldavians, you cant remove them because of theit mixed origins, they will pass as unmixed ones, many have Moldavian surnames, not foreign ones, like the guy Zamaneagra from the list who score high East Med. In that region, based on results, was formed a separate genetic cluster. If in the north were live many Ukrainians you will find people who score 36-38 Baltic, same scenario will see in the southern area, but with the opposite effect.

This, who knows how many have mixed with Bugeac minorities in the past. For example, the Puls guy from Cahul that me and my mom are the closest to on MyHeritage has distant German roots. Puls itself is a German surname and we know that some Germans were settled in Transnistria and Bugeac.

And here's a guy (https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/e8i8ba/my_results_gagauzbulgarianromanian_from_moldova/)from Chisinau, but with ancestry in Southern R. Moldova, with Gagauz, Bulgarian and Moldovan ancestry.

He scores only 2.9% Eastern Euro, so his Moldovan ancestry is probably very similar to Gagauz and Bulgarian, because I score 43.5% for example and my profile seems average for the Central region.

[Tommie]

of course, such long faces are really uncommon in Romanians. Romanians are short-faced (small eyes-to-mouth distance and high % of the face width from this distance).
Long faces aren't uncommon, probably in your area short-faced people are more common. Romanians are mesocephalic on average.

[Tommie]

How different are Romanians from Italians? Do they frequently pass as Italianos in Italy? I know mamaliga is basically the same as polenta xD
Румыны - мамалыжники.
Yes, Romanians frequently pass well as Italians. Most are indistinguishable from them if they speak fluently the language.



no, they almost never pass as Italians. but it's also the clothing style maybe that makes Romanians so obviously non-Western. you rarely get the chance to guess a Romanian by the face because you usually instantly already guess him by the clothes/style xD
It's not like Romanians dress like Russian gopniks, even most Russians don't dress like that. :lol:
Actually, from my observations Romanians have a better sense of style than our neighboring Hungarians, who mostly seem like they don't really care how they look like.

[Jana]

Actually, from my observations Romanians have a better sense of style than our neighboring Hungarians, who mostly seem like they don't really care how they look like.

Yes, they do, and I have to admit it's noticeable difference. They dress very tasteful and stylish, both young men and women.

[Ion Basescul]

If anyone's interested (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?319556-Post-the-surnames-and-countries-of-ancestry-of-your-30cM-matches-from-MyHeritage)

[Aspirin]

Too bad Zmey is not here, his presence will be very useful, I don't understand why he was banned.

[Ion Basescul]

Too bad Zmey is not here, his presence will be very useful, I don't understand why he was banned.

He was banned at around the same time as artsi. Maybe it was his alt.

[Aspirin]

He was banned at around the same time as artsi. Maybe it was his alt.

Zmey is not the level of artsi, I now him very well on this forum. He is pro-Romanian by the way, but not so hardcore like you.

[Ion Basescul]

Zmey is not the level of artsi, I now him very well on this forum. He is pro-Romanian by the way, but not so hardcore like you.

I see. I never got to know him, as I rarely came to the forum in the past years.

[Leto]

Zmey Gorynych is permanently banned? What was the reason?

[Ion Basescul]

Stefan Voda kits are in ;).
Thanks to the person who uploaded them.

[Ion Basescul]

https://i.imgur.com/2TW31R4.png

[Leto]

I thought Stefan Voda was a person, lol

The results are almost identical to Gagauz.

[Ion Basescul]

I thought Stefan Voda was a person, lol

The results are almost identical to Gagauz.

Yes, and they are all Romanians/Moldovans from this village


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jf06lCpAjs

By the way, the song in the beginning sounds very Bulgarian, even though it's sung in Romanian. That's not typical. Perhaps there's something to this.

[Leto]

Gagauz are ridiculous people. Why are they obsessed with Russians and the Russian language? They aren't even anywhere close to the Russian border.
I think they should be Romanianized/Moldovanized and become part of the nation they live in.

[Ion Basescul]

Yes, and they are all Romanians/Moldovans from this village


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jf06lCpAjs

By the way, the song in the beginning sounds very Bulgarian, even though it's sung in Romanian. That's not typical. Perhaps there's something to this.

Aspirin, you should listen to the mayor speaking about the history of the village and people from 8:25.

[Aspirin]

By the way, the song in the beginning sounds very Bulgarian, even though it's sung in Romanian. That's not typical. Perhaps there's something to this.

Typical local Moldavian folk music, nothing Bulgarian.

[Ion Basescul]

Gagauz are ridiculous people. Why are they obsessed with Russians and the Russian language? They aren't even anywhere close to the Russian border.
I think they should be Romanianized/Moldovanized and become part of the nation they live in.

You can see their perspective here (https://www.reddit.com/r/moldova/comments/fw0xeb/i_want_to_learn_more_about_gagauzia/).
I personally don't have a problem with them being russophones in their autonomy. All the Gagauz people that I've ever known in Chisinau spoke decent Romanian. They are just not incentivised to use it in the autonomy, since their population is very homogeneous and Russian is native for them. Ironically they received autonomy, but instead of using its benefits to preserve their Turkic language, they started teaching mainly in Russian. The media is also mostly Russian. So they are now in a situation were Gagauz is a dying language, which is kept on life support by Turkish investments.

[Ion Basescul]

Typical local Moldavian folk music, nothing Bulgarian.

For me typical is something akin to Zinaida Julea, but I'm also not very familiar with the folklore.

[Aspirin]

Gagauz are ridiculous people. Why are they obsessed with Russians and the Russian language? They aren't even anywhere close to the Russian border.
I think they should be Romanianized/Moldovanized and become part of the nation they live in.

Too late, most of them are pro-Russian or pro-Turkey, and majority of them speak more Russian than their native language.

[Roy]

Yes, they do, and I have to admit it's noticeable difference. They dress very tasteful and stylish, both young men and women.

What about Poles? I think many dress well but mostly in bigger cities like Warsaw or Wrocław. Elsewhere ... you can even find what we call Faszyn from Raszyn, Raszyn is a village near Warsaw ... and many who don't care either. And it sounds like Russian in English too.


:D

https://d-pt.ppstatic.pl/k/r/1/8b/48/5ac62ccab20ba_p.jpg?1529952485

[Roy]

Too late, most of them are pro-Russian or pro-Turkey, and majority of them speak more Russian than their native language.

What Moldovans think about Transnistria? Do they visit this place at all?

[Leto]

Too late, most of them are pro-Russian or pro-Turkey, and majority of them speak more Russian than their native language.
I wouldn't mind them leaving Moldova for Russia altogether ;)
Better than any fucking Muslims.

But the point is they are genetically almost completely native to the region.

By the way, I think there were some questions in the PMs I sent you some days ago. About the Romanian language in Moldova.

[Aspirin]

For me typical is something akin to Zinaida Julea, but I'm also not very familiar with the folklore.

That is bullshit commercial folklore with roots in Lautar music, peasant music is different, more simplistic and authentic. Especially in today Republic she is still very alive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkHcTPDNQPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_JkRvvOcqc

[Roy]

Too late, most of them are pro-Russian or pro-Turkey, and majority of them speak more Russian than their native language.

What Moldovans think about Transnistria? Do they visit this place at all or want it back? My friends visited this place a couple years ago, according to them it felt like a Soviet heritage park brought to real life.

[Ion Basescul]

What Moldovans think about Transnistria? Do they visit this place at all?

There's no need to visit. Probably half of the working age Transnistrians are every day either in Chisinau or Odessa. There are long queues every morning and afternoon on the Dniester, since they commute to Chisinau for work. Chisinau is like 50km away from Tiraspol.
The conflict is mostly political, as people haven't really been separated.

[Pribislav]

Only 4 out of 9 samples that were used to make the average on GEDmatch are full Moldovans.

I understand.
Real Latin speaking Moldavians without recent Russian/Ukrainian admixture are Romanian like people on average, not Bosniak, Bosnian Serb and Croatian like as Gedmatch average say. Make sense that Moldavian are closer to Romanians than to people who are located hundreds of km from them and speak different language.

[Leto]

There's no need to visit. Probably half of the working age Transnistrians are every day either in Chisinau or Odessa. There are long queues every morning and afternoon on the Dniester, since they commute to Chisinau for work. Chisinau is like 50km away from Tiraspol.
The conflict is mostly political, as people haven't really been separated.
LOL. Then absolutely no reason for that breakaway joke republic to exist. It's not like Russian was banned or purged from the Rep of Moldova. Almost everyone still speaks it, even Aspirin who claims to be both rural and unmixed ;)

[Ion Basescul]

I understand.
Real Latin speaking Moldavians without recent Russian/Ukrainian admixture are Romanian like people, not Bosniak, Bosnian Serb and Croatian like as Gedmatch average say. Make sense that Moldavian are closer to Romanians than to people who are located hundreds of km from them and speak different language.

Yes, but also there is overlap. My closest matches on G25 are Croatians, Bosnians, Slovenes and Hungarians. Same goes for my parents.

On K13, I get the following:


<tbody>
#
Population
Percent


1
Baltic
29.33


2
North_Atlantic
25.27


3
West_Med
15.21


4
East_Med
13.04


5
West_Asian
9.95


6
Siberian
2.85


7
East_Asian
1.83


8
Red_Sea
1.42


9
South_Asian
0.7


10
Oceanian
0.4

</tbody>

Single Population Sharing:


<tbody>
#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Serbian
4.31


2
Moldavian
5.04


3
Romanian
7.02


4
Croatian
7.86


5
Hungarian
8.13


6
Bulgarian
9.24


7
Austrian
11.88


8
East_German
13.07


9
Ukrainian_Lviv
13.8


10
South_Polish
14.54


11
Ukrainian
15.09


12
West_German
17.6


13
Greek_Thessaly
17.77


14
Polish
18.25


15
Southwest_Russian
18.34


16
Ukrainian_Belgorod
18.59


17
South_Dutch
19.05


18
Tatar
19.21


19
French
19.66


20
North_Italian
20.22

</tbody>

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


<tbody>
#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

83.1%
Serbian
+
16.9%
Tatar
@
1.87


2

88%
Serbian
+
12%
Chuvash
@
1.97


3

90.1%
Serbian
+
9.9%
Mari
@
2.25


4

79.3%
Romanian
+
20.7%
East_Finnish
@
2.33


5

76.6%
Romanian
+
23.4%
Kargopol_Russian
@
2.48


6

78.8%
Romanian
+
21.2%
Finnish
@
2.58


7

55.7%
Serbian
+
44.3%
Moldavian
@
2.65


8

87.2%
Serbian
+
12.8%
Erzya
@
2.66


9

61.2%
Ukrainian
+
38.8%
Italian_Abruzzo
@
2.71


10

73.3%
Bulgarian
+
26.7%
Finnish
@
2.73


11

60.5%
Moldavian
+
39.5%
Romanian
@
2.77


12

86.8%
Serbian
+
13.2%
Kargopol_Russian
@
2.82


13

83.8%
Moldavian
+
16.2%
Tuscan
@
2.83


14

67.8%
Romanian
+
32.2%
Ukrainian_Lviv
@
2.83


15

84.9%
Moldavian
+
15.1%
Italian_Abruzzo
@
2.86


16

69.8%
Romanian
+
30.2%
Ukrainian
@
2.86


17

79.4%
Romanian
+
20.6%
Estonian
@
2.88


18

74.2%
Bulgarian
+
25.8%
East_Finnish
@
2.91


19

71.7%
Bulgarian
+
28.3%
Southwest_Finnish
@
2.91


20

51.7%
Tuscan
+
48.3%
Erzya
@
2.93



</tbody>

[Ion Basescul]

LOL. Then absolutely no reason for that breakaway joke republic to exist. It's not like Russian was banned or purged from the Rep of Moldova. Almost everyone still speaks it, even Aspirin who claims to be both rural and unmixed ;)

You speak Russian, right?

https://moldova.europalibera.org/a/28825691.html

I recommend this book (http://transnistrianarmy.com/) on how they treat their own people.

[Dušan]

new_Moldavian,23.90,28.82,16.52,10.09,14.90,1.80,0 .53,0.57,1.47,0.68,0.41,0.14,0.10

Still, I am closer to new_Moldavian than to Croatian. :thumb001:

https://i.imgur.com/Vbb5BwA.jpg

[Aspirin]

I understand.
Real Latin speaking Moldavians without recent Russian/Ukrainian admixture are Romanian like people on average, not Bosniak, Bosnian Serb and Croatian like as Gedmatch average say. Make sense that Moldavian are closer to Romanians than to people who are located hundreds of km from them and speak different language.

The people who are close to Romanian average are these from the south who live close to Bulgarians and Gagauz colonists, and people who have origins from that area, northern the situation is different, many in fact are very close to that average, some are even more northern (Mold/Ukro mixes). But since you are Serb, and you skip my response, not surprised me.

[Pribislav]

new_Moldavian,23.90,28.82,16.52,10.09,14.90,1.80,0 .53,0.57,1.47,0.68,0.41,0.14,0.10

Still, I am closer to new_Moldavian than to Croatian. :thumb001:

https://i.imgur.com/Vbb5BwA.jpg

Unrelated to the topic.

I wonder what is amount of kaykavians in Croatian average on Gedmatch when Krajina Serb woman (Đurić, your match) who have 44.11% North_European on K12b stay little more southern on K15 map than official Croatian average https://i.imgur.com/4U5kt90.png

So colled Croatian average must be 45% NE according to this, and in my opinion that is too much for average for Croatians as whole.

On Poreklo Croatian average NE on K12b is 41.75%, and on Eupedia stay 42.6%.

[Dušan]

New Moldavian and Serbian averages are basically overlapped.

new_Moldavian,23.90,28.82,16.52,10.09,14.90,1.80,0 .53,0.57,1.47,0.68,0.41,0.14,0.10
Serbian_new,25.1342857143,30.1357142857,16.5271428 571,8.7135714286,15.37,1.75,0.3692857143,0.2928571 429,0.8414285714,0.3471428571,0.3021428571,0.04357 14286,0.0978571429

https://i.imgur.com/Lvy8unD.jpg

[Jana]

This match of my mother is most likely Moldovan. It's unmixed East Romance speaker (Radu is his name), but with very weird and almost nonexistant surname.
It exists only on 3 locations in northern part of Romanian Moldova.

https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=chichi&s=Search

1 Baltic 31.36
2 North_Atlantic 22.58
3 East_Med 16.01
4 West_Med 14.37
5 West_Asian 10.9
6 Red_Sea 2.56
7 Siberian 1.23
8 Amerindian 0.53
9 Northeast_African 0.27
10 Oceanian 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

1 Serbian 5.73
2 Moldavian 5.78
3 Romanian 7.01
4 Bulgarian 8.19
5 Croatian 8.64
6 Hungarian 10.5
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.32
8 Austrian 14.82
9 South_Polish 15.39
10 Ukrainian 15.6
11 East_German 15.91
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.95
13 Southwest_Russian 17.98
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.16
15 Polish 18.73
16 Russian_Smolensk 20.22
17 Tatar 20.59
18 Estonian_Polish 20.74
19 West_German 20.92
20 Belorussian 21.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 56.9% Southwest_Russian + 43.1% Central_Greek @ 1.08
2 61.1% Southwest_Russian + 38.9% South_Italian @ 1.35
3 60.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.2% South_Italian @ 1.45
4 69% Bulgarian + 31% Southwest_Russian @ 1.48
5 51.7% Greek_Thessaly + 48.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.5
6 52.1% Central_Greek + 47.9% Lithuanian @ 1.5
7 56.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 43.4% Central_Greek @ 1.53
8 69.2% Bulgarian + 30.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.54
9 54% Russian_Smolensk + 46% Central_Greek @ 1.6
10 70.9% Ukrainian + 29.1% Cyprian @ 1.68
11 58.1% Southwest_Russian + 41.9% East_Sicilian @ 1.7
12 71.2% South_Polish + 28.8% Cyprian @ 1.71
13 57.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 42.1% East_Sicilian @ 1.73
14 51.5% Greek_Thessaly + 48.5% Southwest_Russian @ 1.76
15 53.3% Estonian_Polish + 46.7% Central_Greek @ 1.79
16 67% Polish + 33% Cyprian @ 1.85
17 71.6% Bulgarian + 28.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.88
18 76.4% Bulgarian + 23.6% Lithuanian @ 1.93
19 74.2% Bulgarian + 25.8% Erzya @ 1.96
20 52.7% Belorussian + 47.3% Central_Greek @ 1.97

These results look rather Moldovan than Wallachian or Transylvanian to me. Your opinion?

[Dušan]

Unrelated to the topic.

I wonder what is amount of kaykavians in Croatian average on Gedmatch when Krajina Serb woman (Đurić, your match) who have 44.11% North_European on K12b stay little more southern on K15 map than official Croatian average https://i.imgur.com/4U5kt90.png

So colled Croatian average must be 45% NE according to this, and in my opinion that is too much for average for Croatians as whole.

On Poreklo Croatian average NE on K12b is 41.75%, and on Eupedia stay 42.6%.

I don't know. Kajkavians are cca 30% of Croats and their genetic is considerably more northern and northwestern.

[Pribislav]

I don't know. Kajkavians are cca 30% of Croats and their genetic is considerably more northern and northwestern.

I would say in Croatian autosomal average there is higher % kaykavians than their % in total Croatian population. Because Croatians wannabe as much possible more northern and central Euro shifted close to Austrians and Hungarians on "average."

In y dna they use predominantly Dalmatian and Herzegovinian samples for artificial pumping of I2a-Din, for the claim that haplo as Croatian.

"Latins (Catholics) are old cheaters" our peple said long time ago in our epic songs!

[Jana]

I would say in Croatian autosomal average there is higher % kaykavians than their % in total Croatian population. Because Croatians wannabe as much possible more norther and central Euro shiftee like close to Austrians and Hungarians.

In y dna they use predominantly Dalmatian and Herzegovinian samples for artificial pumping of I2a-Din for the claim that haplo as Croatian.

"Latins (Catholics) are old cheaters" our peple said long time ago in our epic songs!

Stop trolling, autistic idiot. And mind your own business.

[Ion Basescul]

New Moldavian and Serbian averages are basically overlapped.

new_Moldavian,23.90,28.82,16.52,10.09,14.90,1.80,0 .53,0.57,1.47,0.68,0.41,0.14,0.10
Serbian_new,25.1342857143,30.1357142857,16.5271428 571,8.7135714286,15.37,1.75,0.3692857143,0.2928571 429,0.8414285714,0.3471428571,0.3021428571,0.04357 14286,0.0978571429

https://i.imgur.com/Lvy8unD.jpg

That's not the new average yet. Aspirin shared several kits yesterday and we also have the academic samples from Stefan Voda.
I will make an average for the country and perhaps for regions (North, Centre, South).

[Aspirin]

What Moldovans think about Transnistria? Do they visit this place at all or want it back? My friends visited this place a couple years ago, according to them it felt like a Soviet heritage park brought to real life.

I only was two times here, both times transiting this territory going in Ukraine visiting some relatives in Nikolaev oblast. I never visited that territory just to see how people live here.

[Ion Basescul]

This match of my mother is most likely Moldovan. It's unmixed East Romance speaker (Radu is his name), but with very weird and almost nonexistant surname.
It exists only on 3 locations in northern part of Romanian Moldova.

https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=chichi&s=Search

1 Baltic 31.36
2 North_Atlantic 22.58
3 East_Med 16.01
4 West_Med 14.37
5 West_Asian 10.9
6 Red_Sea 2.56
7 Siberian 1.23
8 Amerindian 0.53
9 Northeast_African 0.27
10 Oceanian 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

1 Serbian 5.73
2 Moldavian 5.78
3 Romanian 7.01
4 Bulgarian 8.19
5 Croatian 8.64
6 Hungarian 10.5
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.32
8 Austrian 14.82
9 South_Polish 15.39
10 Ukrainian 15.6
11 East_German 15.91
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.95
13 Southwest_Russian 17.98
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.16
15 Polish 18.73
16 Russian_Smolensk 20.22
17 Tatar 20.59
18 Estonian_Polish 20.74
19 West_German 20.92
20 Belorussian 21.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 56.9% Southwest_Russian + 43.1% Central_Greek @ 1.08
2 61.1% Southwest_Russian + 38.9% South_Italian @ 1.35
3 60.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.2% South_Italian @ 1.45
4 69% Bulgarian + 31% Southwest_Russian @ 1.48
5 51.7% Greek_Thessaly + 48.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.5
6 52.1% Central_Greek + 47.9% Lithuanian @ 1.5
7 56.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 43.4% Central_Greek @ 1.53
8 69.2% Bulgarian + 30.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.54
9 54% Russian_Smolensk + 46% Central_Greek @ 1.6
10 70.9% Ukrainian + 29.1% Cyprian @ 1.68
11 58.1% Southwest_Russian + 41.9% East_Sicilian @ 1.7
12 71.2% South_Polish + 28.8% Cyprian @ 1.71
13 57.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 42.1% East_Sicilian @ 1.73
14 51.5% Greek_Thessaly + 48.5% Southwest_Russian @ 1.76
15 53.3% Estonian_Polish + 46.7% Central_Greek @ 1.79
16 67% Polish + 33% Cyprian @ 1.85
17 71.6% Bulgarian + 28.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.88
18 76.4% Bulgarian + 23.6% Lithuanian @ 1.93
19 74.2% Bulgarian + 25.8% Erzya @ 1.96
20 52.7% Belorussian + 47.3% Central_Greek @ 1.97

These results look rather Moldovan than Wallachian or Transylvanian to me. Your opinion?

Yes, it's probably from Romania's Moldavia, because it doesn't exist in this form in R. Moldova. There are only variations of it, Chichii, Chichioi, Chichici, Chichin, etc.

[Dušan]

That's not the new average yet. Aspirin shared several kits yesterday and we also have the academic samples from Stefan Voda.
I will make an average for the country and perhaps for regions (North, Centre, South).

Ok, I just used average what Aspirin wrote.
Would that new average be more southern or northern shifted when you add that samples?

[Roy]

There's no need to visit. Probably half of the working age Transnistrians are every day either in Chisinau or Odessa. There are long queues every morning and afternoon on the Dniester, since they commute to Chisinau for work. Chisinau is like 50km away from Tiraspol.
The conflict is mostly political, as people haven't really been separated.



So a smaller issue than I imagined I guess. :)

[Ion Basescul]

So a smaller issue than I imagined I guess. :)

Have a read at this (https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ideal-conflict-on-dniester/) if you are curious about the situation. A bit old, but not much has changed since.

[Aspirin]

Aspirin, you should listen to the mayor speaking about the history of the village and people from 8:25.

This don't make any sense, especially if you look at the results.

[Ion Basescul]

This don't make any sense, especially if you look at the results.

Why not? They pull South.

[Ion Basescul]

Update v12 (Raw)

https://i.imgur.com/VuAE2yk.png

[Jana]

Yes, it's probably from Romania's Moldavia, because it doesn't exist in this form in R. Moldova. There are only variations of it, Chichii, Chichioi, Chichici, Chichin, etc.

I ran his data trough updated K13. Definitely full Moldovan IMO. Surname seem to be from Botosani district too on that map.

Distance to: X

4.06997543 Romanian_Botosani
4.24080134 Bosnian
4.35920519 Serbian_new
4.50043331 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.50470865 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
4.82304883 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
4.82922354 Romanian_Average
4.87378703 Serb_Croatia
5.82579072 Serbian_Bosnia
6.30053966 Bulgarian_Sofia


Target: X
Distance: 1.4016% / 1.40157899 | ADC: 0.25x

63.0 Romanian_Botosani
16.2 Pomak_Central-Macedonia
7.8 Bosniak_Tuzla
5.4 Pomak_Xanthi
4.8 Bulgarian_Ruse
2.8 Bulgarian_Burgas

Target: X
Distance: 2.1127% / 2.11272287 | ADC: 0.5x

60.0 Romanian_Botosani
12.8 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
11.6 Turk_N-Macedonia
8.0 Serbian_new
4.8 Pomak_Kavala
1.8 Pomak_Central-Macedonia
1.0 Pomak_Plovdiv

[Aspirin]

Why not? They pull South.

They need to score tons of Mongoloid, and to have many asiatic features, because in the past in that region lived Nogais, the most cheburek looking Tatars.

But people look like that here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMsjhCxVHyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InwplPVGL-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-PlSBi9y9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3ER7vqsBDc

[Chris596]

Update v12 (Raw)

There's a person on this list who scored 2.06% Oceanian. It's quite high, so it can't be noise. What is the possible explanation to this?

[Ion Basescul]

They need to score tons of Mongoloid, and to have many asiatic features, because in the past in that region lived Nogais, the most cheburek looking Tatars.

But people look like that here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMsjhCxVHyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InwplPVGL-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-PlSBi9y9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3ER7vqsBDc

Maybe, but the most popular family name there is still Turkic, so at some point there was at least one guy who had a lot of offspring.

[Ion Basescul]

There's a person on this list who scored 2.06% Oceanian. It's quite high, so it can't be noise. What is the possible explanation to this?

Oceanian for people without Melanesian, Papuan or Polynesian descent is usually just an overflow from the Siberian/East Asian components. They are closely related, despite how different these groups look physically.

[Leto]

The Oceanian is just noise. Even 2 percent can be noise if it pops up only on one calculator. The Oceanians are basically Australian Aboriginals, they ain't Siberian at all.

[Ion Basescul]

Update v12 (Final)
I'll provide the average coordinates for K13 in a sec, so don't bother transcribing from the image

https://i.imgur.com/Ra4tijq.png

[Luke35]

Oceanian for people without Melanesian, Papuan or Polynesian descent is usually just an overflow from the Siberian/East Asian components. They are closely related, despite how different these groups look physically.

Nice post, I agree.

[Aspirin]

Maybe, but the most popular family name there is still Turkic, so at some point there was at least one guy who had a lot of offspring.

Exist this study about frequency of haplogroups in today Republic compared to Romania (Moldova region). And from southern parts the samples were taken from the same region, village Carahasani, neighboring with Caplani.

In that village exist just one haplogroup who seems to be of Turanic origin, N-P43. Theoretically, similar situation need to be in Caplani too. In the north, in Sofia, one individual have haplogroup Q.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0053731.g001https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0053731.t002

[Ion Basescul]

K13 Coordinates



Romania_Moldavia_average,23.92,27.62,16.56,9.91,16 .68,1.51,0.58,0.43,1.36,0.63,0.46,0.16,0.16
Romania_Moldavia_North,23.82,28.53,15.49,10.61,16. 38,1.41,0.68,0.40,1.25,0.60,0.40,0.22,0.21
Romania_Moldavia_South,24.02,26.76,17.58,9.25,16.9 7,1.60,0.48,0.46,1.47,0.65,0.52,0.10,0.12


Moldova_average,22.51,27.80,16.89,10.65,16.33,2.30 ,0.44,0.62,1.19,0.54,0.42,0.10,0.20
Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18

Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes,24.50,36.97,13.80,8.11,11 .00,1.03,1.07,0.57,1.66,0.66,0.26,0.12,0.25

[Ion Basescul]

Exist this study about frequency of haplogroups in today Republic compared to Romania (Moldova region). And from southern parts the samples were taken from the same region, village Carahasani, neighboring with Caplani.

In that village exist just one haplogroup who seems to be of Turanic origin, N-P43. Theoretically, similar situation need to be in Caplani too. In the north, in Sofia, one individual have haplogroup Q.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0053731.g001https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0053731.t002

J1 and J2 should also not be counted out (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318551-Finally-Turkic-(and-Mongolic)-samples-from-Mongolia), especially since they didn't bother to look properly downstream.

[Ion Basescul]

My mom, modelled with:

Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18


Romani,12.8,11.93,12.72,16.85,15.39,2.76,23.48,1.7 5,0.64,0.35,0.84,0.35,0.13


Russian:Kargopol_Russian,24.92,48.36,7.52,5.54,1.5 0,0.04,2.49,0.23,6.67,1.70,0.23,0.53,0.26
Russian:Russian_Smolensk,28.16,48.47,8.74,5.82,3.8 3,1.69,1.38,0.17,0.85,0.43,0.38,0.06,0.01
Russian:RU_Pinega,24.715,51.9425,5.045,2.815,0.392 5,0.58,1.58,0.2425,9.9575,1.9575,0.265,0.305,0.225


Ukrainian:average,27.77,43.57,12.05,6.12,5.68,0.16 ,1.09,0.91,1.41,0.78,0.28,0.11,0.07
Ukrainian:Ukrainian_Belgorod,25.78,47.29,7.85,8.78 ,5.54,0.58,1.10,0.71,1.02,0.59,0.25,0.16,0.34
Ukrainian:Ukrainian_Lviv,27.35,41.85,11.96,7.10,5. 29,1.79,1.20,0.39,1.36,0.82,0.75,0.00,0.13


Tatar:average,18.88,34.62,5.85,11.66,3.85,0.90,2.6 8,3.12,15.56,2.00,0.28,0.13,0.46
Tatar:Turk_Dobruja-Tatar,12.70,25.39,7.77,11.38,5.82,2.15,2.09,10.20, 20.74,0.91,0.52,0,0.33
Tatar:Crimean_Tatar,13.17,20.04,7.55,16.36,8.88,1. 83,3.23,10.25,16.40,1.28,0.47,0.27,0.21
Tatar:Nogay,9.25,13.23,6.43,31.31,10.06,0.46,2.77, 9.16,15.03,1.24,0.51,0.34,0.21


Target: Ion_Basescul_mom_MyHeritage
Distance: 5.5468% / 5.54679577 | ADC: 0.25x
52.4 Moldova_South
47.6 Ukrainian

Her ancestry is half Moldovan/Romanian from the South and half Ukrainian from the North.

[Ion Basescul]

My mom, modelled with:

Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18


Romani,12.8,11.93,12.72,16.85,15.39,2.76,23.48,1.7 5,0.64,0.35,0.84,0.35,0.13


Russian:Kargopol_Russian,24.92,48.36,7.52,5.54,1.5 0,0.04,2.49,0.23,6.67,1.70,0.23,0.53,0.26
Russian:Russian_Smolensk,28.16,48.47,8.74,5.82,3.8 3,1.69,1.38,0.17,0.85,0.43,0.38,0.06,0.01
Russian:RU_Pinega,24.715,51.9425,5.045,2.815,0.392 5,0.58,1.58,0.2425,9.9575,1.9575,0.265,0.305,0.225


Ukrainian:average,27.77,43.57,12.05,6.12,5.68,0.16 ,1.09,0.91,1.41,0.78,0.28,0.11,0.07
Ukrainian:Ukrainian_Belgorod,25.78,47.29,7.85,8.78 ,5.54,0.58,1.10,0.71,1.02,0.59,0.25,0.16,0.34
Ukrainian:Ukrainian_Lviv,27.35,41.85,11.96,7.10,5. 29,1.79,1.20,0.39,1.36,0.82,0.75,0.00,0.13


Tatar:average,18.88,34.62,5.85,11.66,3.85,0.90,2.6 8,3.12,15.56,2.00,0.28,0.13,0.46
Tatar:Turk_Dobruja-Tatar,12.70,25.39,7.77,11.38,5.82,2.15,2.09,10.20, 20.74,0.91,0.52,0,0.33
Tatar:Crimean_Tatar,13.17,20.04,7.55,16.36,8.88,1. 83,3.23,10.25,16.40,1.28,0.47,0.27,0.21
Tatar:Nogay,9.25,13.23,6.43,31.31,10.06,0.46,2.77, 9.16,15.03,1.24,0.51,0.34,0.21


Target: Ion_Basescul_mom_MyHeritage
Distance: 5.5468% / 5.54679577 | ADC: 0.25x
52.4 Moldova_South
47.6 Ukrainian

Her ancestry is half Moldovan/Romanian from the South and half Ukrainian from the North.

My dad, modelled with the same +
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20

Target: Ion_Basescul_dad_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.5906% / 2.59062940 | ADC: 0.25x
70.0 Moldova_North
19.6 Moldova_Centre
4.6 Ukrainian
4.2 Tatar
1.6 Romani

His ancestry is from the peripheral region between Centre and North (the 2 blue markers in the middle from my avatar).

[Ion Basescul]

My dad, modelled with the same +
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20

Target: Ion_Basescul_dad_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.5906% / 2.59062940 | ADC: 0.25x
70.0 Moldova_North
19.6 Moldova_Centre
4.6 Ukrainian
4.2 Tatar
1.6 Romani

His ancestry is from the peripheral region between Centre and North (the 2 blue markers in the middle from my avatar).

And finally me, with the same model

Target: Ion_Basescul_23andme+LivingDNA
Distance: 1.9007% / 1.90068260 | ADC: 0.25x
69.4 Moldova_North
24.0 Moldova_South
6.6 Tatar

My ancestry from the South is represented accurately, there is some Tatar from somewhere and the Ukrainian 1/4 is absorbed by Moldova_North.

If I remove Moldova_North, then it gets even closer to my paper trail.

Target: Ion_Basescul_23andme+LivingDNA
Distance: 3.3115% / 3.31152834 | ADC: 0.25x
38.4 Moldova_Centre
30.6 Moldova_South
25.8 Ukrainian
5.2 Tatar


With Tatar removed

Target: Ion_Basescul_23andme+LivingDNA
Distance: 3.7319% / 3.73191902 | ADC: 0.25x
41.4 Moldova_Centre
33.0 Moldova_South
25.6 Ukrainian

[Aspirin]

J1 and J2 should also not be counted out (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318551-Finally-Turkic-(and-Mongolic)-samples-from-Mongolia), especially since they didn't bother to look properly downstream.

J1 and J2 seems to be just simple Balkan markers.

People from Carahasani don't have any cheburek traits, is interesting since they live in a former Tatar territory.


Edit.

[Leto]

People from Carahasani don't have any cheburek traits, is interesting since they live in a former Tatar territory.
Do you mean Mongoloid features? Or swarthyness?
Black-assed/chernozhopy doesn't mean Mongoloid in Russian. I don't know if you use the word in Romanian.

[Aspirin]

Do you mean Mongoloid features? Or swarthyness?
Black-assed/chernozhopy doesn't mean Mongoloid in Russian. I don't know if you use the word in Romanian.

Yes, Mongoloid.

[Ion Basescul]

I found a new kit through this one. Close distance and he is most likely from R. Moldova. However, I can't trace the guy exactly, but according to the forename+surname and Facebook, all 4 potential candidates are from R. Moldova.
One was born in Floresti and the rest in Chisinau (2 of them live abroad).
I emailed the guy just in case. Hopefully he'll answer.

North_Atlantic 22.13 Pct
Baltic 23.89 Pct
West_Med 18.68 Pct
West_Asian 16.35 Pct
East_Med 12.57 Pct
Red_Sea 1.83 Pct
South_Asian 1.01 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 2.83 Pct
Amerindian 0.58 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.13 Pct

This person is from Romania, just had it confirmed.

[Dušan]

K13 Coordinates



Romania_Moldavia_average,23.92,27.62,16.56,9.91,16 .68,1.51,0.58,0.43,1.36,0.63,0.46,0.16,0.16
Romania_Moldavia_North,23.82,28.53,15.49,10.61,16. 38,1.41,0.68,0.40,1.25,0.60,0.40,0.22,0.21
Romania_Moldavia_South,24.02,26.76,17.58,9.25,16.9 7,1.60,0.48,0.46,1.47,0.65,0.52,0.10,0.12


Moldova_average,22.51,27.80,16.89,10.65,16.33,2.30 ,0.44,0.62,1.19,0.54,0.42,0.10,0.20
Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18

Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes,24.50,36.97,13.80,8.11,11 .00,1.03,1.07,0.57,1.66,0.66,0.26,0.12,0.25

https://i.imgur.com/6wj6mve.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kInic9T.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

.

Can you share the spreadsheet? Seems like you merged/modified some from Lukasz's updated sheet.

[Dušan]

Can you share the spreadsheet? Seems like you merged/modified some from Lukasz's updated sheet.

It is original http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo_original.htm
I replaced old Serbian with new Serbian, and added these new Moldavian averages you posted.

[Ion Basescul]

It is original http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo_original.htm
I replaced old Serbian with new Serbian, and added these new Moldavian averages you posted.

Thanks

My folk


<tbody>
Distance to:
Ion_Basescul_23andme+LivingDNA


4.01461240
Serbian_new


4.41248229
Romania_Moldavia_North


4.89598815
Moldova_North


4.94718102
Romania_Moldavia_average


5.16774612
Moldova_Centre


5.43127057
Moldova_average


5.83460367
Romania_Moldavia_South


7.87489048
Romanian


8.50426952
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes


8.75925796
Croatian


9.18701801
Hungarian


9.54794219
Moldova_South


10.48739720
Bulgarian


13.57386091
Austrian


14.96605492
East_German


15.66258919
Ukrainian_Lviv


16.49787259
South_Polish


17.12165880
Ukrainian


20.16939513
West_German


20.24129195
Greek_Thessaly


20.38253910
Tatar


20.69568554
Polish


20.71534697
Southwest_Russian


20.99025726
Ukrainian_Belgorod


21.88208400
South_Dutch

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Ion_Basescul_mom_MyHeritage


6.40353808
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes


8.11056102
Moldova_North


8.90335330
Moldova_Centre


9.17777206
Croatian


9.75350552
Serbian_new


10.48813139
Romania_Moldavia_North


10.81626553
Moldova_average


11.42930882
Romania_Moldavia_average


12.45181513
Romania_Moldavia_South


13.11278003
Ukrainian_Lviv


13.97302043
Ukrainian


14.86197833
Romanian


14.94706326
Moldova_South


15.06039176
Hungarian


15.21391797
South_Polish


15.54292122
Bulgarian


16.06538204
Southwest_Russian


16.18200853
Ukrainian_Belgorod


18.12671233
Polish


18.90034920
Russian_Smolensk


19.39971392
Estonian_Polish


20.20784006
Austrian


20.29402621
East_German


20.46192562
Belorussian


20.53980039
Kargopol_Russian

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Ion_Basescul_dad_MyHeritage


4.11966018
Moldova_North


5.97620866
Serbian_new


6.14468063
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes


6.24292399
Romania_Moldavia_North


6.26313819
Moldova_Centre


7.00865893
Croatian


7.43493779
Romania_Moldavia_average


7.48569302
Moldova_average


8.69411870
Romania_Moldavia_South


9.85963488
Hungarian


10.55194769
Romanian


11.92159805
Moldova_South


12.60352332
Bulgarian


13.36573230
Ukrainian_Lviv


14.51251529
South_Polish


14.77720880
Ukrainian


14.80950371
Austrian


15.54933118
East_German


17.93240363
Southwest_Russian


17.95142334
Ukrainian_Belgorod


18.47455277
Polish


19.65805179
Tatar


20.38213924
Russian_Smolensk


21.16155240
Estonian_Polish


21.91872259
Belorussian

</tbody>

[Ion Basescul]

It is original http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo_original.htm
I replaced old Serbian with new Serbian, and added these new Moldavian averages you posted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Serbian_new sample is kind of trash as an average, right?
It looks the same as the most Northwest shifted Serbs (from Croatia and Bosnia).

Updated K13
Northern profile
Serbian_new,25.1342857143,30.1357142857,16.5271428 571,8.7135714286,15.37,1.75,0.3692857143,0.2928571 429,0.8414285714,0.3471428571,0.3021428571,0.04357 14286,0.0978571429
Serbian_Bosnia,26.2975,31.9975,15.9675,7.81,13.62, 1.785,0.58,0.6375,0.625,0.18,0.3975,0.1075,0
Serb_Croatia,24.61,30.10,17.60,8.67,14.73,1.85,0.5 0,0.16,1.05,0.23,0.36,0.01,0.05

Central profile
?

Southern profile
Serb_North-Macedonia,18.17,25.73,24.26,13.50,14.58,2.09,0,0,0 ,0.99,0,0.68,0
Bosniak_Sandzak,24.31,25.40,19.12,9.89,16.79,2.86, 0.35,0.25,0.20,0.51,0.13,0.00,0.19
None from Serbia proper




From original K13
Serbian,27.10,27.32,15.84,9.37,15.63,2.50,0.33,0.5 7,0.75,0.03,0.38,0.11,0.06

Serbs from G25
Only 1 out of 5 is similar to Serbian_new. The rest are more like Bosniak_Sandzak and Serb_North-Macedonia.



<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia1


0.02027796
Macedonian:Macedonian3


0.02129408
Croatian:Croatia_Cro140


0.02130027
Slovenian:Slovenian137


0.02278499
Croatian:Croatia_Cro53


0.02295821
Croatian:Croatia_Cro142


0.02417508
Bosnian:Bosnian_11


0.02770653
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.02793259
Hungarian:HungarianD1


0.02879941
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.02934333
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03125145
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03130827
Slovenian:Slovenian136


0.03141187
Croatian:Croatia_Cro302


0.03146108
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03158046
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03299268
Bosnian:Bosnian_12


0.03344439
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03394955
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03416178
Hungarian:NA15201


0.03470400
Hungarian:NA15203


0.03489287
Austrian:Austria1


0.03524893
Slovenian:Slovenian147


0.03576013
French_Alsace:A_27


0.03581322
Slovenian:Slovenian172


0.03667700
Moldovan:MOL-069

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia2


0.02280044
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.02492262
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.02512585
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.02872304
Romanian:A343


0.02903273
Romanian:G408


0.02954824
Bulgarian:BulgarianD6


0.02987515
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03039855
Romanian:G429


0.03043868
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.03086683
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.03168199
Romanian:G428


0.03187415
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.03204965
Romanian:A325


0.03207296
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.03218647
Gagauz:GAG-183


0.03249403
Italian_Northeast:ALP435


0.03249718
Romanian:A362


0.03312526
Romanian:G421


0.03320853
Moldovan:MOL-024


0.03333950
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03344843
Turkish_Istanbul:Istanbul25098


0.03349106
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.03357405
Moldovan:MOL-066


0.03357831
Macedonian:Macedonian2


0.03360420
Moldovan:MOL-067

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia3


0.02181894
Macedonian:Macedonian3


0.02432129
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.02668572
Hungarian:HungarianD1


0.02709882
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.02753658
Moldovan:MOL-066


0.02878177
Bosnian:Bosnian_11


0.02897194
Croatian:Croatia_Cro53


0.02977428
Slovenian:Slovenian137


0.03077489
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03089537
Croatian:Croatia_Cro140


0.03099839
Croatian:Croatia_Cro142


0.03100598
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03277593
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03353688
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03404807
Romanian:A362


0.03437355
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03505046
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.03514040
Slovenian:Slovenian136


0.03529248
Romanian:G408


0.03578042
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03642134
Moldovan:MOL-067


0.03666431
Bosnian:Bosnian_12


0.03675626
Romanian:G429


0.03679978
Romanian:G421


0.03801899
Romanian:A325

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia4


0.02204153
Romanian:G408


0.02421763
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.02514220
Romanian:G428


0.02559354
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.02609241
Bulgarian:BulgarianD6


0.02614389
Romanian:A362


0.02641319
Moldovan:MOL-024


0.02675189
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.02704025
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.02723006
Romanian:A343


0.02822860
Moldovan:MOL-058


0.02840923
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.02864719
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.02898407
Moldovan:MOL-067


0.02923408
Romanian:A374


0.02925050
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.02930394
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.02943373
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.02962336
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.03006994
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.03019717
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.03043743
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.03052509
Romanian:G434


0.03067318
Romanian:G429


0.03071714
Italian_Northeast:ALP435

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia5


0.02267243
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.02305049
Macedonian:Macedonian7


0.02329683
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.02417495
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.02935727
Macedonian:Macedonian2


0.03007896
Italian_Northeast:KF2700922


0.03130999
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.03139709
Romanian:G428


0.03205184
Romanian:A343


0.03311662
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.03350164
Italian_Northeast:ALP220


0.03352143
Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE8


0.03367780
Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE34


0.03394732
Romanian:G408


0.03451894
Bosnian:Bosnian_14


0.03497659
Moldovan:MOL-065


0.03502780
Italian_Northeast:ALP354


0.03513794
Moldovan:MOL-064


0.03561471
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03577842
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03584877
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03598428
Italian_Northeast:ALP435


0.03646399
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03655745
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03672671
Moldovan:MOL-069

</tbody>



From my point of view, you guys are missing the gradient in Serbs and your new average is basically just Serbia_North.

[CommonSense]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Serbian_new sample is kind of trash as an average, right?
It looks the same as the most Northwest shifted Serbs (from Croatia and Bosnia).

Updated K13
Northern profile
Serbian_new,25.1342857143,30.1357142857,16.5271428 571,8.7135714286,15.37,1.75,0.3692857143,0.2928571 429,0.8414285714,0.3471428571,0.3021428571,0.04357 14286,0.0978571429
Serbian_Bosnia,26.2975,31.9975,15.9675,7.81,13.62, 1.785,0.58,0.6375,0.625,0.18,0.3975,0.1075,0
Serb_Croatia,24.61,30.10,17.60,8.67,14.73,1.85,0.5 0,0.16,1.05,0.23,0.36,0.01,0.05

Central profile
?

Southern profile
Serb_North-Macedonia,18.17,25.73,24.26,13.50,14.58,2.09,0,0,0 ,0.99,0,0.68,0
Bosniak_Sandzak,24.31,25.40,19.12,9.89,16.79,2.86, 0.35,0.25,0.20,0.51,0.13,0.00,0.19
None from Serbia proper




From original K13
Serbian,27.10,27.32,15.84,9.37,15.63,2.50,0.33,0.5 7,0.75,0.03,0.38,0.11,0.06

Serbs from G25
Only 1 out of 5 is similar to Serbian_new. The rest are more like Bosniak_Sandzak and Serb_North-Macedonia.



<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia1


0.02027796
Macedonian:Macedonian3


0.02129408
Croatian:Croatia_Cro140


0.02130027
Slovenian:Slovenian137


0.02278499
Croatian:Croatia_Cro53


0.02295821
Croatian:Croatia_Cro142


0.02417508
Bosnian:Bosnian_11


0.02770653
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.02793259
Hungarian:HungarianD1


0.02879941
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.02934333
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03125145
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03130827
Slovenian:Slovenian136


0.03141187
Croatian:Croatia_Cro302


0.03146108
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03158046
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03299268
Bosnian:Bosnian_12


0.03344439
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03394955
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03416178
Hungarian:NA15201


0.03470400
Hungarian:NA15203


0.03489287
Austrian:Austria1


0.03524893
Slovenian:Slovenian147


0.03576013
French_Alsace:A_27


0.03581322
Slovenian:Slovenian172


0.03667700
Moldovan:MOL-069

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia2


0.02280044
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.02492262
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.02512585
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.02872304
Romanian:A343


0.02903273
Romanian:G408


0.02954824
Bulgarian:BulgarianD6


0.02987515
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03039855
Romanian:G429


0.03043868
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.03086683
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.03168199
Romanian:G428


0.03187415
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.03204965
Romanian:A325


0.03207296
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.03218647
Gagauz:GAG-183


0.03249403
Italian_Northeast:ALP435


0.03249718
Romanian:A362


0.03312526
Romanian:G421


0.03320853
Moldovan:MOL-024


0.03333950
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03344843
Turkish_Istanbul:Istanbul25098


0.03349106
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.03357405
Moldovan:MOL-066


0.03357831
Macedonian:Macedonian2


0.03360420
Moldovan:MOL-067

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia3


0.02181894
Macedonian:Macedonian3


0.02432129
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.02668572
Hungarian:HungarianD1


0.02709882
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.02753658
Moldovan:MOL-066


0.02878177
Bosnian:Bosnian_11


0.02897194
Croatian:Croatia_Cro53


0.02977428
Slovenian:Slovenian137


0.03077489
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03089537
Croatian:Croatia_Cro140


0.03099839
Croatian:Croatia_Cro142


0.03100598
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03277593
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03353688
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03404807
Romanian:A362


0.03437355
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03505046
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.03514040
Slovenian:Slovenian136


0.03529248
Romanian:G408


0.03578042
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03642134
Moldovan:MOL-067


0.03666431
Bosnian:Bosnian_12


0.03675626
Romanian:G429


0.03679978
Romanian:G421


0.03801899
Romanian:A325

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia4


0.02204153
Romanian:G408


0.02421763
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.02514220
Romanian:G428


0.02559354
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.02609241
Bulgarian:BulgarianD6


0.02614389
Romanian:A362


0.02641319
Moldovan:MOL-024


0.02675189
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.02704025
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.02723006
Romanian:A343


0.02822860
Moldovan:MOL-058


0.02840923
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.02864719
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.02898407
Moldovan:MOL-067


0.02923408
Romanian:A374


0.02925050
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.02930394
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.02943373
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.02962336
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.03006994
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.03019717
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.03043743
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.03052509
Romanian:G434


0.03067318
Romanian:G429


0.03071714
Italian_Northeast:ALP435

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia5


0.02267243
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.02305049
Macedonian:Macedonian7


0.02329683
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.02417495
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.02935727
Macedonian:Macedonian2


0.03007896
Italian_Northeast:KF2700922


0.03130999
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.03139709
Romanian:G428


0.03205184
Romanian:A343


0.03311662
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.03350164
Italian_Northeast:ALP220


0.03352143
Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE8


0.03367780
Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE34


0.03394732
Romanian:G408


0.03451894
Bosnian:Bosnian_14


0.03497659
Moldovan:MOL-065


0.03502780
Italian_Northeast:ALP354


0.03513794
Moldovan:MOL-064


0.03561471
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03577842
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03584877
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03598428
Italian_Northeast:ALP435


0.03646399
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03655745
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03672671
Moldovan:MOL-069

</tbody>



From my point of view, you guys are missing the gradient in Serbs and your new average is basically just Serbia_North.

The original Eurogenes K13 average is similar to the 'new' Serbian average, the only difference is the different Baltic to North Atlantic ratio. On the other hand Davidski only included the samples from the academic study which he deemed had a suitable amount of SNPs, had he included all of them the G25 average would be different.

[Dušan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Serbian_new sample is kind of trash as an average, right?
It looks the same as the most Northwest shifted Serbs (from Croatia and Bosnia).

Updated K13
Northern profile
Serbian_new,25.1342857143,30.1357142857,16.5271428 571,8.7135714286,15.37,1.75,0.3692857143,0.2928571 429,0.8414285714,0.3471428571,0.3021428571,0.04357 14286,0.0978571429
Serbian_Bosnia,26.2975,31.9975,15.9675,7.81,13.62, 1.785,0.58,0.6375,0.625,0.18,0.3975,0.1075,0
Serb_Croatia,24.61,30.10,17.60,8.67,14.73,1.85,0.5 0,0.16,1.05,0.23,0.36,0.01,0.05

Central profile
?

Southern profile
Serb_North-Macedonia,18.17,25.73,24.26,13.50,14.58,2.09,0,0,0 ,0.99,0,0.68,0
Bosniak_Sandzak,24.31,25.40,19.12,9.89,16.79,2.86, 0.35,0.25,0.20,0.51,0.13,0.00,0.19
None from Serbia proper




From original K13
Serbian,27.10,27.32,15.84,9.37,15.63,2.50,0.33,0.5 7,0.75,0.03,0.38,0.11,0.06

Serbs from G25
Only 1 out of 5 is similar to Serbian_new. The rest are more like Bosniak_Sandzak and Serb_North-Macedonia.



<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia1


0.02027796
Macedonian:Macedonian3


0.02129408
Croatian:Croatia_Cro140


0.02130027
Slovenian:Slovenian137


0.02278499
Croatian:Croatia_Cro53


0.02295821
Croatian:Croatia_Cro142


0.02417508
Bosnian:Bosnian_11


0.02770653
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.02793259
Hungarian:HungarianD1


0.02879941
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.02934333
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03125145
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03130827
Slovenian:Slovenian136


0.03141187
Croatian:Croatia_Cro302


0.03146108
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03158046
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03299268
Bosnian:Bosnian_12


0.03344439
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03394955
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03416178
Hungarian:NA15201


0.03470400
Hungarian:NA15203


0.03489287
Austrian:Austria1


0.03524893
Slovenian:Slovenian147


0.03576013
French_Alsace:A_27


0.03581322
Slovenian:Slovenian172


0.03667700
Moldovan:MOL-069

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia2


0.02280044
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.02492262
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.02512585
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.02872304
Romanian:A343


0.02903273
Romanian:G408


0.02954824
Bulgarian:BulgarianD6


0.02987515
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03039855
Romanian:G429


0.03043868
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.03086683
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.03168199
Romanian:G428


0.03187415
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.03204965
Romanian:A325


0.03207296
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.03218647
Gagauz:GAG-183


0.03249403
Italian_Northeast:ALP435


0.03249718
Romanian:A362


0.03312526
Romanian:G421


0.03320853
Moldovan:MOL-024


0.03333950
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03344843
Turkish_Istanbul:Istanbul25098


0.03349106
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.03357405
Moldovan:MOL-066


0.03357831
Macedonian:Macedonian2


0.03360420
Moldovan:MOL-067

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia3


0.02181894
Macedonian:Macedonian3


0.02432129
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.02668572
Hungarian:HungarianD1


0.02709882
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.02753658
Moldovan:MOL-066


0.02878177
Bosnian:Bosnian_11


0.02897194
Croatian:Croatia_Cro53


0.02977428
Slovenian:Slovenian137


0.03077489
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.03089537
Croatian:Croatia_Cro140


0.03099839
Croatian:Croatia_Cro142


0.03100598
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03277593
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03353688
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03404807
Romanian:A362


0.03437355
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03505046
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.03514040
Slovenian:Slovenian136


0.03529248
Romanian:G408


0.03578042
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03642134
Moldovan:MOL-067


0.03666431
Bosnian:Bosnian_12


0.03675626
Romanian:G429


0.03679978
Romanian:G421


0.03801899
Romanian:A325

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia4


0.02204153
Romanian:G408


0.02421763
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.02514220
Romanian:G428


0.02559354
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.02609241
Bulgarian:BulgarianD6


0.02614389
Romanian:A362


0.02641319
Moldovan:MOL-024


0.02675189
Bulgarian:BulgarianF2


0.02704025
Moldovan:MOL-069


0.02723006
Romanian:A343


0.02822860
Moldovan:MOL-058


0.02840923
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.02864719
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.02898407
Moldovan:MOL-067


0.02923408
Romanian:A374


0.02925050
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.02930394
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.02943373
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.02962336
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.03006994
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.03019717
Macedonian:Macedonian6


0.03043743
Montenegrin:Montenegro5


0.03052509
Romanian:G434


0.03067318
Romanian:G429


0.03071714
Italian_Northeast:ALP435

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Serbian:Serbian_Serbia5


0.02267243
Montenegrin:Montenegro7


0.02305049
Macedonian:Macedonian7


0.02329683
Montenegrin:Montenegro1


0.02417495
Bulgarian:Bulgaria1


0.02935727
Macedonian:Macedonian2


0.03007896
Italian_Northeast:KF2700922


0.03130999
Italian_Northeast:ALP093


0.03139709
Romanian:G428


0.03205184
Romanian:A343


0.03311662
Bulgarian:BulgarianE2


0.03350164
Italian_Northeast:ALP220


0.03352143
Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE8


0.03367780
Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE34


0.03394732
Romanian:G408


0.03451894
Bosnian:Bosnian_14


0.03497659
Moldovan:MOL-065


0.03502780
Italian_Northeast:ALP354


0.03513794
Moldovan:MOL-064


0.03561471
Croatian:Croatia_Cro305


0.03577842
Bosnian:Bosnian_13


0.03584877
Bosnian:Bosnian_10


0.03598428
Italian_Northeast:ALP435


0.03646399
Montenegrin:Montenegro6


0.03655745
Montenegrin:Montenegro4


0.03672671
Moldovan:MOL-069

</tbody>



From my point of view, you guys are missing the gradient in Serbs and your new average is basically just Serbia_North.

New Serbian average is good for Serbs from central Serbia, too.
We are pretty homogenous in term of autosomal genetics. No matter if person is from Serbia, Bosnia or Croatia, that person will fit well in new average.

This is my Gedmatch matches, all Serbs from Croatia. Some of them are southern and eastern from old Serbian average.
https://i.imgur.com/qntHeSe.png

So, regional differences are low.

[Dušan]

Southern profile
Serb_North-Macedonia,18.17,25.73,24.26,13.50,14.58,2.09,0,0,0 ,0.99,0,0.68,0
Bosniak_Sandzak,24.31,25.40,19.12,9.89,16.79,2.86, 0.35,0.25,0.20,0.51,0.13,0.00,0.19
None from Serbia proper



.

I just want to add - I dont know what is source for that result for Serbs in North Macedonia. Also, there are only 36.000 ethnic Serbs in North Macedonia, it is very tiny community, of cca 0.5% of all Serbs in Balkans.

And for Bosniak Sandzak, they are not Serbs. Their ethnogenesis is mix of ethnic Albanians and islamicized ethnic Serbs. They are different ethnic group and are not relevant for Serbian average.

[Ion Basescul]

I just want to add - I dont know what is source for that result for Serbs in North Macedonia. Also, there are only 36.000 ethnic Serbs in North Macedonia, it is very tiny community, of cca 0.5% of all Serbs in Balkans.

And for Bosniak Sandzak, they are not Serbs. Their ethnogenesis is mix of ethnic Albanians and islamicized ethnic Serbs. They are different ethnic group and are not relevant for Serbian average.

Considering that I saw full Croats from Serbia scoring like 27% Balt and 22% Atlantic, and Croats are way more North-shifted than Serbs on average, I think that you guys should seriously work on a fair profile for Serbia.
That is if you actually want it to be fair.

[Dušan]

Considering that I saw full Croats from Serbia scoring like 27% Balt and 22% Atlantic, and Croats are way more North-shifted than Serbs on average, I think that you guys should seriously work on a fair profile for Serbia.
That is if you actually want it to be fair.

I think there is some misunderstanding between us.
New Serbian average is average for ethnic Serbs, not for Serbia as a country with all ethnic minorities - Hungarians, Roma, Sandzak Bosniaks, Albanians etc.

Our new average is a final average result of several tens of Serb results. It is transparent and fair.

[Leto]

Serbian Baltic average is at 29-30%.

[Jana]

Croatian average is very inncaurate btw. No way Croats are 36% Baltic on average, that's average representative for our capital not entire Croatia.
This is new average I made from 3 academic averages (Croatian, Croat_Bosnia, Croat_Split) plus 2 south Croat averages, Morlach and Slavic cluster and plus Kajkavian/NW_Croat_average)

Croatian_new,27.49,33.14,15.16,7.79,14.31,1.74,0.9 7,0.30,0.51,0.67,0.33,0.09,0.13

[Daos777]

Croatian average is very inncaurate btw. No way Croats are 36% Baltic on average, that's average representative for our capital not entire Croatia.

Or you just have low Baltic for a Croat due to German Jew ancestry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Samnium]

Croatian average is very inncaurate btw. No way Croats are 36% Baltic on average, that's average representative for our capital not entire Croatia.

Yeah, I mean I have saw Croatians clustering almost with Southern Poles.

[Jana]

Or you just have low Baltic for a Croat due to German Jew ancestry

Why are you repeating Jewish,when I have no Jewish ancestry at all?
And my Baltic isn't low.

It's pretty average.

[Jana]

Yeah, I mean I have saw Croatians clustering almost with Southern Poles.

NW Croats are pretty similar to Czechs and Slovaks genetically.

[Jana]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Serbian_new sample is kind of trash as an average, right?
It looks the same as the most Northwest shifted Serbs (from Croatia and Bosnia).

Bosnian Serb average is basically the same as southern Croat one, but that isn't suprising because population of BiH and south Croatia is genetically very similar.

[Pribislav]

New Serbian average is good for Serbs from central Serbia, too.
We are pretty homogenous in term of autosomal genetics. No matter if person is from Serbia, Bosnia or Croatia, that person will fit well in new average.

This is my Gedmatch matches, all Serbs from Croatia. Some of them are southern and eastern from old Serbian average.
https://i.imgur.com/qntHeSe.png

So, regional differences are low.

I think real average Serbian position is little more northern and western, something like Aye's dad position.
https://i.imgur.com/veN6iQl.png

Serbs from Croatia (Krajina) and Bosnia score higher Baltic than Serbs from Serbia from what I have seen.

These are top 19 Serbs by Baltic score from what I know, except recorder with 36.43 who is from Serbia all others are from BiH and Krajina/Croatia. Except Vulićević from Šabac I have never seen Serb from Serbia with over 33% Baltic.

1. Serb from Šabac, Western Serbia (surname Vulićević) - 36.43
2. Serb from Banija - 36.21
3. Serb from Lika - 35.59
4. Serbian woman from Herzegovina - 35.53
5. Dalmatian Serb from Skradin area (surname Grulović) - 35.28
6. Serb mix of Banija and East Bosnia - 35.05
7. Serb from Dubica - 34.97
8. Serb from Banija, from Glina (surname Došen) - 34.93
9. Serb from Banija (surname Čavić) - 34.66
10. Serb from Western Bosnia, from Bosansko Grahovo (surname Koščica) - 34.63
11. Serbian woman from East Bosnia - 34.53
12. Serb from Lika (surname Zubović) - 34.46
13. Serbian woman from Western Bosnia (Kozara) - 34.4
14. Serb from Lika - 34.14
15. Serbian woman from Herzegovina - 34.12
16. Serb from Lika - 34.08
17. Serb from Lika - 33.99
18. Dušan - 33.79
19. Serb from Banija - 33.74

[Jana]

Some regions of Croatia are severely undertested, especially eastern and western Croatia as well as northernmost one.
In Serbia central, eastern and southern Serbia as well as Kosovo are very undertested as well. Even northern Serbia is.

Only people from dinaric regions test a lot, especially Serbs.

Sorry for the offtopic though. This thread is about Moldovans.

[Daos777]

Yeah, I mean I have saw Croatians clustering almost with Southern Poles.

That’s why I call BS on k13. On most other calcs I get southern Pole, Slovak, or West Ukrainian. On k13 I get Croatian. Even tho my Baltic is higher than their even inflated average on k13.

[Jana]

That’s why I call BS on k13. On most other calcs I get southern Pole, Slovak, or West Ukrainian. On k13 I get Croatian. Even tho my Baltic is higher than their even inflated average on k13.

It's not inflated, it's representative for Croats of Zagreb who were sampled. K13 updated has Czech and Slovak reference, even Czech_Moravian was made by Andre so you won't get Croatian, don't worry :)

[Leto]

It's not inflated, it's representative for Croats of Zagreb who were sampled. K13 updated has Czech and Slovak reference, even Czech_Moravian was made by Andre so you won't get Croatian, don't worry :)
Are the city of Zagreb and the county really full of lighter people? I mean that elevated Baltic should somehow manifest itself in the looks, shouldn't it?

[Dušan]

I think real average Serbian position is little more northern and wester, something like Aye's dad position.
https://i.imgur.com/veN6iQl.png

Serbs from Croatia (Krajina) and Bosnia score higher Baltic than Serbs from Serbia from what I have seen.

These are top 19 Serbs by Baltic score from what I know, except recorder with 36.43 who is from Serbia all others are from BiH and Krajina/Croatia. Except Vulićević from Šabac I have never seen Serb from Serbia with over 33% Baltic.

1. Serb from Šabac, Western Serbia (surname Vulićević) - 36.43
2. Serb from Banija - 36.21
3. Serb from Lika - 35.59
4. Serbian woman from Herzegovina - 35.53
5. Dalmatian Serb from Skradin area (surname Grulović) - 35.12
6. Serb mix of Banija and East Bosnia - 35.05
7. Serb from Dubica - 34.97
8. Serb from Banija, from Glina (surname Došen) - 34.93
9. Serb from Banija (surname Čavić) - 34.66
10. Serb from Western Bosnia, from Bosansko Grahovo (surname Koščica) - 34.63
11. Serbian woman from East Bosnia - 34.53
12. Serb from Lika (surname Zubović) - 34.46
13. Serbian woman from Western Bosnia (Kozara) - 34.4
14. Serb from Lika - 34.14
15. Serbian woman from Herzegovina - 34.12
16. Serb from Lika - 34.08
17. Serb from Lika - 33.99
18. Dušan - 33.79
19. Serb from Banija - 33.74

You are focused on Baltic score, never count all results.

This is average from Serbs from Croatia.
Counted me, Decius, HungryLion, AyeFather, Decius, Krtinić and lot of my matches from Gedmatch. Total 18 samples

Serb_Krajina
North Atlantic 24.48,
Baltic 30.59,
West Med 17.36,
West Asia 8.35,
East Med 15.01,
Red Sea 1.76,
South Asia 0.47,
East Asia 0.16,
Siberian 0.88,
Amerindian 0.44,
Oceanian 0.41,
Notheast African 0.03,
sub-Saharan 0.03

Not different from general Serbian average.

[Ion Basescul]

I think there is some misunderstanding between us.
New Serbian average is average for ethnic Serbs, not for Serbia as a country with all ethnic minorities - Hungarians, Roma, Sandzak Bosniaks, Albanians etc.

Our new average is a final average result of several tens of Serb results. It is transparent and fair.

No, this is what I meant. Bosniaks and Hugarians would pull the average even further North.
I have full Serbians with 4gp, locations and surnames on both 23andme and MyHeritage. Same applies for Croats.
And I can roughly estimate how those Serbs would score, probably in the mid 20s for Atlantic and Baltic. That's why I was saying that the old average is probably better for Serbs from the whole country.

My 4gp Serbs

https://i.imgur.com/SAsyYhm.png

1)
https://i.imgur.com/PVVtnPq.png
https://i.imgur.com/FYekIZj.png
https://i.imgur.com/gWfFBZq.png

2)
https://i.imgur.com/fkRrvSX.png
https://i.imgur.com/NfEr165.png
https://i.imgur.com/S4ggJb7.png

3)
https://i.imgur.com/FdOBBQy.png
https://i.imgur.com/MECBPDy.png
https://i.imgur.com/nSNmbbm.png

4)
https://i.imgur.com/P4TIPZa.png
https://i.imgur.com/9h8fLeL.png
https://i.imgur.com/8pcplRn.png


My 4gp Croats

https://i.imgur.com/fo6mV0T.png

1)
https://i.imgur.com/X3PprVN.png
https://i.imgur.com/89rq0kI.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZNCdkRc.png

2)
https://i.imgur.com/aeVcy82.png
https://i.imgur.com/6b8YOFg.png
https://i.imgur.com/f87R9j2.png

3)
https://i.imgur.com/ORLOxp2.png
https://i.imgur.com/M3wn1FC.png
https://i.imgur.com/I1UbLTE.png


Now tell me guys, most of those Serbians from the K15 map, are they more similar to my Serbs or Croats?
I would guess they are like 40%+ East Euro Croats, where East Euro pulls them up and enough NW Euro too, which pulls them to the left.

[Jana]

Are the city of Zagreb and the county really full of lighter people? I mean that elevated Baltic should somehow manifest itself in the looks, shouldn't it?

Zagreb is very mixed (Croats from all regions), but yes you can find lot of let's say German or Polish looking people there.
Real natives of the city who are a minority can be mixed with Germans, Hungarians, Czechs or Jews.

Rural population around Zagreb are typical NW Croats.

[Pribislav]

You are focused on Baltic score, never count all results.

This is average from Serbs from Croatia.
Counted me, Decius, HungryLion, AyeFather, Decius, Krtinić and lot of my matches from Gedmatch. Total 18 samples

Serb_Krajina
North Atlantic 24.48,
Baltic 30.59,
West Med 17.36,
West Asia 8.35,
East Med 15.01,
Red Sea 1.76,
South Asia 0.47,
East Asia 0.16,
Siberian 0.88,
Amerindian 0.44,
Oceanian 0.41,
Notheast African 0.03,
sub-Saharan 0.03

Not different from general Serbian average.

I have many Krajina Serb kits who are not counted there. For example CommonSense posted Milković Krajina Serb with 36.21% Baltic, and I had already his kit in my conputer unconnected with CS. Or for example Grulović with 35.28 Baltic posted by vtbnekhio is also not counted.

[Jana]

I have many Krajina Serb kits who are not counted there. For example CommonSense posted Milković Krajina Serb with 36.21% Baltic, and I had already had hus kit in my conputer unconnected with CS. Or for example Grulović with 35.28 Baltic posted by vtbnekhio is also not counted.

How is Milković a Serb, you spoke with him? I wrote before Milković is common Lika Croat surname and I have a collague with same surname.
Same applies to Došen and Zubović ( to add,I don't know any Zubović irl but it's really common name among Croats)

[Dušan]

I have many Krajina Serb kits who are not counted there. For example CommonSense posted Milković Krajina Serb with 36.21% Baltic, and I had already his kit in my conputer unconnected with CS. Or for example Grulović with 35.28 Baltic posted by vtbnekhio is also not counted.

Send me kit numbers to add.

[Dušan]

No, this is what I meant. Bosniaks and Hugarians would pull the average even further North.
I have full Serbians with 4gp, locations and surnames on both 23andme and MyHeritage. Same applies for Croats.
And I can roughly estimate how those Serbs would score, probably in the mid 20s for Atlantic and Baltic. That's why I was saying that the old average is probably better for Serbs from the whole country.

My 4gp Serbs

https://i.imgur.com/SAsyYhm.png

1)
https://i.imgur.com/PVVtnPq.png
https://i.imgur.com/FYekIZj.png
https://i.imgur.com/gWfFBZq.png

2)
https://i.imgur.com/fkRrvSX.png
https://i.imgur.com/NfEr165.png
https://i.imgur.com/S4ggJb7.png

3)
https://i.imgur.com/FdOBBQy.png
https://i.imgur.com/MECBPDy.png
https://i.imgur.com/nSNmbbm.png

4)
https://i.imgur.com/P4TIPZa.png
https://i.imgur.com/9h8fLeL.png
https://i.imgur.com/8pcplRn.png


My 4gp Croats

https://i.imgur.com/fo6mV0T.png

1)
https://i.imgur.com/X3PprVN.png
https://i.imgur.com/89rq0kI.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZNCdkRc.png

2)
https://i.imgur.com/aeVcy82.png
https://i.imgur.com/6b8YOFg.png
https://i.imgur.com/f87R9j2.png

3)
https://i.imgur.com/ORLOxp2.png
https://i.imgur.com/M3wn1FC.png
https://i.imgur.com/I1UbLTE.png


Now tell me guys, most of those Serbians from the K15 map, are they more similar to my Serbs or Croats?
I would guess they are like 40%+ East Euro Croats, where East Euro pulls them up and enough NW Euro too, which pulls them to the left.

You do understand that new Serbian average is still more southern than Croatian one.
What is your problem with our average?

[Jana]

@Ion, I score 47% Eastern European at 23andme, but ''only'' 32% Baltic on K13. So I don't think it translates to gedmatch entirely.

[Leto]

Let's not hijack the thread with Serbian and Croatian results.

[Pribislav]

How is Milković a Serb, you spoke with him? I wrote before Milković is common Lika Croat surname and I have a collague with same surname.
Same applies to Došen.

Ask CommonSense!

He posted his K13 and K13 of his cousins.

Here are surnames of Banija Serbs, MILKOVIĆ is writen down among M https://banija.rs/obicaji/16171-imena-i-prezimena-banijskih-srba-3.html

[Jana]

Btw, Hrvoje who is real Zagreb Croat scores similar to me, not like academic Croatian average and he is half Slovenian plus 1/8 Czech.

[Ion Basescul]

@Ion, I score 47% Eastern European at 23andme, but ''only'' 32% Baltic on K13. So I don't think it translates to gedmatch entirely.

It seems to translate, because I score 43.5% EEuro and 29% Baltic. Why should I believe that those Serbs with 10-20% EEuro should score 30% on average?
Unless someone can show me that the majority of Serbs score between 40-50% East Euro on 23andme, then I would obviously not have any counterarguments.

[Jana]

Ask CommonSense!

He posted his K13 and K13 of his cousins.

Here are surnames of Banija Serbs, MILKOVIĆ is writen down among M https://banija.rs/obicaji/16171-imena-i-prezimena-banijskih-srba-3.html

That is not enough to include him because it means you don't know is he Serb or Croat.
His results are more typical for Croats. You should include him only if he told one of you he is a Serb.


Milković families are mainly Croats and they are mostly from Gospic area and according to some sources from Dubrovacko primorje (Mravinjac) or Vrlika and Herzegovina, rarely Serbs and Hungarians. In the past century, relatively most of Croatian residents bearing this family name were born in Zagreb and in Gospic area. In places Selo Sveti Marko and Malo Polje in Gospic area every second inhabitant had the family name Milković.

[Pribislav]

Send me kit numbers to add.

On Serbian thread. Leto is right, we went to far here. This is thread about Moldavian genetic.

[Jana]

And I score 43.5% EEuro and 29% Baltic. Why should I believe that those Serbs with 10-20% EEuro should score 30% on average?
Unless someone can show me that the majority of Serbs score between 40-50% East Euro on 23andme, then I would obviously not have any counterarguments.

I agree, 90% of Serbian results posted here are from so called western Serbs. Even most Serbs on their genetic forums have such ancestry.
Western Serbs are not majority of Serbs.

[Pribislav]

That is not enough to include him because it means you don't know is he Serb or Croat.
His results are more typical for Croats. You should include him only if he told one of you he is a Serb.

Stop trolling Moldavians ustaša woman! CS posted his result on South Slavic & neighbours as Serbian result, and I got his kit as Serb kit. He is not different than Lika Serb and East Bosnia Serbian woman with 35% Baltic posted by you.

[Dušan]

I agree, 90% of Serbian results posted here are from so called western Serbs. Even most Serbs on their genetic forums have such ancestry.
Western Serbs are not majority of Serbs.

Shut the fuck up disgusting Croat bitch.
We are Serbs, we are living in Serbia, and have full right to be counted in Serbian average.

[Jana]

It seems to translate, because I score 43.5% EEuro and 29% Baltic. Why should I believe that those Serbs with 10-20% EEuro should score 30% on average?
Unless someone can show me that the majority of Serbs score between 40-50% East Euro on 23andme, then I would obviously not have any counterarguments.

They don't btw. Most Serbs score between 15-20% indeed, including my matches.

[Jana]

Shut the fuck up disgusting Croat bitch.
We are Serbs, we are living in Serbia, and have full right to be counted in Serbian average.

Learn some manners, complexed Serb. I didn't insult you, and ofcourse you should be counted.
I just said most of people who are tested among Serbs are western Serbs, not average Serbs from Serbia proper who seem to care much less about genetics than you do.

Also, you will be reported to Loki next time you insult me, I will demand your ban. Speak this way to your mother and sister.

[Dušan]

It seems to translate, because I score 43.5% EEuro and 29% Baltic. Why should I believe that those Serbs with 10-20% EEuro should score 30% on average?
Unless someone can show me that the majority of Serbs score between 40-50% East Euro on 23andme, then I would obviously not have any counterarguments.

I live in Serbia and I am almost 34% Baltic.
And my phenotype is like average Serb.

https://i.imgur.com/spcWrAS.jpg

Still dont believe that average Baltic for Serbs is 30%?

[vbnetkhio]

10-20% EEuro should score 30% on average?

they do. 23andme exagurates your main admixture and decreases your minor ones.
it's because of this:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38231-23andMe-s-methodology-artificially-purifies-your-ancestry-results

this is the same person on 23andme and k13:

Southern European
81.0%
Eastern European
15.1%
Northwestern European
0.4%
Broadly European
3.3%

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.63
2 North_Atlantic 25.09
3 East_Med 16.52
4 West_Med 16.48
5 West_Asian 9.3
6 South_Asian 2.65
7 Red_Sea 1.05
8 Oceanian 0.2
9 Northeast_African 0.08
10 East_Asian 0.01

[Jana]

Stop trolling Moldavians ustaša woman! CS posted his result on South Slavic & neighbours as Serbian result, and I got his kit as Serb kit. He is not different than Lika Serb and East Bosnia Serbian woman with 35% Baltic posted by you.

I posted it as well, but I tought he is a Croat. Unlike you, Commonsense is a decent poster and I trust everything he posts.

[Ion Basescul]

I live in Serbia and I am almost 34% Baltic.
And my phenotype is like average Serb.

https://i.imgur.com/spcWrAS.jpg

Still dont believe that average Baltic for Serbs is 30%?

Nope, I actually googled and Krajina sits at the border with Croatia and also very close to the Hungarian admixed Vojvodina. We also have mixed Moldovans with 40% Baltic and they are not average. The same can be said about those with 22%.

[Dušan]

Nope, I actually googled and Krajina sits at the border with Croatia and also very close to the Hungarian admixed Vojvodina. We also have mixed Moldovans with 40% Baltic and they are not average. The same can be said about those with 22%.

So? We didn't mixed with them, we have lived in our homogeneous villages, separated from them. There was always deep despise and hate between Croats and Serbs for generations.
I don't have hardly any Croatian matches in Gedmatch. In fact, I have even few Albanians, but Croats less than that.

[Ion Basescul]

So? We didn't mixed with them, we have lived in our homogeneous villages, separated from them. There was always deep despise and hate between Croats and Serbs for generations.
I don't have hardly any Croatian matches in Gedmatch. In fact, I have even few Albanians, but Croats less than that.

I don't know. I don't question your ethnic determination, but it's interesting because I cluster with Croats, Bosnians and some Slovenes everywhere from 23andme to MyHeritage, Davidski's Global 25 sheet, and old Eurogenes samples.
I'm usually quite far from Serbs, who cluster with non-Moldavian Romanians, but with amateurishly collected samples, it seems that Serbs have suddenly become Croatian-like. Kind of makes one wonder what's happening.

[vbnetkhio]

I don't know. I don't question your ethnic determination, but it's interesting because I cluster with Croats, Bosnians and some Slovenes everywhere from 23andme to MyHeritage, Davidski's Global 25 sheet, and old Eurogenes samples.
I'm usually quite far from Serbs, who cluster with non-Moldavian Romanians, but with amateurishly collected samples, it seems that Serbs have suddenly become Croatian-like. Kind of makes one wonder what's happening.

the Serbian in Eurogenes k13 and k15 was probably just one person's result, and not an average. global 25 also has only 5 Serbs who aren't very representative.

what do you get in 23andme and my heritage?

[Dušan]

I don't know. I don't question your ethnic determination, but it's interesting because I cluster with Croats, Bosnians and some Slovenes everywhere from 23andme to MyHeritage, Davidski's Global 25 sheet, and old Eurogenes samples.
I'm usually quite far from Serbs, who cluster with non-Moldavian Romanians, but with amateurishly collected samples, it seems that Serbs have suddenly become Croatian-like. Kind of makes one wonder what's happening.

There is nothing "Croatian-like" in Serbian results.

You dont need to believe what is Serbian average, I don't care.
I know that I am with my results closer to Serbian than to Croatian population.

[Jana]

^^^^Ion, I think uncomfortable truth is dinaric Slavs are very similar people, apart from Montenegrins who have stronger Albanian influence observable in their YDNA and autosomal.
I really want no similarity with Serbs, but it's quite obvious from tons of shared surnames and matching those aren't pretty different.

I would say NW Croats and SE Serbs form clusters on their own, former being west-slavic like and later being east balkan like, but others are quite similar including Bosniaks who descend from both.

Here is South Croat average I composed out of academic Split Croats, Morlach and Slavic cluster.

South_Croat_average,25.97,31.99,16.29,7.83,13.15,1 .91,0.47,0.26,0.66,0.58,0.46,0.12,0.19

Distance to: South_Croat_average

0.89679290 Serbian_Bosnia
0.92903175 Croat_Split
2.46288909 Bosnian
2.56700214 Croatian_new
2.92249893 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.10478663 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.11250402 Croat_Bosnia
3.17259221 Serbian_new
3.26658843 Serb_Croatia
3.91149588 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster

[Jana]

the Serbian in Eurogenes k13 and k15 was probably just one person's result, and not an average. global 25 also has only 5 Serbs who aren't very representative.

what do you get in 23andme and my heritage?

I wonder about Serb samples used in academic papers, not speaking about gedmatch, those are really very different from Croats and even Bosniaks and much more Balkan.
examples

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4141785/
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820

[CommonSense]

How is Milković a Serb, you spoke with him? I wrote before Milković is common Lika Croat surname and I have a collague with same surname.
Same applies to Došen and Zubović ( to add,I don't know any Zubović irl but it's really common name among Croats)

It's a normal surname among Serbs, exists even in people from Kosovo:

https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/02/24/poreklo-prezimena-milkovic/?lang=lat

[Jana]

It's a normal surname among Serbs, exists even in people from Kosovo:

https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/02/24/poreklo-prezimena-milkovic/?lang=lat

Normal surname among Croats as well, my friend with same surname is from fully Croat place in Lika.
Which brings me to question: how is it possible we have so many same surnames (like Došen) , but we have nothing to do with each other? :rolleyes:

[Jana]

I wanted to mail some of samples I found on gedmatch to find out their exact anestry for my Croatian database but I am afraid some of those I think are Croats may be Serbs so that's why I didn't mail them yet.
Point is not once I had difficulty to guess who is who based on surnames and gedmatch results alone and I know you are too.

[Ion Basescul]

the Serbian in Eurogenes k13 and k15 was probably just one person's result, and not an average. global 25 also has only 5 Serbs who aren't very representative.

what do you get in 23andme and my heritage?

Look in my signature, the "Autosomal DNA (https://imgur.com/a/2qgHTA1)" link.

[Pribislav]

It's a normal surname among Serbs, exists even in people from Kosovo:

https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/02/24/poreklo-prezimena-milkovic/?lang=lat

Of course.

Except Milković, also exist Miljković, Malković and Maljković.

John Malkovich possible have Serbian paternal origin from Lika, it was written about that on Poreklo.

[Jana]

Of course.

Except Milković, also exist Miljković, Malković and Maljković.

John Malkovich possible have Serbian paternal origin from Lika, it was written about that on Poreklo.

No he isn't, he is half Croat from Ozalj but I am not suprised, your experts will find Serb origin in just about everyone. Sick.

[vbnetkhio]

I wonder about Serb samples used in academic papers, not speaking about gedmatch, those are really very different from Croats and even Bosniaks and much more Balkan.

this is them:
https://i.imgur.com/C9r27oW.png

it's a good average, if this was in k13 i would get Serbian first instead of Moldavian like i do now.

and these are the academic Bosniaks from Sarajevo, pretty similar, just more Baltic.:
Bosnian,24.83,31.82,15.17,8.94,14.02,1.63,1.59,0.5 7,0.58,0.37,0.34,0.01,0.08

[Jana]

this is them:
https://i.imgur.com/C9r27oW.png

it's a good average, if this was in k13 i would get Serbian first instead of Moldavian like i do now.

and these are the academic Bosniaks from Sarajevo, pretty similar, just more Baltic.:
Bosnian,24.83,31.82,15.17,8.94,14.02,1.63,1.59,0.5 7,0.58,0.37,0.34,0.01,0.08

Both should be added to gedmatch than. :)

[CommonSense]

Normal surname among Croats as well, my friend with same surname is from fully Croat place in Lika.
Which brings me to question: how is it possible we have so many same surnames (like Došen) , but we have nothing to do with each other? :rolleyes:

It's the people with origins from the shotakvian-speaking areas like Herzegovina that have common surnames. My great grandmother's maiden surname was Sertić, it's an old Croatian surname and easily recognisable as non-Serbian.

[Jana]

It's the people with origins from the shotakvian-speaking areas like Herzegovina that have common surnames. My great grandmother's maiden surname was Sertić, it's an old Croatian surname and easily recognisable as non-Serbian.

Bosnia too. Marković is very common among both. And many others.

[vbnetkhio]

Both should be added to gedmatch than. :)

They already are. Bosnians used to be too, but they were deleted.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?301242-Balkans-Central-Europe-Ukraine-academic-samples-on-gedmatch

[CommonSense]

Bosnia too. Marković is very common among both.

That's actually very common in every South Slavic country and region. In Macedonia you have people with the surname Markovski and in Bulgaria Markov.

[Ion Basescul]

this is them:
https://i.imgur.com/C9r27oW.png

it's a good average, if this was in k13 i would get Serbian first instead of Moldavian like i do now.

and these are the academic Bosniaks from Sarajevo, pretty similar, just more Baltic.:
Bosnian,24.83,31.82,15.17,8.94,14.02,1.63,1.59,0.5 7,0.58,0.37,0.34,0.01,0.08

Now that's more inline with what I was referring to, when I started all this shitstorm.

[vbnetkhio]

^^^^Ion, I think uncomfortable truth is dinaric Slavs are very similar people, apart from Montenegrins who have stronger Albanian influence observable in their YDNA and autosomal.
I really want no similarity with Serbs, but it's quite obvious from tons of shared surnames and matching those aren't pretty different.

I would say NW Croats and SE Serbs form clusters on their own, former being west-slavic like and later being east balkan like, but others are quite similar including Bosniaks who descend from both.

Here is South Croat average I composed out of academic Split Croats, Morlach and Slavic cluster.

South_Croat_average,25.97,31.99,16.29,7.83,13.15,1 .91,0.47,0.26,0.66,0.58,0.46,0.12,0.19

Distance to: South_Croat_average

0.89679290 Serbian_Bosnia
0.92903175 Croat_Split
2.46288909 Bosnian
2.56700214 Croatian_new
2.92249893 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.10478663 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.11250402 Croat_Bosnia
3.17259221 Serbian_new
3.26658843 Serb_Croatia
3.91149588 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster

How do you measure Albanian influence, with E-V13 :rolleyes: ?

[Daos777]

How do you measure Albanian influence, with E-V13 :rolleyes: ?

Yeah. Every E-V13 is a little Albanian

[Nurzat]

yes, 23andme doesn't seem to be in line with all calcs - I'm 42% East Euro and 46% Balkan on there but only 31% Baltic on K13.

btw best Yugo names are Puljić and Pizdić / Пуљић & Пиздић / Pulici and Pizdici

[Daos777]

yes, 23andme doesn't seem to be in line with all calcs - I'm 42% East Euro and 46% Balkan on there but only 31% Baltic on K13.

btw best Yugo names are Puljić and Pizdić / Пуљић & Пиздић / Pulici and Pizdici

It’s because those two numbers aren’t linearly correlated with each other. Pure Russians who are 100 percent Eastern Euro on 23 and Me are not 100 percent Baltic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nurzat]

It’s because those two numbers aren’t linearly correlated with each other. Pure Russians who are 100 percent Eastern Euro on 23 and Me are not 100 percent Baltic.

ўэй да ту молдовінешті воргешть? саў нума русэшті? ту дін МССР/РССМ, да?

[Jana]

How do you measure Albanian influence, with E-V13 :rolleyes: ?

Maybe I should have said Paleo-Balkan. It's noticable in both ydna and autosomal.

[Daos777]

ўэй да ту молдовінешті воргешть? саў нума русэшті? ту дін МССР/РССМ, да?

Moldavenesti nu воргешть.

Toliko po russki govoru

[vbnetkhio]

Now that's more inline with what I was referring to, when I started all this shitstorm.

well if us having 28% instead of 30% Baltic makes you happy, believe it. :D

i still think we are around 30%. see that bunch of samples with 24-26% Baltic? they would get 99% Greek&Balkan in 23andme. and most Serbs get 10-20% EE in 23andme as you said.

how do you compare to this average btw?

Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04

[Leto]

well if us having 28% instead of 30% Baltic makes you happy, believe it. :D

i still think we are around 30%. see that bunch of samples with 24-26% Baltic? they would get 99% Greek&Balkan in 23andme. and most Serbs get 10-20% EE in 23andme as you said.

how do you compare to this average btw?

Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04
Dude, IB thinks the half Tzigane Mortimer looks like an average Serb :rolleyes:

[CommonSense]

Dude, IB thinks the half Tzigane Mortimer looks like an average Serb :rolleyes:

Did he actually say that?

[Leto]

Did he actually say that?
Yep, he said he looked to him what he would imagine Serbs looking like.

[Dušan]

Yep, he said he looked to him what he would imagine Serbs looking like.

LOL He obviously has some prejudice toward us.

[Ion Basescul]

well if us having 28% instead of 30% Baltic makes you happy, believe it. :D

i still think we are around 30%. see that bunch of samples with 24-26% Baltic? they would get 99% Greek&Balkan in 23andme. and most Serbs get 10-20% EE in 23andme as you said.

how do you compare to this average btw?

Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04


<tbody>
Distance to:
Ion_Basescul_23andme+LivingDNA


4.41248229
Romania_Moldavia_North


4.89598815
Moldova_North


4.94718102
Romania_Moldavia


5.16774612
Moldova_Centre


5.43127057
Moldova


5.46533622
Serbian_Belgrade_academic


5.83460367
Romania_Moldavia_South


7.87489048
Romanian


8.50426952
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes


8.75925796
Croatian


9.18701801
Hungarian


9.54794219
Moldova_South


10.48739720
Bulgarian


13.57386091
Austrian


14.96605492
East_German


15.66258919
Ukrainian_Lviv


16.49787259
South_Polish


17.12165880
Ukrainian


20.16939513
West_German


20.24129195
Greek_Thessaly


20.38253910
Tatar


20.69568554
Polish


20.71534697
Southwest_Russian


20.99025726
Ukrainian_Belgorod


21.88208400
South_Dutch



</tbody>

[Jana]

^^^^how do you compare with these 2?

Croatian_new,27.49,33.14,15.16,7.79,14.31,1.74,0.9 7,0.30,0.51,0.67,0.33,0.09,0.13
South_Croat_average,25.97,31.99,16.29,7.83,13.15,1 .91,0.47,0.26,0.66,0.58,0.46,0.12,0.19

[Ion Basescul]

LOL He obviously has some prejudice toward us.

I don't, how is he any different from some full Serbs? Serbia has a lot of phenotypes, just like any other country.

I don't know if Leto's ever been to Serbia, but I have, so I stand by my opinion.
There's no reason for me to have anything against Serbs. You guys are pretty much terra incognita for someone in my region.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0802/360_kosovo_rally_0222.jpg
https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3361421.1491766668!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

^^^^how do you compare with these 2?

Croatian_new,27.49,33.14,15.16,7.79,14.31,1.74,0.9 7,0.30,0.51,0.67,0.33,0.09,0.13
South_Croat_average,25.97,31.99,16.29,7.83,13.15,1 .91,0.47,0.26,0.66,0.58,0.46,0.12,0.19


<tbody>
Distance to:
Ion_Basescul_23andme+LivingDNA


4.41248229
Romania_Moldavia_North


4.60249932
South_Croat_average


4.89598815
Moldova_North


4.94718102
Romania_Moldavia


5.16774612
Moldova_Centre


5.43127057
Moldova


5.46533622
Serbian_Belgrade_academic


5.83460367
Romania_Moldavia_South


5.84774315
Croatian_new


7.87489048
Romanian


8.50426952
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes


8.75925796
Croatian


9.18701801
Hungarian


9.54794219
Moldova_South


10.48739720
Bulgarian


13.57386091
Austrian


14.96605492
East_German


15.66258919
Ukrainian_Lviv


16.49787259
South_Polish


17.12165880
Ukrainian


20.16939513
West_German


20.24129195
Greek_Thessaly


20.38253910
Tatar


20.69568554
Polish


20.71534697
Southwest_Russian

</tbody>

[Dušan]

I don't, how is he any different from some full Serbs? Serbia has a lot of phenotypes, just like any other country.

I don't know if Leto's ever been to Serbia, but I have, so I stand by my opinion.
There's no reason for me to have anything against Serbs. You guys are pretty much terra incognita for someone in my region.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0802/360_kosovo_rally_0222.jpg
https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3361421.1491766668!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg


No, Morti doesnt look like ethnic Serb.

If we are terra incognita why are you desperately arguing that it is impossible that average Baltic among Serbs is 30%?

[Ion Basescul]

No, Morti doesnt look like ethnic Serb.

If we are terra incognita why are you desperately arguing that it is impossible that average Baltic among Serbs is 30%?

Because first of all it's different compared to credible, non-amateurishly collected sources.
And secondly the difference between Serbs and Croats is pretty starking on commercial tests.

Certainly that can't be explained by a mere 3% difference in Baltic between Serbs (30%) and Croats (33%).

You can choose to believe what you want and so will I.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Ig[/img]

Morti does not look like a Serb lol, he looks like a well-mannered Gypsy.

[Jana]

Serbian academic average from Belgrade is closest to Romanians from Moldova, exactly what some Serbs here want, so you should stop whining.

Distance to: Serbian_Belgrade_academic

1.44551029 Romania_Moldavia_average
1.70830325 Romania_Moldavia_South
1.84913493 Romanian_Average
2.15622355 Bulgarian_Pleven
2.50225898 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
2.50876464 Romania_Moldavia_North
2.80663500 Moldova_average
2.85314086 Serbian_new
3.00419706 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.17997826 Montenegrin
3.22507364 Serb_Croatia
3.51540894 Romanian_Transylvania
3.60070826 Moldova_Centre
3.63024793 Vlach_Timok
3.85272631 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.17329673 Macedonian
4.28925401 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.42793406 Romanian_Oltenia
5.32354669 Bosnian
5.37816883 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.63745510 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.67766677 Macedonian_Northwest
5.79951722 Croat_Split
5.80700331 Serbian_Bosnia
5.89123926 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora

[Jana]

Morti does not look like a Serb lol, he looks like a well-mannered Gypsy.

He looks Gypsy more or less yes, but there are ethnic Serbs who look less white than Mortimer.
This guy is minister in Serbian government and extreme nationalist.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Aleksandar_Vulin-mc.rs.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

Serbian academic average from Belgrade is closest to Romanians from Moldova, exactly what some Serbs here want, so you should stop whining.

Distance to: Serbian_Belgrade_academic

1.44551029 Romania_Moldavia_average
1.70830325 Romania_Moldavia_South
1.84913493 Romanian_Average
2.15622355 Bulgarian_Pleven
2.50225898 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
2.50876464 Romania_Moldavia_North
2.80663500 Moldova_average
2.85314086 Serbian_new
3.00419706 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.17997826 Montenegrin
3.22507364 Serb_Croatia
3.51540894 Romanian_Transylvania
3.60070826 Moldova_Centre
3.63024793 Vlach_Timok
3.85272631 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.17329673 Macedonian
4.28925401 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.42793406 Romanian_Oltenia
5.32354669 Bosnian
5.37816883 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.63745510 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.67766677 Macedonian_Northwest
5.79951722 Croat_Split
5.80700331 Serbian_Bosnia
5.89123926 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora

Does this change much?
Before this, it was also obvious that there is a genetic continuum throughout the Northern half of Southeast Europe, so from R. Moldova to Croatia and down to Montenegro and Bulgaria.

[Dušan]

Because first of all it's different compared to credible, non-amateurishly collected sources.
And secondly the difference between Serbs and Croats is pretty starking on commercial tests.

Certainly that can't be explained by a mere 3% difference in Baltic between Serbs (30%) and Croats (33%).

You can choose to believe what you want and so will I.

I dont have to believe to anything, as I have 33.78% Baltic and I am closer to Serbian population than to Croatian.

[vbnetkhio]

Because first of all it's different compared to credible, non-amateurishly collected sources.

the only non-amateurish source we have are those Belgrade Serbs and they are pretty similar to Serbian_New. look at other components, not only Baltic.



And secondly the difference between Serbs and Croats is pretty starking on commercial tests.


did you read that Eupedia post about 23andme's algorithm?

[Dušan]

Because first of all it's different compared to credible, non-amateurishly collected sources.
And secondly the difference between Serbs and Croats is pretty starking on commercial tests.

Certainly that can't be explained by a mere 3% difference in Baltic between Serbs (30%) and Croats (33%).

You can choose to believe what you want and so will I.

I dont have to believe to anything, as I have 33.78% Baltic and I am closer to Serbian population than to Croatian.

[Jana]

Does this change much?
Before this, it was also obvious that there is a genetic continuum throughout the Northern half of Southeast Europe, so from R. Moldova to Croatia and down to Montenegro and Bulgaria.

I mean Dušan claims Serbs are almost same as Moldovans, and here he has his wish fullfilled. Belgrade sample is closest to them and different from Croats.
So he shouldn't complain about it.

[Jana]

I dont have to believe to anything, as I have 33.78% Baltic and I am closer to Serbian population than to Croatian.

I doubt you are with updated averages. But we know, you won't run them out of fear xD :lol: