Northern Europeans Differ from Southern Europeans

[The Lawspeaker]

Northern Europeans Differ from Southern Europeans
An international team of scientists lead by researchers at UC Davis Health System has found that genetically, modern Europeans fall into two groups: Northern and Southern (Mediterranean).

The findings, published in Public Library of Science Genetics, provide a method for scientists to take into account European ancestry when looking for genes involved in diseases.

"Until now, little has been known about the distribution of genetic variation in European populations and how much that distribution matters in terms of doing genetic studies" said Michael Seldin, chair of the Rowe Program in Genetics. "Now we will be able to control for these differences in European populations in our efforts to find genes that cause common diseases".

Seldin and his colleagues compared genetic data for 928 individuals. They studied 5,700 single nucleotide polymorphisms

(SNPs). SNPs are changes in which a single base in the DNA differs from the usual base at that position.

The human genome contains millions of them. Some SNPs cause disease, like the one responsible for sickle cell anemia. Others are normal variations in the genome. People with common ancestry will have many SNPs in common.

They tried to find these SNPs among Europeans. "We saw a clustering of individuals that come from either southern Europe or derived from populations that left southern Europe, or the Mediterranean, in the last 2,000 years", Seldin said.

The team identified a set of 400 informative SNP markers that scientists could now use to control for European ancestry when conducting genetic studies of disease, response to drug treatment, or side effects from therapy.

The data are also of interest to study historical human migrations. The Southern grouping included individuals from the Mediterranean zone (Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain), as well as Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. The Northern group included people with English, Irish, German, Swedish and Ukranian ancestry. These groups correspond to those historically and geographically divided by the Pyrenees and Alps mountain ranges.

Previous studies have found four distinct genetic human populations (groups) which SNPs correlate broadly with continental ancestry: Asia, Africa, Oceania, America and continental Europe. The new study further subdivides people with European ancestry into the Northern and Southern groups.

The researchers analyzed two sets of data to prove this. They looked at SNPs associated with rheumatoid arthritis and found that, when they corrected for ancestry, several of the genes that were previously believed to be good candidates for being involved in the disease were no longer candidates at all. They also corrected for ancestry in a data set looking at lactose intolerance. "When we did not control for differences in population structure, we got a lot of false associations", Seldin explained.

Seldin and his colleagues will soon be expanding the current European study by looking at 500,000 SNPs. They also have plans for similar studies of other continental populations and for further defining different subpopulations.

Seldin said studies of other continents and ethnic groups are necessary if science is to get the most out of the advances made by the Human Genome Project. "The ultimate aim of these studies is to be able to better define subgroups and use this information to eliminate false associations, giving us a better chance of finding true associations for disease genes", Seldin said.


Source: Softpedia (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nothern-Europeans-Differ-From-Southern-Europeans-35702.shtml)


(Thank you, Groenewolf, for putting this article on Facebook)

[Ouistreham]

The Southern grouping included individuals from the Mediterranean zone (Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain), as well as Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. The Northern group included people with English, Irish, German, Swedish and Ukranian ancestry. These groups correspond to those historically and geographically divided by the Pyrenees and Alps mountain ranges.

— ... And as usual, the French are left in the middle of nowhere ;)

[Damião de Góis]

— ... And as usual, the French are left in the middle of nowhere ;)

The French are the bridge between those two groups in all genetic plots i've seen. Their absence will cause a gap in the Euro cluster.

[Albion]

Where does the North start and the south end? In my opinion around Paris.

[Crossbow]

Where does the North start and the south end? In my opinion around Paris.

I would rather say Lyon.

[Ibericus]

Seldin and his colleagues compared genetic data for 928 individuals. They studied 5,700 single nucleotide polymorphisms

(SNPs). SNPs are changes in which a single base in the DNA differs from the usual base at that position.

Only 5,700 SNP's ? Sorry but that's crap. Dodecad or Eurogenes use hundred of thousands of SNP's. In the last v3 run used 166.000 SNP's.

[CelticTemplar]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph not this bloody topic again...

[Ibericus]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph not this bloody topic again...
It's not a msyery that there are differences between North and South, altough there are not cut-offs like this article pretends, there is a continuum, and there is also a West-East axis, not just North-South. For example, at 23andMe, Iberians are right in the space between North and South :

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/6562/iberians.png

[Bridie]

You don't need genetic analyses to determine that there are significant differences between not only northern and southern Europe, but also western and eastern...

[Anthropologique]

Actually, the division of north and south is exceedingly simplistic. The researchers should look to codify populations as North, North-west, South-West, South-East, East and Central. There are enough genetic differences between the six to justify the division.

[Anthropologique]

Only 5,700 SNP's ? Sorry but that's crap. Dodecad or Eurogenes use hundred of thousands of SNP's. In the last v3 run used 166.000 SNP's.

I started to laugh when I saw the tiny number of SNPs utilized. And they call themselves scientists?:rolleyes:

[Loki]

Seems us armchair internet anthropologists already know more than these scientists. ;) Europe's genetic origins are much more complex than a mere north-south cut - the majority of populations contain little minorities of the others, except for Scandinavia which doesn't seem to have any SE - but then again they have other inputs like Baltic and Eastern European.

[Moonbird]

Seems us armchair internet anthropologists already know more than these scientists. ;)

Maybe because the text is from 2006?

[Pallantides]

Seems us armchair internet anthropologists already know more than these scientists. ;) Europe's genetic origins are much more complex than a mere north-south cut - the majority of populations contain little minorities of the others, except for Scandinavia which doesn't seem to have any SE - but then again they have other inputs like Baltic and Eastern European.

There are a few Norwegians who have 20% Mediterranean admixture on Dodecad.
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4697/dodecadn.png

[billErobreren]

Isn't this topic a little outdated...moving on

[Loki]

There are a few Norwegians who have 20% Mediterranean admixture on Dodecad.


Yeah, unfortunately the tools we have available right now don't have a sufficiently large sample population. Things will become more clear when that increases over time.

[South Europa]

5,000 SNPs is plenty to give a solid picture of genetic structure. It was more than enough obviously just being able to seperate an extremely homogenous continent like Europe. Just 6 years ago that kind of data was not even available.

However, newer studies are being based on hundreds of thousands of SNPS..which can further separate the North and South of Europe..genetically.

In the Seldin et al study the original topic starter brought up, it shows North and Central Europeans forming one major genetic block, and Southern Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews forming the other one.

In this newer study by Tian et al. from 2008 based 300,000 SNPs showed that we can distinguish even those two genetic blocks.


European population genetic substructure was examined in a diverse set of >1,000 individuals of European descent, each genotyped with >300 K SNPs. Both STRUCTURE and principal component analyses (PCA) showed the largest division/principal component (PC) differentiated northern from southern European ancestry. A second PC further separated Italian, Spanish, and Greek individuals from those of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry as well as distinguishing among northern European populations. In separate analyses of northern European participants other substructure relationships were discerned showing a west to east gradient.

Link : http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.0040004

[Ibericus]

5,000 SNPs is plenty to give a solid picture of genetic structure. It was more than enough obviously just being able to seperate an extremely homogenous continent like Europe. Just 6 years ago that kind of data was not even available.

However, newer studies are being based on hundreds of thousands of SNPS..which can further separate the North and South of Europe..genetically.

In the Seldin et al study the original topic starter brought up, it shows North and Central Europeans forming one major genetic block, and Southern Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews forming the other one.

In this newer study by Tian et al. from 2008 based 300,000 SNPs showed that we can distinguish even those two genetic blocks.



Link : http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.0040004
Because that study didn't have French people, who are a bridge between southerns and germanics. There is not a separation between south and North, what there is a continuum.

[Septentrion]

— ... And as usual, the French are left in the middle of nowhere ;)

It all has to do with France's geographical location.

[Profileid]

Because that study didn't have French people, who are a bridge between southerns and germanics. There is not a separation between south and North, what there is a continuum.

7 years of OWD...

[Ibericus]

7 years of OWD...
Retard, what is not true about what I said ? There's a genetic continnum between South and North-Europe, not a "wide gap". Just look at any PCA plot.

[Cristiano viejo]

7 years of OWD...

20, in your case.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Retard, what is not true about what I said ? There's a genetic continnum between South and North-Europe, not a "wide gap". Just look at any PCA plot.


There is continuum all the way to Cypriots and Sephardi... Deal with it.

[JohnSmith]

Retard, what is not true about what I said ? There's a genetic continnum between South and North-Europe, not a "wide gap". Just look at any PCA plot.

Like Dog Breeds all dogs are more closely related to each other than to a wolf no-matter how much one looks like a wolf.

Southern and Northern Europeans have many similarities such as most carry light hair and eye genes even if they do not show up in all generations as they can be recessive on darker Europeans.

[Messier 67]

Northern Europeans Differ from Southern Europeans
An international team of scientists lead by researchers at UC Davis Health System has found that genetically, modern Europeans fall into two groups: Northern and Southern (Mediterranean).

The findings, published in Public Library of Science Genetics, provide a method for scientists to take into account European ancestry when looking for genes involved in diseases.

"Until now, little has been known about the distribution of genetic variation in European populations and how much that distribution matters in terms of doing genetic studies" said Michael Seldin, chair of the Rowe Program in Genetics. "Now we will be able to control for these differences in European populations in our efforts to find genes that cause common diseases".

Seldin and his colleagues compared genetic data for 928 individuals. They studied 5,700 single nucleotide polymorphisms

(SNPs). SNPs are changes in which a single base in the DNA differs from the usual base at that position.

The human genome contains millions of them. Some SNPs cause disease, like the one responsible for sickle cell anemia. Others are normal variations in the genome. People with common ancestry will have many SNPs in common.

They tried to find these SNPs among Europeans. "We saw a clustering of individuals that come from either southern Europe or derived from populations that left southern Europe, or the Mediterranean, in the last 2,000 years", Seldin said.

The team identified a set of 400 informative SNP markers that scientists could now use to control for European ancestry when conducting genetic studies of disease, response to drug treatment, or side effects from therapy.

The data are also of interest to study historical human migrations. The Southern grouping included individuals from the Mediterranean zone (Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain), as well as Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. The Northern group included people with English, Irish, German, Swedish and Ukranian ancestry. These groups correspond to those historically and geographically divided by the Pyrenees and Alps mountain ranges.

Previous studies have found four distinct genetic human populations (groups) which SNPs correlate broadly with continental ancestry: Asia, Africa, Oceania, America and continental Europe. The new study further subdivides people with European ancestry into the Northern and Southern groups.

The researchers analyzed two sets of data to prove this. They looked at SNPs associated with rheumatoid arthritis and found that, when they corrected for ancestry, several of the genes that were previously believed to be good candidates for being involved in the disease were no longer candidates at all. They also corrected for ancestry in a data set looking at lactose intolerance. "When we did not control for differences in population structure, we got a lot of false associations", Seldin explained.

Seldin and his colleagues will soon be expanding the current European study by looking at 500,000 SNPs. They also have plans for similar studies of other continental populations and for further defining different subpopulations.

Seldin said studies of other continents and ethnic groups are necessary if science is to get the most out of the advances made by the Human Genome Project. "The ultimate aim of these studies is to be able to better define subgroups and use this information to eliminate false associations, giving us a better chance of finding true associations for disease genes", Seldin said.


Source: Softpedia (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nothern-Europeans-Differ-From-Southern-Europeans-35702.shtml)


(Thank you, Groenewolf, for putting this article on Facebook)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000080671982/2593fe77b0a4ff7e84fb76e1cea02005.jpeg

[MEDACHE]

sure they do, in the sense that southern europeans are far more better looking than nothern europeans.

[JohnSmith]

sure they do, in the sense that southern europeans are far more better looking than nothern europeans.

It is all subjective,,, the Diets are different,, Southerners tend to be healthier per capita vs the Northerners. However, the Northerners are more efficient running their economies, more productive, and are more stable for investors.

I suppose the UK does not fit the normal Northern European model as their model is some sense is similar to the Mediterranean Model in some aspects especially when it comes to government inefficiencies and weak safety nets.

[Septentrion]

It is all subjective,,, the Diets are different,, Southerners tend to be healthier per capita vs the Northerners. However, the Northerners are more efficient running their economies, more productive, and are more stable for investors.

I suppose the UK does not fit the normal Northern European model as their model is some sense is similar to the Mediterranean Model in some aspects especially when it comes to government inefficiencies and weak safety nets.

No, not your nonsense!!! Southern Europeans are much better-looking than Northern Europeans including the U.K.! How can one be more Northern-European than the U.K., they have the whitest skins with freckles and so on.

[JohnSmith]

No, not your nonsense!!! Southern Europeans are much better-looking than Northern Europeans including the U.K.! How can one be more Northern-European than the U.K., they have the whitest skins with freckles and so on.

That is not true,, there is plenty of variance in Europeans. Many Scandinavian and I have some in-laws that are Scandinavian descended can tan better than me.

[Jack_vorobey]

The ugliest people I've seen were portuguese and greeks.
The prettiest were the irish and swedes.

[Voskos]

The ugliest people I've seen were portuguese and greeks.
The prettiest were the irish and swedes.

true that.slavic looking greeks and turkish looking are the ugliest.turkish looking ones are usually smarter though

[alnortedelsur]

There is continuum all the way to Cypriots and Sephardi... Deal with it.

And in that continuum, PCA maps show Iberians as being very in the middle and farther away from Cypriots and Sephardi than from Central and Northern Europeans... Deal with it.

[StonyArabia]

Of course they do, they look different almost two different races to be honest

[alnortedelsur]

Of course they do, they look different almost two different races to be honest

Bullshit. There is a lot of more overlap between southern and North/Central Euros than commonly assumed.

Southern Euros might look different as group, but as individuals, most southern Euros (except a minority of "woggy" outliers) would not stand out as "ethnic" or "exotic" in lots of European mainland/non-Mediterranean countries.

[Cristiano viejo]

Of course they do, they look different almost two different races to be honest
For sure South Europeans look infinitely more like North Europeans than like MENAs, and people like you like to focus on a conexion between SE and MENAs, so go and figure.

[Leto]

Of course they do, they look different almost two different races to be honest
They are both European Caucasoids, there's no way in hell they can look like "different races".

[Leto]

Bullshit. There is a lot of more overlap between southern and North/Central Euros than commonly assumed.

Southern Euros might look different as group, but as individuals, most southern Euros (except a minority of "woggy" outliers) would not stand out as "ethnic" or "exotic" in lots of European mainland/non-Mediterranean countries.
Sicilians and Southernmost Italians as well as Greek Islanders are a minority even among Southern Europeans.

[Abu Bakr]

Sicilians and Southernmost Italians as well as Greek Islanders are a minority even among Southern Europeans.

Exotic looking (i.e. very hooked nosed or brown skinned) Sicilians, South Italians and Greek Islanders are a minority. Don't believe in troll galleries some members of this forum generally post. Most Sicilians and islanders still look distinctly European and ''white''. Southern European exoticness is exagerated in this forum.

[Aren]

For sure South Europeans look infinitely more like North Europeans than like MENAs, and people like you like to focus on a conexion between SE and MENAs, so go and figure.

How many times am I going to tell you this. The Spaniards you post are blonder than Scandinavians. You guys look far more northern.

[AK-47]

Exotic looking (i.e. very hooked nosed or brown skinned) Sicilians, South Italians and Greek Islanders are a minority. Don't believe in troll galleries some members of this forum generally post. Most Sicilians and islanders still look distinctly European and ''white''. Southern European exoticness is exagerated in this forum.
Sicilians are a blend and bridge between the Levant and southern Europe.
They look it, generally.
Most are on or near the level of hybred.

[Grace O'Malley]

All Europeans are related and we all share ancestry. I'm very interested in genetics because I find it fascinating but really all Europeans plot on a cline and it depends on your neighbours what populations you are closest to, where you are situated in Europe and your history. But whether Greek or Irish we all share history and genetics. I'm interested in all European countries but I'm also fascinated by people from all all over the world. I love hearing about other countries. I do post on Irish topics here and Irish genetics because I know more about that topic but I do follow other populations' genetics and have an interest in that. Other than Europe I think China and Japan are fascinating countries and have such a rich history. I wouldn't mind be Japanese, Chinese or Thai. :) Genetics to me is just science and impartial. Basically you are closest to your neighbours and if you are in Northern Europe you will share more genetics with other Northern Europeans and if you are in Southern Europe you will be closer to other people from that vicinity. In short though Southern Europeans are of course closer to Northern Europeans. Duh! :)

[AK-47]

All Europeans are related and we all share ancestry. I'm very interested in genetics because I find it fascinating but really all Europeans plot on a cline and it depends on your neighbours what populations you are closest to, where you are situated in Europe and your history. But whether Greek or Irish we all share history and genetics. I'm interested in all European countries but I'm also fascinated by people from all all over the world. I love hearing about other countries. I do post on Irish topics here and Irish genetics because I know more about that topic but I do follow other populations' genetics and have an interest in that. Other than Europe I think China and Japan are fascinating countries and have such a rich history. I wouldn't mind be Japanese, Chinese or Thai. :) Genetics to me is just science and impartial. Basically you are closest to your neighbours and if you are in Northern Europe you will share more genetics with other Northern Europeans and if you are in Southern Europe you will be closer to other people from that vicinity. In short though Southern Europeans are of course closer to Northern Europeans. Duh! :)
Do you think a southern Italian/Sicilian, is closer genetically to a Swede than to a Lebanese Christian?

[Abu Bakr]

Sicilians are a blend and bridge between the Levant and southern Europe.
They look it, generally.
Most are on or near the level of hybred.

Shut up, Jew. You and your Jewish friend trolling Italians here to make them like Jews cannot fool anyone. ''Levantine'' admixture in South Italy is ludicrous and most South Italians still look distinctly Italian. And, no, don't come with gedmatch results of outliers claiming them to be typical. Most affinities between Sicilians and MENAs exist due to pre-Bronze Age ancestry, not IBD like in Jews.

Now you can return yto the trolling world with the master troll of this forum, a complexed mongrel who makes everything to relate Italians and Jews. This faggot should be hanged and torned to pieces if he ever visits Sicily.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Do you think a southern Italian/Sicilian, is closer genetically to a Swede than to a Lebanese Christian?

Do Lebanese Christians differ genetically from Lebanese Muslims?

[Abu Bakr]

The ones trolling South Euros are generally the same groups: Kikes, American mongrels and mixed Latinos. Always.

[renaissance12]

Shut up, Jew. You and your Jewish friend trolling Italians here to make them like Jews cannot fool anyone. ''Levantine'' admixture in South Italy is ludicrous and most South Italians still look distinctly Italian. And, no, don't come with gedmatch results of outliers claiming them to be typical. Most affinities between Sicilians and MENAs exist due to pre-Bronze Age ancestry, not IBD like in Jews.

Now you can return yto the trolling world with the master troll of this forum, a complexed mongrel who makes everything to relate Italians and Jews. This faggot should be hanged and torned to pieces if he ever visits Sicily.


What's wrong with Italy?

[AK-47]

Do Lebanese Christians differ genetically from Lebanese Muslims?

Yes they do.
More importantly they differ culturally.
In that region being a Christian can get you mass murdered.

[AK-47]

Shut up, Jew. You and your Jewish friend trolling Italians here to make them like Jews cannot fool anyone. ''Levantine'' admixture in South Italy is ludicrous and most South Italians still look distinctly Italian. And, no, don't come with gedmatch results of outliers claiming them to be typical. Most affinities between Sicilians and MENAs exist due to pre-Bronze Age ancestry, not IBD like in Jews.

Now you can return yto the trolling world with the master troll of this forum, a complexed mongrel who makes everything to relate Italians and Jews. This faggot should be hanged and torned to pieces if he ever visits Sicily.
Simmer down, dickhead.

[Abu Bakr]

What's wrong with Italy?

There's an agenda in this forum, by a complexed mongrel who owns it, to relate Italians (especially South Italians) with Lebanese. If you ever disagree or point out his delusions and the truth you'll got banned. Like many Italians have been banned before. The faggot isn't even fully Italian, he is a mix of Polish/Portuguese/Nigger/Sicilian and likely Jewish. Summing up: an American aberration with identity problems and dreams of being a mix of ancient Greek, Phoenician and Arabs.

[AK-47]

There's an agenda in this forum, by a complexed mongrel who owns it, to relate Italians (especially South Italians) with Lebanese. If you ever disagree or point out his delusions and the truth you'll got banned. Like many Italians have been banned before. The faggot isn't even fully Italian, he is a mix of Polish/Portuguese/Nigger/Sicilian and likely Jewish. Summing up: an American aberration with identity problems and dreams of being a mix of ancient Greek, Phoenician and Arabs.
You come on here a new member and starting hurling slurs and spewing ignorance.
Not a good start.:picard2:
Fact is that southern Italians and Sicilians are heavily admixed to the point of being on average near or at hybred levels with non European ancestry.
I'm 25% non Ashkenazi and that is mostly Scottish, and even I plot with central Italians on GEDmatch.
You don't like FACTS and SCIENCE?
Fine, be an asshole and get banned for acting like a rabid animal.

[renaissance12]

I'm Italian ( i can trace back my ancestors up to Venice's Doge 500 hundreds years ago ) and everybody knows in Italy that some Italians ( especially South-Italy ) look like lebanese/phoenicians

[Leto]

There's an agenda in this forum, by a complexed mongrel who owns it, to relate Italians (especially South Italians) with Lebanese. If you ever disagree or point out his delusions and the truth you'll got banned. Like many Italians have been banned before. The faggot isn't even fully Italian, he is a mix of Polish/Portuguese/Nigger/Sicilian and likely Jewish. Summing up: an American aberration with identity problems and dreams of being a mix of ancient Greek, Phoenician and Arabs.
Lol, why should a Saudi sandnibber care about that? Yeah, I know you are just a sock puppet :D

[Leto]

You are a Jew, a spiritually degenerate creature of Luciferian origins. You can be mixed with whatever you want, even Hyperboreans, you'll still retain the impurity of Jewish blood. If any ancestor of you was ever a Jew, you are corrupted forever. Gas chamber is the best place where you can pass.
Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than Sicilians on average and tend to pass as white in the US.

[Abu Bakr]

Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than Sicilians on average and tend to pass as white in the US.

Who cares (I'm not Sicilian btw)? The fact is they are corrupted forever; they can look like Kirk Douglas and will still be kikes, that's all.
I don't care about who is ''lighter'', that's anthrotard bullshit, what really matters is your ethno-cultural heritage. Sicilians and Jews are like day and night.

Sicilians are Europeans, Jews are rootless people (I don't consider them MENAs, just uprooted monsters).

[AK-47]

You are a Jew, a spiritually degenerate creature of Luciferian origins. You can be mixed with whatever you want, even Hyperboreans, you'll still retain the impurity of Jewish blood. If any ancestor of you was ever a Jew, you are corrupted forever. Gas chamber is the best place where you can pass.
You're are a sock-puppet, pretending to be a sand-negroid.
BTW, BOTH Jews and Arabs descend from Abraham, according to the book that you allegedly follow, the Koran...

What is your real screen-name and how many times have you been banned?
https://media.giphy.com/media/d3NjSIKlYXH2g/giphy.gif

[AK-47]

Shut up, Jew. You and your Jewish friend trolling Italians here to make them like Jews cannot fool anyone. ''Levantine'' admixture in South Italy is ludicrous and most South Italians still look distinctly Italian. And, no, don't come with gedmatch results of outliers claiming them to be typical. Most affinities between Sicilians and MENAs exist due to pre-Bronze Age ancestry, not IBD like in Jews.

Now you can return yto the trolling world with the master troll of this forum, a complexed mongrel who makes everything to relate Italians and Jews. This faggot should be hanged and torned to pieces if he ever visits Sicily.
If you had an IQ above room temp, you would realize you have it ass backwards.
We Jews are the ones with the Northern Italian ancestry.
I'm not trying to make Italians look like Jews, Ashkenazi Jews are hybrids, with Northern Italian maternal lines.

[AK-47]

Shut up, Jew. You and your Jewish friend trolling Italians here to make them like Jews cannot fool anyone. ''Levantine'' admixture in South Italy is ludicrous and most South Italians still look distinctly Italian. And, no, don't come with gedmatch results of outliers claiming them to be typical. Most affinities between Sicilians and MENAs exist due to pre-Bronze Age ancestry, not IBD like in Jews.

Now you can return yto the trolling world with the master troll of this forum, a complexed mongrel who makes everything to relate Italians and Jews. This faggot should be hanged and torned to pieces if he ever visits Sicily.
I think I figured out whose sock puppet you're.

Scar banned, sock of banned member Ouroboros.

[Cristiano viejo]

How many times am I going to tell you this. The Spaniards you post are blonder than Scandinavians. You guys look far more northern.

Stop persecuting me for every thread I post, brown being :thumb001:

[Oneeye]

"Nordicist" is the online equivalent to being called a "white supremacist"... which oddly people online seem to be less offended by.

[AK-47]

Shut up, Jew. You and your Jewish friend trolling Italians here to make them like Jews cannot fool anyone. ''Levantine'' admixture in South Italy is ludicrous and most South Italians still look distinctly Italian. And, no, don't come with gedmatch results of outliers claiming them to be typical. Most affinities between Sicilians and MENAs exist due to pre-Bronze Age ancestry, not IBD like in Jews.

Now you can return yto the trolling world with the master troll of this forum, a complexed mongrel who makes everything to relate Italians and Jews. This faggot should be hanged and torned to pieces if he ever visits Sicily.
Scar-sock, since you want to talk about the date of the MENA admixture of Sicilians/South Italians, and you think it is relevant, I might want to mention that the Northern Italian ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews is likely under 2000 and probably 1700 years old, so we're are indeed close kin.
Not that it matters, the MENA in Sicilians/southern Italians is similar or the same as in many modern Lebanese and has been passed down inter-generationally.
Scar, you were farting out the same lame talking points about IBD and dates of admixture on your last banned account.
Fact is TROLL, Italians have been admixed in waves of invasions dating back 1000s of years, to only centuries back.

[Leto]

Stop persecuting me for every thread I post, brown being :thumb001:
He may as well be light-skinned. Unless you have actually seen his photo which I haven't.

[Cristiano viejo]

He may as well be light-skinned. Unless you have actually seen his photo which I haven't.

The chances to not being brown which are.... 0,0000000000000000001%?

[Aren]

He may as well be light-skinned. Unless you have actually seen his photo which I haven't.

Trying to reason with Christiano is like trying to reason with a marxist, you are gonna feel dumber after trying.

[Dandelion]

Trying to reason with Christiano is like trying to reason with a marxist, you are gonna feel dumber after trying.

Cristiano is the Spanish Inquisition. He never gives an inch.

[Smeagol]

Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than Sicilians on average and tend to pass as white in the US.

It's not really passing, they're just white people.

[AK-47]

It's not really passing, they're just white people.
Literally not possible for me to pass as a non white.

[Leto]

The chances to not being brown which are.... 0,0000000000000000001%?
Not really. Assyrians have no Negro blood, neither do they have much South Asian blood. I'm poorly familiar with Assyrians in real life but since they are genetically close to Armenians, I'm sure there are many light-skinned Assyrians as well.

[Leto]

It's not really passing, they're just white people.
They are not Christian and identify with a Near Eastern country as their historical homeland.

[StonyArabia]

For sure South Europeans look infinitely more like North Europeans than like MENAs, and people like you like to focus on a conexion between SE and MENAs, so go and figure.

On the contrary. I never said there was connection between us and Southern Europeans. I always said we are distinct race. I also don't like how people exaggerate MENA connections to some Southern European nations. You have some Levantines/Assyrians who do such behavior. I am neither but an Arabian Bedouin, if anything I relate myself to Yemenite and Omanis before any European

[Smeagol]

They are not Christian and identify with a Near Eastern country as their historical homeland.

Race is biological, not cultural. They've been considered white since colonial times here anyway. They aren't very culturally Middle Eastern at all though. Most are secular and if asked where their ancestors come from will say Russia, Poland, Germany, etc..

[Leto]

Race is biological, not cultural. They've been considered white since colonial times here anyway. They aren't very culturally Middle Eastern at all though. Most are secular and if asked where their ancestors come from will say Russia, Poland, Germany, etc..
Whiteness is also a cultural thing, not only biological. As a white nationalist, you should know damn well why the Jews are generally excluded. They don't feel close to Europe, moreover many have resentments toward European Christians. I don't really wanna start this JQ debate again. Yes, phenotypically they pass as white and genetically they are as white as Southern Italians and Greek Islanders, but other than that the Jews are a thing of its own. They divide humanity into Jews and Gentiles first and foremost, not into whites, blacks, etc.

[AK-47]

They are not Christian and identify with a Near Eastern country as their historical homeland.
We aren't Christians, true.
But nether are millions of white atheists and agnostics in the USA, does that disqualify them from being white?
My homeland is the USA, the ancient homeland of the Israelites was in the Levant.
Ashkenazi Jews have strong genetic, cultural and linguistic ties to Europe.

[Cristiano viejo]

Not really. Assyrians have no Negro blood, neither do they have much South Asian blood. I'm poorly familiar with Assyrians in real life but since they are genetically close to Armenians, I'm sure there are many light-skinned Assyrians as well.

They can have Martian blood if you want, yet they are brown like the shit.

[Leto]

We aren't Christians, true.
But nether are millions of white atheists and agnostics in the USA, does that disqualify them from being white?
Well, they are 'cultural Christians' or at least belong to historically Christian nations.


My homeland is the USA, the ancient homeland of the Israelites was in the Levant.
Ashkenazi Jews have strong genetic, cultural and linguistic ties to Europe.
Good for you. You are assimilated. I'm not saying the Jews are a biologically different race or anything like that.

[Leto]

They can have Martian blood if you want, yet they are brown like the shit.
You're really dumb and stubborn. I almost never see you admitting that you're wrong. :picard1:

[Smeagol]

Whiteness is also a cultural thing, not only biological. As a white nationalist, you should know damn well why the Jews are generally excluded. They don't feel close to Europe, moreover many have resentments toward European Christians. I don't really wanna start this JQ debate again. Yes, phenotypically they pass as white and genetically they are as white as Southern Italians and Greek Islanders, but other than that the Jews are a thing of its own. They divide humanity into Jews and Gentiles first and foremost, not in whites, blacks, etc.

I have never called myself a white nationalist.
If whiteness is a cultural thing, Jews have always been part of that in America. They were considered white people from the beginning, so they've never had to pass as anything here. Americans in general don't feel close to Europe, and religious American Jews support Israel for religious reasons, same as white Evangelical Christians. They don't view themselves as Middle Eastern. The majority of Americans don't even view the Jews as an ethnic group.

[Cristiano viejo]

You're really dumb and stubborn. I almost never see you admitting that you're wrong. :picard1:

Wrong?? and am I the dumb?? 99% of them are brown as fuck. If you are blind is not my problem but dont come to my discussions neither.

[AK-47]

Well, they are 'cultural Christians' or at least belong to historically Christian nations.

Good for you. You are assimilated. I'm not saying the Jews are a biologically different race or anything like that.


Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than Sicilians on average and tend to pass as white in the US.
You were saying we tend to "pass" as white.
That is so far out of the mainstream, that I could only guess that you must be a white nationalist on some level.
It was a telling post, and bizarre to most Americans that don't live on a Neo-Nazi compound in Idaho...

[StonyArabia]

They can have Martian blood if you want, yet they are brown like the shit.

They look like Armenians, some can be very light well some can be very swarthy. Not that I care to be honest, but this just shows that majority of us are not Arabized because we look like Saudis and so on. Do you think they look more like Euros or Saudis?

https://www.google.ca/search?biw=1366&bih=613&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=lC_aWv-INYu2jwTWorzYCw&q=Assyrian+people&oq=Assyrian+people&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l5j0i5i30k1l2j0i8i30k1.1272.2798.0.2944.10. 9.1.0.0.0.169.1050.2j7.9.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.10.1059...0i67k1.0.P4tftY2t1Co#imgrc=_

[Leto]

You were saying we tend to "pass" as white.
That is so far out of the mainstream, that I could only guess that you must be a white nationalist on some level.
It was a telling post, and bizarre to most Americans that don't live on a Neo-Nazi compound in Idaho...
What's wrong with white nationalism? Is it a crime to be one? No, I'm not exactly a WN, but I do share a few points with them and understand their concerns. I've been in alt-right circles for a while. I'm not a Neo-Nazi or anything like that but I'm not a full-blown civic 'nationalist' either. Ethnicity does matter.

[StonyArabia]

I watched this Forensic show, where the Forensic said they can tell the difference between Southern Europeans and North Europeans, and even the East and West divide based on their skeletons.

[AK-47]

I have never called myself a white nationalist.
If whiteness is a cultural thing, Jews have always been part of that in America. They were considered white people from the beginning, so they've never had to pass as anything here. Americans in general don't feel close to Europe, and religious American Jews support Israel for religious reasons, same as white Evangelical Christians. They don't view themselves as Middle Eastern. The majority of Americans don't even view the Jews as an ethnic group.
I'm not even sure where Leto is from.
His posts sound like he has no grasp of America or our history/culture.
I'm guessing he's some kind of foreigner clumsily discussing US culture.
I just put him back on block for awhile.

[Leto]

I'm not even sure where Leto is from.
His posts sound like he has no grasp of America or our history/culture.
I'm guessing he's some kind of foreigner clumsily discussing US culture.
I just put him back on block for awhile.
Lol, why? I'm barely political on this forum. And I've never attacked you personally. In fact, I think we can potentially agree on many issues.

[JohnSmith]

I watched this Forensic show, where the Forensic said they can tell the difference between Southern Europeans and North Europeans, and even the East and West divide based on their skeletons.

Seems difficult I doubt they can determine that with 100% accuracy.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Seems difficult I doubt they can determine that with 100% accuracy.

I would doubt that it is 100% for even West Asian vs S European or even N European, at that. But I would say you can definitely tell on average.

[TEUTORIGOS]

It's not really passing, they're just white people.[referring to Jews]

I am not anti-Semitic but that proves white people do not exist. For instance, Jews, Irish and Chinese people were oppressed , in America, but they were smart enough to overcome oppression and become successful so now Jews and the Irish are 'white' in America. Also, down south Italians were lynched like black people.

'Whiteness ' is one of the biggest scams perpetrated on mankind. White people do not exist but Frenchmen, Englishmen, Germans, Russians, Africans, Chinamen etc... do exist.

[TEUTORIGOS]

I have never called myself a white nationalist.
If whiteness is a cultural thing, Jews have always been part of that in America. They were considered white people from the beginning, so they've never had to pass as anything here. Americans in general don't feel close to Europe, and religious American Jews support Israel for religious reasons, same as white Evangelical Christians. They don't view themselves as Middle Eastern. The majority of Americans don't even view the Jews as an ethnic group.

Well, since you feel so close to Israel (the middle east) and not to the West (Europe) and since you proved that white people do not exist welcome to your future :

https://truthinmediablog.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/us-2050.jpg

https://assets.illuminatiofficial.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/06164456/eye-illuminati-facebook-featured.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKKHHxTzkno

[Leto]

I am not anti-Semitic but that proves white people do not exist. For instance, Jews, Irish and Chinese people were oppressed , in America, but they were smart enough to overcome oppression and become successful so now Jews and the Irish are 'white' in America. Also, down south Italians were lynched like black people.

'Whiteness ' is one of the biggest scams perpetrated on mankind. White people do not exist but Frenchmen, Englishmen, Germans, Russians, Africans, Chinamen etc... do exist.
Americans of European descent are of multiple ancestries, even though mostly from NW Europe, so they were called white for convenience. Especially given the presence of other races such as Africans and Amerindians who have a much darker skin color.

[Smeagol]

Well, since you feel so close to Israel (the middle east)

I'm not Jewish, nor do I feel any connection to Israel or the Middle East at all.

[StonyArabia]

I'm not Jewish, nor do I feel any connection to Israel or the Middle East at all.

Your Jewish ancestry is very small I believe like 1/8th. Not only that it's Ashkenazim which is heavily European which means you have very little Semitic blood in them.

[Fieraru]

Of course they are different, anyone with eyes can tell that, why is that surprising??

North-South divide seems bigger than West-East for me. I am not very knowledgeable about genetic details however

[Joso]

The French are the bridge between those two groups in all genetic plots i've seen. Their absence will cause a gap in the Euro cluster.

Cool

[Damião de Góis]

Cool

Are you the brazilian gravedigger?

[Joso]

Are you the brazilian gravedigger?

lol

[Septentrion]

Northern Europeans Differ from Southern Europeans
An international team of scientists lead by researchers at UC Davis Health System has found that genetically, modern Europeans fall into two groups: Northern and Southern (Mediterranean).

The findings, published in Public Library of Science Genetics, provide a method for scientists to take into account European ancestry when looking for genes involved in diseases.

"Until now, little has been known about the distribution of genetic variation in European populations and how much that distribution matters in terms of doing genetic studies" said Michael Seldin, chair of the Rowe Program in Genetics. "Now we will be able to control for these differences in European populations in our efforts to find genes that cause common diseases".

Seldin and his colleagues compared genetic data for 928 individuals. They studied 5,700 single nucleotide polymorphisms

(SNPs). SNPs are changes in which a single base in the DNA differs from the usual base at that position.

The human genome contains millions of them. Some SNPs cause disease, like the one responsible for sickle cell anemia. Others are normal variations in the genome. People with common ancestry will have many SNPs in common.

They tried to find these SNPs among Europeans. "We saw a clustering of individuals that come from either southern Europe or derived from populations that left southern Europe, or the Mediterranean, in the last 2,000 years", Seldin said.

The team identified a set of 400 informative SNP markers that scientists could now use to control for European ancestry when conducting genetic studies of disease, response to drug treatment, or side effects from therapy.

The data are also of interest to study historical human migrations. The Southern grouping included individuals from the Mediterranean zone (Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain), as well as Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. The Northern group included people with English, Irish, German, Swedish and Ukranian ancestry. These groups correspond to those historically and geographically divided by the Pyrenees and Alps mountain ranges.

Previous studies have found four distinct genetic human populations (groups) which SNPs correlate broadly with continental ancestry: Asia, Africa, Oceania, America and continental Europe. The new study further subdivides people with European ancestry into the Northern and Southern groups.

The researchers analyzed two sets of data to prove this. They looked at SNPs associated with rheumatoid arthritis and found that, when they corrected for ancestry, several of the genes that were previously believed to be good candidates for being involved in the disease were no longer candidates at all. They also corrected for ancestry in a data set looking at lactose intolerance. "When we did not control for differences in population structure, we got a lot of false associations", Seldin explained.

Seldin and his colleagues will soon be expanding the current European study by looking at 500,000 SNPs. They also have plans for similar studies of other continental populations and for further defining different subpopulations.

Seldin said studies of other continents and ethnic groups are necessary if science is to get the most out of the advances made by the Human Genome Project. "The ultimate aim of these studies is to be able to better define subgroups and use this information to eliminate false associations, giving us a better chance of finding true associations for disease genes", Seldin said.


Source: Softpedia (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nothern-Europeans-Differ-From-Southern-Europeans-35702.shtml)


(Thank you, Groenewolf, for putting this article on Facebook)


Irish
English
Swedish
In that rank are the whitest-skinned people!

[Septentrion]

All Europeans are related and we all share ancestry. I'm very interested in genetics because I find it fascinating but really all Europeans plot on a cline and it depends on your neighbours what populations you are closest to, where you are situated in Europe and your history. But whether Greek or Irish we all share history and genetics. I'm interested in all European countries but I'm also fascinated by people from all all over the world. I love hearing about other countries. I do post on Irish topics here and Irish genetics because I know more about that topic but I do follow other populations' genetics and have an interest in that. Other than Europe I think China and Japan are fascinating countries and have such a rich history. I wouldn't mind be Japanese, Chinese or Thai. :) Genetics to me is just science and impartial. Basically you are closest to your neighbours and if you are in Northern Europe you will share more genetics with other Northern Europeans and if you are in Southern Europe you will be closer to other people from that vicinity. In short though Southern Europeans are of course closer to Northern Europeans. Duh! :)

Yes as a whole, we are similar, but the difference is what makes us who we are, and differentiates from one another. I like the diversity within the European group.'
From the swarthy, olive-skinned, brown-eyed, black-haired Italian to intermediate to fair-skinned, hazel-eyed, golden brown-haired Belgian to the fair-skinned, blond-haired, blue-eyed Swede to the pale-skinned, freckled, red-haired, green-eyed Irish! Great!

[Tietar]

Seldin and his colleagues will soon be expanding the current European study by looking at 500,000 SNPs. They also have plans for similar studies of other continental populations and for further defining different subpopulations.


12 years later we are still waiting for the results.

I was really stupid from the start to compare populations different as there are in each one of the continents, with a mixed population like the European one. But it was even more stupid to try to apply clinical methods based on it