West Asian?

[thenewestmember]

Anything between Georgia, Yemen and Iran considered West Asian but when it comes to genetics this region is very diverse so which country is the reference for West Asian genetic component?

[Rgvgjhvv]

India

[Dr_Maul]

I think West Asian race is more Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Armenia and Iran. Levant countries like Syria Lebanon Palestine etc are closer together and Saudi Yemen and Oman etc are closer together. Geographically wise however all of those listed are considered west Asia

[Bornoz]

I think West Asian race is more Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Armenia and Iran. Levant countries like Syria Lebanon Palestine etc are closer together and Saudi Yemen and Oman etc are closer together. Geographically wise however all of those listed are considered west Asia

Plus rest of the Caucasus

[thenewestmember]

I think West Asian race is more Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Armenia and Iran. Levant countries like Syria Lebanon Palestine etc are closer together and Saudi Yemen and Oman etc are closer together. Geographically wise however all of those listed are considered west Asia

I think genetically Turks and Iranians are significantly further from Caucasians

[Bornoz]

I think genetically Turks and Iranians are significantly further from Caucasians

No
It is not something that you can think of. There are genetic results so we can see distances between these nations.

[thenewestmember]

India

India is not even in West Asia

[thenewestmember]

No

Explain?

[Dr_Maul]

I think genetically Turks and Iranians are significantly further from Caucasians

I think maybe Georgia has some more Euro influence but Armenia and Azerbaijan are definitely closer to Turkey/Iran Genetically

[Rgvgjhvv]

India is not even in West Asia

Do you think Georgia is West Asia? I have seen maps where it's considered Europe. Geographically, anyway

[thenewestmember]

I think maybe Georgia has some more Euro influence but Armenia and Azerbaijan are definitely closer to Turkey/Iran Genetically

Turkey have Central Asian so they are significantly east shifted and Iranians have South Asian which makes them south shifted.

[Kyp]

Not as diverse as Europe.


West Asia: Caucasus, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran, North Iraq

[FinalFlash]

I think maybe Georgia has some more Euro influence but Armenia and Azerbaijan are definitely closer to Turkey/Iran Genetically

Georgia has the least steppe-like affinity of all those nations. They have more EEF than Azerbaijan/Iran though.

[Bornoz]

Explain?

Oracle results of a Turk:

Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turk_Anatolia @ 9,255457
2 Azerbaijani @ 12,572605
3 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 13,050993
4 Turkmen_Ashgabat @ 13,215092
5 Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 14,606197
6 Azerbaijani_Iran @ 14,606403
7 Turkmen_Uzbekistan @ 15,655194
8 Turk_Thrace @ 16,355141
9 Kumyk @ 16,958286
10 Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 17,027272
11 Nogai @ 17,222531
12 Turkmen_Iraq @ 17,432402
13 Kurd_Kurmanji @ 17,896171
14 Circassian_Kabardian @ 18,044772
15 Azerbaijani_Dagestan @ 18,054002
16 Karachay @ 18,519524
17 Kurd_Sorani @ 18,741214
18 Zaza @ 19,136818
19 Balkar @ 19,699551
20 Talysh_Azerbaijan @ 19,898997

As you can see Karachays, Balkars, Circassians and Kumyks are on the list

Another one:

Single Population Approximation List:
1. Turk_Anatolia_Northwest @ 4,314232
2. Turk_Anatolia_Southwest @ 6,429657
3. Turk_Anatolia_West-Black-Sea @ 6,613289
4. Turk_Anatolia_Central-west @ 8,933913
5. Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 9,420557
6. Turk_Anatolia_South @ 9,618322
7. Anatolia_Ottoman:MA2196 @ 10,710859
8. Turk_Anatolia_Central-Black-Sea @ 10,780821
9. Turk_Anatolia_Central-east @ 11,504686
10. Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 12,232328
11. Greek_Azov @ 13,982214
12. Turk_Anatolia_Southeast @ 14,399732
13. Karachay @ 15,689846
14. Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 15,848869
15. Nogai @ 16,194033
16. Azerbaijani @ 16,486107
17. Turk_Cyprus @ 16,98111
18. Kipchak:DA179 @ 17,246699
19. Turk_Bulgaria @ 17,391869
20. Turk_Anatolia_East @ 17,392175

Same thing goes on

Another one

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turk_Northwest @ 4,043254
2 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 6,444525
3 Turk_West_Black_Sea @ 6,705923
4 Turk_Southwest @ 6,734181
5 Turk_Central_West @ 9,214358
6 Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 10,7147
7 Turk_Thrace @ 10,782421
8 Turk_South @ 10,878732
9 Turk_Central_Black_Sea @ 11,532077
10 Turk_Central_East @ 12,029061
11 Turk_Bulgaria @ 14,739115
12 DA162_Alan @ 14,975954
13 Turk_Southeast @ 15,218512
14 Azerbaijani @ 15,54963
15 Circassian_Kabardian @ 15,944714
16 Kumyk @ 16,013538
17 Nogai @ 16,192801
18 Karachay @ 16,220956
19 Greek_Crete @ 16,288505
20 Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 16,847231

One more

Single Population Approximation List:
1. Turk_Anatolia_Southwest @ 5,056599
2. Turk_Anatolia_West-Black-Sea @ 5,661333
3. Turk_Anatolia_Northwest @ 5,689332
4. Turk_Anatolia_Central-west @ 6,83679
5. Turk_Anatolia_Central-Black-Sea @ 7,084236
6. Turk_Anatolia_South @ 7,386557
7. Turk_Anatolia_Central-east @ 8,964502
8. Anatolia_Ottoman:MA2196 @ 10,774693
9. Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 12,278518
10. Karachay @ 12,383222
11. Turk_Anatolia_Southeast @ 12,789136
12. Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 13,066611
13. Greek_Azov @ 13,068848
14. Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 13,079334
15. Azerbaijani @ 13,937533
16. Balkar @ 14,334865
17. Turk_Anatolia_East @ 14,603165
18. Circassian @ 15,675695
19. Ossetian @ 16,271908
20. Greek_Cappadocia @ 16,480746

One last

Single Population Approximation List:
1. Turk_Anatolia_Central-Black-Sea @ 5,256615
2. Turk_Anatolia_South @ 6,121847
3. Turk_Anatolia_Central-west @ 6,629533
4. Turk_Anatolia_Southwest @ 6,749104
5. Turk_Anatolia_Central-east @ 7,312626
6. Turk_Anatolia_West-Black-Sea @ 7,700214
7. Turk_Anatolia_Northwest @ 9,007792
8. Turk_Anatolia_Southeast @ 10,538795
9. Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 10,809677
10. Azerbaijani @ 11,827012
11. Turk_Anatolia_East @ 12,063889
12. Karachay @ 13,221701
13. Anatolia_Ottoman:MA2196 @ 14,378359
14. Balkar @ 14,547987
15. Greek_Azov @ 14,559938
16. Greek_Cappadocia @ 15,028001
17. Turkmen_Iraq @ 15,18356
18. Azerbaijani_Iran @ 15,217127
19. Turk_Cyprus @ 15,439819
20. Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 15,554433

As you can see Caucasians are always there but no Georgians. Reason is obvious tho

[Tauromachos]

Western Sicily

[Bornoz]

I think maybe Georgia has some more Euro influence but Armenia and Azerbaijan are definitely closer to Turkey/Iran Genetically We are genetically x2-3 times more European than Georgians

[Dr_Maul]

Turkey have Central Asian so they are significantly east shifted and Iranians have South Asian which makes them south shifted.

Yes, but its not like 50% Central Asian or 50% South asian, Turks are between 5-20% Which isn't going to really affect it that much, and among native Persians south asian DNA is barely anything, only Balochi types have like 35%

[Dr_Maul]

We are genetically x2-3 times more European than Georgians

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have like 45% Balkan or Greek DNA then yes but I think Georgians are more Euro shifted than native Anatolians

[Kyp]

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have like 45% Balkan or Greek DNA then yes but I think Georgians are more Euro shifted than native Anatolians

I dont think so, where does this myth come from?

[Reis-i Cumhur]

I'm pretty sure i have nothing to do with Lebanese and syrians.My west asian dna must be %100 caucasus Since i am a caucasian turkish.
So according to me,West Asia is Caucasia.I disagree with other users

[Rgvgjhvv]

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have Greek DNA

Many do

[FinalFlash]

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have like 45% Balkan or Greek DNA then yes but I think Georgians are more Euro shifted than native Anatolians

Did you read my last reply? Georgians are the least Euro-shifted from all Northern West Asians.

[Bornoz]

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have like 45% Balkan or Greek DNA then yes but I think Georgians are more Euro shifted than native Anatolians

Dodecad k12b results of a Gurian

https://scontent.fsaw1-7.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41613759_167979500753077_4231774999792320512_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=M7VUVrGqJ34AX-YA3bJ&_nc_ht=scontent.fsaw1-7.fna&oh=e9c4a7d1adbcb0a5ffac559002c874a7&oe=5EADC75B

Dodecad k12b results of a Yörük
https://scontent.fsaw1-9.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38688390_151979542353073_2292721132505137152_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=5LFEA_6kBY8AX90yvcf&_nc_ht=scontent.fsaw1-9.fna&oh=7d5c71add1c76d7369d72e54ccbab606&oe=5EAB36FC

As I said it is not something that you guys can think of. There are facts

[Reis-i Cumhur]

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have like 45% Balkan or Greek DNA then yes but I think Georgians are more Euro shifted than native Anatolians

What does Native anatolian mean ? You meant armenians with iranid ancestry ? Anatolians were half armenid quarter greek and iranid ,before turks came

[Tauromachos]

What does Native anatolian mean ?

Natufian

[Dr_Maul]

I dont think so, where does this myth come from?

I mean, its hard to say because of wonky Georgian haplogroup G and their more unique DNA but it is just an observation on phenotype alone, but maybe its not idk

[Synapsid]

Genetically, West Asians are populations groups that have components that are Iran_N/Meso Iran/CHG heavy. So Caucasians, Iranians, Azeris, Armernians, Eastern Turkey/Kurds are West Asians genetically although they may have varying pigmentation. On some Calculators, you see terms like West_Asian and Gedrosia etc being used.

[Synapsid]

Natufian

Natufians are not Native Anatolians. Natufians were Anatolins like HG + Ancient North African Taforalt/Iberomasurians. Nothing like Barcin_N/Anatolian Farmers, who were more European related.

[Dr_Maul]

Did you read my last reply? Georgians are the least Euro-shifted from all Northern West Asians.

Yes, because they are mostly homogenous west asian. I guess I meant they are more Euro shifted visually

[FinalFlash]

Yes, because they are mostly homogenous west asian. I guess I meant they are more Euro shifted visually

They have the least EEF+Steppe but also less SW Asian-like affinity(relatively speaking of course) hence why they look more Euro-shifted visually(again, relatively speaking).

[FinalFlash]

Genetically, West Asians are populations groups that have components that are Iran_N/Meso Iran/CHG heavy. So Caucasians, Iranians, Azeris, Armernians, Eastern Turkey/Kurds are West Asians genetically although they may have varying pigmentation. On some Calculators, you see terms like West_Asian and Gedrosia etc being used.

Azeris, Kurds, and Iranians are Iran_N heavy, Armenians and Eastern Turks are a good balance of Iran_N and CHG, whereas Kartvelians like Laz are more CHG heavy with minor Iran_N

[Reis-i Cumhur]

Natufian

You mean arabized syrians ? Lol this is getting interesting.Yes some turks have nescafe gold skintone and i thought those guys who have nescafe gold skintone were arab.But you said natufian so makes sense.

[Sora]

West Asia is linguistically, culturally & genetically very diverse. So the term "West Asian" doesn't refer to a single thing. It includes Turks, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Iranians, Armenians, Levantine & Peninsular Arabs.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a18665753c7006edb59c35add387dd1b

[Synapsid]

Azeris, Kurds, and Iranians are Iran_N heavy, Armenians and Eastern Turks are a good balance of Iran_N and CHG, whereas Kartvelians like Laz are more CHG heavy with minor Iran_N

Iranian_N in pure form is gone, but exists in mixed in Iran_Chl (Iran_N/Barcin_N-Anatolian_N). Persians and Kurds are most Iran_Chl with some Steppe, with Kurds having additional Levantine ancestry that persian lack. Armenians are CHG+Iran_Chl+Steppe_MLBA, while Karvelians are between Armernians and N. Kavkaz like Chechens, and Chechens are very very CHG with some minor NE European ancestry.

[Synapsid]

One thing that differentiates West Asian heavy groups from non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Sothern Europeans/Meds is high ANE. West Asians have shit ton of ANE ancestry. West Asians also have straighter hair than non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Southern Europeans/Meds.

[Reis-i Cumhur]

West Asia is linguistically, culturally & genetically very diverse. So the term "West Asian" doesn't refer to a single thing. It includes Turks, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Iranians, Armenians, Levantine & Peninsular Arabs.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a18665753c7006edb59c35add387dd1b

Who is that crap on your avatar ?

[Sora]

Who is that crap on your avatar ?

Don't call her crap again, the Armenoid president! She's Park Sodam, a Korean actress & beauty goddess :amour101:

[Arsen_]

West Asia is linguistically, culturally & genetically very diverse. So the term "West Asian" doesn't refer to a single thing. It includes Turks, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Iranians, Armenians, Levantine & Peninsular Arabs.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a18665753c7006edb59c35add387dd1b

West Asia is a club of Muslim countries, therefore Christian countries like Armenia and Georgia look unnatural there. It would be logical to exclude Armenia and Georgia from West Asia and see them either as separate entities or attribute them to the Europe as a club of Christian countries.

[Ion Basescul]

Anything between Georgia, Yemen and Iran considered West Asian but when it comes to genetics this region is very diverse so which country is the reference for West Asian genetic component?

It depends. Which calculator/test are you referring to?

[FinalFlash]

Iranian_N in pure form is gone, but exists in mixed in Iran_Chl (Iran_N/Barcin_N-Anatolian_N). Persians and Kurds are most Iran_Chl with some Steppe, with Kurds having additional Levantine ancestry that persian lack. Armenians are CHG+Iran_Chl+Steppe_MLBA, while Karvelians are between Armernians and N. Kavkaz like Chechens, and Chechens are very very CHG with some minor NE European ancestry.

What's the purest Steppe component available on Vahaduo and G25? Also, do you know what RUS_Maykop_Late represents?

[Reis-i Cumhur]

Don't call her crap again, the Armenoid president! She's Park Sodam, a Korean actress & beauty goddess :amour101:

I want to piss on her face... fucking mongols what a fucking disgusting people they are.I am proud of my siberian dna,at least my mongoloid ancestors were turkics not these stupid bat eaters.
Pls don't do this,don't see bat eaters as rolemodel.

[FinalFlash]

West Asia is a club of Muslim countries, therefore Christian countries like Armenia and Georgia look unnatural there. It would be logical to exclude Armenia and Georgia from West Asia and see them either as separate entities or attribute them to the Europe as a club of Christian countries.

You're treading dangerous waters there. They may start bombarding you with OWDs lol

[Nomansman]

I assume southern and eastern iran would be consider south asian and central asian though

[SharpFork]

I want to piss on her face... fucking mongols what a fucking disgusting people they are.I am proud of my siberian dna,at least my mongoloid ancestors were turkics not these stupid bat eaters.
Pls don't do this,don't see bat eaters as rolemodel.
Would pure Siberians look that different?

[Synapsid]

Would pure Siberians look that different?

They are genetically distict. Siberians have more Devil gates than East Asians. Also more Baikal EBA ancestry + Paleo Amerind (Kolyma)

[Arsen_]

You're treading dangerous waters there. They may start bombarding you with OWDs lol

Isn't that really logical? :) Muslim countries would like to be in the same group with other Muslim countries. The same goes for Christian countries.

[Sora]

I want to piss on her face... fucking mongols what a fucking disgusting people they are.I am proud of my siberian dna,at least my mongoloid ancestors were turkics not these stupid bat eaters.
Pls don't do this,don't see bat eaters as rolemodel.


She's Korean, NOT Chinese! Please don't confuse Koreans & Japanese with Chinese. Also I wanna piss on your Armenoid face. Disgusting Armenoids, they are the ugliest people in the world! Plus Siberians don't look that different than East Asians at all

[Reis-i Cumhur]

She's Korean, NOT Chinese! Please don't confuse Koreans & Japanese with Chinese. Also I wanna piss on your Armenoid face. Disgusting Armenoids, they are the ugliest people in the world! Plus Siberians don't look that different than East Asians at all

Siberians look different than your chin chong chongs.Siberians have unique looking.They are asians but they don't eat bats also they were badass warriors back then.
Also,Armenoids are very good looking compared to turanomongols..I'm not armenoid but i would date with armenoids especially laz ones.
Based on my experiments ,I can easily say Armenoid girls mog turanid girl.Even your men preffer armenoid girl to you

[SharpFork]

Siberians look different than your chin chong chongs.Siberians have unique looking.They are asians but they don't eat bats also they were badass warriors back then.
Also,Armenoids are very good looking compared to turanomongols..I'm not armenoid but i would date with armenoids especially laz ones.
Based on my experiments ,I can easily say Armenoid girls mog turanid girl.Even your men preffer armenoid girl to you

She's not East Asian

[Sora]

Siberians look different than your chin chong chongs.Siberians have unique looking.They are asians but they don't eat bats also they were badass warriors back then.
Also,Armenoids are very good looking compared to turanomongols..I'm not armenoid but i would date with armenoids especially laz ones.
Based on my experiments ,I can easily say Armenoid girls mog turanid girl.Even your men preffer armenoid girl to you


Sorry dear, but I see no difference among Siberians & East Asians. Both look same!

Also it's your personal taste, I won't interfere it. But for me they're the ugliest Caucasoids ever.

Btw yes, but they're not full Turanid ones. Full Turanids generally prefer other Turanid or Pontid/Med girls. If I see a full Turanid man with an ugly Armenoid woman, then I'd feel pity for the man

[Lyonnais]

I think West Asian race is more Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Armenia and Iran. Levant countries like Syria Lebanon Palestine etc are closer together and Saudi Yemen and Oman etc are closer together. Geographically wise however all of those listed are considered west Asia

wtf.... talking about them nonwhite non-European ethnicities, this was a EUROPEAN cultural forum if not mistaken. we must have more members like Tokien.

[Leto]

wtf.... talking about them nonwhite non-European ethnicities, this was a EUROPEAN cultural forum if not mistaken. we must have more members like Tokien.
This forum is full of all sorts of Sand and Jungle Negroes.

[Lyonnais]

This forum is full of all sorts of Sand and Jungle Negroes.

which is a SHAME, this forum must have been full of only-European and that means only ethnically European members living in Europe. no one else. also no mongrels.

[Zoro]

Iranian_N in pure form is gone, but exists in mixed in Iran_Chl (Iran_N/Barcin_N-Anatolian_N). Persians and Kurds are most Iran_Chl with some Steppe, with Kurds having additional Levantine ancestry that persian lack. Armenians are CHG+Iran_Chl+Steppe_MLBA, while Karvelians are between Armernians and N. Kavkaz like Chechens, and Chechens are very very CHG with some minor NE European ancestry.

Yes, and Iran-Chl is also very different from any modern Iranic population. Check the detailed qpWave outputs I posted https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318728-Detailed-specific-formal-study-of-IA-populations-affecting-Iranics

The last time Iran-Chl existed in pure form was about 3500 years ago. I believe this because the later Haji-Firuz-IA sample dated to 3000 years ago ( YDna: R1b1a1a2a2 MtDna: K1a17a)
was already heavily Eastern steppe shifted compared to Iran-Chl because qpAdm models Haji-Firuz-IA as:

57% (+/- 8%) Iran-Chl + 43% (+/- 8%) Turkmenistan-IA - p-value 0.76


In other words Median empire started about 2700 years ago, but Haji-Firuz-IA is 3000 years ago. So NW Iran was Indo-Europeanized a few hundred years before the Medes.

The process of easternization of NW Iran continued even after Haji-Firuz-IA because modern Kurmanji Kurds from Iraq are modeled with qpAdm as:


<colgroup width="135"></colgroup> <colgroup width="58"></colgroup> <colgroup width="102"></colgroup> <colgroup width="75"></colgroup> <colgroup width="126"></colgroup> <colgroup width="78"></colgroup> <colgroup width="85"></colgroup> <colgroup width="77" span="4"></colgroup> <tbody>
Sample (Test)
P-value
Haji-Firuz-IA (Source1)
Standard Error
Sarmatian-Kazakhstan (Source2)
Standard Error
Outcome
Test SNPs
Source1 SNPs
Source2 SNPs
SNPs used


Kurd-Kurmanji-IQ
0.23
82%
11%
18%
11%
Feasible
708897
292807
474638
158282


Armenian-DG
0.44
120%
12%
-20%
12%
Infeasible
690525
292807
474638
153738

</tbody>



One thing that differentiates West Asian heavy groups from non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Sothern Europeans/Meds is high ANE. West Asians have shit ton of ANE ancestry. West Asians also have straighter hair than non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Southern Europeans/Meds.

yes

[Leto]

which is a SHAME, this forum must have been full of only-European and that means only ethnically European members living in Europe. no one else. also no mongrels.
Well, I'm not that radical personally but it definitely should remain predominantly European and not overrun by brown Latinos and Muslims.

[Zoro]

But the one of the biggest mysteries of NW Iran is Haji-Firuz-BA sample because its relatedness to E Europeans/NW Iranics/ S Asians is very different from its predecesor Haji-Firuz-Chl and the latter Haji-Firuz-IA

[Lyonnais]

Well, I'm not that radical personally but it definitely should remain predominantly European and not overrun by brown Latinos and Muslims.

you're soft, brother. but i am hard and merciless. my hammer would fall sternly upon those subearthlings.

[SharpFork]

Yes, and Iran-Chl is also very different from any modern Iranic population. Check the detailed qpWave outputs I posted https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318728-Detailed-specific-formal-study-of-IA-populations-affecting-Iranics

The last time Iran-Chl existed in pure form was about 3500 years ago. I believe this because the later Haji-Firuz-IA sample dated to 3000 years ago ( YDna: R1b1a1a2a2 MtDna: K1a17a)
was already heavily Eastern steppe shifted compared to Iran-Chl because qpAdm models Haji-Firuz-IA as:

57% (+/- 8%) Iran-Chl + 43% (+/- 8%) Turkmenistan-IA - p-value 0.76


In other words Median empire started about 2700 years ago, but Haji-Firuz-IA is 3000 years ago. So NW Iran was Indo-Europeanized a few hundred years before the Medes.

When was the earliest mention of the Medes?

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/media

This implies that Haji-Firuz-IA could have been almost contemporary with historically attested Medes.

[Zoro]

When was the earliest mention of the Medes?

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/media

This implies that Haji-Firuz-IA could have been almost contemporary with historically attested Medes.

There seems to be slightly different accounts on when the Medes started but based on the link you posted Haji-Firuz-IA could be a Mede

[Synapsid]

Yes, and Iran-Chl is also very different from any modern Iranic population. Check the detailed qpWave outputs I posted https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318728-Detailed-specific-formal-study-of-IA-populations-affecting-Iranics

The last time Iran-Chl existed in pure form was about 3500 years ago. I believe this because the later Haji-Firuz-IA sample dated to 3000 years ago ( YDna: R1b1a1a2a2 MtDna: K1a17a)
was already heavily Eastern steppe shifted compared to Iran-Chl because qpAdm models Haji-Firuz-IA as:

57% (+/- 8%) Iran-Chl + 43% (+/- 8%) Turkmenistan-IA - p-value 0.76


In other words Median empire started about 2700 years ago, but Haji-Firuz-IA is 3000 years ago. So NW Iran was Indo-Europeanized a few hundred years before the Medes.

The process of easternization of NW Iran continued even after Haji-Firuz-IA because modern Kurmanji Kurds from Iraq are modeled with qpAdm as:


<colgroup width="135"></colgroup> <colgroup width="58"></colgroup> <colgroup width="102"></colgroup> <colgroup width="75"></colgroup> <colgroup width="126"></colgroup> <colgroup width="78"></colgroup> <colgroup width="85"></colgroup> <colgroup width="77" span="4"></colgroup> <tbody>
Sample (Test)
P-value
Haji-Firuz-IA (Source1)
Standard Error
Sarmatian-Kazakhstan (Source2)
Standard Error
Outcome
Test SNPs
Source1 SNPs
Source2 SNPs
SNPs used


Kurd-Kurmanji-IQ
0.23
82%
11%
18%
11%
Feasible
708897
292807
474638
158282


Armenian-DG
0.44
120%
12%
-20%
12%
Infeasible
690525
292807
474638
153738

</tbody>




yes

Iran_Chl seems to be the biggest ancestry in Iranians. Its high Iran_Chl that seperates Iranians separate them from Semitic speakers in the Arabia proper, South Asians, Greeks etc, although all those groups have West Asians ancestry. Iran_N is Dzudzuana + ANE (+ Minor Unknown ENA) right?

[Zoro]

Iran_Chl seems to be the biggest ancestry in Iranians. Its high Iran_Chl that seperates Iranians separate them from Semitic speakers in the Arabia proper, South Asians, Greeks etc, although all those groups have West Asians ancestry.

Yes I agree Iran-Chl is a big factor in Iranics (this includes eastern Iranics) and this is what distinguishes them from Arabs. qpAdm however shows that the amount of Iran-Chl is exaggerated and steppe underestimated in Iranics when using non formal calculation methods.


Iran_N is Dzudzuana + ANE (+ Minor Unknown ENA) right?

I believe so but keep in mind that non of our Iran-N samples is very high quality so we can't be absolutely sure we can just make statements based on what we have

[Synapsid]

Yes I agree Iran-Chl is a big factor in Iranics (this includes eastern Iranics) and this is what distinguishes them from Arabs. qpAdm however shows that the amount of Iran-Chl is exaggerated and steppe underestimated in Iranics when using non formal calculation methods.



I believe so but keep in mind that non of our Iran-N samples is very high quality so we can't be absolutely sure we can just make statements based on what we have

So you believe Iranics have higher Steppe_MLBA than recognised?

[Zoro]

So you believe Iranics have higher Steppe_MLBA than recognised?

Yes because that's what targeted formal methods using 1 test subject at a time which use outgroups show (qpAdm, qpWave, dstats). I'm referring to accumulated steppe since Chl

[Rocinante]

which is a SHAME, this forum must have been full of only-European and that means only ethnically European members living in Europe. no one else. also no mongrels.

Wow...

[Babak]

Yes because that's what targeted formal methods using 1 test subject at a time which use outgroups show (qpAdm, qpWave, dstats). I'm referring to accumulated steppe since Chl

Shouldnt be more than 20%. Anything more is ridiculous and not accurate.

[Zoro]

Shouldnt be more than 20%. Anything more is ridiculous and not accurate.

The numbers are what they are. Formal methods account for things that skew non-formal results. That's why they are used in publications. Personally I don't care whether they have 0 or 50% steppe.

Reference point for steppe is Iran-chl and steppe includes anything Sintashta related + Scythian/Sarmatian related + any other unknown input from C Asia. I'm curious which test showed 20% and was the reference point Iran-Chl and where there a bunch of other modern subjects in the run. Reason is other modern subjects when thrown into a run create all sorts of unknown pulls and pushes on the sample you are trying to calculate.

Having said this I'm also curious what G25 shows when you model Iraqi or Iranian kurds as
1- Haji-Firuz-Chl + Turkmenistan-IA
2- Haji-Firuz-Chl + Sarmatian-Kazakhstan

[SharpFork]

The numbers are what they are. Formal methods account for things that skew non-formal results. That's why they are used in publications. Personally I don't care whether they have 0 or 50% steppe.

Reference point for steppe is Iran-chl and steppe includes anything Sintashta related + Scythian/Sarmatian related + any other unknown input from C Asia. I'm curious which test showed 20% and was the reference point Iran-Chl and where there a bunch of other modern subjects in the run. Reason is other modern subjects when thrown into a run create all sorts of unknown pulls and pushes on the sample you are trying to calculate.

Having said this I'm also curious what G25 shows when you model Iraqi or Iranian kurds as
1- Haji-Firuz-Chl + Turkmenistan-IA
2- Haji-Firuz-Chl + Sarmatian-Kazakhstan

I'll try finding something that's reasonable, there is a lot of outliers and strange populations in the Iron age Steppes. I'm not sure how even your method can properly assess with confidence which one(s) among the many is the best fit.

[Zoro]

I'll try finding something that's reasonable, there is a lot of outliers and strange populations in the Iron age Steppes. I'm not sure how even your method can properly assess with confidence which one(s) among the many is the best fit.

that's exactly what I asked Dilawer. He said he uses dstats and f3s first to narrow down the best candidates which he then uses in qpWave and qpAdm models. Then qpAdm adds another layer of validity by p-values and standard errors of the model

Based on the qpAdm on the previous page Haji-Firuz-IA was already VERY steppe shifted compared to the earlier Haji-Firuz-Chl and this is 3000 years ago in NW Iran. If Haji-Firuz-IA was in fact a Mede (because that's roughly when the Medes started) that would indicate that Medes represented hybridization of some C Asian population with chalcolithic Zagrosian Iranians.

We also have the anomoly of Haji-Firuz-BA. It's even more steppe shifted than the later Haji-Firuz-IA.

Does it represent:

1- A traveler from E Europe or W Siberia in the Zagros?
Personally I can't picture foreign travelers in the Bronze Age roaming the Zagros.

2- Is it part of an invasive migratory Indo-European group from E Europe or W Siberia? In other words a gigantic pulse of Steppe into the local chalcolithic Iranian population which we see the after effects with the shift from Haji-Firuz-Chl to Haji-Firuz-IA?

3- Bad sample?

[SharpFork]

that's exactly what I asked Dilawer. He said he uses dstats and f3s first to narrow down the best candidates which he then uses in qpWave and qpAdm models. Then qpAdm adds another layer of validity by p-values and standard errors of the model
What are the best candidates? G25 seems to favour Western IA nomads.

[Zoro]

What are the best candidates? G25 seems to favour Western IA nomads.

Kazakhstan Sarmatian (DA26.SG and DA30.SG from the Reich 1240K dataset) + Haji-Firuz-Chl (the best samples I2323,I4241,I4349,I4351) for modeling Iraqi Kurmanji Kurds.

Haji-Firuz-Chl + Turkmenistan-IA (DA382_final) for modeling Haji-Firuz-IA

All those are in the Reich 1240K latest dataset.


Also, Dilawer used whole genome sequences for the Kurds to get more than double the SNP overlap with the ancients than the 23andMe or AncestryDNA samples.

[Eline]

True native Northwest Asian countries are in the Caucasus and Kurdistan. Native Northwest Asian people are Caucasians and Kurds. Kurds have a lot Caucaso-Hurrian ancestry and Caucasus has a lot Iranic (Median) ancestry. The rest are newconers and Northwest Asianised.

[Eline]

Semites, like the Arabs in the Levant are Southwest Asians.

Although Georgia is in West Asia it is not a Middle Eastern/Islamic country. There are differences between the Near East (Anatolia), Middle East, NorthWest Asia and SouthWest Asia.

[SharpFork]

t1- A traveler from E Europe or W Siberia in the Zagros?
Personally I can't picture foreign travelers in the Bronze Age roaming the Zagros.

2- Is it part of an invasive migratory Indo-European group from E Europe or W Siberia? In other words a gigantic pulse of Steppe into the local chalcolithic Iranian population which we see the after effects with the shift from Haji-Firuz-Chl to Haji-Firuz-IA?

3- Bad sample?
It's extremely early, I think a Caucasian route makes the most sense considering G25 prefers Kura-Axes to Iranian C and N(although it takes both).

It could be badly dated but in of itself it looks "real", it has reasonable ratios of Steppe:ENF:WHG for a early Bronze Age Steppe Indoeuropean and nothing really jumps at you outside just being an outlier.
I'm not super confident but I can theorize that the person in question had some amount of local ancestry, about 1/4 and given that the adjust original Yamnaya-like admixture would have been about 70-75%, so it's definitely high enough to be early Steppe ancestry, before back-migration from the rest of Europe increase WHG and ENF. But at the same time it shouldn't be to atypical for the entire Bronze age period.

Maybe the dating for the spread of chariots and horses could be a clue?

[Eline]

that's exactly what I asked Dilawer. He said he uses dstats and f3s first to narrow down the best candidates which he then uses in qpWave and qpAdm models. Then qpAdm adds another layer of validity by p-values and standard errors of the model

Based on the qpAdm on the previous page Haji-Firuz-IA was already VERY steppe shifted compared to the earlier Haji-Firuz-Chl and this is 3000 years ago in NW Iran. If Haji-Firuz-IA was in fact a Mede (because that's roughly when the Medes started) that would indicate that Medes represented hybridization of some C Asian population with chalcolithic Zagrosian Iranians.

We also have the anomoly of Haji-Firuz-BA. It's even more steppe shifted than the later Haji-Firuz-IA.

Does it represent:

1- A traveler from E Europe or W Siberia in the Zagros?
Personally I can't picture foreign travelers in the Bronze Age roaming the Zagros.

2- Is it part of an invasive migratory Indo-European group from E Europe or W Siberia? In other words a gigantic pulse of Steppe into the local chalcolithic Iranian population which we see the after effects with the shift from Haji-Firuz-Chl to Haji-Firuz-IA?

3- Bad sample?
Haji-Firuz-BA was a Gutian. And the Medes evolved directly from the Gutans. Gutians were the most major ancestors of the Medes. Nothing to do with SouthCentral Asia.

[Eline]

Gutians who were the main ancestors of the Medes were related to the Leyla-Tepe, Maykop, Kura-Araxes cultures. According to the IE Armenian Model of the late Russian academic Ivanov, Kura-Araxes was an Indo-European culture.

[Zoro]

It's extremely early, I think a Caucasian route makes the most sense considering G25 prefers Kura-Axes to Iranian C and N(although it takes both).

It could be badly dated but in of itself it looks "real", it has reasonable ratios of Steppe:ENF:WHG for a early Bronze Age Steppe Indoeuropean and nothing really jumps at you outside just being an outlier.
I'm not super confident but I can theorize that the person in question had some amount of local ancestry, about 1/4 and given that the adjust original Yamnaya-like admixture would have been about 70-75%, so it's definitely high enough to be early Steppe ancestry, before back-migration from the rest of Europe increase WHG and ENF. But at the same time it shouldn't be to atypical for the entire Bronze age period.

Maybe the dating for the spread of chariots and horses could be a clue?

The problem is G25 will not show you how off the wall this sample is since it tends to minimize diversity among populations. To truly appreciate how out of place Haji-Firuz-BA is compared to Haji-Firuz-Chl and IA check out these qpWave rank=0 comparisons. Compare the relatedness of Estonians to Haji-Firuz-Chl and IA with Haji-Firuz-BA. It's off the wall. In other words do chi-sq Estonian/ NW Iranian for Chl vs BA vs IA

https://i.imgur.com/3JUDOQx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KS5Anf0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gOb5hfi.jpg

[Rgvgjhvv]

West Asia is a club of Muslim countries, therefore Christian countries like Armenia and Georgia look unnatural there. It would be logical to exclude Armenia and Georgia from West Asia and see them either as separate entities or attribute them to the Europe as a club of Christian countries.

I like this idea. But what about Israel?

[Zoro]

With your typical Iranic or proto-Iranic samples such as Haji-Firuz-IA or Chl we see Iranics/Armenians much more related to them than Estonians to them. This includes Turkmenistan-IA below. Even with Sarmatian-Kazakhstan below Estonian/Iranic is a lower percentage than with the Haji-Firuz-BA above. In other words Estonians have a much more special relationship with Haji-Firuz-BA than all the other Haji-Firuz samples including Kazakhstan Sarmatians. Also notice that with IA and Chl Firuz, Kurds or Armenians are on top, whereas with BA Firuz N Ossetians are on top and Pak Balochis are way down.

https://i.imgur.com/GZwhc3L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uxQpYkv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fe406qM.jpg

[Zoro]

The notes for Haji-Firuz-BA in the Reich dataset state "QUESTIONABLE (popgen.European.shifted)"

[Eline]

The notes for Haji-Firuz-BA in the Reich dataset state "QUESTIONABLE (popgen.European.shifted)"Let say that 'Haji-Firuz-BA' is real. It can be expalined.

According to the very same Reich Yamnaya was Indo-Europeanised by people from the Transcaucasia (Maykop/Leyla-Tepe) or maybe even much more further to the south. So, there was a geneflow between the proto-IEan Maykop Culture and the ancient early IEan Yamnaya. Kura-Araxes with all its kurgans could be evolved from the Maykop Culture or be a related culture to Maykop. So, Haji-Firuz-BA could most likely be heavily influenced by the people from Northern Caucaus (Yamnaya).

The main DNA component in Turkmenistan-BA (BMAC) that gave rise to the Eastern Iranians itself is already heavily related to the Gutians.


Kura-Araxes

https://i.postimg.cc/yxN0wCv9/gutians.jpg


Trialeti Kurgans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVK6E1t_P7A

[Eline]

Only this 'theory' explains the Hittites and why the early IEan Hittites and proto-Anatolians didn't have any major Steppe related ancestry.

So, that makes the ancient Iranians and the Hitties very much related to each other and makes Graeco-Anatolian-Aryan group a reality.

[SharpFork]

Only this 'theory' explains the Hittites and why the early IEan Hittites and proto-Anatolians didn't have any major Steppe related ancestry.

So, that makes the ancient Iranians and the Hitties very much related to each other and makes Graeco-Anatolian-Aryan group a reality.

We don't have enough Anatolian samples to talk about Hittites having Steppe ancestry or not

[FinalFlash]

With your typical Iranic or proto-Iranic samples such as Haji-Firuz-IA or Chl we see Iranics/Armenians much more related to them than Estonians to them. This includes Turkmenistan-IA below. Even with Sarmatian-Kazakhstan below Estonian/Iranic is a lower percentage than with the Haji-Firuz-BA above. In other words Estonians have a much more special relationship with Haji-Firuz-BA than all the other Haji-Firuz samples including Kazakhstan Sarmatians. Also notice that with IA and Chl Firuz, Kurds or Armenians are on top, whereas with BA Firuz N Ossetians are on top and Pak Balochis are way down.

https://i.imgur.com/GZwhc3L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uxQpYkv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fe406qM.jpg

What exactly does this mean?

[Eline]

We don't have enough Anatolian samples to talk about Hittites having Steppe ancestry or not
Well, then again we dont have enough samples of most ancient populations to talk about them.

Now we have pure Hittites samples from their historical region and the era and all of them show that they were just natives of NorthWest Asia. The propabilty is very high those samples were pure Hittites hits.

No matter how much samples they will find all of them will match with the ancient Northwest Asians. Also, dont forget that proto-Anatolian languages from NorthWest Asia like proto-Luwian, proto-hittite predate Yamnaya.

[Arsen_]

I like this idea. But what about Israel?

Israel is nor a Christian neither a Muslim country but in general Judaism is closer to Islam (Judaics like Muslims also don’t eat pork, they practice circumcision and a lot more other in common) so they can be grouped in West Asia or seen as separate entity if they do not want to be in a Muslim club.

[Trouble]

One thing that differentiates West Asian heavy groups from non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Sothern Europeans/Meds is high ANE. West Asians have shit ton of ANE ancestry. West Asians also have straighter hair than non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Southern Europeans/Meds.

This is completely wrong.

[Synapsid]

This is completely wrong.

How?

[Trouble]

How?

Most west asians do not have high ANE. Other than some north Caucasus pops.

[Synapsid]

Most west asians do not have high ANE. Other than some north Caucasus pops.

You are looking old maps. Iran_N is literally Dzudzuana + ANE.

[Kyp]

Most west asians do not have high ANE. Other than some north Caucasus pops.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Ancient_North_Eurasian_admixture.png

[Trouble]

You are looking old maps. Iran_N is literally Dzudzuana + ANE.

Most of them don't have much of that either. Iranians do but its not as high as north Caucasus pops. or SC Asians

[Synapsid]

Most of them don't have much of that either. Iranians do but its not as high as north Caucasus pops. or SC Asians

:picard1:
SC Asians have Iran_N, even more Iranians (Iranians the more mixed Iran_chL which is 50% Iran_N). Iran_N/Iran_ChL/CHG is what makes West Asians genetically west asian

[Trouble]

:picard1:
SC Asians have Iran_N, even more Iranians (Iranians the more mixed Iran_chL which is 50% Iran_N). Iran_N/Iran_ChL/CHG is what makes West Asians genetically west asian

Go back and read what I was saying, I was saying Iranians don't have AS MUCH as SC Asians and north Caucasus pops do(in the latter's case it is the related CHG).

And no, it is not Iran_N that makes west asians what they are. But a combination of it, the related CHG, ANF, and Levant_N. They have a lot of Med type admixture devoid of any ANE.

[Kyp]

Go back and read what I was saying, I was saying Iranians don't have AS MUCH as SC Asians and north Caucasus pops do(in the latter's case it is the related CHG).

And no, it is not Iran_N that makes west asians what they are. But a combination of it, the related CHG, ANF, and Levant_N. They have a lot of Med type admixture devoid of any ANE.

His point was they (iranians, transcaucasians) have a lot compared to MENAs(arabs) and South Euros which is true yet you claimed he is completely wrong.
Maybe it's not a lot more than South Euros but still more nevertheless.

[Oghuz]

Iran_N itself like almost 50 % ANE

https://doi.org/10.1101/423079

[Eline]

Go back and read what I was saying, I was saying Iranians don't have AS MUCH as SC Asians and north Caucasus pops do(in the latter's case it is the related CHG).

And no, it is not Iran_N that makes west asians what they are. But a combination of it, the related CHG, ANF, and Levant_N. They have a lot of Med type admixture devoid of any ANE.


https://i.postimg.cc/rpSvYyhg/djfsdhjhg.jpg

[Trouble]

His point was they (iranians, transcaucasians) have a lot compared to MENAs(arabs) and South Euros which is true yet you claimed he is completely wrong.
Maybe it's not a lot more than South Euros but still more nevertheless.

"West Asia" includes Arabia, the Levant, and Turkey as well as Iran and the Caucasus. I dont get why anthrotards need to reinvent the meaning of words. MENA is just west asia+North Africa.

Levantines don't have much ANE. Arabians don't have much of it. Mesopotamians don't and Turks don't either. It's only the eastern half of west asia which has a decent amount and it's not huge except, as I said, in some Caucasus pops.

[Teutonski]

West Asia is a club of Muslim countries, therefore Christian countries like Armenia and Georgia look unnatural there. It would be logical to exclude Armenia and Georgia from West Asia and see them either as separate entities or attribute them to the Europe as a club of Christian countries.

I agree.

[Kyp]

"West Asia" includes Arabia, the Levant, and Turkey as well as Iran and the Caucasus. I dont get why anthrotards need to reinvent the meaning of words. MENA is just west asia+North Africa.

Levantines don't have much ANE. Arabians don't have much of it. Mesopotamians don't and Turks don't either. It's only the eastern half of west asia which has a decent amount and it's not huge except, as I said, in some Caucasus pops.

Can't you read ?


One thing that differentiates West Asian heavy groups from non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Sothern Europeans/Meds is high ANE. West Asians have shit ton of ANE ancestry. West Asians also have straighter hair than non-West Asian heavy MENAs and Southern Europeans/Meds.

Yes you can argue about the term West Asia used wrongly here. But he is right Iranians/Turks/Transcaucasians DO have a lot of ANE compared to Arabs and they have more than South Euros. There is nothing to argue about. Why are you derailing into meaningless discussion about terms now?

[Eline]

MENA is just west asia+North Africa.
ME NA = Middle East + North Africa.

West Asia is a geographical neutral term, while Middle East is much more a geo-political (colonialist) terminology.

But MENA itself is a very diverse region. North African Maghreb people from 'NA' are actually genetically closer to Iberia (Spain) than to the Ossetians.

Semitic Levant people are closer to the Cypriots than they are to Georgians etc.

[Eline]

as you can see here North Africans (meNA) are much closer to the Europeans than to the Northwest Asians. Although North Africans might be closer to the Semites (Arabs) in Southwest Asia.

https://i.postimg.cc/PfWJ1VCY/Principal-component-analysis-a-PCA-and-b-model-based-clustering-using-NGSadmix-K3.png

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Principal-component-analysis-a-PCA-and-b-model-based-clustering-using-NGSadmix-K3_fig1_291327771


Northwest Asians are a very, very different population from the North Africans.

[Kamal900]

I agree.

They're genetically much more closer to Muslim West Asiatics than to Europeans, thus they're not Whites. Christianity as a religion originated in the middle east which used to be a Jewish sect of Judaism.

[Zoro]

You are looking old maps. Iran_N is literally Dzudzuana + ANE.

I don't think he has seen the 2018 Lazaridis paper which showed that Iran-N and CHG can be modeled as 22% AG3 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full

Here is their table:

https://i.imgur.com/BgqUW6h.png?1

[Babak]

The numbers are what they are. Formal methods account for things that skew non-formal results. That's why they are used in publications. Personally I don't care whether they have 0 or 50% steppe.

Reference point for steppe is Iran-chl and steppe includes anything Sintashta related + Scythian/Sarmatian related + any other unknown input from C Asia. I'm curious which test showed 20% and was the reference point Iran-Chl and where there a bunch of other modern subjects in the run. Reason is other modern subjects when thrown into a run create all sorts of unknown pulls and pushes on the sample you are trying to calculate.

Having said this I'm also curious what G25 shows when you model Iraqi or Iranian kurds as
1- Haji-Firuz-Chl + Turkmenistan-IA
2- Haji-Firuz-Chl + Sarmatian-Kazakhstan

If we define steppe as Sintashta/Steppe MLBA-like ancestry than yea its around 20.

Kashkarchi are Steppe_MLBA-like people in Uzbekistan. They are almost identical to Sintashta only a bit mixed with Central Asians.

Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.5925% / 0.01592535
Aggregated
54.0 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
17.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
14.6 UZB_Kashkarchi_BA
8.4 Levant_Natufian
2.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1
1.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.0 Mongola

But if we assume that steppe Iranics mixed heavily with BMAC before they entered Iran than the genetic change was much bigger. I replaced Kashkarchi with Turkmenistan_IA which was Pamiri-like and 50% Steppe_MLBA and 50% BMAC-like. So the most Steppe mixed Iranians in Khorasan are probably around 35-40% Turkmenistan_IA-like i guess.

Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.3016% / 0.01301572
Aggregated
39.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
27.0 TKM_IA
17.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
8.6 Levant_Natufian
5.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1
0.4 Mongola

ANE in west asians adds pseudo steppe btw. It cloggs it up by 10-15%

[Zoro]

What exactly does this mean?

These are qpWave outputs run with 2 left pops and about 11 outgroups. So basically the program checks to see how differentially the 2 left pops for example:

Kurds
Turkmenistan-IA

are related to all the 11 outgroups (check my original thread for list). So if Kurds and Turkmenistan-IA are related to ALL 11 OUTGROUPS in exactly the same way, it would mean that Kurds and Turkmenistan-IA ARE SIBLINGS and the chi-sq (X2) would be 0.

On the other hand if Kurds and Turkmenistan-IA are totally different from each other then they would each be related to each of the 11 outgroups in totally different ways and chi-sq (X2) would be like 1000.

So the 1st chart shows that Kurds & N Ossetians are the most related toTurkmenistan-IA but they are by no means siblings to Turkmenistan-IA because their chi-sq although lower than the other test subjects it is still much higher than 0. It's around 80 which is by no means extremely related. In fact as you can see none of the 5 modern populations are that closely related to Turkmenistan-IA

TO SUMMARIZE, the higher in the chart the more related to the ancient AND THE CLOSER TO 0 THE CHI-SQ (X2) THE CLOSER THE DEGREE OF RELATIONSHIP






With your typical Iranic or proto-Iranic samples such as Haji-Firuz-IA or Chl we see Iranics/Armenians much more related to them than Estonians to them. This includes Turkmenistan-IA below. Even with Sarmatian-Kazakhstan below Estonian/Iranic is a lower percentage than with the Haji-Firuz-BA above. In other words Estonians have a much more special relationship with Haji-Firuz-BA than all the other Haji-Firuz samples including Kazakhstan Sarmatians. Also notice that with IA and Chl Firuz, Kurds or Armenians are on top, whereas with BA Firuz N Ossetians are on top and Pak Balochis are way down.

https://i.imgur.com/GZwhc3L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uxQpYkv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Fe406qM.jpg

[Zoro]

If we define steppe as Sintashta/Steppe MLBA-like ancestry than yea its around 20.

Kashkarchi are Steppe_MLBA-like people in Uzbekistan. They are almost identical to Sintashta only a bit mixed with Central Asians.

Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.5925% / 0.01592535
Aggregated
54.0 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
17.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
14.6 UZB_Kashkarchi_BA
8.4 Levant_Natufian
2.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1
1.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.0 Mongola

But if we assume that steppe Iranics mixed heavily with BMAC before they entered Iran than the genetic change was much bigger. I replaced Kashkarchi with Turkmenistan_IA which was Pamiri-like and 50% Steppe_MLBA and 50% BMAC-like. So the most Steppe mixed Iranians in Khorasan are probably around 35-40% Turkmenistan_IA-like i guess.

Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.3016% / 0.01301572
Aggregated
39.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
27.0 TKM_IA
17.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
8.6 Levant_Natufian
5.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1
0.4 Mongola

ANE in west asians adds pseudo steppe btw. It cloggs it up by 10-15%


Thanks for posting. I would like to see the output in the second one when you run just with:

TKM-IA
IRN-Haji-Firuz-C
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1

Don't add additional Anatolia-N or Levant-Natufian or Sintashta because qpAdm has shown it's overfitting because Haji-Firuz-C already contains all the Anatolia-N and Levant NW Iranics have and TKM-IA already has all the Sintashta they need and then some.
Don't worry about distances. Overfitting is much worse than higher distance.
When you overfit in qpAdm you can't even get a passable p-value.

Then re-run the same but switch TKM with Sarmatian Kazakhstan

[FinalFlash]

They're genetically much more closer to Muslim West Asiatics than to Europeans, thus they're not Whites. Christianity as a religion originated in the middle east which used to be a Jewish sect of Judaism.

To some Turks and Iranians, yes. But afterwards, the distance gets far bigger and bigger to most muslims.

[Zoro]

Haji-Firuz works better for Kurds but for Zoroastrians you may find seh-Gabi-c works better. Use one of the two

[Kamal900]

To some Turks and Iranians, yes. But afterwards, the distance gets far bigger and bigger to most muslims.

Yeah, but they still belong to the west asiatic cluster while Levantines cluster in between South-West and West Asiatic clusters.

[Samnium]

as you can see here North Africans (meNA) are much closer to the Europeans than to the Northwest Asians. Although North Africans might be closer to the Semites (Arabs) in Southwest Asia.

https://i.postimg.cc/PfWJ1VCY/Principal-component-analysis-a-PCA-and-b-model-based-clustering-using-NGSadmix-K3.png

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Principal-component-analysis-a-PCA-and-b-model-based-clustering-using-NGSadmix-K3_fig1_291327771


Northwest Asians are a very, very different population from the North Africans.

Strange plot though, Spaniards included in NW populations but Northern Italian in Southern Europe (while most of them plot close, if we exclude some borderline regions like Romagna or Liguria), Sardinians at the same "latitude" of the N.Italian reference.

Everyone in Europe seem to have North-African blood while it's not true.

[Zoro]

Thanks for posting. I would like to see the output in the second one when you run just with:

TKM-IA
IRN-Haji-Firuz-C
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1

Don't add additional Anatolia-N or Levant-Natufian or Sintashta because qpAdm has shown it's overfitting because Haji-Firuz-C already contains all the Anatolia-N and Levant NW Iranics have and TKM-IA already has all the Sintashta they need and then some.
Don't worry about distances. Overfitting is much worse than higher distance.
When you overfit in qpAdm you can't even get a passable p-value.

Then re-run the same but switch TKM with Sarmatian Kazakhstan


Put in other words, all the Anatolia-N and Levant-N or Natufian me and you got from our Iran-Chl ancestors because those populations were already extinct by chalcolithic. So it makes no sense to add them to the run if you are using Iran-Chl

[FinalFlash]

Yeah, but they still belong to the west asiatic cluster while Levantines cluster in between South-West and West Asiatic clusters.

Right. But I'm pretty sure Arsen's original point excluded any talk of genetics and anthrotardism.

[Kamal900]

Right. But I'm pretty sure Arsen's original point excluded any talk of genetics and anthrotardism.

But religion alone isn't enough to be accepted among Europeans though or else African Christians wouldn't have a problem gaining acceptance.

[FinalFlash]

But religion alone isn't enough to be accepted among Europeans though or else African Christians wouldn't have a problem gaining acceptance.

I know. Then you have to factor in other things as well such as culture for instance. Genetics as well. I don't think its logical to focus solely on a single aspect and come up with a conclusion. Also, we aren't talking about Africans but people that are peripheral to Europe in a genetics and cultural sense.

[Kamal900]

I know. Then you have to factor in other things as well such as culture for instance. Genetics as well. I don't think its logical to focus solely on a single aspect and come up with a conclusion. Also, we aren't talking about Africans but people that are peripheral to Europe in a genetics and cultural sense.

Yeah, but at the same time, Armenians are their own thing and so on. They're genetically are part of West Asiatic cluster which by Western standards they're aren't Whites regardless of their culture and religion. The point that I'm trying to get across is that the term, White, is often different from one society to the next regardless on what some pan-European nationalists like to assert, it's not shared all across the board.

[Eline]

Strange plot though, Spaniards included in NW populations but Northern Italian in Southern Europe (while most of them plot close, if we exclude some borderline regions like Romagna or Liguria), Sardinians at the same "latitude" of the N.Italian reference.

Everyone in Europe seem to have North-African blood while it's not true.Nothing strange about it. Iberian people have a lot 'Atlantic' R1b in them and more than Italians do. Italians themselves were influced more by the ancient Greeks and Anatolians.

Also, everybody in Europe has ancient WHG ancestry. WHG ancestry in Europe predate Indo-Europeans. Before Europe was Indo-Europeanised, most Europeans had a lot of WHG. And exactly that WHG connects North Africans and Europeans with each other.

North Africans and Southern Europeans share a lot ancient pre-Indo-European DNA with each other. That's why natives of North Africa are much closer to natives of Europe than they are to natives of NorthWest Asia. NorthWest Asians (non-Semitic) have actually nothing to do with the Northern Africans

[FinalFlash]

Yeah, but at the same time, Armenians are their own thing and so on. They're genetically are part of West Asiatic cluster which by Western standards they're aren't Whites regardless of their culture and religion. The point that I'm trying to get across is that the term, White, is often different from one society to the next regardless on what some pan-European nationalists like to assert, it's not shared all across the board.

Exactly. What's white in Latin America, differs as to what's white in Canada or Africa or Australia. Armenians are part of the northern West Asian cluster and are closest to northern west asians genetically, yes. However, things start to get very blurry in a genetic sense. What I mean by this is that you start to see North Caucasians and some Europeans that come up higher on Armenian oracles than other West Asians, never mind North Africans. The same holds true for various other ethnic groups in northern west asia like Turks for instance.

[Kamal900]

Exactly. What's white in Latin America, differs as to what's white in Canada or Africa or Australia. Armenians are part of the northern West Asian cluster and are closest to northern west asians genetically, yes. However, things start to get very blurry in a genetic sense. What I mean by this is that you start to see North Caucasians and some Europeans that come up higher on Armenian oracles than other West Asians, never mind North Africans. The same holds true for various other ethnic groups in northern west asia like Turks for instance.

Indeed which is why that Teutone isn't speaking for all Europeans per say, and that being White isn't an objective thing and so on but rather is based on socio-cultural, cultural and genetic aspects which the criteria differs from one country to the next. I mean, Smeagol himself told me that I can pass and get mistaken for a White Americans if I was in his area and so on. In other words, the internet isn't real life, and people often than most tend to form their own internet personas which differs their real selves in real life.

[Eline]

There is some West Asian DNA in North Africa and Levant due to expansion of many West Asian kingdoms in Africa/Egypt. Think of Kurdish Ayyubid dinasty (Saladin), Mamluk Sultanate, Persians and last but not least major Arabian expansion.

[FinalFlash]

Indeed which is why that Teutone isn't speaking for all Europeans per say, and that being White isn't an objective thing and so on but rather is based on socio-cultural, cultural and genetic aspects which the criteria differs from one country to the next. I mean, Smeagol himself told me that I can pass and get mistaken for a White Americans if I was in his area and so on. In other words, the internet isn't real life, and people often than most tend to form their own internet personas which differs their real selves in real life.

Exactly. Which is why I believe in genetic gradients. I am closer to a Turk, Iranian or Georgian than to any European in a genetic sense, yes. But I am also closer to various Europeans and North Caucasians than to various West Asians as well. This is exactly why I don't believe in pan ideologies in a geographic sense. At some point, the genetic distances between myself and various other ethnic groups be they west asian or European can so large that I just view them as foreign.

[user_]

We are genetically x2-3 times more European than Georgians

But obviously Georgians have more euro like phenotype, than other west asians.
CHG is very much related to ANE, and ANE itself makes 75% of EHG.

[Bornoz]

But obviously Georgians have more euro like phenotype, than other west asians.
CHG is very much related to ANE, and ANE itself makes 75% of EHG.

I have never claimed otherwise but ever since we are talking about genetics, phenotype is totally irrelevant.
We have plenty of CHG too in the other hand

[user_]

We have plenty of CHG too in the other hand

But also more South and South West Asian components than Georgians.

[Bornoz]

But also more South and South West Asian components than Georgians.

I think you can make the comparsion yourself

Turk:

https://scontent.fsaw1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52842393_257580805126279_8419913441094926336_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=iyeteVqyE0sAX_pVjHu&_nc_ht=scontent.fsaw1-4.fna&oh=0d61206362dce7c0019778735b999629&oe=5EB07EA3

Georgian:

https://scontent.fsaw1-7.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41613759_167979500753077_4231774999792320512_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=5NC3usnqkq8AX_caXfX&_nc_ht=scontent.fsaw1-7.fna&oh=e4ca37f133b2a27a16fff9a7d53ea018&oe=5EADC75B

[Aileron]

But also more South and South West Asian components than Georgians.

Georgia is a very small relatively homogeneous Caucausia nation, so you shouldnt compare yourself with us.

[Aileron]

I think you can make the comparsion yourself

Turk:

https://scontent.fsaw1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52842393_257580805126279_8419913441094926336_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=iyeteVqyE0sAX_pVjHu&_nc_ht=scontent.fsaw1-4.fna&oh=0d61206362dce7c0019778735b999629&oe=5EB07EA3

Georgian:

https://scontent.fsaw1-7.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41613759_167979500753077_4231774999792320512_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=5NC3usnqkq8AX_caXfX&_nc_ht=scontent.fsaw1-7.fna&oh=e4ca37f133b2a27a16fff9a7d53ea018&oe=5EADC75B

Georgians are most similar to people from Eastern Turkey, both genetically and physically imho

People from these region(Georgians,Eastern Turks,Armenians etc..) are mostly Mtebid and Armenoid in physical look imho

[user_]

Georgians are most similar to people from Eastern Turkey, both genetically and physically imho

Let's clarify. Georgians are close to North-Eastern Turkey, who has significant Caucasus influence, not just Eastern Turkey.
Also North-Eastern Turkey has the most euro looking people in Turkey. If by Euro we mean light eyes/hair and skin.

[Kivan]

Let's clarify. Georgians are close to North-Eastern Turkey, who has significant Caucasus influence, not just Eastern Turkey.
Also North-Eastern Turkey has the most euro looking people in Turkey. If by Euro we mean light eyes/hair and skin.

No. Natives of Thrace and Western Anatolia are the most "Euro-looking"/lighter people of Turkey on average.

[Aileron]

Let's clarify. Georgians are close to North-Eastern Turkey, who has significant Caucasus influence, not just Eastern Turkey.
Also North-Eastern Turkey has the most euro looking people in Turkey. If by Euro we mean light eyes/hair and skin.

Hmm nope, Georgians are mostly Armenoids,Mtebids in physical look and similar to people from Eastern Turkey overall and look kinda Eastern compared to Western Anatolian and Balkan Turks.

Some of you are depigmented indeed but they are mostly depigmented Armenoids mostly and these people look just depigmented middle easterners imho(bigger nose etc..)

[user_]

No. Natives of Thrace and Western Anatolia are the most "Euro-looking"/lighter people of Turkey.


Hmm nope, Georgians are mostly Armenoids,Mtebids in physical look and similar to people from Eastern Turkey overall and look kinda Eastern compared to Western Anatolian and Balkan Turks.

Some of you are depigmented indeed but they are mostly depigmented Armenoids mostly and these people look just depigmented middle easterners imho

My personal experience while traveling in Turkey was that Artvin people had much more blue eyed/blond people than any other region in Turkey. Especially the remote villages in mountains.

Here is a map of light eyes as you see Lazona has the lightest in Turkey.
https://s019.radikal.ru/i621/1706/f7/d3471806953e.jpg (http://radikal.ru/big/o93jws40vmlod)

And here is a sun irradiation map of Turkey,where again Lazona has almost same level of irradiation as Britain, while other parts of Turkey are very sunny and dry.
https://i.ibb.co/pKS476h/f420fb31d997.jpg (https://ibb.co/B69TpHn)
школа балета шоукласс (https://showclassdance.ru/)

[Aileron]

My personal experience while traveling in Turkey was that Artvin people had much more blue eyed/blond people than any other region in Turkey. Especially the remote villages in mountains.

Here is a map of light eyes as you see Lazona has the lightest in Turkey.
https://s019.radikal.ru/i621/1706/f7/d3471806953e.jpg (http://radikal.ru/big/o93jws40vmlod)

And here is a sun irradiation map of Turkey,where again Lazona has almost same level of irradiation as Britain, while other parts of Turkey are very sunny and dry.
https://i.ibb.co/pKS476h/f420fb31d997.jpg (https://ibb.co/B69TpHn)
школа балета шоукласс (https://showclassdance.ru/)

What do you look like as a Georgian?

People from these regions are heavily Armenoid in look regardless off their pigmention

You can find many light pigmented even heavily Nordid mixed Kurds..

And interestingly for a small country, Georgia has variation too, it seems western Georgia the region close to Turkey has higher percent of light eyes..Why is that?

[Bornoz]

No. Natives of Thrace and Western Anatolia are the most "Euro-looking"/lighter people of Turkey on average.

Both Blacksea and Thrace can be lightest but not Western Anatolia.

[user_]

What do you look like as a Georgian?

People from these regions are heavily Armenoid in look regardless off their pigmention

You can even find many light pigmented even heavily Nordid mixed Kurds..

And interestingly for a small country, Georgia has variation too, it seems western Georgia the region close to Turkey has higher percent of light eyes..Why is that?

Because in Caucasus skin tone or eye color does not correlate with north/south, but mostly with west/east. Western or Black Sea Caucasians are Pontids, Eastern Caucasians are mostly Mtebids.

[Aileron]

Because in Caucasus skin tone or eye color does not correlate with north/south, but mostly with west/east. Western or Black Sea Caucasians are Pontids, Eastern Caucasians are mostly Mtebids.

Thanks for the info

[user_]

This guy is Laz, from NE Turkey, he has a biggest nose in the world. And he looks absolutely European. So big nose does not mean non euro phenotype.
https://i.ibb.co/HTv5C8W/b86df1f06fa295314a406041ec1d7994.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/4TQrLt2/IHA-20101019-108426.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/gv9PDSL/Mehmet-Ozyurek-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/HN4xrtf)

[Leto]

Because in Caucasus skin tone or eye color does not correlate with north/south, but mostly with west/east. Western or Black Sea Caucasians are Pontids, Eastern Caucasians are mostly Mtebids.
Mountainous Dagestan is the most Euro HG admixed part of the Caucasus. They can score 25% North_European.

[Mesoman]

I mean, if you are one of those Turks who have like 45% Balkan or Greek DNA then yes but I think Georgians are more Euro shifted than native Anatolians

What makes you think that Georgians are more euro shifted than Anatolians?

[Mesoman]

Because in Caucasus skin tone or eye color does not correlate with north/south, but mostly with west/east. Western or Black Sea Caucasians are Pontids, Eastern Caucasians are mostly Mtebids.

More like mtebid+ armenoid/iranid in Kakheti and some parts of kartli.

[Leto]

What makes you think that Georgians are more euro shifted than Anatolians?
Another good topic to weigh in on
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?296768-Armenians-Do-they-have-any-Indo-European-genes&highlight=Armenians+Steppe

[Frowning Man]

What do you look like as a Georgian?

People from these regions are heavily Armenoid in look regardless off their pigmention

You can find many light pigmented even heavily Nordid mixed Kurds..

And interestingly for a small country, Georgia has variation too, it seems western Georgia the region close to Turkey has higher percent of light eyes..Why is that?

No. Adjara is in contact with Turkey, they are not the most depigmented in Georgia, as you are trying to assert, and even more so in western Georgia, the most depigmented are the Imeretians, Megrels and Guritsy are the regions that do not contact Turkey. Western Georgians are not pontids, but dinarized pontids, that is, pontids subjected to mountain influence. And no Armenoid is the most common anthrotype in Georgia, this is idiocy, this anthrotype is more common in the southeastern part (for example, Tbilisi), in those regions where historically many Armenians, Kurds and others lived. And this does not mean that even there are more than half of the Armenoids. Most Georgians are mtebids, pontids and a mixture of pontids and mtebids. And the fact that the Georgians are similar to the Eastern Turks is completely nonsense. The same Laza living in Turkey in pigmentation may be similar to Georgians, but they are more graceful than we are. Lazs living in Georgia have broader faces.

[Pater Patota]

We are genetically x2-3 times more European than Georgians

Oh, this generalization.

On most of the gedmatch calcs, I’m just a west asian, I don’t even score any euro on single population.

[Mejgusu]

Oh, this generalization.

On most of the gedmatch calcs, I’m just a west asian, I don’t even score any euro on single population.

I guess you don't have Turkic ancestry, can I ask you from which provinces your parents are from? I see on you signature you are at least genetically a Kurdish-North Caucasian mix, both already have steppe admixture. But the guy which you quoted is not right, maybe on average Turks are more steppe but considering the huge amount of Balkan Turks that is normal, on the other hand northern Georgians are more steppe than an average Turk.


Another good topic to weigh in on
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?296768-Armenians-Do-they-have-any-Indo-European-genes&highlight=Armenians+Steppe

I once read that when Seljuks came to Anatolia, Eastern and especially SE-Anatolia was populated by huge numbers of Semitic speaking Christians like Assyrians and even big communities of Jews. It could be that at least the first groups was absorbed by Armenians which could be the reason why they are not much steppe autosomally but very southern comparing to their neighbors.

[princeton90]

Georgians.

[Pater Patota]

I guess you don't have Turkic ancestry, can I ask you from which provinces your parents are from? I see on you signature you are at least genetically a Kurdish-North Caucasian mix, both already have steppe admixture. But the guy which you quoted is not right, maybe on average Turks are more steppe but considering the huge amount of Balkan Turks that is normal, on the other hand northern Georgians are more steppe than an average Turk.



I once read that when Seljuks came to Anatolia, Eastern and especially SE-Anatolia was populated by huge numbers of Semitic speaking Christians like Assyrians and even big communities of Jews. It could be that at least the first groups was absorbed by Armenians which could be the reason why they are not much steppe autosomally but very southern comparing to their neighbors.

My paternal ancestry is from Tunceli(Kurdish), Erzincan(Zaza) and Malatya(Ethnic Turk or Kurdish).Maternal ancestry is half Circassian(Adyghe), half Albanian, both Circassian and Albanian ancestry immigrated to Anatolia in late Ottoman period(before 1900).I don’t know I have any Armenian or Georgian ancestry but i usually get Turkish, Armenian, Georgian, Georgian Jew, Uzbekistan Jew, Azeri, Kurd, Assyrian, Circassian and Kumyk on gedmatch calculators.

[Mejgusu]

My paternal ancestry is from Tunceli(Kurdish), Erzincan(Zaza) and Malatya(Ethnic Turk or Kurdish).Maternal ancestry is half Circassian(Adyghe), half Albanian, both Circassian and Albanian ancestry immigrated to Anatolia in late Ottoman period(before 1900).I don’t know I have any Armenian or Georgian ancestry but i usually get Turkish, Armenian, Georgian, Georgian Jew, Uzbekistan Jew, Azeri, Kurd, Assyrian, Circassian and Kumyk on gedmatch calculators.

Tunceli is genetically a very interesting place, so it is difficult to say something about there but you probably inherited some steppe from the other parts and considering your maternal ancestry you are more steppe than most Turks and Georgians.

[Pater Patota]

Tunceli is genetically a very interesting place, so it is difficult to say something about there but you probably inherited some steppe from the other parts and considering your maternal ancestry you are more steppe than most Turks and Georgians.

It seems i’m very Turkish On mdlp k23b calculator, this calculator places me North East.

Distance to: PaterPatota
5.14601788 Turkey_Azeri
5.97750784 Turk
6.26388059 Turk_Kayseri
6.34100938 Turk_East
6.42501362 Azeri_Iran
6.56854626 Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
6.83989766 Turk_Adana
7.21084600 Turk_Central
7.26978679 Turks_Anatolia
7.87642051 Azeri
7.90322719 Kurd_North
8.59213012 Turk_South
8.84072395 Uzbek_Tashkent
9.07968612 Georgian_Jew
9.28502558 Turk_Istanbul
9.87028368 Zaza
9.91335463 Turk_West
10.22231383 Turk_Northwest
10.36828337 Armenian_East
10.65360033 Kurd_South
10.76771564 Uzbekistani_Jew
10.82749278 Turk_Aydin
10.99741788 Kurd
11.00367211 Baku_WGA
11.30586573 Kurd_East

Target: PaterPatota
Distance: 2.0790% / 2.07903475 | ADC: 0.25x RC
49.4 Turk_Kayseri
16.6 Azeri_Iran
16.0 Kurd_North
11.9 Lezgin
6.1 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR

Target: PaterPatota
Distance: 3.0613% / 3.06125501 | ADC: 0.5x RC
32.4 Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
24.9 Turk
23.4 Turk_Kayseri
16.5 Stalskoe_Kumyk
2.8 Turkey_Azeri

On Gedmatch


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.42
2 South_Central_Asian 20.34
3 European_Early_Farmers 10.11
4 Near_East 9.13
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.07
6 Ancestral_Altaic 3.63
7 Tungus-Altaic 3.18
8 North_African 1.69
9 East_Siberian 1.01
10 Austronesian 0.98
11 Archaic_African 0.67
12 Australoid 0.62
13 South_Indian 0.61
14 Paleo_Siberian 0.21
15 East_African 0.14
16 Archaic_Human 0.12
17 Subsaharian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turk_Adana ( ) 5.63
2 Turk ( ) 6.26
3 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 6.27
4 Azeri ( ) 6.79
5 Kurd_North ( ) 7.11
6 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 8.39
7 Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) 8.44
8 Georgian_Jew ( ) 9.67
9 Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) 9.68
10 Kurd ( ) 9.92
11 Turk_Aydin ( ) 9.94
12 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 10.29
13 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 10.48
14 Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) 10.53
15 Kurd_East ( ) 10.64
16 Kurd_South ( ) 11.13
17 Baku_WGA ( ) 11.16
18 Iraqi_Mandean ( ) 11.82
19 Kurd_Jew ( ) 11.88
20 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 12.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 16.1% Tajik_Yagnobi ( ) @ 2.2
2 93.4% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 6.6% Kalash ( ) @ 2.38
3 92.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 7.2% Brahui ( ) @ 2.65
4 87.5% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 12.5% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 2.65
5 88.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 11.8% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 2.69
6 92% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 8% Makrani ( ) @ 2.75
7 92.3% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 7.7% Balochi ( ) @ 2.76
8 76.9% Azeri ( ) + 23.1% Central_Greek ( ) @ 2.8
9 78.7% Azeri ( ) + 21.3% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 2.86
10 89.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 10.8% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 2.86
11 76.7% Azeri ( ) + 23.3% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 2.96
12 78.7% Azeri ( ) + 21.3% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 2.99
13 89.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 10.8% Pashtun_Afghani ( ) @ 3
14 70.8% Azeri ( ) + 29.2% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) @ 3.01
15 74.7% Azeri ( ) + 25.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 3.06
16 75.9% Azeri ( ) + 24.1% Greek ( ) @ 3.07
17 77.7% Azeri ( ) + 22.3% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) @ 3.09
18 80.2% Azeri ( ) + 19.8% Kosovar ( ) @ 3.09
19 68.2% Turk_Adana ( ) + 31.8% Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) @ 3.14
20 61% Kurd ( ) + 39% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) @ 3.15

I score 4.4% East Euroasian on k23b, I didn’t add ancestral Altaic because I’ve seen many people said it’s only steppe, not Mongoloid/East Euroasian.

[Mejgusu]

....

Can you send your Dodecad 12kb? If you want you can send it to me privately.