Why I Left Islam and Became a Christian

[Loki]

The touching story of the life of Iranian ex-Muslim Mohamad Faridi:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckDwCuTFUGg

[Dick]

Good for him

[Alphawolf]

Modus vivendi is the magic formula. Have you recently developed a challenge against Muslims?

[Loki]

Have you recently developed a challenge against Muslims?

What do you mean?

[Cristiano viejo]

Muslims aré retard, ex muslims aré brilliant.

[Altaison]

Muslims aré retard, ex muslims aré brilliant.

What about atheist/agnostic/deistic league?

[Halgurd]

There are many Christian converts to Islam as well. I don't see why we need to point this out especially considering that Islam is the fastest growing religion by conversion.

[Adamm]

He claims to be an Iranian from Tehran, I've never seen an Iranian look like that...

[TheMaestro]

If it makes him a better person and he feels more comfortable, why not.

[Vojnik]

There are many Christian converts to Islam as well. I don't see why we need to point this out especially considering that Islam is the fastest growing religion by conversion.

People converting to Islam in the west are just messed up losers who were bullied in school, have it in for the Christian church for whatever reason, or those who believe the western media lies that Christianity was the root of all evil through history with colonization etc.

Conversion to the religion of death can grow double in speed, still does not make it right. Without Jesus as God, they are in trouble.

[Avicenna]

People converting to Islam in the west are just messed up losers who were bullied in school, have it in for the Christian church for whatever reason, or those who believe the western media lies that Christianity was the root of all evil through history with colonization etc.

Conversion to the religion of death can grow double in speed, still does not make it right. Without Jesus as God, they are in trouble.

Don't think so man

https://youtu.be/k949k51XNOE
https://youtu.be/FlezBgpN-6Y

No offence but I cannot believe someone with a sound mind and intellect would choose Christianity . That's just my view .

[Ford]

Don't think so man

https://youtu.be/k949k51XNOE
https://youtu.be/FlezBgpN-6Y

No offence but I cannot believe someone with a sound mind and intellect would choose Christianity . That's just my view .

And someone with a sound intellect would choose Islam instead? Lmao the arrogance of some people...

[Halgurd]

People converting to Islam in the west are just messed up losers who were bullied in school, have it in for the Christian church for whatever reason, or those who believe the western media lies that Christianity was the root of all evil through history with colonization etc.

Conversion to the religion of death can grow double in speed, still does not make it right. Without Jesus as God, they are in trouble.

You guys need to stop pushing this Christianity vs Islam narrative. Both can co exist side by side.

[Avicenna]

And someone with a sound intellect would choose Islam instead? Lmao the arrogance of some people...

Why are you creating a strawman lol?

[Synapsid]

You guys need to stop pushing this Christianity vs Islam narrative. Both can co exist side by side.

Neither religion has no basis in reality. Creations of Men to organize society in a time when emperical rationalist view point were uncommon

[Avicenna]

You guys need to stop pushing this Christianity vs Islam narrative. Both can co exist side by side.

If you notice it's always the Christians creating pointless threads. If we wanted to we could post 100 videos of Christians converting to Islam , so what though ?

[Synapsid]

Why are you creating a strawman lol?

All religions are false.

[Ford]

You guys need to stop pushing this Christianity vs Islam narrative. Both can co exist side by side.

Islam is a Trojan horse in any Christian society.

[Halgurd]

If you notice it's always the Christians creating pointless threads. If we wanted to we could post 100 videos of Christians converting to Islam , so what though ?

Yep that's how it is on this forum. Just look at the Islam section and the type of threads that these people have made, Loki included.

But somehow we are made out to be the aggressive ones.

[Halgurd]

Islam is a Trojan horse in any Christian society.

Would you say the same for Christians in an Islamic society?

[Halgurd]

Neither religion has no basis in reality. Creations of Men to organize society in a time when emperical rationalist view point were uncommon

Your personal opinion which I shall respect.

[Avicenna]

All religions are false.

Are you stating that as a fact or is that your belief ?

[Vojnik]

Don't think so man

https://youtu.be/k949k51XNOE
https://youtu.be/FlezBgpN-6Y

No offence but I cannot believe someone with a sound mind and intellect would choose Christianity . That's just my view .

How can someone with a sound mind worship a crazy, murderous pirate who heard voices in a cave (Mohammad's supposed revelations from the angel Gabriel)?

[Halgurd]

How can someone with a sound mind worship a crazy, murderous pirate who heard voices in a cave (Mohammad's supposed revelations from the angel Gabriel)?

You shouldn't really use such analogies especially in a disrespectful manner. Do you think atheists don't say the same of a woman giving birth to a child whilst maintaining her virginity (which we also believe btw)?

It is all about faith. Qur'an 109:1-6

Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

[Altaison]

All religions are false.

Truth. People fear becoming nothingness after death, but we may will be like how we were like before even existing as an embryo. Those Christians, Muslims, Jews writings the religions didn't have knowledge we had these days. No miracle happened after invention of cameras.

[Vojnik]

You shouldn't really use such analogies especially in a disrespectful manner. Do you think atheists don't say the same of a woman giving birth to a child whilst maintaining her virginity (which we also believe btw)?

It is all about faith. Qur'an 109:1-6

Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

Your story of the virgin birth in the Quran is not the same as the one in the Bible. Yours has been distorted.

[Ford]

Would you say the same for Christians in an Islamic society?

In theory, sure, why not. But the reality for Christians in the east is quite different. Not like Christians are congregating in Islamic societies either.

[Synapsid]

You shouldn't really use such analogies especially in a disrespectful manner. Do you think atheists don't say the same of a woman giving birth to a child whilst maintaining her virginity (which we also believe btw)?

It is all about faith. Qur'an 109:1-6

Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

Parthenogenesis is not possible in Primates, but as an orthodox Muslim, you really can't accept that Human are primates (creation of adam, etc)
And the Virgin Mary is rehashing of Near Eastern and Greek Virgin birth stories.

[Synapsid]

Your story of the virgin birth in the Quran is not the same as the one in the Bible. Yours has been distorted.

Its based on the Infancy gospel, which was common in the near east. In fact Arabia was Seabed of Christian and Jewish Heresies, since it was outside the jurisdiction of non abrahamic socities like Eastern Roman Empire or Axum etc.

[Nassbean]

Its based on the Infancy gospel, which was common in the near east. In fact Arabia was Seabed of Christian and Jewish Heresies, since it was outside the jurisdiction of non abrahamic socities like Eastern Roman Empire or Axum etc.

It's not a good idea to talk about this here you'll get banned soon

[Synapsid]

Truth. People fear becoming nothingness after death, but we may will be like how we were like before even existing as an embryo. Those Christians, Muslims, Jews writings the religions didn't have knowledge we had these days. No miracle happened after invention of cameras.

Correction, no miracles existed between the invention of the Camera and Photoshop.
And yes, the fear of Eternal oblivion and the fact that Humans are just another Species of animals scare some people

[Avicenna]

How can someone with a sound mind worship a crazy, murderous pirate who heard voices in a cave (Mohammad's supposed revelations from the angel Gabriel)?

Calm down mate. I like you as a member here and your posts are quite humourous but no need to slander . Stop buying into the islamophobic narrative firstly . Secondly , I just showed you two clips where there is a English lad who has everything , converting to Islam based on what ? Watch the video and you tell me . Why would a English lad Want to become Muslim when you can't drink , sleep around , gamble etc etc ? We can pm each other if you want to have a discussion without the "audience "

[Synapsid]

It's not a good idea to talk about this here you'll get banned soon

Yeah, I'll stop, I got strong feeling about religion lol

[Avicenna]

Truth. People fear becoming nothingness after death, but we may will be like how we were like before even existing as an embryo. Those Christians, Muslims, Jews writings the religions didn't have knowledge we had these days. No miracle happened after invention of cameras.
Hypothetically , what if your wrong ? Would you say you are in trouble ?

[Synapsid]

Hypothetically , what if your wrong ? Would you say you are in trouble ?

Pascals Wager, Really?

[Avicenna]

It's not a good idea to talk about this here you'll get banned soon

It's a European forum so it makes sense. People are very sensitive when it comes to religoun and that understandable. I'm not here to slander Christianity . We can have a discussion but I think Alot of members including moderators wouldnt like that tbh .

[Avicenna]

Pascals Wager, Really?
Pascal's wager is between Christians . I've not mentioned that at all. I just asked him , what if your wrong ?

Now here's my question to you . Is it reasonable to believe the universe requires a cause ?

[Altaison]

Hypothetically , what if your wrong ? Would you say you are in trouble ?

I live more virtuous than average Abrahamic believer. If God sends me hell forever for a limited life without sins, this means he is not just. How a God can be unjust?

[Avicenna]

I live more virtuous than average Abrahamic believer. If God sends me hell forever for a limited life without sins, this means he is not just. How a God can be unjust?
You live a virtuous life according to who ?

Are you a good person if you take care of your neighbours but neglect and ignore your parents ?

[Avicenna]

I live more virtuous than average Abrahamic believer. If God sends me hell forever for a limited life without sins, this means he is not just. How a God can be unjust?

Without sins ? I'll ask again, whose criteria are you using to define what is a "sin" and " not a sin'?.

[Nassbean]

Correction, no miracles existed between the invention of the Camera and Photoshop.
And yes, the fear of Eternal oblivion and the fact that Humans are just another Species of animals scare some people

What's your opinion about NDE ?

[Altaison]

You live a virtuous life according to who ?

Are you a good person if you take care of your neighbours but neglect and ignore your parents ?

According to Abrahamic religions.
I look after my family including parents and siblings financially, it's in Turkish culture, if it's needed. I go to market my old neighbors grocery etc. Lol, no one needs Abrahamic religions and 72 virgins in heaven to be good. It's tribal human nature to do favors and get them sometimes.

[Avicenna]

According to Abrahamic religions.
I look after my family including parents and siblings financially, it's in Turkish culture, if it's needed. I go to market my old neighbors grocery etc. Lol, no one needs Abrahamic religions and 72 virgins in heaven to be good. It's tribal human nature to do favors and get them sometimes.

Why are you bringing up the 72 virgins lol?

Yes but God requires you to do all that AND acknowledge the creator . You can't be a good believer if you acknowledge the creator and cause corruption , be evil, chest , lie , steal to the people . You have to do both . That's where you have misunderstood

I'll ask again , whose criteria are you using to define you are a good person ? Turkish culture?

[Avicenna]

How can someone with a sound mind worship a crazy, murderous pirate who heard voices in a cave (Mohammad's supposed revelations from the angel Gabriel)?

Who do you think Muhammed pbuh encountered in the cave ?

[Altaison]

Why are you bringing up the 72 virgins lol?

Yes but God requires you to do all that AND acknowledge the creator . You can't be a good believer if you acknowledge the creator and cause corruption , be evil, chest , lie , steal to the people . You have to do both . That's where you have misunderstood

I'll ask again , whose criteria are you using to define you are a good person ? Turkish culture?

To show how average religious person is pragmatist by expecting endless heaven with virgins and rivers of wines. This doesn't sound virtuous to me.

Conventional Abrahamic standards for a good person definition.

[Synapsid]

Pascal's wager is between Christians . I've not mentioned that at all. I just asked him , what if your wrong ?

Now here's my question to you . Is it reasonable to believe the universe requires a cause ?

Let me guess, you gonna use Kalam's cosmological arguemnt? The concept of a first cause is based outdated Aristotelian logic.
Lets put the Arguement into its syllogistic form:

Premise 1: Everything that exists/begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
Premise 2: The universe exists/began to exist.
Conclusion: Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.

Well, what wrong with arguement? Well firstly first Self-causation is impossible, Related to the infinite regress of causes is the idea that something may cause itself to come into being. Theists (such as yourself) argues that this is impossible based on the account of it never having been empirically observed, but also because of the impossibility and absurdity of an object causing itself. Specifically, for an object to cause itself to come into being, it must be prior to itself. This expressly forbids the universe from causing itself, which would otherwise scupper the conclusion. This line of reason does not interestingly enough, apply the laws of physics. Why? Because the concept of 'being Prior' i.e. before preceding something in time, requires time to already have existed. Think about

Also, one will also have to ask the question, if 'God' was this ultimate cause, then surely using this line of reasoning, God should have a first cause? Ah, but you would say 'God Omnipotence he was always there'. This is a special pleading fallacy. While everything in the universe is assumed to have a cause, God is free from this requirement. However, while some phrasings of the argument may state that "everything has a cause" as one of the premises (thus contradicting the conclusion of the existence of an uncaused cause), there are also many versions that explicitly or implicitly allow for non-beginning or necessary entities not to have a cause. In the end, the point of the premises is to suggest that reality is a causally-connected whole and that all causal chains originate from a single point, posited to be God. That many people using this argument would consider God exempt from various requirements is a foregone conclusion, but citing "special pleading" because finite causal chains are said to have an uncaused beginning is hardly a convincing objection.

Also, there could be multiple causes, ever seen Acyclic Graphs, very interest field of Area (quite complex).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_acyclic_graph

Also in modern science,natural phenomena have been discovered whose causes have not yet been discerned or are non-existent. The best known example is radioactive decay. Although decay follows statistical laws and it's possible to predict the amount of a radioactive substance that will decay over a period of time, it is impossible to predict when a specific atom will disintegrate Currently.

Also, there is no current Prohibition no first causes in modern science (as I said before, it based on outdated Aristotelian and Platonic logic). In the standard cosmological model, inflation makes it debatable whether the multiverse had a beginning or not. Theoretical physicists continue to propose models of eternal Universes, such as Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology

Even in an environment of True nothingness, there is something. Both Stephan Hawkings and Lewrence Kruass dispute the concept of true nothingness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle

Assuming your argument successes (it does not), at best, the conclusion we end up with is that their is an first cause, or 'God' if you like that term. Its does say much about the nature of the first cause, at best, the position should be agnostic and at worst, the position is Deistic. Its make no inference about Holy books, holy sites, chosen people. chosen men, holy men, what meats you can eat, what sex position you allowed to have, which rock to bow down to or revere or what language the first cause prefers man to recite (basically pulses of waves in the air, which has no measured effect on physical reality). Which why Muslim apologestics make ludicrous empirical arguments such as 'Scientific Miracles in the Quran'

[Avicenna]

To show how average religious person is pragmatist by expecting endless heaven with virgins and rivers of wines. This doesn't sound virtuous to me.

Conventional Abrahamic standards for a good person definition.

Okay the 72 virgins I'll put to bed :

The Sunni hadith scholar Tirmidhi quotes the prophet Muhammad as having said:

"The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[33][34]

However, others object that the narration granting all men seventy-two wives has a weak chain of narrators."[35]

I don't even know why that is such a atrocious thing lol? Mens weakness are women . What better than the greatest reward most men would dream of ? Anyways that's a weak hadith. If you know the science behind hadiths then you wouldn't bring it up in the first place .

What sounds virtuous to you or not , in all honesty , with the greatest respect, doesn't matter at all. Your opinion is purely subjective at the end of the day . iF a creator exists ,( IF) then what you think is irrelevant .

[Synapsid]

What's your opinion about NDE ?

Probably caused by leftover Oxygen still left in Neural tissues.

[Avicenna]

Let me guess, you gonna use Kalam's cosmological arguemnt? The concept of a first cause is based outdated Aristotelian logic.
Lets put the Arguement into its syllogistic form:

Premise 1: Everything that exists/begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
Premise 2: The universe exists/began to exist.
Conclusion: Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.

Well, what wrong with arguement? Well firstly first Self-causation is impossible, Related to the infinite regress of causes is the idea that something may cause itself to come into being. Theists (such as yourself) argues that this is impossible based on the account of it never having been empirically observed, but also because of the impossibility and absurdity of an object causing itself. Specifically, for an object to cause itself to come into being, it must be prior to itself. This expressly forbids the universe from causing itself, which would otherwise scupper the conclusion. This line of reason does not interestingly enough, apply the laws of physics. Why? Because the concept of 'being Prior' i.e. before preceding something in time, requires time to already have existed. Think about

Also, one will also have to ask the question, if 'God' was this ultimate cause, then surely using this line of reasoning, God should have a first cause? Ah, but you would say 'God Omnipotence he was always there'. This is a special pleading fallacy. While everything in the universe is assumed to have a cause, God is free from this requirement. However, while some phrasings of the argument may state that "everything has a cause" as one of the premises (thus contradicting the conclusion of the existence of an uncaused cause), there are also many versions that explicitly or implicitly allow for non-beginning or necessary entities not to have a cause. In the end, the point of the premises is to suggest that reality is a causally-connected whole and that all causal chains originate from a single point, posited to be God. That many people using this argument would consider God exempt from various requirements is a foregone conclusion, but citing "special pleading" because finite causal chains are said to have an uncaused beginning is hardly a convincing objection.

Also, there could be multiple causes, ever seen Acyclic Graphs, very interest field of Area (quite complex).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_acyclic_graph

Also in modern science,natural phenomena have been discovered whose causes have not yet been discerned or are non-existent. The best known example is radioactive decay. Although decay follows statistical laws and it's possible to predict the amount of a radioactive substance that will decay over a period of time, it is impossible to predict when a specific atom will disintegrate Currently.

Also, there is no current Prohibition no first causes in modern science (as I said before, it based on outdated Aristotelian and Platonic logic). In the standard cosmological model, inflation makes it debatable whether the multiverse had a beginning or not. Theoretical physicists continue to propose models of eternal Universes, such as Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology

Even in an environment of True nothingness, there is something. Both Stephan Hawkings and Lewrence Kruass dispute the concept of true nothingness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle

Assuming your argument successes (it does not), at best, the conclusion we end up with is that their is an first cause, or 'God' if you like that term. Its does say much about the nature of the first cause, at best, the position should be agnostic and at worst, the position is Deistic. Its make no inference about Holy books, holy sites, chosen people. chosen men, holy men, what meats you can eat, what sex position you allowed to have, which rock to bow down to or revere or what language the first cause prefers man to recite (basically pulses of waves in the air, which has no measured effect on physical reality). Which why Muslim apologestics make ludicrous empirical arguments such as 'Scientific Miracles in the Quran'

Honestly you've just rambled on stating theories without giving reasonable reasons . Kalams cosmological arguement is a very reasonable argument based on observation . In the known universe , everything requires a cause . The universe itself is contingent therefore the universe could not have caused itself nor always existed . According to Consensus science , the universe had a starting point . Even Stephen hawking concluded the universe would need an uncaused cause , but didn't know what it could be . Your theories are at best other alternatives for reasons to believe how the universe came to existence without the need for a cause , but that's just theory models without any reasonable evidence.

Whatever caused the universe by necessity has to be uncaused , as the issue of infinite regression will arise .

I'll just leave this debate taken place at Oxford university .

https://youtu.be/1n-zYRZy5NQ

[Synapsid]

To show how average religious person is pragmatist by expecting endless heaven with virgins and rivers of wines. This doesn't sound virtuous to me.

Conventional Abrahamic standards for a good person definition.

And its physically impossible, a Mind outside of a brain. Read the interesting correspondence between rene descartes and the queen christina about the soul

[Nassbean]

Probably caused by leftover Oxygen still left in Neural tissues.

Then how do you explain the fact that they were able to hear discussions at the other side of the Hospital ? Also why would a brain in lack of oxygen produce such vision ? Why always the same kind of visions all around the world ?

here the opinion of a neurosurgeon who had an NDE :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpJoM1Yvm-Y

I'm extremely pragmatic but in the case of NDE it's still a plain mystery

[Avicenna]

Then how do you explain the fact that they were able to hear discussions at the other side of the Hospital ? Also why would a brain in lack of oxygen produce such vision ? Why always the same kind of visions all around the world ?

here the opinion of a neurosurgeon who had an NDE :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpJoM1Yvm-Y

I'm extremely pragmatic but in the case of NDE it's still a plain mystery

NDE could just be hallucinations too . Some could be real but I doubt they saw a slice of the hereafter. The veil of the unseen is lifted when the soul leaves the body and enters the hereafter .

[Methuselah]

Also, there is no current Prohibition no first causes in modern science (as I said before, it based on outdated Aristotelian and Platonic logic). In the standard cosmological model, inflation makes it debatable whether the multiverse had a beginning or not. Theoretical physicists continue to propose models of eternal Universes, such as Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology
Sorry for sticking my nose in your conversation, but there are things which can't be called good science and things which can be called good science. Cyclic model is not a model better than some fractal new age stuff or Theistic takes on Big Bang cosmology. There is no proper mechanism which could cause cosmos to rearrange itself eternally and go through cycles. Actually it's even worse than that; eternal cycles seem to be improbable from what we know about cosmology. Penrose himself called his theory "a crazy theory". A crazy theory based on mechanical, naturalistic explanation is just as abstract explanation as God.

What comes to inflationary models and the multiverse, we don't know yet if we are part of the multiverse. If we are, then many models still have a beginning but inflation goes on eternally. It's not eternal in the past unless you trick eternal space time of some sort with quantum fluctuations all over it. This does not exist as far as i know. Also this universe is the only universe we can study, it might very well be that this is the only universe we have. Universe might not be as flat as we think [1] and inflation which was brought to solve the flatness problem too might go away, at least what comes to eternal inflation. Eternity is a mathematical concept, it's not a cosmological concept, we have to remember this. But a secular mind needs eternity of course, naturalistic and mechanical type of eternal mechanism, otherwise it's hard to escape from some sort of concept of God. Not like eternal creation and spirituality wouldn't fit, Jewish mysticism has that concept for instance. It's not really eternal but close enough.

[1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bzM0KLyZC0

Even in an environment of True nothingness, there is something. Both Stephan Hawkings and Lewrence Kruass dispute the concept of true nothingness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle
Well quantum nothingness is the best nothingness we can get, but that doesn't mean quantum physics are able to explain our existence just like that. We don't have a theory of quantum gravity neither do we know how to deal with a singularity.

[Nassbean]

NDE could just be hallucinations too . Some could be real but I doubt they saw a slice of the hereafter. The veil of the unseen is lifted when the soul leaves the body and enters the hereafter .

read my first question again pls ...it can't be hallucinations if these people were able to see their relatives in other rooms and listen to their discussions

[Synapsid]

Honestly you've just rambled on stating theories without giving reasonable reasons . Kalams cosmological arguement is a very reasonable argument based on observation . In the known universe , everything requires a cause . The universe itself is contingent therefore the universe could not have caused itself nor always existed . According to Consensus science , the universe had a starting point . Even Stephen hawking concluded the universe would need an uncaused cause , but didn't know what it could be . Your theories are at best other alternatives for reasons to believe how the universe came to existence without the need for a cause , but that's just theory models without any reasonable evidence.

Whatever caused the universe by necessity has to be uncaused , as the issue of infinite regression will arise .

I'll just leave this debate taken place at Oxford university .

https://youtu.be/1n-zYRZy5NQ

I doubt you read what I wrote, looking at how fast you replied.
Why should whatever caused the universe by necessity has to be uncaused? Because of the issue of infinite regression. Its an issue for you theists, not for most Scientists.
And what your conclusion, that is uncaused Agent is God, ergo, my religion is the truth and the Qur'an is the most sublime word of God? As rthe old Americans Saying goes, you cannot get there from here.
At best, you own argument called for an agnostic form of Deism. Most Muslim apologist know this and thus supplement their arguments either by making claims foreknown scientific knowledge in the Koran that cannot possibly come from an 7th century illiterate Arab (pre-supposing that the Hadith and Sirah's account of Mohammed is accurate) or arguments for the Qur'an literacy miracle (i.e. saying that Qur'an is written in such a way that it could only come from God). When one examines those arguments with scrutiny, its does not stand up to reasonable evidence, and most of claims are what Historians called 'reading between the lines', in other words, looking at verse and making exaggerated claims about them. In fact many of the claims are outright false (like Semen coming from the back bones an rips)

[Methuselah]

You live a virtuous life according to who ?

Are you a good person if you take care of your neighbours but neglect and ignore your parents ?

What is your take on Islamic apostasy laws? Do you think it's right to kill a person just because he or she disagrees with you on religion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy

[Nassbean]

Honestly you've just rambled on stating theories without giving reasonable reasons . Kalams cosmological arguement is a very reasonable argument based on observation . In the known universe , everything requires a cause . The universe itself is contingent therefore the universe could not have caused itself nor always existed . According to Consensus science , the universe had a starting point . Even Stephen hawking concluded the universe would need an uncaused cause , but didn't know what it could be . Your theories are at best other alternatives for reasons to believe how the universe came to existence without the need for a cause , but that's just theory models without any reasonable evidence.

Whatever caused the universe by necessity has to be uncaused , as the issue of infinite regression will arise .

I'll just leave this debate taken place at Oxford university .

https://youtu.be/1n-zYRZy5NQ

Well this argument lost its sense if we bring the multiverse theory ...

[catgeorge]

Jesus Christ existed.
Jesus Christ spread the word of God.

Good and Evil forces exist outside the physical world.

These forces were written in depth by Ancient Greeks and later Christians after Jesus Christ was born to set the path straight.

If people believe they are smarter than Jesus Christ then good luck to them but don't shove your ineptness and know-it-all persona on others as you lack fortitude, understanding and respect.

[Avicenna]

I doubt you read what I wrote, looking at how fast you replied.
Why should whatever caused the universe by necessity has to be uncaused? Because of the issue of infinite regression. Its an issue for you theists, not for most Scientists.
And what your conclusion, that is uncaused Agent is God, ergo, my religion is the truth and the Qur'an is the most sublime word of God? As rthe old Americans Saying goes, you cannot get there from here.
At best, you own argument called for an agnostic form of Deism. Most Muslim apologist know this and thus supplement their arguments either by making claims foreknown scientific knowledge in the Koran that cannot possibly come from an 7th century illiterate Arab (pre-supposing that the Hadith and Sirah's account of Mohammed is accurate) or arguments for the Qur'an literacy miracle (i.e. saying that Qur'an is written in such a way that it could only come from God). When one examines those arguments with scrutiny, its does not stand up to reasonable evidence, and most of claims are what Historians called 'reading between the lines', in other words, looking at verse and making exaggerated claims about them. In fact many of the claims are outright false (like Semen coming from the back bones an rips)

Outright false ? That claim has been refuted .

https://www.thedeenshow.com/scientific-quran-miracles-backbone-and-ribs/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/asadullahali.com/2020/01/23/backbone-ribs/amp/

You have created a strawman argument . No where did I mention god , Quran or prophet Muhammed .

[Synapsid]

What is your take on Islamic apostasy laws? Do you think it's right to kill a person just because he or she disagrees with you on religion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy

He will say that it was for Specific time period (like as if God is soppse to be contained by time lol). In real life, most Islamic scholar of the Sunni schools of thought agree that Apostacy is punishable by death. They only differ in time periods or how women factor in.

[Avicenna]

What is your take on Islamic apostasy laws? Do you think it's right to kill a person just because he or she disagrees with you on religion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy

https://youtu.be/2ZIwwBANpdg

[Avicenna]

He will say that it was for Specific time period (like as if God is soppse to be contained by time lol). In real life, most Islamic scholar of the Sunni schools of thought agree that Apostacy is punishable by death. They only differ in time periods or how women factor in.

Again creating strawmans lol. You have answered the question which wasn't aimed at you , assuming that's what I would say. Quite intellectually dishonest if I must say.

[Methuselah]

Jesus Christ existed.
Jesus Christ spread the word of God.

Good and Evil forces exist outside the physical world.

These forces were written in depth by Ancient Greeks and later Christians after Jesus Christ was born to set the path straight.

If people believe they are smarter than Jesus Christ then good luck to them but don't shove your ineptness and know-it-all persona on others as you lack fortitude, understanding and respect.

Do you think Jews took influenced from Greeks and Zoroastrians when dealing with the problem of evil and Satan? What's your theory on this, may i ask?

[Synapsid]

Outright false ? That claim has been refuted .

https://www.thedeenshow.com/scientific-quran-miracles-backbone-and-ribs/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/asadullahali.com/2020/01/23/backbone-ribs/amp/

You have created a strawman argument . No where did I mention god , Quran or prophet Muhammed .

Theological mumbo jumbo to safe face, by stating Suib for paternal male genetalia, still does not explain how Ribs fit in("its classical Arabic bro"). Oh wait let use ribs as metaphor for Eve :picard1:. Seminefral fluids and the duct is no where near the backbones and ribs. And Eve is a fictional Semitic character from Mesopotamian mythology.
Even here, you get a very incorrect concept of the origin of the Human species: 97172

Let alone the origin of the Universe, it completely fails to explain the origin of the Human Species.

[Synapsid]

Again creating strawmans lol. You have answered the question which wasn't aimed at you , assuming that's what I would say. Quite intellectually dishonest if I must say.

I should say have said probably, yeah sorry. But Apologists generally follow similar pattern of reasoning.

[Methuselah]

https://youtu.be/2ZIwwBANpdg

Is it wrong or not? I want to hear your opinion. ;)

[Avicenna]

Is it wrong or not? I want to hear your opinion. ;)

My opinion is not important . You are questioning Islam .

http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm

Your answer .

[Avicenna]

Theological mumbo jumbo to safe face, by stating Suib for paternal male genetalia, still does not explain how Ribs fit in("its classical Arabic bro"). Oh wait let use ribs as metaphor for Eve :picard1:. Seminefral fluids and the duct is no where near the backbones and ribs. And Eve is a fictional Semitic character from Mesopotamian mythology.
Even here, you get a very incorrect concept of the origin of the Human species: 97172

Let alone the origin of the Universe, it completely fails to explain the origin of the Human Species.

I could tell you haven't bothered to read the whole thing based on how quick your response was . :)

[Methuselah]

My opinion is not important . You are questioning Islam .

http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm

Your answer .

Well, most Muslim countries have apostasy laws so i assume that it's a right thing to do, to punish people with different religious views i mean.

EDIT: Many muslim countries do punish people, because there is no freedom of religion.

[Avicenna]

I should say have said probably, yeah sorry. But Apologists generally follow similar pattern of reasoning.

Do you happen to be familiar with answering Islam , apostate prophet and such ? Sure sounds like it . All the claims you think of have been refuted multiple times . I'll save you your time and trouble .

[Avicenna]

Well, most Muslim countries have apostasy laws so i assume that it's a right thing to do, to punish people with different religious views i mean.

Muslim countries also allow alcohol , casinos , nightclubs , brothels, strip clubs and such . Is that what Islam teaches ? You have misunderstood what apostate means according to the shariah . During the time of prophet Muhammed pbuh there were hypocrites and such present , yet they weren't put to death .

How would a citizen of the US be treated by the government for performing acts of treason ?

[Methuselah]

Muslim countries also allow alcohol , casinos , nightclubs , brothels, strip clubs and such . Is that what Islam teaches ? You have misunderstood what apostate means according to the shariah . During the time of prophet Muhammed pbuh there were hypocrites and such present , yet they weren't put to death .

How would a citizen of the US be treated by the government for performing acts of treason ?

Well, a good point that Muslim countries can also go against their own religion. But in general Muslims feel like it's a right thing to do, to punish unbelievers. It seems so, at least. Some Finnish Muslims were asked about this years ago, and they said that yes, gays deserve stoning in the Middle East. Similar stuff would obviously apply to unbelievers.

Hmm. USA allows people to have different views, no? But let's be honest. Mohammed butchered people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

[Synapsid]

I could tell you haven't bothered to read the whole thing based on how quick your response was . :)

Andalusi is using the Terms Suib and tara’ib as euphemism for the Paternal and Maternal Genetalia, based on the Qur'anic story of Adam and Eve (Hawah). But that presuppose that that creation has Basis in reality, I know Andalusi through his YT vids, he does not accept the theory of Evolution (I saw Andalusi debates videos, from his convert days in Early 2010s with Thunderf00t, to his Salafist phase debates to his more modern intellectual debate he has nower days about postmodernism

As I said before, the Islamic creation story has no basis in physical reality if taken literally. Even intellectual, Muslim scholars such as Menk and Hamza Yusuf, Hamaza Tzotitis, Sobor Ahmed, zakir Naik etc reject Human evolution.
This scientifically incorrect model of Human origin: 97173
This is a more scientifically plausible model of Human Origin: 97174

[Avicenna]

Well, a good point that Muslim countries can also go against their own religion. But in general is like it's a right thing to do, to punish other people. Some Finnish Muslims were asked about this years ago, and they said that yes, gays deserve stoning in the Middle East.

Hmm. USA allows people to have different views, no? But let's be honest. Mohammed butchered people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

Do you know the historical context behind Bani qurayda ?

https://youtu.be/_K8l79Vs8qc

Please please watch it man . Refuted once again .

Secondly , who cares what some Muslims in Finland think ?

[Marmara]

I understand leaving Islam, but converting to Christianity? That's cucked. Christianity is growing fast in Iran.

[Avicenna]

Andalusi is using the Terms Suib and tara’ib as euphemism for the Paternal and Maternal Genetalia, based on the Qur'anic story of Adam and Eve (Hawah). But that presuppose that that creation has Basis in reality, I know Andalusi through his YT vids, he does not accept the theory of Evolution (I saw Andalusi debates videos, from his convert days in Early 2010s with Thunderf00t, to his Salafist phase debates to his more modern intellectual debate he has nower days about postmodernism

As I said before, the Islamic creation story has no basis in physical reality if taken literally. Even intellectual, Muslim scholars such as Menk and Hamza Yusuf, Hamaza Tzotitis, Sobor Ahmed, zakir Naik etc reject Human evolution.
This scientifically incorrect model of Human origin: 97173
This is a more scientifically plausible model of Human Origin: 97174

Okay since you seem to be fixated on human evolution , there is going to be a live stream on Friday 2pm in regards to human evolution with suboor and other fellas . I'll pm you the details if you want and maybe you could join their discussion ?

Secondly , did you read the other link I posted ?I'll save you the trouble .

At first glance, a layman might think that SEMEN comes out from the testicles. While the SPERM is produced in the testicles, NEITHER is the sperm NOR is the seminal fluid (essential for natural fertilization) anywhere near them prior to ejaculation. The verse specifically mentions the entire fluid, and not just the sperm “component”. So let’s examine the process of emission, where all the components of semen are joined. Sperm is stored in the epididymis, which is not in the testicles, but above them. The Sperm which comprises 2 to 5% of the seminal fluid, , travels from the epididymis up through the Vas Deferens duct and around the bladder. Together, the seminal vesicle and the prostate gland produce 90% of the fluid in semen. This mixture travels through the prostate and is joined by mucus from the bulbourethral glands, just below the prostate.
www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/male-reproductive-system?page=2
en.allexperts.com/e/s/se/semen.htm 
en.allexperts.com/e/e/ej/ejaculation.htm

It is at this point that semen is fully formed, comprising both the sperm and the seminal fluids. As we can see, just prior to coming out of the body, all components of semen are mixed near the prostate, which is centered in the body, between the backbone and the ribs, or between the spine and the chest, which is between the back and front of the abdomen or torso, and most certainly not in the testicles or in the lower body at all.

Someone might object by saying: the ribs are too high to say “the prostate is between the backbone & the ribs.” To this objection, we answer that: the head is still between the shoulders even though it is too high, & the genitals are still between the legs, even though they are too high.

Now let’s check the verse again.
{ (Man is) created from gushing water (which) comes out from between the backbone * and the ribs *. }
This precise scientific description could not have been known 1400 years ago, and even today most people don’t know it, as we will see next.

SECOND
We will examine some false claims regarding the scientific accuracy of this verse.

In reference to this verse, answering-islam.org quotes mistake by Dr. William Campbell: “…we are left with the very real problem that the SEMEN IS COMING FROM the back or kidney area and not THE TESTICLES.”
answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/semenproduction.htm
www.answering-islam.org/Campbell/s4c2b.html

In fact, SEMEN does NOT come from the testicles. (only the SPERM is produced there, which comprises 2-5% of semen). And as we saw earlier, SEMEN IS ACTUALLY FORMED NEAR THE PROSTATE.

[Synapsid]

Do you happen to be familiar with answering Islam , apostate prophet and such ? Sure sounds like it . All the claims you think of have been refuted multiple times . I'll save you your time and trouble .

No, I am talking about organizations like IERA. They were in Coventry university in 2016 which I attended and later they were at my university in 2018, in a discussion about two part lecture, one about Human Evolution and the other about Scientific miracles (they no longer espouse that idea, after constant debunking, seeing it an handicap for their Dawahganda). You literally posted from a very Baised website, Answering Christianity, which even admits Islams incorrect creation story is canonical (using the same creationist tropes):

http://www.answering-christianity.com/evolution.htm

[Methuselah]

Do you know the historical context behind Bani qurayda ?

https://youtu.be/_K8l79Vs8qc

Please please watch it man . Refuted once again .

Secondly , who cares what some Muslims in Finland think ?

Finns care about what Muslims in Finland think.

Are you really saying that this Jewish tribe was a threat to them? Really? So Muslims had a right to conquer and butcher people just because these could possibly be a threat to them?

[Babak]

Actually, more and more Iranians(Specifically persians) are turning away from Islam and converting to either zoroastrianism, christianity, or atheism. Islam is becoming more reserved for Azeris, Kurds, and khorasanis.

[Synapsid]

Okay since you seem to be fixated on human evolution , there is going to be a live stream on Friday 2pm in regards to human evolution with suboor and other fellas . I'll pm you the details if you want and maybe you could join their discussion ?

Secondly , did you read the other link I posted ?I'll save you the trouble .

At first glance, a layman might think that SEMEN comes out from the testicles. While the SPERM is produced in the testicles, NEITHER is the sperm NOR is the seminal fluid (essential for natural fertilization) anywhere near them prior to ejaculation. The verse specifically mentions the entire fluid, and not just the sperm “component”. So let’s examine the process of emission, where all the components of semen are joined. Sperm is stored in the epididymis, which is not in the testicles, but above them. The Sperm which comprises 2 to 5% of the seminal fluid, , travels from the epididymis up through the Vas Deferens duct and around the bladder. Together, the seminal vesicle and the prostate gland produce 90% of the fluid in semen. This mixture travels through the prostate and is joined by mucus from the bulbourethral glands, just below the prostate.
www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/male-reproductive-system?page=2
en.allexperts.com/e/s/se/semen.htm
en.allexperts.com/e/e/ej/ejaculation.htm

It is at this point that semen is fully formed, comprising both the sperm and the seminal fluids. As we can see, just prior to coming out of the body, all components of semen are mixed near the prostate, which is centered in the body, between the backbone and the ribs, or between the spine and the chest, which is between the back and front of the abdomen or torso, and most certainly not in the testicles or in the lower body at all.

Someone might object by saying: the ribs are too high to say “the prostate is between the backbone & the ribs.” To this objection, we answer that: the head is still between the shoulders even though it is too high, & the genitals are still between the legs, even though they are too high.

Now let’s check the verse again.
{ (Man is) created from gushing water (which) comes out from between the backbone * and the ribs *. }
This precise scientific description could not have been known 1400 years ago, and even today most people don’t know it, as we will see next.

SECOND
We will examine some false claims regarding the scientific accuracy of this verse.

In reference to this verse, answering-islam.org quotes mistake by Dr. William Campbell: “…we are left with the very real problem that the SEMEN IS COMING FROM the back or kidney area and not THE TESTICLES.”
answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/semenproduction.htm
www.answering-islam.org/Campbell/s4c2b.html

In fact, SEMEN does NOT come from the testicles. (only the SPERM is produced there, which comprises 2-5% of semen). And as we saw earlier, SEMEN IS ACTUALLY FORMED NEAR THE PROSTATE.

Because Human origins is existential question, if fails in that, its not the product of a first cause designer. Religions exists to explain how presence on this planet (arguebly), if a belif system cannot get that right, that it will not get everything else right. And for christ sake, none of those regions (kidney, Prostates, Semenal glands) are not near the Ribs, and using the analogy that the Head is between the shoulders is word play. First you post sites saying the verse is an Euphemism for Adam and Eve, now you posting a site that states that the it is an accurate Anatomical detail?

[Joso]

Islam is very interesting

[Avicenna]

Finns care about what Muslims in Finland think.

Are you really saying that this Jewish tribe was a threat to them? Really? So Muslims had a right to conquer and butcher people just because these could possibly be a threat to them?

Did you even watch the video ?

They broke a treaty !! I suggest you brush up on your history before making accusations .

In 622, the Islamic prophet Muhammad arrived at Yathrib from Mecca and reportedly established a pact between the conflicting parties.[1][6][7] While the city found itself at war with Muhammad's native Meccan tribe of the Quraysh, tensions between the growing numbers of Muslims and the Jewish communities mounted.[5]

In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza initially tried to remain neutral but eventually entered into negotiations with the besieging army, violating the pact they had agreed to years earlier.[8] Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[9][10]

[Synapsid]

Actually, more and more Iranians(Specifically persians) are turning away from Islam and converting to either zoroastrianism, christianity, or atheism. Islam is becoming more reserved for Azeris, Kurds, and khorasanis.

Persians yes, Iranics like Afghans no. I mean look at Avacinna here, he is just like the Typical Afghan guy I debate with in my local debate park or hyde park (apologetics after apologetics, and general religious conservatism). I think the average Persian is more intellectual than Afghanis.

[Methuselah]

Did you even watch the video ?

They broke a treaty !! I suggest you brush up on your history before making accusations .

In 622, the Islamic prophet Muhammad arrived at Yathrib from Mecca and reportedly established a pact between the conflicting parties.[1][6][7] While the city found itself at war with Muhammad's native Meccan tribe of the Quraysh, tensions between the growing numbers of Muslims and the Jewish communities mounted.[5]

In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza initially tried to remain neutral but eventually entered into negotiations with the besieging army, violating the pact they had agreed to years earlier.[8] Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[9][10]

Mohammed demanded people to convert to Islam. What kind of treaty is that? Jews won't swallow that crap.

Americans and Russians might bomb the shit out of the Middle East because they feel a bit paranoid, almost like someone broke a treaty, i guess that's ok as well? The best defense is a good offense after all.

[Nassbean]

No one answered me about NDE....two fondamentalist sides confronting each other while the truth lies in between

[Adamm]

Wow, didn't anyone yet commented on the fact that the guy in that video claimed to be an Iranian from Teheran? Am I the only one here wondering if that guy really is Iranian taking into consideration that I've never seen an Iranian looking like that?

[Avicenna]

Mohammed demanded people to convert to Islam. What kind of treaty is that? Jews won't swallow that crap.

Americans and Russians might bomb the shit out of the Middle East because they feel a bit paranoid, almost like someone broke a treaty, i guess that's ok as well? The best defense is a good offense after all.

Demanded ? Again no evidence to back up your countless claims . It was a treaty to form an alliance against the pagan Arabs who were attacking the Muslims . Lol. You have shown your intellectual dishonesty. Bani qurayda were not being "demanded " to covert to Islam when that's not even the issue !!

[Nassbean]

Wow, didn't anyone yet commented on the fact that the guy in that video claimed to be an Iranian from Teheran? Am I the only one here wondering if that guy really is Iranian taking into consideration that I've never seen an Iranian looking like that?

Yes he looks very indian to me

[Avicenna]

Persians yes, Iranics like Afghans no. I mean look at Avacinna here, he is just like the Typical Afghan guy I debate with in my local debate park or hyde park (apologetics after apologetics, and general religious conservatism). I think the average Persian is more intellectual than Afghanis.

Intellectual ? On what grounds are you making that claim ? Get off your high horse and stop acting like you have the higher ground . Anything I have claimed I have backed it up with reasonable evidence . At the end of the day I accept it to be true . If you are so interested in human evolution then please accept the invitation I have sent you by pm to join the live stream on Friday .

In response to the backbone and ribs , I showed you two views on it . The reason why you think the lingustical view of the verse is baseless is due to your rejection of Adam and eve. The second link showed you how you misunderstood the Quran . It's 3 in the morning and I'm starting to lose track of everything now .

[Methuselah]

Demanded ? Again no evidence to back up your countless claims . It was a treaty to form an alliance against the pagan Arabs who were attacking the Muslims . Lol. You have shown your intellectual dishonesty. Bani qurayda were not being "demanded " to covert to Islam when that's not even the issue !!

Are you trying to use all of these revenge stories including this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qaynuqa as some sort of excuse to conquer and spread Islam violently? Tell us unjustified violence from Mohammed's side never happened. Say it. Say everything is always another person's fault.

[Nassbean]

Intellectual ? On what grounds are you making that claim ? Get off your high horse and stop acting like you have the higher ground . Anything I have claimed I have backed it up with reasonable evidence . At the end of the day I accept it to be true . If you are so interested in human evolution then please accept the invitation I have sent you by pm to join the live stream on Friday .

In response to the backbone and ribs , I showed you two views on it . The reason why you think the lingustical view of the verse is baseless is due to your rejection of Adam and eve. The second link showed you how you misunderstood the Quran . It's 3 in the morning and I'm starting to lose track of everything now .

You seem to know what you're talking about so what's your opinion on this :

"The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment." (24:2)

"And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses - lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient," (24:4)

here the whole surah so you have the whole context : https://quran.com/24

[Avicenna]

Are you trying to use all of these revenge stories including this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qaynuqa as some sort of excuse to conquer and spread Islam violently? Tell us unjustified violence from Mohammed's side never happened. Say it. Say everything is always another person's fault.

You have been intellectually defeated . Adiós .

[Synapsid]

Intellectual ? On what grounds are you making that claim ? Get off your high horse and stop acting like you have the higher ground . Anything I have claimed I have backed it up with reasonable evidence . At the end of the day I accept it to be true . If you are so interested in human evolution then please accept the invitation I have sent you by pm to join the live stream on Friday .

In response to the backbone and ribs , I showed you two views on it . The reason why you think the lingustical view of the verse is baseless is due to your rejection of Adam and eve. The second link showed you how you misunderstood the Quran . It's 3 in the morning and I'm starting to lose track of everything now .

I don't want to get banned by Loki, so I will stop. But if you believe that dead Iron age Semitic men had the last ultimate knowledge of a supposed Super Deity, well then I hope you are happy.

[Methuselah]

You have been intellectually defeated . Adiós .

By a person who worships a pedophile as his prophet?

[Avicenna]

You seem to know what you're talking about so what's your opinion on this :

"The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment." (24:2)

"And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses - lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient," (24:4)

here the whole surah so you have the whole context : https://quran.com/24

Firstly , under the Islamic law you need to provide four witnesses who testify to seeing actual penetration occuring . Basically having sex in public .

The severe punishment is there to act as a deterrent .

It also protects the chastity of a women and protecting a women's honour by deterring any slander to her . It means you can't even call a women a whore without producing 4 witnesses in court. If you can't, then the slanderer / accuser will get the punishment .

[Avicenna]

By a person who worships a pedophile as his prophet?

Yawn yawn . You have shown your intellectual dishonesty mate .

[Avicenna]

I don't want to get banned by Loki, so I will stop. But if you believe that dead Iron age Semitic men had the last ultimate knowledge of a supposed Super Deity, well then I hope you are happy.

Yeah I think 6 pages is enough for today lol .

[Marmara]

Well, a good point that Muslim countries can also go against their own religion. But in general Muslims feel like it's a right thing to do, to punish unbelievers. It seems so, at least. Some Finnish Muslims were asked about this years ago, and they said that yes, gays deserve stoning in the Middle East. Similar stuff would obviously apply to unbelievers.

Hmm. USA allows people to have different views, no? But let's be honest. Mohammed butchered people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

Who are these Finnish muslims? I think Finnish Tatars think differently.

[Nassbean]

Firstly , under the Islamic law you need to provide four witnesses who testify to seeing actual penetration occuring . Basically having sex in public .

The severe punishment is there to act as a deterrent .

It also protects the chastity of a women and protecting a women's honour by deterring any slander to her . It means you can't even call a women a whore without producing 4 witnesses in court. If you can't, then the slanderer / accuser will get the punishment .

I think it goes beyond all of this : Why the creator of such a vast and complex universe would care about such trivial details ? I mean why being hostile towards little insignificant humans who made love before marriage ?

[Methuselah]

Who are these Finnish muslims? I think Finnish Tatars think differently.

Finnish Tatars are indeed more liberal.

Some takes from that evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvyqgLLAsHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoamw7oCRtY

[Avicenna]

Who are these Finnish muslims? I think Finnish Tatars think differently.

Basless claims stated by an intellectual dishonest member. Take his word as a grain of salt .

[Avicenna]

I think it goes beyond all of this : Why the creator of such a vast and complex universe would care about such trivial details ? I mean why being hostile towards little insignificant humans who made love before marriage ?

Because the creator knows man better than he knows himself . He knows what is best for man. The law he legislates is there to protect the individual from the society and the society from the individual . Again, the punishment is set as a deterrent . It encourages young people to get married quickly to prevent that even occuring . Society thrives better when the unit of a family is intact. You seriously cannot be arguing against that .

It's vast and complex from your perspective . For the creator it's nothing . But that doesn't mean anything if you don't accept that the creator exists in the first place

[Methuselah]

Yawn yawn . You have shown your intellectual dishonesty mate .

I use harsh words for people who deserve harsh words. Regardless of what the culture was, a prophet laying with a 6-12 year old girl doesn't sound like a holy prophet.

Back to the topic of murdering the whole Jewish tribe and topics related to this. I asked you many times what do you think about apostasy laws, you never gave a proper answer, instead posted some dumb looking links. Also you said that it's not about you it's about Islam. In Islam, unbelievers tend to be bullied as you know. I don't think you have any sympathy for them. Muslims don't care about freedom of religion. This is the reason these countries are so undeveloped. Don't blame me mate or USA for all the shit Muslim countries are experiencing, from poverty to stoning women. Tyrannies do not deserve to be healthy, wealthy and developed. Intellectual dishonesty he said. Mohammed flying over Jerusalem and shit.

[Avicenna]

I use harsh words for people who deserve harsh words. Regardless of what the culture was, a prophet laying with a 6-12 year old girl doesn't sound like a holy prophet.

Back to the topic of murdering the whole Jewish tribe and topics related to this. I asked you many times what do you think about apostasy laws, you never gave a proper answer, instead posted some dumb looking links. Also you said that it's not about you it's about Islam. In Islam, unbelievers tend to be bullied as you know. I don't think you have any sympathy for them. Muslims don't care about freedom of religion. This is the reason these countries are so undeveloped. Don't blame me mate or USA for all the shit Muslim countries are experiencing, from poverty to stoning women. Tyrannies do not deserve to be healthy, wealthy and developed. Intellectual dishonesty he said. Mohammed flying over Jerusalem and shit.

Making these claims as a Christian . The pure irony .

This forum is a bit like a dictatorship . I won't elaborate on what I've said for obvious reasons but I'll be happy to pm you .

[Methuselah]

Making these claims as a Christian . The pure irony .

Tell me where i went wrong? Didn't Mohammed sleep with a little girl? Don't Muslims claim that Mohammed was flying over Jerusalem, no?

EDIT: I do agree that Christians believe in supernatural things too. But we don't believe in violence or sexual immorality. There is a huge difference between what Jesus did and what Mohammed did.

[Nassbean]

Because the creator knows man better than he knows himself . He knows what is best for man. The law he legislates is there to protect the individual from the society and the society from the individual . Again, the punishment is set as a deterrent . It encourages young people to get married quickly to prevent that even occuring . Society thrives better when the unit of a family is intact. You seriously cannot be arguing against that .

That's kind of subjective because a wedding is a social construct it has no concrete value it's just a way for your relatives to recognize your union but making love before it or after it won't change anything it's been millenias that men are doing this on a daily basis if it was really that bad for men we would have noticed it ...anyway I can't help thinking that it's simply the reflection of a medieval bedouin/arab mentality (in this islamic context).

[Synapsid]

That's kind of subjective because a wedding is a social construct it has no concrete value it's just a way for your relatives to recognize your union but making love before it or after it won't change anything it's been millenias that men are doing this on a daily basis if it was really that bad for men we would have noticed it ...anyway I can't help thinking that it's simply the reflection of a medieval bedouin/arab mentality (in this islamic context).

Its was for paternity reasons, in an age before contraception and Paternity testing. It was to make sure your child is your child, not someone elses. So they made strict codes for gender interation, esp. in terms of limiting female mobility and sexuality.

[Marmara]

Because the creator knows man better than he knows himself . He knows what is best for man. The law he legislates is there to protect the individual from the society and the society from the individual . Again, the punishment is set as a deterrent . It encourages young people to get married quickly to prevent that even occuring . Society thrives better when the unit of a family is intact. You seriously cannot be arguing against that .

It's vast and complex from your perspective . For the creator it's nothing . But that doesn't mean anything if you don't accept that the creator exists in the first place

Creator supposed to know what is best for man, but Islam doesn't, it means Islam isn't the word of God.

Islamic countries are shit soley due to Islamic conservatism.

[Marmara]

Finnish Tatars are indeed more liberal.

Some takes from that evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvyqgLLAsHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoamw7oCRtY

I don't speak Finnish, but these people must be Wahhabi hardliners. Regular muslims do not approve violent actions contrary to popular belief.

[Avicenna]

Tell me where i went wrong? Didn't Mohammed sleep with a little girl? Don't Muslims claim that Mohammed was flying over Jerusalem, no?

Okay firstly , lets define what a "little girl " is .

United Kingdom. In 1275, the age of consent in England was set at 12 (Westminster 1 statute), the first time an age of consent had been set in England. However, in 1875 the Offence Against the Persons Act raised it to 13 in Great Britain and Ireland. The Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885 raised it to 16.

In the UK up until 100 years ago the age of consent was 12 . Secondly , the age of Aisha is disputed . Some say she was married at 6 and consumated at 9 , others say she was 12 or 13 and others even say she was 18.

In Islam , there is no age of consent for marriage . You know why ? Every individual is different . A girl in Africa at age of 12 is mentally matured compared to a 18 year old living in the west . How can you expect the age of consent to cross 1400 years when it can't even cross the sea?! According to the Saudi law , a man having sex with a 16 year old is a peado due to the age of consent being 18. In Portugal the age of consent is 14!

What does islam say ? The girl has to be mentally and physically mature . The girl has a right to accept or reject give marriage . The parents, society and such need to accept it too . That's a legislation that can be applied to everyone through all ages .

Now whats your issue with Aisha ? Why are you so concerned for her ? She accepted the marriage and so did her parents . If Muhammed pbuh was a paedophile, why wait 3 years to consumate the marriage ? Does it make sense to wait 3 years ? Do you even know who aisha was ? She is one of the most important narrator of hadith in Islam as well loving the prophet very dearly . Doesn't sound like a "little girl " forced into marriage to me .

Given that you are Christian , do you know how old Mary the mother of Jesus was ? I can bring up stories in the old testament that will suprise you . In addition, Muhammed pbuh travelled to Jerusalem on a buraq . Then from there he ascended to the heavens .

[Avicenna]

Creator supposed to know what is best for man, but Islam doesn't, it means Islam isn't the word of God.

Islamic countries are shit soley due to Islamic conservatism.

I'm arguing for Islam not islamic countries so please don't mention that . Is Britain a Christian state ?

[Methuselah]

I don't speak Finnish, but these people must be Wahhabi hardliners. Regular muslims do not approve violent actions contrary to popular belief.

That younger fella in the video, Abbas Bahmanpour, is an imam of the Mellunmäki mosque. A Shia Muslim it seems. https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/vandals_deface_helsinki_mosque/10692791

I have to say that i can't speak for all Muslims of course. All people go by stereotypes here. But from what i have heard and seen, Muslims, if serious at all, tend to have quite anti Western takes on life. Turks and Tatars might be different. They are more "liberal" it seems.

[Avicenna]

That's kind of subjective because a wedding is a social construct it has no concrete value it's just a way for your relatives to recognize your union but making love before it or after it won't change anything it's been millenias that men are doing this on a daily basis if it was really that bad for men we would have noticed it ...anyway I can't help thinking that it's simply the reflection of a medieval bedouin/arab mentality (in this islamic context).

Wedding ? Are you forgetting the nikkah? Which is a marriage contract ? Wedding is a social construct created by cultures celebrating the marriage contract . I suggest you find out what the nikkah involves man .

[Marmara]

I'm arguing for Islam not islamic countries so please don't mention that . Is Britain a Christian state ?

Yes, Britain is a Christian state.

Islam is the direct reason of the downfall of Islamic countries.

[Methuselah]

Okay firstly , lets define what a "little girl " is .

United Kingdom. In 1275, the age of consent in England was set at 12 (Westminster 1 statute), the first time an age of consent had been set in England. However, in 1875 the Offence Against the Persons Act raised it to 13 in Great Britain and Ireland. The Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885 raised it to 16.

In the UK up until 100 years ago the age of consent was 12 . Secondly , the age of Aisha is disputed . Some say she was married at 6 and consumated at 9 , others say she was 12 or 13 and others even say she was 18.

In Islam , there is no age of consent for marriage . You know why ? Every individual is different . A girl in Africa at age of 12 is mentally matured compared to a 18 year old living in the west . How can you expect the age of consent to cross 1400 years when it can't even cross the sea?! According to the Saudi law , a man having sex with a 16 year old is a peado due to the age of consent being 18. In Portugal the age of consent is 14!

What does islam say ? The girl has to be mentally and physically mature . The girl has a right to accept or reject give marriage . The parents, society and such need to accept it too . That's a legislation that can be applied to everyone through all ages .

Now whats your issue with Aisha ? Why are you so concerned for her ? She accepted the marriage and so did her parents . If Muhammed pbuh was a paedophile, why wait 3 years to consumate the marriage ? Does it make sense to wait 3 years ? Do you even know who aisha was ? She is one of the most important narrator of hadith in Islam as well loving the prophet very dearly . Doesn't sound like a "little girl " forced into marriage to me .

Given that you are Christian , do you know how old Mary the mother of Jesus was ? I can bring up stories in the old testament that will suprise you . In addition, Muhammed pbuh travelled to Jerusalem on a buraq . Then from there he ascended to the heavens .

Yes, a little girl was defined in a different way back then. Still, a holy man sent by God could have been a little bit more reserved sexually, don't you think so?

What is a Buraq? Some spiritual being? Can spiritual travel be considered as a real travel? He probably was astral projecting or something.

You still haven't answered me whether it's right to punish people of different faith. I never heard a proper answer. You kept on sending links. Is it right or wrong to punish non Muslim? Give me an answer please. Not links. And regardless of what you say i think you should have a right to say it. Unless you clearly start threatening people.

[Avicenna]

Yes, Britain is a Christian state.

Islam is the direct reason of the downfall of Islamic countries.

And yet between 7th and 17th century Islam was the thriving epicentre of civilization. You are talking like a true ataturk follower so don't mind me . Don't blame your countries downfall on Islam rather on your corrupt leaders who used the banner of Islam for their own gain .

[Nassbean]

Wedding ? Are you forgetting the nikkah? Which is a marriage contract ? Wedding is a social construct created by cultures celebrating the marriage contract . I suggest you find out what the nikkah involves man .

nikkah or not it doesn't contradict what I said what's your point ? It's not a coincidence if there is at least one witness at any nikkah ...

[Synapsid]

Yes, Britain is a Christian state.

Islam is the direct reason of the downfall of Islamic countries.

Abrahamic monothiesm in it true form promotes Ultra conservatism, inhibition of human creativity to maintain orthodoxy (anti innovation) and retrograde Arab and Semitic costumes that is intrinsic to the religion. Its a very reactionary belief system. This true for Othodox Judaism and old school chritanity sects as much it is for Islam

[Marmara]

That younger fella in the video, Abbas Bahmanpour, is an imam of the Mellunmäki mosque. A Shia Muslim it seems. https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/vandals_deface_helsinki_mosque/10692791

I have to say that i can't speak for all Muslims of course. All people go by stereotypes here. But from what i have heard and seen, Muslims, if serious at all, tend to have quite anti Western takes on life. Turks and Tatars might be different. They are more "liberal" it seems.

Anti-westernism is true and it also includes Turks, but of course it depends on what you mean by anti-westernism. Anti-westernism among Muslims is against Western governments, not ordinary citizens, and the reason is not a religiously taught hatred, but mostly history. Starting from Western colonization to founding of Israel, the support it receives from West and the Western (especially American) interventionism in the muslim lands are the real reasons, you don't see muslims hating East Asians.

[catgeorge]

Do you think Jews took influenced from Greeks and Zoroastrians when dealing with the problem of evil and Satan? What's your theory on this, may i ask?

Satan is just a name given - what it represents is what matters. For example no scientist has been able to determine why each human can think for itself (I am getting to my point), or have you ever felt conflicted by doing something and felt two sides are pulling you in either direction?

The soul has been written in depth by the ancient Greeks. CHristianity is able to explain it in better detail despite ancient Greeks have the more 'dazzling' literature

[Nassbean]

Anti-westernism is true and it also includes Turks, but of course it depends on what you mean by anti-westernism. Anti-westernism among Muslims is against Western governments, not ordinary citizens, and the reason is not a religiously taught hatred, but mostly history. Starting from Western colonization to founding of Israel, the support it receives from West and the Western (especially American) interventionism in the muslim lands are the real reasons, you don't see muslims hating East Asians.

They also tend to be way more conservative that the usual european they view them as depraved. Islam is clearly not compatible with the modern values of the West sooner or later it will have dramatic consequences...

[Avicenna]

Yes, a little girl was defined in a different way back then. Still, a holy man sent by God could have been a little bit more reserved sexually, don't you think so?

What is a Buraq? Some spiritual being? Can spiritual travel be considered as a real travel? He probably was astral projecting or something.

You still haven't answered me whether it's right to punish people of different faith. I never heard a proper answer. You kept on sending links. Is it right or wrong to punish non Muslim? Give me an answer please. Not links.

Come on man . Lets be reasonable . You can't compare your subjective opinion in the 21st century to 7th century society . If the Quran had stated that you can marry a 6 year old then you have a point . But it doesn't say that . It gives you a criteria and condition to meet . If your claim is that prophet Muhammed pbuh was a paedo then why didnt this issue become a problem up until as recently as mid 20th century ? Why didn't he marry more 6 year olds? Why were all of his wives widowers? His first wife was his senior too .

The events of isra and miraaj is a miracle in itself . Muslims have no issue with accepting that , just as you , a Christian accept that Moses parted the sea , jesus cured the leper and so forth . We accept it to be true because its the direct proposition of accepting the Quran is the word of God . Simple

In regards to punishment, no I don't . There is no compulsion in religoun . I gave you the Islamic opinion with sources from Quran and hadith which you have quickly dismissed . I don't know man , sounds like your not open to learning .

[Synapsid]

They also tend to be way more conservative that the usual european they view them as depraved. Islam is clearly not compatible with the modern values of the West sooner or later it will have dramatic consequences...

Muslim communities self segregate from UK socitety and poorly integrated while East Asians do well and are liked here. Yes modernity and islamic will clash, and there will be tear sadly

[Avicenna]

nikkah or not it doesn't contradict what I said what's your point ? It's not a coincidence if there is at least one witness at any nikkah ...

What is a marriage contract under the shariah ?

[Marmara]

And yet between 7th and 17th century Islam was the thriving epicentre of civilization. You are talking like a true ataturk follower so don't mind me . Don't blame your countries downfall on Islam rather on your corrupt leaders who used the banner of Islam for their own gain .

How can you tell apart between an islamic Flag-Bearer and a fraud? It's not true, at least Erdoğan is definetly not a fraud, he is a true islamist.

Between those centuries everyone was backward. A regular muslim back then was even more backward than a regular muslim compared to today. I mean they widely practiced slavery, perhaps we should return to it, that's the key of success?

[Nassbean]

What is a marriage contract under the shariah ?

I don't understand your question be explicit pls ( "groom and bride agree to become husband and wife. Marriage in Islam at minimum requires the presence of an officiator, the bride and groom, and two witnesses. A gift called ‘Mahr’ is given from the husband to the wife" ) where does it contradict what I said ?

[Avicenna]

How can you tell apart between an islamic Flag-Bearer and a fraud? It's not true, at least Erdoğan is definetly not a fraud, he is a true islamist.

Between those centuries everyone was backward. A regular muslim back then was even more backward than a regular muslim compared to today. I mean they widely practiced slavery, perhaps we should return to it, that's the key of success?

Ignorance really is bliss . Smh .

Just search the golden age of Islam .

[Synapsid]

How can you tell apart between an islamic Flag-Bearer and a fraud? It's not true, at least Erdoğan is definetly not a fraud, he is a true islamist.

Between those centuries everyone was backward. A regular muslim back then was even more backward than a regular muslim compared to today. I mean they widely practiced slavery, perhaps we should return to it, that's the key of success?

The elite were Mutazillah, distict from mainstream Sunni schools of thought. Interestly when Al Ghazali risalas/books were wide spread through out the greater MENA, the intellectual decline was noticeble

[Avicenna]

I don't understand your question be explicit pls ( "groom and bride agree to become husband and wife. Marriage in Islam at minimum requires the presence of an officiator, the bride and groom, and two witnesses. A gift called ‘Mahr’ is given from the husband to the wife" ) where does it contradict what I said ?

Your whole point was as to how this process is beneficial to the woman, right ?

Would you go through the process of meeting the girls father, family , nikkah , pay her dowry and such to only sleep with her ? Ofcourse you wouldn't . Marriage is there to protect both parties but mainly women .

[Adamm]

I don't understand your question be explicit pls ( "groom and bride agree to become husband and wife. Marriage in Islam at minimum requires the presence of an officiator, the bride and groom, and two witnesses. A gift called ‘Mahr’ is given from the husband to the wife" ) where does it contradict what I said ?

Do you really think fornication before marriage is a good thing? Marriage is not only a social construct on a material level, it's binding humans on a metaphysical level so it has both a material purpose and a metaphysical purpose. As for the material purpose, marriage creates communities and binds people together, it creates the basic for when a baby is born in order for the baby to get the care it needs for it to grow. If everyone was free to fornicate you'll get many babys born without families because simple minded fornicators are not going to take responsibility for it. Children need to be born in households and not be a result of simple hedonism. All civilizations have institued the concept of marriage, it's a universal and perennial truth in which every tradition on this planet sees its positive aspects. Because in the modern day we've adapted the concept and ideology of hedonism upon steroids men and women are fornicating like wild animals, what do we get in response? Millions of babies getting killed on yearly basis (abortion), spread of diseases and the list is long.

[Nassbean]

Your whole point was as to how this process is beneficial to the woman, right ?

Would you go through the process of meeting the girls father, family , nikkah , pay her dowry and such to only sleep with her ? Ofcourse you wouldn't . Marriage is there to protect both parties but mainly women .

that wasn't my point you misunderstood : my point was to show that dating before marriage or after doesn't matter because the concept of wedding itself highly varied throughout History and has no concrete value except in its social context so why would a supreme creator be so worried about it (even if he knows man better than us it's still doesn't make sense) He's extremely clever something that we can't even totally apprehend but he still cares about the insignificant sexual relations of little humans lost in a huge universe ?

[Marmara]

Ignorance really is bliss . Smh .

Just search the golden age of Islam .

Is this the only answer you could give?

İbn Khaldun was the first man to suggest evolution from Monkeys in Africa.

Avicenna and Al-Farabi were considered infidels later on.

Omar Khayyam is considered an infidel due to his poems, and pilgrims would back then visit his tomb only to spit on it.

[Synapsid]

Delete

[Nassbean]

Do you really think fornication before marriage is a good thing? Marriage is not only a social construct on a material level, it's binding humans on a metaphysical level so it has both a material purpose and a metaphysical purpose. As for the material purpose, marriage creates communities and binds people together, it creates the basic for when a baby is born in order for the baby to get the care it needs for it to grow. If everyone was free to fornicate you'll get many babys born without families because simple minded fornicators are not going to take responsibility for it. Children need to be born in households and not be a result of simple hedonism. All civilizations have institued the concept of marriage, it's a universal and perennial truth in which every tradition on this planet sees its positive aspects. Because in the modern day we've adapted the concept and ideology of hedonism upon steroids men and women are fornicating like wild animals, what do we get in response? Millions of babies getting killed on yearly basis (abortion), spread of diseases and the list is long.

I've never said it's a good thing even though the concept of fornication itself has no sense it's purely subjective you talk about it as if two humans weren't technically able to raise a child without marriage. I'm not against marriage or sex after it I'm just questioning some concepts that people with no critical mind take for granted but that was only one aspect ..there are many other questionable aspects which I do not want to talk here for obvious reasons.

[Dr_Maul]

He claims to be an Iranian from Tehran, I've never seen an Iranian look like that...

I don't think he is very atypical, maybe a bit darker only. He is from the capital so other admixture is more common

[Khamzat]

Muslims aré retard, ex muslims aré brilliant.
but why? Spain is a muslim country brother.

[Dr_Maul]

Is this the only answer you could give?

İbn Khaldun was the first man to suggest evolution from Monkeys in Africa.

Avicenna and Al-Farabi were considered infidels later on.

Omar Khayyam is considered an infidel due to his poems, and pilgrims would back then visit his tomb only to spit on it.

Except that their accomplishments were still a side effect of Islam tho, they were literally financed by caliphs. Yes, when Al Ghazali suggests that all science and stuff is a fraud and people listened to him everything went to shit, but it’s not like the previous scientific accomplishments no longer exist lmfao

[Babak]

I'm arguing for Islam not islamic countries so please don't mention that . Is Britain a Christian state ?

Something ive noticed among afghan pashtuns(At least the ones here) is that they are extremely religious out of every ethnic group and tend to relate to arabs. Is that something common for pashtuns?

[Synapsid]

Something ive noticed among afghan pashtuns(At least the ones here) is that they are extremely religious out of every ethnic group and tend to relate to arabs. Is that something common for pashtuns?
Ultra tribal conservatism mixes well with some religions. That place is a complete shithole. Expect it join modernity in 3000 AD or 2900 AD if we are lucky.

[Babak]

[]


Ultra tribal conservatism mixes well with some religions. That place is a complete shithole. Expect it join modernity in 3000 AD or 2900 AD if we are lucky.

Aah ok, makes sense

[Loki]

You guys need to stop pushing this Christianity vs Islam narrative. Both can co exist side by side.

This is not about politics. It's about saving your soul from eternal hellfire. There's no point in being politically correct or "sensitive" towards Islam, and in the end people go to hell because they don't have Jesus. It's time to call a spade a spade... we all need Jesus. I would not be helping a Muslim if I told him it's okay to remain a Muslim... that would be very selfish of me.

[Marmara]

This is not about politics. It's about saving your soul from eternal hellfire. There's no point in being politically correct or "sensitive" towards Islam, and in the end people go to hell because they don't have Jesus. It's time to call a spade a spade... we all need Jesus. I would not be helping a Muslim if I told him it's okay to remain a Muslim... that would be very selfish of me.

How do you know Christians are right? Maybe Muslims are right, maybe both are wrong.

[Blondie]

How do you know Christians are right? Maybe Muslims are right, maybe both are wrong.

Islam cannot be right for sure, that's a death cult.

[catgeorge]

How do you know Christians are right? Maybe Muslims are right, maybe both are wrong.

Do you see yourself above and smarter than Jesus Christ?

No one said anything about right or wrong but the soul does exist - you don't even think for yourself your soul does. Who does the soul belong to?

The biggest lost causes are the mid educated. This is what happens when everyone has an education but not a very good one.

[Marmara]

Islam cannot be right for sure, that's a death cult.

So was Christianity before Humanist thinking emerged.


Do you see yourself above and smarter than Jesus Christ?

No one said anything about right or wrong but the soul does exist - you don't even think for yourself your soul does. Who does the soul belong to?

The biggest lost causes are the mid educated. This is what happens when everyone has an education but not a very good one.

I see myself smarter than you.

[catgeorge]

So was Christianity before Humanist thinking emerged.



I see myself smarter than you.

I am glad you convinced yourself

[Loki]

How do you know Christians are right? Maybe Muslims are right, maybe both are wrong.

I know for a fact Christianity is true, because I have personally experienced God, and he changed my life. I have also seen him doing miracles.

[Synapsid]

Damn I never received so many thumbs down in my time here until this thread.

[Marmara]

Didn't know this forum had so many Muslims.

https://i.imgur.com/JWdkNgy.jpg

Prophecy is being fulfilled.

[Arsen_]

Well, not everything is bad in Islam. For example I like the idea of Muslim Paradise - a super-elite brothel where you get for free unlimited delivery of young virgin girls and finest wines! :lol:

[Altaison]

I use harsh words for people who deserve harsh words. Regardless of what the culture was, a prophet laying with a 6-12 year old girl doesn't sound like a holy prophet.

Back to the topic of murdering the whole Jewish tribe and topics related to this. I asked you many times what do you think about apostasy laws, you never gave a proper answer, instead posted some dumb looking links. Also you said that it's not about you it's about Islam. In Islam, unbelievers tend to be bullied as you know. I don't think you have any sympathy for them. Muslims don't care about freedom of religion. This is the reason these countries are so undeveloped. Don't blame me mate or USA for all the shit Muslim countries are experiencing, from poverty to stoning women. Tyrannies do not deserve to be healthy, wealthy and developed. Intellectual dishonesty he said. Mohammed flying over Jerusalem and shit.

Well, I remember there are some verses in Talmud making 9 yo goyim girls halal for Jews. What do you think about your holly book?

[MMurt7]

If you left Islam the next step must be at least Deism,not Christianity!

[Avicenna]

Ultra tribal conservatism mixes well with some religions. That place is a complete shithole. Expect it join modernity in 3000 AD or 2900 AD if we are lucky.

That's absurd. I've never been to Afghanistan so your point is null . Pashtuns are the least religous people in Afghanistan , they are tribalist who worship their country most of the time . Using my ethnicity is a big low . I've been educated in the west and know many English lads and gals who have accepted Islam .

[Oghuz]

Man is a Murtade Fitri (born muslim but apostate by choice) by Islamic law.

[Kyp]

I personally would never trust what a Persian says when it comes to Religion. They just use religion (Shia Islam) and in this case Christianity for political, personal or societal gain!

[Kamal900]

I personally would never trust what a Persian says when it comes to Religion. They just use religion (Shia Islam) and in this case Christianity for political, personal or societal gain!

There are Persians in the west who would use the Aryan identity to garner acceptance from Whites. Obviously not all of the Iranian diaspora are like that, but some do that and so on though. I mean, StonyArabia or Nabatea, who is half Iraqi Bedouin half Circassian, was bullied heavily by an Iranian because of his ethnicity till a Somali helped him out against the bully. There are people who are willing to use religion to garner acceptance from the west which is far from genuine really.

[Oghuz]

There are Persians in the west who would use the Aryan identity to garner acceptance from Whites. Obviously not all of the Iranian diaspora are like that, but some do that and so on though. I mean, StonyArabia or Nabatea, who is half Iraqi Bedouin half Circassian, was bullied heavily by an Iranian because of his ethnicity till a Somali helped him out against the bully. There are people who are willing to use religion to garner acceptance from the west which is far from genuine really.

Not all but a certain small segment of Iranians who migrated out during or around revolution are bunch of identity less weirdos and ethnic cucks (mostly settled in US) who spend their days and nights trying to prove how they are not muslim middle eastern Iranians as they were born in Tabriz, Tehran or Esfahan in reality.

Luckily they are a small isolated community.

[Kyp]

Not all but a certain small segment of Iranians who migrated out during or around revolution are bunch of identity less weirdos and ethnic cucks (mostly settled in US) who spend their days and nights trying to prove how they are not muslim middle eastern Iranians as they were born in Tabriz, Tehran or Esfahan in reality.

Luckily they are a small isolated community.

It's not a myth that large amount of Iranian population are not very religious people. That's why it's hard for me to believe in these devout Iranian christians when I rarely see a devout Iranian muslim.
The types what Toppo is mentioning exist in all MENA groups including Turkey and India.

[Kamal900]

Not all but a certain small segment of Iranians who migrated out during or around revolution are bunch of identity less weirdos and ethnic cucks (mostly settled in US) who spend their days and nights trying to prove how they are not muslim middle eastern Iranians as they were born in Tabriz, Tehran or Esfahan in reality.

Luckily they are a small isolated community.

I know. Just saying, that's all.

[Oghuz]

Actually, more and more Iranians(Specifically persians) are turning away from Islam and converting to either zoroastrianism, christianity, or atheism. Islam is becoming more reserved for Azeris, Kurds, and khorasanis.

I don't agree with the conversion but what you said is partially true in some way. I find Central Persians to be more liberal on average compared to Azeris, Khorasanis and Lur, Kurds (Tribals). IMO the most fanatic kind of iranian muslims are Azeris, Khorasanis and then Khuzis.

[Avicenna]

Not all but a certain small segment of Iranians who migrated out during or around revolution are bunch of identity less weirdos and ethnic cucks (mostly settled in US) who spend their days and nights trying to prove how they are not muslim middle eastern Iranians as they were born in Tabriz, Tehran or Esfahan in reality.

Luckily they are a small isolated community.

The accuracy of this comment lol. Glad an Iranian has recognised this . Majority of Iranians in the west is what you have described .

[Kyp]

I don't agree with the conversion but what you said is partially true in some way. I find Central Persians to be more liberal on average compared to Azeris, Khorasanis and Lur, Kurds (Tribals). IMO the most fanatic kind of iranian muslims are Azeris, Khorasanis and then Khuzis.

Common myth because of Azeri low class merchants in Tehran.

[Oghuz]

It's not a myth that large amount of Iranian population are not very religious people. The types what Toppo is mentioning exist in all MENA groups including Turkey and India.

Iranian dissidents are far more fanatic weirdo cucks then any other dissident group in west in my own experience. Few months ago Iraqi government was complaining that bunch of Iranian run away weirdos were landing in Baghdad to protest outside Iranian embassy. These MEK style "Aryans" and "Per-saauns" people would go to any length literally.

[Kyp]

Iranian dissidents are far more fanatic weirdo cucks then any other dissident group in west in my own experience. Few months ago Iraqi government was complaining that bunch of Iranian run away weirdos were landing in Baghdad to protest outside Iranian embassy. These MEK style "Aryans" and "Per-saauns" people would go to any length literally.

agree, don't like them either.

[Ylla]

Iranian dissidents are far more fanatic weirdo cucks then any other dissident group in west in my own experience. Few months ago Iraqi government was complaining that bunch of Iranian run away weirdos were landing in Baghdad to protest outside Iranian embassy. These MEK style "Aryans" and "Per-saauns" people would go to any length literally.

I don't think the man can be described as a cuck or whatever, it's his own personal religious journey with Christ you have no right to judge his faith. I respect people like him who use their own mind.

The term 'cuck' (I don't like it but whatever🤦🏻 ) is more fitting to someone who has their thoughts and actions controlled by other people and afraid to follow the truth.

[Crn Volk]

The touching story of the life of Iranian ex-Muslim Mohamad Faridi:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckDwCuTFUGg

Excellent. There should be more of this

[Oghuz]

Common myth because of Azeri low class merchants in Tehran.

Bulk of clerics with surnames like like Chamloo, Zanjani, Tabrizi, Ardabili, Safavi are low class azeri merchants to you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Iranian_Azerbaijani_grand_ayatollahs_and_ clerics

[Oghuz]

I don't think the man can be described as a cuck or whatever, it's his own personal religious journey with Christ you have no right to judge his faith. I respect people like him who use their own mind.

I was not referring to religion. I was referring to Iranian dissident's usual behavior of how they do their best to avoid being called Iranians in west.

Being a liberal human being, I feel everyone is at liberty to choose what they want to choose.

[Kyp]

Bulk of clerics with surnames like like Chamloo, Zanjani, Tabrizi, Ardabili, Safavi are low class azeri merchants to you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Iranian_Azerbaijani_grand_ayatollahs_and_ clerics

Azeris are 20% of the population with a higher dark figure. Can you provide me with a statistic that shows Azeris are overrepresented?

[Avicenna]

I don't think the man can be described as a cuck or whatever, it's his own personal religious journey with Christ you have no right to judge his faith. I respect people like him who use their own mind.
Would you stay consistent and say that to someone who is a Muslim ?

[Avicenna]

I don't think the man can be described as a cuck or whatever, it's his own personal religious journey with Christ you have no right to judge his faith. I respect people like him who use their own mind.
Would you stay consistent and say that to someone who is a Muslim ?

[Avicenna]

Something ive noticed among afghan pashtuns(At least the ones here) is that they are extremely religious out of every ethnic group and tend to relate to arabs. Is that something common for pashtuns?

Absolutely not . I don't consider myself pashtun nor do I have any experience of pashtuns wanting to relate themselves with Arabs . In fact most afghans dislike Arabs . Pashtuns are quite irreligious most of the times .

[Oghuz]

Azeris are 20% of the population with a higher dark figure. Can you provide me with a statistic that shows Azeris are overrepresented?

One can guess very easily by checking the abandoned surnames of most clerics in Iran. I would go on and even claim that proper % of Qomi and Mashhadi mullahs who just started calling themselves Sayyids (descendants of Prophet Muhammad Pbuh) actually hail from NW and NE and like many elite tribal families who settled in big cities in center, have left using their surnames in favor of surname evolved from origin of place. Khamenei is a massive example, so is Khalkhali there are countless others. Anyone with a proper idea of Iranian society and politics would tell you the same and it makes sense as well considering the fact that where did the kizilbas shia fanatic culture came from and started by whom.

[Oghuz]

The accuracy of this comment lol. Glad an Iranian has recognised this . Majority of Iranians in the west is what you have described .

Its very true brother. Most of these people have no shame. One of the biggest dissident Iranian troll living in US was recently saying on twitter that virus related deaths in Iran are a blessing as it would put Iranian government in a weaker position.

[Kyp]

Its very true brother. Most of these people have no shame. One of the biggest dissident Iranian troll living in US was recently saying on twitter that virus related deaths in Iran are a blessing as it would put Iranian government in a weaker position.



In metropolitan cities with mixed ethnic composition, such as Tehran, Azeris are thought to be more intense in their expression of religious ritual than their Persian counterparts.[162] However, Azeris are less inclined to Islamism. This is evident by the fact that just before revolution Azeris followed either Mohammad Kazem Shariatmadari or Kho'i, both traditionalist jurists. In contrast, Persians followed more radical Ruhollah Khomeini

I won't further derail this thread, if you want to respond to this quote please do in PM.

[Avicenna]

I don't think the man can be described as a cuck or whatever, it's his own personal religious journey with Christ you have no right to judge his faith. I respect people like him who use their own mind.

The term 'cuck' (I don't like it but whatever🤦🏻 ) is more fitting to someone who has their thoughts and actions controlled by other people and afraid to follow the truth.

But what you consider the truth might be different to someone elses truth .

[Seya]

following God's word only because you're afraid of him or because you're expecting a reward in your afterlife doesn't make you a good person.
i don't trust religious people. they're fake most of the time and extremely arrogant - worst of the sins by christian law

[KrashNick]

People who convert usually tend to be the worst kind of people , no matter what religion they did belong before. They become more radical .

[Oghuz]

I won't further derail this thread, if you want to respond to this quote please do in PM.

Explain to me why should we limit ourselves to Shariatmadari or Khoei as beacons of azeri mullah clergy (they were also as fanatic as anyone else) ? none of these two members were liberal nor did they live long enough to see post war Iranian society that we can see how different they were from any other mullah. Lol Shariatmadari single handedly started the Anti West, Anti Liberal Fanatic Islamist violence in Azerbaijan against Shah.

Also why not consider Azeri cleric Khalkahli who was ordering hundreds of executions everyday ? why not Khamenei who has been sitting in Tehran throne for last 33 years ? Or in recent times Abbas ali Zanjani who thought University professors were less Muslims ...

and yes you are welcome to PM me.

[KirillMazur]

If a person is clean, then he does not need to use a deodorant. The chemical odor is only annoying, and reagents do not affect the skin in the most healthy way. And if a clean person prefers to use a deodorant, then he looks as if he is embarrassed by his purity, preferring a sharp alien smell - and this makes others suspect him of vanity or dislike for cleanliness of the body.

But if a person is already really dirty (or becomes dirty in the process of life), then the smell of dirt is mixed with the chemical smell of deodorant, and the total stench from the person only gets worse (rather than just the smell of a dirty body).
Thus, deodorant or useless (for a clean person) or only strengthens the stench (for a dirty person).

So is the church.

If a person has a clear conscience, then there is no need to walk in church. A man with a clear conscience going to church looks like wasting his time on meaningless (just for him) rituals. And from the outside it looks at best, suspiciously ("if his conscience is clear, why does he need a church? Apparently his gut is dirty").

If a person constantly commits meanness, but at the same time continues regular campaigns in the church, then this already looks just like disgusting shamelessness. Thieves and prostitutes in front of everyone kiss the cross so that the next day, with a cheeky smirk, they continue their filth.
Thus, the church is either useless (for a clean person), or only reinforces the stench (for a dirty person).

Yes, the church is like a deodorant.

[Ylla]

People who convert usually tend to be the worst kind of people , no matter what religion they did belong before. They become more radical .

Some of them tend to be more radical because they usually have a hidden agenda behind their conversion, want to prove their "faith" more or simply because they are better informed and serious about their beliefs hence the conversion in the first place. But what is considered radical is also subjective, nowadays even being a pious follower is considered radical. europeans seem really lukewarm about their faith compared to americans for example. It should really be center of a community, that way other aspects of your life can flourish.


Would you stay consistent and say that to someone who is a Muslim ?
Of course because it's not really my business but it's not the same thing so you can't really compare. But anyway this isn't about you! it's about a man converting to Christianity why are you making it about yourselves and saying he must have low intelligence etc you are all deeply against it and taking it personally but why? Yet try to appear liberal and accepting about it and you have the nerve to ask what my views are if it was a muslim conversion basically forcing a liberal answer out of me despite you being hostile and unaccepting of this man's conversion. I'm by no means a fanatic religious person (I keep my faith personal and respect others) but the reactions are interesting to see.

[Methuselah]

Well, I remember there are some verses in Talmud making 9 yo goyim girls halal for Jews. What do you think about your holly book?

Who told you i'm reading Talmud? If you are referring to my previous profile name and the fact i have told on this forum having distant Karaite Jewish and Pontic Greek roots, it's still not making sense, since Karaite Jews reject Talmud. But i don't think you have been around this forum long enough to know these things. I come from Finnish- Russian family and have some distant Karaite Jewish and Pontic Greek as far as i know, my DNA test will make it clear this summer. But how does that make me to read Talmud, what kind of logic is that? I grew up in a Methodist church. We didn't read Talmud there.

Not sure if those verses in Talmud are about little girls, there are many made up things to be honest. But there seems to be present some harsh stuff anyway.


Come on man . Lets be reasonable . You can't compare your subjective opinion in the 21st century to 7th century society . If the Quran had stated that you can marry a 6 year old then you have a point . But it doesn't say that . It gives you a criteria and condition to meet . If your claim is that prophet Muhammed pbuh was a paedo then why didnt this issue become a problem up until as recently as mid 20th century ? Why didn't he marry more 6 year olds? Why were all of his wives widowers? His first wife was his senior too .

The events of isra and miraaj is a miracle in itself . Muslims have no issue with accepting that , just as you , a Christian accept that Moses parted the sea , jesus cured the leper and so forth . We accept it to be true because its the direct proposition of accepting the Quran is the word of God . Simple

In regards to punishment, no I don't . There is no compulsion in religoun . I gave you the Islamic opinion with sources from Quran and hadith which you have quickly dismissed . I don't know man , sounds like your not open to learning .

Well if you didn't think it's a right thing to punish unbelievers then you wouldn't like apostasy laws, because they are made exactly for that. Maybe you don't support them?

I'm sorry for overreacting and calling your prophet with a nasty name. It just became silly, the whole conversation. I don't personally believe a holy man can be in countless crazy sexual relationships but culture wise it was what it was, i agree it was different back then, it's hard not to agree on that. And yes, i already accepted the fact that Christians believe in supernatural as well.

[Dr_Maul]

If a person is clean, then he does not need to use a deodorant. The chemical odor is only annoying, and reagents do not affect the skin in the most healthy way. And if a clean person prefers to use a deodorant, then he looks as if he is embarrassed by his purity, preferring a sharp alien smell - and this makes others suspect him of vanity or dislike for cleanliness of the body.

But if a person is already really dirty (or becomes dirty in the process of life), then the smell of dirt is mixed with the chemical smell of deodorant, and the total stench from the person only gets worse (rather than just the smell of a dirty body).
Thus, deodorant or useless (for a clean person) or only strengthens the stench (for a dirty person).

So is the church.

If a person has a clear conscience, then there is no need to walk in church. A man with a clear conscience going to church looks like wasting his time on meaningless (just for him) rituals. And from the outside it looks at best, suspiciously ("if his conscience is clear, why does he need a church? Apparently his gut is dirty").

If a person constantly commits meanness, but at the same time continues regular campaigns in the church, then this already looks just like disgusting shamelessness. Thieves and prostitutes in front of everyone kiss the cross so that the next day, with a cheeky smirk, they continue their filth.
Thus, the church is either useless (for a clean person), or only reinforces the stench (for a dirty person).

Yes, the church is like a deodorant.

based

[Avicenna]

Who told you i'm reading Talmud? If you are referring to my previous profile name and the fact i have told on this forum having distant Karaite Jewish and Pontic Greek roots, it's still not making sense, since Karaite Jews reject Talmud. But i don't think you have been around this forum long enough to know these things. I come from Finnish- Russian family and have some distant Karaite Jewish and Pontic Greek as far as i know, my DNA test will make it clear this summer. But how does that make me to read Talmud, what kind of logic is that? I grew up in a Methodist church. We didn't read Talmud there.

Not sure if those verses in Talmud are about little girls, there are many made up things to be honest. But there seems to be present some harsh stuff anyway.



Well if you didn't think it's a right thing to punish unbelievers then you wouldn't like apostasy laws, because they are made exactly for that. Maybe you don't support them?

I'm sorry for overreacting and calling your prophet with a nasty name. It just became silly, the whole conversation. I don't personally believe a holy man can be in countless crazy sexual relationships but culture wise it was what it was, i agree it was different back then, it's hard not to agree on that. And yes, i already accepted the fact that Christians believe in supernatural as well.

I will send you a pm to explain apostasy in Islam . I will also show you apostasy laws in Christian and Judaic faiths .

Appreciate your honesty and apology man . No worries . Hope we can have a fruitful discussion .

[Babak]

Its very true brother. Most of these people have no shame. One of the biggest dissident Iranian troll living in US was recently saying on twitter that virus related deaths in Iran are a blessing as it would put Iranian government in a weaker position.

There are tons of those people here. Most of the Iranian expats here love for the U.S to destroy Iran and yet they wear Faravahar. God its so embarrassing.

[Loki]

People who convert usually tend to be the worst kind of people , no matter what religion they did belong before. They become more radical .

Absolute lie and nonsense. People who seek the truth above all, are to be respected and commended. And that is what this person in the OP has done.

It is a common habit of Muslims to smear and insult ex-Muslims who have become Christians. This doesn't say anything about them, but a lot about you.

[Loki]

If a person is clean, then he does not need to use a deodorant. The chemical odor is only annoying, and reagents do not affect the skin in the most healthy way. And if a clean person prefers to use a deodorant, then he looks as if he is embarrassed by his purity, preferring a sharp alien smell - and this makes others suspect him of vanity or dislike for cleanliness of the body.

But if a person is already really dirty (or becomes dirty in the process of life), then the smell of dirt is mixed with the chemical smell of deodorant, and the total stench from the person only gets worse (rather than just the smell of a dirty body).
Thus, deodorant or useless (for a clean person) or only strengthens the stench (for a dirty person).

So is the church.

If a person has a clear conscience, then there is no need to walk in church. A man with a clear conscience going to church looks like wasting his time on meaningless (just for him) rituals. And from the outside it looks at best, suspiciously ("if his conscience is clear, why does he need a church? Apparently his gut is dirty").

If a person constantly commits meanness, but at the same time continues regular campaigns in the church, then this already looks just like disgusting shamelessness. Thieves and prostitutes in front of everyone kiss the cross so that the next day, with a cheeky smirk, they continue their filth.
Thus, the church is either useless (for a clean person), or only reinforces the stench (for a dirty person).

Yes, the church is like a deodorant.

We're not talking about church here. We're talking about having a relationship with God. And, in order to have that, there has to be first, repentance, and accepting of Jesus as saviour. There is nobody alive who does not need a saviour, who is too good to be a Christian and follow God. We all need God. And there is only one way to God, through Jesus Christ.

Perhaps this lockdown is useful to show people that having a relationship with God is not just about going to church... do these people stop being Christians if theit churches are closed and they can't attend services anymore?

[Nassbean]

I know for a fact Christianity is true, because I have personally experienced God, and he changed my life. I have also seen him doing miracles.

What kind of experiences and miracles exactly ?

[Teutone]

I rather have 5bio turks around me than one paki muslim or hindu indian.

[Loki]

What kind of experiences and miracles exactly ?

It's kinda difficult to explain in words what it is like to experience God.... because words to accurately describe it don't exist in our vocabulary.

As for miracles... I have seen plenty, from healings to God answering prayer supernaturally, beyond normal expectation.

[KirillMazur]

We're not talking about church here. We're talking about having a relationship with God. And, in order to have that, there has to be first, repentance, and accepting of Jesus as saviour. There is nobody alive who does not need a saviour, who is too good to be a Christian and follow God. We all need God. And there is only one way to God, through Jesus Christ.

Perhaps this lockdown is useful to show people that having a relationship with God is not just about going to church... do these people stop being Christians if theit churches are closed and they can't attend services anymore?
I totally agree. God is the basis of man, a spiritual entity that fills the body. A man without this essence can no longer be called a man, it is already closer to the biorobot, so that he is no longer able to distinguish between good and evil.
And churches are most often a parasitic superstructure on this entity in our material world.

[Oghuz]

There are tons of those people here. Most of the Iranian expats here love for the U.S to destroy Iran and yet they wear Faravahar. God its so embarrassing.

These people are disappearing hard and fast because Ist generation ran from Iran with their tails between their legs. Second generation is limited to saying bull crap on internet without knowing anything in reality about Iran and third generation will just care no more.

[Halgurd]

Persians yes, Iranics like Afghans no. I mean look at Avacinna here, he is just like the Typical Afghan guy I debate with in my local debate park or hyde park (apologetics after apologetics, and general religious conservatism). I think the average Persian is more intellectual than Afghanis.

Ahh you go to the speakers corner? I've seen crazy videos from there.

[KrashNick]

Absolute lie and nonsense. People who seek the truth above all, are to be respected and commended. And that is what this person in the OP has done.

It is a common habit of Muslims to smear and insult ex-Muslims who have become Christians. This doesn't say anything about them, but a lot about you.

I wasn't insulting that person from the video , in fact I didn't even bother to watch the video and what makes you even think that I am Muslim when I never stated that I belong to any religion even though I am not ashamed to admit that my family is Catholic and Muslim mixed , fortunately not religious ones.

But I am more interested to know what made you become religious, because this was your comment few years ago :D ?


This is about religion's supportive role then, i.e. the proverbial crutch. No one can deny this, however any true atheist won't start believing in God, just so they can cope with life better. It will mean the (ex) atheist will then live a lie by pretending to believe in God just so it can help him/her through life's hard times. I would never be able to do that. I don't believe in God and life's pressures won't make God more real to me.

[gixajo]

The existence of god has the same influence on my life than his no-existence.

My actions don´t depend from the existence or absence of any superior being and the existence or absence of god are equally undemonstrable facts, so I don´t care about god, and I have not any proof or evidence of any god caring about me.

When I dye, I will face the death (if anguish of unknow allows me) with curiosity, and even if there is a god or I go directy to nowhere but the total extintion of my conscience, I hope that I will not have anything to reproach myself for, or anything to be reproached, because I have tried to act justly.

[Loki]

I wasn't insulting that person from the video , in fact I didn't even bother to watch the video and what makes you even think that I am Muslim when I never stated that I belong to any religion even though I am not ashamed to admit that my family is Catholic and Muslim mixed , fortunately not religious ones.


Ah, yes, it's very evident that you didn't watch the video. You should. It's not good to comment about something without knowledge about it.



But I am more interested to know what made you become religious, because this was your comment few years ago :D ?

Even more evidence that you should take me much more seriously now... I've been there, done that... been an atheist, know all their arguments. And then I found God.

[Loki]

The existence of god has the same influence on my life than his no-existence.

My actions don´t depend from the existence or absence of any superior being and the existence or absence of god are equally undemonstrable facts, so I don´t care about god, and I have not any proof or evidence of any god caring about me.

When I dye, I will face the death (if anguish of unknow allows me) with curiosity, and even if there is a god or I go directy to nowhere but the total extintion of my conscience, I hope that I will not have anything to reproach myself for, or anything to be reproached, because I have tried to act justly.

This is not good enough, unfortunately, and this reasoning won't help you one day when you stand before the judgement seat of God. And ignorance is no excuse. Especially since there is such a mountain of witnesses around that speak of God's existence and reality. And I will add to that my voice: God is real, I guarantee you that. And the only way to know him is through Jesus Christ. Atheists will not escape judgement, no matter how "good" they have been in their lives. Jesus said that there is nobody good, not even one. Only God is good. We all need redemption from sin, we all need salvation through Jesus Christ.

[Avicenna]

Some of them tend to be more radical because they usually have a hidden agenda behind their conversion, want to prove their "faith" more or simply because they are better informed and serious about their beliefs hence the conversion in the first place. But what is considered radical is also subjective, nowadays even being a pious follower is considered radical. europeans seem really lukewarm about their faith compared to americans for example. It should really be center of a community, that way other aspects of your life can flourish.


Of course because it's not really my business but it's not the same thing so you can't really compare. But anyway this isn't about you! it's about a man converting to Christianity why are you making it about yourselves and saying he must have low intelligence etc you are all deeply against it and taking it personally but why? Yet try to appear liberal and accepting about it and you have the nerve to ask what my views are if it was a muslim conversion basically forcing a liberal answer out of me despite you being hostile and unaccepting of this man's conversion. I'm by no means a fanatic religious person (I keep my faith personal and respect others) but the reactions are interesting to see.

Erm I'm sorry Ylla but I have to interject here. I only made a comment about intellect and Christianity ( which I back up ) due to these hostile comments against Muslims within only the first page of this thread :

Default
"Muslims aré retard, ex muslims aré brilliant"

"People converting to Islam in the west are just messed up losers who were bullied in school, have it in for.."

I hope you stayed consistent and gave these fellas a thumbs down too :). My response was to Vojnik who "claimed" that most Muslim converts are messed up losers who have been bullied in life etc . I showed him two videos of English men who seem quite intellectual to me who have accepted Islam . And again I'll stress , I'll stand by what I said . You can challenge what I have to say if you want ( pm me since I don't want to create a shitstorm here )

[sean]

My response was to Vojnik who "claimed" that most Muslim converts are messed up losers who have been bullied in life etc. I showed him two videos of English men who seem quite intellectual to me who have accepted Islam. And again I'll stress, I'll stand by what I said. You can challenge what I have to say if you want.

Well, he is telling the truth.

In fact there are a number of studies on this subject which show the contrary.

Majority of white converts in the UK are women. Ten years ago they were all becoming Buddhists. Twenty years ago it was Opus Dei lel. Thirty years ago it was Hinduism. Its like fucking veganism or crystal healing dildos to them or some other new age trendy bullshit.

https://i.imgur.com/Oa5ZVRX.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1407465109434.jpg

And they are a minority among minorities.

https://i.imgur.com/Fao3FB9.jpg

Some of the converts clearly have mental issues (like anyone who willingly converts to Islam), often there's things fucked up with their neurological state.

https://i.imgur.com/CqJwX0c.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a4IA83U.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0YlUsHV.png
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1499880951386.jpg

Some people convert to Islam in prison to enjoy their protection.

https://i.imgur.com/cPQhe7h.jpg

These white female converts normally get socially ostracised.

https://i.imgur.com/9CzPzEF.jpg
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1503183289310.png

And these are exactly the type of women that fall into extremism and marry Jihadist fighters and run away abroad due to the fear of not being socially accepted as a Muslim.

https://i.imgur.com/7ABIg75.jpg

Not to mention, they normally exploit these women. You know damn well they are circulating videos of them raping white girls.

https://i.imgur.com/7Ij6z8O.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pfkyqEY.jpg

Many of these women become less religious overtime and even abandon their new religion.

https://i.imgur.com/JvFQzH7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uwGlIpv.jpg

I hope they know there's a death sentence for leaving.

https://i.imgur.com/fUC6KgI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RjdukNT.jpg

[Loki]

I showed him two videos of English men who seem quite intellectual to me who have accepted Islam . And again I'll stress , I'll stand by what I said . You can challenge what I have to say if you want ( pm me since I don't want to create a shitstorm here )

There are zero Englishmen of good upbringing and a sound mind who would convert to Islam. It's simply not possible. Those guys must have been suffering some mental defects or trauma in their lives.

[Kamal900]

Muslims aré retard, ex muslims aré brilliant.

:thumb001:

[pompandy]

Great decission.
First because he found the truly God and Christianity and Jesus are the Truth, the Way and the Life.
Second because being a Christian he has more chances to be human an succesfull than being mouslem.