View Full Version : Iranian Zoroastrian results (new average)
They seem quite unmixed, and have higher North_European/Steppe than other Persians (n=+10):
Dodecad k12b:
Iranian_Zoroastrian,27.96,0.76,1.19,0.34,5.80,9.21 ,4.10,0.40,12.91,0.14,36.93,0.18
Gedrosian: 27.96
Siberian: 0.76
Northwest_African: 1.19
Southeast_Asian: 0.34
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 9.21
South_Asian 4.10
East_African 0.40
Southwest_Asian: 12.91
East_Asian: 0.14
Caucasian: 36.93
SSA: 0.18
Distance to: Iranian_Zoroastrian
4.60957699 Iranian_Fars
5.14276190 Iranian
5.84380013 Iran_Central_East
6.00016666 Iranians
6.00895166 Lur_Iran
6.04268152 Kurd
6.12945348 Kurd_Sorani
6.23395541 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.25711595 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.65393117 Iran_Mazandaran
6.98841899 Kurds
7.71456415 Zaza
7.76888023 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.56601424 Iran_Khorasan
8.89187832 Turkmen_Iraq
9.07809451 Azerbaijani
10.16163373 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.88753416 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.10063221 Turk_Southeast
14.01748908 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.26802369 Turkmens
14.61437990 Turk_East
15.28834196 Turkmen_Iran
15.32845067 Turk_Central_East
15.35151133 Parsi_India
15.61007687 Turk_South
16.80739123 Turk_Anatolia
16.86719597 Armenian_East
16.91403264 Turk_Central_West
16.92720591 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
17.19576983 Iran_Bandari
18.38451250 Assyrian
18.77396602 Turk_Southwest
18.80816844 Turk_West_BlackSea
19.13243842 Yoruk
19.19028921 Turk_Ahiska
19.29350150 Circassian
19.36279164 Armenian_West
19.50963864 Kumyks
19.98296525 Avar_Dagestan
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.1536% / 1.15356956 | ADC: 0.25x
50.0 Iranian_Fars
25.8 Kurds
10.2 Avar_Dagestan
5.4 Iran_Central_East
4.4 Iran_Mazandaran
3.8 Iranians
0.4 Lithuanians
https://i.middle-east-online.com/styles/home_special_coverage_1920xauto/s3/2019-10/new.jpg?wEc1WojJgc4hcN5eEAKCYp3EFLuxwQAR&itok=KtL9uYCJ
https://media.mehrnews.com/d/2017/01/30/4/2358484.jpg?ts=1486462047399
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/6738912a/6670fb87/mideast-iran-zoroastrians-sadeh-festival-tehran-iran-shutterstock-editorial-6738912a.jpg
Rocinante
04-13-2020, 08:13 AM
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.4036% / 0.01403568
39.8 Iran_Neolithic
28.8 Early_European_Farmer
17.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
7.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
3.0 Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
2.8 Ancient_Dravidian
0.4 Ancient_American
White as fuck. Intereting.
Arhat
04-13-2020, 08:28 AM
They seem quite unmixed, and have higher North_European/Steppe than other Persians (n=+10):
Dodecad k12b:
Iranian_Zoroastrian,27.96,0.76,1.19,0.34,5.80,9.21 ,4.10,0.40,12.91,0.14,36.93,0.18
Gedrosian: 27.96
Siberian: 0.76
Northwest_African: 1.19
Southeast_Asian: 0.34
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 9.21
South_Asian 4.10
East_African 0.40
Southwest_Asian: 12.91
East_Asian: 0.14
Caucasian: 36.93
SSA: 0.18
Distance to: Iranian_Zoroastrian
4.60957699 Iranian_Fars
5.14276190 Iranian
5.84380013 Iran_Central_East
6.00016666 Iranians
6.00895166 Lur_Iran
6.04268152 Kurd
6.12945348 Kurd_Sorani
6.23395541 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.25711595 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.65393117 Iran_Mazandaran
6.98841899 Kurds
7.71456415 Zaza
7.76888023 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.56601424 Iran_Khorasan
8.89187832 Turkmen_Iraq
9.07809451 Azerbaijani
10.16163373 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.88753416 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.10063221 Turk_Southeast
14.01748908 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.26802369 Turkmens
14.61437990 Turk_East
15.28834196 Turkmen_Iran
15.32845067 Turk_Central_East
15.35151133 Parsi_India
15.61007687 Turk_South
16.80739123 Turk_Anatolia
16.86719597 Armenian_East
16.91403264 Turk_Central_West
16.92720591 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
17.19576983 Iran_Bandari
18.38451250 Assyrian
18.77396602 Turk_Southwest
18.80816844 Turk_West_BlackSea
19.13243842 Yoruk
19.19028921 Turk_Ahiska
19.29350150 Circassian
19.36279164 Armenian_West
19.50963864 Kumyks
19.98296525 Avar_Dagestan
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.1536% / 1.15356956 | ADC: 0.25x
50.0 Iranian_Fars
25.8 Kurds
10.2 Avar_Dagestan
5.4 Iran_Central_East
4.4 Iran_Mazandaran
3.8 Iranians
0.4 Lithuanians
https://i.middle-east-online.com/styles/home_special_coverage_1920xauto/s3/2019-10/new.jpg?wEc1WojJgc4hcN5eEAKCYp3EFLuxwQAR&itok=KtL9uYCJ
https://media.mehrnews.com/d/2017/01/30/4/2358484.jpg?ts=1486462047399
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/6738912a/6670fb87/mideast-iran-zoroastrians-sadeh-festival-tehran-iran-shutterstock-editorial-6738912a.jpg
They are not more steppe shifted than other Iranians. The most steppe shifted Iranians are from Khorasan and Muslim where Iranians are Tajik/Pashtun-like shifted. Zoroastrians are mostly from Yazd which is more in the east than Fars so their more eastern geography is making them a bit more steppe-shifted
I knew a Russian-speaking Zoroastrian convert, he was a mix of Tajiks, Uzbeks and Russians/Ukrainians, I believe. Knew many languages, including Avestan.
They are not more steppe shifted than other Iranians. The most steppe shifted Iranians are from Khorasan and Muslim where Iranians are Tajik/Pashtun-like shifted. Zoroastrians are mostly from Yazd which is more in the east than Fars so their more eastern geography is making them a bit more steppe-shifted
Not denying this. But I think they are as Steppe shifted as Iranians from Khorasan from what I have seen. Not less. Also have less foreign input.
Nomansman
04-13-2020, 08:37 AM
Likely zoroastrian from kerman:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 37.06
2 Gedrosia 30.31
3 Southwest_Asian 11.19
4 North_European 7.56
5 South_Asian 5.9
6 Atlantic_Med 5.84
7 Northwest_African 1.02
8 Siberian 0.86
9 East_African 0.16
10 Sub_Saharan 0.1
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian (Dodecad) 4.66
2 Iranians (Behar) 4.66
3 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.6
4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 7.68
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 13.75
6 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 14.74
7 Turks (Behar) 17.68
8 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 19.45
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.93
10 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 20.08
11 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 20.59
12 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 20.71
13 Assyrian (Dodecad) 20.87
14 Lezgins (Behar) 20.99
15 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 21.36
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 22.23
17 Armenian (Dodecad) 22.47
18 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 23.69
19 Lebanese (Behar) 23.72
20 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 24.47
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 15.4% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 1.8
2 90.6% Iranian (Dodecad) + 9.4% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 1.91
3 81.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 18.7% Pathan (HGDP) @ 1.97
4 86.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 13.1% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 2.01
5 88.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 11.5% Pathan (HGDP) @ 2.07
6 87.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.4% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 2.11
7 88.8% Kurd (Dodecad) + 11.2% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 2.25
8 91.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 8.6% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 2.34
9 86.9% Kurd (Dodecad) + 13.1% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 2.34
10 87.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.1% Indian (Dodecad) @ 2.35
11 92.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 7.5% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 2.36
12 88.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.5% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 2.39
13 87.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.3% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) @ 2.39
14 88.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.7% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 2.41
15 89.5% Kurd (Dodecad) + 10.5% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 2.42
16 83.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 16.7% Burusho (HGDP) @ 2.43
17 85.4% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 14.6% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 2.43
18 90.3% Iranian (Dodecad) + 9.7% Burusho (HGDP) @ 2.53
19 93% Iranian (Dodecad) + 7% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 2.53
20 84.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 15.9% Pathan (HGDP) @ 2.54
Indian irani likely from kerman:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 32.18
2 Gedrosia 29.18
3 Southwest_Asian 11.96
4 South_Asian 9.26
5 North_European 8.11
6 Atlantic_Med 7.37
7 Siberian 1.02
8 East_African 0.92
9 East_Asian 0.01
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 7.89
2 Iranian (Dodecad) 9.51
3 Kurd (Dodecad) 11.26
4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 12.4
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 12.7
6 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 17.68
7 Turks (Behar) 20.13
8 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 21.19
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 21.88
10 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 22.42
11 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 23.48
12 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 23.61
13 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 24.06
14 Assyrian (Dodecad) 24.15
15 Lezgins (Behar) 24.17
16 Lebanese (Behar) 24.55
17 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 24.55
18 Syrians (Behar) 25.2
19 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 25.21
20 Armenian (Dodecad) 26.1
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.8% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 32.2% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 2.32
2 62.1% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 37.9% Pathan (HGDP) @ 2.51
3 78.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 21.3% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 2.92
4 80.4% Kurd (Dodecad) + 19.6% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 3.02
5 79.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 20.1% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 3.25
6 54.4% Assyrian (Dodecad) + 45.6% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.41
7 81.6% Kurd (Dodecad) + 18.4% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 3.42
8 80.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 19.1% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 3.51
9 60.6% Assyrian (Dodecad) + 39.4% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 3.59
10 60.7% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 39.3% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 3.59
11 54.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 45.5% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.65
12 81.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 18.7% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 3.66
13 80.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 19.8% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) @ 3.76
14 82.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 17.7% Dharkars (Metspalu) @ 3.79
15 82.6% Kurd (Dodecad) + 17.4% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 3.8
16 55.1% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 44.9% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.81
17 80.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 19.5% Indian (Dodecad) @ 3.82
18 83.6% Iranian (Dodecad) + 16.4% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 3.83
19 83% Kurd (Dodecad) + 17% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 3.85
20 83.9% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.1% Dharkars (Metspalu) @ 3.85
Indian irani:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.2
2 Gedrosia 29.89
3 Southwest_Asian 11.82
4 North_European 9.4
5 Atlantic_Med 6.07
6 South_Asian 4.93
7 Northwest_African 1.49
8 Siberian 0.2
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 5.65
2 Iranian (Dodecad) 5.72
3 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.92
4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 7.77
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 13.69
6 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 14.82
7 Turks (Behar) 17.62
8 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 18.97
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.77
10 Lezgins (Behar) 20.28
11 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 20.58
12 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 20.9
13 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 20.9
14 Assyrian (Dodecad) 21.28
15 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 21.84
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 22.36
17 Armenian (Dodecad) 22.9
18 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 23.03
19 Lebanese (Behar) 23.3
20 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 24.03
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 15.3% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 2.37
2 81.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 18.4% Pathan (HGDP) @ 2.62
3 93.7% Iranians (Behar) + 6.3% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.8
4 93.5% Iranians (Behar) + 6.5% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.8
5 92.9% Iranians (Behar) + 7.1% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.84
6 93% Iranians (Behar) + 7% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.85
7 92.9% Iranians (Behar) + 7.1% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.91
8 92.5% Iranians (Behar) + 7.5% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.92
9 92.6% Iranians (Behar) + 7.4% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.93
10 92.8% Iranians (Behar) + 7.2% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.93
11 87.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.7% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 2.96
12 92.9% Iranians (Behar) + 7.1% Polish (Dodecad) @ 3.02
13 83.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 16.3% Burusho (HGDP) @ 3.09
14 93.1% Iranians (Behar) + 6.9% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.1
15 94.1% Iranians (Behar) + 5.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.17
16 87% Kurd (Dodecad) + 13% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 3.19
17 94% Iranians (Behar) + 6% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.19
18 88.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.7% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 3.38
19 84.3% Kurd (Dodecad) + 15.7% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.4
20 81.6% Iranians (Behar) + 18.4% Lezgins (Behar) @ 3.42
They seem quite unmixed, and have higher North_European/Steppe than other Persians (n=+10):
Dodecad k12b:
Iranian_Zoroastrian,27.96,0.76,1.19,0.34,5.80,9.21 ,4.10,0.40,12.91,0.14,36.93,0.18
Gedrosian: 27.96
Siberian: 0.76
Northwest_African: 1.19
Southeast_Asian: 0.34
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 9.21
South_Asian 4.10
East_African 0.40
Southwest_Asian: 12.91
East_Asian: 0.14
Caucasian: 36.93
SSA: 0.18
Distance to: Iranian_Zoroastrian
4.60957699 Iranian_Fars
5.14276190 Iranian
5.84380013 Iran_Central_East
6.00016666 Iranians
6.00895166 Lur_Iran
6.04268152 Kurd
6.12945348 Kurd_Sorani
6.23395541 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.25711595 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.65393117 Iran_Mazandaran
6.98841899 Kurds
7.71456415 Zaza
7.76888023 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.56601424 Iran_Khorasan
8.89187832 Turkmen_Iraq
9.07809451 Azerbaijani
10.16163373 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.88753416 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.10063221 Turk_Southeast
14.01748908 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.26802369 Turkmens
14.61437990 Turk_East
15.28834196 Turkmen_Iran
15.32845067 Turk_Central_East
15.35151133 Parsi_India
15.61007687 Turk_South
16.80739123 Turk_Anatolia
16.86719597 Armenian_East
16.91403264 Turk_Central_West
16.92720591 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
17.19576983 Iran_Bandari
18.38451250 Assyrian
18.77396602 Turk_Southwest
18.80816844 Turk_West_BlackSea
19.13243842 Yoruk
19.19028921 Turk_Ahiska
19.29350150 Circassian
19.36279164 Armenian_West
19.50963864 Kumyks
19.98296525 Avar_Dagestan
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.1536% / 1.15356956 | ADC: 0.25x
50.0 Iranian_Fars
25.8 Kurds
10.2 Avar_Dagestan
5.4 Iran_Central_East
4.4 Iran_Mazandaran
3.8 Iranians
0.4 Lithuanians
https://i.middle-east-online.com/styles/home_special_coverage_1920xauto/s3/2019-10/new.jpg?wEc1WojJgc4hcN5eEAKCYp3EFLuxwQAR&itok=KtL9uYCJ
https://media.mehrnews.com/d/2017/01/30/4/2358484.jpg?ts=1486462047399
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/6738912a/6670fb87/mideast-iran-zoroastrians-sadeh-festival-tehran-iran-shutterstock-editorial-6738912a.jpg
It’s a pseudo effect. It’s because they are less Caucasian admixed than NW Iranians and the components have to add up to 100% the N. European has to be larger. Here’s an example.
Let’s say
NW Iranian has
5 Caucasian alleles + 3 steppe alleles + 2 levant allele
Zoroastrian has
3 Caucasian alleles + 2 steppe alleles + 1 levant allele
Even though Zoroasterian has 1 less steppe allele than NW Iranian, the steppe percentages are:
NW Iranian = 3 / (5+3+2)= 3/10= 30%
Zoroasterian = 2 / (3+2+1) = 2/6 = 33%
But if you really want to check do IBD steppe vs Zoroasterian and steppe vs NW Iranian
Konstantinos
04-13-2020, 09:30 AM
Do you have Eurogenes k13 and k15?
axlredneck
04-13-2020, 09:33 AM
Do you have Eurogenes k13 and k15?
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?286324-Zoroastrians-from-Iran-and-from-India
Konstantinos
04-13-2020, 09:34 AM
It’s a pseudo effect. It’s because they are less Caucasian admixed than NW Iranians and the components have to add up to 100% the N. European has to be larger. Here’s an example.
Let’s say
NW Iranian has
5 Caucasian alleles + 3 steppe alleles + 2 levant allele
Zoroastrian has
3 Caucasian alleles + 2 steppe alleles + 1 levant allele
Even though Zoroasterian has 1 less steppe allele than NW Iranian, the steppe percentages are:
NW Iranian = 3 / (5+3+2)= 3/10= 30%
Zoroasterian = 2 / (3+2+1) = 2/6 = 33%
But if you really want to check do IBD steppe vs Zoroasterian and steppe vs NW Iranian
That's very interesting but how does it work? How can one have more alleles in total?
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?286324-Zoroastrians-from-Iran-and-from-India
Fucking Peterski has never shared the numbers with us. K15 is worse than 13 in most cases and also Harappa is needed.
That's very interesting but how does it work? How can one have more alleles in total?
It’s not more alleles. It’s more matching alleles with the calculator’s components. The calculator assumes that you have ALL the ancestral populations for the test subject but if we don’t then there’s problems with percentages.
Also let’s not forget that N. Europeans have more Anatolian farmer admixture than many W. Asians. So if some W. Asian shares 10 % admixture with N. Europeans how do we know if they’re sharing farmer alleles or EHG alleles with them.
That’s why i think he should do IBD to be more sure
Konstantinos
04-13-2020, 09:49 AM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?286324-Zoroastrians-from-Iran-and-from-India
Thank you.
axlredneck
04-13-2020, 09:51 AM
Fucking Peterski has never shared the numbers with us. K15 is worse than 13 in most cases and also Harappa is needed.
The Iranian Kerman reference on Vahaduo HW is a Zoroastrian I believe.
Thank you.
:)
The Iranian Kerman reference on Vahaduo HW is a Zoroastrian I believe.
:)
On Dodecad Kerman results are incorporated into the Iran_Central_East sample
axlredneck
04-13-2020, 10:00 AM
On Dodecad Kerman results are incorporated into the Iran_Central_East sample
Hmmm
Konstantinos
04-13-2020, 10:04 AM
It’s not more alleles. It’s more matching alleles with the calculator’s components. The calculator assumes that you have ALL the ancestral populations for the test subject but if we don’t then there’s problems with percentages.
Also let’s not forget that N. Europeans have more Anatolian farmer admixture than many W. Asians. So if some W. Asian shares 10 % admixture with N. Europeans how do we know if they’re sharing farmer alleles or EHG alleles with them.
That’s why i think he should do IBD to be more sure
So in essence if the calculator doesn't recognize the source of an allele it discards it and redistributes the pie in favour of the others? Do we have a suitable calculator for West-Central Asians, maybe Harappa?
So in essence if the calculator doesn't recognize the source of an allele it discards it and redistributes the pie in favour of the others? Do we have a suitable calculator for West-Central Asians, maybe Harappa?
Dodecad and Harappa are pretty similar.
@Peterski, stop sending me rep comments, you ass!
So in essence if the calculator doesn't recognize the source of an allele it discards it and redistributes the pie in favour of the others? Do we have a suitable calculator for West-Central Asians, maybe Harappa?
Not exactly. Most sites in genome are bi-allelic meaning there is only 2 allele choices , reference allele (major) and alternate allele (minor). Let's say chr 1 position 8652 has C as minor allele.
Let's say it's K-3 calculator with E. Asian, W. Asian, African components. Let's say there are 10 E. Asian, W. Asian, African references for each component.
Let's say 1 out of 10 African reference has C allele. So minor allele frequency at Chr1 pos 8652 for Africans will be 10%.
Let's say 5 out of 10 W. Asian reference has C allele. So minor allele frequency at Chr1 pos 8652 for W. Asian will be 50%
Let's say 8 out of 10 E. Asian reference has C allele. So minor allele frequency at Chr1 pos 8652 for E. Asian will be 80%
So now calculator decides that C allele at Chr1 pos 8652 is E. Asian
So if you have C allele at that position it will be assigned E. Asian.
But let's say 90% of a certain C. Asian population has C allele at that position. Well too bad because C. Asians were not one of calculator references, the calculator decided C allele is E. Asian.
Konstantinos
04-13-2020, 01:39 PM
Not exactly. Most sites in genome are bi-allelic meaning there is only 2 allele choices , reference allele (major) and alternate allele (minor). Let's say chr 1 position 8652 has C as minor allele.
Let's say it's K-3 calculator with E. Asian, W. Asian, African components. Let's say there are 10 E. Asian, W. Asian, African references for each component.
Let's say 1 out of 10 African reference has C allele. So minor allele frequency at Chr1 pos 8652 for Africans will be 10%.
Let's say 5 out of 10 W. Asian reference has C allele. So minor allele frequency at Chr1 pos 8652 for W. Asian will be 50%
Let's say 8 out of 10 E. Asian reference has C allele. So minor allele frequency at Chr1 pos 8652 for E. Asian will be 80%
So now calculator decides that C allele at Chr1 pos 8652 is E. Asian
So if you have C allele at that position it will be assigned E. Asian.
But let's say 90% of a certain C. Asian population has C allele at that position. Well too bad because C. Asians were not one of calculator references, the calculator decided C allele is E. Asian.
OK I get it. So extra steppe could be read even though the relevant alleles might be from Iran_N-heavy Central Asia or CHG for example.
Babak
04-13-2020, 01:42 PM
Looks very similiar to Khorasani results. Cool!
Avicenna
04-13-2020, 01:52 PM
Cool results ! It's fascinating since many Indian Parsis and iranis have kept their culture and ethno identity. Alot of them look very similar to native Iranians too.
Looks very similiar to Khorasani results. Cool!
Actually there are some differences to other East Iranians:
They have less South Asian. And less Turkic/East Eurasian influence. It is basically non-existant in Zoroastrians.
Babak
04-13-2020, 03:44 PM
Actually there are some differences to other East Iranians:
They have less South Asian. And less Turkic/East Eurasian influence. It is basically non-existant in Zoroastrians.
True.
Babak
04-13-2020, 03:45 PM
Actually there are some differences to other East Iranians:
They have less South Asian. And less Turkic/East Eurasian influence. It is basically non-existant in Zoroastrians.
True.
Rocinante
04-13-2020, 03:45 PM
They are not more steppe shifted than other Iranians. The most steppe shifted Iranians are from Khorasan and Muslim where Iranians are Tajik/Pashtun-like shifted. Zoroastrians are mostly from Yazd which is more in the east than Fars so their more eastern geography is making them a bit more steppe-shifted
Yes, but you know that Iran_Neolithic, like Ganj Dareh, are extremely close genetically to Steppe Pastoralist, so they are more white than the people scoring a lot of Dravidian relative ancestry.
Arhat
04-13-2020, 04:40 PM
Yes, but you know that Iran_Neolithic, like Ganj Dareh, are extremely close genetically to Steppe Pastoralist, so they are more white than the people scoring a lot of Dravidian relative ancestry.
No they are not. Iran_Ganj is probably as much as distant from steppe people as modern day Arabs or Turks. Also steppe people had zero admix from Iran_N and Iran_N was dark and probably not that much whiter than modern day North Indians or Baluchs (Iran_N is highest among modern day Baluchs)
Rocinante
04-13-2020, 04:50 PM
No they are not. Iran_Ganj is probably as much as distant from steppe people as modern day Arabs or Turks. Also steppe people had zero admix from Iran_N and Iran_N was dark and probably not that much whiter than modern day North Indians or Baluchs (Iran_N is highest among modern day Baluchs)
Ganj dareh is almost 100% CHG, also plotting near Steppe.
Avicenna
04-13-2020, 04:52 PM
No they are not. Iran_Ganj is probably as much as distant from steppe people as modern day Arabs or Turks. Also steppe people had zero admix from Iran_N and Iran_N was dark and probably not that much whiter than modern day North Indians or Baluchs (Iran_N is highest among modern day Baluchs)
Iran N is closest to Georgians , balochis , brahuis , Lebanese and Iranian Zoroastrians too . Not too sure about skin tone but presumably most Neolithic farmers were quite dark skinned anyways .
Token
04-13-2020, 04:55 PM
Yes, but you know that Iran_Neolithic, like Ganj Dareh, are extremely close genetically to Steppe Pastoralist, so they are more white than the people scoring a lot of Dravidian relative ancestry.
Ganj Dareh are nowhere near Bronze Age Steppe herders.
Rocinante
04-13-2020, 05:00 PM
Ganj Dareh are nowhere near Bronze Age Steppe herders.
Yes, but you can't compare a mixed steppe of the BA with the neolithic unmixed one. Ganj Dareh is very near CHG in the PCA.
Yes, but you know that Iran_Neolithic, like Ganj Dareh, are extremely close genetically to Steppe Pastoralist, so they are more white than the people scoring a lot of Dravidian relative ancestry.
Ganj dareh is almost 100% CHG, also plotting near Steppe.
You're so funny. Where in the world do you come up with this stuff :picard1:
They are much farther from steppe than any modern Iranics and no they were not light colored at all. Like Arhat pointed out they probably were similar pigmentation to Balochis and had similar features. Even S. Indians have a decent amount of Iran-N related.
CHG is more EHG shifted than Iran-N. Balochis have the highest Iran-N followed by other Iranians and Kurds.
Maybe you're confusing steppe with ancient N. Eurasian related to MA1 (22Kya) and Afontogora3(16Kya) because according to the Lazaridis paper both CHG and Iran-N have about 22% of AG3 related.
Hajimurad
04-13-2020, 05:38 PM
I knew a Russian-speaking Zoroastrian convert, he was a mix of Tajiks, Uzbeks and Russians/Ukrainians, I believe. Knew many languages, including Avestan.
Iskandar from lingvoforum?
Rocinante
04-13-2020, 06:43 PM
You're so funny. Where in the world do you come up with this stuff :picard1:
They are much farther from steppe than any modern Iranics and no they were not light colored at all. Like Arhat pointed out they probably were similar pigmentation to Balochis and had similar features. Even S. Indians have a decent amount of Iran-N related.
CHG is more EHG shifted than Iran-N. Balochis have the highest Iran-N followed by other Iranians and Kurds.
Maybe you're confusing steppe with ancient N. Eurasian related to MA1 (22Kya) and Afontogora3(16Kya) because according to the Lazaridis paper both CHG and Iran-N have about 22% of AG3 related.
I'm not confusing anything, what i said is that Iran Neolithic (Ganj Dareh, Wezmeh) plots near CHG, this is true. In G25, Go to the calc in my signature and insert coords to PCA Vahaduo, see how they plot near.
I'm not confusing anything, what i said is that Iran Neolithic (Ganj Dareh, Wezmeh) plots near CHG, this is true. In G25, Go to the calc in my signature and insert coords to PCA Vahaduo, see how they plot near.
It's true they are close to CHG. And I think their looks could vary with region. For example Caspian Iranians are the most Neolithic shifted Iranians yet they are the lightest. Probably because of climate etc. But overall they were quite dark I imagine.
Babak
04-13-2020, 07:17 PM
It's true they are close to CHG. And I think their looks could vary with region. For example Caspian Iranians are the most Neolithic shifted Iranians yet they are the lightest. Probably because of climate etc. But overall they were quite dark I imagine.
Its speculated they looked like modern day Brahuis.
Oghuz
04-14-2020, 12:51 PM
https://i.middle-east-online.com/styles/home_special_coverage_1920xauto/s3/2019-10/new.jpg?wEc1WojJgc4hcN5eEAKCYp3EFLuxwQAR&itok=KtL9uYCJ
]
Bashure Kurdistan not Iran
Bashure Kurdistan not Iran
Correct. Just realized. I just picked the first google images
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 01:37 PM
Its speculated they looked like modern day Brahuis.
I typed them up on YouTube and tbh alot of them look very south asian looking . Although it might be important to add they were from Pakistan, mainly urban areas .
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 01:38 PM
It's true they are close to CHG. And I think their looks could vary with region. For example Caspian Iranians are the most Neolithic shifted Iranians yet they are the lightest. Probably because of climate etc. But overall they were quite dark I imagine.
The closest pop to Iranian neo is Georgians I believe . There was an ibd list in the eurogenes comment section which i can't seem to find .
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 01:51 PM
It's true they are close to CHG. And I think their looks could vary with region. For example Caspian Iranians are the most Neolithic shifted Iranians yet they are the lightest. Probably because of climate etc. But overall they were quite dark I imagine.
This is an IBS list for Iran_Chalcolithic:
Assyrian 65.946%
Georgian 65.937%
Abkhasian 65.887%
Lebanese_Christian 65.859%
Iranian 65.844%
Chechen 65.830%
Cypriot 65.829%
Adygei 65.772%
Azeri 65.734%
Makrani 65.676%
Lebanese_Muslim 65.654%
Brahui 65.654%
Lebanese 65.644%
Balochi 65.641%
Greek 65.630%
Iranian_Bandari 65.620%
Saudi 65.566%
Kalash 65.560%
Jordanian 65.516%
BedouinB 65.499%
Bulgarian 65.488%
Pathan 65.488%
Pashtun_Afghan 65.437%
Sindhi 65.434%
GujaratiA 65.388%
Burusho 65.343%
GujaratiB 65.303%
GujaratiC 65.221%
GujaratiD 65.169%
Egyptian 65.154%
Yemeni 65.098%
Punjabi 65.092%
Ju_hoan_North 61.902%
Iran N
Makrani 65.732%
Brahui 65.714%
Iranian 65.697%
Balochi 65.696%
Abkhasian 65.596%
Georgian 65.568%
Iranian_Bandari 65.561%
Assyrian 65.529%
Kalash 65.521%
Pathan 65.479%
GujaratiA 65.447%
Sindhi 65.445%
Adygei 65.427%
Chechen 65.423%
Lebanese_Christian 65.392%
Lebanese_Muslim 65.338%
Pashtun_Afghan 65.295%
Azeri 65.289%
Burusho 65.274%
Cypriot 65.271%
GujaratiB 65.270%
GujaratiC 65.217%
GujaratiD 65.193%
Lebanese 65.156%
Saudi 65.155%
Punjabi 65.119%
Greek 65.092%
Jordanian 65.085%
Bulgarian 65.064%
BedouinB 65.024%
Yemeni 64.838%
Egyptian 64.812%
Ju_hoan_North 62.416%
Babak
04-14-2020, 01:51 PM
I typed them up on YouTube and tbh alot of them look very south asian looking . Although it might be important to add they were from Pakistan, mainly urban areas .
Yep. Persian bandaris and baluchis dont look much different from them either.
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 01:54 PM
Yep. Persian bandaris and baluchis dont look much different from them either.
Iranian neolithics were CHG right ? Where did CHG come from ? What did they look like ? Caucasus hunter gatherers were from the Caucasus ?
Hajimurad
04-14-2020, 02:00 PM
Yep. Persian bandaris and baluchis dont look much different from them either.
What is origin of Bandaris? Are they connected with Baloch people?
Nomansman
04-14-2020, 02:21 PM
What is origin of Bandaris? Are they connected with Baloch people?
Yep. Persian bandaris and baluchis dont look much different from them either.
deleted double post
Nomansman
04-14-2020, 02:22 PM
What is origin of Bandaris? Are they connected with Baloch people?
Yep. Persian bandaris and baluchis dont look much different from them either.
I think many bandars are just balochs being persianfied/just balochs. FOund results of some iranian balochs from hormuzgan and they didnt look different from 2/3 of the bandar abbas samples from the g25 spreadsheet
Iranian neolithics were CHG right ? Where did CHG come from ? What did they look like ? Caucasus hunter gatherers were from the Caucasus ?
CHG with some minor South Asian I think. CHG probably from Caucasus/North Iran area and I imagine them to have a very archaic and harsh look with pronounced features. Common for most CHG-heavy populations.
Babak
04-14-2020, 02:54 PM
Iranian neolithics were CHG right ? Where did CHG come from ? What did they look like ? Caucasus hunter gatherers were from the Caucasus ?
CHG folks from the caucasus mixed with Iran N people pretty much. They probably didnt look much different from caucasian populations
CHG folks from the caucasus mixed with Iran N people pretty much. They probably didnt look much different from caucasian populations
Mixed? I think they are from the same source rather than mixed. Also I imagine them to look like slightly darker Chechens
Babak
04-14-2020, 03:02 PM
Mixed? I think they are from the same source rather than mixed. Also I imagine them to look like slightly darker Chechens
I guess
Iran Neolithic
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 West-Asian 70.37
2 Indian 16.47
3 Indo-Iranian 8.48
4 Near_East 3.07
5 Sub-Saharian 1.42
6 Austronesian 0.19
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Brahui (derived) 17.81
2 Makrani (derived) 21.96
3 Balochi (derived) 22.3
4 Parsi (derived) 24.12
5 Pashtun (derived) 24.98
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Avar (derived) 17.93
2 Lezgin (derived) 18.22
3 Lak (derived) 18.23
4 Abhkasian (derived) 19.28
5 Tabassaran (derived) 19.59
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 03:15 PM
I guess
Iran Neolithic
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 West-Asian 70.37
2 Indian 16.47
3 Indo-Iranian 8.48
4 Near_East 3.07
5 Sub-Saharian 1.42
6 Austronesian 0.19
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Brahui (derived) 17.81
2 Makrani (derived) 21.96
3 Balochi (derived) 22.3
4 Parsi (derived) 24.12
5 Pashtun (derived) 24.98
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Avar (derived) 17.93
2 Lezgin (derived) 18.22
3 Lak (derived) 18.23
4 Abhkasian (derived) 19.28
5 Tabassaran (derived) 19.59
Do you happen to have a harappa result for this sample ?
Babak
04-14-2020, 03:17 PM
Do you happen to have a harappa result for this sample ?
I dont unf
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 03:18 PM
Mixed? I think they are from the same source rather than mixed. Also I imagine them to look like slightly darker Chechens
Something like the fella on the right ?
https://i.imgur.com/FGD0VQj.jpg
Dr_Maul
04-14-2020, 03:19 PM
It's true they are close to CHG. And I think their looks could vary with region. For example Caspian Iranians are the most Neolithic shifted Iranians yet they are the lightest. Probably because of climate etc. But overall they were quite dark I imagine.
I don't really think NATIVE Mazandarani/Gilaks are very different phenotypically from Persians, mainly the "white" Mazandarani are those who have significant Georgian or Circassian / other Kavkaz DNA. It's also apparent because of the prevalence of G2a in the region
I don't really think NATIVE Mazandarani/Gilaks are very different phenotypically from Persians, mainly the "white" Mazandarani are those who have significant Georgian or Circassian / other Kavkaz DNA. It's also apparent because of the prevalence of G2a in the region
Might be true. But do you think G2a in the region is because of recent migrations? I always thought it's more ancient from some Caucasus migration.
axlredneck
04-14-2020, 03:29 PM
Do you happen to have a harappa result for this sample ?
#1 Population Percent
1 Baloch 57.09
2 Caucasian 24.37
3 S-Indian 6.92
4 W-African 5.48
5 SW-Asian 4.34
6 Papuan 1.08
7 Pygmy 0.46
8 SE-Asian 0.25
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 makrani (hgdp) 11.65
2 balochi (hgdp) 13.49
3 brahui (hgdp) 14.14
4 kalash (hgdp) 22.55
5 pathan (hgdp) 24.96
6 bhatia (harappa) 25.06
7 pashtun (harappa) 26.61
8 sindhi (hgdp) 26.84
9 sindhi (harappa) 26.99
10 burusho (hgdp) 27.41
11 punjabi-arain (xing) 29.2
12 tajik (yunusbayev) 29.48
13 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 29.84
14 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 30.59
15 kashmiri (harappa) 30.96
16 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 31.18
17 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 32.03
18 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 32.42
19 iranian (behar) 32.45
20 punjabi (harappa) 32.62
#2 Population Percent
1 Baloch 62.69
2 Caucasian 24.9
3 S-Indian 6.15
4 SW-Asian 3.94
5 W-African 1.71
6 Papuan 0.44
7 San 0.17
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 makrani (hgdp) 14.44
2 brahui (hgdp) 14.81
3 balochi (hgdp) 15.46
4 kalash (hgdp) 25.54
5 bhatia (harappa) 27.59
6 pathan (hgdp) 28.1
7 sindhi (hgdp) 29.45
8 sindhi (harappa) 30.14
9 burusho (hgdp) 30.43
10 pashtun (harappa) 30.61
11 punjabi-arain (xing) 31.78
12 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 33.05
13 tajik (yunusbayev) 33.13
14 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 33.58
15 kashmiri (harappa) 34.3
16 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 34.42
17 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 35.03
18 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 35.45
19 punjabi (harappa) 35.66
20 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 35.83
#3 Population Percent
1 Baloch 56.2
2 Caucasian 32.82
3 SW-Asian 7.99
4 S-Indian 2.77
5 Pygmy 0.23
# Population (source) Distance
1 makrani (hgdp) 18.28
2 balochi (hgdp) 20.12
3 brahui (hgdp) 20.72
4 kalash (hgdp) 27.33
5 iranian (behar) 28.19
6 iranian (harappa) 28.43
7 kurd (xing) 28.91
8 pashtun (harappa) 29.61
9 pathan (hgdp) 29.88
10 kurd (harappa) 30.11
11 kurd (yunusbayev) 30.41
12 tajik (yunusbayev) 30.57
13 bhatia (harappa) 31
14 turkmen (yunusbayev) 31.43
15 sindhi (harappa) 32.17
16 burusho (hgdp) 32.96
17 sindhi (hgdp) 33.54
18 lezgin (behar) 34.42
19 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 34.79
20 punjabi-arain (xing) 35.47
Dr_Maul
04-14-2020, 03:35 PM
Might be true. But do you think G2a in the region is because of recent migrations? I always thought it's more ancient from some Caucasus migration.
There is G2a from ancient migrations but it is relatively the same rate as the rest of the country. The reason it is at a much higher rate along the caspian is because of Circassian/Georgian deportations during Safavid days
Iranian neolithics were CHG right ? Where did CHG come from ? What did they look like ? Caucasus hunter gatherers were from the Caucasus ?
Here are the official results from the Lazaridis paper using formal stats (qpAdm). These trump any admixture or IBS results. CHG is mostly Iran-N related with some EHG and WHG.
By the Chalcolithic it looks like Levant-N type admixture had made it into the Zagros area as shown below.
Dilawer had told me that his analysis was also consistent with these results.
https://i.imgur.com/21QjLiK.png?1
Eline
04-14-2020, 04:32 PM
double post
Eline
04-14-2020, 04:39 PM
double post
Eline
04-14-2020, 04:40 PM
By the Chalcolithic it looks like Levant-N type admixture had made it into the Zagros area as shown below.
https://i.imgur.com/21QjLiK.png?1No, not Levant_N, but Anatolia_N. Anatolia_N itself had a lot Levant_N.
Iran_CHL (Gutians or very, very early Iranians) can be mostly modelled as Armenia_ChL + CHG. Gutians (proto-BMAC, proto-Kassites/Mitanni, proto-Medes) were most likely related to the Kura-Araxes people but a little bit more shifted toward the Iranian Plateau.
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 05:14 PM
Here are the official results from the Lazaridis paper using formal stats (qpAdm). These trump any admixture or IBS results. CHG is mostly Iran-N related with some EHG and WHG.
By the Chalcolithic it looks like Levant-N type admixture had made it into the Zagros area as shown below.
Dilawer had told me that his analysis was also consistent with these results.
https://i.imgur.com/21QjLiK.png?1
What are your conclusions based on these ?
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 06:28 PM
So if CHG / Iranian Neolithics looked somewhat like this person BEFORE the migration to the Indus
https://i.imgur.com/i8Lym8P.jpg
What did the IVC people look like in general ? They were mainly of Iranian agriculture farmers with South Asian admixture , so something like modern populations living in the Indus such as balochis , Sindhis ?
https://i.imgur.com/d9RheFp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YUoY72h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5mWMlU7.jpg
Steppe pastoralists looked like this ?
https://i.imgur.com/R25w4Dt.jpg
Babak
04-14-2020, 06:55 PM
So if CHG / Iranian Neolithics looked somewhat like this person BEFORE the migration to the Indus
https://i.imgur.com/i8Lym8P.jpg
What did the IVC people look like in general ? They were mainly of Iranian agriculture farmers with South Asian admixture , so something like modern populations living in the Indus such as balochis , Sindhis ?
https://i.imgur.com/d9RheFp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YUoY72h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5mWMlU7.jpg
Steppe pastoralists looked like this ?
https://i.imgur.com/R25w4Dt.jpg
Probably darker those pics. Dravidians would be a more accurate representation.
Early iranics looked similar to this woman in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiOfXjgSbD8
And this no cherry picking:
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/RM1259/traditional-pamiri-musicians-khorog-tajikistan-RM1259.jpg
https://onartandaesthetics.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pamiri-girl-ladak-004-nocrop-w1800-h1330-2x.jpg?w=768&h=768
https://onartandaesthetics.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pamiri-girl-ladak-008-nocrop-w1800-h1330-2x.jpg?w=768&h=768
https://live.staticflickr.com/1897/44317683291_fc55c1b857_b.jpg
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 07:19 PM
Probably darker those pics. Dravidians would be a more accurate representation.
Early iranics looked similar to this woman in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiOfXjgSbD8
And this no cherry picking:
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/RM1259/traditional-pamiri-musicians-khorog-tajikistan-RM1259.jpg
https://onartandaesthetics.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pamiri-girl-ladak-004-nocrop-w1800-h1330-2x.jpg?w=768&h=768
https://onartandaesthetics.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pamiri-girl-ladak-008-nocrop-w1800-h1330-2x.jpg?w=768&h=768
https://live.staticflickr.com/1897/44317683291_fc55c1b857_b.jpg
I don't think they looked Dravidian at all man, they were mainly composed of Iranian pastoralists who migrated from the zagros mountains . I think modern day balochis and Sindhis are a much better fit .
Correct me if I'm wrong , but the IVC people were pushed to the sub continent and mixed with SHG ?
Arhat
04-14-2020, 07:24 PM
Yes, but you can't compare a mixed steppe of the BA with the neolithic unmixed one. Ganj Dareh is very near CHG in the PCA.
Iran_N is on global25 as much as close to CHG as Syrians are to North Europeans so using the same logic Arabs and Europeans are a cluster. The main component of Iranians is not Iran_N and Iran_Chalcolithic (Iran_N + Barcin-like) instead.
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 07:40 PM
Probably darker those pics. Dravidians would be a more accurate representation.
Early iranics looked similar to this woman in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiOfXjgSbD8
And this no cherry picking:
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/RM1259/traditional-pamiri-musicians-khorog-tajikistan-RM1259.jpg
https://onartandaesthetics.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pamiri-girl-ladak-004-nocrop-w1800-h1330-2x.jpg?w=768&h=768
https://onartandaesthetics.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pamiri-girl-ladak-008-nocrop-w1800-h1330-2x.jpg?w=768&h=768
https://live.staticflickr.com/1897/44317683291_fc55c1b857_b.jpg
I don't think they looked Dravidian at all man, they were mainly composed of Iranian pastoralists who migrated from the zagros mountains . I think modern day balochis and Sindhis are a much better fit .
Correct me if I'm wrong , but the IVC people were pushed to the sub continent and mixed with SHG ?
Babak
04-14-2020, 08:13 PM
I don't think they looked Dravidian at all man, they were mainly composed of Iranian pastoralists who migrated from the zagros mountains . I think modern day balochis and Sindhis are a much better fit .
Correct me if I'm wrong , but the IVC people were pushed to the sub continent and mixed with SHG ?
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dc0f0329d077e9dd57b4fe5f46761734
Avicenna
04-14-2020, 10:05 PM
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dc0f0329d077e9dd57b4fe5f46761734
He is not Dravidian however . The IVC folks were mainly Iranian Neolithics right ?
By mainly I mean they were a mixture of Iranian Neo and SHG. So they looked like modern day Indus pops like Sindhis , balochis
Babak
04-14-2020, 10:17 PM
He is not Dravidian however . The IVC folks were mainly Iranian Neolithics right ?
By mainly I mean they were a mixture of Iranian Neo and SHG. So they looked like modern day Indus pops like Sindhis , balochis
I know hes not dravidian because I agree with you. So yea, they looked like balochis and brahuis.
What are your conclusions based on these ?
with regards to what exactly?
The single results (Dodecad k12b):
28,1 0,54 1,27 0 7,63 8,03 6,04 0 12,21 0,76 35,43 0
30,87 0 0 0,55 6,32 9,57 3,17 0,36 11,49 0 37,66 0
23,68 1,18 0,12 0,39 2,95 8,89 5,01 0 13,17 0 44,29 0,32
27,87 0 0 0,47 5,26 11,47 3,71 0,67 13,25 0 36,74 0,57
25,28 0,56 0,7 0 4,61 11,14 6,08 0,73 12,93 0 37,92 0,05
26,28 0,72 0,02 2,23 4,41 9,87 3,46 1,85 14,39 0 36,77 0
29,39 2,2 3 0 7,73 6,75 1,22 0 13,8 0,43 35,29 0,19
29,4 2,28 5,38 0 6,41 9,07 1,16 0 10,62 0 35,67 0
30,52 0,48 1,77 0 8,66 7,9 6,37 0 9,13 0,11 34,11 0,94
26,43 0 0 0 5,26 11,23 5,41 0,21 14,53 0,41 36,43 0,1
27,92 1,14 1,28 0 5,11 6,2 5,73 0,79 14,2 0 37,63 0
29,83 0 1,4 0,41 5,32 10,45 1,89 0,24 15,23 0 35,23 0
27,71 0 0,34 1,35 6,84 10,26 5,52 0 11,4 0,12 36,45 0
26,84 0,19 1,67 0,32 6,52 9,58 2,47 0 12,49 0,99 38,95 0
30,26 0,82 0 1,28 3,66 10,47 4,56 0 12,31 0 35,88 0,78
30,52 1,65 0,07 0 7,61 7,45 3,75 0 12,64 0 36,32 0
27,71 0 1,67 0,52 8,74 9,39 4,38 0 15,32 0 32,28 0
26,36 0,29 0,53 2,24 7,32 7,27 5,11 0 9,67 0 38,04 3,18
28,97 0 0 0,67 3,15 8,33 7,29 0 13,15 0,81 37,64 0
35 1,75 0 0,83 2,57 9,71 8,67 0 9,19 2,52 29,41 0,37
24,71 0,16 2,65 0 6,97 11,13 4,92 0 10,54 0 38,91 0
28,48 0,95 0 0 9,38 8,59 3,24 0 11,94 0 36,98 0,43
26,87 0 0 0 6,94 10,65 6,46 0,75 12,88 0 35,45 0
27,03 0,03 2,16 1,84 0,86 9,88 6,48 0,02 14,98 0 36,28 0,44
26,71 0,74 3,09 0,66 7,92 6,7 4,26 0 12,4 0 37,5 0
31,26 0,56 0,91 0 8,47 6,29 5,44 0,28 9,83 0 36,51 0,45
28,45 0,57 0 0 8,74 7,77 3,23 0,35 14,76 0 35,74 0,38
25,12 0,31 1,71 0 7,77 11,55 5,97 1,29 12,88 0 33,4 0
Demhat
09-08-2020, 11:59 PM
OK I get it. So extra steppe could be read even though the relevant alleles might be from Iran_N-heavy Central Asia or CHG for example.
Yep ^this. This is a general major problem with any Admixture calculator even mroe with the company calculators. The "North European" could be a allel that is just slightly more common among North Europeans than Caucasians but ultimately stems from a Iran_Neolithic like population which is just unknown to the calculator list of sources. This is why a significant part of Iran_Neolithic like genes among Iranians and South Asians are assigned to the "South Asian" label because the frequency of these allels are more frequent among the South Asian source populations but in reality it stems from a not used or unknown Iranian_farmer like source.
Trouble
09-09-2020, 12:02 AM
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.4036% / 0.01403568
39.8 Iran_Neolithic
28.8 Early_European_Farmer
17.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
7.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
3.0 Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
2.8 Ancient_Dravidian
0.4 Ancient_American
White as fuck. Intereting.
I see nothing white about that. Those results are very much in line with regular Muslim Iranians although they lack that ~5% Turko-Mongolic ancestry that the Muslims have.
Adamm
09-09-2020, 12:05 AM
I see nothing white about that. Those results are very much in line with regular Muslim Iranians although they lack that 5% Turko-Mongolic ancestry.
Is that steppe ancestry normal for average Iranians?
Demhat
09-09-2020, 12:08 AM
No they are not. Iran_Ganj is probably as much as distant from steppe people as modern day Arabs or Turks. Also steppe people had zero admix from Iran_N and Iran_N was dark and probably not that much whiter than modern day North Indians or Baluchs (Iran_N is highest among modern day Baluchs)
Agree on the first part, it is true that it peaks in Baloch but even they are still far from 100% Iran_Neolithic. So it peaking among them compared to other modern populations doesn't make Baloch a good physical representation of this component. Since they still have significant unrelated admixture from different sources. Be it South Eurasian/ASI like ancestry, be it some Steppe or even Arabic and especially among the Makrani, there is a significant African admixture. And yet the Makrani are the second or third best fit for Iran_Neolithic going by peak percentages. Also geography plays a role.
I can imagine that some Iranian_Farmers looked more like Balochis based on pigmentation other might have looked different as we also see these differences even between Greece and Anatolian Neolithic, despite identical DNA.
There is no good reference point for how Iranian_Farmers looked like.
The only reconstruction of Iranian Neolithic sample I have is this from a 7000 year old woman
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/19/14/29C72C5200000578-0-image-a-69_1434720902863.jpg
Trouble
09-09-2020, 12:08 AM
Is that steppe ancestry normal for average Iranians?
I think they get around that amount, yeah. However it’s geographically dependent, those in the northeastern sections of Iran will get a lot more steppe than those from the southwest.
Hamilcar
09-09-2020, 12:17 AM
I thought iranians had way more euro ancestry than this, interesting
I thought iranians had way more euro ancestry than this, interesting
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.4036% / 0.01403568
39.8 Iran_Neolithic
28.8 Early_European_Farmer
17.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
7.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
3.0 Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
2.8 Ancient_Dravidian
0.4 Ancient_American
I think this is quite a lot considering their geographical position
Trouble
09-09-2020, 08:29 AM
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.4036% / 0.01403568
39.8 Iran_Neolithic
28.8 Early_European_Farmer
17.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
7.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
3.0 Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
2.8 Ancient_Dravidian
0.4 Ancient_American
I think this is quite a lot considering their geographical position
Not really, forget about the EEF there because it’s widespread across the MENA region and it’s not “European” per se. It, along with WHG and steppe created Europeans, but Europeans are not responsible for relaying most of that ANF/EEF to Iranians which is just autochthonous to the region. The steppe pastoralist ancestry is a different case because it did indeed come from ancestors of eventual European ancestry(Indo Iranian speakers like Sintashta and such).
Moje ime
09-09-2020, 03:21 PM
I thought iranians had way more euro ancestry than this, interesting
Iranians are not Europeans and not Christians.
Iranians are not Europeans and not Christians.
Still whiter than Borealis who is the brownest member on this forum xD
Trouble
09-09-2020, 04:51 PM
Still whiter than Borealis who is the brownest member on this forum xD
I have a 7-8% steppe some users has none
I have a 7-8% steppe some users has none
Cool, you can return to Russia, at least your 7-8% can. :swl
Are you Gujarati?
Trouble
09-09-2020, 05:13 PM
Cool, you can return to Russia, at least your 7-8% can. :swl
Are you Gujarati?
No
No
Are you even Indo-Aryan, bro?
Trouble
09-09-2020, 08:59 PM
Are you even Indo-Aryan, bro?
No
No
Just a Dravidian farmer.
Trouble
09-09-2020, 09:15 PM
Just a Dravidian farmer.
Not even that would be thambi.
Not even that would be thambi.
Then what in the fuck are you, son?
Trouble
09-09-2020, 11:53 PM
Then what in the fuck are you, son?
Austroloid with some steppe
Austroloid with some steppe
Nah, don't bullshit me. You're just an Indian teenager living in America. There is no such ethnicity - Australoid with some Steppe. Thambi is ca. 40% West Eurasian and he is almost zero Steppe.
Token
09-10-2020, 02:43 PM
Disappointing steppe levels, Zarathustra would score 3x more.
Babak
09-15-2020, 09:05 PM
Iranians are not Europeans and not Christians.
Right, but armenians and assyrians are dominantly christian with a native genetic background.
Disappointing steppe levels, Zarathustra would score 3x more.
Yeah. We probably have a sample that represents what Zarathustra looked like. An Iron Age, R1a-Z93 sample from Turkmenistan.
Target: TKM_IA
Distance: 2.3353% / 0.02335330
54.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
45.8 UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA
Half Steppe, half BMAC.
Though to be fair modern day Zoroastrians derive a large part of their genome from this sample.
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.1404% / 0.01140417
37.4 TKM_IA
28.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
28.0 SYR_Ebla_EMBA
6.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
Token
09-15-2020, 09:46 PM
Yeah. We probably have a sample that represents what Zarathustra looked like. An Iron Age, R1a-Z93 sample from Turkmenistan.
Target: TKM_IA
Distance: 2.3353% / 0.02335330
54.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
45.8 UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA
Half Steppe, half BMAC.
Though to be fair modern day Zoroastriana derive a large part of their genome from this sample.
Target: Iranian_Zoroastrian
Distance: 1.1404% / 0.01140417
37.4 TKM_IA
28.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
28.0 SYR_Ebla_EMBA
6.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
It is at least that much. The authority in Zoroastrianism Mary Boyce places his homeland in the Kazakh steppe, around the time of Sintashta.
It is at least that much. The authority in Zoroastrianism Mary Boyce places his homeland in the Kazakh steppe, around the time of Sintashta.
I agree her theory sounds the most logical one but maybe not on the Kazakh steppe that late, probably Turkmenistan-Afghanistan IMO.
Steppe pastoralists looked like this ?
[img]https://i.imgur.com/R25w4Dt.jpg
Tajikistani football/soccer player Ehson Panjshanbe, born in Rushon district, Badakhshan
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXxVL2fXgAEDMrp.jpg
Target: Tajik_Rushan
Distance: 1.7657% / 0.01765718
49.8 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
30.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
11.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
7.6 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave
A whopping 50% Andronovo (KAZ_Aktogai is purely Andronovo, similar to Bronze Age samples from as far West as Poland and Czechia).
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