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View Full Version : Do Saamis have the least Neolithic among Europeans? They have even less than Mari and Udmurts?



Maguzanci
04-15-2020, 02:38 PM
They seem to have even less than Maris, Udmurts which is very surprising to me. This is because the latter ought to have less Neolithic Farmer than Saamis as they are geographically farther from Europe and much closer to Siberia than the former.

I use HUN_Koros_N to represent Neolithic Farmer admixture in these runs. It seems that Neolithic Farmer ancestry varied upon the proxy used to represent the Steppe ancestry. Like when RUS_Progress_EN was used, the Saami and Mari score around 10.83-11.67% and 14.17% Neolithic admixture

"sample": "Saami:Average",
"fit": 6.0937,
"RUS_Progress_En": 45,
"Nganassan": 24.17,
"WHG": 20,
"HUN_Koros_N": 10.83,

"sample": "Mari:Average",
"fit": 11.7716,
"RUS_Progress_En": 46.67,
"Nganassan": 29.17,
"HUN_Koros_N": 14.17,
"WHG": 10,

"sample": "Udmurt:Average",
"fit": 5.5068,
"RUS_Progress_En": 53.33,
"Nganassan": 23.33,
"HUN_Koros_N": 15,
"WHG": 8.33,

but when RUS_Afanasievo is utilized, the Saami and Mari exhibited approximately 7.5% and 10% Neolithic admixture:

"sample": "Saami:Average",
"fit": 5.3827,
"RUS_Afanasievo": 54.17,
"Nganassan": 23.33,
"WHG": 15,
"HUN_Koros_N": 7.5,

"sample": "Mari:Average",
"fit": 11.3632,
"RUS_Afanasievo": 55,
"Nganassan": 28.33,
"HUN_Koros_N": 10,
"WHG": 6.67,

"sample": "Udmurt:Average",
"fit": 4.8121,
"RUS_Afanasievo": 64.17,
"Nganassan": 22.5,
"HUN_Koros_N": 10,
"WHG": 3.33,

I wonder what is the difference behind this? I thought that there is an inverse relationship that the higher Mongoloid (Nganassan) affinity a European group has, the lower Neolithic they would have. But it seems to not be the case for the Saami and Mari as the latter apparently possessed more farmer admixture than the former.

Why is this?

Ülev
04-15-2020, 02:44 PM
we have to ask Laag, and unban him

Maguzanci
04-15-2020, 02:52 PM
bump

Ymyyakhtakh
04-15-2020, 04:08 PM
They seem to have even less than Maris, Udmurts which is very surprising to me. This is because the latter ought to have less Neolithic Farmer than Saamis as they are geographically farther from Europe and much closer to Siberia than the former.

Maris and Udmurts are native to the Volga Basin, which is an agricultural region where most of Russia's population is concentrated today:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Volgarivermap.png/300px-Volgarivermap.png

Circumpolar Mongoloid peoples have lived in Europe long before Nenetses. Before Nenetses, a Samoyedic people called Sikhirtya lived only tens of kilometers away from what is even today Kola Saami area (https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/booksRu/A_Maloletko_Dr_narody_sibiri_5.pdf, Google translation):


Nenets from Dolgoshelje (the tundra to the west of the lower geographic course of the Mezen river in the Urals) consider themselves the descendants of Sikhirtya (Khomich JI.B., 1970). Nenka P.A. Khanzerova, who lived in 1968 on the Kanin Peninsula, reported that her grandfather and grandmother also considered themselves descendants of Sikhirtya. [...]

P.-M. Lamartinier in the book "Traveling to the North Country", published in 1671, provides a description of the dwellings of the Borandays [борандайцев], the indigenous inhabitants of the Mezen tundra. Borandays lived in huts that were very carefully made of fish (cetaceans? - A.M.) bones. The huts were also covered with fish bones, mossed on top and lined around turf so good that no wind can penetrate inside otherwise both through doors arranged like a furnace mouth, and through a roof in which a window or hole is arranged through which light penetrates (Vasiliev V.I., 1970, p. 153).

https://i.imgur.com/5SzvB0u.png

Here the black line denotes the eastern boundary of Saami toponyms (http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/Pven.html):

http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/Pven.jpg

Maguzanci
04-15-2020, 05:25 PM
bump