23andMe Anatolian: is it "native" or Turkic/Central Asian?

[Dr_Maul]

Basically the title. Is the Anatolian category representing Turk(Turcoman/Oghuz) Genetics, ""Native"" (I'm using this term subjectively) like Hittite, Armenian etc. or is it both combined but mostly Oghuz(Similar to modern population)? I am curious about this because it is almost unreflected on my personal GEDmatch

[Halgurd]

I think its based on Turkish population.

[Mejgusu]

Basically the title. Is the Anatolian category representing Turk(Turcoman/Oghuz) Genetics, ""Native"" (I'm using this term subjectively) like Hittite, Armenian etc. or is it both combined but mostly Oghuz(Similar to modern population)? I am curious about this because it is almost unreflected on my personal GEDmatch

Also i asked that always. I think its just the anatolian turks: Turkics+ caucasian/balkan mix.

[Fedora]

Its Anatolian Turks. Many Turks get 90%++ Anatolian

[Seya]

anatolian means anatolian and it has no central asian

[Voskos]

Anatolian Turks, both native converts and oghuz mixlings.

[Dr_Maul]

anatolian means anatolian and it has no central asian

So do you think it is closer to other west asians like Armenians or Kurds or is it closer to Central Asian?

[Mejgusu]

anatolian means anatolian and it has no central asian

But in this case it means anatolian turks.

[Marmara]

Anatolian on 23andme is Anatolian Turk. Armenian genetics are presented on Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian section.

[Dr_Maul]

Anatolian on 23andme is Anatolian Turk. Armenian genetics are presented on Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian section.

Ok, thanks. Do you think that it is closer to the Central Asian section or the Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian section?

[Bosniensis]

Anatolian on 23andme is Anatolian Turk. Armenian genetics are presented on Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian section.

Who are Anatolian Syrians, their numbers were numerous before Turkish arrival, how are they presented?

[Mejgusu]

Who are Anatolian Syrians, their numbers were numerous before Turkish arrival, how are they presented?

What? Do you mean assyrians of southeast? There existed until early 20th century. Most of them islamized and assimilated into arabs, kurds, armenians and southeastern turks.

[Marmara]

Ok, thanks. Do you think that it is closer to the Central Asian section or the Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian section?

The latter.

[Sora]

I think it's a mixture of both ancient Anatolian & Oghuz ancestries. Because many Turks are shown as 1%-7% Central & South Asian + East Asian & Native American, and I guess it's hidden under Anatolian section

[Marmara]

Who are Anatolian Syrians, their numbers were numerous before Turkish arrival, how are they presented?

What is an Anatolian Syrian? Syria was a Geographic name for the Levant region, bordering Anatolia. There were Anatolians, and there were Syrians, there were no "Anatolian Syrians"

[Bosniensis]

What? Do you mean assyrians of southeast? There existed until early 20th century. Most of them islamized and assimilated into arabs, kurds, armenians and southeastern turks.

i don't know what you mean, modern Assyrians and Syrians have been invented as nations in the last 150 years. Nations did not exist 200 years go.

All Syrians are Syrians, Hittite, Sumer, Iraq, Syria etc...

Anatolia was full of Syrians, Persians (Iranics) and Greeks.

I am asking, how do they identify SYRIANS along with IRANICS.

[Bosniensis]

What is an Anatolian Syrian? Syria was a Geographic name for the Levant region, bordering Anatolia. There were Anatolians, and there were Syrians, there were no "Anatolian Syrians"

hahahah

majority of Anatolia was made of Syrian people.

They lived along with Iranic and Greek people.

Majority converted to Christianity like Leo the Isaurian (Syrian)

Syrian dominated regions next to Greek dominated reigons:

https://balladeer.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/hittite-empire1.png

Greeks lived in Nicomedia, Constantinople and West Cast Anatolia, Trebizond etc..

That's why I am asking who are Syrians among the Turks and Iranics in Autosomal

[Marmara]

hahahah

majority of Anatolia was made of Syrian people.

They lived along with Iranic and Greek people.

Majority converted to Christianity like Leo the Isaurian (Syrian)

Syrian dominated regions next to Greek dominated reigons:

https://balladeer.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/hittite-empire1.png

Greeks lived in Nicomedia, Constantinople and West Cast Anatolia, Trebizond etc..

What is the connection between Hittites and Syrians? Hitties were an Indo-European people, arrived to Anatolia from North (Either Caucasus or Balkans), Syria was inhabited by Semitic peoples such as Assyrians and Phoenicians. These two groups had nothing in common.

[Kaspias]

Modern Turkish people from Western Anatolia

[Dr_Maul]

Ok, lemme say why I am asking this. On 23andMe, I am 4.2% Anatolian. Assuming it is Turkic, which it probably is, combined with my 2.3% Central Asian it makes me about 6.5% Turkic. Other than that, I have 3.9% Arab which is broken down into 1.1% Peninsular, 1.2% Levantine and the rest is broadly. Basically, I have almost double Turk percentage than Semitic. However when I GEDMatch it always shifts me towards Semitic populations rather than Turkic populations. Here are some examples

Dodecad K12b
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.4% Iranians (Behar) + 12.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.49
2 93.2% Iranians (Behar) + 6.8% Moroccan (Dodecad) @ 2.56
3 92.2% Iranians (Behar) + 7.8% Algerian (Dodecad) @ 2.62
4 87.5% Iranians (Behar) + 12.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.79
5 92.9% Iranians (Behar) + 7.1% Canarias (1000Genomes) @ 2.8

Gedrosia K12
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.3% Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + 14.7% Balochi @ 3.44
2 84.7% Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + 15.3% Makrani @ 3.56
3 87.2% Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + 12.8% Brahui @ 3.7
4 80% Iraqi_Chaldeans + 20% Makrani @ 4.77
5 80.8% Iraqi_Chaldeans + 19.2% Balochi @ 4.81

MDLP K23b
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.6% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) + 17.4% Kalash ( ) @ 6.08
2 78.8% Iranian_Jew ( ) + 21.2% Kalash ( ) @ 6.08
3 80.6% Kurd_Jew ( ) + 19.4% Kalash ( ) @ 6.16
4 70.5% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) + 29.5% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 6.18
5 93.2% Kurd_East ( ) + 6.8% Mozabite ( ) @ 6.19

[Mejgusu]

i don't know what you mean, modern Assyrians and Syrians have been invented as nations in the last 150 years. Nations did not exist 200 years go.

All Syrians are Syrians, Hittite, Sumer, Iraq, Syria etc...

Anatolia was full of Syrians, Persians (Iranics) and Greeks.

I am asking, how do they identify SYRIANS along with IRANICS.

:picard2:

What the hell, we discuss what anatolian means and you wanna discuss sth different. I read what your post here and i think someone definitely sewn uped ur ass, because of that its only shit what you here say. sorry bro. Btw anatolia was many time under persian rule, but there werent iranic settlements until late byzantine era. Coastal: greeks, eastern mountains caucasian/armenian, southeast aramaic, assyrian, arabaian and jewish.

[Seya]

So do you think it is closer to other west asians like Armenians or Kurds or is it closer to Central Asian?

central asia has a separate category. there are greek islanders with 30-40% west asia. that's definitely native anatolian and it has nothing to do with central asia

[Bosniensis]

What is the connection between Hittites and Syrians? Hitties were an Indo-European people, arrived to Anatolia from North (Either Caucasus or Balkans), Syria was inhabited by Semitic peoples such as Assyrians and Phoenicians. These two groups had nothing in common.

Who said that?

Hahahahah

Hatti and Hittites had Syrian Gods and Deities.. Indo Euroepans ..

A'as – god of wisdom, derived from the Mesopotamian god Ea (Enki)
Aduntarri - the diviner, chthonic.
Alalus – primordial entity.
Amunki - chthonic.
Anzili/Enzili – consort of a weather god; invoked to aid in childbirth.
Apaliunas – tutelary deity of the city of Wilusa.
Āpi - chthonic.

Those Gods were worshiped in Middle East.

"Indo Europeans"

ROFL.

There is no point in leading any form of discussion when we have Political History in Schools.

Is there anything that isn't Indo-European?

Who ever said that is clinically insane and sick.

[Kaspias]

central asia has a separate category. there are greek islanders with 30-40% west asia. that's definitely native anatolian and it has nothing to do with central asia

I got 45% Anatolia and only 1% Central Asia

I have 9.3% East Eurasian, I have no ancestor from Anatolia

[Thracian]

Anatolian Turks+Balkan Turks, that's why some Non Turkish Balkan people also get Anatolia. It was probably only Anatolian Turks in previous version.

[Kaspias]

Anatolian Turks+Balkan Turks, that's why some Non Turkish Balkan people also get Anatolia. It was probably only Anatolian Turks in previous version.

+

They didn't even realize Balkan Turks who live in Western Turkey.

[Marmara]

Who said that?

Hahahahah

Hatti and Hittites had Syrian Gods and Deities.. Indo Euroepans ..

A'as – god of wisdom, derived from the Mesopotamian god Ea (Enki)
Aduntarri - the diviner, chthonic.
Alalus – primordial entity.
Amunki - chthonic.
Anzili/Enzili – consort of a weather god; invoked to aid in childbirth.
Apaliunas – tutelary deity of the city of Wilusa.
Āpi - chthonic.

Those Gods were worshiped in Middle East.

"Indo Europeans"

ROFL.

There is no point in leading any form of discussion when we have Political History in Schools.

Is there anything that isn't Indo-European?

Who ever said that is clinically insane and sick.

Autist, they kept records. Hittite language is decyphered, it was an Indo-European language. Hitties had the tradition of importing new gods to their pantheon from conquered peoples, which included Middle Eastern gods. They worshipped thousands of deities.

[Halgurd]

Interesting how you score more Anatolian than me though.

I score only 0.1% Anatolian on 23andme. Basically I have 0 genetic affinity with Turks then.

[Seya]

I got 45% Anatolia and only 1% Central Asia

I have 9.3% East Eurasian, I have no ancestor from Anatolia

so what? the asian i get on gedmatch is nowhere near the one i got from 23andme because it's much older

[Mejgusu]

Autist, they kept records. Hittite language is decyphered, it was an Indo-European language. Hitties had the tradition of importing new gods to their pantheon from conquered peoples, which included Middle Eastern gods. They worshipped thousands of deities.

Gercekten dayaklik bu herif:picard2:

[Thracian]

+

They didn't even realize Balkan Turks who live in Western Turkey.

Yeah, and I also think they used some mixed Bosniak samples. Because people like Bosniensis also get some West Asia.

[Dr_Maul]

Interesting how you score more Anatolian than me though.

I score only 0.1% Anatolian on 23andme. Basically I have 0 genetic affinity with Turks then.

According to 23andMe, all of my non Iranian (4.2% Anatolian, 3.9% Semitic, 2.3% South asian, 1% North Indian) entered my gene pool at the exact same time period (1750-1800) so yeah, you can thank that one trader or whatever for fucking up my homogenous Persian dna lol... although I think it would have been better if I had at least 15% Turk so that I could feel more connected

[Kaspias]

so what? the asian i get on gedmatch is nowhere near the one i got from 23andme because it's much older

https://i.ibb.co/FbpH4Tj/IMG-20200417-012534.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NnhfnZM/IMG-20200417-012542.jpg

[Kaspias]

Yeah, and I also think they used some mixed Bosniak samples. Because people like Bosniensis also get some West Asia.

Yeah, I just saw they don't even have only their own private samples but also 1000genomes dataset. There should be non-Turks too. Bosniensis is a good example, he gets 4 regions in Turkey.

They claim to use IBD but it rarely works in our case. Perhaps they do not care much about Balkans and Turkey.

[Bosniensis]

Autist, they kept records. Hittite language is decyphered, it was an Indo-European language. Hitties had the tradition of importing new gods to their pantheon from conquered peoples, which included Middle Eastern gods. They worshipped thousands of deities.

it sounds Indo-European cause Russians, Germans have already appropriated TONS of non-indo-european languages.

Do you really think that Leo the Syrian from Anatolia was related to Russians and Germanics?

Hittites were YELLOW tanned as all Syrians all, SMALL.

The only reason Indo Europeans claim them because they themselves have no history.

[Seya]

https://i.ibb.co/FbpH4Tj/IMG-20200417-012534.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NnhfnZM/IMG-20200417-012542.jpg

well 23andme categories are based on modern populations, the only inhabitants of modern anatolia are turks. central asia one is based on central asian populations. so if they could isolate on some turks a few % of central asia it means the rest is just native anatolian. if we would have only east asia and anatolia then you could speculate but there is a clear section for central asia on 23andme.

[El_Abominacion]

It’s a native Anatolian signature

[Thracian]

Yeah, I just saw they don't even have only their own private samples but also 1000genomes dataset. There should be non-Turks too. Bosniensis is a good example, he gets 4 regions in Turkey.

They claim to use IBD but it rarely works in our case. Perhaps they do not care much about Balkans and Turkey.

They clearly don't. Some South Slavs get 100% Balkan but some other also get some East European. They even do not care about history. the same goes for Anatolia, Anatolian Turks are partly Anatolian and partly Turkic - or maybe Iranic etc...- but they do not show us.

[Kaspias]

well 23andme categories are based on modern populations, the only inhabitants of modern anatolia are turks. central asia one is based on central asian populations. so if they could isolate on some turks a few % of central asia it means the rest is just native anatolian. if we would have only east asia and anatolia then you could speculate but there is a clear section for central asia on 23andme.


Central Asia have less sample than Western Anatolia despite it's regional coverage is more than Anatolia. Not to mention South Asia is also inside of the Central Asia. It is not that clear as you think. Also, that a few Turkic is between 30% and 50% in ethnic Turks.

For the Turks who live in the West of the Caspian Sea, Western Turks always will be more representative with such samples. I have Crimean Tatar matches who score around 30% Anatolia beside scoring Central Asian. Algorithm prefers it for one reason.

[Voskos]

Doesn't really matter what it is tbh. You score anatolian it means you're closest to modern Turks.

[Mejgusu]

well 23andme categories are based on modern populations, the only inhabitants of modern anatolia are turks. central asia one is based on central asian populations. so if they could isolate on some turks a few % of central asia it means the rest is just native anatolian. if we would have only east asia and anatolia then you could speculate but there is a clear section for central asia on 23andme.

In my knowledge anatolia were also diverse, by ages and by people. Thats like if you say iranian means preiranic people, because Iranians in iran are also different than the central asian iranians or ancient steppe iranians. But i means the modern iranians, like modern anatolian turks is meant when they say anatolian: Turkic influenced Westasians.

[Kaspias]

They clearly don't. Some South Slavs get 100% Balkan but some other also get some East European. They even do not care about history. the same goes for Anatolia, Anatolian Turks are partly Anatolian and partly Turkic - or maybe Iranic etc...- but they do not show us.

I wrote a detailed feedback to them about the case in the past. We will see if they care or not.

[Rabbit Hole]

Why don't they just name Anatolian admixture as West Asian

The Levantines with Anatolian only reflect Bronze Age dna there I can't believe they don't mention it. This is why I hate using vague terms they should label Anatolian Hittite

Levantine/North Africa is a joke too. North Africans never historically had the same gene pool as Levantines post Bronze or Iron Age.

[Seya]

Central Asia have less sample than Western Anatolia despite it's regional coverage is more than Anatolia. Not to mention South Asia is also inside of the Central Asia. It is not that clear as you think. Also, that a few Turkic is between 30% and 50% in ethnic Turks.

For the Turks who live in the West of the Caspian Sea, Western Turks always will be more representative with such samples. I have Crimean Tatar matches who score around 30% Anatolia beside scoring Central Asian. Algorithm prefers it for one reason.

we know for a fact that greeks are 0% asian and especially the islander ones. how do you explain the high score of west asia/anatolia in them if this component hides central asian DNA?

[Kaspias]

we know for a fact that greeks are 0% asian and especially the islander ones. how do you explain the high score of west asia/anatolia in them if this component hides central asian DNA?

I already gave the answer. There are Yörüks, regular Western Turks, Converts, Balkan Turks, Circassians, Bosniaks, Albanians, Pomaks and Kurds too.

You get the one which you need in your admixture balance. This is just a basic algorithm.

[Dr_Maul]

Why don't they just name Anatolian admixture as West Asian

The Levantines with Anatolian only reflect Bronze Age dna there I can't believe they don't mention it. This is why I hate using vague terms they should label Anatolian Hittite

Levantine/North Africa is a joke too. North Africans never historically had the same gene pool as Levantines post Bronze or Iron Age.

I think the North Africa / Levant Connection is a Phoenician thing

[Rabbit Hole]

I think the North Africa / Levant Connection is a Phoenician thing

Then it would still include Anatolian during the early stages the Canaanites were Phoe-Canaanite.

You know I know a guy from Italy and he told me he had Phoenician ancestors from the Levant and the Carthage and when I asked him how could he come to such a absurd conclusion he spoke about how Rome freed slaves from those regions. He was very insistant this was his ancestry but I can't argue with people. https://phoenicia.org/hittitephoenicians.html

What happened is that after the Great Flood ( of Sumer ) those Levantines of Anatolian or partial Anatolian descent fled the coastal parts there to populate Coastal North Africa. If they insist in lumping Levantine/North Africa together, they could at least use the terms ''coastal Levant'' and ''Coastal North Africa'' ( Red Sea )

[Zoro]

https://i.ibb.co/FbpH4Tj/IMG-20200417-012534.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NnhfnZM/IMG-20200417-012542.jpg

You’re correct the Anatolian category includes E. Asian since E. Asian is part of the genome of those Turkish references they use. Also don’t forget 23andme publicly says in their methodology that they zero out minor admixture which means if the segments they look at are 40% E. Asian and 60% W. Asian they assign the segment 100% W. Asian. When they do this they obviously get rid of your E. Asian.

Obviously you would not use your 23andme result if you are a European or W. Asian or S.Asian and are trying to see how much E. Asian you have.

[Ion Basescul]

anatolian means anatolian and it has no central asian

It has Central Asian within it, because it is based on modern Turkish references and not ancient Hittites or other Anatolians that lack it.
Same applies to Finnish, which includes up to 10% Siberian and Eastern Euro, which covers the amount in Russians.

[Jana]

It's a mix of both, based on modern Turks for the most part.

[Zoro]

You’re correct the Anatolian category includes E. Asian since E. Asian is part of the genome of those Turkish references they use. Also don’t forget 23andme publicly says in their methodology that they zero out minor admixture which means if the segments they look at are 40% E. Asian and 60% W. Asian they assign the segment 100% W. Asian. When they do this they obviously get rid of your E. Asian.

Obviously you would not use your 23andme result if you are a European or W. Asian or S.Asian and are trying to see how much E. Asian you have.

Even the W. Asian has E. Asian, European, and S. Asian included because it is based on modern iranians and other references and those references already have some E. Asian, S.Asian and European. The only thing 23andme is good for is the raw data or if you’re an adoptee and have no idea what part of the world your real parents are from

[Deniz]

anatolian means anatolian and it has no central asian

Come onnnn Seya.Have you got Anatolian score in 23andme?Believe me we can create better algorithm for Balkan and Anatolian section.Totally disappointment for us.

[waam]

I think it's been said enough on this 6 page thread already but since Turks barely ever score any separate Asian there has to be Asian admixture in the Anatolian reference. Funny though because I was thinking about it too and then saw this thread lol.

Another thing that brought it to my mind though is the fact North Caucasians score predominantly Anatolian and not ICM, so it made sense to me the Asian admixture North Caucasians have would be absorbed into the Anatolian category and that's why they would score a pretty large amount of that (because it's essentially a mixture of West Asian + Mongoloid, something both groups have in common).

[Aileron]

Us i guess

[altaic]

https://i.ibb.co/kJvqvGr/dad-k12b-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/jzb0mG8/mum-dodecad-k12b-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/P4Wg6bb/Inkedmy-dodecad-k12b-LI.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/tB64yTs/dad-and-me-23andme-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VVhRyJY/mum-and-me-23andme-LI.jpg

As expected, we can see that Central Asia has way stronger impact on East Eurasia on GEDMatch. Based on my calculation, it looks like 10% Anatolia is kind of equivalent to 0.5% Central Asia in terms of East Eurasian affect on GEDMatch. (1:20 ratio)

Let`s use 1:20 ration on this 2 component
Mum (15% Anatolian=0.75% Central Asian) = 0.75% Central Asian + 0.3% Broadly East Asian = 2.90% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian
Me (18% Anatolian=0.9% Central Asian) = 0.9% Central Asian + 0.8% Broadly East Asian = 3.70% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian
Dad (5% Anatolian=0.25% Central Asian plus 0.8% Central Asian) = 1.05% Central Asian + 0.4% Broadly East Asian = 3.90% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian

Let`s also include Kaspias`s result (with his permission)
Kaspias (45% Anatolian=2.25% Central Asian plus 1.8% Central Asian) = 4.05% Central Asian + 0.1% Broadly East Asian = ~10-11% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian

Just an assumption for sure but it relatively correlates.

[Kaspias]

https://i.ibb.co/kJvqvGr/dad-k12b-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/jzb0mG8/mum-dodecad-k12b-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/P4Wg6bb/Inkedmy-dodecad-k12b-LI.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/tB64yTs/dad-and-me-23andme-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VVhRyJY/mum-and-me-23andme-LI.jpg

As expected, we can see that Central Asia has way stronger impact on East Eurasia on GEDMatch. Based on my calculation, it looks like 10% Anatolia is kind of equivalent to 0.5% Central Asia in terms of East Eurasian affect on GEDMatch. (1:20 ratio)

Let`s use 1:20 ration on this 2 component
Mum (15% Anatolian=0.75% Central Asian) = 0.75% Central Asian + 0.3% Broadly East Asian = 2.90% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian
Me (18% Anatolian=0.9% Central Asian) = 0.9% Central Asian + 0.8% Broadly East Asian = 3.70% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian
Dad (5% Anatolian=0.25% Central Asian plus 0.8% Central Asian) = 1.05% Central Asian + 0.4% Broadly East Asian = 3.90% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian

Let`s also include Kaspias`s result (with his permission)
Kaspias (45% Anatolian=2.25% Central Asian plus 1.8% Central Asian) = 4.05% Central Asian + 0.1% Broadly East Asian = ~10-11% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian

Just an assumption for sure but it relatively correlates.

https://i.ibb.co/yBK2Yjw/kaspiasdodecad-horz.jpg

[altaic]

Basically the title. Is the Anatolian category representing Turk(Turcoman/Oghuz) Genetics, ""Native"" (I'm using this term subjectively) like Hittite, Armenian etc. or is it both combined but mostly Oghuz(Similar to modern population)? I am curious about this because it is almost unreflected on my personal GEDmatch

23andme definition from their website is;

'Anatolia, a fertile peninsula above the eastern Mediterranean, has served as a genetic bridge between Asia and Europe for over 40,000 years. Early Anatolian farmers laid the groundwork for powerful civilizations like the Bronze Age Hittite Empire, followed by centuries of Persian, Greek, and Roman rule. The Eastern Roman Empire, Byzantium, survived in various forms until falling in the 15th century to the Ottoman Turks, who introduced a Central Asian-like genetic signature.
The Anatolian population has Turkey (western provinces) as a recent ancestor location.'

In my opinion, there is slight Turkic affect on the Anatolian component that increases your East Eurasian component on GEDMatch

[Thracian]

https://i.ibb.co/kJvqvGr/dad-k12b-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/jzb0mG8/mum-dodecad-k12b-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/P4Wg6bb/Inkedmy-dodecad-k12b-LI.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/tB64yTs/dad-and-me-23andme-LI.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VVhRyJY/mum-and-me-23andme-LI.jpg

As expected, we can see that Central Asia has way stronger impact on East Eurasia on GEDMatch. Based on my calculation, it looks like 10% Anatolia is kind of equivalent to 0.5% Central Asia in terms of East Eurasian affect on GEDMatch. (1:20 ratio)

Let`s use 1:20 ration on this 2 component
Mum (15% Anatolian=0.75% Central Asian) = 0.75% Central Asian + 0.3% Broadly East Asian = 2.90% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian
Me (18% Anatolian=0.9% Central Asian) = 0.9% Central Asian + 0.8% Broadly East Asian = 3.70% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian
Dad (5% Anatolian=0.25% Central Asian plus 0.8% Central Asian) = 1.05% Central Asian + 0.4% Broadly East Asian = 3.90% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian

Let`s also include Kaspias`s result (with his permission)
Kaspias (45% Anatolian=2.25% Central Asian plus 1.8% Central Asian) = 4.05% Central Asian + 0.1% Broadly East Asian = ~10-11% Dodecad k12b East Eurasian

Just an assumption for sure but it relatively correlates.

I am not sure but most likely Iranian, Caucasian and Mesopotamian samples have East Eurasian admixture as well.

[Demhat]

It's based on the less East Eurasian admixed Turkish samples. So some Turks will still show few.percentages of East Eurasian.

I assume Anatolian cluster has something like 3-4% East Eurasian. That's only an assumption though

[Demhat]

People need to understand the purpose of these company calculators. They are not their to show you, your ancient propotions. They are predominantly made for Europeans to be able to track their more recent ancestry. Their West Asia is based on Iranian Plateau, South Caucasus and East Anatolian sples their Anatolian on Centeal and West Anatolian samples.

[Maintenance]

Anatolian does not include asian.

[Zoro]

Anatolian does not include asian.


Did you even read what I and the other 3 people said why it must include E. Asian ?

Why do you think Turks hardly score any E. Asian on 23andme? Is it because they don't have E. Asian?

23andme says they use Western Turks for their Anatolian references. Supposing your relative is one of those references and let's say he has 20% E. Asian measured against Neolithic farmer references.

You come along and test with 23andme and you get 100% Anatolian because they used one of your relatives as one of those Anatolian references. Does than mean you have 0% E. Asian knowing that your relative is 20% E. Asian?

[Maintenance]

Did you even read what I and the other 3 people said why it must include E. Asian ?

Why do you think Turks hardly score any E. Asian on 23andme? Is it because they don't have E. Asian?

23andme says they use Western Turks for their Anatolian references. Supposing your relative is one of those references and let's say he has 20% E. Asian measured against Neolithic farmer references.

You come along and test with 23andme and you get 100% Anatolian because they used one of your relatives as one of those Anatolian references. Does than mean you have 0% E. Asian knowing that your relative is 20% E. Asian?

100% anatolian scores on 23andme ran on gedmatch showing no asian traces above euro average debunk all the claims posted here with a bunch of mixed results

[Zoro]

100% anatolian scores on 23andme ran on gedmatch showing no asian traces above euro average debunk all the claims posted here with a bunch of mixed results

Are you saying someone said their 23andme was 100% and claimed their Gedmatch showed no E. Asian!

[Maintenance]

Are you saying someone said their 23andme was 100% and claimed their Gedmatch showed no E. Asian!

Yes, a turkish user on this forum, the only real turk who actually took a dna test.

[Pine]

I score Anatolian on 23andMe.

[Zoro]

Yes, a turkish user on this forum, the only real turk who actually took a dna test.

Do you believe everything someone tells you. How do you know that the gedmatch and 23andme are for the same user. I'm sure most of the Turks here have taken 23andme and will tell you they hardly score any E. Asian with the updated 23andme. Which component do you think all their E. Asian is hiding under?

[Maintenance]

Do you believe everything someone tells you. How do you know that the gedmatch and 23andme are for the same user. I'm sure most of the Turks here have taken 23andme and will tell you they hardly score any E. Asian with the updated 23andme. Which component do you think all their E. Asian is hiding under?

0 turks active here have taken a dna test.

And yes i know it was legit 23andme and gedmatch.

There is no asian hiding, either you score it on 23andme as central asian or east asian or you got none, simple as that.

[Seya]

Do you believe everything someone tells you. How do you know that the gedmatch and 23andme are for the same user. I'm sure most of the Turks here have taken 23andme and will tell you they hardly score any E. Asian with the updated 23andme. Which component do you think all their E. Asian is hiding under?

But where is all the asian found in east europeans hidden? They score 100% european and yet quite a lot of east asian or/and siberian on gedmatch.

[Maintenance]

100% anatolian gedmatch

South_Asian -
West_Asian 53.31 Pct
Siberian 0.32 Pct
African -
Southern 31.98 Pct
Atlantic_Baltic 13.60 Pct
East_Asian 0.78

[Ford]

No 23andme category is pure or 'native'.

[TheOldNorth]

Basically the title. Is the Anatolian category representing Turk(Turcoman/Oghuz) Genetics, ""Native"" (I'm using this term subjectively) like Hittite, Armenian etc. or is it both combined but mostly Oghuz(Similar to modern population)? I am curious about this because it is almost unreflected on my personal GEDmatch

Unlikely to be Turkic or else even pure blooded turks would only get around 15%

[Zoro]

But where is all the asian found in east europeans hidden? They score 100% european and yet quite a lot of east asian or/and siberian on gedmatch.


Since E. Asian infiltrated the European genepool hundreds of years ago, it's well integrated into the European genepool especially E. Europeans. Therefore by definition a E. European reference has a few % E. Asian. Therefore anyone matching that E. European reference with 100% has whatever small % E. Asian that E. European reference has.

Same thing with Indians. They used to score 100% S. Asian with 23andme. Does that mean they don't have any E. Asian? Of course not, it's a well known fact that Indians have a ton of E. Eurasian ancestry.

How much E. Asian did you get with 23andme latest update and how much E .Asian do you score with gedmatch calculators?

[Seya]

Since E. Asian infiltrated the European genepool hundreds of years ago, it's well integrated into the European genepool especially E. Europeans. Therefore by definition a E. European reference has a few % E. Asian. Therefore anyone matching that E. European reference with 100% has whatever small % E. Asian that E. European reference has.

Same thing with Indians. They used to score 100% S. Asian with 23andme. Does that mean they don't have any E. Asian? Of course not, it's a well known fact that Indians have a ton of E. Eurasian ancestry.

How much E. Asian did you get with 23andme latest update and how much E .Asian do you score with gedmatch calculators?

true. that's why i think the asian they get on gedmatch is part of the collective gene pool and only the actual "central asia" is indeed turkic central asian dna. some people do get a few %.

[Dr_Maul]

I think I've come to the conclusion that it is a mix of native anatolian (90-90%) and some Turkic on top. This is my K13

1 West_Asian 38.01
2 East_Med 29.44
3 South_Asian 11.39
4 West_Med 6.57
5 Baltic 6.06
6 Red_Sea 5.67
7 Siberian 1.17
8 Northeast_African 0.72
9 Oceanian 0.64
10 Sub-Saharan 0.32

Despite me getting 2.3% Central Asian on 23andMe, I only get 1.17 Siberian on this so I guess even that one is a mixed bag

[El_Abominacion]

I think I've come to the conclusion that it is a mix of native anatolian (90-90%) and some Turkic on top. This is my K13

1 West_Asian 38.01
2 East_Med 29.44
3 South_Asian 11.39
4 West_Med 6.57
5 Baltic 6.06
6 Red_Sea 5.67
7 Siberian 1.17
8 Northeast_African 0.72
9 Oceanian 0.64
10 Sub-Saharan 0.32

Despite me getting 2.3% Central Asian on 23andMe, I only get 1.17 Siberian on this so I guess even that one is a mixed bag

The Central Asian category is quite weird, i'm not even sure what population it's supposed to represent as modern Central Asians are already mixed. On 23andMe my mum scores 4.8% Central Asian, 0.3% Broadly Northern Asian (previously 'Siberian') and 0.1% Broadly EANA but her K13 has her at 1.76 East Asian and 1.12% Siberian

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 23.78
2 South_Asian 22.52
3 West_Asian 17.44
4 Baltic 12.39
5 East_Med 10.18
6 West_Med 7.96
7 Sub-Saharan 2.15
8 East_Asian 1.76
9 Siberian 1.12
10 Amerindian 0.71

[Dr_Maul]

The Central Asian category is quite weird, i'm not even sure what population it's supposed to represent as modern Central Asians are already a mixed bag. On 23andMe my mum scores 4.8% Central Asian, 0.3% Broadly Northern Asian (previously 'Siberian') and 0.1% Broadly EANA but her K13 has her at 1.76 East Asian and 1.12% Siberian

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 23.78
2 South_Asian 22.52
3 West_Asian 17.44
4 Baltic 12.39
5 East_Med 10.18
6 West_Med 7.96
7 Sub-Saharan 2.15
8 East_Asian 1.76
9 Siberian 1.12
10 Amerindian 0.71

The problem with the Central Asian category is that it combines everything from high South Asian Pashtuns to Mongolic Kyrgyzs to Iranic Tajiks. And unless it tells you directly where you are from, you can never know which one of those you are. This is why GEDMatch is useful, because I assume my Central Asian comes from a more Iranic region due to my very low Siberian and elevated South Asian

[Rabbit Hole]

The problem with the Central Asian category is that it combines everything from high South Asian Pashtuns to Mongolic Kyrgyzs to Iranic Tajiks. And unless it tells you directly where you are from, you can never know which one of those you are. This is why GEDMatch is useful, because I assume my Central Asian comes from a more Iranic region due to my very low Siberian and elevated South Asian

They do the same with all those lumped cats, that's why people need to do Ged match and haplogroup tests

[Babak]

I think I've come to the conclusion that it is a mix of native anatolian (90-90%) and some Turkic on top. This is my K13

1 West_Asian 38.01
2 East_Med 29.44
3 South_Asian 11.39
4 West_Med 6.57
5 Baltic 6.06
6 Red_Sea 5.67
7 Siberian 1.17
8 Northeast_African 0.72
9 Oceanian 0.64
10 Sub-Saharan 0.32

Despite me getting 2.3% Central Asian on 23andMe, I only get 1.17 Siberian on this so I guess even that one is a mixed bag

Dude honestly you got some interesting results. Even though your mom is from the coastal parts of Iran, you still score a good amount of Siberian and original iranic ancestry.

[Demhat]

Even the W. Asian has E. Asian, European, and S. Asian included because it is based on modern iranians and other references and those references already have some E. Asian, S.Asian and European. The only thing 23andme is good for is the raw data or if you’re an adoptee and have no idea what part of the world your real parents are from

Just to add, the large majority of what we call here "South Asian" is most probably Iranian_Neolithic DNA. Also majority of the "South Asian" that pops up in Western Asians is Iranian_Neolithic that get's caught as "South Asian" due to some Indian samples being used as 100% "unadmixed" proxies.

Most of the "European" DNA is very likely Anatolian_Neolithic DNA in those European samples which are used as unadmixed proxies for the respective European regions. Only a very small percentage of it is really backmigration.

I am generally not a fan of talking about "admixture" in the case of these components. It makes much mroe sense to talk about shared segments of genes depending on the timescale.

If we are going to compare ancient Neolithic time admixture we can call Europeans mixed with ancient West Asian genes. However if we compare modern people it makes no sense to say Europeans are West Asian admixed. Since these genes didn't come from modern times but have been around Europe for several thousand years.

But if we are going to be completely fair. If there is one region in this world that had barely been influenced by outside admixture it would be West Asia and East Asia since the mesolithic. Europe had massive genetic overturns by populations coming from outside of Europe. Africa the same, Soutn and Central Asia too.

[Demhat]

I think it's been said enough on this 6 page thread already but since Turks barely ever score any separate Asian there has to be Asian admixture in the Anatolian reference. Funny though because I was thinking about it too and then saw this thread lol.

Another thing that brought it to my mind though is the fact North Caucasians score predominantly Anatolian and not ICM, so it made sense to me the Asian admixture North Caucasians have would be absorbed into the Anatolian category and that's why they would score a pretty large amount of that (because it's essentially a mixture of West Asian + Mongoloid, something both groups have in common).

It's still predominantly West Eurasian. Like around 97-95%. They probably took Turkish samples with moderate East Eurasian admixture. That is why you still have some Turks that can score seperately up to 6% East Eurasian.

[Dr_Maul]

Dude honestly you got some interesting results. Even though your mom is from the coastal parts of Iran, you still score a good amount of Siberian and original iranic ancestry.

Although it’s kind of too low to tell (1% Siberian could be native) I think it’s possible I could have a Turkmen or Qashqai ancestor. You know Qashqais actually had a decent presence in Bushehr and Fars before Reza Shah deported or killed most of the tribal people

[Demhat]

The problem with the Central Asian category is that it combines everything from high South Asian Pashtuns to Mongolic Kyrgyzs to Iranic Tajiks. And unless it tells you directly where you are from, you can never know which one of those you are. This is why GEDMatch is useful, because I assume my Central Asian comes from a more Iranic region due to my very low Siberian and elevated South Asian

Pashtuns are Iranic though. Most probably descend of the Hepthalites.

[Dr_Maul]

Pashtuns are Iranic though. Most probably descend of the Hepthalites.

True but average Pashtun GEDmatch is like 50% or more South Asian. They are Iranic genetically but have high amounts of S Asian (Iran_N or other) DNA vs West Asian like other Iranics

[Demhat]

True but average Pashtun GEDmatch is like 50% or more South Asian. They are Iranic genetically but have high amounts of S Asian (Iran_N or other) DNA vs West Asian like other Iranics

Categories of "South Asian" or "West Asian" are made by the people. Pashtuns live geographically in South Asia too. So the South Asian cluster is ltierally a mix bunch of Pashtuns, Punjabis and Indians. They are literally clustering with themselves. If you use calculators which take ancient components into consideration. The Pashtuns will predominantly turn out Iran_Neolithic with some EHG and maybe 15% ancestral South Asian.

[Zoro]

Categories of "South Asian" or "West Asian" are made by the people. Pashtuns live geographically in South Asia too. So the South Asian cluster is ltierally a mix bunch of Pashtuns, Punjabis and Indians. They are literally clustering with themselves. If you use calculators which take ancient components into consideration.

Exactly. It's all about who they decide to make S. Asian reference. If 23andme made Kurds S. Asian reference then all of a sudden Kurds would score over 80% S. Asian lol.

On Gedmatch though on Harappa and Dodecad I saw Pashtuns scoring 15-20% S. Asian (you can check the gedmatch spreadsheet) whereas Kurds scored 2-7% S. Asian.




The Pashtuns will predominantly turn out Iran_Neolithic with some EHG and maybe 15% ancestral South Asian

Using ancient components Pashtuns are similar to Kurds and other W. Iranians where they have a base of Iran-Chl and BMAC (which is also like Iran-Chl) and Saka and a little MLBA-E and Siberian-N related and Turkic related and ASI related.

[Demhat]

Exactly. It's all about who they decide to make S. Asian reference. If 23andme made Kurds S. Asian reference then all of a sudden Kurds would score over 80% S. Asian lol.

On Gedmatch though on Harappa and Dodecad I saw Pashtuns scoring 15-20% S. Asian (you can check the gedmatch spreadsheet) whereas Kurds scored 2-7% S. Asian.






I don't like to call that ancestry ASI to be honest. The ASI term was given to this component in a study in an attempt to try to split the Caucasian DNA in Indian population from the predominantly East Eurasian related DNA. And back than the idea was that this "ASI" ancestry originated in South India, but in reality it might have been more widespred in mesolithic times. That's why ASE (Ancient South Eurasian) is a much better fitting term.

so I was right with the 15%. 20% must be still include allot of the Iran_neo like derived ancestry. We have to remember Iran Hotu type of ancestry already reached the subcontinent by mesolithic so it would be wrong to exclude it as "South Asian" source DNA. Just like we don't actually call WHG West Asian/Middle Eastern despite it's clear origin. However it is as wrong to attach that Iran_Hotu type of DNA to "South Asian" too. Best way for a calculator would be to hard code it on West Asians as well South Asians. In the way if the same segment is found in a South Asian population attach it to South Asian component if it's found in West or Central Asians attach it to Iran_Hotu/Neo.

If you take all that Iranian Plateau related DNA out Kurds would never score more than 2% of ASE(Ancestral South Eurasian) type ancestry. Any calculator throwing out even remotely higher scores shows me straight out it is eating up Iranian_Plateau derived ancestry as "South Asian". I remember this ASE type ancestry even popping up on Yamnaya samples in the same calculators. This is why I suspect it might be much older shared ancestry. Remember even Harrapa was like 40% ASE. derived. So this ancestry might have been once more common in this region and was pushed down into India primarily by Iranian_Plateau derived people and secondary by Steppe related populations.

That is why my estimate of 15% for ASE type ancestry in Pashtuns might come close to reality. Reaching North India this ancestry hits 30-35% and in the South as far up as 60%, with some isolated groups going as far up as 80% possibly.