Are MENA White?

[SweetCandy]

According to the U.S. Census Bureau they are.

Discuss.

[Adamm]

No they aren't, a small minority could pass as white (thanks to DNA recombination) but that's about it.

[MinervaItalica]

Aren't MENA Caucasians?

[Kamal900]

Aren't MENA Caucasians?

Yes, but we're not Europeans. While all Europeans are Caucasoids not all Caucasoids are Europeans or Whites.

[Rabbit Hole]

Those of Semite descent no. Those of East Med and Berber descent yes.

[Rabbit Hole]

Aren't MENA Caucasians?

Exactly what I said North Mesopotamia at it's height had Cro Mag Eastern Mediterranean races of people dominating those regions. Same as Turkey and the coastal parts of North Africa.

[SweetCandy]

Those of Semite descent no. Those of East Med and Berber descent yes.

Jews are far whiter than Turks and they're Semites. At least the ones in America.

[Bred]

Jews are far whiter than Turks and they're Semites. At least the ones in America.

Jews are not 100% they are heavily mixed with Europeans

[Demhat]

No they aren't, a small minority could pass as white (thanks to DNA recombination) but that's about it.

"White" is a geo-political term. Not even some MENA can pass as "white".

It has not much to do with DNA recombination either. It's not like they have allot of a ancestry that has proven to not be able to produce fairer features.

You can't simply cherry pick out those you like as white. Just like you couldn't contest the white-ness of very brown or very asiatic looking people of European origin now could you?
Light skin doesn't make you white. Once again because it is a geo-political thing. Otherwise some Asian would be white wouldn't they?

Most importantly who gives a damn?

[Kivan]

I bet OP is a sockpuppet of that banned Lebanese (or Jewish, or wathever he is) guy.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?26132-MaldenK
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?26414-VigVagKesalt

[Adamm]

"White" is a geo-political term. Therefore some MENA can't pass as "white". You can't simply cherry pick out those who you like. Just like you couldn't contest the white-ness of very brown people of European origin now could you?
Light skin doesn't make you are white. Once again because it is a geo-political thing. Otherwise some Asian would be white wouldn't they?

Most importantly who gives a damn?

White is for me on a personal lvl someone who looks typically Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Slavic. Everybody who resembles their looks/phenotypes could be seen as white in my book, everyone who doesn't look like that is not white. White for me is purely an appearance thing, nothing to do with genetics or the country you live in. Therefor a minority of MENA could pass as 'white' because they have that 'look' on them.

[Rabbit Hole]

Jews are far whiter than Turks and they're Semites. At least the ones in America.

This isn't about gay hair and eye colour. The Fertile Cresent at it's height had a Mediterranean race of people dominanting it. The Hitittes were swarthy but Indo European and they had a empire in most Levantine North African and Mesopotamian countries same as the Berbers, the Berbers even are the remnants of Upper Paleolithic populations of North Africa. Do you want a scientific historical answer or a subjective political one?

[Rabbit Hole]

I bet OP is a sockpuppet of that banned Lebanese (or Jewish, or wathever he is) guy.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?26132-MaldenK
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?26414-VigVagKesalt

He could easily be a Turk with that amount of autism too

[El_Abominacion]

Some groups yes, most no

[SweetCandy]

This isn't about gay hair and eye colour. The Fertile Cresent at it's height had a Mediterranean race of people dominanting it. The Hitittes were swarthy but Indo European and they had a empire in most Levantine North African and Mesopotamian countries same as the Berbers, the Berbers even are the remnants of Upper paleolithic populations of North Africa. Do you want a scientific historical answer or a subjective political one?

Scientific historical answer. You are also categorizing people based on linguistic groups which is inaccurate. They are merely linguistic groups.

[Rabbit Hole]

Scientific historical answer. You are also categorizing people based on linguistic groups which is inaccurate. They are merely linguistic groups.

They genuinely exist, they aren't simply ''linguistic groups'' and Jews don't speak a Indo European language anyway

[Demhat]

White is for me on a personal lvl someone who looks typically Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Slavic. Everybody who resembles their looks/phenotypes could be seen as white in my book, everyone who doesn't look like that is not white. White for me is purely an appearance thing, nothing to do with genetics or the country you live in. Therefor a minority of MENA could pass as 'white' because they have that 'look' on them.


As you pointed out correctly thats completely your opinion. Which in my opinion is not valid from a scientific view. You can't simply split the Mediterranean Europeans into some desired "White" category and their genetic identical relatives into non "white". You also can't claim some traits in Middle Easterners that are pleasing to you as "white ". It's not like they have extensive amount of European ancestry instead of the opposite being the case.

[Karol Klačansky]

transitional people. People from Yemen, not really white. Many people from Turkey and Syria...yea

[yamagi]

Depends on what you take into consideration to categorize groups based on looks, genetic, religion, racial taxonomy and so on and forth.

[Chaos One]

The point is the whole agenda about it.

It seems some people just want to create a scenario where "everyone want to be white" just because this puts his group on a proper status. It's like saying "everyone want to be tall" just because you're and created some aura about it just to feel better.

The real answer about it should be 'who cares', but given the US (and Latin American context as another example): maybe. If people treat you as white before knowing your context/background, you're white, period.

[Armenian Bishop]

According to the U.S. Census Bureau they are.

Discuss.

That's basically the answer right there: "According to the U.S. Census Bureau they are." So yea, many of them can be considered White.

In the early 20th Century an affiliation with Christianity weighed in more heavily, but an affiliation with other world religions became more acceptable during the last few decades of the century. As an American with Armenian and Germanic ancestry, I was always deemed to be White here in California. The U.S. Census People always advised me to check the "White" box, when I questioned them about it.

[Teutone]

No.

Case closed.

[Ford]

White = Anglo

[Rabbit Hole]

White = Anglo

https://www.mencap.org.uk/learning-disability-explained/conditions-linked-learning-disability/autism-and-aspergers-syndrome?gclid=CjwKCAjw7e_0BRB7EiwAlH-goIXIE_pBhjqcwVkiEyolQRVbruK0lylEDg1pe3Gl-3yfe7qEEh3f6hoCg9oQAvD_BwE

[TheMaestro]

Nein.

[eatensemn]

There are two types of white definition. (I don't care about the third "anthrotard" idiotic definition which means "european christians" as they claim the skin color which is not only theirs)

White per benjamin: english, scottish, dutch, dane, low german. Pretty much the people who inhabited usa first, aka baby pink skin people

White per coon & us government: Caucasoids and predominantly caucasoid mixes, europe, west asia and north africa.

So by which "white" you ask? If you ask my personal white, it's very simple. If you're looking closer to white, than you're white. So, there are some white individuals and mixed (brown) individuals.

[HelloGuys]

To me; yeah

[Nomansman]

People from north west asia are white

[Dr_Maul]

>Be me
>Not white
>Get called sandnigger all day online and irl
>"at least I can apply for Affirmative Action because I am a minority"
>Government classifies me as white
>University's won't take me because they 'want to be diverse'

https://i.ibb.co/cktPB4C/download-10.jpg

[Altaison]

There are two types of white definition. (I don't care about the third "anthrotard" idiotic definition which means "european christians" as they claim the skin color which is not only theirs)

White per benjamin: english, scottish, dutch, dane, low german. Pretty much the people who inhabited usa first, aka baby pink skin people

White per coon & us government: Caucasoids and predominantly caucasoid mixes, europe, west asia and north africa.

So by which "white" you ask? If you ask my personal white, it's very simple. If you're looking closer to white, than you're white. So, there are some white individuals and mixed (brown) individuals.

According to some, you are not white due to west asian part.

[Eline]

'white' is just an Anglo-Saxon invention. Some MENA are much more Caucasoid than native people in Europe.

As long there are Jews: Semites and therefore Arabs will be considered 'white' in the US. You can't say that some Semites like Jews are white and other not.

[Eline]

'white' is just an Anglo-Saxon invention. Some MENA are much more Caucasoid than native people in Europe.

Ethnic groups like Kurds are dark in 'complexion', but they are much more Caucasoid than Hungarians or Finnic people. Be it racially, culturally, linguistically or historically.

[Aileron]

If they can approach my look, then yes they would be..






Lol Jk

[Demhat]

Ethnic groups like Kurds are dark in 'complexion', but they are much more Caucasoid than Hungarians or Finnic people. Be it racially, culturally, linguistically or historically.
Please hold us out of this who is whiter war. Even the most "blondish" Kurd you could find would not be white.

[Eline]

As an American with Armenian and Germanic ancestry, I was always deemed to be White here in California. The U.S. Census People always advised me to check the "White" box, when I questioned them about it.Armenians are maybe even more Caucasoid than Germans, lol. Germans are a little bit mixed with Uralic/Finno-Ugric people.

Armenian is a Caucasoid (Indo-Eurpean) language.
Armenian history is part of the Caucasoid world, also part of the Judeo-Christian or so called Abrahamic world
Armenian culture is Caucasoid and not very much influenced by the Turks, Huns or Mongolians.
Armenians have also very much Caucasoid West Asian DNA

[Eline]

Please hold us out of this who is whiter war. Even the most "blondish" Kurd you find would not be white.Well, Kurds are not Anglo-Saxon, but Northwest Iranic, that for sure.

People are who they are, opinions don't change DNA or identity of the people.

[Demhat]

Well, Kurds are not Anglo-Saxon, but Northwest Iranic, that for sure.

People are who they are, opinions doesn't change DNA or identity of the people.

That's an ethno linguistic sub group that exclusively exists in Western Asia. Look the point is saying things like "Kurds are more Caucasian than x y European group" will trigger these Europeans in their white pride.

[Eline]

My point is that if you are not 'Caucasoid', but Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric etc. you can't never be considered 'white'.

Fitst you must be Caucasoid than it is an Anglo-Saxon thing.

So, a lot people in Europe who have Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric hisotry, language, blood, are not even considered 'Caucasoid'. Therefore they can't be 'white'.

[Eline]

double post

[Eline]

That's an ethno linguistic sub group that exclusively exists in Western Asia. Look the point is saying things like "Kurds are more Caucasian than x y European group" will trigger these Europeans in their white pride.
My point is that if you are not 'Caucasoid', but Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric etc. you can never be considered 'white'. How can someone be white if he/she is not of Caucasoid origin?

Fitst you must be Caucasoid, then it is an Anglo-Saxon thing.

So, a lot people in Europe who have Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric history, language, blood, are not even considered 'Caucasoid'. Therefore they can't be 'white'.


People who are hurt in their pride are weak and insecure, not my problem!

[Aileron]

My point is that if you are not 'Caucasoid', but Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric etc. you can't never be considered 'white'.
Fitst you must be Caucasoid than it is an Anglo-Saxon thing.

So, a lot people in Europe who have Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric hisotry, language, blood, are not even considered 'Caucasoid'. Therefore they can't be 'white'.

Ahh so 'Caucasid Indians etc are white but not Finns and Hungarians.
Yeah makes sense...

[Eline]

My point is that if you are not 'Caucasoid', but Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric etc. you can never be considered 'white'. How can someone be white if he/she is not of Caucasoid origin?

Fitst you must be Caucasoid, then it is an Anglo-Saxon thing.

So, a lot people in Europe who have Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric history, language, blood, are not even considered 'Caucasoid'. Therefore they can't be 'white'.


People who are hurt in their pride are weak and insecure, not my problem!This is what I mean:


https://i.postimg.cc/RCYqsH4w/Meyers-map.jpg

[Eline]

Ahh so 'Caucasid Indians etc are white but not Finns and Hungarians.
Yeah makes sense...Indians are not considred 'Caucasoids'. Indians, like Pakistani are considered South Asians by the American census, they are something different, a mixture between Caucasoids and Australoids

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Y6V50N/black-white.png



Turks can never be considere 'white' because Turks have non-Caucasoid Altaic/Mongoloid/East Asian roots. Also, Turks speak a non-Caucasoid language as their mother tongue.

[Aileron]

Indians are not considred 'Caucasoids'. Indians, like Pakistani are considered South Asians by the American census, they are something different, a mixture between Caucasoids and Australoids

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Y6V50N/black-white.png


Turks can never be considere 'white' because Turks have non-Caucasoid Altaic/Mongoloid/East Asian roots. Also, Turks speak a non-Caucasoid language as their mother tongue.

Lol who said we are white but your logic is very flawed

[Eline]

Lol who said we are white but your logic is very flawedNot really, we have evidence that Indians are not 'Caucasoids' and therefore never can be 'white'. They are not even considered Caucasoid by the US standards/census

Indians, Pakistani etc. people are South Asians and have a lot non-Caucasoid Australoid blood in them. I don't see any issues here.


Anglo-Saxons can consider themselves 'whites', because they are 'Caucasoids' first.

[Halgurd]

People in the Middle East don't give a flying fuck about whose white and whose not white.

[Eline]

Study this map and you will understand what I mean. Many people in Europe don't even have Caucasoid roots, lol.

https://i.postimg.cc/RCYqsH4w/Meyers-map.jpg

[gixajo]

Indians are not considred 'Caucasoids'. Indians, like Pakistani are considered South Asians by the American census, they are something different, a mixture between Caucasoids and Australoids

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Y6V50N/black-white.png



Turks can never be considere 'white' because Turks have non-Caucasoid Altaic/Mongoloid/East Asian roots. Also, Turks speak a non-Caucasoid language as their mother tongue.

Is this an official form?

If it is, in USA are really obsessed with hispanics, lainoamericans and Spanish ancestry.

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

[Aileron]

Not really, we have evidence that Indians are not 'Caucasoids' and therefore never can be 'white'. They are not even considered Caucasoid by the US standards/census

Indians, Pakistani etc. people are South Asians and have a lot non-Caucasoid Australoid blood in them. I don't see any issues here.


Anglo-Saxons can consider themselves 'whites', because they are 'Caucasoids' first.

Yeah no..

You would have a hard time to convince people that those dark,brown West Asians such as Kurds and Armenians would white but not Finss and Hungarians lol

[Eline]

People in the Middle East don't give a flying fuck about whose white and whose not white.JEWS do. Jews are obsessed about that!

And as long there are Jews, there will be such a nonsense.

[Eline]

Yeah no..

You would have a hard time to convince people that those dark,brown West Asians such as Kurds and Armenians would white but not Finss and Hungarians lolWhich people? Scientists? I don't have to convince the scientists, because they know.

And I don't care about the ignorant, uneducated, retard people. They are godforsaken at the first place, because they are morons.

[Eline]

Is this an official form?

If it is, in USA are really obsessed with hispanics, lainoamericans and Spanish ancestry.

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?Yeah, it is 100% official!

[Dr_Maul]

Is this an official form?

If it is, in USA are really obsessed with hispanics, lainoamericans and Spanish ancestry.

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

It's actually crazy... I had to renew my driver's license and they ask you like 50 times how much native american you are or spanish

[JASS98900]

don't finns and hungarians cluster genetically closer to groups such as anglo-saxons compared to kurds and armenians?

[Eline]

don't finns and hungarians cluster genetically closer to groups such as anglo-saxons compared to kurds and armenians?Yeah, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns are heavily mixed with 'Caucasoid' Europeans, and other Europeans are mixed with Finns and Hungarians. Therefore many Europeans are not pure Caucasoids.

Also, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns have non-Caucasoid Finno-Ugrian (Eastern Eurasian) origin.

That's why I'm saying that many people in NorthWest Asia (like Kurds and Armenians) are much more 'Caucasoid' than many people in Europe. Being 'White' is just an Anglo-Saxon thing.

[gixajo]

It's actually crazy... I had to renew my driver's license and they ask you like 50 times how much native american you are or spanish

So if I am from Spain , I cannot mark X in White and then write Spanish?

Are people sanctioned if they do that?

Well, is your country and your rules, but it´s it´s strange.

[Demhat]

Is this an official form?

If it is, in USA are really obsessed with hispanics, lainoamericans and Spanish ancestry.

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

I swear these Americans trolling Iberians hard. It's like they just want to see your facial expression while reading "White or Spanish" lol.

[SweetCandy]

Yeah, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns are heavily mixed with 'Caucasoid' Europeans, and other Europeans are mixed with Finns and Hungarians. Therefore many Europeans are not pure Caucasoids.

Also, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns have non-Caucasoid Finno-Ugrian (Eastern Eurasian) origin.

That's why I'm saying that many people in NorthWest Asia (like Kurds and Armenians) are much more 'Caucasoid' than many people in Europe. Being 'White' is just an Anglo-Saxon thing.

What do you think people such as Kazakhs, Turks and Hazars should check which box? I think they should check 'Latino' because they are of similar admixture to them and not fully 'Caucasoid'.

[Eline]

So if I am from Spain , I cannot mark X in White and then write Spanish?

Are people sanctioned if they do that?

Well, is your country and your rules, but it´s it´s strange.
No, if you have direct unmixed Euro-Spanish roots, you should check Euro-White

[Eline]

What do you think people such as Kazakhs, Turks and Hazars should check which box? I think they should check 'Latino' because they are of similar admixture to them and not fully 'Caucasoid'.They are semi-Mongoloids (Eastern Eurasians). So, 'Other Asian'-box.

They are not fully Caucasoid, that for sure. And therefore can never be considered 'White'.

[Babak]

Nope

[Dr_Maul]

So if I am from Spain , I cannot mark X in White and then write Spanish?

Are people sanctioned if they do that?

Well, is your country and your rules, but it´s it´s strange.

There is no real difference in the outcome if you are white, black, hispanic or anything really. They only do it for 2 reasons

1. Database and census: for statistics, info etc
2. Affirmative Action: People with high amount of Native American DNA and Blacks sometimes get preferential treatment, usually in education (college application)

[JASS98900]

Yeah, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns are heavily mixed with 'Caucasoid' Europeans, and other Europeans are mixed with Finns and Hungarians. Therefore many Europeans are not pure Caucasoids.

Also, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns have non-Caucasoid Finno-Ugrian (Eastern Eurasian) origin.

That's why I'm saying that many people in NorthWest Asia (like Kurds and Armenians) are much more 'Caucasoid' than many people in Europe. Being 'White' is just an Anglo-Saxon thing.

How much is the non-caucasoid ancestry in finns and hungarians?isn't it less than 10 percent?.if so its not much of significance.

[Demhat]

Yeah, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns are heavily mixed with 'Caucasoid' Europeans, and other Europeans are mixed with Finns and Hungarians. Therefore many Europeans are not pure Caucasoids.

Also, Hungarians (Magyar) and Finns have non-Caucasoid Finno-Ugrian (Eastern Eurasian) origin.

That's why I'm saying that many people in NorthWest Asia (like Kurds and Armenians) are much more 'Caucasoid' than many people in Europe. Being 'White' is just an Anglo-Saxon thing.

Dear please take Kurds out of the quotation and only use Armenians as example. I already see them coming for us.

[gixajo]

I swear these Americans trolling Iberians hard. It's like they just want to see your facial expression while reading "White or Spanish" lol.

Maybe is a consequence of their Anglo ancestry, historically Spanish and British have teased each other. Well we stop teasing them centuries ago, but they still continue doing it sometines.

[Eline]

There is no real difference in the outcome if you are white, black, hispanic or anything really. They only do it for 2 reasons

1. Database and census: for statistics, info etc
2. Affirmative Action: People with high amount of Native American DNA and Blacks sometimes get preferential treatment, usually in education (college application)Yeah, it is better to be considered as non-White in the State nowadays, due to minority rights and positive discrimination. Non-Whites are getting a lot money from the Central Government and the Federal Bank.

That's why some Middle-Eastern people are angry and also want to profit from minority rights and get money. But as long there are 'Semitic' Jews, other Semites such as Arabs will be considered 'White'.

[Dr_Maul]

Yeah, it is better to be considered as non-White in the State nowadays, due to minority right and positive discrimination. Non-Whites are getting a lot money from the Central Government and Federal Bank.

That's why some Middle-Eastern people are angry and also want to profit from minority right and get money. But as long there are 'Semitic' Jews, other Semites such as Arabs will be considered 'White'.

Uh, idk what jews have to do with it but I don't really think its better to be non-white here tbh. Nobody is just 'giving out' money to blacks or hispanics. Only if you are like >50% Native American you can get something like 30 or 40% off of College Tuition and SOMETIMES elite level Universities will be more easy going on blacks to get higher diversity percentage. I don't agree with Affirmative Action but I think its a bit overstated

[gixajo]

There is no real difference in the outcome if you are white, black, hispanic or anything really. They only do it for 2 reasons

1. Database and census: for statistics, info etc
2. Affirmative Action: People with high amount of Native American DNA and Blacks sometimes get preferential treatment, usually in education (college application)

Yeah, national population racial statistics could be quite interesting for any state in order to carry out accurate policies and directing resources to solve particular problems that could have each ethnic group. But i think that probably those statistics should only be for internal use in the administration, because most of people outside formed people could easily misinterpret them or simply those data could be used as a propaganda weapon against a particular ethnic group.

But maybe doing this could affect transparency policy in USA or infringe the right of information of people.

[samario]

Just like in the U.S., Levantines are deemed as white over here, especially Christian Levantines.

[Eline]

Uh, idk what jews have to do with it
Jews are the ruling class (elites) in the States. And the Jews see themselves as equal to the Anglo-Saxon rulling class. And the ruling class (elites) in the State is already intermingled with each other. That's why you can't consider the Jewish ruling class as non-White. Jews are considered 'white' in the States. Jews are Semites and are cousins of the Arabs. Jews and Arabs share the same Semitic origin, speak the same Semitic dialect, etc.

That's why you can't make a distinction between the Jews and the Arabs. And as long there are Jews, they are considered 'white', and as long there are Jews also 'other' Semites will be considered 'White'.

[Dr_Maul]

Jews are the ruling class (elites) in the States. And Jews see themselves as equal to the Anglo-Saxon rulling class. And the ruling class (elites) in the State is already intermingled with each other. That's why you can't consider the Jewish ruling class as non-White. Jews are considered 'white' in the States. Jews are Semites and are cousins of the Arabs. Jews and Arabs share the same Semitic origin, speak the same Semitic dialect, etc.

That's why you can't make a distinction between the Jews and the Arabs. And as long there are Jews, they are considered 'white', and as long there are Jews also 'other' Semites will be considered 'White'.

aight

[sean]

My point is that if you are not 'Caucasoid', but Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric etc. you can't never be considered 'white'. So, a lot people in Europe who have Mongoloid, Altaic, Turkic, Finno-Ugric hisotry, language, blood, are not even considered 'Caucasoid'. Therefore they can't be 'white'.


Many people in Europe don't even have Caucasoid roots, lol.

https://i.imgur.com/cZPk5aI.jpg

This is why the notion of Caucasoid itself being a race on a genetic level or even a reliably inherited set of features is really dumb.

[Synapsid]

No, people who have high EHG via Steppe (and native source in NE Europe) and WHG-Farmer ancestry are white. MENA can be just as light as European populations but genetically they are different.

[Eline]

https://i.imgur.com/cZPk5aI.jpg

This is why the notion of Caucasoid itself being a race on a genetic level or even a reliably inherited set of features is really dumb.It is more based on the measurement of the SKULLS than skin pigmentation.

You can distinguish and filter the Caucasoid skull from the non-Caucasoid skulls

[Eline]

like here:

https://i.postimg.cc/T1HWmn8Q/skulls.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/GmMhpbCJ/ace.png

[gixajo]

https://i.imgur.com/cZPk5aI.jpg

This is why the notion of Caucasoid itself being a race on a genetic level or even a reliably inherited set of features is really dumb.

Change the British man photo, he is cross-eyed and he would give a bad image of your ethnic group.And put a blue eyed British, please.

[Synapsid]

like here:

https://i.postimg.cc/T1HWmn8Q/skulls.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/GmMhpbCJ/ace.png

Mesolithic Europeans such as WHG and EHG had different skull structures, yet genetically only Europeans have their blood in high numbers. A robost Baltid with low nose roots is still closer to a Gracile Swede than a Gracile Syrian is.

[FinalFlash]

Near Easterners are cousins to Europeans but still recognizably different. North Africans are just something else. Don't even know why this MENA term is still being thrown around as if it's based on any genetic reality.

[mitalit]

https://i.imgur.com/cZPk5aI.jpg

This is why the notion of Caucasoid itself being a race on a genetic level or even a reliably inherited set of features is really dumb.

what's the point of put cross-eyed?, do you mean all english are cross-eyed? you have fallen very low sean...

[Eline]

If you want to just claim that Caucasoid is just a combination of skull shape and features structurally and isn't an actual race itself and admit that it occurs across a vast horde of people thanks to things like different genotypes resulting in similar phenotypes, then that's reasonable. Though this is silly as these different ethnic groups have very little genetic relation.

Many children born in the same families, have a variety of head shapes. It doesn't make sense to call one child 1 race, and their brother or sister another race. That's totally unscientific.It is not about the individuals, but also about the 'averages' of different ethnicities.

And nowadays, Indians (South Asians) are not considered 'Caucasoid' at the first place.

[gixajo]

No, people who have high EHG via Steppe (and native source in NE Europe) and WHG-Farmer ancestry are white. MENA can be just as light as European populations but genetically they are different.

How much of those components or in what proportion should they be present or you think should be high enough to be consider white?

[gixajo]

what's the point of put cross-eyed?, do you mean all english are cross-eyed? you have fallen very low sean...

Maybe the cross-eyed is Irish and not English.

[Synapsid]

How much of those components or in what proportion should they be present or you think should be high enough to be consider white?

40% and the farmer ancestry has to be Anatolian neolithic.

[Eline]

Mesolithic Europeans such as WHG and EHG had different skull structures, yet genetically only Europeans have their blood in high numbers. A robost Baltid with low nose roots is still closer to a Gracile Swede than a Gracile Syrian is.WHG and EHG belong to different species.

EHG is related to the Eastern Eurasia and can't be considered fully Caucasoid. EHG was for a huge part Mongoloid.

Native Europeans are are mixture between Anatolian farmers, WHG and Yamnaya. Yamnaya was mostly Caucasoid due to CHG/Iranian input in it


https://i.postimg.cc/fbFhpK4Y/yamna-steppe-emba-mlba-cloud.png

[Synapsid]

WHG and EHG belong to different species.

EHG is related to the Eastern Eurasia and can't be considered fully Caucasoid. EHG was for a huge part Mongoloid.

Native Europeans are are mixture between Anatolian farmers, WHG and Yamnaya. Yamnaya was mostly Caucasoid due to CHG input in it


https://i.postimg.cc/fbFhpK4Y/yamna-steppe-emba-mlba-cloud.png

If Nothern Europeans are pale as they are, then its because the EHG in Steppe_EMBA and WHG rich TRB farmers. And EHG is only 10% Mongoloid, of which it is the old Tianyuan varient (not like modern Asians). ANE is 24% ENA/Asian. But the bulk of EHG ancestry is West Euraisan (2/3 ANE and 1/3 WHG). And there is no such things as 'caucasiod'. Basal Eurasian rich component makes people more 'Caucasoid' huh?

[G.Tucker]

Maybe is a consequence of their Anglo ancestry, historically Spanish and British have teased each other. Well we stop teasing them centuries ago, but they still continue doing it sometines.

In US, Race and Hispanic Origin are two separate entities. A Hispanic can be White, Black/Afro, Asian or Native (they fill both boxes).

You may have heard of the term non-Hispanic whites? They are your typical Anglo-American and make up 55-60% of the population. In theory, this category would also include anyone with majority European ancestry who does not speak Spanish as their first language e.g. Brazilian with Italian roots

Spaniards and Criollos/Castizos from Latam would tick White and write 'Spanish/Cuban/etc.' and would also tick Hispanic box. They become Hispanic whites and are about 12% of the population and about 50% of all Hispanics. So there are about 70% whites in US (Hispanic or not) and about 25% Hispanics of all races.

In reality, very few Spaniards live in US. Most Hispanic Whites are Mexican and Cuban (esp. in Florida)

[samario]

Near Easterners are cousins to Europeans but still recognizably different. North Africans are just something else. Don't even know why this MENA term is still being thrown around as if it's based on any genetic reality.

Maybe because of 23AndMe. I'm not fond of this mena term either to be honest.

[Eline]

WHG and EHG belong to different species.

EHG is related to the Eastern Eurasia and can't be considered fully Caucasoid. EHG was for a huge part Mongoloid.

Native Europeans are are mixture between Anatolian farmers, WHG and Yamnaya. Yamnaya was mostly Caucasoid due to CHG/Iranian input in it


https://i.postimg.cc/fbFhpK4Y/yamna-steppe-emba-mlba-cloud.pngAnd this. EHG was for a huge part Mongoloid.

It is the CHG and Iranian Plateau DNA that made Yamnaya 'Caucasoid'. But Yamnaya was not 'White' by Anglo-Saxon standards.


https://i.postimg.cc/7YZvXcdf/Yamnaya-2.jpg

[Eline]

If Nothern Europeans are pale as they are, then its because the EHG in Steppe_EMBA and WHG rich TRB farmers.No, it is because of their diet and climate.

Yamnaya (that Indo-Europeanized Europe) was darker than modern NorthWest Europeans.

[Tietar]

Indians are not considred 'Caucasoids'. Indians, like Pakistani are considered South Asians by the American census, they are something different, a mixture between Caucasoids and Australoids

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Y6V50N/black-white.png



Turks can never be considere 'white' because Turks have non-Caucasoid Altaic/Mongoloid/East Asian roots. Also, Turks speak a non-Caucasoid language as their mother tongue.

Taking into account that blacks from the former Spanish colonies like Florida are registered as African-Americans, while blacks from other nearby regions such as Cuba are of Spanish origin, (just like the natives of Central America), this seems absurd Census is not racial, but political.

You can understand the political intent in regards to Spanish, but when you see that they include Africans in their white group, in addition to being an absurd census it also seems quite retard

[gixajo]

In US, Race and Hispanic Origin are two separate entities. A Hispanic can be White, Black/Afro, Asian or Native (they fill both boxes).

You may have heard of the term non-Hispanic whites? They are your typical Anglo-American and make up 55-60% of the population. In theory, this category would also include anyone with majority European ancestry who does not speak Spanish as their first language e.g. Brazilian with Italian roots

Spaniards and Criollos/Castizos from Latam would tick White and write 'Spanish/Cuban/etc.' and would also tick Hispanic box. They become Hispanic whites and are about 12% of the population and about 50% of all Hispanics. So there are about 70% whites in US (Hispanic or not) and about 25% Hispanics of all races.

In reality, very few Spaniards live in US. Most Hispanic Whites are Mexican and Cuban (esp. in Florida)

Yeah, I know it, it was only a joke about ancient rivalries.

In the US till recent times Hispanic and Spanish were equivalent terms for most people.

[Eline]

You can understand the political intent in regards to Spanish, but when you see that they include Africans in their white group, in addition to being an absurd census it also seems quite retardThe term 'white' has no meaning. It is a geopolitical colonialist term.

But you don't understand something, if you are born in Madrid or Barcelona (in Europe) you are considered as Euro-White (Euro-Caucasoid) according to the US census.


There are no races, all races are mixed with each other, but if you want to divide human species, the one should follow 'African', 'Western Eurasian', 'Eastern Eurasian' etc. terminology.

[Synapsid]

No, it is because of their diet and climate.

Yamnaya (that Indo-Europeanized Europe) was darker than modern NorthWest Europeans.

Yes, because Yamnaya was had excess CHG related ancestry (probably even small levels of Iran_N from the Iranian Plataeu). Yamnaya is a bad model for Steppe ancestry in Northern Europeans. Yamnaya is Steppe_Eneolithic (Khavalyask)+CHG+more CHG. Think of a more Euro looking Khabib (the UFC fighter), that's what Yamnaya would have looked like. Modern Northern Europeans don't have high CHG (actually SE Europeans and Sothern Italians have much higher CHG but much of it is non-steppe migration i.e. from post neolithic Anatolia) If you want to use a good proxy for the source Steppe in Northern Europeans, then Stredny Stog II is good candidate. Corded Ware Culture also has evident signs of admixture of Baltic Nava Hunter Gatherers who were quite light. And then you have subsequent Bronze age selection for Eye colours, Light hair and pigmentation. You are stuck in 2017 in terms your understanding of population genetics.

[joanna_38]

I would put them closer to Mediterranean countries in terms of skin color. They have a similar tone/hue to their skin, can tan easily etc. etc. because of the climate, similar hair color/type etc.
Yes, they aren't European but since they have a similar climate to other Mediterranean countries, you can't say that they aren't something other than white.
I don't really understand the question of the thread, but this is the most i can give you as a response.
I mean, you wouldn't really put Mark Zuckerberg as something other than "white" really, look at him.

EDIT: and yes i'll agree, this feels more "political" than an actual skin-color type related question :/

[G.Tucker]

Yeah, I know it, it was only a joke about ancient rivalries.

In the US till recent times Hispanic and Spanish were equivalent terms for most people.

Quote:

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

[Eline]

If you want to use a good proxy for the source Steppe in Northern Europeans, then Stredny Stog II is good candidate. Corded Ware Culture also has evident signs of admixture of Baltic Nava Hunter Gatherers who quite light. And then you have subsequent Bronze age selection for Eye colours, Light hair and pigmentation. You are stuck in 2017 in terms your understanding of population genetics.
Indo-Europeanisation of Europe started with Yamnaya. CWC, BBC cultures are just derived cultures from Yamnaya. If you want to look at the begging of the Indo-European history of the Europeans, the one should start looking at Yamnaya first. All other less important influences came later.

[Synapsid]

Indo-Europeanisation of Europe started with Yamnaya. CWC, BBC cultures are just derived cultures from Yamnaya. If you want to look at the begging of the Indo-European history of the Europeans, the one should start looking at Yamnaya first. All other less important influences came later.

No its not. its starts with Samara HG, and then Khavalyask/Steppe Eneolithic. I let Token elaborate it further. He knows more than me.

[Eline]

No its not. its starts with Samara HG, and then Khavalyask/Steppe Eneolithic. I let Token elaborate it further. He knows more than me.Not really. Ancient Indo-European languages that entered Europe came from Yamnaya and absolutely not from Samara HG or Khavalyask.

Second stage Indo-European that entered Europe was born/started in Yamnaya. This is what scientists (like Reich) are saying, not me. Therefore IEan history of the IEan Europeans started in Yamnaya.

[gixajo]

Quote:

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

Yes, quite imprecission in my "I know it", maybe must have quoted your text and put in bold what was exactly what I know in it and what I didn´t know exactly, and what i have some idea but i didn´t know the exact reason.

[Eline]

Not really. Ancient Indo-European languages that entered Europe came from Yamnaya and absolutely not from Samara HG or Khavalyask.

Second stage Indo-European that entered Europe was born/started in Yamnaya. This is what scientists (like Reich) are saying, not me. Therefore IEan history of the IEan Europeans started in Yamnaya.
This is the current consensus and understanding among the leading scientists.

https://i.postimg.cc/59TvmHsG/d.jpg

[gixajo]

Is Yamnaya term only a modern convention to personalize first Indoeuropean people in only one of those peoples who came here or it´s an actual accurate term?

I don´t know still how exactly assess Yamnayas.

[Eline]

Is Yamnaya term only a modern convention to personalize first Indoeuropean people in only one of those peoples who came here or it´s an actual accurate term?

I don´t know still how exactly assess Yamnayas.The first Indo-Europeans and their 'kurgans' that entered Europe came originally from Yamnaya. But while those ancient IEans migrated deeper into Europe they mixed underway with the Euro-natives and found pure European cultures like CWC and BBC.

[gixajo]

This is the current consensus and understanding among the leading scientists.

g]

Wich culture is each colour associated with in that map?

[Eline]

Wich culture is each colour associated with in that map?
Pink = first EHG and later associated with Yamnaya
Light blue = WHG
Light green = Anatolian farmers
Orange = Natufians/Levant farmers
Dark blue = CHG/Iran (Northern Mesopotamia)

[gixajo]

The first Indo-Europeans and their 'kurgans' that entered Europe came originally from Yamnaya. But while those ancient IEans migrated deeper into Europe they mixed underway with the Euro-natives and found pure European cultures like CWC and BBC.

Yeah, but this don´t answer my question, maybe cause I am not very good in english and the way of doing the question was vague, or simply I am unable to see it. Sorry.

Does the term Yamnaya comes from one specific indoeuropean culture, and to simplify all first inodeuropean cultures by convention are called Yamnaya, or Yamnaya encompasses all first indoeuropean cultures actually?

i know obviously that Yamanya didn´t call themselves Yamnaya, and that the word itself has a meaning as " pit people" or something similar for the shape of their graves.

[gixajo]

Pink = first EHG and later associated with Yamnaya
Light blue = WHG
Light green = Anatolian farmers
Orange = Natufians/Levant farmers
Dark blue = CHG/Iran (Northern Mesopotamia)

I was not sure if were those exactly, thanks.

[Armenian Bishop]

Quote:

Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

Spanish aren't excluded; The U.S. Census System defines Spain as a White Nation; People from Latin American Countries primarily are categorized as "Hispanic" for socio-economic reasons.

It's an Affirmative Action Problem, and the idea is that Culturally Hispanic People are at an economic disadvantage; so, the Government uses the Census Forms to allocate various financing programs and perks for Hispanic People, and others whom are classified as Non-White.

So, the Census Forms are used to allocate funds and social-welfare assistance to various "Non-White" Regions. Basically, "White" Males are excluded from a vast number of Government Assistance Programs, even "White" Females are able to obtain some of those advantages.

[gixajo]

Spanish aren't excluded; The U.S. Census System defines Spain as a White Nation; People from Latin American Countries primarily are categorized as "Hispanic" for socio-economic reasons.

It's an Affirmative Action Problem, and the idea is that Culturally Hispanic People are at an economic disadvantage; so, the Government uses the Census Forms to allocate various financing programs and perks for Hispanic People, and others whom are classified as Non-White.

So, the Census Forms are used to allocate funds and social-welfare assistance to various "Non-White" Regions. Basically, White Males are excluded from a vast number of Government Assistance Programs, even "White" Females are able to obtain some of those advantages.

For example, do you mark X in white?

[Eline]

Yeah, but this don´t answer my question, maybe cause I am not very good in english and the way of doing the question was vague, or simply I am unable to see it. Sorry.

Does the term Yamnaya comes from one specific indoeuropean culture, and to simplify all first inodeuropean cultures by convention are called Yamnaya, or Yamnaya encompasses all first indoeuropean cultures actually?

i know obviously that Yamanya didn´t call themselves Yamnaya, and that the word itself has a meaning as " pit people" or something similar for the shape of their graves.Everything is changing. I don't know whether they were homogeneous. Maybe NorthWest Yamnaya people were a little bit different from the SouthEast Yamnaya people.

But according to the current knowledge/paradigm Yamnya was the second stage Proto-Indo-European culture that came to Europe

Indo-Europeans that migrated into the West and Indo-Europeanised the Euro-natives came from the Yamnaya Cultural Horizon (place) during the same period of (time contemporary to) the Yamnaya culture.


So, you can point the first source of the Indo-European people in Europe to the time and space of the Yamnaya Horizon.

[Immanenz]

And this. EHG was for a huge part Mongoloid.

It is the CHG and Iranian Plateau DNA that made Yamnaya 'Caucasoid'. But Yamnaya was not 'White' by Anglo-Saxon standards.


https://i.postimg.cc/7YZvXcdf/Yamnaya-2.jpg

LOL@ EHG being Mongolid- thats utter BS

EHG/ANE was the most important factor for light hair

[Armenian Bishop]

For example, do you mark X in white?

I don't understand the question. Are you asking whether I personally check the "White" Box? Or, are you asking whether people in general would check it, if applicable?

As for myself, I've always checked the "White" Box. But, when checking the White Box, we're also encouraged to write in our National (or Ethnic) Origin. So, I both Check "White" and also write in that my ethnic origin is Armenian and Germanic.

[Eline]

LOL@ EHG being Mongolid- thats utter BS

EHG/ANE was the most important factor for light hair
Hair colour says nothing about the skull shapes.

Ancient EHG was actually already mixed between different species. It was partly Mongoloid. EHG was also connected to the Eastern Euroasiatic (mongoloid) Siberian HG related people.


https://i.postimg.cc/ry58Qkr8/aha.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

I would put them closer to Mediterranean countries in terms of skin color. They have a similar tone/hue to their skin, can tan easily etc. etc. because of the climate, similar hair color/type etc.


It seems That You have not seen many north africans in your life, true?

[Immanenz]

Hair colour says nothing about the skull shapes.

Ancient EHG was actually already mixed between different species. It was partly Mongoloid. EHG was also connected to the Eastern Euroasiatic (mongoloid) Siberian HG related people.


https://i.postimg.cc/ry58Qkr8/aha.jpg

well, the skullshape do not indicate that EHG was Mongolized.
Siberian HG had Proto Mongolid influenced, thats the main difference. EHG was fully Europid. If EHG would not be Europid, Yamnaya would not be either, because they were 50 % EHG.

[Nassbean]

It seems That You have not seen many north africans in your life, true?

I'm moroccan why don't you use me as an example ? :rolleyes:

[Nassbean]

If people like CV can be considered white then yes MENA people can be considered white and I'm not saying this for trolling

[Eline]

well, the skullshape do not indicate that EHG was Mongolized.
Siberian HG had Proto Mongolid influenced, thats the main difference. EHG was fully Europid. If EHG would not be Europid, Yamnaya would not be either, because they were 50 % EHG.
I think you are confusing EHG with WHG. Which EHG do you mean?

Some EHG in Western Russia was aready heavily mixed with the WHG and SHG. Left is EHG mixed with WHG


Pure EHG looked like this person on the right:

https://i.postimg.cc/hPv8Wpb3/EHG.png

[gixajo]

Everything is changing. I don't know whether they were homogeneous. Maybe NorthWest Yamnaya people were a little bit different from the SouthEast Yamnaya people.

But according to the current knowledge/paradigm Yamnya was the second stage Proto-Indo-European culture that came to Europe

Indo-Europeans that migrated into the West and Indo-Europeanised the Euro-natives came from the Yamnaya Cultural Horizon (place) during the same period of (time contemporary to) the Yamnaya culture.


So, you can point the first source of the Indo-European people in Europe to the time and space of the Yamnaya Horizon.

Everything makes me think that Yamnaya is something like what that Italian aphorism say :"se non è vero, è ben trovato"

But is only intuition.

[gixajo]

If people like CV can be considered white then yes MENA people can be considered white and I'm not saying this for trolling

:picard1:

[Eline]

This is pure EHG, tell me does he (his skull) look Caucasoid?

https://i.postimg.cc/1zFf1YtP/pure-EHG.jpg

[Oghuz]

White applies to christian Caucasian European population ... a loose ethnoreligious term with no literal meaning. It doesn't apply to us.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

This is pure EHG, tell me does he (his skull) look Caucasoid?

https://i.postimg.cc/1zFf1YtP/pure-EHG.jpg

Pete Postelthwaite!?

[Immanenz]

I think you are confusing EHG with WHG. Which EHG do you mean?

Some EHG in Western Russia was aready heavily mixed with the WHG and SHG. Left is EHG mixed with WHG


Pure EHG looked like this person on the right:

https://i.postimg.cc/hPv8Wpb3/EHG.png

No i did not confuse them because whg was only minor in Yamnaya, EHG was 50 %. So this makes as much sense as saying the sun consists of water

[Dr_Maul]

No i did not confuse them because whg was only minor in Yamnaya, EHG was 50 %. So this makes as much sense as saying the sun consists of water

http://solar-center.stanford.edu/news/sunwater.html

[PaleoEuropean]

According to the U.S. Census Bureau they are.

Discuss.

They are Caucasian, that's why the census says White/Caucasian and also why it says Hispanic/Latino, we lump common things together.

[Eline]

No i did not confuse them because whg was only minor in Yamnaya, EHG was 50 %. So this makes as much sense as saying the sun consists of waterI never said that Yamnaya was fully Caucasoid. Yamnaya was mixed. And Yamnaya was partly Caucasoid mostly due to the Caucasoid West Asian DNA.

Some people in the Yamnaya Horizon more to the north had broad Uralic (EHG) faces and heads, others more to the south had longer heads and narrow faces.

[alpha.ghot]

No they are not white. They don't look white.

[Luso]

White applies to christian Caucasian European population ... a loose ethnoreligious term with no literal meaning. It doesn't apply to us.


Shit doesn't even apply to me and I'm like 100% caucasian. Phenotypically look more MENA imo, and I honestly couldn't give a shit LOL

[Mortimer]

I think more white then anything else because they are really close to meditteranean europeans.

[Pater Patota]

I think you are confusing EHG with WHG. Which EHG do you mean?

Some EHG in Western Russia was aready heavily mixed with the WHG and SHG. Left is EHG mixed with WHG


Pure EHG looked like this person on the right:

https://i.postimg.cc/hPv8Wpb3/EHG.png

It seems Chinese people are our ancestor.

[renaissance12]

Some yes


https://www.barbadillo.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/assad_5.jpg

[Aileron]

Dont think so, unless they can approach my pheno or similar..

[Immanenz]

I never said that Yamnaya was fully Caucasoid. Yamnaya was mixed. And Yamnaya was partly Caucasoid mostly due to the Caucasoid West Asian DNA.

Some people in the Yamnaya Horizon more to the north had broad Uralic (EHG) faces and heads, others more to the south had longer heads and narrow faces.

But skull indicate the total opposite, the more North and more ehg, the more dolicephalic they were...the ehg/ whg as well as chg dominated in the south were shortheaded

[Immanenz]

It seems Chinese people are our ancestor.

Plus we are on average 20 % Chinese

[Ford]

https://www.mencap.org.uk/learning-disability-explained/conditions-linked-learning-disability/autism-and-aspergers-syndrome?gclid=CjwKCAjw7e_0BRB7EiwAlH-goIXIE_pBhjqcwVkiEyolQRVbruK0lylEDg1pe3Gl-3yfe7qEEh3f6hoCg9oQAvD_BwE

You upset?

[Kmakkmak]

MENA from Caucasus,Iran,Anatolia, Levant and some Arabian state such as Iraq, Syria,Egypt.... have CHG rich ancestry. J1 and J2 people.

MENA from Nort Africa have rich E1 ancestry.

[Unknown European]

They are White according to most Government laws but socially Western society in America and Europe does not usually consider them white I would not say a small minority could pass as White/European I would say a third to half of people from MENA could pass as someone from Southern Europe very few could pass as Northern European

[Demhat]

But skull indicate the total opposite, the more North and more ehg, the more dolicephalic they were...the ehg/ whg as well as chg dominated in the south were shortheaded

The skulls found in the Natufians and Levant Neolithic were hyper longheaded. The Anatolian Neolithic skulls are long to medium long headed. The Iranian Neolithic skulls are medium to long headed. In fact the EHG and WHG types were rather broad and mostly medium but sometimes also short headed.

It is no coincidence the further Northeast you go, where the EHG and WHG peak the rounder headed the individuals become.

Reconstruction of La Brana's skull
https://www.20min.ch/dyim/1a8ce8/M600,1000/images/content/3/1/9/31902493/8/topelement.jpg

Reconstruction of Loshbur
https://stock.rtl.lu/rtl/620/rtl2008.lu/nt/p/2014/09/19/07/98fc5dde1f9e60dc8a751c2a86078f46.jpeg

Reconstruction of predominantly Anatolian Farmer (80%) derived man from the British Islands
http://www.westernspring.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Reconstruction-2.jpg

Anatolian Farmer girl from Greece.
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/321725967128025766/?nic_v1=1aJsK1hSUkGEEGZpgnz%2Fjyuj%2Fpqf34WI0iPaqA ZMXqui8pGh7tP9bkHPcU0VeM%2B3gn

Reconstruction of a slightly Younger Oetzi (Anatolian Farmer derived )
https://paulmullins.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/art03_rekonstruktion.jpg

Reconstruction of Iran_Neolithic woman (Kaveh Farrokh
https://kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2-7000-yr-old-woman-Iran.jpg

Reconstruction of Eastern Hunters and Gatherers.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7348&d=1435955475
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/sunghir2.gif

[Immanenz]

The skulls found in the Natufians and Levant Neolithic were hyper longheaded. The Anatolian Neolithic skulls are long to medium long headed. The Iranian Neolithic skulls are long to medium long headed. In fact the EHG and WHG types were rather broad and mostly medium but sometimes also short headed.

It is no coincidence the further Northeast you go, where the EHG and WHG peak the rounder headed the individuals become.

Reconstruction of La Brana's skull
https://www.20min.ch/dyim/1a8ce8/M600,1000/images/content/3/1/9/31902493/8/topelement.jpg

Reconstruction of Loshbur
https://stock.rtl.lu/rtl/620/rtl2008.lu/nt/p/2014/09/19/07/98fc5dde1f9e60dc8a751c2a86078f46.jpeg

Reconstruction of predominantly Anatolian Farmer (80%) derived man from the British Islands
http://www.westernspring.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Reconstruction-2.jpg

Anatolian Farmer girl from Greece.
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/321725967128025766/?nic_v1=1aJsK1hSUkGEEGZpgnz%2Fjyuj%2Fpqf34WI0iPaqA ZMXqui8pGh7tP9bkHPcU0VeM%2B3gn

Reconstruction of a slightly Younger Oetzi (Anatolian Farmer derived )
https://paulmullins.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/art03_rekonstruktion.jpg

Reconstruction of Iran_Neolithic woman (Kaveh Farrokh
https://kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2-7000-yr-old-woman-Iran.jpg

Reconstruction of Eastern Hunters and Gatherers.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7348&d=1435955475
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/sunghir2.gif

Some of those AF reconstructions look WHG admixed.
WHG was extremly low skulled but broad headed. However in northeast of steppe were doli. The more north Yammaya were the more doli, in south they had a stronger chg admix and were short headed in comparison

[Rabbit Hole]

You upset?

Do you have a learning disability?

[Ahana]

Nah, I don't consider them so.

[Rabbit Hole]

Some of those AF reconstructions look WHG admixed.
WHG was extremly low skulled but broad headed. However in northeast of steppe were doli. The more north Yammaya were the more doli, in south they had a stronger chg admix and were short headed in comparison

Is there even a reconstruction of Natufians? I'd like to see if there is?

[Tauromachos]

Is there even a reconstruction of Natufians? I'd like to see if there is?

You!

[Rabbit Hole]

Nah, I don't consider them so.

Europeans came from the Near Easr before Europe, how many of them are left is not calculated.

[Tauromachos]

Europeans came from the Near Easr before Europe, how many of them are left is not calculated.

Thats a German for example
https://www.handelsblatt.com/images/theo-waigel-wird-65/7678932/2-formatOriginal.jpg

[Rabbit Hole]

You!

Makes no sense I literally have five markers from there out of hundreds from Anatolia and I am not long headed I am short headed ( brachycephalic ) so again, makes*no sense.

[Tauromachos]

Makes no sense I literally have five markers from there out of hundreds from Anatolia and I am not long headed I am short headed ( brachycephalic ) so again, thanks no sense.

No you look Natufian

You are a little female Natufian trolling people on TA

[Rabbit Hole]

Thats a German for example
https://www.handelsblatt.com/images/theo-waigel-wird-65/7678932/2-formatOriginal.jpg

Are there any ancient reconstructions? Not that thing.

[Rabbit Hole]

No you look Natufian

You are a little female Natufian trolling people on TA

No I look like what my results were. I know what I am. People troll your thread and instead you blame me.

[Tauromachos]

No I look like what my results were. I know what I am. People troll your thread and instead you blame me.

I'm saying you are trolling

You troll always and at any time regardless of what others do

[Rabbit Hole]

I'm saying you are trolling

You troll always and at any time regardless of what others do

https://snipboard.io/JKSuyq.jpg?fbclid=IwAR2koQQwCnz_QofHlnRjCb0KBlY7ns nz-S5u2xe950FXA0IvKyki6iHwS54

Welcome to civilization.

[Rabbit Hole]

I'm saying you are trolling

You troll always and at any time regardless of what others do

I never trolled you. You made a thread saying that ''how tall are the people on TA'' then some moron says ''hey short brown* trolls'' or whatever the fuck he says and instead of having a go at him like a gentleman, you have a go at me. Why, because it's easier.

I never trolled you, or trolled any of your threads I have not even seen any of your threads to troll them apart from that one. Besides I never trolled that one.

[Rabbit Hole]

I mean wtf you think I have nothing better in my time then to troll people online.

[Immanenz]

Are there any ancient reconstructions? Not that thing.

Lol, that guy does not look Natufian, they were propably TransMed. If i find a reconstruction i ll send you

[Tauromachos]

I never trolled you. You made a thread saying that ''how tall are the people on TA'' then some moron says ''hey short brown* trolls'' or whatever the fuck he says and instead of having a go at him like a gentleman, you have a go at me. Why, because it's easier.

I never trolled you, or trolled any of your threads I have not even seen any of your threads to troll them apart from that one. Besides I never trolled that one.

:thumb down

[Rabbit Hole]

Lol, that guy does not look Natufian, they were propably TransMed. If i find a reconstruction i ll send you

Yes they were they were just pre potterly Neolithic ( pottery period was Neolithic )

https://www.thoughtco.com/natufian-period-hunter-gatherers-171958

[Ford]

Do you have a learning disability?

Nope. Do you?

[Rabbit Hole]

Nope. Do you?

Nope. Incredibly I have three a levels and one o level in history and I am studying for my bachelor's degree in October*. So you can quit with the Anglos are European stuff. Go on VNN for that.

[Tauromachos]

https://snipboard.io/JKSuyq.jpg?fbclid=IwAR2koQQwCnz_QofHlnRjCb0KBlY7ns nz-S5u2xe950FXA0IvKyki6iHwS54



What is this?




Welcome to civilization.

Welcome to Apricity

[Rabbit Hole]

What is this?




Welcome to Apricity

My k36 results on Ged go to the PC and upload it anyway there are a zillion links on Natufian, including the one above. https://www.thoughtco.com/natufian-period-hunter-gatherers-171958 Who they were what they did etc.

[Demhat]

Are there any ancient reconstructions? Not that thing.

Just one page ago I made a comment with reconstructions linked in it.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?320625-Are-MENA-White&p=6645100&viewfull=1#post6645100

[Demhat]

Some of those AF reconstructions look WHG admixed.
WHG was extremly low skulled but broad headed. However in northeast of steppe were doli. The more north Yammaya were the more doli, in south they had a stronger chg admix and were short headed in comparison

Is that a suprise though? Anatolian Farmers are literally a WHG like- Basal Eurasian mix. And WHG itself is literally Dzudzuana like (pre/proto WHG with a drift).

I think allot of people on this board literally missed the Dzudzuana and Anatolian Hunter and Gatherers study release.

[Vožd]

Yes.

[Smeagol]

I mean, you wouldn't really put Mark Zuckerberg as something other than "white" really, look at him.

Mark Zuckerberg looks mostly European because Jewish ancestry is mostly South European. That's why they cluster with South Italians and Greeks rather than Palestinians. I don't know why some people are so keen to make Jews and Arabs "brothers."

As for the Semitic thing, it's a language family, and most Jews outside of Israel speak Indo-European languages natively.


Why is the reason given by US governement to exclude Spaniards from the group of whites and including others like Lebanese or Egyptians?

It doesn't. People of Spanish origin are supposed to mark white and Hispanic. Hispanic itself is not considered a racial category.

[Rabbit Hole]

Just one page ago I made a comment with reconstructions linked in it.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?320625-Are-MENA-White&p=6645100&viewfull=1#post6645100

I haven't been following the pages since i prefer not to have a battle with Nordicists about subjective opinions

[Rabbit Hole]

As for the Semitic thing, it's a language family, and most Jews outside of Israel speak Indo-European languages natively.


No they don't Jews are Semitic and are directly related to Sephardic Jews. Italians and Greeks are South European.





It doesn't. People of Spanish origin are supposed to mark white and Hispanic. Hispanic itself is not considered a racial category.

Hispania is just a Latin term, Spanish and Portuguese are the same so are Iberians

[Rabbit Hole]

Is that a suprise though? Anatolian Farmers are literally a pre WHG-Basal Eurasian mix. And WHG itself is literally Dzudzuana like (pre/proto WHG with a drift).

I think allot of people on this board literally missed the Dzudzuana and Anatolian Hunter and Gatherers study release.

Natufian WERE Hunter Gathering farmers....What the hell?!?

[Tauromachos]

Mark Zuckerberg looks mostly European because Jewish ancestry is mostly South European.


Mark Zuckerberg doesn't look South European

[Smeagol]

No they don't Jews are Semitic and are directly related to Sephardic Jews. Italians and Greeks are South European.

Here's how Jews cluster genetically.
https://image.ibb.co/gKWmqf/EURO-PCA-v3.jpg

And yeah, Sephardic Jews cluster close to Italians and Greeks as well. Semite is a linguistic identity rather than a racial one. You won't find many Jews speaking a Semitic language in America.



Hispania is just a Latin term, Spanish and Portuguese are the same so are Iberians

Hispania in Roman times referred to the Iberian Peninsula. Hispanic in the terminology of the U.S census simply means having origins in a Spanish speaking country.

[Smeagol]

Mark Zuckerberg doesn't look South European

No, he looks more Northern but genetically my point still stands.

[Demhat]

Natufian WERE Hunter Gathering farmers....What the hell?!?
AF means Anatolian Farmers. We were talking about them. Also Natufians basically like the Anatolian Hunters and Gatherers are the groups that made the switch to farmers.

Dzudzuana type ancestry was far more widespred in the Middle East. The difference between Natufians /Levant Neolithic and Anatolian HGs/Farmers is the lvl of Dzudzuana type ancestry vs Basal Eurasian.

[Rabbit Hole]

And yeah, Sephardic Jews cluster close to Italians and Greeks as well. Semite is a linguistic identity rather than a racial one. You won't find many Jews speaking a Semitic language in America.

That's not a clustering chart. Ashkenazis and Sephardics are both ethnic Jewish groups. Greeks and SOUTH Italians are both Greco Roman descendants. Hellenics being Greco.




Hispania in Roman times referred to the Iberian Peninsula. Hispanic in the terminology of the U.S census simply means having origins in a Spanish speaking country.


Hispania was the name described by the Latins ( Romans ) when they conquered Spain and Portugal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h6-IFCw4Ok Science Talk: New Genetic Study Defines the Genetic Map of the Jewish Diasporas

[Rabbit Hole]

AF means Anatolian Farmers. We were talking about them. Also Natufians basically like the Anatolian Hunters and Gatherers are the groups that made the switch to farmers.

Dzudzuana type ancestry was far more widespred in the Middle East. The difference between Natufians /Levant Neolithic and Anatolian HGs/Farmers is the lvl of Dzudzuana type ancestry vs Basal Eurasian.

Natufians were pre pottery Neolithic Hunter Gatherer. Neolithic Anatolians were farmers. Both were Anatolian in origin in ethnic Natufian were in the South Levant, ( fertile cresent ) however, the Anatolian farmers ( who were probably Luwian hittite ) spread out during the Middle to late Bronze Age. Anatolian farmers are EEF early European farmers.

[Rabbit Hole]

AF means Anatolian Farmers. We were talking about them. Also Natufians basically like the Anatolian Hunters and Gatherers are the groups that made the switch to farmers.

Dzudzuana type ancestry was far more widespred in the Middle East. The difference between Natufians /Levant Neolithic and Anatolian HGs/Farmers is the lvl of Dzudzuana type ancestry vs Basal Eurasian.

Natufians were pre pottery Neolithic Hunter Gatherer. Neolithic Anatolians were farmers. Both were Anatolian in origin Natufian were in the South Levant, ( fertile cresent ) however, the Anatolian farmers ( who were probably Luwian hittite ) spread out during the Middle to late Bronze Age. also to the Levant and as far as North Mesopotamia. Anatolian farmers are EEF early European farmers.

[Rabbit Hole]

No, he looks more Northern but genetically my point still stands.

He looks like a de pigmentated Semitic person.

[Smeagol]

That's not a clustering chart.

…Yes it is. Here's another one.
https://i.imgur.com/ANILbO7.png


Ashkenazis and Sephardics are both ethnic Jewish groups.

So are Ethiopian and Yemeni Jews. They don't all cluster together.


Greeks and SOUTH Italians are both Greco Roman descendants. Hellenics being Greco.

Ok?


Hispania was the name described by the Latins ( Romans ) when they conquered Spain and Portugal.

Yes, as I just said. When quoting the other user I was talking about U.S. Census definitions.

[Rabbit Hole]

…Yes it is. Here's another one.
https://i.imgur.com/ANILbO7.png



So are Ethiopian and Yemeni Jews. They don't all cluster together.



Ok?



Yes, as I just said. When quoting the other user I was talking about U.S. Census definitions.

Ashkenazi Jews cluster with Sephardic Jews before Yemeni and Ethipoian Jews and South Europeans

What you have showed me is a Ged match PCA chart which still doesn't show them clustering in line, a direct line to them. It shows that they are in the spectrum of clustering themselves before any European groups, probably because they are not directly in line with Sicilians, or anyone else for that matter. Ashkenazi Jews are explained in the link above like Sephardic Jews are explained. Like it or not, Jews are historically and genetically Jewish..

Yes, South Italians and Sicilians are in line with one another, as proved above in the chart you posted not a seperate cluster.

No what you said was it was refered to as the Iberian Peninsula. No it wasn't it was refered to as the Latin parts of Spain that was conquered by the Romans. Iberia isn't the only part of Spain that was Latin. Both the Spanish and Portuguese are genetically ''Latin/Roman'' near enough and Spain/Portugal is close to Roman genes, and genetics.

[Demhat]

Natufians were pre pottery Neolithic Hunter Gatherer. Neolithic Anatolians were farmers. Both were Anatolian in origin in ethnic Natufian were in the South Levant, ( fertile cresent ) however, the Anatolian farmers ( who were probably Luwian hittite ) spread out during the Middle to late Bronze Age. Anatolian farmers are EEF early European farmers.

You have mixed things up here.

- Anatolian Farmers are not EEF. EEF are Anatolian Farmers.
- Anatolian Farmers reached Europe during the Neolithic. EEF are literally Anatolian Farmers with 0-10% WHG admixture.
- Anatolian Farmers are straight descendens of Anatolian Hunter and Gatherers.
- I know that Natufians were not farmers. There is a reason why I mention Levant_Neolithic seperately too
- Levant Neolithic is straight out descend from Natufians but has some influx from Anatolian Farmers
- the Anatolian Farmers were not Hittite and Luwians. Hittite and Luwians were 50% Iran_Neolithic/CHG and 50% Anatolian Farmer
- Both Natufians and Anatolian H&G differ only in the frequence of Dzudzuana like ancestry vs Basal Eurasian.


First Anatolian farmers were local hunter-gatherers that adopted agriculture

https://phys.org/news/2019-03-anatolian-farmers-local-hunter-gatherers-agriculture.html

[Rabbit Hole]

You have mixed things up here.

- Anatolian Farmers are not EEF. EEF are Anatolian Farmers.
- Anatolian Farmers reached Europe during the Neolithic. EEF are literally Anatolian Farmers with 0-10% WHG admixture.
- Anatolian Farmers are straight descendens of Anatolian Hunter and Gatherers.
- I know that Natufians were not farmers. There is a reason why I mention Levant_Neolithic seperately too
- Levant Neolithic is straight out descend from Natufians but has some influx from Anatolian Farmers
- the Anatolian Farmers were not Hittite and Luwians. Hittite and Luwians were 50% Iran_Neolithic/CHG and 50% Anatolian Farmer
- Both Natufians and Anatolian H&G differ only in the frequence of Dzudzuana like ancestry vs Basal Eurasian.


First Anatolian farmers were local hunter-gatherers that adopted agriculture

https://phys.org/news/2019-03-anatolian-farmers-local-hunter-gatherers-agriculture.html

url]https://phys.org/news/2019-03-anatolian-farmers-local-hunter-gatherers-agriculture.html[/url][/QUOTE]
No I didn't.
EEF are Anatolian farmers, I don't have any doubt of that. EEF just means 'early European farmer' tag them under any ethnicity you want.
Anatolian farmers were European proto European, because the Hittite and other native Anatolians were.
Natufians were Hunter Gathering Anatolians, let's just say other post potttery Anatolians were farmers then forget Neolithic, it's just a time period.

Levant Neolithic is straight descended from Natufians but yes had some imput from other farmers.
I am not talking about how Luwian were farmers, I spoke about how the connection during the Bronze Age Levant and Neolithic was to do with the Hittite.
I would of thought that Natufians and Anatolian H&G ( which is the same and interchangable anyway ) wouldn't differ much in anything.

[Smeagol]

Ashkenazi Jews cluster with Sephardic Jews before Yemeni and Ethipoian Jews and South Europeans

What you have shown me is a Ged match PCA chart which still doesn't show them clustering in line, a direct line to them. It shows that they are in the spectrum of clustering themselves before any European groups, probably because they are not directly in line with Sicilians, or anyone else for that matter. Ashkenazi Jews are explained in the link above like Sephardic Jews are explained.

Ashkenazi Jews do indeed cluster with Sephardic Jews. As both plots posted show, they're also quite close to South Italians and Greeks and fairly distant from any Arab groups. The south Italians are much closer to the Jews than North Italians for example.


Like it or not, Jews are historically and genetically Jewish..

There is a genetic baseness to Jewishness obviously. Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are still far from being pure ancient Hebrews. They also don't cluster with other Semitic speaking peoples.


Yes, South Italians and Sicilians are in line with one another, as proved above in the chart you posted not a seperate cluster.

And Ashkenazi are slightly south and more significantly east of them, but still much closer than to Arabs or whoever.


No what you said was it was refered to as the Iberian Peninsula. No it wasn't it was refered to as the Latin parts of Spain that was conquered by the Romans. Iberia isn't the only part of Spain that was Latin. Both the Spanish and Portuguese are genetically ''Latin/Roman'' near enough and Spain/Portugal is close to Roman genes, and genetics.

I said the Iberian Peninsula was referred to as Hispania by the Romans after you quoted me. My first post was just clarifying how the U.S census classified people from Spain. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Iberia isn't a "part of Spain" it's a peninsula which is divided by the countries of Spain, Portugal, Andorra, and a small area of France.

[Rabbit Hole]

Ashkenazi Jews do indeed cluster with Sephardic Jews. As both plots posted show, they're also quite close to South Italians and Greeks and fairly distant from any Arab groups. The south Italians are much closer to the Jews than North Italians for example.



There is a genetic baseness to Jewishness obviously. Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are still far from being pure ancient Hebrews. They also don't cluster with other Semitic speaking peoples.



And Ashkenazi are slightly south and more significantly east of them, but still much closer than to Arabs or whoever.



I said the Iberian Peninsula was referred to as Hispania by the Romans after you quoted me. My first post was just clarifying how the U.S census classified people from Spain. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Iberia isn't a "part of Spain" it's a peninsula which is divided by the countries of Spain, Portugal, Andorra, and a small area of France.

You don't understand how Ged match works. Ashekenazis lack a Levant/Eastern Med imput even more so than Europeans like Cypriots and Sicilians. But Sicilians and even Cypriots are closer to Europeans than what Ashkenazis are. Who btw are a straight forward cut between mainland South Europeans and Semitics which is isolated. You don't know how K36 and Euro genes works, even if their scores look like South Europeans, they aren't. Because they're not in line, it's that simple. Ashkenazi Jews are Arabs, and Asians too by definition that's what they are.

Ashkenazis and Sephardics cluster with themselves before any ethnic group on earth, before the damn Near East/Levant that was explained in countless posts above, before South Europe before anyone else. They descend from one another literally. So even if their scores look South European on Euro genes and K36 they are not.

No your post was quite clear, Hispania was the name given by the Romans to describe the Latin populations of Spain ( and probably Portugal ) get it right.

[Rabbit Hole]

And if you want to compare North Italy to South Italy although God knows why since both are Mediterranean populations, here is one Ozti, very North of the Alps with a genetic ''much more Near Eastern origin'' than modern North Italians so we all know who is indigenous, thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi

[Rabbit Hole]

And if you want to compare North Italy to South Italy although God knows why since both are Mediterranean populations, here is one Ozti, very North of the Alps with a genetic ''much more Near Eastern origin'' than modern North Italians so we all know who is indigenous, thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi

[Smeagol]

You don't understand how Ged match works.

No, sorry that seems to be you.


Ashekenazis lack a Levant/Eastern Med imput even more so than Europeans like Cypriots and Sicilians.

No they don't, that's the biggest component of their ancestry if you actually look at Jewish results.


But Sicilians and even Cypriots are closer to Europeans than what Ashkenazis are.

Sicilians are. Cypriots are not. They're closer to Semites/Arabs than Jews are.


Who btw are a straight forward cut between mainland South Europeans and Semitics which is isolated. You don't know how K36 and Euro genes works, even if their scores look like South Europeans, they aren't. Because they're not in line, it's that simple.

Lol, okay the scores aren't actually what the tests are saying they are.


Ashkenazi Jews are Arabs

Uh, no, not under any definition.


Ashkenazis and Sephardics cluster with themselves before any ethnic group on earth, before the damn Near East/Levant that was explained in countless posts above, before South Europe before anyone else.

Actually, again if you look at individual Jewish results you'll sometimes see they're scoring closer to other groups than each other.


They descend from one another literally.

No. They both descend from a group of Italian Jews who migrated in different directions.


No your post was quite clear, Hispania was the name given by the Romans to describe the Latin populations of Spain ( and probably Portugal ) get it right.

Here's a map of Roman Hispania:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Conquista_Hispania.svg

As you can see it included the whole Iberian peninsula. All Iberian groups were conquered and latinized by the Romans. The Romans used the terms Iberian and Hispani interchangeably but none of this is relevant to my original post about the census.

[Rabbit Hole]

No, sorry that seems to be you.



No they don't, that's the biggest component of their ancestry if you actually look at Jewish results.



Sicilians are. Cypriots are not. They're closer to Semites/Arabs than Jews are.



Lol, okay the scores aren't actually what the tests are saying they are.



Uh, no, not under any definition.



Actually, again if you look at individual Jewish results you'll sometimes see they're scoring closer to other groups than each other.



No. They both descend from a group of Italian Jews who migrated in different directions.



Here's a map of Roman Hispania:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Conquista_Hispania.svg

As you can see it included the whole Iberian peninsula. All Iberian groups were conquered and latinized by the Romans. The Romans used the terms Iberian and Hispani interchangeably but none of this is relevant to my original post about the census.
No it doesn't seem to be me, it seems to be the case on pca charts and the one above which shows they're not in line.

The biggest component is them being related to Sephardic Jews before South Europeans and anyone else, I would of thought that's a vital fact.

No lol if you go by the fact they aren't in line on pca charts. Cypriots and Sicilians have Levantine Bronze Age and Iron Age Anatolian samples, as do modern day Levantines with the similar genetic make up to Cypriots which is actually a combination of ancient Greek samples and Anatolian samples ( as proven by the PCA chart above ) so sadly for you that statement about Sicilians and Cypriots being more Arab than Ashkenazis is historically incorrect.

Er yes, under both including their own as proved by the link above who conducted tests on ''European Jews'' ( Ashkenazi an Sephardic ) compared with ''Middle Eastern Jews'' when they found their Y chromosone to be genetically the same.

Again, Ashkenazis cluster with Sephardic Jews on all tests done on them respectedly.

[templumForasticus]

Always I'm surprised by this 'white' word's roots & profusion as colective in angloGermanFinnoSphere.

They're Arabs, Amazight, I dont know, some of them 'whites' -less-black, of course hard to pass in Scandinavia or Hannover, I suppose by this fact some here call their whole race into question...

[Rabbit Hole]

http://www.spainthenandnow.com/spanish-history/rome-and-hispania

it's listed here

[templumForasticus]

I am semiban or this forum has too many Javascript lines

[Rabbit Hole]

Always I'm surprised by this 'white' word's roots & profusion as colective in angloGermanFinnoSphere.

They're Arabs, Amazight, I dont know, some of them 'whites' -less-black, of course hard to pass in Scandinavia or Hannover, I suppose by this fact some here call their whole race into question...

This is just a different debate and it's so complicated that we must look at the past 7,000 years of history. Even 100 years ago people would say derogatory things about the Irish you know, of course now people understand anthropology a lot better.

[Smeagol]

Er yes, under both including their own as proved by the link above who conducted tests on ''European Jews'' ( Ashkenazi an Sephardic ) compared with ''Middle Eastern Jews'' when they found their Y chromosone to be genetically the same.

Okay, I'm getting bored here, and I guess it's already apparent to anyone who knows about genetics that you don't really know what you're talking about, so I'll just respond to this. First of all, Jews, like any other group, don't al have the same Y-DNA. In their case, their Y-DNA is mostly Levantine though, while their Mt-DNA is mostly European as this study shows: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 Y-DNA, however, makes up a very small part of your overall ancestry.

Second, this has nothing to do with being Arab. Even most Mizrahi Jews are not Arab.

[Son of Argentina]

They're certainly Caucasian, but only a slight proportion of them would be seen as White in Western countries, including the United States.

[Rabbit Hole]

They're certainly Caucasian, but only a slight proportion of them would be seen as White in Western countries, including the United States.

Like I explained to the autist, different populations have different clusters and their own history to tell.

[Son of Argentina]

Like I explained to the autist, different populations have different clusters and their own history to tell.

Yeah, that's about it.

[Rabbit Hole]

Okay, I'm getting bored here, and I guess it's already apparent to anyone who knows about genetics that you don't really know what you're talking about, so I'll just respond to this. First of all, Jews, like any other group, don't al have the same Y-DNA. In their case, their Y-DNA is mostly Levantine though, while their Mt-DNA is mostly European as this study shows: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 Y-DNA, however, makes up a very small part of your overall ancestry.

Second, this has nothing to do with being Arab. Even most Mizrahi Jews are not Arab.
I am getting bored too, stick to what you know which is jack shit. If you don't want to believe me fine, but you can believe Jewish scientists when they say both the Y chromosones in ''European Jews'' and ''Middle Eastern Jews'' is the same by their findings on these people.


And this is what they say and they claim. At this point it's not even my opinion so run along and be a good little boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h6-IFCw4Ok&t=7s Science Talk: New Genetic Study Defines the Genetic Map of the Jewish Diasporas

[Tooting Carmen]

Not as a whole but they have some individuals who are.

[Pɪᴇᴛʀᴏ Cʜᴀʀᴅᴏɴɴᴇ]

Talk about running in circles.

No, they're not.

[Dean K]

If mena include Levantine so yes but only about 35% in Lebanon and Jordan. In Israel 60% are white (the jews) almost like greece.

[Finnish Swede]

All to same for me as long as anybody will not start call them scandinavians (and same goes with many many others).

[Son of Argentina]

If mena include Levantine so yes but only about 35% in Lebanon and Jordan. In Israel 60% are white (the jews) almost like greece.

Only Ashkenazis are White.

[Dean K]

Only Ashkenazis are White.

Also Separdic and North african Jews and also Syrian Iraq and Iranian Jews are most of them white. Alot of North african jews have blue eyes and Iraq Jews blue eyes Jewish are diffrent they mixed with European only Yemen and Indian Jews and Etihopian are dark/black

[Dean K]

Only Ashkenazis are White.

Also Separdic and North african Jews and also Syrian Iraq and Iranian Jews are most of them white. Alot of North african jews have blue eyes and Iraq Jews blue eyes Jewish are diffrent they mixed with European only Yemen and Indian Jews and Etihopian are dark/black

[Swarthy_Syndicate]

Indians are not considred 'Caucasoids'. Indians, like Pakistani are considered South Asians by the American census, they are something different, a mixture between Caucasoids and Australoids

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Y6V50N/black-white.png



Turks can never be considere 'white' because Turks have non-Caucasoid Altaic/Mongoloid/East Asian roots. Also, Turks speak a non-Caucasoid language as their mother tongue.

Depends which part of India they are from TBH. North Indians and Pakistanis are mostly Caucasoid. Even some Pashtuns/Baloch in Pakistan are more likely to have slight Mongoloid influence from Harazas in Afghanistan than say Australoid.

Overall South Asia is quite mixed but I'd say the majority of the gene pool is racially Caucasoid. They certainly aren't more than 25% Australoid in most cases.

[LittleDarkAge]

No.

[Gallop]

Nosotros con nuestros queridos hispanoamericanos, no hay problemas para nuestra forma de pensar, pero sí para la forma de pensar del resto del mundo y es una forma de que no se vea la parte europea de los hispanoamericanos, el mejor método atacar a la raíz.
Me imagino cual es el país "amigo" europeo que ha conseguido influir en esta clasificación para españoles sacándolos de "white"

We with our dear Hispanic Americans, there are no problems for our way of thinking, but there are problems for the way of thinking of the rest of the world and it is a way of not seeing the European part of the Hispanic Americans, the best method is to attack the root.
I can imagine which is the "friendly" European country that has managed to influence this classification for Spaniards by taking them out of "white".

[Loki]

I can imagine which is the "friendly" European country that has managed to influence this classification for Spaniards by taking them out of "white".

Which country is that?

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

so, according to that USA census form, Egyptians are white xD

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

Nosotros con nuestros queridos hispanoamericanos, no hay problemas para nuestra forma de pensar, pero sí para la forma de pensar del resto del mundo y es una forma de que no se vea la parte europea de los hispanoamericanos, el mejor método atacar a la raíz.
Me imagino cual es el país "amigo" europeo que ha conseguido influir en esta clasificación para españoles sacándolos de "white"

We with our dear Hispanic Americans, there are no problems for our way of thinking, but there are problems for the way of thinking of the rest of the world and it is a way of not seeing the European part of the Hispanic Americans, the best method is to attack the root.
I can imagine which is the "friendly" European country that has managed to influence this classification for Spaniards by taking them out of "white".

they are classified as white. but "ethnically" hispanic too

a spaniard should tick yes to hispanic and write "spaniard", in section 8
and also tick yes for white and write spaniard, in section 9

[Armenian Bishop]

Nosotros con nuestros queridos hispanoamericanos, no hay problemas para nuestra forma de pensar, pero sí para la forma de pensar del resto del mundo y es una forma de que no se vea la parte europea de los hispanoamericanos, el mejor método atacar a la raíz.
Me imagino cual es el país "amigo" europeo que ha conseguido influir en esta clasificación para españoles sacándolos de "white"

We with our dear Hispanic Americans, there are no problems for our way of thinking, but there are problems for the way of thinking of the rest of the world and it is a way of not seeing the European part of the Hispanic Americans, the best method is to attack the root.
I can imagine which is the "friendly" European country that has managed to influence this classification for Spaniards by taking them out of "white".

Here in California, more than a few times, Hispanic People have engaged me with extreme politeness. On one occasion, an older Costa Rican Couple invited me and my 90 year old mother into their house, to enjoy a cup of tea and a pleasant chat. They saw my mom and I walking by their front yard, and simply approached us to offer some tea. They looked like typical Southern Europeans, but had immigrated to America from Costa Rica.

[Corporate_Demolisher]

Indians are not considred 'Caucasoids'. Indians, like Pakistani are considered South Asians by the American census, they are something different, a mixture between Caucasoids and Australoids

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Y6V50N/black-white.png



Turks can never be considere 'white' because Turks have non-Caucasoid Altaic/Mongoloid/East Asian roots. Also, Turks speak a non-Caucasoid language as their mother tongue.

There is no such thing as a "Caucasoid language" group lmao. Arabs don't speak an Indo-European language yet they are fully Caucasoid.

[Corporate_Demolisher]

TBH I would consider the original Berbers to be white. Levantine Semites it would depend, a good portion of them are white too.

[Chocolate_Hound]

No they aren't, a small minority could pass as white (thanks to DNA recombination) but that's about it.

Actually it isn't a "small minority" it is quite a large amount in my experience, in fact the MENA population in certain areas is severely undercounted because of this.

[Chocolate_Hound]

No they are not white. They don't look white.

I disagree, many Turks and even Arabs are pretty f*ing white, you just probably don't notice them because again... they're white.

[Chocolate_Hound]

They're certainly Caucasian, but only a slight proportion of them would be seen as White in Western countries, including the United States.

Most Levantines easily pass as white in the US.

[Borealis]

Most Levantines easily pass as white in the US.

Don’t even bother. The forum is collectively in denial about this. Idiots just think that because white Americans are mostly of Ango/Germanic roots, that only people who look northern or Central European can pass as American. It completely neglects the fact that
1. Americans are dumb as shit
2. A large proportion of America is non-white and has a much lower passing threshold for white than even white Americans

[Rafael Passoni]

Yes, they are.

[Chocolate_Hound]

The point is the whole agenda about it.

It seems some people just want to create a scenario where "everyone want to be white" just because this puts his group on a proper status. It's like saying "everyone want to be tall" just because you're and created some aura about it just to feel better.

The real answer about it should be 'who cares', but given the US (and Latin American context as another example): maybe. If people treat you as white before knowing your context/background, you're white, period.

^ This. Perception is the most important thing in America. So-called "white-passing" people are privileged to the point that they can pretty much LARP as white and nobody will question them. A visibly non-white person will never have that sort of assurance, no matter how "white" he acts or tries to present himself. His phenotype will always precede him.

Stuff like your name and religion can be changed. If Erdogan converted to Christianity and moved to live in Europe, he would be seen as a white man. This is proof as race as a social construct. Erdogan can be either white or a POC, depending on the circumstances that are used against him. So really, white-passing people are people who are functionally white, but due to social gatekeeping, are excluded from the "white" race and are left in this limbo of not really belonging to either white people or people of color.

So in cases like Turkey and the Levant, they are assumed to be "non-white" people because that's what's been taught to us through media propaganda, but the reality is that many of the people living in these countries are fully white, they just don't want to accept this.

So I would think in an American context your phenotype reigns supreme and is ultimately the decider of whether you have white privilege or not. No matter your cultural background, if you look white, you are more privileged than someone who does not not. There is no "after figuring out who you are really are". In most cases that's not even important. It's essential that you look like them.

[Borealis]

Once again I don’t agree with the whole white=white passing crap. Erdogan also can’t pass in Europe as far as I can tell.


Calling Levantines white would be very insulting to them regardless of if they can pass or not. Their history culture and genetics is very different to real “white people”.

[Chocolate_Hound]

White is for me on a personal lvl someone who looks typically Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Slavic. Everybody who resembles their looks/phenotypes could be seen as white in my book, everyone who doesn't look like that is not white. White for me is purely an appearance thing, nothing to do with genetics or the country you live in. Therefor a minority of MENA could pass as 'white' because they have that 'look' on them.

I assume you don't consider Mediterraneans as "looking white" then? Because you missed that in your points.

Cuz if Mediterraneans look white, then I assure, a SHIT TON of MENA look white then.

[Chocolate_Hound]

Don’t even bother. The forum is collectively in denial about this. Idiots just think that because white Americans are mostly of Ango/Germanic roots, that only people who look northern or Central European can pass as American. It completely neglects the fact that
1. Americans are dumb as shit
2. A large proportion of America is non-white and has a much lower passing threshold for white than even white Americans

+100. Mediterranean appearance is fully white in America, and at least a third of MENA fall under this phenotype despite what people seem to think.

[aherne]

All Europeans, West Asians and North Africans are part of caucasoid (aka White) race. Europeans are a regional subset of that race

[StonyArabia]

Nope we are not White. We never were “White” to begin with.

[Östsvensk]

You can ask Linda Sarsour if she is white.

https://twitter.com/lsarsour/status/616090017954463744?lang=en

[Chocolate_Hound]

Once again I don’t agree with the whole white=white passing crap. Erdogan also can’t pass in Europe as far as I can tell.


Calling Levantines white would be very insulting to them regardless of if they can pass or not. Their history culture and genetics is very different to real “white people”.

There is no "white people" history, there is a Mediterranean history and Levantines were a massive part of it, look at the Greek, Roman and Byzantine influences, the entire region shares a common history and interaction with each other. By that logic I guess Mediterranean people aren't white because their culture and phenotype also differs noticeably from Germanic/Nordic Europeans. That has nothing to do with it lol. They are white demographically. That's all that it means. Racially Caucasian.

[Borealis]

There is no "white people" history, there is a Mediterranean history and Levantines were a massive part of it, look at the Greek, Roman and Byzantine influences, the entire region shares a common history and interaction with each other. By that logic I guess Mediterranean people aren't white because their culture and phenotype also differs noticeably from Germanic/Nordic Europeans. That has nothing to do with it lol. They are white demographically. That's all that it means. Racially Caucasian.

"White" civilization does not exist but if we used white as a synonym for European peoples, then we can also argue that something called "white history" exists as a conglomeration of all the history of the different European civilizations(Germanic, Mediterranean, Slavic, Celtic). With that in mind, the Levantines became so drifted from the Romans and Byzantines after the year 700 that at this point they cannot honestly be considered a part of that civilization. They don't see themselves as the heirs to those Mediterranean civilizations the way Greeks or Italians do anyway, they see themselves as part of a separate one(Arabian/Islamic).

[Cristiano viejo]

"White" civilization does not exist
hahaha

[SouthDutch7991]

Sometimes. MENA is varied even with countries. Some MENA people are 99% West Eurasian, some are less than 50%. I think anyone who is assigned 95% West Eurasian or more in a K5 admixture run can be called white regardless of phenotype. Caucasoid and white are not the same, because not all Caucasoids are genetically 100% ( or 100% effective, less than 3% will be marginal and is found in scandis, and most non-Brits and non-sardinians in a deep analysis.

[Flub]

Nope, not at all.

[Creoda]

White race = European blood, from a mixture of Proto Indo Europeans and Neolithic Farmers
White culture = Predominantly Indo-European and Christian

MENA are neither, they are at most uncapitalised white, referring to their colour. There was never a united White/European Civilisation historically, and there arguably still isn't. Any sense of a united and continuous White Civilisation, euphemistically The West, begins in Medieval Western Europe - Western Christendom. That now extends to most or all of Europe, and the White nations overseas.

[Alazair]

White race = European blood, from a mixture of Proto Indo Europeans and Neolithic Farmers
White culture = Predominantly Indo-European and Christian



doesn't make sense be more precise pls

latinos, north africans, anatolians, etc all have "european blood", many MENAs have "proto indo european" blood some even at the level of europeans, neolithic farmer ancestry is found all over MENA with anatolians, levantines and berbers reaching easily 40-50%

there is no "indo-european" culture that's a linguistic family that spread from India to England and christianity was born in the middle east and most of its early fathers were MENAs

[Zanzibar]

doesn't make sense be more precise pls

latinos, north africans, anatolians, etc all have "european blood", many MENAs have "proto indo european" blood some even at the level of europeans, neolithic farmer ancestry is found all over MENA with anatolians, levantines and berbers reaching easily 40-50%

there is no "indo-european" culture that's a linguistic family that spread from India to England and christianity was born in the middle east and most of its early fathers were MENAs

This. Even Peninsular Arabs like Saudis, Yemenis and Horn Africans have Neolithic Farmer ancestry. Some Bedouins, Saudis, Yemenis also have very tiny amounts of Steppe.

[Creoda]

doesn't make sense be more precise pls

latinos, north africans, anatolians, etc all have "european blood", many MENAs have "proto indo european" blood some even at the level of europeans, neolithic farmer ancestry is found all over MENA with anatolians, levantines and berbers reaching easily 40-50%

there is no "indo-european" culture that's a linguistic family that spread from India to England and christianity was born in the middle east and most of its early fathers were MENAs
More specific? Having specifically European blood. Scoring as a European in a dna test, not just partially. Mentioning PIEs and Farmers was just describing the fundamental racial elements on which it's based.

One of the Indo-European derived cultures of Europe (Celtic/Germanic/Slavic/Romance etc, and their derivatives), and one of the Christian sects of Europe (Catholicism/Protestantism/Greek Orthodoxy). I could have just said 'European culture', but that is vague, and what are the 2 cultural things that Europeans have most in common? Indo-European and Christian heritage.

And before you start trying to tear apart the idea of unified Whiteness/Europeanness, I don't really care or feel strongly about it - these are just the most obvious things besides looks that separate 'Whites' from MENAs, and it is broadly socially understood.

[Comealongwithme]

That depends. Do you consider the Roman emperors, Elagabalus, Philip the Arab, Severus Alexander, Macrinus and Aemilianus White?

[StonyArabia]

That depends. Do you consider the Roman emperors, Elagabalus, Philip the Arab, Severus Alexander, Macrinus and Aemilianus White?

No unless they were ethnic Romans. Philip the Arab Serbs to be ethnically Arab. So no he is not White lol.

[Alazair]

More specific? Having specifically European blood. Scoring as a European in a dna test, not just partially. Mentioning PIEs and Farmers was just describing the fundamental racial elements on which it's based.

One of the Indo-European derived cultures of Europe (Celtic/Germanic/Slavic/Romance etc, and their derivatives), and one of the Christian sects of Europe (Catholicism/Protestantism/Greek Orthodoxy). I could have just said 'European culture', but that is vague, and what are the 2 cultural things that Europeans have most in common? Indo-European and Christian heritage.

And before you start trying to tear apart the idea of unified Whiteness/Europeanness, I don't really care or feel strongly about it - these are just the most obvious things besides looks that separate 'Whites' from MENAs, and it is broadly socially understood.

What's "European blood" ? Swedes don't have the same genetic profile as italians and the latter don't have the same as russians etc

Latinos have indo-european derived cultures + christianity as their main religion. Also the groups you mentionned are all about dialects/languages there aren't any "celtic" or "romance" culture except if you want to go back to ancient times.

I'm not trying to tear apart anything just pointing out how "blurry" your definition is.

[Armenian Bishop]

Nope we are not White. We never were “White” to begin with.

I don't necessarily agree. I don't know whether you're talking about Arabic People, or the Middle Eastern People in their entirety, but regardless of that, the US Census Bureau doesn't agree with you.

[Armenian Bishop]

There is no "white people" history, there is a Mediterranean history and Levantines were a massive part of it, look at the Greek, Roman and Byzantine influences, the entire region shares a common history and interaction with each other. By that logic I guess Mediterranean people aren't white because their culture and phenotype also differs noticeably from Germanic/Nordic Europeans. That has nothing to do with it lol. They are white demographically. That's all that it means. Racially Caucasian.

You're Right

[Hoosierboy]

Not White but they are scientifically Caucasoid.

[mashail]

MENA are caucasoid some r white but the majority with olive skin and dark hair.

Arabians
https://i.imgur.com/4myIXqg.png
https://i.imgur.com/GIlMZYH.png

Yemenis
https://i.imgur.com/j0tqy9F.png

North Africans
Moroccans
https://i.imgur.com/wMzXpEF.png

Egyptians
https://i.imgur.com/Y2cV0em.png

levantine
https://i.imgur.com/0RG2vqu.png

Iraqi
https://i.imgur.com/izzdPJ0.png
https://i.imgur.com/o4JRjn9.png

so if u noticed the majority hardly pass in Europe but obviously caucasoid.