Hellenistic era Anatolians on G25.

[Voskos]

I just noticed the two Iron Age samples from Anatolia are actually assigned to the Hellenistic period in the original study:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2018/05/08/science.aar7711.DC1

Here's their coordinates (taken from Davidski's official spreadsheet) in case you're interested

Unscaled:

Anatolia_IA:MA2198,0.0079,0.006,-0.0025,-0.0102,-0.0072,-0.005,0.0013,0.0026,-0.0102,-0.0022,-0.0022,0.0005,0.0085,0.0019,-0.001,-0.0013,0.005,0.0049,0.0033,-0.0016,-0.0037,0.0016,-0.0023,0.0001,-0.0017

Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197,0.0099,0.0152,0.0077,-0.0097,0.0101,-0.0041,-0.0068,-0.009,-0.0014,0.0201,0.0074,-0.0012,-0.0103,-0.0005,-0.0237,-0.0076,0.0167,-0.0034,0.0078,-0.016,-0.0151,-0.0042,0.0002,-0.0072,-0.0047
Scaled:

Anatolia_IA:MA2198,0.08992,0.060932,-0.009428,-0.032946,-0.022158,-0.013945,0.003055,0.006,-0.020861,-0.004009,-0.003573,0.000749,0.012636,0.002615,-0.001357,-0.001724,0.006519,0.006208,0.004148,-0.002001,-0.004617,0.001978,-0.002835,0.00012,-0.002036

Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197,0.112685,0.15436,0.0290 38,-0.031331,0.031083,-0.011435,-0.015981,-0.020768,-0.002863,0.036629,0.012017,-0.001798,-0.015312,-0.000688,-0.032166,-0.010077,0.021774,-0.004307,0.009804,-0.02001,-0.018842,-0.005193,0.000246,-0.008676,-0.005628

[JohnnyP]

Good Morning sunshine.
One fully Anatolian is named by Mytrueancestry like Seleucid :DBtw i think is closer to Turks.

[Rabbit Hole]

I just noticed the two Iron Age samples from Anatolia are actually assigned to the Hellenistic period in the original study:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2018/05/08/science.aar7711.DC1

Here's their coordinates (taken from Davidski's official spreadsheet) in case you're interested

Unscaled:

Anatolia_IA:MA2198,0.0079,0.006,-0.0025,-0.0102,-0.0072,-0.005,0.0013,0.0026,-0.0102,-0.0022,-0.0022,0.0005,0.0085,0.0019,-0.001,-0.0013,0.005,0.0049,0.0033,-0.0016,-0.0037,0.0016,-0.0023,0.0001,-0.0017

Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197,0.0099,0.0152,0.0077,-0.0097,0.0101,-0.0041,-0.0068,-0.009,-0.0014,0.0201,0.0074,-0.0012,-0.0103,-0.0005,-0.0237,-0.0076,0.0167,-0.0034,0.0078,-0.016,-0.0151,-0.0042,0.0002,-0.0072,-0.0047
Scaled:

Anatolia_IA:MA2198,0.08992,0.060932,-0.009428,-0.032946,-0.022158,-0.013945,0.003055,0.006,-0.020861,-0.004009,-0.003573,0.000749,0.012636,0.002615,-0.001357,-0.001724,0.006519,0.006208,0.004148,-0.002001,-0.004617,0.001978,-0.002835,0.00012,-0.002036

Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197,0.112685,0.15436,0.0290 38,-0.031331,0.031083,-0.011435,-0.015981,-0.020768,-0.002863,0.036629,0.012017,-0.001798,-0.015312,-0.000688,-0.032166,-0.010077,0.021774,-0.004307,0.009804,-0.02001,-0.018842,-0.005193,0.000246,-0.008676,-0.005628

What's this about and what type of people was this?

[Rabbit Hole]

I just noticed the two Iron Age samples from Anatolia are actually assigned to the Hellenistic period in the original study:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2018/05/08/science.aar7711.DC1

Here's their coordinates (taken from Davidski's official spreadsheet) in case you're interested

Unscaled:

Anatolia_IA:MA2198,0.0079,0.006,-0.0025,-0.0102,-0.0072,-0.005,0.0013,0.0026,-0.0102,-0.0022,-0.0022,0.0005,0.0085,0.0019,-0.001,-0.0013,0.005,0.0049,0.0033,-0.0016,-0.0037,0.0016,-0.0023,0.0001,-0.0017

Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197,0.0099,0.0152,0.0077,-0.0097,0.0101,-0.0041,-0.0068,-0.009,-0.0014,0.0201,0.0074,-0.0012,-0.0103,-0.0005,-0.0237,-0.0076,0.0167,-0.0034,0.0078,-0.016,-0.0151,-0.0042,0.0002,-0.0072,-0.0047
Scaled:

Anatolia_IA:MA2198,0.08992,0.060932,-0.009428,-0.032946,-0.022158,-0.013945,0.003055,0.006,-0.020861,-0.004009,-0.003573,0.000749,0.012636,0.002615,-0.001357,-0.001724,0.006519,0.006208,0.004148,-0.002001,-0.004617,0.001978,-0.002835,0.00012,-0.002036

Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197,0.112685,0.15436,0.0290 38,-0.031331,0.031083,-0.011435,-0.015981,-0.020768,-0.002863,0.036629,0.012017,-0.001798,-0.015312,-0.000688,-0.032166,-0.010077,0.021774,-0.004307,0.009804,-0.02001,-0.018842,-0.005193,0.000246,-0.008676,-0.005628

What's this about and what type of people was this?

[Kaspias]

I believe both are Thracian and not legit Anatolians, that's why we don't use them as while modeling for modern Anatolians.

Anatolian_IA:MA2198 on Gedmatch (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?293610-Anatolian_IA-MA2198-on-Gedmatch)

[SharpFork]

Holly molly clickbait, I thought this was something newer.

[Rabbit Hole]

I believe both are Thracian and not legit Anatolians, that's why we don't use them as while modeling for modern Anatolians.

Anatolians are Hittites, nothing more nothing less.

[Kaspias]

Anatolians are Hittites, nothing more nothing less.

Shut the fuck up, nothing more nothing less.

[SharpFork]

I believe both are Thracian and not legit Anatolians, that's why we don't use them as while modeling for modern Anatolians.
Thracian with 1/8 East Eurasian, probably some weird mix of a Western Scythian.

[Voskos]

What's this about and what type of people was this?

Ancient Anatolian people from the Hellenistic kingdoms.

[Kaspias]

Thracian with 1/8 East Eurasian, probably some weird mix of a Western Scythian.

Yeah, I agree actually, gets half Cimmerian.

low res one seems indeed Balkanic, but it is low res :D

[Rabbit Hole]

Good Morning sunshine.
One fully Anatolian is named by Mytrueancestry like Seleucid :DBtw i think is closer to Turks.

It's closer to Bronze Age Hittites who were Canaanites which mytrueancestry loves to label ( Semites ) because they ( Canaanites ) spoke Arabic.

But they label Ashkenazi Jews on mytrueancestry as being Greco Roman in descent. Conclusion don't use mytrueancetry as a barometer it's a scam, all it does is take the info already on Ged and charges people for samples that are sampled ''Roman'' instead of Western Med.

[SharpFork]

Yeah, I agree actually, gets half Cimmerian.

low res one seems indeed Balkanic, but it is low res :D
I don't know about half, 12% is a lot for Western Iron Age Scythians, probably full, you could check by comparing to Scythian samples, there are tons.

[Rabbit Hole]

Ancient Anatolian people from the Hellenistic kingdoms.

Which was? Hellenas who hung around Anatolia since the ( I can only assume ) the Hellenistic period? Or literal Anatolians?

[Rabbit Hole]

Ancient Anatolian people from the Hellenistic kingdoms.

Which was? Hellenas who hung around Anatolia since the ( I can only assume ) the Hellenistic period? Or literal Anatolians?

[JohnnyP]

Distance to: Anatolia_IA:MA2198
0.02307631 Turkish_Aydin
0.02450923 Turkish_Northwest
0.02463727 Turkish_Balikesir
0.02573580 Turkish_Southwest
0.02874516 Turkish_South
0.03024577 Turkish_North
0.03943344 Turkish_Central
0.04582832 Turkish_Adana
0.04783415 Turkish_Istanbul
0.05089950 Turkish_Kayseri
0.05742549 Azeri
0.06162811 Kumyk
0.06229081 Azeri_Turkey
0.06333719 Kabardin
0.06403161 Azeri_Dagestan
0.06742232 Abazin
0.06776963 Karachay
0.06779724 Cherkes
0.06863898 Circassian
0.07161825 Balkar
0.07211149 Turkish_Balkans
0.07751844 Iranian_Fars
0.07830606 Iranian_Seyyed
0.07834267 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.07891496 Ezid




Distance to: Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197
0.05651091 Albanian
0.05894742 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05902022 Greek_Thessaly
0.05908618 French_Corsica
0.05967339 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.06094072 Italian_Umbria
0.06147680 Italian_Tuscany
0.06300687 Italian_Lazio
0.06341593 Italian_Marche
0.06370413 Italian_Molise
0.06385073 Greek_Izmir
0.06386736 Italian_Piedmont
0.06438269 Italian_Bergamo
0.06487521 Italian_Abruzzo
0.06562475 Italian_Apulia
0.06679322 Swiss_Italian
0.06707768 Italian_Lombardy
0.06737025 Italian_Basilicata
0.06790255 Italian_Veneto
0.07005322 Italian_Campania
0.07017656 Italian_Liguria
0.07071612 Italian_Calabria
0.07080181 Sicilian_West
0.07102763 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.07118922 Sicilian_East
0.07295971 Maltese
0.07321984 Italian_Northeast
0.07495699 Moldovan
0.07540309 Spanish_Menorca
0.07558039 Spanish_Baleares
0.07579705 Macedonian
0.07629322 Bulgarian
0.07637080 Gagauz
0.07664078 Spanish_Murcia
0.07837883 Greek_Crete
0.07848113 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.07848385 Spanish_Mallorca

[Rabbit Hole]

I don't know about half, 12% is a lot for Western Iron Age Scythians, probably full, you could check by comparing to Scythian samples, there are tons.

+1 they could be Scythian samples.

[Voskos]

Which was? Hellenas who hung around Anatolia since the ( I can only assume ) the Hellenistic period? Or literal Anatolians?

they could be either, or mixed. I suspect they must have been predominantly native though.

[Rabbit Hole]

Shut the fuck up, nothing more nothing less.

I am talking about native Anatolians not peasants who took it up the chuff for a quick buck. You know Aryans, pre historic Meds who built civilizations.

[Kaspias]

MA2198 is modeling like 50% Anatolia_MLBA and 50% random Steppe populations, so I subtracted that 50% Anatolian. This is what remained:

Coordinates:

Anatolia_IA-Steppe,0.0748382,-0.0297038,0.023476,0.016473,-0.0402385,-0.0004195,0.0085188,0.0197882,-0.03032,-0.036447,-0.0168895,-0.005508,0.0373508,0.0021335,0.0111295,0.001027,0. 0013687,0.0145698,-0.0005028,0.003408,-0.0060523,-0.0022268,-0.0008635,-0.0028325,-0.002665


Distance to: Anatolia_IA-Steppe
0.07112778 Saka_Tian_Shan
0.07489509 MDA_Cimmerian
0.07553268 KAZ_Tasbas_IA
0.07632949 Hun_Tian_Shan
0.07860322 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
0.08114741 Anatolia_Ottoman
0.08131550 KAZ_Nomad_IA
0.08297648 KAZ_Turk
0.08298120 KAZ_Alpamsa_MLBA_Alakul
0.08470114 KAZ_Wusun
0.08945127 RUS_Nomad_MA
0.09518021 MNG_Center_West_LBA_5
0.09693067 Scythian_RUS_Urals
0.09752908 Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA
0.09767225 MNG_EIA_2
0.10253269 MNG_Pazyryk_EIA_6
0.10432843 Gepidian_SRB_ACD
0.10682397 RUS_Tagar
0.10714968 KAZ_Zevakinskiy_LBA
0.10720764 KAZ_Kangju
0.10742691 RUS_Karasuk
0.10848111 MNG_Mongun_Taiga_LBA_3
0.11217342 KAZ_Chanchar2_LBA
0.11369352 Saka_Kazakh_steppe_o2
0.11427273 KAZ_Kipchak


Distance to: Anatolia_IA-Steppe
0.06776868 Turkmen
0.07173736 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.07412836 Tatar_Lipka
0.09055707 Tajik
0.09502766 Tatar_Kazan
0.09969008 Uzbek
0.10214131 Besermyan
0.10235906 Bashkir
0.10829388 Udmurt
0.11231127 Tajik_Shugnan
0.11432106 Tajik_Rushan
0.11651868 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11862049 Tatar_Mishar
0.11981920 Chuvash
0.12375385 Turkish_South
0.12798147 Komi
0.12817202 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.12898944 Turkish_Balikesir
0.12963317 Tatar_Siberian
0.13134538 Turkish_Southwest
0.13138795 Kho_Singanali
0.13224456 Turkish_North
0.13304595 Turkish_Aydin
0.13322585 Turkish_Northwest
0.13838948 Hazara_Afghanistan

Interesting, isn't it?

[Raizen]

one is half cimmerian, the other is a half gaulish galatian. update yourself guys

[Rabbit Hole]

I am desperately trying to find some decent samples of Luwian markers in Anatolian samples also I have some from Iron Age Armenia from 1,500 and 1,000 years ago

[SharpFork]

MA2198 is modeling like 50% Anatolia_MLBA and 50% random Steppe populations, so I subtracted that 50% Anatolian. This is what remained:

Coordinates:

Anatolia_IA-Steppe,0.0748382,-0.0297038,0.023476,0.016473,-0.0402385,-0.0004195,0.0085188,0.0197882,-0.03032,-0.036447,-0.0168895,-0.005508,0.0373508,0.0021335,0.0111295,0.001027,0. 0013687,0.0145698,-0.0005028,0.003408,-0.0060523,-0.0022268,-0.0008635,-0.0028325,-0.002665


Distance to: Anatolia_IA-Steppe
0.07112778 Saka_Tian_Shan
0.07489509 MDA_Cimmerian
0.07553268 KAZ_Tasbas_IA
0.07632949 Hun_Tian_Shan
0.07860322 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
0.08114741 Anatolia_Ottoman
0.08131550 KAZ_Nomad_IA
0.08297648 KAZ_Turk
0.08298120 KAZ_Alpamsa_MLBA_Alakul
0.08470114 KAZ_Wusun
0.08945127 RUS_Nomad_MA
0.09518021 MNG_Center_West_LBA_5
0.09693067 Scythian_RUS_Urals
0.09752908 Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA
0.09767225 MNG_EIA_2
0.10253269 MNG_Pazyryk_EIA_6
0.10432843 Gepidian_SRB_ACD
0.10682397 RUS_Tagar
0.10714968 KAZ_Zevakinskiy_LBA
0.10720764 KAZ_Kangju
0.10742691 RUS_Karasuk
0.10848111 MNG_Mongun_Taiga_LBA_3
0.11217342 KAZ_Chanchar2_LBA
0.11369352 Saka_Kazakh_steppe_o2
0.11427273 KAZ_Kipchak


Distance to: Anatolia_IA-Steppe
0.06776868 Turkmen
0.07173736 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.07412836 Tatar_Lipka
0.09055707 Tajik
0.09502766 Tatar_Kazan
0.09969008 Uzbek
0.10214131 Besermyan
0.10235906 Bashkir
0.10829388 Udmurt
0.11231127 Tajik_Shugnan
0.11432106 Tajik_Rushan
0.11651868 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11862049 Tatar_Mishar
0.11981920 Chuvash
0.12375385 Turkish_South
0.12798147 Komi
0.12817202 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.12898944 Turkish_Balikesir
0.12963317 Tatar_Siberian
0.13134538 Turkish_Southwest
0.13138795 Kho_Singanali
0.13224456 Turkish_North
0.13304595 Turkish_Aydin
0.13322585 Turkish_Northwest
0.13838948 Hazara_Afghanistan

Interesting, isn't it?

How do you subtract stuff? In any case it's weird, MDA_Cimmerian is a strange outlier, I forgot they were 22% East Eurasian.

[Kaspias]

The second one is just deformed Thracian btw:

Distance to: Anatolia_IA_low_res
0.05797293 HRV_MBA
0.05840354 BGR_EBA
0.05858445 BGR_IA
0.05863636 HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
0.05974114 HUN_BA
0.06084189 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
0.06228038 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
0.06467082 ITA_Rome_MA
0.06502975 HRV_IA
0.06551177 ITA_Proto-Villanovan
0.06625831 ITA_Sardinia_MA
0.06653463 HRV_EBA
0.06711255 ITA_Sardinia_IA
0.06724666 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
0.06761816 ITA_Etruscan
0.06922602 IND_Roopkund_B
0.06925977 DEU_MA_o
0.06938293 ITA_Sicily_EBA
0.06967699 Scythian_MDA
0.07044882 GRC_Mycenaean
0.07116687 Bell_Beaker_ITA
0.07123045 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
0.07241146 Bell_Beaker_HUN
0.07245269 ITA_Villanovan
0.07263585 BGR_Beli_Breyag_EBA

[Hapanuwa]

I'm quite close to the MA2198 and I was told that it was probably a sample from a Turk in the late Ottoman period (Industrial Age). It has 12-13% East Eurasian, similar to my 13% East Eurasian.

Distance to: Hapanuwa_scaled
0.04161333 Anatolia_IA:MA2198
0.12311406 Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197

Distance to: Hapanuwa
0.02231143 Anatolia_IA:MA2198
0.05148427 Anatolia_IA_low_res:MA2197

[Rabbit Hole]

https://indo-european.eu/2020/03/proto-anatolians-from-the-southern-caucasus-or-the-balkans/?fbclid=IwAR0ANr0TUJMGxG5PNXwimjQHYJ6nrNCE0-3hbG2G_gfxZpCytg810oP-cQI

[Voskos]

MA2198:

Distance to: Anatolia_IA
0.01440952 Turkish_Northwest
0.01453679 Turkish_Adana
0.01469668 Turkish_Balikesir
0.01490861 Turkish_Aydin
0.01543027 Turkish_Kayseri
0.01574624 Turkish_Central
0.01577516 Turkish_Istanbul
0.01591536 Turkish_South
0.01606494 Turkish_Southwest
0.01666582 Turkish_North
0.02002740 Azeri
0.02175610 Turkish_Balkans
0.02213055 Turkmen
0.02313978 Syrian
0.02319423 Azeri_Turkey
0.02330762 Armenian
0.02348832 Ezid
0.02363957 Greek_Crete
0.02378365 Georgian_Jew
0.02387137 Assyrian
0.02431608 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.02445040 Lebanese_Muslim
0.02480850 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02481661 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02486425 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.02499763 Azeri_Dagestan
0.02507449 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.02525703 Greek_Kos
0.02552897 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02562066 Lebanese_Druze
0.02586628 Druze
0.02588106 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02604995 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
0.02608025 Greek_Izmir
0.02612132 ARM_Areni_C
0.02631507 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02632742 Cypriot
0.02650526 Kurdish
0.02669581 Iranian_Jew
0.02726807 Syrian_Jew
0.02769420 Iranian_Lor
0.02771056 Anatolia_Ottoman
0.02785599 Iranian_Fars
0.02786561 Gagauz
0.02803594 Moldovan
0.02832190 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
0.02841311 Karaite_Egypt
0.02851534 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02874040 Italian_Campania
0.02874195 Italian_Basilicata

[JQP4545]

Does anyone know from where in Anatolia these are from?