R1a-z93 in Kyrgyz people. Explanation?

[Kyp]

Does anybody have an explanation for it?

https://i.imgur.com/TloH2mU.png

[Leto]

Must be the founder effect. The Chinese described the medieval Kirghiz as white, I think they would have gotten Mongolicized with time.

[Alenka]

That's where R1a is originally from.
:icon_yes:

[Demhat]

Does anybody have an explanation for it?

https://i.imgur.com/TloH2mU.png

Extremely high frequency of a single Haplogroup, especially if the majority is also downstream to the same clade, usually points to either founder (Elite) or bottle-neck effect.

[Arhat]

Does anybody have an explanation for it?

https://i.imgur.com/TloH2mU.png

This map and the study from which it is from is pure crap. Z2125 peaks among Pashtuns in Central and South Afghanistan. Also there is quite much of it among Tatars, Caucasians and other non-Slavic Russians. It looks like they randomly draw some lines on the map.

[yamagi]

Founder effect

[xripkan]

Does anybody have an explanation for it?

https://i.imgur.com/TloH2mU.png

Probably Iranic. From Scythians/Saka tribes of Central Asia.

[Tanais]

Probably Iranic. From Scythians/Saka tribes of Central Asia.

This map and the study from which it is from is pure crap. Z2125 peaks among Pashtuns in Central and South Afghanistan. Also there is quite much of it among Tatars, Caucasians and other non-Slavic Russians. It looks like they randomly draw some lines on the map.

Cry me a river you irano-centrist nationalists! Cry, cry as much as you can for your Turkic Steppe_MLBA daddy! :coffee:
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-r1a-z93-basal.png

Nice greetings from Nepalese Mongoloids :bored:
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-r1a-m417.png

Oh, this was so good.

[Dr_Maul]

Tocharians

[Tanais]

Tocharians
No, 666. Lol.

[aklifal]

no relation to indo-gypsies.

[Dr_Maul]

No, 666. Lol.

Why not? Their primary maternal haplogroups are East Asian (like D) so it makes sense that they would be East Asian/mongolic maternally and Tocharian paternally. Outside of their main haplogroups they also have a bunch of mtdna groups at 2-3% indicating that maternally they are primarily East Asian but also with extreme diversity maternally however paternally not diverse (Founder effect) And we know Tocharians who were Indo European therefore R1 also lived there, so combine that with the founder effect and it’s possible

[Tanais]

Why not? Their primary maternal haplogroups are East Asian (like D) so it makes sense that they would be East Asian/mongolic maternally and Tocharian paternally. Outside of their main haplogroups they also have a bunch of mtdna groups at 2-3% indicating that maternally they are primarily East Asian but also with extreme diversity maternally however paternally not diverse (Founder effect) And we know Tocharians who were Indo European therefore R1 also lived there, so combine that with the founder effect and it’s possible
Not possible because R is mongoloid.

[Dr_Maul]

Not possible because R is mongoloid.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/Vg0JstydL8HCg" width="480" height="240" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/Vg0JstydL8HCg">via GIPHY</a></p>

[Sarmatian]

Not possible because R is mongoloid.

No more shrooms for that one, he had enough :laugh:

[Arhat]

Cry me a river you irano-centrist nationalists! Cry, cry as much as you can for your Turkic Steppe_MLBA daddy! :coffee:
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-r1a-z93-basal.png

Nice greetings from Nepalese Mongoloids :bored:
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-r1a-m417.png

Oh, this was so good.

Anyone thiking R1a is from Turks or Mongolids needs to go to a doctor. R1a was found in Mesolithic Ukraine and Russia with zero East Asian admix. And Z93 in Sintashta with zero asian admix and was a copy of Corded Ware

[Tanais]

Anyone thiking R1a is from Turks or Mongolids needs to go to a doctor. R1a was found in Mesolithic Ukraine and Russia with zero East Asian admix. And Z93 in Sintashta with zero asian admix and was a copy of Corded Ware
R being Mongoloid was actually a provocative joke. They were just Turks. Are you fine with that? But you have to admit Nepal is a great Mongol country though.

[Tanais]

###

[gixajo]

Does anybody have an explanation for it?

https://i.imgur.com/TloH2mU.png

Sorry, your paternal line is from Azerbaidjan or from Germany?

[SG_Jun]

Why not? Their primary maternal haplogroups are East Asian (like D) so it makes sense that they would be East Asian/mongolic maternally and Tocharian paternally. Outside of their main haplogroups they also have a bunch of mtdna groups at 2-3% indicating that maternally they are primarily East Asian but also with extreme diversity maternally however paternally not diverse (Founder effect) And we know Tocharians who were Indo European therefore R1 also lived there, so combine that with the founder effect and it’s possible

If I'm not mistaken, Tocharians are actually R1b, not R1a. I think there is a greater possibility of them being Iranian/Scythian rather than Tocharian.

[Kyp]

Sorry, your paternal line is from Azerbaidjan or from Germany?

Azerbaijan

[gixajo]

Azerbaijan

I am also Z2125 suposedly, but my paternal side is form Andalucía, Spain, I cannot guess how r1a- Z2125 ended there. Before this subclade I was M417.

My Z2125 comes from this man, could you see in he some Azerbaidjan vibe?

https://i.imgur.com/bTB7GCB.jpg

[Kyp]

I am also Z2125 suposedly, but my paternal side is form Andalucía, Spain, I cannot guess how r1a- Z2125 ended there. Before this subclade I was M417.

My Z2125 comes from this man, could you see in he some Azerbaidjan vibe?



To be honest yes. But he could also be just Spanish.

Is there anything atypical in your autosomal results showing?

Also R1a is not the most common among Azeris too. (I think it's ranked as 4th most common for Azeris)

[gixajo]

To be honest yes. But he could also be just Spanish.

Is there anything atypical in your autosomal results showing?

Also R1a is not the most common among Azeris too. (I think it's ranked as 4th most common for Azeris)

Nope, I don´t see anything too strange being Spanish in my autosomal results.Probably this haplo was in the Iberian peninsula from ancient times, and the genetic heritage in autosomal Dna is very diluted since centuries.

Anyway, I maintain r1a-M417 because it´s sure that I am this Haplotype.I can post you the prediction of Z2125 if you want.

[Kyp]

Nope, I don´t see anything too strange being Spanish in my autosomal results.Probably this haplo was in the Iberian peninsula from ancient times, and the genetic heritage in autosomal Dna is very diluted since centuries.

Anyway, I maintain r1a-M417 because it´s sure that I am this Haplotype.I can post you the prediction of Z2125 if you want.


Have you tried this tool too?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?320851-New-YSEQ-tool-for-y-dna-haplogroup-prediction/page4

Sure PM me or post here

[Austrvegr]

A stranded group of Scythians got Turkicized.

[gixajo]

To be honest yes. But he could also be just Spanish.

Is there anything atypical in your autosomal results showing?

Also R1a is not the most common among Azeris too. (I think it's ranked as 4th most common for Azeris)

This was my last prediction, made with raw data from Myheritage in this predictor https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ :


Most specific position on the YFull YTree is R-Z2125 Link to R-Z2125 on YFull View theoretical migration on PhyloGeographer

R-Z2125 Z2125+
┣━R-S23592 +1 S23592($) YP349($)
┣━R-YP413 +1 YP413/M12301($)
┗━R-Z2123 +5 Z2123($)

Available Panels
R1a-Z93 Panel Predicted R-Z2125 is downstream of the panel root. This panel may be applicable if it tests subclades below R-Z2125. Please verify and check with YSEQ customer support.


Next best prediction (scored 354 compared to 355) R-Z645

And the first prediction was this one, in Morley´s predictor:

https://i.imgur.com/QFk4lfp.png
https://i.imgur.com/uoBt4tn.png

[Kyp]

This was my last prediction, made with raw data from Myheritage in this predictor https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ :



And the first prediction was this one, in Morley´s predictor:


Looks similar to my results I also get only basic R1a with Morley and R1a-z2125 with cladefinder. My next best prediction is R-Z645 too.

https://i.imgur.com/gCX3dF9.jpg

[Arhat]

Nope, I don´t see anything too strange being Spanish in my autosomal results.Probably this haplo was in the Iberian peninsula from ancient times, and the genetic heritage in autosomal Dna is very diluted since centuries.

Anyway, I maintain r1a-M417 because it´s sure that I am this Haplotype.I can post you the prediction of Z2125 if you want.

Z93 exists in Spain and mostly comes from Alans/Sarmatians but some also from Jews or Arabs (they are low in it but still carry it). Where you got the prediction results?

[gixajo]

Looks similar to my results I also get only basic R1a with Morley and R1a-z2125 with cladefinder. My next best prediction is R-Z645 too.

]

I will have my father autosomal test results in some weeks, maybe in his results I will can see more about his ancestry, but I am sure that his haplogroup is quite ancient and he will be a quite normal Andalusian form North West Andalucía.

I will make also a 23andme test , but probably they will not give me any more accurate subclade.

[gixajo]

Z93 exists in Spain and mostly comes from Alans/Sarmatians but some also from Jews or Arabs (they are low in it but still carry it). Where you got the prediction results?

Morley and Yseq, from MyHeritage raw data newest chip.

In Spain any r1a is quite strange, about 1.2% in all Spain, and 6.5% in Cantabria region, specifically in a valley called Pas (pasiegos) who have aroun 35% r1a, that is an isolated group of people who have very strange haplogroups comparing with the rest of Iberian peninsula. But I have not any (known) familiar link with that valley.

[Arhat]

Morley and Yseq, from MyHeritage raw data newest chip.

In Spain any r1a is quite strange, about 1.2% in all Spain, and 6.5% in Cantabria region, specifically in a valley called Pas (pasiegos) who have aroun 35% r1a, that is an isolated group of people who have very strange haplogroups comparing with the rest of Iberian peninsula. But I have not any (known) familiar link with that valley.

Theoretically your R1a could also come from Celts who were in Central Europe in contact with Scythians. R1a-Z2125 exists in low frequencies also in Britain, Germany and most of Europe but today it is most frequent among Pashtuns, Kyrgyz and Tatars. But ultimately your R1a-Z2125 is from Proto-Iranics/Sintashta

[Arhat]

Morley and Yseq, from MyHeritage raw data newest chip.

In Spain any r1a is quite strange, about 1.2% in all Spain, and 6.5% in Cantabria region, specifically in a valley called Pas (pasiegos) who have aroun 35% r1a, that is an isolated group of people who have very strange haplogroups comparing with the rest of Iberian peninsula. But I have not any (known) familiar link with that valley.

Theoretically your R1a could also come from Celts who were in Central Europe in contact with Scythians. R1a-Z2125 exists in low frequencies also in Britain, Germany and most of Europe but today it is most frequent among Pashtuns, Kyrgyz and Tatars. But ultimately your R1a-Z2125 is from Proto-Iranics/Sintashta

[xripkan]

This was my last prediction, made with raw data from Myheritage in this predictor https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ :



And the first prediction was this one, in Morley´s predictor:

https://i.imgur.com/QFk4lfp.png
https://i.imgur.com/uoBt4tn.png

Your clade is Scythian /Sarmatian/Alan. Visigoths absorbed many Sarmatians from Northern Balkans before they move to Spain. Alans also settled to Spain.
My final clade (R-YP4768<R-Z2122) is Alan-Sarmatian and it exists in various areas of Europe. Cantabria of Spain is one of them.

[Tanais]

I am also Z2125 suposedly, but my paternal side is form Andalucía, Spain, I cannot guess how r1a- Z2125 ended there. Before this subclade I was M417.

My Z2125 comes from this man, could you see in he some Azerbaidjan vibe?

https://i.imgur.com/bTB7GCB.jpg
He could also pass as typical Bashkir or Tatar.

[Tanais]

Z93 exists in Spain and mostly comes from Alans/Sarmatians but some also from Jews or Arabs (they are low in it but still carry it). Where you got the prediction results?
Just to get this straight. We are talking about a Turkic marker.

[Tanais]

Theoretically your R1a could also come from Celts who were in Central Europe in contact with Scythians. R1a-Z2125 exists in low frequencies also in Britain, Germany and most of Europe but today it is most frequent among Pashtuns, Kyrgyz and Tatars. But ultimately your R1a-Z2125 is from Proto-Iranics/Sintashta
Sintashta has no Iranian connection. It's a Volga-Turkic gene pool, also known as Steppe_MLBA. Stop claiming Turkic genes for your agenda.

[Leto]

Sintashta has no Iranian connection. It's a Volga-Turkic gene pool, also known as Steppe_MLBA. Stop claiming Turkic genes for your agenda.
Sintashta is said to have been the proto-Indo-Iranic culture. And they were pretty much European racially.

[Arhat]

Sintashta has no Iranian connection. It's a Volga-Turkic gene pool, also known as Steppe_MLBA. Stop claiming Turkic genes for your agenda.

Thanks for revealing the truth to us. I guess it is just coincidence that Sintashta lacked Turkic dna, was caucasoid, shared R1a with Corded Ware, clustered with North Europeans and had his material culture borrowed from Corded Ware. Or maybe this is a conspiracy by people who are jealous on Turks and their "great" contributions to civilization.

[Tanais]

Thanks for revealing the truth to us. I guess it is just coincidence that Sintashta lacked Turkic dna, was caucasoid, shared R1a with Corded Ware, clustered with North Europeans and had his material culture borrowed from Corded Ware. Or maybe this is a conspiracy by people who are jealous on Turks and their "great" contributions to civilization.
Carlos Quiles made an autosomal dna map. Get lost, looser. You can't claim other races dna anymore. Stay home in Jalalabad, where you belong to. Oh, wait. Dna maps are also conspiracy? See it? You lost your mind on this subject, because you are an indoctrinated looser. And indoctrinated people always suffer from delusion. Do you need any calm down pills now?

[Tanais]

Sintashta is said to have been the proto-Indo-Iranic culture. And they were pretty much European racially.
Iranians are not European by any mean. It's a Volga Turkic gene pool. Carlos Quiles knows it, he uses computer generated highly professional program beyond any consideration.

[Illyrius]

He could also pass as typical Bashkir or Tatar.

Ngl he could even pass in Albania

[Hashoeva]

haplogroup R is of mongol or turkic nomads origins. That also explains the some asiatic appearance you sometimes can see in North-West, Central and East Europeans.

the reason why some Europeans say that haplogroup R is of "indo-iranian" origins is because they want to believe that their paternal line is not of mongol or turkic origins so they feel themselves better. the closely related / brother haplogroup is haplogroup Q which is also mostly found among mongols, turkics, native-americans, and other asiatic peoples in siberia, altai region, etc.

[Turul Karom]

haplogroup R is of mongol or turkic nomads origins. That also explains the some asiatic appearance you sometimes can see in North-West, Central and East Europeans.

the reason why some Europeans say that haplogroup R is of "indo-iranian" origins is because they want to believe that so they feel themselves better that their paternal line is not of mongol or turkic origins. the closely related haplogroup of R also called the brother haplogroup which is haplogroup Q is also mostly found among mongols, turkics, native-americans, and other asiatic peoples in siberia, altai region, etc.


I am proud to be R, and I am proud of the Turkics who founded our tribes and cultures.

We are not all such Turkophobics; the reason for Turk-fear is the name association with Ottoman legacy (which average, every-day Anatolian Turks bled for just to be seen as having an Arabic cultural face, alphabet, and to have their steppe legacy mocked as "backward"), and the fact that the West has been predominantly Christian while most Turkics today are Muslim.

Turkish Osman and Hungarian Árpád dynasties (Turkic conquering leaders) were both R1a-Z93.

https://i.imgur.com/RrzyFh3.png

[Leto]

haplogroup R is of mongol or turkic nomads origins. That also explains the some asiatic appearance you sometimes can see in North-West, Central and East Europeans.

the reason why some Europeans say that haplogroup R is of "indo-iranian" origins is because they want to believe that their paternal line is not of mongol or turkic origins so they feel themselves better. the closely related / brother haplogroup is haplogroup Q which is also mostly found among mongols, turkics, native-americans, and other asiatic peoples in siberia, altai region, etc.
This is utter nonsense. Do you even realize that there are different branches of R1a (and R1b)? But even the Asian branches weren't originally Turkic, let alone Mongol (Mongols are less than 10% R1a for example).

[Leto]

I am proud to be R, and I am proud of the Turkics who founded our tribes and cultures.

We are not all such Turkophobics; the reason for Turk-fear is the name association with Ottoman legacy (which average, every-day Anatolian Turks bled for just to be seen as having an Arabic cultural face, alphabet, and to have their steppe legacy mocked as "backward"), and the fact that the West has been predominantly Christian while most Turkics today are Muslim.

Turkish Osman and Hungarian Árpád dynasties (Turkic conquering leaders) were both R1a-Z93.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/RrzyFh3.png
Maybe for you it is different but for us Russians/East Slavs there is nothing to be proud of in the Turco-Mongol influence (thank God it's minor or non-existent) because those savage motherfuckers (Turco-Mongols) came to our lands and destroyed and burned down everything. Obviously I don't want to be associated with those centuries of destruction and humiliation. That was a big-ass setback for our civilization and culture.
I don't mind Turkic peoples and languages but not in this case. It's one thing when you claim the conqueror heritage but in our case it's the opposite. The Mongols were demons, worse than Hitler.

[Hashoeva]

This is utter nonsense. Do you even realize that there are different branches of R1a (and R1b)? But even the Asian branches weren't originally Turkic, let alone Mongol (Mongols are less than 10% R1a for example).
Its not nonsense. so what if there are different branches? I am talking about the main brance. Haplogroup R and its brother haplogroup Q is of turkic, mongol or asiatic origins. it were asiatic haplogroup R males who came from the east and went to europe. thats how it went.

[Leto]

Its not nonsense. so what if there are different branches? I am talking about the main brance. Haplogroup R and its brother haplogroup Q is of turkic, mongol or asiatic origins. it were asiatic haplogroup R males who came from the east and went to europe. thats how it went.
Even if it did come from Eastern Eurasia a very, very long time ago, it does not mean it's "Turkic" or "Mongol". I think it must be a lot older than those ethnic categories.

[Turul Karom]

Maybe for you it is different but for us Russians/East Slavs there is nothing to be proud of in the Turco-Mongol influence (thank God it's minor or non-existent) because those savage motherfuckers (Turco-Mongols) came to our lands and destroyed and burned down everything. Obviously I don't want to be associated with those centuries of destruction and humiliation. That was a big-ass setback for our civilization and culture.
I don't mind Turkic peoples and languages but not in this case. It's one thing when you claim the conqueror heritage but in our case it's the opposite. The Mongols were demons, worse than Hitler.

Everyone fights everyone. Even inside meta-ethnicities. This is nothing new. The Mongols were terrible for Hungary as well and wrecked the nation; they were defeated in their second invasion by the half-Magyar, half-Cuman hero-king László IV. The first invasion only happened because we did not surrender the Cumans in Hungary and said we would not join the Mongolian Golden Horde to help push West. Originally the Mongols wished for a Hungarian alliance signed with the blood of Cumans.

Under Stalin, Turkics have been deported many times to Siberian deaths. The Nogais, the Crimean Tatars and the Giray clan (who were murdered by Ottomans after losing the last of their land) have never developed a means to fight the modern and larger industrialized Russians in the 18th and 19th centuries, and they were therefore pushed out by superior numbers, technology, and fire power.

I would say that the Russians and Slavics are doing quite well today; Russia borders so many Asiatic nations because of their aggressive expansions and refusal to assimilate early on the Turkics who previously raided them. I also don't think that Mongols are literally seen as worse than Hitler, who had a personal desire to genocide the Slavs.

I don't hate Russians, Germans, or Mongols though. I would say Hungary has been through more crossroads of betrayal and last-stands than Slavs.

[Turul Karom]

Its not nonsense. so what if there are different branches? I am talking about the main brance. Haplogroup R and its brother haplogroup Q is of turkic, mongol or asiatic origins. it were asiatic haplogroup R males who came from the east and went to europe. thats how it went.

The problem is that when people hear "Mongol" or "Turkic", several jump to the image of a very Sinic-looking Chinese man in their head as the representation. They ignore the Sinicization effects from the Mongol and other East Asian phenotype invasions westward and just use the populations there today as reference.

For example, this is an Altai felt picture of a Scythian from the border of Mongolia (very important because this is how they made themselves look, not a foreign source) and it is the oldest known image of the Hungarian mustache.

https://i.imgur.com/E5i4dNX.jpg

[Friedrich Ulrich]

60 percent of kyrgz people still carrying that genes,the rest mongolized robustly

[Leto]

Under Stalin, Turkics have been deported many times to Siberian deaths. The Nogais, the Crimean Tatars and the Giray clan (who were murdered by Ottomans after losing the last of their land) have never developed a means to fight the modern and larger industrialized Russians in the 18th and 19th centuries, and they were therefore pushed out by superior numbers, technology, and fire power.

I don't feel sorry for the C. Tatars, those fuckers raided and pillaged Russian lands for 3 centuries before Catherine the Great finally put an end to that. I believe over 2 million slaves were captured and sold to the Ottomans and elsewhere. Generally I don't feel sorry for any Muslims, I actually think Russian tsars and emperors were way too tolerant and lenient towards Muslims. If I were them, I would have mercilessly extinguished all the fucking Muzzrats just like the Spanish did in the Reconquista. We allowed them to be who they are and now it's increasingly backfiring. Let's not go deeper into that topic though.

[Friedrich Ulrich]

60 percent of kyrgyz people still carries that genes,the rest mongolized robustly.

[Leto]

60 percent of kyrgz people still carries that genes,the rest mongolized robustly.
There is J2 in Kyrgyzstan in a small but existing number.

[Turul Karom]

I don't feel sorry for the C. Tatars, those fuckers raided and pillaged Russian lands for 3 centuries before Catherine the Great finally put an end to that. I believe over 2 million slaves were captured and sold to the Ottomans and elsewhere. Generally I don't feel sorry for any Muslims, I actually think Russian tsars and emperors were way too tolerant and lenient towards Muslims. If I were them, I would have mercilessly extinguished all the fucking Muzzrats just like the Spanish did in the Reconquista. We allowed them to be who they are and now it's increasingly backfiring. Let's not go deeper into that topic though.

I'm not saying you need to feel sorry for anyone. I wrote more than that about other things, but I guess that will just be the focus of this point. Basically you just have a particular hatred for Turkic raiders like Hitler did for Slavs at-large. However, you have pivoted to talking about Muslims. This is a far larger group than just some Central Asian Turkics, so are you advocating for an Orthodox Crusade into Jerusalem and down to Mecca to get the Arabs and Israelites?

[Leto]

The problem is that when people hear "Mongol" or "Turkic", several jump to the image of a very Sinic-looking Chinese man in their head as the representation. They ignore the Sinicization effects from the Mongol and other East Asian phenotype invasions westward and just use the populations there today as reference.

For example, this is an Altai felt picture of a Scythian from the border of Mongolia (very important because this is how they made themselves look, not a foreign source) and it is the oldest known image of the Hungarian mustache.

https://i.imgur.com/E5i4dNX.jpg
That guy is supposed to have been Scythian, I believe. Pazyryk culture.

[Leto]

I'm not saying you need to feel sorry for anyone. I wrote more than that about other things, but I guess that will just be the focus of this point. Basically you just have a particular hatred for Turkic raiders like Hitler did for Slavs at-large. However, you have pivoted to talking about Muslims. This is a far larger group than just some Central Asian Turkics, so are you advocating for an Orthodox Crusade into Jerusalem and down to Mecca to get the Arabs and Israelites?
Nope. It would be enough to deport them from white and Christian countries. :cool: Obviously we cannot change every country in the world imposing our will upon them.

[Turul Karom]

That guy is supposed to have been Scythian, I believe. Pazyryk culture.

That's what I said about the ethnicity.


Nope. It would be enough to deport them from white and Christian countries. :cool: Obviously we cannot change every country in the world imposing our will upon them.

As opposed to sending them to white Muslim countries? Or do you think being a Muslim means not being white, and therefore white is a behavior rather than a biology classification? What about all of the non-Turkic Muslim Crimean peoples?

[Leto]

As opposed to sending them to white Muslim countries? Or do you think being a Muslim means not being white, and therefore white is a behavior rather than a biology classification? What about all of the non-Turkic Muslim Crimean peoples?
I don't want to continue this conversation. And yes, most Muslims aren't white, like 98% or so.

[Turul Karom]

I don't want to continue this conversation. And yes, most Muslims aren't white, like 98% or so.

Ok, that's fine. However, I disagree that somehow religion=race. I'm sure you wouldn't think an Orthodox Somalian who believes 100% the same things you do would be considered white or European, so a Bulgarian, Gaugaz, etc Muslim not being "white" for being Muslim is just as odd to me.

[Leto]

Ok, that's fine. However, I disagree that somehow religion=race. I'm sure you wouldn't think an Orthodox Somalian who believes 100% the same things you do would be considered white or European, so a Bulgarian, Gaugaz, etc Muslim not being "white" for being Muslim is just as odd to me.
European Muslims are a very small percentage of all Muslims in the world. There is like 2 million Bosniaks and 5 million Albanians but not all of them are religious, not all would even identify as Muslim. There are also some thousands of European converts in Western Europe and North America but compared to the Middle East, parts of South Asia and Africa those numbers are just tiny. Religion isn't a race obviosuly but the vast majority of Muslims in and outside of Europe are definitely not of European descent.

[Turul Karom]

European Muslims are a very small percentage of all Muslims in the world. There is like 2 million Bosniaks and 5 million Albanians but not all of them are religious, not all would even identify as Muslim. There are also some thousands of European converts in Western Europe and North America but compared to the Middle East, parts of South Asia and Africa those numbers are just tiny. Religion isn't a race obviosuly but the vast majority of Muslims in and outside of Europe are definitely not of European descent.

Are all Europeans white to you then? I know you make a lot of posts here about various topics, but I honestly don't know or understand your perspectives because I think there are overlapping terms.

[Leto]

Are all Europeans white to you then? I know you make a lot of posts here about various topics, but I honestly don't know or understand your perspectives because I think there are overlapping terms.
Generally speaking, yes, white equals European. There are a few nuances though.
Please don't quote me in this thread anymore, I don't want to continue.

[Turul Karom]

Generally speaking, yes, white equals European. There are a few nuances though.
Please don't quote me in this thread anymore, I don't want to continue.

I've already disengaged earlier. This will be all, then.

[Mingle]

I am proud to be R, and I am proud of the Turkics who founded our tribes and cultures.

What subclade of R are you?

[Chelubey]

We will see.
There really is a chance that the early Turkic people come from one of the sub-subclades of hg R.

[Turul Karom]

What subclade of R are you?

For some reason I thought that you asked this before.

I'm R1b-U106. One Hun and three Hungarian conqueror graves matches my Y-DNA results. I specifically match the Karos III Hungarian grave; we share DNA.

I also have matches in Uzbekistan.

https://i.imgur.com/ORvJXCt.png

[Illyrius]

We will see.
There really is a chance that the early Turkic people come from one of the sub-subclades of hg R.

Yes. R1b M73
And the bashkort R1b clade

[Tanais]

But even the Asian branches weren't originally Turkic.
Sorry, but your propaganda doesn't work anymore, Steppe_MLBA is a Turkic R1a marker. Get lost.

[Tanais]

Maybe for you it is different but for us Russians/East Slavs there is nothing to be proud of in the Turco-Mongol influence (thank God it's minor or non-existent) because those savage motherfuckers (Turco-Mongols) came to our lands and destroyed and burned down everything.
Last time I checked, Slavs have 50% ANE-related MONGOL FU**ING DNA. Be proud of this.

[Tanais]

Generally speaking, yes, white equals European. There are a few nuances though.
Please don't quote me in this thread anymore, I don't want to continue.
https://i.imgur.com/AsMls5T.jpg

[Hajimurad]

We will see.
There really is a chance that the early Turkic people come from one of the sub-subclades of hg R.

What's about N1b-P43 haplogroup among tribal Turks and Azerbaijani nobility? How about Q-M25 among early Xiongnu (Huns) and Turkmens?

[Illyrius]

What's about N1b-P43 haplogroup among tribal Turks and Azerbaijani nobility? How about Q-M25 among early Xiongnu (Huns) and Turkmens?

Like I said in another thread. Why are some obsessed with Haplogroup R. For Turks to deny Haplogroup Q and N so much..I don't get it. Why do they do it. They act as if the majority of Turkic people's belong to haplogroup R where in fact only a fraction of them belong to that particular haplo

[aklifal]

What's about N1b-P43 haplogroup among tribal Turks and Azerbaijani nobility? How about Q-M25 among early Xiongnu (Huns) and Turkmens?

i have yet to understand why people think Q-M25 is a "turkic" haplogroup.

[Chelubey]

What's about N1b-P43 haplogroup among tribal Turks and Azerbaijani nobility? How about Q-M25 among early Xiongnu (Huns) and Turkmens?
Do you mean this subclade?https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%D 0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0_N1a2b_(Y-%D0%94%D0%9D%D0%9A).
Yes, Turkmens have a lot of Q-M25. But other Oguz tribes do not have many. Turkmen neighbors - Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, have 3-5% of the total. At the same time, I am not sure that the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz have the same Turkmen subclade. The correlation between this subclade and Turkic people is too weak, especially if we assume recent expansion of turkic peoples. Usually, for Turks, haplogroup Q goes as minor together with subclades of haplogroup R. This situation has been observed since at least the Iron Age in Europe and cenral Asia. Paleogenetics has not yet found big Q-rich populations in the early Middle Ages in the Central Asian region or Europe, wich we can relate with turkic expantions

[Chelubey]

They act as if the majority of Turkic people's belong to haplogroup R where in fact only a fraction of them belong to that particular haplo

This is more about reconstructing the early history of Turkic populations than a haplogroup fetish.

[Illyrius]

This is more about reconstructing the early history of Turkic populations than a haplogroup fetish.

True enough.
They want to claim Indo Europeans as their own that's why.

[Bender1999]

True enough.
They want to claim Indo Europeans as their own that's why.

Who claims that?

[Illyrius]

Who claims that?

Some Pan Turanian freaks claim that the Indo Europeans descended from them.

[Bender1999]

Some Pan Turanian freaks claim that the Indo Europeans descended from them.

Never heard something like this...

[Ford]

Its not nonsense. so what if there are different branches? I am talking about the main brance. Haplogroup R and its brother haplogroup Q is of turkic, mongol or asiatic origins. it were asiatic haplogroup R males who came from the east and went to europe. thats how it went.

Basal R and Q are too old to be directly associated with any linguistic group.

[Chelubey]

Some Pan Turanian freaks claim that the Indo Europeans descended from them.
Well, the Turkic peoples have subclades of Hg R from the Yamnaya, Srubnaya, Andronovo and Afanasyevo cultures.
It is unlikely that they were all proto-Turkic/para-Turkic, but Srubnaya or Andronovo culture could be proto-Turkic.

[Illyrius]

Basal R and Q are too old to be directly associated with any linguistic group.

Sir this is one of the most helpful and meaningful comments ever posted on this site.

[Illyrius]

Well, the Turkic peoples have subclades of Hg R from the Yamnaya, Srubnaya, Andronovo and Afanasyevo cultures.
It is unlikely that they were all proto-Turkic/para-Turkic, but Srubnaya or Andronovo culture could be proto-Turkic.

Wait but isn't the pazyryk culture considered proto Turkic? I mean the word pazyryk it'se it's pretty Turkic sounding to me

[Hashoeva]

Basal R and Q are too old to be directly associated with any linguistic group.
so what if they are old. you can associate haplogroups with linguistic groups and ethnicities / races for sure. the only reason you say that because you are it seems a serb maybe with haplogroup R who dont want haplogroup R to be associated with turks and mongols haha. relax. dont feel ashamed. your paternal ancestors were original asiatics from siberia and mongolia.

[Illyrius]

so what if they are old. you can associate haplogroups with linguistic groups and ethnicities / races for sure. the only reason you say that because you are it seems a serb maybe with haplogroup R who dont want haplogroup R to be associated with turks and mongols haha. relax. dont feel ashamed. your paternal ancestors were original asiatics from siberia and mongolia.

What leads you to believe thism
For you to believe this nonsense crap is to deny your very own existence of your people.
Why do y'all got this huge Haplogroup R fetish.
Why are so many of you Haplogroup R wannabes. I bet you dream every night of being a Haplogroup R bearer
You're sick and show no respect for your ancestors and their respective Haplogroups. Haplogroup C, N, O, Q
Why are they so easily forgotten and cast into the darkness.

Like I said. You dream every day of Haplogroup R being mongoloid because you are so freaking jealous of it.
Learn to love yourself and your backgrounds more.

It's just a freaking Haplogroup dude for fucks sake.

[Ford]

so what if they are old. you can associate haplogroups with linguistic groups and ethnicities / races for sure. the only reason you say that because you are it seems a serb maybe with haplogroup R who dont want haplogroup R to be associated with turks and mongols haha. relax. dont feel ashamed. your paternal ancestors were original asiatics from siberia and mongolia.

You must be trolling. R and Q are older than IE and Turkic peoples by several thousand years.

[Zoro]

First I would like to say I don't have any axes to grind against either Turkics or Iranics since I have ancestry from both just like modern Turks or Azeri so I'll tell it as the evidence supports.

Once upon a time and for a long time Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians and their R1a dominated Central Asia and the Eurasian steppe. So basically 3000 year old Andronovo and their 2500 year old Scythian and Sarmatian relatives and their R1a were Indo-Iranian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture Fortunately Iranic languages are quite different from Turkic languages so it's easy to see that Scythians spoke Iranic language.

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai. In fact , Mongolians and Turks share a proto Mongolic/Turkic language.

The first Turkic Khagnate didn't show up in Central Asia until about 1500 years ago (Gokturks) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples


Turkic tribes such as the Khazars and Pechenegs probably lived as nomads for many years before establishing the First Turkic Khaganate, or Göktürk Empire, in the 6th century. These were herdsmen and nobles who were searching for new pastures and wealth. The first mention of Turks was in a Chinese text that mentioned trade between Turk tribes and the Sogdians along the Silk Road.[117] The first recorded use of "Turk" as a political name appears as a 6th-century reference to the word pronounced in Modern Chinese as Tujue. The Ashina clan migrated from Li-jien (modern Zhelai Zhai) to the Juan Juan seeking inclusion in their confederacy and protection from the prevalent dynasty. The tribe were famed metalsmiths and were granted land near a mountain quarry which looked like a helmet,
from which they were said to have gotten their name 突厥 (tūjué). A century later their power had increased such that they conquered the Juan Juan and established the Turkic Khaganate.

[Daos777]

so what if they are old. you can associate haplogroups with linguistic groups and ethnicities / races for sure. the only reason you say that because you are it seems a serb maybe with haplogroup R who dont want haplogroup R to be associated with turks and mongols haha. relax. dont feel ashamed. your paternal ancestors were original asiatics from siberia and mongolia.

You’re saying retarded shit in every thread.

Haplogroup R is from Eastern Hunter Gatherers and in Europe Villabruna Cro-Mag was found to carry r1b 14,000 years ago he was found in Trento, Italy.
Has nothing to do with Turkics or Mongoloids outside of much later subclades being assimilated by these people. Just like Jews are 40 percent R1b, but they are Turkic too I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chelubey]

I mean the word pazyryk it'se it's pretty Turkic sounding to me

Well, Syntashta also sounds Turkic and means a "gravestone". Turkic place names extend from Ukraine to Siberia. Part of the Turkic people has Pazyryk genetics, no doubt, but just the part .

[Illyrius]

Well, Syntashta also sounds Turkic and means a "gravestone". Turkic place names extend from Ukraine to Siberia. Part of the Turkic people has Pazyryk genetics, no doubt, but just the part .

Actually sintashta sounds very Indian to me.

Yeah I agree about that part, there's many Turkic toponyms in the eastern world.
But so are Slavic names in my country but no one's Slavic here

[Bender1999]

First I would like to say I don't have any axes to grind against either Turkics or Iranics since I have ancestry from both just like modern Turks or Azeri so I'll tell it as the evidence supports.

Once upon a time and for a long time Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians and their R1a dominated Central Asia and the Eurasian steppe. So basically 3000 year old Andronovo and their 2500 year old Scythian and Sarmatian relatives and their R1a were Indo-Iranian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture Fortunately Iranic languages are quite different from Turkic languages so it's easy to see that Scythians spoke Iranic language.

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai. In fact , Mongolians and Turks share a proto Mongolic/Turkic language.

The first Turkic Khagnate didn't show up in Central Asia until about 1500 years ago (Gokturks) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples


First Turkics where probably between 20-50% east eurasian, Turks and Azerbaijanis are between 5-20% east eurasian. Probably they were something like Uzbekhs/Turkmens/Nogays/Hazara just more North european shifted. Dont spread nonsense about other people, first deal with your own...

[Zoro]

The Ashina clan migrated from Li-jien (modern Zhelai Zhai) to the Juan Juan seeking inclusion in their confederacy and protection from the prevalent dynasty. The tribe were famed metalsmiths and were granted land near a mountain quarry which looked like a helmet,

It just occurred to me that Ashina sounds similar to pashto Ospina which is iron and in kurdish it’s Asin. Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto . So it looks like some iranics borrowed turkic words and probably visa versa whereas some iranics totally language shifted to turkic

[Bender1999]

It just occurred to me that Ashina sounds similar to pashto Ospina which is iron and in kurdish it’s Asin. Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto . So it looks like some iranics borrowed turkic words and probably visa versa whereas some iranics totally language shifted to turkic

Turkics and Iranics have a deep relationship and history with each other but you are just posting nonsense...

[Zoro]

Actually sintashta sounds very Indian to me.

Yeah I agree about that part, there's many Turkic toponyms in the eastern world.
But so are Slavic names in my country but no one's Slavic here

Sanskrit is Indo-Aryan language so it’s connected to Indo-European languages. Yamna is name of river in India Jamna

[Zoro]

Turkics and Iranics have a deep relationship and history with each other but you are just posting nonsense...

?? Can you point out specifically what part of my post is nonsense:

1- Iron is ospina in pashto and asin in kurdish
2- ana is grandmom in pashto and turkic
3- turkic loanwords in iranic and visa versa

If you can’t tell me then your post is nonsense

If

[Bender1999]

?? Can you point out specifically what part of my post is nonsense:

1- Iron is ospina in pashto and asin in kurdish
2- ana is grandmom in pashto and turkic
3- turkic loanwords in iranic and visa versa

If you can’t tell me then your post is nonsense

If

You imply connections which don’t exist. So generally many of your postings are really political influenced, as you a kurd i can understand why you like to deny and underestimate turkics and their history, culture etc. Yes turks and other turkics have iranic influence, but your hints regarding turks like ashina as term is of iranic origin(and i admit there are theories about that) but to connect this word with pashto(and then with kurdish, btw i don’t understand why kurds like to be associated with them, they are related to other iranics the same way)

[Zoro]

You imply connections which don’t exist. So generally many of your postings are really political influenced, as a kurd i can understand why you like to deny and underestimate turkics and their history, culture etc. Yes turks and other turkics have iranic influence, but your hints regarding turks like ashina as term is of iranic origin(and i admit there are theories about that) but to connect this word with pashto(and then with kurdish, btw i don’t understand why kurds like to be associated with them, they are related to other iranics the same way)

Actually i was suggesting the opposite that pashto ospina and kurdish asin may have come from turkic Ashina. It’s only a thought.

Actually I don’t underestimate Turkics. Didn’t i write I don’t have any axes to grind against either turkic or iranic since I clearly have ancestry from both. My y-dna is probably turkic as well as some or most of my EE/Siberian and yes i also know about seljuks and ottoman

[Chelubey]

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect[/B] that survived their Turkification.

Let's clarify something.
Even the Turkic subclades R1a(we do not touch subclades R1b) are very far from the Indo-Iranian subclades (including the Kyrgyz subclades). The common ancestor of the Turkic and Indo-Iranian branches lived about 5000 years ago. If the Kyrgyz subclades were Turkicized 1,500 years ago during the First Turkic Kaganate, they would be very close to the Tajik and Pashtun subclades, but they are very far. The founder's effect, as far as I remember, among the Pashtun z2124 is even greater than among the Kyrgyz : the age of the Kyrgyz branch z2125 is 2100 years , the age of the Pashtun branch z2124 is 1500-1800 years.

Now about Iranian language.
We have one Greek witness of the 3rd century BC, who says that from Persia to Sogd people speak dialects having minimal differences. There is evidence of the 2nd century BC from Chinese source who said that from Persia to Sogd people speak the same language. That is, in the 3rd century BC between the East Iranian and West Iranian languages ​​there were almost no differences. Sogdian is considered a dialect of the Scythian language. However, ancient witnesses restrict the areal of spreading of Iranian languages ​​by Sogd in the north.
Alas, the very early date of divergence of Iranian languages ​​is not confirmed by written sources, and Sogd is the northernmost region of the spreading of Iranian languages in ​​the 3rd century BC according to ancient sources.

[Zoro]

Let's clarify something.
Even the Turkic subclades R1a(we do not touch subclades R1b) are very far from the Indo-Iranian subclades (including the Kyrgyz subclades). The common ancestor of the Turkic and Indo-Iranian branches lived about 5000 years ago. If the Kyrgyz subclades were Turkized 1,500 years ago during the First Turkic Kaganate, they would be very close to the Tajik and Pashtun subclades, but they are very far. The founder's effect, as far as I remember, among the Pashtun z2124 is even greater than among the Kyrgyz : the age of the Kyrgyz branch z2125 is 2100 years , the age of the Pashtun branch z2124 is 1500-1800 years.

Now about Iranian language.
We have one Greek witness of the 3rd century BC, who says that from Persia to Sogd people speak adverbs having minimal differences. There is evidence of the 2nd century BC from Chinese source who said that from Persia to Sogd people speak the same language. That is, in the 3rd century BC between the East Iranian and West Iranian languages ​​there were almost no differences. Sogdian is considered a dialect of the Scythian language. However, ancient witnesses restrict the areal of spreading of Iranian languages ​​by Sogd.
Alas, the very early date of divergence of Iranian languages ​​is not confirmed by written sources, and Sogd is the northernmost region of the spreading of Iranian languages in ​​the 3rd century BC according to ancient sources.

You have some useful points which I don’t disagree with. The rest I need to think about

[Leto]

First I would like to say I don't have any axes to grind against either Turkics or Iranics since I have ancestry from both just like modern Turks or Azeri so I'll tell it as the evidence supports.

Once upon a time and for a long time Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians and their R1a dominated Central Asia and the Eurasian steppe. So basically 3000 year old Andronovo and their 2500 year old Scythian and Sarmatian relatives and their R1a were Indo-Iranian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture Fortunately Iranic languages are quite different from Turkic languages so it's easy to see that Scythians spoke Iranic language.

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai. In fact , Mongolians and Turks share a proto Mongolic/Turkic language.

The first Turkic Khagnate didn't show up in Central Asia until about 1500 years ago (Gokturks) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples
Good post. This time I agree with you.

[Yaglakar]

You have some useful points which I don’t disagree with. The rest I need to think about

You don't have to think about it. It's nonsense. It doesn't matter who reported what when the Sogdians left their own texts. The language is quite distinct from West Iranian languages, and branches would not be able to diverge significantly within such a small time scale.

[aklifal]

It just occurred to me that Ashina sounds similar to pashto Ospina which is iron and in kurdish it’s Asin. Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto . So it looks like some iranics borrowed turkic words and probably visa versa whereas some iranics totally language shifted to turkic

the name ashina is sogdian for blue, which symbolizes east, it has no relation to that word. sogdian was one of the official languages of kökturks. still doesn't mean that ruling tribe was of "iranic" origin.


Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto .

LOL xD 'ana' is an infantile word, similiar to 'nanny' in english. that's some really tryhard etymology right there.

[Zoro]

You don't have to think about it. It's nonsense. It doesn't matter who reported what when the Sogdians left their own texts. The language is quite distinct from West Iranian languages, and branches would not be able to diverge significantly within such a small time scale.

I know better than anyone they’re quite diverged since i can speak both Pashto and Kurdish but i also know both languages have picked up things from their neighboring languages over the past 1000 years. But yeah based on what I can see it appears like a 3000 year divergence

Also Pashto has Indo-Aryan Layer also. I see quite a few Sanskrit related words in Pashto that I don’t see in other Iranian languages. Those Sanskrit words may be Avastan

[Zoro]

the name ashina is sogdian for blue, which symbolizes east, it has no relation to that word. sogdian was one of the official languages of kökturks. still doesn't mean that ruling tribe was of "iranic" origin.



LOL xD 'ana' is an infantile word, similiar to 'nanny' in english. that's some really tryhard etymology right there.


Well shin is both Kurdish and pashto for blue but I thought Ashina was turkic

Ana in pashto is unlike what kurds or persians call grandma that’s why I thought they borrowed it from turkic

[eatensemn]

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai.

While you're trying to tell something, you have enormous mistakes:

1-R1a was also present in very early turks, along with r1b, j2 etc. So, when r1a itself was one of the founders of turks, you can't "turkify" it anymore. Moreso; claiming the turkification is something like getting mongolised is equal to claiming that human has only one parent.

2-Most of early turks were caucasoid male-mongoloid female couples and their descendants. This also clearly shows that movement was not always towards west and early turks were a confederation of steppe aryans and local mongoloids, a joint culture.

[Chelubey]

I know better than anyone they’re quite diverged since i can speak both Pashto and Kurdish but i also know both languages have picked up things from their neighboring languages over the past 1000 years. But yeah based on what I can see it appears like a 3000 year divergence

Also Pashto has Indo-Aryan Layer also. I see quite a few Sanskrit related words in Pashto that I don’t see in other Iranian languages. Those Sanskrit words may be Avastan
This is a Greek witness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
Here is a Russian link to his words and to mention of chinese sources. As I remember, the Chinese traveler who spoke about identity of Persian and Sogdian languages in 2th century BC had visited these regions.
https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/evolyutsiya-roda-v-iranskih-yazykah
These formal arguments (several evidences of contemporaries) cannot be rejected on the basis of subjective feelings (“They could not disperse so quickly - I do not believe it”). Science knows examples of fast evolution of languages. This is, for example, Old English.

[aklifal]

2-Most of early turks were caucasoid male-mongoloid female couples and their descendants. This also clearly shows that movement was not always towards west and early turks were a confederation of steppe aryans and local mongoloids, a joint culture.

Again with this "aryan male fucking mongol woman" bullshit fantasy. Those samples you're talking about have equal amounts of mongoloid and cockasoid mtDNA.

[eatensemn]

Again with this "aryan male fucking mongol woman" bullshit fantasy. Those samples you're talking about have equal amounts of mongoloid and cockasoid mtDNA.

Not really. Go and check every research. All they have found is mostly a caucasoid male lying besides a mongoloid female (and a horse). Of course there are some mongoloid males with caucasoid females and other boring same type couples. But your "y-dna micronationalism" is just a joke and has no chance to change the history.

[Bender1999]

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics[/B]. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).
[/url]

That is another point: if someone claims early iranians/IE had a lot of east eurasian, than you can read galore if postings like those samples are just outliners or rare, now its normal? Sycthia were a big steppe empire, never thought about other ethnicities inside this( no i dont mean turkics but their ancestors or other steppe people. But regarding Tadjiks: The republic, Usbekistan and just some Afghanistan Tadjiks score between 15-<25% east eurasian because they are heavily intermixed with their local turkic neighbors especially Usbeks. From Buchara to Dushanbe, this area is mixed with both people, there are uzbeks with low east eurasian and tadjiks with high east eurasian admix.


R1a-z93 is a steppe haplogroup, turkics and iranics have it. Why we are discussing about the origins of scythians or turkics? Scythians were iranic, at least their upper class, turkics are turkics.

[aklifal]

Not really. Go and check every research. All they have found is mostly a caucasoid male lying besides a mongoloid female (and a horse).

Nope. Out of all samples gathered from the steppe coridor, none had a dominant mtDNA line. It's mixed as it goes.
http://open-genomes.org/analysis/Eurasian_Steppe_Y-DNA_mtDNA_Gedmatch.html

Not to mention even westernmost scythians were morphologically mongoloids and had a significant mongoloid input in their aDNA. So your theory about handsome aryan men falls here. They were never cockasoids in first place. :laugh:


Of course there are some mongoloid males with caucasoid females and other boring same type couples. But your "y-dna micronationalism" is just a
joke and has no chance to change the history.

I'm the one who tries to change history :lol:? You're literally trying to whitewash turks here lmao.

"..and other boring same type couples" what kind of sick fetish is this xD

[eatensemn]

You're literally trying to whitewash turks here lmao. Turks, or proto-turks horribly predate white concepts. And i strongly believe that important amount of mongoloid in early turks comes from actual mongolians, turks lived side by side with them.

[Bender1999]

Turks, or proto-turks horribly predate white concepts. And i strongly believe that important amount of mongoloid in early turks comes from actual mongolians, turks lived side by side with them.

Now thats wrong. I also think early turkics werent more than 50% east eurasian, except some cases, but they were at least 20-30% mongoloid. Even Xiognu were between 30-70%, they definitely played an important role of the ethnogenesis of early turkics.

[Bender1999]

double