Have you been insulted/attacked by Cristiano Viejo?

[Duffmannn]

If so, what´s the funniest thing he has told to you?

[Sacrificed Ram]

If so, what´s the funniest thing he has told to you?

He said I'm descedant of rapes, I answered north african DNA peaks only 11% in Iberia.

But he was right, my retarded family tells with pride my great-greatgrandmother was an índia captured with a rope lace by my great-greatgrandfather on a horseback.

[Teutone]

Nope even tho he revoked his friendship with me after my DNA results said im 20% slavic

[TheMaestro]

There are some quotes :D He said he is 100% Spainard and when I asked to do his DNA test he said there is no way that someone can be 100% Spainard :D
He basically likes to contradict himself, which is funny.

[Tauromachos]

Nope

[Babak]

Nope

[Rocinante]

Panchito, Sudaca, Brown-being, Spaguetti, Moro, Indio.

Vamos, cosas parecidas a las que el OP suele hacer pero con mucha intelectualidad, lo que pasa es que son unos despistados al parecer.

[Erronkari]

I insist, 100% of you spanish users always gave me the most of respect, same portuguese ones and italian ones.
I´ve always recived the best treatment from all of you.
So, no, I´ve never recived insults from any spanish user, included CV.

[Renekton]

Nope

[Teutone]

Panchito, Sudaca, Brown-being, Spaguetti, Moro, Indio.

Vamos, cosas parecidas a las que el OP suele hacer pero con mucha intelectualidad, lo que pasa es que son unos despistados al parecer.

I can understand CV insulting a person feeling sad about recoquista and wishing the moors back.

[gixajo]

I can understand CV insulting a person feeling sad about recoquista and wishing the moors back.

Are you thiniking in Nassbean?

I can´t remember any other who could feel sad about Reconquista and wishing the moors back.

[Teutone]

Are you thiniking in Nassbean?

I can´t remember any other who could feel sad about Reconquista and wishing the moors back.

If moors as you implied, were good to Iberia.

Isnt it the logical consequence that you consider the reconquista a mistake?

[Son of Argentina]

He said I look Quadroon, probably because I have the Borreby subrace in my phenotype. He stated that Borrebies look Quadroon.

He gets very emotional when somebody criticizes his country or his people, which I find sweet, really. Cristiano loves his people and that's nice. There's no need for aggressive behavior, though.

But as a Catholic, I forgive him.

[gixajo]

If moors as you implied, were good to Iberia.

Isnt it the logical consequence that you consider the reconquista a mistake?

No, is not any logical consequence unlees you are unable to see the nuances I added in my opinions.

And I didn´t said that moors were good for Iberia, but if you didn´t understood me in that moment, I renounce to explain you the difference again between what you think I was defending and what I defended actually.

[PaleoEuropean]

I have insulted him more probably, but he is a good dude, just a little snobby and zealous.

[Teutone]

No, is not any logical consequence unlees you are unable to see the nuances I added in my opinions.

And I didn´t said that moors were good for Iberia, but if you didn´t understood me in that moment, I renounce to explain you the difference again between what you think I was defending and what I defended actually.

Go ahead.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Not insulted but probably the funniest thing he has told me is that I have super weird eyes, look Eastern European and would be immediately spotted as a foreigner in Spain.

[Luso]

said I look like a gypsy cause of slightly darker pigmentation and that my eyes look alien in Spain lol. But that's it.

[Rocinante]

I can understand CV insulting a person feeling sad about recoquista and wishing the moors back.

I never thought a kraut would fell in love with me, dude i already have a GF and I don't like old men. Sorry.

Also, Santiago Matamoros is my great grandfather.

[gixajo]

Not insulted but probably the funniest thing he has told me is that I have super weird eyes, look Eastern European and would be immediately spotted as a foreigner in Spain.

Eastern European? you? :confused:

[ÁGUIA]

Nothing but sweet nothings, like "you must be the lightest Northern Portuguese due to your 1/8 Galician to ever walk the earth".
NSFW, only to CV
Fun thing is that my Galician branch is precisely the darkest and more Mediterranean in appearance of the entire family.

[MinervaItalica]

Be insulted by him is a compliment. :laugh:

[gixajo]

I never thought a kraut would fell in love with me, dude i already have a GF and I don't like old men. Sorry.

Also, Santiago Matamoros is my great grandfather.

No creo que ningún español haya tenido ningún problema con ligar con alemanas. Es una mezcla habitual, un primo de mi madre está casado con una alemana (Kuhls), a mí me dió clases particulares de inglés una amiga de mi hermana de apellido Mieg, mi abuelo trabajó con su abuelo que era arquitecto y de mezcla de española y alemana, el ex-socio de mi padre se apellida Ulrich y es de Vitoria, a mi clase iba una chica de apellido Knorr también española. A cascoporro.

[Rocinante]

No creo que ningún español haya tenido ningún problema con ligar con alemanas. Es una mezcla habitual, un primo de mi madre está casado con una alemana (Kuhls), a mí me dió clases particulares de inglés una amiga de mi hermana de apellido Mieg, mi abuelo trabajó con su abuelo que era arquitecto y de mezcla de española y alemana, el ex-socio de mi padre se apellida Ulrich y es de Vitoria, a mi clase iba una chica de apellido Knorr también española. A cascoporro.

Una cosa es una alemana, cosa que ya esos tiempos se acabaron para mí, y otra cosa es un alemán, cosa que tengo 0 interés en siquiera saber tu nombre.

[Teutone]

No creo que ningún español haya tenido ningún problema con ligar con alemanas. Es una mezcla habitual, un primo de mi madre está casado con una alemana (Kuhls), a mí me dió clases particulares de inglés una amiga de mi hermana de apellido Mieg, mi abuelo trabajó con su abuelo que era arquitecto y de mezcla de española y alemana, el ex-socio de mi padre se apellida Ulrich y es de Vitoria, a mi clase iba una chica de apellido Knorr también española. A cascoporro.

Adoro a España y a los españoles.

[gixajo]

Una cosa es una alemana, cosa que ya esos tiempos se acabaron para mí, y otra cosa es un alemán, cosa que tengo 0 interés en siquiera saber tu nombre.

Ah bueno, tomé lo de Kraut como genérico...:picard1:

[Rocinante]

Ah bueno, tomé lo de Kraut como genérico...:picard1:

No te preocupes. Kraut es peyorativo para los hombres alemanes, no se si para mujeres también.

[gixajo]

Adoro a España y a los españoles.

Yo a todos no.;)

[Luso]

Nothing but sweet nothings, like "you must be the lightest Northern Portuguese due to your 1/8 Galician to ever walk the earth".
NSFW, only to CV
Fun thing is that my Galician branch is precisely the darkest and more Mediterranean in appearance of the entire family.

Lol, he called me a gypsy lul

[Mortimer]

Never he did say I'm not white but that's not an insult

[Marmara]

His posts are hilarious to read.

[Teutone]

Never he did say I'm not white but that's not an insult


https://youtu.be/wM6L092e0jU

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Eastern European? you? :confused:

да.

[Cristiano viejo]

Hahaha, great thread of one of my obsessed-with-me fans :laugh:

Pity that most of people are fucking his agenda :laugh:

[Cristiano viejo]

да.

No, I said you have goa eyes, not Eastern European.
And it is true.

[Duffmannn]

Pity that most of people are fucking his agenda :laugh:

No agenda.

Only brotherhood between brownies:

https://image.ibb.co/gOjgCn/1472026633120.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

No agenda.

]realmente tú sí te pareces a ese.
Por culpa de mongrels como tú nos llaman a todos Moros.

Y sí, pequeño manchego, tienes una agenda y una obsesión muy marcadas. No pasa nada, nadie te recrimina nada, simplemente que sepas que se te nota mucho.

[Duffmannn]

realmente tú sí te pareces a ese.
Por culpa de mongrels como tú nos llaman a todos Moros.

Y sí, pequeño manchego, tienes una agenda y una obsesión muy marcadas. No pasa nada, nadie te recrimina nada, simplemente que sepas que se te nota mucho.

Salam Aleikum!

[hmaohma78]

Nope but I got to admit he does make me laugh from time to time with his post.

[El_Abominacion]

Nope

[gixajo]

realmente tú sí te pareces a ese.
Por culpa de mongrels como tú nos llaman a todos Moros.

Y sí, pequeño manchego, tienes una agenda y una obsesión muy marcadas. No pasa nada, nadie te recrimina nada, simplemente que sepas que se te nota mucho.

Puedes aprovechar que en la encuesta vienen los niks de todos para hacer una lista de los que te faltan por insultar.:rofl_002:

[Cristiano viejo]

Nope but I got to admit he does make me laugh from time to time with his post.

Destroying the manchegus agenda :laugh:

[Rocinante]

Nope but I got to admit he does make me laugh from time to time with his post.

He actually is good on that, i fucking laugh my ass off with some of his old post.

[Adamm]

I don't think I've been insulted by him.

[FinalFlash]

No, CV is a classy gentleman.

[Ranger0075]

He called me bald guy, i cried a river that day

[hmaohma78]

He actually is good on that, i fucking laugh my ass off with some of his old post.
Deleted reposted twice

[hmaohma78]

He actually is good on that, i fucking laugh my ass off with some of his old post.
Yeah his post were very funny I remeber seeing his old post becuase I spent 5 years lurking this site but never made a account until this year. For sure he is one of the most entertaining and memorable user on this site.

[Cristiano viejo]

Hahaha, the swarthy manchegus with the ass in fire... A thread made to attack me turned in a meeting of supporters :laugh:

[Teutone]

CV is the king of TA

He finished TA and speedrun it 5times

[Rocinante]

Hahaha, the swarthy manchegus with the ass in fire... A thread made to attack me turned in a meeting of supporters :laugh:

Just for the public and my curiosity, why was one of your most favorite targets to insult? Dude everyone here is happy with you, it's incredible :lol:

[Duffmannn]

CV is so anthro-implied that he really thinks that "swarthy", "brown" or so is an insult.

By that reason he's very easy to anger.

[templumForasticus]

I don't think I've been insulted by him.

For what do you have Abd El-Krim avatar

[Rocinante]

CV is so anthro-implied that he really thinks that "swarthy", "brown" or so is an insult.

By that reason he's very easy to anger.

You are not brown.

[HelloGuys]

No; he has been respectful with me; the other spaniards members have been cool with me too

[Javiberius]

Bump

[Cristiano viejo]

CV is so anthro-implied that he really thinks that "swarthy", "brown" or so is an insult.

By that reason he's very easy to anger.
Thanks for proving yes, swarthy is an insult :laugh2:


Just for the public and my curiosity, why was one of your most favorite targets to insult? Dude everyone here is happy with you, it's incredible :lol:

I thought you were another brown immigrant parasiting in Spain. You should have said who you were really.

[Cristiano viejo]

That Cristiano Viejo guy is NO cristiano at all!!! People like him are the reason why Christianity is loathed the whole world entirely.

That ass said some non-objective things about me in my personal reclassification thread, calling me a Dominican when in fact I’m not! When others were looking at my DNA heritage admixture results ,which proved I have a healthy amount of Iberian, he didn’t even bothered to correct his wrong. My point is, if you’re not a humble person, then what good it is calling yourself a “Cristiano” if you can’t even exercise any ounce of humility. If you’re reading this Viejo, I believe you’re a pretentious hypocrite!
My apologizes, I called you Dominican. :lol:

[Rocinante]

I thought you were another brown immigrant parasiting in Spain. You should have said who you were really.

I thought i told like 243252423525433213 times but okay, if you are going to be kind and an ally with me from now on: :thumb001:

[Javiberius]

My apologizes, I called you Dominican. :lol:

Unbelievable, not only are you a wannabe Christian, but a racist. Apology accepted...Viejo

[Duffmannn]

This thread is a golden opportunity to be insulted by CV.

You should take advantege of it.

[Adamm]

For what do you have Abd El-Krim avatar

Moroccan Aesthetics.

[Ülev]

no

[Cristiano viejo]

Moroccan Aesthetics.

Is not Jan Janszoon van Haarlem that Dutch pirate that had several children with North African women and then some of them was one of the founders of New Amsterdam??

[Tauromachos]

Christiano doesn't attack if you don't fight with him or say something odd about Spaniards

[Adamm]

Is not Jan Janszoon van Haarlem that Dutch pirate that had several children with North African women and then some of them was one of the founders of New Amsterdam??

Yes.

[The Lawspeaker]

Moroccan Aesthetics.


Morrocan
Aesthetics.

Choose one.

[Altaison]

He said I look Quadroon, probably because I have the Borreby subrace in my phenotype. He stated that Borrebies look Quadroon.

He gets very emotional when somebody criticizes his country or his people, which I find sweet, really. Cristiano loves his people and that's nice. There's no need for aggressive behavior, though.

But as a Catholic, I forgive him.

Quadroons and octoroons are generally good looking people. I would take it as a compliment.

[gixajo]

Moroccan Aesthetics.

I posted already for you the image of an Spanish youtuber who looks like Abd-El-krim...

https://i.imgur.com/bc3i9UD.png

[Damião de Góis]

No, or at least i don't remember. However a while ago he claimed that all portuguese users were spanish wannabes.

[The Blade]

Never. Cristiano is one of the most misunderstood members here. Many people are jealous to him.

[eatensemn]

No but there was a close call. Once i said that fealid is rare type in spain. He immediately spotted me and -thinking that i said something bad about spainard pigmentation- threw some words. So it's very simple i think, don't say anything "bad" about pigmentation in spain, he's happy and you're happy.

[TheMaestro]

CV is the king of TA

He finished TA and speedrun it 5times

Why do you lick his ass in every second thread.

[Cristiano viejo]

No, or at least i don't remember. However a while ago he claimed that all portuguese users were spanish wannabes.
No, no, you are wrong. I did not say that about all Portuguese users. I said that about all Portuguese in general :lightbul:


Why do you lick his ass in every second thread.

You jealous, BLade is right :D

[Damião de Góis]

No, no, you are wrong. I did not say that about all Portuguese users. I said that about all Portuguese in general :lightbul:


Then you don't know anything about the portuguese.

[Joso]

no

[Cristiano viejo]

Then you don't know anything about the portuguese.

Let be honest. Or i expreses myself badly, or you did not understand what I said correctly. When I say all Portuguese are wannabe Spanish was not because I thought you want to be spaniards BUUUUUT because I consider, and I think everyone would do, Portuguese were born from spaniards.

Am I wrong?

[Rabbit Hole]

No, therefore he owes me a creampie.

[Gründig]

No, therefore he owes me a cream pie.

Damn, she wants a cream pie.....

[Rabbit Hole]

Damn, she wants a cream pie.....

Actually, it's one word according to Urban Dictionary ( whatever it still stands ) .

creampie :)

[Damião de Góis]

Let be honest. Or i expreses myself badly, or you did not understand what I said correctly. When I say all Portuguese are wannabe Spanish was not because I thought you want to be spaniards BUUUUUT because I consider, and I think everyone would do, Portuguese were born from spaniards.

Am I wrong?

I think you said both on different ocasions. In any case, concerning this, it's not correct because there was no Spain (as we know it) when Portugal became a kingdom on its own. The word "spaniards" means the population of the country Spain.

[Cristiano viejo]

I think you said both on different ocasions. In any case, concerning this, it's not correct because there was no Spain (as we know it) when Portugal became a kingdom on its own. The word "spaniards" means the population of the country Spain.

Please, endovélico...

[Armenian Bishop]

Never he did say I'm not white but that's not an insult

English isn't your primary language, so I'll help you make that more comprehendible. Here, I fixed it for you:
Never! He did say that I'm not white, but that's not an insult.

[Cristiano viejo]

English isn't your primary language, so I'll help you make that more comprehendible. Here, I fixed it for you:
Never! He did say, "I'm not white." But, that's not an insult.

Vote, my aronian.

[Kivan]

Personally, no.

[TheMaestro]

No, no, you are wrong. I did not say that about all Portuguese users. I said that about all Portuguese in general :lightbul:



You jealous, BLade is right :D

How can be someone be jealous of someone from internet XD Do you have a mercedes G class? Then I would be jealous.

[Cristiano viejo]

How can be someone be jealous of someone from internet XD Do you have a mercedes G class? Then I would be jealous.

You are jealous becaus despite all the efforts of people like you or that dumbmann, a lot of persons here are ok with me.

No, I don't have any Mercedes. But one of my ex was called so, Mercedes. Does that count? :D

[Armenian Bishop]

Somos camaradas aquí. Él siempre honra a los Cristianos Armenios.

We are comrades here. He always honors Armenian Christians.

[Cristiano viejo]

Somos camaradas aquí. Él siempre honra a los Cristianos Armenios.

We are comrades here. He always honors Armenian Christians.

:thumb001::thumb001:

[TheMaestro]

You are jealous becaus despite all the efforts of people like you or that dumbmann, a lot of persons here are ok with me.

No, I don't have any Mercedes. But one of my ex was called so, Mercedes. Does that count? :D

Hmm there are many people that don’t like me here, I don’t like you either, you are offensive and have ridicolous statements, but it’s internet sl when I turn of TA, I don’t give three fuck what happens here. People seem to have very strong emotional connection to internet for some reason.


Nah Mercedes doesn’t count, it’s not just the mercedes it’s the G-class. You see mercedeses everywhere, but you don’t just see the nice G-Class.

[Cristiano viejo]

Hmm there are many people that don’t like me here, I don’t like you either, you are offensive and have ridicolous statements, but it’s internet sl when I turn of TA, I don’t give three fuck what happens here. People seem to have very strong emotional connection to internet for some reason.


Nah Mercedes doesn’t count, it’s not just the mercedes it’s the G-class. You see mercedeses everywhere, but you don’t just see the nice G-Class.

Time ago You gave these three fucks since You wanted to Beat and even kill me. You asked for my Adress etc. It Was funny reading You.

[Mr.G]

No. I don't think he's even ever heard of me.

[Cristiano viejo]

No. I don't think he's even ever heard of me.

Ofc i do. Simply no problem with You. Why should?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Or i expreses myself badly, or you did not understand what I said correctly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr2E9crpHbM

[Cristiano viejo]

[video=youtube;qr2E9crpHbM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr2
It is an honor for me to speak english in this way. BUT i am in my iPad and changes the words itself constantly. I not even bother to correct it.

Don't be so sensitive about my thoughts on your eyes, the true reason of your stupid post.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

It is an honor for me to speak english in this way. BUT i am in my iPad and changes the words itself constantly. I not even bother to correct it.

Don't be so sensitive about my thoughts on your eyes, the true reason of your stupid post.

It is not even about you implying that perhaps your message wasn't clear (more than often it is not) but the absurdity of what you said regarding the Portuguese.

[Cristiano viejo]

It is not even about you implying that perhaps your message wasn't clear (more than often it is not) but the absurdity of what you said regarding the Portuguese.

Why absurd? First, it is my humble opinion. Second, it is the undeniable truth. Portuguese descend from leonese, Galicians and castilians, and afaik, these people are spaniards.

[TheMaestro]

Time ago You gave these three fucks since You wanted to Beat and even kill me. You asked for my Adress etc. It Was funny reading You.

I would meet you even now, I have ADHD and write impulsivelly, It’s internet I even mock myself. I wouldn’t mind fighting you, it’s not like a big deal, your’e not my friend, so why not. Dont make up the killing thingy tho. I certainly thing you are very different IRL than you present yourself here.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Why absurd? First, it is my humble opinion. Second, it is the undeniable truth. Portuguese descend from leonese, Galicians and castilians, and afaik, these people are spaniards.

"Spaniard" is not even a real ethnos. It is just a citizenship or an identity if one may say so to represent a country known as Spain and its citizens, which has multiple ethnos within its borders. A real ethnos consists of the Portuguese for example, as there is no doubt of what being a Portuguese consists from north to south to the islands. It is just my humble opinion nonetheless.

The undeniable truth though is that the County of Portugal was firstly an extension of the Kingdom of Asturias and the Kingdom of Galiza and later on Leon. It had little to do with Castille. Prevalent languages were Galician-Portuguese and Asturoleonese. In any case, Portugal is the oldest nation-state of the Iberian Peninsula and predates for centuries Spain and its "Spaniards".

[Cristiano viejo]

"Spaniard" is not even a real ethnos. It is just a citizenship or an identity if one may say so to represent a country known as Spain and its citizens, which has multiple ethnos within its borders. A real ethnos consists of the Portuguese for example, as there is no doubt of what being a Portuguese consists from north to south to the islands. It is just my humble opinion nonetheless.

The undeniable truth though is that the County of Portugal was firstly an extension of the Kingdom of Asturias and the Kingdom of Galiza and later on Leon. It had little to do with Castille. Prevalent languages were Galician-Portuguese and Asturoleonese. In any case, Portugal is the oldest nation-state of the Iberian Peninsula and predates for centuries Spain and its "Spaniards".

Technicalities trying to justify an undeniable fatc. Lol at "Spain did not exist as nation at that time".
Does not matter if you want to call them spaniards or just leonese, Galicians, castilians etc. you descend from them, and they are known around the world with the name of, YES, SPaniards.

Perhaps you think the garcía of your nickname is a native Portuguese surname :rolleyes:

[Luso]

Technicalities trying to justify an undeniable fatc. Lol at "Spain did not exist as nation at that time".
Does not matter if you want to call them spaniards or just leonese, Galicians, castilians etc. you descend from them, and they are known around the world with the name of, YES, SPaniards.

Perhaps you think the garcía of your nickname is a native Portuguese surname :rolleyes:

Portugal... United as a country in 1143. Spain... United as a country `400 yrs later in 1512.

PORTUGAL>ESPANA

[Cristiano viejo]

Portugal... United as a country in 1143. Spain... United as a country `400 yrs later in 1512.

PORTUGAL>ESPANA

Portugal is just anther Iberian region more which by circumstances became a kingdom.
León or Asturias being kingdoms much more older than Portugal was, by circumstances became regions.

I could not care less about these geopolitical moves. I am talking about peoples. And it were peoples from this part of the peninsula called Spain who reconquered and repopulated what now is Portugal. FACT.

You descend from them.

[Arsen_]

Yes, he insulted me for absolutely no reason, when I just said that the Spanish men degenerated from the proud race of conquistadors to cheap slut's worshipers and freaks.

[Mortimer]

I like him. I imagine him as Gitano. I know he is not though but I think of him as one.

[Mixdguy17]

Cristiano is really strict and doesnt really care about hurting your feeligs or not, but he's a good guy tbh, and I've seen him be kind to many people. I respect him. He's like one of those really strict disciplined teachers at school, but that is a good person that's devoted to his job and u wanna pass his class or that reason.

[Rocinante]

I like him. I imagine him as Gitano. I know he is not though but I think of him as one.


https://youtu.be/kSrDAnI9pmU

[Armenian Bishop]

Yes, he insulted me for absolutely no reason, when I just said that the Spanish men degenerated from the proud race of conquistadors to cheap slut's worshipers and freaks.

I don't know what happened there, but I've never had a problem with Cristiano. Through the years, I've sent him a number of articles and videos about Armenia's historical, religious and political issues, and he has always shown solidarity to our cause. He probably perceived your demeanor as abrasive, give him another chance.

[Arsen_]

I don't know what happened there, but I've never had a problem with Cristiano. Through the years, I've sent him a number of articles and videos about Armenia's historical, religious and political issues, and he has always shown solidarity to our cause. He probably perceived your demeanor as abrasive, give him another chance.

Well I have nothing against him, most likely he is a nice guy in real life. :thumb001:

[Vojnik]

Never insulted, but haven't really had much dialogue with him on here.

[gixajo]

Vas a salir absuelto CV!!!

[Gota_type_]

Why absurd? First, it is my humble opinion. Second, it is the undeniable truth. Portuguese descend from leonese, Galicians and castilians, and afaik, these people are spaniards.

The funny thing here (that portuguese people don´t want to hear) is that we founded Portugal and the only reason why they have this name "Portugal" is because people from Spain founded the "Portucale county". In fact, Spain iniciated the Reconquista in Portugal and we were the first rulers of the portuguese nation. So, it thanks to us that they are not moros now. The only mistake is that french bastard that betrayed the Leon Kingdom (the Borgoña traitor):

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal

"Con la idea de acabar con este clima independentista de la nobleza local en relación al dominio leonés, el rey Alfonso VI de León entregó el gobierno del condado de Galicia, que en aquel momento incluía las llamadas «tierras de Portucale», al conde Raimundo de Borgoña. Tras muchos fracasos militares de Raimundo contra los árabes, Alfonso VI decidió dar en 1096 al primo de este, el conde Enrique de Borgoña, el gobierno de las tierras más al sur del condado de Galicia fundándose así el condado Portucalense. Con el gobierno del conde Enrique de Borgoña, el condado conoció no solo una política militar más eficaz en la lucha contra los árabes, sino también una política independentista más activa.

Tras su muerte y la llegada al poder de su hijo Alfonso Enríquez, Portugal consiguió la independencia con la firma en 1143 del tratado de Zamora y reconocida por el papa Alejandro III en la bula Manifestis Probatum en 1179."




"Spaniard" is not even a real ethnos. It is just a citizenship or an identity if one may say so to represent a country known as Spain and its citizens, which has multiple ethnos within its borders. A real ethnos consists of the Portuguese for example, as there is no doubt of what being a Portuguese consists from north to south to the islands. It is just my humble opinion nonetheless.

The undeniable truth though is that the County of Portugal was firstly an extension of the Kingdom of Asturias and the Kingdom of Galiza and later on Leon. It had little to do with Castille. Prevalent languages were Galician-Portuguese and Asturoleonese. In any case, Portugal is the oldest nation-state of the Iberian Peninsula and predates for centuries Spain and its "Spaniards".

Read what I have just written. You, like it or not, are a consequence of Spanish kingdoms. We iniciated your Reconquista, were your first rulers, gave you your language (Galician-Asturleones), and founded the substrate of your nation (Portucale county). It is just History. And Spain as an identity-cultural and political concept already existed with the visigoths. They named themshelves as "Rex Totus Spaniae", King of all Spain, 500 years before we gave you the name of Portucale=Portugal.

No hard feelings, but this is History.

[MinervaItalica]

Portugal... United as a country in 1143. Spain... United as a country `400 yrs later in 1512.

PORTUGAL>ESPANA

Meh it's easy to unify such a small country at the borders of Europe, that had basically 0 tumultuous events and with only Spain in its ass as only threat...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

"Being the first nation on the Iberian Peninsula, Portugal emerged earlier than Spain and formed as a kingdom on 24 June 1128 after winning the Battle of São Mamede in an effort led by Afonso Henriques, who proclaimed himself King of Portugal on 25 July 1139 after defeating the Moors in the Battle of Ourique, all within the Reconquista. Henriques was recognized as such in 1143 by King Alfonso VII of León and in 1179 by Pope Alexander III."

"We founded Portugal and Spain initiated the Reconquista": anachronisms.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Meh it's easy to unify such a small country at the borders of Europe, that had basically 0 tumultuous events and with only Spain in its ass as only threat...

:lol:

Absolute zero knowledge about Portuguese history. Zero tumultuous events? Only "Spain" as a neighbor (a country five times bigger), basically a kingdom that had one of the biggest empires of Europe. It would have been safer to have the scattered Italic states as a neighbor.

[Luso]

The funny thing here (that portuguese people don´t want to hear) is that we founded Portugal and the only reason why they have this name "Portugal" is because people from Spain founded the "Portucale county". In fact, Spain iniciated the Reconquista in Portugal and we were the first rulers of the portuguese nation. So, it thanks to us that they are not moros now. The only mistake is that french bastard that betrayed the Leon Kingdom (the Borgoña traitor):

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal

"Con la idea de acabar con este clima independentista de la nobleza local en relación al dominio leonés, el rey Alfonso VI de León entregó el gobierno del condado de Galicia, que en aquel momento incluía las llamadas «tierras de Portucale», al conde Raimundo de Borgoña. Tras muchos fracasos militares de Raimundo contra los árabes, Alfonso VI decidió dar en 1096 al primo de este, el conde Enrique de Borgoña, el gobierno de las tierras más al sur del condado de Galicia fundándose así el condado Portucalense. Con el gobierno del conde Enrique de Borgoña, el condado conoció no solo una política militar más eficaz en la lucha contra los árabes, sino también una política independentista más activa.

Tras su muerte y la llegada al poder de su hijo Alfonso Enríquez, Portugal consiguió la independencia con la firma en 1143 del tratado de Zamora y reconocida por el papa Alejandro III en la bula Manifestis Probatum en 1179."





Read what I have just written. You, like it or not, are a consequence of Spanish kingdoms. We iniciated your Reconquista, were your first rulers, gave you your language (Galician-Asturleones), and founded the substrate of your nation (Portucale county). It is just History. And Spain as an identity-cultural and political concept already existed with the visigoths. They named themshelves as "Rex Totus Spaniae", King of all Spain, 500 years before we gave you the name of Portucale=Portugal.

No hard feelings, but this is History.

Using Wikipedia as a source lmao. Anyway, Portus Cale didn’t originate from the Spanish it came from the Gallaeci who were in Cale- ancient town in northern Portugal. These are the facts.

[templumForasticus]

Somos camaradas aquí. Él siempre honra a los Cristianos Armenios.

We are comrades here. He always honors Armenian Christians.

Viva Armenia !!

[TheMaestro]

Portugal is just anther Iberian region more which by circumstances became a kingdom.
León or Asturias being kingdoms much more older than Portugal was, by circumstances became regions.

I could not care less about these geopolitical moves. I am talking about peoples. And it were peoples from this part of the peninsula called Spain who reconquered and repopulated what now is Portugal. FACT.

You descend from them.

I know you have always ridicoulous statements but come on. Portugal is one of most respected countries in the world with deep history and great historic figures. Calling them Spainards is a total nonsense. They have their core of nation, you may have come from the same people but at the end of the day you created your own civilizations and society, thats how you divide them. Its like saying Swedes are Germans.

[Chaos One]

Well, I don't know why people care about it at all. TA is clearly a forum where people do care more about image and agendas...so CV is just one more guy doing his job as anyone here.

If you guys just want some proper/serious discussion about other things, go to Anthrogenica. TA is basically a bashing forum. Just ignore people if you want to hold any serious talks.

[MinervaItalica]

:lol:

Absolute zero knowledge about Portuguese history. Zero tumultuous events? Only "Spain" as a neighbor (a country five times bigger), basically a kingdom that had one of the biggest empires of Europe. It would have been safer to have the scattered Italic states as a neighbor.

Yes only Spain or, to be precise, Iberians Kingdoms since there wasn't "Spain" in 12th century. Portugal, unlike Italy never been a target of other major european powers at one time such France and the HRE due to its strategic and cultural importance. Your ass was safe and secure at the borders of Europe and with only one nation bordering you. :p

Depends which state, if it was Genoa or Venice you would probably end up as a their colony... :laugh: they were pretty greedy.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Depends which state, if it was Genoa or Venice you would probably end up as a their colony... :laugh: they were pretty greedy.

I am sure we would have ended up as their colony...they were really powerful, probably that is why Spain established complete hegemony over all the Italian states expect Venice whereas we are still a sovereign state.

[MinervaItalica]

I am sure we would have ended up as their colony...they were really powerful, probably that is why Spain established complete hegemony over all the Italian states expect Venice whereas we are still a sovereign state.

Absolute 0 knowledge about Italian history :p

[Damião de Góis]

Read what I have just written. You, like it or not, are a consequence of Spanish kingdoms. We iniciated your Reconquista, were your first rulers, gave you your language (Galician-Asturleones), and founded the substrate of your nation (Portucale county). It is just History. And Spain as an identity-cultural and political concept already existed with the visigoths. They named themshelves as "Rex Totus Spaniae", King of all Spain, 500 years before we gave you the name of Portucale=Portugal.

No hard feelings, but this is History.

It is a consequence of reconquista yes. Our first ruler was born in Guimarães, i think at the time it belonged to the Portucalense County and when he died it was already considered kingdom of Portugal. As for the language it was already there so it wasn't given to us. It also isn't native to the land since it's a romance language. As for founding the substract of the nation, i think the concept of Portugal only exists after it was self proclaimed a new kingdom, after that it created its own path. So much that our language is very difficult for modern spaniards nowadays.


Meh it's easy to unify such a small country at the borders of Europe, that had basically 0 tumultuous events and with only Spain in its ass as only threat...

Portugal wasn't really unified but forged through battle against the moors and spanish kingdoms. So i wouldn't say it was so easy. It also wasn't easy to maintain for almost 900 years, we lost it twice for short periods of time to the spanish and to the french.

[MinervaItalica]

It also wasn't easy to maintain for almost 900 years, we lost it twice for short periods of time to the spanish and to the french.

When you basically have only 1 or 2 powers that stick their noses into your affairs is quite easy. Another story when you've 4 or 5. Also geographical position plays a quite important role.

[Damião de Góis]

When you basically have only 1 or 2 powers that stick their noses into your affairs is quite easy. Another story when you've 4 or 5. Also geographical position plays a quite important role.

Our geographical position being an advantage against attacks is undeniable. But those 2 times were the times they actually succeeded, not every time it happened.

[Gota_type_]

"Being the first nation on the Iberian Peninsula, Portugal emerged earlier than Spain and formed as a kingdom on 24 June 1128 after winning the Battle of São Mamede in an effort led by Afonso Henriques, who proclaimed himself King of Portugal on 25 July 1139 after defeating the Moors in the Battle of Ourique, all within the Reconquista. Henriques was recognized as such in 1143 by King Alfonso VII of León and in 1179 by Pope Alexander III."

"We founded Portugal and Spain initiated the Reconquista": anachronisms.

"founded the substrate of your nation (Portucale county)".

And yes, we iniciated your Reconquista and were the first rulers. Your language is also thanks to us. And I say this just because Portuguese normally try to sell "we are the oldest nation in Europe" as saying that it was your merit, when in fact, it was "our" shared merit. A country which is 4-5 times smaller than Spain it is easy to understand that it is more easy to end a task like Reconquista "of lands".



Using Wikipedia as a source lmao. Anyway, Portus Cale didn’t originate from the Spanish it came from the Gallaeci who were in Cale- ancient town in northern Portugal. These are the facts.

I live nearer to Portugal than you and I belong to the región that gave birth to your country (in the case you are 100% portuguese that I still don´t believe it). And I used Wikipedia as I could use many other sources that prove the exact same thing.

//And now back to Cristiano.

[Luso]

"founded the substrate of your nation (Portucale county)".

And yes, we iniciated your Reconquista and were the first rulers. Your language is also thanks to us. And I say this just because Portuguese normally try to sell "we are the oldest nation in Europe" as saying that it was your merit, when in fact, it was "our" shared merit. A country which is 4-5 times smaller than Spain it is easy to understand that it is more easy to end a task like Reconquista "of lands".




I live nearer to Portugal than you and I belong to the región that gave birth to your country (in the case you are 100% Portuguese that I still don´t believe it). And I used Wikipedia as I could use many other sources that prove the exact same thing.

//And now back to Cristiano.


I lived in Portugal for the first 3 years of my life then moved to the US. No shit, obviously you live closer to Portugal because I live in NY now. And yeah. I am 100% Portuguese- feel free to check my DNA testing.

Our language isn't thanks to you... it is thanks to Latin (via Roman Empire) and Galicia which is more autonomous with Portugal genetically and in history than with Spain, my friend.

[Cristiano viejo]

I like him. I imagine him as Gitano. I know he is not though but I think of him as one.
:lol:


Vas a salir absuelto CV!!!
Y encima las costas le va a tocar pagarlas al swarthy manchegus, jojojo


I know you have always ridicoulous statements but come on. Portugal is one of most respected countries in the world with deep history and great historic figures. Calling them Spainards is a total nonsense. They have their core of nation, you may have come from the same people but at the end of the day you created your own civilizations and society, thats how you divide them. Its like saying Swedes are Germans.
I am not calling them spaniards. I am saying thy descend from spaniards and that spaniards reconquered and repopulated north Portugal, which of course belonged to us until its independence.

Ridiculous statements is saying irrelevant things as Portugal is a great nation, very respected etc. this has nothing to do with that.


Yes only Spain or, to be precise, Iberians Kingdoms since there wasn't "Spain" in 12th century. Portugal, unlike Italy never been a target of other major european powers at one time such France and the HRE due to its strategic and cultural importance. Your ass was safe and secure at the borders of Europe and with only one nation bordering you. :p

Depends which state, if it was Genoa or Venice you would probably end up as a their colony... :laugh: they were pretty greedy.
Genoa or Venice? Lol. Genoa even ended being a puppet of Spain.



It is a consequence of reconquista yes. Our first ruler was born in Guimarães, i think at the time it belonged to the Portucalense County and when he died it was already considered kingdom of Portugal.
Guimaraes was founded by a spaniard and its name is due him, Vímara Pérez.
You already know that.

[MinervaItalica]

Genoa or Venice? Lol. Genoa even ended being a puppet of Spain.


Genoa puppet state of Spain? What kind of history did you study? :rolleyes:
Rep of Genoa was independent from around 11th century to the end of 18th century. Occupied perhaps but never a "puppet state" lol
More like Spain being a genoese banking colony. :thumb001:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Repubblica_di_Genova.png/1024px-Repubblica_di_Genova.png

[Latinus]

Yep. Called me Sudaca, for example. But this is just an Internet forum, outside the virtual world, Cv is very polite and doesn't harm anyone, not even a fly.

[Roy]

I also share this trauma.

[Samnium]

I am sure we would have ended up as their colony...they were really powerful, probably that is why Spain established complete hegemony over all the Italian states expect Venice whereas we are still a sovereign state.

Just LOL.

I don't know what you know of Italian Middle Ages history... Probably nothing.

Minerva Italica has already debunked your lies, I wouldn't engage in a worthless debate.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Just LOL.

I don't know what you know of Italian Middle Ages history... Probably nothing.

Minerva Italica has already debunked your lies, I wouldn't engage in a worthless debate.

Spanish victory in Italy

In the immediate wake of the sack of Rome and the consequent disgrace of the Medici papacy, the Florentines expelled their Medici overlords. A French army under General Odet de Foix Lautrec finally arrived in 1528, but Andrea Doria, a Genoese admiral and aristocrat whose galleys had formerly been in the service of the French, unexpectedly switched sides and became a staunch supporter of Charles V. Plague took Lautrec’s life and decimated the French army, and in 1529 the pope was forced to make peace with Charles in the Treaty of Barcelona—as did Francis I in the Treaty of Cambrai. After almost 40 years of war, Italy submitted to Spanish pacification. Francis I renounced his claims in Italy, as well as in Artois and Flanders. The last Sforza was restored in Milan with the provision that the duchy would pass to Spain upon his death. Venice lost its recent mainland conquests. The Papal States were restored, and in 1530 the pope crowned Charles V emperor and king of Italy and made vague promises to call a council to address the Protestant schism and reform the church. In exchange, Spanish forces reinstated the Medici in Florence.

Italy remained subject to sporadic French incursions into Savoy in 1536–38 and 1542–44 during a third and fourth Habsburg-Valois war, and Spain’s Italian possessions were increasingly taxed to support Charles’s continual campaigns; however, for the remainder of his reign, Charles’s armies fought the French, the Ottomans, and the Protestant princes outside Italy. Notable for Italy was Charles V’s capture of Tunis in 1535 and his glorious march up the Italian peninsula in 1536 to confirm his personal rule. But the Ottomans formally allied themselves with France against the Habsburgs thereafter, defeated an allied fleet at Prevesa, retook Tunis in 1538, and stepped up their assault on the Venetian empire in the Mediterranean. With the eventual failure of Charles’s attempts to secure Germany, his great continental empire was divided. Italy became a part of the Spanish Habsburg inheritance of his son, Philip II (ruled 1556–98), and, after the Spanish victory over the French at St. Quentin (1557), the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis (1559) officially confirmed the era of Spanish domination that had existed in Italy since 1530.

Spanish Italy

Spain thus established complete hegemony over all the Italian states except Venice, which alone maintained its independence. Several Italian states were ruled directly, while others remained Spanish dependents. Naples, Sicily, and Sardinia (which had all been dependencies of Aragon), as well as Milan, came under direct Spanish rule and owed their allegiance to the sovereign according to their own laws and traditions. Their foreign policy interests were subordinated to the imperial designs of Spain, which also appointed their chief officers (viceroys in Naples, Palermo, and Cagliari; a governor in Milan) and administered their internal affairs through local councils. From the beginning of Philip II’s reign, Italian affairs, which had originally been administered by the Council of Aragon, were coordinated by a Council of Italy in Madrid. At this council, the three major states—Naples, Sicily, and Milan—were each represented by two regents, one Castilian and one native. Sardinia remained a dependency of Aragon. The king, however, continued to receive and be responsive to embassies sent by various groups outside official channels until the Spanish Habsburg line died out in 1700.

A vitriolic anti-Spanish polemic has long dominated the historiography of early modern Italy. It accuses Spanish rule of an authoritarianism closed to new ideas and innovation, of presiding over an empty formalism in literary expression, and of promoting spagnolismo, an exaggerated and ostentatious pomp—all perceived as the fruits of a decadent, backward-looking colonial domination. Faulting Spain for trying to integrate Italy within its absolutist and imperial program or blaming Italy’s 17th-century decline on Spanish social and economic policies has served nationalistic fervour since the 16th century, but it has missed both the benefits of Spanish rule to Italian peace and security and the main causes of crisis in 17th-century Italy. To understand the latter, one must examine the internal conflicts and economic impediments that existed within the Italian states themselves rather than look to an absentee Spanish scapegoat. And, above all, early modern Italy must be understood in a wider European context and in relation to the economic shifts wrought by the new Asian and American trade. The touchstone for modern scholarship is Fernand Braudel’s The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II (1949), which continues to inspire and challenge research into Philip II’s empire and beyond.

Source: https://www.britannica.com/place/Italy/Spanish-Italy


"Yo Just LOL.

ah don' know what you know o' Italian Middle Ages history... prob'ly nuttin'.

Minerva Italica has already debunked yo' lies, ah wouldn't engage in uh worthless debate an don't make me pull mah gat!"

[Samnium]

"Yo Just LOL.

ah don' know what you know o' Italian Middle Ages history... prob'ly nuttin'.

Minerva has already debunked yo' lies, ah wouldn't engage in uh worthless debate an don't make me pull mah gat!"

Continue your non-sense allegations, you're quoting Britannica, and I can quote Pierre Milza, a scholar that wrote dozens of books and was considered as one of the few experts about Italian history :).

I wouldn't do so because I'm not a stupid guy that make quotes war.

Your behavior shows only that you're interested by making provocative and ridiculous claims.

[MinervaItalica]

Yes yes let's return on topic now.

Britannica is biased.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Continue your non-sense allegations, you're quoting Britannica, and I can quote Pierre Milza, a scholar specialist of italian history :).

I wouldn't do so because I'm not a stupid guy that make quotes war.

Your behavior shows only that you're interested by making provocative and ridiculous claims.

What non-sense? You approach me with your youthful arrogance saying that I don't know anything and I am just backing my claims with evidence. The source being Encyclopedia Brittannica doesn't really matter because you just sunk yourself in your own embarrassment and arrogance after being disproved and would have disclaimed any other source I would have provided anyway.

What is even funnier is that you keep on claiming that you are not stupid...which is something that only stupid people do because they can never acknowledge when they are wrong or at fault.

[Cristiano viejo]

Genoa puppet state of Spain? What kind of history did you study? :rolleyes:
Rep of Genoa was independent from around 11th century to the end of 18th century. Occupied perhaps but never a "puppet state" lol

Being independent does not mean you can not be a puppet. In fact puppet states always are independent.
Genova was a puppet of Spain during more than one century. How do you think Spain used the Spanish Road to send Spanish soldiers to Netherlands? Yes, through Genova

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Camino_Espa%C3%B1ol.PNG

And who do you think saved Genova in 1625, the so called Annus Mirabilis for Spain, when France and Savoy attacked it? Yes, Spain.

This is the famous picture in the Museo del Prado about this event, "Socorro a Génova por el marqués de Santa Cruz"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/El_socorro_de_G%C3%A9nova_por_el_II_marqu%C3%A9s_d e_Santa_Cruz_%28Antonio_de_Pereda%29.jpg/1024px-El_socorro_de_G%C3%A9nova_por_el_II_marqu%C3%A9s_d e_Santa_Cruz_%28Antonio_de_Pereda%29.jpg

And why do you think some army generals as for example Ambrosio Spinola served to Spain?


In the 16th century the Italian Republic of Genoa was in practical terms a protected state of the Spanish Empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrogio_Spinola,_1st_Marquess_of_Los_Balbases

Also, you, as Italian, should know the history of your own country to know Spain crossed and fought all North Italy (Piamonte, Lombardia, Liguria) involved in a lot of wars.




I also share this trauma.Oh yes, I called you pollack a pair of times, such monster :lol:
In the other hand you have talked shit about me to others users quite more times.

You are probably one of the most irrelevant users in TA for me. I doubt the amount of conversations involving both of us reaches the fingers of a hand.

[Gota_type_]

I lived in Portugal for the first 3 years of my life then moved to the US. No shit, obviously you live closer to Portugal because I live in NY now. And yeah. I am 100% Portuguese- feel free to check my DNA testing.

Our language isn't thanks to you... it is thanks to Latin (via Roman Empire) and Galicia which is more autonomous with Portugal genetically and in history than with Spain, my friend.

I am from Galicia, you retard. And Galicia is Spain. The only that question this are foreigners ignorants (like you) or extreme-leftists/communists/anarchists like the ones that support Independence in all the regions of Spain (yes, even in Andalucía). Galicia is majoritary center-right, conservative, and most of us are proud to be Galicians and Spaniards, as our History can also tell. And nothing will change this.

[Sarmatian]

Never.

[Malagueña]

I am from Galicia, you retard. And Galicia is Spain. The only that question this are foreigners ignorants (like you) or extreme-leftists/communists/anarchists like the ones that support Independence in all the regions of Spain (yes, even in Andalucía). Galicia is majoritary center-right, conservative, and most of us are proud to be Galicians and Spaniards, as our History can also tell. And nothing will change this.

It doesn't matter how nationalist or independentist you are, the social context of every region must be always considered, and in the case of Galicia it's true that most of the population is conservative center-right. I mean, look at their parliament, Popular Party has had absolute majority for decades :noidea:

[Tauromachos]

Never.

:thumb001:

[Malagueña]

I am from Galicia, you retard. And Galicia is Spain. The only that question this are foreigners ignorants (like you) or extreme-leftists/communists/anarchists like the ones that support Independence in all the regions of Spain (yes, even in Andalucía). Galicia is majoritary center-right, conservative, and most of us are proud to be Galicians and Spaniards, as our History can also tell. And nothing will change this.

It doesn't matter how nationalist or independentist you are, the social context of every region must be always considered, and in the case of Galicia it's true that most of the population is conservative center-right. I mean, look at their parliament, Popular Party has had absolute majority for decades :noidea:

[Gota_type_]

It doesn't matter how nationalist or independentist you are, the social context of every region must be always considered, and in the case of Galicia it's true that most of the population is conservative center-right. I mean, look at their parliament, Popular Party has had absolute majority for decades :noidea:

Lo sé. Lo q me jode es los extranjeros (como ese portugués o como muchos ingleses) que quieren azuzar y vender una idea de que porque tenemos un idioma propio ya necesariamente tengamos que ser otra cosa diferente y, por tanto, un país. En Italia tienen 15 lenguajes o dialectos. En Francia otros 10. En España tenemos 4-5 y, sin embargo, es contra nosotros contra los que siempre quieren ir para así desestabilizarnos más, tratando de vender internacionalmente de que los vascos y catalanes (y en algunos casos nos meten a los gallegos) son países, cuando es una falacia histórica y además no lo quiere ni la mayoría de los vascos ni una parte muy importante de los catalanes ni la práctica totalidad de los gallegos. Hasta en Andalucía tenéis a los retrasados que quieren la independencia o volver a ser AlAndalus (como los miserables esos que portan la bandera de Marruecos en la Toma de Granada). Chusma de extrema izquierda la hay en toda España.

[Malagueña]

Lo sé. Lo q me jode es los extranjeros (como ese portugués o como muchos ingleses) que quieren azuzar y vender una idea de que porque tenemos un idioma propio ya necesariamente tengamos que ser otra cosa diferente y, por tanto, un país. En Italia tienen 15 lenguajes o dialectos. En Francia otros 10. En España tenemos 4-5 y, sin embargo, es contra nosotros contra los que siempre quieren ir para así desestabilizarnos más, tratando de vender internacionalmente de que los vascos y catalanes (y en algunos casos nos meten a los gallegos) son países, cuando es una falacia histórica y además no lo quiere ni la mayoría de los vascos ni una parte muy importante de los catalanes ni la práctica totalidad de los gallegos. Hasta en Andalucía tenéis a los retrasados que quieren la independencia o volver a ser AlAndalus (como los miserables esos que portan la bandera de Marruecos en la Toma de Granada). Chusma de extrema izquierda la hay en toda España.

Ya, los andalucistas que se creen que son Mozárabes y en verdad son hijos de sorianos y burgaleses :rotfl: el otro día hablaba de este tema en otro post con Gaditanian; La mayoría son muy trasnochados, aunque comparto totalmente el sentimiento andaluz y la necesidad de reivindicarlo tampoco se puede negar la historia, y una parte del movimiento si que da un poquito de vergüenza ajena :picard1:
Y mira que yo soy de izquierda eh, una cosa no quita la otra. Es cuestión de sentido común.
Respecto a los otros países no sé como es la situación lingüistica de Italia, osea, me consta que tienen mucha variedad pero no sé hasta que nivel se hablan y se entienden mutuamente los idiomas ni como estan institucionalizados, así que no puedo opinar mucho sobre eso.

Ah, y otra cosa a tener en cuenta es que el movimiento nacionalista no siempre es de izquierda, ¿¿¡¡ acaso el EAJ-PNV y la Convergència/PDeCat/Comosellameahora no son tu típico Partido medio-nacionalista Liberal-en-lo-economico-Conservador-en-lo-social que hay en toda Europa y America??!! Me repatea cuando la gente solo considera al Trifachito como Derecha al hablar sobre X suceso o el Congreso/Senado. Un poco de consciencia por favor... :comp26:

[Gota_type_]

Ya, los andalucistas que se creen que son Mozárabes y en verdad son hijos de sorianos y burgaleses :rotfl: el otro día hablaba de este tema en otro post con Gaditanian; La mayoría son muy trasnochados, aunque comparto totalmente el sentimiento andaluz y la necesidad de reivindicarlo tampoco se puede negar la historia, y una parte del movimiento si que da un poquito de vergüenza ajena :picard1:
Y mira que yo soy de izquierda eh, una cosa no quita la otra. Es cuestión de sentido común.
Respecto a los otros países no sé como es la situación lingüistica de Italia, osea, me consta que tienen mucha variedad pero no sé hasta que nivel se hablan y se entienden mutuamente los idiomas ni como estan institucionalizados, así que no puedo opinar mucho sobre eso.

Ah, y otra cosa a tener en cuenta es que el movimiento nacionalista no siempre es de izquierda, ¿¿¡¡ acaso el EAJ-PNV y la Convergència/PDeCat/Comosellameahora no son tu típico Partido medio-nacionalista Liberal-en-lo-economico-Conservador-en-lo-social que hay en toda Europa y America??!! Me repatea cuando la gente solo considera al Trifachito como Derecha al hablar sobre X suceso o el Congreso/Senado. Un poco de consciencia por favor... :comp26:

Acabo d ver que pones "Left-Leaning Anarchist". Espero que no seas estilo podemita y semejante. Claro que hay movimientos de centro-derecha nacionalista, pero es que surgieron como movimientos autonomistas, regionalistas. El PNV nunca fue independentista, hasta hace relativamente poco. Pero al margen de PVasco y Cataluña no hay ningún otro movimiento conservador que busque la independecia o algo parecido, y sin embargo en toda España hay movimientos de ultraizquierda que lo quieren.

Y lo de izquierda y derecha en el fondo es una estupidez porque el que yo defienda a los trabajadores del campo u obreros españoles de la llegada de inmigrantes (mano de obra barata) me convertiría, según los cánones, en un rojo consumado, y siempre he defendido al trabajador español frente a los inmigrantes, cosa que no ha hecho NADIE ni de la izquierda ni la supuesta derecha en España. Es más los sindicatos de izquierdas han apoyado masivamente la inmigración. Así q lo de izquierda y derecha es relativo, pero es así como se llaman entre ellos los políticos.

[AdrianV]

If so, what´s the funniest thing he has told to you?

No

[AdrianV]

If so, what´s the funniest thing he has told to you?

No

[MinervaItalica]

Being independent does not mean you can not be a puppet. In fact puppet states always are independent.
Genova was a puppet of Spain during more than one century. How do you think Spain used the Spanish Road to send Spanish soldiers to Netherlands? Yes, through Genova

That Genoa has been ALLIED with Spain during history is well know. Being a puppet state is a different thing. The central power in Genoa has always been in the hands of the Doge except for a short period when it was military controlled by the French.

Go on. Post a reliable source that can prove Genoa being a "puppet state".


And why do you think some army generals as for example Ambrosio Spinola served to Spain?

Yes also Ambrogio Boccanegra. We all know that many of the great generals of Spain (and not only) were Italians... tell me something i don't know :rolleyes:



And who do you think saved Genova in 1625, the so called Annus Mirabilis for Spain, when France and Savoy attacked it? Yes, Spain.

Savoy kicked France and Spain asses when the former tried to invade Piedmont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Turin

Also this pretty funny quote by Eugene of Savoy when Spain was allied with Savoy against France. :D


When Eugene's Imperial troops finally arrived in Piedmont little could be achieved due to Spanish hesitancy and reluctance: in Eugene's words: " … they want to do absolutely nothing."[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Staffarda

[Malagueña]

Acabo d ver que pones "Left-Leaning Anarchist". Espero que no seas estilo podemita y semejante. Claro que hay movimientos de centro-derecha nacionalista, pero es que surgieron como movimientos autonomistas, regionalistas. El PNV nunca fue independentista, hasta hace relativamente poco. Pero al margen de PVasco y Cataluña no hay ningún otro movimiento conservador que busque la independecia o algo parecido, y sin embargo en toda España hay movimientos de ultraizquierda que lo quieren.

Y lo de izquierda y derecha en el fondo es una estupidez porque el que yo defienda a los trabajadores del campo u obreros españoles de la llegada de inmigrantes (mano de obra barata) me convertiría, según los cánones, en un rojo consumado, y siempre he defendido al trabajador español frente a los inmigrantes, cosa que no ha hecho NADIE ni de la izquierda ni la supuesta derecha en España. Es más los sindicatos de izquierdas han apoyado masivamente la inmigración. Así q lo de izquierda y derecha es relativo, pero es así como se llaman entre ellos los políticos.

Los nacionalismos si es cierto que la gran mayoría en España son de izquierda, la verdad que no sé por qué, aunque también hay algunas excepciones como los del movimiento Gallaecia o como se llamase, y los nazis catalanes (los de verdad) que siempre han existido, como PxC, aunque sí, por lo general están mucho más descentralizados y no tan organizados como sus congéneres rojos, que vienen en todos los colores ¿Sabías que hay hasta nacionalistas Asturianos? XD
A ver, el PNV no le interesa la independencia, ellos les aprueban los presupuestos al gobierno central de turno a cambio de impuestos bajos y subvenciones y de repente ya no hablan de independencia, ¿por qué será? Se les ve el plumero...
Los que si que hablan más de la nación vasca y la independencia son Bildu, pero acarrean que uno de los sectores que funda la coalición (Sortu) sea heredero del heredero del heredero del heredero de la Batasuna de los años 80 ligada íntimamente con ETA, y hay mucha gente que obviamente no olvida, aunque ya estén obviamente desvinculados de cualquier historia remotamente parecida.
Respecto a lo de derecha e izquierda, realmente es complejo. Hace mucho que dejé de creer en ella, al menos en los términos en los que socialmente se la representa, porque dan una idea de la política que es totalmente errónea. Los nazbols/strasseristas y algunos anarquistas rompen ese molde. El espectro político se define mejor como un cuadrado, y si añadimos el aspecto cultural (progresismo-tradicionalismo), se forma algo parecido a un cubo.

Ah y por cierto, no, aunque coincida en algunas cosas con ellos no soy Podemita ni mucho menos, ya me jodería xD

[Cristiano viejo]

That Genoa has been ALLIED with Spain during history is well know. Being a puppet state is a different thing. The central power in Genoa has always been in the hands of the Doge except for a short period when it was military controlled by the French.

Go on. Post a reliable source that can prove Genoa being a "puppet state".

Sure,
https://foro.todoavante.es/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=8809
http://hispania.revistas.csic.es/index.php/hispania/article/download/152/157
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marchesato_di_Finale

El Marquesado de Finale, situado cerca de la frontera con Francia, y que en la historia que nos interesa sera controlado por el bando pro español en un momento dado.
El marquesado será vendido a Felipe II en 1598, por el ultimo marques, Sforza Andrea.
Bajo dominio español, Finale tendrá gran valor estratégico para la política hispánica, pues Finale era la puerta marítima del Estado de Milán, aparte de Finale, se crearon varios enclaves portuarios en el Marquesado como el de Varigotti.

El fuerte de Castelfranco en Finale, era ya antes de la compra del Marquesado, una posición de las tropas españolas desde 1571, tomado cuando el marqués Alfonso II Caretto intento vender el marquesado a Francia. El castillo fue mandado entre otros por Antonio de Olivera o Juan Manrique de Lara.
Bajo la protección española el marquesado será administrado por un "Alcaide all'uso di Spagna". Aunque el gobierno del Marquesado dependerá del gobernador/Capitan General del Estado de Milán.

La guarnición solía oscilar sobre unos 2.000 hombres. Su presencia estímulo las actividades comerciales de Finale, así como la de cultura.
Como curiosidad en Finale había un buena imprenta de libros, la única con la de Genova.
En Finale se imprimían cartas de juego, se conoce que para las tropas en tránsito.

También bajo la protección de España, Finale vivirá un buen auge económico, cultural y artístico. Las grandes familias genovesas, que se refugiaron el Finale, como ya leeréis mas adelante, pudieron comerciar en todo el ámbito marítimo español, de Mesina a las Islas Canarias.

Miles de soldados que llegaban desde Nápoles y Barcelona, con destino a Milán para encaminarse hacia Flandes y Alemania, o a su regreso de esos teatros de operaciones embarcaban o desembarcaron en Finale.

España se mantuvo en el marquesado hasta 1707 cuando el Milanesado fue conquistado por Eugenio de Saboya al mando de las tropas imperiales de los Habsburgo austríacos en el curso la Guerra de Sucesión Española.

En 1523 es enviado a Génova Lope de Soria, el primero de una larga serie de españoles que harían de la embajada de Génova uno de los núcleos de la diplomacia española en Italia.

Tras Pavía, victoria española que en parte tuvo el apoyo económico de los banqueros ligures, los genoveses comprueban cual es el poder de España y se acercan a el. Y Lope de Soria en uno de sus primeros informes a Carlos V, tras Pavia, nos dice que los "genoveses tienen tantos bienes en los reinos hispanos que no osarían hacer ningún feo a España pues se les podría castigar atentando contra esos bienes, creándoles muchos prejuicios, aunque lo contrario también se podría dar, aunque en menor medida".

El poder de chantaje de España contra Genova era ya desde el inicio palpable.

También informa que no haría falta llegar a ese extremo, respondiendo por la fidelidad de los genoveses hacia España, fidelidad interesada en no pocos genoveses, cierto, pero fidelidad al cabo.

Soria informo que tener a Génova como aliada era sumamente importante, tanto fue así que cuando Génova cayó en manos francesas entre 1527 y 1528, la falta de créditos para apoyar la acción española en Italia se hizo notar, Soria otra vez, informo que conseguir dinero en Italia sin la ayuda de los banqueros de Génova era "el mayor trabajo del mundo", y aconsejaba al emperador en septiembre de 1527 la liberación de Génova como uno de los objetivos más importantes:
«porque es la puerta y llave de Italia, y por donde se da forma de aver dineros y avisos y fuerças de armada de mar».

Su ubicación estratégica, sus reservas financieras, su disposición para emplearlas en los mercados de cambio y no menos importante su capacidad de construir y armar galeras para ponerlas al servicio de otros, hacían de Génova un aliado a tener en cuenta, y en 1528, Carlos I necesita reforzar su presencia en el Mediterráneo.

ETC ETC ETC ETC

L'investitura di Filippo III fu concessa solo nel 1619, quella di Filippo IV nel 1639 e non precisata quella di Carlo II. Sotto i re spagnoli il marchesato era amministrato da un "Alcaide all'uso di Spagna". L'Alcaide (dall'arabo al caìd, comandante di castello) era un ufficiale incaricato direttamente dal re di comandare una fortezza di proprietà della corona spagnola. In pratica, tuttavia l'amministrazione del marchesato era controllata da quella milanese, in quanto il governatore di Milano svolgeva anche la funzione di capitano generale del re cattolico in Italia. Sotto il dominio spagnolo Finale ebbe un periodo di notevole sviluppo economico, culturale e artistico, almeno in confronto alle misere condizioni di altri stati italiani.

Protetti dalla bandiera spagnola e da segrete collaborazioni commerciali con influenti famiglie genovesi, ben contente di aggirare il rapace fisco dello scalo genovese, i finalesi commerciarono in tutti mari "spagnoli" da Messina alle Canarie.

Soprattutto dopo il 1635 molte decine di migliaia di soldati asburgici provenienti da Napoli o da Barcellona e diretti a Milano, per proseguire per il teatro di guerra nelle Fiandre e in Germania (o viceversa) sbarcarono (o s'imbarcarono) a Finale. Una guarnigione di circa 2000 soldati era stanziata nelle poderose fortificazioni costruite negli anni 1640-1645. Questa situazione, e i servizi ad essa connessi, stimolarono lo sviluppo di attività commerciali ed imprenditoriali molto diversificate. La presenza delle truppe spagnole stimolò anche la produzione ed esportazione di carte da gioco. Sul fronte culturale Finale fu l'unica città ligure, a parte Genova, in cui venissero stampati libri.


Yes also Ambrogio Boccanegra. We all know that many of the great generals of Spain (and not only) were Italians... tell me something i don't know :rolleyes:

Bocanegra is pretty older, nothing to do with Genova being a puppet of Spain during the XVI and XVII centuries.


Savoy kicked France and Spain asses when the former tried to invade Piedmont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Turin
No Spaniards involved in that siege.


Also this pretty funny quote by Eugene of Savoy when Spain was allied with Savoy against France. :D



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Staffarda
Dont blame Spaniards for the well-known Italian militar incompetence.

[mitalit]

Los nacionalismos si es cierto que la gran mayoría en España son de izquierda, la verdad que no sé por qué, aunque también hay algunas excepciones como los del movimiento Gallaecia o como se llamase, y los nazis catalanes (los de verdad) que siempre han existido, como PxC, aunque sí, por lo general están mucho más descentralizados y no tan organizados como sus congéneres rojos, que vienen en todos los colores ¿Sabías que hay hasta nacionalistas Asturianos? XD
A ver, el PNV no le interesa la independencia, ellos les aprueban los presupuestos al gobierno central de turno a cambio de impuestos bajos y subvenciones y de repente ya no hablan de independencia, ¿por qué será? Se les ve el plumero...
Los que si que hablan más de la nación vasca y la independencia son Bildu, pero acarrean que uno de los sectores que funda la coalición (Sortu) sea heredero del heredero del heredero del heredero de la Batasuna de los años 80 ligada íntimamente con ETA, y hay mucha gente que obviamente no olvida, aunque ya estén obviamente desvinculados de cualquier historia remotamente parecida.
Respecto a lo de derecha e izquierda, realmente es complejo. Hace mucho que dejé de creer en ella, al menos en los términos en los que socialmente se la representa, porque dan una idea de la política que es totalmente errónea. Los nazbols/strasseristas y algunos anarquistas rompen ese molde. El espectro político se define mejor como un cuadrado, y si añadimos el aspecto cultural (progresismo-tradicionalismo), se forma algo parecido a un cubo.

Ah y por cierto, no, aunque coincida en algunas cosas con ellos no soy Podemita ni mucho menos, ya me jodería xD

Con 16 años que consideras tu mucho tiempo?

[InfamousAngel99]

If he has, I don't remember. I don't remember silly insults from strangers online.

[MinervaItalica]

Bocanegra is pretty older, nothing to do with Genova being a puppet of Spain during the XVI and XVII centuries.

You right, there wasn't Spain back then but still another great general that fought for an Iberian state worthy of mention.


No Spaniards involved in that siege.

Yes there were.


Dont blame Spaniards for the well-known Italian militar incompetence.

It's not me but Eugene of Savoy, a great military leader who had to deal with a lame ally such as Spain. :)

[Cristiano viejo]

If he has, I don't remember. I don't remember silly insults from strangers online.
This is the First time i talk with You, so imagine :rolleyes:


You right, there wasn't Spain back then but still another great general that fought for an Iberian state worthy of mention.


Yes there were.



It's not me but Eugene of Savoy, a great military leader who had to deal with a lame ally such as Spain. :)

Bocanegra Was a very great almirant, i don't have Problems to claim this. He Was a good vassal of Castilla and i aprecciate him.

No, according your own link there were not spaniards involved in That siete of Turín. Review how the siege :rolleyes:

Lame? Lol, in these time spaniards rules more than half of Italy, while italians were rules by every one. Who is the lame??

[Cristiano viejo]

If he has, I don't remember. I don't remember silly insults from strangers online.
This is the First time i talk with You, so imagine :rolleyes:


You right, there wasn't Spain back then but still another great general that fought for an Iberian state worthy of mention.


Yes there were.



It's not me but Eugene of Savoy, a great military leader who had to deal with a lame ally such as Spain. :)

Bocanegra Was a very great almirant, i don't have Problems to claim this. He Was a good vassal of Castilla and i aprecciate him.

No, according your own link there were not spaniards involved in That siege of Turín. Review how the siege developed :rolleyes:

Lame? Lol, in these time spaniards ruled more than half of Italy, while italians were ruled by every one. Who is the lame??

[Daco Celtic]

I'd hire him to mow my law, trim my hedges, make tacos at a restaurant. Things he knows best.

[Cernunnos]

Yes, I just don't remember. Probably something stupid because of Portugal x Spain. A classic.

[MinervaItalica]

Lame? Lol, in these time spaniards ruled more than half of Italy, while italians were ruled by every one. Who is the lame??

Yes you (with the help of the HRE) had the luck to emerge victorious (in part thx to Italian generals siding with Spain) during the Italian Wars. Italian states did already enough kicking and weaken France, it was to much for them to resist longer especially against two European Powers.

[Pater Patota]

31.499 posts and he’s a member of TA since 2012 without any ban, this guy is legit as hell.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes you (with the help of the HRE) had the luck to emerge victorious (in part thx to Italian generals siding with Spain) during the Italian Wars. Italian states did already enough kicking and weaken France, it was to much for them to resist longer especially against two European Powers.
Leaving aside that no, Spain did not need HRE or Italian generals to conquer and dominate Italy, since the early 1300s in Sicily with the Almogavars, then Campania and rest of south Italy with the Great Captain, passing for the duchy of Milan with Fernando de Ávalos, OK, FROM NOW ON, WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE ROMAN EMPIRE I WILL SAY ROMANS ACHIEVED WHAT THEY ACHIEVED THANKS LOCAL ALLIANCES, SOLDIERS, GENERALS AND EVEN EMPERORS :rolleyes:

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

If CV has insulted you, you probably deserved it

Try and be more Castillian, or at least bow down to superior Castillan culture, and you will not be abused, you imbeciles :)

[Marinus]

I get extra points for being half Spanish, and he has been friendly to me ever since I joined up.

[MinervaItalica]

Leaving aside that no, Spain did not need HRE or Italian generals to conquer and dominate Italy, since the early 1300s in Sicily with the Almogavars, then Campania and rest of south Italy with the Great Captain, passing for the duchy of Milan with Fernando de Ávalos, OK, FROM NOW ON, WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE ROMAN EMPIRE I WILL SAY ROMANS ACHIEVED WHAT THEY ACHIEVED THANKS LOCAL ALLIANCES, SOLDIERS, GENERALS AND EVEN EMPERORS :rolleyes:

1300 Sicily basically Sicilians kicked the Anjou during the Vespers and Aragoneses (requested by rebels) got the crown from the Pope for their help. In any case the noble houses that ruled Sicily and Naples before the Italian Wars were branches of Iberian houses who ruled independently the Southern Italian kingdoms, nothing to do with unified Spain we are talking about (with Habsburg or Bourbons, not native Spanish btw). In 1300 you were still fighting moors.

Also


In the early 15th century the de facto capital was Valencia, until Alfonso V came to the throne. During the 15-16th century the Crown's de facto capital was Naples: after Alfonso V of Aragon, also Ferdinand II of Aragon settled the capital in Naples. Alfonso, in particular, wanted to transform Naples into a real Mediterranean capital, lavishing also huge sums to embellish it further.[35]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Aragon#Capital

[Cristiano viejo]

1300 Sicily basically Sicilians kicked the Anjou during the Vespers and Aragoneses (requested by rebels) got the crown from the Pope for their help. In any case the noble houses that ruled Sicily and Naples before the Italian Wars were branches of Iberian houses who ruled independently the Southern Italian kingdoms, nothing to do with unified Spain we are talking about (with Habsburg or Bourbons, not native Spanish btw). In 1300 you were still fighting moors.
Noble houses did not rule Sicily and Naples but Spanish kings or viceroys, sorry.
My favorite :) the Great Duke of Osuna https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_T%C3%A9llez-Gir%C3%B3n_y_Velasco th

That motherfucker put order on undisciplined and corrupt Sicilians and Neapolitans, fucked ottomans very hard protecting the Italian territories, and helped Croatian Uscoques from Segnia against venetians, to who defeated militarily although not politically, and to greek Maniots against ottomans, successfully too :D

[Dr_Maul]

I have not

[MinervaItalica]

Your history knowledge is terrible let alone the Italian one, this is not a new thing.


Noble houses did not rule Sicily and Naples but Spanish kings or viceroys, sorry.
My favorite :) the Great Duke of Osuna https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_T%C3%A9llez-Gir%C3%B3n_y_Velasco th

What kind of weed do you smoke, Rodrigo?

The house of Barcelona and Trastamara? Never heard about those? They had different branches. Strange because are the only worthy of notice native Iberians houses unlike Habsburgs and Bourbons that created the Spanish Empire.


Cadet branches of the dynasty had also ruled Ausona intermittently from 878 until 1111, Provence from 1112 to 1245, and Sicily from 1282 to 1409.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Barcelona

Also, If you check carefully the list of viceroys you'll notice that there are also Italians so they weren't always Spaniards.


That motherfucker put order on undisciplined and corrupt Sicilians and Neapolitans, fucked ottomans very hard protecting the Italian territories, and helped Croatian Uscoques from Segnia against venetians, to who defeated militarily although not politically, and to greek Maniots against ottomans, successfully too :D

No wonder Spanish rulers preferred the far more richer and populated Southern Italian cities than Iberian ones... :laugh:

Stop insulting (the majority) good Southern Italians people with your blatant falsities. Its most likely due to centuries of feudalistic Spanish rule if (a minority) Sicilians and Neapolitans are so "corrupted" considering how much Spain sucked money from those Kingdoms for its own (failure) war in America... :laugh:

You protected nothing, Italian states fought much more against Ottomans during history than Spain. Go pick an history book, Rodrigo. Venice is the only one that protected the Italian peninsula albeit losing a lot of colonies.

But Italian states fought in Iberia against Moors. :thumb001:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1113%E2%80%931115_Balearic_Islands_expedition

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglie_di_Almeria_e_Tortosa

[Cristiano viejo]

Your history knowledge is terrible let alone the Italian one, this is not a new thing.



What kind of weed do you smoke, Rodrigo?

The house of Barcelona and Trastamara? Never heard about those? They had different branches. Strange because are the only worthy of notice native Iberians houses unlike Habsburgs and Bourbons that created the Spanish Empire.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Barcelona

Also, If you check carefully the list of viceroys you'll notice that there are also Italians so they weren't always Spaniards.



No wonder Spanish rulers preferred the far more richer and populated Southern Italian cities than Iberian ones... :laugh:

Stop insulting (the majority) good Southern Italians people with your blatant falsities. Its most likely due to centuries of feudalistic Spanish rule if (a minority) Sicilians and Neapolitans are so "corrupted" considering how much Spain sucked money from those Kingdoms for its own (failure) war in America... :laugh:

You protected nothing, Italian states fought much more against Ottomans during history than Spain. Go pick an history book, Rodrigo.

But Italian states fought in Iberia against Moors. :thumb001:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1113%E2%80%931115_Balearic_Islands_expedition

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglie_di_Almeria_e_Tortosa

I will not taste my time more with ignorants like you. It is very well documented, for your disgrace. You are free to check what I have posted. Genova being a super puppet state of Spain, the Great Duke of Osuna put order in the archi corrupts Sicilia and Naples and protecting Italy from Ottomans, beating Venetians, etc etc.

Arrivederci.

[MinervaItalica]

I will not taste my time more with ignorants like you. You are free to check what I have posted. Genova being a super puppet state of Spain, the Great Duke of Osuna put order in the archi corrupts Sicilia and Naples and protecting Italy from Ottomans, beating Venetians, etc etc.

Arrivederci.

Yes yes :blah::blah:

I know you want to flee because you don't have proper arguments to support your "theories". :rolleyes:
It always ends like this.

Hasta la vista. Until next time Rodrigo.

[Kamal900]

Yes.

You wish, Berber camelfucker :laugh:

It would seem that Christiano has some sort of bestiality fetish towards Camels which I would think that a Black Camel(Mujaheem breed of Saudi Arabia) plunged it's thick cock up Christiano's anus.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7318/11391078025_4183b485ef_b.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes.


It would seem that Christiano has some sort of bestiality fetish towards Camels which I would think that a Black Camel(Mujaheem breed of Saudi Arabia) plunged it's thick cock up Christiano's anus.

It is you Arabs who have fetish for camels since it is your national animal

Take fetish :lol:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LcTz0dkKeS8/S4LycSHMNTI/AAAAAAAAANU/4svx8odAJ8A/s320/fuck+mahoma.bmp

[Kamal900]

It is you Arabs who have fetish for camels since it is your national animal

Take fetish :lol:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LcTz0dkKeS8/S4LycSHMNTI/AAAAAAAAANU/4svx8odAJ8A/s320/fuck+mahoma.bmp

Then you guys love to fuck with cattle because the bull is your national symbol..what a genius.

[Tommie]

No, neither did I ever insult or attack him. But then again, we don't really interact with each other too much.

[MinervaItalica]

I will not taste my time more with ignorants like you. It is very well documented, for your disgrace. You are free to check what I have posted. Genova being a super puppet state of Spain, the Great Duke of Osuna put order in the archi corrupts Sicilia and Naples and protecting Italy from Ottomans, beating Venetians, etc etc.

Arrivederci.

Btw it is pretty funny that you talk about corrupted Sicilians and Neapolitans when the viceroy you cited was arrested because illegal activities...


A few days after Philip III's death, in 1621, in a "purge" of the ministers of the new and very young king against Lerma's family and friends, Osuna was arrested by a decision of the State Council – the highest political and administrative body of the Spanish Monarchy – on a large and wide-ranging array of accusations (corruption, but also impiety, sexual misconduct, etc.).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_T%C3%A9llez-Gir%C3%B3n,_3rd_Duke_of_Osuna

:rotfl::lmao

[Cristiano viejo]

Btw it is pretty funny that you talk about corrupted Sicilians and Neapolitans when the viceroy you cited was arrested because illegal activities...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_T%C3%A9llez-Gir%C3%B3n,_3rd_Duke_of_Osuna

:rotfl::lmao
He was accused falsely to remove him.

[Cristiano viejo]

Then you guys love to fuck with cattle because the bull is your national symbol..what a genius.

how this works?? You accused me of having fetish with camels, when it is you who love that mena animal :)

[Kamal900]

how this works?? You accused me of having fetish with camels, when it is you who love that mena animal :)

The fact that you're obsessed with camel fucking by accusing us in such things does give me insight about your own stupidity and denial of your own dark secrets on these things.

[Tauromachos]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LcTz0dkKeS8/S4LycSHMNTI/AAAAAAAAANU/4svx8odAJ8A/s320/fuck+mahoma.bmp

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kamal900]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LcTz0dkKeS8/S4LycSHMNTI/AAAAAAAAANU/4svx8odAJ8A/s320/fuck+mahoma.bmp

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The idiot thinks that I'm a Muslim even though I'm not.

[Tauromachos]

The idiot thinks that I'm a Muslim even though I'm not.


Then you guys love to fuck with cattle because the bull is your national symbol..what a genius.
:thumb001:

[happycow]

Never. He's funny though.

[Cristiano viejo]

The fact that you're obsessed with camel fucking by accusing us in such things does give me insight about your own stupidity and denial of your own dark secrets on these things.
Not my fault that you menas have fame of camelfucker a and goatfuckers :thumb001:


The idiot thinks that I'm a Muslim even though I'm not.you are the idiot since I did not call you Muslim in any moment. Relating camels with you it has nothing to do with religion but with race, but you are so mena that even did not notice this.

[Kamal900]

Not my fault that you menas have fame of camelfucker a and goatfuckers :thumb001:

you are the idiot since I did not call you Muslim in any moment. Relating camels with you it has nothing to do with religion but with race, but you are so mena that even did not notice this.

No, but that's the prime stupidity on your behalf, rofl. And I suppose that you Spaniards and your abuse towards cattle, especially bulls, is okay to you even though it's your people's national symbol?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsQhI4BVP9w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7E34TK1Ng

Hypocrisy much? The fact that you posted a picture of a camel with the symbol of Islam on it does tell me otherwise really. Arab Christians for example aren't Muslims. Even the lowest of Americans know these things which I believe why you Euro-peons are so submissive to the US. Even the party that you voted, Vox, kiss the feet of both the US and Israel, rofl.

[Rocinante]

No, but that's the prime stupidity on your behalf, rofl. And I suppose that you Spaniards and your abuse towards cattle, especially bulls, is okay to you even though it's your people's national symbol?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsQhI4BVP9w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7E34TK1Ng

Hypocrisy much? The fact that you posted a picture of a camel with the symbol of Islam on it does tell me otherwise really. Arab Christians for example aren't Muslims. Even the lowest of Americans know these things which I believe why you Euro-peons are so submissive to the US. Even the party that you voted, Vox, kiss the feet of both the US and Israel, rofl.

I have to admit that these things make me sad, it saddens me a lot, but people here for the most part do not agree, I know many people from both sides (left and right) who do not agree with this practice.

[Kamal900]

I have to admit that these things make me sad, it saddens me a lot, but people here for the most part do not agree, I know many people from both sides (left and right) who do not agree with this practice.

I know, but Christiano stated many times before that he support these events as part of the Spanish cultural heritage and so on which is why I wanted to expose his hypocritical ass here.

[Rocinante]

I know, but Christiano stated many times before that he support these events as part of the Spanish cultural heritage and so on which is why I wanted to expose his hypocritical ass here.

I asked him why he still supports that practice, and seems to be that anti-bullfighters is a "left symbol" and the oposite, is from the rights. This is not always the case, i can vote in Spain and i had always voted for a right wing party, and like many other voters of the right-wing, i am agaisn't this. I know i may not have voice to vote or decide if this practice should be still on going, but bulls neither have a voice.

This might get him mad, but i had to say this.

[Mingle]

No. I've even argued with him about North African DNA in Iberians once or twice before but he didn't insult me for it. He's a pretty chill user. Even when I see him insulting other people, it just seems like banter and nothing serious.

[Dandelion]

I believe he regards Belgians as a lost colony, but I'm very sure he thinks of us as more highly than he does former colonial subjects overseas.

[Thambi]

No. I've even argued with him about North African DNA in Iberians once or twice before but he didn't insult me for it. He's a pretty chill user. Even when I see him insulting other people, it just seems like banter and nothing serious.

bro you're back. nice to see you on here again.

[Thambi]

not much of an issue with him personally. I do get annoyed sometimes when he insults subcontinental people, but so do many users on this site. Its nothing new i guess. but personally no he never said anything to me.

[tekken999]

I have not sadly but it would actually be an honor to be insulted by him

[Cristiano viejo]

I asked him why he still supports that practice, and seems to be that anti-bullfighters is a "left symbol" and the oposite, is from the rights. This is not always the case, i can vote in Spain and i had always voted for a right wing party, and like many other voters of the right-wing, i am agaisn't this. I know i may not have voice to vote or decide if this practice should be still on going, but bulls neither have a voice.

This might get him mad, but i had to say this.
It is so, lefties are against the fiesta, patriots are for.
And I am a patriot.

Mena boy, I don't fuck bulls as you do with your camels and goats, that is the difference :thumb001:

[Rocinante]

It is so, lefties are against the fiesta, patriots are for.
And I am a patriot.

I know that you are a patriot, so Santiago Abascal, who said to the nationalist right-wing venezuelan activist John Acquaviva, that inside the party there seems to be discrepances about the bullfight:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGT7uYQKfD4

This is not a left or a right thing, at least by me.

[Teutone]

I know that you are a patriot, so Santiago Abascal, who said to the nationalist right-wing venezuelan activist John Acquaviva, that inside the party there seems to be discrepances about the bullfight:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGT7uYQKfD4

This is not a left or a right thing, at least by me.

When traveling is allowed again, I will visit a bullfight and enjoy this honorful ancient spanish tradition.

Right after that I will pray a rosary for Francisco Franco.

[Gota_type_]

When traveling is allowed again, I will visit a bullfight and enjoy this honorful ancient spanish tradition.

Right after that I will pray a rosary for Francisco Franco.

If you do it, don´t forget to go to El Valle de los Caídos and El Escorial (near Madrid). The first is were Franco was buried until just 3 months ago that the socialist-communist scum decided to take him out of his grave. And the second one is were Spanish Empire was directed and were most of the post-1500 kings are buried:
https://carolineangusbaker.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/valle-caidos.jpg
https://www.somtoseeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/El-Escorial-101-Free-Things-to-do-in-Madrid.jpg

And if you prefer to go to the north, to Asturias, you could go to the Basilica de Covadonga, where Reconquista started with Don Pelayo:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7676/27980154716_56701903e7_b.jpg

[Teutone]

If you do it, don´t forget to go to El Valle de los Caídos and El Escorial (near Madrid). The first is were Franco was buried until just 3 months ago that the socialist-communist scum decided to take him out of his grave. And the second one is were Spanish Empire was directed and were most of the post-1500 kings are buried:
https://carolineangusbaker.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/valle-caidos.jpg
https://www.somtoseeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/El-Escorial-101-Free-Things-to-do-in-Madrid.jpg

And if you prefer to go to the north, to Asturias, you could go to the Basilica de Covadonga, where Reconquista started with Don Pelayo:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7676/27980154716_56701903e7_b.jpg

I hope Celtíbero Itálico and his Podemos antifa communists will not report me to the kgb.

[Gota_type_]

I hope Celtíbero Itálico and his Podemos antifa communists will not report me to the kgb.

Nah, the issue with him and gixajo is that they have shown their real picture (of their faces) here in the fórum, so I guess they can´t be so straight in their assertions. They can´t say "we want to kick out the moros" since "someone" is probably watching this fórum. I have read them and they are totally against moros (as 95% of native Spaniards). And I don´t really know their political ideas but I think they are far from communist scum. And Celtibero was born in Venezuela and had to come to Spain, so I guess he dislike communists quite hard.

[Rabbit Hole]

No. I've even argued with him about North African DNA in Iberians once or twice before but he didn't insult me for it. He's a pretty chill user. Even when I see him insulting other people, it just seems like banter and nothing serious.

Minimal nothing more than 2-3 percent tops.

[Rabbit Hole]

No, but that's the prime stupidity on your behalf, rofl. And I suppose that you Spaniards and your abuse towards cattle, especially bulls, is okay to you even though it's your people's national symbol?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsQhI4BVP9w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7E34TK1Ng

Hypocrisy much? The fact that you posted a picture of a camel with the symbol of Islam on it does tell me otherwise really. Arab Christians for example aren't Muslims. Even the lowest of Americans know these things which I believe why you Euro-peons are so submissive to the US. Even the party that you voted, Vox, kiss the feet of both the US and Israel, rofl.

No what's funnier is as A ''Arab Levantine Muslim'' I got a Greco-Roman/Iberian-Anatolian score on Ged k36 this is what's funny about it. I think the Spanish don't like the Muslims because of the Moors who were actually North African. I don't think the Moor admixture in Spanish or Portugese is relevent neither reflects in their dna and I don't think it's to do with the Moors, just migration out of Eurasia/West Asia.

[Tauromachos]

No, but that's the prime stupidity on your behalf, rofl. And I suppose that you Spaniards and your abuse towards cattle, especially bulls, is okay to you even though it's your people's national symbol?


Voila the first person in this thread who succeded in getting insulted by him:thumb001:

[Rocinante]

I hope Celtíbero Itálico and his Podemos antifa communists will not report me to the kgb.

You are a fool, i told you many times that i fought the fucking communist niggers in Venezuela and you still are touching my balls with the "lelfite" thing. I vote here in Spain boy, and i vote right wing, this has nothing to do with be agains't bullfighting, i don't run naked in Madrid asking to stop this tradition, i just don't like it.

Also, what a fool, instead of comming to this Eden of Architecture, Culture, Folklore and Cuisine, you are just interested in go to a bullfight event, is like going to Malaysia and instead of going to their beaches, yo go to what them eat pangolins, CUCK.


Nah, the issue with him and gixajo is that they have shown their real picture (of their faces) here in the fórum, so I guess they can´t be so straight in their assertions. They can´t say "we want to kick out the moros" since "someone" is probably watching this fórum. I have read them and they are totally against moros (as 95% of native Spaniards). And I don´t really know their political ideas but I think they are far from communist scum. And Celtibero was born in Venezuela and had to come to Spain, so I guess he dislike communists quite hard.

Thanks bro. :thumb001: That man thinks i'm a fucking podemite or socialist, what a fool.

[AlfonsoVIII]

It is so, lefties are against the fiesta, patriots are for.
And I am a patriot.

:picard2:
At least have a bit of your own judgment, if you support bullfighting it should be because you like them, and not because "patriots defend them".

[Rocinante]

:picard2:
At least have a bit of your own judgment, if you support bullfighting it should be because you like them, and not because "patriots defend them".

That's what i say, i know a lot of people here who refuse the bullfights and support a right-wing party, everyone of them are young of course.

[Avicii86]

He once called me a troll but I like most of the Spaniards on here. They are the only ones who said I could pass in Turkey.

[Teutone]

You are a fool, i told you many times that i fought the fucking communist niggers in Venezuela and you still are touching my balls with the "lelfite" thing. I vote here in Spain boy, and i vote right wing, this has nothing to do with be agains't bullfighting, i don't run naked in Madrid asking to stop this tradition, i just don't like it.

Also, what a fool, instead of comming to this Eden of Architecture, Culture, Folklore and Cuisine, you are just interested in go to a bullfight event, is like going to Malaysia and instead of going to their beaches, yo go to what them eat pangolins, CUCK.



Thanks bro. :thumb001: That man thinks i'm a fucking podemite or socialist, what a fool.

I been to Spain before but always missed the opportunity to financially support and see the fantastic spanish tradition of bullfighting.

[Rocinante]

I been to Spain before but always missed the opportunity to financially support and see the fantastic spanish tradition of bullfighting.

Good for you, kraut.

[Rabbit Hole]

He once called me a troll but I like most of the Spaniards on here. They are the only ones who said I could pass in Turkey.

I have not seen any Spanish users here who could ''pass in Turkey'' given the general demographics that would be silly even in a historial point of view let alone a generic one.

[Avicii86]

I have not seen any Spanish users here who could ''pass in Turkey'' given the general demographics that would be silly even in a historial point of view let alone a generic one.

A few canarians could pass in Turkey imo, but they are atypical.

[Javiberius]

He once called me a troll but I like most of the Spaniards on here. They are the only ones who said I could pass in Turkey.

Let’s just say that Cristiano Viejo is an “Acquired Taste”, imho

[Morena]

Yes, a little. I don't care though.

[Kamal900]

Good for you, kraut.

If Hitler was alive today he'd be thrown to a nearest death camp. Of course, it's only been 75 years since WW2 had ended..so give it some time.

[Morena]

If Hitler was alive today he'd be thrown to a nearest death camp. Of course, it's only been 75 years since WW2 had ended..so give it some time.

who?

[Teutone]

If Hitler was alive today he'd be thrown to a nearest death camp. Of course, it's only been 75 years since WW2 had ended..so give it some time.

I think you would be killed directly for being zoophile.

Hitler would have enjoyed bulfighting like every other European pre 1945.

Subhuman.

[Tauromachos]

I think you would be killed directly for being zoophile.

Hitler would have enjoyed bulfighting like every other European pre 1945.

Subhuman.

Hitler would have his ass pierced by a bull's horn

[SilverKnight]

I don't remember well, it was ions ago, I took things very personal and too serious back then, now I just laugh about it.

[Cristiano viejo]

:picard2:
At least have a bit of your own judgment, if you support bullfighting it should be because you like them, and not because "patriots defend them".

oh, did you understand that?? Nah, I support bullfighting, not because patriots defend it, but because lefties attack it. Very different :thumb001:

[Turkophagos]

Cristiano Viejo is a little whiny bitch.

[Westbrook]

No. I believe he has some appreciation for the elite conquistador blood still flowing through me.

[Kamal900]

who?

The Kraut, who else?

[CordedWhelp]

Nah, we tight.

[Kamal900]

Hitler would have his ass pierced by a bull's horn

I already had placed Teutone in my ignore list, so I don't care what that Kraut cuck like to say. Hitler was a vegetarian, and he deeply cared about animal welfare and rights which is why he banned Kosher slaughter back then as it was a very painful and torturous process in killing the animal. of course, the German animal would have his ass thrown to jail for "hate speech" which is why he never showed his face before. Remember, he used to talk shit against Slavs, especially Poles, before he found out that he's over 20% western Slavic genetically.

[Rocinante]

I think you would be killed directly for being zoophile.

Hitler would have enjoyed bulfighting like every other European pre 1945.

Subhuman.

You are a boche that doesn't even know his second best hero history, behind Rosa von Praundheim. Let me tell you a secret:

Do you know that your Führer is a vegetarian, and that he does not eat meat because of his general attitude toward life and his love for the world of animals? Do you know that your Führer is an exemplary friend of animals, and even as a chancellor, he is not separated from the animals he has kept for years?...The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals, in particular vivisection, and has declared to terminate those conditions...thus fulfilling his role as the savior of animals, from continuous and nameless torments and pain.

- Neugeist/Die Weisse Fahne (contemporaneous pro-Nazi children's magazine).

[Teutone]

You are a boche that doesn't even know his second best hero history, behind Rosa von Praundheim. Let me tell you a secret:

Do you know that your Führer is a vegetarian, and that he does not eat meat because of his general attitude toward life and his love for the world of animals? Do you know that your Führer is an exemplary friend of animals, and even as a chancellor, he is not separated from the animals he has kept for years?...The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals, in particular vivisection, and has declared to terminate those conditions...thus fulfilling his role as the savior of animals, from continuous and nameless torments and pain.

- Neugeist/Die Weisse Fahne (contemporaneous pro-Nazi children's magazine).

Hitler was a vegeterian insane fag. Yet he would never bann bullfighting or impose vegetarianism on the population. Most likely Himmler and Hitler were vegetarians for their limited knowledge on nutrition back then, which made them think its healthy. Francisco Franco did not bann bullfighting and noone of VOX or PP will ever bann it. Side with the moor again, against a fellow spaniard and european?

Hitler introduced some sane regulations and animals rights, nothing as far as banning hunting, butchering or play with them.

There were still zoos and mostly dog fights around.

[Rocinante]

Hitler was a vegeterian insane fag. Yet he would never bann bullfighting or impose vegetarianism on the population. Most likely Himmler and Hitler were vegetarians for their limited knowledge on nutrition back then, which made them think its healthy. Francisco Franco did not bann bullfighting and noone of VOX or PP will ever bann it. Side with the moor again, against a fellow spaniard and european?

Hitler introduced some sane regulations and animals rights, nothing as far as banning hunting, butchering or play with them.

There were still zoos and mostly dog fights around.

Cool history, boche, but there's people inside Vox, PP and C's that doesn't agree with this tradition, so you can be on the right-wing and have common sense. Funny that i'm discussing with a little kraut bitch that the only good thing that has done agaisn't the soft lefties in Germany is running naked through the streets or Berlin to win votes for the AfD.


Cristiano Viejo is a little whiny bitch.

Who is that amerindian you have in your avatar?

[Teutone]

Cool history, boche, but there's people inside Vox, PP and C's that doesn't agree with this tradition, so you can be on the right-wing and have common sense. Funny that i'm discussing with a little kraut bitch that the only good thing that has done agaisn't the soft lefties in Germany is running naked through the streets or Berlin to win votes for the AfD.



Who is that amerindian you have in your avatar?

https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/gettyimages-545070372-1.jpg

Moor lover

[Rocinante]

https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/gettyimages-545070372-1.jpg

Moor lover

Good for them, but i don't go to these manifestations. I'm vegetarian and hate the bloody fiesta, i think it is archaic and way more than the half of this beautiful country knows it.

And i am not a moor lover, i would be even more extreme with inmigration laws than you, because you are a pusseh.

[Teutone]

Good for them, but i don't go to these manifestations. I'm vegetarian and hate the bloody fiesta, i think it is archaic and way more than the half of this beautiful country knows it.

And i am not a moor lover, i would be even more extreme with inmigration laws than you, because you are a pusseh.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DiscreteLeftBlackfootedferret-size_restricted.gif

[Arsen_]

Those who oppose bullfighting are usually very narrow and surface-minded people.

I would like to ask a simple question to such an opponent of bullfighting: what fate and what would he prefer for himself. To be from birth on a chain in a tight cage to grow like an idiot, not seeing absolutely nothing in his life and to be slaughtered for meat in the earliest childhood or to live a worthy free life in green meadows, to receive all kinds of the most exquisite royal pleasures - all that a person can dream of getting in his life and in mature age, having already received all the pleasures, to die in battle?

If the bull after his birth is not selected for bullfighting, the bull is just simply being cut very early into meat.

So these anti-bullfight idiots do not allow even a small number of bulls to live a decent life.

[Cristiano viejo]

Remember, he used to talk shit against Slavs, especially Poles, before he found out that he's over 20% western Slavic genetically.

What will this remind me of?? :lol:

[Teutone]

What will this remind me of?? :lol:

I still have the same view on Poles.

[Cristiano viejo]

I still have the same view on Poles.

Logical. But that is not the point of my comment. That Arab used to talk shit about nort Africans. Logical too. He liked to give me thumb ups when I said truths about them, etc etc.
then now magically he discovered he is ten per cento maghrebi :laugh: and magically too now they are good people and he is very proud of them, jajaja

[Cristiano viejo]

I still have the same view on Poles.

Logical. But that is not the point of my comment. That Arab used to talk shit about nort Africans. Logical too. He liked to give me thumb ups when I said truths about them, etc etc.
then now magically he discovered he is ten per cento maghrebi :laugh: and magically too now they are good people and he is very proud of them, jajaja

[Teutone]

Logical. But that is not the point of my comment. That Arab used to talk shit about nort Africans. Logical too. He liked to give me thumb ups when I said truths about them, etc etc.
then now magically he discovered he is ten per cento maghrebi :laugh: and magically too now they are good people and he is very proud of them, jajaja

Ethnics/Browns stick together at the end.

We Whites/Europeans should do the same primo.

[AlfonsoVIII]

Ethnics/Browns stick together at the end.

We Whites/Europeans should do the same primo.

CV doesn't usually have a good opinion about those who are not Spanish, even if they are White.

[Teutone]

CV doesn't usually have a good opinion about those who are not Spanish, even if they are White.

Never had an issue with him.

I like him.

[Son of Argentina]

Never had an issue with him.

I like him.

He is probably a Jew then, lmao.

[Cristiano viejo]

He is probably a Jew then, lmao.

Viva Inquisisao.

[Aldaris]

Viva Inquisisao.

Atheists weren't really on the top of their friend list, mind you.

[Teutone]

Viva Inquisisao.

How many bullfights have you visited?

[Finnish Swede]

Not really vs few others...

More like pretty harmless member ... in my eys.

Our roads (threads we will post) will not cross too often.

[Gota_type_]

Good for them, but i don't go to these manifestations. I'm vegetarian and hate the bloody fiesta, i think it is archaic and way more than the half of this beautiful country knows it.

And i am not a moor lover, i would be even more extreme with inmigration laws than you, because you are a pusseh.

Did you know that bullfighting is the last pagan custom that we have in Europa? Bullfighting is probably the oldest inmaterial culture that it is still living in Europe and that links us with the old miceans and minoics (just see their old depictings about bullfighting and you would think that you are seeing a picture of Spain recortadores). So, I did not even care about bullfighting ever but since I read that the place where the bulls live 99% of their lives (the large dehesas, which are the "ranchos" where the bulls can run wild and free all their lives until they are killed) are the best ecological support for hundreds of animal species (thanks to the dehesas millions of animals live in Spain without being hunted and the dehesas allow like incredible animals like the Aguila Real could live in a quiet place without being disturbed by hunters or others).

Without bullfighting hunting would be massive in those places, so indirectly bullfighting is saving the lives of millions of animals.

And bulls, despite all the criticism, are the "cattle" that live a better life than any other. There is much more cruelty in any single meat Factory in any single place in the world than what bulls have to live. Even more, the bulls still have an opportunity to kill the bullfighter and live (a tiny minority but still). If I had to chose I would prefer to live the life of a bull (which 99% of it it is infinitely better than any other animal) than to live the life of a cow or a chicken. 99% of their lives are good, and just the last 5-10 minutes are tragedy, but hey that is life. I don´t like some brutal bullfights, but considering everything I support it (even that I don´t really like the bullfighthing per se, I prefer "recortadores").

I also have been defending bullfights because I know that most leftists and liberals and normal retards are against it, so I am in favor of it also because it pisses them off. And last, the reason why a torero is dressed in those ridiculous "trajes de torero" is because they wanted them to look like clowns in order to just show how brave is a man only even dressing like a retard (that is why they dress in pink, like with leggings, and they look like clowns; to look like stupid people that defeat a beast just with their bravery.

[Kamal900]

Logical. But that is not the point of my comment. That Arab used to talk shit about nort Africans. Logical too. He liked to give me thumb ups when I said truths about them, etc etc.
then now magically he discovered he is ten per cento maghrebi :laugh: and magically too now they are good people and he is very proud of them, jajaja

The difference is that I apologize for my views and so on, unlike most of the members here. I always had knew my Berber ancestry before my rant against them, ass. We've had Berber families in Palestine and so on accoridng to my great-grand mother who was born and raised in Palestine for half of her life. I knew these things before my rant against the Berbers due to a great misunderstanding which I had apologized for it. Had you seen Teutone ever apologize to others for his race baiting and etc? No, and neither do you either. Why are Portugese members here aren't like some Spanish idiots like you?

[Rocinante]

Did you know that bullfighting is the last pagan custom that we have in Europa? Bullfighting is probably the oldest inmaterial culture that it is still living in Europe and that links us with the old miceans and minoics (just see their old depictings about bullfighting and you would think that you are seeing a picture of Spain recortadores). So, I did not even care about bullfighting ever but since I read that the place where the bulls live 99% of their lives (the large dehesas, which are the "ranchos" where the bulls can run wild and free all their lives until they are killed) are the best ecological support for hundreds of animal species (thanks to the dehesas millions of animals live in Spain without being hunted and the dehesas allow like incredible animals like the Aguila Real could live in a quiet place without being disturbed by hunters or others).

Without bullfighting hunting would be massive in those places, so indirectly bullfighting is saving the lives of millions of animals.

And bulls, despite all the criticism, are the "cattle" that live a better life than any other. There is much more cruelty in any single meat Factory in any single place in the world than what bulls have to live. Even more, the bulls still have an opportunity to kill the bullfighter and live (a tiny minority but still). If I had to chose I would prefer to live the life of a bull (which 99% of it it is infinitely better than any other animal) than to live the life of a cow or a chicken. 99% of their lives are good, and just the last 5-10 minutes are tragedy, but hey that is life. I don´t like some brutal bullfights, but considering everything I support it (even that I don´t really like the bullfighthing per se, I prefer "recortadores").

I also have been defending bullfights because I know that most leftists and liberals and normal retards are against it, so I am in favor of it also because it pisses them off. And last, the reason why a torero is dressed in those ridiculous "trajes de torero" is because they wanted them to look like clowns in order to just show how brave is a man only even dressing like a retard (that is why they dress in pink, like with leggings, and they look like clowns; to look like stupid people that defeat a beast just with their bravery.

Very informative, and with a respectful and honest manner to say it.

Recortadores are way fun, i don't like it either but i prefer 10000 million times it before bullfight. I understand that cattle lives like kings, but still they have a bloody end, for what sense?

Still, i respect people that like it, i just don't share it, and i am right-wing nationalist too.

[AlfonsoVIII]

Did you know that bullfighting is the last pagan custom that we have in Europa?

False. In Spain we have many traditions of pagan origin.


I also have been defending bullfights because I know that most leftists and liberals and normal retards are against it, so I am in favor of it also because it pisses them off.

:picard2: If the commies tell you not to throw yourself off a cliff, do you throw yourself off just for opposing them?

Some vomiting lefties like Sabina or Calamaro like bullfights, will that now make you anti-bullfighting?

[Gota_type_]

Very informative, and with a respectful and honest manner to say it.

Recortadores are way fun, i don't like it either but i prefer 10000 million times it before bullfight. I understand that cattle lives like kings, but still they have a bloody end, for what sense?

Still, i respect people that like it, i just don't share it, and i am right-wing nationalist too.

I like nature a lot, I obviously don´t like to see how an animal is killed in that way (as an espectáculo), but considering all the things I have to support it (even more considering that without bullfighting we would have to take to extinction that brave animal: it would be financially imposible to support it, so all that like the bulls would have to say that they support its extinction). So, with all, and considering everything I defend it. And recortadores is fun. It is the only way that a bull can "hunt" humans (and every year they kill like 10 people in all of Spain in all the fiestas de los pueblos) and we fail to see the other important thing: we Spaniards like to socialize and las fiestas de los pueblos without the bulls in the streets will be much sadder. It is a way to take all the village to get together and take some vinos and get more social cohesion, which is important for many other things.

[mitalit]

Cuando era pequeño solía ir a ver corridas de toros (a mi abuelo le gustaban mucho) y me aburría un montón. Hoy en día estoy en contra, mas que por el animal por el hecho de que la gente disfrute de ver sufrir a un animal.

[Kamal900]

I like nature a lot, I obviously don´t like to see how an animal is killed in that way (as an espectáculo), but considering all the things I have to support it (even more considering that without bullfighting we would have to take to extinction that brave animal: it would be financially imposible to support it, so all that like the bulls would have to say that they support its extinction). So, with all, and considering everything I defend it. And recortadores is fun. It is the only way that a bull can "hunt" humans (and every year they kill like 10 people in all of Spain in all the fiestas de los pueblos) and we fail to see the other important thing: we Spaniards like to socialize and las fiestas de los pueblos without the bulls in the streets will be much sadder. It is a way to take all the village to get together and take some vinos and get more social cohesion, which is important for many other things.

Well, at least you're respectful on the whole thing, and yeah, the recortadores or bull leaping is much more humane which is an ancient tradition that goes back even to the ancient Minoans:
https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/taking-bull-horns-perilous-minoan-practice-bull-leaping-008501

[Gota_type_]

False. In Spain we have many traditions of pagan origin.



make you anti-bullfighting?

For example?

If you mean the people that dress like wolves in Carnaval and go down to the villages to make some fun, Ok. But bullfighting is the oldest pagan tradition in Spain and in Europa that is still living and supported by any country. And the non-Christian traditions that you might refer to are more a regional thing that a national thing.

[Gota_type_]

Well, at least you're respectful on the whole thing, and yeah, the recortadores or bull leaping is much more humane which is an ancient tradition that goes back even to the ancient Minoans:
https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/taking-bull-horns-perilous-minoan-practice-bull-leaping-008501

Yes, I knew it. And there is probably some kind of connection between the ancient people that lived in today´s Greece with ancient people that lives in today´s Spain. Considering that bullfighting was reactivated in Spain (500-600 years ago) in the basque región (and even is majority supported in the basque región and Navarra where the "Running with the bulls" is world famous) they might be a civilization connection 4000-6000 years ago. It is just a supposition but they might be something into it. Even there are theories that links "Iberian language" with old etruscan and old greek languages.

[Kamal900]

Yes, I knew it. And there is probably some kind of connection between the ancient people that lived in today´s Greece with ancient people that lives in today´s Spain. Considering that bullfighting was reactivated in Spain (500-600 years ago) in the basque región (and even is majority supported in the basque región and Navarra where the "Running with the bulls" is world famous) they might be a civilization connection 4000-6000 years ago. It is just a supposition but they might be something into it. Even there are theories that links "Iberian language" with old etruscan and old greek languages.

I'm guessing that the tradition was brought to the Iberian peninsula by the ancient Greeks and so on. And yeah, the ancient Iberian kingdoms of the west and south did have trade links with Greece and even Phoenicia(modern day Lebanon).

[AlfonsoVIII]

For example?

Winter masquerades, St. Anthony fines, marzas, Maypoles, May crosses & Maya celebration, St. John night, Víspera de los Santos, paloteos...

[Malagueña]

Ahh...
I remember when this thread was about having been insulted or attacked by Cristiano viejo :laugh: