CHG/Iran_Chl auDNA in Yamnaya Horizon 4th millennium BCE

[Eline]

Some people claim that CHG in Yamnaya is very old and was already there during the Neolithic times. There is some truth in it, but most of the CHG/Iran_Chl auDNA that entered Maykop/Yamnaya came mostly after 4th millennium BCE. We have evidence for that.


This increased in the 4th millennium BCE along with the development of new technologies such as the wheel and wagon, copper alloys, new weaponry, and new breeds of domestic sheep. Such contact was critical in the cultural and genetic formation of the Yamnaya complex on the Eurasian Steppe-with about half of BA Steppe ancestry thought to derive from the Caucasus. In the 3rd millennium BC, increased mobility associated with wheeled transport and the intensification of pastoralist practices led to dramatic expansions of populations closely related to the Yamnaya, accompanied by the domestication of horses allowing more efficient keeping of larger herds. These expansions ultimately contributed a substantial fraction to the ancestry of present-day Europe and South Asia. Thus, the Caucasus region played a crucial role in the prehistory and formation of Eurasian genetic diversity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08220-8


https://i.postimg.cc/pL4KVG7k/maykop.jpg


Notice how there was no CHG/Iran_Chl in the Early Maykop, but CHG/Iran_Chl increased drastically after 4th millennium BCE in Late Maykop.


The question is who were those people who increased CHG/Iran_Chl in Maykop after 4th millennium BCE? I think those people came from Zagros Mountains of NorthWest Iran and when they migrated into Maykop on their way they mixed a little bit with their CHG cousins and they got also some extra ANF (Anatolian) auDNA.

[Eline]

Maykop was like Yamnaya, but later on it was Indo-Europeanised by people from the south (by the Ubaid/Leyla-Tepe people). And later that late-PIEan language came to Europe via Yamnaya.

Maykop culture = c. 3700 - 3000 BCE
Yamnaya culture = c. 3300 - 2600 BCE


https://i.postimg.cc/QtJJ4gtD/1200px-Maykop-culture-en-svg.png

[Eline]

So CHG/Iran_CHL in the Steppe Maykop/pre-Yamnaya is really not that old, since it arrived in Late Maykop just after the 4th millennium BCE.

I don't understand the confusion about that.

[Eline]

There was clearly a 'huge' migration from the south to north around the 4th millennium BCE.



https://i.postimg.cc/yN2pQLpt/maikop.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=646&v=sUFBLLAgQU8&feature=emb_logo

[Dr_Maul]

Ok

[FinalFlash]

It's interesting that a Belgian woman knows so much about and takes interest in that region.

[Eline]

Ok?

Just ok?


This is how Maykop kurgan looks like

https://i.postimg.cc/QMB8cjMp/panoramio.jpg

https://peaceandjustice.freeforums.net/thread/792/maikop-culture-pie-homeland?page=5

[Eline]

It's interesting that a Belgian woman knows so much about and takes interest in that region.Yes. Too bad there are not a lot oriental scientists who are interested in this history. Most research on this topic comes from the Western world.

Most likely because Turkish and Arab scholars are more interested in Islam than in this history that they don't consider as their own and try to destroy everything what is not Turkish, Arabic or Islamic and therefore predates them.

[Pater Patota]

Yes, interesting and I wonder Circassians, Chechens and other North Caucasians are related to each other and they’re native to Maykop culture or not.

[Eline]

Yamnaya auDNA is more shifted toward Armenian_ChL/Iran_ChL than toward pure CHG

https://i.postimg.cc/SNVFxjhg/Yamnaya-EHG-CHG-Jan-2018.png

[Eline]

Yes, interesting and I wonder Circassians, Chechens and other North Caucasians are related to each other and they’re native to Maykop culture or not.Of all North Caucasian people, Adyghe people are moslty related to the ancient Maykop since they are native to those lands.

Maykop is the capital and the largest city of the Republic of Adygea.

[NPKTO]

Yamnaya auDNA is more shifted toward Armenian-ChL/Iran_ChL than toward pure CHG

https://i.postimg.cc/SNVFxjhg/Yamnaya-EHG-CHG-Jan-2018.png
It may have to do with more Anatolian farmer DNA in Yamnaya compared to pure CHG. Iran Chl itself has CHG influence as well as heavy Anatolian & Levant N influence.

[Eline]

It may have to do with more Anatolian farmer DNA in Yamnaya compared to pure CHG. Iran Chl itself has CHG influence as well as heavy Anatolian & Levant N influence.Yes but auDNA that entered Late Maykop came after 4th millenium BCE. So that auDNA was not really pure CHG/Iran_neo anymore. At that time pure CHG was extinct. That auDNA that entered Late Maykop was itsself from Iran_ChL era.


https://i.postimg.cc/QxxXTm53/1.pnghttps://i.postimg.cc/CdyHW5bC/2.png

[Pater Patota]

Of all North Caucasian people, Adyghe people are moslty related to the ancient Maykop since they are native to those lands.

Maykop is the capital and the largest city of the Republic of Adygea.

I know of course, I’m part Adyghe.

I mean, generally all Circassians(Adyghe, Kabardin, Abkhazian etc.) remains there since ancient times?What do you think?

[Eline]

I know of course, I’m part Adyghe.

I mean, generally all Circassians(Adyghe, Kabardin, Abkhazian etc.) remains there since ancient times?What do you think?Nice!

generally non-Turkic/Tatar speakers of Northern Caucasus are related to the ancient people. But they are also mixed with the Russians, Iranians and Turks.

The population of Northern Caucaus people is not that high. That is the problem. Due to Iranian and Mongol/Turkic raids ethnic Georgians went almost extinct and only a few thousands of them was left before they got the protection of the Russian Empire. Same with the other populations in the Caucasus.

[Pater Patota]

My closest match on gedmatch ancient calc is Armenia_MBA, so what’s that mean?

[Eline]

My closest match on gedmatch ancient calc is Armenia_MBA, so what’s that mean?Middle Bronze Age Armenian Plateau was Kura-Araxes culture (closely related to Maykop). Proto-Anatolian (proto-Luwian, proto-Hittite) and Graeco-Aryan were most likely derived from this culture.

[Pater Patota]

Middle Bronze Age Armenian Plateau was Kura-Araxes culture (closely related to Maykop). Proto-Anatolian (proto-Luwian, proto-Hittite) and Graeco-Aryan were most likely derived from this culture.

1. Caucasus_HG 40.58
2 Anatolian_NF 26.75
3 European_HG 11.34
4 Near_East 10.99
5 South_Asian 5.04
6 East_Asian 2.54
7 Siberian 2.47
8 Sub-Saharan 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian_MBA 8.85
2 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94 29.39
3 Scythian_IA_I0247 30.27
4 Srubnaya_I0430 31.8
5 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 33.49
6 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 33.76
7 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 34.3
8 Andronovo_SG_RISE505 35.11
9 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 35.14
10 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104 35.35
11 Kostenki14_UP_SG 35.41
12 Potapovka_I0419 35.87
13 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 35.96
14 Poltavka_I0440 36.09
15 Unetice_EBA_I0117 36.38
16 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103 36.43
17 Srubnaya_I0232 36.55
18 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552 37.24
19 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 37.8
20 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00 38.36

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87% Armenian_MBA + 13% Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.85
2 87.4% Armenian_MBA + 12.6% LBK_EN_I0054 @ 6.23
3 87.7% Armenian_MBA + 12.3% Hungary_EN_I0495 @ 6.31
4 88.1% Armenian_MBA + 11.9% Stuttgart_SG @ 6.33
5 87.7% Armenian_MBA + 12.3% Hungary_CA_I1497 @ 6.34
6 89.3% Armenian_MBA + 10.7% Baalberge_MN_I0560 @ 6.53
7 87.9% Armenian_MBA + 12.1% Iceman_MN_SG @ 6.57
8 88.5% Armenian_MBA + 11.5% Iberia_EN_I0412 @ 6.61
9 89.9% Armenian_MBA + 10.1% Iberia_M_ I0406 @ 6.72
10 90% Armenian_MBA + 10% Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489 @ 6.75
11 89.7% Armenian_MBA + 10.3% Epserstedt_MN_I0172 @ 6.81
12 90.4% Armenian_MBA + 9.6% Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300 @ 6.82
13 90% Armenian_MBA + 10% Ust_Ishim_DG @ 7.01
14 86.8% Armenian_MBA + 13.2% Kostenki14_UP_SG @ 7.1
15 94.2% Armenian_MBA + 5.8% Anatolian Neolithic_I0746 @ 7.41
16 94.3% Armenian_MBA + 5.7% Anatolian Neolithic_I0745 @ 7.43
17 91.6% Armenian_MBA + 8.4% Hungary_BA_I1502 @ 7.81
18 91.6% Armenian_MBA + 8.4% Vatya_SG_RISE479 @ 7.85
19 90.5% Armenian_MBA + 9.5% Alberstedt_LN_I0118 @ 8.15
20 91% Armenian_MBA + 9% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97@ 8.22

Actually, I’m not sure how accurate this calculate is.

[Eline]

Your results should be placed somewhere between ancient Kura-Araxes and Southern Maykop.

Kura-Araxes = 4000 - 2000 BCE
Maykop = 3700 - 3000 BCE


https://i.postimg.cc/3xWM4gTt/3.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/d0BGbT7K/cambridge.png

[Immanenz]

It's interesting that a Belgian woman knows so much about and takes interest in that region.

It makes a lot sense to me :wink