Pontic Greek Gedmatch results

[AncientGreek]

In your "scientific" source the difference between Crete, islands and mainland Greece in terms of ev13 is even smaller than in my source, which means you technically confirm my claims (that ev13 is lower in dodecanese mainly becauze of assimilated levantines) and debunk your own better than i did, but regardless from if we agree or disagree the irony in your speech (thanks for laugh etc) shows that you're what in Greece we call "malakas" and don't worth any attention

You were completely clueless about "Aegean islands that were vastly repopulated by mainlanders" with zero sources supporting your claims, when we know that even of this is true for medieval times it technically is even more true for the classical period, resulting further levantine admixture in dodecanese.

Your agenda revealed. So according you you Cretans are assimilated Levantines? Have you looked at the table? Levantine people (Cypriots & Druze) have higher E-V13 than Crete. :rolleyes:

[Tauromachos]

Cyprus is Cyprus different state.

The citizens are Greek speaking AND Turkish speaking

Cypriots have more to do with Ancient Greeks than you slavophone slavicized mongrels.

Greek Cypriots speak only Greek and their Greek has many Ancient Greek words and phrases unlike you whose
ancestors spoke Slavic
You better don't talk about Cypriots and if they are Greek

[Renekton]

Cypriots have more to do with Ancient Greeks than you slavophone slavicized mongrels.

Greek Cypriots speak only Greek and their Greek has many Ancient Greek words and phrases unlike you whose
ancestors spoke Slavic
You better don't talk about Cypriots and if they are GreekMy ancestors spoke Macedonian
Cypriots speak Greek and Turkish
Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are the same

[Tauromachos]

I don’t look like a Slav, kipchak or Avar. I like like a damn wog, ok? Mate?

And see those gloves im wearing, they are for when I give you a prostate exam. Apo pisou.

You look like an Albo in particular the picture in your avatar

[Tauromachos]

My ancestors spoke Macedonian


Your ancestors were slavicized Albos who spoke a Slavic dialect

[Renekton]

Macedonian
Μακεδονικά

Deal with it

[Tauromachos]

Macedonian
Μακεδονικά

Deal with it

You are a Slavo Vlach Albanian no Ancient Dorian or Macedonian

Deal with it!

[brennus dux gallorum]

Your agenda revealed. So according you you Cretans are assimilated Levantines? Have you looked at the table? Levantine people (Cypriots & Druze) have higher E-V13 than Crete. :rolleyes:

Yes i have an agenda to prove that "Cretans are levantine", because i have nothing more important to do in life... you are officially insane right:D? Autosomally crete has more steppe/European admixture than dodecanese, just like ALL Aegean and Ionian islands (mine included) and you attribute it to medieval mainland imigrations which you never prove by sources. Ev13 is nearly the same in the islands and mainland at the same time that among the 100-150 inhabited islands of Greece only 5-10 have significant medieval mainland immigration s and all around mainland

No wonder why the most bullied person in the army in my conscription was from Rhodes, people there must be highly retarded

[Tauromachos]

Yes i have an agenda to prove that "Cretans are levantine", because i have nothing more important to do in life... you are officially insane right:D? Autosomally crete has more steppe/European admixture than dodecanese, just like ALL Aegean and Ionian islands (mine included) and you attribute it to medieval mainland imigrations which you never prove by sources. Ev13 is nearly the same in the islands and mainland at the same time that among the 100-150 inhabited islands of Greece only 5-10 have significant medieval mainland immigration s and all around mainland



Its simple first the Greek Islands except Dodecanese were repopulated by Mainland Greeks from Northern Greece Macedonia
then the now empty parts of Northern Mainland Greece were repopulated by Balkan Slavs :D

[Renekton]

You are a Slavo Vlach Albanian no Ancient Dorian or Macedonian

Deal with it!You are a Syrian refugee in Grecia


Deal with it

[Tauromachos]

You are a Syrian refugee in Grecia


Deal with it

You are a troll a homo and a foreign butthurt Fyrom Slav in Greece^

This used to be another account he made here:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?25143-Vertiskos

[brennus dux gallorum]

Its simple first the Greek Islands except Dodecanese were repopulated by Mainland Greeks from Northern Greece Macedonia
then the now empty parts of Northern Mainland Greece were repopulated by Balkan Slavs :D

Yes they took ferryboats from thessaloniki to Cyclades, lesvos lemnos sporades etc :D

[Renekton]

You are a troll a homo and a foreign butthurt Fyrom Slav in Greece

This used to be another account he made here:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?25143-VertiskosIt wasn't me.

Keep projecting I'm Greek citizen paying my taxes here.

[Tauromachos]

It wasn't me.

Keep projecting I'm Greek citizen paying my taxes here.

It was you you made this account and argued with Hellenas

[AncientGreek]

Yes i have an agenda to prove that "Cretans are levantine", because i have nothing more important to do in life... you are officially insane right:D? Autosomally crete has more steppe/European admixture than dodecanese, just like ALL Aegean and Ionian islands (mine included) and you attribute it to medieval mainland imigrations which you never prove by sources. Ev13 is nearly the same in the islands and mainland at the same time that among the 100-150 inhabited islands of Greece only 5-10 have significant medieval mainland immigration s and all around mainland

No wonder why the most bullied person in the army in my conscription was from Rhodes, people there must be highly retarded

And yet Kos still has more steppe than Mycenaeans, a fact you continue to ignore. Somehow Cretans and Dodecanese islanders are simply assimilated Levantines to you, when their admixtures and Y-DNA haplogroup distributions most closely resemble the expected ones. Crete and Dodecanese have lots of things in common (similar admixture and Y-Haplogroup distribution), one more being they were both Dorian. If Dorians carried E-V13, then I doubt E-V13 would be lowest in Dodecanese and Crete. So again, please tell me where E-V13 came from? :coffee:

[catgeorge]

It was you you made this account and argued with Hellenas

Enough you Levantine idiot - North Greeks are as Greek as anyone - half of Cypriots are left wing mongrels and not as patriotic and love for Greece as North Greeks.

[brennus dux gallorum]

And yet Kos still has more steppe than Mycenaeans, a fact you continue to ignore. Somehow Cretans and Dodecanese islanders are simply assimilated Levantines to you, when their admixtures and Y-DNA haplogroup distributions most closely resemble the expected ones. Crete and Dodecanese have lots of things in common (similar admixture and Y-Haplogroup distribution), one more being they were both Dorian. If Dorians carried E-V13, then I doubt E-V13 would be lowest in Dodecanese and Crete. So again, please tell me where E-V13 came from? :coffee:

Levantine MIXED, and more precisely more levantine mixed than other islands and mainland

Ev13 was carried by dorians and other Greeks, and yes, if Dorians assimilated more natives in dodecanese than other islands and mainland due to distance, ev13 would easily be lower in dodecanese, which is just why other islands have much more of it than dodecanese

[Renekton]

It was you you made this account and argued with HellenasLmao no xD xD

[Vojnik]

Hahns is a dopion though. Not a Prosfiga. This is directed at Super Dorian.

[Vojnik]

Enough you Levantine idiot - North Greeks are as Greek as anyone - half of Cypriots are left wing mongrels and not as patriotic and love for Greece as North Greeks.

North Greeks the most heavily brainwashed of all the Greeks. Could explain there fanaticism. The Grkomans (some of my relatives) seem to be the most fanatic Greeks. Islander Greeks seem more chill.

[Tauromachos]

Enough you Levantine idiot - North Greeks are as Greek as anyone - half of Cypriots are left wing mongrels and not as patriotic and love for Greece as North Greeks.

Hahns is a Slavophone who wants to turn North Greece into Bulgaria and after the whole of Mainland Greece into a Slavo Macedo Bulgarian state i don't consider him as Greek

Cypriots in their language and possibly also in their customs and culture have preserved more authentic Ancient Greek elements than Slavophones like him whose ancestors did not even speak Greek

[catgeorge]

North Greeks the most heavily brainwashed of all the Greeks. Could explain there fanaticism. The Grkomans (some of my relatives) seem to be the most fanatic Greeks. Islander Greeks seem more chill.

Maybe because we spilled the most blood to keep Greece Greek from Slav imbeciles.

We are a tough nut to crack so therefore come the slurs from Slavbrains.

Agios Dimitrios
Bulgarofagos

...and the modern list is endless.

[Renekton]

Hahns is a Slavophone who wants to turn North Greece into Bulgaria and after the whole of Mainland Greece into a Slavo Macedo Bulgarian state i don't consider him as Greek

Cypriots in their language and possibly also in their customs and culture have preserved more authentic Ancien Greek elements than Slavophones like him whose
ancestors did not even speak GreekLMAO LMAO I WILL BRING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE GREECE LMAO

[catgeorge]

Hahns is a Slavophone who wants to turn North Greece into Bulgarian and after whole of Mainland Greece into a Slavo Macedo Bulgarian state i don't consider him as Greek

Cypriots in their language and possibly also in their customs and culture have preserved more authentic Ancien Greek elements than Slavophones like him whose
ancestors did not even speak Greek

Slavophone Greeks are more Greek than Cypriots... now stfu you know shit from clay nor the difference between your arse and your elbow.

Itlain speaking Greeks are more Greek yet Slavophone Greeks were Greek blooded for 5000 years prior. Now stfu you Levantine Syrian inbred.

[Renekton]

Slavophone Greeks are more Greek than Cypriots... now stfu you know shit from clay nor the difference between your arse and your elbow.

Itlain speaking Greeks are more Greek yet Slavophone Greeks were Greek blooded for 5000 years prior. Now stfu you Levantine Syrian inbred.The fun fact my ancestors participated in Greek War of Independence unlike his..

[Tauromachos]

LMAO LMAO I WILL BRING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE GREECE LMAO

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

[Tauromachos]

Slavophone Greeks are more Greek than Cypriots...


No they are not

[Konstantinos]

Slavs tried to invade Greece a number of time and were kicked out

Bulgarians who were among the worst and most brutal were fucked by Basil II with his army and since then never tried again

End of story

Slavs invaded and captured parts of the mainland since the Empire was busy with Arabs in the East. When they were able to focus on Greece proper they regained the lands and as you said Basil finished the job.

[catgeorge]

No they are not

Be quiet Arab.

Culture is more similar to Constantinople than Saudi Arabia

[Renekton]

No they are notYes they are

[Tauromachos]

Yes they are

No

[Vojnik]

No they are not

Yes.

[catgeorge]

The fun fact my ancestors participated in Greek War of Independence unlike his..

His ancestors didnt even participate in the Cypriot-Turkish conflict as his bloodline was a follower of Makarios

[Vojnik]

No

Da, nie sme po blizgi.

[Renekton]

His ancestors didnt even participate in the Cypriot-Turkish conflict as his bloodline was a follower of MakariosCucks

[Tauromachos]

Da, nie sme po blizgi.

Ai gamisu


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-A7sb_LT2Q

[yamagi]

It's obvious that Greece has some direct Slavic admixture, when you look at the villages with Slavic topynoms, the only people denying it are brainwashed Greek nationalists with an IQ of 85

[Tauromachos]

Cucks

Cuck!
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=24815&dateline=1588584928

[catgeorge]

It's obvious that Greece has some direct Slavic admixture, when you look at the villages with Slavic topynoms, the only people denying it are brainwashed Greek nationalists with an IQ of 85

The one liner intransigence without evidence - congratulations. Now move along potato farmer.

[Vojnik]

Ai gamisu


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-A7sb_LT2Q

Fis and tsips sop.


https://youtu.be/SVgzuE7293Q

[yamagi]

The one liner intransigence without evidence - congratulations. Now move along potato farmer.

Sorry, I don't waste my time lecturing people who can't accept objective studies which summarize subjects from genetics to history.

[yamagi]

The one liner intransigence without evidence - congratulations. Now move along potato farmer.

Sorry, I don't waste my time lecturing people who can't accept objective studies which summarize subjects from genetics to history.

[brennus dux gallorum]

It's obvious that Greece has some direct Slavic admixture, when you look at the villages with Slavic topynoms, the only people denying it are brainwashed Greek nationalists with an IQ of 85

Which Greek denied it?

[brennus dux gallorum]

It's obvious that Greece has some direct Slavic admixture, when you look at the villages with Slavic topynoms, the only people denying it are brainwashed Greek nationalists with an IQ of 85

Which Greek denied it?

[Vojnik]

Why is it that Greeks think they invented the world, but could not invent something as simple as the sounds ‘sh’ and ‘ch’?

[catgeorge]

Sorry, I don't waste my time lecturing people who can't accept objective studies which summarize subjects from genetics to history.

Thats nice dear, while your at it get an education. Bye now.

[Konstantinos]

Cyprus is Cyprus different state.

The citizens are Greek speaking AND Turkish speaking

I don`t even care for your ultra idiotic arguments but Cyprus is and will always be Greek. Turks there are not even Turkish Cypriots but implanted from Anatolia after the occupation.

Shit about ungreeking Greeks or we are Greeker will not be tolerated. Instead focus on the trolls here who have infected the thread.

[catgeorge]

Why is it that Greeks think they invented the world, but could not invent something as simple as the sounds ‘sh’ and ‘ch’?

Thats like "Th" as in theta "Θ" as in Thessaloniki that is a mechanism to separate the civilised from the barbarians.

[Tauromachos]

I don`t even care for your ultra idiotic arguments but Cyprus is and will always be Greek. Turks there are not even Turkish Cypriots but implanted from Anatolia after the occupation.

+1


Shit about ungreeking Greeks or we are Greeker will not be tolerated. Instead focus on the trolls here who have infected the thread.

The thing is he is part of the problem

He is a troll himself with an agenda he is no real Macedonian Greek but a Slavophone who often made pro Fyro Macedonian posts

[catgeorge]

I don`t even care for your ultra idiotic arguments but Cyprus is and will always be Greek. Turks there are not even Turkish Cypriots but implanted from Anatolia after the occupation.

Shit about ungreeking Greeks or we are Greeker will not be tolerated. Instead focus on the trolls here who have infected the thread.

Superdorian has been trolling North Greeks for no reason for a while now and that will equally not be accepted under any circumstance. I will now allow a Cypriot to slur North Greeks.

[Tauromachos]

Superdorian has been trolling North Greeks for no reason for a while now and that will equally not be acdcepted under any circumstance. I will now allow a Cypriot to slur North Greeks.

I have not been trolling North Greeks only Slav admixed trolls from Northern Greece who spam propaganda and Vlacho Albanian racists

[catgeorge]

Proto Balkanian people not Levantines.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOko7vKfBwY&t=55s

[catgeorge]

I have not been trolling North Greeks only Slav admixed trolls from Northern Greece and Vlacho Albanian racists

You have been trolling North Greeks for too long you fucking inbred Arab.

[Renekton]

I don`t even care for your ultra idiotic arguments but Cyprus is and will always be Greek. Turks there are not even Turkish Cypriots but implanted from Anatolia after the occupation.

Shit about ungreeking Greeks or we are Greeker will not be tolerated. Instead focus on the trolls here who have infected the thread.Stated my personal opinion.
Please don't tell me what I to do

[Renekton]

+1


The thing is he is part of the problem

He is a troll himself with an agenda he is no real Macedonian Greek but a Slavophone who often made pro Fyro Macedonian postsΌχι Έλληνας πολίτης είμαι φιλαράκι δεν είμαι από την πρώην γιουγκοσλαβια.
Εσύ είσαι πολιτογραφημενος; Έχεις υπηρετήσει την στρατιωτική σου θητεία;

[Tauromachos]

Stated my personal opinion.
Please don't tell me what I to do

Please don't tell others what they have to do and who is more Greek

[Konstantinos]

My ancestors spoke Macedonian
Cypriots speak Greek and Turkish
Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are the same

Your ancestors can`t have spoken "MaCeDoNiAn" since there`s no such language. That way fuck off to Skopje or at least don`t travel south of Aridaia or Florina, you know the small places we let a few Bulgarians live so they know what civilization looks like. And you are Greeker than a Cypriot get the fuck out.

[Tauromachos]

Όχι Έλληνας πολίτης είμαι φιλαράκι δεν είμαι από την πρώην γιουγκοσλαβια.
Εσύ είσαι πολιτογραφημενος; Έχεις υπηρετήσει την στρατιωτική σου θητεία;

Σλαβοφωνος απο την Μακεδονια εισαι οπως δυλωσες ο ιδιος καποτε

Ναι εχω υπηρετησει ,εχω βλακωσει και μερικες μαλακες στην ζοι μου που με λεγανε μαλακιες στο ξυλο

Εσυ εχεις παιξει ξυλο ποτε ανδρα με ανδρα?

[catgeorge]

Your ancestors can`t have spoken "MaCeDoNiAn" since there`s no such language. That way fuck off to Skopje or at least don`t travel south of Aridaia or Florina, you know the small places we let a few Bulgarians live so they know what civilization looks like. And you are Greeker than a Cypriot get the fuck out.

He's trolling SuperDorian....it takes awhile to understand his trolling.

[Renekton]

Σλαβοφωνος απο την Μακεδονια εισαι οπος δυλοσες ο ιδιος καποτε

Ναι εχω υπερετισει εχω βλακωσει και μερικες μαλακες στην ζοι μου που μου λεγανε μαλακιες στο ξυλο

Εσυ εχεις παιξει ξυλο ποτε ανδρα με ανδρα?Από ορθογραφία και συντακτικό σκίζεις Ελληναρα μου

[Tauromachos]

Από ορθογραφία και συντακτικό σκίζεις Ελληναρα μου

Μραβο ρε μαλακα :thumb001:

[Renekton]

Your ancestors can`t have spoken "MaCeDoNiAn" since there`s no such language. That way fuck off to Skopje or at least don`t travel south of Aridaia or Florina, you know the small places we let a few Bulgarians live so they know what civilization looks like. And you are Greeker than a Cypriot get the fuck out.Sorry to bust your bubble but the Greek government already recognized the Macedonian language via Prespa agreement. Even in 1977 with Karamanlis government

[Renekton]

Σας γλέντησα το κωλαράκι για σήμερα. Αύριο πάλι

[Tauromachos]

Σας γλέντησα το κωλαράκι για σήμερα. Αύριο πάλι

Εννοεις γλεντισες το κωλαρακι σου

Αφου εισαι αγριοπουσταρα αυτο κανεις

[Tauromachos]

Sorry to bust your bubble but the Greek government already recognized the Macedonian language via Prespa agreement. Even in 1977 with Karamanlis government

[Konstantinos]

Superdorian has been trolling North Greeks for no reason for a while now and that will equally not be accepted under any circumstance. I will now allow a Cypriot to slur North Greeks.

I haven`t noticed it yet but be sure my response would be the same as it is equally unacceptable. But a Slav(ophone?) doing it fuck me.

[catgeorge]

I haven`t noticed it yet but be sure my response would be the same as it is equally unacceptable. But a Slav(ophone?) doing it fuck me.

He doesn't know a word he just says he does due to the diarrhea being thrown at us by Levantines.

[catgeorge]

Superdorian a fun fact for you.

Albania - South Skopjia and 50% of Bulgaria is closer genetically to Central_Greece than Cyprus is.

[Konstantinos]

He's trolling SuperDorian....it takes awhile to understand his trolling.

I`m not one for trolling but if that`s what they want to do whatever. But there`s a personal limit in my nerves when I see trolling that involves my ethnos.

If he decided to choose the Greek side great, but it`s not what I understand when I see Macedonian.

[catgeorge]

I`m not one for trolling but if that`s what they want to do whatever. But there`s a personal limit in my nerves when I see trolling that involves my ethnos.

If he decided to choose the Greek side great, but it`s not what I understand when I see Macedonian.

Pay attention to he is responding to and knowing the history of the person who he is responding to.

One of Zeus greatest strengths is driving his opponents insane. Straight from Mt Olympus.

[Konstantinos]

Sorry to bust your bubble but the Greek government already recognized the Macedonian language via Prespa agreement. Even in 1977 with Karamanlis government

They might as well recognize ouga-bouga as a language, doesn`t mean it is true. If I declare myself an alien doesn`t make me one.

[Konstantinos]

Pay attention to he is responding to and knowing the history of the person who he is responding to.

One of Zeus greatest strengths is driving his opponents insane. Straight from Mt Olympus.

Is there an option we have no trolling between us? That`s my preference.

[Konstantinos]

We have here RabbitHole 2.0, Turks and Skopjans trolling us and we are infighting. Spot the problem.

[Tauromachos]

We have here RabbitHole 2.0, Turks and Skopjans trolling us and we are infighting. Spot the problem.

Who is the RabbitHole2.0?

[Rgvgjhvv]

So, about Pontic Greeks.....

[Roman-Anatolian]

This is quite strange. You lack any East Asian/Siberian contribution, usually for Turks it's between 5-15%, can go up to 22% depending on the person, yet you score close to Turks and even to Azeris.

I'm assuming this is because of noticeable European contribution combined with East Mediterranean heritage. Compared to Armenians/Anatolian-Greeks, Turks score higher European due to Yamnaya heritage. You might not be fully Pontian though since your results are wildly different from others.

The European admixture can't be described with Greek heritage since Greeks themselves are around 30% at best. A fully Pontic person having 20% doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The average there is literally 1%

I am full Pontian having russian great grandmother. So 1/8 Russia.

[Tauromachos]

Why is it that Greeks think they invented the world, but could not invent something as simple as the sounds ‘sh’ and ‘ch’?

World wasn't invented by Greeks it was our dear God who did

But Greeks were the first who figured out that the world is round :)

[Konstantinos]

Who is the RabbitHole2.0?

Substitute HittitoPhoenician with GrecoCarian and your eyes shall open.

[kleenex]

Ok here me out.

Greeks have a lot of variety. Pontic Greeks are the most outlying in the sense that they are the closest to Lazs and Armenians but they are distinct from them in the sense that they show "Mediterranean" shift. This situation is to be expected since Pontus is the farthest Greek region from the core and doesn't have land borders with any other Greek region, so the initial Greek colonizers couldn't be a lot since they have to have traveled by sea(as we also know through history). These colonizers quickly Hellenized the local population and developed the modern Pontic Greek profile.

Now so far the Pontic Greek results that floated around were much closer to Lazs and Armenians than yours. Essentially that means you show much more Mainland Greek shift. Since genetics is underdeveloped in Greece most results are provided by "barbarians" ;) It is my personal opinion(and only that, so I may well be wrong) that there's a big agenda towards Greeks. Your results are illuminating in that they are both very Mainland Greek shifted and at the same time show a Steppe affinity that is supposed to have been mostly introduced to Greeks through Slavic invasions. I have my strong doubts about that and am long in search of Asia Minor, and other non-core Greek areas' results to investigate that.

Be prepared to here stories how a "Slavic-influenced Mainlander Greek village" decided to migrate to your Pontic Greek villages and influence your results. If you have any questions I'm very happy to answer.

Ok lets put things in historical perspective. Peloponnesian Greeks were essentially Mycenean like until the 6th century when Slavs entered the Western Peloponnese without any notable contention from the Anatolian Byzantines who ruled the Eastern Peloponnese. From the 6th century on there was an intermittent influx of Albanians, Slavs, Bulgars, Avars, Franks, Venetians, etc. So if we try to analyze Greek mainlanders we must consider these various historical influences.

[kleenex]

A true Greek. Welcome file

So are you suggesting that us mainland Greeks are mixed Greek/Albanian/Slavs mutts because if you are I'm ok with that.

[Konstantinos]

Ok lets put things in historical perspective. Peloponnesian Greeks were essentially Mycenean like until the 6th century when Slavs entered the Western Peloponnese without any notable contention from the Anatolian Byzantines who ruled the Eastern Peloponnese. From the 6th century on there was an intermittent influx of Albanians, Slavs, Bulgars, Avars, Franks, Venetians, etc. So if we try to analyze Greek mainlanders we must consider these various historical influences.

Until we have samples later than Mycenaeans we don`t know how Peloponnesians were just before Slavs. They were surely similar but let`s first account for Dorians and internal migrations.

[Rgvgjhvv]

So are you suggesting that us mainland Greeks are mixed Greek/Albanian/Slavs mutts because if you are I'm ok with that.

No. The Greek ethnogene is diverse and beautiful, but all connected and related to each other. It's a representation of our amazing history.

But okay........

[Joso]

Substitute HittitoPhoenician with GrecoCarian and your eyes shall open.

Stop trolling the poor girl, you subhuman!
I am reporting you.

[Joso]

They might as well recognize ouga-bouga as a language, doesn`t mean it is true. If I declare myself an alien doesn`t make me one.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italicroots/italian-and-etruscan-invasion-of-greece-anatolia-a-t1064.html

[brennus dux gallorum]

Ok lets put things in historical perspective. Peloponnesian Greeks were essentially Mycenean like until the 6th century when Slavs entered the Western Peloponnese without any notable contention from the Anatolian Byzantines who ruled the Eastern Peloponnese. From the 6th century on there was an intermittent influx of Albanians, Slavs, Bulgars, Avars, Franks, Venetians, etc. So if we try to analyze Greek mainlanders we must consider these various historical influences.

Bulgars never invaded peloponnese and most of central Greece, and avars didn't make permanent settlements.

The people who really created settlements in southern Greece (peloponnese included) and interacted with natives were mainly Slavs and Franks (see gasmuloi), meanwhile Albanians did this in specific parts of the country and the same goes for Venetians (in coastal cities)

Now of course the more north and more inland you go in the mainland the more slavic admixture you should expect, meanwhile franks were limited to southern mainland

But like kostantinos correctly said, mycaeneans were very likely somewhat more "neolithic" and less steppe than later Greeks (Dorians Ionians etc) so probably peloponnese wasn't exactly like mycaeneans from 10th century BC to 6th century AD but a little more steppe after Dorian invasion

[-Scar-]

Bulgars never invaded peloponnese and most of central Greece, and avars didn't make permanent settlements.

The people who really created settlements in southern Greece (peloponnese included) and interacted with natives were mainly Slavs and Franks (see gasmuloi), meanwhile Albanians did this in specific parts of the country and the same goes for Venetians (in coastal cities)

Now of course the more north and more inland you go in the mainland the more slavic admixture you should expect, meanwhile franks were limited to southern mainland

But like kostantinos correctly said, mycaeneans were very likely somewhat more "neolithic" and less steppe than later Greeks (Dorians Ionians etc) so probably peloponnese wasn't exactly like mycaeneans from 10th century BC to 6th century AD but a little more steppe after Dorian invasion

I am sorry to burst your bubble but the Frankish and Venetian contribution is very miminal compared to Slavic one.
Peloponnesians can be modelled as 65% Myceaneans and 35% Medieval Slavic. Early Slavs were similar to northern Slavs but not indentical because Northern Slavs have some Baltic and Germanic Admixture.
Given the fact that Albanians were 90% similar to Peloponnesians Greeks before entering Peloponnese it safe to assume that most of that 35% comes from Slavs themselves.

[-Scar-]

Unfortunately, 95% of the people here are absolutely retarded, and come up with their own baseless numbers for Slavic admixture in Greece. If you want to get an accurate picture of the aforementioned admixture, using G25 would be your best bet. Below is a simple and precise model that works for mainland Greeks, using Slovakians as the group representing early Slavs. The addition of Syrian represents near eastern admixture that entered Greece. I am using them because I am suspecting that the original group were Greek speaking Christians from the Antioch area. UKR_Cimmerian represents any post Mycenaean native Balkan like stuff (Illyrian, Thracian, Dorian)

[1] "distance%=1.6568"

Greek_Central_Macedonia

Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,49.2
Slovakian,38.4
UKR_Cimmerian,10.8
Pulliyar,1.6

Using severall populations is not very accurate, IMO. One vs one would be better, if one wants to dected the northern ancestry specifically.

[Renekton]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but the Frankish and Venetian contribution is very miminal compared to Slavic one.
Peloponnesians can be modelled as 65% Myceaneans and 35% Medieval Slavic. Early Slavs were similar to northern Slavs but not indentical because Northern Slavs have some Baltic and Germanic Admixture.
Given the fact that Albanians were 90% similar to Peloponnesians Greeks before entering Peloponnese it safe to assume that most of that 35% comes from Slavs themselves.Correct

[Tauromachos]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but the Frankish and Venetian contribution is very miminal compared to Slavic one.

There is no bubble to burst Slavs didn't have a huge impact or genetic influence in Peloponnese 14% is the maximum of Slavic admixture Peloponnesians can have and in many of them its significantly lower if you go to Peloponnese in alot of places you can observe by phenotype alone that these people are not Slavs except of if you want to cherrypick and focus on a handfull individuals who might resemble Slavs




Peloponnesians can be modelled as 65% Myceaneans and 35% Medieval Slavic. Early Slavs were similar to northern Slavs but not indentical because Northern Slavs have some Baltic and Germanic Admixture.
Given the fact that Albanians were 90% similar to Peloponnesians Greeks before entering Peloponnese it safe to assume that most of that 35% comes from Slavs themselves.

I don't know if they can modelled that way but according to the known studies they are about 65%-70% Mycanaean like plus 30% other
I don't think that the 30% all of it is from medieval Slavs if you think that then i think you are an Idiot

[-Scar-]

There is no bubble to burst Slavs didn't have a huge impact or genetic influence in Peloponnese 14% is the maximum of Slavic admixture Peloponnesians can have and in many of them its significantly lower if you go to Peloponnese in alot of places you can observe by phenotype alone that these people are not Slavs except of if you want to cherrypick and focus on a handfull indivuals who might resemble Slavs




I don't know if they can modelled that way but according to the known studies they are about 65%-70% Mycanaean like plus 30% other
I don't think that the 30% all of it is from medieval Slavs if you think that then i think you are an Idiot

The contribution of Venetians, Goths and Franks is one digit percentage so most of the 35% comes from Slavs. On the other hand what is considered Myceaneans is actually Paleo-Ballakanic to large extend, even though Thracians had their own differences they were still more similar to Ionian Greeks than most modern population expect for Sicilians, but most of it comes from ancient Greeks at least in Peloponnese.

[Tauromachos]

The contribution of Venetians, Goths and Franks is one digit percentage so most of the 35% comes from Slavs.


Dude even if Franks,Goths and Venetians would have left only low admixture it doesn't prove that the 35%-30% is from Slavs
There is more to Greece and its history than only Slavs and som Franks,Venetians,Goths
I personally don't mind Slavic influence in Greeks or try to claim that it doesn't exist but its the most overrated thing here on anthroboards
i have seen.





On the other hand what is considered Myceaneans is actually Paleo-Ballakanic to large extend, even though Thracians had their own differences they were still more similar to Ionian Greeks than most modern population expect for Sicilians, but most of it comes from ancient Greeks at least in Peloponnese.

Dude i don't know what you are talking about or want to prove to me, Greeks are much older entity than you Albos if Albanians plot so close to Greeks and Mycanaeans maybe you should ask how much influence or ancestry you may have from Greeks because there were no such people as Albos who spoke Albanian in your region prior to the Medieval

Note that you don't plot only close to Greeks but also to various Italians for that matter
Even Sicilians are not that much far off from you

[-Scar-]

Dude even if Franks,Goths and Venetians would have left only low admixture it doesn't prove that the 35%-30% is from Slavs
There is more to Greece and its history than only Slavs and som Franks,Venetians,Goths
I personally don't mind Slavic influence in Greeks or try to claim that it doesn't exist but its the most overrated thing here on anthroboards
i have seen.





Dude i don't know what you are talking about or want to prove to me, Greeks are much older entity than you Albos if Albanians plot so close to Greeks and Mycanaeans maybe you should ask how much influence or ancestry you may have from Greeks because there were no such people as Albos who spoke Albanian in your region prior to the Medieval

Note that you don't plot only close to Greeks but also to various Italians for that matter
Even Sicilians are not that much far off from you

In my opinion most of that 35% comes from Slavs I could be wrong. Simple as that.

[Renekton]

The peoples living today around the Mediterranean Sea are all related, after thousands of years of intermittently attacking and loving each other, a new genetic study has unsurprisingly shown. However, the data from the international team of scientists found a startling exception: mainland Greeks, who seem to be genetically closer to Albanians than to their brethren in the Greek islands.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/archaeology/mainland-island-greeks-genetically-diverged-in-middle-ages-1.5489323

[Tauromachos]

Its Albanians who are close to Greeks and Italians not the other way around

Albanians are closest to Tuscans and Central Italians
Most Mainland Greeks to Central till South Italians and Greek Islanders to South Italians and Sicilians

The Sarno study to which the article this clown posted refers doesn't contradict what i have said here^

[Renekton]

Why would the mainland Greeks have gained such strong genetic affiliation with the Balkans? Population expansions during the Middle Ages, suggest the scientists, noting the Slavic migrations.

[Tauromachos]

Its bullshit Albos are the only Balkan group which is noteable close to the Mainland Greeks now why
are both so close to Italians?

Whats true is that before the Medieval and some additional migrations of Balkan people into Greece Mainland Greeks would have been
even much closer to Greek Islanders but not all Balkan people who came to Greece were Slavs

[AncientGreek]

Its Albanians who are close to Greeks and Italians not the other way around

Albanians are closest to Tuscans and Central Italians
Most Mainland Greeks to Central till South Italians and Greek Islanders to South Italians and Sicilians

The Sarno study to which the article this clown posted refers doesn't contradict what i have said here^

But having similar admixture is not good evidence of being related in the way that you are saying. If that was the case then European Jews, who cluster with southern Italians, are actually closely related to southern Italians? It's not necessarily true, genetic distance is a great tool but the issue in this region is that for all of us our major component is Early European Farmer, and exists in similar %, and that's why our distance to eachother is still low, no matter how we are shifted in various ways.

The study shows that through IBD sharing, which shows which groups share actual DNA with other groups (thus if there's actual recent genetic relationship), mainland Greeks and Albanians are relatives to each other, and not relatives to Greek islanders. Meanwhile, southern Italians, Greek islanders and Cypriots all IBD share with each other, which show they are related genetically.

Unfortunately, there aren't many possible other reasons for why this is the case, other than recent demographic events, which are highly likely as shown in scientific studies such as this one.

Now, you have people here denying reality, and coming up with conspiracies like they were shifted by Dorians much earlier. As I said before, Cretans and Dodecanese were both Dorian, and we don't have this high steppe admixture, and our major haplogroup is J2, not E-V13. So how do you explain those facts if the genetic shift occured earlier than Slavic invasion?

[brennus dux gallorum]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but the Frankish and Venetian contribution is very miminal compared to Slavic one.
Peloponnesians can be modelled as 65% Myceaneans and 35% Medieval Slavic. Early Slavs were similar to northern Slavs but not indentical because Northern Slavs have some Baltic and Germanic Admixture.
Given the fact that Albanians were 90% similar to Peloponnesians Greeks before entering Peloponnese it safe to assume that most of that 35% comes from Slavs themselves.

You don't burst any bubble as you obviously have no idea about the specific issue. At least one official published study has not spotted more than 15% Slavic admixture in peloponnese, so posting 30% and other similar percentages which hardly apply for northern Greece won't change reality

And where did i say that Frankish was above Slavic? Even if northwestern components are higher than northeastern components in most of Greece unlike balkans where noetheastern components dominates (let alone autosomal distances, with peloponnese being closer to central Italy than ANY Balkan region or country) i will give to slavs the most admixture

[brennus dux gallorum]

But having similar admixture is not good evidence of being related in the way that you are saying. If that was the case then European Jews, who cluster with southern Italians, are actually closely related to southern Italians? It's not necessarily true, genetic distance is a great tool but the issue in this region is that for all of us our major component is Early European Farmer, and exists in similar %, and that's why our distance to eachother is still low, no matter how we are shifted in various ways.

The study shows that through IBD sharing, which shows which groups share actual DNA with other groups (thus if there's actual recent genetic relationship), mainland Greeks and Albanians are relatives to each other, and not relatives to Greek islanders. Meanwhile, southern Italians, Greek islanders and Cypriots all IBD share with each other, which show they are related genetically.

Unfortunately, there aren't many possible other reasons for why this is the case, other than recent demographic events, which are highly likely as shown in scientific studies such as this one.

Now, you have people here denying reality, and coming up with conspiracies like they were shifted by Dorians much earlier. As I said before, Cretans and Dodecanese were both Dorian, and we don't have this high steppe admixture, and our major haplogroup is J2, not E-V13. So how do you explain those facts if the genetic shift occured earlier than Slavic invasion?

Ev13 is not Slavic nor Dorian, both Slavs and dorians and all indoeuropeans were STEPPE people autistic dumb, their non ie admixture comes from native people assimilation and steppe people COULD NOT be ev13, only R1 subclades are related to indoeuropean people

Nobody here denies the slavic among other (this other unavoidably includes later steppe Hellenic immigrations like dorians who brought fresh steppe admixture) contributions to mainland Greek dna (southern half of which is closer to central Italy than to albania or balkans, after all) this slavic contribution makes the difference between mainland Greece and northern shifted islands like lesvos, Cyclades, southern Ionian islands etc and if anybody denied the Slavic impact you could at least quote him

It's rather you the one who denies the fact that also an EXTRA levantine input that never existed in the mainland has always existed in dodecanese and is reflected in the difference between dodecanese and more northern shifted islands, at least that's all i say so far, otherwise Rhodes wouldn't have a single difference from lesvos, samothraki, naxos paros etc, but as you likely know it does plot southeast of them, even all of these islands dont have any recent exchange with the mainland recorded.

And also the one who tries to convince us that original dorians were j2 as if the came right from the middle east, and that north African originated ev13 is Slavic

[Tauromachos]

Ev13 is not Slavic nor Dorian, both Slavs and dorians and all indoeuropeans were STEPPE people autistic dumb, their non ie admixture comes from native people assimilation and steppe people COULD NOT be ev13, only R1 subclades are related to indoeuropean people



Ev13 is not Slavic nor Dorian, both Slavs and dorians and all indoeuropeans were STEPPE people autistic dumb, their non ie admixture comes from native people assimilation and steppe people COULD NOT be ev13, only R1 subclades are related to indoeuropean people


No the Dorians were Greek people and most probably a genetic mix of Neolithic-Paleolithic Greek-some Caucasus/North Iran and some Steppe/Yamnaya like the other Greeks they were not Steppe people themselves.

I agree Slavs were not EV13 but he is referring to South Slavs who would have had already EV13 admixture
He claims there was a mass intrusion or invasion of South Slavs into Mainland Greece lol

[Tauromachos]

But having similar admixture is not good evidence of being related in the way that you are saying. If that was the case then European Jews, who cluster with southern Italians, are actually closely related to southern Italians? It's not necessarily true, genetic distance is a great tool but the issue in this region is that for all of us our major component is Early European Farmer, and exists in similar %, and that's why our distance to eachother is still low, no matter how we are shifted in various ways.


Allow me to think that Greek Islanders and Mainlanders have more in common than Jews and Sicilians

Other than similar genetics they have common language,religion,culture,foods,history and ethnic identity as both were Greeks or Hellenic at least since the times of Homer.

Also history of Greek Islands and Mainland is closely interwoven from Ancient times throughout Byzantine till times of the revolutions and uprisings against the Ottoman empire

[AncientGreek]

Ev13 is not Slavic nor Dorian, both Slavs and dorians and all indoeuropeans were STEPPE people autistic dumb, their non ie admixture comes from native people assimilation and steppe people COULD NOT be ev13, only R1 subclades are related to indoeuropean people

Nobody here denies the slavic among other (this other unavoidably includes later steppe Hellenic immigrations like dorians who brought fresh steppe admixture) contributions to mainland Greek dna (southern half of which is closer to central Italy than to albania or balkans, after all) this slavic contribution makes the difference between mainland Greece and northern shifted islands like lesvos, Cyclades, southern Ionian islands etc and if anybody denied the Slavic impact you could at least quote him

It's rather you the one who denies the fact that also an EXTRA levantine input that never existed in the mainland has always existed in dodecanese and is reflected in the difference between dodecanese and more northern shifted islands, at least that's all i say so far, otherwise Rhodes wouldn't have a single difference from lesvos, samothraki, naxos paros etc, but as you likely know it does plot southeast of them, even all of these islands dont have any recent exchange with the mainland recorded.

And also the one who tries to convince us that original dorians were j2 as if the came right from the middle east, and that north African originated ev13 is Slavic

Do I have to show you again?

https://i.imgur.com/our5MNM.png

E-V13 peaks in Albania and northern parts of Greece, thus I am suggesting it is related to Illyrians and maybe possibly Thracians. I never said it is related Slavs, but even Slavs (e.g. Ukrainians) have more E-V13 than Cretans, Dodecanese islanders and even southern Italians!

Also, where is your proof that Dorians came from the steppe? This is another conspiracy theory with zero evidence. Not to mention, the most common haplogroup amongst southern Pelapponese (for example, Maniots), is again J2! Are you saying that Maniots are not the closest thing we have to a Doric people? :wink

Also, your racism is pretty apparent every single post you make. You claimed earlier I am an assimilated Levantine, and keep making random stuff about Cretans and Dodecanese being extremely Levantine while you claim Greeks from antiquity came mostly from the steppe, which is absolutely false. Just like Indo-European Anatolians, Indo-European Greeks had hardly any steppe admixture! If you have any evidence this was the case, show it, but you can't because no such evidence exists!

[AncientGreek]

Allow me to think that Greek Islanders and Mainlanders have more in common than Jews and Sicilians

Other than similar genetics they have common language,religion,culture,foods,history and ethnic identity as both were Greeks or Hellenic at least since the times of Homer.

Also history of Greek Islands and Mainland is closely interwoven from Ancient times throughout Byzantine till times of the revolutions and uprisings against the Ottoman empire

We're clearly related, just that in more recent times mainlanders are closer to their northern neighbours as proven by IBD sharing. That doesn't mean we aren't related at all, it's more about recent relations. The main thing is also culture, I agree.

[Tauromachos]

We're clearly related, just that in more recent times mainlanders are closer to their northern neighbours as proven by IBD sharing. That doesn't mean we aren't related at all, it's more about recent relations. The main thing is also culture, I agree.

Fuck their Northern neighbours!

[Rocinante]

Do I have to show you again?

https://i.imgur.com/our5MNM.png

E-V13 peaks in Albania and northern parts of Greece, thus I am suggesting it is related to Illyrians and maybe possibly Thracians. I never said it is related Slavs, but even Slavs (e.g. Ukrainians) have more E-V13 than Cretans, Dodecanese islanders and even southern Italians!

Also, where is your proof that Dorians came from the steppe? This is another conspiracy theory with zero evidence. Not to mention, the most common haplogroup amongst southern Pelapponese (for example, Maniots), is again J2! Are you saying that Maniots are not the closest thing we have to a Doric people? :wink

Also, your racism is pretty apparent every single post you make. You claimed earlier I am an assimilated Levantine, and keep making random stuff about Cretans and Dodecanese being extremely Levantine while you claim Greeks from antiquity came mostly from the steppe, which is absolutely false. Just like Indo-European Anatolians, Indo-European Greeks had hardly any steppe admixture! If you have any evidence this was the case, show it, but you can't because no such evidence exists!

The land of my grandfather is 5.56% of E-V13, nice.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Do I have to show you again?

https://i.imgur.com/our5MNM.png

E-V13 peaks in Albania and northern parts of Greece, thus I am suggesting it is related to Illyrians and maybe possibly Thracians. I never said it is related Slavs, but even Slavs (e.g. Ukrainians) have more E-V13 than Cretans, Dodecanese islanders and even southern Italians!

Also, where is your proof that Dorians came from the steppe? This is another conspiracy theory with zero evidence. Not to mention, the most common haplogroup amongst southern Pelapponese (for example, Maniots), is again J2! Are you saying that Maniots are not the closest thing we have to a Doric people? :wink

Also, your racism is pretty apparent every single post you make. You claimed earlier I am an assimilated Levantine, and keep making random stuff about Cretans and Dodecanese being extremely Levantine while you claim Greeks from antiquity came mostly from the steppe, which is absolutely false. Just like Indo-European Anatolians, Indo-European Greeks had hardly any steppe admixture! If you have any evidence this was the case, show it, but you can't because no such evidence exists!

Ok you are officially insane, right :D

Dorians and illyrians like all indoeuropeans came FROM UKRAINIAN STEPPES, and ALL linguists accept this theory and user fiechy had posted a study which proved that r1b and r1a were the only indoeuropean haplgroups in steppes, now if you see cpnsiparcy theories behind these facts like any scientist gives a f*ck about a dodecanese ta user it's your problem. Not to mention that northern Greece is dominated by r1a and most of south r1b not ev13, the latter is most common in central Greece

Regardless from being illyrians Greeks Iberians italics etc all indoeuropeans assimilated people with ev13 and j2 to different proportions depending upon how much of each haplogroup existed in an area before their invasions, and like you said DUMB only dodecanese has that low ev13, meanwhile other islands with equally zero contacts with slavs and zero recent mainland immigrations like lesbos naxos etc have higher ev13, which automatically debunks your already clueless by studies theories.

Yes mainland has slavic admixture but that is depicted on their difference with Cyclades, Ionian islands and north aegean in terms of northeast European autosomal components and higher slavic r1a than them, not in the difference with the already extra levantine mixed Rhodes due to extra geographical distance with mainland

[AncientGreek]

Ok you are officially insane, right :D

Dorians and illyrians like all indoeuropeans came FROM UKRAINIAN STEPPES, and ALL linguists accept this theory and user fiechy had posted a study which proved that r1b and r1a were the only indoeuropean haplgroups in steppes, now if you see cpnsiparcy theories behind these facts like any scientist gives a f*ck about a dodecanese ta user it's your problem. Not to mention that northern Greece is dominated by r1a and most of south r1b not ev13, the latter is most common in central Greece

Regardless from being illyrians Greeks Iberians italics etc all indoeuropeans assimilated people with ev13 and j2 to different proportions depending upon how much of each haplogroup existed in an area before their invasions, and like you said DUMB only dodecanese has that low ev13, meanwhile other islands with equally zero contacts with slavs and zero recent mainland immigrations like lesbos naxos etc have higher ev13, which automatically debunks your already clueless by studies theories.

Yes mainland has slavic admixture but that is depicted on their difference with Cyclades, Ionian islands and north aegean in terms of northeast European autosomal components and higher slavic r1a than them, not in the difference with the already extra levantine mixed Rhodes

You must be confusing the origin of language with genetic admixture. It really doesn't matter if Indo-European languages originated in the steppe, what matters is the impact they made to genetics (not as much as you keep saying), and that's why you're talking conspiracy theories. You also have no proof about Dodecanese always having 'extra levantine', firstly it would be extra Anatolian, secondly we had migrations from south west Anatolia so the admixture is not 100% the same as before. In fact, some of my distant relatives came from Anatolia, as you saw listed in my ancestry. So, you have no idea what you're talking about, because it doesn't matter if Slavs never went to islands, mainlanders who had already mixed did, it doesn't need to be through major migrations, any time a mainlander moved to an island he brought over extra steppe admixture. Over time, this can lead to the increase of steppe in all islands, no island is so disconnected that it recieved zero migration!

Lastly, there is a simple reason 23andme/AncestryDNA cannot tell the difference between Rhodians and southern Italians (both of us get ITALIAN on AncestryDNA and 23andme) and there is a simple reason mainlanders get BALKAN. According to the website, southern Italians share a rich genetic history with Greek islanders, meanwhile Greek mainlanders share genetic history with Balkans. But, these websites only look at last 500 years, as you know, so please mr. smarty tell me what this means? :rolleyes:

[brennus dux gallorum]

You must be confusing the origin of language with genetic admixture. It really doesn't matter if Indo-European languages originated in the steppe, what matters is the impact they made to genetics (not as much as you keep saying), and that's why you're talking conspiracy theories. You also have no proof about Dodecanese always having 'extra levantine', firstly it would be extra Anatolian, secondly we had migrations from south west Anatolia so the admixture is not 100% the same as before. In fact, some of my distant relatives came from Anatolia, as you saw listed in my ancestry. So, you have no idea what you're talking about, because it doesn't matter if Slavs never went to islands, mainlanders who had already mixed did, it doesn't need to be through major migrations, any time a mainlander moved to an island he brought over extra steppe admixture. Over time, this can lead to the increase of steppe in all islands, no island is so disconnected that it recieved zero migration!

Lastly, there is a simple reason 23andme/AncestryDNA cannot tell the difference between Rhodians and southern Italians (both of us get ITALIAN on AncestryDNA and 23andme) and there is a simple reason mainlanders get BALKAN. According to the website, southern Italians share a rich genetic history with Greek islanders, meanwhile Greek mainlanders share genetic history with Balkans. But, these websites only look at last 500 years, as you know, so please mr. smarty tell me what this means? :rolleyes:

Completely clueless, as always :D

The people who brought indoeuropean language to Greece were r1b and r1a, the people they assimilated were the neolithic farmers (j and e and i), logic says that the more south these indoeuropeans travelled the more neolithics and other natives they assimilated, until they arrived in the BOTTOM of their colonies which is Rhodes

23andme is a company, in myheritage on the other hand which as a company is even more popular Greek mainland is grouped with ITALY, NOT BALKANS, but even if we go by 23andme Cyclades and north Aegean are also BALKAN with extra southern Italian imput, meanwhile Ionian islands which were equally never affected by Slavs score almost as Balkan as mainland does. And at least Cyclades and north Aegean islands do not have any common genetic history with mainland, not in the last 500 but in the last 2500 years, except if for the first time you will being some evidence that these islands were really colonized by recent mainlanders instead of talking out of your a**

You keep putting all islanders into the same basket with Rhodes and kalymnos, if you knew a sit Sicily was a major colony of phoenecias

[AncientGreek]

Completely clueless, as always :D

The people who brought indoeuropean language to Greece were r1b and r1a, the people they assimilated were the neolithic farmers (j and e and i), logic says that the more south these indoeuropeans travelled the more neolithics and other natives they assimilated, until they arrived in the BOTTOM of their colonies which is Rhodes

23andme is a company, in myheritage on the other hand which as a company is even more popular Greek mainland is grouped with ITALY, NOT BALKANS, but even if we go by 23andme Cyclades and north Aegean are also BALKAN with extra southern Italian imput, meanwhile Ionian islands which were equally never affected by Slavs score almost as Balkan as mainland does. And at least Cyclades and north Aegean islands do not have any common genetic history with mainland, not in the last 500 but in the last 2500 years, except if for the first time you will being some evidence that these islands were really colonized by recent mainlanders instead of talking out of your a**

You keep putting all islanders into the same basket with Rhodes and kalymnos

Clearly they do, as they would not score BALKAN if they were disconnected since 600 AD. Also, I get matches from many different islands, so you don't know what you're talking about. Chios has even more west Asian than Dodecanese, but at same time score low Italian compared to Dodecanese. It's pretty clear to me ITALIAN score on 23andme/AncestryDNA is related to J2, while BALKAN score on 23andme is related to E-V13, as I see this pattern in all my matches. Now I do not understand why you can't understand how admixture can change in 1400 years, but if you believe that nothing has changed, I will just have to wait for ancient samples from correct time periods to shut you up.

[Tauromachos]

Completely clueless, as always :D

The people who brought indoeuropean language to Greece were r1b and r1a, the people they assimilated were the neolithic farmers (j and e and i), logic says that the more south these indoeuropeans travelled the more neolithics and other natives they assimilated, until they arrived in the BOTTOM of their colonies which is Rhodes


Greek language wasn't brought to Greece but was created or developed in Greece itself(and the Aegean)
I support Colin Renfrew and his theory an this matter

The oldest Greek language was Mycanaean,Mycanaeans had some Steppe ancestry but only a little it was a minority of their ancestry not
the main source

The more North the Greeks traveled the more Non Greek Northern Barbarian people they assimilated

[brennus dux gallorum]

Clearly they do, as they would not score BALKAN if they were disconnected since 600 AD. Also, I get matches from many different islands, so you don't know what you're talking about. Chios has even more west Asian than Dodecanese, but at same time score low Italian compared to Dodecanese. It's pretty clear to me ITALIAN score on 23andme/AncestryDNA is related to J2, while BALKAN score on 23andme is related to E-V13, as I see this pattern in all my matches. Now I do not understand why you can't understand how admixture can change in 1400 years, but if you believe that nothing has changed, I will just have to wait for ancient samples from correct time periods to shut you up.

What you believe is completely useless, as 23andme measures AUTOSOMAL dna not y haplogroups and once more, until you post historical evidence that most of Greek islands like naxos or lesvos or samothraki are balkan because of the last 1500-500 years and not because of less levantine admixtyre in antiquity you are CLUELESS

Yes j2 is related to "Italian" because as you probably know Sicily was a major colony of phoenecians in antiquity, and the more east you go to the island (which was colonized by Greeks ) the less dodecanese and levantine admixture you get and the more mainland admixture you get. On the contrary Palermo area which was completely phoenecian and didn't a single Greek colony scores identical to Rhodes.

Till you PROVE, with historical SOURCES the opposite, shut up

And once again idiot, nobody here denied Slavic and other admixture in mainland, but rather only you deny extra levantine admixture in Rhodes

[Tauromachos]

Only the West of Sicily was colonized by Phoenicians

All Sicilians have Ancient Greek ancestry but in East Sicily they don't have Phoenician

EV13 exists in Sicily too

[Tauromachos]

And once again idiot, nobody here denied Slavic and other admixture in mainland, but rather only you deny extra levantine admixture in Rhodes

The thing is Slavic admixture and influence is overestimated as fuck and unlike what people claim there has never been a Slavic invasion in all of Mainland Greece only some Slavic tribes like Bulgarians and Serbs who were disorganized and both culturally as also militarily far inferior to Byzantine Greeks tried and invaded or raided some territories in Northern Greece.

And there was not such a thing as extinction or a massive foreign intrusion into Mainland Greece wether one is talking about Slavs proper,
South Slavs or Allbos its all fairytales and propaganda

[Renekton]

Nationalism at its finest.

[Tauromachos]

Nationalism at its finest.

:clap2:

[Reis-i Cumhur]

No problem,According to Myheritage,That pontic greek is %100 Greek

[Renekton]

No problem,According to Myheritage,That pontic greek is %100 GreekStraight from the balls of Pericles

[Tauromachos]

Straight from the balls of Pericles

And you are straight from the balls of Edi Rama

[Tauromachos]

In my opinion most of that 35% comes from Slavs I could be wrong. Simple as that.

If in your opinion all of 35% in Mainland Greeks which is not from Mycanaeans is from Medieval Slavs you are
a Mega Idiot in my opinion

[Renekton]

One hypothesis is that prior to the Slavic invasions the populations of Crete and the other islands were much more similar to those of the mainland, since those invasions would have had more of an effect on the mainland. I think that's logical and supported by the evidence.

On the other hand, there were other migrations which might have differentially affected the mainland, such as the Goths or even any northern shifted "steppe" group. Then, the islands, being closer to Anatolia, might have a bit more of that ancestry, although mitigating against that is the fact that there has been constant and continuing contacts between the islands and many parts of the mainland.

So, I'm waiting for the ancient DNA.

If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at the thread on the recent paper on Greek genetics. Just use the search engine to find it.

[Tauromachos]

One hypothesis is that prior to the Slavic invasions the populations of Crete and the other islands were much more similar to those of the mainland, since those invasions would have had more of an effect on the mainland. I think that's logical and supported by the evidence.

On the other hand, there were other migrations which might have differentially affected the mainland, such as the Goths or even any northern shifted "steppe" group. Then, the islands, being closer to Anatolia, might have a bit more of that ancestry, although mitigating against that is the fact that there has been constant and continuing contacts between the islands and many parts of the mainland.

So, I'm waiting for the ancient DNA.

If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at the thread on the recent paper on Greek genetics. Just use the search engine to find it.

The recent paper on Greek genetics(Sarno) is not so recent most people know it and Sikeliot made a few threads about it


To let you know in case you think you discovered something no one ever saw before


Also Sarno doesn't claim Mainland Greeks share alot in common with Slavs not at all

[-Scar-]

You don't burst any bubble as you obviously have no idea about the specific issue. At least one official published study has not spotted more than 15% Slavic admixture in peloponnese, so posting 30% and other similar percentages which hardly apply for northern Greece won't change reality

And where did i say that Frankish was above Slavic? Even if northwestern components are higher than northeastern components in most of Greece unlike balkans where noetheastern components dominates (let alone autosomal distances, with peloponnese being closer to central Italy than ANY Balkan region or country) i will give to slavs the most admixture
That was my hypothesis. The study's result that you speak of is not an Earth orbits the sun scenario. While it proves that modern Peloponnesians cannot be essentially of Slavic ancestry but I seriously doubt a 7% population left hunderds of toponyms in the region. Thats less than the percentage of Muslims in France.

[kleenex]

The thing is Slavic admixture and influence is overestimated as fuck and unlike what people claim there has never been a Slavic invasion in all of Mainland Greece only some Slavic tribes like Bulgarians and Serbs who were disorganized and both culturally as also militarily far inferior to Byzantine Greeks tried and invaded or raided some territories in Northern Greece.

And there was not such a thing as extinction or a massive foreign intrusion into Mainland Greece wether one is talking about Slavs proper,
South Slavs or Allbos its all fairytales and propaganda

I've read at least two objective historical accounts of Slav incursions into Greece during the 6th c AD and it's real. The Melengi settled in Laconia and lived separately from the indigenous population but they did exist. Was it massive? Absolutely not. There were, however, Slavic villages in the Peloponnese throughout the middle ages.

[kleenex]

That was my hypothesis. The study's result that you speak of is not an Earth orbits the sun scenario. While it proves that modern Peloponnesians cannot be essentially of Slavic ancestry but I seriously doubt a 7% population left hunderds of toponyms in the region. Thats less than the percentage of Muslims in France.

Modern Peloponnesians are relatively close to Albanians and other non Slav Balkanites.

[Tauromachos]

That was my hypothesis. The study's result that you speak of is not an Earth orbits the sun scenario. While it proves that modern Peloponnesians cannot be essentially of Slavic ancestry but I seriously doubt a 7% population left hunderds of toponyms in the region. Thats less than the percentage of Muslims in France.

Toponyms don't matter these places didn't have only Slavic toponyms

I personally would abolish all Slavic toponyms and reintroduce the original Ancient Greek ones

What we are talking about here is that the whole of 35% non Mycanaean ancestry in modern Pelponnese Greeks is not all from Slavs
it would be to much

[Tauromachos]

Modern Peloponnesians are relatively close to Albanians and other minimaly Slav admixed Balkanites.

They are close to Italians and Albanians and almost no other Balkanites except of Albanians

[Roman-Anatolian]

Here is my MDLP K23b.

I am closer to Azov Greek than you. You sure you don't have any Turkish ancestry?

1 Azov_Greek_ @ 5.595373
2 Turk_Istanbul_ @ 6.999248
3 Turk_Aydin_ @ 7.191515
4 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 7.552398
5 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.985395
6 Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ @ 8.532290
7 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 10.336052
8 Turk_ @ 10.684715
9 Greek_ @ 10.742879
10 Cretan_ @ 11.149133
11 Greek_Athens_ @ 11.871713
12 Central_Greek_ @ 12.408091
13 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 12.950331
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 13.039809
15 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 13.270164
16 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 13.496339
17 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 13.591235
18 Italian_South_ @ 13.659225
19 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 13.883714
20 Ashkenazi_ @ 13.902244

Can you show your k36 map?