Pontic Greek Gedmatch results

[Roman-Anatolian]

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent1
West_Asian32.152
East_Med28.153
West_Med14.664
North_Atlantic11.065
Baltic9.116
Red_Sea4.24

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish @ 9.151875
2 Azeri @ 13.509718
3 Armenian @ 15.539351
4 Georgian_Jewish @ 16.328678
5 Kurdish @ 17.188620
6 Kumyk @ 17.545097
7 Assyrian @ 17.746841
8 Central_Greek @ 19.051550
9 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.330618
10 Iranian @ 19.457731
11 South_Italian @ 20.411077
12 East_Sicilian @ 20.448992
13 Cyprian @ 20.456379
14 Syrian @ 21.160980
15 Kurdish_Jewish @ 21.192333
16 Adygei @ 21.207352
17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 21.217182
18 Iranian_Jewish @ 21.410467
19 Balkar @ 21.550978
20 Kabardin @ 22.536959

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Georgian @ 2.857617


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Georgian +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% Italian_Jewish @ 2.708877


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + Central_Greek + Georgian + Georgian @ 2.571820
2 Georgian + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish @ 2.708877
3 Ashkenazi + Georgian + Georgian + Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.744284
4 Ashkenazi + East_Sicilian + Georgian + Georgian @ 2.819821
5 Adygei + Central_Greek + Georgian + Italian_Jewish @ 2.836796
6 Abhkasian + Bulgarian + Georgian + Italian_Jewish @ 2.857168
7 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Georgian + Georgian @ 2.857617
8 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Serbian @ 2.861964
9 Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian + Serbian @ 2.863045
10 Ashkenazi + Georgian + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.871546
11 Bulgarian + Georgian + Georgian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.914241
12 Abhkasian + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish @ 2.926794
13 Abhkasian + Ashkenazi + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.931496
14 Bulgarian + Georgian + Georgian + Italian_Jewish @ 2.937241
15 Abhkasian + Ashkenazi + Georgian + Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.982455
16 Abhkasian + Adygei + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish @ 2.983650
17 Adygei + Ashkenazi + Georgian + South_Italian @ 3.005709
18 Abhkasian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Lezgin @ 3.008298
19 Georgian + Georgian + Greek_Thessaly + Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.015269
20 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Hungarian @ 3.031418

Done.


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent1
Caucasian45.652
European_Hunters_Gatherers13.293
South_Central_Asian12.804
Near_East12.145
European_Early_Farmers11.826
North_African1.217
Melano_Polynesian1.03

Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Azov_Greek_ @ 6.396816
2 Turk_Istanbul_ @ 7.845534
3 Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ @ 8.510019
4 Turk_ @ 9.324220
5 Georgian_Jew_ @ 9.986519
6 Turk_Aydin_ @ 10.431210
7 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 11.287224
8 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 11.471070
9 Cretan_ @ 11.724682
10 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 12.665613
11 Turk_Adana_ @ 12.825653
12 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 13.058909
13 Greek_ @ 13.168218
14 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 13.768489
15 Armenian_ @ 13.825447
16 Greek_Athens_ @ 13.844134
17 Greek_Islands_ @ 14.487275
18 Italian_South_ @ 14.713580
19 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 14.859200
20 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 14.942644

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian_Arzni_ +50% Gagauz_ @ 3.572555


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_ +25% Lebanese_Druze_ +25% Slovenian_ @ 2.267985


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
1 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Lebanese_Druze_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.267985
2 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.351838
3 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Hungarian_ + Lebanese_Druze_ @ 2.388868
4 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Hungarian_Budapest_ + Lebanese_Druze_ @ 2.413494
5 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Druze_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.427147
6 Armenian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + North_German_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.432490
7 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Hungarian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 2.437151
8 Croat_BH_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.455466
9 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + North_German_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.470759
10 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Lebanese_Druze_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.477766
11 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Croat_BH_ + Greek_Smyrna_ @ 2.492383
12 Armenian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Slovenian_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.509398
13 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Croat_BH_ + Cypriot_ @ 2.510813
14 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Croat_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 2.543123
15 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Croat_BH_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 2.543406
16 Armenian_ + Austrian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.543798
17 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Druze_ + Hungarian_ @ 2.544716
18 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Croat_BH_ + Lebanese_Druze_ @ 2.560394
19 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Croat_BH_ + Cypriot_ @ 2.561988
20 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Czech_ + Lebanese_Druze_ @ 2.563687

Done.

[catgeorge]

Interesting - are both your parents from Pontus?

[Roman-Anatolian]

Yes, and i want you guys to explain a little bit what do you see because i don't understand much about it.

[catgeorge]

Yes, and i want you guys to explain a little bit what do you see because i don't understand much about it.

Nothing fancy about it based where your parents are from very high West Asian and East Mediterranean. More Greek shifted than Armenians and Georgians; Greek_Azov are old Greek stock living in the Crimea

[Konstantinos]

Hi! Can you specify the exact places in Pontus your ancestry is from? Because if you are 100% Pontic Greek your results are very refreshing news! I will also explain you more.

[Tauromachos]

I like this one
12 Armenian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Slovenian_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.509398

This one is also cool
14 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Croat_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 2.543123

[Roman-Anatolian]

From villages between Kerasounta and Nikopoli (Garasari) and from mother's side east region Trabzon

[Roman-Anatolian]

Hi! Can you specify the exact places in Pontus your ancestry is from? Because if you are 100% Pontic Greek your results are very refreshing news! I will also explain you more.

From villages between Kerasounta and Nikopoli (Garasari) and from my mother's side east region Trabzon

[Konstantinos]

From villages between Kerasounta and Nikopoli (Garasari) and from mother's side east region Trabzon

Ok here me out.

Greeks have a lot of variety. Pontic Greeks are the most outlying in the sense that they are the closest to Lazs and Armenians but they are distinct from them in the sense that they show "Mediterranean" shift. This situation is to be expected since Pontus is the farthest Greek region from the core and doesn't have land borders with any other Greek region, so the initial Greek colonizers couldn't be a lot since they have to have traveled by sea(as we also know through history). These colonizers quickly Hellenized the local population and developed the modern Pontic Greek profile.

Now so far the Pontic Greek results that floated around were much closer to Lazs and Armenians than yours. Essentially that means you show much more Mainland Greek shift. Since genetics is underdeveloped in Greece most results are provided by "barbarians" ;) It is my personal opinion(and only that, so I may well be wrong) that there's a big agenda towards Greeks. Your results are illuminating in that they are both very Mainland Greek shifted and at the same time show a Steppe affinity that is supposed to have been mostly introduced to Greeks through Slavic invasions. I have my strong doubts about that and am long in search of Asia Minor, and other non-core Greek areas' results to investigate that.

Be prepared to here stories how a "Slavic-influenced Mainlander Greek village" decided to migrate to your Pontic Greek villages and influence your results. If you have any questions I'm very happy to answer.

[Maintenance]

Nice results, welcome to the forum

[Dorian]

Done.

Kalos irthes file ,apo thessaloniki eisai na ypotheso?

[Roman-Anatolian]

Kalos irthes file ,apo thessaloniki eisai na ypotheso?

Ευχαριστώ. Από Θεσσαλονίκη είμαι ναι

[Leto]

Not a Greek myself but please post Dodecad K12b (not Oracle-4!).

[Roman-Anatolian]

Ok here me out.

Greeks have a lot of variety. Pontic Greeks are the most outlying in the sense that they are the closest to Lazs and Armenians but they are distinct from them in the sense that they show "Mediterranean" shift. This situation is to be expected since Pontus is the farthest Greek region from the core and doesn't have land borders with any other Greek region, so the initial Greek colonizers couldn't be a lot since they have to have traveled by sea(as we also know through history). These colonizers quickly Hellenized the local population and developed the modern Pontic Greek profile.

Now so far the Pontic Greek results that floated around were much closer to Lazs and Armenians than yours. Essentially that means you show much more Mainland Greek shift. Since genetics is underdeveloped in Greece most results are provided by "barbarians" ;) It is my personal opinion(and only that, so I may well be wrong) that there's a big agenda towards Greeks. Your results are illuminating in that they are both very Mainland Greek shifted and at the same time show a Steppe affinity that is supposed to have been mostly introduced to Greeks through Slavic invasions. I have my strong doubts about that and am long in search of Asia Minor, and other non-core Greek areas' results to investigate that.

Be prepared to here stories how a "Slavic-influenced Mainlander Greek village" decided to migrate to your Pontic Greek villages and influence your results. If you have any questions I'm very happy to answer.

thanks for the explanation

[Roman-Anatolian]

Not a Greek myself but please post Dodecad K12b (not Oracle-4!).

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:


#PopulationPercent1
Caucasus44.762
Atlantic_Med16.643
North_European14.94
Gedrosia13.155
Southwest_Asian10.456
Siberian0.1
Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance1Turkish (Dodecad)7.55
2Turks (Behar)9.69
3Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)14.24
4Cypriots (Behar)14.72
5Ashkenazi (Dodecad)15.6
6Greek (Dodecad)16.13
7Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar)16.32
8Armenian (Dodecad)16.53
9S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)16.54
10Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev)16.97
11Kumyks (Yunusbayev)17.05
12Sephardic_Jews (Behar)17.14
13Sicilian (Dodecad)17.21
14Georgia_Jews (Behar)17.31
15Armenians (Behar)17.76
16Lebanese (Behar)17.88
17Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar)18.27
18Assyrian (Dodecad)18.37
19Kurds (Yunusbayev)18.95
20Druze (HGDP)19.12

[Dorian]

Ευχαριστώ. Από Θεσσαλονίκη είμαι ναι

Xalara :p .. mporeis na steileis kai ena print me ta apotelesmata tis eterias pu kanes to test?kai an den exis thema kai ton ari8mo kit apto ged?

[AncientGreek]

Here's 3 Pontic Greek results to compare yourself with:



K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 38.70
2 East_Med 35.58
3 West_Med 18.40
4 Red_Sea 3.64
5 South_Asian 1.72
6 Baltic 1.12


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian @ 6.289687
2 Georgian_Jewish @ 9.545109
3 Assyrian @ 11.125278
4 Turkish @ 15.007093
5 Kurdish_Jewish @ 15.033145
6 Kurdish @ 15.684774
7 Iranian_Jewish @ 16.266092
8 Azeri @ 16.738693
9 Iranian @ 18.553295
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 18.772619
11 Cyprian @ 20.454453
12 Syrian @ 21.133085
13 Georgian @ 21.599726
14 Abhkasian @ 22.383163
15 Lebanese_Christian @ 23.394321
16 Lebanese_Druze @ 24.265882
17 Samaritan @ 25.017431
18 Kumyk @ 25.286268
19 Jordanian @ 26.052113
20 Adygei @ 26.360756

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Armenian @ 6.289687


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Armenian +25% Armenian @ 6.289687


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
1 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian @ 5.986174
2 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 6.289687
3 Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian @ 6.424035
4 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian @ 6.426075
5 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.474982
6 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian_Jewish @ 6.515115
7 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.521240
8 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Samaritan @ 6.557699
9 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.756998
10 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish @ 6.787026
11 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Samaritan @ 6.799429
12 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Cyprian @ 6.803900
13 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 6.831595
14 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.908654
15 Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian + Georgian @ 6.922985
16 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Samaritan @ 6.928933
17 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian @ 6.933951
18 Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian + Georgian_Jewish @ 6.970317
19 Abhkasian + Cyprian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.986102
20 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian @ 7.189176


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 54.14
2 South_Central_Asian 16.94
3 Near_East 11.37
4 European_Early_Farmers 9.08
5 North_African 3.19
6 Ancestral_Altaic 2.52
7 South_East_Asian 1.05


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian_ @ 4.010305
2 Armenian_Yerevan_ @ 4.644270
3 Assyrian_Arzni_ @ 5.980251
4 Turk_Trabzon_ @ 7.888226
5 Jew_Tat_ @ 9.286652
6 Kakheti_ @ 9.591674
7 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 11.902060
8 Georgian_Jew_ @ 12.186738
9 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 12.354530
10 Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 13.452407
11 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 13.508608
12 Georgian_ @ 13.787131
13 Adjara_ @ 13.951708
14 Iranian_Jew_ @ 13.968249
15 Druze_ @ 14.071890
16 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 14.156259
17 Turk_ @ 14.284597
18 Kurd_Jew_ @ 14.581248
19 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 14.582229
20 Georgian_Megrelia_ @ 15.072354

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Georgian_Laz_ +50% Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 2.827327


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian_Iraqi_ +25% Georgian_Laz_ +25% Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.122979


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Kakheti_ @ 1.882822
2 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Kakheti_ @ 1.982306
3 Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Georgian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 2.085008
4 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.093848
5 Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 2.094781
6 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.122979
7 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Georgian_ @ 2.127282
8 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.145178
9 Armenian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Kakheti_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.173483
10 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ + Jew_Tat_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.180669
11 Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 2.185769
12 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.189740
13 Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 2.193824
14 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Jew_Tat_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.202230
15 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.204411
16 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.211218
17 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Cypriot_ + Kakheti_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.212779
18 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ @ 2.224532
19 Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Jew_Tat_ + Kakheti_ @ 2.243445
20 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Kakheti_ + Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 2.245122




K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 37.72
2 West_Asian 36.16
3 West_Med 17.75
4 Red_Sea 4.19
5 South_Asian 2.53


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian @ 6.629165
2 Assyrian @ 8.473639
3 Georgian_Jewish @ 8.482493
4 Kurdish_Jewish @ 12.141055
5 Iranian_Jewish @ 13.363922
6 Turkish @ 14.596745
7 Lebanese_Muslim @ 15.889813
8 Kurdish @ 16.267735
9 Azeri @ 16.717989
10 Cyprian @ 17.702291
11 Syrian @ 18.478157
12 Iranian @ 18.571737
13 Lebanese_Christian @ 20.144566
14 Lebanese_Druze @ 20.958698
15 Samaritan @ 21.898411
16 Jordanian @ 23.320297
17 Georgian @ 24.474670
18 Abhkasian @ 25.322083
19 Palestinian @ 25.363461
20 Kumyk @ 27.071714

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Assyrian @ 6.262858


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Armenian +25% Cyprian @ 5.013129


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
1 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian @ 5.013129
2 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Lebanese_Christian @ 5.578046
3 Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian_Jewish @ 5.712426
4 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Lebanese_Christian @ 5.794393
5 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Samaritan @ 5.840582
6 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian @ 5.964724
7 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 6.080898
8 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.091724
9 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Cyprian @ 6.108112
10 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.157103
11 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian @ 6.176157
12 Abhkasian + Assyrian + Assyrian + Cyprian @ 6.228994
13 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Samaritan @ 6.253611
14 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Assyrian @ 6.262858
15 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.291294
16 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.420508
17 Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.433050
18 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Iranian_Jewish @ 6.434650
19 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Samaritan @ 6.488668
20 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Lebanese_Druze @ 6.505128


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 52.00
2 European_Early_Farmers 13.83
3 South_Central_Asian 13.03
4 Near_East 12.54
5 North_African 2.39
6 Ancestral_Altaic 1.98
7 East_African 1.25
8 European_Hunters_Gatherers 1.23


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian_ @ 8.133585
2 Armenian_Yerevan_ @ 9.337336
3 Assyrian_Arzni_ @ 9.532605
4 Jew_Tat_ @ 10.644639
5 Turk_Trabzon_ @ 10.864333
6 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 10.882206
7 Cypriot_ @ 11.069024
8 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 11.218547
9 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 11.248025
10 Druze_ @ 11.604825
11 Georgian_Jew_ @ 12.230444
12 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 12.504870
13 Turk_ @ 13.264520
14 Lebanese_Christian_ @ 13.625824
15 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 13.830999
16 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ @ 14.138474
17 Turk_Adana_ @ 14.214286
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 14.376375
19 Lebanese_Muslim_ @ 14.396746
20 Greek_Islands_ @ 14.416898

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot_ +50% Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.768249


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot_ +25% Kakheti_ +25% Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.846090


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Cypriot_ + Cypriot_ + Kakheti_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 2.846090
2 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Greek_Islands_ + Turk_Trabzon_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.100071
3 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Greek_Smyrna_ @ 3.128805
4 Armenian_ + Cypriot_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_ @ 3.133633
5 Cypriot_ + Greek_Islands_ + Kakheti_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.149122
6 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.151737
7 Cypriot_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Kakheti_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.172611
8 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Greek_Islands_ @ 3.190411
9 Armenian_ + Cypriot_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ @ 3.202142
10 Greek_Islands_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ + Turk_Trabzon_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.212856
11 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Turk_Trabzon_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.229591
12 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Greek_Islands_ @ 3.237927
13 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Greek_Smyrna_ @ 3.238434
14 Armenian_ + Cypriot_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ @ 3.247716
15 Armenian_ + Cypriot_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Imereti_ @ 3.255262
16 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Greek_Islands_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.257368
17 Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Greek_Islands_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.263945
18 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_Laz_ + Greek_Islands_ @ 3.271985
19 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Cypriot_ + Georgian_ + Greek_Islands_ @ 3.289513
20 Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Cypriot_ + Turk_Trabzon_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.293614




K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 38.40
2 East_Med 35.78
3 West_Med 15.37
4 Red_Sea 5.76
5 South_Asian 2.50
6 North_Atlantic 2.03


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian @ 3.077264
2 Georgian_Jewish @ 6.660838
3 Assyrian @ 8.554948
4 Kurdish_Jewish @ 12.343609
5 Kurdish @ 13.119132
6 Turkish @ 13.470516
7 Iranian_Jewish @ 13.506305
8 Azeri @ 14.413348
9 Iranian @ 15.842959
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 17.062016
11 Syrian @ 19.216080
12 Cyprian @ 20.141466
13 Georgian @ 21.243624
14 Lebanese_Christian @ 22.166580
15 Abhkasian @ 22.215517
16 Lebanese_Druze @ 22.552874
17 Samaritan @ 23.862658
18 Jordanian @ 24.197378
19 Kumyk @ 24.623646
20 Adygei @ 26.018410

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Armenian @ 3.077264


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Armenian +25% Armenian @ 3.077264


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
1 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 3.077264
2 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Lebanese_Christian @ 3.295868
3 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 3.362582
4 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish @ 3.410302
5 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Samaritan @ 3.444190
6 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 3.565735
7 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.863149
8 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Samaritan @ 3.869810
9 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian @ 3.959773
10 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian @ 3.999331
11 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.088834
12 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.171984
13 Abhkasian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.203393
14 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.255128
15 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.272798
16 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.343715
17 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.357713
18 Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian @ 4.369234
19 Abhkasian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Samaritan @ 4.395422
20 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Samaritan @ 4.402156


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 51.86
2 South_Central_Asian 17.83
3 Near_East 15.34
4 European_Early_Farmers 7.89
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 1.93
6 South_Indian 1.36
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.16


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian_Yerevan_ @ 3.853639
2 Assyrian_Arzni_ @ 4.320486
3 Armenian_ @ 4.478829
4 Jew_Tat_ @ 6.221745
5 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 9.504842
6 Georgian_Jew_ @ 9.896975
7 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 9.980587
8 Iranian_Jew_ @ 10.648477
9 Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 10.690228
10 Kurd_Jew_ @ 11.089573
11 Turk_Trabzon_ @ 11.696948
12 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 11.809486
13 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 11.881601
14 Kakheti_ @ 12.158937
15 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 12.480608
16 Druze_ @ 12.896173
17 Iraqi_Mandean_ @ 13.403806
18 Turk_Adana_ @ 13.701852
19 Uzbek_Tashkent_ @ 13.746014
20 Turk_ @ 13.930618

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_ +50% Assyrian_Arzni_ @ 3.600630


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_ +25% Armenian_Yerevan_ +25% Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.238957


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.218962
2 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.238957
3 Armenian_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.256274
4 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.344629
5 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.364773
6 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.384023
7 Armenian_ + Georgian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.401796
8 Armenian_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.404357
9 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.468905
10 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.489111
11 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.504131
12 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.504199
13 Armenian_ + Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.516182
14 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.523406
15 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Georgian_Megrelia_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.527549
16 Armenian_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.538926
17 Armenian_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Iraqi_Chaldean_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.547666
18 Armenian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Jew_Tat_ + Turk_Trabzon_ @ 3.554960
19 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Assyrian_Iraqi_ + Georgian_Imereti_ + Iraqi_Jew_ @ 3.556914
20 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Armenian_Yerevan_ + Jew_Tat_ @ 3.557934


Your results are definitely not typical. Which service did you use to get your raw data? Mind sharing the results of that too?

[Jana]

Using 2 populations approximation:

1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Georgian @ 2.857617

You have strong Med shift, interesting. Basically half Kavkazian half east med/aegan
Ashkenazi are pretty close to south Italians and Greek Islanders.

[Leto]

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Your Vahaduo (http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/) K12b oracle

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 44.76
2 Atlantic_Med 16.64
3 North_European 14.9
4 Gedrosia 13.15
5 Southwest_Asian 10.45
6 Siberian 0.1

Distance to: RA
10.25542783 Greek_Cappadocia
10.56037878 Turk_Central_East
10.61542274 Turk_West_BlackSea
11.05397214 Turk_Central_West
11.17902947 Turk_East
11.36881700 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
11.61086560 Turk_Anatolia
11.90891263 Greek_Crete
12.29751601 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
12.99926536 Turk_South
13.43011914 Turk_Southeast
13.55075644 Turk_Southwest
13.63954178 Armenian_East
13.99021801 Azerbaijani_Turkey
14.41829394 Turk_Northwest
14.68859762 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
14.70312892 Karachay
14.77776708 Azerbaijani
14.98253650 Turk_East_Black_Sea
14.99037358 Armenian_West

Target: RA
Distance: 1.5352% / 1.53523748 | ADC: 0.25x
50.0 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
25.0 Greek_Cappadocia
14.2 Georgian_Gurian
10.8 Turk_Ahiska

Target: RA
Distance: 2.4768% / 2.47678602 | ADC: 0.5x
44.0 Greek_Cappadocia
36.4 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
19.6 Circassian

[AncientGreek]

You have strong Med shift, interesting. Basically half Kavkazian half east med/aegan
Ashkenazi are pretty close to south Italians and Greek Islanders.

He has high North Atlantic and Baltic neither of which the average Pontic Greek has. He actually has more Steppe ancestry than a Greek from Kos. I think one of his grandparents must be heavily Balkan shifted to get such a result...

[Annihilus]

Here is my MDLP K23b.

I am closer to Azov Greek than you. You sure you don't have any Turkish ancestry?

1 Azov_Greek_ @ 5.595373
2 Turk_Istanbul_ @ 6.999248
3 Turk_Aydin_ @ 7.191515
4 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 7.552398
5 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.985395
6 Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ @ 8.532290
7 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 10.336052
8 Turk_ @ 10.684715
9 Greek_ @ 10.742879
10 Cretan_ @ 11.149133
11 Greek_Athens_ @ 11.871713
12 Central_Greek_ @ 12.408091
13 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 12.950331
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 13.039809
15 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 13.270164
16 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 13.496339
17 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 13.591235
18 Italian_South_ @ 13.659225
19 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 13.883714
20 Ashkenazi_ @ 13.902244

[Rgvgjhvv]

A true Greek. Welcome file

[Jana]

Here is my MDLP K23b.

I am closer to Azov Greek than you. You sure you don't have any Turkish ancestry?

1 Azov_Greek_ @ 5.595373
2 Turk_Istanbul_ @ 6.999248
3 Turk_Aydin_ @ 7.191515
4 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 7.552398
5 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.985395
6 Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ @ 8.532290
7 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 10.336052
8 Turk_ @ 10.684715
9 Greek_ @ 10.742879
10 Cretan_ @ 11.149133
11 Greek_Athens_ @ 11.871713
12 Central_Greek_ @ 12.408091
13 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 12.950331
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 13.039809
15 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 13.270164
16 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 13.496339
17 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 13.591235
18 Italian_South_ @ 13.659225
19 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 13.883714
20 Ashkenazi_ @ 13.902244

He obviously doesn't, because he scores no Turkic input at all.

[Marmara]

You are not fully Pontic.

[Mejgusu]

You score a lot of north european. Maybe you have ancestors from todays greek or western turkey?

[xripkan]

snip

Very interesting results! Most Pontic Greek results we have so far are close to Caucasian groups. Yours are half Caucasian-like and the rest is similar to Greek Islander or maybe Smyrniot results.
However there is an explanation.
The Pontic Greek samples we have so far are from Trabzon area. We don't have samples from Western Pontus. Your Trabzon side seems typical. Your Western Pontus side is different but in fact may be typical for the region. We need samples from this area and it is very useful to see your results.
Could you also post your K15? I would like to see both your mixed mode (press oracle) and 4 (oracle 4)populations results.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Very interesting results! Most Pontic Greek results we have so far are close to Caucasian groups. Yours are half Caucasian-like and the rest is similar to Greek Islander or maybe Smyrniot results.
However there is an explanation.
The Pontic Greek samples we have so far are from Trabzon area. We don't have samples from Western Pontus. Your Trabzon side seems typical. Your Western Pontus side is different but in fact may be typical for the region. We need samples from this area and it is very useful to see your results.
Could you also post your K15? I would like to see both your mixed mode (press oracle) and 4 (oracle 4)populations results.

Beautiful

[Rocinante]

Arab?

[catgeorge]

He has high North Atlantic and Baltic neither of which the average Pontic Greek has. He actually has more Steppe ancestry than a Greek from Kos. I think one of his grandparents must be heavily Balkan shifted to get such a result...

Not necessarily true. Pontus and Principality of Theodoro which was a Greek/Gothic Crimean mix was a brother/sister type relationship - meaning alot of trade occured between these two people.

Not overly atypical at all - you see some Pontians that are fairly light and others that look full Iranic. They are as diverse as any other people on the planet.

[xripkan]

Beautiful

I find quite possible that western Pontic Greeks are similar to Cappadocian Greeks and close to Dodecanese.

[Roman-Anatolian]

Very interesting results! Most Pontic Greek results we have so far are close to Caucasian groups. Yours are half Caucasian-like and the rest is similar to Greek Islander or maybe Smyrniot results.
However there is an explanation.
The Pontic Greek samples we have so far are from Trabzon area. We don't have samples from Western Pontus. Your Trabzon side seems typical. Your Western Pontus side is different but in fact may be typical for the region. We need samples from this area and it is very useful to see your results.
Could you also post your K15? I would like to see both your mixed mode (press oracle) and 4 (oracle 4)populations results.

If you mean these results here

puntDNAL K15 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.51
2 Mediterranean 33.91
3 NE_European 16.27
4 SW_Asian 8.33


Finished reading population data. 157 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turk_Kayseri @ 7.830898
2 Armenian @ 13.553785
3 Kurdish @ 13.666525
4 Turk_Istanbul @ 13.681021
5 Assyrian @ 13.836654
6 Azerbaijani @ 15.074780
7 Cypriot @ 15.436791
8 Turk_Trabzon @ 15.461801
9 Sephardic_Jew @ 17.591301
10 Lebanese @ 17.870195
11 Balkar @ 17.986387
12 Kumyk @ 18.196001
13 Druze @ 18.607718
14 Sicilian @ 18.870451
15 Chechen @ 19.064428
16 North_Ossetian @ 19.118385
17 Palestinian @ 19.317678
18 Ashkenazy_Jew @ 19.516176
19 Iranian @ 20.141754
20 Greek_Central @ 20.492445

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazy_Jew +50% Abkhasian @ 3.668109


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Central +25% Assyrian +25% Georgian @ 1.763983


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 Croatian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.058715
2 Hungarian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.239543
3 Serbian + Abkhasian + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.244972
4 English + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.308802
5 Serbian + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.370612
6 Utahn_White + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.373172
7 Austrian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.396637
8 Tuscan + Lezgin + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.431575
9 Orcadian + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.466574
10 Slovenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.490400
11 Albanian + Lezgin + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.496147
12 Scottish + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.538998
13 French + Abkhasian + Turk_Trabzon + Druze @ 1.557125
14 South_German + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.561283
15 Croatian + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.570972
16 French + Armenian + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.571699
17 Greek_Thessaly + Lezgin + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.576627
18 Macedonian + Abkhasian + Cypriot + Armenian @ 1.583088
19 Croatian + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian @ 1.607055
20 South_German + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.613979

Done.

[xripkan]

If you mean these results here

puntDNAL K15 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.51
2 Mediterranean 33.91
3 NE_European 16.27
4 SW_Asian 8.33


Finished reading population data. 157 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turk_Kayseri @ 7.830898
2 Armenian @ 13.553785
3 Kurdish @ 13.666525
4 Turk_Istanbul @ 13.681021
5 Assyrian @ 13.836654
6 Azerbaijani @ 15.074780
7 Cypriot @ 15.436791
8 Turk_Trabzon @ 15.461801
9 Sephardic_Jew @ 17.591301
10 Lebanese @ 17.870195
11 Balkar @ 17.986387
12 Kumyk @ 18.196001
13 Druze @ 18.607718
14 Sicilian @ 18.870451
15 Chechen @ 19.064428
16 North_Ossetian @ 19.118385
17 Palestinian @ 19.317678
18 Ashkenazy_Jew @ 19.516176
19 Iranian @ 20.141754
20 Greek_Central @ 20.492445

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazy_Jew +50% Abkhasian @ 3.668109


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Central +25% Assyrian +25% Georgian @ 1.763983


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 Croatian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.058715
2 Hungarian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.239543
3 Serbian + Abkhasian + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.244972
4 English + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.308802
5 Serbian + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.370612
6 Utahn_White + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.373172
7 Austrian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.396637
8 Tuscan + Lezgin + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.431575
9 Orcadian + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.466574
10 Slovenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.490400
11 Albanian + Lezgin + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.496147
12 Scottish + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.538998
13 French + Abkhasian + Turk_Trabzon + Druze @ 1.557125
14 South_German + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian + Druze @ 1.561283
15 Croatian + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.570972
16 French + Armenian + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.571699
17 Greek_Thessaly + Lezgin + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.576627
18 Macedonian + Abkhasian + Cypriot + Armenian @ 1.583088
19 Croatian + Cypriot + Turk_Trabzon + Georgian @ 1.607055
20 South_German + Armenian + Turk_Trabzon + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.613979

Done.

Εννοουσα το Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15. Απλα αν μπορεις να ποσταρεις και τις δυο εκδοχες. Την πρωτη πατας το oracle και την δευτερη το oracle 4 οπως αυτο που ποσταρες.

[AncientGreek]

Not necessarily true. Pontus and Principality of Theodoro which was a Greek/Gothic Crimean mix was a brother/sister type relationship - meaning alot of trade occured between these two people.

Not overly atypical at all - you see some Pontians that are fairly light and others that look full Iranic. They are as diverse as any other people on the planet.

I've seen hundreds of Pontic Greek results on GEDMatch, this is the first time I've seen one score such high North Atlantic + Baltic, higher than Dodecanese islanders in fact. I'm almost certain he has a European grandparent, that's why I want to see the results to the commercial test he took.

[catgeorge]

I've seen hundreds of Pontic Greek results on GEDMatch, this is the first time I've seen one score such high North Atlantic + Baltic, higher than Dodecanese islanders in fact. I'm almost certain he has a European grandparent, that's why I want to see the results to the commercial test he took.

Pontians typically score Azov_Greek in almost every result and that alone scores high Baltic.

North Atlantic is another discussion which does make it interesting.

[AncientGreek]

I'm not sure which Pontians you've seen, but most I have kits of are closest to Armenian. This one from Imera, Georgia:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 52.79
2 Gedrosia 16.95
3 Southwest_Asian 13.69
4 Atlantic_Med 12.05
5 North_European 4.25


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian_Dodecad @ 3.751723
2 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev @ 4.585120
3 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 6.443458
4 Assyrian_Dodecad @ 6.823298
5 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 7.004762
6 Armenians_Behar @ 8.358053
7 Turks_Behar @ 10.078381
8 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 10.531536
9 Turkish_Dodecad @ 10.700020
10 Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 11.908551
11 Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 13.273272
12 Druze_HGDP @ 13.590092
13 Cypriots_Behar @ 15.089098
14 Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 16.721233
15 Lebanese_Behar @ 17.146748
16 Kurd_Dodecad @ 18.359600
17 Iranian_Dodecad @ 18.996466
18 Syrians_Behar @ 21.245981
19 Kumyks_Yunusbayev @ 21.920626
20 Iranians_Behar @ 22.631540

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenians_Behar +50% Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 3.621940


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenians_Behar +25% Cypriots_Behar +25% Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.378110


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
1 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.276105
2 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.378110
3 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.441347
4 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 1.527525
5 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 1.705791
6 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.850797
7 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.890053
8 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 1.906078
9 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranian_Dodecad @ 1.925614
10 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranian_Dodecad @ 2.010584
11 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.058552
12 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.061245
13 Armenians_Behar + Assyrian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.125730
14 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranians_Behar @ 2.126134
15 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.130968
16 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.138367
17 Armenians_Behar + Assyrian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.166177
18 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Cypriots_Behar + Iranian_Dodecad @ 2.175122
19 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.205736
20 Armenians_Behar + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.261011

Common pattern is Armenia + Armenia + Armenia + Cypriot prediction on Eurogenes & Dodecad.

[catgeorge]

I'm not sure which Pontians you've seen, but most I have kits of are closest to Armenian. This one from Imera, Georgia:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 52.79
2 Gedrosia 16.95
3 Southwest_Asian 13.69
4 Atlantic_Med 12.05
5 North_European 4.25


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian_Dodecad @ 3.751723
2 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev @ 4.585120
3 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 6.443458
4 Assyrian_Dodecad @ 6.823298
5 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 7.004762
6 Armenians_Behar @ 8.358053
7 Turks_Behar @ 10.078381
8 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 10.531536
9 Turkish_Dodecad @ 10.700020
10 Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 11.908551
11 Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 13.273272
12 Druze_HGDP @ 13.590092
13 Cypriots_Behar @ 15.089098
14 Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 16.721233
15 Lebanese_Behar @ 17.146748
16 Kurd_Dodecad @ 18.359600
17 Iranian_Dodecad @ 18.996466
18 Syrians_Behar @ 21.245981
19 Kumyks_Yunusbayev @ 21.920626
20 Iranians_Behar @ 22.631540

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenians_Behar +50% Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 3.621940


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenians_Behar +25% Cypriots_Behar +25% Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.378110


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
1 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.276105
2 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.378110
3 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 1.441347
4 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 1.527525
5 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 1.705791
6 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.850797
7 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.890053
8 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 1.906078
9 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranian_Dodecad @ 1.925614
10 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranian_Dodecad @ 2.010584
11 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.058552
12 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.061245
13 Armenians_Behar + Assyrian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.125730
14 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranians_Behar @ 2.126134
15 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_Behar + Assyrian_Dodecad + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.130968
16 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.138367
17 Armenians_Behar + Assyrian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.166177
18 Armenians_Behar + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Cypriots_Behar + Iranian_Dodecad @ 2.175122
19 Armenian_Dodecad + Armenian_Dodecad + Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.205736
20 Armenians_Behar + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.261011

Common pattern is Armenia + Armenia + Armenia + Cypriot prediction on Eurogenes & Dodecad.

Pontic Georgian mixes or Pontic Armenian mixes are not Pontic Greek. The one you posted is close to a Kurdish result.

Pontic Greeks almost always score Cyprian, Greek_Crete and Azov_Greek in their results. Besides Pontian results are largely hit and miss.

[Roman-Anatolian]

Εννοουσα το Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15. Απλα αν μπορεις να ποσταρεις και τις δυο εκδοχες. Την πρωτη πατας το oracle και την δευτερη το oracle 4 οπως αυτο που ποσταρες.

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 31.89
2 East_Med 27.79
3 Atlantic 13.14
4 West_Med 9.07
5 Baltic 8.49
6 Red_Sea 3.94
7 Eastern_Euro 3.7
8 North_Sea 1.99

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 9.57
2 Azeri 13.21
3 Armenian 14.24
4 Georgian_Jewish 14.34
5 Kurdish 14.68
6 Assyrian 15.87
7 Iranian 17.03
8 Central_Greek 17.21
9 Lebanese_Muslim 17.34
10 South_Italian 17.85
11 Cyprian 18.11
12 Kumyk 18.18
13 East_Sicilian 18.38
14 Italian_Abruzzo 18.51
15 Ashkenazi 18.99
16 Iranian_Jewish 19.47
17 Sephardic_Jewish 19.71
18 Greek 19.73
19 Syrian 19.74
20 Kurdish_Jewish 20.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 47.6% Adygei @ 6.96
2 58% Cyprian + 42% North_Ossetian @ 7.09
3 55.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 44.4% North_Ossetian @ 7.1
4 50.4% Adygei + 49.6% Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.1
5 52.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 47.1% North_Ossetian @ 7.22
6 54.8% Cyprian + 45.2% Adygei @ 7.24
7 51.3% Adygei + 48.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 7.33
8 56.6% South_Italian + 43.4% Georgian @ 7.34
9 53.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 46.3% Georgian @ 7.38
10 60.6% South_Italian + 39.4% Abhkasian @ 7.4
11 55.6% Cyprian + 44.4% Kabardin @ 7.41
12 57.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 42.3% Abhkasian @ 7.5
13 52% Algerian_Jewish + 48% North_Ossetian @ 7.53
14 55.3% South_Italian + 44.7% Adygei @ 7.58
15 51% West_Sicilian + 49% Georgian @ 7.65
16 53.7% Greek + 46.3% Georgian @ 7.67
17 58.9% Cyprian + 41.1% Chechen @ 7.7
18 55% West_Sicilian + 45% Abhkasian @ 7.7
19 57.8% Greek + 42.2% Abhkasian @ 7.76
20 61.8% Central_Greek + 38.2% Abhkasian @ 7.76


Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

oracle 4

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish @ 10.599535
2 Azeri @ 14.828458
3 Armenian @ 16.572374
4 Georgian_Jewish @ 16.621008
5 Kurdish @ 16.750233
6 Assyrian @ 18.482376
7 Iranian @ 19.278263
8 Central_Greek @ 19.946358
9 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.978722
10 South_Italian @ 20.640289
11 Cyprian @ 21.015095
12 Kumyk @ 21.040009
13 East_Sicilian @ 21.256687
14 Italian_Abruzzo @ 21.538033
15 Ashkenazi @ 22.024593
16 Syrian @ 22.441050
17 Iranian_Jewish @ 22.589724
18 Sephardic_Jewish @ 22.728846
19 Greek @ 22.934450
20 Kurdish_Jewish @ 23.633982

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Adygei +50% Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.894929


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Georgian +25% Greek +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.487044


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
1 Abhkasian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Greek @ 7.178179
2 Cyprian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + North_Ossetian @ 7.301996
3 Abhkasian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + South_Italian @ 7.368804
4 Abhkasian + Bulgarian + Georgian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 7.400661
5 Abhkasian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Italian_Abruzzo @ 7.424911
6 Abhkasian + Cyprian + Greek + Turkish @ 7.463977
7 Abhkasian + Bulgarian + Cyprian + Turkish @ 7.473678
8 Georgian + Georgian + Greek + Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.487044
9 Abhkasian + Greek + Kurdish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 7.487513
10 Abhkasian + Greek + Kurdish + South_Italian @ 7.492231
11 Armenian + Cyprian + Greek + North_Ossetian @ 7.495560
12 Cyprian + Greek + Kurdish + North_Ossetian @ 7.498627
13 Abhkasian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + West_Sicilian @ 7.500682
14 Abhkasian + Bulgarian + Georgian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.508333
15 Abhkasian + Assyrian + Greek + Greek @ 7.510170
16 Abhkasian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Sephardic_Jewish @ 7.519049
17 Abhkasian + Central_Greek + Georgian_Jewish + Greek @ 7.527063
18 Georgian_Jewish + Greek + North_Ossetian + Sephardic_Jewish @ 7.539021
19 Georgian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Greek @ 7.563488
20 Adygei + Georgian + Greek + Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.563562

Done.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Pontic Georgian mixes or Pontic Armenian mixes are not Pontic Greek. The one you posted is close to a Kurdish result.

Pontic Greeks almost always score Cyprian, Greek_Crete and Azov_Greek in their results. Besides Pontian results are largely hit and miss.

I agree. Besides I think xripkan is onto something. From what he understands we haven't seen Pontic Greek results west Western Pontus region (Giresun area) before, until now.

[AncientGreek]

Mixes? There are 100s of Pontic Greeks on GEDMatch with the exact same admixture, from Georgia, Turkey, you name it. OP is hugely abnormal and needs to share one of MyHeritage/23andme/FTDNA/AncestryDNA results before I beleive he doesn't have a non-Pontic parent/grandparent.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Mixes? There are 100s of Pontic Greeks on GEDMatch with the exact same admixture, from Georgia, Turkey, you name it. OP is hugely abnormal and needs to share one of MyHeritage/23andme/FTDNA/AncestryDNA results before I beleive he doesn't have a non-Pontic parent/grandparent.

And what do you expect? He shows "European" and you don't believe him? You sound like the police haha.

[AncientGreek]

And what do you expect? He shows "European" and you don't believe him? You sound like the police haha.

Very suspcious of this result. Doesn't line up with any results I've ever seen. Maybe the region he's from is different, who knows. Could also have a NPE or something... :coffee:

[Marmara]

Not overly atypical at all - you see some Pontians that are fairly light and others that look full Iranic. They are as diverse as any other people on the planet.

This has nothing to do with genetics. Those pontians with light features are still genetically Caucasian/Armenian. His results are very atypical for Pontian.

[xripkan]

snip

You have indeed higher East Med and Steppe/Indo-Europen ancestry than most Pontians we have seen. Your ancestry seems to be a mix of native Caucasian, Anatolian and Mycenaean-like/Hellenic with some extra Steppe/Indo-European input. You could be a mix of Pontian and Smyrniot or Islander.
Are you sure that all of your grandparents are from Pontus? I don't think it is imposible. As I told you we don't have many information about Western Pontus so we cannot tell for sure if these results are really atypical.

[AncientGreek]

OP share your K36 coordinates, they are very good at identifying Pontic Greeks.

For example, this guys run on standard K13 oracle:


K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 38.79
2 East_Med 34.91
3 West_Med 15.24
4 North_Atlantic 4.06
5 Red_Sea 3.40
6 Baltic 2.49


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian @ 4.964693
2 Georgian_Jewish @ 8.529721
3 Assyrian @ 10.774966
4 Turkish @ 12.709867
5 Kurdish @ 13.562288
6 Azeri @ 14.244275
7 Kurdish_Jewish @ 14.989817
8 Iranian_Jewish @ 15.985811
9 Iranian @ 16.981003
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 18.374598
11 Georgian @ 19.710947
12 Cyprian @ 20.630198
13 Abhkasian @ 20.914104
14 Syrian @ 20.964319
15 Kumyk @ 22.360847
16 Lebanese_Druze @ 23.676897
17 Adygei @ 23.750498
18 Lebanese_Christian @ 23.923542
19 Balkar @ 24.871002
20 Ossetian @ 25.504896

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abhkasian +50% Cyprian @ 4.245990


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Cyprian +25% Georgian @ 4.004831


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
1 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian @ 3.761790
2 Armenian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian @ 4.004831
3 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Cyprian @ 4.245990
4 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Lebanese_Druze @ 4.282678
5 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.335544
6 Abhkasian + Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.468407
7 Abhkasian + Cyprian + Georgian + Lebanese_Druze @ 4.586637
8 Abhkasian + Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian @ 4.635136
9 Abhkasian + Cyprian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.635209
10 Abhkasian + Cyprian + Cyprian + Georgian @ 4.734260
11 Armenian + Cyprian + Georgian + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.744938
12 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Samaritan @ 4.829273
13 Armenian + Assyrian + Cyprian + Georgian @ 4.952587
14 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 4.964693
15 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.982151
16 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.990697
17 Cyprian + Georgian + Georgian + Lebanese_Druze @ 5.048193
18 Abhkasian + Armenian + Armenian + Italian_Jewish @ 5.049139
19 Abhkasian + Abhkasian + Cyprian + Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.060164
20 Cyprian + Georgian + Georgian + Lebanese_Christian @ 5.091162

Done.

Elapsed time 0.1524 seconds.

But then on K36:


Distance to: PonticGreek_0057
5.28279282 Greek_Pontic
11.58782119 Caucasus_Jews
13.71781688 Turkey_average
14.66119368 Georgian_Laz
14.70483254 Turkish_Anatolia
14.76343456 Azeri_Jews
14.98752815 Assyrian
17.02445006 Armenian
17.52901309 Tatar_Crimea_Coast
17.95952394 Greek_Azov
18.25223000 Cyprus
19.30197658 Azeri_Kars&Igdir
19.42762724 Greek_Dodecanese
19.94122113 Greek_Chios
20.68232337 Greek_Ikaria
20.90315287 Greek_Kalymnos
20.96573395 Greek_Crete
21.12474615 Iraqi_Jews
21.89750899 Kurd
22.29146698 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro
22.29874884 Greek_Cyclades
22.43759791 Greek_Kythira
22.82541785 Azeri
23.31081509 Askhenazi
23.45286336 Italy_Calabria

[JohnnyP]

I have one old Greek from Macedonia region kit , but it seems Pontic.

"Greek Macedonian" results for puntDNAL K13

Kit Number: Z418934
Name: GreeceMaced1

1 Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.850202
2 Armenian @ 4.943121
3 Assyrian @ 6.664927
4 Lebanese_Druze @ 10.400541
5 Turkish_Kayseri @ 10.442624
6 Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 10.446073
7 Lebanese_Muslim @ 11.090278
8 Lebanese_Christian @ 11.850492
9 Abkhasian @ 11.862915
10 Cypriot @ 11.916451
11 Syrian @ 12.244077
12 Turkish @ 12.708711
13 Kurdish @ 12.729999
14 Iranian @ 16.302404
15 Ossetian @ 16.326971
16 Dagestan_Azeri @ 17.420746
17 Turkish_Aydin @ 17.674520
18 Jordanian @ 17.760265
19 Balkar @ 18.509897
20 Samaritan_Jew @ 18.515850

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.706778

[Rgvgjhvv]

Until he says or knows otherwise, we have to take his told ancestry seriously and consider that perhaps the regions part of his family is from is historically closer to Ionian Greek settlers. Perhaps the more east the more they are "Hellenized natives" but in the west are more "pure".

[Hapanuwa]

Very interesting results. It seems quite atypical. I guess that you have a Bulgarian/Balkan grandparent as well.

Could you provide us your results of the commercial DNA company you have tested with?

[Roman-Anatolian]

Very suspcious of this result. Doesn't line up with any results I've ever seen. Maybe the region he's from is different, who knows. Could also have a NPE or something... :coffee:

I should have given from the beginning more information about my ancestry so people don't get confused. Actually, I was born in southern Russia on the black coast sea from both Pontian parents from Kerasounta and Trapezounta as I mentioned but as far as I know one of my great grandmothers from my father's side was Russian. I live in Thessaloniki since my childhood. I didn't mention that because many people don't want to discuss things when they here about rosopontians. :) My DNA results from MyHeritage was 52.5 west Asia 46.3 Greek 1.2 Ashkenazi.

[Rgvgjhvv]

:lol:

[Roman-Anatolian]

Xalara :p .. mporeis na steileis kai ena print me ta apotelesmata tis eterias pu kanes to test?kai an den exis thema kai ton ari8mo kit apto ged?

File mou tha protimousa na mi steilw proswpika dedomena dimosia. Euxaristw pantws. Ta apotelesmata mou ta ekana apo to myheritage 52.5 dutiki Asia 46.3 Ellada kai 1.2 askenazi

[Dorian]

How the Russian grandpa fits with the myheritage result though?

[AncientGreek]

I should have given from the beginning more information about my ancestry so people don't get confused. Actually, I was born in southern Russia on the black coast sea from both Pontian parents from Kerasounta and Trapezounta as I mentioned but as far as I know one of my great grandmothers from my father's side was Russian. I live in Thessaloniki since my childhood. I didn't mention that because many people don't want to discuss things when they here about rosopontians. :) My DNA results from MyHeritage was 52.5 west Asia 46.3 Greek 1.2 Ashkenazi.

Okay, that makes sense, but MyHeritage didn't detect any East European, Balkan or Baltic? How many of your matches on MyHeritage don't appear to be Greek?

[Rgvgjhvv]

How the Russian grandpa fits with the myheritage result though?

Great grandma so maybe undetected? Is that possible?

[catgeorge]

Well, that wasn't too hard was it.

[AncientGreek]

Great grandma so maybe undetected? Is that possible?

I think MyHeritage is pretty trash at predicting admixture, it gives me 30% Sephardic Jew for example. :icon_rolleyes: If he has full Russian matches that are not extremely distant that would be enough proof of that kind of ancestry.

[Dorian]

Great grandma so maybe undetected? Is that possible?

I have no idea but with 1/8 ,I'd expect even some kind of noise..

[Rgvgjhvv]

I think MyHeritage is pretty trash at predicting admixture, it gives me 30% Sephardic Jew for example. :icon_rolleyes:

Wtf :lol:

[Roman-Anatolian]

Okay, that makes sense, but MyHeritage didn't detect any East European, Balkan or Baltic? How many of your matches on MyHeritage don't appear to be Greek?

All my matches

Εθνότητα

Τα εθνοτικά σας αποτελέσματα

Αριθμός ταυτίσεων

Δυτικοασιάτες

52,5%

286

Έλληνες και Νοτιο Ιταλοί

46,3%

241

Ασκενάζι

1,2%

22

Ανατολικοευρωπαίοι

0%

255

Βαλκάνιοι

0%

193

από τη Βαλτική

0%

133

Βορειοδυτικοευρωπαίοι

0%

132

Σκανδιναβοί

0%

124

Ιρλανδοί, Σκωτσέζοι και Ουαλοί

0%

99

Φιλανδοί

0%

93

Ιταλοί

0%

91

Άγγλοι

0%

69

Σεφαραδίτες Εβραίοι – της Βόρειας Αφρικής

0%

33

Ίβηρες

0%

27

Μεσοανατολοί

0%

25

Μιζραχί Εβραίοι - Ιρανοί / Ιρακινοί

0%

19

Κεντροασιάτες

0%

14

Μεσοαμερικανός και των Άνδεων

0%

4

Νοτιοασιάτες

0%

4

[Roman-Anatolian]

Okay, that makes sense, but MyHeritage didn't detect any East European, Balkan or Baltic? How many of your matches on MyHeritage don't appear to be Greek?

All my matches

Εθνότητα

Τα εθνοτικά σας αποτελέσματα

Αριθμός ταυτίσεων

Δυτικοασιάτες

52,5%

286

Έλληνες και Νοτιο Ιταλοί

46,3%

241

Ασκενάζι

1,2%

22

Ανατολικοευρωπαίοι

0%

255

Βαλκάνιοι

0%

193

από τη Βαλτική

0%

133

Βορειοδυτικοευρωπαίοι

0%

132

Σκανδιναβοί

0%

124

Ιρλανδοί, Σκωτσέζοι και Ουαλοί

0%

99

Φιλανδοί

0%

93

Ιταλοί

0%

91

Άγγλοι

0%

69

Σεφαραδίτες Εβραίοι – της Βόρειας Αφρικής

0%

33

Ίβηρες

0%

27

Μεσοανατολοί

0%

25

Μιζραχί Εβραίοι - Ιρανοί / Ιρακινοί

0%

19

Κεντροασιάτες

0%

14

Μεσοαμερικανός και των Άνδεων

0%

4

Νοτιοασιάτες

0%

4

[Rgvgjhvv]

I have no idea but with 1/8 ,I'd expect even some kind of noise..

His Greek % is very high. His MyHeritage results make sense in comparison to his GEDMatch but it's not adding up to the reported known ancestry now.

[Mejgusu]

I think MyHeritage is pretty trash at predicting admixture, it gives me 30% Sephardic Jew for example. :icon_rolleyes: If he has full Russian matches that are not extremely distant that would be enough proof of that kind of ancestry.

I never understood why they separate jewish as a different admix. Why they dont just score med/middle eastern instead of many different jewish admix branches...

[Roman-Anatolian]

I have no idea but with 1/8 ,I'd expect even some kind of noise..

Me too :confused:

[catgeorge]

Its a sum of parts of shared ancestry and combination of results. Some Turkish have high shared ancestry with native Anatoilians in Greece and will give "Greek" results. Same is true with Baltic and whatever.

[Hapanuwa]

Perhaps OP's Russian grandfather is of Caucasian descent in reality? That could explain the MH result

[catgeorge]

Perhaps OP's Russian grandfather is of Caucasian descent in reality? That could explain the MH result

Russopontians are at least 25% native Russian and different to Crimean Greeks.

[AncientGreek]

Me too :confused:

If you ever test again, do 23andme. It's the best for seeing admixtures in the correct proportions (mostly).

[AncientGreek]

I never understood why they separate jewish as a different admix. Why they dont just score med/middle eastern instead of many different jewish admix branches...

It's fine if they can accurately detect it (like 23andme with Ashkenazi and FTDNA with Sephardic), but MyHeritage can't and gives random Sephardic to non-Jews, so they should really avoid having it as a category until they can sort it out.

[Mejgusu]

It's fine if they can accurately detect it (like 23andme with Ashkenazi and FTDNA with Sephardic), but MyHeritage can't and gives random Sephardic to non-Jews, so they should really avoid having it as a category until they can sort it out.

I even dont understand this ashkenazi admix. They just middle easteners(or east med) with european admix. Someones near eastern admix could came from another reason. So some score up to 5% ashkenazi, wow that makes 3% east med...

[Rgvgjhvv]

If you ever test again, do 23andme. It's the best for seeing admixtures in the correct proportions (mostly).

Have you ever done 23andMe?

[Roman-Anatolian]

So is Gedmatch accurate or does it depend on the DNA company from which I will transfer my kit?

[Roman-Anatolian]

Mytrueancestry closest genetic modern population

1. Greek_Azov (7.913)
2. Turk (8.548)
3. Turkish (10.56)
4. Greek_Cretan (14.00)
5. Azeri (14.55)
6. Lebanese (15.08)
7. Jew-Uzbekistan (15.21)
8. Jew_Syria (15.25)

[AncientGreek]

So is Gedmatch accurate or does it depend on the DNA company from which I will transfer my kit?

It's fine, can you post your Eurogenes K36 table here?

[Roman-Anatolian]

It's fine, can you post your Eurogenes K36 table here?

Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions

Population
Armenian13.14
PctBasque1.11
East_Balkan4.55
East_Central_Euro4.35
PctEast_Med14.55
French0.51 PctIberian0.36
Italian16.05
Near_Eastern10.78
North_Caucasian16.64
PctNorth_Sea3.50
West_Caucasian11.99
PctWest_Med2.47 Pct

[Dorian]

But either way ,indeed the different Pontus pops should be studied more (among many other ones) soon ,because with the mixing nowadays both in homelands&diasporas ,you won't be able to figure out anything later.


For the sake of discussion,

First Ionian colony on Pontus was from Miletus to Sinope, about foundation of Ionian Miletus(originally Minoan according to tradition) Herodotus says they didn't bring women but took Carian ones instead ,how true is this I don't know (but I think the fact that such narration exists shows that assimilation wasn't that off obviously)..If it is , it could mean early "Pontians"{recent term btw extending to various lands} had some kind of different "shift" already ,I read once Milesians absorbed locals there too. Sinopians later expanded with Trapezouda ,Kerasouda,Kotyora etc in the coast.

So I think even If we had some ancient "Pontian" samples or some modern population with Ionian continuity ,they'd still be a lot different than one would expect.

[AncientGreek]

Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions

Population
Armenian13.14
PctBasque1.11
East_Balkan4.55
East_Central_Euro4.35
PctEast_Med14.55
French0.51 PctIberian0.36
Italian16.05
Near_Eastern10.78
North_Caucasian16.64
PctNorth_Sea3.50
West_Caucasian11.99
PctWest_Med2.47 Pct

K36 distances

https://imgur.com/XOeku0D.png

[Roman-Anatolian]

[QUOTE=AncientGreek;6677359]K36 distances

How did you do that

[AncientGreek]

[QUOTE=AncientGreek;6677359]K36 distances

How did you do that

This is done using Vahaduo calculator with K36 population references. I believe there is a chance 1 of your great grandparents came from Thrace/Macedonia:

https://imgur.com/N2SyeAK.png

[Roman-Anatolian]

[QUOTE=Roman-Anatolian;6677368]

This is done using Vahaduo calculator with K36 population references. I believe there is a chance 1 of your great grandparents came from Thrace/Macedonia:

https://imgur.com/N2SyeAK.png

I don't think so. I should already know that. My family has never mentioned such thing.

[Roman-Anatolian]

But either way ,indeed the different Pontus pops should be studied more (among many other ones) soon ,because with the mixing nowadays both in homelands&diasporas ,you won't be able to figure out anything later.


For the sake of discussion,

First Ionian colony on Pontus was from Miletus to Sinope, about foundation of Ionian Miletus(originally Minoan according to tradition) Herodotus says they didn't bring women but took Carian ones instead ,how true is this I don't know (but I think the fact that such narration exists shows that assimilation wasn't that off obviously)..If it is , it could mean early "Pontians"{recent term btw extending to various lands} had some kind of different "shift" already ,I read once Milesians absorbed locals there too. Sinopians later expanded with Trapezouda ,Kerasouda,Kotyora etc in the coast.

So I think even If we had some ancient "Pontian" samples or some modern population with Ionian continuity ,they'd still be a lot different than one would expect.

Yep. And don't forget the hellenistic kingdom of Bosporus. Colonised by Ionians and some Dorians too.

[AncientGreek]

[QUOTE=AncientGreek;6677385]

I don't think so. I should already know that. My family has never mentioned such thing.

It could just be a coincidence, but, let me tell you...

You scored 0 East European on K36, and anybody with a recent Russian ancestor would score East European, as that's the main category of a Russian. Now, you are also closer to northern Greeks in distance than to other mainland Greeks, which is also very strange. That's why I have a feeling you could have an ancestor from northern Greece, and your family doesn't even need to know about it. Maybe I'm wrong, could just be a bunch of coincidences adding up.

[catgeorge]

[QUOTE=Roman-Anatolian;6677397]

It could just be a coincidence, but, let me tell you...

You scored 0 East European on K36, and anybody with a recent Russian ancestor would score East European, as that's the main category of a Russian. Now, you are also closer to northern Greeks in distance than to other mainland Greeks, which is also very strange. That's why I have a feeling you could have an ancestor from northern Greece, and your family doesn't even need to know about it. Maybe I'm wrong, could just be a bunch of coincidences adding up.

His Russian grandparent could be 50% - 25% Russian. Russians don't score 100% East European they barely score 40%. It is possible he is 1/16th Russian due to dilution from his parents which would come up close to 4% EE then further dilution with Caucasian populations. Its not out of the ordinary. He scores very high west asia and east med and hightened Baltic which is normal for a person from his region. Nothing overly exotic about it at all.

[Faklon]

-Guy says he's fully from Pontus
-Shows some affinity to Greece proper unlike the results Durks spam and he still comes highly Anatolian
-This is a win, not a problem

[Bosniensis]

Another Korean sample, welcome to Turanic paradise... now you can learn throat singing and move to Pamir and Altaic mountains without being judged.


https://youtu.be/qx8hrhBZJ98

[Tauromachos]

Russopontians are at least 25% native Russian and different to Crimean Greeks.

Indeed they are often mixed with Rus and some even look Slavic lol

[brennus dux gallorum]

Ok here me out.

Greeks have a lot of variety. Pontic Greeks are the most outlying in the sense that they are the closest to Lazs and Armenians but they are distinct from them in the sense that they show "Mediterranean" shift. This situation is to be expected since Pontus is the farthest Greek region from the core and doesn't have land borders with any other Greek region, so the initial Greek colonizers couldn't be a lot since they have to have traveled by sea(as we also know through history). These colonizers quickly Hellenized the local population and developed the modern Pontic Greek profile.

Now so far the Pontic Greek results that floated around were much closer to Lazs and Armenians than yours. Essentially that means you show much more Mainland Greek shift. Since genetics is underdeveloped in Greece most results are provided by "barbarians" ;) It is my personal opinion(and only that, so I may well be wrong) that there's a big agenda towards Greeks. Your results are illuminating in that they are both very Mainland Greek shifted and at the same time show a Steppe affinity that is supposed to have been mostly introduced to Greeks through Slavic invasions. I have my strong doubts about that and am long in search of Asia Minor, and other non-core Greek areas' results to investigate that.

Be prepared to here stories how a "Slavic-influenced Mainlander Greek village" decided to migrate to your Pontic Greek villages and influence your results. If you have any questions I'm very happy to answer.

lol that's the most decent way someone has told a pontic Greek guy that Pontic Greeks are native west asians with an amount of Greek admixture :rotfl:

still very Greek mixed for a Pontic person

[Fedora]

You score higher North European than the average Anatolian and Pontic Greek. I've seen similar turkish results. Interesting, you should test your fully pontic side or both of your parents to get a better picture imo :D

[Tauromachos]

Another Korean sample, welcome to Turanic paradise... now you can learn throat singing and move to Pamir and Altaic mountains without being judged.


https://youtu.be/qx8hrhBZJ98

Pontic Greeks have nothing to do with this kind of stuff^

[Bosniensis]

Pontic Greeks have nothing to do with this kind of stuff^

he 1. Turk duh

oeoeoeoeoeooeoooooooo

[Roman-Anatolian]

Another Korean sample, welcome to Turanic paradise... now you can learn throat singing and move to Pamir and Altaic mountains without

Judged by whom?...bosniak?...what is that, a fart of Europe or something?

[Bosniensis]

Judged by whom?...bosniak?...what is that, a fart of Europe or something?

Better fart of Europe than fart of Mongolia.

[catgeorge]

Better fart of Europe than fart of Mongolia.

Pontians are indigenous to the area that existed when you were still swinging from trees.

[Bosniensis]

Pontians are indigenous to the area that existed when you were still swinging from trees.

If he is Greek so is every Turk in Turkey who scores 1. Turk

Is that fair?

[Mingle]

Instead of clicking on "Oracle-4", can you click on "Oracle" for K13? Just wondering what you get in the mixed mode over there.

[catgeorge]

If he is Greek so is every Turk in Turkey who scores 1. Turk

Is that fair?

Nope - its not his Turkish input. It's his shared ancestry with Turks in the area. Alot of you score Greek high on your lists does that make you Greek?

He is a Greek shifted Caucasian with hightened North European than a typical Pontian, thats what his results say not whether half of Turks in Pontus are Islamised Pontian Greeks.

[Konstantinos]

Very interesting results! Most Pontic Greek results we have so far are close to Caucasian groups. Yours are half Caucasian-like and the rest is similar to Greek Islander or maybe Smyrniot results.
However there is an explanation.
The Pontic Greek samples we have so far are from Trabzon area. We don't have samples from Western Pontus. Your Trabzon side seems typical. Your Western Pontus side is different but in fact may be typical for the region. We need samples from this area and it is very useful to see your results.
Could you also post your K15? I would like to see both your mixed mode (press oracle) and 4 (oracle 4)populations results.

The most notable part of his results is the "northern" scores. If Greeks from Asia Minor and Western Pontus score like that, it was present in Greece since antiquity as obviously there weren't any Slavs there.

[Rgvgjhvv]

The most notable part of his results is the "northern" scores. If Greeks from Asia Minor and Western Pontus score like that, it was present in Greece since antiquity as obviously there weren't any Slavs there.

Ancient Greeks had steppe input anyway, you can find high Baltic/North european in Punjabis even. But trolls will always relate it to slavs

[Konstantinos]

Another Korean sample, welcome to Turanic paradise... now you can learn throat singing and move to Pamir and Altaic mountains without being judged.


https://youtu.be/qx8hrhBZJ98

Leave your Ottoman fantasies away from Greeks before you wet your bed.

[Konstantinos]

So to sum it up:

Roman-Anatolian has ancestry from Pontus, with rumoured 1/8 ancestry from Russia. That though fails to show up on tests so maybe he's full Greek(what a shame!). The only fact remains that he's 100% Pontic Greek until we have any further indications or have relevant results to compare.

You're a perfectly Greek Greek with results that fully range from Greek mainland to Greek Pontus.

[Roman-Anatolian]

So to sum it up:

Roman-Anatolian has ancestry from Pontus, with rumoured 1/8 ancestry from Russia. That though fails to show up on tests so maybe he's full Greek(what a shame!). The only fact remains that he's 100% Pontic Greek until we have any further indications or have relevant results to compare.

You're a perfectly Greek Greek with results that fully range from Greek mainland to Greek Pontus.


Thanks Konstantine. I was always wondering, are Pontians just hellenized or could we actually have some greek in our dna. If we trust the accuracy of these dna companies and programs we might have some. Who knows for sure? At least that is what we know from history.

[Fedora]

Thanks Konstantine. I was always wondering, are Pontians just hellenized or could we actually have some greek in our dna. If we trust the accuracy of these dna companies and programs we might have some. Who knows for sure? At least that is what we know from history.Testing relatives will give more clear answers

[catgeorge]

Thanks Konstantine. I was always wondering, are Pontians just hellenized or could we actually have some greek in our dna. If we trust the accuracy of these dna companies and programs we might have some. Who knows for sure? At least that is what we know from history.

Your closest matched population is Greek_Azov and are Greek people.

[Roman-Anatolian]

Your closest matched population is Greek_Azov and are Greek people.

Yes but not in all calculations though.

[AncientGreek]

Ancient Greeks had steppe input anyway, you can find high Baltic/North european in Punjabis even. But trolls will always relate it to slavs

Mycenaean I9010

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit Z290210

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.83
2 West_Med 31.92
3 North_Atlantic 10.52
4 West_Asian 8.82
5 Red_Sea 8.03
6 Baltic 2.73
7 Oceanian 0.86
8 Sub-Saharan 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 9.09
2 Italian_Jewish 11.1
3 Sephardic_Jewish 12.52
4 South_Italian 12.69
5 Tunisian_Jewish 13.58
6 Libyan_Jewish 13.84
7 East_Sicilian 14.48
8 Ashkenazi 14.92
9 West_Sicilian 15.32
10 Central_Greek 15.74
11 Cyprian 15.77
12 Italian_Abruzzo 18.49
13 Samaritan 20.47
14 Greek_Thessaly 20.62
15 Tuscan 20.64
16 Tunisian 21.09
17 Lebanese_Muslim 21.61
18 Lebanese_Christian 22.25
19 Syrian 22.3
20 Algerian 22.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.4% Samaritan + 43.6% Sardinian @ 3.2
2 54.3% Lebanese_Christian + 45.7% Sardinian @ 3.21
3 51.5% Lebanese_Druze + 48.5% Sardinian @ 4.42
4 63.3% Cyprian + 36.7% Sardinian @ 4.96
5 52.5% Palestinian + 47.5% Sardinian @ 5.47
6 78.9% Algerian_Jewish + 21.1% Sardinian @ 5.98
7 68% Tunisian_Jewish + 32% Sardinian @ 6.36
8 55.3% Lebanese_Muslim + 44.7% Sardinian @ 6.49
9 52.1% Jordanian + 47.9% Sardinian @ 6.63
10 67.9% Libyan_Jewish + 32.1% Sardinian @ 6.87
11 54.5% Syrian + 45.5% Sardinian @ 6.95
12 75.2% Italian_Jewish + 24.8% Sardinian @ 7.36
13 52.6% Sardinian + 47.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 7.65
14 53.2% Sardinian + 46.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 7.76
15 72.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 27.9% Sardinian @ 7.85
16 50.6% Bedouin + 49.4% Sardinian @ 8.21
17 57.9% Sardinian + 42.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 8.38
18 97.6% Algerian_Jewish + 2.4% French_Basque @ 9.02
19 98.2% Algerian_Jewish + 1.8% Southwest_French @ 9.07
20 98.4% Algerian_Jewish + 1.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 9.08

Greek from Kos

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit *redacted*

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.8
2 West_Med 23.88
3 West_Asian 16.11
4 North_Atlantic 9.48
5 Baltic 6.09
6 Red_Sea 5.67
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Sub-Saharan 0.94
9 Oceanian 0.86
10 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 7.09
2 South_Italian 7.45
3 Cyprian 8.55
4 Italian_Jewish 8.59
5 Sephardic_Jewish 8.74
6 East_Sicilian 9.06
7 Ashkenazi 9.65
8 Central_Greek 9.69
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.44
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.3
11 West_Sicilian 12.83
12 Italian_Abruzzo 13.83
13 Lebanese_Muslim 14.05
14 Syrian 15.62
15 Samaritan 16.04
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.12
17 Lebanese_Christian 17.02
18 Lebanese_Druze 18.24
19 Turkish 18.59
20 Jordanian 18.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.8% Cyprian + 16.2% Southwest_French @ 3.75
2 54.4% South_Italian + 45.6% Cyprian @ 3.8
3 76.9% Cyprian + 23.1% North_Italian @ 3.8
4 61.7% Cyprian + 38.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.91
5 53.9% Cyprian + 46.1% Central_Greek @ 3.95
6 83.5% Cyprian + 16.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.97
7 51.8% Cyprian + 48.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.99
8 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% Tuscan @ 4.05
9 82.3% Cyprian + 17.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.07
10 81.8% Cyprian + 18.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.12
11 82.4% Cyprian + 17.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.16
12 67.6% Cyprian + 32.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.19
13 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.23
14 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.23
15 82% Cyprian + 18% Portuguese @ 4.26
16 81.8% Cyprian + 18.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.27
17 81.9% Cyprian + 18.1% Sardinian @ 4.28
18 83.9% Cyprian + 16.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.29
19 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.31
20 87.1% Cyprian + 12.9% French_Basque @ 4.34

:roll eyes

Mycenaean steppe admixture had insignificant amount of 'Baltic'. Most modern Dodecanese islanders score more Baltic than ancient Greeks. Baltic didn't come out of nowhere, and it didn't come from adjacent populations (Italy, West Asia) as they too had no Baltic. So where do you propose it came from? Do you think it appeared out of thin air? :coffee:

[Mingle]

Ancient Greeks had steppe input anyway, you can find high Baltic/North european in Punjabis even. But trolls will always relate it to slavs

Except that Y-DNA has also proven there was Slavic input.

[Tauromachos]

Ancient Greeks had steppe input anyway, you can find high Baltic/North european in Punjabis even. But trolls will always relate it to slavs

This^

[Tauromachos]

Mycenaean I9010

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit Z290210

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.83
2 West_Med 31.92
3 North_Atlantic 10.52
4 West_Asian 8.82
5 Red_Sea 8.03
6 Baltic 2.73
7 Oceanian 0.86
8 Sub-Saharan 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 9.09
2 Italian_Jewish 11.1
3 Sephardic_Jewish 12.52
4 South_Italian 12.69
5 Tunisian_Jewish 13.58
6 Libyan_Jewish 13.84
7 East_Sicilian 14.48
8 Ashkenazi 14.92
9 West_Sicilian 15.32
10 Central_Greek 15.74
11 Cyprian 15.77
12 Italian_Abruzzo 18.49
13 Samaritan 20.47
14 Greek_Thessaly 20.62
15 Tuscan 20.64
16 Tunisian 21.09
17 Lebanese_Muslim 21.61
18 Lebanese_Christian 22.25
19 Syrian 22.3
20 Algerian 22.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.4% Samaritan + 43.6% Sardinian @ 3.2
2 54.3% Lebanese_Christian + 45.7% Sardinian @ 3.21
3 51.5% Lebanese_Druze + 48.5% Sardinian @ 4.42
4 63.3% Cyprian + 36.7% Sardinian @ 4.96
5 52.5% Palestinian + 47.5% Sardinian @ 5.47
6 78.9% Algerian_Jewish + 21.1% Sardinian @ 5.98
7 68% Tunisian_Jewish + 32% Sardinian @ 6.36
8 55.3% Lebanese_Muslim + 44.7% Sardinian @ 6.49
9 52.1% Jordanian + 47.9% Sardinian @ 6.63
10 67.9% Libyan_Jewish + 32.1% Sardinian @ 6.87
11 54.5% Syrian + 45.5% Sardinian @ 6.95
12 75.2% Italian_Jewish + 24.8% Sardinian @ 7.36
13 52.6% Sardinian + 47.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 7.65
14 53.2% Sardinian + 46.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 7.76
15 72.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 27.9% Sardinian @ 7.85
16 50.6% Bedouin + 49.4% Sardinian @ 8.21
17 57.9% Sardinian + 42.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 8.38
18 97.6% Algerian_Jewish + 2.4% French_Basque @ 9.02
19 98.2% Algerian_Jewish + 1.8% Southwest_French @ 9.07
20 98.4% Algerian_Jewish + 1.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 9.08

Greek from Kos

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit *redacted*

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.8
2 West_Med 23.88
3 West_Asian 16.11
4 North_Atlantic 9.48
5 Baltic 6.09
6 Red_Sea 5.67
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Sub-Saharan 0.94
9 Oceanian 0.86
10 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 7.09
2 South_Italian 7.45
3 Cyprian 8.55
4 Italian_Jewish 8.59
5 Sephardic_Jewish 8.74
6 East_Sicilian 9.06
7 Ashkenazi 9.65
8 Central_Greek 9.69
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.44
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.3
11 West_Sicilian 12.83
12 Italian_Abruzzo 13.83
13 Lebanese_Muslim 14.05
14 Syrian 15.62
15 Samaritan 16.04
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.12
17 Lebanese_Christian 17.02
18 Lebanese_Druze 18.24
19 Turkish 18.59
20 Jordanian 18.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.8% Cyprian + 16.2% Southwest_French @ 3.75
2 54.4% South_Italian + 45.6% Cyprian @ 3.8
3 76.9% Cyprian + 23.1% North_Italian @ 3.8
4 61.7% Cyprian + 38.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.91
5 53.9% Cyprian + 46.1% Central_Greek @ 3.95
6 83.5% Cyprian + 16.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.97
7 51.8% Cyprian + 48.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.99
8 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% Tuscan @ 4.05
9 82.3% Cyprian + 17.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.07
10 81.8% Cyprian + 18.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.12
11 82.4% Cyprian + 17.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.16
12 67.6% Cyprian + 32.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.19
13 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.23
14 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.23
15 82% Cyprian + 18% Portuguese @ 4.26
16 81.8% Cyprian + 18.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.27
17 81.9% Cyprian + 18.1% Sardinian @ 4.28
18 83.9% Cyprian + 16.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.29
19 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.31
20 87.1% Cyprian + 12.9% French_Basque @ 4.34

:roll eyes

Mycenaean steppe admixture had insignificant amount of 'Baltic'. Most modern Dodecanese islanders score more Baltic than ancient Greeks. Baltic didn't come out of nowhere, and it didn't come from adjacent populations (Italy, West Asia) as they too had no Baltic. So where do you propose it came from? Do you think it appeared out of thin air? :coffee:

Scythians in Classical and Roman times also Byzantine Varangians maybe

Some came later from Slavs but more in Mainland Areas i doubt that any Slavs as a group large enough to be noticed made it to Dodecanese

[catgeorge]

Except that Y-DNA has also proven there was Slavic input.

There is no Polish nor Ukranian input in Greece other than recent migrants.

[Tauromachos]

There is no Polish nor Ukranian input in Greece other than recent migrants.

True

[catgeorge]

Myceneans

2 West_Med 31.92
3 North_Atlantic 10.52
4 West_Asian 8.82

West Asian input in Greece on Gedmatch is 15-20% - so it has doubled likely from Anatolia

[AncientGreek]

Scythians in Classical and Roman times also Byzantine Varangians maybe

Some came later from Slavs but more in Mainland Areas i doubt that any Slavs as a group large enough to be noticed made it to Dodecanese

Slavs never made it to Dodecanese obviously, but overtime mainland Greeks brought Steppe admixture over here. I mean, I don't see why they wanted to come here, but a few did obviously :p.

Anyways, somebody more knowledgeable than me needs to explain how the Kura-Araxes admixture of ancient Greeks disappeared and how the steppe (Yamnaya) magically increased:

https://imgur.com/NhRFzY6.png

[Rgvgjhvv]

Mycenaean I9010

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit Z290210

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 36.83
2 West_Med 31.92
3 North_Atlantic 10.52
4 West_Asian 8.82
5 Red_Sea 8.03
6 Baltic 2.73
7 Oceanian 0.86
8 Sub-Saharan 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 9.09
2 Italian_Jewish 11.1
3 Sephardic_Jewish 12.52
4 South_Italian 12.69
5 Tunisian_Jewish 13.58
6 Libyan_Jewish 13.84
7 East_Sicilian 14.48
8 Ashkenazi 14.92
9 West_Sicilian 15.32
10 Central_Greek 15.74
11 Cyprian 15.77
12 Italian_Abruzzo 18.49
13 Samaritan 20.47
14 Greek_Thessaly 20.62
15 Tuscan 20.64
16 Tunisian 21.09
17 Lebanese_Muslim 21.61
18 Lebanese_Christian 22.25
19 Syrian 22.3
20 Algerian 22.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.4% Samaritan + 43.6% Sardinian @ 3.2
2 54.3% Lebanese_Christian + 45.7% Sardinian @ 3.21
3 51.5% Lebanese_Druze + 48.5% Sardinian @ 4.42
4 63.3% Cyprian + 36.7% Sardinian @ 4.96
5 52.5% Palestinian + 47.5% Sardinian @ 5.47
6 78.9% Algerian_Jewish + 21.1% Sardinian @ 5.98
7 68% Tunisian_Jewish + 32% Sardinian @ 6.36
8 55.3% Lebanese_Muslim + 44.7% Sardinian @ 6.49
9 52.1% Jordanian + 47.9% Sardinian @ 6.63
10 67.9% Libyan_Jewish + 32.1% Sardinian @ 6.87
11 54.5% Syrian + 45.5% Sardinian @ 6.95
12 75.2% Italian_Jewish + 24.8% Sardinian @ 7.36
13 52.6% Sardinian + 47.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 7.65
14 53.2% Sardinian + 46.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 7.76
15 72.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 27.9% Sardinian @ 7.85
16 50.6% Bedouin + 49.4% Sardinian @ 8.21
17 57.9% Sardinian + 42.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 8.38
18 97.6% Algerian_Jewish + 2.4% French_Basque @ 9.02
19 98.2% Algerian_Jewish + 1.8% Southwest_French @ 9.07
20 98.4% Algerian_Jewish + 1.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 9.08

Greek from Kos

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit *redacted*

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.8
2 West_Med 23.88
3 West_Asian 16.11
4 North_Atlantic 9.48
5 Baltic 6.09
6 Red_Sea 5.67
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Sub-Saharan 0.94
9 Oceanian 0.86
10 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 7.09
2 South_Italian 7.45
3 Cyprian 8.55
4 Italian_Jewish 8.59
5 Sephardic_Jewish 8.74
6 East_Sicilian 9.06
7 Ashkenazi 9.65
8 Central_Greek 9.69
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.44
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.3
11 West_Sicilian 12.83
12 Italian_Abruzzo 13.83
13 Lebanese_Muslim 14.05
14 Syrian 15.62
15 Samaritan 16.04
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.12
17 Lebanese_Christian 17.02
18 Lebanese_Druze 18.24
19 Turkish 18.59
20 Jordanian 18.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.8% Cyprian + 16.2% Southwest_French @ 3.75
2 54.4% South_Italian + 45.6% Cyprian @ 3.8
3 76.9% Cyprian + 23.1% North_Italian @ 3.8
4 61.7% Cyprian + 38.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.91
5 53.9% Cyprian + 46.1% Central_Greek @ 3.95
6 83.5% Cyprian + 16.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.97
7 51.8% Cyprian + 48.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.99
8 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% Tuscan @ 4.05
9 82.3% Cyprian + 17.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.07
10 81.8% Cyprian + 18.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.12
11 82.4% Cyprian + 17.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.16
12 67.6% Cyprian + 32.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.19
13 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.23
14 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.23
15 82% Cyprian + 18% Portuguese @ 4.26
16 81.8% Cyprian + 18.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.27
17 81.9% Cyprian + 18.1% Sardinian @ 4.28
18 83.9% Cyprian + 16.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.29
19 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.31
20 87.1% Cyprian + 12.9% French_Basque @ 4.34

:roll eyes

Mycenaean steppe admixture had insignificant amount of 'Baltic'. Most modern Dodecanese islanders score more Baltic than ancient Greeks. Baltic didn't come out of nowhere, and it didn't come from adjacent populations (Italy, West Asia) as they too had no Baltic. So where do you propose it came from? Do you think it appeared out of thin air? :coffee:

I'm proposing that it 100% appeared out of thin air, yes.

[Konstantinos]

Thanks Konstantine. I was always wondering, are Pontians just hellenized or could we actually have some greek in our dna. If we trust the accuracy of these dna companies and programs we might have some. Who knows for sure? At least that is what we know from history.

Pontic Greeks have been Greek for 3000 years("θάλαττα θάλαττα"). They are as Greek as other Greeks. The question is do you have mainland ancestry? Yes you do but no harm if you didn`t.

[Konstantinos]

I see the Slavic agenda is well underway. Excellent. Of course noone cares to explain the complete lack of linguistic and cultural traces of Slavs in Greeks. Neither the simple fact that Greeks look clearly distinguishable from Bulgarians let alone Poles or Ukrainians. People know everything with almost no samples. Genetics means shit if they don`t allign with facts. Don`t forget Icelanders: they are much different than their ancestors because genetic drift.

Rant over.

[Pine]

You guys need to pick one: either he is what he says he is - Pontic mixed with Russian or he's what his genetic results show - Pontic mixed with mainlander/west Anatolian Greek. Currently, you're picking and choosing details from each narrative without a proper justification.

[AncientGreek]

I see the Slavic agenda is well underway. Excellent. Of course noone cares to explain the complete lack of linguistic and cultural traces of Slavs in Greeks. Neither the simple fact that Greeks look clearly distinguishable from Bulgarians let alone Poles or Ukrainians. People know everything with almost no samples. Genetics means shit if they don`t allign with facts. Don`t forget Icelanders: they are much different than their ancestors because genetic drift.

Rant over.

The problem is that you keep insinuating that ancient Greeks were more 'northern' shifted than they actually were. You do realize they came from Anatolia, right? And, their admixture was mostly Early Farmer mixed with some Kura-Araxes. Their steppe admixture was extremely minminal, so if we actually got Indo-European language from Yamnaya they didn't effect the admixture much of Greek or Anatolian cultures that picked up IE languages much at all.

Now, modern mainlanders except for Cretans and Greek islanders have completely lost the Kura-Araxes admixture and gained more Yamnaya admixture. When do you think this event occured? I know there is a big lack of ancient Greek samples, and if we have some from even the early AD period we'd be able to confirm or deny certain theories. But I don't know why you would be ashamed to have some slight South Slavic admixture anyways. Many Greeks have Albanian and Bulgarian ancestry, why do you not like the idea of that?

About language and culture - the people who moved into Greece were not 100% Slavs. They were our northern neighbours who already had some Slavic admixture, AKA south Slavs. You seem to think they are the same as a Ukrainian or something, but they're not. The admixture is similar to ours but lacking the Kura-Araxes as I showed before, now you need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories - mainland Greece was never isolated like Iceland so I'm not sure why you're making a comparison.

Honest question here, do you think Greek admixture remained the same during these events?

https://i.imgur.com/EYf0Gfv.gif
https://i.imgur.com/4gxJdOh.gif
https://i.imgur.com/V19gJzO.gif

I doubt it, but I'm open to hear why you don't believe admixture did not change when there is so much evidence it did.

[catgeorge]

The problem is that you keep insinuating that ancient Greeks were more 'northern' shifted than they actually were. You do realize they came from Anatolia, right? And, their admixture was mostly Early Farmer mixed with some Kura-Araxes. Their steppe admixture was extremely minminal, so if we actually got Indo-European language from Yamnaya they didn't effect the admixture much of Greek or Anatolian cultures that picked up IE languages much at all.

Now, modern mainlanders except for Cretans and Greek islanders have completely lost the Kura-Araxes admixture and gained more Yamnaya admixture. When do you think this event occured? I know there is a big lack of ancient Greek samples, and if we have some from even the early AD period we'd be able to confirm or deny certain theories. But I don't know why you would be ashamed to have some slight South Slavic admixture anyways. Many Greeks have Albanian and Bulgarian ancestry, why do you not like the idea of that?

About language and culture - the people who moved into Greece were not 100% Slavs. They were our northern neighbours who already had some Slavic admixture, AKA south Slavs. You seem to think they are the same as a Ukrainian or something, but they're not. The admixture is similar to ours but lacking the Kura-Araxes as I showed before, now you need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories - mainland Greece was never isolated like Iceland so I'm not sure why you're making a comparison.

Honest question here, do you think Greek admixture remained the same during these events?

https://i.imgur.com/EYf0Gfv.gif
https://i.imgur.com/4gxJdOh.gif
https://i.imgur.com/V19gJzO.gif

I doubt it, but I'm open to hear why you don't believe admixture did not change when there is so much evidence it did.

Thats not evidence.

It's like saying this is evidence of Yamnaya input

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Paleo-Balkan_languages_in_Eastern_Europe_between_5th_and _1st_century_BC.png

Thats just para politicking. Greek and Celtic expansion actually met.

[catgeorge]

You guys need to pick one: either he is what he says he is - Pontic mixed with Russian or he's what his genetic results show - Pontic mixed with mainlander/west Anatolian Greek. Currently, you're picking and choosing details from each narrative without a proper justification.

Its not that easy - he gets different results from different calculators but he is closer to Greek_Azov.

[Jana]

I see the Slavic agenda is well underway. Excellent. Of course noone cares to explain the complete lack of linguistic and cultural traces of Slavs in Greeks. Neither the simple fact that Greeks look clearly distinguishable from Bulgarians let alone Poles or Ukrainians. People know everything with almost no samples. Genetics means shit if they don`t allign with facts. Don`t forget Icelanders: they are much different than their ancestors because genetic drift.

Rant over.

https://www.google.hr/search?q=slavic+tribes+in+greece&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiekorWvKLpAhVPThUIHYlZCnYQ_AUoAXoECA4QA w&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=EHr3XDUd9dMm6M

I really don't understand why some Greeks deny well documented Slavic settlement in Greece.
Even to this day there are slavophone villages in northern Greece, after all that assimilation.

[catgeorge]

https://www.google.hr/search?q=slavic+tribes+in+greece&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiekorWvKLpAhVPThUIHYlZCnYQ_AUoAXoECA4QA w&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=EHr3XDUd9dMm6M

I really don't understand why some Greeks deny well documented Slavic settlement in Greece.
Even to this day there are slavophone villages in northern Greece, after all that assimilation.

Its not that we deny it - South Slavs are not actually Slavs themselves.

[Tauromachos]

https://www.google.hr/search?q=slavic+tribes+in+greece&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiekorWvKLpAhVPThUIHYlZCnYQ_AUoAXoECA4QA w&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=EHr3XDUd9dMm6M

I really don't understand why some Greeks deny well documented Slavic settlement in Greece.
Even to this day there are slavophone villages in northern Greece, after all that assimilation.

Yeah and only in Northern Greece realy ,there were no slavophone regions in the rest of Greece

Slavs left some admixture in Mainland Greece but they didn't have a massive impact everywhere neither did they invade or dominate whole of Greece for a long time if they would there would be no Greece today but it would be just another Balkan Slavic country like Croatia,Serbia or Bulgaria but its not

[Jana]

Its not that we deny it - South Slavs are not actually Slavs themselves.

Haha, keep coping :laugh:

[Leto]

Its not that we deny it - South Slavs are not actually Slavs themselves.
The people who invaded Greece in the middle ages would not have been like modern Bulgarians. But even today's Serbs for example are at least 50% Northeast European on average. Not to mention there are Bosniaks who are basically Ukrainian with one East Med grandparent or something like that.

[Jana]

Yeah and only in Northern Greece realy ,there were no slavophone regions in the rest of Greece

Slavs left some admixture in Mainland Greece but they didn't have a massive impact everywhere neither did they invade or dominate whole of Greece for a long time if they would there would be no Greece today but it would be just another Balkan Slavic country like Croatia,Serbia or Bulgaria but its not

They left significant impact, around 30% if we go by ancient samples and YDNA. But, let's wait for more early Slavic and ancient Greek samples to be more certain. :)

[catgeorge]

The people who invaded Greece in the middle ages would not have been like modern Bulgarians. But even today's Serbs for example are at least 50% Northeast European on average. Not to mention there are Bosniaks who are basically Ukrainian with one East Med grandparent or something like that.

Correct - you dont see Avar, Kipchak type phenotypes in North Greece.

[Tauromachos]

The people who invaded Greece in the middle ages would not have been like modern Bulgarians. But even today's Serbs for example are at least 50% Northeast European on average. Not to mention there are Bosniaks who are basically Ukrainian with one East Med grandparent or something like that.

Yeah and thus very different from Mainland Greeks even the North Eastern most ones

Sorry but there was no Slavic impact in Greece as there was in Balkan Slavic countries whatever Slavs at that time exactly were it should be obvious and not even a matter of debate

[Leto]

Correct - you dont see Avar, Kipchak type phenotypes in North Greece.
What do they have to do with Slavs?

[catgeorge]

They left significant impact, around 30% if we go by ancient samples and YDNA. But, let's wait for more early Slavic and ancient Greek samples to be more certain. :)

We barely get 7% EE and our samples that are shared with other Balkan people are generally at least 1000 years older.

[catgeorge]

What do they have to do with Slavs?

Because thats one of their main phenotypes. Like it or not. Thats a recent input in the Balkans from Slavo-Avar invasions.

[Tauromachos]

They left significant impact, around 30% if we go by ancient samples and YDNA. But, let's wait for more early Slavic and ancient Greek samples to be more certain. :)

Around 30% is exagerated not even in the parts of North Greece with higher Slavic

In Pelponnese its at best 14% or lower

You should go to Greece and visit once to constate that in crowds Greeks almost never look like Slavs
not even like Croatians,Serbs or Bulgarians who still feel more similar to us than other Slavic groups

[Jana]

We barely get 7% EE and our samples that are shared with other Balkan people are generally at least 1000 years older.

Please. I can't discuss with person who thinks Balkan on 23andme equals Paleo-Balkan xD
You have G25 with ancient samples, sorry.

[catgeorge]

Please. I can't discuss with person who thinks Balkan on 23andme equals Paleo-Balkan xD
You have G25 with ancient samples, sorry.

Just research y-full and shut up with your pan-slavism already. Greeks don't carry turanid type phenotypes that Vojnik for example carries.

[Leto]

Because thats one of their main phenotypes. Like it or not. Thats a recent input in the Balkans from Slavo-Avar invasions.
Kipchaks and Avars were Central Asian/Eurasian peoples, they weren't Slavs. Are you one of those Med supremacists who hate everything North of Greece? Even if other Orthodox nations. Remember Russia used to be viewed as the Third Rome after Byzantium fell apart.
I am a practicing Orthodox myself.

[Jana]

Around 30% is exagerated not even in the parts of North Greece with higher Slavic

In Pelponnese its at best 14% or lower

You're right it's lower. But, this show mainland Greeks more Paleo-Balkan than Greco-Roman genetically.
Check it out, using ancient samples only:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316531-Balto-Slavic-scale/page3

Target: Greek_Thrace
Distance: 3.3719% / 0.03371884 | ADC: 0.25x

42.8 Balkan
29.4 Greco-Roman
27.8 Slavic

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 1.2254% / 0.01225401 | ADC: 0.25x

48.2 Balkan
29.4 Greco-Roman
22.4 Slavic

Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.3211% / 0.01321126 | ADC: 0.25x

61.2 Balkan
19.6 Greco-Roman
19.2 Slavic

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 1.0292% / 0.01029166 | ADC: 0.25x

58.6 Balkan
30.6 Greco-Roman
10.8 Slavic

Target: Greek_Izmir
Distance: 1.0765% / 0.01076521 | ADC: 0.25x

53.0 Greco-Roman
37.0 Balkan
9.2 Slavic
0.8 Baltic

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.0445% / 0.01044522 | ADC: 0.25x

91.6 Greco-Roman
7.2 Slavic
1.2 Baltic

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 1.4910% / 0.01491038 | ADC: 0.25x

59.0 Balkan
36.2 Greco-Roman
4.8 Baltic

[catgeorge]

Kipchaks and Avars were Central Asian/Eurasian peoples, they weren't Slavs. Are you one of those Med supremacists who hate everything North of Greece? Even if other Orthodox nations. Remember Russia used to be viewed as the Third Rome after Byzantium fell apart.
I am a practicing Orthodox myself.

Then why all the Turanid phenotypes but somehow didnt make it into Greece?

[Jana]

Just research y-full and shut up with your pan-slavism already. Greeks don't carry turanid type phenotypes that Vojnik for example carries.

Vojnik looks Greek to me, lol. He is dinaro-med.

[Tauromachos]

Please. I can't discuss with person who thinks Balkan on 23andme equals Paleo-Balkan xD
You have G25 with ancient samples, sorry.

Sorry but majority of Greeks ancestry is a mix of Paleolithic Mainland Greek(what probably is counted as Paleobalkan and shared with people such as Albos) and Neolithic Greek,Aegean,Anatolian.

Its also wrong what the other Greek poster said that Ancient Greeks were almost exclusivly Neolithic they were a mix of Paleolithic and Neolithic plus some Steppe/Yamnaya admixture from the Bronze Age and than on but relativly low in quantity

[Renekton]

Sub :thumb001:

[catgeorge]

Vojnik looks Greek to me, lol. He is dinaro-med.

He looks Avar Kipchak to me no where near north Greek. He would be seen as a Slav.

[Jana]

Sorry but majority of Greeks ancestry is a mix of Paleolithic Mainland Greek(what probably is counted as Paleobalkan and shared with people such as Albos) and Neolithic Greek,Aegean,Anatolian.

Its also wrong what the other Greek poster said that Ancient Greeks were almost exclusivly Neolithic they were a mix of Paleolithic and Neolithic
plus some Steppe/Yamnaya admixture from the Bronze Age and than on but relativly low in quantity

Ok, now post models using ancient samples like I do to support your claims. Talking without any evidence is meaningless.

[Leto]

Then why all the Turanid phenotypes but somehow didnt make it into Greece?
I don't know much about taxonomy because I consider it bullshit for the most part but Mongoloid admixture is very low in Bulgaria and North Macedonia, 1% at most.

[brennus dux gallorum]

About language and culture - the people who moved into Greece were not 100% Slavs. They were our northern neighbours who already had some Slavic admixture, AKA south Slavs. You seem to think they are the same as a Ukrainian or something, but they're not. The admixture is similar to ours but lacking the Kura-Araxes as I showed before, now you need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories - mainland Greece was never isolated like Iceland so I'm not sure why you're making a comparison.


that's not true, they certainly had assimilated some natives of southern Balkans but the fact that several latin speaking cities (like tauresium) still existed in Balkan countries when Slavs invaded Greece shows that those slavs who invaded Greece were likely closer to proto-Slavs than modern south Slavic people are to proto-slavs.

as for the maps, the first is wrong, considering that Eastern Peloponnese wasn't occupied by Slavs (not that Slavs didn't emigrate there, they did but they didn't occupy the place) at the same time that the part of Epirus which has the most slavic toponyms in Greece is shown as "slavic-less"

Anyway, I think people always mention slavic admixture in Greece but usually forget "gasmuloi" of frankish era, who likely also brought some more steppe admixture

[catgeorge]

I don't know much about taxonomy because I consider it bullshit for the most part but Mongoloid admixture is very low in Bulgaria and North Macedonia, 1% at most.

Nonsense.

[Leto]

Nonsense.
Prove me wrong, show some samples. There are plenty of Bulgarians and North Macedonians on Gedmatch and G25, there are specific threads about them here. That data proves me right, though I don't even have an agenda here 'cause I'm not a Balkan Slav, they aren't my people.

[catgeorge]

Prove me wrong, show some samples. There are plenty of Bulgarians and North Macedonians on Gedmatch and G25, there are specific threads about them here. That data proves me right, though I don't even have an agenda here 'cause I'm not a Balkan Slav, they aren't my people.

Im not going to post the same example over and over again. South Slavs have Slavo-Avar Turanid input that North Greeks dont have. End.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Slavs never made it to Dodecanese obviously, but overtime mainland Greeks brought Steppe admixture over here. I mean, I don't see why they wanted to come here, but a few did obviously :p.

Anyways, somebody more knowledgeable than me needs to explain how the Kura-Araxes admixture of ancient Greeks disappeared and how the steppe (Yamnaya) magically increased:

https://imgur.com/NhRFzY6.png

for the record, Mycaeneans weren't even settled in Thessaly and Macedonia, let alone Thrace, meanwhile Peloponnese (part of mainland) has some Kura-Araxes, not significantly lower than the second mycaenean sample.

We need ancient samples from these northern parts of Greece to make a conclusion. On the other hand considering that 3 out of 4 Mycaenean samples have less of this admixture than Kos does, you do realize that Kos has additional native pre-greek admixture that did not exist among ancient mainlanders

[Tauromachos]

Ok, now post models using ancient samples like I do to support your claims. Talking without any evidence is meaningless.

My evidence is what studies have been made until now about Greek genetics that don't attest an enormous impact of Slavs
or 30% Slav genes in Greece the fact that Greeks resemble about 70% the Mycanaeans and are closest modern populations along with Italians,Albos,Cypriots

Also the paper on Balto Slav genetics which you yourself referred to in the past and which groups Greeks far away from
Slavic people outside the Balkan and Balts and also marks a clear separation between Balkanic Slavs and Greeks


And what i see and what i see when i'm in Greece is not Slavic looking people the phenotype of Greeks in crowds even for Mainland Greeks feels very different from any Slavic ethnic they simply don't look like Slavs as a whole ,every idiot can go to Greece and can see that for himself i have no reason to lie,people here can claim whatever they want it doesn't change it

[Leto]

Im not going to post the same example over and over again. South Slavs have Slavo-Avar Turanid input that North Greeks dont have. End.
Okay but that's a load of crap in my opinion. Slavic people are light with light hair and blue-gray eyes. Exactly what I look like. So if anything, Slavic influence would result in a higher frequency of Northern phenotypes and not "Turanid".
Slavs are more acceptable in international White Nationalist circles than Greeks and that is not my opinion or a jab at you whatsoever.

[catgeorge]

Okay but that's a load of crap in my opinion. Slavic people are light with light hair and blue-gray eyes. Exactly what I look like. So if anything, Slavic influence would result in a higher frequency of Northern phenotypes and not "Turanid".
Slavs are more acceptable in international White Nationalist circles than Greeks and that is not my opinion or a jab at you whatsoever.

I don't care what White Nationalist accept - Slavo-Avar Turanid input is non existent in Greek phenotypes.

West Asian Caucasian sure
East Med Mediterranean sure

Slavo-Avar Turanid and Turk - get the fuck out.

[Coolguy1]

Unfortunately, 95% of the people here are absolutely retarded, and come up with their own baseless numbers for Slavic admixture in Greece. If you want to get an accurate picture of the aforementioned admixture, using G25 would be your best bet. Below is a simple and precise model that works for mainland Greeks, using Slovakians as the group representing early Slavs. The addition of Syrian represents near eastern admixture that entered Greece. I am using them because I am suspecting that the original group were Greek speaking Christians from the Antioch area. UKR_Cimmerian represents any post Mycenaean native Balkan like stuff (Illyrian, Thracian, Dorian)

[1] "distance%=1.6568"

Greek_Central_Macedonia

Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,49.2
Slovakian,38.4
UKR_Cimmerian,10.8
Pulliyar,1.6

[catgeorge]

Unfortunately, 95% of the people here are absolutely retarded, and come up with their own baseless numbers for Slavic admixture in Greece. If you want to get an accurate picture of the aforementioned admixture, using G25 would be your best bet. Below is a simple and precise model that works for mainland Greeks, using Slovakians as the group representing early Slavs. The addition of Syrian represents near eastern admixture that entered Greece. I am using them because I am suspecting that the original group were Greek speaking Christians from the Antioch area. UKR_Cimmerian represents any post Mycenaean native Balkan like stuff (Illyrian, Thracian, Dorian)

[1] "distance%=1.6568"

Greek_Central_Macedonia

Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,49.2
Slovakian,38.4
UKR_Cimmerian,10.8
Pulliyar,1.6

Anyone can use models to suit their own outcomes, which is quite retarded.

[catgeorge]

https://i.imgur.com/xz3AZ23.png

[Rgvgjhvv]

I'm too dumb somebody help my brain cells

[Coolguy1]

Anyone can use models to suit their own outcomes, which is quite retarded.

No, a model has to fit statistically. The model above does exactly that. The fit is tight and it corresponds nicely with history. Most of what you and others post here comes straight out of your ass.

[catgeorge]

Above example show South Slavs are no where near Polish and Ukranian samples so they are Greek shifted as Greek cluster is firmly within the Italian cluster.

[Tauromachos]

Prove me wrong, show some samples. There are plenty of Bulgarians and North Macedonians on Gedmatch and G25, there are specific threads about them here. That data proves me right, though I don't even have an agenda here 'cause I'm not a Balkan Slav, they aren't my people.

Sorry but the purpose this thread was for was not to be invaded another time by TA Slavs at this time
it would be cool if you simply stop posting here let Greeks amongst each other discuss these matters

[catgeorge]

No, a model has to fit statistically. The model above does exactly that. The fit is tight and it corresponds nicely with history.

Corresponds nicely with your view on the world.

[Coolguy1]

Corresponds nicely with your view on the world.

I guess the thousands of Slavic placenames in Greece just sprung up out of nowhere?

[Coolguy1]

Corresponds nicely with your view on the world.

Double post

[AncientGreek]

for the record, Mycaeneans weren't even settled in Thessaly and Macedonia, let alone Thrace, meanwhile Peloponnese (part of mainland) has some Kura-Araxes, not significantly lower than the second mycaenean sample.

We need ancient samples from these northern parts of Greece to make a conclusion. On the other hand considering that 3 out of 4 Mycaenean samples have less of this admixture than Kos does, you do realize that Kos has additional native pre-greek admixture that did not exist among ancient mainlanders

The model isn't perfect so for some reason the Kura-Araxes admixure of I9010 is going into Iran_N and Levant_N instead. Kos are one of the most west Asian shifted out of all Greek islanders so of course them having elevated levels is not weird. I am not claiming that Dodecanese islanders are not shifted in different ways, they are mixed with Anatolians who might have resembled somethng like Cypriots but with less Levantine. Cretans are the ones that most resemble the original admixture (ignoring Calabrians, who could just be most similar through chance) but they also too are shifted with extra Steppe. Truth is, none of this matters, I just feel like some people here are claiming that ancient Greeks are super north shifted when they aren't. Also, the only haplogroups we found from ancient Greeks were J2 and G2, correct? We don't have many samples to go off, but when do you think E-V13 became the dominant haplogroup of mainlander Greeks?

[Leto]

Sorry but the purpose this thread was for was not to be invaded another time by TA Slavs at this time
it would be cool if you simply stop posting here let Greeks amongst each other discuss these matters
Okay, I agree with you.

[Renekton]

The results of OP test are typical for a Greek Pontic?

[Tauromachos]

I don't care what White Nationalist accept

:thumb001:


Slavo-Avar Turanid input is non existent in Greek phenotypes.

West Asian Caucasian sure
East Med Mediterranean sure


:thumb001:

[catgeorge]

I guess the thousands of Slavic placenames in Greece just sprung up out of nowhere?

Yes they have....

Just tell me how long it took Greeks in America to lose their Greek language - 20-30 years?

Does it mean they are English?

It's not black and white - South Slavs are very distant genetically to the Greek average.

[Coolguy1]

Yes they have....

Just tell me how long it took Greeks in America to lose their Greek language - 20-30 years?

Does it mean they are English?

It's not black and white - South Slavs are very distant genetically to the Greek average.

Thank you for the laugh. Believe what you'd like.

[catgeorge]

Thank you for the laugh. Believe what you'd like.

Kalomira is English.

[Tauromachos]

I guess the thousands of Slavic placenames in Greece just sprung up out of nowhere?

Yes you guess correct

[brennus dux gallorum]

The model isn't perfect so for some reason the Kura-Araxes admixure of I9010 is going into Iran_N and Levant_N instead. Kos are one of the most west Asian shifted out of all Greek islanders so of course them having elevated levels is not weird. I am not claiming that Dodecanese islanders are not shifted in different ways, they are mixed with Anatolians who might have resembled somethng like Cypriots but with less Levantine. Cretans are the ones that most resemble the original admixture (ignoring Calabrians, who could just be most similar through chance) but they also too are shifted with extra Steppe. Truth is, none of this matters, I just feel like some people here are claiming that ancient Greeks are super north shifted when they aren't. Also, the only haplogroups we found from ancient Greeks were J2 and G2, correct? We don't have many samples to go off, but when do you think E-V13 became the dominant haplogroup of mainlander Greeks?

Ev13 is not dominant in mainland only, but in all of Greece (aegean islands included) except for Macedonia and Crete, with the latter being the only one with J2 above all haplogroups

anyway, i am not aware about the ancient sample's accuracy to respond to this last one

but certainly Crete is the closest to mycaenean results, with higher steppe than dodecanese and lower than mainland

[Bosniensis]

Yes they have....

Just tell me how long it took Greeks in America to lose their Greek language - 20-30 years?

Does it mean they are English?

It's not black and white - South Slavs are very distant genetically to the Greek average.

Yes we are.

But remember that original autosomal composition of I2 people is Western Mediterranean like with Sardinians.

The fact we had to take Avar, Hun women as explained in our history books is another thing.

The reason why Greeks are genetically pure is because we fought in the north to repel invasions so you can live.

[catgeorge]

Yes we are.

But remember that original autosomal composition of I2 people is Western Mediterranean like with Sardinians.

The fact we had to take Avar, Hun women as explained in our history books is another thing.

The reason why Greeks are genetically pure is because we fought in the north to repel invasions so you can live.

We are not genetically pure - we have much to do with our neighbours which is natural.. people simply confuse genetic input with shared ancestry and use it as a political agenda instead of celebrating that shared ancestry.

[Jana]

My evidence is what studies have been made until now about Greek genetics that don't attest an enormous impact of Slavs
or 30% Slav genes in Greece the fact that Greeks resemble about 70% the Mycanaeans and are closest modern populations along with Italians,Albos,Cypriots

Also the paper on Balto Slav genetics which you yourself referred to in the past and which groups Greeks far away from
Slavic people outside the Balkan and Balts and also marks a clear separation between Balkanic Slavs and Greeks


And what i see and what i see when i'm in Greece is not Slavic looking people the phenotype of Greeks in crowds even for Mainland Greeks feels very different from any Slavic ethnic they simply don't look like Slavs as a whole ,every idiot can go to Greece and can see that for himself i have no reason to lie,people here can claim whatever they want it doesn't change it

Lol, hypothetical 70% wog and 30% Slavic group won't end up looking looking Slavic, that's for sure xD
Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo.

[Dorian]

Lol, hypothetical 70% wog and 30% Slavic group won't end up looking looking Slavic, that's for sure xD
Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo.

Same applies to illyroafram croatians ;) don't worry they don't look anglo(not even westmed :laugh: )

[Jana]

Same applies to illyroafram croatians ;) don't worry they don't look anglo(not even westmed :laugh: )

True, Croats don't look Illyrian just like Greeks don't look Slavic.
You are wogs.

[Dorian]

True, Croats don't look Illyrian just like Greeks don't look Slavic.
You are wogs.

lol no you just admitted wog phenotype=native illyrian in your case is dominant over slavic ,can't turn it around now...you owned yourself.

[Jana]

lol no you just admitted wog phenotype=native illyrian in your case is dominant over slavic ,can't turn it around now...you owned yourself.

No retard. Because if we look Illyrian you look Slavic :laugh:
Which you ofcourse don't, neither we do.

You simply don't have enough Slavic blood to look the part, neither we have enough Illyrian blood to look the part.
And yes, I still find it funny how badly Slavic you want to be. I understand it ofc, Slavs are absolutely best people in Europe, luckily I am one.

But if I weren't like you are not, I would secretly want to be one. Maybe in another life, dear.

[catgeorge]

No retard. Because if we look Illyrian you look Slavic :laugh:
Which you ofcourse don't, neither we do.

You simply don't have enough Slavic blood to look the part, neither we have enough Illyrian blood to look the part.
And yes, I still find it funny how badly Slavic you want to be. I understand it ofc, Slavs are absolutely best people in Europe, luckily I am one.

But if I weren't like you are not, I would secretly want to be one. Maybe in another life, dear.

Shove off Barbarian.

[Dorian]

No retard. Because if we look Illyrian you look Slavic :laugh:
Which you ofcourse don't, neither we do.

You simply don't have enough Slavic blood to look the part, neither we have enough Illyrian blood to look the part.
And yes, I still find it funny how badly Slavic you want to be. I understand it ofc, Slavs are absolutely best people in Europe, luckily I am one.

But if I weren't like you are not, I would secretly want to be one. Maybe in another life, dear.

You just project ,stop trying to "read" me with autistic fantasies ,you fail..we don't share worldview.

The point isn't about us or me ..but how you admitted that wog/afram genetics(like your native ones) are dominant over slavic ones yet you don't apply the same logic to your people.. cause you're such snowflakes that you escape basic genetic laws ,right?

[Konstantinos]

The problem is that you keep insinuating that ancient Greeks were more 'northern' shifted than they actually were. You do realize they came from Anatolia, right? And, their admixture was mostly Early Farmer mixed with some Kura-Araxes. Their steppe admixture was extremely minminal, so if we actually got Indo-European language from Yamnaya they didn't effect the admixture much of Greek or Anatolian cultures that picked up IE languages much at all.

Now, modern mainlanders except for Cretans and Greek islanders have completely lost the Kura-Araxes admixture and gained more Yamnaya admixture. When do you think this event occured? I know there is a big lack of ancient Greek samples, and if we have some from even the early AD period we'd be able to confirm or deny certain theories. But I don't know why you would be ashamed to have some slight South Slavic admixture anyways. Many Greeks have Albanian and Bulgarian ancestry, why do you not like the idea of that?

About language and culture - the people who moved into Greece were not 100% Slavs. They were our northern neighbours who already had some Slavic admixture, AKA south Slavs. You seem to think they are the same as a Ukrainian or something, but they're not. The admixture is similar to ours but lacking the Kura-Araxes as I showed before, now you need to stop coming up with conspiracy theories - mainland Greece was never isolated like Iceland so I'm not sure why you're making a comparison.

Honest question here, do you think Greek admixture remained the same during these events?

https://i.imgur.com/EYf0Gfv.gif
https://i.imgur.com/4gxJdOh.gif
https://i.imgur.com/V19gJzO.gif

I doubt it, but I'm open to hear why you don't believe admixture did not change when there is so much evidence it did.

Myceanaean Greeks we have an idea how they were, it`s that unless newer samples show otherwise. Dorians, assimilation of Thracians and of course actual results of Greeks from northern than Peloponnese. These parameters are needed to know what Greeks were before Slavic invasion.

Slavs invaded swiftly, that`s a fact. They were absolutely like Ukrainians and Poles probably, again samples needed.

Why a need to have Slav/Albanian ancestry? Albanians were so few in numbers historically virtually impossible to have affected more than 0.1%(my non-scientific estimate since I actually don`t pretend to know everything). Is this a fetish or what?

I`m half Northern Thracian aka northernmost Greek so probably this side is the most "Slavic" of all Greeks. Quote the "ashamed" in my posts or I call agenda. I`m interested in facts.

[AncientGreek]

Ev13 is not dominant in mainland only, but in all of Greece (aegean islands included) except for Macedonia and Crete, with the latter being the only one with J2 above all haplogroups

anyway, i am not aware about the ancient sample's accuracy to respond to this last one

but certainly Crete is the closest to mycaenean results, with higher steppe than dodecanese and lower than mainland

Haplogroups among my matches:

https://imgur.com/x7kG7ly.png

E-V13 certainly not dominant in the Dodecanese. And nearly all those E-V13 among my matches are mainlanders, only a very small number of them are 100% islanders. :coffee:

If you have 23andme, you can check distribution of match YDNA here: https://archaichellene.github.io/AncientGreek/ (Not tested much so no guarantee it works for you.)

Of course, it's not perfect, as there are some non-Greek matches or half/quarter/part Greek matches that have some different haplogroups.

[Konstantinos]

https://www.google.hr/search?q=slavic+tribes+in+greece&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiekorWvKLpAhVPThUIHYlZCnYQ_AUoAXoECA4QA w&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=EHr3XDUd9dMm6M

I really don't understand why some Greeks deny well documented Slavic settlement in Greece.
Even to this day there are slavophone villages in northern Greece, after all that assimilation.

I know Slavs invaded Greece. Do you have evidence how many were assimilated? Because I have evidence that a sizable number of them were deported.

[AncientGreek]

.

If you're interested in facts, then did you know the commonly predicted population of Albanians (who live in many countries around the Balkans, not just Albania) is around 10 million? Did you know the predicted number of Arvanites that lived in Greece was over 250,000? Please don't pretend like these are small numbers, and stop saying there's an agenda here. It's all facts, you can look it up yourself.

[Dorian]

Haplogroups among my matches:


If you have 23andme, you can check distribution of match YDNA here:
Of course, it's not perfect, as there are some non-Greek matches or half/quarter/part Greek matches that have some different haplogroups.

What kind of site is this?there's no home page.. also is there any of filtering of your matches after you upload the data?

[AncientGreek]

What kind of site is this?there's no home page.. also is there any of filtering of your matches after you upload the data?

No, I can add more features later. It is all done in Javascript so there's actually no upload. The relatives .csv file can be downloaded from this link: https://you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/download/

[Dorian]

If you're interested in facts, then did you know the commonly predicted population of Albanians (who live in many countries around the Balkans, not just Albania) is around 10 million? Did you know the predicted number of Arvanites that lived in Greece was over 250,000? Please don't pretend like these are small numbers, and stop saying there's an agenda here. It's all facts, you can look it up yourself.

Their modern population count is irrelevant ,why mention it? in 1600 albania area had a population of 200k (and not all "albanians" obviously) ,just one century later they were 300k..go burther back ,think about the clan culture and you can understand how they became "homogeneous" or how founder effects could take place.

I agree that we must be objective but there's nothing objective/that has been settled about Arvanites(+Vlachs too) or the origin of albanian language/when it came yet..things could be more complicated than a g25 calculator..I wouldn't like to discuss this further though , just let time show.

What source has Arvanites at 250k though?

[Konstantinos]

If you're interested in facts, then did you know the commonly predicted population of Albanians (who live in many countries around the Balkans, not just Albania) is around 10 million? Did you know the predicted number of Arvanites that lived in Greece was over 250,000? Please don't pretend like these are small numbers, and stop saying there's an agenda here. It's all facts, you can look it up yourself.

Haha now it`s just funny. Modern inflated numbers when talking about Middle Ages. Also omitting the fact that Arvanites lived only in certain areas and many of them left for Italy. Anyone with complete knowledge knows Albanians boomed demographically from an extremely small population. Meanwhile anthropologists have long noted that Tosks look much more "Med" than Ghegs :cool: Certainly Albanians in Greece can be spotted from across the street. Ridiculous :picard2:

[Hudayar]

You have strong Med shift, interesting. Basically half Kavkazian half east med/aegan
Ashkenazi are pretty close to south Italians and Greek Islanders.

Ashkenazi could just mean Anatolian, since I have seen Jews plotting close to Hittites.

[Hudayar]

This is quite strange. You lack any East Asian/Siberian contribution, usually for Turks it's between 5-15%, can go up to 22% depending on the person, yet you score close to Turks and even to Azeris.

I'm assuming this is because of noticeable European contribution combined with East Mediterranean heritage. Compared to Armenians/Anatolian-Greeks, Turks score higher European due to Yamnaya heritage. You might not be fully Pontian though since your results are wildly different from others.

The European admixture can't be described with Greek heritage since Greeks themselves are around 30% at best. A fully Pontic person having 20% doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The average there is literally 1%

[Dorian]

No, I can add more features later. It is all done in Javascript so there's actually no upload. The relatives .csv file can be downloaded from this link: https://you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/download/

Funny thing is just yesterday I sorted ydna(+mt) of my matches ,browsed them one by one..wondered If there's some tool but didn't bother to search.
Anyways out of almost 1400 matches only around -/+ 10% were relevant to use for both (Greek side from mixed people included)...

N=130
E-v13 23,8%
I2 15,38%
R1b 13,85%
J2 3,84%
J2a 10%
R1a 7,69%
Other E-clades 5,38%
J2b 5,38%
G 4,61%
Ι1 3,84%
J1 2,30%
T 2,30%
L-L595 0,79%
N-M178 0,79%

I could break them apart to subclades but I guess it's meaningless for such size.

[Tauromachos]

I know Slavs invaded Greece. Do you have evidence how many were assimilated? Because I have evidence that a sizable number of them were deported.

Slavs tried to invade Greece a number of time and were kicked out

Bulgarians who were among the worst and most brutal were fucked by Basil II with his army and since then never tried again

End of story

[Mingle]

There is no Polish nor Ukranian input in Greece other than recent migrants.

So then how do you explain the high IBD sharing that Greeks have with Poles and Ukrainians?

https://i.imgur.com/tlLVmNo.png

The graph above was made by a Greek person (Dienekes).

[Renekton]

Slavs tried to invade Greece a number of time and were kicked out

Bulgarians who were among the worst and most brutal were fucked by Basil II with his army and since then never tried again

End of storyNope

[Tauromachos]

Lol, hypothetical 70% wog and 30% Slavic group won't end up looking looking Slavic, that's for sure xD
Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo.

Modern Greeks are about 70% Mycanaean like plus 30% other

I doubt that the rest 30% is all from Slavs who came to the Balkans in the Middle Ages



Slavic admixture in mainland Greeks is similar to white admixture in Aframs, don't worry, they don't look Anglo

https://oslosweatershop.com/268-large_default/840241-troll-laughing-trolls-has-a-very-good-sense-of-humor-most-of-the-times-they-are-happy-and-laughing-h-17-cm.jpghttps://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/trollmovie/images/0/0a/Goblins.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20110114060846
And you are a Gypsy you are Celine's twin sister

[Tauromachos]

Nope

Yes

[Tauromachos]

This is Spartan admixture in Winged Hussars.

Spartans had nothing to do with Poles

[AncientGreek]

Funny thing is just yesterday I sorted ydna(+mt) of my matches ,browsed them one by one..wondered If there's some tool but didn't bother to search.
Anyways out of almost 1400 matches only around -/+ 10% were relevant to use for both (Greek side from mixed people included)...

N=130
E-v13 23,8%
I2 15,38%
R1b 13,85%
J2 3,84%
J2a 10%
R1a 7,69%
Other E-clades 5,38%
J2b 5,38%
G 4,61%
Ι1 3,84%
J1 2,30%
T 2,30%
L-L595 0,79%
N-M178 0,79%

I could break them apart to subclades but I guess it's meaningless for such size.

Here is result with naive filter and allowing some other E clades (not just E-V13) and rarer clades in table (filter = only surnames ending with 's', not perfect but if you have a suggestion for a good one let me know):

https://imgur.com/mRXjbEw.png

I made it just earlier today, so even if you searched you could not find it before!

[brennus dux gallorum]

Haplogroups among my matches:

https://imgur.com/x7kG7ly.png

E-V13 certainly not dominant in the Dodecanese. And nearly all those E-V13 among my matches are mainlanders, only a very small number of them are 100% islanders. :coffee:

If you have 23andme, you can check distribution of match YDNA here: https://archaichellene.github.io/AncientGreek/ (Not tested much so no guarantee it works for you.)

Of course, it's not perfect, as there are some non-Greek matches or half/quarter/part Greek matches that have some different haplogroups.

I don't know about dodecanese in particular but 20% of Greek islanders carry ev13

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Which is not a big difference from peloponnese 27%, sobi suspect that it's more like dodecanese is an outlier in the particular case. Still there's no historical event that could increase ev13 in the mainland, it doesn't sound strange to have always been dominant in central and parts of northern Greece (like thessaly) in particular

[Tauromachos]

@Ancient Greek

Turce beliyorum?

[Renekton]

Greeks are 70% Mycenaean like and 30% Slavic. I agree with this. Feiichy is right

[Renekton]

YesSlavs exist even today in modern Greek state, even hellenized Albanians aka Arvanites today

[Dorian]

Here is result with naive filter and allowing some other E clades (not just E-V13) and rarer clades in table (filter = only surnames ending with 's', not perfect but if you have a suggestion for a good one let me know):


I made it just earlier today, so even if you searched you could not find it before!

Not really familiar with program things but If possible ,make it target those whose paternal grandfather part has Greece I guess?

[AncientGreek]

I don't know about dodecanese in particular but 20% of Greek islanders carry ev13

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Which is not a big difference from peloponnese 27%, sobi suspect that it's more like dodecanese is an outlier in the particular case. Still there's no historical event that could increase ev13 in the mainland, it doesn't sound strange to have always been dominant in central and parts of northern Greece (like thessaly) in particular

Do you know what source this eupedia website is using? For all I know, it is basing E-V13 of Aegean islands that were repopulated with mainlanders. :icon_rolleyes:

[brennus dux gallorum]

Greeks are 70% Mycenaean like and 30% Slavic. I agree with this. Feiichy is right

I agree with the 70% mycaenean, but this 30% Slavic when many others invaded Greece and from several parts of Europe from 6th century ad to 1500, it's impossible that only Slavs left impact and so high (30%)

[Tauromachos]

Slavs exist even today in modern Greek state, even hellenized Albanians aka Arvanites today

Yes they do exist even today so do Gypsies in both Greek and Slavic countries

[Tauromachos]

Do you know what source this eupedia website is using? For all I know, it is basing E-V13 of Aegean islands that were repopulated with mainlanders. :icon_rolleyes:

Gjunaidim Memleket Akdeniz
https://9c998969b63acdb676d1-37595348221e1b716e1a6cfee3ed7891.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/almpics/2020/05/RTS34VQO.JPG/RTS34VQO-570.JPGhttps://im.haberturk.com/2019/05/28/ver1579506164/2478310_7650c178633f99936332a8bd18264c21.jpg

[AncientGreek]

Not really familiar with program things but If possible ,make it target those whose paternal grandfather part has Greece I guess?

That filter removes all Greeks born overseas, I'm not sure if it will work well. I will add some filter options to the website later, so others can use it.

[Renekton]

I agree with the 70% mycaenean, but this 30% Slavic when many others invaded Greece and from several parts of Europe from 6th century ad to 1500, it's impossible that only Slavs left impact and so high (30%)The 30% is mainly from North Greece that's why they say that

[Tauromachos]

That filter removes all Greeks born overseas, I'm not sure if it will work well. I will add some filter options to the website later, so others can use it.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=27033&dateline=1586799453

[brennus dux gallorum]

Do you know what source this eupedia website is using? For all I know, it is basing E-V13 of Aegean islands that were repopulated with mainlanders. :icon_rolleyes:

No Aegean island recorded was repopulated by mainlanders and to a so high degree that the specific hg would reach 20%, let alone that lesvos for example (which if i am not mistaken is included in its sample) has never been repopulated by mainlanders in post classical ages

And notice that even Crete (which wasn't repopulated by mainlanders) has a higher percentage of ev13 than dodecanese, and as far as i know Crete autosomally plots north of dodeanese as well

I don't dispute that Slavic and other kinds of admixture may occurred in mainland but you underestimate the native levantine pregreek impact in dodecanese, which possibly increased through contacts of the dodecanese with Asia minor

Don't forget that Cyclades (with no exchanges with mainland recorded) or Ionian islands (my island has not even one slavic toponym) are almost intermediate to dodecanese and mainland, if not closer to mainland

[Renekton]

https://youtu.be/7xql6L85GEk

[Tauromachos]

No Aegean island recorded was repopulated by mainlanders and to a so high degree that the specific hg would reach 20%, let alone that lesvos for example (which if i am not mistaken is included in its sample) has never been repopulated by mainlanders in post classical ages

And notice that even Crete (which wasn't repopulated by mainlanders) has a higher percentage of ev13 than dodecanese, and as far as i know Crete autosomally plots north of dodeanese as well


Crete doesn't have a high percentage of EV13 on the other hand Cyprus has higher percentage of it than Crete from what i remember

Now was Cyprus repopulated by Mainland Greeks too;)?

Also some people in West Asia(Kurds) have reasonable amount of EV13

Were Kurds repopulated by Mainland Greeks?

[Renekton]

I2 forever

[gültekin]

I don't care what White Nationalist accept - Slavo-Avar Turanid input is non existent in Greek phenotypes.

West Asian Caucasian sure
East Med Mediterranean sure

Slavo-Avar Turanid and Turk - get the fuck out.
:laugh:
Manos Kanellos
https://files.list.co.uk/images/2013/08/14/manos-kanellos-greekonomics.jpg
https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515WmISkeWL.jpg

[Renekton]

[emoji23]
Manos Kanellos
https://files.list.co.uk/images/2013/08/14/manos-kanellos-greekonomics.jpg
https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515WmISkeWL.jpgI Google it but I didn't find him. Are you sure this guy is a Greek?

[catgeorge]

So then how do you explain the high IBD sharing that Greeks have with Poles and Ukrainians?

https://i.imgur.com/tlLVmNo.png

The graph above was made by a Greek person (Dienekes).

Because its full of shit. Every single PCA no matter the calculator the distance is way too far. People just need to use common sense not common fantasies.

[Tauromachos]

I Google it but I didn't find him. Are you sure this guy is a Greek?

Macedonian

[AncientGreek]

No Aegean island recorded was repopulated by mainlanders and to a so high degree that the specific hg would reach 20%, let alone that lesvos for example (which if i am not mistaken is included in its sample) has never been repopulated by mainlanders in post classical ages

And notice that even Crete (which wasn't repopulated by mainlanders) has a higher percentage of ev13 than dodecanese, and as far as i know Crete autosomally plots north of dodeanese as well

I don't dispute that Slavic and other kinds of admixture may occurred in mainland but you underestimate the native levantine pregreek impact in dodecanese, which possibly increased through contacts of the dodecanese with Asia minor

Don't forget that Cyclades (with no exchanges with mainland recorded) or Ionian islands (my island has not even one slavic toponym) are almost intermediate to dodecanese and mainland, if not closer to mainland

:picard1: Simply not true. Samos, for example, was totally unoccupied for over a century before it was repopulated. Same thing surely happened to other islands during history, especially the ones closest to the mainland. Dodecanese are the most furthest and most isolated from mainland, more so than Crete. Islands like Kos are very west asian shifted, but that's not the case for every single Dodecanese island. Carian admixture is probably present in the Dodecanese but it's not Levantine, why do you call it Levantine? Anatolians are not Levantine. :picard1:

[Renekton]

MacedonianHe doesn't look Greek, looks like a wog boy

[Tauromachos]

He doesn't look Greek, looks like a wog boy

He looks I2 to me probably from the Slavophone villages

In Cyprus and Greek Islands we don't have such faces

[catgeorge]

:laugh:
[/IMG]

Mind your own business you ugly small dick chink.

[Renekton]

He looks I2 to me probably from the Slavophone villagesNot at all. These features look like Anatolians and Cypriots.

Either way he doesn't look Aryan

[catgeorge]

He looks I2 to me probably from the Slavophone villages

In Cyprus and Greek Islands we don't have such faces

No Greek islands dont have those faces he will be atypical for Samos where he is from.

[brennus dux gallorum]

:picard1: Simply not true. Samos, for example, was totally unoccupied for over a century before it was repopulated. Same thing surely happened to other islands during history, especially the ones closest to the mainland. Dodecanese are the most furthest and most isolated from mainland, more so than Crete. Islands like Kos are very west asian shifted, but that's not the case for every single Dodecanese island. Carian admixture is probably present in the Dodecanese but it's not Levantine, why do you call it Levantine? Anatolians are not Levantine. :picard1:

Samos was not repopulated exclusively by mainlanders or to be more precise most of its new population was not from the mainland! There was repopulation of the island from lesvos, asia minor dodecanese ikaria etc only a small part came from the mainland, and no nothing "surely happened to other islands" as there's no document supporting that, and again an example that directly comes to mind is lesvos and chios, both never repopulated by mainlanders in recent history, but they still have a basic difference from dodecanese: geographical distance from the levant, which results higher percentages of ev13. The same goes for paros naxos etc.. when did they lose their population to be repopulated and mostly by mainlanders?

And that's what i mean, yes dodecanese is the most distant from the mainland, but that was not different in antiquity, you know. If medieval invaders didn't reach dodecanese, ancient Greek invaders reached to a lower amount and assimilated a higher amount of levantine mixed natives as well. And again, there was no so decisive immigration from the mainland to Crete recorded to make the percentage of ev13 in Crete so significantly higher than dodecanese

[gültekin]

I Google it but I didn't find him. Are you sure this guy is a Greek?
He is , from Samos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp6lK7cY19Y

[Tauromachos]

Not at all. These features look like Anatolians and Cypriots.

Not even close

Cypriots looke Mediterranean or if they realy look exotice Non European they look pre Turkic Anatolian like some Armenians or like Levantine
people which doesn't have anything to do with this phenotype.

You find more Turanid influence phenotype in Balkans North of Greece than in Cyprus (i mean among real Cypriot natives not recently imported Turkish occupiers they don't count)
Even your Aryan friend Anaximander from Epiros knows this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA1m5MH9AZI


Either way he doesn't look Aryan

Yes he doesn't

[AncientGreek]

Samos was not repopulated exclusively by mainlanders or to be more precise most of its new population was not from the mainland! There was repopulation of the island from lesvos, asia minor dodecanese ikaria etc only a small part came from the mainland, and no nothing "surely happened to other islands" as there's no document supporting that, and again an example that directly comes to mind is lesvos and chios, both never repopulated by mainlanders in recent history, but they still have a basic difference from dodecanese: geographical distance from the levant, which results higher percentages of ev13. The same goes for paros naxos etc.. when did they lose their population to be repopulated and mostly by mainlanders?

And that's what i mean, yes dodecanese is the most distant from the mainland, but that was not different in antiquity, you know. If medieval invaders didn't reach dodecanese, ancient Greek invaders reached to a lower amount and assimilated a higher amount of levantine mixed natives as well. And again, there was no so decisive immigration from the mainland to Crete recorded to make the percentage of ev13 in Crete so significantly higher than dodecanese

Can you please provide source of Y-DNA haplogroup of Chios? They actually have same admixture as Dodecanese, why would their Y Haplogroup distribution be different?

[Tauromachos]

No Greek islands dont have those faces he will be atypical for Samos where he is from.

He looks more Steppe than native Islander like people from your region or your cousins in Bitola were Vojnik is from

[Renekton]

He looks more Steppe than native Islander like people from your region or your cousins in Bitola were Vojnik is fromIn your wet dreams only.

[catgeorge]

He looks more Steppe than native Islander like people from your region or your cousins in Bitola were Vojnik is from

WTF is your problem Cypriot?

Go and dance me some Arab.

[Renekton]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200508/d31d22198f7cae536e25d45bcc9fe328.jpg

[brennus dux gallorum]

Can you please provide source of Y-DNA haplogroup of Chios? They actually have same admixture as Dodecanese, why would their Y Haplogroup distribution be different?

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8002-Map-of-Slavic-y-dna-in-Greece-compiled-by-user-Passa/page21

There was also additional links posted here one year ago i will try to find it

Again most of the islands with no single mainland immigration recorded are dominated by ev13

[Dorian]

That filter removes all Greeks born overseas, I'm not sure if it will work well. I will add some filter options to the website later, so others can use it.

Again If possible ,as an extra filter/secondary , target a range of haplos/clades that have been found in Greeks and make the uploader sort out the surnames.Like create something out of the csv?resembling a platform only surnames appearing to be sorted out.

Although I don't think it's necessary ,majority puts Greece..you won't lose many.

[Tauromachos]

He is , from Samos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp6lK7cY19Y

Well as we learned here Samos was repopulated by Mainland Greeks

He is descended obviously from Macedonian Mainland Greek settlers:)

[Tauromachos]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200508/d31d22198f7cae536e25d45bcc9fe328.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=24815&dateline=1588584928

[catgeorge]

Well as we learned here Samos was repopulated by Mainland Greeks

He is descended obviously from Macedonian Mainland Greek settlers:)

No - we don't have Anatolian-Turkic vibes.

Sorry. He passes better in Cyprus.

[Tauromachos]

WTF is your problem Cypriot?

Go and dance me some Arab.

My problem is the Slavophone Germanotsolias Hahns

[Tauromachos]

No - we don't have Anatolian-Turkic vibes.

Sorry. He passes better in Cyprus.

He pass in Slavophone regions of Greece

[Renekton]

Go away Cypriot

[Tauromachos]

Go away Cypriot

Go away Slav

Back to Slavonia

Greece is for Greeks not for Slavs

[catgeorge]

My problem is the Slavophone Germanotsolias Hahns

Hanhs is a great Greek uniter - genetically Greek slavophones with zero MENA input under Hellas bossom.

[Renekton]

Go away Slav

Back to Slavonia

Greece is for Greeks not for SlavsGreece will become an Islamic country soon boy, The Levantines arrive in huge numbers every day. Your kin.

[Renekton]

Hanhs is a great Greek uniter - genetically Greek slavophones with zero MENA input under Hellas bossom.You waste your time with him

[Tauromachos]

Hanhs is a great Greek uniter - genetically Greek slavophones with zero MENA input under Hellas bossom.

Hahns is your gay boyfriend thats why you have feelings for him

[Tauromachos]

Greece will become an Islamic country soon boy, The Levantines arrive in huge numbers every day. Your kin.

Levantines are not my kin

Greece to Greeks only(people who speak Greek and identify as Greek and love the language and country) neither to Slavs,Arabs nor Germans

[Renekton]

Levantines are not my kin

Greece to Greeks neither to Slavs,Arabs or GermansYou are not Greek, you are a Cypriot

[Tauromachos]

You are not Greek, you are a Cypriot

I'm Greek possibly more than you

You are part Slav descended thats why you are so butthurt and post pro Slavic propaganda

[brennus dux gallorum]

You are not Greek, you are a Cypriot

Cyprus is Greek (not taking any side in your conflict, just saying)

[Renekton]

Cyprus is GreekCyprus is Cyprus different state.

The citizens are Greek speaking AND Turkish speaking

[brennus dux gallorum]

Cyprus is Cyprus different state.

The citizens are Greek speaking AND Turkish speaking

To me citizenship doesn't matter. All people in Thrace have Greek citizenship byt when i was in komotini or some villages north of xanthi it felt like middle east

[Vojnik]

He looks Avar Kipchak to me no where near north Greek. He would be seen as a Slav.

I don’t look like a Slav, kipchak or Avar. I like like a damn wog, ok? Mate?
https://i.ibb.co/4SpSP85/6-D65-E900-5-E83-4-B48-A8-EC-C9737-E03-F143.jpg (https://ibb.co/hdVdDBt)

And see those gloves im wearing, they are for when I give you a prostate exam. Apo pisou.

[AncientGreek]

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8002-Map-of-Slavic-y-dna-in-Greece-compiled-by-user-Passa/page21

There was also additional links posted here one year ago i will try to find it

Again most of the islands with no single mainland immigration recorded are dominated by ev13

I have no idea how that user came up with the stats so it's not very scientific is it? It seems he posted some 'data he collected' but didn't give sources, so this data is honestly useless, since we have no idea how or where he collected it. Now, I read through that thread and people were saying things that were proven completely false since now we have a few samples (hopefully way more in future), so thanks for the read and laugh.

Here is results from real scientific study (https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/24/6/1300/984002):

https://imgur.com/our5MNM.png

Again, it don't say which Aegean islands, but the amounts on the sites you are giving are obviously inflated compared to real numbers.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I have no idea how that user came up with the stats so it's not very scientific is it? It seems he posted some 'data he collected' but didn't give sources, so this data is honestly useless, since we have no idea how or where he collected it. Now, I read through that thread and people were saying things that were proven completely false since now we have a few samples (hopefully way more in future), so thanks for the read and laugh.

Here is results from real scientific study (https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/24/6/1300/984002):

https://imgur.com/our5MNM.png

Again, it don't say which Aegean islands, but the amounts on the sites you are giving are obviously inflated compared to real numbers.

In your "scientific" source the difference between Crete, islands and mainland Greece in terms of ev13 is even smaller than in my source, which means you technically confirm my claims (that ev13 is lower in dodecanese mainly becauze of assimilated levantines) and debunk your own better than i did, but regardless from if we agree or disagree the irony in your speech (thanks for laugh etc) shows that you're what in Greece we call "malakas" and don't worth any attention

You were completely clueless about "Aegean islands that were vastly repopulated by mainlanders" with zero sources supporting your claims, when we know that even of this is true for medieval times it technically is even more true for the classical period, resulting further levantine admixture in dodecanese.