Tomenable's analysis of French genetic clusters

[Peterski]

This is what I have obtained when checking how my own regional French averages cluster:

Important Note:

In Provence, some samples (especially around Nice) are very close to North Italy, but more samples are closer to Iberia/Baleares.

This is why I painted Provence with mixed Orange-Blue instead of mixed Yellow-Blue, but the latter choice would be quite OK too.

https://i.imgur.com/mPqHURk.png

^^^ Attached image with a fragment of my clustering exercise, all of these regional averages group together with each other:

A clearly identifiable "Central French" cluster emerges from the analysis. It includes all highlighted regions which group together:

https://i.imgur.com/LqOXM2B.png

Poitou-Charentes is mixed for example Vendee Department is clearly Central French but Charente-Maritime is Aquitanian-shifted.

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Overall this looks a bit different than map from "The Genetic History of France" study. I think one mistake they made in that study was that they checked how samples cluster comparing only regional French samples to each other, without adding non-French (Belgian, German, Spanish, Italian etc.) neighbour populations for comparison.

On the other hand, my map posted above is based on clustering of entire Europe.

And in my opinion, for example Ile de France is still closer to Auvergne than the former is to Germany or to Belgium.

This is why I obtained a Central French cluster, all regions of which are closer to each other than to Non-French people.

Obviously, what clusters you will obtain depends also on what populations are used in the comparison. So if you make clustering with only French regional samples (without including Iberians, Germans, Belgians, etc.), clusters will be different than when you use both French and Non-French samples.

When you use just French samples, Ile-de-France might be closer to Hauts-de-France than to Auvergne & Centre. But when you add Germans, Belgians, etc. for comparison - then Hauts-de-France may "jump" to the Belgian cluster, while most samples from Ile-de-France may "jump" to the same cluster as Auvergne & Centre.

[Peterski]

If there are any French users here who would like to be compared to those regional averages and see how they cluster, PM me about it.

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Or if you have French GEDmatch kits, I'm also interested.

[Peterski]

^^^
Also for example if I examine individual samples one by one instead of averages, I see that:

In case of Provence Marseille (for example):

9 individuals are close to Central French (of which two have Northern shift, one Iberian shift, one Italian shift)
3 individuals are intermediate between North Italy and Central France
2 individuals are intermediate between Iberians and Central France
2 individuals are intermediate between Iberians and North Italy
2 individuals are closest to North-West Italy
2 individuals are closest to Iberia/Baleares

One is a very northern outlier, obviously must have a lot of ancestry from Northern France.

Among samples from Provence Nice, it looks a bit different (and a bit closer to North Italy).

[XenophobicPrussian]

Very cool. Hope you wind up doing Germany and England too.

Also wonder if South French would cluster closer to Iberians if Basques/Navarra are excluded.

[J. Ketch]

I think some Normans maybe closer to English than Bretons are, they are in looks anyway. Part of Normandy could be fully green.

[Vid Flumina]

Situation in SE France is still unclear, do you have anything from inland Provence (ie. Alpes-de-Haute-Provence/Ventoux area)?

[Karol Klačansky]

Super interesting.

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Samnium]

Very interesting.

Do you have the details for Rhone-Alpes and particularly Haute-Savoie/Ain/Savoie ?

Haute-Savoie is bordering Switzerland I would expect to see them similar to their Swiss French counterparts.

It confirms a bit this map :

https://i.imgur.com/fgkXV3A.png

The difference is that Ile de France, Rhone-Alpes and Bourgogne are grouped in the Northern French cluster.

Something that's quite interesting in your thread and that I had pinpointed out already before is that Swiss French seem to be quite Austrian shifted. I had seen a result that could be modelized as 60% East German and 40% N.Italian.

Edit : I've seen your comment for the Giemza map, nevermind.

[Jana]

Great job Peterski, no suprises for me. Your clusters are all very logical and expected.

[Samnium]

Great job Peterski, no suprises for me. Your clusters are all very logical and expected.

Something that's interesting is that there seem to be regions that are intermediates between the more northern one and the real "central" French regions.

Here Ile de France, Bourgogne and Rhone-Alpes are grouped in the Central French cluster whereas they are in the Northern one for Giemza study (except some parts of Rhone-Alpes that are closer to Provence or Auvergne).

As Peterksi mean, Ile de France is actually more closer to Germans/Brits than Auvergne but it doesn't appear here. Same reasoning for the others regions that I've quoted. That means that there's a "smooth" gradient between Central and proper Northern France cluster.

I know someone who's from Bourgogne, and he's quite northern shifted, maybe not as much as Normands, but still.
Now to me the only incoherence is that the parts very close to Switzerland aren't partly violet because they are the same people (from studies that I had seen) genetically.

[Mingle]

Shouldn't Aquitania be its own distinct cluster or part of the Basque-Aquitania cluster rather than part of the Iberian cluster?

Only a single Dutch province clusters with Belgium? I thought it was all southern Dutch provinces. Interesting.

Shouldn't South Tyrol be maroon with yellow lines instead of purely yellow?

[Peterski]

Update, I published K13 averages (and soon will add also K15):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?323241-French-Regional-Averages-by-Peterski

[Leto]

Update, I published K13 averages (and soon will add also K15):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?323241-French-Regional-Averages-by-Peterski
Why are they not added yet onto Vahaduo?