Ideal future of Belgium?

[TheForeigner]

Considering there is some ethnic and political tension between Walloons and Flemings and that they haven't got along that well for generations and that Belgium is essentially an artificial state and not a true nation state and lacks the cohesion that even Switzerland has, what would be the best solution for this country's future? Personally I think it should hold plebiscites for independence in Wallonia and Flanders and ultimately Wallonia would unite with France, while Flanders might form an independent republic or join the Netherlands. I personally think the Dutch, British and other Europeans still under monarchical rule should abolish their monarchies and establish republics. Netherlands and Flanders could for a federation on the Swiss or German model. What do you guys think? Poll coming up.

[TheForeigner]

I have to say the future place of Brussels would be a big problem, if the country gets divided. It's bilingual and predominantly French speaking and also surrounded by Flemish land, being a former Flemish town.

[TheForeigner]

bump

[The Lawspeaker]

https://forum.politics.be/attachment.php?attachmentid=23894&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1186571048

"A strong Netherlands in a strong Europe !"

(including Brussels and the Voerstreek).

And, Foreigner ? I agree with you: I think we should scrap the monarchy and opt for a confederal republic, modelled on the Swiss model with States' Rights being granted to all provinces.

[Sheva]

They have massive immigration problems and bicker about trivial matters like this? Truly Europeans of today in a nutshell. The rivalry of the past are but frivolous affairs in presence of the grand elephant in the room.

[TheForeigner]

They have massive immigration problems and bicker about trivial matters like this? Truly Europeans of today in a nutshell. The rivalry of the past are but frivolous affairs in presence of the grand elephant in the room.

You are right that the immigration issue is the most important by far, but one doesn't just forget one's nationality. I think Belgium should have been partitioned peacefully a long time ago, the way they did it in Czechoslovakia.

[sean]

They have no future. The old generation already died off and are replaced with a new generation.

https://i.imgur.com/uye0VOc.jpg

Belgium is like watching an abusive couple stay together as they hate everyone else more than their own toxic relationship together. In Belgium most people do as little as possible, and people will never take more responsibility than they are required to in their work contract. This attitude leads to the insane bureaucracy in Belgium that you don't want to import into your country. Look at what Belgium's most famous son has to say.

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1564494829361.jpg

Belgium and the Netherlands are the root of a large portion of the migrants. The area Ghent-Antwerp-Leuven-Brussels is totally urbanised and migrants are also moving from the cities to that area. In the east they have a lot of durks with dual citizenship. The only migrant free zones are West-Vlaanderen, Brabant-Wallon and Luxembourg. However, Flemish nationalists will in all probability have a majority in the Flemish parliament in a couple of years. Two Flemish nationalist parties N-VA and Vlaams Belang won more seats last election. I think they will have more than 50% seats in 2024 and might organise an referendum for independence.

So we'll see what happens next.

[Zeno]

https://youtu.be/4go1RXOBF0s

[Ford]

Absorbed by actual nations such as France and Netherlands.

[The Lawspeaker]

https://youtu.be/4go1RXOBF0s

Ik heb getwijfeld over België (as the famous 1980s song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIJQzlB0-HI) goes: I have had my doubts about Belgium) but now I am sure: "Belgium" is a joke. A complete and utter joke. Good for a joke and a laugh but a never-ending source of drama for us here on the other side of the border.

[Ülev]

Ik ken geen België, ik ken alleen den Zuidelijke Neederlanden

[The Lawspeaker]

^ En zo is het maar net !

Time to restore a semblance of order down there.

https://historiek.net/wp-content/uploads-phistor1/2007/11/tiendaagse-veldtocht-ravels.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6wHM1mhK6Nk/TpLDWRUTvRI/AAAAAAAAAJE/aFG1-Uzb0SU/s1600/Hoynck-051025.jpg

[gixajo]

They have no future. The old generation already died off and are replaced with a new generation.

[g]

Belgium is like watching an abusive couple stay together as they hate everyone else more than their own toxic relationship together. In Belgium most people do as little as possible, and people will never take more responsibility than they are required to in their work contract. This attitude leads to the insane bureaucracy in Belgium that you don't want to import into our country. Look at what Belgium's most famous person has to say.

[
Belgium and the Netherlands are the root of a large portion of the migrants. The area Ghent-Antwerp-Leuven-Brussels is totally urbanised and migrants are also moving from the cities to that area. In the east they have a lot of durks with dual citizenship. The only migrant free zones are West-Vlaanderen, Brabant-Wallon and Luxembourg. However, Flemish nationalists will in all probability have a majority in the Flemish parliament in a couple of years. Two Flemish nationalist parties N-VA and Vlaams Belang won more seats last election. I think they will have more than 50% seats in 2024 and might organise an referendum for independence.

So we'll see what happens next.

I was impressed by everything you know about Belgian politics. ;)

Anyone would think that that interest could come from some kind of relationship with that country.

[Tchek]

"Partition" or "Keep united..."

Why do people always think that Belgium is "united"? It's not an unitary state for a long time now. It's a very partitioned federal state.
So partitioned that independance or confederacy would actually change little, by opposition to a throw back to an actual unitary state.

[Dandelion]

I honestly don't know and stopped caring too much long ago. There's even free border crossing in the EU (albeit temporarily limited due to corona). The area around Brussels would make a splitup even the more difficult. We could very well join our respective neighbouring countries (joining the Netherlands is something I deem realistic despite the popular opinion believing otherwise, but that won't necessarily just happen). But we're not even done with our state reforms I'm afraid (six in total by now).

Welcome to Belgium! Kafkaesque in its state structure you risk losing your sanity if you delve too deep in it.

[Dandelion]

Why do people always think that Belgium is "united"? It's not an unitary state for a long time now. It's a very partitioned federal state.
So partitioned that independance or confederacy would actually change little, by opposition to a throw back to an actual unitary state.

Even Dutch people seem to often think that. "You don't speak French fluently? But you're a bilingual country!". Yeah, but not one of a bilingual region and population.

[Dandelion]

Belgians are also very anationalistic in practice, even if the N-VA garners many popular votes. People are also very cynical about politicians. It also comes with pros. I notice this in the Netherlands I made people feel insulted over things I don't give a damn about. That is due to my work environment being more infantile, granted, as my Dutch personal friends aren't like that.

If we were to get over the communitarian struggles in Belgium and the political divide (mission impossible, especially given the economic disparity). I believe Belgians would be far more relaxed than they are today. Our state changed so drastically in such a short timespan, an identity crisis is certainly an issue with us.

It's sad because the land itself has a very rich history to it.

Belgium in itself comes from the Neo-Latin name for the Netherlands which in its turn comes from a group of Celtic tribes during the Roman Invasion, by the way, as we used to be called the Southern Netherlands before (a different state from the Dutch Republic of the Seven Netherlands). Nowadays we might as well be called Flanders & Wallonia. And even Flanders and Wallonia are names foreigners invented for us and does the historical continuity some disrespect, but it's fine.

[Dandelion]

I even made a Dutch feel insulted by saying the cling film of Delhaize is of better quality than the one we're using of AH. lol Or by joking about Calvinism after they were going on for two minutes about taking only one piece of a cake I was sharing (I shared six in total) as worked for one year in that company.

I'm quite sure I won't work there for much longer, but I'll try to get another job also in the Netherlands. I know for a fact don't have the most pleasant colleagues. My previous Belgian colleagues were certainly a more pleasant bunch and some colleagues in that Dutch company are also pleasant like that, but my direct colleagues suck big time. One is even from a Protestant village and is passive-aggressive as fuck and always negative about traditionally Catholic countries (France, Spain, Italy). I'm getting sick of it.

[The Lawspeaker]

I even made a Dutch feel insulted by saying the cling film of Delhaize is of better quality than the one we're using of AH. lol Or by joking about Calvinism after they were going on for two minutes about taking only one piece of a cake I was sharing (I shared six in total) as worked for one year in that company.
I'm quite sure I won't work there for much longer, but I'll try to get another job also in the Netherlands. I know for a fact don't have the most pleasant colleagues. My previous Belgian colleagues were certainly a more pleasant bunch and some colleagues in that Dutch company are also pleasant like that, but my direct colleagues suck big time.

Je moeten ook niet met een stel zwartekousen gaan werken. Dat is vragen om moeilijkheden. Niemand kan met die lui omgaan - het is onze eigen homegrown Nedertaliban.

[Dandelion]

Je moeten ook niet met een stel zwartekousen gaan werken. Dat is vragen om moeilijkheden.

Je hebt me gewaarschuwd. Mijn beste vriendin is ook van Protestantse komaf, maar zij is niet-gelovig en daarom is zij nog een leuk persoon.

[The Lawspeaker]

Je hebt me gewaarschuwd. Mijn beste vriendin is ook van Protestantse komaf, maar zij is niet-gelovig en daarom is zij nog een leuk persoon.
Klopt want ik weet hoe die lui zijn: er valt gewoon geen land mee te bezeilen. Het is net Walen, alleen dan nog een pak erger. Bang voor God, bang voor de dominee, bang voor de buurman, bang voor hun moeder, bang voor hun wijf. Principeneukers van het ergste soort met de TV achter een gordijntje, de pornoblaadjes veilig opgeborgen en elke zondag na de kerkdienst (die keer per dag), hun neus vol coke.

[Dandelion]

Heb ik ook want ik weet hoe die lui zijn: er valt gewoon geen land mee te bezeilen. Het is net Walen, alleen dan nog een pak erger.

Ik vind Walen zeker leukere mensen. Ze willen enkel geen Nederlands leren. ;) Een Waal kan tenminste met zichzelf lachen.

[The Lawspeaker]

Ik vind Walen zeker leukere mensen. Ze willen enkel geen Nederlands leren. ;) Een Waal kan tenminste met zichzelf lachen.


Dat moet ik die Walen dan nog nageven. De gereverkeerden zijn één grote ramp.

[Dandelion]

Klopt want ik weet hoe die lui zijn: er valt gewoon geen land mee te bezeilen. Het is net Walen, alleen dan nog een pak erger. Bang voor God, bang voor de dominee, bang voor de buurman, bang voor hun moeder, bang voor hun wijf. Principeneukers van het ergste soort met de TV achter een gordijntje, de pornoblaadjes veilig opgeborgen en elke zondag na de kerkdienst (die keer per dag), hun neus vol coke.

Die vrijzinnig-Protestantse vriendin van me heeft me ooit eens verteld: "Christenen zijn nog toffe mensen, maar Gereformeerden niet."

Ze bedoelde natuurlijk dat velen zodanig van haat vervuld zijn dat ze de essentie van Jezus' boodschap volkomen gemist hebben.

[The Lawspeaker]

Die vrijzinnig-Protestantse vriendin van me heeft me ooit eens verteld: "Christenen zijn nog toffe mensen, maar Gereformeerden niet."

Ze bedoelde natuurlijk dat velen zodanig van haat vervuld zijn dat ze de essentie van Jezus' boodschap volkomen gemist hebben.


Daarom noemen we ze in het Zuiden ook gereverkeerden (ik heb het hier in het Noorden trouwens ook wel eens gehoord): omdat het zulke hartgrondige eikels zijn, heeft vrijwel iedereen een enorme bloedhekel aan die lui.

[Mingle]

Why do people always think that Belgium is "united"? It's not an unitary state for a long time now. It's a very partitioned federal state.
So partitioned that independance or confederacy would actually change little, by opposition to a throw back to an actual unitary state.

If its already disunited, wouldn't it be better to have it split between the Netherlands and France? That way it would be part of stronger/larger countries that have greater historical and political significance instead of being part of a small disunited country.

[Dandelion]

If its already disunited, wouldn't it be better to have it split between the Netherlands and France? That way it would be part of stronger/larger countries that have greater historical and political significance instead of being part of a small disunited country.

Problem is Brussels. Belgium is difficult to split. Yes, there has been the sugestion to have Brussels join the Netherlands too, but good luck in realising that. Have it cut off from Flanders you say? Neither easy given the situation in the periphery. If the Netherlands and France be neighbouring countries they had best be on friendly terms. But you can't just give them land from the Flemish Region, that's weakness.

[Mingle]

Problem is Brussels. Belgium is difficult to split. Yes, there has been the sugestion to have Brussels join the Netherlands too, but good luck in realising that. Have it cut off from Flanders you say? Neither easy given the situation in the periphery. If the Netherlands and France be neighbouring countries they had best be on friendly terms. But you can't just give them land from the Flemish Region, that's weakness.

It should go to the Netherlands in my opinion but its hard to realize that as you said. I imagine most residents of Brussels wouldn't want that as well. And if it went to France or became independent, I'd feel hugely robbed if I were Dutch since its historical Dutch land.

So yeah, guess my suggestion won't happen.

[The Lawspeaker]

I am sure the Brusselaars wouldn't mind it all that much if just made them the capital again because what would they be under France ? Some backwater ?

[TheMaestro]

One part to Dutch one to French.

[Alenka]

Wallonia joining France and Flanders joining the Netherlands.

[Damião de Góis]

Not sure, i think i need to read Septentrion's take on this.

[Dr_Maul]

The ideal future for Belgium would be to change the retarded aspect ratio of the flag. Who in their right mind thought 13:15 was a good idea? Not 1:1, not 2:3, not 4:7, but FUCKING 13:15

[Universe]

Not sure, i think i need to read Septentrion's take on this.

Is he able to comment on anything other than pigmentation and phenotypes?

[Ülev]

Wallonia joining France and Flanders joining the Netherlands.

and....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Deutschsprachige_Gemeinschaft_in_Belgium.svg/1034px-Deutschsprachige_Gemeinschaft_in_Belgium.svg.png

some territories go to Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-speaking_Community_of_Belgium

[The Lawspeaker]

On a personal note: a unified Brabant, Limburg and Flanders would be great way to balance out the Netherlands. That way those arrogant Hollanders will no longer the sole ruling power.

[Samnium]

A future french region.

[Ülev]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Quad_Flandria.jpg/1200px-Quad_Flandria.jpg
bump

[Ülev]

Vlamingen strijden voor Onafhankelijkheid een echt Germaans volk!


https://youtu.be/8Ar3f4c81k4

[Div]

They have massive immigration problems and bicker about trivial matters like this? Truly Europeans of today in a nutshell. The rivalry of the past are but frivolous affairs in presence of the grand elephant in the room.

Reminds of these petty remnant IRA groups that have nothing better to do but quibble about the ills the English have done to them, yea bad shit happened but there's much worse consequences that your country is facing.

[Pierrot]

Partition and then union of Wallonia with France and also of Flanders with the Netherlands.

[Mingle]

On a personal note: a unified Brabant, Limburg and Flanders would be great way to balance out the Netherlands. That way those arrogant Hollanders will no longer the sole ruling power.

Made the map:

https://i.imgur.com/smPPqEB.png?1

Wasn't sure if Walloon Brabant is part of historic Brabant so I wasn't sure if it should've been included or not. Just included it cause of its name, but its pretty easy to remove. I merged Drenthe with Overijssel since they were historically together under the name Oversticht. Groningen speaks East Frisian Saxon (similar to East Frisians of Germany) so I merged it with Friesland cause of their shared Frisian past.

How does it look? Its supposed to represent the historic provinces of the Netherlands.

[Eline]

I don’t understand why non-Belgians are so much interested in the partition of Belgium. Belgium is already a federal state.

And Vlaanderen will not join Nederland. After Napoleon Vlaanderen and Nederland were 1 country. But it didn't work out. We are different from each other. Since 1830 it is a separated state

Also, unification doesn't even matter since both countries are part of the European Union and the BENELUX.

[Jana]

Remain Belgium. Ethno-nationalism is overrated and outdated. Just because Walloons speak French or Flemish Dutch doesn't make them in mentality, way of life or historical experiences kin with other Dutch or French. Pretty sure they would feel alien and different in these countries because they have been their own thing with their own history for enough long time.

Also, screw Republics. Most stable and best countries in Europe are Monarchies. Fuck the French Revolution.

[Eline]

Made the map:?

I don't understand why a Central Asian Pashtun living in America is interested in the partition of Belgium? You gain nothing even if Vlaanderen en Nederland become a country. Your country of origin will still be a third world country.

[The Lawspeaker]

Made the map:

https://i.imgur.com/smPPqEB.png?1

Wasn't sure if Walloon Brabant is part of historic Brabant so I wasn't sure if it should've been included or not. Just included it cause of its name, but its pretty easy to remove. I merged Drenthe with Overijssel since they were historically together under the name Oversticht. Groningen speaks East Frisian Saxon (similar to East Frisians of Germany) so I merged it with Friesland cause of their shared Frisian past.

How does it look? Its supposed to represent the historic provinces of the Netherlands.


Comes close enough but it's not likely that Waals-Brabant would be included. Before the Eighty Years' War, Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeelandic_Flanders) (the area just south of the Westerschelde) use to be part of Flanders as well. The Dutch kept on to it for strategic reasons and now it has been included into Zeeland Province (so if Flanders would rejoin the Netherlands, I'd say that it would be fair if this would be returned to them). Het Oversticht got separated a long time ago into Drenthe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drenthe) and Overijssel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overijssel). Friesland should also be seperated into two provinces: Friesland and Groningen.

[Mingle]

?

I don't understand why a Central Asian Pashtun living in America is interested in the partition of Belgium? You gain nothing even if Vlaanderen en Nederland become a country. Your country of origin will still be a third world country.

Just made the map for fun. I voted for the partition but I don't care if it happens or not.

[Eline]

Just made the map for fun. I voted for the partition but I don't care if it happens or not.What is your problem with Belgium? What do you care whether Vlaanderen en Nederland become 1 country or not.

It was already 1 country in the past, but it dint work out. Dutch people are different from us. I love Dutch people, mostly the Frisians, but we are more refined.

[Eline]

Vlaanderen is a FEDERAL state. And it has already very, very close ties with the Netherlands through the European Union and the BENELUX.

People here are very low educated and don't know what they are talking about. Crazy people!

Btw, don't start about the education, since education in Belgium is 1 of the very best in the whole world.

[Mingle]

What is your problem with Belgium? What do you care whether Vlaanderen en Nederland become 1 country or not.

It was already 1 country in the past, but it dint work out. Dutch people are different from us. I love Dutch people, mostly the Frisians, but we are more refined.

I voted for the partition because I think it makes more sense for countries to be divided based on ethnolinguistics.

But I don't really care if it stays united. I don't have a vested interest in the issue. I wasn't the one that started the thread.

[Eline]

And I like Brussels and Paris much more than Amsterdam!

[The Lawspeaker]

This would come closest to what I would do:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/1815-VerenigdKoninkrijkNederlanden.svg

Except I would diminish Holland's power (eventhough I would reunite North and South like here) by re-uniting Brabant as well as Flanders and Limburg. Zealandic Flanders would go to Flanders as well. If Flanders would rejoin the Netherlands, there would also be no more reason for the Dutch to block either a canal or railway connecting the port of Antwerp to Germany or to prevent it from expanding. In fact: we would have five major ports then: Zeebrugge, Antwerpen, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and the Eemshaven and several smaller ones like the ones at Ghent and Terneuzen, the Moerdijk, Bergen op Zoom, Dordrecht and Den Helder.

Amsterdam should never have been made the capital anyway: it didn't have a political function during the Republic as it was purely due to lobbying. The natural capital of the Netherlands is Brussels and The Hague was just a temporal solution grown permanent.

[Eline]

I voted for the partition because I think it makes more sense for countries to be divided based on ethnolinguistics.

But I don't really care if it stays united. I don't have a vested interest in the issue. I wasn't the one that started the thread.The main Gemanic ancestors of the Dutch (Holland) were the Batavi (Germanic tribe), while we had different Belgae ancestors (a mixture between the Germanic Franks (Nervii) and Celtic tribes such as Menapii).


Do you support the division of Turkey, since Turks as race are much more different from the Kurds than people in Belgium.


People from Antwerp have no issues with people in Brussels

[The Lawspeaker]

^ The Belgae hadn't existed for 2000 years as the Romans slaughtered them into extinction so you're telling us bullshit again. Same goes for the Batavii who got replaced during the Great Migrations. The Dutch and Flemish have exactly the same ancestors: the Franks, in the Eastern part of the Netherlands it's the Saxons and in the North (and partially in the West), the Frisians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg

[The Lawspeaker]

Remain Belgium. Ethno-nationalism is overrated and outdated. Just because Walloons speak French or Flemish Dutch doesn't make them in mentality, way of life or historical experiences kin with other Dutch or French. Pretty sure they would feel alien and different in these countries because they have been their own thing with their own history for enough long time.

Also, screw Republics. Most stable and best countries in Europe are Monarchies. Fuck the French Revolution.


I agree: make Croatia part of Yugoslavia again. Wasn't their king a Serb ?

[Mingle]

The main Gemanic ancestors of the Dutch (Holland) were the Batavi (Germanic tribe), while we had different Belgae ancestors (a mixture between the Germanic Franks (Nervii) and Celtic tribes such as Menapii).

Everyone's mixed. I said I support it because of ethnolinguistics. To me, monoethnic states make more sense than confused multiethnic ones. But both can still prosper (like Switzerland for example) if the circumstances are right.

But if you want to get all ancient history, its probably true that Flemings have closer ancestry with Walloons than with Dutch people from the Netherlands. Genetically, the Netherlands has about three clusters while Belgium is just one cluster.


Do you support the division of Turkey, since Turks as race are much more different from the Kurds than people in Belgium.

That's off topic and I don't see how my answer to that changes anything, but yes.

[Eline]

Waarom ben je tegen België?

Jij gaat je zin niet krijgen. Tijd om op belangrijkere zaken te richten.


Wallonië en Vlaanderen blijven 1 land, namelijk België.

[The Lawspeaker]

Waarom ben je tegen België?

Jij gaat je zin niet krijgen. Tijd om op belangrijkere zaken te richten.


Wallonië en Vlaanderen blijven 1 land, namelijk België.

Luister, vrouwke. Ik ga het je duidelijk maken: of Nederland en Vlaanderen samen doorgaan interesseert mij niets maar jullie kunnen als met de Walen nog niet eens een deugdelijke regering vormen en jullie hebben een paar levensgevaarlijke kerncentrales pal (en ook heel doelbewust) op onze grens gezet (Doel en Tilhange). Jullie riskeren daarmee niet slechts jullie eigen levens maar ook die van ons en dat is door successieve federale (en toen nog nationale regeringen) doelbewust zo opgezet !

België is dus een instabiele staat OP ONZE GRENZEN dus hoe sneller die staat verdwijnt, hoe beter het is voor Nederland, Frankrijk en Duitsland. Jij zelf hebt het over de Benelux ? Die is trouwens al zo goed als dood. Hetzelfde geld trouwens ook voor de EU dus we gaan weer terug in de tijd naar die van stabiele staten. Wat in Nederland's interesse is, is dat Doel en Tilhange z.s.m dichtgaan en - natuurlijk ook dat mocht de zaak danig uit de klauwen lopen, dat we ook de Schelde af kunnen sluiten.

[Mingle]

This would come closest to what I would do:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/1815-VerenigdKoninkrijkNederlanden.svg

Except I would diminish Holland's power (eventhough I would reunite North and South like here) by re-uniting Brabant as well as Flanders and Limburg. Zealandic Flanders would go to Flanders as well. If Flanders would rejoin the Netherlands, there would also be no more reason for the Dutch to block either a canal or railway connecting the port of Antwerp to Germany or to prevent it from expanding. In fact: we would have five major ports then: Zeebrugge, Antwerpen, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and the Eemshaven and several smaller ones like the ones at Ghent and Terneuzen, the Moerdijk, Bergen op Zoom, Dordrecht and Den Helder.

Amsterdam should never have been made the capital anyway: it didn't have a political function during the Republic as it was purely due to lobbying. The natural capital of the Netherlands is Brussels and The Hague was just a temporal solution grown permanent.

Wasn't it made the capital due to being the biggest city in the Ranstad area? Or did the Ranstad area become important after it was made capital? If I'm not mistaken, Holland was by far the most important region of the Netherlands even in the past. I came across some Dutch diaries in Indonesia before where the people called their country Holland due to how important it was. Most English people and other foreigners likely started referring to the Netherlands as "Holland" from at least the end of the Middle Ages.

What's the functional difference between Amsterdam and the Hague? Are both capitals?

[samario]

To be honest, Belgium was Frenchified. The are surrouding Brussels will probably end up speaking French, too. So my best bet would be that the northern part of Flanders go to the Netherlands and the Brussels area and Wallonia to France.

[Eline]

Everyone's mixed. I said I support it because of ethnolinguistics. To me, monoethnic states make more sense than confused multiethnic ones. But both can still prosper (like Switzerland for example) if the circumstances are right.

But if you want to get all ancient history, its probably true that Flemings have closer ancestry with Walloons than with Dutch people from the Netherlands. Genetically, the Netherlands has about three clusters while Belgium is just one cluster.Belgium is already a federation. Maybe there is some 'cold' war (no definitive treaties) in Belgium, but Belgian people are united and live under a monarchy.

Federation is a very good model, think of Canada. Land of the English and French (Quebec) speaking population, and it works very well.

And it doesn't even matter . There is already an administrative division in Belgium We have our own Vlaams Parlement. So, power in Belgium is decentralized.


Also, since Belgium is part of the EU (and BENELUX) it doesn’t matter anymore, since the EU is becoming more important than the nation states.

[The Lawspeaker]

Wasn't it made the capital due to being the biggest city in the Ranstad area? Or did the Ranstad area become important after it was made capital? If I'm not mistaken, Holland was by far the most important region of the Netherlands even in the past. I came across some Dutch diaries in Indonesia before where the people called their country Holland due to how important it was. Most English people and other foreigners likely started referring to the Netherlands as "Holland" from at least the end of the Middle Ages.

What's the functional difference between Amsterdam and the Hague? Are both capitals?


There was no Randstad in those days. That concept only came up well over 100 years later. Amsterdam doesn't, frankly, have a real constitutional role (other than this being the place where the monarch is coronated), The Hague houses all functions of government. And, yes, Holland was very important but that only came to pass DURING the Eighty Years' War, when the Spanish pretty much burned the whole of Flanders and Brabant (including Antwerp - its principal port) to the ground - which was followed by the Dutch closing off the Scheldt river that connects Antwerp to the North Sea. The whole Flemish and Brabantine elite fled to Holland and mingled with the local Holland elite. This created, to make a long story very short, the Dutch Golden Age.

[The Lawspeaker]

Belgium is already a federation. Maybe there is some 'cold' war (no definitive treaties) in Belgium, but Belgian people are united and live under a monarchy.

Federation is a very good model, think of Canada. Land of the English and French (Quebec) speaking population, and it works very well.

And it doesn't even matter . There is already an administrative division in Belgium We have our own Vlaams Parlement. So, power in Belgium is decentralized.


Also, since Belgium is part of the EU (and BENELUX) it doesn’t matter anymore, since the EU is becoming more important than the nation states.


Belgium is so united that you hold the official record in time that it takes to form a government. Neither parties speak each other's language or run for office in the other area. You must be trolling btw as the EU has been in a state of collapse fot the last 10 years. A process which was speeded up by Brexit and now even more during its ineptitude shown during the Covid-crisis.

[The Lawspeaker]

Bloei, o land, in eendracht niet te breken;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932011_Belgian_political_crisis

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regering-Michel_II



Aantreden
9 december (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_december) 2018 (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018)


Ontslagnemend
21 december (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_december) 2018 (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018)


Einddatum
27 oktober (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_oktober) 2019 (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019)




So how many cabinets did you have since 1945 ? Was it more or just a couple less than Italy ? It can't be by much. You used to have a prime minister that started singing the French anthem when he was asked to sing the Belgian one. That would be Yves Leterme for you.

[Eline]

Belgium is so united that you hold the official record in time that it takes to form a government. Neither parties speak each other's language or run for office in the other area. You must be trolling btw as the EU has been in a state of collapse fot the last 10 years. A process which was speeded up by Brexit and now even more during its ineptitude shown during the Covid-crisis.What do you think of Italy then?

The EU will become even more powerful in the future, it is finished with the nation states in Europe!

Nu snap ik het. Je denkt niet in het belang van de Vlamingen, maar het liefst wil je België weghebben in het belang van eigen land (economie). Waarschijnlijk volg je met argusogen hoe de haven van Antwerpen zich positief aan het ontwikkelen is in tegenstelling tot Rotterdam.

Nooit van kerncentrale Borssele gehoord?

[Eline]

It is so funny, non-Belgians who don’t even know where Belgium is on the map think they are professors in the Belgian matters.

[The Lawspeaker]

What do you think of Italy then?


Nu snap ik het. Je denkt niet in het belang van de Vlamingen, maar het liefst wil je België weghebben in het belang van eigen land (economie). Waarschijnlijk volg je met argusogen hoe de haven van Antwerpen zich positief aan het ontwikkelen is in tegenstelling tot Rotterdam.

Nooit van kerncentrale Borssele gehoord?

Borssele ? Dat ding gaat nog sluiten maar het ding is er een stuk beter aan toe dan Doel of Tilhange. Eerst staat Petten op de lijst. En ja: natuurlijk staat ons eigenbelang voorop. Een eigenbelang waar de Vlamingen in zouden kunnen delen door die failliete boel waar ze steeds maar geld aan de PS moeten overmaken failliet te verklaren en eruit te stappen. Terug naar hun eigen mensen. En Antwerpen ontwikkeld zich dan wel redelijk maar het is nog geen Rotterdam en dat gaat het ook niet worden. Maar dat zou het wel worden als Vlaanderen zich bij Nederland aan zou sluiten.

[The Lawspeaker]

It is so funny, non-Belgians who don’t even know where Belgium is on the map think they are professors in the Belgian matters.


I used to live smack on the border.

[The Lawspeaker]

What do you think of Italy then?

The EU will become even more powerful in the future, it is finished with the nation states in Europe!


The EU is already dead. It's bankrupt and has no real way to force states to do its bidding once they rise up. It's in the process of decomposition because those Eurobonds will never pass and the Dutch and Germans will quicker to leave than to sign it and no... the Flemish will likely not be willing to stay in that bankrupt construction either. As for Italy: the only reason why they are still surviving is because the North does what the Flemish do in "Belgium": fund the impoverished corrupt South.

[Laly]

Luister, vrouwke. Ik ga het je duidelijk maken: of Nederland en Vlaanderen samen doorgaan interesseert mij niets maar jullie kunnen als met de Walen nog niet eens een deugdelijke regering vormen en jullie hebben een paar levensgevaarlijke kerncentrales pal (en ook heel doelbewust) op onze grens gezet (Doel en Tilhange). Jullie riskeren daarmee niet slechts jullie eigen levens maar ook die van ons en dat is door successieve federale (en toen nog nationale regeringen) doelbewust zo opgezet !

België is dus een instabiele staat OP ONZE GRENZEN dus hoe sneller die staat verdwijnt, hoe beter het is voor Nederland, Frankrijk en Duitsland. Jij zelf hebt het over de Benelux ? Die is trouwens al zo goed als dood. Hetzelfde geld trouwens ook voor de EU dus we gaan weer terug in de tijd naar die van stabiele staten. Wat in Nederland's interesse is, is dat Doel en Tilhange z.s.m dichtgaan en - natuurlijk ook dat mocht de zaak danig uit de klauwen lopen, dat we ook de Schelde af kunnen sluiten.

[Cristiano viejo]

Real future of Belgium would be joining Spain as a colony after expelling all its immigrants to France and Netherlands.
Paying taxes to Spain should be the main goal of Belgians to not losing the habit.

[The Lawspeaker]

The best situation is this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Provinciewapens_Koninkrijk_der_Nederlanden_1820.sv g


Unite the two Flanders (capital Gent) - transfer Zeeuws-Vlaanderen to Flanders, unite the Brabants and Antwerpen (capital Brussels), transfer Luxembourg to the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg: time to bring back the United Kingdom of the Netherlands.

National capital ? Brussels. Seat of government ? Brussels. Brussels is bi-lingual, let the French-speaking areas speak French and the Dutch-speaking areas speak Dutch (with facilities for both French and Dutch speakers in both parts of the country as well as for Frisian in Frisia and Low Saxon in the East). Let Fland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Flanders)ers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Flanders), Antwerp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antwerp) and Holland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland) focus themselves international trade, politics should be in another part of the country altogether.

[Ülev]

^^
:)

[Windstorm]

The kingdom of Belgium has native population united around a common religious Catholic Christian culture while being divided in ethnic lines. For the last decades, religion has made a comeback as a cultural unifying factor in Europe, it is why Belgium has survived ethnic tensions and has become a symbol of unity at the EU level. However, if Belgium were to come to be split, the domino effect would shake the whole world. A new era of ethnic separatism might follow on global level. Spain, Moldova would be next to be disintegrated. We can presume that Germany and France shall make so that Belgium survives. Otherwise, that shall create further issues among Germans and French such as Alsace and Lorraine issues. The future of whole Europe is linked to the one of Belgium.