Slavs by Gedmatch

[Lemminkäinen]

I had a debate with a Balkan lady, sorry if it went into bad feelings. I decided to test if Balkans are really Slavic. My sample collection includes only Croatian, Albanians and Greeks. I selected Croatians and Greeks and for comparison ordinary Slavs, Poles, Ukrainaians and Russians, additionally Lithuanians although they are not considered as Slavs. I made population averages
using all my ethnic samples without preselection. I probably have most available academic samples.


I used Eurogenes K13. Usually the mixed mode is very debatable and seldom creates true admixtures, so the single population distance list gives best information. If the first population on the list is very distant, it is probably that Eurogenes has used different sample set than me. My Russian set is diverse, but doesn't include North Russians


Polish

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45.57
2 North_Atlantic 28.47
3 West_Med 10.51
4 West_Asian 6.18
5 East_Med 5.08
6 Amerindian 0.96
7 Siberian 0.67
8 Red_Sea 0.67
9 Northeast_African 0.62
10 Oceanian 0.58
11 Sub-Saharan 0.35
12 East_Asian 0.18
13 South_Asian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 2.41
2 Ukrainian 2.89
3 Russian_Smolensk 3.69
4 Southwest_Russian 3.95
5 South_Polish 4.14
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 4.16
7 Estonian_Polish 4.37
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 4.52
9 Belorussian 5.06
10 Kargopol_Russian 8.73
11 Lithuanian 8.84
12 Estonian 9.01
13 Croatian 10.12
14 Finnish 10.98
15 Erzya 11.27
16 Southwest_Finnish 11.54
17 East_Finnish 12.1
18 Moldavian 13.22
19 Hungarian 13.72
20 East_German 14.74

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.4% Lithuanian + 46.6% Croatian @ 1.21
2 65.5% Polish + 34.5% Southwest_Russian @ 1.42
3 57.8% Ukrainian + 42.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.53
4 69% Lithuanian + 31% Serbian @ 1.59
5 70.1% Polish + 29.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.6
6 66.8% Ukrainian + 33.2% Belorussian @ 1.64
7 78.6% Ukrainian + 21.4% Lithuanian @ 1.67
8 57.6% Polish + 42.4% Ukrainian @ 1.68
9 72.8% Lithuanian + 27.2% Romanian @ 1.71
10 75.3% Russian_Smolensk + 24.7% Croatian @ 1.71
11 60.2% Lithuanian + 39.8% Moldavian @ 1.76
12 55.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 44.2% Belorussian @ 1.79
13 63.7% Ukrainian + 36.3% Estonian_Polish @ 1.79
14 53.7% Russian_Smolensk + 46.3% South_Polish @ 1.8
15 69.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 30.2% Lithuanian @ 1.8
16 91.7% Russian_Smolensk + 8.3% North_Italian @ 1.84
17 81.4% Lithuanian + 18.6% Tuscan @ 1.85
18 92.5% Russian_Smolensk + 7.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.88
19 51.6% South_Polish + 48.4% Estonian_Polish @ 1.89
20 51.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.5% Estonian_Polish @ 1.9


Croatian

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.5
2 North_Atlantic 28.95
3 West_Med 13.91
4 East_Med 13.36
5 West_Asian 6.18
6 Red_Sea 1.39
7 Siberian 1.32
8 South_Asian 0.85
9 Oceanian 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.72
2 Croatian 4.86
3 Moldavian 5.79
4 Serbian 6.99
5 Austrian 9.16
6 East_German 9.6
7 South_Polish 10.23
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.45
9 Romanian 11.15
10 Ukrainian 11.38
11 Bulgarian 13.48
12 Polish 13.96
13 Southwest_Russian 14.83
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.43
15 Russian_Smolensk 16.29
16 West_German 16.35
17 Estonian_Polish 16.6
18 Belorussian 16.92
19 South_Dutch 17.7
20 Southwest_Finnish 17.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.6% Belorussian + 40.4% Tuscan @ 1.42
2 53.5% Lithuanian + 46.5% Tuscan @ 2.03
3 60.1% Estonian_Polish + 39.9% Tuscan @ 2.04
4 75.4% Serbian + 24.6% Estonian @ 2.06
5 79% South_Polish + 21% Italian_Jewish @ 2.1
6 74.3% South_Polish + 25.7% West_Sicilian @ 2.12
7 71.7% Serbian + 28.3% Belorussian @ 2.18
8 58.6% Estonian + 41.4% West_Sicilian @ 2.22
9 60.7% Southwest_Russian + 39.3% North_Italian @ 2.25
10 71.3% South_Polish + 28.7% Tuscan @ 2.28
11 60.6% Russian_Smolensk + 39.4% Tuscan @ 2.36
12 71.4% Serbian + 28.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.37
13 60.2% Serbian + 39.8% South_Polish @ 2.39
14 79.2% South_Polish + 20.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.49
15 76.8% Serbian + 23.2% Lithuanian @ 2.49
16 79.3% South_Polish + 20.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.54
17 75.6% Serbian + 24.4% Finnish @ 2.55
18 67.9% Serbian + 32.1% Polish @ 2.56
19 57.3% Bulgarian + 42.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.56
20 75.6% South_Polish + 24.4% Ashkenazi @ 2.58


Russian

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 51.64
2 North_Atlantic 24.15
3 West_Med 7.16
4 West_Asian 5.19
5 East_Med 5.02
6 Siberian 4.1
7 South_Asian 0.66
8 East_Asian 0.59
9 Oceanian 0.52
10 Amerindian 0.45
11 Red_Sea 0.27
12 Northeast_African 0.19
13 Sub-Saharan 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 5.13
2 Estonian_Polish 5.33
3 Erzya 5.45
4 Kargopol_Russian 5.51
5 Belorussian 5.96
6 Russian_Smolensk 6.07
7 Ukrainian_Belgorod 6.12
8 Lithuanian 6.59
9 Estonian 8.99
10 Polish 9.28
11 Ukrainian 9.46
12 East_Finnish 9.49
13 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.72
14 Finnish 10.99
15 South_Polish 11.4
16 Southwest_Finnish 15.05
17 Croatian 16.65
18 Moldavian 18.8
19 La_Brana-1 19.81
20 Hungarian 20.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.7% Erzya + 47.3% Belorussian @ 2.36
2 50.7% Estonian_Polish + 49.3% Erzya @ 2.59
3 56.3% Erzya + 43.7% Lithuanian @ 2.97
4 53.8% Erzya + 46.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.1
5 52.5% Southwest_Russian + 47.5% Erzya @ 3.36
6 68.3% Erzya + 31.7% Polish @ 3.76
7 55.2% Erzya + 44.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.84
8 67.8% Erzya + 32.2% Estonian @ 3.85
9 79.6% Lithuanian + 20.4% Chuvash @ 3.87
10 85.1% Estonian_Polish + 14.9% Chuvash @ 3.89
11 79.6% Lithuanian + 20.4% Tatar @ 4.01
12 88.6% Estonian_Polish + 11.4% Mari @ 4.05
13 82.6% Belorussian + 17.4% Chuvash @ 4.06
14 54.1% Kargopol_Russian + 45.9% Belorussian @ 4.11
15 62.7% Southwest_Russian + 37.3% Lithuanian @ 4.12
16 54.5% Southwest_Russian + 45.5% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.12
17 90.2% Lithuanian + 9.8% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.14
18 52% Estonian_Polish + 48% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.14
19 58.6% Kargopol_Russian + 41.4% Lithuanian @ 4.14
20 84.2% Lithuanian + 15.8% Mari @ 4.22


Lithuanian

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 56.41
2 North_Atlantic 25.81
3 West_Med 6.32
4 West_Asian 4.74
5 East_Med 2.79
6 Siberian 1.1
7 Northeast_African 0.79
8 Red_Sea 0.75
9 East_Asian 0.64
10 Amerindian 0.47
11 Oceanian 0.14
12 South_Asian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lithuanian 4.08
2 Belorussian 7.44
3 Estonian_Polish 7.45
4 Russian_Smolensk 7.95
5 Estonian 9.06
6 Southwest_Russian 9.17
7 Ukrainian_Belgorod 9.29
8 Erzya 9.63
9 Kargopol_Russian 9.72
10 Polish 11.25
11 East_Finnish 11.48
12 Finnish 12.45
13 Ukrainian 12.98
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.36
15 South_Polish 14.53
16 Southwest_Finnish 16.66
17 La_Brana-1 20.39
18 Croatian 20.55
19 Moldavian 23.16
20 North_Swedish 24.31

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.8% Lithuanian + 15.2% Erzya @ 3.76
2 96.7% Lithuanian + 3.3% Chuvash @ 3.99
3 97.9% Lithuanian + 2.1% Mari @ 4.03
4 99.5% Lithuanian + 0.5% Selkup @ 4.07
5 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Abhkasian @ 4.08
6 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.08
7 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Ket @ 4.08
8 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.08
9 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% North_Ossetian @ 4.08
10 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Adygei @ 4.08
11 99.8% Lithuanian + 0.2% She @ 4.08
12 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Hakas @ 4.08
13 99.8% Lithuanian + 0.2% Tujia @ 4.08
14 99.9% Lithuanian + 0.1% Miaozu @ 4.08
15 99.8% Lithuanian + 0.2% Assyrian @ 4.08
16 99.8% Lithuanian + 0.2% Georgian @ 4.08
17 98.3% Lithuanian + 1.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.08
18 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Kabardin @ 4.08
19 99.8% Lithuanian + 0.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.08
20 99.9% Lithuanian + 0.1% Dai @ 4.08


Ukrainian

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.28
2 North_Atlantic 25
3 West_Med 10.44
4 East_Med 6.54
5 West_Asian 6.11
6 Siberian 1.35
7 Amerindian 1.22
8 Red_Sea 1.05
9 South_Asian 0.79
10 Sub-Saharan 0.73
11 Oceanian 0.5

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 2.69
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 3.81
3 Ukrainian 4.09
4 Russian_Smolensk 4.64
5 Estonian_Polish 4.78
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 4.98
7 Polish 5.55
8 Belorussian 6.02
9 South_Polish 6.47
10 Kargopol_Russian 7.96
11 Lithuanian 9.44
12 Erzya 9.44
13 Croatian 10.45
14 Estonian 10.73
15 Finnish 12.68
16 East_Finnish 12.75
17 Moldavian 12.88
18 Southwest_Finnish 14.16
19 Hungarian 14.98
20 East_German 16.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.4% Southwest_Russian + 3.6% Sardinian @ 1.68
2 81.3% Lithuanian + 18.7% Central_Greek @ 2.03
3 85.4% Lithuanian + 14.6% Cyprian @ 2.03
4 96.8% Southwest_Russian + 3.2% Moroccan @ 2.04
5 96.8% Southwest_Russian + 3.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.05
6 85.7% Southwest_Russian + 14.3% Croatian @ 2.08
7 93.1% Estonian_Polish + 6.9% Armenian @ 2.08
8 72.7% Lithuanian + 27.3% Bulgarian @ 2.09
9 96.9% Southwest_Russian + 3.1% Tunisian @ 2.1
10 96.9% Southwest_Russian + 3.1% Algerian @ 2.1
11 78.3% Lithuanian + 21.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.1
12 72.9% Southwest_Russian + 27.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.1
13 67.8% Southwest_Russian + 32.2% Ukrainian @ 2.11
14 93% Estonian_Polish + 7% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.12
15 88.5% Southwest_Russian + 11.5% Moldavian @ 2.13
16 82.9% Lithuanian + 17.1% South_Italian @ 2.13
17 92.7% Estonian_Polish + 7.3% Cyprian @ 2.15
18 93.1% Estonian_Polish + 6.9% Assyrian @ 2.16
19 81.8% Lithuanian + 18.2% East_Sicilian @ 2.18
20 95.8% Southwest_Russian + 4.2% North_Italian @ 2.19


Greek

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.81
2 West_Med 22.57
3 West_Asian 16.23
4 North_Atlantic 14.98
5 Baltic 14.55
6 Red_Sea 2.78
7 East_Asian 0.7
8 Oceanian 0.38

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.93
2 Greek_Thessaly 6.35
3 East_Sicilian 6.95
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.72
5 South_Italian 8.96
6 West_Sicilian 9.79
7 Ashkenazi 10.1
8 Tuscan 13.42
9 Bulgarian 13.47
10 Algerian_Jewish 14.83
11 Italian_Jewish 15.29
12 Sephardic_Jewish 15.41
13 Romanian 16.07
14 North_Italian 18.37
15 Cyprian 18.61
16 Tunisian_Jewish 18.81
17 Libyan_Jewish 19.36
18 Turkish 20.37
19 Serbian 20.47
20 Lebanese_Muslim 22.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.2% Central_Greek + 6.8% Erzya @ 3.81
2 80.9% Central_Greek + 19.1% Bulgarian @ 3.88
3 92.8% Central_Greek + 7.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.9
4 84.6% Greek_Thessaly + 15.4% Armenian @ 3.92
5 92.9% Central_Greek + 7.1% Southwest_Russian @ 3.94
6 89.6% Central_Greek + 10.4% Moldavian @ 3.97
7 92.5% Central_Greek + 7.5% Ukrainian @ 3.98
8 93.5% Central_Greek + 6.5% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.98
9 94.1% Central_Greek + 5.9% Lithuanian @ 3.99
10 93.5% Central_Greek + 6.5% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.02
11 93.6% Central_Greek + 6.4% Estonian_Polish @ 4.03
12 92.5% Central_Greek + 7.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.05
13 91.1% Central_Greek + 8.9% Croatian @ 4.08
14 78.9% Greek_Thessaly + 21.1% Cyprian @ 4.08
15 93.9% Central_Greek + 6.1% Belorussian @ 4.09
16 93.5% Central_Greek + 6.5% Polish @ 4.12
17 58.6% Bulgarian + 41.4% Cyprian @ 4.13
18 93% Central_Greek + 7% South_Polish @ 4.14
19 84.9% Greek_Thessaly + 15.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.15
20 64.5% Central_Greek + 35.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.17

[Jana]

What is not clear to you, old man? Thanks for calling me Balkan lady, very sweet of you :laugh:

[Lemminkäinen]

Croatian distance list:

1 Hungarian 4.72
2 Croatian 4.86
3 Moldavian 5.79
4 Serbian 6.99
5 Austrian 9.16
6 East_German 9.6

[Dušan]

I had a debate with a Balkan lady, sorry if it went into bad feelings. I decided to test if Balkans are really Slavic.

We are absolutely (50-60%) Slavs by autosomal genetics and completely Slavs by language, culture and identity.

[Jana]

Croatian distance list:

1 Hungarian 4.72
2 Croatian 4.86
3 Moldavian 5.79
4 Serbian 6.99
5 Austrian 9.16
6 East_German 9.6

Yeah, and? All of these have significant Slavic ancestry. Or are we Ugric?
In my signature is how I compare to ancient Slavic, Balkan, Med, Celtic, Germanic etc samples.

mixed mode of sample you posted speaks for itself:

59.6% Belorussian + 40.4% Tuscan @ 1.42

[Lemminkäinen]

We are absolutely (50-60%) Slavs by autosomal genetics and completely Slavs by language, culture and identity.

Maybe, I only follow genetic tracks and I need data. As I mentioned the mixed mode is very debatable. For most West and Southwest Finns these modes tend to give 50% German, which is impossible. Look at the distance list; do you think that East Germans and Austrians are half Slavs? I can test them. I can't deny your ancestry, but speaking about genetics I need evidences. All bs I have heard about Finns has made me an expert to see fallacies :)

[Ülev]

Croatia to open its borders for Slovaks, Czechs, Hungarians and Austrians
https://www.croatiaweek.com/croatia-to-open-its-borders-for-slovaks-czechs-hungarians-and-austrians/

Poles not welcome? :rolleyes:

[Jana]

Croatia to open its borders for Slovaks, Czechs, Hungarians and Austrians
https://www.croatiaweek.com/croatia-to-open-its-borders-for-slovaks-czechs-hungarians-and-austrians/

Poles not welcome? :rolleyes:

It depends on agreement between countries. I still can't see Stears because Hungary keeps border closed while Slovenians freely enter Croatia.
nothing to do with like or dislike

[Dušan]

Maybe, I only follow genetic tracks and I need data. As I mentioned the mixed mode is very debatable. For most West and Southwest Finns these modes tend to give 50% German, which is impossible. Look at the distance list; do you think that East Germans and Austrians are half Slavs? I can't deny your ancestry, but speaking about genetics I need evidences. All bs I have heard about Finns has made me an expert to see fallacies :)

The answer is in my signature:

K13 Ancient calculator
Distance: 1.5780% / 1.57799341 | ADC: 0.25x
50.8 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
19.4 scy192_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
17.8 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
8.4 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
3.6 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp


Closest todays population to that ancient samples:

https://i.imgur.com/ct8gE0L.jpg



50,8% Ukrainian + 19,4 Greek Thessaly + 17,8% Greek Thessaly + 8,4% South Polish + 3,6% North Italian


= 59,2% proto-Slav + 40,8% paleo-Balkanite (Vlach)

[Jana]

I am sorry for being rude to the OP.

[Leto]

51% Baltic is kind of high for a Russian average. Such people do exist but they aren't over 50% of the population. It should be 45-47% instead.

[Lemminkäinen]

Croatia to open its borders for Slovaks, Czechs, Hungarians and Austrians
https://www.croatiaweek.com/croatia-to-open-its-borders-for-slovaks-czechs-hungarians-and-austrians/

Poles not welcome? :rolleyes:

Money speaks :)

It is ridiculous that some people think that I deny something if I ask evidences for arguments. I say it now: Croats and Serbs are South Slavs, speak Slavic language and have Slavic ancestry, never denied it. Period.

[Lemminkäinen]

51% Baltic is kind of high for a Russian average. Such people do exist but they aren't over 50% of the population. It should be 45-47% instead.

I use academic samples and at this time K13 Eurogenes. The Baltic result varies and depends on the calculator, it depends on other groups probably including f.ex. Baltic admixture. In these calculators proportions are not fixed.

Maybe I can send you the Russian sample list to check it. If it is biased someway.

[Lucas]

I use academic samples and at this time K13 Eurogenes. The Baltic result varies and depends on the calculator, it depends on other groups probably including f.ex. Baltic admixture. In these calculators proportions are not fixed.

Maybe I can send you the Russian sample list to check it. If it is biased someway.

You pose as someone stick to acadermic samples but in signature you have horoscope results from MTA which tells that you are 50% Scyth... As a Finn.

[vbnetkhio]

As I mentioned the mixed mode is very debatable. For most West and Southwest Finns these modes tend to give 50% German, which is impossible.

it's because of the design of the calculator. k13 isn't designed for Finns to put it short, it only works well for Balts, Scandinavians and those further south.


do you think that East Germans and Austrians are half Slavs?
yes.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Greeks aren't Balkan nor Slav. We are an isolate ethnicity.

[Pɪᴇᴛʀᴏ Cʜᴀʀᴅᴏɴɴᴇ]

Greeks aren't Balkan nor Slav. We are an isolate ethnicity.

The same thing can be said about the Finnish, right?

[Lemminkäinen]

it's because of the design of the calculator. k13 isn't designed for Finns to put it short, it only works well for Balts, Scandinavians and those further south.



Every secon calculator gives me 50% German, but not K13 :)



yes.

You forgot, u have to prove it :)

[Lemminkäinen]

Greeks aren't Balkan nor Slav. We are an isolate ethnicity.


All right, I thought that all people living there are Balkans, lol. Sorry my ignorance.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Balkan_topo_en.jpg/375px-Balkan_topo_en.jpg

[Lemminkäinen]

[/B]

The same thing can be said about the Finnish, right?

Never, we are most mixed people in Europe :cool:

[Lemminkäinen]

51% Baltic is kind of high for a Russian average. Such people do exist but they aren't over 50% of the population. It should be 45-47% instead.

Five samples are unclassified. Here, drop bad ones:


GS000016796-ASM U RusPskov1M
GS000016819-ASM U RusPskov1M
GS000016797-ASM U RusRz1M
HGDP00881 F Russian
HGDP00885 F Russian
HGDP00886 M Russian
S_Russian-1 U Russian1M
S_Russian-2 U Russian1M
RusArch305 M Russians
russianKursk6 M Russians
RussianKursk9 M Russians
RussianKursk15 M Russians
RussianKursk18 M Russians
russianOrjol1 M Russians
RussianOrjol34 M Russians
RussianOrjol45 M Russians
russianOrjol56 M Russians
russianOrjol78 M Russians
russianOrjol89 M Russians
russianOrjol100 F Russians
russianVoron101 M Russians
RussianVoron103 M Russians
RussianVoron105 M Russians
RussianVoron107 M Russians
Russian_Andreapol-1 U Russians
Russian_Andreapol-2 U Russians
Russian_Mezen-1 U Russians
Russian_Mezen-2 U Russians
Russian_Ustyuzhna-1 U Russians
Russian_Ustyuzhna-2 U Russians
Russia_Kostr120 M Russians
Russia_Kostr128 M Russians
Russia_Kostr138 M Russians
Russia_Kostr149 F Russians
Russia_Kostr151 M Russians
Russia_Kostr170 F Russians
Russia_Smol303 F Russians
Russia_Smol304 F Russians
Russia_Smol312 M Russians
Russia_Smol339 M Russians
Russia_Smol345 M Russians
Russia_Smol349 F Russians
Russia_Smol350 F Russians
Russia_Tver415 M Russians
Russia_Tver418 M Russians
Russia_Tver442 M Russians
Russia_Tver472 M Russians

[Lucas]

Five samples are unclassified. Here, drop bad ones:

Russian_Andreapol-1 U Russians
Russian_Andreapol-2 U Russians
Russian_Mezen-1 U Russians
Russian_Mezen-2 U Russians
Russian_Ustyuzhna-1 U Russians
Russian_Ustyuzhna-2 U Russians


You used fastq files (converted to bam I guess later) which are 30 gb each for it???

[Leto]

Five samples are unclassified. Here, drop bad ones:


GS000016796-ASM U RusPskov1M
GS000016819-ASM U RusPskov1M
GS000016797-ASM U RusRz1M
HGDP00881 F Russian
HGDP00885 F Russian
HGDP00886 M Russian
S_Russian-1 U Russian1M
S_Russian-2 U Russian1M
RusArch305 M Russians
russianKursk6 M Russians
RussianKursk9 M Russians
RussianKursk15 M Russians
RussianKursk18 M Russians
russianOrjol1 M Russians
RussianOrjol34 M Russians
RussianOrjol45 M Russians
russianOrjol56 M Russians
russianOrjol78 M Russians
russianOrjol89 M Russians
russianOrjol100 F Russians
russianVoron101 M Russians
RussianVoron103 M Russians
RussianVoron105 M Russians
RussianVoron107 M Russians
Russian_Andreapol-1 U Russians
Russian_Andreapol-2 U Russians
Russian_Mezen-1 U Russians
Russian_Mezen-2 U Russians
Russian_Ustyuzhna-1 U Russians
Russian_Ustyuzhna-2 U Russians
Russia_Kostr120 M Russians
Russia_Kostr128 M Russians
Russia_Kostr138 M Russians
Russia_Kostr149 F Russians
Russia_Kostr151 M Russians
Russia_Kostr170 F Russians
Russia_Smol303 F Russians
Russia_Smol304 F Russians
Russia_Smol312 M Russians
Russia_Smol339 M Russians
Russia_Smol345 M Russians
Russia_Smol349 F Russians
Russia_Smol350 F Russians
Russia_Tver415 M Russians
Russia_Tver418 M Russians
Russia_Tver442 M Russians
Russia_Tver472 M Russians
I don't have the ability to check them.

[Lemminkäinen]

You used fastq files (converted to bam I guess later) which are 30 gb each for it???

Thanks, back tomortow.

No, all samples are mapped by researchers and gathered in Eigenstrat-format. Keep your eyes open and you can find thousands ready samples. Generally I have processed from BAM-filesonly very few ancient samples. During the last year I have processed only ancient yDna BAM-files and my process seems to be reliable

[Lemminkäinen]

I don't have the ability to check them.

No one? Some samples have to be too eastern.

[Leto]

No one? Some samples have to be too eastern.
Are they on Gedmatch? I'm on the phone at the moment.

[vbnetkhio]

Every secon calculator gives me 50% German, but not K13 :)



You forgot, u have to prove it :)

why is the eurogenes k13 mixed mode not a proof?

[vbnetkhio]

Thanks, back tomortow.

No, all samples are mapped by researchers and gathered in Eigenstrat-format. Keep your eyes open and you can find thousands ready samples. Generally I have processed from BAM-filesonly very few ancient samples. During the last year I have processed only ancient yDna BAM-files and my process seems to be reliable

are there any samples from Serbia and the neighbouring countries? except the old ones from the estonian biocentre

[Lemminkäinen]

Are they on Gedmatch? I'm on the phone at the moment.

The average sample is, but I need information about those samples I listed above to make a high quality Russian average. F.ex. Kostroma can be "contamined" by Finno-Ugrics :)

[Leto]

The average sample is, but I need information about those samples I listed above to make a high quality Russian average. F.ex. Kostroma can be "contamined" by Finno-Ugrics :)
I cannot prove their quality just by looking at the names. Kostroma is a fairly Northern region, so their elevated mongoloid/Siberian is normal. The Uralics didn't spring out of the Finnish soil, they came from today's Russia to the Baltic shores (east to west).

[Lemminkäinen]

I cannot prove their quality just by looking at the names. Kostroma is a fairly Northern region, so their elevated mongoloid/Siberian is normal. The Uralics didn't spring out of the Finnish soil, they came from today's Russia to the Baltic shores (east to west).

Not true, they came to Finland from Estonia and Scandinavia.

[XenophobicPrussian]

[/B]

The same thing can be said about the Finnish, right?
Nope, the only post-Iron Age isolate ethnicities in Europe are Sardinians(and that's interior, rural, mountainous Sardinians, Sassari/Cagliari for example would be different) and Basques, maybe Finnish Saami(although definitely not Norwegian Saami). Finns are a simple mix of Balts, Germanics and Saami/Mongs.

[Lemminkäinen]

Nope, the only post-Iron Age isolate ethnicities in Europe are Sardinians(and that's interior, rural, mountainous Sardinians, Sassari/Cagliari for example would be different) and Basques, maybe Finnish Saami(although definitely not Norwegian Saami). Finns are a simple mix of Balts, Germanics and Saami/Mongs.

This is true, the Finns are a very young mixture of populations in Europe. Only Russians beat us in this perspective. The Finns are 700-1500 years old pack, Russians 600-1200 years old.

[Leto]

[/B]

Not true, they came to Finland from Estonia and Scandinavia.
The Ural mountains are not in Estonia, sir.

[Leto]

This is true, the Finns are a very young mixture of populations in Europe. Only Russians beat us in this perspective. The Finns are 700-1500 years old pack, Russians 600-1200 years old.
What do you mean? The Russians are no different from other Europeans who are also a mix of various tribes.

[Lemminkäinen]

What do you mean? The Russians are no different from other Europeans who are also a mix of various tribes.

Are the Finns then? :)

[Leto]

Are the Finns then? :)
I didn't say anything about the Finns. I think they are a pretty old ethnic group, isolated from most of the historical invasions. And also homogenous.

[Lemminkäinen]

I didn't say anything about the Finns. I think they are a pretty old ethnic group, isolated from most of the historical invasions. And also homogenous.

Not true.

[Leto]

Not true.
Why not? Aren't the Finns homogenous and native to Finland?

[Lemminkäinen]

Why not? Aren't the Finns homogenous and native to Finland?

No, the first wave came around 2500-3000 years sgo, but they were not Finnic people, they were Scandinavians and spoke early Germanic language. This is proved thousands times by linguists, all kind of linguists. Archaeology supports it. The first wave of FU people were Saamis who came 2000-2500 years sgo. They knew nothing about reindeers, maybe wild deers. Then around 1700 years ago it happened and the first Finnic people came from Estonia. After that came Russians, Karelians, Swedes, Germans, Gypsies, Sovjet Unionists (I should call the Sovjet refugees), Somalis, Iraqi... IDK all. The most homogeneous group are descendants of Karelians, thanks for the isolation politics of the king Gustav Vasa

[XenophobicPrussian]

No, the first wave came around 2500-3000 years sgo, but they were not Finnic people, they were Scandinavians and spoke early Germanic language. This is proved thousands times by linguists, all kind of linguists. Archaeology supports it. The first wave of FU people were Saamis who came 2000-2500 years sgo. They knew nothing about reindeers, maybe wild deers. Then around 1700 years ago it happened and the first Finnic people came from Estonia. After that came Russians, Karelians, Swedes, Germans, Gypsies, Sovjet Unionists, Somalis, Iraqi... IDK all. The most homogeneous group are descendants of Karelians, thanks for the isolation politics of the king Gustav Vasa

edit: I'm an idiot, you're right, misread 2500-3000 years ago as BC

[Lucas]

No, the first wave came around 2500-3000 years sgo, but they were not Finnic people, they were Scandinavians and spoke early Germanic language. This is proved thousands times by linguists, all kind of linguists. Archaeology supports it. The first wave of FU people were Saamis who came 2000-2500 years sgo. They knew nothing about reindeers, maybe wild deers. Then around 1700 years ago it happened and the first Finnic people came from Estonia. After that came Russians, Karelians,

There were also Siberian (Khanty, Mansi like) immigrants (proven by recent genetic studies of ancients from Kola), you included them as Saami part?

[Leto]

No, the first wave came around 2500-3000 years sgo, but they were not Finnic people, they were Scandinavians and spoke early Germanic language. This is proved thousands times by linguists, all kind of linguists. Archaeology supports it. The first wave of FU people were Saamis who came 2000-2500 years sgo. They knew nothing about reindeers, maybe wild deers. Then around 1700 years ago it happened and the first Finnic people came from Estonia. After that came Russians, Karelians, Swedes, Germans, Gypsies, Sovjet Unionists (I should call the Sovjet refugees), Somalis, Iraqi... IDK all. The most homogeneous group are descendants of Karelians, thanks for the isolation politics of the king Gustav Vasa
I don't think that's accurate. You are repeating what leftists usually say in Europe. They say we're all mixed and not really native, therefore there's no right to oppose immigration and multiculturalism. So I'm here actually defending the Finns' nativeness and uniqueness just like any other people's.

[Leto]

Finland used to be a extremely homogenous country with practically zero immigration up until the 1990s, so that's certainly bullshit. Just because a few Iraqis or Africans or whoever else have come over there in the last 10-20 years doesn't mean it's a country of immigrants and has no native inhabitants.

[we92]

Greeks aren't Balkan nor Slav. We are an isolate ethnicity.

Greece is a Balkan country since it is located in Balkans.

[Lemminkäinen]

The Ural mountains are not in Estonia, sir.

I know. And IE- speaking America is not in East European Steppe.

[Lemminkäinen]

There were also Siberian (Khanty, Mansi like) immigrants (proven by recent genetic studies of ancients from Kola), you included them as Saami part?

No, they have not proven that BOO-samples are ancestral for Khanty or Mansi, neither linguists tell about them. But yrah, BOO- people are by yDna ancestral for Balts

[Lemminkäinen]

I don't think that's accurate. You are repeating what leftists usually say in Europe. They say we're all mixed and not really native, therefore there's no right to oppose immigration and multiculturalism. So I'm here actually defending the Finns' nativeness and uniqueness just like any other people's.

You defend false ideas. Read f.ex. linguists Petri Kallio, J. Koivulehto and Aikio (Saami). Something ad hoc:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Finnish_terms_derived_from_Proto-Germanic

You know practically nothing about Finnish prehistory and it is much more than most of us. :)

[Lemminkäinen]

Finland used to be a extremely homogenous country with practically zero immigration up until the 1990s, so that's certainly bullshit. Just because a few Iraqis or Africans or whoever else have come over there in the last 10-20 years doesn't mean it's a country of immigrants and has no native inhabitants.

Not true.

Speaking about Sfticsns and Middle Easterners, they form sbout 20% of the Helsinki population. In the east more.

[Leto]

Not true.

Speaking about Sfticsns and Middle Easterners, they form sbout 20% of the Helsinki population. In the east more.
So what? They are not native, they are recent immigrants let in by your liberal traitorous government. Who the fuck cares. Are Pakistanis native to London? Are Turks or Kurds native to Berlin? Lol.
I don't wanna waste my time arguing with an old leftist. If you aren't a nationalist and don't care about your ethnic group and country, why do you even care if someone supposedly spreads misinformation about them.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Greece is a Balkan country since it is located in Balkans.

No. It's not as simple as that. Balkan are connected through similar culture and history, Yugoslavia, language etc. Greece has literally nothing to do with anything north of their borders. It is not generally considered Balkan because of this. Besides our islands are not part of the Balkan peninsula.

[Leto]

Scandinavians are truly pathetic shit libs who have sold their people and heritage down the river. Yet those fuckers keep saying "muh Russia". Lol. You are your own worst enemies. Countries run by stupid feminists and homosexuals.

[Jana]

No. It's not as simple as that. Balkan are connected through similar culture and history, Yugoslavia, language etc. Greece has literally nothing to do with anything north of their borders. It is not generally considered Balkan because of this. Besides our islands are not part of the Balkan peninsula.

No they aren't. What are cultural similarities of Croatia with Kosovo, of Slovenia with Macedonia? None.
Albanian and Romanian language are not similar to Slavic ones either.

Greece shares lot more history with Balkans than Croatia does, and you spread your religion to them. You spent centuries togheder in Byzantine and Ottoman Empires.
How is Yugoslavia so relevant? It lasted 75 years. Can Greece be considered middle eastern because it spend almost 500 years under Ottomans?

Slavic country like Bulgaria shares lot more history and cultural influences with Greece than with Croatia, with us they share nothing apart from being Slavic.
Deal with it.

And we have thousand of islands too. Mianland Greece is only peninsular part of SE Europe as well.

[Rgvgjhvv]

No they aren't. What are cultural similarities of Croatia with Kosovo, of Slovenia with Macedonia? None.
Albanian and Romanian language are not similar to Slavic ones either.

Greece shares lot more history with Balkans than Croatia does, and you spread your religion to them. You spent centuries togheder in Byzantine and Ottoman Empires.
How is Yugoslavia so relevant? It lasted 75 years. Can Greece be considered middle eastern because it spend almost 500 years under Ottomans?

Slavic country like Bulgaria shares lot more history and cultural influences with Greece than with Croatia, with us they share nothing apart from being Slavic.
Deal with it.

And we have thousand of islands too. Mianland Greece is only peninsular part of SE Europe as well.

Being Slavic is a big deal. It's what ties you all together. There's nothing that ties us from anyone else together. That's the difference. Being Slavic is an identity. You share it with most every Balkan nation. The area developed similarly historically than Greece did because of your shared identity. You can search and bicker for a connection if you want, and equally do the same to try and separate Croatia from the rest of your Slavic cousins but my opinion won't change. This is the majority opinion of most people in the world. You have no case whatsoever to connect us to Slavs and as a solely Balkan nation other than being a troll. If you want to argue for your own country - go ahead. I will not stop you and I'll actually listen to your argument, respectfully.

[Lemminkäinen]

Scandinavians are truly pathetic shit libs who have sold their people and heritage down the river. Yet those fuckers keep saying "muh Russia". Lol. You are your own worst enemies. Countries run by stupid feminists and homosexuals.

So if I don't believe pathetic Russian propaganda, I am my own enemy. I put it like this: I like Russians, they are good and decent people and they don't deserve what the world politics now serve, but if you tell me who I am, do it politely and in a sensible way or it turns out to be against you. Don't ruin your opportunity in Europe.

[Jana]

Being Slavic is a big deal. It's what ties you all together. There's nothing that ties us from anyone else together. That's the difference. Being Slavic is an identity. You share it with most every Balkan nation. The area developed similarly historically than Greece did because of your shared identity. You can search and bicker for a connection if you want, and equally do the same to try and separate Croatia from the rest of your Slavic cousins but my opinion won't change. This is the majority opinion of most people in the world. You have no case whatsoever to connect us to Slavs and as a solely Balkan nation other than being a troll. If you want to argue for your own country - go ahead. I will not stop you and I'll actually listen to your argument, respectfully.

Except I am very proud of being Slavic. But Croatia has lot more shared history than non-Slavic speaking Hungary than with Balkan Slavic countries, that's a fact,. We have been almost 9 centuuries in personal Union togheder, share much more culturally than with any orthodox nation. Just like Slovenians do with non Slavic speaking Austrians.

Most Balkan country is Albania in terms of original heritage and genetics, and guess what they are not Slavic.

[Leto]

So if I don't believe pathetic Russian propaganda, I am my own enemy. I put it like this: I like Russians, they are good and decent people and they don't deserve what the world politics now serve, but if you tell me who I am, do it politely and in a sensible way or it turns out to be against you. Don't ruin your opportunity in Europe.
What propaganda? Russians don't care about Finland, no one wants to associate themselves with Finns, stop implying that bullshit. Finland is a rather unimportant country, written language only after the 1500s and no great history to steal. The Russians are a much bigger and influential nation with a richer culture and history.
If you have no problem with Somalis and Arabs in Finland, you shouldn't have a problem with Russians either who are white and not Muslim and don't have 5 kids. But hating Russians is allowed, it's not racism and xenophobia which would be the case with non-whites.
Please leave Slavs and my fucking people alone, you old leftist. I've never said one bad word about Finland on this forum, only you guys keep insulting me just because of my ethnic background.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Except I am very proud of being Slavic. But Croatia has lot more shared history than non-Slavic speaking Hungary than with Balkan Slavic countries, that's a fact,. We have been almost 9 centuuries in personal Union togheder, share much more culturally than with any orthodox nation. Just like Slovenians do with non Slavic speaking Austrians.

Serbia?

[Jana]

Serbia?

What about Serbia?

[Rgvgjhvv]

What about Serbia?

Croatia is more similar to Hungary than Serbia?

[Jana]

Croatia is more similar to Hungary than Serbia?

Why would it be more similar to Serbia? This question is so absurd so I am trying to understand why you ask it in the first place.

[Leto]

Why would it be more similar to Serbia? This question is so absurd so I am trying to understand why you ask it in the first place.
The same language and a similar culture, no?

[Rgvgjhvv]

Why would it be more similar to Serbia? This question is so absurd so I am trying to understand why you ask it in the first place.

Really? Lol, interesting. Okay.

[Lemminkäinen]

So what? They are not native, they are recent immigrants let in by your liberal traitorous government. Who the fuck cares. Are Pakistanis native to London? Are Turks or Kurds native to Berlin? Lol.
I don't wanna waste my time arguing with an old leftist. If you aren't a nationalist and don't care about your ethnic group and country, why do you even care if someone supposedly spreads misinformation about them.

I only answers to you. You wrote


Just because a few Iraqis or Africans or whoever else have come over there in the last 10-20 years doesn't mean it's a country of immigrants and has no native inhabitants.



So I told you what means "a few".
Just try to keep even once your ideas near the reality.

Most Native Finns are West Finns identified by yDna I1, because they are the genetically oldest group. Youngest group is Karelians, whose genetic age is below 1000 years. Finland Swedes are also below 1000 years.

[Jana]

The same language and a similar culture, no?

Language yes, culture no. Catholic and Orthodox cultures are different sphere.
And language became same only in 19th century.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Language yes, culture no. Catholic and Orthodox cultures are different sphere.
And language became same only in 19th century.

I think many would agree Greeks and Italians are similar culturally, so not sure if I agree with that point in every case.

[Jana]

Really? Lol, interesting. Okay.

Lol? You wouldn't ask that if you knew the fact Croatia and Serbia shared no ties at all until 1918 and than until 1991.
So, we share several centuries less of common history than Serbs do with Greeks or Greeks do with Turks.

Should I remind of the fact Serbian Emperor had title of Emperor of Serbs and Greeks during height of Serbian Empire?

[Lemminkäinen]

What propaganda? Russians don't care about Finland, no one wants to associate themselves with Finns, stop implying that bullshit. Finland is a rather unimportant country, written language only after the 1500s and no great history to steal. The Russians are a much bigger and influential nation with a richer culture and history.
If you have no problem with Somalis and Arabs in Finland, you shouldn't have a problem with Russians either who are white and not Muslim and don't have 5 kids. But hating Russians is allowed, it's not racism and xenophobia which would be the case with non-whites.
Please leave Slavs and my fucking people alone, you old leftist. I've never said one bad word about Finland on this forum, only you guys keep insulting me just because of my ethnic background.

What is this and how this is related to what I wrote, I don't know.

[Jana]

I think many would agree Greeks and Italians are similar culturally, so not sure if I agree with that point in every case.

Because south Italians have lot of Greek ties both ancient and modern and islander/coastal Greeks are culturally Med.
In that Greece is indeed unique.

[PaleoEuropean]

I am sorry for being rude to the OP.

Europeans should fight each other, the real enemy is the migrants.

[Jana]

Anyway, people need to separate origins and culture. By origins South Slavs are very related, by culture they are not.
Muslim Bosniaks are culturally closer to Turks than to catholic Croats and orthodox Serbs, and in BiH all 3 nations are genetically the same more or less.

[Leto]

What is this and how this is related to what I wrote, I don't know.
Okay, let's leave it at that. I don't want any more spam and personal attacks. You probably don't believe the Uralic languages originated in today's Russia and consider it Russian propaganda. I don't believe that but to me it's not a controversy at all, I thought it was just common knowledge.

[Jana]

Okay, let's leave it at that. I don't want any more spam and personal attacks. You probably don't believe the Uralic languages originated in today's Russia and consider it Russian propaganda. I don't believe that but to me it's not a controversy at all, I thought it was just common knowledge.

Yeah, Finno-Ugrics are native to Russia. Even Stears elderly parents knew this, they told me their language and people come from Russia.

[Lemminkäinen]

Okay, let's leave it at that. I don't want any more spam and personal attacks. You probably don't believe the Uralic languages originated in today's Russia and consider it Russian propaganda. I don't believe that but to me it's not a controversy at all, I thought it was just common knowledge.

Uralic language came from east, from an area nowadays called Russia, but Finns didn't and only a fraction of Iron Age Finns spoke Finnic language called North Baltic Finnic, to make difference to the South Baltic Finnic that was spoken in Estonia and Livonia.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Lol? You wouldn't ask that if you knew the fact Croatia and Serbia shared no ties at all until 1918 and than until 1991.
So, we share several centuries less of common history than Serbs do with Greeks or Greeks do with Turks.


I literally know nothing lol. I'm listening like I said. Not the answer I was expecting though. Not sure if I should take it seriously or if it's biased beyond belief.

[Leto]

Uralic language came from east, from an area nowadays called Russia, but Finns didn't and only a fraction of Iron Age Finns spoke Finnic language called North Baltic Finnish, to make difference to the South Baltic Finnish that was spoken in Estonia and Livonia.
Well, in my understanding Estonians have only a minor Uralic impact. They are less Siberian than Finns and Northern Russian. I guess they're largely Baltic language shifters.

@Lemminkäinen, can you provide a new Gedmatch average for Estonians?

[Jana]

I literally know nothing lol. I'm listening like I said. Not the answer I was expecting though. Not sure if I should take it seriously or if it's biased beyond belief.

Why don't you open any historical article instead of trolling? :picard2:

[Rgvgjhvv]

Why don't you open any historical article instead of trolling? :picard2:

I'm not trolling. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being bias. We are all bias. Personal opinions can't be discluded in these types of discussions. They're important and mean something.

[Jana]

Well, in my understanding Estonians have only a minor Uralic impact. They are less Siberian than Finns and Northern Russian. I guess they're largely Baltic language shifters.

Are we certain original Finnics were largerly Siberian though? I read some paper which stated proto-Finnics came to Finland from Estonia and than absorbed native Saami. If such hypothesis was true it could mean most of east Eurasian in Finns comes from Saami, not proto-Finnics and than Estonians are purer Finnic than Finns.

But I admit in such case I don't understand why would proto-Finns be so genetically similar to IE Balts.

[Jana]

I'm not trolling. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being bias. We are all bias. Personal opinions can't be discluded in these types of discussions. They're important and mean something.

Stating Croatia has no ties or shared history with Serbia until 1918 is well known fact, not a bias. Also is a fact Emperor Dušan had title tzar of Serbs and Greeks.
You can show us differently if you don't mind.

Stefan Dušan. ... listen)), known as Dušan the Mighty (Serbian: Душан Силни / Dušan Silni; 26 July 1308 – 20 December 1355), was the King of Serbia from 8 September 1331 and Tsar (or Emperor) and autocrat of the Serbs and Greeks (or Romans) from 16 April 1346 until his death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Du%C5%A1an

[Lemminkäinen]

Well, in my understanding Estonians have only a minor Uralic impact. They are less Siberian than Finns and Northern Russian. I guess they're largely Baltic language shifters.

Because those Finnics who crossed the Gulf of Finland and came to Finland mixed with Saamis, as well as those ancient Germanic people in Finland. They do mixed with Saamis. I think that you don't read my texts, you don't read those Finnish scientists I recommended? F.ex. Finnish I1 came from Southern Scandinavia and they, like me, have now Siberian by Saami. Read the following study. Saamis and Scandinavians were buried to same place.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07483-5


Everything is clear if you only want to receive to you new information.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Stating Croatia has no ties or shared history with Serbia until 1918 is well known fact, not a bias. Also is a fact Emperor Dušan had title tzar of Serbs and Greeks.
You can show us differently if you don't mind.

Stefan Dušan. ... listen)), known as Dušan the Mighty (Serbian: Душан Силни / Dušan Silni; 26 July 1308 – 20 December 1355), was the King of Serbia from 8 September 1331 and Tsar (or Emperor) and autocrat of the Serbs and Greeks (or Romans) from 16 April 1346 until his death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Du%C5%A1an

I mean, I don't care lol. I was asking a question but expecting a different answer. That could mean I was wrong and I'm okay with that. I would like to hear other Croatian/Serbian opinions though.

[Lemminkäinen]

Well, in my understanding Estonians have only a minor Uralic impact. They are less Siberian than Finns and Northern Russian. I guess they're largely Baltic language shifters.

Because those Finnics who crossed the Gulf of Finland and came to Finland mixed with Saamis, as well as those ancient Germanic people in Finland. They do mixed with Saamis. I think that you don't read my texts, you don't read those Finnish scientists I recommended? F.ex. Finnish I1 came from Southern Scandinavia and they, like me, have now Siberian by Saami. Read the following study. Saamis and Scandinavians were buried to same place.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07483-5


Everything is clear if you only want to receive to you new information.

[Jana]

I mean, I don't care lol. I was asking a question but expecting a different answer. That could mean I was wrong and I'm okay with that. I would like to hear other Croatian/Serbian opinions though.

Facts>>>Opinions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Croatia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Serbia

Cheers. :)

[Rgvgjhvv]

Facts>>>Opinions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Croatia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Serbia

Cheers. :)

Lol, you're not understanding what I'm saying. Whatever

[Leto]

Because those Finnics who crossed the Gulf of Finland and came to Finland mixed with Saamis, as well as those ancient Germanic people in Finland. They do mixed with Saamis. I think that you don't read my texts, you don't read those Finnish scientists I recommended? F.ex. Finnish I1 came from Southern Scandinavia and they, like me, have now Siberian by Saami. Read the following study. Saamis and Scandinavians were buried to same place.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07483-5


Everything is clear if you only want to receive to you new information.
Oh yes, I did read that one. The Saami used to inhabit Southern Finland but were subsequently pushed up to the North by later incomers from Estonia.

[Lemminkäinen]

Oh yes, I did read that one. The Saami used to inhabit Southern Finland but were subsequently pushed up to the North by later incomers from Estonia.

Men were pushed to north, not pretty Saami women :) In the Iron Age the law and justice were done by sword.

[Vojnik]

The coat of arms of Tsar Dusan. 15th century:

https://scontent.fsyd3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35898652_280241905853357_4136025240868225024_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkeR4sqt1izAUE-hs8IN4kVxHCkPhsVnmu74B6XPLODSUp2G81jIOw0Xe1EVaBwcq I&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd3-1.fna&oh=657b9c9f0ef58138302f8bf3933e4dc7&oe=5EEBC9F1

1.Macedonia
2.Bosnia/Illyria
3.Dalmatia
4.Croatia
5.Slavonia
6.Bulgaria/Thracian
7.Serbia
8.Rascia
9.Primordia

And:

https://scontent.fsyd3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36176747_283517685525779_5393753911821598720_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_oc=AQnVu4STdftMCsmoJVsfh0napYy4PKNvX-skAxtU0yex-0YRZmq6R6Yo245E0HodsXw&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd3-1.fna&oh=0e8defadc18554e3a17e1a3aa9e7e4ac&oe=5EEF0CC4


(Code of) the honorable and Christ-loving Macedonian Tsar Stefan, Serbian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Dalmatian, Arbanasian, Hungarian, Wallachian and independent ruler of many other regions and lands...
Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949).


TITO DID IT!

[Leto]

Men were pushed to north, not pretty Saami women :) In the Iron Age the law and justice were done by sword.
Isn't mtDNA of Finns almost exclusively West Eurasian?

[Jana]

The coat of arms of Tsar Dusan. 15th century:

https://scontent.fsyd3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35898652_280241905853357_4136025240868225024_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkeR4sqt1izAUE-hs8IN4kVxHCkPhsVnmu74B6XPLODSUp2G81jIOw0Xe1EVaBwcq I&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd3-1.fna&oh=657b9c9f0ef58138302f8bf3933e4dc7&oe=5EEBC9F1

1.Macedonia
2.Bosnia/Illyria
3.Dalmatia
4.Croatia
5.Slavonia
6.Bulgaria/Thracian
7.Serbia
8.Rascia
9.Primordia

And:

https://scontent.fsyd3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36176747_283517685525779_5393753911821598720_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_oc=AQnVu4STdftMCsmoJVsfh0napYy4PKNvX-skAxtU0yex-0YRZmq6R6Yo245E0HodsXw&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd3-1.fna&oh=0e8defadc18554e3a17e1a3aa9e7e4ac&oe=5EEF0CC4


Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949).


TITO DID IT!

Absolute falsification. No Croatian or Bosnian lands have ever been part of Dušan Empire. See any map or encyclopedia article about that.

Lmao.

What you posted is sick.

[Vojnik]

Absolute falsification. No Croatian or Bosnian lands have ever been part of Dušan Empire. See any map or encyclopedia article about that.

Lmao.

What you posted is sick.


Pointing out Macedonian part of it. Don't care about the rest.

[Jana]

Pointing out Macedonian part of it. Don't care about the rest.

Don't post crap and fantasy stuff. Macedonia was indeed part of Serbian Empire.

[Vojnik]

Don't post crap and fantasy stuff. Macedonia was indeed part of Serbian Empire.

Obviously. Coronation of Dusan was in Skopje.


https://uploads6.wikiart.org/images/alphonse-mucha/the-coronation-of-the-serbian-tsar-stepan-dusan-as-east-roman-emperor-1926.jpg!Large.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/23/e3/6b23e3071d0e6d07f97ddf4a86892163.jpg

[Lemminkäinen]

Isn't mtDNA of Finns almost exclusively West Eurasian?

We have a high U5a/U5b distribution, which is considered as a HG haplogroup. Today also H is common, but IA Finns showed high U4 distribution (U4a?). Only 2 of 6 high Siberian BOO (Kola) belonged to East Eurasian types, none of Iron Age Saami. Today U5b is common among Saamis. I could search studies, but you can do it yourself too. Anyway Saamis mostly belong to "western" HGs. This is not new scientific info, mostly 10-20 years old.


Classification of the Sami mtDNA lineages revealed that the majority are clustered in a subset of the European mtDNA pool. The two haplogroups V and U5b dominate, between them accounting for about 89% of the total. This gives the Sami regions the highest level of Haplogroups V and U5b thus far found. Both haplogroups V and U5b are spread at moderate frequencies across Europe, from Iberia to the Ural Mountains. Haplogroups H, D5 and Z represent most of the remaining averaged total. Overall 98% of the Sami mtDNA pool is encompassed within haplogroups V, U5b, H, Z, and D5. Local frequencies among the Sami vary.[2]



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Sami

[Dušan]

Obviously. Coronation of Dusan was in Skopje.


https://uploads6.wikiart.org/images/alphonse-mucha/the-coronation-of-the-serbian-tsar-stepan-dusan-as-east-roman-emperor-1926.jpg!Large.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/23/e3/6b23e3071d0e6d07f97ddf4a86892163.jpg

Yes, Skoplje was capital of Serbia in that period of history.

[JohnnyP]

Obviously. Coronation of Dusan was in Skopje.


https://uploads6.wikiart.org/images/alphonse-mucha/the-coronation-of-the-serbian-tsar-stepan-dusan-as-east-roman-emperor-1926.jpg!Large.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/23/e3/6b23e3071d0e6d07f97ddf4a86892163.jpg

Car Dusan Makedonski !
https://i.imgur.com/Gbbjli4.jpg
"Historia Turcica" states that Tsar Dusan is the king of the Macedonians and Rashans, ie. original:
“Macedonum Rasianorum Caesar“ (Historia Turcica (1502), Municipal Library in Nuremberg (pressmark Ms Solger 31.2В°).

[Vojnik]

Car Dusan Makedonski !
https://i.imgur.com/Gbbjli4.jpg
"Historia Turcica" states that Tsar Dusan is the king of the Macedonians and Rashans, ie. original:
“Macedonum Rasianorum Caesar“ (Historia Turcica (1502), Municipal Library in Nuremberg (pressmark Ms Solger 31.2В°).


Yeah. Tito had a time machine and did that. :rolleyes:

[JohnnyP]

Yeah. Tito had a time machine and did that. :rolleyes:

ALso In the medieval song about Gjuragj Smederevac, he is sung as a Macedonian king from Macedonia - Smederevo.
https://i.imgur.com/X0FUPCq.jpg
There were not BALKAN peninsula it was Macedonian peninsula!

СИТЕ СТЕ МАКЕДОНЦИ НАШИ БРАЌААА! :)

[Vojnik]

ALso In the medieval song about Gjuragj Smederevac, he is sung as a Macedonian king from Macedonia - Smederevo.
https://i.imgur.com/X0FUPCq.jpg
There were not BALKAN peninsula it was Macedonian peninsula!

СИТЕ СТЕ МАКЕДОНЦИ НАШИ БРАЌААА! :)

"v stranih mahedonskih"

[Dušan]

Serb ruled over Macedonia, you can call him your ruler. :)

[JohnnyP]

Serb ruled over Macedonia, you can call him your ruler. :)

He declaring like Macedonian tsar together with his grandfather Stefan Milutin 1299 , МАКЕДОНСКИИ ЦАР! Not Serbian :)

[Dušan]

He declaring like Macedonian tsar together with his grandfather Stefan Milutin 1299 , МАКЕДОНСКИИ ЦАР! Not Serbian :)

:rofl_002:


The Serbian Empire (Serbian: Српско царство / Srpsko carstvo) is a historiographical term for the empire in the Balkan peninsula that emerged from the medieval Serbian Kingdom. It was established in 1346 by King Stefan Dušan, known as "the Mighty", who significantly expanded the state. Under Dušan's rule Serbia was the major power in the Balkans, and a multi-lingual empire that stretched from the Danube to the Gulf of Corinth, with its capital in Skopje.[1] He also promoted the Serbian Archbishopric to the Serbian Patriarchate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Empire

[Vojnik]

Macedonian, Serbian. Whatever. Christian Balkan Slavic King we can all be proud of.

[JohnnyP]

:rofl_002:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Empire
Bratski moj , WIKIPEDIA :D


I u trećoj svojoj knjizi 1538. Božidar Vuković ponavlja istu sintagmu. Vuk St. Karadžić je ovu formulaciju Božidara Vukovića objasnio tako što:


''su se Maćedonija zvale sve zemlje našega naroda, kao što se i u narodnoj pjesmi... Đurađ Smederevac zove kralj od Maćedonije''...


Kaluđeri crnogorskoga manastira Morače 1615. Pišu da je njihov manastir:


''v oblasti hercegovskoj v zapadnih strana i predjelah maćedonskih'' (dr Jevto M. Milović, Zbornik dokumenata iz istorije Crne Gore (1685-1728), Istorijski institut NR Crne gore, Cetinje, 1956)



Takođe, pismo vladike-gospodara Danila Petrovića ruskom caru Petru Velikom od 28. Januara 1712. Završava se ovako:


''Iz Crne Gore u Makedoniji'' ili prikladniji prijevod ,, Iz Crne Gore regije (pokrajine) u Makedoniji'', a na italijanskom: ''Scritto de montenegro della regione di Macedonia'' (isto). - птревод: Oд регионот на Македонија.




Samo tako se može pojmiti stav iz, inače galimatijasne, Povijesti o skenderbegu Crnojeviću na svetom krštenju nazvanom Đurađ, Martina Skadarskoga, odnosno njezinoga prijevoda sa latinskog i prepis vladike Vasilija da je:


''Ivan Kastriot Crnojević iz roda kraljeva makedonskih'' (dr B. Šekularac, Cetinjski ljetopis, isto).



Nakon povratka iz Crne Gore, ruski pukovnik Mihailo Miloradović (rodom iz Hercegovine) 1712. Potpisuje se u svojijem pismima kao:


''polkovnik i kavaler makedonski''.



U Beču je 15.12. 1714. Izdat pasoš vladici-gospodaru crnogorskom Danilu Petroviću na kojem piše da je:


Danilo ''biskup iz Makedonje... Sa Cetinja ''.



U pismu crnogorskijeh glavara od 8.9.1742. Ruskoj carici također se pominje sintagma:


''v predjelu makedonskom'' (Marko Dragović, Materijal za istoriju Crne Gore vremena mitropolita Danila, Save i Vasilije Petrovića u Spomeniku 25, 2).



U odgovoru od 10. 5. 1744. Ruska carica, također, otpozdravlja sa istom sintagmom (isto, 7). I u pismu mitropolita Save i crnogorskijeh glavara od 25. 5. 1752. Ruskoj carici pominje se:


''...v svih stranah makedonskih'' (isto, 9).


For Gjorgji Skenderbeg i dont want even to speak...
Ти си брат наш Македонски , со малку гени од АУСТРО-УНГРАРИЈА :)