Poles vs East Slavs: Who's more genetically closest to Early Slavs?

[Skeleton]

Poles vs East Slavs: Who's more genetically closest to Early Slavs?

[Ülev]

Yugoslavs
(also extinct)

[Brutus]

We don't have any archaic samples of an early slav (very early periods) as far as I am aware. If I had to guess I would say the East slavs would be closer (a rough guess).

[Jana]

We don't have any archaic samples of an early slav (very early periods) as far as I am aware. If I had to guess I would say the East slavs would be closer (a rough guess).

Yes we have. Answer is here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316531-Balto-Slavic-scale

Ukrainians are closest to early Slavic samples.

[Brutus]

Yes we have. Answer is here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316531-Balto-Slavic-scale

Ukrainians are closest to early Slavic samples.
Well then I'm clearly wrong. But perhaps we should wait for more samples to come out for more data.

[cass]

What was the early Slavic sample?

[Jana]

What was the early Slavic sample?

There are 4 with autosomal DNA. One from Czech Republic, one from medieval Russia and 2 from Hungary (culturally Avar)

[Skeleton]

There are 4 with autosomal DNA. One from Czech Republic, one from medieval Russia and 2 from Hungary (culturally Avar)

Didn’t the one from Czechia show genetic continuity to the Czech Bell Beakers?
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/two-early-slavs-from-bohemia.html?m=1

[Jana]

Didn’t the one from Czechia show genetic continuity to the Czech Bell Beakers?
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/two-early-slavs-from-bohemia.html?m=1

No. It is closest to modern day western Slavs.

[Skeleton]

We don't have any archaic samples of an early slav (very early periods) as far as I am aware. If I had to guess I would say the East slavs would be closer (a rough guess).

Thanks for this. However, do we know of the genetic origins of West Slavs, Poles in particular?

[Skeleton]

According to Davidski,

“So the fact that these two Medieval Slavs from East Central Europe passed so convincingly for eastern Bell Beakers is a hint of very strong genetic continuity in the region since the Bronze Age.”

[TheMaestro]

Poles

[cass]

There are 4 with autosomal DNA. One from Czech Republic, one from medieval Russia and 2 from Hungary (culturally Avar)

Lets wait for Polish samples then.

[Jana]

Lets wait for Polish samples then.

Poles score highly Slavic compared to these anyway, over 85%, with rest being Germanic and Baltic.

[Skeleton]

Lets wait for Polish samples then.

Do we have any ancient DNA from Poland? I’m part Polish and I’ve sorta been on a witch hunt these past days trying to figure out where Poles come from and I’ve been getting differing results. Do they descend from Slavs or a previous population? Thanks.

[cass]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4206425/

[Skeleton]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4206425/

So if Poles show genetic continuity to the Bronze Age, does that mean they aren’t genetically Slavic or descend from proto-Slavs, just assimilated?

[TheOldNorth]

those east slavs who don't have much uralic, scythian or turkic admixture

[cass]

So if Poles show genetic continuity to the Bronze Age, does that mean they aren’t genetically Slavic or descend from proto-Slavs, just assimilated?

There were two Slavic cultures Przeworsk (W) and Zarubintsy (E). Both are predated by Proto Slavic Pomeranian culture. There are numerous both W.Germanic and Gothic borrowings into Proto-Slavic, i.e., before the breakup of the Slavic linguistic community.

[Skeleton]

There were two Slavic cultures Przeworsk (W) and Zarubintsy (E). Both are predated by Proto Slavic Pomeranian culture. There are numerous both W.Germanic and Gothic borrowings into Proto-Slavic, i.e., before the breakup of the Slavic linguistic community.

Thanks for this. I have a few questions about this, if you don't mind me asking.

1. How de we know it was Proto-Slavic? It definitely goes against the generally accepted theory that Polesia was the homeland of the Slavs and that Slavs expanded into West Slavic areas during the early Medieval Ages.

2. Is there any evidence to suggest they weren't assimilated?

3. Who do Poles cluster with on a PCA?

4. What about other West Slavs (Slovaks, Czechs, Sorbs, Kashubians, etc.) what about them?

[cass]

Thanks for this. I have a few questions about this, if you don't mind me asking.

1. How de we know it was Proto-Slavic? It definitely goes against the generally accepted theory that Polesia was the homeland of the Slavs and that Slavs expanded into West Slavic areas during the early Medieval Ages.

2. Is there any evidence to suggest they weren't assimilated?

3. Who do Poles cluster with on a PCA?

4. What about other West Slavs (Slovaks, Czechs, Sorbs, Kashubians, etc.) what about them?

There are both autochthonic and allochtonic theories on Slavs presence in Poland.
Russian archaeologists f.o. firmly claim it’s the first one as theory of Polesian marches is very dubious.
I would say otherwise IMHO there is no evidence of E.Slavic influx into Poland. And there are many cons.
I do hope it helps for next q.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2008/09/01/european-genes-mirror-european-geography/
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/?page_id=5467

[cass]

The presence of the N3 lineage in Eastern Slavs can be most likely explained by the assimilation of Finno Ugric tribes in the course of Slavic migrations from central Europe to the east. In this case, the frequency of haplogroup N3 in Slavs marks the contribution of Finno-Ugric populations to the present-day gene pool of Slavs.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226735484_Gene_Pool_Structure_of_Eastern_Ukrainian s_as_Inferred_from_the_Y-Chromosome_Haplogroups/link/54c985080cf2807dcc271697/download


Of these, subhaplogroup H1 sequence types, which are defined by different combinations of nucleotides 16192T, 16294T, 16304C, 16311C and 16320T, are found predominantly in common between Russians and German-speaking populations. The data obtained allow us to conclude that the Slavonic migrations in early Middle Ages from their putative homeland in central Europe to the east of Europe were accompanied mostly by the same mtDNA types characteristic for the pre-Slavonic populations of eastern Europe.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11415523/

[Karol Klačansky]

Thanks for this. I have a few questions about this, if you don't mind me asking.

1. How de we know it was Proto-Slavic? It definitely goes against the generally accepted theory that Polesia was the homeland of the Slavs and that Slavs expanded into West Slavic areas during the early Medieval Ages.

2. Is there any evidence to suggest they weren't assimilated?

3. Who do Poles cluster with on a PCA?

4. What about other West Slavs (Slovaks, Czechs, Sorbs, Kashubians, etc.) what about them?

My fellow catholic, there are tons of threads on this site about each of u ok ur questions. Please feel free to browse and get a better understanding of these questions. Feiichy also shared a link earlier in the thread which should answer some of your questions.

[Skeleton]

Do you know where some of the threads are? Thank you.

[Skeleton]

There are both autochthonic and allochtonic theories on Slavs presence in Poland.
Russian archaeologists f.o. firmly claim it’s the first one as theory of Polesian marches is very dubious.
I would say otherwise IMHO there is no evidence of E.Slavic influx into Poland. And there are many cons.
I do hope it helps for next q.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2008/09/01/european-genes-mirror-european-geography/
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/?page_id=5467

Why do you think northern and eastern Poles cluster with Belarusians and Russians, meanwhile western and southern Poles with Slovaks and Ukrainians? Also, why do west Slavs cluster with an early Slav from Bohemia who showed genetic continuity to the Czech Bell Beakers, but not east Slavs? Finally, is there any genetic, archeological, and linguistic evidence to suggest that the Slavic homeland is in Poland around the Iron Age? Isn’t the Slavic languages too mutually intelligible to be that old?
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/two-early-slavs-from-bohemia.html?m=1

[cass]

Why do you think northern and eastern Poles cluster with Belarusians and Russians, meanwhile western and southern Poles with Slovaks and Ukrainians? Also, why do west Slavs cluster with an early Slav from Bohemia who showed genetic continuity to the Czech Bell Beakers, but not east Slavs? Finally, is there any genetic, archeological, and linguistic evidence to suggest that the Slavic homeland is in Poland around the Iron Age? Isn’t the Slavic languages too mutually intelligible to be that old?
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/two-early-slavs-from-bohemia.html?m=1

I have provided few genetic hints and one linguistic. There is massive scientific debate so just start looking for. Late Przeworsk ceramic is indistinguishable from Prague Korchak to bring up one of the arguments.
No. Proto-Balto-Slavic language broke up ca 1500 BC and from linguistic point of view most probably Slavs divided Balts from Germanics.
In order to fully understand migrations between IA and ME we evidently need more DNA samples from this time. Burial ritual (cremation) practised by early Slavs doesn’t really helps IMHO.

[cass]

Radimichians and the Vyatichians sprang from the Lyakhs. There were in fact among the Lyakhs two brothers, one named Radim and other Vyatko. Radim settled on the Sozh', where the people are known as Radimichians, and Vyatko with his family settled on the Oka.

Maybe Primary Chronicle (Tale of Bygone Years) has some value. This is just my speculation.

http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/Ris.-5.16.jpg

[Skeleton]

I have provided few genetic hints and one linguistic. There is massive scientific debate so just start looking for. Late Przeworsk ceramic is indistinguishable from Prague Korchak to bring up one of the arguments.
No. Proto-Balto-Slavic language broke up ca 1500 BC and from linguistic point of view most probably Slavs divided Balts from Germanics.
In order to fully understand migrations between IA and ME we evidently need more DNA samples from this time. Burial ritual (cremation) practised by early Slavs doesn’t really helps IMHO.

Thanks for this. You've been a great help.

[Brutus]

Thanks for this. However, do we know of the genetic origins of West Slavs, Poles in particular?

I can't speak widely regarding this. However, Poles seem to have some extra Germanic admixture compared to other Slavs (South and East) especially considering many Germanic cultures were present in some of the territories of modern-day Poland.. But Europeans, in general, descend from pretty much the same three groups: Early Neolithic Farmers, Hunter-gatherers and the Steppe invaders who are the Indo-European speakers most likely, in different percentages. (Some populations like Hungarians and Finns have some East Asian-shifted admix. as well).

[Skeleton]

I can't speak widely regarding this. However, Poles seem to have some extra Germanic admixture compared to other Slavs (South and East) especially considering many Germanic cultures were present in some of the territories of modern-day Poland.. But Europeans, in general, descend from pretty much the same three groups: Early Neolithic Farmers, Hunter-gatherers and the Steppe invaders who are the Indo-European speakers most likely, in different percentages. (Some populations like Hungarians and Finns have some East Asian-shifted admix. as well).

So could it be that Poles received Germanic admixture when the Goths invaded the area? Where do you think the Slavic homeland was? Also, do you know any tests I can do to see what % Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, etc. I am? Thanks.

[Skeleton]

I can't speak widely regarding this. However, Poles seem to have some extra Germanic admixture compared to other Slavs (South and East) especially considering many Germanic cultures were present in some of the territories of modern-day Poland.. But Europeans, in general, descend from pretty much the same three groups: Early Neolithic Farmers, Hunter-gatherers and the Steppe invaders who are the Indo-European speakers most likely, in different percentages. (Some populations like Hungarians and Finns have some East Asian-shifted admix. as well).

So could it be that Poles received Germanic admixture when the Goths invaded the area? Where do you think the Slavic homeland was? Also, do you know any tests I can do to see what % Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, etc. I am? Thanks.

[Brutus]

So could it be that Poles received Germanic admixture when the Goths invaded the area? Where do you think the Slavic homeland was? Also, do you know any tests I can do to see what % Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, etc. I am? Thanks.

Well non-Slavic people certainly inhabited Poland as well (Western Poland specifically), and Goths (Germanics) were some of the people who lived there. The Slavic homeland is not known with certainty at the moment, but the most likely urheimat range scientists, historians and archaeologists point to is the area from eastern Poland to the Ukrainian steppes. Might have been the area around the Dnieper. However, more ancient DNA and archaeological excavations are needed to derive an accurate conclusion. As for the test, I have seen some of these calculators being used. I think you have to use upload your own DNA tests for that matter. I don't know much nor any names, better ask someone who is more knowledgeable when it comes to autosomal calculators and tests.

[vbnetkhio]

According to Davidski,

“So the fact that these two Medieval Slavs from East Central Europe passed so convincingly for eastern Bell Beakers is a hint of very strong genetic continuity in the region since the Bronze Age.”

Now we have more samples, so we know that in the iron age the Czech population drifted away from those Bell Beakers, and wasn't Slavic-like anymore. So there wasn't a full continuity.

Check how Early Slavs(that Czech sample is one of them) don't overlap with the Czehcia and Germany Iron age samples on this PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/PchiGZD.png

also, the Early Slavs are in between modern West and East Slavs, with Ukrainians and South Poles being closest to the center of the Early Salvic cluster. But this conclusion is based on just 4 samples, it might change in the future with more samples.

[Skeleton]

Now we have more samples, so we know that in the iron age the Czech population drifted away from those Bell Beakers, and wasn't Slavic-like anymore. So there wasn't a full continuity.

Check how Early Slavs(that Czech sample is one of them) don't overlap with the Czehcia and Germany Iron age samples on this PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/PchiGZD.png

also, the Early Slavs are in between modern West and East Slavs, with Ukrainians and South Poles being closest to the center of the Early Salvic cluster. But this conclusion is based on just 4 samples, it might change in the future with more samples.

Bell Beakers were Slavic-like? Also, do you think Slavs were native there?

[SharpFork]

There were two Slavic cultures Przeworsk (W) and Zarubintsy (E). Both are predated by Proto Slavic Pomeranian culture. There are numerous both W.Germanic and Gothic borrowings into Proto-Slavic, i.e., before the breakup of the Slavic linguistic community.
If Przeworsk was Slavic why don't Slavs have much Celtic influence?
And if that's the case where did the East Germanics live prior to 200 CE and how did they reach the Steppe?

Do you believe the Wielbark and Oksywie culture were also Slavic?

[SharpFork]

So could it be that Poles received Germanic admixture when the Goths invaded the area? Where do you think the Slavic homeland was? Also, do you know any tests I can do to see what % Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, etc. I am? Thanks.
It's hard to tell, the Germanic admixture could be anythign from a East Germanic "substratum" or "adstratum" or even be just from medieval times, we can't tell just yet, I don't believe Y-DNA is particularly helpful there, I haven't see any good argument anyway.

[vbnetkhio]

Bell Beakers were Slavic-like?

I suppose Czech Bell Beakers were similar enough, if that early Slav was confused as one of them.
Bell Beakers in general were the closest to modern British and Scandianvians.


Also, do you think Slavs were native there?
I think they weren't. I recommend this article about the Slavic settlement of Central Europe: http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/zvwas/zvwas_2.htm

[Skeleton]

I suppose Czech Bell Beakers were similar enough, if that early Slav was confused as one of them.
Bell Beakers in general were the closest to modern British and Scandianvians.


I think they weren't. I recommend this article about the Slavic settlement of Central Europe: http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/zvwas/zvwas_2.htm

Hmmm... it's all confusing. So are Poles and West Slavs just Slavicized or not? Cause I'm getting differing results.

[SharpFork]

Hmmm... it's all confusing. So are Poles and West Slavs just Slavicized or not? Cause I'm getting differing results.
Depends on what you mean by Slavized, regardless if Slavs were autochtonous to Poland or if they came to the East they are still very close to the original Slavs genetically.

[Skeleton]

Depends on what you mean by Slavized, regardless if Slavs were autochtonous to Poland or if they came to the East they are still very close to the original Slavs genetically.

I mean were West Slavs genetically different, i.e. descending from previous populations, and just became Slavicized through a Slavic elite just imposing their culture, religion, and language?

[SharpFork]

I mean were West Slavs genetically different, i.e. descending from previous populations, and just became Slavicized through a Slavic elite just imposing their culture, religion, and language?
I imagine not because Poles are way too similar to East Slavs to say that the pre-Slavic population maintained large scale continuity, it possible that pre-Slavic Poles were still very Slavic like AND that they were mostly replaced, but this is the first time I heard this particular theory of yours.

[Skeleton]

I imagine not because Poles are way too similar to East Slavs to say that the pre-Slavic population maintained large scale continuity, it possible that pre-Slavic Poles were still very Slavic like AND that they were mostly replaced, but this is the first time I heard this particular theory of yours.

Are they closest to East Slavs? I've heard that they're closer to Slovaks than any other population. The north and east Poles are close to Russians, Belarusians, and eastern Ukrainians, meanwhile west and south Poles are close to Slovaks and western Ukrainians (who are west Slavic, genetically).

[Skeleton]

Maybe Primary Chronicle (Tale of Bygone Years) has some value. This is just my speculation.

http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/Ris.-5.16.jpg

Sorry to bother, but why do West and south Poles cluster with Slovaks and west Ukrainians, not East Slavs?

[Nykyus]

The Slavic ancestral home is Pannonia, modern-day Hungary. The Slavs formed according to one version inside the Roman Empire, according to another version inside the Avar Haganate. The original language was the Baltic language, which was influenced by the Iranian peoples.

[Nykyus]

Przeworsk culture is the culture of the German Vandal people. Bastarnae is a Germanic tribe that later migrated to the territory of modern Romania and Moldova, and half of this tribe migrated to Ukraine, where it formed a Zarubin culture on the site of the destroyed Milograd

[Nykyus]

The Slavs migrated to the territory of Ukraine in the VI-VII century, to the territory of Novgorod in the VIII-IX centuries. The greatest migration coincided in time with the destruction of the Avar Haganate by Charles the Great. Slavization of land near Moscow ended only in the XIII century.
Under pressure from the Slavs, the Finns migrated from Estonia and Novgorod to the south of modern Finland, where the Sami had lived before. This is the VIII-IX centuries.

[Nykyus]

The Slavs of the Obodrites tribe separated from the Avars in the VI century. They were fixed at the border by agreement with the Francs.

Poland became empty after the invasion of the Huns, overgrown with forests and can not be considered the ancestral home of the Slavs. Swamps of Pripyat are not enough to support a large population that will still be migrating

[cass]

Przeworsk culture is the culture of the German Vandal people. Bastarnae is a Germanic tribe that later migrated to the territory of modern Romania and Moldova, and half of this tribe migrated to Ukraine, where it formed a Zarubin culture on the site of the destroyed Milograd
You contradict Sedov.

Основным этносом в пшеворском ареале на всем протяжении развития этой культуры оставалось местное славянское население, особенно в Висленском регионе.

Седов В.В. Славяне в древности https://arheologija.ru/slavyane-v-sostave-naseleniya-pshevorskoy-kulturyi/

[cass]

Poland became empty after the invasion of the Huns, overgrown with forests and can not be considered the ancestral home of the Slavs.


Ancient DNA Reveals Matrilineal Continuity in Present-Day Poland over the Last Two Millennia
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110839

and much longer
Bronze Age DNA Shows Direct Genetic Link to Current Inhabitants of Southern Poland
http://scienceinpoland.pap.pl/en/node/82059

There are already first conclusions from the research of the team from the Biobank Laboratory and the Department of Anthropology. The researchers believe that in the case of the population living in Kujawy there was a surprisingly strong genetic continuity, dating back to the time of the first farmers, 7.5 thousand years ago.
"It seems that we are dealing with an interesting genetic continuation in the population living in Kujawy from the early Middle Ages to the 19th century. The roots of these populations probably reach the Neolithic, perhaps even the Mesolithic" - the scientist suggests.
http://scienceinpoland.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C77351%2C3d-scans-skulls-and-collection-ancient-dna-will-be-available-information-platform-e

[cass]

The Slavic ancestral home is Pannonia, modern-day Hungary. The Slavs formed according to one version inside the Roman Empire, according to another version inside the Avar Haganate.

Proto-Slavs were almost unknown to the Romans until after the Migration Period and lived outside the sphere of influence of the Roman Empire.
Ancient Roman and Greek historical sources refer to the early Slavic peoples (most probably) as Veneti and Spori.

[pulstar]

Proto-Slavs were almost unknown to the Romans until after the Migration Period and lived outside the sphere of influence of the Roman Empire.
Ancient Roman and Greek historical sources refer to the early Slavic peoples (most probably) as Veneti and Spori.

"Spori" means slow, but interestingly they took over their (Byzantinian) European part of empire quite fast :lol:

[cass]

The Slavs of the Obodrites tribe separated from the Avars in the VI century.

Bullshit.
The History of Theophylact Simocatta (14.08.590–13.08.591),
Emperor Maurice on the Danube frontier:

(10) On the following day three men, Sclavenes by race, who were not wearing any iron or military equipment, were captured by the emperor's bodyguards. Lyres were their baggage, and they were not
carrying anything else at all. (11) And so the emperor enquired what was their nation, where was their allotted abode, and the cause of their presence in the Roman lands. (12) They replied that they were
Sclavenes by nation and that they lived at the boundary of the western ocean;10 the Chagan had dispatched ambassadors to their parts to levy a military force and had lavished many gifts on their nation's rulers;11 (13) and so they accepted the gifts but refused him the alliance, asserting that the length of the journey daunted them, while they sent back to the Chagan for the purpose of making a defence these same men who had been captured; they had completed the journey in fifteen months; but the Chagan had forgotten the law of ambassadors and had decreed a ban on their return; (14) since they had heard that the Roman nation was much the most famous, as far as can be told, for wealth and clemency, they had exploited the opportunity and retired to Thrace; (15) they carried lyres since it was not their practice to gird weapons on their bodies, because their country was ignorant of iron and thereby provided them with a peaceful and troublefree life; they made music on lyres because they did not know how to sound forth on trumpets. For they would quite reasonably say that for those who had no knowledge of warfare, musical pursuits were uncultivated,12 as it
were. (16) And so, as a result of their words, the emperor marvelled at their tribe and judged that those same barbarians who had encountered him were worthy of hospitality; in amazement at the size of their bodies and the nobility of their limbs, he sent these men under escort to Heracleia.

https://kupdf.net/queue/the-history-of-theophylact-simocatta_58ca71f2dc0d60d54a33903a_pdf?queue_id=-1&x=1591306758&z=MTk0LjQ5LjEwNS41OQ==

[cass]

Geography of Medieval Slavdom
As a result of the medieval expansion, Slavs settled 1/3 of Europe. The geography of this settlement and its political organization is well known for the Middle and Late Middle Ages. Much less is known about the original homeland of Slavs, as well as the course of their expansion in the early Middle Ages. It is a medium for many concepts, often contradictory to each other. However, the development of individual research disciplines (archeology, linguistics, genetic genealogy), brings new cognitive abilities. Allochtonist and autochthonist concepts do not have to be at all contradictory, but bring complementary knowledge. Placing the seats of the Proto-Slavs in the basins of the Vistula and the Oder, does not necessarily exclude shaping the foundations of Slavic ethnos in its final form in the basins of Pripyat, Boh and Dniester. This new cultural quality could, however, be spread with the participation of the Proto-Slavic population, and an important role in this process could also be played by the secondary migration of some Slavic tribes from the Danube Valley.
Polish Academy of Sciences 2019
http://www.ejournals.eu/PKKS/2019/Vol-XV/art/15246/
pdf in Polish http://www.ejournals.eu/pliki/art/15246/pl

https://i.ibb.co/n8HsG5T/28-54dea11cf8.jpg (https://ibb.co/84WDCSJ)
html url generator (https://pl.imgbb.com/)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

The original language was the Baltic language, which was influenced by the Iranian peoples.

Are you an expert or what? Since nobody considered that Proto-Baltic language ever existed. Here is some article for you;

http://www.suduva.com/virdainas/proto.htm

Things are not simple as you read somewhere.

If your "Baltic" population is called in every modern scientific paper "Balto-Slavic", to put word "Baltic" here is just thing of nomenclature...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Balto-Slavic_lng.png

Here is the original urhemeit of Slavs - Komarov culture. This culture was similar but different from the rest which are characterised typical Baltic.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

You contradict Sedov.

Основным этносом в пшеворском ареале на всем протяжении развития этой культуры оставалось местное славянское население, особенно в Висленском регионе.

Седов В.В. Славяне в древности https://arheologija.ru/slavyane-v-sostave-naseleniya-pshevorskoy-kulturyi/

K O M A R O V culture is the first one independently associated with Slavs! http://www.suduva.com/virdainas/proto.htm

1500-1300 BC.

[Ülev]

Poolakad pole ju muud kui lääne-venelased ja mentaliteetki on sama

[cass]

Poolakad pole ju muud kui lääne-venelased ja mentaliteetki on sama

Thank you for sharing a totally ignorant opinion.

[Skiz-gaaR]

Now we have more samples, so we know that in the iron age the Czech population drifted away from those Bell Beakers, and wasn't Slavic-like anymore. So there wasn't a full continuity.

Check how Early Slavs(that Czech sample is one of them) don't overlap with the Czehcia and Germany Iron age samples on this PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/PchiGZD.png

also, the Early Slavs are in between modern West and East Slavs, with Ukrainians and South Poles being closest to the center of the Early Salvic cluster. But this conclusion is based on just 4 samples, it might change in the future with more samples.

why do Balts plot further west than Finns

[Voskos]

I guess Slovaks, Eastern Poles and Ukrainians are the hotspot of Slavdom

[vbnetkhio]

why do Balts plot further west than Finns

because eurogenes k13 doesn't have a Finnic component, so they get placed a bit randomly.